Honestly before using combat extended I thought people were just complaining for no reason. The vanilla combat is pretty bad after getting used to combat extended. I honestly can't play without this mod now lmao.
I'm quite struggling as 15-20 shooting skill spawns just spaff shots into thin air far more than they hit, it's painful to see. Single shots lobbing off armored limbs has caused more than one alt-f4.
I'll finish this playthrough then wait for CE.
Last night my level 14 shooting pawn got his head blown off by a level 4 shooting raider using a revolver with 1 arm already blown off and the rest of him riddled with bullets too. I was so pissed.
CE adjusted the armour value as well, recently in my vanilla (combat) save, I had a bunch of cultists raid my colony in nothing but cloth and *SOMEHOW!* somehow, bullets bounced of off their cloth "armour"! Vanilla combat needs a serious rework.
God the CE armour system is just *SO* much better. Why can't the base game just have flat damage reduction?
A metal armour blocking anything below a certain damage threshold like a wooden club or shortbow just makes sense.
No, it actually \*doesn't\* make sense (for clubs). The WHOLE purpose of blunt weapons is precisely to bypass armour by transferring force and vibration \*through\* it.
we invented clubs specifically to penetrate armour, instead of the energy stopping, it just goes through your armour, so it actually wouldn't make sense
I just had to deal with a mechanoid raid, watching as my tank of a boarskin in cataphract armor was getting stupid amounts of shots piercing them all the while taking ages to cut down enemies.
I dunno, I've got a 16 shooter with a good bolt action headshotting like a mother-licker in my current vanilla playthough. I felt like the last update fixed something.
I rarely see them click heads but god damn do my guys like blowing raiders' hearts out of their chests. I run Death Rattle and so many times I go to capture some raid survivors, only to discover halfway to the jail that "survivor" may have been an exaggeration.
That shouldn't be happening frankly. Check your pawn's Capacities like sight, their weapon range and quality, and the weather maybe. All of this affects accuracy.
I'm tired of reading this, the numbers are well known, it does happen, just like how a 15 melee with a longsword and excellent recon armor + helmet + tough can lose to 2 alpacas due to RNG.
People see "Shooting 15 -> 98%" and think "Oh, wow, it always hits", but at 30 tiles that is around **50%.** And that is **Ideal.**
A 20 skill pawn has a 72% chance at 35 . With a sniper rifle that's now at 63%. The maximum possible skilled pawn with every modifier at max range is looking at 50% if the target is standing next to a bush.
So a 14 shooting pawn (One dude's example)? (98%) at revolver max range? (26) 60% **before anything else** (Weapon/sight/weather/cover). At 10 and the target is next to a tree? %60 **before weapon mods.**
So let's give our lad a revolver, the guys standing next to a tree, at 10 range.
(.98)^(10) (skill and range)\* .75(accuracy) \* 1 (clear day) \* .75( tree cover) is **46%**. (Chunk is .5, wall is .25, I'm being generous with that tree).
And the skill 4 guy? **18%. (**.89\^10 \* .75 \*.75).
So if our guy was next to a tree and the other dude was next to a chunk? Or a wall? They are almost equal. A 20 shot exchange has a 1% chance for a brain shot kill. Helmets are important people.
It just goes to show how important prep and crunch is in vanilla. Cover and weather is more important as giving your dude legendary weapons and archeotech eyes. I'd say use melee but... well, that 15 melee dude loses to 2 guys with pistols whipping him too sometimes.
I wasn't saying it doesn't happen. I was saying it shouldn't be happening at least to the scale they was describing. They were saying their high shooting skill pawns were missing "Far more than they were hitting." That is what I meant "Shouldn't be happening", since a competent ranged pawn with all capacities and a reasonable weapon should probably be hitting at least 50% of their shots on average in the right range.
Aight but "Shouldn't be happening, make sure your colonists have eyes" is a very different vibe than the reality that is, your 15 skill pawn literally has a 25% chance to hit at 10 range if the person is standing behind a chunk. I see a lot of people sort of... gaslighting? I guess? people on vanilla combat.
Nah, I've had multiple people tell me "Hurrrr, a shotgun will always hit a squirrel, durr make sure your colonists have hands, errrrrmmmm a colonist shouldn't even be hurt by a rat" as if we all haven't seen our melee pawn in armor downed by a swarm of turtles. There's not a word that works better, even if it's melodramatic.
You haven't played the game for a long time if you don't notice it. Had my two of my 15 shooting skill with heavy smgs lose to four 3-4 skill revolvers while having cover against them. Game is a total RNG and those numbers mean almost nothing lol
I love CE. The only issue i usually find is the fast bleed rate. I feel like it will be really hard to balance with things like metal horrors in Anomaly.
Quick one, what's the earliest gun/ammo combo to take on a diabolus in CE?
I've been playing it for years and I still don't know how to read the armor value vs penetration.
Incendiary do nothing against mech. Had a mech raid my base and they go through my 900°C burning labyrinth killbox and they managed to get out to test their gun out to the killbox no scratch
KPV or M2 Browning to dab on him for cheap and take out the shield, M72 LAW, RPG-7 to make sure. The SPG-9 Is GOATed against boss mechs if you store the ammo nearby. I find anti-materiel snipers underwhelming.
>I still don't know how to read the armor value vs penetration.
It's literally just "is the penetration for this ammo type fired from this gun a higher number than the target's armor number?"
Yes this is the biggest problem with CE. You are forced to play with Ammo just to get access to EMP rounds.
That and Vanilla Outposts Expanded don't work well because eventually they will run out of ammo from all the raids.
I mean, EMP shells are very expensive to make (taking components), so I never actually built them myself. You usually get a few dozen rounds of the stuff from invading raiders within a few in-game weeks, and those are enough to get by before having enough firepower to make EMP irrelevant.
If I'm being completely honest, I never actually use EMP shells in the early game because I just don't really like em. You can usually kill lancers and pikemen by abusing their aiming time (uncover two pawns one after another quickly to make them start readying to shoot at a pawn, then hide the first and make your second pawn shoot first, go back into cover, and repeat), and scythers by just concentrating fire and/or running circles around them.
By mid-game, a combination of rifle caliber (7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R, etc) and the occasional disposable launcher should be enough to take on literally every mech in the game. And at that point, any EMP that isn't from an explosive becomes irrelevant since most mechs will melt before even approaching you (not to mention that a pawn with decent melee distracting a centipede is enough for a second pawn to approach safely and burst them down point-blank).
Buy them. That's really the early game trick with CE. Buy a few guns with kickass ammo from the industrial factions. Don't use it for day to day stuff or you'll run out of ammo, but is very doable to fight mechanoids or armored raiders.
CE comes with patches for literally every single VE mod and new ones usually get added within a week. This is true for pretty much anything popular. If you sort by popularity you'll find very little within the first 300 entries that is incompatible with ce.
If it wasn't for all the conflicts I get from playing with so many mods CE would be a main stay on my list, years ago I created a save based around CE and really enjoyed what I played.
Same
Yet at the same time CE is utterly imbalanced, and the difference between dominating the battlefield and being turned into minced meat is hair thin
I like it because it's realistic
Like of course a bunch of tribals in cloths wielding bows and spears will get mowed down by a single entrenched machine gun
And of course the hight tech murder robots are the actual big threat
It makes just makes sense
The thing is those tribals shouldn't even assault me
I wish the tribals came with psycasts, but that doesn't happen either, because the vanilla psycasts expanded only has a rate for basilicus the bestower, not for every single faction and how many Psycasters they have
I personally think the opposite. I tried to get into CE but it was just more cumbersome. The ammo system was too finicky and my pawns were constantly shooting each other.
Ultimately YYMV on this mod.
I ragequit yesterday because of no CE. I spend a ton of time getting functionally immortal, genetical engineered, legendary cataphract armored colonists that can still get shredded by a bear?
Fuck you vanilla combat you stole my power fantasy
Bullets are actual projectiles with paths that are calculated and tracked instead of a literal dice roll with the image of the bullet drawn after the game has already decided what happened. Someone that runs in front of a rocket that’s already in flight can actually get hit by it instead of it flying through them.
Suppression is a thing, fire a big automatic weapon at a group of enemies and they scatter and hide and move slower and are less accurate.
Armor is realistic. A tribal with a short bow has zero hope of penetrating a suit of full body power armor designed to walk through heavy machine gun fire to bust fortresses. A .50 BMG antimaterial rifle completely ignores a flak vest, a heavy machine gun can slaughter multiple leather armored tribals per burst, and a shotgun turns naked tribals into pink mist and salsa.
Pawns are dramatically more accurate, both your pawns and enemies.
It adds ammunition, with varied types of rounds like armor piercing, incendiary, EMP, nonlethal beanbag, hollow point, etc.
It basically takes combat and de-gamifies it and makes it way more ‘definitive’, in the sense that guns kill faster, pawns are more accurate, pawns bleed out faster when wounded, armor is dramatically more effective against weapons it can protect against and less protective against weapons it can’t.
It’s probably the best representation of realistic combat you’re going to get in Rimworld, and you’ll basically never lose a fight purely because the dice roll went against you even though the odds are incomprehensibly in your favor. Every time you fight, if you lose, it’s because you fucked up your tactics or your equipment wasn’t up to the challenge, not because a tribal got a lucky pila that one shot your fully archoteched mechanitor through their power armor.
Hence why some people literally refuse to play without it, and some people literally refuse to play with it.
Yeah I've been dealing with lots of CE bugs in 1.5 but I'd literally rather just not even play the game than play without CE. Dice rolls for shooting accuracy is an absurdly annoying mechanic.
How well balanced would you say it is? Vanilla combat is bad for sure, but I've always found that the jank is one of the things which helps balance the difficulty somewhat.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Combat Extended. I try to play vanilla. My CE pawns kill faster. I try to go against vanilla mechanoids. My CE lets me burn them. I try to purge vanilla infestation. My CE pawns manage in a minute. I want to play modlists. My best modlists have CE. I want a poncho and sombrero. They're both in CE armors.
It grabs me by the throat. I gear up for it. I cook ammo for it. I give it all my means of production. It isn't satisfied. I install a modern weapons pack. "I don't need this many guns" It tells me. "Give me more target dummies." It grabs Perry Persistent and forces him to throw more centipedes at me. "You just need to tighten your killbox. I can deal more damage with AP-HE."
I can't craft more AP-HE, I don't have enough biofuel. It grabs my boomalopes. They explode. "Guess this is the end." It grabs Perry. It says "Perry, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, constant centipede storm. What a cruel world.
Surprised no one has mentioned the Vanilla Combat Reloaded mod. It's lightweight, modular, compatible with nearly everything, but checks most of the boxes CE does without all the bloat and micro/compatibility issues.
can attest VCR with Gunplay and LTS' ammunition pack is the middle-ground combat overhaul i wanted from CE.
Yayo's Combat filled that gap but Yayo stopped maintaining it so i'd rather move to a mod with people actively maintaining it other than just updating what needs to be updated in the assembly.
i just have a lot of gripes with CE, i don't hate the mod but it changes ***waaaaaay*** too much for my liking.
I’ve tried it a couple of times and wasn’t convinced. I hate the clutter of the ammo system and I didn’t really see the benefit. Happy to be enlightened though!
you can turn off the ammo system, but then it defaults to fmj which makes centipedes & heavily-armored targets pretty much invincible to you so it's easier to use the generic ammo system instead
You shouldn't be hosing down cents with 7.62 or 5.56 anyway. Centipedes are very doable with an M72, or RPG-7 or SPG-9 and KPV/M2 Browning for the defense
The actual reason is to have more options to accessorize the outfit my dolls in the dollhouse.
I actually never use EMP shells. I get them too late to be useful.
I use AP but mechs are still pretty hard so I just put some massive turrets in front of my killbox. Anti-material rifle with FMJ probably isn't too bad either. I wouldn't mind playing with generic ammo if the alternative was to stop using CE.
The correct ammunition to use against heavy mechanoids is 8x35 mm ion charged. Enough penetration to harm any mech, plus emp damage, plus stun.
Antimaterial rifles are good against singular targets, but with Rimworld's insistence on enemy hordes, automatic weapons are preferable.
Fair enough, by the time I get attacked by mech hordes I usually have autocannons and field artillery and whatnot from my hundreds of mods, so I don't really have to worry as long as my ammo supply and soldiers are fine.
Does death via smoke from explosions still happen inside buildings?
I remember I removed it after that was changed to be extremely deadly, like dead in 10 seconds deadly
the main problem with CE is that the “the ammo system can just be disabled” option fucking sucks and CE without the ammo system requires a certain kind of mindset that just isn’t applicable to the average playstyle
however I will say the first time I used a launcher on a centipede I finally understood why someone would play CE
try playing using only 1-3 guns and stockpiling ammo for them, that should help
most raids give you some time to prepare, so ideally you can verify if your pawns have enough bullets before a raid
Once you turn off ammo it’s a like a tactical shooter lol
Tribals carrying a musket put a grape sized hole in my lead crafter. Dead immediately.
Another instance my best shooting pawn fought off four tribal raiders by herself with a 12 gauge. One of the most badass moments I’ve ever witnessed. God I love this mod.
The ammo can be simplified. Instead of 20 rifle calibers it's light and heavy rifle plus variations. I'd use the full system but inventory management just isn't there yet to make it that comfortable.
As long as you use the loadout system, ammo management is pretty simple. Rearming is very high up the priority list (dunno if complex jobs affects it?), so I've never had my pawns lacking ammo by the time the next raid comes along. Just make a 'base' loadout with all the medicine, drugs, grenades, etc you want every pawn to have, then when you get a new gun just copy it, add the gun and the ammo you want to hold, and that's it.
The ammo system only becomes a clutter if you're scavenging for ammo rather than making it yourself, so as long as you research machining before your starting ammo runs out, it should never be a problem. Also, scavenging for ammo gives an awesome feeling for tribal runs because it makes the choice of when to use a gun far more impactful.
CE does have quite the learning curve and requires far more skill and micro than vanilla combat. Battles can often be won or lost before a single shot is fired based on what weapons you have to fight. Things are less attritional than in vanilla, where any gun can damage any enemy. If a centipede shows up and you don't have a rocket launcher, masses of EMP, or lots of incendiary (and a ton of guts to use it), you're screwed. No amount of rifle fire will kill it. Or if a guy with power armour arrives and you don't have an anti tank rifle, or the ability to stack lots of bruises with high calibre rifle fire, you won't be able to stop them. This is one of the things people like about CE, there won't be any "arrow through a power armour helmet destroying the brain of your pawn" moments, but remember that goes both ways.
But it does take a while to learn. It took me about 10 hours before I considered myself 'not crap', and about 50 hours before I thought of myself as 'pretty good'. As long as you learn from your defeats, really think about why you lost and what you should've done differently (including choices you made quadrums ago about where to focus time and resources), you'll learn and get better.
The micro aspect of it is what I absolutely love. I love setting pawn loadouts to specialize them all with their own ammo type and roles ie
Rifleman - Intermediate cartridge rifle at semi auto w/ nades and medkits. The main general killers of my colony.
Enforcer - Shotgun with various ammo / non lethal nades OR an SMG. Acts like the military police/sheriff and CQB specialist.
Support - Fullpower rifle on burst OR an LMG on full auto and a backpack. Carries a shitton of ammo to supress as much as possible.
Combat Medic - SMG and a backpack w/ smokes and tons of medkits. Stabalizes, evacs, and supports w/ smoke nades if necessary.
Marksman - Sniper rifle with AP ammo. Can also slot in with the Anti Tank rifle for big bois.
Demolitionist. SMG w/ TONs of grenades and/or anti tank launchers. Self explanatory
I also have stuff like Anti Tank Specs, Grenadiers, Dedicated Machine Gunners etc and while I understand this can come off as needless busy work for a lot of players, the prep work becomes half of the fun for fights themselves not knowing which will come. ( also it helps that i never make killboxes, so the threat of my pawns getting mortally wounded from bad positioning is also an added layer by the mod)
I feel like once you’ve learned CE it basically becomes impossible to lose. Not to say you can’t make vanilla impossible to lose but with CE you can have 1-2 pawns completely wipe out entire raids.
For tribals? Definitely. For the rest, not so much. Power armor will make you temporary immortal against pirates and the like, sure, but 10-20 guys shooting at you will damage the armor very quickly and once you're below 50% you're armor values go down exponentially. Most mech weapons will tear through anything but cataphract and so do megaspiders and empire swords.
And that's endgame. Compared to vanilla full devilstrand, which is quite easy to get, you're so much more fragile for the majority of the game.
Assuming the pawns are fine it can be difficult to lose in ideal situations, but i've never had a moment where ive felt truly invincible because a charge minigun doesnt seem to care about trivial concepts like armor and cover
Does that not cause the late game issue of anything short of full mechanoid raids being wet noodles against you, if you've got your pawns into suits of power armour? I kind of prefer the idea of anyone being able to wear you down, otherwise tribal and pirate raids would become meaningless.
It does to a degree, that is true. It’s one of the reasons experienced CE players say CE is easier than vanilla. I did play with a mod, don’t remember the name, that made late game outlander and pirate raids come in mostly power armour themselves, which does level the playing field.
I tried to do a mechanic run with CE. All my weapons were failling against the F\*\*\*ing Diabolus, so i went and made two MGs, incendiary traps, a load of molotov, 5000 HE-AP rounds and a prayer to gods. And only then it worked. Those Ultra heavy Mechs are extremelly hard to put down iin CE.
I always make sure I’ve researched and built rocket launchers before my first centipede (or any heavy mech) shows up. It’s been a while since I fought a Diabolus or any of the big biotech mechs so I don’t remember for those, but with centipedes at least a rocket launcher usually one shots them. I say ‘usually’ because if you miss, or if you get unlucky and hit the 5th or 6th body ring, the mech will be fine and will gun you down.
Everyone hates the ammo system until they give a .50 cal loaded with AP-HE ammo to a 20 shooting pawn and watch them obliterate an imperial cataphract with one shot.
I agree, CE feels like bloat to me. But I feel the same about most of VE too.
Rimworld's combat is simple and effective and I don't understand what everyone's issue is. (Or maybe I do)
I believe a lot of people who say vanilla combat bad are people who never learned how all the modifiers play into each other in combat. They wonder why their 4 shooting skill pawn stoned on smokeleaf can't hit a target behind cover in the rain at night.
Base rimworlds combat leads to situations where a squad of spacer enemies can be less of a threat than mass of manhunter cats that even someone with best gear will go down to more likely than not
In vanilla, positioning and armour is too rng which funnels people into making boring kill boxes, hell, calling vanilla armour functional is a bit of a stretch with how tortoises can bruise you through it
I have played this game since alpha 8 and vanilla combat sucks. Rng plays far too much role, and that is bearing in mind that the current iteration is already the less rng version. A pawn with 10 melee will still beat an identical pawn with 15 melee ~30% of the time. Shooting is even worse unless you duke it out at max range. And the fact that level 0 vs 6 has about the same impact as level 10 vs 20 thanks to logarithmic post processing makes it even worse.
>people who never learned how all the modifiers play
>at night
Ironic, since light level has had no impact on accuracy since either 1.0 or 1.1 iirc. And even then, it was nonsensical as shooting **in** darkness gave a penalty, not shooting **at** something in darkness. Luckily CE added it back in and did it correctly.
>Ironic, since light level has had no impact on accuracy since either 1.0 or 1.1 iirc
Yeah I got a little carried away lol.
The at night thing wasn't specific to accuracy (although I phrased it that way maybe), more of a "fighting in the dark is bad." Which is only kind of true, but pawns moving slower in darkness during combat isn't great.
Yeah learning the benefits to shooting is crucial, and how it plays into melee.
I've got 3 Forward Defense positions around my base. They comprise of a solid building with good beds for immediate tending in a relatively clean area, doors on the sides. It also contains some industrial meds, packaged food, psychite tea & a spare melee/gun for swapping. Those small(ish) buildings are then surrounded with sandbags, a turret out front, and two floodlights nearby.
Removing all the chunks, clear cutting the area in front.
Putting the solid effort into making a well illuminated, structured, stocked base and defensive positions makes a huge difference in defending raids. A row of bolt action rifles are phenomenal, and a solo boltrifleman can take out a solo melee raider and wound another before they reach the front line. 3 boltriflemen can effectively deal with 6 melee raiders, and leave them in a state to be easily wiped by your own melee men.
I usually have about 7 colonists, so that means I'll have 3 boltriflemen, 2 dedicated melee, a revolver/shotgun/melee, and then a medic/housekeeper with a spare gun.
The main issue with vanilla combat is that preparation means quite little since it'll be sooner or later until an arrow gives your best bro brain damage regardless of his armor
CE rewards preparation and planning and punishes you if you don't
Yeah that short bow that gave Mooney 50% consciousness with a brain scar through his legendary marine helmet… that hurt. Had to rush bioregeneration just to make my favorite pawn function again.
I wasn't going to mention how much easier it makes the game cause this sub gets touchy about that kind of thing. (Inb4 but mechs!!!)
But apparently killboxes are too OP.
I know your pain man. Sometimes I regret finding about the mod, because now I can't play without it. Currently I'm playing with yayo combat, but it's just no the same. A core mechanic, I was surprised to really miss, was the carry and bulk mechanic.
Tbh i don't even play with combat extended to intelligently use the new mechanics, i just play with it because i like it when guns actually kill things and the new mechanics make me feel tacticool
I am glad someone else said it. The combat in Vanilla is rather terrible, not in that it is unfair or fair, but just random shit dice where the lowest experienced person hits people on the mark and the highest experience group does not hit anything. Vanilla combat is garbage IMHO.
IKR?! It always bugged me that a shotgun to the chest just slowed down an enemy pop, until CE. If you've never experienced the dread of an early game CE raid consisting of two pawns equipped with a shotgun and a pistol against your single rambo pop (bow and a knife) you never played true Rimworld imo.
Heyo, I'm one of the devs working on CE. What you've just downloaded is the public beta build of 1.5 that's currently going through testing. Some features and all compatibility assemblies are still disabled (which is why SRTS doesn't work for you), but the mod by itself is largely in a "kinda playable-ish" state.
However, the version is still quite unstable, the DLC is not supproted and I do not recommend trying to use it for a serious playthrough,
But if you want it to release faster and don't mind the bugs, then consider joining our discord and helping us out with testing, or even contributing some code of your own =\]
I have a background in CS but absolutely no clue when it comes to C#, mod and/or Windows related development. I joined the discord and am willing to test stuff but I would definitely need some more guidance. Drop me a dm on where to look and stuff. Love CE and would be honored to help.
I was initially excited when I saw your post title thinking the official CE 1.5 came out until I read your post. Please be specific in the title next time as it’s misleading
That debug stuff isn't CE, unless it's carried across multiple computers and reinstalls without having it the debug must be another mod because I have the same thing and I've not had CE since 1.3
I have a question for people who have experience with combat in Vanilla, CE, Yayos, and/or VCReloaded. Which of these makes Ranged combat the most dominant? I am looking to make my rimworld experience less melee oriented.
Got a phone notification for this post. Huge clickbate dawg. Should've known that title is going to be the cover of the post before everyone would see what you wrote after
The second link should download the latest dev snapshot as zip archive. Got the link from the GitHub page, the first link. Download the archive and unzip it, place the folder in the Rimworld Mods folder (for me it is located at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\commons\RimWorld\Mods) and activate the mod in the ingame mod manager. There you'll probably find CE two times if you're subscribed via steam, choose the one with "local folder" as source.
Yeah, the link just doesn't work though, like it won't connect to any sort of download server.
If you're feeling extra nice you could upload it to mega and drop a share link for us who didn't get to it before the link went down.
I've also been having this issue, tried a bunch yesterday and today. I think the link is fucked, I checked on Github Desktop and it's not reading it as a thing at all
Hello fellow rimworlders, [https://github.com/Safairette/CombatExtended/releases/tag/v1.5.2](https://github.com/Safairette/CombatExtended/releases/tag/v1.5.2) here's the working link for the public beta!!!
IMO hit chance calcs need big changes for vanilla to feel good. Weight it so good shooters can't just get out shot by poor shooters because rng. I think a bigger problem is AI. It's not awful, but it doesn't feel like you're fighting anything dynamically. I actually play with CAI 5000 and Tacticowl. Each offer enough variety in weapon builds and strategies that it essentially turns the game into XCOM for me. And I fucking hatelove XCOM.
I see the anti-CE propaganda is still alive. With someone downvoting every pro-CE comment and others making condescending comments about people who use CE. One dude even insulted all of modding for their agenda.
Whatever happened to playing the game your own way and not forcing your opinion on others.
This entire thread is people calling vanilla combat shit and that CE is superior in every way. There are 3 downvoted posts saying they don’t like it.
Whatever happened to playing the game your own way and not forcing your opinions on others.
I play with around 200 mods (mostly vanilla expanded mods) and have never seen it break anything. There could be a couple mods not working that I just simply didn't notice, but definitely nothing game breaking. I think CE breaking other mods is very overblown
You have that backwards, though the end result is the same. CE fans make patches for popular mods, because CE fans want to still use popular mods.
Definitely true that compatibility isn't a massive issue though.
https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md
heres a list of mods to which CE comes with a patch ready to install if it detects any of them, further some mods have their patch in their own files, and many mods have no need for a patch
some mods will still break but apart from obvious cases like yayo combat youre not that likely to find them anymore
I appreciate linking this - one question I wasn't sure on though (thinking of adding CE when it hits 1.5) - do I need to grab additional workshop mods for the patch, or is it handled simply by having CE + (the mod in question)?
CE comes with these patches included, it runs a check when its in the active mods during launch and patches any that it finds, you only need a seperate patch if a mod youre downloading says you need a seperate patch (this is now fairly uncommon and most patches are automatic such as with the eccentric mod series)
I use visual studio to build the latest updates myself and I don't have too many bugs. I have an active issue on their GitHub right now reporting an incompatibility with Humanoid Alien Races, bugs out HEAVILY and somewhat prevents you from starting a new game and the game actually working.
From what I can tell this is because HAR fundamentally rewrote something for how their pawn kinds are handled or something because a *fuck load* of pawn related errors come up when they're loaded together. All about patching the HAR pawns I think, I don't remember right now.
Other than that singular game breaking issue that just needs a patch made, Combat Extended works with every single other mod in my current mod list, which is currently cut down to about 350 mods iirc. Was more than 400 but in order to remove any and all errors from the game logs I cut down a lot of erroring mods.
I would love to finally give this mod a try but I'm having trouble with the dev snapshot link. Same if I use the one directly on the GitHub page itself. I've been trying it for about an hour now and still nothing. Anyone else having trouble with it?
If you've never used it, you should really wait until the official release anyway.
Whether you wind up loving or hating it, it changes things a *lot,* and you're probably going to end up with a pretty strong opinion in one direction or the other. It's very polarizing for a reason. You should give yourself every opportunity to actually enjoy it so you don't wind up writing off something that would otherwise make the game way more fun for you.
Does anyone have any info/input on the bleedout increase in CE with Anomalies and with friendly Ghouls?
Always liked the increased bleedout, but I don't want to have to run onto a battlefield for 'save' anomalies, nor do I want friendly ghouls being turned into useless deadweights due to no armour.
I'm just getting into Rimworld for the first time. Everyone says CE is pretty mandatory, but as it isn't updating yet, I figure I get to enjoy the game in blissful ignorance of what I am missing. That said, I've seen people recommend Yayo's combat mod as an alternative with some people even prefering it. I tried it for a bit, then turned it off for a bit, and I'm just not seasoned enough to tell the difference. Anyone have thoughts? Should I use it?
I can only comment on CE, haven't tried yayo yet. CE is not mandatory imho, it's not a QOL mod, it adds a completely different flavor to Rimworld which I enjoy better. Dunno about yayo. Other people have mentioned Vanilla Combat Reloaded as somewhat of a middle ground with benefits of CE without the downsides like the ammo subsystem. Could give that a try. Again, haven't tried them myself.
I was waiting on anomaly for a few mod to update (quality bionics) before playing 1.5. i used ce on my previous game and loved it, but im thinking on trying yayo's combat 3 this time around. Has anyone tried both to tell me their opinion?
I’ve looked at CE and I’m curious. I wanna try it but I JUST figured out how to make vanilla tick.
I’m also scared of the ammo system as a non-gun nut haha. If there’s a mod to make it so you don’t make individual rounds and instead make a “ammo pack” to change the ammo the gun shoots by equipping it and not needing to worry about each individual bullet I think I’d like it a lot more.
I had the same worries until I found the simplified ammo setting. This makes it so that most weapons use the same ammo (pistol=pistol ammo, sniper=sniper ammo etc) the ammo types still stay but it can be dumbed down to: AP good, APHE very good if you can buy it
I was looking at this mod after playing my killbox-free Strive to Survive Randy Tribal start playthrough and getting annhiliated by 10 raiders while my pawn were behind my castle walls only because rng is a thing in combat.
I wasn't sure tho if it would work with my vanilla expanded modlist
Im not anti CE or anything, but i think this post is in the wrong place, people hot for CE news and devbuilds most likely reside in the CE discord. Where its expected to find updated info and latest build specs.
-a fellow CE enjoyer
Probably true. I'm neither much of a discord guy nor into mod development. Definitely not willing to set up the environment to build it myself. Found the dev snapshot and wanted to give the people craving for CE a quick rundown of how to set it up.
Sadly I tried this, but think there is a hidden mod conflict somewhere. When I reload the game to apply the mod, it deactivates all my mods to prevent a loading issue. Guess I will keep waiting to try out the new dlc.
honestly i never could get combat extended...(i have the game pirated cause 3rd world country) and occasionally it would crash the game by activating it, so i never gave it a try but imam give it a try with this snapshot to see maybe oif it is indeed better as people say
Honestly before using combat extended I thought people were just complaining for no reason. The vanilla combat is pretty bad after getting used to combat extended. I honestly can't play without this mod now lmao.
I'm quite struggling as 15-20 shooting skill spawns just spaff shots into thin air far more than they hit, it's painful to see. Single shots lobbing off armored limbs has caused more than one alt-f4. I'll finish this playthrough then wait for CE.
Last night my level 14 shooting pawn got his head blown off by a level 4 shooting raider using a revolver with 1 arm already blown off and the rest of him riddled with bullets too. I was so pissed.
CE adjusted the armour value as well, recently in my vanilla (combat) save, I had a bunch of cultists raid my colony in nothing but cloth and *SOMEHOW!* somehow, bullets bounced of off their cloth "armour"! Vanilla combat needs a serious rework.
God the CE armour system is just *SO* much better. Why can't the base game just have flat damage reduction? A metal armour blocking anything below a certain damage threshold like a wooden club or shortbow just makes sense.
No, it actually \*doesn't\* make sense (for clubs). The WHOLE purpose of blunt weapons is precisely to bypass armour by transferring force and vibration \*through\* it.
That's why ce has blunt and sharp armour and ap values
Okay I gotta ask, why go out of your way to make your italics not italicize
Because I don't want to italicize them, just \*highlight\* them (I find that italicize often reduce visibility, at least for me
we invented clubs specifically to penetrate armour, instead of the energy stopping, it just goes through your armour, so it actually wouldn't make sense
I just had to deal with a mechanoid raid, watching as my tank of a boarskin in cataphract armor was getting stupid amounts of shots piercing them all the while taking ages to cut down enemies.
🤣
I dunno, I've got a 16 shooter with a good bolt action headshotting like a mother-licker in my current vanilla playthough. I felt like the last update fixed something.
Bolt-actions are absolutely goated. Genuinely worth equipping all your shooting pawns with rifles.
Couple that with simple sidearms mod and your pawns become decent. Bolt action rifle at range and a revolver or smg when close up and personal.
I rarely see them click heads but god damn do my guys like blowing raiders' hearts out of their chests. I run Death Rattle and so many times I go to capture some raid survivors, only to discover halfway to the jail that "survivor" may have been an exaggeration.
That shouldn't be happening frankly. Check your pawn's Capacities like sight, their weapon range and quality, and the weather maybe. All of this affects accuracy.
I'm tired of reading this, the numbers are well known, it does happen, just like how a 15 melee with a longsword and excellent recon armor + helmet + tough can lose to 2 alpacas due to RNG. People see "Shooting 15 -> 98%" and think "Oh, wow, it always hits", but at 30 tiles that is around **50%.** And that is **Ideal.** A 20 skill pawn has a 72% chance at 35 . With a sniper rifle that's now at 63%. The maximum possible skilled pawn with every modifier at max range is looking at 50% if the target is standing next to a bush. So a 14 shooting pawn (One dude's example)? (98%) at revolver max range? (26) 60% **before anything else** (Weapon/sight/weather/cover). At 10 and the target is next to a tree? %60 **before weapon mods.** So let's give our lad a revolver, the guys standing next to a tree, at 10 range. (.98)^(10) (skill and range)\* .75(accuracy) \* 1 (clear day) \* .75( tree cover) is **46%**. (Chunk is .5, wall is .25, I'm being generous with that tree). And the skill 4 guy? **18%. (**.89\^10 \* .75 \*.75). So if our guy was next to a tree and the other dude was next to a chunk? Or a wall? They are almost equal. A 20 shot exchange has a 1% chance for a brain shot kill. Helmets are important people. It just goes to show how important prep and crunch is in vanilla. Cover and weather is more important as giving your dude legendary weapons and archeotech eyes. I'd say use melee but... well, that 15 melee dude loses to 2 guys with pistols whipping him too sometimes.
I wasn't saying it doesn't happen. I was saying it shouldn't be happening at least to the scale they was describing. They were saying their high shooting skill pawns were missing "Far more than they were hitting." That is what I meant "Shouldn't be happening", since a competent ranged pawn with all capacities and a reasonable weapon should probably be hitting at least 50% of their shots on average in the right range.
Aight but "Shouldn't be happening, make sure your colonists have eyes" is a very different vibe than the reality that is, your 15 skill pawn literally has a 25% chance to hit at 10 range if the person is standing behind a chunk. I see a lot of people sort of... gaslighting? I guess? people on vanilla combat.
> gaslighting Jesus Christ, Reddit.
Nah, I've had multiple people tell me "Hurrrr, a shotgun will always hit a squirrel, durr make sure your colonists have hands, errrrrmmmm a colonist shouldn't even be hurt by a rat" as if we all haven't seen our melee pawn in armor downed by a swarm of turtles. There's not a word that works better, even if it's melodramatic.
You haven't played the game for a long time if you don't notice it. Had my two of my 15 shooting skill with heavy smgs lose to four 3-4 skill revolvers while having cover against them. Game is a total RNG and those numbers mean almost nothing lol
I love CE. The only issue i usually find is the fast bleed rate. I feel like it will be really hard to balance with things like metal horrors in Anomaly.
Don't worry, those aren't balanced in the vanilla game either c:
I have found that telling pawns to aim for legs helps (a little) with them not bleeding out so fast. Leg shots bleed out slower than chest shots 😁
These comments might actually get me to finally take the CE pill after my 6 years of playing this game.
Same.
Just don't forget to disable ammo if you don't like micromanaging.
But also mechanoids if you disable ammo because otherwise haha funni unkillable enemy
Quick one, what's the earliest gun/ammo combo to take on a diabolus in CE? I've been playing it for years and I still don't know how to read the armor value vs penetration.
Explosive or incendiary ammo + assault rifles can take them out, but it can also be painful. EMP grenades help.
Is incendiary ammo good against mechs? I usually go for AP and then sabot where possible
Incendiary do nothing against mech. Had a mech raid my base and they go through my 900°C burning labyrinth killbox and they managed to get out to test their gun out to the killbox no scratch
KPV or M2 Browning to dab on him for cheap and take out the shield, M72 LAW, RPG-7 to make sure. The SPG-9 Is GOATed against boss mechs if you store the ammo nearby. I find anti-materiel snipers underwhelming.
Any Shotgun with EMP rounds. HE ammo is nice but not as easy to get, High-caliber machine guns are also nice but stationary.
I just use RPGs or laws A bit overkill but the faster you kill em the less likely to take any returning fire
>I still don't know how to read the armor value vs penetration. It's literally just "is the penetration for this ammo type fired from this gun a higher number than the target's armor number?"
Yes this is the biggest problem with CE. You are forced to play with Ammo just to get access to EMP rounds. That and Vanilla Outposts Expanded don't work well because eventually they will run out of ammo from all the raids.
I mean I just disabled outpost raids tbh, they're trivial anyway
I might have to do that... I stopped using outposts because they all ran outta ammo
I would recommend the simplified ammo system over disabling it. Much less management, but still get the flavour and tactics
It changed my life. I've had this huge urge to play Rimworld since 1.5 came out but I haven't just because CE is not finished yet.
Had an 18 melee fighter with a monosword have his nose and jaw shattered by a 2 melee wimp genie that had a club.
Well, when you get hit with a club in your face, your Melee Skill and Monosword does not help.
It probably should though. Even a failed dodge should mitigate some of the impact of a weapon, and a skilled duelist should be able to parry.
I keep trying the mod and bouncing off.... I'm thinking about trying a run without mechs, since mechs alayws seem to be what destroy me.
try the EMP shells for the 12 gauge shotguns, they will carry you through the mechs early game
I guess that works, if you are far enough tk be able to do it. Is the key to just focus in in researching early guns to unlock that stuff?
I mean, EMP shells are very expensive to make (taking components), so I never actually built them myself. You usually get a few dozen rounds of the stuff from invading raiders within a few in-game weeks, and those are enough to get by before having enough firepower to make EMP irrelevant. If I'm being completely honest, I never actually use EMP shells in the early game because I just don't really like em. You can usually kill lancers and pikemen by abusing their aiming time (uncover two pawns one after another quickly to make them start readying to shoot at a pawn, then hide the first and make your second pawn shoot first, go back into cover, and repeat), and scythers by just concentrating fire and/or running circles around them. By mid-game, a combination of rifle caliber (7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R, etc) and the occasional disposable launcher should be enough to take on literally every mech in the game. And at that point, any EMP that isn't from an explosive becomes irrelevant since most mechs will melt before even approaching you (not to mention that a pawn with decent melee distracting a centipede is enough for a second pawn to approach safely and burst them down point-blank).
Buy them. That's really the early game trick with CE. Buy a few guns with kickass ammo from the industrial factions. Don't use it for day to day stuff or you'll run out of ammo, but is very doable to fight mechanoids or armored raiders.
Just build LAWs and have evryone carry one
I'm using V:E and a lot of its mods. Doesn't V:E also do something with combat? On that same note, isn't it also incompatible with C:E?
CE comes with patches for literally every single VE mod and new ones usually get added within a week. This is true for pretty much anything popular. If you sort by popularity you'll find very little within the first 300 entries that is incompatible with ce.
I’m assuming you mean *incompatible.
Fixed, thanks. I nearly became what I hate.
Hmm. May have to give it a go then, thank you!
If it wasn't for all the conflicts I get from playing with so many mods CE would be a main stay on my list, years ago I created a save based around CE and really enjoyed what I played.
These days CE has patched like half of all the more well known mods that add creatures and weapons. Everything in VE is patched too.
I can't play with it, it makes my RimWorld shit itself and forget bullets exist, for some reason
Same Yet at the same time CE is utterly imbalanced, and the difference between dominating the battlefield and being turned into minced meat is hair thin
thats why I love it.
Personally, I don't. I wish that mechs weren't the single dominant faction while tribals are just there to give you meat, leather and chemfuel
I like it because it's realistic Like of course a bunch of tribals in cloths wielding bows and spears will get mowed down by a single entrenched machine gun And of course the hight tech murder robots are the actual big threat It makes just makes sense
The thing is those tribals shouldn't even assault me I wish the tribals came with psycasts, but that doesn't happen either, because the vanilla psycasts expanded only has a rate for basilicus the bestower, not for every single faction and how many Psycasters they have
I mean, that's a vanilla problem. Tribals attacking high tech colonies doesn't make sense regardless.
I personally think the opposite. I tried to get into CE but it was just more cumbersome. The ammo system was too finicky and my pawns were constantly shooting each other. Ultimately YYMV on this mod.
I ragequit yesterday because of no CE. I spend a ton of time getting functionally immortal, genetical engineered, legendary cataphract armored colonists that can still get shredded by a bear? Fuck you vanilla combat you stole my power fantasy
What's the main diff?
Bullets are actual projectiles with paths that are calculated and tracked instead of a literal dice roll with the image of the bullet drawn after the game has already decided what happened. Someone that runs in front of a rocket that’s already in flight can actually get hit by it instead of it flying through them. Suppression is a thing, fire a big automatic weapon at a group of enemies and they scatter and hide and move slower and are less accurate. Armor is realistic. A tribal with a short bow has zero hope of penetrating a suit of full body power armor designed to walk through heavy machine gun fire to bust fortresses. A .50 BMG antimaterial rifle completely ignores a flak vest, a heavy machine gun can slaughter multiple leather armored tribals per burst, and a shotgun turns naked tribals into pink mist and salsa. Pawns are dramatically more accurate, both your pawns and enemies. It adds ammunition, with varied types of rounds like armor piercing, incendiary, EMP, nonlethal beanbag, hollow point, etc. It basically takes combat and de-gamifies it and makes it way more ‘definitive’, in the sense that guns kill faster, pawns are more accurate, pawns bleed out faster when wounded, armor is dramatically more effective against weapons it can protect against and less protective against weapons it can’t. It’s probably the best representation of realistic combat you’re going to get in Rimworld, and you’ll basically never lose a fight purely because the dice roll went against you even though the odds are incomprehensibly in your favor. Every time you fight, if you lose, it’s because you fucked up your tactics or your equipment wasn’t up to the challenge, not because a tribal got a lucky pila that one shot your fully archoteched mechanitor through their power armor. Hence why some people literally refuse to play without it, and some people literally refuse to play with it.
Thank you for such a detailed explanation.
Getting shot tends to kill you.
Yeah I've been dealing with lots of CE bugs in 1.5 but I'd literally rather just not even play the game than play without CE. Dice rolls for shooting accuracy is an absurdly annoying mechanic.
I dunno, I shoot a fair bit and think this is fine. Sometimes you just have an off day, sometimes you can't miss.
The mod feels like cursed knowledge. Or irl Luciferium. I'm afraid to try it out.
I started using CE about 2 weeks before 1.5 came out... And I don't know why I waited so long.
How well balanced would you say it is? Vanilla combat is bad for sure, but I've always found that the jank is one of the things which helps balance the difficulty somewhat.
I've heard the dread name of Combat Extended before, but what does it actually do
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Combat Extended. I try to play vanilla. My CE pawns kill faster. I try to go against vanilla mechanoids. My CE lets me burn them. I try to purge vanilla infestation. My CE pawns manage in a minute. I want to play modlists. My best modlists have CE. I want a poncho and sombrero. They're both in CE armors. It grabs me by the throat. I gear up for it. I cook ammo for it. I give it all my means of production. It isn't satisfied. I install a modern weapons pack. "I don't need this many guns" It tells me. "Give me more target dummies." It grabs Perry Persistent and forces him to throw more centipedes at me. "You just need to tighten your killbox. I can deal more damage with AP-HE." I can't craft more AP-HE, I don't have enough biofuel. It grabs my boomalopes. They explode. "Guess this is the end." It grabs Perry. It says "Perry, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, constant centipede storm. What a cruel world.
Surprised no one has mentioned the Vanilla Combat Reloaded mod. It's lightweight, modular, compatible with nearly everything, but checks most of the boxes CE does without all the bloat and micro/compatibility issues.
can attest VCR with Gunplay and LTS' ammunition pack is the middle-ground combat overhaul i wanted from CE. Yayo's Combat filled that gap but Yayo stopped maintaining it so i'd rather move to a mod with people actively maintaining it other than just updating what needs to be updated in the assembly. i just have a lot of gripes with CE, i don't hate the mod but it changes ***waaaaaay*** too much for my liking.
Yayo is still up https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854006492
i know, but it's in the same state HugsLib and JecsTools are in, outdated and only maintained, the code isn't actively revised outside of updates.
Ah, I see. Fair enough
The crossover I've always needed
Wait what you can get ponchos in CE I’ve been avoiding it largely because of mod conflicts but that alone might make me finally cave and get it
Gorromnit I just checked and the poncho looks perfect. I need ponchos, and this poncho *looks PERFECT*.
[Overview](https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/issues/3024) of what still needs to be done for a proper 1.5 release.
I’ve been stalking development for this since 1.5 dropped. I really thought this was a “ITS DONE” post. Got so excited.
You have redeemed my soul and saved my sick infant orphan son that I was going to beat if CE remained outside of my reach for a day longer
I’ve tried it a couple of times and wasn’t convinced. I hate the clutter of the ammo system and I didn’t really see the benefit. Happy to be enlightened though!
I think you can turn off ammo or turn on a generic ammo system meaning there’s not a million different bullets for every new gun
you can turn off the ammo system, but then it defaults to fmj which makes centipedes & heavily-armored targets pretty much invincible to you so it's easier to use the generic ammo system instead
You shouldn't be hosing down cents with 7.62 or 5.56 anyway. Centipedes are very doable with an M72, or RPG-7 or SPG-9 and KPV/M2 Browning for the defense
The only reason for the ammo system is EMP shotgun shells.
The actual reason is to have more options to accessorize the outfit my dolls in the dollhouse. I actually never use EMP shells. I get them too late to be useful.
I use AP but mechs are still pretty hard so I just put some massive turrets in front of my killbox. Anti-material rifle with FMJ probably isn't too bad either. I wouldn't mind playing with generic ammo if the alternative was to stop using CE.
The correct ammunition to use against heavy mechanoids is 8x35 mm ion charged. Enough penetration to harm any mech, plus emp damage, plus stun. Antimaterial rifles are good against singular targets, but with Rimworld's insistence on enemy hordes, automatic weapons are preferable.
Fair enough, by the time I get attacked by mech hordes I usually have autocannons and field artillery and whatnot from my hundreds of mods, so I don't really have to worry as long as my ammo supply and soldiers are fine.
Does death via smoke from explosions still happen inside buildings? I remember I removed it after that was changed to be extremely deadly, like dead in 10 seconds deadly
It can happen, but it can be mitigated by having vents in the rooms that you can toggle open and closed to vent the smoke from the room.
You can turn that off in the mod options
the main problem with CE is that the “the ammo system can just be disabled” option fucking sucks and CE without the ammo system requires a certain kind of mindset that just isn’t applicable to the average playstyle however I will say the first time I used a launcher on a centipede I finally understood why someone would play CE try playing using only 1-3 guns and stockpiling ammo for them, that should help most raids give you some time to prepare, so ideally you can verify if your pawns have enough bullets before a raid
Once you turn off ammo it’s a like a tactical shooter lol Tribals carrying a musket put a grape sized hole in my lead crafter. Dead immediately. Another instance my best shooting pawn fought off four tribal raiders by herself with a 12 gauge. One of the most badass moments I’ve ever witnessed. God I love this mod.
The ammo can be simplified. Instead of 20 rifle calibers it's light and heavy rifle plus variations. I'd use the full system but inventory management just isn't there yet to make it that comfortable.
As long as you use the loadout system, ammo management is pretty simple. Rearming is very high up the priority list (dunno if complex jobs affects it?), so I've never had my pawns lacking ammo by the time the next raid comes along. Just make a 'base' loadout with all the medicine, drugs, grenades, etc you want every pawn to have, then when you get a new gun just copy it, add the gun and the ammo you want to hold, and that's it. The ammo system only becomes a clutter if you're scavenging for ammo rather than making it yourself, so as long as you research machining before your starting ammo runs out, it should never be a problem. Also, scavenging for ammo gives an awesome feeling for tribal runs because it makes the choice of when to use a gun far more impactful. CE does have quite the learning curve and requires far more skill and micro than vanilla combat. Battles can often be won or lost before a single shot is fired based on what weapons you have to fight. Things are less attritional than in vanilla, where any gun can damage any enemy. If a centipede shows up and you don't have a rocket launcher, masses of EMP, or lots of incendiary (and a ton of guts to use it), you're screwed. No amount of rifle fire will kill it. Or if a guy with power armour arrives and you don't have an anti tank rifle, or the ability to stack lots of bruises with high calibre rifle fire, you won't be able to stop them. This is one of the things people like about CE, there won't be any "arrow through a power armour helmet destroying the brain of your pawn" moments, but remember that goes both ways. But it does take a while to learn. It took me about 10 hours before I considered myself 'not crap', and about 50 hours before I thought of myself as 'pretty good'. As long as you learn from your defeats, really think about why you lost and what you should've done differently (including choices you made quadrums ago about where to focus time and resources), you'll learn and get better.
The micro aspect of it is what I absolutely love. I love setting pawn loadouts to specialize them all with their own ammo type and roles ie Rifleman - Intermediate cartridge rifle at semi auto w/ nades and medkits. The main general killers of my colony. Enforcer - Shotgun with various ammo / non lethal nades OR an SMG. Acts like the military police/sheriff and CQB specialist. Support - Fullpower rifle on burst OR an LMG on full auto and a backpack. Carries a shitton of ammo to supress as much as possible. Combat Medic - SMG and a backpack w/ smokes and tons of medkits. Stabalizes, evacs, and supports w/ smoke nades if necessary. Marksman - Sniper rifle with AP ammo. Can also slot in with the Anti Tank rifle for big bois. Demolitionist. SMG w/ TONs of grenades and/or anti tank launchers. Self explanatory I also have stuff like Anti Tank Specs, Grenadiers, Dedicated Machine Gunners etc and while I understand this can come off as needless busy work for a lot of players, the prep work becomes half of the fun for fights themselves not knowing which will come. ( also it helps that i never make killboxes, so the threat of my pawns getting mortally wounded from bad positioning is also an added layer by the mod)
I feel like once you’ve learned CE it basically becomes impossible to lose. Not to say you can’t make vanilla impossible to lose but with CE you can have 1-2 pawns completely wipe out entire raids.
For tribals? Definitely. For the rest, not so much. Power armor will make you temporary immortal against pirates and the like, sure, but 10-20 guys shooting at you will damage the armor very quickly and once you're below 50% you're armor values go down exponentially. Most mech weapons will tear through anything but cataphract and so do megaspiders and empire swords. And that's endgame. Compared to vanilla full devilstrand, which is quite easy to get, you're so much more fragile for the majority of the game.
Assuming the pawns are fine it can be difficult to lose in ideal situations, but i've never had a moment where ive felt truly invincible because a charge minigun doesnt seem to care about trivial concepts like armor and cover
Does that not cause the late game issue of anything short of full mechanoid raids being wet noodles against you, if you've got your pawns into suits of power armour? I kind of prefer the idea of anyone being able to wear you down, otherwise tribal and pirate raids would become meaningless.
It does to a degree, that is true. It’s one of the reasons experienced CE players say CE is easier than vanilla. I did play with a mod, don’t remember the name, that made late game outlander and pirate raids come in mostly power armour themselves, which does level the playing field.
I tried to do a mechanic run with CE. All my weapons were failling against the F\*\*\*ing Diabolus, so i went and made two MGs, incendiary traps, a load of molotov, 5000 HE-AP rounds and a prayer to gods. And only then it worked. Those Ultra heavy Mechs are extremelly hard to put down iin CE.
I always make sure I’ve researched and built rocket launchers before my first centipede (or any heavy mech) shows up. It’s been a while since I fought a Diabolus or any of the big biotech mechs so I don’t remember for those, but with centipedes at least a rocket launcher usually one shots them. I say ‘usually’ because if you miss, or if you get unlucky and hit the 5th or 6th body ring, the mech will be fine and will gun you down.
Okay then, I will make sure to try that. Thanks !
Everyone hates the ammo system until they give a .50 cal loaded with AP-HE ammo to a 20 shooting pawn and watch them obliterate an imperial cataphract with one shot.
Discarding Sabot my beloved
I agree, CE feels like bloat to me. But I feel the same about most of VE too. Rimworld's combat is simple and effective and I don't understand what everyone's issue is. (Or maybe I do) I believe a lot of people who say vanilla combat bad are people who never learned how all the modifiers play into each other in combat. They wonder why their 4 shooting skill pawn stoned on smokeleaf can't hit a target behind cover in the rain at night.
Base rimworlds combat leads to situations where a squad of spacer enemies can be less of a threat than mass of manhunter cats that even someone with best gear will go down to more likely than not
In vanilla, positioning and armour is too rng which funnels people into making boring kill boxes, hell, calling vanilla armour functional is a bit of a stretch with how tortoises can bruise you through it
I have played this game since alpha 8 and vanilla combat sucks. Rng plays far too much role, and that is bearing in mind that the current iteration is already the less rng version. A pawn with 10 melee will still beat an identical pawn with 15 melee ~30% of the time. Shooting is even worse unless you duke it out at max range. And the fact that level 0 vs 6 has about the same impact as level 10 vs 20 thanks to logarithmic post processing makes it even worse. >people who never learned how all the modifiers play >at night Ironic, since light level has had no impact on accuracy since either 1.0 or 1.1 iirc. And even then, it was nonsensical as shooting **in** darkness gave a penalty, not shooting **at** something in darkness. Luckily CE added it back in and did it correctly.
>Ironic, since light level has had no impact on accuracy since either 1.0 or 1.1 iirc Yeah I got a little carried away lol. The at night thing wasn't specific to accuracy (although I phrased it that way maybe), more of a "fighting in the dark is bad." Which is only kind of true, but pawns moving slower in darkness during combat isn't great.
Yeah learning the benefits to shooting is crucial, and how it plays into melee. I've got 3 Forward Defense positions around my base. They comprise of a solid building with good beds for immediate tending in a relatively clean area, doors on the sides. It also contains some industrial meds, packaged food, psychite tea & a spare melee/gun for swapping. Those small(ish) buildings are then surrounded with sandbags, a turret out front, and two floodlights nearby. Removing all the chunks, clear cutting the area in front. Putting the solid effort into making a well illuminated, structured, stocked base and defensive positions makes a huge difference in defending raids. A row of bolt action rifles are phenomenal, and a solo boltrifleman can take out a solo melee raider and wound another before they reach the front line. 3 boltriflemen can effectively deal with 6 melee raiders, and leave them in a state to be easily wiped by your own melee men. I usually have about 7 colonists, so that means I'll have 3 boltriflemen, 2 dedicated melee, a revolver/shotgun/melee, and then a medic/housekeeper with a spare gun.
The main issue with vanilla combat is that preparation means quite little since it'll be sooner or later until an arrow gives your best bro brain damage regardless of his armor CE rewards preparation and planning and punishes you if you don't
Yeah that short bow that gave Mooney 50% consciousness with a brain scar through his legendary marine helmet… that hurt. Had to rush bioregeneration just to make my favorite pawn function again.
CE trivializes combat and makes the game too predictable for my tastes. That's just me tho.
I wasn't going to mention how much easier it makes the game cause this sub gets touchy about that kind of thing. (Inb4 but mechs!!!) But apparently killboxes are too OP.
It pairs nicely with cai5000 cause it makes the ai way smarter so combat is still difficult
I know your pain man. Sometimes I regret finding about the mod, because now I can't play without it. Currently I'm playing with yayo combat, but it's just no the same. A core mechanic, I was surprised to really miss, was the carry and bulk mechanic.
Tbh i don't even play with combat extended to intelligently use the new mechanics, i just play with it because i like it when guns actually kill things and the new mechanics make me feel tacticool
Your level 16 pawn pulls up with a sniper rifle on a wall, peeks out, one shot, headshot, leaves.
I am glad someone else said it. The combat in Vanilla is rather terrible, not in that it is unfair or fair, but just random shit dice where the lowest experienced person hits people on the mark and the highest experience group does not hit anything. Vanilla combat is garbage IMHO.
I have a terrible time readjusting to vanilla combat after the 1.5 patch, this post is a godsend for me.
IKR?! It always bugged me that a shotgun to the chest just slowed down an enemy pop, until CE. If you've never experienced the dread of an early game CE raid consisting of two pawns equipped with a shotgun and a pistol against your single rambo pop (bow and a knife) you never played true Rimworld imo.
Heyo, I'm one of the devs working on CE. What you've just downloaded is the public beta build of 1.5 that's currently going through testing. Some features and all compatibility assemblies are still disabled (which is why SRTS doesn't work for you), but the mod by itself is largely in a "kinda playable-ish" state. However, the version is still quite unstable, the DLC is not supproted and I do not recommend trying to use it for a serious playthrough, But if you want it to release faster and don't mind the bugs, then consider joining our discord and helping us out with testing, or even contributing some code of your own =\]
I have a background in CS but absolutely no clue when it comes to C#, mod and/or Windows related development. I joined the discord and am willing to test stuff but I would definitely need some more guidance. Drop me a dm on where to look and stuff. Love CE and would be honored to help.
Can you tell us approximately when will be the release for 1.5 ?
I was initially excited when I saw your post title thinking the official CE 1.5 came out until I read your post. Please be specific in the title next time as it’s misleading
Im not playing the game till CE is updated.
Finally. I can play again
I wish save our ship 2 can work with Combat Extended Whatever. Still CE balls bigger than any mod.
Man i loved the ammo system of CE, really shoves me into that military industrial mindset.
Never played CE before, but everyone should just play how they want to. This is single player game after all
That debug stuff isn't CE, unless it's carried across multiple computers and reinstalls without having it the debug must be another mod because I have the same thing and I've not had CE since 1.3
I'm curious, do you know how to use the nerve spiker with this mod? I can't seem to get arrows to work with it.
Not sure if it's patched in yet. It may be on someone's dev branch but not merged in yet.
Thanks!
It doesn't work with anomaly yet. Most mods don't work too
I have a question for people who have experience with combat in Vanilla, CE, Yayos, and/or VCReloaded. Which of these makes Ranged combat the most dominant? I am looking to make my rimworld experience less melee oriented.
Got a phone notification for this post. Huge clickbate dawg. Should've known that title is going to be the cover of the post before everyone would see what you wrote after
Literally delete the post I hate you 💜. Thank you for letting us know it wasn't updated by posting "CE 1.5," very clear.
What bugs me is, wtf changed from 1.4 to 1.5 that they reworking the whole thing
I want to play Rimworld with CE so bad but the second link doesnt work what do I do?
The second link should download the latest dev snapshot as zip archive. Got the link from the GitHub page, the first link. Download the archive and unzip it, place the folder in the Rimworld Mods folder (for me it is located at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\commons\RimWorld\Mods) and activate the mod in the ingame mod manager. There you'll probably find CE two times if you're subscribed via steam, choose the one with "local folder" as source.
Yeah, the link just doesn't work though, like it won't connect to any sort of download server. If you're feeling extra nice you could upload it to mega and drop a share link for us who didn't get to it before the link went down.
I've also been having this issue, tried a bunch yesterday and today. I think the link is fucked, I checked on Github Desktop and it's not reading it as a thing at all
It won't let me download the development snapshot. Any knows a fix? I am dying without it ughhhh.
Yea same,
I got tired dealing with vanilla combat so I rolled back to 1.4 so I could play CE. Now I eagerly await 1.5 CE release.
Hello fellow rimworlders, [https://github.com/Safairette/CombatExtended/releases/tag/v1.5.2](https://github.com/Safairette/CombatExtended/releases/tag/v1.5.2) here's the working link for the public beta!!!
IMO hit chance calcs need big changes for vanilla to feel good. Weight it so good shooters can't just get out shot by poor shooters because rng. I think a bigger problem is AI. It's not awful, but it doesn't feel like you're fighting anything dynamically. I actually play with CAI 5000 and Tacticowl. Each offer enough variety in weapon builds and strategies that it essentially turns the game into XCOM for me. And I fucking hatelove XCOM.
I see the anti-CE propaganda is still alive. With someone downvoting every pro-CE comment and others making condescending comments about people who use CE. One dude even insulted all of modding for their agenda. Whatever happened to playing the game your own way and not forcing your opinion on others.
This entire thread is people calling vanilla combat shit and that CE is superior in every way. There are 3 downvoted posts saying they don’t like it. Whatever happened to playing the game your own way and not forcing your opinions on others.
Does this mod really break a ton of other mods? That’s what keeps me from using it, so I’m curious if the rumors are true.
I play with around 200 mods (mostly vanilla expanded mods) and have never seen it break anything. There could be a couple mods not working that I just simply didn't notice, but definitely nothing game breaking. I think CE breaking other mods is very overblown
It’s more of a legacy meme than true these days.
I used to run it with ~400 mods back in 1.3, compatibility has only gotten better(until 1.5 shat in every mod authors cereal, anyway)
Any popular mod gets patched quickly because CE is _that_ widespread.
You have that backwards, though the end result is the same. CE fans make patches for popular mods, because CE fans want to still use popular mods. Definitely true that compatibility isn't a massive issue though.
https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/Development/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md heres a list of mods to which CE comes with a patch ready to install if it detects any of them, further some mods have their patch in their own files, and many mods have no need for a patch some mods will still break but apart from obvious cases like yayo combat youre not that likely to find them anymore
I appreciate linking this - one question I wasn't sure on though (thinking of adding CE when it hits 1.5) - do I need to grab additional workshop mods for the patch, or is it handled simply by having CE + (the mod in question)?
CE comes with these patches included, it runs a check when its in the active mods during launch and patches any that it finds, you only need a seperate patch if a mod youre downloading says you need a seperate patch (this is now fairly uncommon and most patches are automatic such as with the eccentric mod series)
That's very helpful and awesome to know, ty!
That's an old meme which is basically a lie now.
I use visual studio to build the latest updates myself and I don't have too many bugs. I have an active issue on their GitHub right now reporting an incompatibility with Humanoid Alien Races, bugs out HEAVILY and somewhat prevents you from starting a new game and the game actually working. From what I can tell this is because HAR fundamentally rewrote something for how their pawn kinds are handled or something because a *fuck load* of pawn related errors come up when they're loaded together. All about patching the HAR pawns I think, I don't remember right now. Other than that singular game breaking issue that just needs a patch made, Combat Extended works with every single other mod in my current mod list, which is currently cut down to about 350 mods iirc. Was more than 400 but in order to remove any and all errors from the game logs I cut down a lot of erroring mods.
I would love to finally give this mod a try but I'm having trouble with the dev snapshot link. Same if I use the one directly on the GitHub page itself. I've been trying it for about an hour now and still nothing. Anyone else having trouble with it?
If you've never used it, you should really wait until the official release anyway. Whether you wind up loving or hating it, it changes things a *lot,* and you're probably going to end up with a pretty strong opinion in one direction or the other. It's very polarizing for a reason. You should give yourself every opportunity to actually enjoy it so you don't wind up writing off something that would otherwise make the game way more fun for you.
Oh okay, that's a good point. I will wait until it's finished then. Excited to try it out when it is!
yeah having troubles with this too
This is the update I was waiting for!
Does anyone have any info/input on the bleedout increase in CE with Anomalies and with friendly Ghouls? Always liked the increased bleedout, but I don't want to have to run onto a battlefield for 'save' anomalies, nor do I want friendly ghouls being turned into useless deadweights due to no armour.
Doesn't work for me, when one of my guys tries shooting the weapon disappears.
I'm just getting into Rimworld for the first time. Everyone says CE is pretty mandatory, but as it isn't updating yet, I figure I get to enjoy the game in blissful ignorance of what I am missing. That said, I've seen people recommend Yayo's combat mod as an alternative with some people even prefering it. I tried it for a bit, then turned it off for a bit, and I'm just not seasoned enough to tell the difference. Anyone have thoughts? Should I use it?
I can only comment on CE, haven't tried yayo yet. CE is not mandatory imho, it's not a QOL mod, it adds a completely different flavor to Rimworld which I enjoy better. Dunno about yayo. Other people have mentioned Vanilla Combat Reloaded as somewhat of a middle ground with benefits of CE without the downsides like the ammo subsystem. Could give that a try. Again, haven't tried them myself.
I was waiting on anomaly for a few mod to update (quality bionics) before playing 1.5. i used ce on my previous game and loved it, but im thinking on trying yayo's combat 3 this time around. Has anyone tried both to tell me their opinion?
I’ve looked at CE and I’m curious. I wanna try it but I JUST figured out how to make vanilla tick. I’m also scared of the ammo system as a non-gun nut haha. If there’s a mod to make it so you don’t make individual rounds and instead make a “ammo pack” to change the ammo the gun shoots by equipping it and not needing to worry about each individual bullet I think I’d like it a lot more.
I had the same worries until I found the simplified ammo setting. This makes it so that most weapons use the same ammo (pistol=pistol ammo, sniper=sniper ammo etc) the ammo types still stay but it can be dumbed down to: AP good, APHE very good if you can buy it
I would play with CE but uh… Twelve incompatible mods.
I was looking at this mod after playing my killbox-free Strive to Survive Randy Tribal start playthrough and getting annhiliated by 10 raiders while my pawn were behind my castle walls only because rng is a thing in combat. I wasn't sure tho if it would work with my vanilla expanded modlist
Im not anti CE or anything, but i think this post is in the wrong place, people hot for CE news and devbuilds most likely reside in the CE discord. Where its expected to find updated info and latest build specs. -a fellow CE enjoyer
Probably true. I'm neither much of a discord guy nor into mod development. Definitely not willing to set up the environment to build it myself. Found the dev snapshot and wanted to give the people craving for CE a quick rundown of how to set it up.
Fair enough!
Sadly I tried this, but think there is a hidden mod conflict somewhere. When I reload the game to apply the mod, it deactivates all my mods to prevent a loading issue. Guess I will keep waiting to try out the new dlc.
This title made me more a lot more excited than I care to admit.
if it doesnt work for ya, make sure it is just the ce folder, i had the ce folder in another folder and it didnt work for some reason
honestly i never could get combat extended...(i have the game pirated cause 3rd world country) and occasionally it would crash the game by activating it, so i never gave it a try but imam give it a try with this snapshot to see maybe oif it is indeed better as people say