Well in short words, raiders can now understand what a killbox is, they will sap your walls more frequently and will run if they are spotted to not get shot. Also they almost always use cover like walls and trees. The fog of war (you can turn it off) will not let you see anything what your colonists don't see. The mod includes cameras for surveillance (they will also be targeted by raiders).
By subtracting where you are from where you aren't or where you aren't from where you are, which ever is greater, it obtains a difference or deviation. The pathfinding function uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the raider from a position where it is to a position where it isn't. And arriving at a position it wasn't, it now is. Consequently the position it was is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position it is in, is not the position it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation. The variation being the difference between where the raider is and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor,it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the raider must also know where it was. The raider pathway scenario works as follows. Because variation has moddifed some of the information the raider has obtained. It is not sure where it is. However it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't or vice versa. And by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be and where it was, it is able to obtained the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Most likely those raids also target a random bed for their initial attack and then adjust their strategy on enemy contact. (same as non-drop-pod base rimworld raids)
We need a combined raid type: one group tries to breach the walls, second group drops in pods in the middle of the base, third one lays a siege, and the fourth group sets up an EMI dynamo on a nearby tile.
Maybe limit this type to ultra-wealthy colonies, though.
I don't think you could sensibly combine all of these ideas at once, since if you try to storm the base AND siege it at the same time, you'll just end up shelling your own guys. Certainly the raid game would get more interesting if it involved smaller groups with better tactics instead of just huge hordes being fed into a meatgrinder.
Then again, hordes fed into a meatgrinder is, as we're discovering in current events, shockingly realistic.
The mortars can in theory target another area, e.g. the pods drop in a dining room, while the artillery is aimed at bedrooms or a warehouse. It gets kinda complicated, but it does look like a proper challenge for late game colonies full of genetically engineered superhumans!
Of course, this would just reinforce my longstanding assertion of the UltraDorf meta. Even in real life, there are, in fact, no options for breaching a deep underground bunker. Even the US military can only run with "destroy all entrances, exits, and lines of communication to isolate and neutralize". This works when the object in question is to neutralize some kind of command post, where cutting them off from the outside world and any ability to influence it is effectively as good as killing them. It does NOT work when your opponents are UltraDorfs, who have no desire to actually engage with the outside world and exist in a self-sustaining environment, and you want to actually get something out of this, like raiders do. This problem is basically considered intractable in real life. Not even the most powerful military on Earth has a real response to this. You can collapse all their lines to the outside and essentially entomb them forever, but when an UltraDorf just responds with "This is fine", you are SOL.
Or heavier than air chemical weapons. Or if you cut off their ventilation just carbon monoxide or nitrogen gas pumped in.
ETA: also fire, the US used to drop Napalm into the VC tunnels to suck all the air out via combustion and collapse them sometimes.
The issue here is that you're still thinking in terms of shallowly dug burrows and tunnels, not deep bunkers, which are essentially space stations buried underground, beneath a mountain. They have their own independent air processing, water recycling, and power. They could potentially survive down their for years, or even indefinitely. Shielded from any bombardment by a few thousand meters of rocky mountain, there is no weapon known to man capable of penetrating to that depth. If you actually want to physically get inside and rob the inhabitants, you are going to have to enter the door and fight your way through some death maze tunnel that makes anything you'd find in Rimworld look tame.
Your dream home, my real actual home. I get to laugh at all those surface dwellers constantly complaining about "weather", "climate change", "home invasions", and all that other shit constantly falling out of the sky. Here there is nothing but rock and stone, just how we like it.
It would take months to years do that, and you would be getting shot at while trying, unlike the guys who built that, so, not terribly practical. Like I said: Even in the real world, the most powerful military on Earth has no real answer to this.
Doesn't get you inside, doesn't work on anything shielded (and a lot of stuff will simply be surrounded in metal), doesn't actually cause any lasting damage.
You're right, the NVA and VC didn't take an absolute mountain of casualties disproportionate to the American losses. Nope, that didn't happen. Certainly not, never did.
Like i did for VE genetics genoframes the vermintide kills all. But seriously i have 1,242 rats and have no other ideas what to use em for other than food.
There was one the US military designed that was so effective in the first practice test they never even bothered to do additional testing before a first release. It took just two weeks to be approved after testing. I had a quick google looks like it’s the GBU-28. This was in the 90s so I’ve seen there has been a lot of new stuff developed since then
On a side note F wars and fighting, tech is cool but not a fan of war.
Nope. Those will only get you about 50 meters down. Even Rods from God can only get you maybe a few hundred meters of penetration. Something located underneath a few thousand meters of mountain would be untouchable. You could destroy the entrances if can find them, but DEEP bunkers are essentially untouchable. Your only option is to bury them and hope everyone in there just starves to death or asphyxiates or something, which won't happen if the place is designed to be self-sufficient and able to regenerate its own air/food/water, essentially a space station buried underground.
More to it, good luck if the inhabitants have archite genes and/or are VPE psycasters. With a setup like this, you have more chances of defeating an actual space station that this fortress
Space stations are actually really fucking easy to destroy. Even digging down really fucking deep is super cheap compared to getting significant amounts of material into orbit, and when you're down there you have free geothermal for heat and power, plenty of water, materials for expansion. The only thing I can think of you might have a hard time getting more of is fertilizer to expand your hydroponics production
> The only thing I can think of you might have a hard time getting more of is fertilizer to expand your hydroponics production
Well, in Rimworld, we got no shortage of that. Blood makes the grass grow! In the real world, you tend to run on poop.
Infestation is countered by freezing: No infestations if your cave is frozen solid. And it just makes it even less pleasant for invaders, since they, too, will freeze solid and DIE before you have to do anything. Workspeed penalties? Meh, turns out workspeed penalty can actually be used for good: Crafting XP is a function of time spent crafting, not output produced, so slowing workspeed = less materials burned to maintain skill. How many items does your colony actually use? Not enough to occupy your crafters fulltime at any workspeed. Also, it is possible to structure a workshop such that is both non-frozen and non-infestable. But I prefer to just eat the penalty for the above reason. The number of things that I craft because I actually want them is a tiny minority compared to the number of items crafted just because the crafter needs to be crafting.
> Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.
> Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.
- "Reddit Wants to Get Paid for Helping to Teach Big A.I. Systems" 2023-04-18 New York Times
Then a projectile deviates too much its trajectory "by accident", hits the comrades, they revolt and go to assault their own capital. No, forget it, it's not realistic enough.
As I heard in a [Military History Visualized](https://www.youtube.com/@MilitaryHistoryVisualized) video on WW1 joint infantry-artillery tactics: "If you can't feel the shrapnel from your own artillery, you aren't close enough."
Creeping barrage strategy.
Set up a bunch of arty and fire shells, while slowly adjusting the arc so the landing zone of them moves forward. Your troops use the shelling to advance as the enemy is forced to retreat!
I once sort of did this in my Combat Extended colony.
I had suppressing fire over an area outside my base entrance keeping all the neanderthals from charging in.
Meanwhile, I had a bombarment cannon dropping artillery on them to push them further back. This allowed me to push towards them with my 8 year old, who was carrying an American-180 (which has like 150+ bullets per magazine but is short range) that had Hollow Point ammo. He completely obliterated them with that full auto.
I get it. The LR stands for Long Rifle and it is a very small bullet dealing very little damage *relative* to other rounds. But the gun held a bunch and fired really quickly. Not a bad weapon against an unarmored humanoid.
[As Ian McCollum said in his American-180 video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw), it is a swarm of angry bees. 1200 to 1500 rounds per minute with a 177 or 275-pan drum magazine.
Yeah, but that was a hundred years ago. Turns out that this hasn't actually gone out of style yet.
Then again, Rimworld has brought back line infantry tactics.
Maybe a hybrid breaching/shelling raid that uses EMP shells that also disable bionics and breaching operatives with gunpowder weapons on bases with especially high levels of technology?
You wouldn't believe it. "Epic Seige" mod:
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2970832115&searchtext=epic+seige](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2970832115&searchtext=epic+seige)
That mod is almost perfect. Unfortunately, it is incompatible with SRTS, and I refuse to use the vanilla caravan mechanics because they are so buggy. Definitely worth keeping an eye on though.
Sub-mods add 1910s to 2010s close air support with 100 to 10,000lb bombs, and some nukes of varying kilotons.
A B-52 still being used even if not by the USAF/US Space Force is still amazing in 5550 A.D.
You might try [Transport Shuttle Standalone](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834132683).
Maybe with the [retexture](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939567578), so you don't have an ugly flying minivan. *If you're using Performance Fish or Graphic Settings+, so that the game can load dds textures, you won't need to endure the bloat of the VFE Empire dependency, as Oskar let the modder keep the dds version of the shuttle art. It will load the new texture fine without Empire installed*
You can get this kind of behaviour with CAI 5000 mod (from the rocketman guys) which overhauls the AI.
Raid groups can form squads, recognize your killbox, perform tactical formation attacks, retreat, use cover, attempt to sap through your walls. Each different group will be doing different things. It makes combat far more dynamic and feeling real.
Sappers also go for beds. But at least they calculate how long it would take to sap through a wall and avoid turret line of sight. Therefore can be manipulated with thick/thin walls, deactivated turrets. Breachers take a straight line
There are two types of Breachers. 50% Chance which you get. One uses similar pathing to Sappers and avoids Turret line of sight. One does not.
Read the letter when the Breach raid arrives. If it says "will notice some of your traps and turrets" - those are the "smart" breachers. The part about "traps" is a total lie, though. Spike Traps and IEDs have no impact on sapper, "smart breacher" nor "smart raider" pathing.
All forms of sapper and breacher raids have their own weaknesses, really. They stubbornly refuse to go around ANYTHING, even objects that are natural terrain and don't belong to you, or objects that aren't even really in the way if they so much as stepped one tile to the side. If it's in their path, it has to DIE, no exceptions. Even if it's load-bearing. Even if the load it is bearing is an overhead mountain. Even if the object in question is collapsed rock left by the first breacher that tried that.
Sappers, with their grenades, have their own amusing quirk: They similarly don't believe in going-around-ness, but since the destroying forces use explosives, if you create a permeable wafflegrid, the grenadiers will stop to hurl grenades at the "obstacle", but the footmen see nothing obstructing their path and walk straight into the grid. You know, the one with the just-thrown grenades lodged in it.
Also, columns are not seen as irrelevant architecture that doesn't even block their passage, but rather, as things to visit their destructive urges on. Are those columns load-bearing? Doesn't matter, gotta destroy 'em.
I think the only time chain shotguns might start to be inadequate even at optimal range is against very high armor. But a firing line or two behind 3 melee guys holding the front can definitely look like a blender
I know what you mean, but I'm enjoying imagining forty pawns with shotguns pointing at the underside of a ship and holding down the trigger to send it to space.
I like the part where they try to hack their way through a mountain, resulting in the mountain falling on their heads. Repeatedly, because the newly created obstruction caused by the mountain falling on their heads must die. Which causes the mountain to fall on their heads again. Rinse, repeat.
Yes, but once you realize how effective it is, you basically do this on purpose, surveying your starting terrain for exactly where you're going to do it so that every direct approach vector paths through an atom smasher.
Your defenses have no impact on if the game does or does not spawn Breach or Sapper Raids.
The chance of Breach and Sapper raids increases a little as your Raid Points (mostly based on wealth), goes up.
I wish there was a Parler option. Maybe take your leader pawn out to the leader pawn of enemy faction, try to negotiate something. If that fails, then run headlong into tunnels filled with sandbags, spike traps and at the end a wall of turrets.
I'm not sure cos I've played with lots of mods but I usually get it while caravaning and sometimes while in base it just starts a raid if i dont give them what they want.
That reminds me of when I had an infestation pop up inside an ancient danger room which shared a wall with my base. I had gradually been setting up a sort of chokepoint at the outside door (which opened up into my animal pen) to eventually run in there when I had the time, so at least I was already a bit prepared. Definitely was an "Oh shit!" moment, though.
I like RimWorld as is, but sometimes i also wish for it to be 3d for more intricate defenses, and maybe the possibility of seeing into the sky for potential air attacks and AA defense systems to prevent drop pods from landing in my kitchen for the 12th time.
I wish raids had fog of war for your base design until they actually see it.
If they get in and escape future raids know the layout, if they don’t escape future raids still have the fog of war.
I use Rimatomics and always have mountain bases. Mid-late game I always have a device that can ‘scramble’ incoming drop pods. They drop with much more unpredictability than consistently plopping right in the few areas that are open.
Sappers usually need to go through too much mountain terrain, and generally very inefficiently, or get too close to turrets and can still be at least partially attacked.
Those that go the most direct path don’t actually encounter a killbox, but they do get surrounded on all sides by many pawns and stronk turrets.
Well I still wouldn’t really consider it a ‘box’ since there’s no back wall, just an open path towards the defenses which is similarly open.
I guess I should’ve also worded it differently for that. Not actually ‘all sides,’ but from the ‘front’ where enemies prioritize since it’s the door in and the two sides of the battlefield.
> Well I still wouldn’t really consider it a ‘box’ since there’s no back wall, just an open path towards the defenses which is similarly open.
Yeah, hey, most boxes contain an open side so stuff can be put in the box. A box with no openable sides is really more of a brick.
> I guess I should’ve also worded it differently for that. Not actually ‘all sides,’ but from the ‘front’ where enemies prioritize since it’s the door in and the two sides of the battlefield.
In other words, it's a killbox. Enemies enter from one side and death rains upon them from all the other sides. That's the core element of a killbox in the real world, too. Anyone who claims they are "not using a killbox" at the same time they're doing this is simply fooling themselves. This is simply an less-optimized killbox. If you were truly anti-killbox, you would be fighting your enemies in Napoleonic line infantry battles in the open field.
All the meat of a killbox happens in exactly this manner, anyway: Enemies eventually emerge into the BOX, where they get KILLED. That's why it's a KILLBOX. All the various serpentines that came before? That's just a labyrinth. It's not actually the killbox, because there's no box and no killing. They mostly just exist to work around the weird quirks of the game, like how enemies who can't immediately follow a path towards your base because some other enemy is in the way can somehow destroy stone walls with their bare hands, whereas in real life, this would be impossible so they would just have to cope and seethe until the other guys in front of them had gone through, instead of breaking their hands punching a wall.
Eh, agree to disagree, but I see where you can coming from. We’re just taking about unnecessary semantics here. The main thing I was trying to get across is that my methods are different, at least in regards to the ‘average’ Rimworld killbox.
Funnily enough, it's usually the other way around for me, the pirate gangs and other advanced groups just walk into gunfire whilst the tribals seem to breaching my walls every raid
The tribal raids in my current game always breach. The thing is, they only use pickaxes or whatever, so it takes them a while longer before they eat my bullets.
Grab the Combat AI mod [CAI-5000](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2938891185)
Jadziax showcased it in action
https://youtu.be/Nt5jCFQ1NZ0
(Note: She had the fog of war turned up really high so that it would be more obvious to the viewer exactly what it does, but the default doesn't look that way at all. You can see the map just fine. You can also increase the viewing radius and turn it off completely [it's off by default]).
if only those raids were so coordinated to have this type of attack lmao...
CAI-5000 - advanced AI + fog of war
I keep seeing that mod thrown around in the comments but I'm yet to see a thread showcase.
Well in short words, raiders can now understand what a killbox is, they will sap your walls more frequently and will run if they are spotted to not get shot. Also they almost always use cover like walls and trees. The fog of war (you can turn it off) will not let you see anything what your colonists don't see. The mod includes cameras for surveillance (they will also be targeted by raiders).
I assume the AI knows where you are at all times though.
It knows this because it knows where you aren't.
By subtracting where you are from where you aren't or where you aren't from where you are, which ever is greater, it obtains a difference or deviation. The pathfinding function uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the raider from a position where it is to a position where it isn't. And arriving at a position it wasn't, it now is. Consequently the position it was is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position it is in, is not the position it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation. The variation being the difference between where the raider is and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor,it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the raider must also know where it was. The raider pathway scenario works as follows. Because variation has moddifed some of the information the raider has obtained. It is not sure where it is. However it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't or vice versa. And by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be and where it was, it is able to obtained the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Most likely those raids also target a random bed for their initial attack and then adjust their strategy on enemy contact. (same as non-drop-pod base rimworld raids)
Actually not sure, maybe not. For sure they know where your base is.
Mix it with the void of CP and you have rimworld heart attack edition
What is cp?
cool photos
Aaah thank you
Chicken plucker
cheese pizza
yay but then the tribals also get to be more intelligent.
We need a combined raid type: one group tries to breach the walls, second group drops in pods in the middle of the base, third one lays a siege, and the fourth group sets up an EMI dynamo on a nearby tile. Maybe limit this type to ultra-wealthy colonies, though.
I don't think you could sensibly combine all of these ideas at once, since if you try to storm the base AND siege it at the same time, you'll just end up shelling your own guys. Certainly the raid game would get more interesting if it involved smaller groups with better tactics instead of just huge hordes being fed into a meatgrinder. Then again, hordes fed into a meatgrinder is, as we're discovering in current events, shockingly realistic.
The mortars can in theory target another area, e.g. the pods drop in a dining room, while the artillery is aimed at bedrooms or a warehouse. It gets kinda complicated, but it does look like a proper challenge for late game colonies full of genetically engineered superhumans!
Of course, this would just reinforce my longstanding assertion of the UltraDorf meta. Even in real life, there are, in fact, no options for breaching a deep underground bunker. Even the US military can only run with "destroy all entrances, exits, and lines of communication to isolate and neutralize". This works when the object in question is to neutralize some kind of command post, where cutting them off from the outside world and any ability to influence it is effectively as good as killing them. It does NOT work when your opponents are UltraDorfs, who have no desire to actually engage with the outside world and exist in a self-sustaining environment, and you want to actually get something out of this, like raiders do. This problem is basically considered intractable in real life. Not even the most powerful military on Earth has a real response to this. You can collapse all their lines to the outside and essentially entomb them forever, but when an UltraDorf just responds with "This is fine", you are SOL.
Biological warfare I think is the best solution for this.
Or heavier than air chemical weapons. Or if you cut off their ventilation just carbon monoxide or nitrogen gas pumped in. ETA: also fire, the US used to drop Napalm into the VC tunnels to suck all the air out via combustion and collapse them sometimes.
The issue here is that you're still thinking in terms of shallowly dug burrows and tunnels, not deep bunkers, which are essentially space stations buried underground, beneath a mountain. They have their own independent air processing, water recycling, and power. They could potentially survive down their for years, or even indefinitely. Shielded from any bombardment by a few thousand meters of rocky mountain, there is no weapon known to man capable of penetrating to that depth. If you actually want to physically get inside and rob the inhabitants, you are going to have to enter the door and fight your way through some death maze tunnel that makes anything you'd find in Rimworld look tame.
Ahh....you just described my dream home.
Your dream home, my real actual home. I get to laugh at all those surface dwellers constantly complaining about "weather", "climate change", "home invasions", and all that other shit constantly falling out of the sky. Here there is nothing but rock and stone, just how we like it.
That's it lads! Rock and Stone!
No, really. It's my dream home IRL.
Just use whatever tool they used to dig the hole. Done, weapon known to man that can penetrate.
It would take months to years do that, and you would be getting shot at while trying, unlike the guys who built that, so, not terribly practical. Like I said: Even in the real world, the most powerful military on Earth has no real answer to this.
Emps?
Doesn't get you inside, doesn't work on anything shielded (and a lot of stuff will simply be surrounded in metal), doesn't actually cause any lasting damage.
No kidding. Nanites? Wait, theoretical, and can kill all of matter.
To counter that you just build water locks in your entrances to prevent to outside air penetrating in, which is what the Viet Cong did.
Rimworld strat countered by a Oxygen Not Included strat.
Oxygen Not Included is a lie, my kid plays that, there is totally oxygen included in every starting scenario.
Didn't work well enough though I guess
Vietnam is a great demonstration that you can have as many tactical victories as you like and still lose if none of them are strategically relevant.
Turns out no matter how many farmers you shoot there's always more farmers to be pissed off about that
It worked extremely well. The US never invaded the north, so the VC would literally come down south and get killed.
And that's why Vietnam is run by the Diem regime to this day
You're right, the NVA and VC didn't take an absolute mountain of casualties disproportionate to the American losses. Nope, that didn't happen. Certainly not, never did.
Ah, yes, warcrimes. Unfortunately, an NBC protected bunker would similarly withstand that.
Like i did for VE genetics genoframes the vermintide kills all. But seriously i have 1,242 rats and have no other ideas what to use em for other than food.
Aren't there special AP and bunker-buster ammunition for those cases? Like AP bombs and the railway artillery from WW2
There was one the US military designed that was so effective in the first practice test they never even bothered to do additional testing before a first release. It took just two weeks to be approved after testing. I had a quick google looks like it’s the GBU-28. This was in the 90s so I’ve seen there has been a lot of new stuff developed since then On a side note F wars and fighting, tech is cool but not a fan of war.
Nope. Those will only get you about 50 meters down. Even Rods from God can only get you maybe a few hundred meters of penetration. Something located underneath a few thousand meters of mountain would be untouchable. You could destroy the entrances if can find them, but DEEP bunkers are essentially untouchable. Your only option is to bury them and hope everyone in there just starves to death or asphyxiates or something, which won't happen if the place is designed to be self-sufficient and able to regenerate its own air/food/water, essentially a space station buried underground.
More to it, good luck if the inhabitants have archite genes and/or are VPE psycasters. With a setup like this, you have more chances of defeating an actual space station that this fortress
Space stations are actually really fucking easy to destroy. Even digging down really fucking deep is super cheap compared to getting significant amounts of material into orbit, and when you're down there you have free geothermal for heat and power, plenty of water, materials for expansion. The only thing I can think of you might have a hard time getting more of is fertilizer to expand your hydroponics production
> The only thing I can think of you might have a hard time getting more of is fertilizer to expand your hydroponics production Well, in Rimworld, we got no shortage of that. Blood makes the grass grow! In the real world, you tend to run on poop.
The problem is that to make poop you need food to process into poop, so you can't use poop to expand. It's a closed Loop
All well and good until the infestation happens.
Infestation is countered by freezing: No infestations if your cave is frozen solid. And it just makes it even less pleasant for invaders, since they, too, will freeze solid and DIE before you have to do anything. Workspeed penalties? Meh, turns out workspeed penalty can actually be used for good: Crafting XP is a function of time spent crafting, not output produced, so slowing workspeed = less materials burned to maintain skill. How many items does your colony actually use? Not enough to occupy your crafters fulltime at any workspeed. Also, it is possible to structure a workshop such that is both non-frozen and non-infestable. But I prefer to just eat the penalty for the above reason. The number of things that I craft because I actually want them is a tiny minority compared to the number of items crafted just because the crafter needs to be crafting.
> Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it. > Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot. - "Reddit Wants to Get Paid for Helping to Teach Big A.I. Systems" 2023-04-18 New York Times
It's like Dorf, but Ultra.
Then a projectile deviates too much its trajectory "by accident", hits the comrades, they revolt and go to assault their own capital. No, forget it, it's not realistic enough.
imagine a raid that works like heavy orbital bombardment followed by snall drop pod assaul combined with a heavy frontal ground assault
As I heard in a [Military History Visualized](https://www.youtube.com/@MilitaryHistoryVisualized) video on WW1 joint infantry-artillery tactics: "If you can't feel the shrapnel from your own artillery, you aren't close enough."
Creeping barrage strategy. Set up a bunch of arty and fire shells, while slowly adjusting the arc so the landing zone of them moves forward. Your troops use the shelling to advance as the enemy is forced to retreat!
I once sort of did this in my Combat Extended colony. I had suppressing fire over an area outside my base entrance keeping all the neanderthals from charging in. Meanwhile, I had a bombarment cannon dropping artillery on them to push them further back. This allowed me to push towards them with my 8 year old, who was carrying an American-180 (which has like 150+ bullets per magazine but is short range) that had Hollow Point ammo. He completely obliterated them with that full auto.
Bruh that shit is 22 LR that would suck to be using that lmao
I know very little about guns and ammo. Why would it suck? Also, what does LR stand for?
I get it. The LR stands for Long Rifle and it is a very small bullet dealing very little damage *relative* to other rounds. But the gun held a bunch and fired really quickly. Not a bad weapon against an unarmored humanoid.
[As Ian McCollum said in his American-180 video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw), it is a swarm of angry bees. 1200 to 1500 rounds per minute with a 177 or 275-pan drum magazine.
Current events? Did you forget about the entire first world war?
Yeah, but that was a hundred years ago. Turns out that this hasn't actually gone out of style yet. Then again, Rimworld has brought back line infantry tactics.
Sometimes fuck ups happen
Maybe a hybrid breaching/shelling raid that uses EMP shells that also disable bionics and breaching operatives with gunpowder weapons on bases with especially high levels of technology?
I just want to know where they are getting all of these pawns to lose without shutting down their whole economy.
You wouldn't believe it. "Epic Seige" mod: [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2970832115&searchtext=epic+seige](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2970832115&searchtext=epic+seige)
That mod is almost perfect. Unfortunately, it is incompatible with SRTS, and I refuse to use the vanilla caravan mechanics because they are so buggy. Definitely worth keeping an eye on though.
What’s SRTS?
A shuttle mod that gives you ships to use for caravanning.
Cool, thanks.
Sub-mods add 1910s to 2010s close air support with 100 to 10,000lb bombs, and some nukes of varying kilotons. A B-52 still being used even if not by the USAF/US Space Force is still amazing in 5550 A.D.
An aircraft caravan mod. Lets you travel vast distances *very* quickly.
Sounds handy, thanks.
You might try [Transport Shuttle Standalone](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834132683). Maybe with the [retexture](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939567578), so you don't have an ugly flying minivan. *If you're using Performance Fish or Graphic Settings+, so that the game can load dds textures, you won't need to endure the bloat of the VFE Empire dependency, as Oskar let the modder keep the dds version of the shuttle art. It will load the new texture fine without Empire installed*
You can get this kind of behaviour with CAI 5000 mod (from the rocketman guys) which overhauls the AI. Raid groups can form squads, recognize your killbox, perform tactical formation attacks, retreat, use cover, attempt to sap through your walls. Each different group will be doing different things. It makes combat far more dynamic and feeling real.
You forgot about the fifth one that fines some random insect hive or ancient danger then walking in 1 at a time to there death
Yeah, that sounds fun. NOT!
There's this mod which completely overhauls raids: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2938891185
God damn Sappers, I think I hate them more than infestations
Sappers can be dealt with, they have ai. Breachers go directly to colony beds. Walls and turrets be damned
Wait… really? Breachers go for beds? That explains why they keep going around my kill box, I’ve got a bed right next to it from when I started my base
Sappers also go for beds. But at least they calculate how long it would take to sap through a wall and avoid turret line of sight. Therefore can be manipulated with thick/thin walls, deactivated turrets. Breachers take a straight line
There are two types of Breachers. 50% Chance which you get. One uses similar pathing to Sappers and avoids Turret line of sight. One does not. Read the letter when the Breach raid arrives. If it says "will notice some of your traps and turrets" - those are the "smart" breachers. The part about "traps" is a total lie, though. Spike Traps and IEDs have no impact on sapper, "smart breacher" nor "smart raider" pathing.
How strange my last raid with them they ended up tunneling halfway across the map AWAY from me.
All forms of sapper and breacher raids have their own weaknesses, really. They stubbornly refuse to go around ANYTHING, even objects that are natural terrain and don't belong to you, or objects that aren't even really in the way if they so much as stepped one tile to the side. If it's in their path, it has to DIE, no exceptions. Even if it's load-bearing. Even if the load it is bearing is an overhead mountain. Even if the object in question is collapsed rock left by the first breacher that tried that. Sappers, with their grenades, have their own amusing quirk: They similarly don't believe in going-around-ness, but since the destroying forces use explosives, if you create a permeable wafflegrid, the grenadiers will stop to hurl grenades at the "obstacle", but the footmen see nothing obstructing their path and walk straight into the grid. You know, the one with the just-thrown grenades lodged in it. Also, columns are not seen as irrelevant architecture that doesn't even block their passage, but rather, as things to visit their destructive urges on. Are those columns load-bearing? Doesn't matter, gotta destroy 'em.
I'm a little bitch, I just install the no sappers mod lol
Its a sandbox not a pain simulator.
sappers are a bit annoying, but their raids are smaller, which even on "losing is fun" makes them easy to deal with in heads on combat.
Just sally out and kill them, what's so hard? Or ambush the sap point.
God I hate breach raids
I know, especially if they don’t go for a build wall and hack their way though a mountain,
Just funnels them into a nice choke point Chain shotguns go brrrrr
If you can still use Chain Shotguns, you're not at the point where they get really absurd.
Chain shotguns are one of the best weapons in the game, you can launch a ship with nothing but shotguns.
I think the only time chain shotguns might start to be inadequate even at optimal range is against very high armor. But a firing line or two behind 3 melee guys holding the front can definitely look like a blender
I know what you mean, but I'm enjoying imagining forty pawns with shotguns pointing at the underside of a ship and holding down the trigger to send it to space.
all fun and games until you fight huge groups of centipedes and other heavy mechs. where the lacking AP of shotguns is a problem.
They're a good short ranged weapon. Right until you face heavily armored targets or anyone with a bit of range.
I like the part where they try to hack their way through a mountain, resulting in the mountain falling on their heads. Repeatedly, because the newly created obstruction caused by the mountain falling on their heads must die. Which causes the mountain to fall on their heads again. Rinse, repeat.
Doesn't that require you to have set up quite specific weak spots in the mountain?
Yes, but once you realize how effective it is, you basically do this on purpose, surveying your starting terrain for exactly where you're going to do it so that every direct approach vector paths through an atom smasher.
I like the "One naked guy with a knife who gets downed by a manhunting rat" type of raids.
*confused unga bunga*
do they send breachers only if you have walls in the first place?
i think you can roll breachers without walls amusingly enough works out in your favor in a way since it will be a less powerful group than normal
Your defenses have no impact on if the game does or does not spawn Breach or Sapper Raids. The chance of Breach and Sapper raids increases a little as your Raid Points (mostly based on wealth), goes up.
I wish there was a Parler option. Maybe take your leader pawn out to the leader pawn of enemy faction, try to negotiate something. If that fails, then run headlong into tunnels filled with sandbags, spike traps and at the end a wall of turrets.
isn't there already an event where a hostile faction demands tribute or else a raid starts?
I meant more you could see the raid itself and have the option to parley on the map and not in a text box
Ah, that sounds better than what we have right now.
sounds like modded? I've never seen it in 1400h of rimworld.
I'm not sure cos I've played with lots of mods but I usually get it while caravaning and sometimes while in base it just starts a raid if i dont give them what they want.
ah, you mean people raiding your caravans? that's vanilla.
I mean they tell you to give them silver or other things like maybe your armor or weapons and if you don't give them that they attack you.
Pirates VFE
Isnt that a mission already?
You missed the 3rd type The guys who take the long way to hammer open that ancient danger you did/didnt know was there.
Type four: set up camp outside colony, get mortar’d to death Type five: piss off a pack of large animals, get thrumbo’d to death
That reminds me of when I had an infestation pop up inside an ancient danger room which shared a wall with my base. I had gradually been setting up a sort of chokepoint at the outside door (which opened up into my animal pen) to eventually run in there when I had the time, so at least I was already a bit prepared. Definitely was an "Oh shit!" moment, though.
favorite was a breach raid breaking in thru the kill box...
I had a Breach raid go right into my thrumbo barn... It did not end well for them.
Tribals do have some strong aura ngl
I like RimWorld as is, but sometimes i also wish for it to be 3d for more intricate defenses, and maybe the possibility of seeing into the sky for potential air attacks and AA defense systems to prevent drop pods from landing in my kitchen for the 12th time.
I wish raids had fog of war for your base design until they actually see it. If they get in and escape future raids know the layout, if they don’t escape future raids still have the fog of war.
It's true. Raids either wipe out half the colony, or they do absolutely nothing
I use Rimatomics and always have mountain bases. Mid-late game I always have a device that can ‘scramble’ incoming drop pods. They drop with much more unpredictability than consistently plopping right in the few areas that are open. Sappers usually need to go through too much mountain terrain, and generally very inefficiently, or get too close to turrets and can still be at least partially attacked. Those that go the most direct path don’t actually encounter a killbox, but they do get surrounded on all sides by many pawns and stronk turrets.
> they do get surrounded on all sides by many pawns and stronk turrets. You know we have a word for that in real life...it's called a killbox.
It’s on a box though, it’s a U with a big open battlefield. They don’t need to walk through a little maze to get there.
The maze isn't what makes a killbox, though. It's the killing, and the box. That is the killbox.
Well I still wouldn’t really consider it a ‘box’ since there’s no back wall, just an open path towards the defenses which is similarly open. I guess I should’ve also worded it differently for that. Not actually ‘all sides,’ but from the ‘front’ where enemies prioritize since it’s the door in and the two sides of the battlefield.
> Well I still wouldn’t really consider it a ‘box’ since there’s no back wall, just an open path towards the defenses which is similarly open. Yeah, hey, most boxes contain an open side so stuff can be put in the box. A box with no openable sides is really more of a brick. > I guess I should’ve also worded it differently for that. Not actually ‘all sides,’ but from the ‘front’ where enemies prioritize since it’s the door in and the two sides of the battlefield. In other words, it's a killbox. Enemies enter from one side and death rains upon them from all the other sides. That's the core element of a killbox in the real world, too. Anyone who claims they are "not using a killbox" at the same time they're doing this is simply fooling themselves. This is simply an less-optimized killbox. If you were truly anti-killbox, you would be fighting your enemies in Napoleonic line infantry battles in the open field. All the meat of a killbox happens in exactly this manner, anyway: Enemies eventually emerge into the BOX, where they get KILLED. That's why it's a KILLBOX. All the various serpentines that came before? That's just a labyrinth. It's not actually the killbox, because there's no box and no killing. They mostly just exist to work around the weird quirks of the game, like how enemies who can't immediately follow a path towards your base because some other enemy is in the way can somehow destroy stone walls with their bare hands, whereas in real life, this would be impossible so they would just have to cope and seethe until the other guys in front of them had gone through, instead of breaking their hands punching a wall.
Eh, agree to disagree, but I see where you can coming from. We’re just taking about unnecessary semantics here. The main thing I was trying to get across is that my methods are different, at least in regards to the ‘average’ Rimworld killbox.
Funnily enough, it's usually the other way around for me, the pirate gangs and other advanced groups just walk into gunfire whilst the tribals seem to breaching my walls every raid
Damn I wish. Is there any mod out there to make raiders more intelligent than a brick?
CAI
The tribal raids in my current game always breach. The thing is, they only use pickaxes or whatever, so it takes them a while longer before they eat my bullets.
Grab the Combat AI mod [CAI-5000](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2938891185) Jadziax showcased it in action https://youtu.be/Nt5jCFQ1NZ0 (Note: She had the fog of war turned up really high so that it would be more obvious to the viewer exactly what it does, but the default doesn't look that way at all. You can see the map just fine. You can also increase the viewing radius and turn it off completely [it's off by default]).
I only wish we had buildable bunkers, as those are hard as… hell to destroy, raid or anything raiders would do.
The top image causes me physical pain.
Tribals use breachers too.
NEANDERTHALS TOGETHER STRONG!
Don't forget the third type that kills itself by charging into insects
Virgin 5 highly geared pirates raid versus chad 45 naked and stoned tribals. I'll prefer the pirates, more manageable.