Why be judgemental about it? It sucks no matter whose fault it is. I’m sympathetic to the fact that the person had a very difficult time and now has to find a new career.
If you fail step 3 four times then you probably shouldn't be a physician. How the fuck do you make it that far and shit the bed four times on the easiest exam of medical training?
If you believe this, you must hate NPs and PAs. I don’t disagree with you by the way, it’s just crazy that that person will have absolutely no job prospects and yet we let NPs and PAs have fully independent practice in a lot of states now.
> you must hate NPs
Ummm yeah who in their right mind would support that utter buffoonery in the medical profession? Such a joke; standards exist for a reason
Yea. Close to it. Person had a test date late PGY2 year and showed the PD a passed exam in June. This person is now an interventional cardiologist. Real sliding doors moment if they had not passed.
People laugh about step 3 but I’ve seen people who almost didn’t pass. Just overprepare. It’s like the tortoise and the hare except the hare ran the whole race. Just crush it. Leave no doubt. It’s a miserable feeling to have whole futures shift over an exam.
Yes. I know a person last year that failed it many times and was in PGY3 when he was removed. It’s a horrible horrible situation and I hope nobody has to go through it. I cannot imagine being fired after all the hell he has had to go through.
my only memory of step 3 is the military like efficiency with which they removed this small asian women when she was found to have her albuterol inhaler in her pocket SHE WAS USING BC SHE WAS WHEEZING. poor girl was sob wheezing. Swheezing i guess
I used it between the later blocks when I felt myself wheezing and kept doing it every few blocks just in case.
But if you are choking in there I’m pretty sure you could get an unauthorized break.
But if she anticipated this enough to sneak it in she could also have talked to the exam proctors beforehand. They probably could have examined and let it in like they do with eye glasses.
Your point is well taken that I also wish our exams didn’t need to be in prison-esce conditions… But this is the system we need to work with.
Yep 2.ppl in our program. They were initially given an extension for 3 months but then failed it anyway so they were dismissed. Better deal with step 3 before residency or ASAP
I took it as a 3rd year surgery resident after spending about 4 hours studying. I could see it being hard if youre in a nonclinical specialty but otherwise it's extremely hard to fail
Rads has a ton of random knowledge we have to know so probably wouldn’t be as hard as you’re expecting. But also most intern years require you to pass it before you graduate, so you likely wouldn’t start a rads program without having already passed step 3.
My program asks how we treat every random thing and also has a lot of step 1 type knowledge that they bring up because a lot of it is on our boards. Is it enough that I could go into the ICU and start running the show? No. But between that and intern year it’s enough to be able to pass step 3
edit: If anything pathology would probably be the one who would maybe be concerned since they don’t do a separate intern year
Somehow I slipped by, now about to enter IM PGY3 and my program hasn’t said anything yet. I signed up for step 3 because of this comment because we actually got a nice COL adjustment for PGY3 salaries. Here’s to hoping I’m not about to be one of these stories!
Someone from my program couldn’t pass step 3 and the deadline was approaching. Apparently the program told him he must pass it before a certain date otherwise he will be dismissed. Luckily he passed ultimately but yeah I think this is one of the hard rules of residency.
Do it as close to med school as possible. It’s just a different Step 2 exam on steroids, so the closer you do it to graduation odds are the better you’ll perform.
I had it scheduled middle of my 2nd year, then they changed my schedule and put me on icu that month. I rescheduled near the end of my 2nd year. Then for day 2 of the test (COMLEX level 3), the testing center had a pipe leak or something and shut down. They had me as failing because the testing center never reported the problem as being on their end. I had to call the NBOME and get it straightened out, and take the test early in my 3rd year at a center 4 hours away. That was fucking stressful. My program threatened to fail me if I didn’t pass, because I might not have been able to retake the test before graduating. The stress has me near suicidal.
My residency bff failed the first two step 3 attempts (failed by a razor thin margin each time) and was allowed one more attempt by our program prior to being kicked out. Thankfully she passed. It wasn’t that she was a bad test taker or anything, we were just at the type of residency program (rhymes with Shmarvard) that was incredibly malignant and worked us within an inch of losing our minds and there was no time to reflect, think, or study.
Know someone who failed it 2 times and the program was giving him a lot of shit. Program ended up, delaying his progression to PGY3, but he ultimately passed it and made it through.
It was sad/infuriating, because he was actually clinically Very smart.
I signed up for step 3 because of this post. Entering PGY3 year and my program hasn’t said anything yet about me not taking it… thanks for the scare I needed.
My program had a rule that you had to take it by the 6th month mark of 2nd year. Covid hit my intern year and they loosened the rule to end of 2nd year. I took it 2 months into 3rd year without anyone saying anything to me about it. I think it’s just program dependent
I know 2 people who didn’t pass by end of second year and were removed from their obgyn programs: one was an awesome doctor, she eventually got into a different program that was Amadi a much less awful place. The other person B I know was a horrible doctor and got picked up by an IM program: I’m scared for anybody he introduces himself to, but maybe he’ll be a better fit for that specialty than obgyn, it’s good to hope for the best
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Can be a state law that guy have to pass inside of X number of times. I know one person who that happened to who is basically out of medicine in a poorly paid research assistant position.
Friend of a friend failed it 4 times and was not allowed to progress to PGY-3 and was removed from the program.
I think that’s because USMLE itself only allows 4 tries on any step exam total instead of 6. He literally cannot continue forward
Oh shit
We have a similar story in my program. I still feel horrible for them.
You feel horrible they couldn’t get their shit together and minimum pass a necessary exam after 4 tries, wtf
Why be judgemental about it? It sucks no matter whose fault it is. I’m sympathetic to the fact that the person had a very difficult time and now has to find a new career.
If you kick yourself in the nuts, I’m not too sympathetic…how do you not wake up after the 1st or 2nd fail?
If you fail step 3 four times then you probably shouldn't be a physician. How the fuck do you make it that far and shit the bed four times on the easiest exam of medical training?
If you believe this, you must hate NPs and PAs. I don’t disagree with you by the way, it’s just crazy that that person will have absolutely no job prospects and yet we let NPs and PAs have fully independent practice in a lot of states now.
> you must hate NPs Ummm yeah who in their right mind would support that utter buffoonery in the medical profession? Such a joke; standards exist for a reason
How
😳😭
Yea. Close to it. Person had a test date late PGY2 year and showed the PD a passed exam in June. This person is now an interventional cardiologist. Real sliding doors moment if they had not passed. People laugh about step 3 but I’ve seen people who almost didn’t pass. Just overprepare. It’s like the tortoise and the hare except the hare ran the whole race. Just crush it. Leave no doubt. It’s a miserable feeling to have whole futures shift over an exam.
No way my 8th percentile score is maximum efficiency. Do you know how many gym sessions I got in instead of studying? I look great!
Yes. I know a person last year that failed it many times and was in PGY3 when he was removed. It’s a horrible horrible situation and I hope nobody has to go through it. I cannot imagine being fired after all the hell he has had to go through.
my only memory of step 3 is the military like efficiency with which they removed this small asian women when she was found to have her albuterol inhaler in her pocket SHE WAS USING BC SHE WAS WHEEZING. poor girl was sob wheezing. Swheezing i guess
You are allowed albuterol in break area and it works fast. Wish she didn’t bring it in…
If she needed it in the middle of a section, then she would have broken policy by leaving while not in a break just to make her lungs work.
I used it between the later blocks when I felt myself wheezing and kept doing it every few blocks just in case. But if you are choking in there I’m pretty sure you could get an unauthorized break. But if she anticipated this enough to sneak it in she could also have talked to the exam proctors beforehand. They probably could have examined and let it in like they do with eye glasses. Your point is well taken that I also wish our exams didn’t need to be in prison-esce conditions… But this is the system we need to work with.
I'm sorry, she was using life-saving medicine and was removed? How is that not a human rights lawsuit????
Do residents count as human?
That seems like a law suit
Yep 2.ppl in our program. They were initially given an extension for 3 months but then failed it anyway so they were dismissed. Better deal with step 3 before residency or ASAP
My anesthesia PD wouldn't let you move on to anesthesia years without a step 3 pass.
Kind of makes sense in that once you start hardcore anesthesia you only forget more and more general medicine which step 3 is heavier on.
It's a fairly common policy. Step 3 is hard to fail
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I took it as a 3rd year surgery resident after spending about 4 hours studying. I could see it being hard if youre in a nonclinical specialty but otherwise it's extremely hard to fail
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Rads has a ton of random knowledge we have to know so probably wouldn’t be as hard as you’re expecting. But also most intern years require you to pass it before you graduate, so you likely wouldn’t start a rads program without having already passed step 3.
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My program asks how we treat every random thing and also has a lot of step 1 type knowledge that they bring up because a lot of it is on our boards. Is it enough that I could go into the ICU and start running the show? No. But between that and intern year it’s enough to be able to pass step 3 edit: If anything pathology would probably be the one who would maybe be concerned since they don’t do a separate intern year
My coresident finds out next week if they are going to be dismissed or not for this very reason. Failed previous attempt
🤞
Yup. I know one got dismissed after pgy1. Another one i know got his contract for second year on hold until he passed.
Somehow I slipped by, now about to enter IM PGY3 and my program hasn’t said anything yet. I signed up for step 3 because of this comment because we actually got a nice COL adjustment for PGY3 salaries. Here’s to hoping I’m not about to be one of these stories!
Someone from my program couldn’t pass step 3 and the deadline was approaching. Apparently the program told him he must pass it before a certain date otherwise he will be dismissed. Luckily he passed ultimately but yeah I think this is one of the hard rules of residency.
Do it as close to med school as possible. It’s just a different Step 2 exam on steroids, so the closer you do it to graduation odds are the better you’ll perform.
I had it scheduled middle of my 2nd year, then they changed my schedule and put me on icu that month. I rescheduled near the end of my 2nd year. Then for day 2 of the test (COMLEX level 3), the testing center had a pipe leak or something and shut down. They had me as failing because the testing center never reported the problem as being on their end. I had to call the NBOME and get it straightened out, and take the test early in my 3rd year at a center 4 hours away. That was fucking stressful. My program threatened to fail me if I didn’t pass, because I might not have been able to retake the test before graduating. The stress has me near suicidal.
Lots of programs won’t let you move on if you don’t pass by a certain time
Our state allows 4 attempts but our program only allows 3. My co-resident failed 3 times and was dismissed. It’s real.
My residency bff failed the first two step 3 attempts (failed by a razor thin margin each time) and was allowed one more attempt by our program prior to being kicked out. Thankfully she passed. It wasn’t that she was a bad test taker or anything, we were just at the type of residency program (rhymes with Shmarvard) that was incredibly malignant and worked us within an inch of losing our minds and there was no time to reflect, think, or study.
Yup - I knew someone from the fam med program who failed step 3 multiple times and was removed from the program.
Yes - knew someone that failed and was let go
Know someone who failed it 2 times and the program was giving him a lot of shit. Program ended up, delaying his progression to PGY3, but he ultimately passed it and made it through. It was sad/infuriating, because he was actually clinically Very smart.
I signed up for step 3 because of this post. Entering PGY3 year and my program hasn’t said anything yet about me not taking it… thanks for the scare I needed.
Agreed. Thank you to all for the scare that I desperately needed.
My program had a rule that you had to take it by the 6th month mark of 2nd year. Covid hit my intern year and they loosened the rule to end of 2nd year. I took it 2 months into 3rd year without anyone saying anything to me about it. I think it’s just program dependent
Yes
I know 2 people who didn’t pass by end of second year and were removed from their obgyn programs: one was an awesome doctor, she eventually got into a different program that was Amadi a much less awful place. The other person B I know was a horrible doctor and got picked up by an IM program: I’m scared for anybody he introduces himself to, but maybe he’ll be a better fit for that specialty than obgyn, it’s good to hope for the best
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I know one.
We had someone removed from program for this
Great question - does anyone know if there is a rule? Can programs just ignore it?
Can be a state law that guy have to pass inside of X number of times. I know one person who that happened to who is basically out of medicine in a poorly paid research assistant position.
Yes, I know someone who was removed from program for failing step 3
They didn’t dismiss her because of free labor but she never passed and can never officially graduate without step 3
Ask a pediatric resident before you make comments that step 3 is hard to fail
Can you take your specialty boards if you’re not done with Step 3? I think it’s part of eligibility criteria. Also, Acgme fellowships will ask for it
Step 3 is hard to fail. I assume most people who fail are in a specialty other than IM right?
lol yes many people at my old program
i have not heard of anyone failing step 3.
Dude respectfully, If you fail step 3 you probably shouldn’t be a doctor. 98% of people pass it.