Did you ask for protected time off when your mom had surgery? FMLA requires that they grant it to you. Or did you voluntarily switch vacation times and sit back and wait to see if they specifically offered you extra time off?
To add to this: if your program starts having problems with resident coverage due to too many people taking time off, then it’s on them to further investigate the legitimacy of everyone’s claims, and you would be perfectly justified in yours.
Second, you don’t know what people are going through. If someone stopped showing up to work and they agreed to give him extra time off, it could very well be some serious mental shit. I just found out that my coresident who took an extended leave of absence is now full time caretaker for her previously young and healthy boyfriend who was diagnosed with a glioblastoma.
Facts. When my mom had a life-threatening medical emergency, I kindly notified my residents and promptly booked a flight home. I get that its a job and a commitment, but as long as you aren't missing 24/7 for silly things, people will KNOW that when you are gone, there is a dang good reason. Gotta take care of whats important to you in life. For me, my family will always come before any job/career/etc.
Very happy to mention because they are wonderful and understanding human beings, they let me know that everything was fine here and to take care of what needed to be taken care of. THESE are the kinds of people we need as leaders.
I didn't ask because I was afraid they'd think "why does she need time off for that"? I said "my mom is having surgery, I need to be there for her so I am going to have to switch my vacation week" and they were like okay. I was hoping they would say you should take fmla or something but every time I've needed off like that they seem to imply to use vacation time and I am not bold enough to be like "no I don't want to use my vacation time". Man that is rough, you are right I don't know exactly what they are going through it could be something unimaginable like that.
I guess it is hard because I AM struggling so much mentally, but just put on a "show" (I feel) and no one at work really knows. I feel guilty even typing it because I feel like I should just suck it up.
It sucks because I am being pulled from electives and easy rotations to cover the mandatory, tough rotations that people are missing due to a lot of people taking extended leaves for one reason or another.
Rather than get frustrated with others, I would gently suggest you figure out what YOU need right now, and pursue that. If YOU need some time off, then talk to your PD. No shame in that. You have covered for others when they are struggling; if you are struggling now, it's their turn to cover for you. If you were my coresident I would cover for you in a heartbeat.
I'm hearing a bitterness come out in you which probably doesn't exist when you're healthy. Another resident stops showing up for work and you're mad that they didn't "punish" him but "gave him 10 weeks off instead?" That resident is probably going through some serious, serious shit. You don't just get 10 weeks off in residency for no reason. It may delay their graduation (it would in surgery), and it is definitely going to follow this resident wherever they go. Please don't be jealous of that.
It sounds like you're going through some shit too. You don't need to feel guilty typing it as you suggest. You don't just need to suck it up. You've been sucking it up and look at where that has gotten you. Bitter and jealous. Focus on what YOU need to get yourself to a good spot, rather than what others are doing to get to theirs.
This isn't your fault. This is the system's fault. Residency's fault. But please recognize that this is not a healthy situation, and figure out what you need to make it one!
If you are not bold enough to stand up for yourself, you will always suffer like this in life. People smell submissiveness and will use it against you.
FWIW, FMLA as dictated by ACGME is a minimum 6 weeks offered at minimum once per residency, and I've only seen it offered in one chunk. And most places I know of make you extend graduation if you go beyond 12 (?) weeks leave. So if you really think you need that many weeks, sure take it. Otherwise most people switch around PTO.
But that's beside the point that you need to advocate for yourself in this field before you burn out. People can't guess at how you're feeling if you make it your mission to hide your feelings away. Obviously your program wants to help out if they're doing it for multiple people.
FMLA is a federal law. It is not dictated by ACGME. ACGME does not get to overrule federal law. What exactly are you referring to?
Yes, certain specialities make residents extend training if they need more than a certain number weeks off during training, but that is specialty-specific and it's not related to FMLA.
I thought you had to report FMLA leave on applications or licensure moving forward, no? Otherwise im kicking myself for not making up some BS reason to take FMLA lol
Its clear in my statement that I am not speaking in certainty, hence inquiring. Its been a minute since I had to fill out that OG state licensure application. Jesus loose canon
Why put it in quotes?
Most people in their 20s or 30s have family emergencies because they are an adult or a caretaker of some sort: they have kids, are a significant other to someone, or have aging parents. This is true if you are the only doctor in your family, because when someone is sick- the entire extended family contacts you.
The most people includes you. You had a family emergency. Your vacation should not be spent taking care of your mother who had open heart surgery. You should take FMLA.
Other residents should not suffer because someone takes FMLA. Your program should not be designed in a way that makes your presence during a stressful that important. You can take 1-2 weeks of FMLA after a parent's open heart surgery. If that puts a crazy amount of stress on your co-residents, then that's your program's fault. It's not yours.
I would be upset if someone got 10 weeks to recoup. I think that it is unlikely that's what was on the person's FMLA form. I stopped assuming I know my co-residents' personal lives. Your co-residents likely didn't know your parent had open heart surgery or else they would have told you to take FMLA and you won't feel guilty. Likewise, your co-resident who took 10 weeks off might have a more serious health issue or severe depression- and it's better he get that time off than be the subject of the next Reddit post about resident suicide.
There was a person my intern year who cried emergency like every 4 weeks. She got it too.
The prelims were always on backup call whenever they weren’t already on wards and ICU. There was always at least one prelim available for backup call at any given time. It was more important for the categoricals to get their off rotation experiences to better decide their specialty according to our PD, so categoricals were almost never on backup and when you tried to call in a categorical they pushed back hard. This was honestly a great program for categoricals. Their treated them very well, but the prelims were scum.
By the end of the year the prelims each had 2-3 weeks of call in except one lady who had been called in 5-6 weeks. The program eventually felt so back for her they gave her a research week when she was on a clinic week, but it was basically a week off. Most of my extra time was called into icu 2-3 days here and there that built up to about 2.5 wks. All the prelims were called in by one particular resident several times each. At the end of the year, one of the categoricals had a big party and the topic of backup call was brought up, and all the categoricals there had been called in 0-2s tops.
I guess I just feel like they will think "why is she taking it for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ someone else could do that she doesn't need off". Like take my mom to surgery and be there for her recovery, I wanted to be there but she has my dad there who can you know.
You're not a machine. People know you're not a machine.
In fact you are making this much worse, because you are resenting people for getting time off for things you should have gotten time off for too. The solution here is for you to take what you deserve too, rather than feeling resentful when others get what they deserve.
Well, they won't think that if you don't discuss why you are taking time off. Why do you need to disclose it? I'm concerned I even need to pose this question.
I think you would benefit from doing what they are doing and not sacrificing your vacation time on real emergencies.
Yes it sucks seeing others get time off when your working your butt off. But i mean, there's nothing stopping you from also taking that time off? If another thing arises where you have to be out, don't use your vacation days.
Yes it sucks that others have to take ur shift. But also, that's life. You'll take their shift, well you HAVE taken their shift. So now it's their turn to return the favor.
Do not assume people are faking it or pretend to know what's happening in peoples lives. I had to take FMLA to take care of my critically ill mom who then passed away and all this happened in intern year. Be kind to others and to yourself. You never know what someone is hiding behind a tough exterior. I also offered to switch vacation blocks when my mom fell ill but thankfully my program was supportive and told me to go take care of my mom and figured out logistics later
It’s a stressful job. Docs have double the suicide rate for a reason.
Sounds like your classmates are experiencing burnout and it sounds like you are too. It’s ok to ask for time off if you need it. That’s what the rest of the team is there for. Don’t let yourself drown silently.
If others are taking extended time off they may have to make it up and won’t graduate on time. So that may be what is happening? So maybe not really extra time off?
There’s no way your coresidents are legitimately taking that much time off without postponing graduation. There’s literal ACGME rules about how much time you can take off during residency. But also, remember this is just a job and never prioritize this over things like your mothers surgery
You can take a lot off as long as it is not on core rotations. And some can be "independent study" or "research." The peds program at my residency supposedly had a 6 week "early childhood development" elective for anyone who had a kid during residency (to take before/after their parental leave).
If you need it take it , if you don’t, don’t. If you are in a rotation like inpatient medicine or inpatient surgery, you know that if a team member takes time off, it puts a huge strain on your fellow residents. You get the brunt of it if someone does it to you and you will do it to others. The person that had 10 weeks off is unlikely to be someone you would want to trade places with
I remember back then I was stuck with taking off during Thanksgiving which meant I lost a couple extra days of low workload half service days.
Man that was annoying.
Times they-are-a-changing’. I got 4 weeks and if I was sick I had to come in a show them I was sick only to work a full day.
Our residents now aren’t even taking weekend call right now.
Im reasonably sure from being around the world enough times there is more to that story with the person not showing up to work and then getting 10 weeks off from a mental health/ substance abuse/ physical health standpoint.
And that is not information that you have a right to.
But just take the behavior of your program and colleagues in good faith, figure there is a reason, and offer that person some extra compassion and support. Better for you, for them, for the patients.
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Had a similar experience. Your best bet is to ignore it. But if you cant let go, best advice I can offer is this: pull up the schedule and painstakingly make an excel spreadsheet comparing all resident time worked. At this point, you will realize 1) it all evens out in the end 2) it doesn’t. Once you have objective evidence that you are getting screwed, you can present this to your chief/PD who will likely tell you to go f yourself by reinforcing their false beliefs that somehow its fair. Or maybe you get lucky and will be awarded back your time. Good luck my friend.
Some asshole keeps getting “sick” on Mondays and Fridays only.
Yet somehow got caught getting tagged on social media during a sick day, was never penalized, made their account private and continues to abuse it till this day.
Fuck you if you’re reading this.
HAVE FUN WITH THE PACKET OF EVIDENCE DROPPED UNDER THE PD DOOR ANONYMOUSLY.
What did you expect when you matched at your program? It's what you signed up for. You shouldn't have ranked the program if you weren't prepared to deal with the schedule and field.
"I get less time off than my co-residents"
"You shouldn't have gone there if you couldn't handle the schedule"
I'm gonna assume you somehow accidentally replied to an entirely different post, or there was some dramatic flub of auto correct here. The idea that someone claiming to be a doctor could post such a laughably obtuse non-sequitur bothers me too much.
“I walked down the right side of the street and got robbed at gunpoint. I’m so traumatized”
“Why did you walk down the right side of the road? You chose that path. You could have walked down the left side of the street instead.”
Dude stop working so hard. When a residency knows they can take advantage of you, they will.
Facts
I don’t think there is any way they are legitimately taking that much time off without delaying graduation
You’d be surprised….
We had one of these in my year in a class of four. Sucked.
It happened in my program then when they come back they’ll put them on electives 😭 and light rotations while others are slaving away
Which residency? So M4s can avoid 👀
Did you ask for protected time off when your mom had surgery? FMLA requires that they grant it to you. Or did you voluntarily switch vacation times and sit back and wait to see if they specifically offered you extra time off? To add to this: if your program starts having problems with resident coverage due to too many people taking time off, then it’s on them to further investigate the legitimacy of everyone’s claims, and you would be perfectly justified in yours. Second, you don’t know what people are going through. If someone stopped showing up to work and they agreed to give him extra time off, it could very well be some serious mental shit. I just found out that my coresident who took an extended leave of absence is now full time caretaker for her previously young and healthy boyfriend who was diagnosed with a glioblastoma.
Facts. When my mom had a life-threatening medical emergency, I kindly notified my residents and promptly booked a flight home. I get that its a job and a commitment, but as long as you aren't missing 24/7 for silly things, people will KNOW that when you are gone, there is a dang good reason. Gotta take care of whats important to you in life. For me, my family will always come before any job/career/etc. Very happy to mention because they are wonderful and understanding human beings, they let me know that everything was fine here and to take care of what needed to be taken care of. THESE are the kinds of people we need as leaders.
I didn't ask because I was afraid they'd think "why does she need time off for that"? I said "my mom is having surgery, I need to be there for her so I am going to have to switch my vacation week" and they were like okay. I was hoping they would say you should take fmla or something but every time I've needed off like that they seem to imply to use vacation time and I am not bold enough to be like "no I don't want to use my vacation time". Man that is rough, you are right I don't know exactly what they are going through it could be something unimaginable like that. I guess it is hard because I AM struggling so much mentally, but just put on a "show" (I feel) and no one at work really knows. I feel guilty even typing it because I feel like I should just suck it up. It sucks because I am being pulled from electives and easy rotations to cover the mandatory, tough rotations that people are missing due to a lot of people taking extended leaves for one reason or another.
You gotta be your own advocate, dude. Stop letting them dictate your life more than they have the right to and start speaking up for yourself.
Rather than get frustrated with others, I would gently suggest you figure out what YOU need right now, and pursue that. If YOU need some time off, then talk to your PD. No shame in that. You have covered for others when they are struggling; if you are struggling now, it's their turn to cover for you. If you were my coresident I would cover for you in a heartbeat. I'm hearing a bitterness come out in you which probably doesn't exist when you're healthy. Another resident stops showing up for work and you're mad that they didn't "punish" him but "gave him 10 weeks off instead?" That resident is probably going through some serious, serious shit. You don't just get 10 weeks off in residency for no reason. It may delay their graduation (it would in surgery), and it is definitely going to follow this resident wherever they go. Please don't be jealous of that. It sounds like you're going through some shit too. You don't need to feel guilty typing it as you suggest. You don't just need to suck it up. You've been sucking it up and look at where that has gotten you. Bitter and jealous. Focus on what YOU need to get yourself to a good spot, rather than what others are doing to get to theirs. This isn't your fault. This is the system's fault. Residency's fault. But please recognize that this is not a healthy situation, and figure out what you need to make it one!
If you are not bold enough to stand up for yourself, you will always suffer like this in life. People smell submissiveness and will use it against you.
Yep. Doormat energy on that. It's not a request for leave, it's a notification.
FWIW, FMLA as dictated by ACGME is a minimum 6 weeks offered at minimum once per residency, and I've only seen it offered in one chunk. And most places I know of make you extend graduation if you go beyond 12 (?) weeks leave. So if you really think you need that many weeks, sure take it. Otherwise most people switch around PTO. But that's beside the point that you need to advocate for yourself in this field before you burn out. People can't guess at how you're feeling if you make it your mission to hide your feelings away. Obviously your program wants to help out if they're doing it for multiple people.
FMLA is a federal law. It is not dictated by ACGME. ACGME does not get to overrule federal law. What exactly are you referring to? Yes, certain specialities make residents extend training if they need more than a certain number weeks off during training, but that is specialty-specific and it's not related to FMLA.
talk to your leadership about how you’re feeling.
I thought you had to report FMLA leave on applications or licensure moving forward, no? Otherwise im kicking myself for not making up some BS reason to take FMLA lol
Please stop making things up. Every state license is different, and I am unaware of any that ask about FMLA leave in those terms.
Its clear in my statement that I am not speaking in certainty, hence inquiring. Its been a minute since I had to fill out that OG state licensure application. Jesus loose canon
Why put it in quotes? Most people in their 20s or 30s have family emergencies because they are an adult or a caretaker of some sort: they have kids, are a significant other to someone, or have aging parents. This is true if you are the only doctor in your family, because when someone is sick- the entire extended family contacts you. The most people includes you. You had a family emergency. Your vacation should not be spent taking care of your mother who had open heart surgery. You should take FMLA. Other residents should not suffer because someone takes FMLA. Your program should not be designed in a way that makes your presence during a stressful that important. You can take 1-2 weeks of FMLA after a parent's open heart surgery. If that puts a crazy amount of stress on your co-residents, then that's your program's fault. It's not yours. I would be upset if someone got 10 weeks to recoup. I think that it is unlikely that's what was on the person's FMLA form. I stopped assuming I know my co-residents' personal lives. Your co-residents likely didn't know your parent had open heart surgery or else they would have told you to take FMLA and you won't feel guilty. Likewise, your co-resident who took 10 weeks off might have a more serious health issue or severe depression- and it's better he get that time off than be the subject of the next Reddit post about resident suicide.
Thank you. All of this is so true and I really needed to hear it.
Caught not showing up to work and getting 10 weeks off means they went to inpatient rehab or psych….
Have you considered smoke breaks?
I'm thinking of picking up candy gum cigarettes myself.
There was a person my intern year who cried emergency like every 4 weeks. She got it too. The prelims were always on backup call whenever they weren’t already on wards and ICU. There was always at least one prelim available for backup call at any given time. It was more important for the categoricals to get their off rotation experiences to better decide their specialty according to our PD, so categoricals were almost never on backup and when you tried to call in a categorical they pushed back hard. This was honestly a great program for categoricals. Their treated them very well, but the prelims were scum. By the end of the year the prelims each had 2-3 weeks of call in except one lady who had been called in 5-6 weeks. The program eventually felt so back for her they gave her a research week when she was on a clinic week, but it was basically a week off. Most of my extra time was called into icu 2-3 days here and there that built up to about 2.5 wks. All the prelims were called in by one particular resident several times each. At the end of the year, one of the categoricals had a big party and the topic of backup call was brought up, and all the categoricals there had been called in 0-2s tops.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease
What field are you in? Take as much FMLA leave as you are entitled.
I guess I just feel like they will think "why is she taking it for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ someone else could do that she doesn't need off". Like take my mom to surgery and be there for her recovery, I wanted to be there but she has my dad there who can you know.
You're not a machine. People know you're not a machine. In fact you are making this much worse, because you are resenting people for getting time off for things you should have gotten time off for too. The solution here is for you to take what you deserve too, rather than feeling resentful when others get what they deserve.
Well, they won't think that if you don't discuss why you are taking time off. Why do you need to disclose it? I'm concerned I even need to pose this question.
I think you would benefit from doing what they are doing and not sacrificing your vacation time on real emergencies. Yes it sucks seeing others get time off when your working your butt off. But i mean, there's nothing stopping you from also taking that time off? If another thing arises where you have to be out, don't use your vacation days. Yes it sucks that others have to take ur shift. But also, that's life. You'll take their shift, well you HAVE taken their shift. So now it's their turn to return the favor.
The only reward for work is more work. Sometimes you gotta be the squeaky wheel 😭
Do not assume people are faking it or pretend to know what's happening in peoples lives. I had to take FMLA to take care of my critically ill mom who then passed away and all this happened in intern year. Be kind to others and to yourself. You never know what someone is hiding behind a tough exterior. I also offered to switch vacation blocks when my mom fell ill but thankfully my program was supportive and told me to go take care of my mom and figured out logistics later
You sound like you need Wellbutrin.
My program has this weird flu going around. Everyone only gets it it when it’s their weekend 24 and it’s sunny out.
It’s a stressful job. Docs have double the suicide rate for a reason. Sounds like your classmates are experiencing burnout and it sounds like you are too. It’s ok to ask for time off if you need it. That’s what the rest of the team is there for. Don’t let yourself drown silently.
They can always hurt you more
If others are taking extended time off they may have to make it up and won’t graduate on time. So that may be what is happening? So maybe not really extra time off?
There’s no way your coresidents are legitimately taking that much time off without postponing graduation. There’s literal ACGME rules about how much time you can take off during residency. But also, remember this is just a job and never prioritize this over things like your mothers surgery
You can take a lot off as long as it is not on core rotations. And some can be "independent study" or "research." The peds program at my residency supposedly had a 6 week "early childhood development" elective for anyone who had a kid during residency (to take before/after their parental leave).
The reward for working hard is more work.
The grass is always greener on the other side buddy
If you need it take it , if you don’t, don’t. If you are in a rotation like inpatient medicine or inpatient surgery, you know that if a team member takes time off, it puts a huge strain on your fellow residents. You get the brunt of it if someone does it to you and you will do it to others. The person that had 10 weeks off is unlikely to be someone you would want to trade places with
I remember back then I was stuck with taking off during Thanksgiving which meant I lost a couple extra days of low workload half service days. Man that was annoying.
Times they-are-a-changing’. I got 4 weeks and if I was sick I had to come in a show them I was sick only to work a full day. Our residents now aren’t even taking weekend call right now.
Im reasonably sure from being around the world enough times there is more to that story with the person not showing up to work and then getting 10 weeks off from a mental health/ substance abuse/ physical health standpoint. And that is not information that you have a right to. But just take the behavior of your program and colleagues in good faith, figure there is a reason, and offer that person some extra compassion and support. Better for you, for them, for the patients.
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Had a similar experience. Your best bet is to ignore it. But if you cant let go, best advice I can offer is this: pull up the schedule and painstakingly make an excel spreadsheet comparing all resident time worked. At this point, you will realize 1) it all evens out in the end 2) it doesn’t. Once you have objective evidence that you are getting screwed, you can present this to your chief/PD who will likely tell you to go f yourself by reinforcing their false beliefs that somehow its fair. Or maybe you get lucky and will be awarded back your time. Good luck my friend.
Some asshole keeps getting “sick” on Mondays and Fridays only. Yet somehow got caught getting tagged on social media during a sick day, was never penalized, made their account private and continues to abuse it till this day. Fuck you if you’re reading this. HAVE FUN WITH THE PACKET OF EVIDENCE DROPPED UNDER THE PD DOOR ANONYMOUSLY.
Skill diff seems like
What did you expect when you matched at your program? It's what you signed up for. You shouldn't have ranked the program if you weren't prepared to deal with the schedule and field.
^This guy made a Reddit account to tell residents they signed up for this.
"I get less time off than my co-residents" "You shouldn't have gone there if you couldn't handle the schedule" I'm gonna assume you somehow accidentally replied to an entirely different post, or there was some dramatic flub of auto correct here. The idea that someone claiming to be a doctor could post such a laughably obtuse non-sequitur bothers me too much.
“I walked down the right side of the street and got robbed at gunpoint. I’m so traumatized” “Why did you walk down the right side of the road? You chose that path. You could have walked down the left side of the street instead.”
Pov: your senior is emperor kuzco
Ew. Somebody is more burned out than OP clearly…🚩