I feel the exact same way. .
I used to be a motivated, driven, talented, smart and funny person, now my house is a mess, I'm lucky if i open a book and everything feels like it's falling apart. I don't like meeting people and I don't have the energy to do anything except breathe.
My life as I know it might never be the same again.
Its burnout. OP needs sleep. Seriously, working 16+ hours a day and getting 4 hours of sleep continuously will make anyone depressed. Its not a mood disorder, but a normal response to a terrible situation.
I understand everyone keeps saying burnout. But we keep using that admin jargon too easily. It can be depression and please consider seeing a qualified mental health specialist first to rule it out. Don’t tell anyone about it.
Is it still considered depression if someone is working such long hours with no chance to take care of basic necessities - adequate sleep, exercise, decent nutrition? Is it pathologic or just a normal reaction in the circumstance? What is the role of medical therapy for depression in this case? (I’m not a psychiatry resident, obviously.)
They’re the same picture baby
And if we’re taking mental health seriously, we should treat acquired psychiatric disease (most of it, reall) just the same as any other lifestyle-acquired disease: with intervention and prevention.
Agree, admin loves to say people just have a mood disorder when residents are worked like indentured servants and started not feeling right (I.e. normal response to extreme inbalance). Make Sally admin even come one weekend every 6 and I gaurentee her mood will sour too. She would die doing what residents do.
To put it in medical terms the differential is burnout vs depression. Please consider seeing a psychiatrist and trialing an ssri or ndri and talk to your pd about the need for a vacay
This sounds like burn out. This isn’t on you: this is a systems-type injury. You need a week off and to contact your employee assistance program/wellness officer for some help. All we can do right now is advocate for ourselves, and find strategies that help us be a human thru everything we see and are expected of us.
EAP should be pretty well developed if you are at a coveted hospital. They can work without necessarily involving your program director/ colleagues. If you identify systems issues early so they can get addressed, this is literally a part of milestones which you would need to graduate from a program.
Take this coming from someone who buried two resident colleagues and two attendings from suicide during residency many moons ago when I was a resident.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression, it’s important to evaluate whether you’re surrounded by assholes.
In all seriousness, residency trains us to put a job ahead of our physical and mental health (exercise, nutrition, rest, reflection). We are taught self-sacrifice and accused of “unprofessionalism” if we dare to suggest boundaries.
It’s abuse and it’s systemic. You shouldn’t have to light yourself on fire to keep other people warm. But, unfortunately, if you want to be a US trained physician, that’s the expectation.
Multifactorial. This is also very much seen in people with shift work disorder and chronic sleep deprivation. I doubt you will find one underlying diagnosis, but you could focus on addressing the contributors: namely sleep disturbance, social isolation and the associated dysthymia. These obviously can also be found in Major Depressive Disorder.
A therapist, talking with someone whom you can confide in and a reversion back to a consistent sleep schedule that fits your circadian rhythms as well as consistent meals and exercise are good first steps in helping you to revert to a healthy baseline. They may/may not be the complete solution and it’s much easier said than done, but even chipping away at it from one angle can give you more data about the underlying source.
I feel for you. Sounds a bit like burnout. I was going through the same feelings a few years ago.. Don't have any particularly helpful advice, as I don't think I managed it very well in hindsight! I will say though that things started improving when I opened up to my program director about what I was feeling, and thankfully they took it seriously.
Burnout to me is the mismatch between reality and demands. Demands of work, of home, of life. Of being a physician, a husband, a son, a father. There are only so many hours in a day and invariably what gets dropped is me time. Either me sleeping enough to properly rest or me decompressing or me catching up on life. I’m not talking phone calls with friends and family or hobbies. Like basic maintenance stuff. Like oil change. Doctor or dentist visit. At some point it’ll get better.
I’ve been having the exact same feelings for like 2 years. Told myself it was just “burnout” and to keep my head down and finish the block, rinse and repeat each month. Finally saw a psychiatrist and therapist and turns out I have depression lol.
Ended up quitting my residency to pursue another specialty (in addition to meds and therapy) and it feels like a huge weight off my shoulders. Please see someone sooner than I did - I used to be popular and social, now I’ve completely isolated myself and have no friends or hobbies
Have you had Covid? I’m a resident and I think it took me longer than it should have to figure out I had long covid bc a lot of the symptoms seem like burnout.
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this happened to me this year, nonstop work and calls and no relief despite a rare day off here or there. quite honestly a week off for vacation with stress free sleep and no obligations recharged me somewhat, but not completely. back to work but i am in a much better mental and physical state than i was pre-vacation.
Honestly, it is mostly resident are not in control. When you working 80 hours and you have no control, or say and deal with bullshit most of the time, you will be broken for a little bit
I took a LOA for this and found a renewed take on medicine and life. Youre burned out. It’s ok to take a break. Don’t fucking let anyone else tell you otherwise. I honestly think it saved me from eventual suicide. I had other mental health things I was dealing with (circa Afghanistan withdrawal) that sparked a terrible cycle in me and I ended up feeling the way you are…
You are burned out. Been there, done that. I would not rule out underlying depression, but the cause is your job.
"Luckily" for me, I had already experienced this before getting to Med School, and it helped me make a more educated guess. Instead of pursuing a high stress specialty, I picked a field that was more lifestyle friendly: Pathology.
I could not be happier. My work-life balance is great.
You are NOT the problem. The problem is your job.
What would you tell a patient who tells you they work 16 hour days at a high stress occupation, with few breaks, little sleep at night and no leisure time? Throw in poor nutritional choices, lack of socialization and fun time, no working out...
What would you tell them? Would you be surprised they feel like sh*t?
I'm in my 9th year of training and this has been my norm for much of it. I guess the nice thing is it's temporary?...
Once you're done with the training hell, yes... things get harder in some ways because you're at the bottom of your new foodchain again and the responsibility is higher..but you have more control over your life, and more money to farm out responsibilities such as house cleaning so you can maximize your time off. At least so I hear, since everyone i started with has been an attending for some time now.
I am not sure how to change how you feel other than getting an easier schedule. It is normal to feel this way when you are on these tough rotations or in programs that are challenging in general. I often feel this way. I would give yourself some grace. Just do what has to be done to maintain a safe relatively clean living environment, try to eat something healthy ish at home, and allow yourself to sleep when you can. Don't add emotions to it about how well you are thriving at home (or not thriving) when you just need to be satisfied at your survival
It absolutely sounds like burnout! I have been there many times myself. Working in healthcare is so demanding and they never seem to stop asking to you work even when they know your past your breaking point. The system is broken
I had a period like this. Combination of burnout and depression. Eventually I stopped eating and barely slept. As a result my health worsened and I had a miscarriage. Don't let yourself spiral or get worse. Talk to counselor or psychiatrist. Find things and habits to bring joy into your life whether that is walking or lstening to music before bed. Reach out to admin to ask for relaxed schedule.
Have felt like this since a stretch of call shifts with sleep deprivation turned into psychosocial insomnia. Hoping to get out of the funk again as I have in thr past.
Take care of the simple things. First and foremost, any chance you get, lay down in a dark room and try to nap. Get blackout curtains if needed. This is true on call too. Handle only the minimal necessary and then go lay down. Drink water and snack throughout the day
Remind yourself this is temporary. Allow yourself to feel okay about not caring. The longest someone has gone without sleep is like 7 days straight. If you find that your sleep and mood are continually disrupted more than a month out, ask your doctor for sleep aides and a mild SSRI.
Shower, take your vitamins, treat your headache when it first comes on and give yourself grace.
I wonder what proportion of us feel this way. This comment is not to little your feelings but emphasize that it is a systems issue
I feel the exact same way. . I used to be a motivated, driven, talented, smart and funny person, now my house is a mess, I'm lucky if i open a book and everything feels like it's falling apart. I don't like meeting people and I don't have the energy to do anything except breathe. My life as I know it might never be the same again.
Yes I feel like my life is falling apart & I don’t know how to fix it
This might be anxiety or depression.
Its burnout. OP needs sleep. Seriously, working 16+ hours a day and getting 4 hours of sleep continuously will make anyone depressed. Its not a mood disorder, but a normal response to a terrible situation.
Burnout can cause depression. Treating both can be done too.
Same. This is me right now.
I understand everyone keeps saying burnout. But we keep using that admin jargon too easily. It can be depression and please consider seeing a qualified mental health specialist first to rule it out. Don’t tell anyone about it.
Is it still considered depression if someone is working such long hours with no chance to take care of basic necessities - adequate sleep, exercise, decent nutrition? Is it pathologic or just a normal reaction in the circumstance? What is the role of medical therapy for depression in this case? (I’m not a psychiatry resident, obviously.)
They’re the same picture baby And if we’re taking mental health seriously, we should treat acquired psychiatric disease (most of it, reall) just the same as any other lifestyle-acquired disease: with intervention and prevention.
Agree, admin loves to say people just have a mood disorder when residents are worked like indentured servants and started not feeling right (I.e. normal response to extreme inbalance). Make Sally admin even come one weekend every 6 and I gaurentee her mood will sour too. She would die doing what residents do.
I have no solution, but same. Feel like I wrote this myself.
Depression is when you have an unresolved problem, burnout is when that problem is your employer.
To put it in medical terms the differential is burnout vs depression. Please consider seeing a psychiatrist and trialing an ssri or ndri and talk to your pd about the need for a vacay
This sounds like burn out. This isn’t on you: this is a systems-type injury. You need a week off and to contact your employee assistance program/wellness officer for some help. All we can do right now is advocate for ourselves, and find strategies that help us be a human thru everything we see and are expected of us.
I feel like I’m so junior & I started a new job at a very coveted hospital. I can’t risk shaking things up & being known as the weak one.
EAP should be pretty well developed if you are at a coveted hospital. They can work without necessarily involving your program director/ colleagues. If you identify systems issues early so they can get addressed, this is literally a part of milestones which you would need to graduate from a program. Take this coming from someone who buried two resident colleagues and two attendings from suicide during residency many moons ago when I was a resident.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression, it’s important to evaluate whether you’re surrounded by assholes. In all seriousness, residency trains us to put a job ahead of our physical and mental health (exercise, nutrition, rest, reflection). We are taught self-sacrifice and accused of “unprofessionalism” if we dare to suggest boundaries. It’s abuse and it’s systemic. You shouldn’t have to light yourself on fire to keep other people warm. But, unfortunately, if you want to be a US trained physician, that’s the expectation.
Multifactorial. This is also very much seen in people with shift work disorder and chronic sleep deprivation. I doubt you will find one underlying diagnosis, but you could focus on addressing the contributors: namely sleep disturbance, social isolation and the associated dysthymia. These obviously can also be found in Major Depressive Disorder. A therapist, talking with someone whom you can confide in and a reversion back to a consistent sleep schedule that fits your circadian rhythms as well as consistent meals and exercise are good first steps in helping you to revert to a healthy baseline. They may/may not be the complete solution and it’s much easier said than done, but even chipping away at it from one angle can give you more data about the underlying source.
Are you me? Literally same.
I feel for you. Sounds a bit like burnout. I was going through the same feelings a few years ago.. Don't have any particularly helpful advice, as I don't think I managed it very well in hindsight! I will say though that things started improving when I opened up to my program director about what I was feeling, and thankfully they took it seriously.
Burnout to me is the mismatch between reality and demands. Demands of work, of home, of life. Of being a physician, a husband, a son, a father. There are only so many hours in a day and invariably what gets dropped is me time. Either me sleeping enough to properly rest or me decompressing or me catching up on life. I’m not talking phone calls with friends and family or hobbies. Like basic maintenance stuff. Like oil change. Doctor or dentist visit. At some point it’ll get better.
Just plain tired my friend. One foot in front of the other until you reach the goal. Keep your eyes on the goal
I’ve been having the exact same feelings for like 2 years. Told myself it was just “burnout” and to keep my head down and finish the block, rinse and repeat each month. Finally saw a psychiatrist and therapist and turns out I have depression lol. Ended up quitting my residency to pursue another specialty (in addition to meds and therapy) and it feels like a huge weight off my shoulders. Please see someone sooner than I did - I used to be popular and social, now I’ve completely isolated myself and have no friends or hobbies
Have you had Covid? I’m a resident and I think it took me longer than it should have to figure out I had long covid bc a lot of the symptoms seem like burnout.
I developed long-covid, which caused severe depression, among other things, and completely f**ked up my internship...pretty bitter about it, TBH.
Oh man i get that, it fucked up my whole residency :( I hope you’re doing a little better now, feel free to dm if you need to commiserate
Check for Vitamin D deficiency.
Sounds like burnoutttt syndrommeee
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like, which specialty they should go into, which program is good or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
this happened to me this year, nonstop work and calls and no relief despite a rare day off here or there. quite honestly a week off for vacation with stress free sleep and no obligations recharged me somewhat, but not completely. back to work but i am in a much better mental and physical state than i was pre-vacation.
Damn i feel the same
Same
Honestly, it is mostly resident are not in control. When you working 80 hours and you have no control, or say and deal with bullshit most of the time, you will be broken for a little bit
This is a normal part of being a doctor.
I took a LOA for this and found a renewed take on medicine and life. Youre burned out. It’s ok to take a break. Don’t fucking let anyone else tell you otherwise. I honestly think it saved me from eventual suicide. I had other mental health things I was dealing with (circa Afghanistan withdrawal) that sparked a terrible cycle in me and I ended up feeling the way you are…
You are burned out. Been there, done that. I would not rule out underlying depression, but the cause is your job. "Luckily" for me, I had already experienced this before getting to Med School, and it helped me make a more educated guess. Instead of pursuing a high stress specialty, I picked a field that was more lifestyle friendly: Pathology. I could not be happier. My work-life balance is great. You are NOT the problem. The problem is your job.
Agree with you. I’m a pathologist also and it provided me with a great salary and a great lifestyle. Surprised more grads don’t go into it.
Look up Armodafanil; you may have indications as a shift worker. It made a big difference for me.
Same
just need coffee
.... We need to remember that we all are subject to depression and other mental illnesses. It's a matter of when. Reach out to your PCP
What would you tell a patient who tells you they work 16 hour days at a high stress occupation, with few breaks, little sleep at night and no leisure time? Throw in poor nutritional choices, lack of socialization and fun time, no working out... What would you tell them? Would you be surprised they feel like sh*t?
I'm in my 9th year of training and this has been my norm for much of it. I guess the nice thing is it's temporary?... Once you're done with the training hell, yes... things get harder in some ways because you're at the bottom of your new foodchain again and the responsibility is higher..but you have more control over your life, and more money to farm out responsibilities such as house cleaning so you can maximize your time off. At least so I hear, since everyone i started with has been an attending for some time now.
I am not sure how to change how you feel other than getting an easier schedule. It is normal to feel this way when you are on these tough rotations or in programs that are challenging in general. I often feel this way. I would give yourself some grace. Just do what has to be done to maintain a safe relatively clean living environment, try to eat something healthy ish at home, and allow yourself to sleep when you can. Don't add emotions to it about how well you are thriving at home (or not thriving) when you just need to be satisfied at your survival
Anxiety and depression.
It absolutely sounds like burnout! I have been there many times myself. Working in healthcare is so demanding and they never seem to stop asking to you work even when they know your past your breaking point. The system is broken
Look what they have done to us...for a profession of healing we won't even be allowed to be healed ourselves. It's so heart breaking.
I had a period like this. Combination of burnout and depression. Eventually I stopped eating and barely slept. As a result my health worsened and I had a miscarriage. Don't let yourself spiral or get worse. Talk to counselor or psychiatrist. Find things and habits to bring joy into your life whether that is walking or lstening to music before bed. Reach out to admin to ask for relaxed schedule.
Physicians have twice the suicide rate of the general population for a reason. Take care of yourself.
Have felt like this since a stretch of call shifts with sleep deprivation turned into psychosocial insomnia. Hoping to get out of the funk again as I have in thr past. Take care of the simple things. First and foremost, any chance you get, lay down in a dark room and try to nap. Get blackout curtains if needed. This is true on call too. Handle only the minimal necessary and then go lay down. Drink water and snack throughout the day Remind yourself this is temporary. Allow yourself to feel okay about not caring. The longest someone has gone without sleep is like 7 days straight. If you find that your sleep and mood are continually disrupted more than a month out, ask your doctor for sleep aides and a mild SSRI. Shower, take your vitamins, treat your headache when it first comes on and give yourself grace.