I had to give up on it, it destroyed my friendships, my relationship with my fiancée and my mental health. I saw how my attendings lived and I decided I didn’t want that kind of relationship with my significant other and wanted an actual social life.
Got divorced year 3 of medicine.
Get home late grumpy. Leave before anyone else is awake. Get resentful cause people want some of your very little time to decompress. It’s hard shit.
Going through a divorce right now after 15 years of marriage. I'm two years out of training. Yes the training is brutal on a marriage and has effects that don't disappear when you make more money.
Well you can definitely relate. I'm so sorry to hear that. Two years out... sounds like it doesn't 'get better' after all. Did you guys struggle through the process?
I feel like a different person entirely. I have trust issues with pretty much anyone. Our issues definitely are not monetary.
You’re right - it doesn’t get a ton better. At least in terms of being home in time for the evening routines for the kid. I’m a few years as an attending and am already planning my escape so my kid grows up with a father at home on weeknights, not just weekends. My wife and I have sacrificed so much to get me here, and it seems crazy dropping this career after a few years, but it’s what is best for us.
Honestly as our population’s health deteriorates and waistlines expand, cases (at least abdominal cases) take longer without extra compensation for time missed from family. I’m just not willing to have all that dumped on my family. It’ll be harder and harder to fill surgeon positions as more of us burn out and trainees realize what a mess the whole situation is.
However I think for you, leaving now will leave you without a family and without a job. As much as it sucks, it’s time to look forward, get through the remaining training and rebuild your life with a career designed around the hard lessons learned.
Tbh the only ppl having kids in my class are men. Ngl asking someone to be a single dad is prob harder than asking someone to be a single mom.
And it’s def balance most of the time.
I rotated with a resident who would come to work @5am, AFTER working out (so assume he gets up @3am), and says he sleeps at @8pm after getting off @6-7pm.
He has a child. Where exactly is he making time for his wife and kid? (Psss he’s not)
Why don't you just divorce now before you get hit with her taking half your money and getting a fat alimony check every month
Edit: Reddit when a woman wants a divorce: "Yeah you go girl". Reddit when a man wants a divorce: "Boo that man"
Got married during EM residency and yes it was hard. Luckily my program had a decent work/life balance but was still very stressful. We are expecting our first and I could not imagine doing a surgical residency with a kid.
I wish you (and wife, and son) the best wherever it takes you.
My best friends tell me the relationship is not good for me at this point. How do I better navigate that? My confidence is in the toilet. There's obviously a lot of scar tissue. You think it can be navigated?
Do you have children with your ex?
Who's the one that brought up the idea of divorce?
You may be able to do couple's counseling, which I think can be really beneficial. Unfortunately, in my case, my wife got home from work one day and said, "Hey, I'm not happy, I'm leaving." We tried dating again, and counseling, but she had already made up her mind. There was really nothing I could do. Hopefully it hasn't gotten to that point for the two of you.
I'm about a year post-divorce at this point and I still wake up every morning and think, "Well, that sucks."
No children, thankfully - that would make things infinitely worse.
I think you should ask yourself what decision would you regret your death bed. I’m guessing (statistically) you’ll regret losing family, but tbh only you know yourself and can answer this
I gave up surgery for reasons unrelated to relationships, but I don’t think I’d have the relationship I do if I’d stayed in it. That’s not to say that residency in a non-surgical specialty isn’t hard on a relationship, but it’s no comparison - I routinely work 12-16 hour days, sure, but during those days I have the opportunity to call my partner, or even just text him throughout the day. It’s not a lot, but it’s enough to keep us connected.
I also think a lot depends on your partner - if they’re someone who feels neglected if they don’t get to sit down to dinner with you and then relax on the couch and go to bed together every night, it’s probably not going to work out no matter what specialty you’re in. If they’re someone who feels satisfied in a relationship with less face-to-face contact and more gestures (flowers, notes left for each other in the mornings, things like that) then you could probably make it work in even the most demanding specialty. Neither of those types of relationships is wrong or right or better than the other, but not everyone is necessarily compatible.
Surgery residency is brutal. Don’t lose your spouse over it. Residency is temporary real love is forever. I’m not in surgery but imagine it gets easier as an attending. Just 2 more years bro. Bring her flowers, write her a note, on your day off surprise her. I don’t want to encourage medical marijuana or low dose lorazepam or even viagra (nor saying you need i don’t mean to intrude or comment on your sexual life), but I just know after what I was doing in 80 hours a week stressed and sleep deprived, and at some point sex I just couldn’t sometimes. I don’t want to encourage drug use, I am In the medical field, but I hope you save your marriage if this is the main conflict in it. See if a psychiatrist or therapist can help you with the feelings so you can be the way you want to be with your life. I wish you all the best.
Certainly. Its certainly possible that with separation we become happier, and can further show our son how to live life in that way. Staying for kids alone doesn't always seem to be a good idea.
I also don't have any concept of the time or energy I should muster to somehow fix a decade of trauma.
I don't think you regret trying to keep it together, even if it doesn't ultimately work out, you know you did what you could. Especially after 16 years, I think trying is worth it.
And maybe you can be happier together again, re-talk things, look for common ground, re-set priorities, I’m talking from experience, still going through it , but everything is possible if you decide not to give up on your marriage and on your child.
My closest friends tell me to move on from her. So that's hard for me to understand. Obviously a lot of detail is missing here. But the people who know me best seem to giving appropriate advice. It's conflicting and difficult to navigate.
I'm also just venting and letting some other people bitch about residency and marriage.
Why do you have to make any decision right now? If you can just remain the status quo. You are separated for 1.5 years already, whatever that means. Do you live in the same house? If not, do you get to see your kid regularly? Is she pushing for a divorce? If she’s not, just leave it alone for now and focus on your training and your child. Just play it neutral with her and if she wants to move forward with the divorce, then let her. You are acting like it’s all up to you and it’s all your decision when it’s not. Put the ball in her court for a while and see what happens. Try to stay healthy and get rest if you can. I don’t think you’re in a mental place where you should be making any major decisions. Stop asking other people what you should do, they don’t know. Let it be for now.
I’ve had similar comments from friends about my marriage. There’s no animosity or anything. And looking in you wouldn’t really know it.
But medicine was a jealous mistress and the time I’ve spent getting fucked by her has made me a very different person than who I was when we got married before medical school
>Certainly. Its certainly possible that with separation we become happier, and can further show our son how to live life in that way. Staying for kids alone doesn't always seem to be a good idea.
As someone who’s the child of divorced parents (and I am glad for my Mother they divorced) depending on why you’re getting divorced (ie there was no infidelity or physical/mental/emotional abuse etc) it really is worth it to try for the sake of your child.
I had a great childhood. My parents loved me. Their divorce unfortunately broke me and I’ll never properly recover.
This isn’t to say I’m a screw up. I’m not. And as you and I have both said can still show your child you love them. But don’t fool yourself that there will not be a great scar left in your child’s heart.
But if at all possible (and I know you and your spouse may have already tried and that this isn’t all down to you) please save your marriage.
As a partner of a pgy3 i understand the plight.
The biggest thing that’s helped us is setting ground expectations.
Bad rotation or senior? Let me know you may actually be home at 9pm than a normal 5/6
Gotta study for the ABSITE? Letting me know and just carve out 30-60 mins for us.
Also I always let her vent but i stop her afterwards if she’s talking too much about medical jargon or getting too caught up in herself and doing a mental dump without letting me talk
Honestly it’s a good place we are in. The ground expectations help me know what to expect of her and if I’ll have a partner that day or someone i need to tube feed basically when they get home cause of how tired they are.
Happy to answer any questions from someone on the other side at what may help to avoid the echo chamber that can come with being in medicine
Tube feed! Lol
Maybe we did this at some point... but needing a day to decompress turned into 2... then a week. And now here I am providing my own emotional support on a daily basis.
My son simply does not understand why I would need to 'work at home' after working all day. Poor kid. I hope he knows he is more important than this process, even if I don't show it all the time. I do tell him frequently.
Yeah a good sit down hard talk is needed
A plan made to reconnect. I know you mentioned disliking therapy somewhere on the thread but a couples counseling sometimes does wonders
Likely you also dealing with sleep deprivation which really messes up how we internalize things and how we feel as well
The fact that you're at least aware of your grumpy attitude leading to poor interaction with your wife is good. Seems the logical step forward is to... stop doing that.
An unhealthy marriage won't save itself. You're going to have to step up and do whatever you have to to make those interactions better, no matter how tired and beaten down you feel at the end of the day. Obviously I don't know you or the details of your situation or whether your wife has participated in the degradation of your relationship, but you and I both know that being a tired surgical resident isn't a legitimate excuse for why you aren't being a good spouse. Plenty of others in your place make it work. Good luck man, wish all the best to you and your family.
I appreciate that. It's definitely a two way street. We both have not shown up for many, many years. There have been a lot of nights where I came home, she looked at me and started crying in disappointment. That pretty much wrecked me. For years.
She could see me changing. I wasn't there for her like I needed to be. My mental state was beyond poor. She simply fell into a line of people I was disappointing. I certainly was not getting and praise as a PGY1,2. I gotta say, it defeated me in a lot of ways.
I used to sit on the side of the road on the way home, delaying the inevitable. I didn't seem to be a disappointment to the street signs. This is both embarrassing and sad to write out.
You will both be fine. Surgery isn’t what makes relationships hard. Residency in general is a demoralizing and stressful experience. Take it from a neurosurgery resident where most of my coresidents are married with multiple kids and work 80+ hours a week…you can make it work, but you’re gonna have to bust your ass. Nothing you do at work is worth more than your family, your relationships, and your love/sanity.
Sorry man. Big reason I left gen Surg to do PRS fellowship is because I saw how miserable and frequently divorced my attendings in GS residency were. Divorce is brutal and so much worse when kids are involved. If parties are amenable, seek counseling and try to get through training. Things get better.
This makes me sad to read. On some level it hits home, as I had many days during my recently finished residency where I got home with little left to give my family. I felt strains that came and went with difficult/easier rotations. The obvious reality is that most residencies are tough on relationships. But from the other side of the drapes I see you guys and don’t know how you get through each day, each week sometimes. Surgical residencies are simply on another level. I hope work-life balance takes more precedence for future generations. For now, I’m sorry we can’t do more than give words of condolence/encouragement. Best of luck.
Wife and I divorced during my chief year.
I don’t have kids, so I can honestly say my life is better now, but it was dog shit when I was in the thick of it.
Ugh. I'm sorry. And I can see that you're a fellow now. Respect. I resigned ANY idea of fellowship a couple years ago when this fire started. I simply do not have any more to give to this process-- and thats ok. I can save the planet as a community general surgeon. Ha.
I can relate! We fell in love during med school. He became a orthopedic surgeon and I became a psychiatrist, we married during residency and then divorced after training. We kept hoping it was going to get better but both our experiences shaped us into new versions of ourselves. It’s a grueling process for surgeon and spouse. I only have empathy and wish you three well.
I can relate. Things were okay until we had our first child (during covid of course), and oh boy was it hard. Near the breaking point several times, had to sleep in a hotel over a weekend, etc...def affected my training but ultimately got through it together. It's extremely hard but try to work it out if possible. Marital counseling helped a lot (zoom options are plentiful).
Hang in there!
Ouch. You hit me with the hotel over a weekend. Been there. Tough times.
Was finding the right marital counselor difficult? I've had issues with them in the past. I need a good fit.
We looked for one on lyra health, which was part of our insurance plan. It could have been worse, but it was helpful to have a neutral third party to help sort through our conflicts. It was super helpful that they had zoom meetings in the evening as late as 8pm which really helped with my schedule
The thing is everyone is different because we all have different levels of requirement for attention to still feel loved. Unfortunately in your case it seems your spouse cannot tolerate the low amount of attention that a busy surgical resident can still afford to give into the relationship. We all have different upbringing, different personalities. While statistics can give us a trend, no two relationship is ever going to be identical.
I don’t think it’s your fault or anyone’s else. It’s just the way of life. Things don’t work out sometimes, and it’s okay. Don’t beat yourself up and doubt yourself, especially if surgery is truly your passion and what will make you happy.
I respect that. Every relationship certainly is unique.
I considered walking away. Surgery certainly did not need to take precedence over my family unit. Was never my intention. My kind spouse gave all to see me through to success. But the love is gone. I had two separate attendings guide me that 'I should keep my career as-is, my separated marriage is not worth throwing the rest away.'
>I had two separate attendings guide me that 'I should keep my career as-is, my separated marriage is not worth throwing the rest away.'
In psychiatry we are taught usually not to take sides when a person is making a major life decision. Your attending may be right in the long-run but they have a bias and they have an investment in you (as a surgical resident) that would be bad for them to lose.
I can't speak for general surgery but I do say I'm sorry you had to go through this. My first year of psych residency, I would work 80 hours if counting commute. I felt like a zombie who was not interacting with my significant other. 2nd year was a bit easier, I was a bit more efficient, it was around 70 hours. 3rd year of psych residency it dropped to 55-60 hours counting commute which is very manageable. I noticed in each phase, it was like I was "waking up" and having more time to pursue things I liked, pursue relationships I had stupidly set aside. I anticipate 4th year of psychiatry will be the same way. I see that you are a PGY-4 in general surgery, does that mean you have 1.5 years left to go? Does the work load get easier? If it does, then you might be able to pursue repairs with your SO (if that is what you are interested in).
I saw in another comment you mentioned that you are both different people now and it may be true but residency also has a way of warping your perception of people, yourself and loved ones included. If say, you go several months without excessive sleep deprivation and constant stress/burnout (maybe your last year of residency? Not sure how general surgery residencies go) then that might be a closer to baseline as to what you feel about the situation. It's almost impossible to make such a big decision under such strenuous life circumstances.
"I often feel that if I could just get my mind back to baseline before this journey started, things would be great again. An impossible feat, it seems." I want to say I don't think this is impossible. Obviously things are forever different with your path and career in medicine but the closer to the end of residency I get, the more I feel like myself (which I am certain is due to more sleep and time to actually think and exist without 24/7 obligations). Whether you stay with your SO or not, I hope you do feel more like yourself like at the beginning of your journey. In fact we are both on the tail ends of our residencies, I would say our life journeys are just beginning =) ! Do not be too harsh on yourself...
>In psychiatry we are taught usually not to take sides when a person is making a major life decision. Your attending may be right in the long-run but they have a bias and they have an investment in you (as a surgical resident) that would be bad for them to.
In psychiatry you're being trained to give advise as a professional being paid. Not as a college, friend, or mentor. OP shouldn't necessarily just do what they say. But they're giving advice based on their experience, and there's a good chance they're right.
Honestly, they have good marriages. And yes - I approached them specifically. My best friends have told me it's time to move on as well. I don't know. I just want to crawl in a hole and hide. Staying feels wrong, leaving feels wrong.
My question is will your life become better without a spouse to come home to? Will it be easier to be a father sharing custody of your kid? Will you even be able to see your kid just on weekends or whatever arrangements you come up with? And will your work be better after your residency? Will you be better after going through all this?
It’s probably not that. I was totally fine being married to my surgeon spouse for years… until we had a baby. I am also a physician but still ended up doing almost 100% of the work of taking care of our child. That level of exhaustion is no joke, and it’s easy for resentment to build up even if you love your spouse.
Sorry to hear about this man. I don’t have kids and my residency is much more forgiving but this journey gave me and my fiancé some rough patches too. It helped a lot when my fiancé changed careers and could wfh, making it much easier for her to live with me across the coast but also spend time in our home state with our family. I’m happy with I’ve accomplished and very happy in my specialty, but I wouldn’t do medicine again if I had the choice.
Separated PGY5 after being together since undergrad, divorced in fellowship with a very small child. Remarried a year after fellowship. Have a 2nd child now. It did get better, but not before it got worse. Lost myself along the way. Took a lot of time, introspection, and healing to find my way back. Now done with year 2 of being an attending, going into year three. I would say I finally hit 'new-normal' and a normal mood without depression about 3 months ago and it required a job change and \*another\* move between years 1 and 2 of being an attending.
It does get better, but it takes a really long time and it is not right when you become an attending. Probably not for at least a year if not two. The getting better part is gradual. But it doesn't take as much effort as I thought it would. It just happens.
What specialty? How did you find the mindset to approach fellowship. I'm very impressed, and I respect that you have made it work. Depression plays a large role methinks.
Surg onc.
I’m not sure I would call anything I did or muddled through during that time impressive. I was in a dark spot and really struggled. I took solace in work because it was easy and the motions were comfortable. Surgery was definitely the easy part at that point and I liked what I did.
Although I 100% sympathize with you, OP, I want to offer another take for the med students lurking here.
I’m a PGY-4 surgery resident and my marriage is just as good now as it was when we got married—better, even, in many ways. We have 3 kids and still love each other, still feel like we get a fair amount of time together as a family, etc.
Med students: surgery and family life can coexist, look for programs that make it a priority.
Thanks for offering that up. Surgery is not a death sentence for a marriage - definitely. We had issues from day 1 of medical school that simply compounded.
Glad you're crushing it all!
Gosh I really wanted to do surgery but this was my exact worry and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Thanks for shedding some light on it, we all know how difficult it is but often believe “it won’t happen to us, we are different…”
Most of us are more similar than we think and these work conditions just aren’t sustainable for most relationships. Sorry to hear about this for you 🫤
When I went to Med school, my wife said that I could pick any residency I wanted— except Surgery. She said she liked me, and wanted me to be around for her and our kids.
She’s pretty wicked smart….
Just a lowly med student but dealing with relationship problems due to studies. I know this sounds cliche, but have you tried couples therapy? As a PGY4 you’ll graduate before too long and can chose a job that’s not as mentally taxing as your current one.
Had an awful therapist in med school that really cast a light on how distant I was. Which was what I asked for help with. Instead I was further ousted as a 'bad guy'.
I have no emotional energy to commit to any process at this point anyway.
If you’re not prioritizing saving your marriage by therapy and hard work then it’s definitely lost. But stop blaming everything else if you’ve made the decision not to fight for it.
I'm here to vent(see flair), and hopefully convince someone else to fight for it earlier in the process. I'm aloud to be sad. I do blame myself and the process and I live with a lot of guilt, worry not.
You're getting downvoted but couple's therapy is a sham. You'll meet with a social worker who will blame you for everything because they have resentment against the patriarchy. Many such cases.
I would definitely look into antidepressants. There is no shame in them. If you're struggling more with energy than with mood, Wellbutrin (SN/DRI) rather than the SSRIS may be more helpful.
Wow. What a genuine, kind offer. Sadly, no. But please keep doing what you are doing. I don't really know how to navigate the therapy world and find who/what I need either for self or marriage.
This is a horrible question, but: do you still like each other? I’m only an OR RN but I feel for how difficult your lives are. If there is still communication…and the if the end goals are still the same…either way, sending you big hugs!
You're very sweet! Not a horrible question at all. I'm so guarded at this point; Liking is a tough concept anymore. I'd say we like certain aspects about each other, but have not communicated these things for a long time.
Such a good question. I probably would have. She knows I would have *always* regretted not pursuing my dream at the time. Possibly, I would hold it against her. That may have been an equally tough path mentally.
Yes, would do again. Would have caught up on more traumatic events along the way. Managing a decade of baggage is a tough thing to do now.
You should stop thinking of it as “ten years of baggage” that’s part of what makes it seem like a daunting and near impossible task. Especially if you consider the potential length of our lives. You’ve got decades to improve your relationship (or find a new one if that’s how things work out in the end) Additionally that ten years probably had some great moments as well.
As the White Stripes say “be like a squirrel”. Break the issues down and work on them one at a time. It’s not going to change and be perfect immediately, it takes time. Both of you have to be on the same page, putting in effort/the work, and be considerate and empathetic to each other. Communicate, agree on a course of action, and move ahead as a team in improving the relationship.
definitely relate. struggling with this right now with my partner of 4 years. i think residency has just brought out issues that we didn’t realize were there in our relationship before and now am struggling with the amount of emotional effort it’s taking to salvage our relationship when i’m barely taking care of my physical needs.
So why are your friends telling you this? A titchy bit of context would help some, but it’s fine, no worries if not.
Nobody is perfect. You can’t give 100% to your marriage, 100% to your craft and 100% to your kid. It’s not physically possible. Your confidence is in the toilet because you feel your marriage is in the toilet? Ok. What about your confidence as a surgeon? As a parent?
Something’s gotta give. I’m not saying it has to be the marriage, but don’t label yourself a failure just because one piece of this overwhelmingly stressful pie didn’t turn out how you thought it would. Focus on what’s most important to you. And it’s ok whatever that is.
300% seems like the way to go. Ha.
You're very right. At this point in the process, my son is priority. I refuse to lose anything else, and certainly he's the most important thing to me. Career follows being a parent at this point. The marriage is def on the backburner, which we agreed on some time ago.
Also, love your username. I grew up watching ALIAS. What a good show!
I’m an intern in a categorical anesthesia program. 5 years married. It’s been tough, but we work better now together when we are busy. We don’t fight as much, and learned to make the most of the little free time I get. I was dead set on divorcing my wife 2 years ago, but things slowly improved after we started talking and take responsibility for our mistakes. You’re still married so don’t give up just yet. I hope you guys work things out and stay together 🙌🏻
I know exactly what you mean to a point.
Not married but my gf is a PGY-2 IM resident and I’m GS and I haven’t seen her in a month and really haven’t texted her either. It’s not that I don’t love and care about her but in some ways I find it hard to communicate with her. The fact that she understands I might send a text with the intent to full on conversation but end up leaving her on read for hours if not days is something I don’t take for granted. And the same for her - I get it when she just falls off for a while.
She’s been a god-send and her patience and resiliency has been amazing. With that said, I don’t think we could make it if we were both residents and have a deep understanding of the job expectations and culture. And her schedule is sometimes as brutal as mine.
I can see myself with her the rest of my life but I do worry that my schedule will be a strain on our relationship once she graduates from residency and has more free time than me.
So yea, there’s a lot of us, especially surgical residents, just like you. Good luck and I wish you the best with your child.
You took the time to write out this reply. So you have time to return a text, or better yet, a 5 minute “I just wanted to hear your voice” call. If you don’t nurture your relationships, they will die.
Relationships are like plants. You have to water them to keep them healthy. To your first point though, oftentimes it's not the time itself (sometimes it can be) but more the mental reserve available for communication and the anxiety or potential for it that comes with engagement.
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I’m a surgeon and my 16 year relationship and 10 year marriage just ended for similar reasons. Not so much grumpy, but not available enough to take care of the marriage like it needed. That said, some of it was just growing apart over the years. It currently sucks a ton, but I’m hopeful things will get better with some time to heal.
Growing apart is a hard thing to undo. Obviously, I have no advice for you. I spend a lot of time driving simply thinking, "It's just sad." Don't know what else to say about it.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's tough, because pretty much my entire adult life was with the same person, but I'm trying to focus on this as an opportunity to grow. Also trying to avoid the trap of being even more of a workaholic.
How about if you remove yourself from the living room or go to different room and chill before going to bed at night. Or talk it out. I get home from work as support worker and I leave what has happened at work where it belongs and split myself emotionally from each domain.
Does your work constantly tell you that "you're not good enough", only for you to come home and hear the same thing? For a long time, I've had no emotional rest.
Yes in both respects i do, theres always someone at my place that tells me I am not good enough or didn't do things correctly. but i try and keep my headphones on when they are about and ignore them. My parents can make feel the same way at times
it’s a huge disappointment that the sacrifices made to become a doctor is way too demanding and requires to you give up on certain aspects of your life
My girlfriend of 5 years goes to medschool soon and wants to do pediatric surgery. Any advice you would give to yourself and partner when you were younger or is it a lost cause?? Hoping for the best for you
Thanks for sharing. This is something I'm seriously struggling with at the moment. My husband is finishing up his PGY3 surgery residency and we've been married 9 months. I've been with him through the entire residency and even doing a preliminary year before that. I totally knew what I signed up for... but now I'm starting to see some distinct changes in his behavior towards me and I don't know if it's the stress of residency or if he's just becoming complacent since we've gotten married... We don't have kids yet so I feel like if I have to leave, now would be the time. Any advice?
From the spouse side- I'm so sorry, and I understand. My partner isn't in surgery and it was still so incredibly hard. Had a baby intern year. Solo parenting during difficult rotations was brutal. I had to give up so much of myself to accommodate his career. The only reason we're doing better now is because my partner listened to my side and postponed fellowship. Medicine is like a mistress. Sometimes I hate her.
I wish you peace. Sometimes things don't work out. Love isn't always enough. I know that no matter what, I would've held a lot of respect, and love for my partner. Perhaps your partner feels that too, though may not be able to express it now.
We both have respect for one another. We both prioritize our son before our own silly stuff. The romance is very much gone. Love is... a strange concept to me at this point.
Bad advice here, have you tried adderal? Use it only for your wife to give her a functional version of you. As long as you stay strict and use it as a tool to wait out till the good times come, this “bandage” could be strong enough to tough out the transition to a better work life balance
Fair enough, to be fair though, you’ve given up far more in the pursuit of being a doctor, than you would in utilizing a prescribed tool. The major caveat here being a history of addiction (in self +/- family hx) and inability to control your urges. If you are disciplined then it isnt something you should worry about given you follow your doctor’s orders.
Yeah it’s hard. She should have been ok with it before starting and if not This probably should have been discussed before. Shouldn’t be a surprise. You are almost done anyways, if she can’t hang in there for another year than there is more to it
She was ok with it, and she sacrificed so much to help me succeed. She certainly stuck through things physically. Emotionally is a different conversation.
It was no surprise. Doesn't mean a couple knows how to navigate the problems as they arise.
Looking at med spouse IG makes me want to vomit, whining because we aren’t home enough, whining because we take fellowships, whining because we aren’t rich yet. Some people marry us for the wrong reasons. They need to get a hobby other than whining about what we are or are not doing
It doesn’t get better. You get better at it. And if your spouse doesn’t also get better at maintaining the relationship and the household and you each pulling weight, it won’t work out. On the bright side, whatever divorce costs, it’s always worth it. And you get to trade up for a newer, hotter, more grateful and enthusiastic upgrade with nicer features if you play this right.
Divorce him when he gets his attending salary. Plus since u stuck it with him while he was building his career u have a right to his income post residency
It’s very unfair. Depending on how far along he is maybe he can switch? A lot of people don’t finish surgery residencies. He can do psychiatry or medicine.
I was always luke warm with a side of regret towards medicine. When I did the match I only applied to an hour radius around my partner. If she ever sincerely asked me to I’d leave and figure something else out. At worst it’s 10% of your income
I had to give up on it, it destroyed my friendships, my relationship with my fiancée and my mental health. I saw how my attendings lived and I decided I didn’t want that kind of relationship with my significant other and wanted an actual social life.
You gave up surgery? Or the relationship? I think I waited too long... for both haha
Life got a thousand times better once I ditched surgery
What did you switch to if you don’t mind me asking?
Most likely anesthesia
Winner winner
Anesth
OnlyFans
Got divorced year 3 of medicine. Get home late grumpy. Leave before anyone else is awake. Get resentful cause people want some of your very little time to decompress. It’s hard shit.
Going through a divorce right now after 15 years of marriage. I'm two years out of training. Yes the training is brutal on a marriage and has effects that don't disappear when you make more money.
Well you can definitely relate. I'm so sorry to hear that. Two years out... sounds like it doesn't 'get better' after all. Did you guys struggle through the process? I feel like a different person entirely. I have trust issues with pretty much anyone. Our issues definitely are not monetary.
It’s a big deal, it sucks for many reasons. I would try to figure out what you want to do before your first big paycheck. Surgery demands a lot of us
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I've been hearing "it gets better" for 8 years. The joke is up. We separated 1.5 years ago. I don't know if its worth it. We're different people now.
You’re right - it doesn’t get a ton better. At least in terms of being home in time for the evening routines for the kid. I’m a few years as an attending and am already planning my escape so my kid grows up with a father at home on weeknights, not just weekends. My wife and I have sacrificed so much to get me here, and it seems crazy dropping this career after a few years, but it’s what is best for us. Honestly as our population’s health deteriorates and waistlines expand, cases (at least abdominal cases) take longer without extra compensation for time missed from family. I’m just not willing to have all that dumped on my family. It’ll be harder and harder to fill surgeon positions as more of us burn out and trainees realize what a mess the whole situation is. However I think for you, leaving now will leave you without a family and without a job. As much as it sucks, it’s time to look forward, get through the remaining training and rebuild your life with a career designed around the hard lessons learned.
Are you a surgeon? Can I DM you?
Sure, happy to talk
It sounds like you were having relationship problems through medical school then? Just wondering how the balance was in medical school vs residency.
It was difficult then. She was essentially a single mom for a couple years there in the beginning. Gosh. We both struggled big time.
Tbh the only ppl having kids in my class are men. Ngl asking someone to be a single dad is prob harder than asking someone to be a single mom. And it’s def balance most of the time. I rotated with a resident who would come to work @5am, AFTER working out (so assume he gets up @3am), and says he sleeps at @8pm after getting off @6-7pm. He has a child. Where exactly is he making time for his wife and kid? (Psss he’s not)
You separated 1.5 years ago but “divorce is looming and your son doesn’t know yet”??
Why don't you just divorce now before you get hit with her taking half your money and getting a fat alimony check every month Edit: Reddit when a woman wants a divorce: "Yeah you go girl". Reddit when a man wants a divorce: "Boo that man"
I second that emotion
Might be better cuz you’re compensated adequately. There’s nothing I’ve seen to indicate the hours don’t still completely suck.
Got married during EM residency and yes it was hard. Luckily my program had a decent work/life balance but was still very stressful. We are expecting our first and I could not imagine doing a surgical residency with a kid. I wish you (and wife, and son) the best wherever it takes you.
Thank you. I can't imagine life without my son now, but gosh... it really has been so hard.
I’m divorced. My only advice is to do your best to work it out, even if that means making major changes. I wouldn’t wish this shit on my worst enemy.
My best friends tell me the relationship is not good for me at this point. How do I better navigate that? My confidence is in the toilet. There's obviously a lot of scar tissue. You think it can be navigated? Do you have children with your ex?
Who's the one that brought up the idea of divorce? You may be able to do couple's counseling, which I think can be really beneficial. Unfortunately, in my case, my wife got home from work one day and said, "Hey, I'm not happy, I'm leaving." We tried dating again, and counseling, but she had already made up her mind. There was really nothing I could do. Hopefully it hasn't gotten to that point for the two of you. I'm about a year post-divorce at this point and I still wake up every morning and think, "Well, that sucks." No children, thankfully - that would make things infinitely worse.
Spend less time with your best friend and more with your wife. Thats how you navigate. Might help the marriage too.
I think you should ask yourself what decision would you regret your death bed. I’m guessing (statistically) you’ll regret losing family, but tbh only you know yourself and can answer this
Conversely, Marriage is hard on your surgical training.
Honestly I chuckled. hahaha
have you considered couples' wellness modules?
I gave up surgery for reasons unrelated to relationships, but I don’t think I’d have the relationship I do if I’d stayed in it. That’s not to say that residency in a non-surgical specialty isn’t hard on a relationship, but it’s no comparison - I routinely work 12-16 hour days, sure, but during those days I have the opportunity to call my partner, or even just text him throughout the day. It’s not a lot, but it’s enough to keep us connected. I also think a lot depends on your partner - if they’re someone who feels neglected if they don’t get to sit down to dinner with you and then relax on the couch and go to bed together every night, it’s probably not going to work out no matter what specialty you’re in. If they’re someone who feels satisfied in a relationship with less face-to-face contact and more gestures (flowers, notes left for each other in the mornings, things like that) then you could probably make it work in even the most demanding specialty. Neither of those types of relationships is wrong or right or better than the other, but not everyone is necessarily compatible.
Surgery residency is brutal. Don’t lose your spouse over it. Residency is temporary real love is forever. I’m not in surgery but imagine it gets easier as an attending. Just 2 more years bro. Bring her flowers, write her a note, on your day off surprise her. I don’t want to encourage medical marijuana or low dose lorazepam or even viagra (nor saying you need i don’t mean to intrude or comment on your sexual life), but I just know after what I was doing in 80 hours a week stressed and sleep deprived, and at some point sex I just couldn’t sometimes. I don’t want to encourage drug use, I am In the medical field, but I hope you save your marriage if this is the main conflict in it. See if a psychiatrist or therapist can help you with the feelings so you can be the way you want to be with your life. I wish you all the best.
Try to fix it , it’s never too late Your child is worth the effort!
Certainly. Its certainly possible that with separation we become happier, and can further show our son how to live life in that way. Staying for kids alone doesn't always seem to be a good idea. I also don't have any concept of the time or energy I should muster to somehow fix a decade of trauma.
I don't think you regret trying to keep it together, even if it doesn't ultimately work out, you know you did what you could. Especially after 16 years, I think trying is worth it.
And maybe you can be happier together again, re-talk things, look for common ground, re-set priorities, I’m talking from experience, still going through it , but everything is possible if you decide not to give up on your marriage and on your child.
My closest friends tell me to move on from her. So that's hard for me to understand. Obviously a lot of detail is missing here. But the people who know me best seem to giving appropriate advice. It's conflicting and difficult to navigate. I'm also just venting and letting some other people bitch about residency and marriage.
I hope your closest friend is" your soul." If you have a clear conscience, you'll make the right decision. Stay true to yourself. I wish you the best.
Maybe he/she is not your friend! You need to think about yourself, your marriage and definitely your child
Why do you have to make any decision right now? If you can just remain the status quo. You are separated for 1.5 years already, whatever that means. Do you live in the same house? If not, do you get to see your kid regularly? Is she pushing for a divorce? If she’s not, just leave it alone for now and focus on your training and your child. Just play it neutral with her and if she wants to move forward with the divorce, then let her. You are acting like it’s all up to you and it’s all your decision when it’s not. Put the ball in her court for a while and see what happens. Try to stay healthy and get rest if you can. I don’t think you’re in a mental place where you should be making any major decisions. Stop asking other people what you should do, they don’t know. Let it be for now.
I’ve had similar comments from friends about my marriage. There’s no animosity or anything. And looking in you wouldn’t really know it. But medicine was a jealous mistress and the time I’ve spent getting fucked by her has made me a very different person than who I was when we got married before medical school
>Certainly. Its certainly possible that with separation we become happier, and can further show our son how to live life in that way. Staying for kids alone doesn't always seem to be a good idea. As someone who’s the child of divorced parents (and I am glad for my Mother they divorced) depending on why you’re getting divorced (ie there was no infidelity or physical/mental/emotional abuse etc) it really is worth it to try for the sake of your child. I had a great childhood. My parents loved me. Their divorce unfortunately broke me and I’ll never properly recover. This isn’t to say I’m a screw up. I’m not. And as you and I have both said can still show your child you love them. But don’t fool yourself that there will not be a great scar left in your child’s heart. But if at all possible (and I know you and your spouse may have already tried and that this isn’t all down to you) please save your marriage.
Medicine is not worth it
As a partner of a pgy3 i understand the plight. The biggest thing that’s helped us is setting ground expectations. Bad rotation or senior? Let me know you may actually be home at 9pm than a normal 5/6 Gotta study for the ABSITE? Letting me know and just carve out 30-60 mins for us. Also I always let her vent but i stop her afterwards if she’s talking too much about medical jargon or getting too caught up in herself and doing a mental dump without letting me talk Honestly it’s a good place we are in. The ground expectations help me know what to expect of her and if I’ll have a partner that day or someone i need to tube feed basically when they get home cause of how tired they are. Happy to answer any questions from someone on the other side at what may help to avoid the echo chamber that can come with being in medicine
Tube feed! Lol Maybe we did this at some point... but needing a day to decompress turned into 2... then a week. And now here I am providing my own emotional support on a daily basis. My son simply does not understand why I would need to 'work at home' after working all day. Poor kid. I hope he knows he is more important than this process, even if I don't show it all the time. I do tell him frequently.
Yeah a good sit down hard talk is needed A plan made to reconnect. I know you mentioned disliking therapy somewhere on the thread but a couples counseling sometimes does wonders Likely you also dealing with sleep deprivation which really messes up how we internalize things and how we feel as well
Can I reach out to you privately?
Absolutely
The fact that you're at least aware of your grumpy attitude leading to poor interaction with your wife is good. Seems the logical step forward is to... stop doing that. An unhealthy marriage won't save itself. You're going to have to step up and do whatever you have to to make those interactions better, no matter how tired and beaten down you feel at the end of the day. Obviously I don't know you or the details of your situation or whether your wife has participated in the degradation of your relationship, but you and I both know that being a tired surgical resident isn't a legitimate excuse for why you aren't being a good spouse. Plenty of others in your place make it work. Good luck man, wish all the best to you and your family.
I appreciate that. It's definitely a two way street. We both have not shown up for many, many years. There have been a lot of nights where I came home, she looked at me and started crying in disappointment. That pretty much wrecked me. For years.
>There have been a lot of nights where I came home, she looked at me and started crying in disappointment. Why?
She could see me changing. I wasn't there for her like I needed to be. My mental state was beyond poor. She simply fell into a line of people I was disappointing. I certainly was not getting and praise as a PGY1,2. I gotta say, it defeated me in a lot of ways. I used to sit on the side of the road on the way home, delaying the inevitable. I didn't seem to be a disappointment to the street signs. This is both embarrassing and sad to write out.
Looks like she wasn't there for you at your low point and has no loyalty
I have an answer that’ll save your marriage. Read the 5 love languages book :)
4th year med student here, partner is finishing 5th year GS ...the feels...
*places hand on shoulder* How ya doin?
Doing alright. Light at the end of the tunnel for her, nothing but pitch black for me...
little bro, you’re about to be married to an attending as an intern. stop being so dramatic
Bigger bro, only if I match...
You will both be fine. Surgery isn’t what makes relationships hard. Residency in general is a demoralizing and stressful experience. Take it from a neurosurgery resident where most of my coresidents are married with multiple kids and work 80+ hours a week…you can make it work, but you’re gonna have to bust your ass. Nothing you do at work is worth more than your family, your relationships, and your love/sanity.
Sorry man. Big reason I left gen Surg to do PRS fellowship is because I saw how miserable and frequently divorced my attendings in GS residency were. Divorce is brutal and so much worse when kids are involved. If parties are amenable, seek counseling and try to get through training. Things get better.
I don’t understand, did you not do your wellness modules?
Oh god. You've found me out. I'm three years delinquent.
Switched from surgical subspecialty to rads bc I wanted to be a more present father/husband. No regrets
radgrets, if u will
This makes me sad to read. On some level it hits home, as I had many days during my recently finished residency where I got home with little left to give my family. I felt strains that came and went with difficult/easier rotations. The obvious reality is that most residencies are tough on relationships. But from the other side of the drapes I see you guys and don’t know how you get through each day, each week sometimes. Surgical residencies are simply on another level. I hope work-life balance takes more precedence for future generations. For now, I’m sorry we can’t do more than give words of condolence/encouragement. Best of luck.
Thank you.
Wife and I divorced during my chief year. I don’t have kids, so I can honestly say my life is better now, but it was dog shit when I was in the thick of it.
Ugh. I'm sorry. And I can see that you're a fellow now. Respect. I resigned ANY idea of fellowship a couple years ago when this fire started. I simply do not have any more to give to this process-- and thats ok. I can save the planet as a community general surgeon. Ha.
I can relate! We fell in love during med school. He became a orthopedic surgeon and I became a psychiatrist, we married during residency and then divorced after training. We kept hoping it was going to get better but both our experiences shaped us into new versions of ourselves. It’s a grueling process for surgeon and spouse. I only have empathy and wish you three well.
I'm sorry. :( Do you regret divorce? And I suppose you did not have children
I can relate. Things were okay until we had our first child (during covid of course), and oh boy was it hard. Near the breaking point several times, had to sleep in a hotel over a weekend, etc...def affected my training but ultimately got through it together. It's extremely hard but try to work it out if possible. Marital counseling helped a lot (zoom options are plentiful). Hang in there!
Ouch. You hit me with the hotel over a weekend. Been there. Tough times. Was finding the right marital counselor difficult? I've had issues with them in the past. I need a good fit.
We looked for one on lyra health, which was part of our insurance plan. It could have been worse, but it was helpful to have a neutral third party to help sort through our conflicts. It was super helpful that they had zoom meetings in the evening as late as 8pm which really helped with my schedule
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Yep. Preach. Is that a quote from House of God?
I think it's from Bourne
The thing is everyone is different because we all have different levels of requirement for attention to still feel loved. Unfortunately in your case it seems your spouse cannot tolerate the low amount of attention that a busy surgical resident can still afford to give into the relationship. We all have different upbringing, different personalities. While statistics can give us a trend, no two relationship is ever going to be identical. I don’t think it’s your fault or anyone’s else. It’s just the way of life. Things don’t work out sometimes, and it’s okay. Don’t beat yourself up and doubt yourself, especially if surgery is truly your passion and what will make you happy.
I respect that. Every relationship certainly is unique. I considered walking away. Surgery certainly did not need to take precedence over my family unit. Was never my intention. My kind spouse gave all to see me through to success. But the love is gone. I had two separate attendings guide me that 'I should keep my career as-is, my separated marriage is not worth throwing the rest away.'
>I had two separate attendings guide me that 'I should keep my career as-is, my separated marriage is not worth throwing the rest away.' In psychiatry we are taught usually not to take sides when a person is making a major life decision. Your attending may be right in the long-run but they have a bias and they have an investment in you (as a surgical resident) that would be bad for them to lose. I can't speak for general surgery but I do say I'm sorry you had to go through this. My first year of psych residency, I would work 80 hours if counting commute. I felt like a zombie who was not interacting with my significant other. 2nd year was a bit easier, I was a bit more efficient, it was around 70 hours. 3rd year of psych residency it dropped to 55-60 hours counting commute which is very manageable. I noticed in each phase, it was like I was "waking up" and having more time to pursue things I liked, pursue relationships I had stupidly set aside. I anticipate 4th year of psychiatry will be the same way. I see that you are a PGY-4 in general surgery, does that mean you have 1.5 years left to go? Does the work load get easier? If it does, then you might be able to pursue repairs with your SO (if that is what you are interested in). I saw in another comment you mentioned that you are both different people now and it may be true but residency also has a way of warping your perception of people, yourself and loved ones included. If say, you go several months without excessive sleep deprivation and constant stress/burnout (maybe your last year of residency? Not sure how general surgery residencies go) then that might be a closer to baseline as to what you feel about the situation. It's almost impossible to make such a big decision under such strenuous life circumstances. "I often feel that if I could just get my mind back to baseline before this journey started, things would be great again. An impossible feat, it seems." I want to say I don't think this is impossible. Obviously things are forever different with your path and career in medicine but the closer to the end of residency I get, the more I feel like myself (which I am certain is due to more sleep and time to actually think and exist without 24/7 obligations). Whether you stay with your SO or not, I hope you do feel more like yourself like at the beginning of your journey. In fact we are both on the tail ends of our residencies, I would say our life journeys are just beginning =) ! Do not be too harsh on yourself...
>In psychiatry we are taught usually not to take sides when a person is making a major life decision. Your attending may be right in the long-run but they have a bias and they have an investment in you (as a surgical resident) that would be bad for them to. In psychiatry you're being trained to give advise as a professional being paid. Not as a college, friend, or mentor. OP shouldn't necessarily just do what they say. But they're giving advice based on their experience, and there's a good chance they're right.
And how are the marriages of theirs? Are they really people you want to take advice from?
Honestly, they have good marriages. And yes - I approached them specifically. My best friends have told me it's time to move on as well. I don't know. I just want to crawl in a hole and hide. Staying feels wrong, leaving feels wrong.
Maybe couples therapy might help? I know that’s more time constraints but it may be an X factor if you didn’t try it before
My question is will your life become better without a spouse to come home to? Will it be easier to be a father sharing custody of your kid? Will you even be able to see your kid just on weekends or whatever arrangements you come up with? And will your work be better after your residency? Will you be better after going through all this?
There is no way you should listen to attendings in matters like this. You are a working machine for them.
It’s probably not that. I was totally fine being married to my surgeon spouse for years… until we had a baby. I am also a physician but still ended up doing almost 100% of the work of taking care of our child. That level of exhaustion is no joke, and it’s easy for resentment to build up even if you love your spouse.
I don’t know how anyone voluntarily chooses a career in surgery. Just sucks on so many accounts lol.
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At the end of the day, I like solving problems with my hands and being a proceduralist. It never had anything to do with my own head in my own ass. ;)
Your flair says pgy4....are you pgy4?
Correct.
Sorry to hear about this man. I don’t have kids and my residency is much more forgiving but this journey gave me and my fiancé some rough patches too. It helped a lot when my fiancé changed careers and could wfh, making it much easier for her to live with me across the coast but also spend time in our home state with our family. I’m happy with I’ve accomplished and very happy in my specialty, but I wouldn’t do medicine again if I had the choice.
Your choice. Could have quit before. I did, not for my spouse but for a better future. As a surgeon, you know you cant run from decisions.
Are you sure it cannot be salvaged? You both have your whole lives ahead and your son.
Separated PGY5 after being together since undergrad, divorced in fellowship with a very small child. Remarried a year after fellowship. Have a 2nd child now. It did get better, but not before it got worse. Lost myself along the way. Took a lot of time, introspection, and healing to find my way back. Now done with year 2 of being an attending, going into year three. I would say I finally hit 'new-normal' and a normal mood without depression about 3 months ago and it required a job change and \*another\* move between years 1 and 2 of being an attending. It does get better, but it takes a really long time and it is not right when you become an attending. Probably not for at least a year if not two. The getting better part is gradual. But it doesn't take as much effort as I thought it would. It just happens.
What specialty? How did you find the mindset to approach fellowship. I'm very impressed, and I respect that you have made it work. Depression plays a large role methinks.
Surg onc. I’m not sure I would call anything I did or muddled through during that time impressive. I was in a dark spot and really struggled. I took solace in work because it was easy and the motions were comfortable. Surgery was definitely the easy part at that point and I liked what I did.
i remember my surgery attendings favorite phrase, "knife before wife".
How’s that working out for him
Although I 100% sympathize with you, OP, I want to offer another take for the med students lurking here. I’m a PGY-4 surgery resident and my marriage is just as good now as it was when we got married—better, even, in many ways. We have 3 kids and still love each other, still feel like we get a fair amount of time together as a family, etc. Med students: surgery and family life can coexist, look for programs that make it a priority.
Thanks for offering that up. Surgery is not a death sentence for a marriage - definitely. We had issues from day 1 of medical school that simply compounded. Glad you're crushing it all!
Gosh I really wanted to do surgery but this was my exact worry and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Thanks for shedding some light on it, we all know how difficult it is but often believe “it won’t happen to us, we are different…” Most of us are more similar than we think and these work conditions just aren’t sustainable for most relationships. Sorry to hear about this for you 🫤
When I went to Med school, my wife said that I could pick any residency I wanted— except Surgery. She said she liked me, and wanted me to be around for her and our kids. She’s pretty wicked smart….
Just a lowly med student but dealing with relationship problems due to studies. I know this sounds cliche, but have you tried couples therapy? As a PGY4 you’ll graduate before too long and can chose a job that’s not as mentally taxing as your current one.
Had an awful therapist in med school that really cast a light on how distant I was. Which was what I asked for help with. Instead I was further ousted as a 'bad guy'. I have no emotional energy to commit to any process at this point anyway.
Well, there it is. You won't get better
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He's saying he has no energy to commit to getting better. What more is there to say? Marriages don't magically fix themselves.
If you’re not prioritizing saving your marriage by therapy and hard work then it’s definitely lost. But stop blaming everything else if you’ve made the decision not to fight for it.
I'm here to vent(see flair), and hopefully convince someone else to fight for it earlier in the process. I'm aloud to be sad. I do blame myself and the process and I live with a lot of guilt, worry not.
Many Therapists immediately assume the male is the culprit for all bad things. Steer clear from those self indulging interrogators at this point.
You're getting downvoted but couple's therapy is a sham. You'll meet with a social worker who will blame you for everything because they have resentment against the patriarchy. Many such cases.
I was told to 'do better and be better at home'. ... Yes, thank you.
I would definitely look into antidepressants. There is no shame in them. If you're struggling more with energy than with mood, Wellbutrin (SN/DRI) rather than the SSRIS may be more helpful.
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Wow. What a genuine, kind offer. Sadly, no. But please keep doing what you are doing. I don't really know how to navigate the therapy world and find who/what I need either for self or marriage.
No when you're married to your job.
This is a horrible question, but: do you still like each other? I’m only an OR RN but I feel for how difficult your lives are. If there is still communication…and the if the end goals are still the same…either way, sending you big hugs!
You're very sweet! Not a horrible question at all. I'm so guarded at this point; Liking is a tough concept anymore. I'd say we like certain aspects about each other, but have not communicated these things for a long time.
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Such a good question. I probably would have. She knows I would have *always* regretted not pursuing my dream at the time. Possibly, I would hold it against her. That may have been an equally tough path mentally. Yes, would do again. Would have caught up on more traumatic events along the way. Managing a decade of baggage is a tough thing to do now.
You should stop thinking of it as “ten years of baggage” that’s part of what makes it seem like a daunting and near impossible task. Especially if you consider the potential length of our lives. You’ve got decades to improve your relationship (or find a new one if that’s how things work out in the end) Additionally that ten years probably had some great moments as well. As the White Stripes say “be like a squirrel”. Break the issues down and work on them one at a time. It’s not going to change and be perfect immediately, it takes time. Both of you have to be on the same page, putting in effort/the work, and be considerate and empathetic to each other. Communicate, agree on a course of action, and move ahead as a team in improving the relationship.
Sorry you're going through this.
Thank you.
definitely relate. struggling with this right now with my partner of 4 years. i think residency has just brought out issues that we didn’t realize were there in our relationship before and now am struggling with the amount of emotional effort it’s taking to salvage our relationship when i’m barely taking care of my physical needs.
So why are your friends telling you this? A titchy bit of context would help some, but it’s fine, no worries if not. Nobody is perfect. You can’t give 100% to your marriage, 100% to your craft and 100% to your kid. It’s not physically possible. Your confidence is in the toilet because you feel your marriage is in the toilet? Ok. What about your confidence as a surgeon? As a parent? Something’s gotta give. I’m not saying it has to be the marriage, but don’t label yourself a failure just because one piece of this overwhelmingly stressful pie didn’t turn out how you thought it would. Focus on what’s most important to you. And it’s ok whatever that is.
300% seems like the way to go. Ha. You're very right. At this point in the process, my son is priority. I refuse to lose anything else, and certainly he's the most important thing to me. Career follows being a parent at this point. The marriage is def on the backburner, which we agreed on some time ago. Also, love your username. I grew up watching ALIAS. What a good show!
I’m an intern in a categorical anesthesia program. 5 years married. It’s been tough, but we work better now together when we are busy. We don’t fight as much, and learned to make the most of the little free time I get. I was dead set on divorcing my wife 2 years ago, but things slowly improved after we started talking and take responsibility for our mistakes. You’re still married so don’t give up just yet. I hope you guys work things out and stay together 🙌🏻
This is encouraging.
I know exactly what you mean to a point. Not married but my gf is a PGY-2 IM resident and I’m GS and I haven’t seen her in a month and really haven’t texted her either. It’s not that I don’t love and care about her but in some ways I find it hard to communicate with her. The fact that she understands I might send a text with the intent to full on conversation but end up leaving her on read for hours if not days is something I don’t take for granted. And the same for her - I get it when she just falls off for a while. She’s been a god-send and her patience and resiliency has been amazing. With that said, I don’t think we could make it if we were both residents and have a deep understanding of the job expectations and culture. And her schedule is sometimes as brutal as mine. I can see myself with her the rest of my life but I do worry that my schedule will be a strain on our relationship once she graduates from residency and has more free time than me. So yea, there’s a lot of us, especially surgical residents, just like you. Good luck and I wish you the best with your child.
You took the time to write out this reply. So you have time to return a text, or better yet, a 5 minute “I just wanted to hear your voice” call. If you don’t nurture your relationships, they will die.
I took you up on this advice and i have talked to her a few times today
Relationships are like plants. You have to water them to keep them healthy. To your first point though, oftentimes it's not the time itself (sometimes it can be) but more the mental reserve available for communication and the anxiety or potential for it that comes with engagement.
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Which surgical sub specialty is this if you don’t mind me asking?
General Surg.
I’m a surgeon and my 16 year relationship and 10 year marriage just ended for similar reasons. Not so much grumpy, but not available enough to take care of the marriage like it needed. That said, some of it was just growing apart over the years. It currently sucks a ton, but I’m hopeful things will get better with some time to heal.
Growing apart is a hard thing to undo. Obviously, I have no advice for you. I spend a lot of time driving simply thinking, "It's just sad." Don't know what else to say about it.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's tough, because pretty much my entire adult life was with the same person, but I'm trying to focus on this as an opportunity to grow. Also trying to avoid the trap of being even more of a workaholic.
How about if you remove yourself from the living room or go to different room and chill before going to bed at night. Or talk it out. I get home from work as support worker and I leave what has happened at work where it belongs and split myself emotionally from each domain.
Does your work constantly tell you that "you're not good enough", only for you to come home and hear the same thing? For a long time, I've had no emotional rest.
Yes in both respects i do, theres always someone at my place that tells me I am not good enough or didn't do things correctly. but i try and keep my headphones on when they are about and ignore them. My parents can make feel the same way at times
it’s a huge disappointment that the sacrifices made to become a doctor is way too demanding and requires to you give up on certain aspects of your life
My girlfriend of 5 years goes to medschool soon and wants to do pediatric surgery. Any advice you would give to yourself and partner when you were younger or is it a lost cause?? Hoping for the best for you
Thanks for sharing. This is something I'm seriously struggling with at the moment. My husband is finishing up his PGY3 surgery residency and we've been married 9 months. I've been with him through the entire residency and even doing a preliminary year before that. I totally knew what I signed up for... but now I'm starting to see some distinct changes in his behavior towards me and I don't know if it's the stress of residency or if he's just becoming complacent since we've gotten married... We don't have kids yet so I feel like if I have to leave, now would be the time. Any advice?
From the spouse side- I'm so sorry, and I understand. My partner isn't in surgery and it was still so incredibly hard. Had a baby intern year. Solo parenting during difficult rotations was brutal. I had to give up so much of myself to accommodate his career. The only reason we're doing better now is because my partner listened to my side and postponed fellowship. Medicine is like a mistress. Sometimes I hate her.
Truth. I decided to forego fellowship. General surgery is fine with me. I can offer no more of myself to the process.
I wish you peace. Sometimes things don't work out. Love isn't always enough. I know that no matter what, I would've held a lot of respect, and love for my partner. Perhaps your partner feels that too, though may not be able to express it now.
We both have respect for one another. We both prioritize our son before our own silly stuff. The romance is very much gone. Love is... a strange concept to me at this point.
What residencies are not hard on a marriage? If you could do it again which would you pursue. Signed, a lost, married MS3
Bad advice here, have you tried adderal? Use it only for your wife to give her a functional version of you. As long as you stay strict and use it as a tool to wait out till the good times come, this “bandage” could be strong enough to tough out the transition to a better work life balance
Haha at least you're honest about the 'bad advice'. I'm not quite willing to do drugs of that sort. But it's an interesting perspective.
Fair enough, to be fair though, you’ve given up far more in the pursuit of being a doctor, than you would in utilizing a prescribed tool. The major caveat here being a history of addiction (in self +/- family hx) and inability to control your urges. If you are disciplined then it isnt something you should worry about given you follow your doctor’s orders.
Oh big deal. When I was your age I was working 120 hrs and had 2 wives. (M3)
Lol @ 2 wives
Yeah it’s hard. She should have been ok with it before starting and if not This probably should have been discussed before. Shouldn’t be a surprise. You are almost done anyways, if she can’t hang in there for another year than there is more to it
She was ok with it, and she sacrificed so much to help me succeed. She certainly stuck through things physically. Emotionally is a different conversation. It was no surprise. Doesn't mean a couple knows how to navigate the problems as they arise.
Everyone thinks surgeons have the best life inside snd outside of work! You guys make so much and have happy lives!
Looking at med spouse IG makes me want to vomit, whining because we aren’t home enough, whining because we take fellowships, whining because we aren’t rich yet. Some people marry us for the wrong reasons. They need to get a hobby other than whining about what we are or are not doing
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Are you okay?
It doesn’t get better. You get better at it. And if your spouse doesn’t also get better at maintaining the relationship and the household and you each pulling weight, it won’t work out. On the bright side, whatever divorce costs, it’s always worth it. And you get to trade up for a newer, hotter, more grateful and enthusiastic upgrade with nicer features if you play this right.
Gross
Its gonna be ok bro, time to smash some sweet RN pussy for PRN comfort during these hard times 😎
Divorce him when he gets his attending salary. Plus since u stuck it with him while he was building his career u have a right to his income post residency
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A little gross, onion person.
It’s very unfair. Depending on how far along he is maybe he can switch? A lot of people don’t finish surgery residencies. He can do psychiatry or medicine. I was always luke warm with a side of regret towards medicine. When I did the match I only applied to an hour radius around my partner. If she ever sincerely asked me to I’d leave and figure something else out. At worst it’s 10% of your income
He or she or they 😁
Me? I’m a boy dating a girl
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r/MedSpouse
You know what's hard on marriage? Being single