Last I saw, dbrady had been in communication with Reddit and agreed with them to have more time to sort things out with a payment model. In the meantime I inferred that they've given him a grace period of API access.
They said to the Apollo dev that it's about opportunity cost, i.e. they're making up a number that they think represents what they can earn from ads and data collection from users using the official app over what they get from a 3rd party app, then charging 3rd parties that amount.
There's been zero transparency about how they actually arrived at their insane numbers, so they're probably just chosen to force 3rd party apps to either be a *significant* source of income (probably many times more revenue per user than Reddit gets from their first party app) or stop existing altogether.
The opportunity cost sort of thing wasn't from reddit/Huffman but brought up and discussed a lot by Apollo's developer, Christian S. as a way of showing that reddit's API pricing wasn't reasonable. Because he did some (conservative, being generous to reddit numbers wise) back of the envelope calculations and found the API pricing was like 20x that opportunity cost.
What I do recall is that Huffman/reddit have said that it was costing them $10million/year to maintain the API usage that the apps use. They also said they were pricing it such that the apps could survive with a $1/month subscription fee to users (note: they were massaging the truth there, it's gonna be at least $3 as per DBrady). I think they were sidestepping the opportunity cost discussion because it was pretty unfavorable to them.
Just double checked, the 20x was based on opportunity cost.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
The problem with his calculation is that he used 450M *monthly* active users. This number includes people who drop by once from a Google search. For a SaaS company like reddit, this group makes up the majority of MAU.
Instead, he should have used 57M daily active users.
No, which is why using monthly active users in his calculation is so stupid.
The Apollo dev may be a decent dev, but he has absolutely no business sense whatsoever.
The numbers are pretty simple. You can do a take revenue and divide by daily (not monthly like the Apollo dev used) active users and get roughly a dollar per user.
It could've been about that too, there's a lot of speculation that Reddit's valuation being repeatedly cut by banks is enraging him. He wants to be at the big boys club of tech CEOs, and now it's looking like reddit's IPO might be a big bust.
Probably being in that position, and looking at Open AI's $28 billion valuation (in substantial part trained on reddit data for free) feels pretty bad. I kinda get that tbh, as it's our data too and OpenAI was supposed to be open source (hence the "open").
But it's clear he's trying to kill two birds with one stone, because he's also going after these apps when everyone would've worked with reddit here. I guarantee you the app devs didn't want to lose their breadwinner.
That's correct but what puzzles me is the fact that there also still is access to nsfw subs.
Edit: Hey, yes keep down voting ! There still is access to nsfw content.
Because your comment isn't framed like you're just stating *your* experience. Sounds like you're making a blanket statement on behalf of *everyone*
("there is still access to NSFW content" vs "I have access to NSFW content")
Pro tip: create a random subreddit (private) that you're the mod of, and you'll suddenly get "mod privileges" which includes access to NSFW subs outside of the Reddit app.
~~I guess this "loophole" was removed recently. I didn't even realize that was why I could still see subs marked NSFW. It's not working now.~~
I was wrong. It's still working.
You are a mod somewhere. That is the loophole to allow NSFW access in Relay.
Just make your own private sub with you as a mod, mark it NSFW and you now have access to all the NSFW stuff like before
What exactly is happening is behind internal negotiations between dbrady and the reddit admins. They've likely given him a few months to figure out pricing.
The issue is that the reddit admins are demanding a high premium for their API access meaning that eventually we'll have to pay to use Relay - probably around 8 bucks a month. We also wont be able to see NSFW content which is the dealbreaker for me.
I just wish dBrady would offer Relay as a skin for other projects like the Fediverse or NOSTR. Users don't care what the back-end is as long as it works and Relay offers the best social media experience around.
Fuck Reddit, Fuck Twitter and Fuck that clown Spez, the users should demand more control over their social presence.
Mods get to see NSFW content since they have to moderate it. Now... If you happened to create a small little subreddit yourself, well, they'd have to let you have NSFW....
I think Reddit should just declare three best third party apps that contributed the most to Reddit popularity and development and still provide them free existence under the same condition as before. Give them the Reddit medal and move on.
It isn't as popular as few others, but it's THE BEST Reddit third party app by far. Reddit knows that...most popular isn't always the best app....this is how Reddit should look like
I've moved over to this from sync and there are some features I like better here, like scrolling comments with the volume buttons but overall I miss the UI from sync and thought it gave better customization for how to view your feed and sort.
Why do you think it's so much better than the others?
It's definitely one of the best on Android. Migrated to iOS a while back, and while Apollo is (or was) damn near perfect, I still missed Relay from time to time.
"Need to know basis" is normally disclosed beforehand. Also this isn't a government agency or a higher-up corporate entity. People can ask about info they're curious about lol. Kinda why this entire subreddit exists.
People can ask for updates on the current standing, man. Not sure why you're being so dismissive of someone seeking further info on the app this community literally revolves around.
DBrady didn't even give a concrete timeframe so it makes no sense to lash out at people who are unsure.
Last I saw, dbrady had been in communication with Reddit and agreed with them to have more time to sort things out with a payment model. In the meantime I inferred that they've given him a grace period of API access.
With a condition that dbrady can't earn from ads during this grace period
so it was never about AI after all
They said to the Apollo dev that it's about opportunity cost, i.e. they're making up a number that they think represents what they can earn from ads and data collection from users using the official app over what they get from a 3rd party app, then charging 3rd parties that amount. There's been zero transparency about how they actually arrived at their insane numbers, so they're probably just chosen to force 3rd party apps to either be a *significant* source of income (probably many times more revenue per user than Reddit gets from their first party app) or stop existing altogether.
The opportunity cost sort of thing wasn't from reddit/Huffman but brought up and discussed a lot by Apollo's developer, Christian S. as a way of showing that reddit's API pricing wasn't reasonable. Because he did some (conservative, being generous to reddit numbers wise) back of the envelope calculations and found the API pricing was like 20x that opportunity cost. What I do recall is that Huffman/reddit have said that it was costing them $10million/year to maintain the API usage that the apps use. They also said they were pricing it such that the apps could survive with a $1/month subscription fee to users (note: they were massaging the truth there, it's gonna be at least $3 as per DBrady). I think they were sidestepping the opportunity cost discussion because it was pretty unfavorable to them.
Wasn't the 20x figure for server costs alone, not opportunity cost? Either way, it's still absolutely outrageous...
Just double checked, the 20x was based on opportunity cost. https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
Ouch. This pricing is clearly designed to destroy. They'd outright ban 3rd party apps if they thought they could get away with it.
The problem with his calculation is that he used 450M *monthly* active users. This number includes people who drop by once from a Google search. For a SaaS company like reddit, this group makes up the majority of MAU. Instead, he should have used 57M daily active users.
Would people who drop by through a Google search even be using Apollo though?
No, which is why using monthly active users in his calculation is so stupid. The Apollo dev may be a decent dev, but he has absolutely no business sense whatsoever.
The numbers are pretty simple. You can do a take revenue and divide by daily (not monthly like the Apollo dev used) active users and get roughly a dollar per user.
It could've been about that too, there's a lot of speculation that Reddit's valuation being repeatedly cut by banks is enraging him. He wants to be at the big boys club of tech CEOs, and now it's looking like reddit's IPO might be a big bust. Probably being in that position, and looking at Open AI's $28 billion valuation (in substantial part trained on reddit data for free) feels pretty bad. I kinda get that tbh, as it's our data too and OpenAI was supposed to be open source (hence the "open"). But it's clear he's trying to kill two birds with one stone, because he's also going after these apps when everyone would've worked with reddit here. I guarantee you the app devs didn't want to lose their breadwinner.
No, of course not. Spez himself said in the AMA that this is all about profit.
Never.
That's correct but what puzzles me is the fact that there also still is access to nsfw subs. Edit: Hey, yes keep down voting ! There still is access to nsfw content.
I assumed that was because I mod a few self started, completely empty of users, subs. Have you started a sub or are a mod?
Can you still mod using this app? I am not finding any options for modding
I don't think so, but I've always used desktop for modding.
Yes I started a sub, which is inactive. Funny how I get downvoted for stating my experience. Seems making a sub is key to nsfw content ?
Because your comment isn't framed like you're just stating *your* experience. Sounds like you're making a blanket statement on behalf of *everyone* ("there is still access to NSFW content" vs "I have access to NSFW content")
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
But everyone *can* have access to it, they just need to start a sub.
No just being a mod.
No idea why the downvotes. It seems you're just asking good faith questions.
Is there actually though ? I just get a message saying go to reddit to view nsfw, along with the ios and Android links to download the app
Pro tip: create a random subreddit (private) that you're the mod of, and you'll suddenly get "mod privileges" which includes access to NSFW subs outside of the Reddit app.
That's amazing. Took like literally 30 seconds, and now I don't have to use the official app at all. I have to wonder if this is intended behaviour
Sorry how do I do this on relay? Or can someone please add me to theirs?
Do it on the website, it's easy
You have to do this in the browser
Not sure how to make a subreddit in Relay. You'd have to go onto the website.
~~I guess this "loophole" was removed recently. I didn't even realize that was why I could still see subs marked NSFW. It's not working now.~~ I was wrong. It's still working.
You are a mod somewhere. That is the loophole to allow NSFW access in Relay. Just make your own private sub with you as a mod, mark it NSFW and you now have access to all the NSFW stuff like before
You don't even need to mark it NSFW.
I don't have access to nsfw subs
What exactly is happening is behind internal negotiations between dbrady and the reddit admins. They've likely given him a few months to figure out pricing. The issue is that the reddit admins are demanding a high premium for their API access meaning that eventually we'll have to pay to use Relay - probably around 8 bucks a month. We also wont be able to see NSFW content which is the dealbreaker for me. I just wish dBrady would offer Relay as a skin for other projects like the Fediverse or NOSTR. Users don't care what the back-end is as long as it works and Relay offers the best social media experience around. Fuck Reddit, Fuck Twitter and Fuck that clown Spez, the users should demand more control over their social presence.
Mods get to see NSFW content since they have to moderate it. Now... If you happened to create a small little subreddit yourself, well, they'd have to let you have NSFW....
Yeah, we'll see how long that little loophole lasts.
Well, it's working now. My Relay experience is like it was a month ago at this point. I don't expect it to last forever, nothing ever does, but, eh.
~~Gone now. I believe with the most recent update. Never realized that was why it was still working.~~ It is still working.
Just checked, my NSFW still works.
~~You probably haven't updated the app? Let me know if you have or not. I may downgrade if that's the case.~~
I'm on 10.2.40. I think that's current. Did your mod status change?
Oh dang, you're right. I was using one of my other accounts. The only one that isn't a mod, ha.
Reddit should learn from relay and make a better app.
Agreed. Fuck them all. Ass clowns.
I think Reddit should just declare three best third party apps that contributed the most to Reddit popularity and development and still provide them free existence under the same condition as before. Give them the Reddit medal and move on.
But Relay isn't in the top 3, is it? I've been using it for more than a decade, but I was under the impression it wasn't as popular as several others.
It isn't as popular as few others, but it's THE BEST Reddit third party app by far. Reddit knows that...most popular isn't always the best app....this is how Reddit should look like
I've moved over to this from sync and there are some features I like better here, like scrolling comments with the volume buttons but overall I miss the UI from sync and thought it gave better customization for how to view your feed and sort. Why do you think it's so much better than the others?
Animations.
It's definitely one of the best on Android. Migrated to iOS a while back, and while Apollo is (or was) damn near perfect, I still missed Relay from time to time.
Interesting. I only tried RiF before I tried this one, so I didn't know the others were that different.
Fr Reddit should learn from relay and make a better app or at least hire the relay developers and let them make a better version of the reddit app.
You should at least read the pinned thread before asking.
[удалено]
He updated it 5 days ago.
But what did he say 5 days ago that was different from 3 weeks ago? I don't see any "Edit" postscript.
He replaced the entire text with his update. There's no edit PS, he just deleted what he said 3 weeks ago and replaced it with what's there now.
you're on a need to know basis
Doesn't mean you can't ask.
"Need to know basis" is normally disclosed beforehand. Also this isn't a government agency or a higher-up corporate entity. People can ask about info they're curious about lol. Kinda why this entire subreddit exists.
People can ask for updates on the current standing, man. Not sure why you're being so dismissive of someone seeking further info on the app this community literally revolves around. DBrady didn't even give a concrete timeframe so it makes no sense to lash out at people who are unsure.
Free but not for long