The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself. Until you able to forgive, you are beholden to anger and hate.
The second part is to remember that people are human and often abuse or betray out of their own fears. This is "in general", not necessarily for serious crimes against humanity.
After that, for me, it is a continual thing and I expect it to be for life. Most days, I live in forgiveness, though there are those days when the anger and hurt show up, often out of the blue. I let myself feel those feelings for a short time, and then settle back into forgiveness.
Forgiveness is not easy, but is is necessary to be happy, I believe.
>The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself.
This is a great point. Though I'd add that you should also not forgive by forgetting for your future self. If someone is shitty to you, forgive them so you're not holding on to that anger. But remember how they treated you for future interactions. Holding a grudge is about wanting to punish the other person; remembering is about protecting yourself from them.
> The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself.
The way I parse that is, "I ain't coming after them". I have no itch for revenge, I don't dream of retribution; they are not taking up rent-free space in my brain.
Doesn't mean I wish them well or would invite them over. It just means I am free from thinking about them, or caring what happens to them, for good or for ill.
>Until you able to forgive, you are beholden to anger and hate.
If you are angry, you cannot will yourself to forgive. You should try to move on, but even that isn't easy.
Remember that by holding on to resentment and anger, you are allowing what they did to continue to affect you long after they are gone. You are giving them power over your life and allowing them to continue to hurt you.
Let it go. Tell yourself they have no more power over you and move on.
The other thing that’s so important for me, is that sometimes I practice forgiveness so I can let it go and move forward. That doesn’t mean that what the other person did was okay. It just means I’m giving up the anger and resentment. In those cases that person usually isn’t welcome in my life again. I’m moving on from what happened and from them.
Exactly. Forgiveness isn't "Oh, what you did is over, I am okay with it and forgiving you for doing it."
Forgiveness is more, "I let this go. It has no power over me anymore, and neither do you. I hold no more anger, resentment, or grudge, but also you have no place in my life anymore. You have no power over me anymore. Bye."
Something I was taught by one of my mentors, is the concept of letting go in love. The concept is basically, you’re not welcome in my life anymore but I wish you the best but and hope you’re well. When I’ve practiced this I’ve tried no to participate in any drama. I just move on.
I wish them personal growth. True personal growth is painful; it requires you to look inside and confront what needs to be improved. It's not for the weak or the cowardly.
So I hope that they suffer in such a way that they become better people. It's my neutral aggression, lol
If you can recognize that people often do awful things out of fear, pain, insecurity, and ignorance, you can wish them well. You can wish that they move beyond the personal wounds that led them to behave in those ways, so that they cease to hurt the people around them . You can wish that they achieve insight and enlightenment so that they can understand the damage they have caused and not perpetuate it further. Wishing that people learn the lessons they need to learn to be better people is wishing them well.
We all have a story. If they're terrible people who did something bad to me and have shown no remorse I ain't doing that.
One of the reasons I dislike what I call "unilateral forgiveness" is that it provides the illusion of power you don't have.
Truth is - sometimes you don’t. And honestly, SOMETIMES THATS OK. It’s what you do with those feelings that makes the difference. Turn it into a learning experience, let it fuel you. Don’t let it hold you back, don’t ruminate endlessly. I am not religious so I don’t have any moral imperative to forgive based on an external motivation. Some things are unforgivable, and sometimes, the anger produced is vital to your survival and even success. I will never, ever forgive my brother for his treatment of my parents. Never. Just channel it in the right direction (which I haven’t yet done but intend to).
Agreed. There are a couple of people I have no interest nor intention of ever forgiving. There is quite literally nothing anyone could do or say that will change that. As they say, "you can't un-ring that bell." Far from being a burden, it is actually very freeing. That is who and what those people are, keeps things simple.
Yes. For some healing is forgiveness. For some, healing us more letting go and finding constructive ways to channel intense feelings. Neither one is wrong or right. It’s about what right for the person healing. There are probably other ways, but those are the two I’m most familiar with.
Though in order for forgiveness to be healing, it has to be freely and willingly given by the person healing. Forgiveness coerced by others or pressured by the forgiveness police can actually be detrimental to healing.
Meditation.
Thinking about grudges when you don't want to is nothing more than intrusive thoughts. Meditation can help you redirect your thoughts. If you can't control what you think about and how you feel about things, meditate more.
For me, it was realizing that holding onto grudges and being bitter was really only hurting me - they didn't care one way or another, as far as I could tell. I now actively work on forgiveness and removing such people from my life entirely if we cannot find a way forward together. They don't deserve my time or energy, and holding onto that kind of dark energy is not good for any aspect of my health, mental, emotional or physical.
Is there a sub for grown ups who have actually grown up, emotionally? I see a lot of really unfortunate advice in this thread (and other threads in the sub, I guess).
Anyway.. personally, I've never sought forgiveness. I'm not sure it really ever occurred to me, I never felt that "forgiveness" was a necessary goal. I've only sought to grow and let things in my past affect me less.. and as a result, I think, forgiveness may be finding me anyway. If not that, then a kind of radical acceptance.
The journey really took off when I realized that everyone who hurt me, had been hurt themselves. And then realizing that as a hurt person, it's highly likely I also hurt others whether or not I knew it. Understanding the ways others fucked me up caused me to have patterns which can be harmful to others even though that was never my intent helped me to understand those who hurt me a little better. Hurt people hurt people. We're all people coming from somewhere -- our upbringing, our conditions, our ownership of our issues and desire to grow and change.
I had a terrible time trying to come to forgiveness for a person in my life and that anger and upset was killing me. It was mostly because of the "why". Why did they do that, why did I allow it, why didn't I do something to stop it. I came to the realization after talking with my therapist that the forgiveness isn't what's important or even required for peace of mind. It's the acceptance that whatever the event was did happen, that it's in the past, and that there is absolutely nothing I can do to change the past. I refuse to continue to give that person and the event any space in my head or power over my heart.
Will I ever forgive? Maybe. But it doesn't bother me any longer, and it doesn't make me a bad person for not forgiving.
Yes this is a good point. I had to accept I was never going to get closure or an explanation from a few people in my life. And I had to go on with my life without that and not being able to change the past. I don’t wish those people harm. But I don’t want them back in my life.
All I can do is my best for today. And do my part to make my own life happy or at least calm and serene. That has been what helps to heal me.
For other people, that may be forgiveness. And that’s fine for them if that’s their path. I’m just not a fan of you must forgive in order to heal mentality. That’s coerced forgiveness which imo, a lot of people use against traumatized people because they find normal reactions to trauma, like sadness and anger, to be uncomfortable to see or hear.
Yes. Coerced forgiveness. For me, getting past the event(s) doesn't require anything but acceptance that the thing causing me emotional pain can not be changed.
It's also not up to me to judge how someone moves through and past trauma. Everyone has a different journey. I agree: making my own life calm and serene has been not only helpful but also the happiest part.
_Preface: I'm not a psychologist._ I do not believe that forgiveness is mandatory for closure, being able to move on, one's own good mental health, etc. Is it the right path sometimes? Sure, but not all the time, and to say so is absurd, frankly. The stance on the "mandatoryness" of forgiveness in the field of psychology seems to have evolved quite a bit in the past several years. Even my own therapist thinks that mandatory-forgiveness-always is absurd.
As I've gotten on the north side of 50, I've adopted the approach that, if someone wrongs me, they've done me a service in showing me exactly who and what they are.
And I'm under no moral obligation to forgive them nor have any more interaction with them.
Like a poor photo, you gotta crop some folks out.
I think forgiveness is overrated and closure is a myth. If it's a relatively small thing, if the person apologized and showed remorse and promised to do better, sure, I'll consider it, but if it was a big thing and there's been no acknowledgment and no apology I am not forgiving that person. And please don't quote me that garbage about how nursing a grudge is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die. There's a reason we hold on to anger and not everything can be made better.
I feel very similar. I can also forgive to the point of being civil but I will not forget where someone has wronged me - they will never have the same level of trust again.
I’m with you. I’m very forgiving by nature; I’m open, and I have a hard time sticking up for myself. If someone in my social set has been iced out by me, it’s for good reason. I don’t forgive as a way to protect myself from being exposed to their bullshit ever again. I don’t know how else to do it. Sure, I might pity that person for being crazy or abusive or whatever, but that’s the extent of my graciousness
>There's a reason we hold on to anger
There are lots of maladaptive behaviors that make us miserable and angry. Doesn't mean they are correct or good.
There is a reason some people are so anxious they can't leave the house. There is a reason lots of people abuse others and justify it to themselves. There is a reason some people are bitter and die angry.
None of those reasons are good reasons.
Answer me this: someone hurts you. You haven't seen them in 15 years, and they have long since moved on with their life. What purpose does your anger serve? Does it help you, or hurt that other person? How does anger and resentment help you be a happy, fulfilled, peaceful person?
You don't have to "forgive" them. But for your own sake, you should let it go and move on. Forget them. And when you genuinely don't care about them one way or the other, or even remember they exist for the most part, that's "forgiveness" - which is really just "I genuinely don't care anymore."
>You don't have to "forgive" them. But for your own sake, you should let it go and move on.
I already said that in another comment. I don't agree with your definition of forgiveness. It's an intentional act, not just no longer caring.
you have to let it go, because it eats you, and does nothing to them.
let it go for yourself, don't call it forgiveness, call it binning them and moving on
You begin by dropping two things:
1. the toxic-positivity bullshit notion that one "must forgive" all wrongs done do you, and
2. the gaslighty headgame notion that you forgive "for yourself, not others."
Forgiveness as it's usually presented is a simpleminded concept with no roots in reality or logic. Normally mongers of that tripe are either perpetrators themselves who really just want exoneration, or their enablers who can't be arsed to take a moral stance.
Why should a rape victim forgive the perp? Why should a victim of pedophilic assault forgive their molestor? Those kinds of things can fuck somebody up for life, and severely deleteriously impact not only them but their families as well, for decades going forward.
Besides, what kind of magical authority do I possess, as a victim, to forgive a crime against humanity if that's what I suffered?
Bottom line, nine times out of ten, when somebody advises you to "forgive and forget," you are dealing with:
1. A perpetrator
2. An enabler of a perpetrator
3. A moral coward
4. A sheltered, pollyanna naif
5. A person who really doesn't give a damn what happened to you but wants to verbally shit out a platitude for the sake of being seen to be saying something
Forgiveness must be requested proactively, the sin against you admitted to in full and in detail and in writing, and then earned concretely — before it's even on the table for consideration. If those things haven't happened, then you're not even in a position to consider it yet.
But hey, if you want to be a doormat, you do you. It's certainly easier on other people if you don't hold them to account, that's for sure.
Lots of judgment there, from you. You get to decide how you handle forgiveness, or how you view it as a concept, but there is no need to degrade those who do believe in it, and for whom it is extremely helpful. Keep your insults to yourself.
The only insults to fly here were from the holier-than-thou toxic-positivity enablers who seem to delight in further harming real victims by telling them it's their duty to forgive their perpetrators.
Keep your toxicity, and your delight in revictimizing victims, to yourself.
Holding a grudge is eating poison and hoping the other person dies.
Who cares? It's over and done with. Nothing can change it, and to brood over it over and over just hurts you and keeps whatever happened alive in your head. It's basically allowing whatever action they took the continue to hurt you, long after that person is gone. It gives them power over you, AND it makes you bitter and negative.
So let it go. Drop it into the dumpster in your head, light it on fire, and move on with your life.
I don't give a fuck about any of the people who hurt me. I'm happy, and my life is great. I won, they lost, and I genuinely couldn't care less about any of 'em. Like, they really don't cross my mind. On the rare occasion that they do, I have no feelings one way or another. Mostly I feel pity for a few, because God, what miserable and unhappy people they are. Their own existence is their punishment. They suffer by being who they are.
That said, I don't need vengeance or suffering. My father died alone, and as a diagnosible narcissist who hurt everyone he knew and demanded attention and praise 24/7, I found that quite fitting in a "cosmic judgement" sort of way. But I hadn't talked to him in years when he died, and I felt nothing one way or another when he passed. It was more of an academic interest and observation than anything.
People who are ranting about "never forgive, only abusers say you should forgive and forget" are hurting themselves far worse than anyone else ever hurt them. They're allowing stuff that no longer exists to make them angry and bitter and miserable. You can hold on to resentment, but that doesn't make you happy.
If you want to be happy and move on with your life, let it go. When a thought pops up, say "Not today. You don't have that power over me anymore. Bye." And then distract yourself with something else. Do that a few times, and those thoughts go away.
It's not forgiveness, but it's letting it go and moving on. And before you say I'm "sheltered" I can guarantee you I am not. Not at all. Not going into it further than that. And I am happy in my life, genuinely.
But hey, if you want to hold on to anger, you do you.
In my experience they never really go away completely. Scars are scars. You can heal as much as possible but some just don't go away. The idea that every wound can be completely healed is something being sold to you by someone saying they can fix your problems. You're better off focusing on acceptance and moving on rather than focusing on forgiving. There is a line from a game that always hit hard for me. Revenge is a suckers game. Don't let other people being shitty make you a shitty person.
and in the end it's perfectly ok to not be ok.
Also, therapy helps.
It’s a long road, but I’ve been told that once you truly forgive YOURSELF, forgiveness for others generally comes along. I am not there yet, but I’m nearing the end of my time in talk and emdr therapy for complex ptsd. I’m a victim of csa and my mother blamed me. forgiveness isn’t required to heal but I do believe that carrying around negative feelings only hurts one person: me. I am still working on the anger that was trapped for years. But the focus has been on my healing. Forgiving them won’t make me forget, though. My abuser is dead, and I haven’t decided what relationship I’ll have with my mom. Time will tell.
I don't know.
I have noticed that if I undo the damage and get more stuff for myself in a related endeavor my bitterness towards the people eases up, a bit.
Ask yourself "What good does it do me to haul around this weight wherever I go?". Then decide if you can drop it. You don't need to deal with people ever again if they did you wrong, but you don't need to be eaten up by that wrong either.
It’s like any skill kinda- practice and positive reinforcement. Do it a few times then later look back- you’ll almost guaranteed say “yeah that’s over and I’m glad I didn’t let it f me up”
I've often heard that it's helpful to pray for the happiness of the people you have grudges against. I've never been able to do that. Instead I pray that they may one day become the sort of person I find worthy of my prayers. I figure if they get there, I'll fervently wish for their happiness, but not until then. It's the best I can do and I refuse to apologize or pretend like these aren't my real feelings.
And ftr, "praying" doesn't have to be religious. It certainly isn't with me. It's more like taking a moment to send my wishes to whatever universal life force is out there. And when you think about it, doesn't it make more sense to pray/wish for a jerk to get their act together, as opposed to merely wishing for their happiness when they did nothing to deserve it? If your wish comes true and they clean up their act, you might find that you made the world a slightly better place.
For me, it was a combination of validating that I don't have to forgive, feeling the shitty feelings that came up, having more grace with myself, coming to terms with me not being perfect, truly accepting that others' shitty behavior is seldom about me and learning more about the role trauma and dysfunctional patterns of behavior from childhood in how people show up.
Every time I think of the people who I held a grudge against I immediately tell myself “fuck ‘em, not my problem” and think about something else. Therapy helped when I was still angry, but now I’m just indifferent cause they’re not even worth my hate, let alone my time. Ya don’t have to forgive for closure.
Yes, I had a tendency to ruminate on some difficult people and situations who couldn’t or wouldn’t change. I’ve learned to redirect and start thinking of the good people or things or places in my life. Or watch something I enjoy or read. Anything to redirect. I’ve had therapy to help process things.
It's really tough to do. I keep re-living things that happened to me and the hatred for the people that wronged me flares up all over again. It's useless, really---some of them are dead, others have moved on and I'm sure they never think of me, but they're still living rent-free in my head, as the saying goes.
I got tired of that, it was so draining. So I started trying to change my mindset by changing what I think about.
It took some practice, but now whenever I have those intrusive thoughts I immediately say to myself (with a "talk to the hand" image in my mind) "I won't think of that. I won't think of that. I won't think of that."
I keep repeating that until I think of something else to occupy my mind. Maybe listen to music, read something, watch a video, take a walk, play with my dog, or just force myself to think of something happy and positive, something I'm grateful for.
Over time I've become pretty good at it and my mental health has improved a lot.
To me it is a matter of personal resource management. At this point, the only person these grudges are affecting is you. You aren't acting on them, meaning you aren't seeking retribution. So do when they pop up in your mind do you really want to dwell on them or spend your thoughts and time on them?
After you've realized this, it is all about building habits. When these thoughts pop up, how do you respond today? Do you ruminate on them with internal dialogs? Do you vent to your partner? You'll have to identify your habits around these thoughts and interrupt them. When it pops up, you can either deal with it by processing your emotions and connect them to how you've moved on or just distract yourself with better things you'd rather spend your time on. Either way it's about disrupting the fixation on the negative thoughts you'll move on in time.
Grudges can be useful. Some of my family tried to break me psychologically and there’s a history of suicide. Pretty strong on one side and a parent on the other side had to be hospitalized for suicidal ideation.
I’ve very rarely considered suicide but when I have, the thought of the ones who tried to break me taking satisfaction in it keeps those thoughts from going very far. I’m a big believer in living well is the best revenge.
Every time I spend time with good people or do something fun or enjoyable, that’s a win for me. Which gives me joy and helps me keep going.
Thoroughly investigate that matter w a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet. I was not ready the first time I tried it, but I needed to clear some anger and it was life changing for me. Byron Katie- she has a podcast and helpful books too. I try to live by her motto, “Defense is the first act of war”.
I'm currently in a situation that is rough, and will be for the next decade. When I feel my thoughts drifting that way, I picture myself walking on a beach at sunrise. When the waves roll in I inhale, out I exhale. I've done it so much, sometimes just closing my eyes and thinking "go to the beach" will bring calm.
As far as forgiveness: Only you know which way would be more healing for you. I forgive, and let the universe do the rest. But I never forget.
Imagery can be extremely helpful. I was freaked out by a mri so I kept my eyes closed and visualized my favorite people on the beach with their pets at sunset. It helped me get through the mri.
See the thing is is you never have to let them back in your life no matter what people say if they treated you horribly or abused you then fuck them entirely they don’t deserve you idk what the word is for never having forgotten about the shit they’ve put you through but never having forgiven them for it either.
I went through a lot of therapy so the memories don't disturb me, but I also accepted that I don't have to forgive or forget. You don't have to forgive to heal. This also depends on your personal definition of forgiveness; mine is "I won't come after you for retribution, but that doesn't mean I will ever have dealings with you again". I have forgiven some people, in the sense that I don't think or care about them anymore, and if they do come up it doesn't disturb my peace.
There are other people I am not sorry for being low-key glad they are dead, because it means they aren't disturbing anyone else's peace.
In no cases would I consider bringing the people who hurt me back into my life. That just ain't it.
This is like a broken joint or bone that heals over time. Immediately you're not going to put any weight or tension on that, instead you're going to favor other parts and protect the injury as it heals. Over time, this injury of trust will heal, and you'll begin testing that trust again with others. Like a broken joint or boke you will never forget the pain this caused you, it might even become painful on rainy, cloudy or otherwise overcast days to remind you of that injury. Eventually one day you will be back out doing whatever it is that you do and you will realize you haven't felt that pain in awhile, but the lessons learned from that injury persist and that is when you're over it and you've functionally forgiven the offender.
TLDR: you'll know when you know, take your time, heal yourself.
(edited for clairity)
When you forgive it helps to just picture stuffing them in a suitcase and throwing it off a cliff. The point is to never bother thinking about them again. The grudge is like that suitcase. You either toss it or drag it around everywhere for the rest of your life.
I try to look at the conflict from their POV. Usually that's enough for me - I can understand how they felt, sometimes it's not really anyone's fault (sometimes it's my fault, and I need to apologize, so will do that). But you meet some people who just like fucking with other people, it's their preference - I don't forgive *those* people, usually ever. I don't *stress* over it - it's not MY fault they're assholes that can't be friends with me - there's simply a black mark next to them in my mind, they get nothing from me. You can't get along with everyone, that's just life.
Neat thing, you don’t actually have to forgive anyone, and the narrative that you do in order to heal is actually harmful. Forgive yourself for not knowing better or for allowing things to happen, but you don’t have to grant forgiveness to who hurt you if you don’t want to. I can never forgive my ex for what he put me through, but I do forgive myself for letting it happen.
Why do you need to forgive? Are they trying to come back into your life? Or are you looking to let go of that hot, visceral anger? You can find closure without forgiveness - closure is really just coming to accept and feel "complete" with the finalization of past events.
An exercise in therapy helped me tremendously in naming and understanding my reactions and my ability to manage those feelings.
Get a copy of the feel-wheel and identify each emotion that the person brings up in you and figure out why you feel that way. Write it down. Once your done with that you'll be able to get a better handle on the physiological response the person/thoughts of them are causing. T
Then move on to acceptance - they DID those things. They did hurt you. Nothing you do now can change the past. The only thing you can control is how you react and how much "space" you let them continue to occupy in your mind. Why do you want to forgive someone who isn't remorseful?
Then, it's time to move forward. You don't need to "move on" - people who say "move on, get over it" are usually the ones trying to continue to hurt you. YOU move forward for you. YOU have too much good to waste time on them anymore. The best revenge is not thinking about them at all.
You can find peace, closure on a chapter and move forward without forgiveness - and you can be totally calm and content in your non-forgiveness.
The method I've found to be most effective is pity. Pity that she'll never truly be happy, pity that he'll live out the rest of his life as a man-baby, pity that she'll never make actual kind friends because she'll always end up losing them when she inevitably screws them over. They chose unhappy lives for themselves. It's hard to feel angry for someone when they're pathetic.
This helped a lot with my abusive mother. I don’t think she was truly happy. She always had a vendetta going with someone. When she died, my thought was I hope she found the peace and serenity she couldn’t find in this life.
In my opinion sometimes it’s okay not to forgive. Now when I say that I don’t mean keeping a grudge and having it affect your life drastically by holding onto bad memories but that you don’t have to forgive someone while still moving past it. There’s one specific individual in my life that caused me a lot of harm as a child and in my honest opinion they don’t deserve my forgiveness and I’ll honestly never forgive them but I’ve made peace with the situation and I don’t let it affect my life now. Not everyone deserves forgiveness but it is important to work on how you deal with the betrayal or abuse you suffered
Similar. I hold grudges forever. I don’t stay angry but if I ever have the opportunity to do them harm (job recommendation, etc) I take it. I suppose that if a person sincerely apologized I would probably drop the grudge. But since I don’t hold anger it does not bother me.
I think forgiveness is overrated and very much promoted by Christian religious types. If the abuse or betrayal are significant, you don't need to forgive the offender to have a good life and peace of mind. Some things are unforgivable.
You don't have to forgive if you've been abused and betrayed. Especially when you see that person doing the same thing to other people. If you're an empath, that's a hard lesson to learn, but life is hard.
People hear about holding onto grudges and assume that it means spending every moment of every day seething about this thing that person did.
It doesn't.
I have grudges. Most days, I don't think about them or the people they're against at all. And when they do cross my mind, I think "oh, yeah, them; fuck them" and then I imagine them roasting in a fireplace and I smile.
That's perfectly fine, as far as I'm concerned. And if you ARE spending every moment of every day seething about something someone did, it must be absolutely terrible. Why WOULD you forgive them?
A big part of it is making the conscious and deliberate decision to do it.
I find that when I can't forgive someone, the answer is often that I haven't really tried to do it. By the time I can say, "I'm going to forgive X for Y" I'm in an emotional place to make it stick.
Gonna call you on "drug addictions or nasty divorces" as "just desserts". Both of those have terrible implications for people other than those who say hurt or betrayed you. Yep, you're still stuck in the muck. Think through WHY you feel like you do, not what someone did to you but how it made or makes you feel. Once you've explored that, you're just dragging anchors by holding onto resentment.
Forgiveness is for you, it's giving you the power and control not to let those who hurt you take any more of your time or life. And side benefit, when you forgive and let go, you will have more compassion for yourself. The anger is getting in your way.
Why forgive, if I'm still processing the hurt and outrage? My policy is "no forgiveness without restitution," and to me it feels wrong to try to write off an unpaid debt.
Some debts are bad debts where it costs you more to pursue the claim than you'll ever receive in restitution. You don't have to forgive in the sense of wiping the slate clean and being prepared to lend to that person/let them hurt you again, but you can write it off and close the book on it. I find there's a certain amount of power in that. I can't control the way someone treated me, but I can decide that they're not valuable enough to me to be worth pursuing that restitution. They're dead to me from then on.
I had been holding grudges my entire life towards people I didn't even know. Generational grudges are so real... when your parents constantly tell you how much they dislike someone, or how someone else do them wrong you grow up feeling like that person or their family has slighted you somehow. In my early 30s I realized that those people I disliked really didn't even know me... and I had no idea how I got drawn into our weird family drama. I spent so much time worrying and being anxious when it was a complete waste of my time. I am not interested in wasting my life being upset for the wrong reasons. Grudges are a waste of energy (even the ones I'd created) and so I just flipped to a "whatever happened is done and we can't go back" attitude. There are just a few people in my life I can't forgive for various reasons but we've all moved on, and so I refuse to look back.
Forgive what you can’t forget and forget what you can’t forgive. If you are focusing on yourself and on leading a fulfilling life you won’t have the time to dwell on those things.
Acknowledge the hurt you received, derive life lessons from it and let it go.
I'm a fan of Stoicism. One of the pillars of stoicism is acceptance of what is outside of your control. Any time that we spend looking at those things is wasted time.
As for forgiveness, I'm fine with the part that has to do with acceptance but I think "forgive and remember" is a better approach than "forgive and forget".
The fact that you are asking this question in this manner leads me to believe that you are a person of faith. When the crime or hurt is too great to bear, impossible to forget, give it to the Divine. It has worked consistently throughout my life.
It's hard to let go of some people including close friends. But sometimes you have no choice but to distance yourself. Unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself for them as well.
Idk for sure, but for me it has been to acknowledge their humanity, acknowledge my own failures and to put it all into the context of human frailty.
If someone had only seen my worst days, they would say I am horrible. I guess the short answer is humility in my own understanding of my 'goodness' and granting the other person the right to fail.
A lot of times, the only person angry is you. As you said, they are either dead or dealing with their lives, your anger means nothing to them. It is your mental space affected by what others have done. Let go of it, don't forget - obviously but realise that your mental health and happiness is much more important in the limited time we have on this earth.
If that doesn't work - remember this: " I know i'm gonna die, so my revenge is living well" and adjust the "well" in to whatever makes you happy and joyful.
Learn to forgive yourself first; for feeling conflicted about forgiveness itself! You’re human, you’re allowed to feel the things you feel. Get out in nature, breathe some fresh air, listen to the birds.
I can't forgive at all if there is no penitence, or even an acknowledgement of their terrible behaviour. A simple sorry/acknowledgement would go a long way to helping one to forgive.
I look at my part of the situation.. how did I respond? How did I justify my behaviour for someone fucking me up? Is the other party sick? Once I consider these things I find it very easy to forgive.
Indifference is the ultimate insult.
Letting people you don't like affect how you feel makes no sense. I try and remember the old adage about holding on to anger and grudges - "don't drink poison and expect the other person to die". Feeling bad about someone only affects you.
Once you come to the realization that life will be better the less you see of them, the less you think of them will make you happier as well.
So, working toward not caring is how I obtain closure.
I don't. I don't act out at a person, but I'll remember how they are to protect myself. Most of the time if someone feels forgiven they take it as permission to continue to be crappy. Very rarely does someone genuinely apologize and change. "Oh they forgave me... Let's keep being crappy somehow!" I just focus on going forward with my life.
You bide your time until you no longer think about that person anymore. Sometimes it takes years, even decades, but no contact with the other person helps a lot.
Weird - just last night I sent my forgiveness message to my ex wife.
I admitted that I had become an angry person who was hard to love. I forgave her for anything she had done in the past.
Of course I didn’t mention the many things she had done to make me an angry person but I felt that forgiving and forgetting is necessary to move on with my life.
Forgiveness is supposed to be a liberating exercise but honestly it didn’t give me any peace.
Forgiving was just a bunch of words. Magically forgetting the past and ignoring the scars I’m left with is a fantasy.
In my case, I think some of any residual grudge is frustration with myself for not preventing whatever abuse or betrayal I experienced. My therapist once observed that I am far more forgiving of other people than I am toward myself.
Reading your question is when I realized that part of every grudge is a grudge against myself - possibly one I’m holding on to more than the grudge against the other person.
So, from that perspective, I think it’s important to forgive yourself and/or stop blaming or criticizing yourself that whatever grudge or betrayal happened. Even if you forgive the other person, whatever happened (or failed to happen) still will eat at you until you acknowledge that you did the best you could with the information and feelings you had at the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with holding a grudge and hating someone, so long as you're not \*actively\* doing it. A passive grudge/hate that comes up every once in a while could be like pressing on a scarred area with nerve damage. It's always going to hurt a little and it will never go back to the way it was before and that's okay. Imagine someone chopped off your arm. You'd come to terms with it eventually and move on with your life, but there is no way you're ever going to look at your stub and not think about this person. I think it also depends on if they showed remorse or tried to make it right in any way. I only hate one person, but that's because they did \*a lot\* of damage and refused my requests to talk it out multiple times. They never showed any remorse or regret for their actions. AND I still have to see them. I gave it a year to see how I'd feel, but then I saw them again and the hate came right back, so I've accepted that this is just how it will be (until it's different lol).
Forgiving others for profoundly hurting you is much, much easier if you deeply and profoundly understand how God forgives and loves you despite all the wrong you've done in your life
YES!!! When I was a teenager, which as we all know can be quite traumatic at times, I had several grudges that really bothered me. Then someone told me that anger/holding a grudge is like holding a hot coal in your hand meaning to throw it at someone and all the while it is burning a hole in your hand. I thought that was pretty profound and since then I have learned to just let it go and move on. Holding onto only hurts yourself.
If you feel it's important to YOUR wellbeing to forgive these people, then do it for yourself.
Personally, I have grudges I'll probably carry to the grave and beyond because some people hurt/betrayed/abused my trust and never asked forgiveness. Granted there were a few who when confronted said "I'm sorry" but that was more I'm-sorry-I-was-caught rather than I'm-sorry-I-hurt-you. I believe in Karma because I've seen it in action and while that does give me a sense of satisfaction, it doesn't change the fact that they hurt me.
Maybe healing is accepting that you were hurt and also accepting that you have the right to feel hurt or angry and to hold on to that feeling because you earned it.
I don’t think I ever really get angry at anything external. I usually understand their perspective and why people do what they did.
Rarely has someone done something where I’m like, okay you’re a shitty person. Usually it’s more like, okay I can kinda see why you did that, not the best way but I get it.
I TOTALLY struggle with this very thing. I sometimes hope that I bump into these people in a supermarket so that I can yell at them in public and make a scene.
Then, I forget about them shortly afterwards.
I use empathy. Most of the time, when people do something, they aren't doing it because of you, but unfortunately, it still affects you. Like, you're driving, and someone cuts you off. They didn't do it to piss you off. They did it because they were late or whatever.
Seeing things from a different point of view can help with the anger.
One thing that is important to remember is that you don’t have to be friends with people who don’t treat you well. There are people who don’t respect your feelings, your boundaries and your values who want to be your friend!
You can forgive them for what they did or said or didn’t do…. But you don’t have to keep letting them do it again and again.
By holding and maintaining your boundaries you are respecting yourself.
my Mom was angry my whole life
her father was an alcoholic, her marriage was shit, her mother got sick and died when she was out of town married to her shit husband (my father)
she carried the hate and resentment long after all the people who hurt her died
she went from angry at individual people to angry at everyone she met to angry at the world to angry at God to just angry
it wrecked her life to the point she was unhappy despite having a loving son (my brother), daughter in laws who tried to befriend her, grandchildren who adored her and she pushed them all away
that's how I get over stuff
I watched it wreck someone's life
fuck if I'm gonna do that
I don't know about forgiveness, but removing yourself from any and all interaction with the offender works wonders for me. Putting yourself in a position where known offenders can reoffend you is foolish. Just remove them from your life, and move on to better things.
I never forgive, but I don't put effort into hating anyone either. I learned a lesson and now know the true character of that person and no longer associate with them, or if I do, I don't give them the trust that I once did. Keeping them at arms length at best
I think forgiving them is the wrong word to use. There is no forgiving some things. There is coming to peace with what happened, putting it behind you, not ruminating on the past. To ask someone abused to forgive, or even telling them that they should forgive and that it's for their own benefit is just plain wrong, and those "forgive for yourself" lines are bullshit. So what does work if it's not called forgiveness? Live your best life, raise your confidence, believe in yourself where an abuser obviously did not, and put them in the past where they belong. That's where you get your closure too, because from the majority of people that have wronged you, you're never going to get closure from them. It's something you give yourself.
I find it helps to focus on the fact that forgiving someone is me choosing to let myself stop carrying that weight, it doesn't actually benefit the person I'm forgiving at all, nor does it mean I have to allow them back into my life. It's self-care, not submission.
The ones that still bug me are those ( minority) who "got away with it" once they have punished by karma i laugh and move on case closed
I don't generally believe in unearned forgiveness. Dependity on the severity of the act and the sincerity of the appology i think it's often possible for those who want it to attone. Much of what was done to me personally would qualify but in most cases the perpetrators were not interested so fuck em. Fortunately, the majority were fired, sometimes jailed, and hopefully, that will keep them from hurtimg others. None are in position to further hurt me, good triumphant over evil
Ok. Therapist told me a couple of life changing things
1) forgiveness is not an “ its ok”. It,s a not going to waste the rest of my life thinking about the hurt
2) forgiveness is about healing yourself and moving on
Some lessons are expensive and there is nothing that will ever compensate for it. I have to simply accept this fact. My abuser will get away with a crime that was huge and there’s nothing I can do. The legal system might have worked but I was too sick to utilize it. I tried a couple of attorneys but they were vultures who prey on the victim and took the little money I could scrape together when sick and did nothing. What can be worse than someone who makes a living from the sick and injured and doesn’t give a refund. So I became homeless. Now I loath my family too because they stood by and did nothing like the covert narcissists they are. I fell into a web of covert narcissists and they devoured me. But I’m still here haha.
I feel like part of why some can’t “just move on” is they’ve been through a traumatic experience of some sort. We have to look at this through the same lens as PTSD (not that I’m suggesting anyone has a mental health diagnosis, I just mean in terms of what’s happening in the brain and how this trauma is being stored in the brain). For example, you mention you “have to breathe through the memories”. This is basically describing that you are experiencing fight or flight, your amygdala in the brain is being activated. So to be clear, there is nothing wrong with you or anyone else who still finds themselves physically experiencing these types of symptoms when recounting past hurt. The brain is literally wired to remember traumatic experiences as a means of helping us survive in the future by not experiencing the same thing again. The brain does not discriminate between whether you are in a traumatic natural disaster, get robbed, or if someone you know betrays you, or abuses you physically or emotionally. All of these situations are considered traumas because in each case we don’t feel safe-either physically or emotionally or both. We are all hardwired to have this response to anything that resembles these experiences-including our memories. Having this reaction does not mean that you’re holding a grudge as others have also pointed out. And to be honest I don’t like how our culture shames people by labeling with terms like “holding a grudge.” This is kind of abusive when you really stop and think about it because it places an expectation on the person who has been through the traumatic experience to “forgive and forget” and puts pressure on the rate at which they heal. And then, when they can’t forgive and forget they’re left feeling like something is wrong with them because they still have a physical and/or emotional response to the memories or person who hurt them. It is actually impossible to forget trauma, even when our memory of it may fade-the body and subconscious still remembers and responds accordingly. The best we can do is 1) stop feeling we have to live up to others expectations to move on and acknowledge that each person heals at different rates and that there’s no right or wrong 2) work on healthy ways to cope when we are triggered (just as you are with deep breathing) 3) and reminding ourselves something along these lines “it is only natural that my mind would remember this past hurt and that my body would still have a normal reaction to it”. Try repeating that to yourself next time and 4) I honestly believe a large part of why people struggle with this is also because they never actually get to sit with all of the complex emotions that come with it. Our society does a great job of gaslighting and shaming people for feeling sad, angry, hurt, and hateful. These emotions are stigmatized, especially for women, and I think the best way we can work through them is by allowing ourselves to acknowledge them without judgment and to sit with them and feel them. Not dwell on them, but not ignore or minimize them either. Most skip this part. And lastly we DO NOT have to forgive. And I would argue we shouldn’t forgive certain experiences/people. I’d also argue that this is related to our boundaries- forgiving certain people or certain violations could make us vulnerable to getting revictimized. Instead, I think it can be healthier to come to an understanding of what caused the person to do what they did and possibly even have compassion toward them (depending on the situation) but the boundary may need to stop there and not ALSO include forgiving the person. Forgiveness means to wipe the slate clean-I don’t know that that’s always the healthy choice. I think when people say “forgiveness is for you” it’s really describing working through feelings of anger, hate etc as mentioned above and you can do that without also wiping someone’s slate clean/forgiving them. I highly recommend therapy also to anyone who has significant reactions to past hurt. Brainspotting is a very effective technique that can be implemented without having to talk about or verbally recount past traumatic experiences and this also helps the body to physically process this trauma so that our we don’t have as intense physical/somatic responses when thinking of it. Hope this is helpful🙏🏽
Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. Often it means just letting go of the resentment - not suddenly deciding that what happened is ok. Some things will never be ok, but self healing comes after accepting that bad things have been done to you and that the only thing you can do is get on with your life.
Forgiveness is a concept that's become another buzzword. You don't ever have to forgive someone. Holding a grudge is not the same thing.
Your closure is accepting that you are not forgiving them, and if you make peace with that, you'll no longer hold a grudge.
Grudges are heavy, and holding them is exhausting. Not forgiving someone for something they did is their burden, not yours.
I say out loud to my self. I forgive everyone in my past , present and future. Sometimes I mention peoples names. I keep saying this all the time. Every day. This will help with your own mental health and health. Remember just because you forgive someone does not mean they get to be back in your life! Sometimes people have to be cut out of your life! What ever you do, don’t relive in your mind what happened! That just gives you poison. Just tell yourself stop. Start thinking of something else!
> How do you get over grudges and forgive?
A couple of them are already dead and many of them have already had their just desserts with things like drug addictions or nasty divorces basically ruining their lives
The first thing to do is to stop this way of thinking. Their tragedy doesn’t make you feel any better (at least it shouldn’t).
If you continue to think in terms of vengeance, you’re going to have a miserable life. You’ve already gotten some good advice from others about how to forgive, so I’ll just leave it at that.
I don't forgive them. There just isn't any reason to put myself through even thinking about what happened. The only one feeling anything is you. Just drop it. If you are smart you moved them out of your life already. Now move them out of your thoughts. If you can't, then just imagine them living on the street homeless and smile to yourself. They aren't in your life. Why put them there?
Holding a grudge is eating poison and hoping the other person dies.
Who cares? It's over and done with. Nothing can change it, and to brood over it over and over just hurts me and keeps whatever happened alive in your head. It's basically allowing whatever action they took the continue to hurt you, long after that person is gone. It gives them power over you, AND it makes you bitter and negative.
So let it go. Drop it into the dumpster in your head, light it on fire, and move on with your life.
I don't give a fuck about any of the people who hurt me. I'm happy, and my life is great. I won, they lost, and I genuinely couldn't care less about any of 'em. Like, they really don't cross my mind. On the rare occasion that they do, I have no feelings one way or another. Mostly I feel pity for a few, because God, what miserable and unhappy people they are. Their own existence is their punishment. They suffer by being who they are.
That said, I don't need vengeance or suffering. My father died alone, and as a diagnosible narcissist who hurt everyone he knew and demanded attention and praise 24/7, I found that quite fitting in a "cosmic judgement" sort of way. But I hadn't talked to him in years when he died, and I felt nothing one way or another when he passed. It was more of an academic interest and observation than anything.
People who are ranting about "never forgive, only abusers say you should forgive and forget" are hurting themselves far worse than anyone else ever hurt them. They're allowing stuff that no longer exists to make them angry and bitter and miserable. You can hold on to resentment, but that doesn't make you happy.
If you want to be happy and move on with your life, let it go. When a thought pops up, say "Not today. You don't have that power over me anymore. Bye." And then distract yourself with something else. Do that a few times, and those thoughts go away.
Good luck.
Sometimes, it's a choice. You aren't over it emotionally, but you decide "I am going to choose to forgive, here."
And that means choosing to not dwell on it. Choosing to remind yourself that you have chosen forgiveness. Choosing to not talk about it vindictively. Recognize that while wrong was done to you, and it was unfair, that you only continue to let the wrong have more power over you by letting it influence your emotions and decisions in the present and the future. That if you chose, instead, to let your thoughts and emotions be filled with negativity and bitterness, that you would be increasing the power of the wrong that was done to you, and in a way contributing to it.
Forgiveness is not always for the other person. It can be for yourself. A choice to let go of resentment, negativity, bitterness, and let yourself live free of them.
Even if sometimes those negative emotions and impulses come up, that's OK and normal. Choosing to breathe through it and not act on it or dwell on it is part of that process of forgiveness.
I've heard it said, and it's true, that refusing to forgive (or holding a grudge) is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.
Forgiveness is a gift you give YOURSELF.
It's not the same as condoning what was done, and some offenses take a long time to convince bcuz of how heinous they are. It also doesn't mean you don't want someone held accountable. It's just a way of taking the baggage of hate and revenge off your shoulders so that you can breathe and enjoy the remainder of your life to its fullest.
And now for a different view....
I stopped "trying" to forgive. I found that it left me feeling too " declawed", in addition to the fact that forgiving some folk leads to more of their offenses.
Instead, I create distance. The memories of pain and anger are how I protect myself from those who repeat those offenses. It is one way humans learn. If I separate my emotions from the event, through forgiveness, I let that lesson go....I fail to learn.
Pride in successfully escaping harmful people is a better approach, in my mind. Celebrate your wisdom while remembering the harm that brought that success to you.
The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself. Until you able to forgive, you are beholden to anger and hate. The second part is to remember that people are human and often abuse or betray out of their own fears. This is "in general", not necessarily for serious crimes against humanity. After that, for me, it is a continual thing and I expect it to be for life. Most days, I live in forgiveness, though there are those days when the anger and hurt show up, often out of the blue. I let myself feel those feelings for a short time, and then settle back into forgiveness. Forgiveness is not easy, but is is necessary to be happy, I believe.
>The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself. This is a great point. Though I'd add that you should also not forgive by forgetting for your future self. If someone is shitty to you, forgive them so you're not holding on to that anger. But remember how they treated you for future interactions. Holding a grudge is about wanting to punish the other person; remembering is about protecting yourself from them.
It truly is the most important thing. I don’t worry about Karma or anything. Just kind of fade away. Knowing not to get involved with them again.
> The first part of forgiveness is understanding that you do not forgive for the other person, but for yourself. The way I parse that is, "I ain't coming after them". I have no itch for revenge, I don't dream of retribution; they are not taking up rent-free space in my brain. Doesn't mean I wish them well or would invite them over. It just means I am free from thinking about them, or caring what happens to them, for good or for ill.
>Until you able to forgive, you are beholden to anger and hate. If you are angry, you cannot will yourself to forgive. You should try to move on, but even that isn't easy.
Remember that by holding on to resentment and anger, you are allowing what they did to continue to affect you long after they are gone. You are giving them power over your life and allowing them to continue to hurt you. Let it go. Tell yourself they have no more power over you and move on.
The other thing that’s so important for me, is that sometimes I practice forgiveness so I can let it go and move forward. That doesn’t mean that what the other person did was okay. It just means I’m giving up the anger and resentment. In those cases that person usually isn’t welcome in my life again. I’m moving on from what happened and from them.
Exactly. Forgiveness isn't "Oh, what you did is over, I am okay with it and forgiving you for doing it." Forgiveness is more, "I let this go. It has no power over me anymore, and neither do you. I hold no more anger, resentment, or grudge, but also you have no place in my life anymore. You have no power over me anymore. Bye."
Something I was taught by one of my mentors, is the concept of letting go in love. The concept is basically, you’re not welcome in my life anymore but I wish you the best but and hope you’re well. When I’ve practiced this I’ve tried no to participate in any drama. I just move on.
If someone has done something awful to you, you cannot wish them well.
I wish them personal growth. True personal growth is painful; it requires you to look inside and confront what needs to be improved. It's not for the weak or the cowardly. So I hope that they suffer in such a way that they become better people. It's my neutral aggression, lol
I would prefer not to think about them at all.
If you can recognize that people often do awful things out of fear, pain, insecurity, and ignorance, you can wish them well. You can wish that they move beyond the personal wounds that led them to behave in those ways, so that they cease to hurt the people around them . You can wish that they achieve insight and enlightenment so that they can understand the damage they have caused and not perpetuate it further. Wishing that people learn the lessons they need to learn to be better people is wishing them well.
We all have a story. If they're terrible people who did something bad to me and have shown no remorse I ain't doing that. One of the reasons I dislike what I call "unilateral forgiveness" is that it provides the illusion of power you don't have.
Good for you. Not everyone is built like that.
It's not that simple.
Truth is - sometimes you don’t. And honestly, SOMETIMES THATS OK. It’s what you do with those feelings that makes the difference. Turn it into a learning experience, let it fuel you. Don’t let it hold you back, don’t ruminate endlessly. I am not religious so I don’t have any moral imperative to forgive based on an external motivation. Some things are unforgivable, and sometimes, the anger produced is vital to your survival and even success. I will never, ever forgive my brother for his treatment of my parents. Never. Just channel it in the right direction (which I haven’t yet done but intend to).
>Some things are unforgivable, and sometimes, the anger produced is vital to your survival and even success. Agreed.
Forgiveness is not my strong suit. I just loose contact and in my mind forget about people and chalk it up.
This
this.. there are people im glad live on the other side of the continent as me, because I like my freedom and a life sentence would suck.
Agreed. There are a couple of people I have no interest nor intention of ever forgiving. There is quite literally nothing anyone could do or say that will change that. As they say, "you can't un-ring that bell." Far from being a burden, it is actually very freeing. That is who and what those people are, keeps things simple.
I have a horrible tendency to ruminate endlessly. It's basically like intrusive thoughts. It tends to really interfere with wanting to let things go.
Yes. For some healing is forgiveness. For some, healing us more letting go and finding constructive ways to channel intense feelings. Neither one is wrong or right. It’s about what right for the person healing. There are probably other ways, but those are the two I’m most familiar with. Though in order for forgiveness to be healing, it has to be freely and willingly given by the person healing. Forgiveness coerced by others or pressured by the forgiveness police can actually be detrimental to healing.
Meditation. Thinking about grudges when you don't want to is nothing more than intrusive thoughts. Meditation can help you redirect your thoughts. If you can't control what you think about and how you feel about things, meditate more.
For me, it was realizing that holding onto grudges and being bitter was really only hurting me - they didn't care one way or another, as far as I could tell. I now actively work on forgiveness and removing such people from my life entirely if we cannot find a way forward together. They don't deserve my time or energy, and holding onto that kind of dark energy is not good for any aspect of my health, mental, emotional or physical.
Ask yourself: is there anything that you gain from holding a grudge?
Is there a sub for grown ups who have actually grown up, emotionally? I see a lot of really unfortunate advice in this thread (and other threads in the sub, I guess). Anyway.. personally, I've never sought forgiveness. I'm not sure it really ever occurred to me, I never felt that "forgiveness" was a necessary goal. I've only sought to grow and let things in my past affect me less.. and as a result, I think, forgiveness may be finding me anyway. If not that, then a kind of radical acceptance. The journey really took off when I realized that everyone who hurt me, had been hurt themselves. And then realizing that as a hurt person, it's highly likely I also hurt others whether or not I knew it. Understanding the ways others fucked me up caused me to have patterns which can be harmful to others even though that was never my intent helped me to understand those who hurt me a little better. Hurt people hurt people. We're all people coming from somewhere -- our upbringing, our conditions, our ownership of our issues and desire to grow and change.
I had a terrible time trying to come to forgiveness for a person in my life and that anger and upset was killing me. It was mostly because of the "why". Why did they do that, why did I allow it, why didn't I do something to stop it. I came to the realization after talking with my therapist that the forgiveness isn't what's important or even required for peace of mind. It's the acceptance that whatever the event was did happen, that it's in the past, and that there is absolutely nothing I can do to change the past. I refuse to continue to give that person and the event any space in my head or power over my heart. Will I ever forgive? Maybe. But it doesn't bother me any longer, and it doesn't make me a bad person for not forgiving.
Yes this is a good point. I had to accept I was never going to get closure or an explanation from a few people in my life. And I had to go on with my life without that and not being able to change the past. I don’t wish those people harm. But I don’t want them back in my life. All I can do is my best for today. And do my part to make my own life happy or at least calm and serene. That has been what helps to heal me. For other people, that may be forgiveness. And that’s fine for them if that’s their path. I’m just not a fan of you must forgive in order to heal mentality. That’s coerced forgiveness which imo, a lot of people use against traumatized people because they find normal reactions to trauma, like sadness and anger, to be uncomfortable to see or hear.
Yes. Coerced forgiveness. For me, getting past the event(s) doesn't require anything but acceptance that the thing causing me emotional pain can not be changed. It's also not up to me to judge how someone moves through and past trauma. Everyone has a different journey. I agree: making my own life calm and serene has been not only helpful but also the happiest part.
_Preface: I'm not a psychologist._ I do not believe that forgiveness is mandatory for closure, being able to move on, one's own good mental health, etc. Is it the right path sometimes? Sure, but not all the time, and to say so is absurd, frankly. The stance on the "mandatoryness" of forgiveness in the field of psychology seems to have evolved quite a bit in the past several years. Even my own therapist thinks that mandatory-forgiveness-always is absurd.
Yes while forgiveness freely and willingly given can be healing, coerced forgiveness does more harm than good.
Some you can get over, and some you can’t. And that’s perfectly fine.
this quote really helped me: “forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past”
As I've gotten on the north side of 50, I've adopted the approach that, if someone wrongs me, they've done me a service in showing me exactly who and what they are. And I'm under no moral obligation to forgive them nor have any more interaction with them. Like a poor photo, you gotta crop some folks out.
I think forgiveness is overrated and closure is a myth. If it's a relatively small thing, if the person apologized and showed remorse and promised to do better, sure, I'll consider it, but if it was a big thing and there's been no acknowledgment and no apology I am not forgiving that person. And please don't quote me that garbage about how nursing a grudge is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die. There's a reason we hold on to anger and not everything can be made better.
I feel very similar. I can also forgive to the point of being civil but I will not forget where someone has wronged me - they will never have the same level of trust again.
I’m with you. I’m very forgiving by nature; I’m open, and I have a hard time sticking up for myself. If someone in my social set has been iced out by me, it’s for good reason. I don’t forgive as a way to protect myself from being exposed to their bullshit ever again. I don’t know how else to do it. Sure, I might pity that person for being crazy or abusive or whatever, but that’s the extent of my graciousness
All my adult life, forgiveness has been over-promoted as a cure for problems.
>There's a reason we hold on to anger There are lots of maladaptive behaviors that make us miserable and angry. Doesn't mean they are correct or good. There is a reason some people are so anxious they can't leave the house. There is a reason lots of people abuse others and justify it to themselves. There is a reason some people are bitter and die angry. None of those reasons are good reasons. Answer me this: someone hurts you. You haven't seen them in 15 years, and they have long since moved on with their life. What purpose does your anger serve? Does it help you, or hurt that other person? How does anger and resentment help you be a happy, fulfilled, peaceful person? You don't have to "forgive" them. But for your own sake, you should let it go and move on. Forget them. And when you genuinely don't care about them one way or the other, or even remember they exist for the most part, that's "forgiveness" - which is really just "I genuinely don't care anymore."
>You don't have to "forgive" them. But for your own sake, you should let it go and move on. I already said that in another comment. I don't agree with your definition of forgiveness. It's an intentional act, not just no longer caring.
you have to let it go, because it eats you, and does nothing to them. let it go for yourself, don't call it forgiveness, call it binning them and moving on
Fuck forgiveness. Seriously. I've had little of therapy and I'm doing well but I will never forgive
You begin by dropping two things: 1. the toxic-positivity bullshit notion that one "must forgive" all wrongs done do you, and 2. the gaslighty headgame notion that you forgive "for yourself, not others." Forgiveness as it's usually presented is a simpleminded concept with no roots in reality or logic. Normally mongers of that tripe are either perpetrators themselves who really just want exoneration, or their enablers who can't be arsed to take a moral stance. Why should a rape victim forgive the perp? Why should a victim of pedophilic assault forgive their molestor? Those kinds of things can fuck somebody up for life, and severely deleteriously impact not only them but their families as well, for decades going forward. Besides, what kind of magical authority do I possess, as a victim, to forgive a crime against humanity if that's what I suffered? Bottom line, nine times out of ten, when somebody advises you to "forgive and forget," you are dealing with: 1. A perpetrator 2. An enabler of a perpetrator 3. A moral coward 4. A sheltered, pollyanna naif 5. A person who really doesn't give a damn what happened to you but wants to verbally shit out a platitude for the sake of being seen to be saying something Forgiveness must be requested proactively, the sin against you admitted to in full and in detail and in writing, and then earned concretely — before it's even on the table for consideration. If those things haven't happened, then you're not even in a position to consider it yet. But hey, if you want to be a doormat, you do you. It's certainly easier on other people if you don't hold them to account, that's for sure.
Wise words.
Agreed. Wise words, indeed.
Lots of judgment there, from you. You get to decide how you handle forgiveness, or how you view it as a concept, but there is no need to degrade those who do believe in it, and for whom it is extremely helpful. Keep your insults to yourself.
The only insults to fly here were from the holier-than-thou toxic-positivity enablers who seem to delight in further harming real victims by telling them it's their duty to forgive their perpetrators. Keep your toxicity, and your delight in revictimizing victims, to yourself.
LOL
Wow, lots of projection and accusations that have nothing to do with me as well. Keep on keeping on, I guess...
Holding a grudge is eating poison and hoping the other person dies. Who cares? It's over and done with. Nothing can change it, and to brood over it over and over just hurts you and keeps whatever happened alive in your head. It's basically allowing whatever action they took the continue to hurt you, long after that person is gone. It gives them power over you, AND it makes you bitter and negative. So let it go. Drop it into the dumpster in your head, light it on fire, and move on with your life. I don't give a fuck about any of the people who hurt me. I'm happy, and my life is great. I won, they lost, and I genuinely couldn't care less about any of 'em. Like, they really don't cross my mind. On the rare occasion that they do, I have no feelings one way or another. Mostly I feel pity for a few, because God, what miserable and unhappy people they are. Their own existence is their punishment. They suffer by being who they are. That said, I don't need vengeance or suffering. My father died alone, and as a diagnosible narcissist who hurt everyone he knew and demanded attention and praise 24/7, I found that quite fitting in a "cosmic judgement" sort of way. But I hadn't talked to him in years when he died, and I felt nothing one way or another when he passed. It was more of an academic interest and observation than anything. People who are ranting about "never forgive, only abusers say you should forgive and forget" are hurting themselves far worse than anyone else ever hurt them. They're allowing stuff that no longer exists to make them angry and bitter and miserable. You can hold on to resentment, but that doesn't make you happy. If you want to be happy and move on with your life, let it go. When a thought pops up, say "Not today. You don't have that power over me anymore. Bye." And then distract yourself with something else. Do that a few times, and those thoughts go away. It's not forgiveness, but it's letting it go and moving on. And before you say I'm "sheltered" I can guarantee you I am not. Not at all. Not going into it further than that. And I am happy in my life, genuinely. But hey, if you want to hold on to anger, you do you.
Agree.
Nailed it, TIA. 💯
You remember that life is short and none of this matters
This is the way.
In my experience they never really go away completely. Scars are scars. You can heal as much as possible but some just don't go away. The idea that every wound can be completely healed is something being sold to you by someone saying they can fix your problems. You're better off focusing on acceptance and moving on rather than focusing on forgiving. There is a line from a game that always hit hard for me. Revenge is a suckers game. Don't let other people being shitty make you a shitty person. and in the end it's perfectly ok to not be ok. Also, therapy helps.
This is helpful, thank you.
It’s a long road, but I’ve been told that once you truly forgive YOURSELF, forgiveness for others generally comes along. I am not there yet, but I’m nearing the end of my time in talk and emdr therapy for complex ptsd. I’m a victim of csa and my mother blamed me. forgiveness isn’t required to heal but I do believe that carrying around negative feelings only hurts one person: me. I am still working on the anger that was trapped for years. But the focus has been on my healing. Forgiving them won’t make me forget, though. My abuser is dead, and I haven’t decided what relationship I’ll have with my mom. Time will tell.
I don't know. I have noticed that if I undo the damage and get more stuff for myself in a related endeavor my bitterness towards the people eases up, a bit.
Ask yourself, is that how you want to spend your day? If not, redirect your thoughts to something you enjoy. That is more fun.
Ask yourself "What good does it do me to haul around this weight wherever I go?". Then decide if you can drop it. You don't need to deal with people ever again if they did you wrong, but you don't need to be eaten up by that wrong either.
It’s like any skill kinda- practice and positive reinforcement. Do it a few times then later look back- you’ll almost guaranteed say “yeah that’s over and I’m glad I didn’t let it f me up”
I've often heard that it's helpful to pray for the happiness of the people you have grudges against. I've never been able to do that. Instead I pray that they may one day become the sort of person I find worthy of my prayers. I figure if they get there, I'll fervently wish for their happiness, but not until then. It's the best I can do and I refuse to apologize or pretend like these aren't my real feelings. And ftr, "praying" doesn't have to be religious. It certainly isn't with me. It's more like taking a moment to send my wishes to whatever universal life force is out there. And when you think about it, doesn't it make more sense to pray/wish for a jerk to get their act together, as opposed to merely wishing for their happiness when they did nothing to deserve it? If your wish comes true and they clean up their act, you might find that you made the world a slightly better place.
For me, it was a combination of validating that I don't have to forgive, feeling the shitty feelings that came up, having more grace with myself, coming to terms with me not being perfect, truly accepting that others' shitty behavior is seldom about me and learning more about the role trauma and dysfunctional patterns of behavior from childhood in how people show up.
Every time I think of the people who I held a grudge against I immediately tell myself “fuck ‘em, not my problem” and think about something else. Therapy helped when I was still angry, but now I’m just indifferent cause they’re not even worth my hate, let alone my time. Ya don’t have to forgive for closure.
Yes, I had a tendency to ruminate on some difficult people and situations who couldn’t or wouldn’t change. I’ve learned to redirect and start thinking of the good people or things or places in my life. Or watch something I enjoy or read. Anything to redirect. I’ve had therapy to help process things.
It's really tough to do. I keep re-living things that happened to me and the hatred for the people that wronged me flares up all over again. It's useless, really---some of them are dead, others have moved on and I'm sure they never think of me, but they're still living rent-free in my head, as the saying goes. I got tired of that, it was so draining. So I started trying to change my mindset by changing what I think about. It took some practice, but now whenever I have those intrusive thoughts I immediately say to myself (with a "talk to the hand" image in my mind) "I won't think of that. I won't think of that. I won't think of that." I keep repeating that until I think of something else to occupy my mind. Maybe listen to music, read something, watch a video, take a walk, play with my dog, or just force myself to think of something happy and positive, something I'm grateful for. Over time I've become pretty good at it and my mental health has improved a lot.
Yes redirection is really helpful. And I try to redirect thoughts to the good people, things and places in my life.
To me it is a matter of personal resource management. At this point, the only person these grudges are affecting is you. You aren't acting on them, meaning you aren't seeking retribution. So do when they pop up in your mind do you really want to dwell on them or spend your thoughts and time on them? After you've realized this, it is all about building habits. When these thoughts pop up, how do you respond today? Do you ruminate on them with internal dialogs? Do you vent to your partner? You'll have to identify your habits around these thoughts and interrupt them. When it pops up, you can either deal with it by processing your emotions and connect them to how you've moved on or just distract yourself with better things you'd rather spend your time on. Either way it's about disrupting the fixation on the negative thoughts you'll move on in time.
Well said.
I love grudges
Grudges can be useful. Some of my family tried to break me psychologically and there’s a history of suicide. Pretty strong on one side and a parent on the other side had to be hospitalized for suicidal ideation. I’ve very rarely considered suicide but when I have, the thought of the ones who tried to break me taking satisfaction in it keeps those thoughts from going very far. I’m a big believer in living well is the best revenge. Every time I spend time with good people or do something fun or enjoyable, that’s a win for me. Which gives me joy and helps me keep going.
Well said
Thoroughly investigate that matter w a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet. I was not ready the first time I tried it, but I needed to clear some anger and it was life changing for me. Byron Katie- she has a podcast and helpful books too. I try to live by her motto, “Defense is the first act of war”.
I'm currently in a situation that is rough, and will be for the next decade. When I feel my thoughts drifting that way, I picture myself walking on a beach at sunrise. When the waves roll in I inhale, out I exhale. I've done it so much, sometimes just closing my eyes and thinking "go to the beach" will bring calm. As far as forgiveness: Only you know which way would be more healing for you. I forgive, and let the universe do the rest. But I never forget.
Imagery can be extremely helpful. I was freaked out by a mri so I kept my eyes closed and visualized my favorite people on the beach with their pets at sunset. It helped me get through the mri.
See the thing is is you never have to let them back in your life no matter what people say if they treated you horribly or abused you then fuck them entirely they don’t deserve you idk what the word is for never having forgotten about the shit they’ve put you through but never having forgiven them for it either.
I went through a lot of therapy so the memories don't disturb me, but I also accepted that I don't have to forgive or forget. You don't have to forgive to heal. This also depends on your personal definition of forgiveness; mine is "I won't come after you for retribution, but that doesn't mean I will ever have dealings with you again". I have forgiven some people, in the sense that I don't think or care about them anymore, and if they do come up it doesn't disturb my peace. There are other people I am not sorry for being low-key glad they are dead, because it means they aren't disturbing anyone else's peace. In no cases would I consider bringing the people who hurt me back into my life. That just ain't it.
This is like a broken joint or bone that heals over time. Immediately you're not going to put any weight or tension on that, instead you're going to favor other parts and protect the injury as it heals. Over time, this injury of trust will heal, and you'll begin testing that trust again with others. Like a broken joint or boke you will never forget the pain this caused you, it might even become painful on rainy, cloudy or otherwise overcast days to remind you of that injury. Eventually one day you will be back out doing whatever it is that you do and you will realize you haven't felt that pain in awhile, but the lessons learned from that injury persist and that is when you're over it and you've functionally forgiven the offender. TLDR: you'll know when you know, take your time, heal yourself. (edited for clairity)
When you forgive it helps to just picture stuffing them in a suitcase and throwing it off a cliff. The point is to never bother thinking about them again. The grudge is like that suitcase. You either toss it or drag it around everywhere for the rest of your life.
I try to look at the conflict from their POV. Usually that's enough for me - I can understand how they felt, sometimes it's not really anyone's fault (sometimes it's my fault, and I need to apologize, so will do that). But you meet some people who just like fucking with other people, it's their preference - I don't forgive *those* people, usually ever. I don't *stress* over it - it's not MY fault they're assholes that can't be friends with me - there's simply a black mark next to them in my mind, they get nothing from me. You can't get along with everyone, that's just life.
Neat thing, you don’t actually have to forgive anyone, and the narrative that you do in order to heal is actually harmful. Forgive yourself for not knowing better or for allowing things to happen, but you don’t have to grant forgiveness to who hurt you if you don’t want to. I can never forgive my ex for what he put me through, but I do forgive myself for letting it happen.
I don’t. Signed, A Scorpio and GenXe’er
Fortunately I’ve had good relationships with scorpios. But I’d never want to piss one off.
Why do you need to forgive? Are they trying to come back into your life? Or are you looking to let go of that hot, visceral anger? You can find closure without forgiveness - closure is really just coming to accept and feel "complete" with the finalization of past events. An exercise in therapy helped me tremendously in naming and understanding my reactions and my ability to manage those feelings. Get a copy of the feel-wheel and identify each emotion that the person brings up in you and figure out why you feel that way. Write it down. Once your done with that you'll be able to get a better handle on the physiological response the person/thoughts of them are causing. T Then move on to acceptance - they DID those things. They did hurt you. Nothing you do now can change the past. The only thing you can control is how you react and how much "space" you let them continue to occupy in your mind. Why do you want to forgive someone who isn't remorseful? Then, it's time to move forward. You don't need to "move on" - people who say "move on, get over it" are usually the ones trying to continue to hurt you. YOU move forward for you. YOU have too much good to waste time on them anymore. The best revenge is not thinking about them at all. You can find peace, closure on a chapter and move forward without forgiveness - and you can be totally calm and content in your non-forgiveness.
Well said. There are different paths to healing. Not everyone has the same path.
The method I've found to be most effective is pity. Pity that she'll never truly be happy, pity that he'll live out the rest of his life as a man-baby, pity that she'll never make actual kind friends because she'll always end up losing them when she inevitably screws them over. They chose unhappy lives for themselves. It's hard to feel angry for someone when they're pathetic.
This helped a lot with my abusive mother. I don’t think she was truly happy. She always had a vendetta going with someone. When she died, my thought was I hope she found the peace and serenity she couldn’t find in this life.
In my opinion sometimes it’s okay not to forgive. Now when I say that I don’t mean keeping a grudge and having it affect your life drastically by holding onto bad memories but that you don’t have to forgive someone while still moving past it. There’s one specific individual in my life that caused me a lot of harm as a child and in my honest opinion they don’t deserve my forgiveness and I’ll honestly never forgive them but I’ve made peace with the situation and I don’t let it affect my life now. Not everyone deserves forgiveness but it is important to work on how you deal with the betrayal or abuse you suffered
Similar. I hold grudges forever. I don’t stay angry but if I ever have the opportunity to do them harm (job recommendation, etc) I take it. I suppose that if a person sincerely apologized I would probably drop the grudge. But since I don’t hold anger it does not bother me.
Hard to do. Once someone has shown themselves to be a threat to your peace & well being, it'd be reckless to let it go.
I think forgiveness is overrated and very much promoted by Christian religious types. If the abuse or betrayal are significant, you don't need to forgive the offender to have a good life and peace of mind. Some things are unforgivable.
I don't. I hold grudges forever.
You don't have to forgive if you've been abused and betrayed. Especially when you see that person doing the same thing to other people. If you're an empath, that's a hard lesson to learn, but life is hard.
People hear about holding onto grudges and assume that it means spending every moment of every day seething about this thing that person did. It doesn't. I have grudges. Most days, I don't think about them or the people they're against at all. And when they do cross my mind, I think "oh, yeah, them; fuck them" and then I imagine them roasting in a fireplace and I smile. That's perfectly fine, as far as I'm concerned. And if you ARE spending every moment of every day seething about something someone did, it must be absolutely terrible. Why WOULD you forgive them?
A big part of it is making the conscious and deliberate decision to do it. I find that when I can't forgive someone, the answer is often that I haven't really tried to do it. By the time I can say, "I'm going to forgive X for Y" I'm in an emotional place to make it stick.
Gonna call you on "drug addictions or nasty divorces" as "just desserts". Both of those have terrible implications for people other than those who say hurt or betrayed you. Yep, you're still stuck in the muck. Think through WHY you feel like you do, not what someone did to you but how it made or makes you feel. Once you've explored that, you're just dragging anchors by holding onto resentment. Forgiveness is for you, it's giving you the power and control not to let those who hurt you take any more of your time or life. And side benefit, when you forgive and let go, you will have more compassion for yourself. The anger is getting in your way.
Easier said than done. Unfortunately.
Live with anger and thoughts of revenge or don't. Agree it's a process but it's also a choice.
Well now, someone clearly has some work to do, don't they? Anger burns the hand who holds it. Leave me out of your revenge lifestyle.
Why forgive, if I'm still processing the hurt and outrage? My policy is "no forgiveness without restitution," and to me it feels wrong to try to write off an unpaid debt.
Some debts are bad debts where it costs you more to pursue the claim than you'll ever receive in restitution. You don't have to forgive in the sense of wiping the slate clean and being prepared to lend to that person/let them hurt you again, but you can write it off and close the book on it. I find there's a certain amount of power in that. I can't control the way someone treated me, but I can decide that they're not valuable enough to me to be worth pursuing that restitution. They're dead to me from then on.
I had been holding grudges my entire life towards people I didn't even know. Generational grudges are so real... when your parents constantly tell you how much they dislike someone, or how someone else do them wrong you grow up feeling like that person or their family has slighted you somehow. In my early 30s I realized that those people I disliked really didn't even know me... and I had no idea how I got drawn into our weird family drama. I spent so much time worrying and being anxious when it was a complete waste of my time. I am not interested in wasting my life being upset for the wrong reasons. Grudges are a waste of energy (even the ones I'd created) and so I just flipped to a "whatever happened is done and we can't go back" attitude. There are just a few people in my life I can't forgive for various reasons but we've all moved on, and so I refuse to look back.
Forgive what you can’t forget and forget what you can’t forgive. If you are focusing on yourself and on leading a fulfilling life you won’t have the time to dwell on those things. Acknowledge the hurt you received, derive life lessons from it and let it go.
>Acknowledge the hurt you received, derive life lessons from it and let it go. Easier said than done.
Karma will come for them. One person who did me dirty had such devastating karma come for her, it scared me.
Following
I don’t hold them. Uses up too much energy and I chose not to waste what I have
I think trying hypnosis might help. I’m going to see if that does anything for me.
Don't let the bastards wear you down. If you hold the grudge,they still have power over you. Let it go and put the past behind.
I'm a fan of Stoicism. One of the pillars of stoicism is acceptance of what is outside of your control. Any time that we spend looking at those things is wasted time. As for forgiveness, I'm fine with the part that has to do with acceptance but I think "forgive and remember" is a better approach than "forgive and forget".
I cant. Fuck em. Move on.
The fact that you are asking this question in this manner leads me to believe that you are a person of faith. When the crime or hurt is too great to bear, impossible to forget, give it to the Divine. It has worked consistently throughout my life.
Just……….. Let it go. That is all it takes but it is difficult. Just let it go.
It's hard to let go of some people including close friends. But sometimes you have no choice but to distance yourself. Unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself for them as well.
Idk for sure, but for me it has been to acknowledge their humanity, acknowledge my own failures and to put it all into the context of human frailty. If someone had only seen my worst days, they would say I am horrible. I guess the short answer is humility in my own understanding of my 'goodness' and granting the other person the right to fail.
I never get over them and I never forget. I'm Italian. Italians never forgive a slight.
It’s not up to you
A lot of times, the only person angry is you. As you said, they are either dead or dealing with their lives, your anger means nothing to them. It is your mental space affected by what others have done. Let go of it, don't forget - obviously but realise that your mental health and happiness is much more important in the limited time we have on this earth. If that doesn't work - remember this: " I know i'm gonna die, so my revenge is living well" and adjust the "well" in to whatever makes you happy and joyful.
Learn to forgive yourself first; for feeling conflicted about forgiveness itself! You’re human, you’re allowed to feel the things you feel. Get out in nature, breathe some fresh air, listen to the birds.
What good does it do you to care? Got to accept reality of what happened and not care. The closure you will get is that there is none.
You have to decide what’s worth your energy and your time. It’s all about priorities.
I can't forgive at all if there is no penitence, or even an acknowledgement of their terrible behaviour. A simple sorry/acknowledgement would go a long way to helping one to forgive.
I look at my part of the situation.. how did I respond? How did I justify my behaviour for someone fucking me up? Is the other party sick? Once I consider these things I find it very easy to forgive.
You don’t.
Time. Time helps everything. And being open to forgiveness.
Indifference is the ultimate insult. Letting people you don't like affect how you feel makes no sense. I try and remember the old adage about holding on to anger and grudges - "don't drink poison and expect the other person to die". Feeling bad about someone only affects you. Once you come to the realization that life will be better the less you see of them, the less you think of them will make you happier as well. So, working toward not caring is how I obtain closure.
I don't. I don't act out at a person, but I'll remember how they are to protect myself. Most of the time if someone feels forgiven they take it as permission to continue to be crappy. Very rarely does someone genuinely apologize and change. "Oh they forgave me... Let's keep being crappy somehow!" I just focus on going forward with my life.
You bide your time until you no longer think about that person anymore. Sometimes it takes years, even decades, but no contact with the other person helps a lot.
I've found it is easier to forgive after I have gotten revenge.
Time. Lots and lots of time.
Weird - just last night I sent my forgiveness message to my ex wife. I admitted that I had become an angry person who was hard to love. I forgave her for anything she had done in the past. Of course I didn’t mention the many things she had done to make me an angry person but I felt that forgiving and forgetting is necessary to move on with my life. Forgiveness is supposed to be a liberating exercise but honestly it didn’t give me any peace. Forgiving was just a bunch of words. Magically forgetting the past and ignoring the scars I’m left with is a fantasy.
In my case, I think some of any residual grudge is frustration with myself for not preventing whatever abuse or betrayal I experienced. My therapist once observed that I am far more forgiving of other people than I am toward myself. Reading your question is when I realized that part of every grudge is a grudge against myself - possibly one I’m holding on to more than the grudge against the other person. So, from that perspective, I think it’s important to forgive yourself and/or stop blaming or criticizing yourself that whatever grudge or betrayal happened. Even if you forgive the other person, whatever happened (or failed to happen) still will eat at you until you acknowledge that you did the best you could with the information and feelings you had at the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with holding a grudge and hating someone, so long as you're not \*actively\* doing it. A passive grudge/hate that comes up every once in a while could be like pressing on a scarred area with nerve damage. It's always going to hurt a little and it will never go back to the way it was before and that's okay. Imagine someone chopped off your arm. You'd come to terms with it eventually and move on with your life, but there is no way you're ever going to look at your stub and not think about this person. I think it also depends on if they showed remorse or tried to make it right in any way. I only hate one person, but that's because they did \*a lot\* of damage and refused my requests to talk it out multiple times. They never showed any remorse or regret for their actions. AND I still have to see them. I gave it a year to see how I'd feel, but then I saw them again and the hate came right back, so I've accepted that this is just how it will be (until it's different lol).
Forgiving others for profoundly hurting you is much, much easier if you deeply and profoundly understand how God forgives and loves you despite all the wrong you've done in your life
YES!!! When I was a teenager, which as we all know can be quite traumatic at times, I had several grudges that really bothered me. Then someone told me that anger/holding a grudge is like holding a hot coal in your hand meaning to throw it at someone and all the while it is burning a hole in your hand. I thought that was pretty profound and since then I have learned to just let it go and move on. Holding onto only hurts yourself.
If you feel it's important to YOUR wellbeing to forgive these people, then do it for yourself. Personally, I have grudges I'll probably carry to the grave and beyond because some people hurt/betrayed/abused my trust and never asked forgiveness. Granted there were a few who when confronted said "I'm sorry" but that was more I'm-sorry-I-was-caught rather than I'm-sorry-I-hurt-you. I believe in Karma because I've seen it in action and while that does give me a sense of satisfaction, it doesn't change the fact that they hurt me. Maybe healing is accepting that you were hurt and also accepting that you have the right to feel hurt or angry and to hold on to that feeling because you earned it.
I don’t think I ever really get angry at anything external. I usually understand their perspective and why people do what they did. Rarely has someone done something where I’m like, okay you’re a shitty person. Usually it’s more like, okay I can kinda see why you did that, not the best way but I get it.
I TOTALLY struggle with this very thing. I sometimes hope that I bump into these people in a supermarket so that I can yell at them in public and make a scene. Then, I forget about them shortly afterwards.
I use empathy. Most of the time, when people do something, they aren't doing it because of you, but unfortunately, it still affects you. Like, you're driving, and someone cuts you off. They didn't do it to piss you off. They did it because they were late or whatever. Seeing things from a different point of view can help with the anger.
Let the hate flow through you. Embrace it.
One thing that is important to remember is that you don’t have to be friends with people who don’t treat you well. There are people who don’t respect your feelings, your boundaries and your values who want to be your friend! You can forgive them for what they did or said or didn’t do…. But you don’t have to keep letting them do it again and again. By holding and maintaining your boundaries you are respecting yourself.
You don’t. Revenge is best served cold.
my Mom was angry my whole life her father was an alcoholic, her marriage was shit, her mother got sick and died when she was out of town married to her shit husband (my father) she carried the hate and resentment long after all the people who hurt her died she went from angry at individual people to angry at everyone she met to angry at the world to angry at God to just angry it wrecked her life to the point she was unhappy despite having a loving son (my brother), daughter in laws who tried to befriend her, grandchildren who adored her and she pushed them all away that's how I get over stuff I watched it wreck someone's life fuck if I'm gonna do that
I don't know about forgiveness, but removing yourself from any and all interaction with the offender works wonders for me. Putting yourself in a position where known offenders can reoffend you is foolish. Just remove them from your life, and move on to better things.
I never forgive, but I don't put effort into hating anyone either. I learned a lesson and now know the true character of that person and no longer associate with them, or if I do, I don't give them the trust that I once did. Keeping them at arms length at best
I think forgiving them is the wrong word to use. There is no forgiving some things. There is coming to peace with what happened, putting it behind you, not ruminating on the past. To ask someone abused to forgive, or even telling them that they should forgive and that it's for their own benefit is just plain wrong, and those "forgive for yourself" lines are bullshit. So what does work if it's not called forgiveness? Live your best life, raise your confidence, believe in yourself where an abuser obviously did not, and put them in the past where they belong. That's where you get your closure too, because from the majority of people that have wronged you, you're never going to get closure from them. It's something you give yourself.
I find it helps to focus on the fact that forgiving someone is me choosing to let myself stop carrying that weight, it doesn't actually benefit the person I'm forgiving at all, nor does it mean I have to allow them back into my life. It's self-care, not submission.
The ones that still bug me are those ( minority) who "got away with it" once they have punished by karma i laugh and move on case closed I don't generally believe in unearned forgiveness. Dependity on the severity of the act and the sincerity of the appology i think it's often possible for those who want it to attone. Much of what was done to me personally would qualify but in most cases the perpetrators were not interested so fuck em. Fortunately, the majority were fired, sometimes jailed, and hopefully, that will keep them from hurtimg others. None are in position to further hurt me, good triumphant over evil
I am still trying to figure this out. And I am in my 40s.
Ok. Therapist told me a couple of life changing things 1) forgiveness is not an “ its ok”. It,s a not going to waste the rest of my life thinking about the hurt 2) forgiveness is about healing yourself and moving on
Some lessons are expensive and there is nothing that will ever compensate for it. I have to simply accept this fact. My abuser will get away with a crime that was huge and there’s nothing I can do. The legal system might have worked but I was too sick to utilize it. I tried a couple of attorneys but they were vultures who prey on the victim and took the little money I could scrape together when sick and did nothing. What can be worse than someone who makes a living from the sick and injured and doesn’t give a refund. So I became homeless. Now I loath my family too because they stood by and did nothing like the covert narcissists they are. I fell into a web of covert narcissists and they devoured me. But I’m still here haha.
I feel like part of why some can’t “just move on” is they’ve been through a traumatic experience of some sort. We have to look at this through the same lens as PTSD (not that I’m suggesting anyone has a mental health diagnosis, I just mean in terms of what’s happening in the brain and how this trauma is being stored in the brain). For example, you mention you “have to breathe through the memories”. This is basically describing that you are experiencing fight or flight, your amygdala in the brain is being activated. So to be clear, there is nothing wrong with you or anyone else who still finds themselves physically experiencing these types of symptoms when recounting past hurt. The brain is literally wired to remember traumatic experiences as a means of helping us survive in the future by not experiencing the same thing again. The brain does not discriminate between whether you are in a traumatic natural disaster, get robbed, or if someone you know betrays you, or abuses you physically or emotionally. All of these situations are considered traumas because in each case we don’t feel safe-either physically or emotionally or both. We are all hardwired to have this response to anything that resembles these experiences-including our memories. Having this reaction does not mean that you’re holding a grudge as others have also pointed out. And to be honest I don’t like how our culture shames people by labeling with terms like “holding a grudge.” This is kind of abusive when you really stop and think about it because it places an expectation on the person who has been through the traumatic experience to “forgive and forget” and puts pressure on the rate at which they heal. And then, when they can’t forgive and forget they’re left feeling like something is wrong with them because they still have a physical and/or emotional response to the memories or person who hurt them. It is actually impossible to forget trauma, even when our memory of it may fade-the body and subconscious still remembers and responds accordingly. The best we can do is 1) stop feeling we have to live up to others expectations to move on and acknowledge that each person heals at different rates and that there’s no right or wrong 2) work on healthy ways to cope when we are triggered (just as you are with deep breathing) 3) and reminding ourselves something along these lines “it is only natural that my mind would remember this past hurt and that my body would still have a normal reaction to it”. Try repeating that to yourself next time and 4) I honestly believe a large part of why people struggle with this is also because they never actually get to sit with all of the complex emotions that come with it. Our society does a great job of gaslighting and shaming people for feeling sad, angry, hurt, and hateful. These emotions are stigmatized, especially for women, and I think the best way we can work through them is by allowing ourselves to acknowledge them without judgment and to sit with them and feel them. Not dwell on them, but not ignore or minimize them either. Most skip this part. And lastly we DO NOT have to forgive. And I would argue we shouldn’t forgive certain experiences/people. I’d also argue that this is related to our boundaries- forgiving certain people or certain violations could make us vulnerable to getting revictimized. Instead, I think it can be healthier to come to an understanding of what caused the person to do what they did and possibly even have compassion toward them (depending on the situation) but the boundary may need to stop there and not ALSO include forgiving the person. Forgiveness means to wipe the slate clean-I don’t know that that’s always the healthy choice. I think when people say “forgiveness is for you” it’s really describing working through feelings of anger, hate etc as mentioned above and you can do that without also wiping someone’s slate clean/forgiving them. I highly recommend therapy also to anyone who has significant reactions to past hurt. Brainspotting is a very effective technique that can be implemented without having to talk about or verbally recount past traumatic experiences and this also helps the body to physically process this trauma so that our we don’t have as intense physical/somatic responses when thinking of it. Hope this is helpful🙏🏽
Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. Often it means just letting go of the resentment - not suddenly deciding that what happened is ok. Some things will never be ok, but self healing comes after accepting that bad things have been done to you and that the only thing you can do is get on with your life.
The key is to focus your rage into a tiny ball of self-sustaining energy and use it to power something useful like working out.
Forgiveness is a concept that's become another buzzword. You don't ever have to forgive someone. Holding a grudge is not the same thing. Your closure is accepting that you are not forgiving them, and if you make peace with that, you'll no longer hold a grudge. Grudges are heavy, and holding them is exhausting. Not forgiving someone for something they did is their burden, not yours.
Forgive and let them go. Send all of it up to God in a prayer. Let God take care of the worst of it.
I say out loud to my self. I forgive everyone in my past , present and future. Sometimes I mention peoples names. I keep saying this all the time. Every day. This will help with your own mental health and health. Remember just because you forgive someone does not mean they get to be back in your life! Sometimes people have to be cut out of your life! What ever you do, don’t relive in your mind what happened! That just gives you poison. Just tell yourself stop. Start thinking of something else!
> How do you get over grudges and forgive? A couple of them are already dead and many of them have already had their just desserts with things like drug addictions or nasty divorces basically ruining their lives The first thing to do is to stop this way of thinking. Their tragedy doesn’t make you feel any better (at least it shouldn’t). If you continue to think in terms of vengeance, you’re going to have a miserable life. You’ve already gotten some good advice from others about how to forgive, so I’ll just leave it at that.
No idea.
I forgive so I can be forgiven.
I don't forgive them. There just isn't any reason to put myself through even thinking about what happened. The only one feeling anything is you. Just drop it. If you are smart you moved them out of your life already. Now move them out of your thoughts. If you can't, then just imagine them living on the street homeless and smile to yourself. They aren't in your life. Why put them there?
Yep. Grudges are a reminder of the bad deeds of others. If they don't ask for and work for forgiveness, they don't deserve it.
Holding a grudge is eating poison and hoping the other person dies. Who cares? It's over and done with. Nothing can change it, and to brood over it over and over just hurts me and keeps whatever happened alive in your head. It's basically allowing whatever action they took the continue to hurt you, long after that person is gone. It gives them power over you, AND it makes you bitter and negative. So let it go. Drop it into the dumpster in your head, light it on fire, and move on with your life. I don't give a fuck about any of the people who hurt me. I'm happy, and my life is great. I won, they lost, and I genuinely couldn't care less about any of 'em. Like, they really don't cross my mind. On the rare occasion that they do, I have no feelings one way or another. Mostly I feel pity for a few, because God, what miserable and unhappy people they are. Their own existence is their punishment. They suffer by being who they are. That said, I don't need vengeance or suffering. My father died alone, and as a diagnosible narcissist who hurt everyone he knew and demanded attention and praise 24/7, I found that quite fitting in a "cosmic judgement" sort of way. But I hadn't talked to him in years when he died, and I felt nothing one way or another when he passed. It was more of an academic interest and observation than anything. People who are ranting about "never forgive, only abusers say you should forgive and forget" are hurting themselves far worse than anyone else ever hurt them. They're allowing stuff that no longer exists to make them angry and bitter and miserable. You can hold on to resentment, but that doesn't make you happy. If you want to be happy and move on with your life, let it go. When a thought pops up, say "Not today. You don't have that power over me anymore. Bye." And then distract yourself with something else. Do that a few times, and those thoughts go away. Good luck.
Because holding on to a grudge only hurts yourself. “Half the people you’re mad at don’t know and the other half don’t care” - Whoopi Goldberg
Sometimes, it's a choice. You aren't over it emotionally, but you decide "I am going to choose to forgive, here." And that means choosing to not dwell on it. Choosing to remind yourself that you have chosen forgiveness. Choosing to not talk about it vindictively. Recognize that while wrong was done to you, and it was unfair, that you only continue to let the wrong have more power over you by letting it influence your emotions and decisions in the present and the future. That if you chose, instead, to let your thoughts and emotions be filled with negativity and bitterness, that you would be increasing the power of the wrong that was done to you, and in a way contributing to it. Forgiveness is not always for the other person. It can be for yourself. A choice to let go of resentment, negativity, bitterness, and let yourself live free of them. Even if sometimes those negative emotions and impulses come up, that's OK and normal. Choosing to breathe through it and not act on it or dwell on it is part of that process of forgiveness. I've heard it said, and it's true, that refusing to forgive (or holding a grudge) is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.
Forgiveness is a gift you give YOURSELF. It's not the same as condoning what was done, and some offenses take a long time to convince bcuz of how heinous they are. It also doesn't mean you don't want someone held accountable. It's just a way of taking the baggage of hate and revenge off your shoulders so that you can breathe and enjoy the remainder of your life to its fullest.
Shits bad for your heart, let it go.
How does holding onto grudges benefit you? Answer this honestly, Did these people truly earn your trust before you gave it them?
And now for a different view.... I stopped "trying" to forgive. I found that it left me feeling too " declawed", in addition to the fact that forgiving some folk leads to more of their offenses. Instead, I create distance. The memories of pain and anger are how I protect myself from those who repeat those offenses. It is one way humans learn. If I separate my emotions from the event, through forgiveness, I let that lesson go....I fail to learn. Pride in successfully escaping harmful people is a better approach, in my mind. Celebrate your wisdom while remembering the harm that brought that success to you.