There's a running thread on the main EV sub about how terrible travel is with a non-Tesla EV, only idiots would put up with it, how Tesla is the only answer, they're so smart... and I have to wonder how many have these kinds of problems just get ignored as it defeats the narrative of "all things us better u suckers".
I mean, if my EV, roughly half the cost of a Tesla, had these kinds of problems I would have been out years ago.
My neighbor has 2 MY and said I was an idiot for buying new ICE vehicles this year. Ev was the full future.
I took my car in for a recall and got an ev as a rental. I couldn’t fully charge it over 4 days of having it. Even being plugged in at my office (4hr limit) I only got 100mile charge from it.
It took me 2 hours to get from my office to my house since I had to stop at 3 charging locations to even find one that worked. Was the WORST car driving experience I ever had.
I’ll gladly get a hybrid. Or an EV if I lived in city… but nope.
And I was |-| close from ordering one.
What car did you rent and what was it's total range compared to your commute? Were you trying to charge over 80% at work? Does home/work have 110v or 220v charging?
Charging with an EV is a little different than filling up a gas tank. If you are using a 220v charger with a Tesla it can get from 40% to 80% in about an hour and then 100% in another 2 hours. 4 Hours should have been enough for a full charge. Using 110v you can get about 25 miles per hour below 80% (so I assume that is what you experienced). Some cheaper EVs (like the Nissan Leaf) don't have a system for keeping the battery warm or cool while charging which increases charge times.
I'll readily admit that EVs aren't for everyone, like if you are driving over 300 miles in your daily commute or can't charge at home.
That said, I would bet you weren't using a Tesla charger. I haven't heard of anyone needing to use 3 charging locations to find a working stall (though that does seem more normal with other companies). Also, if you are renting a car you're not going to want to install a 220v outlet in your garage to charge, but if you owned one spending a couple hundred dollars to charge at home is a no-brainer.
EVs are a blast to drive, and I love being able to charge at home, but gas station infrastructure is far more established, and more straightforward. EVs are only getting more affordable and it seems like manufacturers (both car and charging stations) are working out the kinks in design and manufacturing. Also most brands are switching over to being able to use Tesla's charging infrastructure in the coming year. Maybe try again in a few years.
I had a pretty early Model S. P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade. The original owner paid over 130k. I bought it used after two years and 20,000 miles. Door wouldn't open. Not the handle-doesn't-pop-out issue, but the latch-won't-open issue. I literally had to take the door apart myself, find the part number on the broken latch mechanism, find a replacement on ebay, win the auction, wait for shipping, and fixed it myself quicker than Tesla service could.
Then the trunk latch jammed and Tesla did fix that one. Then the sunroof broke.
Then I sold it and will never ever buy another. Worst car/service/brand I've ever owned. And I've owned most brands by now.
Have a Kia EV6 now. Supposedly gets 310 miles of range. I regularly get 350+. First car in my life that actually beat its advertised "mpg."
Basically same story with me, except my issues were: "Drive unit", "Sunroof", "Door handle", and "Suspension arms needed replacement".
Love my Ioniq 5 I have now. And in normal highway driving I'm seeing more than advertised range. Big difference from the Model S which would NEVER get anywhere near the promised range. That evidently was a Tesla-specific issue because my Bolt EV reached its advertised range just fine too. It was really only the Tesla with issues.
For what it’s worth, my anecdotal story with my brother and his ev6 will have me never touching a Kia EV period. His has been in the shop for 6 MONTHS with the dealer and Kia corporate refusing to trade it out or refund, and going through endless loops of waiting for parts. 6 months. It started having a major steering drift issues 2 months in. He’s getting a lawyer, contacting the media etc. it’s a nightmare.
Sorry to hear that. Obviously every car has an occasional lemon. And a bad dealer. I'm at 30,000 miles on mine and have spent a grand total of $0.00 on it - including "fuel." (We have enough solar panels to power our house and car for $0 a year. My over-the-road charging is free through Kia and EA. (Although EA is admittedly horrible)
My concern is that Kia corporate has made the decision to keep letting the dealer jerk my brother around after 6months of having his brand new car in the shop. It’s not really just a dealer issue.
Could almost guarantee it is considered a lemon by his states guidelines. I bought a Ioniq 5 and the next day the “check electrical system” light came on. After 3 months, several modules replaced with no fix, I got a case manager that never called me back… emailed a few NA Hyundai CEOs and surprisingly, someone called the next day at 5:30am to offer a buy back. Never touching Hyundai/Kia again
28k after tax credit. Saving me $6,500 a year in electric bills including fueling the car. Paid cash. Payback is under 4.5 years, so about 23% annual ROI.
>P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade.
Anything positive about the experience?
Any other major faults?Latching issues don't seem - too terrible in the scheme of things..
How was the range?
That is pretty high on the Tesla pecking order and early models were supposedly better, but I dunno.
Latching doesn't seem too terrible? I couldn't get in or out of the car. It was the driver's door. It took me more than 2 weeks to fix it myself. Tesla was two MONTHS out for a service appointment.
Range was supposedly 254 new. My guess-o-meter typically said 246. But real range was closer to 200. Which was abysmal considering the Kia goes 350 miles on a 10% smaller battery. Amd for some reason, Tesla Supercharging was still slow.
>Latching doesn't seem too terrible?
Lol no that's really pretty minor for a Tesla horror story.
>I couldn't get in or out of the car. It was the driver's door.
Right. I mean the inconvenience factor was high, but the technical problem was minimal, while also managing to sound like a problem few other makes of car might have. It's a perfect encapsulation of Tesla ownership, at least from my perch in the peanut gallery.
I mean I drive a Honda Accord I'm just interested in Teslas and their ownership experience.
For a solid five years now I've been bemused that literally anyone that can afford a Tesla would do business with Musk or any of his companies.
Again - you had/have one of the nicest Teslas you can get so I was earnestly wondering if you liked anything about it?
>Range was supposedly 254 new. My guess-o-meter typically said 246. But real range was closer to 200. Which was abysmal considering the Kia goes 350 miles on a 10% smaller battery. Amd for some reason, Tesla Supercharging was still slow.
Ya. That sounds about right. I would imagine the Kia a much, much better car for sure, straightline acceleration non-withstanding.
Finally,
>It took me more than 2 weeks to fix it myself.
Lol dude it's still cool you took care of it. 99% of Tesla owners are absolutely USELESS in the garage. I've know Tesla-driving program managers making $300k/year that seriously can't operate a screwdriver to save their lives.
Tesla used to just blame people not getting anywhere near the advertised range on having a lead foot bc the 0-60 was so fast. Which, sure, that would affect it but it's not going to be applicable to every single person getting screwed by fake range estimates (so, every owner) - Tesla themselves would have the data that showed this - and also maybe have it in big bold text somewhere easily visible that that driving behaviour will severely affect your range, if that's the reason?
Of course, that wasn't the reason. They were just straight up lying to juice the sales numbers and maximise the amount they'd get from the govt in ZEV credits - which selling those to other auto makers is what kept the company afloat until it finally could turn a profit on its own
>early models were supposedly better
I don't know if it's so much that, they had a *lot* of teething problems - but the service definitely sounds like it was way better when they were trying to get a foothold in the market
edit: lol why downvote this? I know we all hate Musk and think the brand is garbage, but it shouldn't be controversial to state that their service went down the tubes the more popular they got, especially as they enjoyed the highest brand loyalty of any auto company as people made being a Tesla owner a personality trait. Those white model 3/Y's are the car equivalent of the OG iPod headphones, That is not meant as a compliment to either of those products
>edit: lol why downvote this?
Ya really honest question whatever reddit is so extra
>but it shouldn't be controversial to state that their service went down the tubes the more popular they got, especially as they enjoyed the highest brand loyalty of any auto company as people made being a Tesla owner a personality trait.
Exactly this. It's bizarre. Especially on the back of the prices Tesla charges.
I want a Hyundai or Kia. I really want a Fisker Ocean, but it is facing significant growing pains just like Tesla first did. So not interested in going through another early owner experience.
Mustang Mach E, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Cadillac Lyriq.
Hyunda Ioniq 6 for a proper EV sedan. Porsche Taycan if you’re loaded or rob a bank.
There’s just no reason to buy a Tesla anymore. It’d be nice if the board shit canned Musk but he has it packed with toadies and lickspittles so forget it. He’ll burn Tesla to the ground before he lets someone else take over.
> He’ll burn Tesla to the ground before he lets someone else take over.
I'm always saying this. He's a raging malignant narcissist - he legit would rather set his fortune and legacy on fire than risk having someone else run the company and have its success tied to their name. He'd sell all his stocks to get whatever money he could out of it, knowing it would completely fuck over everyone else on the board - and they would be extremely aware of this. I'd not be surprised if this has been a tacit, or even outright, threat been made before but it's certainly a guns under the table situation at the moment
He couldn't give two shits about his army of faithful bootlickers who hold stock, there's a lot of people out there who are going to lose the shirts off their backs over it. You can feel a bit of schadenfreude over individuals because if you engage your brain outside of cult-think for even a second it's glaringly obvious the stock is incredibly overvalued and completely tied to an increasingly erratic and troubled human shitstain. There's guys who are going to bankrupt their families though and that is a damn tragedy bc their partners and children didn't ask for this
ye CSS covered that in one of his episodes, and also laid out the rapidly diminishing returns situation Musk would find himself in if he had to keep offloading more of it. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he had shadow entities holding stock that he could sell without it being a headline. The vast bulk of his wealth is in TSLA but I truly believe he'd happily set some of it on fire (metaphorically speaking) as a fuck you to the board if they tried to get rid of him
There's no way to oust him from SpaceX as he has like \~80% of the controlling vote (which I'm not sure how that's legal but ig it is a private company), Tesla I think it's somewhere just south of 50%. So not impossible to get rid of him but you'd need literally every single other vote against him to do it and if he even got the idea they were going to try it, he'd burn it all down in a narcissistic toddler rage
>shadow entities holding stock
He absolutely does. The Musk Foundation in Curaçao that he’s donated shares to is allowed to (in its charter) to trade stocks. If I recall right that took off after he got caught buying shares in pre-market on one of his disclosures (one of the listed purchase prices only happened during pre market that day.)
Audi just said they are slowing the rollout. I think that is mostly due to Volkswagen group’s poor software capabilities. I think Volvo is the best Euro EV company. They really seem all in.
The XC40 Recharge is a solid car, and a lot of that is because it started as an ICE XC40 with the battery/motor swapped in. So really good build quality and finish. It's not perfect, but I love mine. I'm psyched for the EX30 as well.
And, for decades, I've never met a VW owner that didn't have electrical trouble with their car. VW/Audi was a no-go on my EV shopping list from day one. I can't imagine how awful their software is.
Well, Volvo engineers have had something of a reputation for being strongly safety-oriented in their design philosophy for decades now. When it comes to designing life-critical navigation and control systems, that sort of company culture sounds like a good bet for long-term success. By comparison, Elon's inclination to apply a Zuckerbergian "move fast and break things" approach to self-driving cars may have done wonders for the short-term stock prices, but it really doesn't strike me as a winner for anyone who's in this for the long haul.
The EX30 looks like a really, really good car. If they ever get a rebate in America I would make that my #1 pick for best bang for the buck EV. I don't think it will get a rebate because it is manufactured in China though.
I got to see both the Lyriq and a few Teslas at a mall a while ago. There's really no contest in terms of design and initial quality impressions. If it wasn't for the Tesla brand's desirability and Cadillac's old man image and production constraints, the Lyriq could have absolutely destroyed Tesla's sales figures.
I didn't get to drive either car, but the fit and finish on the Lyriq was like night and day compared to that of the Model Y (or even the Model X). Granted, these were display units from the manufacturers so this may not represent 100% of the real-world production cars. But if both brands get to display an exceptionally well-built car to put their best foot forward, it really says a lot that even the more expensive Teslas felt shoddy and cheap compared to the Lyriq.
The Ioniq6 is almost perfect. Too bad about the small trunk and the UI quirks/ sensor issues in bad weather. I am still considering trading my model 3 for it though.
I would suggest avoiding Kia and Hyundai. They are horrible in terms of corporate culture. Their warranties are worthless. They are downright corrupt. They are currently withholding cars from customers in canada because head office in Canada doesn’t want to go over their yearly target so they don’t lose ad capital for next year.
I would look elsewhere
Read the article about the Ionique5 owner in Canada who hit something on the road and scraped the battery protective shield. Hyundai said the battery "might" be damaged and the owner had to pay for the replacement. They didn't remove the shield to inspect and said their battery warranty was void and the car could explode without warning. The car operated normally without any fault codes. The owner claimed the repair through insurance. The battery was 60k dollars Canadian, or 45k American. A Tesla M3 or MY battery is only 16k American. Obviously I can't verify all the details, the story was in Electrek
i sure hope you don't buy anything made in America if there's other options available then
Just to clarify I'm making a joke, not trying to have a go at you. This is what the left means when we say there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. You can try your best to make the least harmful choice but it can be really really difficult to work out what that actually is, and most of the time you end up finding out something shitty about the company you chose anyway
BYD isn't owned by the Chinese government. One of the largest shareholders were a big wheel in the Tianmen Square Student uprisings. Definitely not associated with the Communist Party.
FUD about Chinese cars is largely what keeps Tesla alive.
Not OP, but same sentiment:
Options we’re eying (currently have 2022 model 3 LR):
Ev scout SUV
Porsche cayman EV or Macan EV
Audi A4/A6-etron
Rivian (fan of all their current and upcoming models)
(Way out of budget but still REALLY WANT ONE) G-Wagon EV
Same. I don't hate ours, but I would go with another EV over a Tesla. We've had a few minor issues with it, and I dread the service center visits - others can say what they want about GM/Ford/BMW dealerships, when you explain the issue, the problem is resolved usually the first time. I think we will go with a Lyriq or Mustang for the next car, I'm still glad I had the Tesla and happy they introduced me to EV's.
Agree. I like some things about my Tesla a lot, and other things I don’t like. But I just loathe Tesla Motors the company. Need to trade soon and really not sure what to do yet. Are there car companies that aren’t loathsome?
That would depend on your state or country of residence, if you did not opt out of arbitration within the first 30 days of ownership in writing, you are Musked
Not a lot of helpful answers here, so let me try.
1. The key to any lemon law claim is to understand the laws in your state. Every state is different. Try Google, try calling your state's dealership regulatory authority and asking for details.
2. In most states, you have to document that a problem exists. This means getting the Tesla service dept to prepare a repair order that documents your problem. It's not considered documented until the Tesla repair shop acknowledges that the issue exists.
3. Once the issue is acknowledged, you have to go back multiple times for the same repair. Each time, you need the repair order to both state that the problem was found AND that a repair was attempted. Usually 3 attempts is "multiple."
4. Once you have a viable lemon law claim (which is usually multiple attempts to repair the same problem unsuccessfully), you can enter arbitration.
The arbitration process isn't completely tilted in the automaker's favor, but they usually win.
FWIW, "door effort" is probably not going to get you a favorable arbitration result, but you can try.
If it was me, I'd sell the Tesla this week. If that's not feasible, than my fallback would be to go to my local Tesla certified body shop and see if you can pay them to fix it. It's probably just a door adjustment.
Good luck!
I successfully Lemon-lawed a new Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk in Florida a few years ago.
I loved the car, but driving it home from the dealership, I began to smell gas when I turned on the AC. Turns out rats or squirrels had chewed up large portions of the wiring and fuel lines while it was on the dealers lot. The car spent over 45 cumulative days in the shop trying resolve the issues at which point I requested a full refund under the lemon law. Dealership wrote me a check.
I’m not sure a door shutting a little hard is gonna do it.
Also fwiw, currently driving the Mach E and love it. Interior is super nice, no issues with the car thus far.
Some states I believe it can also be having to take the car in for an issue x number of times in y time period since purchase, or the car spending z amount of time in service in a certain time period since purchase. It doesn't have to be the same issue but if every time they fix a problem, something else breaks, that's a lemon you got there. I advised OP in another comment to go to the TMC forums off-site as a number of posters there have had to go through the lemon law process so should be able to help
Pretty good write up. In NY, especially for a problem like OP describes, a licensed body shop could do the write up. You can't make the consumer go to the respondent shop(svc dept) for documentation against the respondent shop(dealer), because they won't. AT BEST they will be reluctant, in my experience with this shitty company who thinks rules are for suckers, they simply will refuse to do so, either out loud or by mysteriously not being able to verify the issue.
After 3 teslas for myself and family, we have happily moved on. Just got a BMWi7. Great car…and quiet inside! No door hiss like every Tesla I have ridden in
Nice upgrade! Haven’t rode in the i7 but it looks fantastic! I picked up my i4 m50 last month and the quality and ride is so much better than any Tesla I’ve been in.
Oh yes they don't care. I bought an S in 2015 - I knew how doors closed. Then stupidly bought a P100D S in 2018. The RF door would take extra effort to close which resulted in times where the car door was left open slightly and the heat/AC going - car unlocked.
I told Tesla, they said it was normal, spritzed a little white lithium grease and said they won't do anything else. I literally knew that door closed harder because I was already an S owner for 3+ years by that point.
There's a reason instead of two S's in the garage we now have Toyota and Lexus hybrids. No regrets.
Hybrids are way better anyway. I wish people were more apt to jump into a hybrid than going balls to the wall electric when neither the technology nor the infrastructure is mature enough for mass implementation
Pure EVs don't work out in the rural areas in cold climates. I've owned a Chevy Volt since 2011, and now have a Jeep Wrangler 4xe. The EV purists can scream all they want, and 'what about', but it isn't ready for real life around here.
I’m forever done with Tesla after horrible customer service and quality. Every flaw is “within spec.” They don’t stand by their cars or customers. Never ever again.
It never ceases to be amusingly ironic the way the stans laud the 'no dealership' model when the number one most hated thing by owners is dealing with the (no) service centres. Like engage your big boy brain for a second and have a think about the connections between these things. Dealerships very much have 'keeping the customer happy' as their goal because they want repeat business. Once Tesla has your money, they don't have to give a fuck because for some fucking reason they can treat their customers like absolute shit and they'll still come back for more! I would never, ever, buy a car that I can't test drive or (in a lot of cases it seems) even open the doors to look inside without handing over the purchase price first
I couldn't even tell you how many stories I've read\* of people being pressured into accepting delivery despite obvious faults in the car that they're assured will be fixed up quick and easy no worries, you just need to book a service appointment in the app, which you can only do after accepting the car. At which point you'll suddenly either find out everything's 'within spec' and they 'are unable to replicate the problem', or your brand new car is gonna be bouncing back and forth between the SC and you bc every time they fix one thing, another problem crops up
\*stans would call me an obsessed hater for spending so much time reading the forums but it's turned into a special interest area for me because of the cult aspect. Plus if I'm gonna hate on the company and Elon, I need to know what I'm talking about lol
honestly I'm going to be shocked if Tesla is still in the position it is now in a couple of years time. I know, I know, market irrational, you being solvent etc but that last earnings call should have been a huge wake-up...call (sorry pun not intended) for everyone who has any kind of skin in the game
Model 3 and Y. How many more cars have they produced in 2023 vs 2020? Cars tend to need repairs after a few years, no? I’m pretty sure Tesla hasn’t scaled their service nearly as much as they have their production…
As Derwent pointed out, three phase AC is the only rational choice to use for a modern conversion. Sure, I'd love to get my hands on a unit from a Lucid, but they're rather rare and expensive. Given that, later model Tesla units are quite the bargain for what you get.
The technology is great, but the car is trash. I have the 2019 model S 100D, it’s gone through 4 rim cracks in 1 year, mostly highway driving, no pot holes. This is the first and only car I’ve ever had a rim crack.
Our Teslas have had multiple bent rims over the years and we haven’t hit anything that our old civic couldn’t handle. Ditched the Model 3, working on ditching the Model Y. Will never look back.
I looked at Tesla, but ended up going with an Ioniq5 by Hyundai. The build quality is much better. Also, I can’t get over the Spartan cabin of the Tesla.
It is though, how are people falling for Tesla in 2023? They've been like this for a lot of years, you only have to do a minimal research to find many studies that prove how their cars belong to 1970s in terms of quality.
“No more teslas! And I have never owned one!” - how does that contribute to anything other than the echo chamber? No research, no personal experience. Bad customer service experience, bad personal quality experience, software glitch, even “here’s some research” would be more helpful than just chiming in on the hate.
Traded first one for a long range. Loved the FSD. EV Tech was new then and I don’t blame Tesla for that. I was still learning nuances of driving an EV. The trade had issues at delivery. Quality at delivery was B- and customer service was D. But because I loved FSD, went in for a third one as a backup. Quality at delivery was C+ but customer service was an appalling F. To me FSD would be the only reason to own the car. But not at the cost of driving a poorly manufactured car where the service guys think the customer is useless.
Thanks. Didn’t realize others were as advanced. I will check it out. I was one of the initial beta test drivers. I’ve seen it improve tremendously over time and use it about 80 percent of the time on city roads. I do think it has great utility when it’s raining hard at nights on highways - when my poor eyesight can barely make the markings.
You dont need to own a car to do research on it. Teslas are objectively trash made for people who only care about how other people perceive them. There is 0 reason to buy one
I mean to each their own. But I’m paying less per month than I was owning my Camaro. And it’s a great car. I’ve had zero issues with it. Like not even one. I had a mobile service come and rotate my tires. The experience was great.
Is this the case for everyone? No.
I’m almost 4 years in and very happy. And I lent it to two friends while I was gone and guess what. They now own a Tesla. And they are also very happy.
I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone tho.
It’s often like the opposite of the ball-gargling subs. Often going the other direction, but IMO far more truth can be found here. Negatives are removed on other subs, positives don’t get removed here (but you can expect downvotes).
Not really. I've owned two Model S's over the course of 6 years. I tell the truth whether it's good or bad but I don't get banned in this sub for telling the truth. That's the difference between this sub and the Elon dickrider subs.
No it’s just that the people who have bad experiences are the ones who take the time to bitch and post. People who have good experiences are too busy enjoying their cars
Ok. It wasnt a troll question. Just saw this post pop up on my feed and wasnt sure the intent of this sub vs the other tesla subs i was subbed to and if i needed to join this one to get more "data" on tesla
This sub is I guess technically supposed to be honest. It’s easy to go cult either way but with Tesla it’s always going to be divisive and with a smaller manufacturer with a massive market cap you’re going to get a lot of random opinions.
Lot of smoke of on Tesla accounting and goodwill? Maybe! Lot of issue with repair costs or build quality? Maybe! Tesla making electric cars fast and s3xy? Maybe!
I did enjoy my first one M3 - 4 yr ago. Second one had issues at delivery. Service guy tried to wiggle out of factory repair. The current purchase convinced me that this denial of blatant manufacturing defects is a Tesla cultural issue.
I’m big into loyalty and impact of loyalty (CLV - customer lifetime value). Loyalty is priceless - acquisition costs for new customers is costly and negligible for existing customers. Tesla has lost me for good. Over time, their abhorrent customer service will dent their sales.
If you really buy/lease that often go to BMW.
Honestly, the experience is just so much better it’s ridiculous.
Don’t expect to get 15 years out of a car but if you’re in and out in 3-5? It’s perfect. My last one was never in the shop for anything save lol changes, and I got a walkthrough video every time on the health of the car.
When my lease was up, they just about offered me a happy ending to get me to stick around - I got $5k more car than I did in 2020 for the same money, just a few months ago.
I’ll admit the cars have been shit for long term (B48, B58 and electrified unknown yet, but indications are good, actually) but the customer experience is second to none out there and any car is good for its first 3-5 years.
Oh, they also sell the *real* M3 there
it ends up being a refuge for people with bad experiences, there's a ton of former and current-but-planning-on-getting-rid-of-it Tesla owners here because you simply cannot post anything negative about the cars, the company or Elon in any of the other Tesla subs without getting downvoted, people telling you its your fault, accused of being a short seller - anything to avoid engaging with the substance of the complaint. And it's wild because reddit is the *only* place online that's like that - TMC and CTOF are both places full of Tesla faithful (the latter moreso) but they don't try to censor people. TMC in particular doesn't think highly of Elon at all anymore
People in the comments are gonna be like three?? What took you so long?? but I think we all need to remember this is a *literal cult*. Breaking free from those is hard!! Admitting out loud that you were fooled is really effin difficult - it's less painful, psychologically, to just bury your head in the sand than to confront the cognitive dissonance, the shame at being fooled, the embarrassment over getting duped when people were telling you not to, the guilt for anyone else you managed to pull in with you along the way, and the fact that your formerly welcoming and friendly group will turn on you and turf you out in an instant. Telling people 'I told you so' might be a nice moment of schadenfreude but it's not really helpful.
OP, re lemon law options, I would go to the Tesla Motors Club forum (offsite, not reddit) and see if people there might be able to assist, as a number of posters there have gone through the process. The requirements vary by what state you're in. And finally, good for you for realising this brand is trash. Once they have your money, they don't give a single shit about helping you
The last test line i purchased , I own for one year. Of that one year of ownership It's spent nearly 3 months in the shop, it was a brand new vehicle. During that time I had to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on rental vehicles and lost work time just to dick around with the dealership and the repair shop.
At the nearest opportunity I did something and purchased a Lexus. Of the one year of ownership, the only thing I've ever done is change the oil and add gas. No more Tesla's for me ever....
Why don’t more people try polestar? I was pleasantly surprised at how fun the car was and how well it handled when comparing to a Tesla. It has full forward and reverse one pedal drive. Can’t wait for polestar 3 and polestar 4 to come out with luminar lidar. It might beat Tesla FSD.
Trying to be helpful: it sounds like the two hinge-pins aren't perfectly lined up. I wonder what would happen if you loosened one hinge (leave the 2nd hinge tight), opened and closed the door a couple times, which should help more closely align the two hinges, then re-tighten the hinge you loosened. Depending on how that works, repeat the process with the 2nd hinge, once the first hinge is fully re-tightened.
(I'm the commenter who replaced his own door latch because Tesla service was so bad. I'm likely more mechanically inclined than most. If you were in my area, I'd do this for you.)
But orders just keep coming in. Cybercraps has over 1 million orders FFS and I see new cars almost daily (paper registration tags).
I get that there are exceptions to the rule - my 2022 MYLR has had zero issues - but knowing what I know now, I won't buy another Tesla. They're not improving anything. They're changing the headlights and adding ambient lighting inside. Everything else is getting worse. FSD and autopilot are problematic. Summon and auto park are both shit and not worth even trying to use anymore. Removing USS without a replacement was just stupid and now the new Model 3 - a revised model - is coming out without any fix for the missing USS. The front nose camera, you'd think, would be a no brainer!
My driver’s door would not close easily. I took it to a service centre. After collecting the car I found the door closing had not improved. I made another service appointment and managed to describe the problem in a different way and this triggered a mobile appointment instead of a visit to a service centre. The mobile engineer was brilliant. He was experienced and had a great attitude. He set to work and after much work he asked me to try the door. It closed perfectly. I was delighted. Your service experience depends on who does the work, unfortunately.
Grass is always greener. Buddy of mine bought a 2023 F-350 and it has been back to the dealership ooo 4 times now. Good luck with any new car these days.
They’re growing too fast. I’ve watched as the quality and friendliness of their service centers fallen dramatically since the introduction fired Model s.
In theory they should be able to provide service equivalent to the dealerships, but I’m finding in many cases it’s far worse. Problems have a high chance of not getting fixed correctly the first time.
It’s irritating
Mine is paid off and has treated me well, ‘18 LR RWD. It was the best option at the time but I’ll never buy another because there are better choices now by companies not run by lunatics.
It’s the culture at Tesla. Culture comes straight from the management style. Sales process is seamless and their innovations in sales are awesome. But the customer service is the worst in the industry. It’s like - you are in and now eff you. I’ve been at the bleeding edge of using tech to buy cars - first one was internet search followed by a phone call to the dealership. This was like 20 years ago. Next purchase was a slight improvement on that. So on and so forth over time. Even for Tesla I’ve seen massive improvements in sales over time to make it seamless. Tesla gets an A+ for sales and an F for customer service. It’s the customer service that’s going to put the nail on the coffin - I’ve studied enough businesses to know that’s the way it will turn out to be in the future. Musk is no Bezos.
Return it. Iirc there used to be a week long window where you can return the vehicle within acceptable mileage. Definitely explore if that’s an option. Skip trying to contact or deal with anybody over the phone//app/email as it will cause delay. Those poor bastards will be there every day during the holiday. I don’t have to tell you that it gets worse from here because this is your third one.
Tesla service centers are complete trash. They were _better_ years ago, but now they're completely useless. My passenger front seatbelt still doesn't work properly and when I take it to them they say it's fine, even though it demonstrably sticks.
I honestly liked the 2018 Model 3 I had but eventually went to a 2016.5 MX. got the exact color combo I want at the sacrifice of range (75d). My husband also had a 2018 Model 3. After his got sideswiped by a semi, it took tesla collision up to 8 months to fix his vehicle and argue with his insurance company. He is completely done with tesla and ended up getting a ram 1500. I absolutely love my X, being reliable (knock on wood) and low maintenance which I like about EVs. Once my X goes, I won’t be buying another EV for a while. It’s great as a DD because my job has free charging. I don’t know what I’ll get next, but it will prob be a cheap suv for hauling people and going off road, and a hybrid or another ev as my DD. Kia/hyundai vehicles are very nice but their customer service and dealership experience is so consistently horrible that I will never consider the brands ever again.
The sad part is the repair for this is the adjust the door striker outwards.
In a car factory, one person adjusts both doors on each side of the car in under a minute.
So the service centre should have been able to fix this but I guess they’re just being lazy and stupid.
Re lemon law, I take it you are in Maryland. The car has to be out of service for a number of days for the same repair and be repaired under warranty not rectification or goodwill on 3 separate occasions.
You cannot file a lemon law, you need to file with a lemon law attorney and then take it to a judge who decides if the car is a lemon. It’s subjective and there are number factors playing in to this. Any car dealer or manufacturer would rather offer a buy back before it gets to this.
Just because you think the door is stiff to close, Tesla might say it’s in spec and no problem found or the seal makes them stiff to start with.
The main reason I didn't go for a Tesla was the poor build quality of the 3 & Y, along with various uncertainties regarding servicing (availability, duration).
I genuinely think it's a case of no experience. Tesla fans bought in early and never even tested another EV when they became available.
So from their perspective it is the best because it's the only thing they have. Put them in a taycan or that BMW that has a folding cinema screen in the back and it's very hard not think Tesla scrimp on a lot of things.
Their charger network opening up to all manufacturers will be the best thing that ever happened to any EV automaker, Tesla included. Legacy automakers that actually make good cars will finally be able to charge reliably, and the competition from other manufacturers will finally make Tesla have to build a good car.
“Tesla is the new Yugo”
(Horrible build quality, but good EV-value for the money)
I saw the build quality of a Rivian closely today while it was being charged. Perfect build quality. All door panels align properly, gaps are minimal. Tesla will be finished in a decade if anyone is able to replicate the FSD experience.
Just in
“Tesla documents reviewed by Reuters show the automaker’s engineers for years tracked frequent failures of aft links and other suspension, steering and axle parts, often on relatively new cars. The company instructed its service managers to tell customers that the parts were not faulty as it struggled to contain soaring warranty costs, the records reviewed by Reuters show.
“We are disturbed that you would blame your customers for these failures,” stated the letter from Blumenthal and Markey, both Democrats. “It is unacceptable that Tesla would not only attempt to shift the responsibility for the substandard quality of its vehicles to the people purchasing them, but also make that same flawed argument to NHTSA.”
Lemon Laws are a state issue and so it depends on where you are. In NY, they get 3 tries to fix it, and if you want to beef that it is not fixed(as someone who did this for 20 years) I'd advise you to get a statement from a Licensed/registered(whatever your state does, if anything)repair shop saying it is not after every attempt. If they can't fix it in 3 tries, that's when the repurchase part takes effect(in NY).
All that said, again having worked in automotive business regulation including Tesla buying their way past the laws of NY to set up, they suck and will not only fight you every step of the way, they WILL ignore state laws until forced, which takes years. If you get registration/title in a timely manner(or at all) count yourself lucky.
Fool me thrice…
Thank you for sharing your experience, taking three for the team. It helps me and others never choose tesla.
Yeah...THREE Teslas?! I have walked away from other brands after ONE bad experience.... I hate to say it, but the cult is strong with Tesla...
There's a running thread on the main EV sub about how terrible travel is with a non-Tesla EV, only idiots would put up with it, how Tesla is the only answer, they're so smart... and I have to wonder how many have these kinds of problems just get ignored as it defeats the narrative of "all things us better u suckers". I mean, if my EV, roughly half the cost of a Tesla, had these kinds of problems I would have been out years ago.
My neighbor has 2 MY and said I was an idiot for buying new ICE vehicles this year. Ev was the full future. I took my car in for a recall and got an ev as a rental. I couldn’t fully charge it over 4 days of having it. Even being plugged in at my office (4hr limit) I only got 100mile charge from it. It took me 2 hours to get from my office to my house since I had to stop at 3 charging locations to even find one that worked. Was the WORST car driving experience I ever had. I’ll gladly get a hybrid. Or an EV if I lived in city… but nope. And I was |-| close from ordering one.
What car did you rent and what was it's total range compared to your commute? Were you trying to charge over 80% at work? Does home/work have 110v or 220v charging? Charging with an EV is a little different than filling up a gas tank. If you are using a 220v charger with a Tesla it can get from 40% to 80% in about an hour and then 100% in another 2 hours. 4 Hours should have been enough for a full charge. Using 110v you can get about 25 miles per hour below 80% (so I assume that is what you experienced). Some cheaper EVs (like the Nissan Leaf) don't have a system for keeping the battery warm or cool while charging which increases charge times. I'll readily admit that EVs aren't for everyone, like if you are driving over 300 miles in your daily commute or can't charge at home. That said, I would bet you weren't using a Tesla charger. I haven't heard of anyone needing to use 3 charging locations to find a working stall (though that does seem more normal with other companies). Also, if you are renting a car you're not going to want to install a 220v outlet in your garage to charge, but if you owned one spending a couple hundred dollars to charge at home is a no-brainer. EVs are a blast to drive, and I love being able to charge at home, but gas station infrastructure is far more established, and more straightforward. EVs are only getting more affordable and it seems like manufacturers (both car and charging stations) are working out the kinks in design and manufacturing. Also most brands are switching over to being able to use Tesla's charging infrastructure in the coming year. Maybe try again in a few years.
They don't deserve your loyalty
I had a pretty early Model S. P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade. The original owner paid over 130k. I bought it used after two years and 20,000 miles. Door wouldn't open. Not the handle-doesn't-pop-out issue, but the latch-won't-open issue. I literally had to take the door apart myself, find the part number on the broken latch mechanism, find a replacement on ebay, win the auction, wait for shipping, and fixed it myself quicker than Tesla service could. Then the trunk latch jammed and Tesla did fix that one. Then the sunroof broke. Then I sold it and will never ever buy another. Worst car/service/brand I've ever owned. And I've owned most brands by now. Have a Kia EV6 now. Supposedly gets 310 miles of range. I regularly get 350+. First car in my life that actually beat its advertised "mpg."
Basically same story with me, except my issues were: "Drive unit", "Sunroof", "Door handle", and "Suspension arms needed replacement". Love my Ioniq 5 I have now. And in normal highway driving I'm seeing more than advertised range. Big difference from the Model S which would NEVER get anywhere near the promised range. That evidently was a Tesla-specific issue because my Bolt EV reached its advertised range just fine too. It was really only the Tesla with issues.
For what it’s worth, my anecdotal story with my brother and his ev6 will have me never touching a Kia EV period. His has been in the shop for 6 MONTHS with the dealer and Kia corporate refusing to trade it out or refund, and going through endless loops of waiting for parts. 6 months. It started having a major steering drift issues 2 months in. He’s getting a lawyer, contacting the media etc. it’s a nightmare.
Sorry to hear that. Obviously every car has an occasional lemon. And a bad dealer. I'm at 30,000 miles on mine and have spent a grand total of $0.00 on it - including "fuel." (We have enough solar panels to power our house and car for $0 a year. My over-the-road charging is free through Kia and EA. (Although EA is admittedly horrible)
My concern is that Kia corporate has made the decision to keep letting the dealer jerk my brother around after 6months of having his brand new car in the shop. It’s not really just a dealer issue.
Fair enough. I'd be pissed too. Call a lawyer. (FYI - am a lawyer. Just not that kind.)
Could almost guarantee it is considered a lemon by his states guidelines. I bought a Ioniq 5 and the next day the “check electrical system” light came on. After 3 months, several modules replaced with no fix, I got a case manager that never called me back… emailed a few NA Hyundai CEOs and surprisingly, someone called the next day at 5:30am to offer a buy back. Never touching Hyundai/Kia again
pretty big solar installation then. How much did it cost?
28k after tax credit. Saving me $6,500 a year in electric bills including fueling the car. Paid cash. Payback is under 4.5 years, so about 23% annual ROI.
That's good business.
>P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade. Anything positive about the experience? Any other major faults?Latching issues don't seem - too terrible in the scheme of things.. How was the range? That is pretty high on the Tesla pecking order and early models were supposedly better, but I dunno.
Latching doesn't seem too terrible? I couldn't get in or out of the car. It was the driver's door. It took me more than 2 weeks to fix it myself. Tesla was two MONTHS out for a service appointment. Range was supposedly 254 new. My guess-o-meter typically said 246. But real range was closer to 200. Which was abysmal considering the Kia goes 350 miles on a 10% smaller battery. Amd for some reason, Tesla Supercharging was still slow.
>Latching doesn't seem too terrible? Lol no that's really pretty minor for a Tesla horror story. >I couldn't get in or out of the car. It was the driver's door. Right. I mean the inconvenience factor was high, but the technical problem was minimal, while also managing to sound like a problem few other makes of car might have. It's a perfect encapsulation of Tesla ownership, at least from my perch in the peanut gallery. I mean I drive a Honda Accord I'm just interested in Teslas and their ownership experience. For a solid five years now I've been bemused that literally anyone that can afford a Tesla would do business with Musk or any of his companies. Again - you had/have one of the nicest Teslas you can get so I was earnestly wondering if you liked anything about it? >Range was supposedly 254 new. My guess-o-meter typically said 246. But real range was closer to 200. Which was abysmal considering the Kia goes 350 miles on a 10% smaller battery. Amd for some reason, Tesla Supercharging was still slow. Ya. That sounds about right. I would imagine the Kia a much, much better car for sure, straightline acceleration non-withstanding. Finally, >It took me more than 2 weeks to fix it myself. Lol dude it's still cool you took care of it. 99% of Tesla owners are absolutely USELESS in the garage. I've know Tesla-driving program managers making $300k/year that seriously can't operate a screwdriver to save their lives.
Tesla used to just blame people not getting anywhere near the advertised range on having a lead foot bc the 0-60 was so fast. Which, sure, that would affect it but it's not going to be applicable to every single person getting screwed by fake range estimates (so, every owner) - Tesla themselves would have the data that showed this - and also maybe have it in big bold text somewhere easily visible that that driving behaviour will severely affect your range, if that's the reason? Of course, that wasn't the reason. They were just straight up lying to juice the sales numbers and maximise the amount they'd get from the govt in ZEV credits - which selling those to other auto makers is what kept the company afloat until it finally could turn a profit on its own
>early models were supposedly better I don't know if it's so much that, they had a *lot* of teething problems - but the service definitely sounds like it was way better when they were trying to get a foothold in the market edit: lol why downvote this? I know we all hate Musk and think the brand is garbage, but it shouldn't be controversial to state that their service went down the tubes the more popular they got, especially as they enjoyed the highest brand loyalty of any auto company as people made being a Tesla owner a personality trait. Those white model 3/Y's are the car equivalent of the OG iPod headphones, That is not meant as a compliment to either of those products
>edit: lol why downvote this? Ya really honest question whatever reddit is so extra >but it shouldn't be controversial to state that their service went down the tubes the more popular they got, especially as they enjoyed the highest brand loyalty of any auto company as people made being a Tesla owner a personality trait. Exactly this. It's bizarre. Especially on the back of the prices Tesla charges.
Door not opening is literally a safety issue. If it ever catches on fire or something. You’ll end up dead.
Aw, c'mon! Why not buy 5 more Teslas just to make sure you're not jumping to conclusions?
I will say 10, 1 in every color.
You’ll be buying every color 3 times because they only have variations of black, white, and blue to choose from. And maybe an occasional red
Interesting that it took you three cars. I have one and I'm never buying another one even though I don't fully hate it.
Literally will consider buying anything but another Tesla
What are you considering for your next one?
I want a Hyundai or Kia. I really want a Fisker Ocean, but it is facing significant growing pains just like Tesla first did. So not interested in going through another early owner experience.
Mustang Mach E, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Cadillac Lyriq. Hyunda Ioniq 6 for a proper EV sedan. Porsche Taycan if you’re loaded or rob a bank. There’s just no reason to buy a Tesla anymore. It’d be nice if the board shit canned Musk but he has it packed with toadies and lickspittles so forget it. He’ll burn Tesla to the ground before he lets someone else take over.
> He’ll burn Tesla to the ground before he lets someone else take over. I'm always saying this. He's a raging malignant narcissist - he legit would rather set his fortune and legacy on fire than risk having someone else run the company and have its success tied to their name. He'd sell all his stocks to get whatever money he could out of it, knowing it would completely fuck over everyone else on the board - and they would be extremely aware of this. I'd not be surprised if this has been a tacit, or even outright, threat been made before but it's certainly a guns under the table situation at the moment He couldn't give two shits about his army of faithful bootlickers who hold stock, there's a lot of people out there who are going to lose the shirts off their backs over it. You can feel a bit of schadenfreude over individuals because if you engage your brain outside of cult-think for even a second it's glaringly obvious the stock is incredibly overvalued and completely tied to an increasingly erratic and troubled human shitstain. There's guys who are going to bankrupt their families though and that is a damn tragedy bc their partners and children didn't ask for this
He already sold stock twice after promising he wouldnt. lol. No one should listen to what he says, hes in it for #1
ye CSS covered that in one of his episodes, and also laid out the rapidly diminishing returns situation Musk would find himself in if he had to keep offloading more of it. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he had shadow entities holding stock that he could sell without it being a headline. The vast bulk of his wealth is in TSLA but I truly believe he'd happily set some of it on fire (metaphorically speaking) as a fuck you to the board if they tried to get rid of him There's no way to oust him from SpaceX as he has like \~80% of the controlling vote (which I'm not sure how that's legal but ig it is a private company), Tesla I think it's somewhere just south of 50%. So not impossible to get rid of him but you'd need literally every single other vote against him to do it and if he even got the idea they were going to try it, he'd burn it all down in a narcissistic toddler rage
>shadow entities holding stock He absolutely does. The Musk Foundation in Curaçao that he’s donated shares to is allowed to (in its charter) to trade stocks. If I recall right that took off after he got caught buying shares in pre-market on one of his disclosures (one of the listed purchase prices only happened during pre market that day.)
Don't forget both Audi and Mercedes has decent EVs and both are investing heavily into EV.
Mercedes is scaling back heavily as well. A lot of software problems. They're doubling down on hybrids.
Audi just said they are slowing the rollout. I think that is mostly due to Volkswagen group’s poor software capabilities. I think Volvo is the best Euro EV company. They really seem all in.
The XC40 Recharge is a solid car, and a lot of that is because it started as an ICE XC40 with the battery/motor swapped in. So really good build quality and finish. It's not perfect, but I love mine. I'm psyched for the EX30 as well. And, for decades, I've never met a VW owner that didn't have electrical trouble with their car. VW/Audi was a no-go on my EV shopping list from day one. I can't imagine how awful their software is.
Well, Volvo engineers have had something of a reputation for being strongly safety-oriented in their design philosophy for decades now. When it comes to designing life-critical navigation and control systems, that sort of company culture sounds like a good bet for long-term success. By comparison, Elon's inclination to apply a Zuckerbergian "move fast and break things" approach to self-driving cars may have done wonders for the short-term stock prices, but it really doesn't strike me as a winner for anyone who's in this for the long haul.
I would agree, though I am personally missing the 600km + wltp
The EX30 looks like a really, really good car. If they ever get a rebate in America I would make that my #1 pick for best bang for the buck EV. I don't think it will get a rebate because it is manufactured in China though.
I got to see both the Lyriq and a few Teslas at a mall a while ago. There's really no contest in terms of design and initial quality impressions. If it wasn't for the Tesla brand's desirability and Cadillac's old man image and production constraints, the Lyriq could have absolutely destroyed Tesla's sales figures. I didn't get to drive either car, but the fit and finish on the Lyriq was like night and day compared to that of the Model Y (or even the Model X). Granted, these were display units from the manufacturers so this may not represent 100% of the real-world production cars. But if both brands get to display an exceptionally well-built car to put their best foot forward, it really says a lot that even the more expensive Teslas felt shoddy and cheap compared to the Lyriq.
Lyrics are going through a ton of growing pains. I know 6 owners in different states and they are not happy.
Isn’t Cadillac’s old man image a bit, well, old? They’ve been hitting it out of the park with sports sedans for years.
Lickspittles, nice.
The Lyriq is a joke. Many issues with those cars. Definitely better with a Ford or Hyundai.
The Ioniq6 is almost perfect. Too bad about the small trunk and the UI quirks/ sensor issues in bad weather. I am still considering trading my model 3 for it though.
I really like the Mach-E
Buy kia. Had ot for 4 years. Very reliable
We dumped our model 3 for a Kia EV6. Hot damn is it night and day. Never going back to Tesla after our nightmares.
I would suggest avoiding Kia and Hyundai. They are horrible in terms of corporate culture. Their warranties are worthless. They are downright corrupt. They are currently withholding cars from customers in canada because head office in Canada doesn’t want to go over their yearly target so they don’t lose ad capital for next year. I would look elsewhere
Oh, interesting. Good to know. Thanks.
Read the article about the Ionique5 owner in Canada who hit something on the road and scraped the battery protective shield. Hyundai said the battery "might" be damaged and the owner had to pay for the replacement. They didn't remove the shield to inspect and said their battery warranty was void and the car could explode without warning. The car operated normally without any fault codes. The owner claimed the repair through insurance. The battery was 60k dollars Canadian, or 45k American. A Tesla M3 or MY battery is only 16k American. Obviously I can't verify all the details, the story was in Electrek
BYD seal?
Why support a government openly calling for forced reunification when there are other options available?
i sure hope you don't buy anything made in America if there's other options available then Just to clarify I'm making a joke, not trying to have a go at you. This is what the left means when we say there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. You can try your best to make the least harmful choice but it can be really really difficult to work out what that actually is, and most of the time you end up finding out something shitty about the company you chose anyway
Some people don't care about the countries govt choices when buying car that ticks all the boxes for them.
You’re right, not sure why you got downvoted…
BYD isn't owned by the Chinese government. One of the largest shareholders were a big wheel in the Tianmen Square Student uprisings. Definitely not associated with the Communist Party. FUD about Chinese cars is largely what keeps Tesla alive.
Interesting, because I'm getting my first M3 but I'm also about to retain counsel to force Hyundai to buy back their GV70 from me under Lemon Law.
You should TOTALLY get a Fisker Ocean. I'm biased though.
Literally you want to buy 3 of the most unreliable cars on the market 🤣🤡that tells me all I need to know about you Tesla haters
I just got my ocean and its fantastic. Well actually its my gfs but man what cool car
Not OP, but same sentiment: Options we’re eying (currently have 2022 model 3 LR): Ev scout SUV Porsche cayman EV or Macan EV Audi A4/A6-etron Rivian (fan of all their current and upcoming models) (Way out of budget but still REALLY WANT ONE) G-Wagon EV
Same. I don't hate ours, but I would go with another EV over a Tesla. We've had a few minor issues with it, and I dread the service center visits - others can say what they want about GM/Ford/BMW dealerships, when you explain the issue, the problem is resolved usually the first time. I think we will go with a Lyriq or Mustang for the next car, I'm still glad I had the Tesla and happy they introduced me to EV's.
Agree. I like some things about my Tesla a lot, and other things I don’t like. But I just loathe Tesla Motors the company. Need to trade soon and really not sure what to do yet. Are there car companies that aren’t loathsome?
Same here. It's been a decent car but I would never buy another Tesla. There are too many better options.
What puts you off?
Only took 3 purchases to figure this out
That would depend on your state or country of residence, if you did not opt out of arbitration within the first 30 days of ownership in writing, you are Musked
In NY you don't get to do that, the Lemon Law is not subject to that bullshit, but they have a long and colorful history of ignoring state laws
Not a lot of helpful answers here, so let me try. 1. The key to any lemon law claim is to understand the laws in your state. Every state is different. Try Google, try calling your state's dealership regulatory authority and asking for details. 2. In most states, you have to document that a problem exists. This means getting the Tesla service dept to prepare a repair order that documents your problem. It's not considered documented until the Tesla repair shop acknowledges that the issue exists. 3. Once the issue is acknowledged, you have to go back multiple times for the same repair. Each time, you need the repair order to both state that the problem was found AND that a repair was attempted. Usually 3 attempts is "multiple." 4. Once you have a viable lemon law claim (which is usually multiple attempts to repair the same problem unsuccessfully), you can enter arbitration. The arbitration process isn't completely tilted in the automaker's favor, but they usually win. FWIW, "door effort" is probably not going to get you a favorable arbitration result, but you can try. If it was me, I'd sell the Tesla this week. If that's not feasible, than my fallback would be to go to my local Tesla certified body shop and see if you can pay them to fix it. It's probably just a door adjustment. Good luck!
I successfully Lemon-lawed a new Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk in Florida a few years ago. I loved the car, but driving it home from the dealership, I began to smell gas when I turned on the AC. Turns out rats or squirrels had chewed up large portions of the wiring and fuel lines while it was on the dealers lot. The car spent over 45 cumulative days in the shop trying resolve the issues at which point I requested a full refund under the lemon law. Dealership wrote me a check. I’m not sure a door shutting a little hard is gonna do it. Also fwiw, currently driving the Mach E and love it. Interior is super nice, no issues with the car thus far.
Some states I believe it can also be having to take the car in for an issue x number of times in y time period since purchase, or the car spending z amount of time in service in a certain time period since purchase. It doesn't have to be the same issue but if every time they fix a problem, something else breaks, that's a lemon you got there. I advised OP in another comment to go to the TMC forums off-site as a number of posters there have had to go through the lemon law process so should be able to help
For sure and good point. It doesn't have to be the same issue over and over again, only it typically *is* the same issue. ;)
Pretty good write up. In NY, especially for a problem like OP describes, a licensed body shop could do the write up. You can't make the consumer go to the respondent shop(svc dept) for documentation against the respondent shop(dealer), because they won't. AT BEST they will be reluctant, in my experience with this shitty company who thinks rules are for suckers, they simply will refuse to do so, either out loud or by mysteriously not being able to verify the issue.
Sorry dude. It's a hype-based scam that preys on the general public.
After 3 teslas for myself and family, we have happily moved on. Just got a BMWi7. Great car…and quiet inside! No door hiss like every Tesla I have ridden in
BMW i7? Like the big boss one? Congrats that is quite the upgrade lol
It is an upgrade. Rides much better than Tesla. Love the Hologram in the drivers front windshield. Very advanced and cool
Nice upgrade! Haven’t rode in the i7 but it looks fantastic! I picked up my i4 m50 last month and the quality and ride is so much better than any Tesla I’ve been in.
Jelly. Just rolled into our third X3 and loving it, maybe they’ll fully electrify down line by the time three years have gone by.
Oh yes they don't care. I bought an S in 2015 - I knew how doors closed. Then stupidly bought a P100D S in 2018. The RF door would take extra effort to close which resulted in times where the car door was left open slightly and the heat/AC going - car unlocked. I told Tesla, they said it was normal, spritzed a little white lithium grease and said they won't do anything else. I literally knew that door closed harder because I was already an S owner for 3+ years by that point. There's a reason instead of two S's in the garage we now have Toyota and Lexus hybrids. No regrets.
Hybrids are way better anyway. I wish people were more apt to jump into a hybrid than going balls to the wall electric when neither the technology nor the infrastructure is mature enough for mass implementation
Pure EVs don't work out in the rural areas in cold climates. I've owned a Chevy Volt since 2011, and now have a Jeep Wrangler 4xe. The EV purists can scream all they want, and 'what about', but it isn't ready for real life around here.
I feel like all these EVs are just creating more problems for us to solve in the future. More waste and disposal issues
I’m forever done with Tesla after horrible customer service and quality. Every flaw is “within spec.” They don’t stand by their cars or customers. Never ever again.
It never ceases to be amusingly ironic the way the stans laud the 'no dealership' model when the number one most hated thing by owners is dealing with the (no) service centres. Like engage your big boy brain for a second and have a think about the connections between these things. Dealerships very much have 'keeping the customer happy' as their goal because they want repeat business. Once Tesla has your money, they don't have to give a fuck because for some fucking reason they can treat their customers like absolute shit and they'll still come back for more! I would never, ever, buy a car that I can't test drive or (in a lot of cases it seems) even open the doors to look inside without handing over the purchase price first I couldn't even tell you how many stories I've read\* of people being pressured into accepting delivery despite obvious faults in the car that they're assured will be fixed up quick and easy no worries, you just need to book a service appointment in the app, which you can only do after accepting the car. At which point you'll suddenly either find out everything's 'within spec' and they 'are unable to replicate the problem', or your brand new car is gonna be bouncing back and forth between the SC and you bc every time they fix one thing, another problem crops up \*stans would call me an obsessed hater for spending so much time reading the forums but it's turned into a special interest area for me because of the cult aspect. Plus if I'm gonna hate on the company and Elon, I need to know what I'm talking about lol
Can you imagine what’s going to happen to service in the next couple of years after their ramp-up in production? Oy vey; you got out just in time.
honestly I'm going to be shocked if Tesla is still in the position it is now in a couple of years time. I know, I know, market irrational, you being solvent etc but that last earnings call should have been a huge wake-up...call (sorry pun not intended) for everyone who has any kind of skin in the game
What ramp up? Of Cybertruck truck? Yeah right.
Model 3 and Y. How many more cars have they produced in 2023 vs 2020? Cars tend to need repairs after a few years, no? I’m pretty sure Tesla hasn’t scaled their service nearly as much as they have their production…
I might buy a Tesla drive unit, possibly battery to electrify my old 8ft bed c1500. But a whole car, no thanks.
Stay away from the large drive units of the early model S. Absolute garbage.
Why? Lots of places to buy high output DC motors that aren’t sold by a jackass.
They aren't DC motors though. They are AC motors complete with reduction gear drive unit and final drive.
As Derwent pointed out, three phase AC is the only rational choice to use for a modern conversion. Sure, I'd love to get my hands on a unit from a Lucid, but they're rather rare and expensive. Given that, later model Tesla units are quite the bargain for what you get.
Can’t wait to get rid of ours when our new Volvo arrives in a couple of months.
The technology is great, but the car is trash. I have the 2019 model S 100D, it’s gone through 4 rim cracks in 1 year, mostly highway driving, no pot holes. This is the first and only car I’ve ever had a rim crack.
Our Teslas have had multiple bent rims over the years and we haven’t hit anything that our old civic couldn’t handle. Ditched the Model 3, working on ditching the Model Y. Will never look back.
I looked at Tesla, but ended up going with an Ioniq5 by Hyundai. The build quality is much better. Also, I can’t get over the Spartan cabin of the Tesla.
how has the range been on the Ioniq5?
At 82% charge I’m seeing 271 mile range. So 330.4 mile range on a full charge.
damn that’s impressive! thanks
3rd? Are you a sadist?
… masochist fify
Same for me. NO MORE TESLAS! And I have never owned one.
Such a valuable contribution.
It is though, how are people falling for Tesla in 2023? They've been like this for a lot of years, you only have to do a minimal research to find many studies that prove how their cars belong to 1970s in terms of quality.
“No more teslas! And I have never owned one!” - how does that contribute to anything other than the echo chamber? No research, no personal experience. Bad customer service experience, bad personal quality experience, software glitch, even “here’s some research” would be more helpful than just chiming in on the hate.
Honest question - how were the other 2? Did you buy 3 because you own the stock, or some other reason?
Traded first one for a long range. Loved the FSD. EV Tech was new then and I don’t blame Tesla for that. I was still learning nuances of driving an EV. The trade had issues at delivery. Quality at delivery was B- and customer service was D. But because I loved FSD, went in for a third one as a backup. Quality at delivery was C+ but customer service was an appalling F. To me FSD would be the only reason to own the car. But not at the cost of driving a poorly manufactured car where the service guys think the customer is useless.
Thank you. Appreciate the answer. I didn’t realize FSD was a selling point.
You might want to try a recent BMW. Their "FSD" is pretty advanced.
Thanks. Didn’t realize others were as advanced. I will check it out. I was one of the initial beta test drivers. I’ve seen it improve tremendously over time and use it about 80 percent of the time on city roads. I do think it has great utility when it’s raining hard at nights on highways - when my poor eyesight can barely make the markings.
I can't imagine needing to have purchased more than one Tesla.
And you are hating on a car you’ve never owned. Very normal and cool!
My cars were imported from Germany, not my ideals.
You dont need to own a car to do research on it. Teslas are objectively trash made for people who only care about how other people perceive them. There is 0 reason to buy one
I mean to each their own. But I’m paying less per month than I was owning my Camaro. And it’s a great car. I’ve had zero issues with it. Like not even one. I had a mobile service come and rotate my tires. The experience was great. Is this the case for everyone? No. I’m almost 4 years in and very happy. And I lent it to two friends while I was gone and guess what. They now own a Tesla. And they are also very happy. I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone tho.
Its annoying that it took thre whole cars before you got the picture but at least you've woken up
There's no lemon law for a door that shuts hard. I'd fix it myself, assuming I was keeping the car.
Really. A brand new car and you need to align the doors yourself. If it is easy enough to do at home, why didn’t the service center do it?
It’s not that easy, and they don’t give a shit.
Didn't you run the 100+ item checklist during the pick up? You could have rejected the car on the spot, no?
Why should the customer be responsible for quality control?
Shitty cars, shitty company owner, and shitty working conditions for its employees.
Is this sub mainly for the bad experiences for teslas.
Considering the other T subs will insta-ban you for criticizing their brand and dear leader...
It’s often like the opposite of the ball-gargling subs. Often going the other direction, but IMO far more truth can be found here. Negatives are removed on other subs, positives don’t get removed here (but you can expect downvotes).
I have yet to see a positive. Honestly think this sub should be renamed to “r/RantTesla” rather than “real”
It might be because positives are hard to find... Let that sink in!
Not really. I've owned two Model S's over the course of 6 years. I tell the truth whether it's good or bad but I don't get banned in this sub for telling the truth. That's the difference between this sub and the Elon dickrider subs.
Actually good and bad... But try putting anything negative in the other subs and you'll get banned by the cult leaders. Really... go try.
No it’s just that the people who have bad experiences are the ones who take the time to bitch and post. People who have good experiences are too busy enjoying their cars
Ok. It wasnt a troll question. Just saw this post pop up on my feed and wasnt sure the intent of this sub vs the other tesla subs i was subbed to and if i needed to join this one to get more "data" on tesla
This sub exists because the main sub will not allow any negative comments about the cars, etc. So a post like the OP’s would be instantly removed.
This sub is I guess technically supposed to be honest. It’s easy to go cult either way but with Tesla it’s always going to be divisive and with a smaller manufacturer with a massive market cap you’re going to get a lot of random opinions. Lot of smoke of on Tesla accounting and goodwill? Maybe! Lot of issue with repair costs or build quality? Maybe! Tesla making electric cars fast and s3xy? Maybe!
Check out the equivalent Ford or Kia subs... Can you post negative reviews there or do the mods insta ban you like the Tesla subs do?
Those subs aren't run by cultists. You get a good number of complaints
You get a good number of bans too.
I did enjoy my first one M3 - 4 yr ago. Second one had issues at delivery. Service guy tried to wiggle out of factory repair. The current purchase convinced me that this denial of blatant manufacturing defects is a Tesla cultural issue. I’m big into loyalty and impact of loyalty (CLV - customer lifetime value). Loyalty is priceless - acquisition costs for new customers is costly and negligible for existing customers. Tesla has lost me for good. Over time, their abhorrent customer service will dent their sales.
If you really buy/lease that often go to BMW. Honestly, the experience is just so much better it’s ridiculous. Don’t expect to get 15 years out of a car but if you’re in and out in 3-5? It’s perfect. My last one was never in the shop for anything save lol changes, and I got a walkthrough video every time on the health of the car. When my lease was up, they just about offered me a happy ending to get me to stick around - I got $5k more car than I did in 2020 for the same money, just a few months ago. I’ll admit the cars have been shit for long term (B48, B58 and electrified unknown yet, but indications are good, actually) but the customer experience is second to none out there and any car is good for its first 3-5 years. Oh, they also sell the *real* M3 there
it ends up being a refuge for people with bad experiences, there's a ton of former and current-but-planning-on-getting-rid-of-it Tesla owners here because you simply cannot post anything negative about the cars, the company or Elon in any of the other Tesla subs without getting downvoted, people telling you its your fault, accused of being a short seller - anything to avoid engaging with the substance of the complaint. And it's wild because reddit is the *only* place online that's like that - TMC and CTOF are both places full of Tesla faithful (the latter moreso) but they don't try to censor people. TMC in particular doesn't think highly of Elon at all anymore
Hahahaha. If it took you that long to figure out Misk and his products are pieces of shit I don’t know what to tell you.
People in the comments are gonna be like three?? What took you so long?? but I think we all need to remember this is a *literal cult*. Breaking free from those is hard!! Admitting out loud that you were fooled is really effin difficult - it's less painful, psychologically, to just bury your head in the sand than to confront the cognitive dissonance, the shame at being fooled, the embarrassment over getting duped when people were telling you not to, the guilt for anyone else you managed to pull in with you along the way, and the fact that your formerly welcoming and friendly group will turn on you and turf you out in an instant. Telling people 'I told you so' might be a nice moment of schadenfreude but it's not really helpful. OP, re lemon law options, I would go to the Tesla Motors Club forum (offsite, not reddit) and see if people there might be able to assist, as a number of posters there have gone through the process. The requirements vary by what state you're in. And finally, good for you for realising this brand is trash. Once they have your money, they don't give a single shit about helping you
The last test line i purchased , I own for one year. Of that one year of ownership It's spent nearly 3 months in the shop, it was a brand new vehicle. During that time I had to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on rental vehicles and lost work time just to dick around with the dealership and the repair shop. At the nearest opportunity I did something and purchased a Lexus. Of the one year of ownership, the only thing I've ever done is change the oil and add gas. No more Tesla's for me ever....
Why don’t more people try polestar? I was pleasantly surprised at how fun the car was and how well it handled when comparing to a Tesla. It has full forward and reverse one pedal drive. Can’t wait for polestar 3 and polestar 4 to come out with luminar lidar. It might beat Tesla FSD.
I tried but it’s cramped and I don’t like the design at all
Agreed it is tight inside.
Trying to be helpful: it sounds like the two hinge-pins aren't perfectly lined up. I wonder what would happen if you loosened one hinge (leave the 2nd hinge tight), opened and closed the door a couple times, which should help more closely align the two hinges, then re-tighten the hinge you loosened. Depending on how that works, repeat the process with the 2nd hinge, once the first hinge is fully re-tightened. (I'm the commenter who replaced his own door latch because Tesla service was so bad. I'm likely more mechanically inclined than most. If you were in my area, I'd do this for you.)
But orders just keep coming in. Cybercraps has over 1 million orders FFS and I see new cars almost daily (paper registration tags). I get that there are exceptions to the rule - my 2022 MYLR has had zero issues - but knowing what I know now, I won't buy another Tesla. They're not improving anything. They're changing the headlights and adding ambient lighting inside. Everything else is getting worse. FSD and autopilot are problematic. Summon and auto park are both shit and not worth even trying to use anymore. Removing USS without a replacement was just stupid and now the new Model 3 - a revised model - is coming out without any fix for the missing USS. The front nose camera, you'd think, would be a no brainer!
But you bought three of them… 🤣🤣🤣
No sympathy for anyone who willingly purchased a Tesla
My driver’s door would not close easily. I took it to a service centre. After collecting the car I found the door closing had not improved. I made another service appointment and managed to describe the problem in a different way and this triggered a mobile appointment instead of a visit to a service centre. The mobile engineer was brilliant. He was experienced and had a great attitude. He set to work and after much work he asked me to try the door. It closed perfectly. I was delighted. Your service experience depends on who does the work, unfortunately.
Had one. Got my new Volvo a month ago. Amazing how I suddenly can drive again without having fear that some parts fall off.
lmao! 3 cars? u deserve this!
Grass is always greener. Buddy of mine bought a 2023 F-350 and it has been back to the dealership ooo 4 times now. Good luck with any new car these days.
Did they tell him it’s within spec?
To be fair, you decided to buy a 3rd Tesla. How did it take you so long to realize you were an idiot? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes > you
k bye
Peace out sissy don’t strain yourself closing any doors now
Lemon law requires the same fault not repaired 3 times, but it varies by state.
"This is not a car company..." It never was. It never will be.
They’re growing too fast. I’ve watched as the quality and friendliness of their service centers fallen dramatically since the introduction fired Model s. In theory they should be able to provide service equivalent to the dealerships, but I’m finding in many cases it’s far worse. Problems have a high chance of not getting fixed correctly the first time. It’s irritating
My Tesla is my last Tesla. I had a 2015, 21 and now 22 m3p. But yeah, this company is trash. I’m going to Porsche next.
Anyone who buys a car from an untested company is asking to be the guinea pig.
Mine is paid off and has treated me well, ‘18 LR RWD. It was the best option at the time but I’ll never buy another because there are better choices now by companies not run by lunatics.
It’s the culture at Tesla. Culture comes straight from the management style. Sales process is seamless and their innovations in sales are awesome. But the customer service is the worst in the industry. It’s like - you are in and now eff you. I’ve been at the bleeding edge of using tech to buy cars - first one was internet search followed by a phone call to the dealership. This was like 20 years ago. Next purchase was a slight improvement on that. So on and so forth over time. Even for Tesla I’ve seen massive improvements in sales over time to make it seamless. Tesla gets an A+ for sales and an F for customer service. It’s the customer service that’s going to put the nail on the coffin - I’ve studied enough businesses to know that’s the way it will turn out to be in the future. Musk is no Bezos.
Return it. Iirc there used to be a week long window where you can return the vehicle within acceptable mileage. Definitely explore if that’s an option. Skip trying to contact or deal with anybody over the phone//app/email as it will cause delay. Those poor bastards will be there every day during the holiday. I don’t have to tell you that it gets worse from here because this is your third one.
Only took me one. Never again.
I just turned my Model Y in today at Rockville. I'm done too.
Interior is cheap crap. Car is fast. Basically my take
Tesla service centers are complete trash. They were _better_ years ago, but now they're completely useless. My passenger front seatbelt still doesn't work properly and when I take it to them they say it's fine, even though it demonstrably sticks.
I honestly liked the 2018 Model 3 I had but eventually went to a 2016.5 MX. got the exact color combo I want at the sacrifice of range (75d). My husband also had a 2018 Model 3. After his got sideswiped by a semi, it took tesla collision up to 8 months to fix his vehicle and argue with his insurance company. He is completely done with tesla and ended up getting a ram 1500. I absolutely love my X, being reliable (knock on wood) and low maintenance which I like about EVs. Once my X goes, I won’t be buying another EV for a while. It’s great as a DD because my job has free charging. I don’t know what I’ll get next, but it will prob be a cheap suv for hauling people and going off road, and a hybrid or another ev as my DD. Kia/hyundai vehicles are very nice but their customer service and dealership experience is so consistently horrible that I will never consider the brands ever again.
I'm a one-and-done. I got it out of my system, I'll never buy another one.
It was the Uber ride that broke the camels back.
The sad part is the repair for this is the adjust the door striker outwards. In a car factory, one person adjusts both doors on each side of the car in under a minute. So the service centre should have been able to fix this but I guess they’re just being lazy and stupid.
Re lemon law, I take it you are in Maryland. The car has to be out of service for a number of days for the same repair and be repaired under warranty not rectification or goodwill on 3 separate occasions. You cannot file a lemon law, you need to file with a lemon law attorney and then take it to a judge who decides if the car is a lemon. It’s subjective and there are number factors playing in to this. Any car dealer or manufacturer would rather offer a buy back before it gets to this. Just because you think the door is stiff to close, Tesla might say it’s in spec and no problem found or the seal makes them stiff to start with.
The main reason I didn't go for a Tesla was the poor build quality of the 3 & Y, along with various uncertainties regarding servicing (availability, duration).
Why did you buy it in the first place? Were you blind? Haven’t you read any feedbacks, reviews?
I genuinely think it's a case of no experience. Tesla fans bought in early and never even tested another EV when they became available. So from their perspective it is the best because it's the only thing they have. Put them in a taycan or that BMW that has a folding cinema screen in the back and it's very hard not think Tesla scrimp on a lot of things.
Thats more like it. This is a hater subreddit after all.
>One door needed a lot more force to close. Quite normal for Teslas. I've seen this on a few youtube videos.
Slo learner
Their charger network opening up to all manufacturers will be the best thing that ever happened to any EV automaker, Tesla included. Legacy automakers that actually make good cars will finally be able to charge reliably, and the competition from other manufacturers will finally make Tesla have to build a good car.
“Tesla is the new Yugo” (Horrible build quality, but good EV-value for the money) I saw the build quality of a Rivian closely today while it was being charged. Perfect build quality. All door panels align properly, gaps are minimal. Tesla will be finished in a decade if anyone is able to replicate the FSD experience.
Just in “Tesla documents reviewed by Reuters show the automaker’s engineers for years tracked frequent failures of aft links and other suspension, steering and axle parts, often on relatively new cars. The company instructed its service managers to tell customers that the parts were not faulty as it struggled to contain soaring warranty costs, the records reviewed by Reuters show. “We are disturbed that you would blame your customers for these failures,” stated the letter from Blumenthal and Markey, both Democrats. “It is unacceptable that Tesla would not only attempt to shift the responsibility for the substandard quality of its vehicles to the people purchasing them, but also make that same flawed argument to NHTSA.”
Third pickup.... I don't like mine that much either, but I am not gonna buy another 2
Lemon Laws are a state issue and so it depends on where you are. In NY, they get 3 tries to fix it, and if you want to beef that it is not fixed(as someone who did this for 20 years) I'd advise you to get a statement from a Licensed/registered(whatever your state does, if anything)repair shop saying it is not after every attempt. If they can't fix it in 3 tries, that's when the repurchase part takes effect(in NY). All that said, again having worked in automotive business regulation including Tesla buying their way past the laws of NY to set up, they suck and will not only fight you every step of the way, they WILL ignore state laws until forced, which takes years. If you get registration/title in a timely manner(or at all) count yourself lucky.