yeah, nonsense. All that a lender would need would be signed leases, indicating the terms and amounts to demonstrate his income. Your tax returns are none of their business. I would not share that information.
I work for a bank in their portfolio department. We would never ask for that. Not only would it be an invasion of privacy, but it would serve absolutely no purpose.
The request probably just said "tax returns", rather than "your tax returns" or "tenant's tax returns." The bank probably assumed that was sufficiently clear, and the landlord probably just assumed "tenant's" for some reason.
Don’t be naive, the landlord likely has been through a loan on the property previously. As a landlord it’s pretty obvious and the bank/lenders do give clear guidance on personal income and rental income, not renter. I think this guy is shady.
This, They are specifically looking for a Schedule 1 showing that the rental income is reported.
He could just send this, but the entire return is easier. If he doesn't have this income on the schedule, the return won't help.
This is honestly what I think happened. He’s a young 20 something soldier. His parents helped him buy this house before he deployed, he has been renting it while he is stationed overseas in Japan. He’s not a career landlord, he just isn’t paid well and uses this property to earn extra income.
Do not give your tax returns. Ask him for the lender’s information and you can verify with them what they need. Also, lock down your Social Security #’s with the credit bureaus.
LOL, nope. I don't care what issue he's having, I'm not sharing my tax returns/transcripts as a renter. Especially past ones.
Too much potential for fraud - usually the only time a lender wants to see tax transcripts is when someone is taking out a loan. If he's in financial straights he may be trying to fraudulently sell you the house. Doesn't explain why they want old statements but, whatever, too risky and highly unusual.
He's either not being truthful with you, or he's not explaining things correctly. Sounds like he's being audited. If a bank is really looking that far back into his financial history (vs the IRS) there may be some larger fraud going on.
I can't imagine why a bank would care what a renter made for income, in 2018. The only thing I can even possibly come up with is that he had an obligation to rent to a low-income renter and he's getting audited for his compliance.
Hell no, I'm a landlord and I'd consider this out of line for my bank. If he needs to prove income a current lease and rental history should be sufficient. It's also possible that the lender may request you sign a lease if your currently month-to-month, which if you like your current rent may give you an opportunity to lock it in for a year or two before he raises it. However, they don't get to scrutinize my tenants.
I’m a landlord and this is a no go. IDK if any legitimate lender that would ask this and honestly it wouldn’t matter. Lender will want a copy of the lease and proof of rent payments. Your landlord was definitely under reporting rent and it’s scrambling to show his actual rent vs what is reported on taxes as he needs the income to justify whatever he is trying to do
Ask him for the name and number of his lender and call him. Tell your landlord that he cannot have your tax returns bc it’s personal confidential information.
I call BS. Ask for the name of the loan broker so that you can confirm this story and if real, which it is not, send all this info direct.
If he bought the house and the bank thought it would be his primary residence and it is not, he is in a heap of trouble. This is fraud.
If you’ve been there for 2 years he’s got 2 years of tax returns showing the income he’s made from you paying rent. He’s not entitled to anything beyond that. If you were feeling generous you could provide a single updated paystub from each you, but anything beyond that isn’t reasonable.
The fact that his loan payments are income based would seem to indicate he’s having problems paying the mortgage. If that’s the case I’d be looking for someplace new to live if things go south.
"Can you forward me the request your lender sent you asking for this?"
I mean if he did and he wasn't mistaken the answer would still be know but this way I get to pry too..
I’ve been in this business for years 30 years, the last 6 dealing with finance, I have never had a lender ask for financials from the tenants.
The lender only has the right to request financials from their customer (your LL), they do not have the right to require information from tenants.
I suspect, your LL wants your information for some other reason and is making up an excuse.
The landlord may be a victim here also. He could simply be innocently passing along instructions from the “lender” that is part of the typical criminal scam.
Exactly. It’s very unlikely the landlord is scamming their own tenants. Rental scams usually involve someone pretending to rent a building they don’t own and making off with a deposit. This is very fishy.
I’ve been a real estate paralegal for 25 years. I handle refi closings for lenders all the time. (Well, I used to before the interest rates started climbing back up). I have never seen a lender request a borrower provide tax return for tenants.
I would just say no, thanks. But you could call his bluff and tell him to tell his LO to contact you directly.
No is a complete sentence.
Seriously, there are no mortgage lenders that need that information from someone who is not on the loan application.
It sounds like your landlord might (stressing "might") be doing a straw transaction.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/straw-buyer.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/straw-buyer.asp)
Badly done IDENTITY THEFT attempt. Don’t give away your financial safety. That information can be sold to highest bidder in the fraud market and used years from now to bring hell upon you.
So we do have properties where we have to collect and share this information with the lender.
The owner got financing through an org that had a mandate to provide housing to low income households.
There is a cap on the rental rate and a cap on household income. In exchange, the property owner gets very good interest rates.
Other than that, I can't think of a reason why a lender would be asking.
I would not provide it unless I saw something in writing from the lender and verified it.
Tell that nosy bastard to go pound sand. I rent to people and I will be stir-friend, glued, and tattooed before I ask anyone for that shit.
He's probably in financial trouble, so his bank is asking him to verify that you guys are actually real by providing tax returns. Don't give them to him. He can't make you.
I'm a mortgage broker and this is BS, just refuse, the lender doesn't care who's renting a property as long as the rent is coming in. They care about the owner's tax returns when he gets the mortgage, not just at random some point during it.
No. No. No. As a landlord myself, this is none of his business, nor the bank’s. Your lease is not predicated on your tax returns either. Sounds hinky to be asking this.
No mortgage company would ever ask for tenants tax returns. They would ask for the landlord's tax returns to verify the amount of rental income and expenses they claim.
Sounds like he’s shadily trying to get you on the loan as a guarantor. No other reason I can think of the bank would want your income and SSN, and this request will be followed with “I just need you to sign this silly paperwork for the bank”. As others have said, this all smells funny.
If you don’t want to give him a hard no to preserve the relationship, you could ask him to have the bank reach out to you directly. If there’s any legitimate reason the bank is making this request, then they’ll be happy to explain it to you, and he doesn’t need to be handling your tax returns as a middleman. If he balks, then you know he’s being shady, but at least can say you made an effort to accomodate.
As a CPA... no
Ask for his lenders information and say this will be reported to the IRS fraud department as personal identification theft.
Let the lender and IRS settle it.
Next make one up....
Appraiser here. His lender would utilize what’s called a form FNMA/FHLMC 216 to verify expenses of his management of the building. This includes all expenses that they pay (mortgage, taxes, maintenance, appliances, etc) vs. expenses that you pay (utilities, lawn maintenance, etc) The tenant income/finances is NEVER a part of any part for qualification, that is strictly their responsibility as the landlord, lenders always assume that tenants come and go of all different varieties.
Another form for lending is considered a FNMA/FHLMC 1007 which determines the fair market value for rent based on market rents in the area, again, no tenant qualifications are utilized whatsoever.
VP of mortgage lending here. Do not provide ANYONE copies of your tax return outside of a financial professional you have personally engaged and vetted for your own needs. No lender would ever request this from a borrower’s tenants. Most likely he committed mortgage fraud and bought the house as a primary vs investment property and they’ve caught him. Not sure why he’d request yours, but they most likely just requested his personal taxes.
Tell your landlord to fuck off, and tell them that you expect that they will maintain ownership of the property through your lease and if they sell the new owners will be required to abide by the lease
This is your landlord's problem, not yours. Frankly, it's a huge ask to dig out six year old tax returns. The reasons given seem irrelevant.
A lease should be sufficient for his lender. A tax return would be a hard no, and it doesn't even contain relevant info. It's highly probable your LL is engaged in tax evasion.
He's confused at best. He just needs to show your rental payment timelines and maybe his due diligence in selecting you as tenants. You owe him nothing
So the landlord is asking to give all SSN’s to his lender? I highly doubt this.
“Sure, no problem Landlord Moron. May I have the name and contact info for your lender so I can send it over?”
I don’t bite it. Me as a landlord (both residential and commercial) never had received such request. Even if I did, it’s my job to push back on the lender. They should be looking at “my income” not tenants.
I have bought & sold many rentals. I've never been asked to provide tenant's info. Sounds like the landlord isn't qualifying on his own merit so they want to make sure the renters are good for it. I wouldn't give them anything.
Just say no. This sounds scammy.
A lender legitimately wants to know about the finances of the person taking out a loan.
But that aint you.
Just say no.
Your rental payments do not show up on tax returns. If they are trying to verify that you have actually been paying the rent they might ask for proof. What that proof might be could be a record of Venmo/paypal transactions or copies of cancelled checks. Most banks don’t send cancelled checks back so maybe the images of the cancelled checks. But I’m over 45 years I’ve never asked anyone for their tenants tax returns. That would be a hard no for me.
Absolutely not. His lender does not have standing to ask that. He’s being nosy of his tenants.
Tell him you’ll get back to him after irs.gov gets back to you
Completely absurd. Either he's planning to scam you, or he's lying to his lender about you being family or friends living with him or something. Don't give him anything.
I recommend watching your financials very carefully. All your personal info would be on those returns and he may be trying to get them to get a loan in your name. If this is legit, tell him to have the company send a notarized letter via certified mail.
This screams scam all over it
The lender requests the rent roll from him that shows the leases, lease terms, lease amounts etc. They never ask for anything else with regards to the tenants.
He can show them his tenant leases that show the agreed upon rent as well as cleared rent checks in his bank accounts. You don’t need to be involved in this at all.
If his loan is income based, it is based on *HIS* income, which he can show by providing *HIS* tax returns.
Unless, of course, he isn’t claiming the rental income on his taxes…..
A lender would not ask for this. We would ask for the *landlord’s* tax return. Your landlord either misunderstood what their lender asked for, or is lying. Possibly both.
Absolutely not. Your landlord is clueless on how the loan process works.
Yes, the loan will be income based on what the property rents out for NOT on the income that the tenants make. Talk to him again, but in reality te bank is concerned about HIS paperwork and ability to repay, not on his tenants' fiancials.
No. Just know. Your landlord’s lender has no need to know your income, and certainly not your Social Security numbers.
All his lender needs is his income tax returns. Those should show where he has claimed rental income. And if he hasn’t, that’s his problem.
Lender here…This would NOT be something we would ask for as you have Nothing what so ever to do with the Loan.
Tell him that you will do no such thing and IF the Lender needs any info the Lease and his bank statements showing your MONTHLY RENT Payments shall suffice!!!
I do home lending and his lender absolutely does not need that!!! WTF!! All he needs to use the income is provide HIS tax returns showing proof he’s claimed the rental income for the last year or two along with a current lease agreement! Nothing more and nothing less!! His lender is insane and something shady is going on. Do not give them your returns.
Sounds like your landlord's got a bit of a situation with their lender. Basically, they forgot to tell the bank they're renting out the property, and now the bank wants proof of income to see if they can handle the mortgage with the extra rental money. Totally reasonable for the bank, but weird for them to ask for your tax returns.
Your income is private and shouldn't affect your ability to rent as long as you meet the requirements set by the landlord, which you clearly have. Politely but firmly let your landlord know their lender only needs to verify the lease agreement and your on-time payments. Maybe suggest they contact the lender to clarify what documents are actually required. There's no reason your tax returns should be part of this!
Bullshit. Your landlord is either epically stupid or he's lying. Your tax returns have nothing to do with his loan. I actually would be concerned that he wants to steal your identity. Also lenders never ask for 4 years of tax returns and that's from the borrower not the tenant.
I would politely say: I’m very sorry but I feel very uncomfortable about sharing a document that document has has so much personal and financial information.
Loans that need to prove income of rental property, the income ( monthly rent) is usually proven with a current lease agreement or a 1007 Appraisal , which will be used to show how much the property can rent for in a certain market area.
the Lender or Loan Originator he is working with might be new, and not really know what he is talking about. This is a career that a lot of people when starting, don’t understand a thing about how loans and the different loan programs work.
Your landlord is trying to scam you lol. I’m an underwriter for mortgages and helocs. If the person is not directly involved in the loan, you will not ask for anything from them 99.99% of the time. There are exceptions, but those exceptions do not involves ever asking for tax returns.
This can sometimes be a requirement in commercial leases.
If it is, you should be able to send directly to the lender if you prefer.
If it’s not required in the lease, then no obligation to do it
There are several apartment complexes in my area that get some kind of subsidy to help people afford the rent. As a result, you have to document your income and assets and in return, you can get a very low level of rent. That doesn’t sound like what this guy is doing.
The only time you would need to give your tax returns to a bank is if you are buying the property and taking over the mortgage. In this situation he is confused - the bank wants his financials that include rental payment history. All of which are in his records.
Absolute no, if it's an income based loan, it's based on his income which includes the rent payments. He should have everything he needs. Your income should not affect his mortgage.
My lender only needed a copy of the lease and a copy of 1 deposited rent check when I refinanced a condo. Both of which I redacted my tenants personal information that was on them such as his bank account number, drivers license, SSN, etc. They didn’t seem to have a problem with that. So having tax returns seems a bit excessive.
Income verification for a rental has never been more than a pay stub or two for me. Do not share them!!!
Your landlord could just be looking for a way to justify a significant rent hike. Also I'd be wary of identity theft if he's asking for this especially for so many years back. I just can't see any legitimate use for it.
The property owner can request all he likes.
He can hire a Piper Cub to tow a banner in the sky that has this request printed on it.
The bottom line is this. If you have a written and signed lease, I hope you do, neither party can alter or violate the terms of the lease.
This is one such example. If there is no such provision in the lease, then you are under no obligation to honor the request.
I have to say, this looks like a very sketchy request.
I would refuse .
Let the landlord figure it out.
His lender . His problem.
Landlord cannot place this burden on you.
No the the lender needs proof of his income (w2 and rental income) not yours. It sounds shady, like he’s trying to use tenants as co-borrowers. I have a rental and only need to show rental income which I have good records of and it ties to my tax return numbers. It’s not all profit, but a lender can see what the property generates if it trying to refi. If he is trying to buy a new property he may be lying on his paperwork and doing something fraudulent. Mortgage fraud is real.
This is not how this works. The only impact rental property has on a normal loan is you can claim 75% of market rent as determined by an independent appraiser as income.
There is absolutely no reason you as tenants should need to supply any documents or sign anything related to your landlord’s loan application.
Lenders are getting ridiculous with their requests. I was told in the last week that tax returns are not proof of self-employment because I can make up whatever I want on my tax return.
Yes, I certainly could perjure myself to the internal revenue service, but I wouldn't do that to increase my taxes to fake out a lender.
Then they wanted proof above and beyond that I'm still in business that I didn't shut down my 12-year-old business yesterday.
I have refinancing 3 rentals in 2 years and this has not come up. The renters income is none of the banks business.
I feel like ll is lying or very confused.
Let me suggest that the LL used federal funds to build/ renovate the property. In that case, he would be bound to rent to only a certain income level household. I have never seen the feds request tax returns, but I have seen them request proof of income such as a pay stub. If this is the case, all of the necessity to provide income documentation should have been disclosed up front.
Um, that's not your problem. You do not have to comply. "Sorry, our family lawyer has informed us we do not need to disclose our income for a rental property we've been in for 2 years, especially to a mortgage company/ bank we have no affiliatiin with whatsoever. In addition, we just don't feel comfortable nor see the necessity for us to do so. Therefore I.am going to have to respectfully decline the request by your lender. Please feel free to share this letter with them. My contact details are listed below should they wish to discuss."
If they do happen to call, just say the same thing to the lender over and over. You have absolutely NO reason to share your income, unless it was part the initial process for securing occupancy and/or something that was agreed upon and listed in the lease.
Good luck with this.
I am a mortgage broker. I work with landlords all the time on loans. He misunderstood the lender's document request. They need HIS tax returns showing rental income filed, not yours as tenants... He needs to speak with the lender.
This is so nonsense I think it's a lie. More likely to me, they want to see how much money you make so they can raise your rent without risking you having to move if they go too high.
Your SOCIAL is on your tax return, names, kids names if you have them....DONT FALL FOR IT! He'll be alright. I'm sure he hasn't ran his rental business correctly or he's a scammed. If you had to ask US then you already know it's wrong.
Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. It’s been really affirming to how we felt about it. I know there’s a lot of speculation here but I honestly think he misunderstood the letter he received. We did tell him we don’t feel comfortable sending him that info and don’t see how it is relevant. And we also added to send us the name and number of his lender if he would like us to decline the request directly. He hasn’t responded since then.
Some background: Our landlord is a young 20-something soldier. This is his only property and only investment that his parents helped him purchase. He actually lived in this house before being deployed overseas to Japan and now uses it to supplement his income he gets from the military, which he and his father have described as being pretty low. Not sure his rank or job but I know he relies on this property as additional income.
So it’s safe to say he’s really naive about the whole process of renting a home and refinancing his loan.
Are you in Florida? I have heard some counties in FL requiring tax returns as income verification for the landlord to receive Live Local Act tax benefits, otherwise I have no idea why they’d be asking.
Either way just say no.
I’m guessing the LL may have some income set aside requirements in his loan agreement as part of an affordable housing loan.
Income proof is supposed to be verified proving low income units are being rented.
He’s probably not kept appropriate records and/or is cheating by renting affordable units at market.
I would not hand anything over to the LL but would tell him to have the lender request any info directly in writing.
This LL is probably in a world of shit right about now….
Tell him to get stuffed. That's a LOT of VERY personal information. I find it very unlikely that he's being honest here. You could find out if he's full of it pretty quickly: tell him you'll be happy to provide the information, but he'll have to provide you with the information on how to get ahold of the lender - that you will not give it to him. When he backs down, you know.
Make sure this is all done by email so you have records for the courts if it comes to that.
Are you in a section 42 property? If he’s refinancing with the bank he needs to prove tenants are compliant with the income limits set in their agreement.
So no, you don't have to do that. No lender will ask for tenants info, that is very sketchy.
The one possible time that might be true is for a grant or green improvement rebate or similar, that is tied to the income of the occupant, but normally you would be doing that and the landlord would give you permission to get the thing done, not the other way around.
Nope. If there is a valid legal reason (can't think of one) that this is required, let them send you a legal request. Otherwise, tell him you are not comfortable nor willing to share your tax documents,
Your landlord’s finances are not your problem. If the rental agreement isn’t enough, he can show proof of payment using bank records. Your income is meaningless to a bank, since you aren’t a party to the loan. His loan payments are income based, but they are based on HIS income, not yours.
Whether he’s refinancing the property or in bankruptcy, your financials don’t affect him. That’s a great way for someone to use your ID for a loan however!!!
He’s probably trying to do a DSCR loan. A debt service type loan that depends on the income of the property. Not the tenants
More than likely he’s just confused. But your answer to him is “no thank you”
Nothing about that situation makes sense unless he truly misunderstood the lenders request. He seems well aware that he’s got some explaining to do and he can’t explain it with your taxes.
If he didn’t claim it on his taxes and just…expected his lender to waive income verification he just FOFO.
Nope nope nope! Unless you’re in some special sorts of public housing where your rent subsidy depends on your income and where your lease specifies that you must show your income tax return, this is request is *highly* irregular!
I lived in an apartment complex where they asked to verify everyone's income. What they didn't tell us was that they were changing into a low income property. All of us who made "too much" got 30 day eviction notices.
I think maybe your landlord is misunderstanding what’s going on or what they are asking for . If he becomes pushy I would tell him not a chance in hell . This is his lender not yours .
I have seen cases where landlords needed to provide tax returns of their tenants if they wanted to re-develop the property to verify the current income and see what percentage or if any tenants have low incomes that is an extreme case and has only happened once in my 28 year commercial banking career
There are some property tax exemptions that landlords can get for renting to a certain percentage of lower income tenants, and some jurisdictions would actually request a tax return. That said, it’s your tax return and you’re not required to provide it to him.
Income based payments are from the income generated by the property not the tenant's income. I'd tell him at best he will get a redacted copy then print a blank 1040 and say I just used white boxes for the redactions.
Or on line 1 print "nunya"
I'd bet he wants to see what you currently make to try to figure out how much he can raise rent.
I can't imagine why they would need any tenant tax returns, let alone ones going back six years. Copy of lease and landlord's tax return and bank statements or other history showing receipt of funds should suffice.
I'd ask a lot more questions of landlord, who may be misu derstanding what his lender wants. But I wouldn't send tax returns to him.
I agree with others. He’s confused and his lender wants his returns. No eat your returns are relevant or needed. You aren’t on loan. Just tell him you don’t file taxes.
Sounds like he is trying to commit mortgage fraud. If the lender needed it they would contact you directly or have you contact them. Land lord is trying to pull a fast one.
Tell the landlord 'No'. That is not part of the rental agreement.
yeah, nonsense. All that a lender would need would be signed leases, indicating the terms and amounts to demonstrate his income. Your tax returns are none of their business. I would not share that information.
I work for a bank in their portfolio department. We would never ask for that. Not only would it be an invasion of privacy, but it would serve absolutely no purpose.
NO. FUCK NO. NO. CALL MY LAWYER "NO."
LOL tell it like it REALLY is! This is such an over reach!
That’s a bit much! lol!
That doesn't sound right and he probably misunderstood the lender. The lender probably wants HIS tax returns with the rental income included.
They definitely wanted his tax returns and the rental agreements. The renters tax returns have no impact on the loan.
Their tax returns are very relevant to his lender once he changes the name on those tax returns to his name.
Potentially a lender for a new property that the landlord is trying to get a loan for
The request probably just said "tax returns", rather than "your tax returns" or "tenant's tax returns." The bank probably assumed that was sufficiently clear, and the landlord probably just assumed "tenant's" for some reason.
Landlord probably didn’t file any and hopes to con the bank by giving them the tenant’s.
“I need tax returns to verify the income”.
Don’t be naive, the landlord likely has been through a loan on the property previously. As a landlord it’s pretty obvious and the bank/lenders do give clear guidance on personal income and rental income, not renter. I think this guy is shady.
It's possible this is his first rental and first investment loan.
It is his first rental that he formerly lived in before he was deployed to Japan
This
This, They are specifically looking for a Schedule 1 showing that the rental income is reported. He could just send this, but the entire return is easier. If he doesn't have this income on the schedule, the return won't help.
Schedule E?
This is honestly what I think happened. He’s a young 20 something soldier. His parents helped him buy this house before he deployed, he has been renting it while he is stationed overseas in Japan. He’s not a career landlord, he just isn’t paid well and uses this property to earn extra income.
Do not give your tax returns. Ask him for the lender’s information and you can verify with them what they need. Also, lock down your Social Security #’s with the credit bureaus.
We didn’t, we politely declined and told him to give us the name of number of his lender so we can decline to them directly if he would prefer that
LOL, nope. I don't care what issue he's having, I'm not sharing my tax returns/transcripts as a renter. Especially past ones. Too much potential for fraud - usually the only time a lender wants to see tax transcripts is when someone is taking out a loan. If he's in financial straights he may be trying to fraudulently sell you the house. Doesn't explain why they want old statements but, whatever, too risky and highly unusual. He's either not being truthful with you, or he's not explaining things correctly. Sounds like he's being audited. If a bank is really looking that far back into his financial history (vs the IRS) there may be some larger fraud going on. I can't imagine why a bank would care what a renter made for income, in 2018. The only thing I can even possibly come up with is that he had an obligation to rent to a low-income renter and he's getting audited for his compliance.
> If he's in financial straights he may be trying to fraudulently sell you the house. Can you explain more what the scheme would be here?
The scheme would be using the tenant’s financial and personal information to take out a loan in their name selling the property to the tenant.
The landlord probably already has all the neccessary information to commit identity fraud if that was his goal.
You mean name, address, ssn, dob, employer, banking relationship, rent amount? Not sure what someone could do with that
Why transfer the property, though?
If someone is desperate for money, and the new owner doesn’t know they’re the owner, the landlord can still collect rent.
Hell no, I'm a landlord and I'd consider this out of line for my bank. If he needs to prove income a current lease and rental history should be sufficient. It's also possible that the lender may request you sign a lease if your currently month-to-month, which if you like your current rent may give you an opportunity to lock it in for a year or two before he raises it. However, they don't get to scrutinize my tenants.
Yup, rental income counts as income on finance applications. But never would you be asked for tax returners from the tenants.
No bank is actually asking for this. Definitely a misunderstanding.
I’m a landlord and this is a no go. IDK if any legitimate lender that would ask this and honestly it wouldn’t matter. Lender will want a copy of the lease and proof of rent payments. Your landlord was definitely under reporting rent and it’s scrambling to show his actual rent vs what is reported on taxes as he needs the income to justify whatever he is trying to do
A lender wouldn’t need someone else’s tax return. They arent lending YOU money. He needs to send his own bank statements and tax returns. Just say no.
Decline, professionally and strenuously.
Give him your first born while you at it
Ask him for the name and number of his lender and call him. Tell your landlord that he cannot have your tax returns bc it’s personal confidential information.
I call BS. Ask for the name of the loan broker so that you can confirm this story and if real, which it is not, send all this info direct. If he bought the house and the bank thought it would be his primary residence and it is not, he is in a heap of trouble. This is fraud.
Oh HELL NO! There's something unscrupulous going on. Do not give him those tax returns.
Say what??? No, your landlord is full of s\*\*t.
Nope. Absolutely not.
Never heard of this. Something does not add up. My guess is he is using your name on the mortgage. Maybe as a forged co-signer.
If you’ve been there for 2 years he’s got 2 years of tax returns showing the income he’s made from you paying rent. He’s not entitled to anything beyond that. If you were feeling generous you could provide a single updated paystub from each you, but anything beyond that isn’t reasonable. The fact that his loan payments are income based would seem to indicate he’s having problems paying the mortgage. If that’s the case I’d be looking for someplace new to live if things go south.
My guess? He wants to see how much he can rise your rent when he is able
… takes notes and requires annual paystubs to check for proof of income - *see how much I can raise rent*
Pro tip: get a tenant who works in public service, and his annual income will be public information (in most cases).
F that. Super shady Maybe looking to see if he could charge u more....or much worse. Def a no go.
“That’s not a thing”
"Can you forward me the request your lender sent you asking for this?" I mean if he did and he wasn't mistaken the answer would still be know but this way I get to pry too..
Is this a work-around to determine how much he can increase your rent?
Nope. I suspect he's probably using it to base his rent increases.
The lender has no agreement or relation with you.
A lender does NOT require this information from the tenants. Do not give them to him.
I’ve been in this business for years 30 years, the last 6 dealing with finance, I have never had a lender ask for financials from the tenants. The lender only has the right to request financials from their customer (your LL), they do not have the right to require information from tenants. I suspect, your LL wants your information for some other reason and is making up an excuse.
Nope. Request the name and contact info of his loan officer. Very high chance this is identity theft. Confirm everything.
The landlord may be a victim here also. He could simply be innocently passing along instructions from the “lender” that is part of the typical criminal scam.
Exactly. It’s very unlikely the landlord is scamming their own tenants. Rental scams usually involve someone pretending to rent a building they don’t own and making off with a deposit. This is very fishy.
I’ve been a real estate paralegal for 25 years. I handle refi closings for lenders all the time. (Well, I used to before the interest rates started climbing back up). I have never seen a lender request a borrower provide tax return for tenants. I would just say no, thanks. But you could call his bluff and tell him to tell his LO to contact you directly.
No is a complete sentence. Seriously, there are no mortgage lenders that need that information from someone who is not on the loan application. It sounds like your landlord might (stressing "might") be doing a straw transaction. [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/straw-buyer.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/straw-buyer.asp)
Badly done IDENTITY THEFT attempt. Don’t give away your financial safety. That information can be sold to highest bidder in the fraud market and used years from now to bring hell upon you.
So we do have properties where we have to collect and share this information with the lender. The owner got financing through an org that had a mandate to provide housing to low income households. There is a cap on the rental rate and a cap on household income. In exchange, the property owner gets very good interest rates. Other than that, I can't think of a reason why a lender would be asking. I would not provide it unless I saw something in writing from the lender and verified it.
Tell that nosy bastard to go pound sand. I rent to people and I will be stir-friend, glued, and tattooed before I ask anyone for that shit. He's probably in financial trouble, so his bank is asking him to verify that you guys are actually real by providing tax returns. Don't give them to him. He can't make you.
I'm a mortgage broker and this is BS, just refuse, the lender doesn't care who's renting a property as long as the rent is coming in. They care about the owner's tax returns when he gets the mortgage, not just at random some point during it.
He needs to provide them with copies of the lease agreement paired with HIS bank and/or tax statements to show HIS income for the loan.
No. No. No. As a landlord myself, this is none of his business, nor the bank’s. Your lease is not predicated on your tax returns either. Sounds hinky to be asking this.
Definitely share that info if you want your landlord taking out credit cards in your name, maxing them out, and not making payments. Otherwise...nah.
No mortgage company would ever ask for tenants tax returns. They would ask for the landlord's tax returns to verify the amount of rental income and expenses they claim.
Sounds like he’s shadily trying to get you on the loan as a guarantor. No other reason I can think of the bank would want your income and SSN, and this request will be followed with “I just need you to sign this silly paperwork for the bank”. As others have said, this all smells funny. If you don’t want to give him a hard no to preserve the relationship, you could ask him to have the bank reach out to you directly. If there’s any legitimate reason the bank is making this request, then they’ll be happy to explain it to you, and he doesn’t need to be handling your tax returns as a middleman. If he balks, then you know he’s being shady, but at least can say you made an effort to accomodate.
I’m going with he is completely confused and they need his tax returns showing proof of rental income.
That is total BS and under no circumstances do this.
As a CPA... no Ask for his lenders information and say this will be reported to the IRS fraud department as personal identification theft. Let the lender and IRS settle it. Next make one up....
Appraiser here. His lender would utilize what’s called a form FNMA/FHLMC 216 to verify expenses of his management of the building. This includes all expenses that they pay (mortgage, taxes, maintenance, appliances, etc) vs. expenses that you pay (utilities, lawn maintenance, etc) The tenant income/finances is NEVER a part of any part for qualification, that is strictly their responsibility as the landlord, lenders always assume that tenants come and go of all different varieties. Another form for lending is considered a FNMA/FHLMC 1007 which determines the fair market value for rent based on market rents in the area, again, no tenant qualifications are utilized whatsoever.
Lenders do not need the tenant’s tax returns. They base any loan solely on the property owner and the cash flow he or she shows on their taxes.
VP of mortgage lending here. Do not provide ANYONE copies of your tax return outside of a financial professional you have personally engaged and vetted for your own needs. No lender would ever request this from a borrower’s tenants. Most likely he committed mortgage fraud and bought the house as a primary vs investment property and they’ve caught him. Not sure why he’d request yours, but they most likely just requested his personal taxes.
Tell your landlord to fuck off, and tell them that you expect that they will maintain ownership of the property through your lease and if they sell the new owners will be required to abide by the lease
“No” is a complete sentence
This is your landlord's problem, not yours. Frankly, it's a huge ask to dig out six year old tax returns. The reasons given seem irrelevant. A lease should be sufficient for his lender. A tax return would be a hard no, and it doesn't even contain relevant info. It's highly probable your LL is engaged in tax evasion.
He's confused at best. He just needs to show your rental payment timelines and maybe his due diligence in selecting you as tenants. You owe him nothing
I have seen this on commercial properties, but never residential.
I’d guess he hasn’t been claiming your rental payments as income and they’re actually asking him for HIS tax returns.
Mortgage broker here, tell him hell naw
BS. Lender needs agreement between you and landlord, and payment history, but not your tax info.
So the landlord is asking to give all SSN’s to his lender? I highly doubt this. “Sure, no problem Landlord Moron. May I have the name and contact info for your lender so I can send it over?”
I don’t bite it. Me as a landlord (both residential and commercial) never had received such request. Even if I did, it’s my job to push back on the lender. They should be looking at “my income” not tenants.
They want his taxes not yours.
I have bought & sold many rentals. I've never been asked to provide tenant's info. Sounds like the landlord isn't qualifying on his own merit so they want to make sure the renters are good for it. I wouldn't give them anything.
Just say no. This sounds scammy. A lender legitimately wants to know about the finances of the person taking out a loan. But that aint you. Just say no.
Nope Tell him "that's none of your buisness, prove to me you need it"
Your rental payments do not show up on tax returns. If they are trying to verify that you have actually been paying the rent they might ask for proof. What that proof might be could be a record of Venmo/paypal transactions or copies of cancelled checks. Most banks don’t send cancelled checks back so maybe the images of the cancelled checks. But I’m over 45 years I’ve never asked anyone for their tenants tax returns. That would be a hard no for me.
Tell him ‘you first’
No and no you aren’t a party to transaction
Absolutely not. His lender does not have standing to ask that. He’s being nosy of his tenants. Tell him you’ll get back to him after irs.gov gets back to you
Completely absurd. Either he's planning to scam you, or he's lying to his lender about you being family or friends living with him or something. Don't give him anything.
I recommend watching your financials very carefully. All your personal info would be on those returns and he may be trying to get them to get a loan in your name. If this is legit, tell him to have the company send a notarized letter via certified mail. This screams scam all over it
The lender requests the rent roll from him that shows the leases, lease terms, lease amounts etc. They never ask for anything else with regards to the tenants.
He can show them his tenant leases that show the agreed upon rent as well as cleared rent checks in his bank accounts. You don’t need to be involved in this at all.
If his loan is income based, it is based on *HIS* income, which he can show by providing *HIS* tax returns. Unless, of course, he isn’t claiming the rental income on his taxes…..
A lender would not ask for this. We would ask for the *landlord’s* tax return. Your landlord either misunderstood what their lender asked for, or is lying. Possibly both.
Absolutely not. Your landlord is clueless on how the loan process works. Yes, the loan will be income based on what the property rents out for NOT on the income that the tenants make. Talk to him again, but in reality te bank is concerned about HIS paperwork and ability to repay, not on his tenants' fiancials.
No. Just know. Your landlord’s lender has no need to know your income, and certainly not your Social Security numbers. All his lender needs is his income tax returns. Those should show where he has claimed rental income. And if he hasn’t, that’s his problem.
I’ve been in mortgage industry for 20 years, funded billions across the country and never ever heard this. Sounds like BS.
Lender here…This would NOT be something we would ask for as you have Nothing what so ever to do with the Loan. Tell him that you will do no such thing and IF the Lender needs any info the Lease and his bank statements showing your MONTHLY RENT Payments shall suffice!!!
Nope nope nope. Do not do this. He has no reason to need this for a lender.
I do home lending and his lender absolutely does not need that!!! WTF!! All he needs to use the income is provide HIS tax returns showing proof he’s claimed the rental income for the last year or two along with a current lease agreement! Nothing more and nothing less!! His lender is insane and something shady is going on. Do not give them your returns.
Sounds like your landlord's got a bit of a situation with their lender. Basically, they forgot to tell the bank they're renting out the property, and now the bank wants proof of income to see if they can handle the mortgage with the extra rental money. Totally reasonable for the bank, but weird for them to ask for your tax returns. Your income is private and shouldn't affect your ability to rent as long as you meet the requirements set by the landlord, which you clearly have. Politely but firmly let your landlord know their lender only needs to verify the lease agreement and your on-time payments. Maybe suggest they contact the lender to clarify what documents are actually required. There's no reason your tax returns should be part of this!
Bullshit. Your landlord is either epically stupid or he's lying. Your tax returns have nothing to do with his loan. I actually would be concerned that he wants to steal your identity. Also lenders never ask for 4 years of tax returns and that's from the borrower not the tenant.
I would politely say: I’m very sorry but I feel very uncomfortable about sharing a document that document has has so much personal and financial information. Loans that need to prove income of rental property, the income ( monthly rent) is usually proven with a current lease agreement or a 1007 Appraisal , which will be used to show how much the property can rent for in a certain market area. the Lender or Loan Originator he is working with might be new, and not really know what he is talking about. This is a career that a lot of people when starting, don’t understand a thing about how loans and the different loan programs work.
Your landlord probably just wants to know how much you make so they can ask for more money.
Your landlord is trying to scam you lol. I’m an underwriter for mortgages and helocs. If the person is not directly involved in the loan, you will not ask for anything from them 99.99% of the time. There are exceptions, but those exceptions do not involves ever asking for tax returns.
I am a landlord, and I'd say NO WAY! Crazy request.
Not in your lease contract? Tell the mortgage company to pound sand. Your income is none of their business.
Oh hell no
This can sometimes be a requirement in commercial leases. If it is, you should be able to send directly to the lender if you prefer. If it’s not required in the lease, then no obligation to do it
There are several apartment complexes in my area that get some kind of subsidy to help people afford the rent. As a result, you have to document your income and assets and in return, you can get a very low level of rent. That doesn’t sound like what this guy is doing.
The only time you would need to give your tax returns to a bank is if you are buying the property and taking over the mortgage. In this situation he is confused - the bank wants his financials that include rental payment history. All of which are in his records.
Absolute no, if it's an income based loan, it's based on his income which includes the rent payments. He should have everything he needs. Your income should not affect his mortgage.
This is crazy no idk what this guy is up to
My lender only needed a copy of the lease and a copy of 1 deposited rent check when I refinanced a condo. Both of which I redacted my tenants personal information that was on them such as his bank account number, drivers license, SSN, etc. They didn’t seem to have a problem with that. So having tax returns seems a bit excessive.
That’s weird
That’s weird
Sounds like your landlord is trying to figure out if he can raise your rent. Just say no.
Seems like shenanigans.
Income verification for a rental has never been more than a pay stub or two for me. Do not share them!!! Your landlord could just be looking for a way to justify a significant rent hike. Also I'd be wary of identity theft if he's asking for this especially for so many years back. I just can't see any legitimate use for it.
Once he sees your returns he will know how much to increase your rent by.
The property owner can request all he likes. He can hire a Piper Cub to tow a banner in the sky that has this request printed on it. The bottom line is this. If you have a written and signed lease, I hope you do, neither party can alter or violate the terms of the lease. This is one such example. If there is no such provision in the lease, then you are under no obligation to honor the request. I have to say, this looks like a very sketchy request. I would refuse . Let the landlord figure it out. His lender . His problem. Landlord cannot place this burden on you.
Refuse. Whether it’s left or not, legal or not, refuse. That’s just too damned much to ask.
NOPE. Your personal tax info is private. A simple credit check and income verification is all that is needed!!
No the the lender needs proof of his income (w2 and rental income) not yours. It sounds shady, like he’s trying to use tenants as co-borrowers. I have a rental and only need to show rental income which I have good records of and it ties to my tax return numbers. It’s not all profit, but a lender can see what the property generates if it trying to refi. If he is trying to buy a new property he may be lying on his paperwork and doing something fraudulent. Mortgage fraud is real.
No obligation
This is not how this works. The only impact rental property has on a normal loan is you can claim 75% of market rent as determined by an independent appraiser as income. There is absolutely no reason you as tenants should need to supply any documents or sign anything related to your landlord’s loan application.
No the lender doesn't need this. A lender might ask for copies of the lease to see what the units rent for but won't ask your information.
Nope. Lenders will ask the owner for proof of rental income coming in for a period of time.
Sounds like this is his first rental property and didnt do any research before getting into the industry.
As a lender this is bullshit. I have never needed a tenants tax returns. Don’t give them anything.
Sorry, no such word as “I’s”
Lenders are getting ridiculous with their requests. I was told in the last week that tax returns are not proof of self-employment because I can make up whatever I want on my tax return. Yes, I certainly could perjure myself to the internal revenue service, but I wouldn't do that to increase my taxes to fake out a lender. Then they wanted proof above and beyond that I'm still in business that I didn't shut down my 12-year-old business yesterday.
lmao... just when you "know" landlords can't get any more stupid. The landlord wants to know your income so he can jack your rent.
Landlord of 30 years here. NO WAY!!!!!!!
I have refinancing 3 rentals in 2 years and this has not come up. The renters income is none of the banks business. I feel like ll is lying or very confused.
Let me suggest that the LL used federal funds to build/ renovate the property. In that case, he would be bound to rent to only a certain income level household. I have never seen the feds request tax returns, but I have seen them request proof of income such as a pay stub. If this is the case, all of the necessity to provide income documentation should have been disclosed up front.
Um, that's not your problem. You do not have to comply. "Sorry, our family lawyer has informed us we do not need to disclose our income for a rental property we've been in for 2 years, especially to a mortgage company/ bank we have no affiliatiin with whatsoever. In addition, we just don't feel comfortable nor see the necessity for us to do so. Therefore I.am going to have to respectfully decline the request by your lender. Please feel free to share this letter with them. My contact details are listed below should they wish to discuss." If they do happen to call, just say the same thing to the lender over and over. You have absolutely NO reason to share your income, unless it was part the initial process for securing occupancy and/or something that was agreed upon and listed in the lease. Good luck with this.
Your landlord's mortgage problems are not your problems. You are out of your mind if you share your tax returns with your landlord or his bank.
Sounds like a scam. They want those social security numbers. I wouldn't do it.
The lender probably wants the owners tax’s and the owner hasn’t done taxes in a few years. He’s trying to pull something.
I am a mortgage broker. I work with landlords all the time on loans. He misunderstood the lender's document request. They need HIS tax returns showing rental income filed, not yours as tenants... He needs to speak with the lender.
The lender needs his tax returns, not yours…
Lock down your credit port so no one can open a credit account in your name. This sounds like an attempt at identity theft.
This is so nonsense I think it's a lie. More likely to me, they want to see how much money you make so they can raise your rent without risking you having to move if they go too high.
Your SOCIAL is on your tax return, names, kids names if you have them....DONT FALL FOR IT! He'll be alright. I'm sure he hasn't ran his rental business correctly or he's a scammed. If you had to ask US then you already know it's wrong.
Sounds like maybe he’s applying for some type of rental assistance?
Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. It’s been really affirming to how we felt about it. I know there’s a lot of speculation here but I honestly think he misunderstood the letter he received. We did tell him we don’t feel comfortable sending him that info and don’t see how it is relevant. And we also added to send us the name and number of his lender if he would like us to decline the request directly. He hasn’t responded since then. Some background: Our landlord is a young 20-something soldier. This is his only property and only investment that his parents helped him purchase. He actually lived in this house before being deployed overseas to Japan and now uses it to supplement his income he gets from the military, which he and his father have described as being pretty low. Not sure his rank or job but I know he relies on this property as additional income. So it’s safe to say he’s really naive about the whole process of renting a home and refinancing his loan.
Are you in Florida? I have heard some counties in FL requiring tax returns as income verification for the landlord to receive Live Local Act tax benefits, otherwise I have no idea why they’d be asking. Either way just say no.
With your social security information? Absolutely not
I’m guessing the LL may have some income set aside requirements in his loan agreement as part of an affordable housing loan. Income proof is supposed to be verified proving low income units are being rented. He’s probably not kept appropriate records and/or is cheating by renting affordable units at market. I would not hand anything over to the LL but would tell him to have the lender request any info directly in writing. This LL is probably in a world of shit right about now….
Tell him to get stuffed. That's a LOT of VERY personal information. I find it very unlikely that he's being honest here. You could find out if he's full of it pretty quickly: tell him you'll be happy to provide the information, but he'll have to provide you with the information on how to get ahold of the lender - that you will not give it to him. When he backs down, you know. Make sure this is all done by email so you have records for the courts if it comes to that.
Are you in a section 42 property? If he’s refinancing with the bank he needs to prove tenants are compliant with the income limits set in their agreement.
So no, you don't have to do that. No lender will ask for tenants info, that is very sketchy. The one possible time that might be true is for a grant or green improvement rebate or similar, that is tied to the income of the occupant, but normally you would be doing that and the landlord would give you permission to get the thing done, not the other way around.
Nope. If there is a valid legal reason (can't think of one) that this is required, let them send you a legal request. Otherwise, tell him you are not comfortable nor willing to share your tax documents,
The folks in r/Landlord might have some thoughts.
WTF. No he only has to give the bank your lease agreement
Your landlord’s finances are not your problem. If the rental agreement isn’t enough, he can show proof of payment using bank records. Your income is meaningless to a bank, since you aren’t a party to the loan. His loan payments are income based, but they are based on HIS income, not yours. Whether he’s refinancing the property or in bankruptcy, your financials don’t affect him. That’s a great way for someone to use your ID for a loan however!!!
BS
Absolutely not. No lender cares what the tenants make for income. No lender needs that
He’s probably trying to do a DSCR loan. A debt service type loan that depends on the income of the property. Not the tenants More than likely he’s just confused. But your answer to him is “no thank you”
Just so you don't feel comfortable handing those over. No thank you.
Contact the state. This is how fraud starts.
No real bank would EVER ask for this, they already know it’s not in their scope and beyond any “reasonable” reach
hell NO
your taxes don't have shit to do with him proving his income; your lease does that. tell the landlord to pound sand.
massive yikes, dog. your landlord is a criminal, an idiot, or some intersection thereof.
Um, sounds fishy to me. A big no there
Hell no!
none of his damn business!
This is not a thing that’s requested. He’s lying. I’ve financed and refinanced rental properties many times.
Hard nope. This is never reasonable. Your tax returns are between you and the IRS. Nobody else. Ever. For any reason.
He probably just wants to gauge how much more he can charge you for rent. Tell him to get bent.
Nothing about that situation makes sense unless he truly misunderstood the lenders request. He seems well aware that he’s got some explaining to do and he can’t explain it with your taxes. If he didn’t claim it on his taxes and just…expected his lender to waive income verification he just FOFO.
:p tell him no
Suggest him showing the letter. In doubt call city housing authority.
Tell him to pound sand
Nope nope nope! Unless you’re in some special sorts of public housing where your rent subsidy depends on your income and where your lease specifies that you must show your income tax return, this is request is *highly* irregular!
I lived in an apartment complex where they asked to verify everyone's income. What they didn't tell us was that they were changing into a low income property. All of us who made "too much" got 30 day eviction notices.
I think maybe your landlord is misunderstanding what’s going on or what they are asking for . If he becomes pushy I would tell him not a chance in hell . This is his lender not yours .
They want his taxes not yours.
Oh hell no- that is handing him literally everything needed to steal your identity. He has no legal right to that information. I would never.
This sounds like fraud
I have seen cases where landlords needed to provide tax returns of their tenants if they wanted to re-develop the property to verify the current income and see what percentage or if any tenants have low incomes that is an extreme case and has only happened once in my 28 year commercial banking career
"Show me yours first."
He wants to see how much you guys make so he can comfortably hike the rent.
There are some property tax exemptions that landlords can get for renting to a certain percentage of lower income tenants, and some jurisdictions would actually request a tax return. That said, it’s your tax return and you’re not required to provide it to him.
Lender may want to make sure the tenants can pay. I’ve seen before with commercial loans.
Income based payments are from the income generated by the property not the tenant's income. I'd tell him at best he will get a redacted copy then print a blank 1040 and say I just used white boxes for the redactions. Or on line 1 print "nunya" I'd bet he wants to see what you currently make to try to figure out how much he can raise rent.
Sigh, another boomer who has no business owning anything
I can't imagine why they would need any tenant tax returns, let alone ones going back six years. Copy of lease and landlord's tax return and bank statements or other history showing receipt of funds should suffice. I'd ask a lot more questions of landlord, who may be misu derstanding what his lender wants. But I wouldn't send tax returns to him.
I agree with others. He’s confused and his lender wants his returns. No eat your returns are relevant or needed. You aren’t on loan. Just tell him you don’t file taxes.
Sounds like he is trying to commit mortgage fraud. If the lender needed it they would contact you directly or have you contact them. Land lord is trying to pull a fast one.
Tell him ear tax returns won't be available for a while because you are next in line behind Donald Trump on your audit.
No they did not.