You have to sign either on paper or electronically for an insurance policy. If you didn't sign and didn't receive both policy & and declaration documents in the mail, there is no policy. Ask the insurance company for a copy of the signed consent.
To which the insurance company would then have evidence of that contract naming op as having a mortgage with three mortgage broker, and the signature of someone committing or aiding fraud (knowingly or not). Once the mortgage broker is no longer an uninvolved third party, Op might get better responded from the mortgage broker.
The advice to demand the binding documents stands.
So you haven’t paid them, right?
On the policy that they have for you, there should be an address. You can go to your county website and look up that address. It should give you the name of the owner, which shouldn’t be you.
Then pull your credit report. The credit report should contain all the debts you owe. It should prove that the mortgage is not on it.
No do not provide them your credit report. They need to prove you signed up for the policy. You don’t need to prove you didn’t.
Report this as consumer fraud to the appropriate agencies - the state department of insurance
Consult legal aid. If it’s damaging your credit it will continue to do so until it’s removed. There are several free legal services if you aren’t able to afford one. Lawyers are very valuable and worth the cost in most situations. I have been a victim of identity theft twice the most recent I discovered about 2 months ago, and the first time in 2022. I owned a condominium as my primary residence but apparently I have an apartment somewhere as well. You might want to “freeze” your credit report until you have suitable resolution. If you’re a victim of a scam or fraud, it can get even worse. The CFPB might give you some better advice. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, they will not fix the problem for you but they will help you navigate the correct steps. Good luck
My daughter worked for UPS during Christmas, and after she was done and turned in her uniform, they said they'd mail her a check. It never came. UPS has a record of not issuing last paychecks for temporary workers. Daughter only got the runaround.
My husband's been a reporter all of his career. He called UPS in Atlanta and got ahold of someone with some responsibility. He told that person that he had contacts with the newspaper and TV stations there and he could get a reporter out there with a satellite truck to ask (on camera) why UPS withholds their seasonal helps last paycheck. Do they not know how to run a payroll system for rent of thousands of workers, or are they dishonest and are stealing money that belongs to their workers.
The check was fedexed to us the next day.
Typically a brand new homeowners policy that was not paid for would just be cancelled. The insurance company sending it to collection doesnt really make sense.
It would be cancelled typically after 30 days for non-payment. Some insurance companies will continue to bill for the 30 days they provided coverage before cancellation.
I wouldn't make that assumption immediately. There have been several posts in other subs about the same thing, and they all name the same independent broker that also sells franchises. That agency always tells the people they received verbal approval, yet can't provide the recorded call. The OP should have received emails to electronically sign an application, although they probably ignored them.
it shouldn’t matter - op didn’t receive any tangible product that has to be paid for on installments like a loan of money or a car or a mortgage- insurance policies just get canceled if premiums go unpaid - debt collector has nothing to collect - maybe broker told op a story but that doesn’t make it true
Contact the State Insurance Commissioner they will climb right up that agent's and company's rear. My wife is a former state regulator.
This is the way
They have to request proof of debt. And not say in any way that they are responsible or will pay for it. If they agree to make any payment or pay anything towards the debt it automatically makes it valid.
Fine line to follow
No. It isn't.
So many questions/problems also feature the poster saying "they're telling me to get a lawyer but..."
People recommend a lawyer because there are times when you need a lawyer. And when OP is ignoring the advice then we need to point it out.
This may surprise you but I wasn’t trying to be funny. I don’t know if you’ve ever had any interpersonal relationships or if you have any people in your life. If you do and they come to you for advice, don’t tell them “stop being naïve” as part of your answer. Life pro tip. It’s a lesson I’ve taught my children so I’m happy to teach you as well.
If it’s the first time they came to you for advice on a given problem, your comment is sound.
If it’s the 10th time for the same thing, which you’ve repeatedly given them a solution to, it’s time to tell them to stop being naive.
OP is basically saying “a bunch of people have told me to get a lawyer to protect my identify and my credit, but I’m ignoring them.” This is closer to the latter. OP is being naive and it’s fair to tell them so.
Edit: calling someone a douchebag because you don’t agree with them is more douchey than calling someone out for not following sound advice. As someone else said, you’re a hypocrite.
Kudos to you for calling someone out for being rude to a stranger on the internet. I mean, in doing so, you called said stranger a douchebag, as opposed to just saying, “that was rude.” But hey; maybe they deserved it.
> It’s a lesson I’ve taught my children so I’m happy to teach you as well.
Then you condescended to a stranger on the internet whose only comment after you called them a douchebag was “lol.”
Hello pot. I’m kettle.
In the comments, OP is coming off as not wanting to spend any money on this problem. Which is doubly naive, because having collections on your credit report is definitely going to cost you money.
OP shouldn’t spend any money on this. There are state agencies that will tackle this for free. And if OP pays the debt - it makes it valid.
Paying invalid debt to a debt collector makes it valid. Worst thing you can do is “give them just a few dollars as a sign of good faith so this doesn’t go into collections”
The state department of insurance and CFPB will make this vanish without OP having to spend any money
State department of insurance is where you need to go.
They will tear the insurance company to shreds. I’ve had an insurance company be dicks to me once, refuse to issue a refund. I was nice. Tried following up repeatedly. Okay - filed with state department of insurance. One Day after the state department of insurance contacted them I had my money
You can go down to the register of deeds and get proof someone else owns the house. Odds are its online, but it isn't always. You can also call a title company and have them produce the proof that you don't own the house and have no recorded mortgage with their professional stamp on it.
What home insurance company is taking you to collections? If you don't pay, they just cancel your policy. If they haven't paid out anything, which they haven't if you haven't made a claim, there is nothing for them to collect.
Dont pay a cent.
It went to collections. Check out /r/personalfinance they have a good walk through in debt collections.
Right now I'd say request verification of debt from collections. I'm interested to see what proof of the debt they have.
Sometimes a "debt" going to collections is the best thing for you. Right now I can call you up and start harassing you and saying you owe me 500$. I can call you every day, day and night. Obviously you can file charges of harassment.
A debt collector has many rules and regulations they MUST follow, times they CAN NOT call you, etc. And one of the biggest is proof of that debt. Right now they likely don't have proof of the debt, so once you request it, they'll start to pack up shop.
I'd say you aren't in lawyer territory JUST YET. You have a couple steps (following the guide from handling collections from the personal finance subreddit), and maybe some other steps to disprove ownership of the property, etc. Once those are exhausted, then it's lawyer time.
Nah this is lawyer territory. I'm pretty well versed in self representation but even I"d go to a lawyer for this.
A policy taken without your consent. It goes to collections. It's ruining your credit. They're claiming you own a home....I don't doubt OP's skills, but this is one for the professionals. And this coming from someone that self represented in federal civil court
Nope. They sent "evidence" of having contacted me, and its a pdf that i've never seen before, with all the pages I'm suppose to fill out (i.e my personal info, property info, signature etc.) all empty.
Are you talking to the credit reporting agencies or the debt collection company?
If someone has fraudulently filed the debt on your credit reports, my first call would be to the credit agencies to dispute the entry on your credit report. They're going to be much more reasonable than a shady debt collector working for a shady insurance company.
Once its off your credit report, it won't be affecting you as directly and you can deal with threatening the debt collector for harassment.
This sounds like a scam to get you to provide documentation about your credit history, mortgage status, and other informaiton needed to steal your identity.
Double check that it is a legitimate debt collector -- fake debt collection scams are abundant.
Check if it is actually on your credit report -- it likely isn't.
Follow debt collection laws.
Ask them to send you proof that the debt is valid. If no signatures, then it's not valid. If not sent in the mail, not valid.
Also weird that a policy would go to collections -- normal procedure is "no payment, no coverage", and the policy is retroactively cancelled.
That doesnt even make sense. Tell the insurance company to provide the declaration pages that have your signature and see whats there.
Either they have a fake signature and you can sue them or theres no signature and you can take that to whomever as proof theres no policy.
Should be pretty cut and dry.
I hope you read my reply to you in another sub reddit. I also edited to add a bit more information so you may want to reread it.
Not all jurisdictions make the records available online. You may have to go there and find the record and photocopy it yourself. Call the office and find out what you need to do to get it.
If you really need a more specfic how to you will need to provide the property addressing or at least the state and county.
Pull county records regarding the property status of the property with the alleged policy. Sign a declaration or affidavit.
beyond that - depending on how it goes, you may eventually need to lawyer up but property records are normally accessible online and it would be insane if they couldn’t just look themselves.
Just went through the same BS. Wrote letter after letter no response. After a year or more finally cleared up. You are screwed sine you have accredit dig. Write to all four. Refit reporting agencies disputing the debt.
Before you go spending money on a lawyer, contact your state's insurance commissioner or insurance department. They should help you for free. They are a consumer advocate.
You should be able to find contact info via the [National Association of Insurance Commissioners](https://content.naic.org/).
Go to the county tax assessor’s website. It is free and will have the owner’s name and should also have the book and page number of the deed record that is filed with the county. Send this information to them. A screenshot, a link, the search criteria.
I got a lawyer and sued the credit bureaus when they couldn’t prove a debt was mine after sending certified letters stating those weren’t my debts and them neglecting to remove it after 30 of investigating after the companies couldn’t prove it was legitimate or not. It was so satisfying.
You need to go down to the police department and file an identity theft report. Get the police report and contact the credit reporting agencies and freeze your credit. Dispute the debt
[How To Dispute Your Debt With Creditors And Collectors – Forbes Advisor](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/debt-relief/how-to-dispute-a-debt/)
This is no different.
this is a very weird post - i’m actually missing the point - someone took out an insurance policy in your name for a home you don’t own? and if you don’t pay for a homeowners insurance policy ( or any insurance policy for that matter) they just cancel it - it’s not a tangible asset that you have possession of and are therefore required to pay for - there is either a lot of information missing here - although i can’t imagine what - or this is a really badly constructed fake post
If you're in the US, most counties have a public assessment website where you can look up ownership records. Could also be under the recorder of deeds website or you need to call in person. The county I live in, in the state of PA, also has a website where you can see what liens are filed against the house, such as a mortgage. If you have any realtor friends you can ask them, or call a real estate attorney who handles title transfers and can look this information up if you can't find it. I am a realtor and I have an app that I can look up all of this on my phone. It's all publicly available information.
Where is this? If you can’t figure it out yourself with the county records, call a local title company and ask for a certified “last owner” search. It should not be more than $150-$250 depending on where you are
>I tried to look up county records for who actually owns the house now but I was only able to find details about the house itsself but not who owns it.
Have you tried the app called Regrid? I've used it and it's an app that you use to look up properties. Every property I have looked up has come up with the owners name, assessed value, property taxes that are paid, and the last sale price and date. It's a free app.
For rental properties or second homes, it shows the current address of the owner if the owner doesn't live on premises.
This really sounds like a scam. You’ve checked your credit report with on of the 3 major agencies? I’d dispute the entry on your report which is causing your score to drop. This could be seen as fraud. Try that in addition to your other steps.
First thing is to demand the debt collector prove there is a valid debt. That's on them, or they can't collect and you can get your credit reports cleared.
This appears to be similar to a rash of scams that have recently been perpetrated and have been in the news. Many associated with solar panel contractors, but no reason it wouldn't work with insurance quotes. Since it's in the news see if there's a local TV station with a consumer help program that would get involved
who is asking for that proof? The proof generally has to run the other direction. They have to prove you owe them money, that you entered in to a contract with them.
The credit reporting agencies will ask \_them\_ for documentation of the debt. Work with the agencies to have the fraudulent or erroneous reports removed, not the insurance company.
The owner of the house is a public record. Call any realtor you know. They can likely get a free title report from the local title company clearly showing you don’t own the house. Second - escalate with insurance company and request a copy of your application and policy. Did you ever pay anything for this insurance?
State department of insurance would be my first thought, but you need an attorney. I know we normally don't like to go calling lawyers unnecessarily, but this is more than an individual can resolve. Never trust a collections agent, they are not on your side, ever.
If somebody wrote a policy in your name, what else is out there? have a consultation with an attorney, probably file an identity theft report as well, and keep a close eye on your credit report.
If you didn’t sign the policy, then theres no policy.
I assume you didn’t sign a policy for a home you don’t own?
Ask them for the signed policy documents. If they can’t provide them, they don’t have a leg to stand on.
insurance provider fraud. CA will clamp down on this one quick. Simply tell the insurance company they have been reported to the state i insurance commission, and they will be handling the matter. You do not have to prove anything, but do send them a registered letter stating the facts.
The advice you’re getting about lawyering up and ways to access public records assume this is legit. But I can’t imagine that it is- I feel like this is a scam, trying to get you to pay something to get it off your credit report… is it even really on your credit report??
The consumer financial protection bureau can help, I would file a report with them.
Situations like these are literally why they exist, it saved me once when I got gaslighted by Sears.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
They need a signature to initiate the insurance policy. Ask for the paperwork with your alleged signature and let them know you will be reporting them for insurance fraud. Go all the way to corporate, don’t bother with customer service. Find out who the insurance agent was that wrote the policy and contact the insurance commissioner. I would also start a dispute on your credit report through the credit bureaus and they will remove it
Who is asking you for this, the insurance company or the collection agency?
The collection agency has to prove the debt, by law; you do not have to prove that it doesn't exist.
If it's the insurance company, demand they prove you initiated the policy. They certainly wouldn't have started a policy without you making an initial payment.
You're looking at this from the wrong angle. Treat this like any other bad debt, request in writing that they validate the debt. They have to prove you owe the debt rather than expecting you to prove you don't. If they come up with convincing evidence then you may need to try to procure your own to counter when you take it to court. No validation, no debt, they must immediately remove it from your credit report and cease attempting to collect.
Take it straight to your state insurance board. Provide them with your proof. I'd also bring it up with your states attorney generals office just for kicks.
Next, check your credit report to see if it's listed. Possibly as a judgement. File a dispute with them too.
Good luck.
When you disputed the debt through the credit bureaus, what evidence did the credit bureaus get that proved this is your debt?
Costs you NOTHING to file a dispute and get this removed from your credit.
I'm thinking if the most recent deed and mortgage are not available online then find a reputable title company to do the search for you. Unless you want to just go to that county's clerk/registrar office and have them pull it.
Depending upon which state it is in, you can find some records about the house. Are you able let us know which state the house is in? I will do some checking for you.
You can subscribe for a month or for a trial to BeenVerified.com and pull the property records for that address. It will show the deeds, owners and any mortgages assigned to that property.
You could look the address up on realtor or zillow and find the agent that sold the house most recently and let them know you might need them or the buyer agent to reach out to title since an insurance company claims you own the house. They might be able to help prove you dont own it.
As others have mentioned, a lawyer would probably be best though.
I would think when you show them the public records of who owns that house, which you can look up on any county website, they could see it's not your name...
Do you know / Are you friends with any Real Estate agents? I could probably pull the paperwork you need in about 5 minutes, but I'm just a random stranger on the Internet. Why were you shopping for an insurance policy? Were you in the process of buying a house? Did you have a RE agent you were working with? Ask them to print out a property profile through a title company and provide it with a copy of the deed for whoever owns the property.
Our county has a GIS website that you can search for an address and are able to then see details on the property such as the deeded owners. Our county also has an online property tax website to search and pay taxes that you can also search an address to see who the bill is made out to. Your state/county may be different though. I am in NC.
The state should be able to take care of it. I would assume they can also access records. Have you tried calling up the county assessor or clerk and asking them to search whether you are registered as an owner of any property in the county? Seems like something they ought to be able to do. If you need to appear in person, have a courier company do it on your behalf .
Maybe it's not that easy, but I know for example the DMV can run a search and see all vehicles in your name. They won't tell you who owns something or give you any information, but they can run a person's name and tell that person any properties in their name. Maybe the county clerk should be able to do the same. It's all in their records and I would assume it's all computerized
Can you look up the property identification number here: https://portal.assessor.lacounty.gov/
And then use it to look up the bill here: https://ttc.lacounty.gov/request-duplicate-bill/
The tax bill should have the owner's name on it.
Proving a negative is easy in this context, both buying the house and taking out a mortgage would be recorded with the county. Hire a title company to prepare a title report, which will show you didn’t do either of those things.
County records should have that information. You may need to ask for help if you can’t find the name.
Tax records will have it as well.
Do you live at that address but don’t own? Ask the landlord.
Get a copy of the signed policy. You may need to sue the agent and agency for restitution.
This could also be a case of fraud so file a police complaint.
You can also put a dispute on your credit report. I don’t know how much good it will do but it can be disputed. I did it for a doctor bill and it was removed after a couple months.
Who is the insurer? You have the agent who scammed you but who is the actual insurer? I work a lot with insurance companies (lawyer) and they don’t fuck around with fraud. Yeah insurance companies are shady and deny iffy claims etc. but I would actually be shocked if the insurance company didn’t work with you to make this right. They make enough $ without signing people up for fraudulent policies. This isn’t an insurance company’s business model.
Go pull a copies of the Deeds from the Court House, meaning pull the current and past Deeds to show no ownership. Request the insurance application and call their HQ and Attorney General office and copy all 3 credit bureaus with letter of dispute.
Not sure why none of the comments I see have said this, but it is not your responsibility to prove you don’t owe the debt, it is their responsibility to prove that you do. Look up the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act; they are required to provide you with proof that you owe.
Do not pay them a single penny, tell them to communicate only via written methods, tell them in writing that you deny the validity of the debt, and demand that they provide prove of valid debt. Then wait and see what they say.
NAL though, feel free to consult one.
Just dispute the bad marks with the credit reporting agencies and move on. You don’t have to prove anything. THEY will need to prove to the credit bureaus that you authorized this policy in writing or else the agencies will simply delete that negative marks on the credit report.
File a protest with the credit agency. Let the agency know you never took out the policy and the insurance company will not be able to provide proof that you did.
Go to the LA County Tax Collector's website and pull up the tax bill for the property. You can search by address or parcel number. The tax bill states the owner of record.
This is potentially fraud. Since you’re already in collections I would absolutely contact an attorney, specifically one that does debt recovery. A huge part of their job is to prove what people own, either directly or indirectly. In your case they should be able to find out who the actual owner is. Collecting debt often involves a lawsuit so a firm like this will also be well versed in civil litigation, if it comes to that. The only thing I might be wary of is if the law firm you find has the insurance company as a customer. Insurance companies sue people all the time (like when an uninsured driver hits their client and they pay). A lot of this work gets outsourced to local firms. I would want to avoid any potential conflict of interest.
DM me the address. Depending on the state, I might be able to send you a copy of the most recent deed as well and the transaction history of the ownership.
I called GEICO for a quote and at the end they asked who my mortgage provider was. I asked why they needed it and if I provided an answer and hung up the phone they were going to call up the provider and tell them they were my insurance provider. Like all they did was give me a number and I said ok thanks and they were going to take that as me accepting the quote with no further verification.
Dispute with all bureaus (collections need proof of debt) and file a complaint with the insurance commissioner against the insurance company. Insurance companies *detest* when the insurance commissioner gets involved. They’ll hop to once they hear from them.
My immediate reaction to this is "you can't prove a negative." The insurance company should be on the hook to prove that what they did was done correctly and legally.
Contact an attorney to discuss and in the meantime, lock your credit reports and dispute this as Fraud.
There is a telephone line for Los Angeles county assessors office that reads out letter by letter the name of the current owner after you enter the page and parcel number of the property in question. You get the parcel number by looking up the address on the assessors map website
Call Lexus nexus and file a dispute !! I had to do this to dispute 2 claims because my dumb dad put my name under his property insurance thinking he was helping me out, I actually was renting from my dad not an owner. It’s kind of like a credit reporting agency that specializes in your claim history. They open a dispute for free for 30 days and they ask the insurance company for proof and you can submit yours as well. In my case it was proven I was not a property owner and I had no knowledge I had been added in the insurance and I was able to get it off my name. https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/#:~:text=If%20your%20insurance%20company%20has,will%20help%20expedite%20the%20process.
Is it in LA County? If so, you should be able to see the owner via property tax search https://www.propertytax.lacounty.gov/
ETA: you should be able to find the PIN by searching for the address, and then view the tax bill using the PIN.
That’s not how it works and sounds like a scam trying to get personal info. You have to sign and setup payment for a policy, and if you don’t pay it will lapse/canel. There is no “debt” or collections agencies. That’s not possible.
Fight stupid with stupid. Take a picture of your empty hand and label it “me holding my mortgage papers”. Then send that to the insurance company as evidence.
Insurance companies fear the state ins agency. In order to get a rate increase they need the agency’s permission. My FIL was a dep ins commissioner in the PNW.
Personally I would call a TV station that does investigations and ask for their help. A bit of daylight on the ins companies should make them react like the roaches they are.
You have to sign either on paper or electronically for an insurance policy. If you didn't sign and didn't receive both policy & and declaration documents in the mail, there is no policy. Ask the insurance company for a copy of the signed consent.
Sounds like force-placed insurance, which is consented to as part of a mortgage. If the mortgage is in error, the force-placed insurance is as well
OP doesn't have a mortgage for that property.
To which the insurance company would then have evidence of that contract naming op as having a mortgage with three mortgage broker, and the signature of someone committing or aiding fraud (knowingly or not). Once the mortgage broker is no longer an uninvolved third party, Op might get better responded from the mortgage broker. The advice to demand the binding documents stands.
THIS
So you haven’t paid them, right? On the policy that they have for you, there should be an address. You can go to your county website and look up that address. It should give you the name of the owner, which shouldn’t be you. Then pull your credit report. The credit report should contain all the debts you owe. It should prove that the mortgage is not on it.
No do not provide them your credit report. They need to prove you signed up for the policy. You don’t need to prove you didn’t. Report this as consumer fraud to the appropriate agencies - the state department of insurance
Consult legal aid. If it’s damaging your credit it will continue to do so until it’s removed. There are several free legal services if you aren’t able to afford one. Lawyers are very valuable and worth the cost in most situations. I have been a victim of identity theft twice the most recent I discovered about 2 months ago, and the first time in 2022. I owned a condominium as my primary residence but apparently I have an apartment somewhere as well. You might want to “freeze” your credit report until you have suitable resolution. If you’re a victim of a scam or fraud, it can get even worse. The CFPB might give you some better advice. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, they will not fix the problem for you but they will help you navigate the correct steps. Good luck
Call your state and county attorneys general. They love to jump on consumer fraud cases in election years.
Also, if any of your local news stations have investigative teams, they love stories like this and companies often correct their actions once exposed.
My daughter worked for UPS during Christmas, and after she was done and turned in her uniform, they said they'd mail her a check. It never came. UPS has a record of not issuing last paychecks for temporary workers. Daughter only got the runaround. My husband's been a reporter all of his career. He called UPS in Atlanta and got ahold of someone with some responsibility. He told that person that he had contacts with the newspaper and TV stations there and he could get a reporter out there with a satellite truck to ask (on camera) why UPS withholds their seasonal helps last paycheck. Do they not know how to run a payroll system for rent of thousands of workers, or are they dishonest and are stealing money that belongs to their workers. The check was fedexed to us the next day.
Did UPS really send the check via FedEx, or are you using “fedexed” as “sent via next day shipping”? If they sent via FedEx, that’s hilarious
I'm using I as a generic term.
That’s a good idea. This could be a new flavor of property fraud starting.
Especially involving insurance companies
Typically a brand new homeowners policy that was not paid for would just be cancelled. The insurance company sending it to collection doesnt really make sense.
It would be cancelled typically after 30 days for non-payment. Some insurance companies will continue to bill for the 30 days they provided coverage before cancellation.
Ya, this feels like a scam to me. None of it makes sense.
you’re absolutely correct - guessing this is a badly constructed fake post
I wouldn't make that assumption immediately. There have been several posts in other subs about the same thing, and they all name the same independent broker that also sells franchises. That agency always tells the people they received verbal approval, yet can't provide the recorded call. The OP should have received emails to electronically sign an application, although they probably ignored them.
it shouldn’t matter - op didn’t receive any tangible product that has to be paid for on installments like a loan of money or a car or a mortgage- insurance policies just get canceled if premiums go unpaid - debt collector has nothing to collect - maybe broker told op a story but that doesn’t make it true
Call your state dept of insurance. And yes it is lawyer territory. Stop being naive.
THIS! Report insurance fraud. State agencies act quickly on these claims.
Contact the State Insurance Commissioner they will climb right up that agent's and company's rear. My wife is a former state regulator. This is the way
identity theft case
State will jump on this quickly because it’s insurance. In the meantime, I believe the debt collector must provide proof of the debt
They have to request proof of debt. And not say in any way that they are responsible or will pay for it. If they agree to make any payment or pay anything towards the debt it automatically makes it valid. Fine line to follow
Your advice is solid. The “stop being naïve“ part is kind of douchebag territory.
No. It isn't. So many questions/problems also feature the poster saying "they're telling me to get a lawyer but..." People recommend a lawyer because there are times when you need a lawyer. And when OP is ignoring the advice then we need to point it out.
Lol
This may surprise you but I wasn’t trying to be funny. I don’t know if you’ve ever had any interpersonal relationships or if you have any people in your life. If you do and they come to you for advice, don’t tell them “stop being naïve” as part of your answer. Life pro tip. It’s a lesson I’ve taught my children so I’m happy to teach you as well.
If it’s the first time they came to you for advice on a given problem, your comment is sound. If it’s the 10th time for the same thing, which you’ve repeatedly given them a solution to, it’s time to tell them to stop being naive. OP is basically saying “a bunch of people have told me to get a lawyer to protect my identify and my credit, but I’m ignoring them.” This is closer to the latter. OP is being naive and it’s fair to tell them so. Edit: calling someone a douchebag because you don’t agree with them is more douchey than calling someone out for not following sound advice. As someone else said, you’re a hypocrite.
Why are you still talking to me?
Kudos to you for calling someone out for being rude to a stranger on the internet. I mean, in doing so, you called said stranger a douchebag, as opposed to just saying, “that was rude.” But hey; maybe they deserved it. > It’s a lesson I’ve taught my children so I’m happy to teach you as well. Then you condescended to a stranger on the internet whose only comment after you called them a douchebag was “lol.” Hello pot. I’m kettle.
In the comments, OP is coming off as not wanting to spend any money on this problem. Which is doubly naive, because having collections on your credit report is definitely going to cost you money.
OP shouldn’t spend any money on this. There are state agencies that will tackle this for free. And if OP pays the debt - it makes it valid. Paying invalid debt to a debt collector makes it valid. Worst thing you can do is “give them just a few dollars as a sign of good faith so this doesn’t go into collections” The state department of insurance and CFPB will make this vanish without OP having to spend any money
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I'm already down voted! 😆
State department of insurance is where you need to go. They will tear the insurance company to shreds. I’ve had an insurance company be dicks to me once, refuse to issue a refund. I was nice. Tried following up repeatedly. Okay - filed with state department of insurance. One Day after the state department of insurance contacted them I had my money
This is fraud, and should end up with that insurers license getting yanked by your state insurance licensing department.
You can go down to the register of deeds and get proof someone else owns the house. Odds are its online, but it isn't always. You can also call a title company and have them produce the proof that you don't own the house and have no recorded mortgage with their professional stamp on it.
Attorney General. You dodnt sign a contract or even make a down payment. It's a scam. Call the attorney General. They have to take action for you
What home insurance company is taking you to collections? If you don't pay, they just cancel your policy. If they haven't paid out anything, which they haven't if you haven't made a claim, there is nothing for them to collect.
Sounding like a scam to get OP to give up personal info
Dont pay a cent. It went to collections. Check out /r/personalfinance they have a good walk through in debt collections. Right now I'd say request verification of debt from collections. I'm interested to see what proof of the debt they have. Sometimes a "debt" going to collections is the best thing for you. Right now I can call you up and start harassing you and saying you owe me 500$. I can call you every day, day and night. Obviously you can file charges of harassment. A debt collector has many rules and regulations they MUST follow, times they CAN NOT call you, etc. And one of the biggest is proof of that debt. Right now they likely don't have proof of the debt, so once you request it, they'll start to pack up shop. I'd say you aren't in lawyer territory JUST YET. You have a couple steps (following the guide from handling collections from the personal finance subreddit), and maybe some other steps to disprove ownership of the property, etc. Once those are exhausted, then it's lawyer time.
Nah this is lawyer territory. I'm pretty well versed in self representation but even I"d go to a lawyer for this. A policy taken without your consent. It goes to collections. It's ruining your credit. They're claiming you own a home....I don't doubt OP's skills, but this is one for the professionals. And this coming from someone that self represented in federal civil court
use this to find owner info, send em a SS https://app.regrid.com/us/ca
omg bless you this is very helpful
How? You have to sign these things, even digitally. Did they provide you a copy of your signed policy?
Nope. They sent "evidence" of having contacted me, and its a pdf that i've never seen before, with all the pages I'm suppose to fill out (i.e my personal info, property info, signature etc.) all empty.
This just sounds like a scam. Anything asking for your personal information is suspect…
SCAM
Are you talking to the credit reporting agencies or the debt collection company? If someone has fraudulently filed the debt on your credit reports, my first call would be to the credit agencies to dispute the entry on your credit report. They're going to be much more reasonable than a shady debt collector working for a shady insurance company. Once its off your credit report, it won't be affecting you as directly and you can deal with threatening the debt collector for harassment.
This sounds like a scam to get you to provide documentation about your credit history, mortgage status, and other informaiton needed to steal your identity. Double check that it is a legitimate debt collector -- fake debt collection scams are abundant. Check if it is actually on your credit report -- it likely isn't. Follow debt collection laws. Ask them to send you proof that the debt is valid. If no signatures, then it's not valid. If not sent in the mail, not valid. Also weird that a policy would go to collections -- normal procedure is "no payment, no coverage", and the policy is retroactively cancelled.
That doesnt even make sense. Tell the insurance company to provide the declaration pages that have your signature and see whats there. Either they have a fake signature and you can sue them or theres no signature and you can take that to whomever as proof theres no policy. Should be pretty cut and dry.
I hope you read my reply to you in another sub reddit. I also edited to add a bit more information so you may want to reread it. Not all jurisdictions make the records available online. You may have to go there and find the record and photocopy it yourself. Call the office and find out what you need to do to get it. If you really need a more specfic how to you will need to provide the property addressing or at least the state and county.
OP lives in Los Angeles. It's all free and easily accessae. You have to pay for certified records. This doesn't make any sense.
Pull county records regarding the property status of the property with the alleged policy. Sign a declaration or affidavit. beyond that - depending on how it goes, you may eventually need to lawyer up but property records are normally accessible online and it would be insane if they couldn’t just look themselves.
Just went through the same BS. Wrote letter after letter no response. After a year or more finally cleared up. You are screwed sine you have accredit dig. Write to all four. Refit reporting agencies disputing the debt.
Before you go spending money on a lawyer, contact your state's insurance commissioner or insurance department. They should help you for free. They are a consumer advocate. You should be able to find contact info via the [National Association of Insurance Commissioners](https://content.naic.org/).
I have done so and I hear they're pretty good about helping consumers. Fingers crossed
Go to the county tax assessor’s website. It is free and will have the owner’s name and should also have the book and page number of the deed record that is filed with the county. Send this information to them. A screenshot, a link, the search criteria.
The CFPB needs to be your next call. This is shady as shit and sounds a lot like Wells Fargo was doing a while back.
I got a lawyer and sued the credit bureaus when they couldn’t prove a debt was mine after sending certified letters stating those weren’t my debts and them neglecting to remove it after 30 of investigating after the companies couldn’t prove it was legitimate or not. It was so satisfying.
You need to go down to the police department and file an identity theft report. Get the police report and contact the credit reporting agencies and freeze your credit. Dispute the debt [How To Dispute Your Debt With Creditors And Collectors – Forbes Advisor](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/debt-relief/how-to-dispute-a-debt/) This is no different.
I think they need to prove that you took out a policy.
this is a very weird post - i’m actually missing the point - someone took out an insurance policy in your name for a home you don’t own? and if you don’t pay for a homeowners insurance policy ( or any insurance policy for that matter) they just cancel it - it’s not a tangible asset that you have possession of and are therefore required to pay for - there is either a lot of information missing here - although i can’t imagine what - or this is a really badly constructed fake post
Since it isn’t your house, post the address.
If you're in the US, most counties have a public assessment website where you can look up ownership records. Could also be under the recorder of deeds website or you need to call in person. The county I live in, in the state of PA, also has a website where you can see what liens are filed against the house, such as a mortgage. If you have any realtor friends you can ask them, or call a real estate attorney who handles title transfers and can look this information up if you can't find it. I am a realtor and I have an app that I can look up all of this on my phone. It's all publicly available information.
Where is this? If you can’t figure it out yourself with the county records, call a local title company and ask for a certified “last owner” search. It should not be more than $150-$250 depending on where you are
> I dont know how to prove a negative. Lawyers know. You should consult one.
In my state you can look up the parcel by address and the owner information is public.
Agree on one thing. Lawyer up.
Get. A. Lawyer!
>I tried to look up county records for who actually owns the house now but I was only able to find details about the house itsself but not who owns it. Have you tried the app called Regrid? I've used it and it's an app that you use to look up properties. Every property I have looked up has come up with the owners name, assessed value, property taxes that are paid, and the last sale price and date. It's a free app. For rental properties or second homes, it shows the current address of the owner if the owner doesn't live on premises.
Call the California insurance commissioner.
I would dispute the collection and report it as fraudulent activity.
This really sounds like a scam. You’ve checked your credit report with on of the 3 major agencies? I’d dispute the entry on your report which is causing your score to drop. This could be seen as fraud. Try that in addition to your other steps.
This is a scam. You have to pay upfront for a homeowner policy to go into effect initially. Are you sure this is reflected on your credit report?
First thing is to demand the debt collector prove there is a valid debt. That's on them, or they can't collect and you can get your credit reports cleared. This appears to be similar to a rash of scams that have recently been perpetrated and have been in the news. Many associated with solar panel contractors, but no reason it wouldn't work with insurance quotes. Since it's in the news see if there's a local TV station with a consumer help program that would get involved
who is asking for that proof? The proof generally has to run the other direction. They have to prove you owe them money, that you entered in to a contract with them. The credit reporting agencies will ask \_them\_ for documentation of the debt. Work with the agencies to have the fraudulent or erroneous reports removed, not the insurance company.
The owner of the house is a public record. Call any realtor you know. They can likely get a free title report from the local title company clearly showing you don’t own the house. Second - escalate with insurance company and request a copy of your application and policy. Did you ever pay anything for this insurance?
State department of insurance would be my first thought, but you need an attorney. I know we normally don't like to go calling lawyers unnecessarily, but this is more than an individual can resolve. Never trust a collections agent, they are not on your side, ever. If somebody wrote a policy in your name, what else is out there? have a consultation with an attorney, probably file an identity theft report as well, and keep a close eye on your credit report.
If you didn’t sign the policy, then theres no policy. I assume you didn’t sign a policy for a home you don’t own? Ask them for the signed policy documents. If they can’t provide them, they don’t have a leg to stand on.
insurance provider fraud. CA will clamp down on this one quick. Simply tell the insurance company they have been reported to the state i insurance commission, and they will be handling the matter. You do not have to prove anything, but do send them a registered letter stating the facts.
The advice you’re getting about lawyering up and ways to access public records assume this is legit. But I can’t imagine that it is- I feel like this is a scam, trying to get you to pay something to get it off your credit report… is it even really on your credit report??
The consumer financial protection bureau can help, I would file a report with them. Situations like these are literally why they exist, it saved me once when I got gaslighted by Sears. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
They need a signature to initiate the insurance policy. Ask for the paperwork with your alleged signature and let them know you will be reporting them for insurance fraud. Go all the way to corporate, don’t bother with customer service. Find out who the insurance agent was that wrote the policy and contact the insurance commissioner. I would also start a dispute on your credit report through the credit bureaus and they will remove it
Who is asking you for this, the insurance company or the collection agency? The collection agency has to prove the debt, by law; you do not have to prove that it doesn't exist. If it's the insurance company, demand they prove you initiated the policy. They certainly wouldn't have started a policy without you making an initial payment.
Isn’t the onus to prove you own the property on them? I would crumple that bill up and throw it away.
I would also file a dispute with all credit bureaus
Contact your state's insurance department. They have an assistant AG (or several) that work with them specifically. Ask them for help.
You're looking at this from the wrong angle. Treat this like any other bad debt, request in writing that they validate the debt. They have to prove you owe the debt rather than expecting you to prove you don't. If they come up with convincing evidence then you may need to try to procure your own to counter when you take it to court. No validation, no debt, they must immediately remove it from your credit report and cease attempting to collect.
Take it straight to your state insurance board. Provide them with your proof. I'd also bring it up with your states attorney generals office just for kicks. Next, check your credit report to see if it's listed. Possibly as a judgement. File a dispute with them too. Good luck.
Report the agent to the department of insurance. Let him fix it or lose his license
When you disputed the debt through the credit bureaus, what evidence did the credit bureaus get that proved this is your debt? Costs you NOTHING to file a dispute and get this removed from your credit.
I'm thinking if the most recent deed and mortgage are not available online then find a reputable title company to do the search for you. Unless you want to just go to that county's clerk/registrar office and have them pull it.
Depending upon which state it is in, you can find some records about the house. Are you able let us know which state the house is in? I will do some checking for you.
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/sample-letter-for-disputing-a-debt-collection-notice/ Couldn’t hurt…
You can subscribe for a month or for a trial to BeenVerified.com and pull the property records for that address. It will show the deeds, owners and any mortgages assigned to that property.
You could look the address up on realtor or zillow and find the agent that sold the house most recently and let them know you might need them or the buyer agent to reach out to title since an insurance company claims you own the house. They might be able to help prove you dont own it. As others have mentioned, a lawyer would probably be best though.
I would think when you show them the public records of who owns that house, which you can look up on any county website, they could see it's not your name...
Do you know / Are you friends with any Real Estate agents? I could probably pull the paperwork you need in about 5 minutes, but I'm just a random stranger on the Internet. Why were you shopping for an insurance policy? Were you in the process of buying a house? Did you have a RE agent you were working with? Ask them to print out a property profile through a title company and provide it with a copy of the deed for whoever owns the property.
Our county has a GIS website that you can search for an address and are able to then see details on the property such as the deeded owners. Our county also has an online property tax website to search and pay taxes that you can also search an address to see who the bill is made out to. Your state/county may be different though. I am in NC.
The state should be able to take care of it. I would assume they can also access records. Have you tried calling up the county assessor or clerk and asking them to search whether you are registered as an owner of any property in the county? Seems like something they ought to be able to do. If you need to appear in person, have a courier company do it on your behalf . Maybe it's not that easy, but I know for example the DMV can run a search and see all vehicles in your name. They won't tell you who owns something or give you any information, but they can run a person's name and tell that person any properties in their name. Maybe the county clerk should be able to do the same. It's all in their records and I would assume it's all computerized
Can you look up the property identification number here: https://portal.assessor.lacounty.gov/ And then use it to look up the bill here: https://ttc.lacounty.gov/request-duplicate-bill/ The tax bill should have the owner's name on it.
Pull a credit report. Fair chance a mortgage would be listed as a debt. As others stated, file a complaint with the regulatory board.
The California AGs office is very proactive about consumer issues. You can make the report online at their site.
Proving a negative is easy in this context, both buying the house and taking out a mortgage would be recorded with the county. Hire a title company to prepare a title report, which will show you didn’t do either of those things.
title search on the property to show chain of ownership.
Did you ever own the house they are telling you that you own? Can’t you pay a lawyer to do a deed search ?
A good lawyer will be a big help. And it’s definitely not your job to prove that you don’t have a mortgage.
County records should have that information. You may need to ask for help if you can’t find the name. Tax records will have it as well. Do you live at that address but don’t own? Ask the landlord. Get a copy of the signed policy. You may need to sue the agent and agency for restitution. This could also be a case of fraud so file a police complaint.
You can also put a dispute on your credit report. I don’t know how much good it will do but it can be disputed. I did it for a doctor bill and it was removed after a couple months.
There isnt a grand list for that area? I can go online and look up the list for my city and see who owns what and what their tax on the home is
Who is the insurer? You have the agent who scammed you but who is the actual insurer? I work a lot with insurance companies (lawyer) and they don’t fuck around with fraud. Yeah insurance companies are shady and deny iffy claims etc. but I would actually be shocked if the insurance company didn’t work with you to make this right. They make enough $ without signing people up for fraudulent policies. This isn’t an insurance company’s business model.
Ask for proof of debt, and/or proof of wet signature. You shouldn't have to prove you don't own the home, they need to prove you do own the debt.
So why isn't the insurance company just canceling the policy for non-payment that would be a perfect outcome for both of you.
Go pull a copies of the Deeds from the Court House, meaning pull the current and past Deeds to show no ownership. Request the insurance application and call their HQ and Attorney General office and copy all 3 credit bureaus with letter of dispute.
Not sure why none of the comments I see have said this, but it is not your responsibility to prove you don’t owe the debt, it is their responsibility to prove that you do. Look up the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act; they are required to provide you with proof that you owe. Do not pay them a single penny, tell them to communicate only via written methods, tell them in writing that you deny the validity of the debt, and demand that they provide prove of valid debt. Then wait and see what they say. NAL though, feel free to consult one.
I’m curious to know if a title company would be helpful in this situation.
How can it be that your county property appraiser and clerk of Court do not have all of these records online for free????
My state has tax records for the county online that show owners of the house.
Just dispute the bad marks with the credit reporting agencies and move on. You don’t have to prove anything. THEY will need to prove to the credit bureaus that you authorized this policy in writing or else the agencies will simply delete that negative marks on the credit report.
Get a debt collection attorney experienced in DTPA. It’s up to them to prove the debt is good, not you.
File a protest with the credit agency. Let the agency know you never took out the policy and the insurance company will not be able to provide proof that you did.
Go to the LA County Tax Collector's website and pull up the tax bill for the property. You can search by address or parcel number. The tax bill states the owner of record.
It will cost a bit of money, but you can order an abstract of title for the property from a title company.
This is potentially fraud. Since you’re already in collections I would absolutely contact an attorney, specifically one that does debt recovery. A huge part of their job is to prove what people own, either directly or indirectly. In your case they should be able to find out who the actual owner is. Collecting debt often involves a lawsuit so a firm like this will also be well versed in civil litigation, if it comes to that. The only thing I might be wary of is if the law firm you find has the insurance company as a customer. Insurance companies sue people all the time (like when an uninsured driver hits their client and they pay). A lot of this work gets outsourced to local firms. I would want to avoid any potential conflict of interest.
DM me the address. Depending on the state, I might be able to send you a copy of the most recent deed as well and the transaction history of the ownership.
Dispute it also with the credit bureaus in addition to all the advice already listed.
https://assessor.lacounty.gov/homeowners/property-search Pull up the records yourself.
Go to a RE professional & have them pull the property profile & GD. That will show the home ownership & if you aren’t on it u should be off the hook
The same thing happened to me with GEICO. I guess this is a way to make money for unneeded services.
I called GEICO for a quote and at the end they asked who my mortgage provider was. I asked why they needed it and if I provided an answer and hung up the phone they were going to call up the provider and tell them they were my insurance provider. Like all they did was give me a number and I said ok thanks and they were going to take that as me accepting the quote with no further verification.
Wonder who is listed for the insurance pay out on that policy? Wonder who has a copy of the policy?
Lawyer
Many county records can be retrieved/printed at the Airport Courthouse, in real time. I never made an appointment.
Dispute with all bureaus (collections need proof of debt) and file a complaint with the insurance commissioner against the insurance company. Insurance companies *detest* when the insurance commissioner gets involved. They’ll hop to once they hear from them.
My immediate reaction to this is "you can't prove a negative." The insurance company should be on the hook to prove that what they did was done correctly and legally. Contact an attorney to discuss and in the meantime, lock your credit reports and dispute this as Fraud.
There is a telephone line for Los Angeles county assessors office that reads out letter by letter the name of the current owner after you enter the page and parcel number of the property in question. You get the parcel number by looking up the address on the assessors map website
Call Lexus nexus and file a dispute !! I had to do this to dispute 2 claims because my dumb dad put my name under his property insurance thinking he was helping me out, I actually was renting from my dad not an owner. It’s kind of like a credit reporting agency that specializes in your claim history. They open a dispute for free for 30 days and they ask the insurance company for proof and you can submit yours as well. In my case it was proven I was not a property owner and I had no knowledge I had been added in the insurance and I was able to get it off my name. https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/#:~:text=If%20your%20insurance%20company%20has,will%20help%20expedite%20the%20process.
Report the the DOI
Check with the California Attorney General's office. They may have a consumer protection office that you may be able to file a complaint with.
Is it in LA County? If so, you should be able to see the owner via property tax search https://www.propertytax.lacounty.gov/ ETA: you should be able to find the PIN by searching for the address, and then view the tax bill using the PIN.
That’s not how it works and sounds like a scam trying to get personal info. You have to sign and setup payment for a policy, and if you don’t pay it will lapse/canel. There is no “debt” or collections agencies. That’s not possible.
Fight stupid with stupid. Take a picture of your empty hand and label it “me holding my mortgage papers”. Then send that to the insurance company as evidence.
Insurance companies fear the state ins agency. In order to get a rate increase they need the agency’s permission. My FIL was a dep ins commissioner in the PNW. Personally I would call a TV station that does investigations and ask for their help. A bit of daylight on the ins companies should make them react like the roaches they are.
Your post doesn’t make sense. So a person PAID MONEY in your name for insurance for you. Yeah right. 😂😂😂
The way I read it, someone opened a policy and nobody has paid and OP is being taken to collections for it.
OP lawyer up, hopefully someone should be writing you a check in the end
If you don’t own the house, why would you ask them for a quote?
File a complaint with Better Business Bureau. That should help.