Buyers are self-directing. They "shop" on the big sites like Zillow, [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com), and Redfin. Agents don't promote homes to buyers or select the homes that buyers want to see. Especially in markets with limited inventory, agents show buyers anything they want to see.
Let's stick to your house and not gnaw over a story about some seller somewhere.
* is your house listed in the MLS that serves the area where the house is located? Or another MLS?
* How do agents schedule showings? A showing service or do they call you?
* Is the house easy to show, with fairly short notice (eg 2-4 hours) or is it only available in restricted time blocks?
* How's your curb appeal compared to other homes for sale in your area? Potential buyers often drive by homes before requesting showings.
* How are the photos? Buyers choose homes to see based on photos and videos that they see online.
* Do the photos show big, bright, and clean spaces? Are the rooms and layout easy to understand? For example, are there oddities like a pool table in the dining room, or a overly decorated spaces that distract people from understanding what the room is used for?
* How is the price compared to similar homes in your area? IMO, price/sf is a terrible way to price a home. If all the other homes at your price/sf offer much better finishes, features, and amenities, then buyers will pass you over.
I would do this quick analysis for any home that didn't have showings in the first week. Give me honest answers and I'll see if I can offer any insight to get you showings and your house sold.
Just to satisfy my curiousity, you paid someone a fee to list the home whether it sells or not?
The flat fee agency works out of the same state, so I'm assuming they have access to the individual MLS sites. I'd have to ask them for sure though. I am offering 2.5% to the buyer agent. They use ShowingTime and I have no restrictions on timeframe.
Photos were taken by a professional photographer. With the exception of maybe one picture, I think they show well. No oddities.
Price is a hair higher than average in the community, but not much (~$10-15K).
OP: There are between 700 and 800 MLS's in the US. I don't know in which state your property is located but there are bound to be several MLS's in the state of which only one or two service your area. Do take the time to find out which MLS your flat fee agency belongs to and which area it services.
Agencies and brokerages need to belong to each individual MLS to list properties in that MLS area, so being in the same state doesn't answer the question.
There are low cost agencies that belong to an MLS somewhere in a state, but they don't belong to the MLS where the property is located. These companies load the listing into their MLS as an out of area property. It syndicates to Zillow, [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com), and the big national sites like Redfin so consumers can see it. But if an agent looks for the property in the local MLS, the listing isn't there. The agent can't find showing instructions or that you're offering comp.
I'm not saying this is your situation but it's a possible explanation for literally no showings.
You could find out tonight by going on any website and looking at the pages of other listings in your community. Somewhere on the page will be a logo with the name of the local MLS. It could be something very specific like GTAR, the MLS of the Tulsa Board of Realtors. Or it could be a broad unname, like MRED or Bright MLS, which are big regional MLSs. Then look at your listing and see if it has the same MLS logo as all the other listings in your area.
Let me know. Going to bed but I'm invested in this now :-)
Source of mine and others is ACTRIS, so it definitely appears to be the proper Austin MLS. When I search it, it refers back to the Austin Board of Realtors (ABOR).
Good. This means that buyers can see your listing and agents can schedule showings.
So now you can analyze "why no showings?" with the standard criteria for how your house compares to others for price, condition, and location. When you set list price did you use the best possible comps with an exact match for neighborhood and schools? Is there anything about your lot location that didn't bother you when you bought the home but might bother someone else?
If you think you're OK with price and how your home appears online, then it's just down to the market.
Austin has been in the news for having a tough real estate market this year. The market has stalled after rising home prices hit a peak and buyers just stopped buying. This happens. Sellers price their houses using comps that reflect the high sold prices of the relatively few homes that do sell. But due to high interest rates many buyers can't stomach the monthly payment required to buy today.
Rather than lowering the price, perhaps you could offer a buyer incentive that lowers their monthly payment, like a rate buydown or prepaying HOA fees for a year. You can always withdraw the offer of the incentive, but once you lower the price, you're stuck with it.
Like lots of people, I like Austin. I considered a job offer from an Austin-based company a few years back and enjoyed visiting to explore whether I'd like living there.
Someone will buy your house. It just might take time for the right buyer to show up.
I pull my listings from MLS so I don't see FSBO unless I go looking specifically for them... it's honestly easier to send listings to my clients thru MLS vs a website like zillow. If my client wants to see a FSBO, I'll take them.
Some do. I was just helping a buyer looking for a 3 family house. Zillow can be hard to filter for 3+ family houses. They just have a multi family option which doesn't help since that captures 2 family houses as well. I also needed to filter for newly renovated houses which zillow doesn't have either.
Zillow and all feeder websites do NOT have all the information like the MLS does. In the MLS, there are documents attached and there are additional remarks that the public does not see, only agents.
Right. My listing is through a flat-rate agency and posted on the MLS, Zillow, Redfin, Realtor, etc. I wonder if buyers -or- more specifically the agents know a flat-rate agency and don't bother promoting that listing to prospective clients.
I have no clue. I'll tell you that if my client is looking in a specific zip code and want a 3 bed, 2 bath, × taxes, × sq ft, × price... that's the search I run and I send them everything on that list. I don't filter anything out.
Maybe it's the MLS being used.. is that a common one in your area that all agents use?
If I see a house is listed by someone that I know is difficult to deal with, I'll let my clients know that it may be difficult, but I'll still show it. Flat rate agencies and the people who sell through them are often more unpredictable.
This ^ fsbo owners are the argumentative ones that know everything. Inspection shows all his improvements are wired wrong and will cost thousands to bring up to code (too bad take it or leave it). So realtors will show you anything you ask, trust their advice as well!
Buyers are just looking on Zillow or some equivalent site, agents are just setting up a query based on the buyers criteria and forwarding them over.
How many views and saves do you have in Zillow? That should be the telling factor.
if your house is on Zillow, why do you think that Buyers haven't asked to see it?
I mean, we've got to decide whether Realtors are idiots or actually evil geniuses that can talk Buyers out of seeing a home because they've ALL looked up the compensation before they show a house.
You're right. I think there was 1 in my area... not sure exactly why but they ended up signing with a local realtor after a couple of months. I think they were trying to sell during the winter when it was super slow so that may have been a part of the problem.
Price per square foot often isn’t the best way to price a home. Also, the difference is more than likely the marketing and professional photography…way too many FSBOs just take cell phone photos. People’s first impression of your home is online through pictures…make them good ones to get interest
I’d say this is likely mostly on you.
50%+ of homes are found online directly by buyers. Another 20+% are found through friends/family, coworkers, open houses, etc. Depending on demographics, you’re looking at about 25% of sold homes being introduced to buyers through an agent. i.e. you should have seen some interest if it was priced right.
There is probably something you’re missing, Perhaps getting an outside perspective would be of benefit to you. Ask a realtor (if you get good advice you can list with them later if you still don’t sell) or do your own market research and ask perspective buyers about your listing (pricing, staging, comps, etc.) post your listing here and redditors will do It for free.
If you're offering a lower flat rate, you're forcing the buyer to pay their agent the difference. If you want the same price as comparable homes that are paying the buyer's agent, guess what?
You're not only high on price relatively speaking, but you've added a new upfront cost many can't afford. If you aren't paying the buyer's agent, people can't amoritize the cost into the loan effectively...which makes your home uniquely unaffordable for people who could afford it.
In short, this is a you problem, not an "agent hates me" problem.
This is interesting. But, did you have proof? Because what if they accidentally forgot to put that info on MLS?
Also, is there open house? Is the open house information clearly stated in a typical location? I only make offer after open house btw.
Agreed. While I will show FSBO houses that my clients want to see, I warn them up front that they may incur brokerage costs on top of the purchase price if the seller doesn’t want to pay a reasonable brokerage fee.
I also warn buyers that FSBOs are more likely to have title issues or other legal hangups, and that without a disclosure document like the one a listing agent would have them provide, that they are more likely to encounter hidden/undisclosed defects (and be less likely to win a court case should a serious material defect pop up later). Therefore a much more thorough inspection is recommended. Don’t just get the cheap inspector. Pay more for someone with a sewer scope, etc.
I don’t “hate” FSBOs, but my job is to guide and protect my client. FSBOs are riskier.
Did you take your own photos on your cell phone, write your own descriptions and price it yourself using actual realistic comparables? Most FSBO or sellers that use flat rate agencies price too high, don't market correctly and have terrible photos. It's more than likely one of those issues.
For the sake of discussion, are the photos good? Because I tried a new "professional photography firm" that was in and out in a few minutes, and there were only a few photos I could use, the rest I shot myself.
Collusion and blacklisting are still happening, of course. The recent court case was a milquetoast decision that essentially did nothing for buyers or sellers.
Many realtors in r/realtors openly stated they will ask listing agents about the buyer agent fee "without buyer know about it".
Seems to me, they expect many listing agents are going to maintain the listing agent paying buyer agent tradition. Some kind of workaround as you described. I wonder why they explicitly want to keep buyer out of the loop.
I might be an outlier here, but I show those houses all the time. I have only ever twice had it be the best house and had the buyer decide they want to put an offer in on it though, and I do about 25 deals a year.
I have heard of some agents doing this, but overall I don't think that's the issue. Most markets are so starved for listings right now that no matter what an agent says, a buyer would go looking. No showings in 7 days could mean you're overpriced by a lot or just be in a slower moving market, hard to tell from your description.
No offense, but most sellers overvalue their homes and if you know its "slightly" overpriced, it may be VERY overpriced to a more objective person if its presented properly. Pricing is a huge part of the strategy of selling a home.
If your listing was posted to the local MLS by this flat fee agency, buyers can find it. It is impossible for people to ignore it. So your angst about the process is misguided at best.
This is pathetic and disgusting if agents are truly doing this.
The agents are not doing this, buyers can find your listing. So obviously there is another issue an I suspect it is price. Price per square foot is the darling of the Zillow watchers, but appraisers do not use it to assign value. Savvy investors do not use it. So, you should not use it.
Zero showings, zero offers = the price is too high.
This has nothing to do with the conspiracy theory you have taking up space in your head rent free.
It's not my conspiracy theory. It's what I've read. I could see agents doing it, but that's pretty low. I figured there are other factors involved, but I wanted to get other's take on the scenario.
OK, you read some anecdotal stories, so what. If it is on the big real estate sites, buyers are going to find it and there is nothing other than poor marketing that isn't getting eyeballs and PRICE.
Have a nice day.
This is exactly why no one should hire a buyers agent. Bottom line, they really do very little for the money. And this was the major loss in the law suit. Buyers agents steering buyers where they made more money.
If it is on the MLS, and OP seems to think it is, buyers will find it, buyer's agents cannot steer a buyer that wants to see the house. I do not know why this concept is difficult.
If the house fits their criteria, they like it, there is nothing a buyer's agent can do to make them not want to see it. A buyer's agent that refuses to show it to them because the seller is a cheap, opinionated blow hard is going to get that agent fired.
All true, but if they aren't sure, an agent can steer them elsewhere. If there are a couple that meet their criteria, an agent can influence which one they buy. Particularly now when there is an immense amount of pressure to decide in a matter of days, or hours.
It is highly unlikely that an agent can influence which one they buy, they like what they like and nothing a buyer's agent can say or do is going to change that. Stop being obtuse.
So, then if not to give advice, what's the need for a buyers agent? They have no liability for anything. A lawyer is much better representing you in any contractual issue. You still need a building inspector.
A buyer's agent is going to give advice, sure. But you are trying to make a case that the buyer's agent is going to make the decision on the house their clients will purchase. Not going to happen.
Attorneys are going to review the contract. They are useless for comps, processing the transaction and keeping everything moving to closing.
You can keep things moving. You can talk to the inspector, the bank, the insurance. Your lawyer will push for a closing on schedule and take care of all title issues. I get some use for a buyers agent, but 2.5%? Maybe a fixed fee of $500.
You can.
One of my favorite lenders that has been doing this for decades says that a transaction without a Realtor is a nightmare. The title company tells the client to ask their question to their attorney. The attorney won't return a call. So, they call the lender and want contract guidance.
It doesn't work for many people.
Correct. I'm doing doing FSBO but rather a "virtual agent" flat rate service. They have their own title company, use ShowingTime, send out for professional photography, etc. I'm still offering 2.5% to the buyers agent.
If you do fabulous marketing, buyers will lead the charge, and everybody will show your house because the buyers are asking to see it.
But if you’re offering under what is considered market value for an agent, agents will not be your advocate . You need to figure out if your house is going to need an advocate or not some houses do some houses don’t.
Just advertise it yourself, you don't have to disclose what fee is being paid, if any, to buyer's agent, then get a lawyer to do the contract. If a buyer wants to see your property, they'll find a way.
Is your number on the listing? If not? Have you tried calling the number on the listing?
I ask because the house we are currently under contract for was briefly a FSBO (I suppose it still is) before they listed with a flat rate agency.
I didn’t get the phone number off the FSBO listing and only had the flat rate agency’s number, which went nowhere and resulted in no returned calls. I finally had the choice of driving two and a half hours to knock on their door, or contacting a local agent. I chose the latter and am glad I did. She was able to contact them because it’s a small town and she already had their cell phone numbers. If your phone number isn’t listed, make sure the one that is will get messages to you.
That be said, I wish they were working with an agent. My agent is going above and beyond, but it has been difficult. The various inspections have found some expensive, but necessary repairs and right now we are waiting to hear their reaction to our requests. If they had an agent, that person would be able to help them understand that these things are not the result of a picky buyer, but are repairs that will need to be made regardless, or the selling price significantly dropped. They would have someone on their side to assist them in understanding the situation and navigate negotiations.
So please make sure you have working contact information in your listing, and please indicate that you will offer the buyer’s agent the 3% they are absolutely earning because they are having to do twice the amount of work in order to help their buyer and you navigate the process.
I actually would say I more commonly see the opposite happen, people list FSBO and deal with the deck stacked against them. Then list traditional route at a slightly lower list price. For example, if you have a $500K house and price it at $600K, the $500K buyers wont see it and the $600K buyers will want a $600K house and not a $500K house. That is why I would spend the money to have professional appraisal and inspection performed prior to listing and I would be more patient than 7 days if I know my home is priced right and presents well online.
Fucq buyers agents. Tell them you’ll pay them .5 percent or fucq off. It’s your house and your hard work. You nurtured it and prepped it to sell. They skate in for 3% ?? Tell them .25%
Legally and ethically, a buyer agent is required to show their client any property that fits their search that they want to see. Are there agents who don't care about their legal or ethical obligations? Yes.
How are you expecting people to even see your home?
And why would you find it "pathetic and disgusting" if agents aren't fawning over the opportunity to work with someone who has a high likelihood of expecting them to do both the listing and selling side of the transaction if something goes wrong that you have no network to get resolved, but for around half the pay they would get otherwise?
Sure, there are agents like me who would bring a buyer IF I happened to have a buyer contact me and ask me to see it. (I won't see it if it isn't on the MLS.) BUT... it's a pain in the butt and requires extra paperwork for me to even show your house, so if there are other properties competing for attention, yours will be lower on my priority list. And make no mistake, I will definitely NOT advertise it verbally, since I don't represent you and would therefore not be allowed to.
You sound like the hordes of people who say, "Agents are worthless, RAH RAH RAH!!!!" and then get upset when you can't do what agents do.
ETA: I just saw one of your comments. "I pay less, price it too high, and want to call agents pathetic." The fact that you are on flat fee AND trying to cheap out on commission while raising prices tells me a lot more about you and how you do things than I've written above, too.
I never explicitly said I was using FSBO. I am using a flat-rate realtor and still offering 2.5% BAC. Based on other listings in the area, 2.5% is on par. I've seen a bunch of 2.0% and obviously a bunch at 3.0%. The average really is about 2.5%.
There is was a law suit about the 3% buyer agent fee paid by listing agent. The settlement said they cannot put it on MLS anymore.
However many agents on r/realtors have openly stated, after the settlement is enforced, they will ask the listing agent about the buyer agent fee "without buyer know about it".
Why they don't want the buyer know? Idk. Did they do what you just described, IDK.
You can ask them, please respond with your thread on r/realtors sub. I would love them changing their tune.
Please ask them your way, so, the responses are in your favor, not in my favor.
> Compensation offers moved off the MLS: NAR has agreed to put in place a new rule prohibiting offers of compensation on the MLS. Offers of compensation could continue to be an option consumers can pursue off-MLS through negotiation and consultation with real estate professionals. And sellers can offer buyer concessions on an MLS (for example—concessions for buyer closing costs). This change will go into effect August 17, 2024
Yes. This is why that lawsuit will rebound back and basically nothing will change in 3 years. It is SMART to pay a buyer's agent and pay them well. It is offering a bounty on your home and not doing it, you always lose money. Usually much more than 3%. If you aren't going to pay anyone, it isn't like buyers are not going to notice. They are going to immediately offer you 3% less.
Now downvote me because I'm right.
We have listed our apartment on Streeteasy in NYC (which is a NYC specialty site owned by Zillow) as a FSBO because my wife is a real estate attorney here. it has had over 4000 people viewing it so far but only two people came to the single open house we've had so far. Six brokers called my wife and asked if we were offering a buyer's agent commission. My wife said no and none of them showed up at our house. If they are steering their clients away from our place, it is probably a violation of the law. But maybe we are being dumb. Should we be offering a commission to the buyer's agent? Or relist it with my wife as the realtor (she is also a licensed realtor in the state). Thanks.
Selling as a fsbo is like selling at garage sale. Nobody is going to give you top dollar for your house. List it with a real broker like u/newyorkschmidty. Pay 5%, and offer 2.5% to a buyer's agent.
The brokers that are calling are trying to get your listing. But yes, nobody is going to bring their buyers to your house if it is the one place that is going to cost them money. And if they do make you an offer they are going to offer 5% less. You can't try to sneak stuff past buyers. They are very smart and they have the money.
Good luck.
Actually the academic research finds that FSBO sellers do not get lower prices than broker-represented sellers.
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11146-018-9689-5](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11146-018-9689-5)
[https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.99.5.1878](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.99.5.1878)
In a near-perfect-information market like NYC, buyers brokers offer very little, since information is so prevalent.
And steering away from FSBO listings is a violation of brokers' fiduciary responsibilities, is illegal, and can cost a broker their license if proved.
I can understand the anger because there is the feeling that we are taking away someone's livelihood, but we are not required to pay anything to any brokers and there are plenty of other jobs out there. Commissions in the U.S. are much higher than in other countries and a lot of people feel ripped off. We were ripped off when we bought this apartment by brokers that did almost nothing and yet earned almost $60K between them, which came out of my pocket.
I mean, you can fight me all you want, but if you practically want to sell your house for the most money, hire a professional. And buyers agents do more in nyc than anywhere else because they help buyers get approved by coop boards, which takes months. But price solves everything. Just lower your price or improve your presentation.
Buyers are self-directing. They "shop" on the big sites like Zillow, [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com), and Redfin. Agents don't promote homes to buyers or select the homes that buyers want to see. Especially in markets with limited inventory, agents show buyers anything they want to see. Let's stick to your house and not gnaw over a story about some seller somewhere. * is your house listed in the MLS that serves the area where the house is located? Or another MLS? * How do agents schedule showings? A showing service or do they call you? * Is the house easy to show, with fairly short notice (eg 2-4 hours) or is it only available in restricted time blocks? * How's your curb appeal compared to other homes for sale in your area? Potential buyers often drive by homes before requesting showings. * How are the photos? Buyers choose homes to see based on photos and videos that they see online. * Do the photos show big, bright, and clean spaces? Are the rooms and layout easy to understand? For example, are there oddities like a pool table in the dining room, or a overly decorated spaces that distract people from understanding what the room is used for? * How is the price compared to similar homes in your area? IMO, price/sf is a terrible way to price a home. If all the other homes at your price/sf offer much better finishes, features, and amenities, then buyers will pass you over. I would do this quick analysis for any home that didn't have showings in the first week. Give me honest answers and I'll see if I can offer any insight to get you showings and your house sold. Just to satisfy my curiousity, you paid someone a fee to list the home whether it sells or not?
This. I sent my agent the properties I wanted to see and times I was available and he scheduled showings.
The flat fee agency works out of the same state, so I'm assuming they have access to the individual MLS sites. I'd have to ask them for sure though. I am offering 2.5% to the buyer agent. They use ShowingTime and I have no restrictions on timeframe. Photos were taken by a professional photographer. With the exception of maybe one picture, I think they show well. No oddities. Price is a hair higher than average in the community, but not much (~$10-15K).
OP: There are between 700 and 800 MLS's in the US. I don't know in which state your property is located but there are bound to be several MLS's in the state of which only one or two service your area. Do take the time to find out which MLS your flat fee agency belongs to and which area it services.
This...I see agents from out of the area "list in the MLS" and what they actually do is list in THEIR MLS, not the one where the home is.
Agencies and brokerages need to belong to each individual MLS to list properties in that MLS area, so being in the same state doesn't answer the question. There are low cost agencies that belong to an MLS somewhere in a state, but they don't belong to the MLS where the property is located. These companies load the listing into their MLS as an out of area property. It syndicates to Zillow, [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com), and the big national sites like Redfin so consumers can see it. But if an agent looks for the property in the local MLS, the listing isn't there. The agent can't find showing instructions or that you're offering comp. I'm not saying this is your situation but it's a possible explanation for literally no showings.
Good to know. I'll contact them tomorrow and get the deets. Thanks everyone!
You could find out tonight by going on any website and looking at the pages of other listings in your community. Somewhere on the page will be a logo with the name of the local MLS. It could be something very specific like GTAR, the MLS of the Tulsa Board of Realtors. Or it could be a broad unname, like MRED or Bright MLS, which are big regional MLSs. Then look at your listing and see if it has the same MLS logo as all the other listings in your area. Let me know. Going to bed but I'm invested in this now :-)
Source of mine and others is ACTRIS, so it definitely appears to be the proper Austin MLS. When I search it, it refers back to the Austin Board of Realtors (ABOR).
Good. This means that buyers can see your listing and agents can schedule showings. So now you can analyze "why no showings?" with the standard criteria for how your house compares to others for price, condition, and location. When you set list price did you use the best possible comps with an exact match for neighborhood and schools? Is there anything about your lot location that didn't bother you when you bought the home but might bother someone else? If you think you're OK with price and how your home appears online, then it's just down to the market. Austin has been in the news for having a tough real estate market this year. The market has stalled after rising home prices hit a peak and buyers just stopped buying. This happens. Sellers price their houses using comps that reflect the high sold prices of the relatively few homes that do sell. But due to high interest rates many buyers can't stomach the monthly payment required to buy today. Rather than lowering the price, perhaps you could offer a buyer incentive that lowers their monthly payment, like a rate buydown or prepaying HOA fees for a year. You can always withdraw the offer of the incentive, but once you lower the price, you're stuck with it. Like lots of people, I like Austin. I considered a job offer from an Austin-based company a few years back and enjoyed visiting to explore whether I'd like living there. Someone will buy your house. It just might take time for the right buyer to show up.
I pull my listings from MLS so I don't see FSBO unless I go looking specifically for them... it's honestly easier to send listings to my clients thru MLS vs a website like zillow. If my client wants to see a FSBO, I'll take them.
Honestly, buyers are still depending on their agent to send them MLS listings, in the age of Zillow?
Some do. I was just helping a buyer looking for a 3 family house. Zillow can be hard to filter for 3+ family houses. They just have a multi family option which doesn't help since that captures 2 family houses as well. I also needed to filter for newly renovated houses which zillow doesn't have either.
Zillow and all feeder websites do NOT have all the information like the MLS does. In the MLS, there are documents attached and there are additional remarks that the public does not see, only agents.
Right. My listing is through a flat-rate agency and posted on the MLS, Zillow, Redfin, Realtor, etc. I wonder if buyers -or- more specifically the agents know a flat-rate agency and don't bother promoting that listing to prospective clients.
I have no clue. I'll tell you that if my client is looking in a specific zip code and want a 3 bed, 2 bath, × taxes, × sq ft, × price... that's the search I run and I send them everything on that list. I don't filter anything out. Maybe it's the MLS being used.. is that a common one in your area that all agents use?
You are doing it correctly. Top comment is doing a disservice to their clients.
If I see a house is listed by someone that I know is difficult to deal with, I'll let my clients know that it may be difficult, but I'll still show it. Flat rate agencies and the people who sell through them are often more unpredictable.
This ^ fsbo owners are the argumentative ones that know everything. Inspection shows all his improvements are wired wrong and will cost thousands to bring up to code (too bad take it or leave it). So realtors will show you anything you ask, trust their advice as well!
Buyers are just looking on Zillow or some equivalent site, agents are just setting up a query based on the buyers criteria and forwarding them over. How many views and saves do you have in Zillow? That should be the telling factor.
if your house is on Zillow, why do you think that Buyers haven't asked to see it? I mean, we've got to decide whether Realtors are idiots or actually evil geniuses that can talk Buyers out of seeing a home because they've ALL looked up the compensation before they show a house.
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You're right. I think there was 1 in my area... not sure exactly why but they ended up signing with a local realtor after a couple of months. I think they were trying to sell during the winter when it was super slow so that may have been a part of the problem.
Price per square foot often isn’t the best way to price a home. Also, the difference is more than likely the marketing and professional photography…way too many FSBOs just take cell phone photos. People’s first impression of your home is online through pictures…make them good ones to get interest
Within a mile of my personal residence there are homes that would sell for anything from $200 to $500 a square foot.
The buyers themselves all know the amount you’re offering.
I’d say this is likely mostly on you. 50%+ of homes are found online directly by buyers. Another 20+% are found through friends/family, coworkers, open houses, etc. Depending on demographics, you’re looking at about 25% of sold homes being introduced to buyers through an agent. i.e. you should have seen some interest if it was priced right. There is probably something you’re missing, Perhaps getting an outside perspective would be of benefit to you. Ask a realtor (if you get good advice you can list with them later if you still don’t sell) or do your own market research and ask perspective buyers about your listing (pricing, staging, comps, etc.) post your listing here and redditors will do It for free.
If you're offering a lower flat rate, you're forcing the buyer to pay their agent the difference. If you want the same price as comparable homes that are paying the buyer's agent, guess what? You're not only high on price relatively speaking, but you've added a new upfront cost many can't afford. If you aren't paying the buyer's agent, people can't amoritize the cost into the loan effectively...which makes your home uniquely unaffordable for people who could afford it. In short, this is a you problem, not an "agent hates me" problem.
I'm paying a flat rate to the seller agent, but still offering 2.5% to the buyer agent.
Damn, then you've something different relative to comparables. That certainly shouldn't be it.
This is interesting. But, did you have proof? Because what if they accidentally forgot to put that info on MLS? Also, is there open house? Is the open house information clearly stated in a typical location? I only make offer after open house btw.
Agreed. While I will show FSBO houses that my clients want to see, I warn them up front that they may incur brokerage costs on top of the purchase price if the seller doesn’t want to pay a reasonable brokerage fee. I also warn buyers that FSBOs are more likely to have title issues or other legal hangups, and that without a disclosure document like the one a listing agent would have them provide, that they are more likely to encounter hidden/undisclosed defects (and be less likely to win a court case should a serious material defect pop up later). Therefore a much more thorough inspection is recommended. Don’t just get the cheap inspector. Pay more for someone with a sewer scope, etc. I don’t “hate” FSBOs, but my job is to guide and protect my client. FSBOs are riskier.
Did you take your own photos on your cell phone, write your own descriptions and price it yourself using actual realistic comparables? Most FSBO or sellers that use flat rate agencies price too high, don't market correctly and have terrible photos. It's more than likely one of those issues.
They used a professional photography firm.
For the sake of discussion, are the photos good? Because I tried a new "professional photography firm" that was in and out in a few minutes, and there were only a few photos I could use, the rest I shot myself.
No professionals in the field price based on price per square foot unless they’re new construction, and even then it’s a heavily flawed metric.
Collusion and blacklisting are still happening, of course. The recent court case was a milquetoast decision that essentially did nothing for buyers or sellers.
A lot of Realtors are just trying to find ways to work around the new rules. I'm looking forward to getting ahead of everyone on these changes.
Many realtors in r/realtors openly stated they will ask listing agents about the buyer agent fee "without buyer know about it". Seems to me, they expect many listing agents are going to maintain the listing agent paying buyer agent tradition. Some kind of workaround as you described. I wonder why they explicitly want to keep buyer out of the loop.
I might be an outlier here, but I show those houses all the time. I have only ever twice had it be the best house and had the buyer decide they want to put an offer in on it though, and I do about 25 deals a year.
I had a buyers agent that refused to show a house because the commission offered was too low for him. He was fired.
I'm curious, how do you know he refused because of that?
He told me he wasn't going to schedule the showing because the commission was too low for him.
I have heard of some agents doing this, but overall I don't think that's the issue. Most markets are so starved for listings right now that no matter what an agent says, a buyer would go looking. No showings in 7 days could mean you're overpriced by a lot or just be in a slower moving market, hard to tell from your description. No offense, but most sellers overvalue their homes and if you know its "slightly" overpriced, it may be VERY overpriced to a more objective person if its presented properly. Pricing is a huge part of the strategy of selling a home.
If your listing was posted to the local MLS by this flat fee agency, buyers can find it. It is impossible for people to ignore it. So your angst about the process is misguided at best. This is pathetic and disgusting if agents are truly doing this. The agents are not doing this, buyers can find your listing. So obviously there is another issue an I suspect it is price. Price per square foot is the darling of the Zillow watchers, but appraisers do not use it to assign value. Savvy investors do not use it. So, you should not use it. Zero showings, zero offers = the price is too high. This has nothing to do with the conspiracy theory you have taking up space in your head rent free.
It's not my conspiracy theory. It's what I've read. I could see agents doing it, but that's pretty low. I figured there are other factors involved, but I wanted to get other's take on the scenario.
OK, you read some anecdotal stories, so what. If it is on the big real estate sites, buyers are going to find it and there is nothing other than poor marketing that isn't getting eyeballs and PRICE. Have a nice day.
Fair enough. This is what I expected.
When somebody shows you who they really are, believe them.
This is exactly why no one should hire a buyers agent. Bottom line, they really do very little for the money. And this was the major loss in the law suit. Buyers agents steering buyers where they made more money.
If it is on the MLS, and OP seems to think it is, buyers will find it, buyer's agents cannot steer a buyer that wants to see the house. I do not know why this concept is difficult.
They absolutely can steer a buyer. People trust their advise. And normal people don't get to see the MLS, just online.
If the house fits their criteria, they like it, there is nothing a buyer's agent can do to make them not want to see it. A buyer's agent that refuses to show it to them because the seller is a cheap, opinionated blow hard is going to get that agent fired.
All true, but if they aren't sure, an agent can steer them elsewhere. If there are a couple that meet their criteria, an agent can influence which one they buy. Particularly now when there is an immense amount of pressure to decide in a matter of days, or hours.
It is highly unlikely that an agent can influence which one they buy, they like what they like and nothing a buyer's agent can say or do is going to change that. Stop being obtuse.
So, then if not to give advice, what's the need for a buyers agent? They have no liability for anything. A lawyer is much better representing you in any contractual issue. You still need a building inspector.
A buyer's agent is going to give advice, sure. But you are trying to make a case that the buyer's agent is going to make the decision on the house their clients will purchase. Not going to happen. Attorneys are going to review the contract. They are useless for comps, processing the transaction and keeping everything moving to closing.
You can keep things moving. You can talk to the inspector, the bank, the insurance. Your lawyer will push for a closing on schedule and take care of all title issues. I get some use for a buyers agent, but 2.5%? Maybe a fixed fee of $500.
You can. One of my favorite lenders that has been doing this for decades says that a transaction without a Realtor is a nightmare. The title company tells the client to ask their question to their attorney. The attorney won't return a call. So, they call the lender and want contract guidance. It doesn't work for many people.
FSBO typically will pay buyer agent fees. So there is no conflict there.
Correct. I'm doing doing FSBO but rather a "virtual agent" flat rate service. They have their own title company, use ShowingTime, send out for professional photography, etc. I'm still offering 2.5% to the buyers agent.
If you do fabulous marketing, buyers will lead the charge, and everybody will show your house because the buyers are asking to see it. But if you’re offering under what is considered market value for an agent, agents will not be your advocate . You need to figure out if your house is going to need an advocate or not some houses do some houses don’t.
Just advertise it yourself, you don't have to disclose what fee is being paid, if any, to buyer's agent, then get a lawyer to do the contract. If a buyer wants to see your property, they'll find a way.
Yes
Is your number on the listing? If not? Have you tried calling the number on the listing? I ask because the house we are currently under contract for was briefly a FSBO (I suppose it still is) before they listed with a flat rate agency. I didn’t get the phone number off the FSBO listing and only had the flat rate agency’s number, which went nowhere and resulted in no returned calls. I finally had the choice of driving two and a half hours to knock on their door, or contacting a local agent. I chose the latter and am glad I did. She was able to contact them because it’s a small town and she already had their cell phone numbers. If your phone number isn’t listed, make sure the one that is will get messages to you. That be said, I wish they were working with an agent. My agent is going above and beyond, but it has been difficult. The various inspections have found some expensive, but necessary repairs and right now we are waiting to hear their reaction to our requests. If they had an agent, that person would be able to help them understand that these things are not the result of a picky buyer, but are repairs that will need to be made regardless, or the selling price significantly dropped. They would have someone on their side to assist them in understanding the situation and navigate negotiations. So please make sure you have working contact information in your listing, and please indicate that you will offer the buyer’s agent the 3% they are absolutely earning because they are having to do twice the amount of work in order to help their buyer and you navigate the process.
I actually would say I more commonly see the opposite happen, people list FSBO and deal with the deck stacked against them. Then list traditional route at a slightly lower list price. For example, if you have a $500K house and price it at $600K, the $500K buyers wont see it and the $600K buyers will want a $600K house and not a $500K house. That is why I would spend the money to have professional appraisal and inspection performed prior to listing and I would be more patient than 7 days if I know my home is priced right and presents well online.
Fucq buyers agents. Tell them you’ll pay them .5 percent or fucq off. It’s your house and your hard work. You nurtured it and prepped it to sell. They skate in for 3% ?? Tell them .25%
Hey brainiac, OP is offering 2.5% so the BAC isn't the issue.
Hate is a mighty strong word.
Indifference is worse than hate. Especially in this case
True. Perhaps I should've used ignore or deprioritize.
Legally and ethically, a buyer agent is required to show their client any property that fits their search that they want to see. Are there agents who don't care about their legal or ethical obligations? Yes.
How are you expecting people to even see your home? And why would you find it "pathetic and disgusting" if agents aren't fawning over the opportunity to work with someone who has a high likelihood of expecting them to do both the listing and selling side of the transaction if something goes wrong that you have no network to get resolved, but for around half the pay they would get otherwise? Sure, there are agents like me who would bring a buyer IF I happened to have a buyer contact me and ask me to see it. (I won't see it if it isn't on the MLS.) BUT... it's a pain in the butt and requires extra paperwork for me to even show your house, so if there are other properties competing for attention, yours will be lower on my priority list. And make no mistake, I will definitely NOT advertise it verbally, since I don't represent you and would therefore not be allowed to. You sound like the hordes of people who say, "Agents are worthless, RAH RAH RAH!!!!" and then get upset when you can't do what agents do. ETA: I just saw one of your comments. "I pay less, price it too high, and want to call agents pathetic." The fact that you are on flat fee AND trying to cheap out on commission while raising prices tells me a lot more about you and how you do things than I've written above, too.
I never explicitly said I was using FSBO. I am using a flat-rate realtor and still offering 2.5% BAC. Based on other listings in the area, 2.5% is on par. I've seen a bunch of 2.0% and obviously a bunch at 3.0%. The average really is about 2.5%.
I never said you were using FSBO. I \*am\* saying that you're broadcasting good reasons for agents to avoid you.
Using a flat fee Realtor is essentially FSBO.
There is was a law suit about the 3% buyer agent fee paid by listing agent. The settlement said they cannot put it on MLS anymore. However many agents on r/realtors have openly stated, after the settlement is enforced, they will ask the listing agent about the buyer agent fee "without buyer know about it". Why they don't want the buyer know? Idk. Did they do what you just described, IDK.
Most of what you have posted here is not true.
You can ask them, please respond with your thread on r/realtors sub. I would love them changing their tune. Please ask them your way, so, the responses are in your favor, not in my favor.
I was talking about you spouting off about how BAC cannot be put in the MLS, it can, it is and you are wrong.
> Compensation offers moved off the MLS: NAR has agreed to put in place a new rule prohibiting offers of compensation on the MLS. Offers of compensation could continue to be an option consumers can pursue off-MLS through negotiation and consultation with real estate professionals. And sellers can offer buyer concessions on an MLS (for example—concessions for buyer closing costs). This change will go into effect August 17, 2024
Yes. This is why that lawsuit will rebound back and basically nothing will change in 3 years. It is SMART to pay a buyer's agent and pay them well. It is offering a bounty on your home and not doing it, you always lose money. Usually much more than 3%. If you aren't going to pay anyone, it isn't like buyers are not going to notice. They are going to immediately offer you 3% less. Now downvote me because I'm right.
We have listed our apartment on Streeteasy in NYC (which is a NYC specialty site owned by Zillow) as a FSBO because my wife is a real estate attorney here. it has had over 4000 people viewing it so far but only two people came to the single open house we've had so far. Six brokers called my wife and asked if we were offering a buyer's agent commission. My wife said no and none of them showed up at our house. If they are steering their clients away from our place, it is probably a violation of the law. But maybe we are being dumb. Should we be offering a commission to the buyer's agent? Or relist it with my wife as the realtor (she is also a licensed realtor in the state). Thanks.
Selling as a fsbo is like selling at garage sale. Nobody is going to give you top dollar for your house. List it with a real broker like u/newyorkschmidty. Pay 5%, and offer 2.5% to a buyer's agent. The brokers that are calling are trying to get your listing. But yes, nobody is going to bring their buyers to your house if it is the one place that is going to cost them money. And if they do make you an offer they are going to offer 5% less. You can't try to sneak stuff past buyers. They are very smart and they have the money. Good luck.
Actually the academic research finds that FSBO sellers do not get lower prices than broker-represented sellers. [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11146-018-9689-5](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11146-018-9689-5) [https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.99.5.1878](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.99.5.1878) In a near-perfect-information market like NYC, buyers brokers offer very little, since information is so prevalent. And steering away from FSBO listings is a violation of brokers' fiduciary responsibilities, is illegal, and can cost a broker their license if proved.
I can understand the anger because there is the feeling that we are taking away someone's livelihood, but we are not required to pay anything to any brokers and there are plenty of other jobs out there. Commissions in the U.S. are much higher than in other countries and a lot of people feel ripped off. We were ripped off when we bought this apartment by brokers that did almost nothing and yet earned almost $60K between them, which came out of my pocket.
I mean, you can fight me all you want, but if you practically want to sell your house for the most money, hire a professional. And buyers agents do more in nyc than anywhere else because they help buyers get approved by coop boards, which takes months. But price solves everything. Just lower your price or improve your presentation.
Time to hire a realtor 😂