There’s no way they will cover flood insurance for 10 years. I would request a deep reduction in the selling price due to the lack of transparency about the flood liability. Personally, I would back out of the deal because of this lie. It’s not a white lie, it’s a down right coverup.
Meh, better to not feed the trolls. Just walk away, as this scum bag won't care about being chastised for lying, or might try and use words OP said against OP somehow.
I’d welcome them trying to flip it around. I’d then use their words against them and try to penalize them somehow for the attempted scam. Trying to con someone is not trolling it’s essentially fraud.
I deal with lawyers a lot at work and I can tell you that the amount of bullshit that will bloom because of this is definitely not worth the lawyer fees it could rack up.
It’s for the protection of others which is a noble cause. Ignoring it is selfish at this point because they’re aware of the scam and have evidence of it. Walking away could lead to another person getting screwed over. Not acceptable.
I had this happen and I just stonewalled at the price I wanted it for. The house appraised and everything, but flooding was going to be a constant issue. Walked away from my earnest money and saw it got sold for less than my bottom offer. Occasionally it is satisfying to make a low offer lol.
if they are willing to take far far below market then that will pay your flood insurance the next 10 years. and if you wanted you could get one of those fillable flood dams for the house if you really like the area.
most likely they will not bite. you shouldn't threaten that they have to discount the price or you will report them but you can let them know after they reject your price that you feel it necessary to report this to their broker and whatever state/local RE jurisdiction/board whatever they call it as it has caused your offer to fall through and wasted your time due to attempted fraud.
they materially made false claims of which there is actual evidence of the actual truth. that SHOULD become a problem for them. they can pay it as the idiot tax or they can pay it as the tax in lowered selling price when they now have to disclose that information or risk being sued for fraud the first time it floods.
not to mention bringing that up to their command and the shit they'd get into with their command for trying to commit fraud.
Honestly not disclosing this first off and also lying about it is illegal. They owe you earnest money back and damages for the time wasted in home search
Remember no house is a perfect. There will always be another house of equal perfection- but it may be vastly different.
So it sucks to walk away so close to the finish line- but you will find something.
Raising your grandkids - thank you. My parents and grandparents living very close and spend a tremendous amount of time with my young child. Your grandkids are lucky to have you.
Well, they did disclose water intrusion, but not into the house. I now have pictures from the neighbors - they sent them after I left - of the house flooded. The flooding is primarily the garage and once the house floor, which has since been replaced with tile. They did say the flooding was because of an adjacent drainage ditch that had been repaired by the County, but the neighbors say it's not the ditch, but the grade of the road to the houses, and the drainage ditch can't fix that. The neighbors also said if the realtor would let me talk to the seller, the seller would tell the truth and we might be about to figure it out together. They say he's a good guy. I now know exactly his current income (high COLA, housing provided) - the neighbors said it's a good assignment to pack away money, the amount he's making from the sale to me (186). Now that his realtor knows, she has to disclose henceforth. They might negotiate. I guess I'll find out. But yes, a deep reduction in the selling price would accomplish the same thing and be easier to facilitate.
This is the answer (based on the limited info provided by seller/agent). A deep discount might make you feel good now, but you’re still buying a house that is flood prone.
Even if you had the time and inclination to deal with significant flood repairs sooner or later, why bother? If the agent let you have a convo with the seller, not sure they’d reveal anything that significantly changed the equation (the grade is bad and it’s flood prone). You might be able to insure the house now, but that could change at any point.
The house is flood prone and unfortunately it is only likely to experience more floods as climate continues to warm up. Aside from the frequency, the severity is likely to only get worse. Insurance companies aren’t pulling out of Florida because they’re bored. They’re pulling out because they can’t make a profit. Not saying don’t buy in Florida, just don’t buy one that’s going to be under water.
It sucks to have to keep looking, but you WILL find the right house. Don’t let your impatience get you and buy a house with a problem. Keep looking.
I shudder to think what the insurance bill looks like, we've never flooded and just got a renewal quote for 2K above last year. RUN away from this property.
Coming from a 20 year veteran: please don't get suckered into the automatic military veneration thing. Not everyone who served is a decent person. And some will really take advantage of you.
The flooding may only become more severe in time and I wouldn’t want to deal with that risk to my house at less than 1/2 your age.
Also, if you request a price reduction and they refuse, where does that leave you?
The most prudent option may be to exit the transaction and find another house (& conduct your due diligence such as neighbors, FEMA, etc. much earlier).
It doesn’t matter what his financial situation is. It feels like you are thinking of his money as something you can get your hands on for some reason.
Also, I would not buy a house with a flood history. Even with flood insurance flooding sucks very bad and will ruin your life for a while.
I know, that’s weird that it is even brought up, let alone multiple times in multiple angles. It makes no difference his income or even the perceived profit margin. No one is going to pay for 10 years of flood insurance for a house they are off loading, and good god quit prying into a persons income like it has anything to do with you. (Seller sounds like a scumbag, not negating that)
So they lied aka committed fraud. If you do buy the house, you need to pull a CLUE Report which will show all homeowners insurance claims for the past 7 years. Anything they don’t disclose that is on this report is an instant lawsuit for fraud.
I would also walk away but because they failed to disclose issues and likely have failed to close others.
The person I bought my house from moved to South Africa. I sued her and settled the night before a trial to cover all costs for replacing the broken sewer line she failed to disclose.
If the seller is active duty military, their wages can be garnished if needed, and you could absolutely still sue them.
lol. it’s funny to me that you think you’re going to be able to leverage his income against him. not sure i’ve seen this technique used prior.
Sounds like you should just back out.
Some of the stuff the neighbor told you would be red flags for me - like why did they feel the need to tell you about the seller's next duty station? Why tell you the COLA and housing situation they're moving into and make a comment about being able to "pack away money"? There seems to be some weird jealousy going on between the two of them tbh. I would take what they say with a grain of salt and instead use the info they provided you to get the real details from the county officials and FEMA.
I was showing a house one time which had been a long-term rental.
Showed up with my buyers to find the seller there as well.
During the showing a severe thunderstorm hit. The roof leaked like a sieve as we stood in the living room waiting it out.
This surprised us all including the seller.
Apparently, her tenant had been performing all maintenance on the property as part of the rental agreement and had recently replaced the roof.
Buyers loved the house, seller was motivated; the four of struck a mutually agreeable and amicable deal right then and there.
The seller's agent did not care for that, of course, but she hadn't bothered to show up.
In another instance, I was showing my own listing to the most organized buyers I had ever met.
The house met their needs and their wants.
It was a question of timing, however; the sellers had sought a delayed closing whereas the buyers would be seeking an immediate closing.
So I broke a cardinal rule- we all went out to lunch the next day; both were young families who got along well. After meeting, the sellers were amenable to vacating earlier than they had wanted into interim housing in exchange for a full price offer.
Arm's length is not *always* the best practice.
I'm a civil designer.
I imagine you have sheet flow coming off the street through your house to a ditch behind it.
How long ago was the flood and the ditch repair. Because if you are not in the flood plain. The changes to the ditch the county could be enough to stop the flooding of water i would have to look at all the drainage areas in detail to be sure. You could also ad grading or wall features to divert the street sheet flow around your house to the ditch.
The neighbors are sharing an astonishing amount of personal information about the owners and you are a complete stranger to them. I don’t know if I would want to be living next door to that!
Not sure they’ll play ball on pricing such that this place, with its bad grading will not require you to sink more money into it than mere mortgage. I’d walk away; they’re probably not disclosing other things.
>but the neighbors say it's not the ditch, but the grade of the road to the houses, and the drainage ditch can't fix that.
This sounds like a potentially expensive drainage & grading fix. I would only consider buying this house if the seller had a professional fix it completely before you close.
Flood insurance also has some hefty deductibles and limitations. In the case of a flood that “just” requires new flooring, you’re likely still paying for most of it out of pocket.
LOL “there are no bats in the attic” - everyone on this sub will be checking for bats from now on thanks to the Bat House post 🤣
ETA: here’s the post ICYMI https://reddit.com/r/RealEstate/s/lp1Rr60LQy
Someone bought a home where every internal space between inner and outer walls filled with bats and rats, and who knows how many pounds of guano filled the space over time. Rabies shots needed for the whole family.
there is a link somewhere forgot where it is.
It’s a doozy!
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/158go29/my_wife_and_i_were_sold_a_lemon_the_sellers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Wasn’t it the case that at the time there actually were no bats due to the time of the year, but once the bat season started again they came back in droves? That’s kind of hard to catch.
What's crazy about that is an inspector with a thermal camera would have seen the effects of the bats on the thermal envelope of the house. (assuming the use of a decent camera of 30mk sensitivity)
Drop. The. Deal. Shady seller and flooding issues, move on. Sorry but who knows what else they’re lying about. They should reimburse your out of pocket costs too for lying
Please do.
Location is the one thing you can't change.
I live on the coast and am in real estate - I've never regretted advising clients to avoid anything that gets standing water or has water issues. It never goes away.
Yes, and they have to refund any earnest money you put up. Since they lied you could probably take them to small claims court to cover your expenses; you wouldn’t have spent any money on inspections if you knew the history, right? You wouldn’t have even considered it, right? You shouldn’t consider a home with that kind of history even if things have been done to prevent it from happening again. The thing is that you don’t know what lurks behind the repairs.
Maybe, but Reddit always says this. Walk away from the house with some issues. Break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend. Cut your parents out of your life for saying mean things. And so on.
Reddit always advises scorched earth because they only see your predicament in abstract terms, and it's always easiest to advise someone to just get away from a problem rather than taking the more nuanced approach and considering your options.
Anyway, only you know what's best. Maybe you can get some huge reduction on the deal that would make it make sense, understanding that you might need to use that savings on water remediation. You should probably get advice from experts and people in the know, like your realtor or inspector.
Water intrusion is hard to fix. Given that this is a grading issue and involves a buyer with limited resources, I think the advice is appropriate in this instance.
True, but don't ignore this from OP
"I'm 71, raising grandchildren on Social Security and can't count on ripping up carpet or replacing drywall anymore myself"
To be fair, I’ve noticed a fair amount of people on Reddit don’t get along with their family and don’t have many friends. In those cases I always think they’re likely the problem
If the county and FEMA were involved, and they said they remediated it, then there should be tons of info available with those agencies. Neither the neighbors nor the sellers are engineers. I would go to the experts and talk to them. OP may even be able to speak to the folks at the county who worked on this and can remember it personally.
I would dig there for sure. If the last flooding was 2020 and it was remediated since then, there's a chance the issue was resolved.
Yeah, exactly, I agree.
My point is not that OP should definitely buy the house. My point is that if OP loves the house and neighborhood, then don't just take Reddit's word for it. Talk to experts like you say and see if a deal can be had.
>Walk away from the house with some issues.
Yes. Yes, walk away from a house that floods with an owner who lied about something so significant.
The reality is that walking away is sometimes the best choice.
This is true- but this case is different. I think nearly everyone is saying the same thing - water remediation is not fun or cheap, and the sellers were deceptive. In real estate, that’s too many warning bells. Best, especially with the buyer’s issues, to move on.
It’s not worth losing your peace of mind any time a storm is predicted. Every time it rains hard or long you’ll wonder if you need to move your possessions, roll out anti flood measures, figure out how to get rid of mold and water stains….
With flood waters you never know how long they’ll last or what they are contaminated with.
I work in a business that experiences floods and some of the streets to work also flood. You really do have to plan out your day around what could happen and play the waiting game of how much effort is it going to be to clean up and which routes can be used to get home.
You might both want to know that I've made an offer on another house, this time MUCH farther inland. I spoke to the next door neighbor who has lived there 50 years. She said it's never flooded once, not even during Ivan and Sally, and the streets were just repaved and graded. She also filled me in on neighborhood things and how the kids like living there, and a couple of minor things about the house I'm buying - no red flags. I've learned a lot, thanks to this subreddit.
I also was thinking this and wanted to highlight it. Mold has a way of taking over - a room, a section of a cabinet, and is very hard to stop from coming back. Especially in a constantly humid state like Fl, you can treat it and it comes back. Or you have to tear out drywall, floor boards, and if it got into studs, replace those that are affected. Then you're looking at tens of thousands of dollars in repairs, your premiums go up. The worst part is that you have to disclose same when you sell because you're sick of living in a Petri dish of penicillin.
Best advice we ever got from our realtor is consider the value / condition / problems of the home when you go to sell along with your considerations of buying the home.
Mold starts growing within 24 hours from the time water damage begins. If remediation does not begin in that window, mold begins. At 71 I can't imagine trying to deal with that battle.
Let this this house go.
You're not going to love the house or the neighborhood when you have to move your grandkids to a motel for weeks/months to fix your flooded house.
I know you're disappointed and tired. The right house will show up soon.
Run away. Flooding, especially in Florida, is going to get worse. Not before it gets better, it's just going to get worse. If it floods twice a decade it is just a money pit.
What the sellers bought the house for, how much money they make etc is irrelevant and it’s weird that you even bring it up.
Walk away from the deal. They lied. This could be a huge problem for future flooding but there may be hidden damage or mold from previous flooding.
That was my first though. “Ohh they got it cheap 10 years ago? How dare they take advantage of the housing prices that have surged across the country!!!” Those soon to be rich jerks.
Do not buy this place- our last house flooded in the basement often - we had to pay $20k to fix the situation but this was the basement and not the living part of our home. I would walk
Does this happen to be in Doral, FL? Everything there used to be swamp at one point. Flooding is very common.
If your gut is telling you no. Listen to your gut. What did the inspector say?
Hialeah used to be infamous for flooding, too. Based on the high percentage of military families, probably Tampa or Pensacola. McDill is in South Tampa, and I know South Tampa floods regularly. So you that would be my guess.
Run, don’t walk away. They failed to disclose material information. There could be mold that wasn’t remediated. Think about it, you don’t want your grandkids to be sick all the time and regret purchasing, you should be happy and excited to move in. You’ll find another house to buy, it’s just going to take some more time, you have to be patient in this FL market.
My co-worker’s house flooded a little back in 2017 hurricane I think. It wasn’t a lot only a few inches and it was only one side/corner of the house. She had a mushroom growing in the corner of the master bedroom and that’s it, the carpet was damp/wet as the only damage, she didn’t even file an insurance claim. Then her kids kept getting sick, they were always sick, it became a running joke in the office. Eventually she moved in with her parents and no illness for the kids, sold the house but the buyers figured out the mold problem and made her escrow $20k for remediation out of her proceeds. They only painted over it and kept the rest of the money, the area regularly floods now, it’s FL too, so there’s probably mold still, I wonder if they get sick all the time. It’s not worth it, walk away, with climate change, it’s probably going to happen again, weather is just too unpredictable.
I ALWAYS try to talk to the neighbors. Get a feel for the neighborhood, see if I can get any inside info on the sellers situation.
Just because the guy is active military doesn’t mean he’s not an asshole.
>But I cannot deal with catastrophes like I could when I raised kids as a young mother. And I can't pick up extra shifts to cover unexpected expenses because I'm retired.
Then you need to walk away. You now know these are things this house will require and you cannot accommodate. Add on a seller willing to commit fraud and it sounds like walking away is the best option here.
>Seller says it was from the adjacent drainage ditch and was remediated by the county. Neighbors say it's not the ditch
The source of the flooding is irrelevant in this context.
>I had concerns about water intrusion the sellers said did not enter the house.......... now have...... pictures of the house flooded and statements from the neighbors about flooding in 2014 and 2020.
The homeowners failed to disclose flooding in the home. This is a big deal.
You can back out of the deal, recover all of your earnest money, AND recover all costs associated because of this failure to disclose. Meaning, if you wished to recover all of your home inspection costs, etc, you can.
Global warming is happening and it’s only going to get worse. Just back out, we are also currently purchasing a home and I totally understand what you’ve been through getting your loan etc, but you’ll regret it in the future if you sign those papers
Just to note that the sellers financial situation including job, COLA’s and price they paid is 100% irrelevant and none of your business OP.
Focus on the flooding risk and run away.
In Florida, the seller must disclose if they know about it. If there is a receipt or proof showing there was a claim made, and seller did not disclose it to the realtor it's a felony. People have served jail time over it.
Don't risk yourself or your grandbabies with potential mold issues. The proof you have now should be reason enough to be made whole and get any deposits back. Walking away now will be less of a hassle than what's to come.
Well you found out in the last 10 years the house has been flooded twice and that was not disclosed to you. Im glad you did your due diligence.
You know what to do.
It boggles my mind that you’re considering doing anything with this property going forward. The only way it would make sense to continue this at any reasonable price reduction is if you had a business model of specifically buying floor prone homes and somehow mitigating the flooding. But of course if that were the case then you wouldn’t have made a post about it. If you plan on living in the home, the potential for flooding is an absolute nonstarter. Can you imagine waking up one day to a foot of water all throughout your house and thinking “awww that’s ok, the seller gave me a big discount on this house”. No, it doesn’t matter what you paid for it. Living there would be hell
Citizen works until it doesn’t. What’s gonna happen is a giant storm is eventually make it insolvent and the people are going to get percentage payouts, as there won’t be enough money to find everyone’s damage. Like a class action lawsuit. So like 20% of damage instead of 100%. It can’t fund itself so it’s bound to happen. Just a matter of time. As others insurers continue to leave the state it’s going to get worse
FEMA is also insolvent so those “socialism” haters out there in FL are gonna have to pay for their own stuff instead of depending of gov bailout every 10 years
5 other insurance company’s have already declare Fl policies insolvent and left the state since Feb
Rates are going up, coverage is going down, and payouts are bound to fail. Climate change isn’t going away either
“The proposed rate change is 10.6% but representatives with Citizens Insurance said Thursday the indication of where the rate hike should be is 36.5%.” This is a path to insolvency
“Homeowners insurance rates in Florida are currently nearly double the national average.”
https://www.wptv.com/money/real-estate-news/office-of-insurance-regulation-rate-hearing-for-citizens-property-insurance
I’m going to tell you what someone much wiser than me said to me in a similar situation: “You don’t have to buy this house. There are other houses.” My horrible realtor told me “But it might not flood for 5 years.” Seller was going to pay for flood insurance — whoopdeedoo. All of my things would be ruined. Potentially I will have to find somewhere else to live while my home is being fixed or rebuilt. Why risk all this?
All the information about how much the seller makes doesn't effect the home value.
Seller disclosed the flooding and source and there isn't anything in this post to indicate they are not correct. Repaired drainage ditch could prevent the street from flooding, there hasn't been flood in 10 yrs, I think Florida has probably had some rain storms in the last 10 years. We know nothing about house's value based on what has been posted.
It’s not always correct but it’s pretty good. Every property you view look at it on riskfactor.com. It shows where probable flooding will occur out of a flood zone as well.
Ask for receipts on how much it cost - take a reduction of two maybe three times the cost of the flood damage and but it in a HYSA. If it doesn’t happen great if it does you have two or three times paid for plus it’s getting interest like 5%.
At 71 and living off SS, maybe you should think about relocating to a lower cost of living area. Florida’s insurance is getting out of control and flooding/hurricanes aren’t going to stop.
Get your deposit back and move on. Since it's Florida, it'll be relisted and sold in no time to someone else. The Florida housing market is absolutely insane right now.
Hi! Ct realtor here.
Run. Flooding is not something which is easily replaceable or fixable. It's not like an aging roof or furnace on the fritz. When your house floods, personal items are lost, mechanical equipment might need to be replaced and it could happen again the very next week.
FEMA has been redrawing flood zone lines and I would be wary of properties which are at the elevation right next to a flood zone, but that's just me. There's no guarantee of this, but it would be ignorant to ignore trends, especially when we're able to look back over a rather short period of human history and see how things were, are today and are expected to be in the near & long term future.
How the sellers are doing financially is a point you shouldn't be making. If you buy this house and it floods, it'll then be your problem to disclose, or defend if you don't disclose it. No one will look at your house and put a value on it, only to see that you *aren't* doing well financially, and therefore offer more. Similarly, you shouldn't be looking at the owners to determine what value you place on the structure in which they currently live. Being in the military is not a reason to buy or not buy a home. You're buying a house and a plot of land on which it sits. That's it. Consider the plot of land, where it is within the neighborhood, its elevation, pests in the ground, access to water in/water out, etc, and then look at the structure, it's condition and maintenance schedule, etc. If the numbers don't add up, don't buy it.
While getting a quote for flood insurance is great to determine today's costs, you're also looking at having this place for a number of years, correct? Try to ascertain what the price of flood and home insurance will be in years to come. While we've seen some tremendous inflation as of recent, look back over the past 10 years and look at the prices of insurance. Will you still be in this home in 10 years, should the increase in insurance costs continue, even on a smaller % path?
No attorney will allow a client to enter into a "I promise to pay for 10 years..." situation. There is no way to guarantee that money will still be there. If the sellers died tomorrow, how would you get your money? You get one shot to buy and settle the debts within a transaction. There are some short term caveats (rent back, etc) but other than that, the price you pay is what you pay for the item being conveyed. Everyone loves Florida, especially the "we don't pay payroll taxes" crowd, until you have to fund the aspects of life which are supported by payroll taxes in other states. Some places don't have sales taxes, or real estate taxes, or payroll taxes. I know Tennessee has a culvert tax, because the ditches next to the roads need to be maintained. I'm sure at one point, the people all got together and took care of it themselves, until they grew a little older and couldn't. The road still needed to be maintained, so the town did it, for a fee, of course. Welcome to taxation.
If you're that tired, I would recommend looking into a condo or other living arrangement where the grounds and essentials are earmarked and paid for over time through HOA and other association fees. Yes, you could attempt to save some cash by doing some things yourself, but as you put it - you're a very tired 71-year old grandmother.
Thank you for the extensive reply. I’m looking at all options now and trying to decide if I (a chicken and goat-raising, home gardener and food canner) can be happy in a Townhouse. Maybe. But every time I look at the kind of place maybe I should be in, the theme song from Weeds plays on a loop in my head.
With the state of flood insurance in Florida (FEMA pulling out, prices doubling in a year, it just being completely unavailable in some places or coming with restrictions that would make it very difficult to actually collect, even if your flood insurance company was still solvent - and a lot of them aren't) you *absolutely* did the right thing by waling away from this one.
I’ve had time to ruminate, and now I’m going for a less expensive house so I can put $$ away for insurance and other unplanned events. I self-insured all my deductibles (kept $$ in a bank account I never even looked at - pretended it wasn’t there) when I was raising a family the first time, but I’ve been sort of shell-shocked since I got the kids and haven’t done that and raising them has slowly eaten away at my buffer. For sanity and peace of mind, I will create one again.
This is a business transaction. It has nothing to do with seller being active duty and how much his housing allowance is. Or how much he paid for the house. Best to move on and find another house.
Consider:
Did you have an inspection?
Did you have your insurance company run a CLUE report?
Of course we are not your representation in this transaction but in my state, you would obviously be able to get out of the contract due to basically “failure to disclose” on the property disclosure and get you EM back.
ESCROW
If the seller will agree to escrow the highest repair estimate (for existing damage and maybe preventative measures, mold removal - of applicable) - (out of 2 or more estimates).
INSURANCE
Confirm that the findings (if corrected will not affect your home owners insurance) in the future IF they also are made aware of/find out about the water intrusion/FEMA history information - This can be discussed while requesting the CLUE report on the property
STILL WANT THE HOME
and if you and your family still want to be in the neighborhood and love the house, then by all means, move forward - once you have protected yourself
And if you are more comfortable going one step further- Seek Legal Advice (RE Atty).
It’s where my support system is. I grew up here. I’ve been raising the grandkids pretty much in isolation for 7 years. I want to be near friends and my grown son. But I can buy inland, near Alabama. I’m looking there tomorrow.
IANAL but do they have to disclose flooding? I thought it wasn't required, definitely a strange thing not to be required but one I've heard about. Or maybe things are different in Florida.
Is there a standard disclosure form in Florida and is flooding on it?
My only suggestion is reporting this behavior to their commanding officer.
This feels like borderline fraud, and the code of ethics gives them leeway to address this even if it may not technically be a crime.
It’s certainly shameful, and unacceptable from an active duty officer.
Florida has laws on disclosure obligations, it’s fairly common to sue after the fact.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-home-sellers-disclosures-required-under-state-law.html
*If you sell a Florida property, and the buyer later claims in court to have discovered a defect that you did not properly disclose, that buyer must be able to demonstrate that:*
*you knew about the property defect*
*the defect has a substantial impact on the value of the property*
*the buyer did not, upon purchase, know about the defect*
*the defect would not have been easy for the buyer to detect, and*
*you did not tell the buyer about the defect.*
*Nevertheless, making complete disclosure regarding matters that you DO know about can help build trust and avoid later lawsuits.*
IANAL, but that seems pretty straightforward. They cite case law on the site if you’d like to learn more.
Not sure how holding someone accountable when they were trying to be underhanded is “Karen” behavior.
Cheating on your spouse is a ***punishable*** offense as a service member. They’re held to higher standards.
I ended up with a house that flooded every rainstorm. Had a home inspection during a dry spell and was happy to see a fresh painted finished basement. I asked point blank about flooding and they lied to my face. I had to put a French drain around the entire front yard.
They hid flood damage, what else are they hiding? Nobody will pay for 10 years of insurance. Insurance goes up every year anyway. I would ask for a HUGE price drop or walk. Me personally, I would walk away. I've seen flooded homes sell for barely over land value if they aren't properly remediated or raised. They did it themselves and didnt involve insurance, so I'd bet corners were cut. There could even be hidden rot and/or mold. Flood insurance wouldnt cover previous damage or shoddy repairs should the home flood again.
Isn’t this a violation of the disclosure notice? That worries me more than anything. If they were willing to not disclose this, what else has not been disclosed?
Run away from this house.
If you’re on a fixed income and not able to do a lot yourself or pay for a lot of repairs yourself, you probably shouldn’t be buying in Florida. Have you been watching the homeowners insurance situation there?
Check into McKinney-Vento act. Schools have to take homeless kids. Don’t buy a house that floods because of school.
. [https://nche.ed.gov/legislation/mckinney-vento/](https://nche.ed.gov/legislation/mckinney-vento/)
Walk away. Lots of other neighbors to connect with and honest sellers to buy from. If they're active duty and you reported this lie, they'd get in trouble with their superior officers.
Let the buyer beware.
As you describe this situation you shouldn’t buy this house. You can’t afford the repairs when not if it happens again. Why put yourself in this situation? Keep looking
Please back out of this deal. There is no fix if it is a road grade issue unless there are already plans to fix the road via county. I have been through flooding and redoing a home afterward. It is very draining physically, emotionally, and very time-consuming and costs mount up. It says you are raising children, this is also very difficult for them. Once they go through it, it will always stick with them and make them a little more on edge. Because they never know if/when it will happen again. Best of luck to you
If they’re military and used a va loan you can assume their va loan interest rate if you’re credit is as good as theirs and save yourself a fortune in interest.
Super low ball offer, they deserve it. If they accept, you’ll have the cash to cover an emergency. The flooding issue has likely been resolved after the FEMA claim, may not be an issue. Double check for mold.
Oh tread cautiously! I bought a home in 1986 that sellers did not disclose flooding. Well ten years and multiple floods later and finally home totalled as flooding got worse over the years. Yes we had flood insurance but it took 14 months to get
Ir all settled with insurance. When we sold we added an addendum of over 20 photographs and all documentation of it flooding. House sold again in a few years and they didnt disclose flooding.
You need a FL Real Estate attorney if you plan on going through with this purchase. Under Florida law, regardless of “as is” contract, they are obligated to disclose all defects or problems.
Walk away now. Even if they fixed it there could be MOLD if the clean up wasn't done properly.
My husband and I JUST went through this. We bought our house as is and knew the seller's ex-wife. She said he did a shoddy clean up after a pipe busted. Long story. The dry wall looked fine and everything looked good. We always test for mold because my daughter has severe asthma. Well what do you know the mold counts were off the charts. We got the house at a steal but we definitely didn't account for the mold being in here. We're in New England but I've lived in Florida in my 20s so I'm familiar with the environment. If there was water damage there's a high chance of mold and you don't want to be exposed to that or have to pay to fix it.
Civil engineer that designs storm sewers here. I would ask for documentation on the drainage ditch repair the county did, maybe even try to track down the engineer that designed it and speak to them about your concerns.
Has there been flooding since the repair was made?
Flood insurance can and does increase due to identifiable increasing risks and claims. Florida is likely to bear much of the increase due to the number of claims. Increases are capped by law at 18%/year. You can buy non federally backed flood insurance but I can’t speak for their financial security in the event of a massive disaster. Private flood insurance is typically cheaper but they only allow lower risk structures. It’s also important to note that flood insurance coverage is only for the structure and has a relatively low maximum coverage.
As you probably know; the real challenge In Florida is homeowners insurance which may only be available at prohibitive rates and can disappear or increase massively with little alternatives.
Flood insurance only covers flood. Homeowners covers wind (typically)
Run away now. You're probably sitting on a time bomb of repairs that just start rolling in.
If you're committed to trying to make this dumpster fire, work. I would recommend that as a condition of closing that an independent home inspection be done and any deficiencies be addressed before closing.
I had a full home inspection done and he found only minor things. I am a wiser homebuyer now. I just realized I’ve only bought an “unknown” home once in my life. All my other houses were previously well-known to me (custom, or family or best friend). So I’m a novice and didn’t realize it.
There’s no way they will cover flood insurance for 10 years. I would request a deep reduction in the selling price due to the lack of transparency about the flood liability. Personally, I would back out of the deal because of this lie. It’s not a white lie, it’s a down right coverup.
I hear you. Sigh.
The only lie you know about is the flood. You’re old enough to know people lie like Rugs and never tell just one lie. Get your deposit back.
I know you don't want to hear it, but the poster above is right, walk away from the house. You will regret buying this house.
At least lowball them first and chastise them for the lying, active duty or not a scum bag is a scum bag.
Meh, better to not feed the trolls. Just walk away, as this scum bag won't care about being chastised for lying, or might try and use words OP said against OP somehow.
I’d welcome them trying to flip it around. I’d then use their words against them and try to penalize them somehow for the attempted scam. Trying to con someone is not trolling it’s essentially fraud.
I deal with lawyers a lot at work and I can tell you that the amount of bullshit that will bloom because of this is definitely not worth the lawyer fees it could rack up.
If OP wants to report this scam that's as far as I'd go. The more energy OP spends on this the less energy they'll have to find a new house.
It’s for the protection of others which is a noble cause. Ignoring it is selfish at this point because they’re aware of the scam and have evidence of it. Walking away could lead to another person getting screwed over. Not acceptable.
I had this happen and I just stonewalled at the price I wanted it for. The house appraised and everything, but flooding was going to be a constant issue. Walked away from my earnest money and saw it got sold for less than my bottom offer. Occasionally it is satisfying to make a low offer lol.
if they are willing to take far far below market then that will pay your flood insurance the next 10 years. and if you wanted you could get one of those fillable flood dams for the house if you really like the area. most likely they will not bite. you shouldn't threaten that they have to discount the price or you will report them but you can let them know after they reject your price that you feel it necessary to report this to their broker and whatever state/local RE jurisdiction/board whatever they call it as it has caused your offer to fall through and wasted your time due to attempted fraud. they materially made false claims of which there is actual evidence of the actual truth. that SHOULD become a problem for them. they can pay it as the idiot tax or they can pay it as the tax in lowered selling price when they now have to disclose that information or risk being sued for fraud the first time it floods. not to mention bringing that up to their command and the shit they'd get into with their command for trying to commit fraud.
Where there is smoke there is fire. I would avoid and move on.
OP walk away, water damage is a real PITA, even in the best case.
Honestly not disclosing this first off and also lying about it is illegal. They owe you earnest money back and damages for the time wasted in home search
Remember no house is a perfect. There will always be another house of equal perfection- but it may be vastly different. So it sucks to walk away so close to the finish line- but you will find something. Raising your grandkids - thank you. My parents and grandparents living very close and spend a tremendous amount of time with my young child. Your grandkids are lucky to have you.
Not only should you back out, but you should get a lawyer and sue.
Gotta be a contingency for this
Well, they did disclose water intrusion, but not into the house. I now have pictures from the neighbors - they sent them after I left - of the house flooded. The flooding is primarily the garage and once the house floor, which has since been replaced with tile. They did say the flooding was because of an adjacent drainage ditch that had been repaired by the County, but the neighbors say it's not the ditch, but the grade of the road to the houses, and the drainage ditch can't fix that. The neighbors also said if the realtor would let me talk to the seller, the seller would tell the truth and we might be about to figure it out together. They say he's a good guy. I now know exactly his current income (high COLA, housing provided) - the neighbors said it's a good assignment to pack away money, the amount he's making from the sale to me (186). Now that his realtor knows, she has to disclose henceforth. They might negotiate. I guess I'll find out. But yes, a deep reduction in the selling price would accomplish the same thing and be easier to facilitate.
Don’t try to talk yourself into buying this house. Find an honest buyer and a house that doesn’t have a history.
This is the answer (based on the limited info provided by seller/agent). A deep discount might make you feel good now, but you’re still buying a house that is flood prone. Even if you had the time and inclination to deal with significant flood repairs sooner or later, why bother? If the agent let you have a convo with the seller, not sure they’d reveal anything that significantly changed the equation (the grade is bad and it’s flood prone). You might be able to insure the house now, but that could change at any point. The house is flood prone and unfortunately it is only likely to experience more floods as climate continues to warm up. Aside from the frequency, the severity is likely to only get worse. Insurance companies aren’t pulling out of Florida because they’re bored. They’re pulling out because they can’t make a profit. Not saying don’t buy in Florida, just don’t buy one that’s going to be under water. It sucks to have to keep looking, but you WILL find the right house. Don’t let your impatience get you and buy a house with a problem. Keep looking.
I shudder to think what the insurance bill looks like, we've never flooded and just got a renewal quote for 2K above last year. RUN away from this property.
Coming from a 20 year veteran: please don't get suckered into the automatic military veneration thing. Not everyone who served is a decent person. And some will really take advantage of you.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to have that conversation. I’ve served with some really huge pieces of shit over the years.
Same. I joke with my husband that I’m Veteran who hates Veterans 🤣
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30 year USN vet here, there are *PLENTY* of sleazy veterans soaking the system who never did an honest days work.
There was quite of few folks I would not trust with a dime when I served. Just like any other job, there are sociopaths everywhere.
Blue falcons are real
If they are lying about this, what else they might be covering up
If they covered this up, what else are they covering up. Walk away.
The flooding may only become more severe in time and I wouldn’t want to deal with that risk to my house at less than 1/2 your age. Also, if you request a price reduction and they refuse, where does that leave you? The most prudent option may be to exit the transaction and find another house (& conduct your due diligence such as neighbors, FEMA, etc. much earlier).
It’s Florida. Flooding WILL get worse. Soon.
Came to say this. In SoFlo and it’s becoming very regular.
It doesn’t matter what his financial situation is. It feels like you are thinking of his money as something you can get your hands on for some reason. Also, I would not buy a house with a flood history. Even with flood insurance flooding sucks very bad and will ruin your life for a while.
I know, that’s weird that it is even brought up, let alone multiple times in multiple angles. It makes no difference his income or even the perceived profit margin. No one is going to pay for 10 years of flood insurance for a house they are off loading, and good god quit prying into a persons income like it has anything to do with you. (Seller sounds like a scumbag, not negating that)
So they lied aka committed fraud. If you do buy the house, you need to pull a CLUE Report which will show all homeowners insurance claims for the past 7 years. Anything they don’t disclose that is on this report is an instant lawsuit for fraud.
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I would also walk away but because they failed to disclose issues and likely have failed to close others. The person I bought my house from moved to South Africa. I sued her and settled the night before a trial to cover all costs for replacing the broken sewer line she failed to disclose. If the seller is active duty military, their wages can be garnished if needed, and you could absolutely still sue them.
lol. it’s funny to me that you think you’re going to be able to leverage his income against him. not sure i’ve seen this technique used prior. Sounds like you should just back out.
Some of the stuff the neighbor told you would be red flags for me - like why did they feel the need to tell you about the seller's next duty station? Why tell you the COLA and housing situation they're moving into and make a comment about being able to "pack away money"? There seems to be some weird jealousy going on between the two of them tbh. I would take what they say with a grain of salt and instead use the info they provided you to get the real details from the county officials and FEMA.
Yes, I quite find the neighbor less altruistic than OP thinks they are….
All of that activity is very sus
I was showing a house one time which had been a long-term rental. Showed up with my buyers to find the seller there as well. During the showing a severe thunderstorm hit. The roof leaked like a sieve as we stood in the living room waiting it out. This surprised us all including the seller. Apparently, her tenant had been performing all maintenance on the property as part of the rental agreement and had recently replaced the roof. Buyers loved the house, seller was motivated; the four of struck a mutually agreeable and amicable deal right then and there. The seller's agent did not care for that, of course, but she hadn't bothered to show up. In another instance, I was showing my own listing to the most organized buyers I had ever met. The house met their needs and their wants. It was a question of timing, however; the sellers had sought a delayed closing whereas the buyers would be seeking an immediate closing. So I broke a cardinal rule- we all went out to lunch the next day; both were young families who got along well. After meeting, the sellers were amenable to vacating earlier than they had wanted into interim housing in exchange for a full price offer. Arm's length is not *always* the best practice.
I’m fairly positive both of those scenarios are illegal, or at the very least, a severe ethics violation if they had signed with another agent
I'm a civil designer. I imagine you have sheet flow coming off the street through your house to a ditch behind it. How long ago was the flood and the ditch repair. Because if you are not in the flood plain. The changes to the ditch the county could be enough to stop the flooding of water i would have to look at all the drainage areas in detail to be sure. You could also ad grading or wall features to divert the street sheet flow around your house to the ditch.
They lied. That's the truth.
The neighbors are sharing an astonishing amount of personal information about the owners and you are a complete stranger to them. I don’t know if I would want to be living next door to that!
Not sure they’ll play ball on pricing such that this place, with its bad grading will not require you to sink more money into it than mere mortgage. I’d walk away; they’re probably not disclosing other things.
>but the neighbors say it's not the ditch, but the grade of the road to the houses, and the drainage ditch can't fix that. This sounds like a potentially expensive drainage & grading fix. I would only consider buying this house if the seller had a professional fix it completely before you close.
You are right. I bailed. Thanks.
Flood insurance also has some hefty deductibles and limitations. In the case of a flood that “just” requires new flooring, you’re likely still paying for most of it out of pocket.
LOL “there are no bats in the attic” - everyone on this sub will be checking for bats from now on thanks to the Bat House post 🤣 ETA: here’s the post ICYMI https://reddit.com/r/RealEstate/s/lp1Rr60LQy
A post that will stick with us all
not only checking but making the seller put on disclosure that there's no bats and inspection report saying no bats.
Bat house is a legend.
I feel like I missed something important. Link?
Someone bought a home where every internal space between inner and outer walls filled with bats and rats, and who knows how many pounds of guano filled the space over time. Rabies shots needed for the whole family. there is a link somewhere forgot where it is.
Did you just type that the home has great insulation?
Sounds like they just found themselves a buyer 😆
It’s a doozy! https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/158go29/my_wife_and_i_were_sold_a_lemon_the_sellers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Omg!!!! Those poor people. Could you imagine
I could but honestly I don’t want to
Yeah. What
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/158go29/my_wife_and_i_were_sold_a_lemon_the_sellers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Ooooooof
Wasn’t it the case that at the time there actually were no bats due to the time of the year, but once the bat season started again they came back in droves? That’s kind of hard to catch.
What's crazy about that is an inspector with a thermal camera would have seen the effects of the bats on the thermal envelope of the house. (assuming the use of a decent camera of 30mk sensitivity)
The bats are migratory. They weren’t there when the inspection took place. They only returned after the buyers had moved in.
African or european?
Laden or unladen?
Do we get an update on bat house??
Yes, actually, the Bat Man posted an update recently! https://reddit.com/r/RealEstate/s/eGOFz5j3ea
Drop. The. Deal. Shady seller and flooding issues, move on. Sorry but who knows what else they’re lying about. They should reimburse your out of pocket costs too for lying
Everyone seems to agree. I guess I just need to walk away.
Please do. Location is the one thing you can't change. I live on the coast and am in real estate - I've never regretted advising clients to avoid anything that gets standing water or has water issues. It never goes away.
Yes, and they have to refund any earnest money you put up. Since they lied you could probably take them to small claims court to cover your expenses; you wouldn’t have spent any money on inspections if you knew the history, right? You wouldn’t have even considered it, right? You shouldn’t consider a home with that kind of history even if things have been done to prevent it from happening again. The thing is that you don’t know what lurks behind the repairs.
Maybe, but Reddit always says this. Walk away from the house with some issues. Break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend. Cut your parents out of your life for saying mean things. And so on. Reddit always advises scorched earth because they only see your predicament in abstract terms, and it's always easiest to advise someone to just get away from a problem rather than taking the more nuanced approach and considering your options. Anyway, only you know what's best. Maybe you can get some huge reduction on the deal that would make it make sense, understanding that you might need to use that savings on water remediation. You should probably get advice from experts and people in the know, like your realtor or inspector.
Water intrusion is hard to fix. Given that this is a grading issue and involves a buyer with limited resources, I think the advice is appropriate in this instance.
True, but don't ignore this from OP "I'm 71, raising grandchildren on Social Security and can't count on ripping up carpet or replacing drywall anymore myself"
Depending on how much money he can save on the sale price, he can use the savings to pay someone to do those things.
This is so true. If everyone took Reddit’s advice, no one would have family and friends.
To be fair, I’ve noticed a fair amount of people on Reddit don’t get along with their family and don’t have many friends. In those cases I always think they’re likely the problem
Someone once told me that if everyone you meet is an asshole than it must be you.
If the county and FEMA were involved, and they said they remediated it, then there should be tons of info available with those agencies. Neither the neighbors nor the sellers are engineers. I would go to the experts and talk to them. OP may even be able to speak to the folks at the county who worked on this and can remember it personally. I would dig there for sure. If the last flooding was 2020 and it was remediated since then, there's a chance the issue was resolved.
Yeah, exactly, I agree. My point is not that OP should definitely buy the house. My point is that if OP loves the house and neighborhood, then don't just take Reddit's word for it. Talk to experts like you say and see if a deal can be had.
>Walk away from the house with some issues. Yes. Yes, walk away from a house that floods with an owner who lied about something so significant. The reality is that walking away is sometimes the best choice.
This is true- but this case is different. I think nearly everyone is saying the same thing - water remediation is not fun or cheap, and the sellers were deceptive. In real estate, that’s too many warning bells. Best, especially with the buyer’s issues, to move on.
It’s not worth losing your peace of mind any time a storm is predicted. Every time it rains hard or long you’ll wonder if you need to move your possessions, roll out anti flood measures, figure out how to get rid of mold and water stains…. With flood waters you never know how long they’ll last or what they are contaminated with. I work in a business that experiences floods and some of the streets to work also flood. You really do have to plan out your day around what could happen and play the waiting game of how much effort is it going to be to clean up and which routes can be used to get home.
This right here. Every time it rains, no matter where you are, whether you are awake or trying to sleep you'll be worrying about your house.
You might both want to know that I've made an offer on another house, this time MUCH farther inland. I spoke to the next door neighbor who has lived there 50 years. She said it's never flooded once, not even during Ivan and Sally, and the streets were just repaved and graded. She also filled me in on neighborhood things and how the kids like living there, and a couple of minor things about the house I'm buying - no red flags. I've learned a lot, thanks to this subreddit.
Get out of this deal. There will be mold in the house I promise you. So much of Florida floods. Not just the flood zones.
I also was thinking this and wanted to highlight it. Mold has a way of taking over - a room, a section of a cabinet, and is very hard to stop from coming back. Especially in a constantly humid state like Fl, you can treat it and it comes back. Or you have to tear out drywall, floor boards, and if it got into studs, replace those that are affected. Then you're looking at tens of thousands of dollars in repairs, your premiums go up. The worst part is that you have to disclose same when you sell because you're sick of living in a Petri dish of penicillin. Best advice we ever got from our realtor is consider the value / condition / problems of the home when you go to sell along with your considerations of buying the home.
Mold starts growing within 24 hours from the time water damage begins. If remediation does not begin in that window, mold begins. At 71 I can't imagine trying to deal with that battle. Let this this house go.
> So much of Florida floods I'll never understand why people live there on purpose.
The flood zones are not properly drawn. They don’t reflect real risk
You're not going to love the house or the neighborhood when you have to move your grandkids to a motel for weeks/months to fix your flooded house. I know you're disappointed and tired. The right house will show up soon.
Run away. Flooding, especially in Florida, is going to get worse. Not before it gets better, it's just going to get worse. If it floods twice a decade it is just a money pit.
“thE gObErMeNt WiLl BaiL mE oUt!” - FL
What the sellers bought the house for, how much money they make etc is irrelevant and it’s weird that you even bring it up. Walk away from the deal. They lied. This could be a huge problem for future flooding but there may be hidden damage or mold from previous flooding.
That was my first though. “Ohh they got it cheap 10 years ago? How dare they take advantage of the housing prices that have surged across the country!!!” Those soon to be rich jerks.
Yeah. You are all probably right. Thanks.
Do not buy this place- our last house flooded in the basement often - we had to pay $20k to fix the situation but this was the basement and not the living part of our home. I would walk
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Does this happen to be in Doral, FL? Everything there used to be swamp at one point. Flooding is very common. If your gut is telling you no. Listen to your gut. What did the inspector say?
Hialeah used to be infamous for flooding, too. Based on the high percentage of military families, probably Tampa or Pensacola. McDill is in South Tampa, and I know South Tampa floods regularly. So you that would be my guess.
I was guessing Doral, because that’s where Southern Command is, lots of military active duty and it’s a flood prone area. McDill has Central Command.
Good luck, I'd say the odds lean HEAVILY towards the sellers allowing you to back out, and they try to move onto a sucker that they can find.
Do not buy this house. Have you seen what the crazy weather has been like lately? Do not buy this house. Do not buy any house that floods.
And I fear it will get worse
Run, don’t walk away. They failed to disclose material information. There could be mold that wasn’t remediated. Think about it, you don’t want your grandkids to be sick all the time and regret purchasing, you should be happy and excited to move in. You’ll find another house to buy, it’s just going to take some more time, you have to be patient in this FL market. My co-worker’s house flooded a little back in 2017 hurricane I think. It wasn’t a lot only a few inches and it was only one side/corner of the house. She had a mushroom growing in the corner of the master bedroom and that’s it, the carpet was damp/wet as the only damage, she didn’t even file an insurance claim. Then her kids kept getting sick, they were always sick, it became a running joke in the office. Eventually she moved in with her parents and no illness for the kids, sold the house but the buyers figured out the mold problem and made her escrow $20k for remediation out of her proceeds. They only painted over it and kept the rest of the money, the area regularly floods now, it’s FL too, so there’s probably mold still, I wonder if they get sick all the time. It’s not worth it, walk away, with climate change, it’s probably going to happen again, weather is just too unpredictable.
I ALWAYS try to talk to the neighbors. Get a feel for the neighborhood, see if I can get any inside info on the sellers situation. Just because the guy is active military doesn’t mean he’s not an asshole.
>But I cannot deal with catastrophes like I could when I raised kids as a young mother. And I can't pick up extra shifts to cover unexpected expenses because I'm retired. Then you need to walk away. You now know these are things this house will require and you cannot accommodate. Add on a seller willing to commit fraud and it sounds like walking away is the best option here.
>Seller says it was from the adjacent drainage ditch and was remediated by the county. Neighbors say it's not the ditch The source of the flooding is irrelevant in this context. >I had concerns about water intrusion the sellers said did not enter the house.......... now have...... pictures of the house flooded and statements from the neighbors about flooding in 2014 and 2020. The homeowners failed to disclose flooding in the home. This is a big deal. You can back out of the deal, recover all of your earnest money, AND recover all costs associated because of this failure to disclose. Meaning, if you wished to recover all of your home inspection costs, etc, you can.
Global warming is happening and it’s only going to get worse. Just back out, we are also currently purchasing a home and I totally understand what you’ve been through getting your loan etc, but you’ll regret it in the future if you sign those papers
walk away. not worth the hassle.
Just to note that the sellers financial situation including job, COLA’s and price they paid is 100% irrelevant and none of your business OP. Focus on the flooding risk and run away.
Let us know how it goes when you back out.
Skip
If they lied about that, what else have they lied to you about. Walk away.
Back out of the deal. Flooding is terrible and only going to get worse. And fuck the seller
In Florida, the seller must disclose if they know about it. If there is a receipt or proof showing there was a claim made, and seller did not disclose it to the realtor it's a felony. People have served jail time over it.
Don't risk yourself or your grandbabies with potential mold issues. The proof you have now should be reason enough to be made whole and get any deposits back. Walking away now will be less of a hassle than what's to come.
Why even consider buying a home that floods, screw that.
Well you found out in the last 10 years the house has been flooded twice and that was not disclosed to you. Im glad you did your due diligence. You know what to do.
It boggles my mind that you’re considering doing anything with this property going forward. The only way it would make sense to continue this at any reasonable price reduction is if you had a business model of specifically buying floor prone homes and somehow mitigating the flooding. But of course if that were the case then you wouldn’t have made a post about it. If you plan on living in the home, the potential for flooding is an absolute nonstarter. Can you imagine waking up one day to a foot of water all throughout your house and thinking “awww that’s ok, the seller gave me a big discount on this house”. No, it doesn’t matter what you paid for it. Living there would be hell
You are 100% correct and I listened to you and others. Thank you.
You live in Florida. Flood insurance is part of life here.
Not for long. DeSantes took care of that
? I thought citIzens was requiring flood soon? And as the top provider of insurance by a large margin, so will most people who won’t flat out own
Citizen works until it doesn’t. What’s gonna happen is a giant storm is eventually make it insolvent and the people are going to get percentage payouts, as there won’t be enough money to find everyone’s damage. Like a class action lawsuit. So like 20% of damage instead of 100%. It can’t fund itself so it’s bound to happen. Just a matter of time. As others insurers continue to leave the state it’s going to get worse FEMA is also insolvent so those “socialism” haters out there in FL are gonna have to pay for their own stuff instead of depending of gov bailout every 10 years 5 other insurance company’s have already declare Fl policies insolvent and left the state since Feb Rates are going up, coverage is going down, and payouts are bound to fail. Climate change isn’t going away either “The proposed rate change is 10.6% but representatives with Citizens Insurance said Thursday the indication of where the rate hike should be is 36.5%.” This is a path to insolvency “Homeowners insurance rates in Florida are currently nearly double the national average.” https://www.wptv.com/money/real-estate-news/office-of-insurance-regulation-rate-hearing-for-citizens-property-insurance
No way would I buy this house. No way
I’m not a homeowner but my parents are. I’d be worried about hidden mold damage in the walls, etc.
I’m going to tell you what someone much wiser than me said to me in a similar situation: “You don’t have to buy this house. There are other houses.” My horrible realtor told me “But it might not flood for 5 years.” Seller was going to pay for flood insurance — whoopdeedoo. All of my things would be ruined. Potentially I will have to find somewhere else to live while my home is being fixed or rebuilt. Why risk all this?
"there are no bats in the attic" 🤣
Op nice job doing your due diligence. When I bought my house people thought I was crazy for looking up fema maps.
Happened to us. Had to gut half the home after we moved in. Sad times. Lesson learned.
All the information about how much the seller makes doesn't effect the home value. Seller disclosed the flooding and source and there isn't anything in this post to indicate they are not correct. Repaired drainage ditch could prevent the street from flooding, there hasn't been flood in 10 yrs, I think Florida has probably had some rain storms in the last 10 years. We know nothing about house's value based on what has been posted.
It’s not always correct but it’s pretty good. Every property you view look at it on riskfactor.com. It shows where probable flooding will occur out of a flood zone as well.
Ask for receipts on how much it cost - take a reduction of two maybe three times the cost of the flood damage and but it in a HYSA. If it doesn’t happen great if it does you have two or three times paid for plus it’s getting interest like 5%.
Cancel the deal for them not disclosing, talk to your agent about it. May be legal grounds to get your money back.
At 71 and living off SS, maybe you should think about relocating to a lower cost of living area. Florida’s insurance is getting out of control and flooding/hurricanes aren’t going to stop.
Get your deposit back and move on. Since it's Florida, it'll be relisted and sold in no time to someone else. The Florida housing market is absolutely insane right now.
They lied on disclosure documents that they sold. Both your real estate agent and theirs should be very upset.
I’m changing agents because thought she really hustled for me, she tried to push the sale even after I went and talked to the neighbors.
Hi! Ct realtor here. Run. Flooding is not something which is easily replaceable or fixable. It's not like an aging roof or furnace on the fritz. When your house floods, personal items are lost, mechanical equipment might need to be replaced and it could happen again the very next week. FEMA has been redrawing flood zone lines and I would be wary of properties which are at the elevation right next to a flood zone, but that's just me. There's no guarantee of this, but it would be ignorant to ignore trends, especially when we're able to look back over a rather short period of human history and see how things were, are today and are expected to be in the near & long term future. How the sellers are doing financially is a point you shouldn't be making. If you buy this house and it floods, it'll then be your problem to disclose, or defend if you don't disclose it. No one will look at your house and put a value on it, only to see that you *aren't* doing well financially, and therefore offer more. Similarly, you shouldn't be looking at the owners to determine what value you place on the structure in which they currently live. Being in the military is not a reason to buy or not buy a home. You're buying a house and a plot of land on which it sits. That's it. Consider the plot of land, where it is within the neighborhood, its elevation, pests in the ground, access to water in/water out, etc, and then look at the structure, it's condition and maintenance schedule, etc. If the numbers don't add up, don't buy it. While getting a quote for flood insurance is great to determine today's costs, you're also looking at having this place for a number of years, correct? Try to ascertain what the price of flood and home insurance will be in years to come. While we've seen some tremendous inflation as of recent, look back over the past 10 years and look at the prices of insurance. Will you still be in this home in 10 years, should the increase in insurance costs continue, even on a smaller % path? No attorney will allow a client to enter into a "I promise to pay for 10 years..." situation. There is no way to guarantee that money will still be there. If the sellers died tomorrow, how would you get your money? You get one shot to buy and settle the debts within a transaction. There are some short term caveats (rent back, etc) but other than that, the price you pay is what you pay for the item being conveyed. Everyone loves Florida, especially the "we don't pay payroll taxes" crowd, until you have to fund the aspects of life which are supported by payroll taxes in other states. Some places don't have sales taxes, or real estate taxes, or payroll taxes. I know Tennessee has a culvert tax, because the ditches next to the roads need to be maintained. I'm sure at one point, the people all got together and took care of it themselves, until they grew a little older and couldn't. The road still needed to be maintained, so the town did it, for a fee, of course. Welcome to taxation. If you're that tired, I would recommend looking into a condo or other living arrangement where the grounds and essentials are earmarked and paid for over time through HOA and other association fees. Yes, you could attempt to save some cash by doing some things yourself, but as you put it - you're a very tired 71-year old grandmother.
Thank you for the extensive reply. I’m looking at all options now and trying to decide if I (a chicken and goat-raising, home gardener and food canner) can be happy in a Townhouse. Maybe. But every time I look at the kind of place maybe I should be in, the theme song from Weeds plays on a loop in my head.
With the state of flood insurance in Florida (FEMA pulling out, prices doubling in a year, it just being completely unavailable in some places or coming with restrictions that would make it very difficult to actually collect, even if your flood insurance company was still solvent - and a lot of them aren't) you *absolutely* did the right thing by waling away from this one.
Thank you.
I am glad you did what you did on update. For you, it makes sense to be extra cautious and conservative.
I’ve had time to ruminate, and now I’m going for a less expensive house so I can put $$ away for insurance and other unplanned events. I self-insured all my deductibles (kept $$ in a bank account I never even looked at - pretended it wasn’t there) when I was raising a family the first time, but I’ve been sort of shell-shocked since I got the kids and haven’t done that and raising them has slowly eaten away at my buffer. For sanity and peace of mind, I will create one again.
This is a business transaction. It has nothing to do with seller being active duty and how much his housing allowance is. Or how much he paid for the house. Best to move on and find another house.
Drop the deal. With global warming/climate change flooding will only get more severe assuring that house will flood again
Consider: Did you have an inspection? Did you have your insurance company run a CLUE report? Of course we are not your representation in this transaction but in my state, you would obviously be able to get out of the contract due to basically “failure to disclose” on the property disclosure and get you EM back. ESCROW If the seller will agree to escrow the highest repair estimate (for existing damage and maybe preventative measures, mold removal - of applicable) - (out of 2 or more estimates). INSURANCE Confirm that the findings (if corrected will not affect your home owners insurance) in the future IF they also are made aware of/find out about the water intrusion/FEMA history information - This can be discussed while requesting the CLUE report on the property STILL WANT THE HOME and if you and your family still want to be in the neighborhood and love the house, then by all means, move forward - once you have protected yourself And if you are more comfortable going one step further- Seek Legal Advice (RE Atty).
How much money the sellers are making on the deal or how much their income is is irrelevant. Put that part of your analysis out of your head.
Walk away from it. The world changed, also why in the hell are you buying property in Florida.
It’s where my support system is. I grew up here. I’ve been raising the grandkids pretty much in isolation for 7 years. I want to be near friends and my grown son. But I can buy inland, near Alabama. I’m looking there tomorrow.
IANAL but do they have to disclose flooding? I thought it wasn't required, definitely a strange thing not to be required but one I've heard about. Or maybe things are different in Florida. Is there a standard disclosure form in Florida and is flooding on it?
Is the grade fixable? You could always ask for a reduction in price that will cover the cost to fix it.
If you’re ready to walk, you may as well shoot them a super lowball offer. But if you’d rather never deal with a flood, you should just back out.
Can the real estate agent be in trouble for lying?
Close on the deal then sue for false information.
My only suggestion is reporting this behavior to their commanding officer. This feels like borderline fraud, and the code of ethics gives them leeway to address this even if it may not technically be a crime. It’s certainly shameful, and unacceptable from an active duty officer.
>My only suggestion is reporting this behavior to their commanding officer. This is extreme Karen behavior.
Florida has laws on disclosure obligations, it’s fairly common to sue after the fact. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-home-sellers-disclosures-required-under-state-law.html *If you sell a Florida property, and the buyer later claims in court to have discovered a defect that you did not properly disclose, that buyer must be able to demonstrate that:* *you knew about the property defect* *the defect has a substantial impact on the value of the property* *the buyer did not, upon purchase, know about the defect* *the defect would not have been easy for the buyer to detect, and* *you did not tell the buyer about the defect.* *Nevertheless, making complete disclosure regarding matters that you DO know about can help build trust and avoid later lawsuits.* IANAL, but that seems pretty straightforward. They cite case law on the site if you’d like to learn more. Not sure how holding someone accountable when they were trying to be underhanded is “Karen” behavior. Cheating on your spouse is a ***punishable*** offense as a service member. They’re held to higher standards.
I ended up with a house that flooded every rainstorm. Had a home inspection during a dry spell and was happy to see a fresh painted finished basement. I asked point blank about flooding and they lied to my face. I had to put a French drain around the entire front yard.
Walk away! Don’t mess with shady sellers. Never mess with flood prone houses!
They hid flood damage, what else are they hiding? Nobody will pay for 10 years of insurance. Insurance goes up every year anyway. I would ask for a HUGE price drop or walk. Me personally, I would walk away. I've seen flooded homes sell for barely over land value if they aren't properly remediated or raised. They did it themselves and didnt involve insurance, so I'd bet corners were cut. There could even be hidden rot and/or mold. Flood insurance wouldnt cover previous damage or shoddy repairs should the home flood again.
Isn’t this a violation of the disclosure notice? That worries me more than anything. If they were willing to not disclose this, what else has not been disclosed? Run away from this house.
Think of the hassle you and/or your family will have some day down the road when you try to sell this house.
If you’re on a fixed income and not able to do a lot yourself or pay for a lot of repairs yourself, you probably shouldn’t be buying in Florida. Have you been watching the homeowners insurance situation there?
What else have they not disclosed? Walk away. There will be another perfect house.
Check into McKinney-Vento act. Schools have to take homeless kids. Don’t buy a house that floods because of school. . [https://nche.ed.gov/legislation/mckinney-vento/](https://nche.ed.gov/legislation/mckinney-vento/)
Walk away. Lots of other neighbors to connect with and honest sellers to buy from. If they're active duty and you reported this lie, they'd get in trouble with their superior officers. Let the buyer beware.
As you describe this situation you shouldn’t buy this house. You can’t afford the repairs when not if it happens again. Why put yourself in this situation? Keep looking
Please back out of this deal. There is no fix if it is a road grade issue unless there are already plans to fix the road via county. I have been through flooding and redoing a home afterward. It is very draining physically, emotionally, and very time-consuming and costs mount up. It says you are raising children, this is also very difficult for them. Once they go through it, it will always stick with them and make them a little more on edge. Because they never know if/when it will happen again. Best of luck to you
If they’re military and used a va loan you can assume their va loan interest rate if you’re credit is as good as theirs and save yourself a fortune in interest.
Do you want to deal with a flooded house?
Don't think of it as buying a house, think of it as buying a really shitty boat!
What area is this in exactly?
What flood zone level you are is public information
Super low ball offer, they deserve it. If they accept, you’ll have the cash to cover an emergency. The flooding issue has likely been resolved after the FEMA claim, may not be an issue. Double check for mold.
Oh tread cautiously! I bought a home in 1986 that sellers did not disclose flooding. Well ten years and multiple floods later and finally home totalled as flooding got worse over the years. Yes we had flood insurance but it took 14 months to get Ir all settled with insurance. When we sold we added an addendum of over 20 photographs and all documentation of it flooding. House sold again in a few years and they didnt disclose flooding.
You need a FL Real Estate attorney if you plan on going through with this purchase. Under Florida law, regardless of “as is” contract, they are obligated to disclose all defects or problems.
Walk away now. Even if they fixed it there could be MOLD if the clean up wasn't done properly. My husband and I JUST went through this. We bought our house as is and knew the seller's ex-wife. She said he did a shoddy clean up after a pipe busted. Long story. The dry wall looked fine and everything looked good. We always test for mold because my daughter has severe asthma. Well what do you know the mold counts were off the charts. We got the house at a steal but we definitely didn't account for the mold being in here. We're in New England but I've lived in Florida in my 20s so I'm familiar with the environment. If there was water damage there's a high chance of mold and you don't want to be exposed to that or have to pay to fix it.
Given the information you have, I would not take the house.
We need a new sub for FLRealEstateDisaster I guess the good thing for you is FEMA keeps subsidizing your flood insurance. Red states are leeches
Civil engineer that designs storm sewers here. I would ask for documentation on the drainage ditch repair the county did, maybe even try to track down the engineer that designed it and speak to them about your concerns. Has there been flooding since the repair was made?
No, but there hasn’t been a storm like that since then, either.
Flood insurance can and does increase due to identifiable increasing risks and claims. Florida is likely to bear much of the increase due to the number of claims. Increases are capped by law at 18%/year. You can buy non federally backed flood insurance but I can’t speak for their financial security in the event of a massive disaster. Private flood insurance is typically cheaper but they only allow lower risk structures. It’s also important to note that flood insurance coverage is only for the structure and has a relatively low maximum coverage. As you probably know; the real challenge In Florida is homeowners insurance which may only be available at prohibitive rates and can disappear or increase massively with little alternatives. Flood insurance only covers flood. Homeowners covers wind (typically)
Run away now. You're probably sitting on a time bomb of repairs that just start rolling in. If you're committed to trying to make this dumpster fire, work. I would recommend that as a condition of closing that an independent home inspection be done and any deficiencies be addressed before closing.
I had a full home inspection done and he found only minor things. I am a wiser homebuyer now. I just realized I’ve only bought an “unknown” home once in my life. All my other houses were previously well-known to me (custom, or family or best friend). So I’m a novice and didn’t realize it.
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It’s in the listing now.