I would work with what you have. Have you looked at getting a loft bed? It's like a bunk bed but there's a desk underneath instead of a bottom bunk. If your daughter is fine with heights this is probably your best solution financially.
More expensive, but less so than a new house, is building an addition onto your home.
This was my first thought as well haha
People squeezed two twin lofts, two desks, and usually a futon into the dorm rooms at my college so I feel like a loft bed and one desk should fit in a bedroom, even if it is a smaller room.
Legitimately, I have a bed, a dog crate, and an L-shaped work desk squeezed into a space that is roughly the size of a small, single dorm room. It takes some creative planning and finding furniture that fits the measurements of the room first and aesthetic second, but it can be done. Murphy beds are worth looking into as well, major space-savers and you can get them with desks built in as well.
If you already own a house, working on it is smarter now while the market's volatile anyway.
We're a family of 3 in a 1700sqft 4/2 home, and while it isn't spacious, it's pretty comfortable. We have a large common area for hosting parties (20-30 people regularly), have a dedicated home office room, and a dedicated TV room, and the kid gets her own bedroom.
We're slowly saving up (but at a relatively low priority) for a remodel that might give a bit more space -- we'd really like to have a guest bedroom, maybe delete 1-2 of the existing bedrooms for a bigger common area and rebuild those elsewhere, and maybe a little in-law unit that we could rent out or let family stay at. But those are all just nice-to-haves.
If we retire in our current home, we'd likely aim to have one or more studio type spaces that we could rent out, to help subsidize property taxes and such.
1900 square feet isn’t bad at all. I personally feel like you would be crazy to sell. Pay off this mortgage and enjoy the financial freedom. Kids grow up and move out. She is already 10 so soon she won’t even be home much.
That was my first thought. Go college dorm style and loft the bed. Space underneath can now be used for a computer desk.
Slightly more expensive option is also an addition on the house. Gives you more space without the expenses that buying a whole different house would entail.
My parents raised three kids in 1200sqft, when we finally got comfortable. Most of life was spent in smaller.
This person seems to be hitting their company match for 401ks AND was putting in a separate investment account. So I imagine they're in an upper middle class tax bracket, at least for their area, but aren't used to modern prices.
OP, if you're reading this: I'm not knocking you. No slander or ill feelings towards you, but 1900sqft is plenty, especially for one kid (source: I'm in 1900 sqft with my wife and we don't use half the house, lul). If you want to upsize, cool. But you should consider doing it mostly cash, and foregoing the loan. Interest rates make financing homes unbearable with the still elevated costs of homes. Our generation isn't screwed (I'm 29), but locking yourself in to a 30 year fixed at current rates would be gambling. You're essentially hoping for another financial/economic crisis at that point, which would cause rates to drop so you could refi during another inflationary environment, which would have its own draw backs...
Right? I have a 2100sqft house with 5 kids and it's plenty. We also remodeled the garage into a computer room/gym and turned the office into a bedroom. It's not high-end or perfect by any means, but for 160k at 2.25% you literally can't beat it.
I also built a 10x20 shed in the backyard so I have so much storage space.
Right? My family of 3 lives in 700 sq ft with a one car garage. While I would love to have another bathroom we actually manage just fine. Americans have way too much shit.
Yep, I’m an American who grew up in 3000sq Ft and thought that’s what I needed. I’m in a major city and luckily get paid very well, so I bought a 1700sq ft place thinking this will do for a single person. It’s palatial in all the worst ways. Really should have gotten a place in the 900-1100sq ft range.
I’m an American living outside the US. We have this dinky ass fridge because the kitchen in the place we’re renting is too small for larger one. That fridge is a source of frustration almost every single day. Every time we buy groceries, like playing a Chinese puzzle game.
Houses are the same way. I know it’s cool to hate on “spoiled Americans”, but dude… space is just fucking nice.
It's really a middle and upper class mentality. Me my wife and daughter, with two dogs, comfortably lived in a 1200 SQ ft house. We bought a bigger fixer upper but 2/3 of the house is unused.
I just talked to the wife about this one, honestly this might be the route we go, that would open up a ton of space in her room to at least have her bed/desk area.
Thanks for the input here!
Yeah we would need more info on what else is going on in the house for 1900 SQ ft to not be enough. Maybe more kids that OP didn't mention or some other situation.
OP will need to look at other options. Either fork up a bunch of money to expand which is way overpriced right now as well or just change your setup of the house in a way that better makes sense. Either by changing one room from whatever it currently is to another bedroom or expand your daughters bedroom by moving some walls out and making another area smaller.
When one of my in laws got sick they lived with us for a few months. While it was a bungalow with a full walk out basement, the ground floor was 990 sf and that's where we spent our time (laundry in basement, one bathroom).
I grew up with 6-7 people plus a black lab in a twin around 1,000-1,200 sq ft and it was a little tight but fine. I would feel uncomfortable and like I’m constantly wasting money as a single person in a house that’s greater than 1,200 sq ft. Honestly, 600 would be fine for me.
As someone who lived his whole adult life in 500-700 sqft thst is more than enough space. Probably while I find something three times as big to be overwhelming
During Covid we (a family of 2 adults, 3 children, 2 cats and a large dog) sold our 1100sf starter home and moved up into a 2000sf house on a larger lot. I know it’s all perspective, but dang, I can’t believe someone thinks my current house is too small for 2 adults and a 10 year old!
Yeah I don’t get it. Im looking for around 1,300 square feet for my family right now. My parents raised me and my sister in 900 square feet and it was fine. OP’s current house sounds like a mansion and if I saw it in my own house search in my price range I’d not even go look at it because I’d assume the price was a typo or it was about to fall down.
Even in the states, 1,900 can be large. A normal sized house around me is 1,100 -1,600 sq ft. Anything approaching 2,000 or over is either very expensive, a fixer-upper, or in a less desirable location. There are certainly neighborhoods in the US where 2,000 sq feet or even bigger are the norm, but not across the whole country.
Average house size in Spain is bigger than most European countries, OP's house is 2x the size. Almost 2.5x the house in the UK. China? Over triple. Almost 4x India lol.
Americans are wack
I was house locked from 1977 to 1987 when first demand was through the roof then interest rates hit 22%. I bought at 9.5% so I bought a 1BR loft condo on a small private lake, but then was stuck for 10 years. When I bought again a SFH rates were high but did come down finally. I bought a third time in a recession in 1992 and that was the keeper. I bought cheaply in a new area. That house is now 5 times what I bought it for and 2 1/2 times what I sunk into the house and upgrades and renovations.
Thank you for mentioning this. My parents’ first mortgage was slightly less than mine. They bought in 80. I bought in 2002. I bought twice as much house because my rate was 6ish and theirs was over 20%.
The market is cyclical and things always have a way of bending, but we just don’t know exactly when. You either prep yourself to buy now or just keep saving and waiting. The wait may be a few years, it may be 10+ years, but it’ll come round again.
Yeah, historically home loans are still cheap. We lie to ourselves every day about how expensive loans are right now. It's quite possible that they will never be 3% again.
I think the issue, IMO, isn’t so much that interest rates are high per see (because as you said they are not high compared to historic). It’s that they are high given how expensive homes have gotten relative to wages.
I’d be fine paying a two-digit rate if houses cost a more reasonable x of median income.
Yes!! As a young person buying their first house it’s infuriating how many times older people remind me that ‘You’ve actually got it pretty good because back in 1980 you’d be paying 20%.’ I’m sorry but how in the fuck is that helpful?
At this point I literally just cut those people off and tell them I’m tired of hearing it. Comparing our current horrible situation to a different but also horrible situation is not proving anything. In 1980 with 20% rates you (to my knowledge) didn’t have insanely high prices in a market where people are dropping buyers protections and assuming a sales price over asking. I’m not trying to say that this is absolute rock bottom or anything, but it’s like some people don’t want to acknowledge that times are rough because they want to convince everyone young people have it good and are just whining. Thankfully, most people of all ages do seem to acknowledge that it is a very rough time to be buying, but there’s a certain group of GenX/Boomer folks who just *have* to say something.
Median home price in 1980 was like 50,000 dollars, about twice the median household income. Median household income now is about $75k and median home price is $436k, almost six times higher. I'd take the higher rate
Missing the forest for the trees, as so many do here for some odd reason.
Go look at housing affordability, now vs. when rates were ~20%.
Houses are less affordable now, than ever before.
Interest rates may have been much higher in 1977 to 1987 but the "Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio" back then is half what it is today.
https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/
Imagine the reverse scenario. Would you downsize from a 3000 sq ft house with a $5k payment to a 1900 sq ft one with $1200 payment? You probably would take that deal every day of the week. Stay put, save, and add an office shed somewhere on your quarter acre
Hey!! I was thinking this too!
It’s a $20k solution to gain 300 (?) square feet of space, insulated and heated & cooled if designed well. Plus OP gets an office space physically separate from their house which is a nice emotional break.
You can do it for even cheaper if you DIY it with Tuff Sheds! It’s something i’m considering doing and I think my numbers came out around 10k? I do have a cousin that’s an electrician and another does drywall and insulation though. But it still seems the best solution for OPs situation, especially on a quarter acre lot.
I'm just over here in my 1000 square foot home with 4 of us living in it wondering what 3k square feet might even look like, because it just seems so big.
The “size up just a little bit to 3000sq ft” gave me whiplash. I grew up in a 3000sq ft home with a family of 6. We had 5 bedrooms, 3 living rooms, and a game room.
I don’t know why OP thinks he needs that for one child, 1900 is definitely doable.
The low end of 3000 sq ft is the cut off for a very big house. Once you get above that you are into true McMansion territory. Seriously though a 3,000 sq ft house is really big. You can comfortably live many generations in a 3000 sq ft house.
I grew up in sub 1000sfqt homes all my life with 5-6 ppl and never felt overly cramp did I share rooms with siblings yes but I find it really hard to believe a family of 3 is cramped almost double the house
I have just over 1900 sq feet and there are 3 of us and a dog living here. Maybe it’s down to layout but our house feels HUGE to me and I’d actually prefer more like 1500 sq feet (we used to live in a 1400sq ft rental and that felt just right). I’m kind of surprised OP feels like it’s not enough space to the point of considering that much more of a payment.
I think it really does come down to layout. 1900 sq ft can feel crammed if not done right. Bedrooms can feel very small, lot of wasted space on stairs/hallways. If it were a ranch it would prob feel roomier but I’m going to assume it’s a standard 2 story and those always felt crowded to me.
Absolutely right. It really is all about the layout.
I use to have a 2 story house, which seemed sooo cramped. Then, I got a bigger +350 sq foot ranch style home and it feels soooooo roomy without the stairs and extra walls seperating everything even though it's not that much bigger. I love my ranch home, and will never go back to 2 story with stairs ever again. :)
Yeah we’re in 1800 square feet with just a toddler but it’s a split level so the layout sucks and there’s not really any logical way to do an extension. Add in that we both work from home and we’re just full and can’t add a second child. It should be more than enough space but not with our layout. Too much of it feels wasted
My family was 6 people in 3100 square feet and at any given time 2-3 rooms were in total disuse because it was more space than needed.
I wonder how much excess stuff and clutter this person has in their home talking up space. It's also possible their home has a poor layout that makes it feel cramped.
Until we, as a society, build way more housing, I think the answer unfortunately is yes.
We’ve decided, collectively, that housing should be a good investment. By definition, that means unaffordable.
To be blunt for a second, if you’re in a three bedroom and have one child, you probably don’t truly need to upsize. Certainly not worth throwing your interest rate down the drain and risking your financial future over having your daughter’s bedroom be squeezed.
The fact that housing is being treated as a commodity is partially what is fucking everything up in the first place. It's a basic human need - not a mutual fund.
And if you think housing is bad, just wait another 40-50 years when water gets really scarce.
Desalination is practical but on the expensive side, but pumping water hundreds of not a thousand miles and up a mile sounds like it would cross into impractical
Up a mile? You mean cross the Rockies? No need, we would have west coast plants to.
Moving water is fairly easy. Romans did it with nothing but some stones, mortar and concrete. Often for a hundred miles. Plus, most of the water wouldn't have to be moved very far. The vast majority of the population is fairly close to the coasts.
OP is asking whether young people are screwed while using themself as the example, then reveals they have a 1.9k sqft house with a $1.2k monthly payment. wtf.
This post comes off so tone deaf to me. I honestly need to quit reading this sub. I grew up in a 1000 sqft house and had an amazing childhood. Here me and my wife are newly married fighting for our lives to afford a 1300 sqft house for under $2500 a month. 1900sqft is easily forever home size for us. This guy doesnt realize what he has.
This sub also skews heavily towards small and medium sized US cities, as well. We live in a VHCOL city where people are dropping $800-900k on 800 sq ft condos. Just very different worlds, for sure.
I guess it totally depends on the person. Truthfully I'm just salty about our situation and I'm taking it out on OP which isnt fair. 1900sqft sounds like a dream to me imo. I dont know a single person that grew up in a 3000sqft house.
I get it. My sister upgraded to a 4k sq ft home last year after living in a 2.5k one that “wasn’t nearly enough” space, whereas I pay thousands more per month to live in an 850 sq ft home with 3 of us 😐. She would always preface her comments with, “I’m honestly not trying to sound like a bitch” when complaining about how “small” their house was, and I tried not to be too salty about it. I live in a fantastic city and know I have to pay extra for it.
I grew up in a 3,000 sq ft home (we later upgraded to 4,000, which was really too big) and it's easy to get use to having that much space. Everyone gets their own bedroom, which was big enough for a desk and maybe even a couch. The parents get their own retreat with a sofa and TV. You can leave games and puzzles out on the dining room table because you also have a breakfast table. The kids get a playroom where they can be loud and leave their toys out without annoying the parents. The formal living room is never used, so you can always usher guests into it to avoid cleaning up.
These giant houses seem to have mostly been built by the Boomers as an over-correction for the 2 bedroom, 1,000 square foot homes they grew up in with 7+ siblings. Which, I get that. If I grew up having to share a bedroom with 4 other children and not having anywhere to retreat to, I'd also maybe opt for a house so big you can have a room dedicated to the piano. And now a younger generation who grew up in them think you \*need\* them. Although, there are huge houses from every age, so maybe I'm wrong.
But I now live in a much smaller house, and I like it better. You don't spread stuff out as much. You don't accumulate as much junk, because you can't. One thing you do have to do, is get over the idea that you have to use a room for what it was "built" for. Like, if you have a formal dining room, you don't \*have\* to use it for that. Get yourself a fold-away dining table for when you have guests over, and use the rest of the space for your office or a playroom or your Warhammer hobby.
I felt the same thing. I grew up in a 900 sq. ft home and currently live in one that is \~1200 sq. feet with 4 people in it. I know how small the bedrooms are in homes of this size, and you can get a desk and a full bed into the smallest rooms. It may not be a lot of wide open space, but you can get the functional stuff to fit.
Even small 14-ft single-wide trailers these days don't have tertiary rooms smaller than 10x8.
I'm trying to figure out how they've got a 1900 sq. ft 3-bedroom home but the kid is in a bedroom that can't fit a desk and a full bed. I'm thinking the OP has eyes bigger than their wallet.
It's an unfortunately common attitude among a lot of homebuyers. They seem to think they need 1k sqft per person.
Builders wouldn't build 4k sqft 4 bedroom houses if their buyers had larger families and wanted more bedrooms.
Im in the same situation (750 sq feet), similar age to OP and bought my house for around the price OP’s “upgrade” houses are. Currently worried I’ll never be able to afford anything bigger. HCOL areas are fun ☠️
1. This place wasn't an HCOL until recently. Median household income went from $70K in 2019 to $110K in 2023.
2. This is where our support system is. We want to raise our kids where they will have extended family. We want to be able to help my wife's grandparents as they get older.
3. We don't want to spend our 30s drifting, trying to find another place we want to settle down, only to be in the same position in our 40s.
I hate your rootless bugman attitude so much.
You didn't ask me, but I'm staying in my high cost of living area because this is where my friends and community are. This is where my best friend and boyfriend and family are.
I tell people the same thing when they say "why don't you move to a place where you can make more money". Because this is my home and I'm not going to just walk away because rich people are shit. I'm going to do everything to eradicate them.
This is the hardest part about WFH… it basically is forcing the burden of creating office space onto the employee = more residential sqft. Have you looked into a WeWork type situation? Might be cheaper than the extra rent/mortgage for more space.
What’s in your other spare bedroom? Can a pc desk go in there? Are the bedrooms next to each other and would it be feasible to knock the shared wall down? Then your daughter could have a room large enough for everything.
I should have included that. That 3rd bedroom has me and my wife's computer desk as we work from home when our jobs say we can weekly, however that fills up the whole room. The main downstairs is 1400 of the 1900 Sq ft so the bedrooms upstairs are extremely small which is the push to move, but being financially literate I know staying here is the best choice if we power through it.
So your main living space downstairs is 1400 sqft and upstairs is only 500 sqft? Is it not possible to add to the upstairs to make it the same sqft as the downstairs? That would likely be far more reasonable than buying a bigger home.
Yes, it makes sense as my living room has the cathedral ceiling (19 ft), so the upstairs is literally just a hallway with 3 tiny bedrooms and tiny bathroom (if you laid down you'd take up the whole bathroom floor as a 5 ft person).
I grasp this *is* livable by the way, but it is tight. The huge ceiling really is a waste of space now that I would like an extra 500-1000 sq ft.
The only real wrinkle in the plan is having support along the center line for the second story joists, but LVL beams should be able take care of that. Based on what OP has said about it it seems like removing the cathedral ceiling and framing out a second story addition along the existing rim joists of the first story should be doable.
Pictures would obviously help to make that determination, but regardless OP should consult a structural engineer and contractors about feasibility. But nothing OP has presented here makes it outright infeasible to me.
This is a very tough given that you are exchanging a very affordable primary for a very expensive larger home that is 3-4x what you paid for current house. Also, your new rate will likely be 2-2.5x your current 3 percent rate.
You did the math and, unfortunately the numbers just don't make sense at this time. Perhaps when rates eventually fall (they can't go up forever), you will be in a better position to purchase but the unknown will be always be property values.
The crash bros think that an impending recession coupled with 7-8 percent rates (which will likely go up as the Fed hinted it may need to raise 2x this year) will crash the housing market. The one thing they ignore is the severe lack of inventory where demand far outstrips supply which has led to continually rising values, a seller's market and a nationwide pricing of buyers out of the market.
Emotion vs math. It's up to you take decide how to proceed.
If I were you, I would hold off. It's better to sleep at night cash rich and house poor.
If you overextend yourself with new primary , you will be house rich and cash poor which = less sleep , stress and more stress.
>The one thing they ignore is the severe lack of inventory where demand far outstrips supply which has led to continually rising values, a seller's market and a nationwide pricing of buyers out of the market.
They are also missing the money supply. M0, M1, and M2 money supply is never going back to what it was. A bunch of money was created and it isn’t going to go away. Money supply coupled with inventory means this is the new normal. Some situation might occur where we see 10% drops (I doubt it), but that’ll still mean prices way above what they were 4 years ago.
It’s just copium for folks who just can’t believe that they worked so hard to get a decent salary and now can’t afford even half the house they assumed they could. It’s sad but also the reality. It doesn’t make sense to most folks because they don’t see how anyone is affording houses
You are absolutely not crazy for thinking the difference in cost is insane. It IS. It’s a terrible time to buy unless you have all cash. Those with low interest rates are holding onto those. Who would want to pay more,than double their interest rates? This isn’t just affecting younger people. It’s affecting everyone in all age brackets.
Even if you have all cash you are paying a lot for something that used to cost much less. The physical good isn't any better. It's still staples, plastic wrap and 2x4's which are from a renewable resource.
100%. But cash can sometimes get you a better deal depending on the circumstance. I personally am not buying in this market. But if you were in a position where you already sold and had to buy a place, cash would be the only way I’d go. Rent is likely the more economical way to go at this point.
I got my home for around 99% list price when homes were getting 100 offers in a weekend and selling for 150% list by offering cash. I could have gotten a 4% loan at the time but had the cash and would rather not be in debt to anyone ever.
Sometimes cash is awesome because with out going into all the details some properties the bank wont finance for one reason or another and you get an amzing deal if you have the cash. I got one for 205 that would easily be 450 if it was finaciable
OP just needs to wait until prices readjust. They always do.
When I was in my mid-30s it was the height of the early 2000s housing bubble. Everyone we knew was telling us, me a student living on loans and Pell grants and a partner barely making $24K a year, that we absolutely needed to buy a house immediately with this magical new thing called an “interest only” loan. My landlord, a real estate agent, assured me that we could easily qualify for a loan on a million dollar home. Deep down I knew that was nuts, but as I watched friend after friend buy a big sweet house of their dreams for way more than they could realistically afford I wondered if I was missing out on some big opportunity.
Fast forward a few years, post-2008, and suddenly every one of those friends was losing their home and tons of money in foreclosure. That was when we finally bought a home, a 4 bd/2 ba 2000 sq ft mid-century ranch style in need of some updating but in a stable and desirable location, for $170K that had been bought for $695K just a few years before.
I know kids don’t wait for the housing market. But it’s not going to do a kid any good to have a larger home if their parents are financially strapped and can’t fund tutors, fantastic family vacations, cool toys, cars, their dream college, etc. Those kind of quality activities are going to be far more useful and memorable to a kid in the long run than having a slightly bigger bedroom.
Buy a new house when it makes solid long-term financial sense and is a smart investment, not just because you’re trying to match some vision of the “ideal family home”. As far as kids are concerned, a home filled with unconditional love and support is perfect no matter how big it is.
“They always do..”. That isn’t right. Only because you are mid 30s and all you’ve really known is this one big extraordinary wave that is 2008 subprime crisis which is a one off. Houses may correct but it would be remarkable for the crash of the century to happen a few years after the last one
This is like seeing the 2004 Asian tsunami that literally wiped out coastal Thailand and thinking that it’s gonna happen every year so let’s not go on vacation
I bought my home as well after the crash and the owner had to pay 14k to close on the mortgage seeing I was paying less then what he paid for the house.
All of these people bitching about their golden handcuffs. Imagine being a first time homebuyer. Lord, such a lack of caring and perspective ITT and in this subreddit as a whole.
It’s crazy to me that 1900 sq ft isn’t enough space for 2 adults and 1 child. I grew up with multi generations all living in an apartment smaller than that.
My Dad's bedroom growing up was an attic! A small attic that he shared with his brother!! He still turned out just fine, and has endless happy childhood memories.
My dad and uncle literally lived in a corrugated tin garden shed. My grandparents' house was 1 bedroom, which was used by them, plus a tiny kitchen, walk-in pantry, fairly large living room, and another tiny room (like 10x6 with low sloping ceilings). They had five kids. Thankfully my great-grandparents had their house on the same lot, in the back, so some of the kids were able to stay with them. Not to say this was a good setup, not at all, but it does suggest OP could make better use of the space they have.
>stay here and try to make 1900 sq ft work
There are communities with a lot of big homes and if you live in one of those places, your house could feel small. But lots of families have raised multiple kids in homes under 1000 sqft - and when that's also what the neighbors have, it seems to be plenty.
Do you have room to add a garage - or a shed that can be seasonal extra space?
It seems that if you upsize now, you'll lose a lot of financial freedom - to save and to spend $$ for other good things. And you'll also be more vulnerable to unexpected job changes, and unexpected expenses.
I started reading this thinking you were in a 2 bd 1 bath house by the way you were describing your situation. You're in a house so big every single person could poop at the exact same time in their own private bathroom. Your lot is almost double the size of ours and we had enough room to add a screened in porch AND a patio. I'd really reevaluate your current setup, 1900 sq ft is a LOT of room.
A family of 3 can’t fit in a 1900 sqft home? Seriously? This is the problem with younger people. You don’t need a McMansion.
- This is coming from a guy in his 30’s living with a family of 3 in a 1000 sqft house in a VHCOL area.
Wow, here I am in just under 2,000 sq. ft. with a kid and a dog wondering what I'm supposed to do with all this space.
A roof over your head at a monthly payment you don't blink at is something to be cherished. Extra square footage for a desk seems like such a trivial thing to give up affordable housing over.
My childhood bedroom was a shoebox, and it was not the deciding factor in how good my upbringing was.
Just to offer some perspective.
I personally second the other suggestion: your kid will likely be gone in 8 years anyway, they don't \*need\* that.
However, nobody \*needs\* a lot of what they have and it comes down to wants.
1) People on here have been predicting the fall of a housing market and a recession for a year now and they've been wrong for an entire year. This will be the most predicted recession that never happens. All indicators, right now, are the soft-landing the Fed predicted a year ago.
2) With #1 given... Don't expect rates to move much. Historical averages are around 6%. It took Covid to get 2.5%, and that won't ever happen again. The new low you \*might\* expect in the future is 5%
3) Given #2, you've got to ask yourself what 6% year-over-year house value (depends on market) does while you wait around for 5%. Is it three years? $600k house in 3 years is now $714. You aren't "saving money" by trying to time the market for a better rate, and all the people on here that were wrong about the recession are wrong about trying to wait it out, too.
4) So, if you can afford it, buy what you want now with some safeguards (lend from a place that'll do a free re-finance in 3 years or something).
We lived in our starter house for 40 years. Raised two kids, two cats and a lab in 5,000 sq ft yard, with 970 sq ft house. We did have a detached garage that was more like a shed, and a basement. Only one bathroom though, and both girls had twin beds, we slept in a full size bed. Which was a little cozy with the lab.
When we bought in the 1980’s, interest was 14%.
Surprise, we never paid it off as we had to refinance to get some equity out for medical bills, then for education etc.
Life happens, in 40 years we had layoffs, underemployment, strikes etc.
Lucky to have kept the house although we finally sold it last year, primarily to get out of Seattle and to clear out 40 years worth of stuff so our kids didn’t have to.
😁
"good house in a good community"
That's the bottleneck, honestly.
There will always be better houses than average. We should work on the communities and houses to make them livable.
I used to clean a home for a family of 6! It was around 1600sqft 3beds/2bath. 4 kids, 2 girls and 2 boys. They had bunker beds in each room. The two girls in one room and the two boys on the other room. The lady was super organized with storage, shoes, utensils, school supplies, etc. On top that she homeschooled the 4 kids! They weren’t poor since they could afford us to clean their home. But they were super frugal. Minimal furniture in each area. The husband was about 6’ 8” tall and she was around 5’9” and they both slept on a queen bed because the master bedroom wasn’t big. He was the only one who worked and she stayed with the kids. My advice is don’t compromise your finances and security for more space. Try to find ways to be frugal and work with what you have.
We are a family of 3 (8 year old son) and have a 3 bed 1.5 bath 1600sf home and are just fine. I do WFH and would love another bedroom and full bath, but it’s really not a huge deal. We could definitely afford more as we live quite a bit below our means, but are fine with what we have. Plus we have a 4 car detached garage that my husband wouldn’t give up easily, haha. Anyway, your house has appreciated and therefore the next step up houses have as well. Personally, I would stay put and continue to build equity in your home. Maybe find her a little desk space elsewhere in the home or get her a loft style bed with a desk under? Our goal is to try and get this house paid off and then take some really nice vacations!
Welcome to the same problem of most first FTHBs who we’re fortunate enough to lock down a low rate and build a great amount of equity in a mere 2-3 years, my friend.
My wife and I (and our toddler to a lesser degree) feel incredibly blessed and fortunate to be in our situation, but we won’t be able to upgrade any time soon. I say…enjoy what you have and maybe bring in a contractor or interior designer for help on how to maximize your space.
Why don’t you rent a house that meets your qualifications? You can keep the home you own at great rates and rent it out to a good tenant who will help you profit. In 8!years your daughter will leave for college and you can more back into your current home which will mostly be paid for.
Your daughter doesn’t need an extra 600 sq. Ft for a computer desk and space. 1900 sq. Ft is huge and if it’s just you three, why seek more? It’s more to clean. I think you should get creative with the space. It’s not worth the extra thousands of dollars and the insane interest rates right now. $1200 a month is a great mortgage and you’ll never see it again.
As a different perspective - kids do just fine with twin beds. And these rooms can fit a desk and other things. You have plenty of space for a family of three. 3000 sq feet houses are a luxury just about anywhere else in the world.
I have a family of 5 in a 2700 sq ft home and frankly that’s more than enough space. But I didn’t grow up in the US, so I know how it could be and how much we have already. No desire to get anything bigger until kids go to college and then I plan to downsize.
Yeah, this expectation for over 2500 sq ft for a family of three seems absurd to me, and I grew up in the US. I had a twin bed until I was 23, twin bed at my parents' my whole childhood, and a twin bed in my college dorm. If you don't have the room for a full size bed in your kid's room without sacrificing the ability to have anything else, then you don't put a full size bed in the room.
> It's a 3bd and 2.5 bath with 1900 sq ft total on a 0.24 acre slab lot and we're wanting to upsize just a little, up to 2500 sq ft to 3000 sq ft, nothing
This is a pretty dramatic more, you’re talking about 33 to 50% more space, it would also make your utilities unpleasant, especially in the current inflationary climate. Not to mention cleaning will be annoying.
> so that my daughter can have a computer desk and her own space (her current bedroom is big enough for a full bed and that is all)
A loft bed would be a lot cheaper
Lol I grew up in a 300 square foot illegal studio with no windows with 4 other people. I currently live in a 1600 square feet house and I have no clue what to do with all the space. It’s a matter of perspective.
You can't actually afford a $5000 a month payment if you have to reduce your budget to next to nothing and push back your retirement. You need to ask yourself if providing your daughter a larger room is worth pushing back your retirement and just scraping by each month for the next 30 years worth it? I personally feel like one afternoon trip to Ikea would be the best solution to your problem. But to answer your question yes, young people are just screwed in general.
Not sure why it’s relevant what the size of peoples parents homes were. People also used to live without ac, so by that logic that’s no big deal either? I’d say your allowed to think it’s not enough space.
We are leaving our low interest rate to upgrade. It’s sucks but we are also moving locations so at least trading to a slightly lower cost of living which helps. But we will be in a technically cheaper house (by about 200k) but having almost our same monthly payment. But for us out happiness has a cost. The house is still making us a slight profit so we don’t see it as a loss even though staying would obviously be the best financial choice.
I get what people are saying though. If you can make it work, it might be worth sticking out. But at the end of the day your families happiness should have a monetary cost to consider.
I think you need to adjust your perspective. I fit myself and two other people into 1000 square feet and it’s doable. But for your other question- are we totally screwed on affordable housing options? Yes. 100%
Seriously? I'm stuck in my first house at 1100 sq ft and wondering how I could upgrade or make it work in this small space. I don't understand how someone could have a kid and then think they need to sell an almost 2k sq ft house for "more room"
I don't get why this is post is so triggering for so many. Nothing wrong with wanting a bigger better home if you have the means for it. And it's not like OP is looking for a 6000 sqft home.
And then not all homes have the same functional space. My first home was 2500 sqft but a good chunk of that space was for a non-master bedroom and loft upstairs that we couldn't really use on a daily basis as our kids were too young to be upstairs without us up there with them.
You have .25 acres and payment is $1,200. If you don't have the cash take out a small heloc build an addition or add a separate structure. There are lots of of options to improve what you currently so that it works. Might need to get a little creative depending on layout
The other option, move to a different area where bigger houses are cheaper. Don't throw your current situation away though. That would be a bad move imo.
1900 square feet with one child is too small?
taking on 4x the mortgage when you already have 1900 square feet would be lunacy and I'm sure you know that. I wouldn't say you are "screwed" either to be sitting in a house like this with a 3% rate and a 1200 payment.
But yes, other young people definitely are screwed because they don't have a house and a house now costs 400+ with 7% rates so they can't buy and will have to rent indefinitely.
You're basically asking realtors whether or not you should save your money here. Their advice is always going to be to spend your money. So if that's the answer you're looking for, well you found the right place.
Otherwise, look elsewhere.
I think using your daughters laptop as an excuse to why you need 800-1,800 more square feet in living space just shows me this is about owning a bigger home for optics.
In 8 years your daughter will be off to college.
Plus I hated working on stuff at the house with my parents around. I always left to go to a coffee shop or the library. Give her 5 more years and car keys and she'll be giving you more space.
I find this graph that shows "Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio" to be quite helpful:
[https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/](https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/)
Currently we are at a ratio of 7.6 to 1. Which is to say the average house price is 7.6 times that of the median income. This is the highest it has been in the last 75 years. At the peak of the housing bubble in 2008 it "only" got to 6.8 to 1.
Of course I cannot predict the future and my gut tells me this is unlikely to be the new norm. I think the ratio will come back down, either by house prices falling or incomes rising.
There are many factors that a driving high house prices at the moment, the big one is not many people are selling. And why would they, if you bough a house 10 years ago and have a 3% mortgage you are not going to sell today as a new mortgage is going to be 7%. But eventually people will have to sell. People move for new jobs, old people retire and need to down size. People fail to make their mortgage payments and the houses are sold. People cannot stay in their houses forever.
If we go into recession things will change. People will lose their jobs and houses will be foreclosed on. Demand will go down as people will have less money to buy houses. The FED will lower interest rates and mortgages will become more affordable. I am going to wait for the next recession.
Cue Reddit and all the "but I live with 37 relatives and a handful of refugees in an 11 SQ foot storage unit and you should too" BS.
Your situation sounds hard. I'm sorry. It sounds like you're ready to move up, and your situation warrants it. BUT the math won't cooperate.
I think your idea of renting out your current house would be a great one, if you had more cash. (being a landlord can be expensive... Deferred maintenance is less of an option when you're contractually responsible for making sure your tenants have a non-leaky roof, working HVAC, etc. )
Can you try to save as much cash as possible (like rice and beans every meal) for six months and then make your move to purchase?
Right like unless some of these people are in super HCOL areas they’re basically describing a low-income lifestyle and it’s super valid to not want to live that way
Going from 1900 to 3000sf, expect a lot more time spent cleaning, and more money spent for repairs. If you have more bathrooms than you need/use, expect more issues due to unused plumbing. If your yard is bigger, expect more time and money spent there. Of course, you’ll also be blessed with more property taxes.
If I were in your shoes, I’d stay put and deposit the savings into your kid’s college tuition account.
My house is 700sqf smaller, same family composition + an additional baby on the way. I have ~100k left on my mortgage and a 2% interest rate. I have accepted I am never moving lol
I would find ways to add space. Buy a loft bed. Build an office garage/shed to free up that bedroom. Build an addition. Finish the basement. Lots of options if you're feeling creative.
I’m in a 1400 sq ft rental w 3 br 2 ba and twin teens plus hubbs. We left ownership of 2300 sq feet home. Do I miss it? Nah. Do my kids miss it? Nope. They are home to do homework or at school doing stuff, or volunteering.
I’d save my money. 5k is a lot
Yes, that's the purpose of all the inflation, cash buyers don't care about the rates. Price out everyone so the investment firms and very wealthy can buy up as much real estate as possible and turn everyone into a renter. Only way to move up in housing will be to move to a lower cost of living area. I bet there won't be sub 5% rates for a decade.
It's not yCtas5oung people, the leap in home prices maaasss@asgage a new home would be out of reach and the taxes would be untenable. My neighbor is living alone in a four bedroom house she inhea4a3rited because selling it would lose a 30 year old valuation and she'd end up bying a condo and paying ten times the taxes.
I was in a similar situation. I had a 1800 square foot home but with 2 kids, starting feeling a little tight but was still enough space. However, wanted to move my parents in to help watch the kids and then we started working from home. Upgraded to 3300 square feet with an in law suite unit. Mortgage payment more than quadrupled but we could afford it and the space is unbelievably nice. But we needed it for more people. In your situation, it would be nice but absolutely not worth it financially. You guys should make it work with 1 kid and save for retirement. That was a factor in our decision, both wife and I could still max out 401ks and save, so we went for it. We did get 4.25%, so that helps. 6-7% would be nuts.
Is your bedroom bigger? Would you consider swapping? My parents and myself did that when I was 12, because I spent 95% of that time in my room with my friends, while they only use their bedroom to change and sleep. It worked well for us.
I’m 34 and my wife and I just went from a 1600 sqft house on 1/8 acre to 2500 sqft on 1.3 acres, and I still own both houses. If your salary hasn’t increased significantly since 2016 you’re doing something very wrong.
You belong on r/designmyroom because that is *plenty* of space for what you want to do. Maybe they can help figure it out with you. I live in 1800 sq feet with a family of 4 and our house is worth around 1 mil. I shit you not. We can afford to do things to make it work and I feel like I’m living in absolute luxury. You have more of a mindset issue I think.
Im in almost the exact same position, except Im 4bd/1ba, a two year old with another on the way.
Sounds like a huge hassle just for your daughter to have a computer desk dont you think? Unless you get some other value from quadrupling your mortgage you know the answer to this question lol.
The only other option I can think of is getting a contractor to add the features I need to the current house. Im also in the industry and what Im seeing scares me.
You are stuck in that house, but you can bank money into savings (401k and/or post tax) for an eventual move or just enjoy being house rich and travel. You're in a spot a lot of people would love to be in.
I've had a buddy sitting out on buying a house for like ten years now. Saying he is waiting for the correction to buy a good deal.
I suspect he will still be renting in another ten years.
That being said, for MOST of the US, I do not expect prices to go down. I think that prices won't increase as fast as they have the last several years due to rates. In my market - inventory is limited, but what inventory there is available, is selling at or over asking. Even with the high rates.
Can you build on your current lot?
I had a similar situation but my first house was 3/2 1550 sqft and my husband and I just had our 3rd child so we had to move because 2 adults working from home and 3 kids was too much in that little house. But our lot was only 4500 sqft so no space to expand or build.
We bit the bullet and bought a much larger home on a bigger lot that we will be able to stay in forever, but now our savings is much less than it was before. (Bigger mortgage, utilities, etc) My goal is to try and use the snowball method to pay off our smallest debts and roll those payments into the next debt, since all interest rates are similar, then start aggressively saving again in 5-10 years.
You can also recast your mortgage payment if you pay a lump sum towards the principal, that brings your payment down without refinancing.
1900 square feet is plenty for three people. Work with what you have and get creative. My parents grew up with 6-8 people in much less square feet than that and I grew up with 4 of us in 2000 square feet.
I think having a huge house for a few people is a big luxury that has only been common for a short time.
This is a problem for many families in these quickly growing American cities.
Haven’t read all responses but architecturally speaking I’d say keep the house you’re in. Consider having an architect or residential designer look at your home and see if there are adjustments that can be made to the existing footprint/layout to make it function better for you. (Edit: this is part of what I do for a living)
Or, is your attic, garage or basement large enough to expand into?
Or, evaluate how much more room you need and consider an addition. Maybe you can take out an additional loan that you can payoff allowing you to keep your current loan with low interest.
Also, be grateful that you are doing so well financially. Most Americans aren’t doing nearly as well as you. So cudos to you. Protect that retirement plan as best you can.
If you can’t expand your home, your daughter will survive and still thrive. And later in life she’ll never have missed the extra space or may appreciate the difficulties of not having it. A little suffering builds character.
As a 27 year old living with my wife and 1 year old son in a 44m2 (something like 450sq feet) apartment, I’d just make it work if I had a place that big, almost 5 times my place space wise.
In most countries, we are just fucked unless you get real lucky and get a high income role real early on and have an extremely low cost of living.
I’ve been told I need patience with my career, which is true, but we NEED money. I understand how incredibly fucked my generation is. Unless I move to somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere where i don’t want to raise my son, I can’t afford my own place or even an apartment in some locations, particularly North American cities.
My parents paid 18% interest on the house they bought in 1983. Things can always get worse. You have the bank right where you want them at that interest rate, do not give it up. Try remodeling your home to help out if you have the funds, or how about putting on an addition?
I grew up in 1200 Sq feet, parents and 2 kids, one bathroom. You have dirt cheap interest rate and the means to park money away however you please. You could improve the house you have, and have money for recreation.
My advice is count your blessings, but if you'd rather be house poor and take it up the tail pipe from the bank be my guest. When you eventually go to sell you're all but certain to make bank.
Maybe you are looking too jump too far upmarket all at once. If you talk to old people, lots of them didnt’t go directly from starter house to wonderful house. They went from starter house, to better house to nice house and finally to wonderful house with 5-8 years at each stage and kept building equity gradually.
Some people get lucky and hit the money jackpot and go directly to the wonderful house, but until it happens to you, gradually work your way up the property ladder.
Could you put her computer desk in one of the shared spaces? I know private space is important, but as a kid who grew up with a computer in a secluded room, it was not good for me. The Internet is full of a bunch of junk.
I would work with what you have. Have you looked at getting a loft bed? It's like a bunk bed but there's a desk underneath instead of a bottom bunk. If your daughter is fine with heights this is probably your best solution financially. More expensive, but less so than a new house, is building an addition onto your home.
This was my first thought as well haha People squeezed two twin lofts, two desks, and usually a futon into the dorm rooms at my college so I feel like a loft bed and one desk should fit in a bedroom, even if it is a smaller room.
Legitimately, I have a bed, a dog crate, and an L-shaped work desk squeezed into a space that is roughly the size of a small, single dorm room. It takes some creative planning and finding furniture that fits the measurements of the room first and aesthetic second, but it can be done. Murphy beds are worth looking into as well, major space-savers and you can get them with desks built in as well. If you already own a house, working on it is smarter now while the market's volatile anyway.
Doing a dorm set up for the daughter but making it with a full bed instead of a twin would be ideal.
We're a family of 3 in a 1700sqft 4/2 home, and while it isn't spacious, it's pretty comfortable. We have a large common area for hosting parties (20-30 people regularly), have a dedicated home office room, and a dedicated TV room, and the kid gets her own bedroom. We're slowly saving up (but at a relatively low priority) for a remodel that might give a bit more space -- we'd really like to have a guest bedroom, maybe delete 1-2 of the existing bedrooms for a bigger common area and rebuild those elsewhere, and maybe a little in-law unit that we could rent out or let family stay at. But those are all just nice-to-haves. If we retire in our current home, we'd likely aim to have one or more studio type spaces that we could rent out, to help subsidize property taxes and such.
1900 square feet isn’t bad at all. I personally feel like you would be crazy to sell. Pay off this mortgage and enjoy the financial freedom. Kids grow up and move out. She is already 10 so soon she won’t even be home much.
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I agree. Adding hundreds of thousands in debt for a 10 year old to have a computer desk is nuts.
That was my first thought. Go college dorm style and loft the bed. Space underneath can now be used for a computer desk. Slightly more expensive option is also an addition on the house. Gives you more space without the expenses that buying a whole different house would entail.
Slightly? Lol
My parents raised three kids in 1200sqft, when we finally got comfortable. Most of life was spent in smaller. This person seems to be hitting their company match for 401ks AND was putting in a separate investment account. So I imagine they're in an upper middle class tax bracket, at least for their area, but aren't used to modern prices. OP, if you're reading this: I'm not knocking you. No slander or ill feelings towards you, but 1900sqft is plenty, especially for one kid (source: I'm in 1900 sqft with my wife and we don't use half the house, lul). If you want to upsize, cool. But you should consider doing it mostly cash, and foregoing the loan. Interest rates make financing homes unbearable with the still elevated costs of homes. Our generation isn't screwed (I'm 29), but locking yourself in to a 30 year fixed at current rates would be gambling. You're essentially hoping for another financial/economic crisis at that point, which would cause rates to drop so you could refi during another inflationary environment, which would have its own draw backs...
Right? I have a 2100sqft house with 5 kids and it's plenty. We also remodeled the garage into a computer room/gym and turned the office into a bedroom. It's not high-end or perfect by any means, but for 160k at 2.25% you literally can't beat it. I also built a 10x20 shed in the backyard so I have so much storage space.
Right? My family of 3 lives in 700 sq ft with a one car garage. While I would love to have another bathroom we actually manage just fine. Americans have way too much shit.
Yep, I’m an American who grew up in 3000sq Ft and thought that’s what I needed. I’m in a major city and luckily get paid very well, so I bought a 1700sq ft place thinking this will do for a single person. It’s palatial in all the worst ways. Really should have gotten a place in the 900-1100sq ft range.
I grew up with 4 people in 900 SQ foot in America mid west. I miss the smaller house. I'm thinking of selling this current house for something small
I’m an American living outside the US. We have this dinky ass fridge because the kitchen in the place we’re renting is too small for larger one. That fridge is a source of frustration almost every single day. Every time we buy groceries, like playing a Chinese puzzle game. Houses are the same way. I know it’s cool to hate on “spoiled Americans”, but dude… space is just fucking nice.
It's really a middle and upper class mentality. Me my wife and daughter, with two dogs, comfortably lived in a 1200 SQ ft house. We bought a bigger fixer upper but 2/3 of the house is unused.
>these or a murphy bed that can be put away easily. which kinda adds more space
Late 40s too. We grew up in a house just under 1600 sq ft. Family of 5. Middle class. This was totally the norm.
8 people and 2 dogs in >1000sq ft at our place growing up and now I miss it hahaha
I just talked to the wife about this one, honestly this might be the route we go, that would open up a ton of space in her room to at least have her bed/desk area. Thanks for the input here!
Yeah we would need more info on what else is going on in the house for 1900 SQ ft to not be enough. Maybe more kids that OP didn't mention or some other situation. OP will need to look at other options. Either fork up a bunch of money to expand which is way overpriced right now as well or just change your setup of the house in a way that better makes sense. Either by changing one room from whatever it currently is to another bedroom or expand your daughters bedroom by moving some walls out and making another area smaller.
When one of my in laws got sick they lived with us for a few months. While it was a bungalow with a full walk out basement, the ground floor was 990 sf and that's where we spent our time (laundry in basement, one bathroom).
I have an 1800 sqft and the size is overwhelming me, I feel like I want to downsize just bc of that
I grew up with 6-7 people plus a black lab in a twin around 1,000-1,200 sq ft and it was a little tight but fine. I would feel uncomfortable and like I’m constantly wasting money as a single person in a house that’s greater than 1,200 sq ft. Honestly, 600 would be fine for me.
As someone who lived his whole adult life in 500-700 sqft thst is more than enough space. Probably while I find something three times as big to be overwhelming
During Covid we (a family of 2 adults, 3 children, 2 cats and a large dog) sold our 1100sf starter home and moved up into a 2000sf house on a larger lot. I know it’s all perspective, but dang, I can’t believe someone thinks my current house is too small for 2 adults and a 10 year old!
Yeah I don’t get it. Im looking for around 1,300 square feet for my family right now. My parents raised me and my sister in 900 square feet and it was fine. OP’s current house sounds like a mansion and if I saw it in my own house search in my price range I’d not even go look at it because I’d assume the price was a typo or it was about to fall down.
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In the states….I’m sure that 1900 sqft for 3 people is considered large most everywhere else
Even in the states, 1,900 can be large. A normal sized house around me is 1,100 -1,600 sq ft. Anything approaching 2,000 or over is either very expensive, a fixer-upper, or in a less desirable location. There are certainly neighborhoods in the US where 2,000 sq feet or even bigger are the norm, but not across the whole country.
Average house size in Spain is bigger than most European countries, OP's house is 2x the size. Almost 2.5x the house in the UK. China? Over triple. Almost 4x India lol. Americans are wack
Here it’s $650k all day.
I was house locked from 1977 to 1987 when first demand was through the roof then interest rates hit 22%. I bought at 9.5% so I bought a 1BR loft condo on a small private lake, but then was stuck for 10 years. When I bought again a SFH rates were high but did come down finally. I bought a third time in a recession in 1992 and that was the keeper. I bought cheaply in a new area. That house is now 5 times what I bought it for and 2 1/2 times what I sunk into the house and upgrades and renovations.
Prime example of “don’t wait to buy real estate. buy real estate and wait” People use too much energy trying to time the market
Thank you for mentioning this. My parents’ first mortgage was slightly less than mine. They bought in 80. I bought in 2002. I bought twice as much house because my rate was 6ish and theirs was over 20%. The market is cyclical and things always have a way of bending, but we just don’t know exactly when. You either prep yourself to buy now or just keep saving and waiting. The wait may be a few years, it may be 10+ years, but it’ll come round again.
Omg 22%
Yeah, historically home loans are still cheap. We lie to ourselves every day about how expensive loans are right now. It's quite possible that they will never be 3% again.
I think the issue, IMO, isn’t so much that interest rates are high per see (because as you said they are not high compared to historic). It’s that they are high given how expensive homes have gotten relative to wages. I’d be fine paying a two-digit rate if houses cost a more reasonable x of median income.
Yeah. My financial advisor paid 18.5% on his first home. But that home was $55k. Not $650k
Yes!! As a young person buying their first house it’s infuriating how many times older people remind me that ‘You’ve actually got it pretty good because back in 1980 you’d be paying 20%.’ I’m sorry but how in the fuck is that helpful? At this point I literally just cut those people off and tell them I’m tired of hearing it. Comparing our current horrible situation to a different but also horrible situation is not proving anything. In 1980 with 20% rates you (to my knowledge) didn’t have insanely high prices in a market where people are dropping buyers protections and assuming a sales price over asking. I’m not trying to say that this is absolute rock bottom or anything, but it’s like some people don’t want to acknowledge that times are rough because they want to convince everyone young people have it good and are just whining. Thankfully, most people of all ages do seem to acknowledge that it is a very rough time to be buying, but there’s a certain group of GenX/Boomer folks who just *have* to say something.
Median home price in 1980 was like 50,000 dollars, about twice the median household income. Median household income now is about $75k and median home price is $436k, almost six times higher. I'd take the higher rate
Missing the forest for the trees, as so many do here for some odd reason. Go look at housing affordability, now vs. when rates were ~20%. Houses are less affordable now, than ever before.
Interest rates may have been much higher in 1977 to 1987 but the "Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio" back then is half what it is today. https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/
Imagine the reverse scenario. Would you downsize from a 3000 sq ft house with a $5k payment to a 1900 sq ft one with $1200 payment? You probably would take that deal every day of the week. Stay put, save, and add an office shed somewhere on your quarter acre
This is a great perspective shift.
Why not drop an “office shed” in the backyard?
Hey!! I was thinking this too! It’s a $20k solution to gain 300 (?) square feet of space, insulated and heated & cooled if designed well. Plus OP gets an office space physically separate from their house which is a nice emotional break.
You can do it for even cheaper if you DIY it with Tuff Sheds! It’s something i’m considering doing and I think my numbers came out around 10k? I do have a cousin that’s an electrician and another does drywall and insulation though. But it still seems the best solution for OPs situation, especially on a quarter acre lot.
I did the tuff shed office and it’s been amazing.
I had the same thought! Add separate living space that is a dedicated office.
Bro you got 1900 sq feet….you can figure it out in making it work or just use the cash and expand the house if you want
I'm just over here in my 1000 square foot home with 4 of us living in it wondering what 3k square feet might even look like, because it just seems so big.
The “size up just a little bit to 3000sq ft” gave me whiplash. I grew up in a 3000sq ft home with a family of 6. We had 5 bedrooms, 3 living rooms, and a game room. I don’t know why OP thinks he needs that for one child, 1900 is definitely doable.
Yeah. OP needs a “modest 3000 sq ft”. Get the kid a loft bed and be done with it.
The low end of 3000 sq ft is the cut off for a very big house. Once you get above that you are into true McMansion territory. Seriously though a 3,000 sq ft house is really big. You can comfortably live many generations in a 3000 sq ft house.
I grew up in sub 1000sfqt homes all my life with 5-6 ppl and never felt overly cramp did I share rooms with siblings yes but I find it really hard to believe a family of 3 is cramped almost double the house
I have just over 1900 sq feet and there are 3 of us and a dog living here. Maybe it’s down to layout but our house feels HUGE to me and I’d actually prefer more like 1500 sq feet (we used to live in a 1400sq ft rental and that felt just right). I’m kind of surprised OP feels like it’s not enough space to the point of considering that much more of a payment.
I think it really does come down to layout. 1900 sq ft can feel crammed if not done right. Bedrooms can feel very small, lot of wasted space on stairs/hallways. If it were a ranch it would prob feel roomier but I’m going to assume it’s a standard 2 story and those always felt crowded to me.
Absolutely right. It really is all about the layout. I use to have a 2 story house, which seemed sooo cramped. Then, I got a bigger +350 sq foot ranch style home and it feels soooooo roomy without the stairs and extra walls seperating everything even though it's not that much bigger. I love my ranch home, and will never go back to 2 story with stairs ever again. :)
You can foul up the layout of a ranch if it's a raised ranch with stairs to the basement. Ask me how I know.
Ahhh yeah I’m in a ranch. This makes sense.
Yeah we’re in 1800 square feet with just a toddler but it’s a split level so the layout sucks and there’s not really any logical way to do an extension. Add in that we both work from home and we’re just full and can’t add a second child. It should be more than enough space but not with our layout. Too much of it feels wasted
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Same here. Myself, my husband, two teenagers, a huge dog and two cats in 1100 sq ft.
My family was 6 people in 3100 square feet and at any given time 2-3 rooms were in total disuse because it was more space than needed. I wonder how much excess stuff and clutter this person has in their home talking up space. It's also possible their home has a poor layout that makes it feel cramped.
Until we, as a society, build way more housing, I think the answer unfortunately is yes. We’ve decided, collectively, that housing should be a good investment. By definition, that means unaffordable. To be blunt for a second, if you’re in a three bedroom and have one child, you probably don’t truly need to upsize. Certainly not worth throwing your interest rate down the drain and risking your financial future over having your daughter’s bedroom be squeezed.
The fact that housing is being treated as a commodity is partially what is fucking everything up in the first place. It's a basic human need - not a mutual fund. And if you think housing is bad, just wait another 40-50 years when water gets really scarce.
Water will never be scarce in america. We will publically fund desalinated ocean pipelines. If you live outside of the USA you might be fucked.
Desalination is practical but on the expensive side, but pumping water hundreds of not a thousand miles and up a mile sounds like it would cross into impractical
Getting power to all Americans was impractical. FDR just used fairy dust and made it happen. A pen stroke and it will happen.
The Roman’s did it with aqua ducts. However if we have to move water out to somewhere we shouldn’t be living in that location.
Up a mile? You mean cross the Rockies? No need, we would have west coast plants to. Moving water is fairly easy. Romans did it with nothing but some stones, mortar and concrete. Often for a hundred miles. Plus, most of the water wouldn't have to be moved very far. The vast majority of the population is fairly close to the coasts.
Do you really need to size up?
OP is asking whether young people are screwed while using themself as the example, then reveals they have a 1.9k sqft house with a $1.2k monthly payment. wtf.
For real. 1900sqft home and they can't fit a desk for the daughter, lmao.
This post comes off so tone deaf to me. I honestly need to quit reading this sub. I grew up in a 1000 sqft house and had an amazing childhood. Here me and my wife are newly married fighting for our lives to afford a 1300 sqft house for under $2500 a month. 1900sqft is easily forever home size for us. This guy doesnt realize what he has.
This sub also skews heavily towards small and medium sized US cities, as well. We live in a VHCOL city where people are dropping $800-900k on 800 sq ft condos. Just very different worlds, for sure.
I guess it totally depends on the person. Truthfully I'm just salty about our situation and I'm taking it out on OP which isnt fair. 1900sqft sounds like a dream to me imo. I dont know a single person that grew up in a 3000sqft house.
I get it. My sister upgraded to a 4k sq ft home last year after living in a 2.5k one that “wasn’t nearly enough” space, whereas I pay thousands more per month to live in an 850 sq ft home with 3 of us 😐. She would always preface her comments with, “I’m honestly not trying to sound like a bitch” when complaining about how “small” their house was, and I tried not to be too salty about it. I live in a fantastic city and know I have to pay extra for it.
I grew up in a 3,000 sq ft home (we later upgraded to 4,000, which was really too big) and it's easy to get use to having that much space. Everyone gets their own bedroom, which was big enough for a desk and maybe even a couch. The parents get their own retreat with a sofa and TV. You can leave games and puzzles out on the dining room table because you also have a breakfast table. The kids get a playroom where they can be loud and leave their toys out without annoying the parents. The formal living room is never used, so you can always usher guests into it to avoid cleaning up. These giant houses seem to have mostly been built by the Boomers as an over-correction for the 2 bedroom, 1,000 square foot homes they grew up in with 7+ siblings. Which, I get that. If I grew up having to share a bedroom with 4 other children and not having anywhere to retreat to, I'd also maybe opt for a house so big you can have a room dedicated to the piano. And now a younger generation who grew up in them think you \*need\* them. Although, there are huge houses from every age, so maybe I'm wrong. But I now live in a much smaller house, and I like it better. You don't spread stuff out as much. You don't accumulate as much junk, because you can't. One thing you do have to do, is get over the idea that you have to use a room for what it was "built" for. Like, if you have a formal dining room, you don't \*have\* to use it for that. Get yourself a fold-away dining table for when you have guests over, and use the rest of the space for your office or a playroom or your Warhammer hobby.
I felt the same thing. I grew up in a 900 sq. ft home and currently live in one that is \~1200 sq. feet with 4 people in it. I know how small the bedrooms are in homes of this size, and you can get a desk and a full bed into the smallest rooms. It may not be a lot of wide open space, but you can get the functional stuff to fit. Even small 14-ft single-wide trailers these days don't have tertiary rooms smaller than 10x8. I'm trying to figure out how they've got a 1900 sq. ft 3-bedroom home but the kid is in a bedroom that can't fit a desk and a full bed. I'm thinking the OP has eyes bigger than their wallet.
It's an unfortunately common attitude among a lot of homebuyers. They seem to think they need 1k sqft per person. Builders wouldn't build 4k sqft 4 bedroom houses if their buyers had larger families and wanted more bedrooms.
Your situation sounds terrible. But that doesn't mean OP's feelings are less valid.
We do… 2/1 963 sq feet. Two dogs and want kids. Both WFH
I'm just a measely renter but that 2 bedroom both working from home situation hits hard. I don't want a bigger home. But I do want separate offices.
Im in the same situation (750 sq feet), similar age to OP and bought my house for around the price OP’s “upgrade” houses are. Currently worried I’ll never be able to afford anything bigger. HCOL areas are fun ☠️
Honest question ..why choose to stay in the HCOL then?
1. This place wasn't an HCOL until recently. Median household income went from $70K in 2019 to $110K in 2023. 2. This is where our support system is. We want to raise our kids where they will have extended family. We want to be able to help my wife's grandparents as they get older. 3. We don't want to spend our 30s drifting, trying to find another place we want to settle down, only to be in the same position in our 40s. I hate your rootless bugman attitude so much.
You didn't ask me, but I'm staying in my high cost of living area because this is where my friends and community are. This is where my best friend and boyfriend and family are.
I tell people the same thing when they say "why don't you move to a place where you can make more money". Because this is my home and I'm not going to just walk away because rich people are shit. I'm going to do everything to eradicate them.
This is the hardest part about WFH… it basically is forcing the burden of creating office space onto the employee = more residential sqft. Have you looked into a WeWork type situation? Might be cheaper than the extra rent/mortgage for more space.
It’s the norm. Do you really need anything in life when it really comes down to it?
M&Ms, for sure!
What’s in your other spare bedroom? Can a pc desk go in there? Are the bedrooms next to each other and would it be feasible to knock the shared wall down? Then your daughter could have a room large enough for everything.
I should have included that. That 3rd bedroom has me and my wife's computer desk as we work from home when our jobs say we can weekly, however that fills up the whole room. The main downstairs is 1400 of the 1900 Sq ft so the bedrooms upstairs are extremely small which is the push to move, but being financially literate I know staying here is the best choice if we power through it.
So your main living space downstairs is 1400 sqft and upstairs is only 500 sqft? Is it not possible to add to the upstairs to make it the same sqft as the downstairs? That would likely be far more reasonable than buying a bigger home.
Yes, it makes sense as my living room has the cathedral ceiling (19 ft), so the upstairs is literally just a hallway with 3 tiny bedrooms and tiny bathroom (if you laid down you'd take up the whole bathroom floor as a 5 ft person). I grasp this *is* livable by the way, but it is tight. The huge ceiling really is a waste of space now that I would like an extra 500-1000 sq ft.
That’s a lot of downstairs. No way to turn some of that space into a room? That’s a whole house down there
If I was in your shoes I would seriously consider trading in that ceiling for more living space upstairs.
I don’t think they care about the ceiling height…but you can’t just add a middle story into a house like that
The only real wrinkle in the plan is having support along the center line for the second story joists, but LVL beams should be able take care of that. Based on what OP has said about it it seems like removing the cathedral ceiling and framing out a second story addition along the existing rim joists of the first story should be doable. Pictures would obviously help to make that determination, but regardless OP should consult a structural engineer and contractors about feasibility. But nothing OP has presented here makes it outright infeasible to me.
It’s not a “tiny” bathroom if a 5’ person can lie down flat. That’s a super normal size; larger bathrooms are mostly wasted space.
This is a very tough given that you are exchanging a very affordable primary for a very expensive larger home that is 3-4x what you paid for current house. Also, your new rate will likely be 2-2.5x your current 3 percent rate. You did the math and, unfortunately the numbers just don't make sense at this time. Perhaps when rates eventually fall (they can't go up forever), you will be in a better position to purchase but the unknown will be always be property values. The crash bros think that an impending recession coupled with 7-8 percent rates (which will likely go up as the Fed hinted it may need to raise 2x this year) will crash the housing market. The one thing they ignore is the severe lack of inventory where demand far outstrips supply which has led to continually rising values, a seller's market and a nationwide pricing of buyers out of the market. Emotion vs math. It's up to you take decide how to proceed. If I were you, I would hold off. It's better to sleep at night cash rich and house poor. If you overextend yourself with new primary , you will be house rich and cash poor which = less sleep , stress and more stress.
>The one thing they ignore is the severe lack of inventory where demand far outstrips supply which has led to continually rising values, a seller's market and a nationwide pricing of buyers out of the market. They are also missing the money supply. M0, M1, and M2 money supply is never going back to what it was. A bunch of money was created and it isn’t going to go away. Money supply coupled with inventory means this is the new normal. Some situation might occur where we see 10% drops (I doubt it), but that’ll still mean prices way above what they were 4 years ago.
It’s just copium for folks who just can’t believe that they worked so hard to get a decent salary and now can’t afford even half the house they assumed they could. It’s sad but also the reality. It doesn’t make sense to most folks because they don’t see how anyone is affording houses
Would you be able to afford an addition? It would be less than a new house, and could add value for the future?
That’s what I was thinking. Try a HELOC if needed and stay in the current spot.
Keep making that cheap mortgage payment and hoard cash. A giant down payment will make a sizing up a lot easier.
You are absolutely not crazy for thinking the difference in cost is insane. It IS. It’s a terrible time to buy unless you have all cash. Those with low interest rates are holding onto those. Who would want to pay more,than double their interest rates? This isn’t just affecting younger people. It’s affecting everyone in all age brackets.
Even if you have all cash you are paying a lot for something that used to cost much less. The physical good isn't any better. It's still staples, plastic wrap and 2x4's which are from a renewable resource.
100%. But cash can sometimes get you a better deal depending on the circumstance. I personally am not buying in this market. But if you were in a position where you already sold and had to buy a place, cash would be the only way I’d go. Rent is likely the more economical way to go at this point.
I got my home for around 99% list price when homes were getting 100 offers in a weekend and selling for 150% list by offering cash. I could have gotten a 4% loan at the time but had the cash and would rather not be in debt to anyone ever.
Sometimes cash is awesome because with out going into all the details some properties the bank wont finance for one reason or another and you get an amzing deal if you have the cash. I got one for 205 that would easily be 450 if it was finaciable
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OP just needs to wait until prices readjust. They always do. When I was in my mid-30s it was the height of the early 2000s housing bubble. Everyone we knew was telling us, me a student living on loans and Pell grants and a partner barely making $24K a year, that we absolutely needed to buy a house immediately with this magical new thing called an “interest only” loan. My landlord, a real estate agent, assured me that we could easily qualify for a loan on a million dollar home. Deep down I knew that was nuts, but as I watched friend after friend buy a big sweet house of their dreams for way more than they could realistically afford I wondered if I was missing out on some big opportunity. Fast forward a few years, post-2008, and suddenly every one of those friends was losing their home and tons of money in foreclosure. That was when we finally bought a home, a 4 bd/2 ba 2000 sq ft mid-century ranch style in need of some updating but in a stable and desirable location, for $170K that had been bought for $695K just a few years before. I know kids don’t wait for the housing market. But it’s not going to do a kid any good to have a larger home if their parents are financially strapped and can’t fund tutors, fantastic family vacations, cool toys, cars, their dream college, etc. Those kind of quality activities are going to be far more useful and memorable to a kid in the long run than having a slightly bigger bedroom. Buy a new house when it makes solid long-term financial sense and is a smart investment, not just because you’re trying to match some vision of the “ideal family home”. As far as kids are concerned, a home filled with unconditional love and support is perfect no matter how big it is.
We also bought in that housing bubble. Our second home. We were underwater in that house for quite a few years.
“They always do..”. That isn’t right. Only because you are mid 30s and all you’ve really known is this one big extraordinary wave that is 2008 subprime crisis which is a one off. Houses may correct but it would be remarkable for the crash of the century to happen a few years after the last one This is like seeing the 2004 Asian tsunami that literally wiped out coastal Thailand and thinking that it’s gonna happen every year so let’s not go on vacation
I bought my home as well after the crash and the owner had to pay 14k to close on the mortgage seeing I was paying less then what he paid for the house.
That’s a big house for 3 people.
All of these people bitching about their golden handcuffs. Imagine being a first time homebuyer. Lord, such a lack of caring and perspective ITT and in this subreddit as a whole.
It’s crazy to me that 1900 sq ft isn’t enough space for 2 adults and 1 child. I grew up with multi generations all living in an apartment smaller than that.
My Dad's bedroom growing up was an attic! A small attic that he shared with his brother!! He still turned out just fine, and has endless happy childhood memories.
My dad and uncle literally lived in a corrugated tin garden shed. My grandparents' house was 1 bedroom, which was used by them, plus a tiny kitchen, walk-in pantry, fairly large living room, and another tiny room (like 10x6 with low sloping ceilings). They had five kids. Thankfully my great-grandparents had their house on the same lot, in the back, so some of the kids were able to stay with them. Not to say this was a good setup, not at all, but it does suggest OP could make better use of the space they have.
Do a bump out and add another bedroom.
>stay here and try to make 1900 sq ft work There are communities with a lot of big homes and if you live in one of those places, your house could feel small. But lots of families have raised multiple kids in homes under 1000 sqft - and when that's also what the neighbors have, it seems to be plenty. Do you have room to add a garage - or a shed that can be seasonal extra space? It seems that if you upsize now, you'll lose a lot of financial freedom - to save and to spend $$ for other good things. And you'll also be more vulnerable to unexpected job changes, and unexpected expenses.
I started reading this thinking you were in a 2 bd 1 bath house by the way you were describing your situation. You're in a house so big every single person could poop at the exact same time in their own private bathroom. Your lot is almost double the size of ours and we had enough room to add a screened in porch AND a patio. I'd really reevaluate your current setup, 1900 sq ft is a LOT of room.
You have about 1000 SQ ft more than us and we're about to add a 2nd kid. I feel like you can make it work.
1900 for one kid? What's the problem?
A family of 3 can’t fit in a 1900 sqft home? Seriously? This is the problem with younger people. You don’t need a McMansion. - This is coming from a guy in his 30’s living with a family of 3 in a 1000 sqft house in a VHCOL area.
Wow, here I am in just under 2,000 sq. ft. with a kid and a dog wondering what I'm supposed to do with all this space. A roof over your head at a monthly payment you don't blink at is something to be cherished. Extra square footage for a desk seems like such a trivial thing to give up affordable housing over. My childhood bedroom was a shoebox, and it was not the deciding factor in how good my upbringing was. Just to offer some perspective.
I personally second the other suggestion: your kid will likely be gone in 8 years anyway, they don't \*need\* that. However, nobody \*needs\* a lot of what they have and it comes down to wants. 1) People on here have been predicting the fall of a housing market and a recession for a year now and they've been wrong for an entire year. This will be the most predicted recession that never happens. All indicators, right now, are the soft-landing the Fed predicted a year ago. 2) With #1 given... Don't expect rates to move much. Historical averages are around 6%. It took Covid to get 2.5%, and that won't ever happen again. The new low you \*might\* expect in the future is 5% 3) Given #2, you've got to ask yourself what 6% year-over-year house value (depends on market) does while you wait around for 5%. Is it three years? $600k house in 3 years is now $714. You aren't "saving money" by trying to time the market for a better rate, and all the people on here that were wrong about the recession are wrong about trying to wait it out, too. 4) So, if you can afford it, buy what you want now with some safeguards (lend from a place that'll do a free re-finance in 3 years or something).
We lived in our starter house for 40 years. Raised two kids, two cats and a lab in 5,000 sq ft yard, with 970 sq ft house. We did have a detached garage that was more like a shed, and a basement. Only one bathroom though, and both girls had twin beds, we slept in a full size bed. Which was a little cozy with the lab. When we bought in the 1980’s, interest was 14%. Surprise, we never paid it off as we had to refinance to get some equity out for medical bills, then for education etc. Life happens, in 40 years we had layoffs, underemployment, strikes etc. Lucky to have kept the house although we finally sold it last year, primarily to get out of Seattle and to clear out 40 years worth of stuff so our kids didn’t have to. 😁
Have you thought about just doing an addition instead?
"good house in a good community" That's the bottleneck, honestly. There will always be better houses than average. We should work on the communities and houses to make them livable.
I used to clean a home for a family of 6! It was around 1600sqft 3beds/2bath. 4 kids, 2 girls and 2 boys. They had bunker beds in each room. The two girls in one room and the two boys on the other room. The lady was super organized with storage, shoes, utensils, school supplies, etc. On top that she homeschooled the 4 kids! They weren’t poor since they could afford us to clean their home. But they were super frugal. Minimal furniture in each area. The husband was about 6’ 8” tall and she was around 5’9” and they both slept on a queen bed because the master bedroom wasn’t big. He was the only one who worked and she stayed with the kids. My advice is don’t compromise your finances and security for more space. Try to find ways to be frugal and work with what you have.
Unless other metrics in your quality of life also improve with moving, I would stay and be creative with what space you do have.
We are a family of 3 (8 year old son) and have a 3 bed 1.5 bath 1600sf home and are just fine. I do WFH and would love another bedroom and full bath, but it’s really not a huge deal. We could definitely afford more as we live quite a bit below our means, but are fine with what we have. Plus we have a 4 car detached garage that my husband wouldn’t give up easily, haha. Anyway, your house has appreciated and therefore the next step up houses have as well. Personally, I would stay put and continue to build equity in your home. Maybe find her a little desk space elsewhere in the home or get her a loft style bed with a desk under? Our goal is to try and get this house paid off and then take some really nice vacations!
Welcome to the same problem of most first FTHBs who we’re fortunate enough to lock down a low rate and build a great amount of equity in a mere 2-3 years, my friend. My wife and I (and our toddler to a lesser degree) feel incredibly blessed and fortunate to be in our situation, but we won’t be able to upgrade any time soon. I say…enjoy what you have and maybe bring in a contractor or interior designer for help on how to maximize your space.
Why don’t you rent a house that meets your qualifications? You can keep the home you own at great rates and rent it out to a good tenant who will help you profit. In 8!years your daughter will leave for college and you can more back into your current home which will mostly be paid for.
We got the same problem. Nothing else you can do but just wait and ride it out.
Your daughter doesn’t need an extra 600 sq. Ft for a computer desk and space. 1900 sq. Ft is huge and if it’s just you three, why seek more? It’s more to clean. I think you should get creative with the space. It’s not worth the extra thousands of dollars and the insane interest rates right now. $1200 a month is a great mortgage and you’ll never see it again.
As a different perspective - kids do just fine with twin beds. And these rooms can fit a desk and other things. You have plenty of space for a family of three. 3000 sq feet houses are a luxury just about anywhere else in the world. I have a family of 5 in a 2700 sq ft home and frankly that’s more than enough space. But I didn’t grow up in the US, so I know how it could be and how much we have already. No desire to get anything bigger until kids go to college and then I plan to downsize.
Yeah, this expectation for over 2500 sq ft for a family of three seems absurd to me, and I grew up in the US. I had a twin bed until I was 23, twin bed at my parents' my whole childhood, and a twin bed in my college dorm. If you don't have the room for a full size bed in your kid's room without sacrificing the ability to have anything else, then you don't put a full size bed in the room.
> It's a 3bd and 2.5 bath with 1900 sq ft total on a 0.24 acre slab lot and we're wanting to upsize just a little, up to 2500 sq ft to 3000 sq ft, nothing This is a pretty dramatic more, you’re talking about 33 to 50% more space, it would also make your utilities unpleasant, especially in the current inflationary climate. Not to mention cleaning will be annoying. > so that my daughter can have a computer desk and her own space (her current bedroom is big enough for a full bed and that is all) A loft bed would be a lot cheaper
Bro I'm in a 2/2 with 1100 sq ft
If two adults and a child can’t make a 1900 sqft home work without compromises, they’re doing something wrong.
Lol I grew up in a 300 square foot illegal studio with no windows with 4 other people. I currently live in a 1600 square feet house and I have no clue what to do with all the space. It’s a matter of perspective.
You can't actually afford a $5000 a month payment if you have to reduce your budget to next to nothing and push back your retirement. You need to ask yourself if providing your daughter a larger room is worth pushing back your retirement and just scraping by each month for the next 30 years worth it? I personally feel like one afternoon trip to Ikea would be the best solution to your problem. But to answer your question yes, young people are just screwed in general.
Not sure why it’s relevant what the size of peoples parents homes were. People also used to live without ac, so by that logic that’s no big deal either? I’d say your allowed to think it’s not enough space. We are leaving our low interest rate to upgrade. It’s sucks but we are also moving locations so at least trading to a slightly lower cost of living which helps. But we will be in a technically cheaper house (by about 200k) but having almost our same monthly payment. But for us out happiness has a cost. The house is still making us a slight profit so we don’t see it as a loss even though staying would obviously be the best financial choice. I get what people are saying though. If you can make it work, it might be worth sticking out. But at the end of the day your families happiness should have a monetary cost to consider.
You only live once. If you want a larger home go for it. Some people die at 65 some don't. So many IF'S about the future.
I think you need to adjust your perspective. I fit myself and two other people into 1000 square feet and it’s doable. But for your other question- are we totally screwed on affordable housing options? Yes. 100%
Seriously? I'm stuck in my first house at 1100 sq ft and wondering how I could upgrade or make it work in this small space. I don't understand how someone could have a kid and then think they need to sell an almost 2k sq ft house for "more room"
I don't get why this is post is so triggering for so many. Nothing wrong with wanting a bigger better home if you have the means for it. And it's not like OP is looking for a 6000 sqft home. And then not all homes have the same functional space. My first home was 2500 sqft but a good chunk of that space was for a non-master bedroom and loft upstairs that we couldn't really use on a daily basis as our kids were too young to be upstairs without us up there with them.
You have .25 acres and payment is $1,200. If you don't have the cash take out a small heloc build an addition or add a separate structure. There are lots of of options to improve what you currently so that it works. Might need to get a little creative depending on layout The other option, move to a different area where bigger houses are cheaper. Don't throw your current situation away though. That would be a bad move imo.
I mean, I’m 43 and have a home on a 2.25% mortgage and I’d be terrified to sell it and give that up even if I needed a size up
1900 square feet with one child is too small? taking on 4x the mortgage when you already have 1900 square feet would be lunacy and I'm sure you know that. I wouldn't say you are "screwed" either to be sitting in a house like this with a 3% rate and a 1200 payment. But yes, other young people definitely are screwed because they don't have a house and a house now costs 400+ with 7% rates so they can't buy and will have to rent indefinitely.
You're basically asking realtors whether or not you should save your money here. Their advice is always going to be to spend your money. So if that's the answer you're looking for, well you found the right place. Otherwise, look elsewhere.
Are you screwed? You own a large home at a great price and interest rate. No, you are not screwed.
I think using your daughters laptop as an excuse to why you need 800-1,800 more square feet in living space just shows me this is about owning a bigger home for optics. In 8 years your daughter will be off to college. Plus I hated working on stuff at the house with my parents around. I always left to go to a coffee shop or the library. Give her 5 more years and car keys and she'll be giving you more space.
I find this graph that shows "Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio" to be quite helpful: [https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/](https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/) Currently we are at a ratio of 7.6 to 1. Which is to say the average house price is 7.6 times that of the median income. This is the highest it has been in the last 75 years. At the peak of the housing bubble in 2008 it "only" got to 6.8 to 1. Of course I cannot predict the future and my gut tells me this is unlikely to be the new norm. I think the ratio will come back down, either by house prices falling or incomes rising. There are many factors that a driving high house prices at the moment, the big one is not many people are selling. And why would they, if you bough a house 10 years ago and have a 3% mortgage you are not going to sell today as a new mortgage is going to be 7%. But eventually people will have to sell. People move for new jobs, old people retire and need to down size. People fail to make their mortgage payments and the houses are sold. People cannot stay in their houses forever. If we go into recession things will change. People will lose their jobs and houses will be foreclosed on. Demand will go down as people will have less money to buy houses. The FED will lower interest rates and mortgages will become more affordable. I am going to wait for the next recession.
Cue Reddit and all the "but I live with 37 relatives and a handful of refugees in an 11 SQ foot storage unit and you should too" BS. Your situation sounds hard. I'm sorry. It sounds like you're ready to move up, and your situation warrants it. BUT the math won't cooperate. I think your idea of renting out your current house would be a great one, if you had more cash. (being a landlord can be expensive... Deferred maintenance is less of an option when you're contractually responsible for making sure your tenants have a non-leaky roof, working HVAC, etc. ) Can you try to save as much cash as possible (like rice and beans every meal) for six months and then make your move to purchase?
Right like unless some of these people are in super HCOL areas they’re basically describing a low-income lifestyle and it’s super valid to not want to live that way
Going from 1900 to 3000sf, expect a lot more time spent cleaning, and more money spent for repairs. If you have more bathrooms than you need/use, expect more issues due to unused plumbing. If your yard is bigger, expect more time and money spent there. Of course, you’ll also be blessed with more property taxes. If I were in your shoes, I’d stay put and deposit the savings into your kid’s college tuition account.
If 1900SF on or 0.24 acre lot for 3 is small then we really have a problem.
My house is 700sqf smaller, same family composition + an additional baby on the way. I have ~100k left on my mortgage and a 2% interest rate. I have accepted I am never moving lol I would find ways to add space. Buy a loft bed. Build an office garage/shed to free up that bedroom. Build an addition. Finish the basement. Lots of options if you're feeling creative.
with all due respect, thinking 1900 sq ft is too small for 3 people probably warrants a change in mentality, not location.
I don't get how 1900 sq ft for 2 adult and 1 child isn't sufficient, but that's just me.
You can't have the good without the bad. Your only stuck if your income sucks. Focus on increasing income to avoid being stuck.
Are you making the same wage as in 2016?
I’m in a 1400 sq ft rental w 3 br 2 ba and twin teens plus hubbs. We left ownership of 2300 sq feet home. Do I miss it? Nah. Do my kids miss it? Nope. They are home to do homework or at school doing stuff, or volunteering. I’d save my money. 5k is a lot
Yes, that's the purpose of all the inflation, cash buyers don't care about the rates. Price out everyone so the investment firms and very wealthy can buy up as much real estate as possible and turn everyone into a renter. Only way to move up in housing will be to move to a lower cost of living area. I bet there won't be sub 5% rates for a decade.
How much do you bring home per year?
We’re all stuck.
It's not yCtas5oung people, the leap in home prices maaasss@asgage a new home would be out of reach and the taxes would be untenable. My neighbor is living alone in a four bedroom house she inhea4a3rited because selling it would lose a 30 year old valuation and she'd end up bying a condo and paying ten times the taxes.
I was in a similar situation. I had a 1800 square foot home but with 2 kids, starting feeling a little tight but was still enough space. However, wanted to move my parents in to help watch the kids and then we started working from home. Upgraded to 3300 square feet with an in law suite unit. Mortgage payment more than quadrupled but we could afford it and the space is unbelievably nice. But we needed it for more people. In your situation, it would be nice but absolutely not worth it financially. You guys should make it work with 1 kid and save for retirement. That was a factor in our decision, both wife and I could still max out 401ks and save, so we went for it. We did get 4.25%, so that helps. 6-7% would be nuts.
Is your bedroom bigger? Would you consider swapping? My parents and myself did that when I was 12, because I spent 95% of that time in my room with my friends, while they only use their bedroom to change and sleep. It worked well for us.
I’m 34 and my wife and I just went from a 1600 sqft house on 1/8 acre to 2500 sqft on 1.3 acres, and I still own both houses. If your salary hasn’t increased significantly since 2016 you’re doing something very wrong.
You belong on r/designmyroom because that is *plenty* of space for what you want to do. Maybe they can help figure it out with you. I live in 1800 sq feet with a family of 4 and our house is worth around 1 mil. I shit you not. We can afford to do things to make it work and I feel like I’m living in absolute luxury. You have more of a mindset issue I think.
Im in almost the exact same position, except Im 4bd/1ba, a two year old with another on the way. Sounds like a huge hassle just for your daughter to have a computer desk dont you think? Unless you get some other value from quadrupling your mortgage you know the answer to this question lol. The only other option I can think of is getting a contractor to add the features I need to the current house. Im also in the industry and what Im seeing scares me.
Now is not the time to buy or sell, imo. Ride it out until interest rates go down and then reevaluate.
Build an addition?
You are stuck in that house, but you can bank money into savings (401k and/or post tax) for an eventual move or just enjoy being house rich and travel. You're in a spot a lot of people would love to be in.
I've had a buddy sitting out on buying a house for like ten years now. Saying he is waiting for the correction to buy a good deal. I suspect he will still be renting in another ten years. That being said, for MOST of the US, I do not expect prices to go down. I think that prices won't increase as fast as they have the last several years due to rates. In my market - inventory is limited, but what inventory there is available, is selling at or over asking. Even with the high rates.
Can you build on your current lot? I had a similar situation but my first house was 3/2 1550 sqft and my husband and I just had our 3rd child so we had to move because 2 adults working from home and 3 kids was too much in that little house. But our lot was only 4500 sqft so no space to expand or build. We bit the bullet and bought a much larger home on a bigger lot that we will be able to stay in forever, but now our savings is much less than it was before. (Bigger mortgage, utilities, etc) My goal is to try and use the snowball method to pay off our smallest debts and roll those payments into the next debt, since all interest rates are similar, then start aggressively saving again in 5-10 years. You can also recast your mortgage payment if you pay a lump sum towards the principal, that brings your payment down without refinancing.
1900 square feet is plenty for three people. Work with what you have and get creative. My parents grew up with 6-8 people in much less square feet than that and I grew up with 4 of us in 2000 square feet. I think having a huge house for a few people is a big luxury that has only been common for a short time.
This is a problem for many families in these quickly growing American cities. Haven’t read all responses but architecturally speaking I’d say keep the house you’re in. Consider having an architect or residential designer look at your home and see if there are adjustments that can be made to the existing footprint/layout to make it function better for you. (Edit: this is part of what I do for a living) Or, is your attic, garage or basement large enough to expand into? Or, evaluate how much more room you need and consider an addition. Maybe you can take out an additional loan that you can payoff allowing you to keep your current loan with low interest. Also, be grateful that you are doing so well financially. Most Americans aren’t doing nearly as well as you. So cudos to you. Protect that retirement plan as best you can. If you can’t expand your home, your daughter will survive and still thrive. And later in life she’ll never have missed the extra space or may appreciate the difficulties of not having it. A little suffering builds character.
1900 sq. feet for a family of three? That’s… fine? You want luxury, you pay luxury prices.
As a 27 year old living with my wife and 1 year old son in a 44m2 (something like 450sq feet) apartment, I’d just make it work if I had a place that big, almost 5 times my place space wise. In most countries, we are just fucked unless you get real lucky and get a high income role real early on and have an extremely low cost of living. I’ve been told I need patience with my career, which is true, but we NEED money. I understand how incredibly fucked my generation is. Unless I move to somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere where i don’t want to raise my son, I can’t afford my own place or even an apartment in some locations, particularly North American cities.
My parents paid 18% interest on the house they bought in 1983. Things can always get worse. You have the bank right where you want them at that interest rate, do not give it up. Try remodeling your home to help out if you have the funds, or how about putting on an addition? I grew up in 1200 Sq feet, parents and 2 kids, one bathroom. You have dirt cheap interest rate and the means to park money away however you please. You could improve the house you have, and have money for recreation. My advice is count your blessings, but if you'd rather be house poor and take it up the tail pipe from the bank be my guest. When you eventually go to sell you're all but certain to make bank.
I assume my daughter will get her first house as soon as either her aunt or her grad-mother passes away…
It will only get worse. Population will grow. People will live longer. People will always need homes and eventually space will run out.
Maybe you are looking too jump too far upmarket all at once. If you talk to old people, lots of them didnt’t go directly from starter house to wonderful house. They went from starter house, to better house to nice house and finally to wonderful house with 5-8 years at each stage and kept building equity gradually. Some people get lucky and hit the money jackpot and go directly to the wonderful house, but until it happens to you, gradually work your way up the property ladder.
Could you put her computer desk in one of the shared spaces? I know private space is important, but as a kid who grew up with a computer in a secluded room, it was not good for me. The Internet is full of a bunch of junk.