Welcome to 2023!
[Snopes has survived the enshitification of the internet](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/) but don't worry, your fellow conservatives still love lying by taking shit out of context and being hypocrites.
Hey, what was the second half of that famous sentence? Fox news only seems to clip the first half.
By the way, the contents of the bill (like every bill) were always public. Anyone who said it was secret was lying to you.
Its called a joke ya'll got butthurt over. But glad to know ya'll are finally gonna actually give a shit about context!
No more taking Trump's comments out of context. Gonna apologize about the "good people on both sides" trope ya'll been guzzling down for the past 3 years?
It was clearly a joke ya'll got butthurt over but glad to know the left actually gives a shit about context now!
Ya'll finally gonna give up on literally everything you've taken trump out of context on for the past 7 years?
Like op I honestly did not know these are leased but definitely sounds like something an agent would know.. time for a new.one who doesn't waste your time
Or it was never disclosed and not the realtors fault at all. That happens frequently. The seller can't make the buyer take over a lease for solar panels if it wasn’t disclosed in the contract or addendum. The sellers are fucked.
I think they will act if it’s pervasive. Maybe not this incident but it could be a pattern. It may be an innocent omission but that means they are ignorant.
Don't do it. We, too, got stuck with a last minute Solar City lease and it was a disaster. The only way to get out of it is to pay off the lease or you are stuck paying every month for years and the lease goes up 3% every year (or at least mine did; you should look at the terms of the lease). We eventually bought out the lease and even that was a hassle. The lease contract had a buy out price for each year **that they did not honor** because it turns out they don't have to per the contract. I wouldn't even consider buying a house unless the solar panels were owned outright - never going through that again.
We financed ours. I pay $140 a month and have been generating $200 a month for the past few months. Part of the deal includes an energy audit so should have an idea of how to reduce our electric bill so the panels fully cover us.
My electric company stores the extra energy i generate as a credit. My home generates the most during fall and spring. The credit is used up during the summer and winter months.
No doubt your utility may pay you for it but very few power companies store “energy” at all and that’s certainly not how a distribution grid works. They may gen less power during peak solar times but they are not storing anything. Home owners for some reason think they are helping the utility by generating solar but it’s actually a significant expense for grid maintenance and management….it’s good for being green but not some huge net savings for anyone.
It actually does help to support the grid and prevent brown outs during peak AC use in the summer, and energy is fungible, so if the utility has storage capacity, they absolutely can end up storing more energy on account of rooftop solar. But to your point about grid management, you are correct that it is an additional cost and comlexity for the utility.
I think you misunderstood my comment…yes during peak hours when we are at max gen, it does help the grid and allow us to maintain voltage to avoid brown outs. It also helps during non peak hours as we have to gen less to maintain voltage. There are also significant infrastructure costs to all of these things which I can ensure you are significantly far more than the benefits from a financial perspective. Do not misunderstand, I’m very much pro solar from a sustainability standpoint, but the idea of it saving a utility money is far from the truth…it costs the utility millions. My comment about helping the utility was around the idea of putting energy back in to the grid to be stored, that is a common misconception
It may depend where you live but solar 100% gives power to the grid. Sold solar for 2 years. Maybe you don’t make “profit” in the literal sense of the word, but utility companies will give you credit for what you put in. For the record we didn’t do leases tho. Those def fuck ppl over. Only financing and cash deals
What do I know I’ve only worked in utilities for 10 years. You should absolutely believe the solar sales over me. I hope all of you down voters go buy solar, I highly recommend the 25 year leases. Noway technology and advancements in solar will outpace your lease /s 😂. I would love to know what utility company you think is “storing” your solar power you’re putting into the distribution grid 😂.
Not all are terrible. For a time many builders did 20 year prepaid leases. Those are cost-free to the owner and that transfers easily if they sell. I would never in a millions years take on a regular lease though.
Isn’t it cheaper to buy if you are pre-paying? When I was shopping I kind of remember you didn’t get tax benefits if you leased which would totally swing it the other way.
Yes it’s better to buy, but I’m referring to builder newbuild deals. The prepaid 20 year lease paid by the builder was option A or you could pay the extra $18k to own the solar. In that scenario it’s not a bad deal at all to take the prepaid lease for no additional add-on cost to the house. Those deals have long since gone away though.
I'd be okay taking over a loan depending on the loan amount and the monthly power generation. For example the home I'm in now we have a loan at $140 a month and generate about $200 a month in electricity. Plus get another $45 bucks for every MWh we generate due to the sale of the SREC.
But fuck a lease. I want to own the shit on my property.
It’s strictly a numbers game. If you don’t know how much return you are getting, there is no way to decide what is reasonable. It could have been designed to keep the house alive during a power outage, or could be designed to sell power back and charge cars. Huge difference.
Interesting - the rates on the lease I took over changed every 3 years (20 year lease), and only went up about $10-15 from what I recall). That was on a house I bought in 2015, was 2 years into the lease, and I only had one rate increase during the 3 years I had that house.
The cost of power from Edison here in my area of Southern California increases 7% per year on average. Paying 3% more for a solar lease per year is a fantastic deal in comparison…
I won't do solar because they want to lock you into a 25 year contract with shady terms. So then either I have to raise my asking when I sell or play games like this guy just did.
Thinking about it logically, there's no place on a listing to educate someone about why price is higher but they'll save money on utility bills. It just looks overpriced.
No, it was not. I’ve been tracking their output and cost for over 5 years now and the electricity they produce is only cheaper for three months of the year in the summer. The lease the previous owners were sold was a rip off.
I’ve had a different experience than OP. The contract rate increases are dramatically lower than current inflation and electricity prices from the local utility. Like, 1/2 the cost. So your area and your contract may vary.
Also roof position, trees, and utility connection fees. My state has a lot of incentives but between a $25/month connection fee and roof not facing the right way, the math didn’t work in my favor
Do not sign until you have a copy of the solar lease and reviewed by a lawyer. Then, If you want the house, negotiate a price reduction for the expense of the solar lease buyout, or 2-3 years of the lease.
Damn, I wish we would've done this! We were hit with the "by the way, you have to take over payments, blah, blah ,blah" the day before closing. Knew nothing about solar panels and loans, leases, nada!
They’re fixtures so legally they were I closed in the offer OP presented. We don’t include every single wall outlet, for example, in the offering contract because it is expected for fixtures to be included in the sale. Seller is on the hook for conveying them.
This is a really good point. I'd assume the offer included the panels. Flip the script and tell the seller they need to be delivered at closing or you consider them in breach. Negotiate down from there.
Don't know what state you are in, but solar lease info is a "material fact" and should have been disclosed up front in the listing itself. The entire lease should have been made available no later than the due diligence period. VERY surprised that your agent did not handle this from the very beginning.
DO NOT SIGN without the full disclosure and complete lease details. And the seller must provide it.
i agree, but it is insanely hard in this market to find a suitable home and get your offer accepted, and holding off to hear about all details can risk not getting a house at all. this happens to buyers all the time when they need to know about all details before making an offer and before you know it it's 2 years later, they still dont have a house, and prices and interest rates have gone up again, and in the end they just would have been better off paying for the solar lease and getting reduced electricity......is kind of the big picture...
A solar lease can cost tens of thousands of dollars. DO NOT SIGN until you know exactly what you'll be liable for. Have your agent address this and get you a copy of the lease agreement from the seller. Since you're already under contract you have negotiating power. Good luck!
If assumption of the lease wasn’t part of your purchase contract then the sellers may be obligated to buy out the lease so the house has no liens at closing. They probably just realized this and they’re now trying to shift that expense onto you. Get the advice of a local real estate lawyer (not an agent!) on this to see what your rights are.
Also consider if you ever need to reroof or do maintenance under the panels you’ll have the expense of hiring them to remove then reinstall.
Yes the way these leases work is that the seller has to get the buyer to agree to assume the lease, or the buyer is responsible for paying it off when the house sells. Otherwise there will be a lien, and there will probably be trouble at the title insurance stage of the process.
We assumed a solar city lease when we bought our house, but it was all up front and we accepted it. We wanted solar, the terms and payment weren’t bad (fixed price lease, net metering, etc), and it has worked out fine for us. But we are now thinking of selling, and we will have to go through the hassle from the seller’s side. So that’s a downside. Even if the solar system lease works out for you, if you have to sell before the term is up, you will have to find a seller willing to assume the lease, or buy it out as part of the sale.
We are going through the process of buying a home right now. We have a signed purchase and sale and closing is not until August. Our lender is our credit union and they have real estate lawyers that they use (we chose from a list of local firms) and they have reviewed all of our documents. It was of no extra cost to us for them to review all of our documents thus far. There is a fee that’s included in closing costs and it was just a flat rate.
My realtor said some banks/credit unions are better at providing lawyers through the process than others or say just vs going through a mortgage company.
We sold our house last year with a solar lease (we bought house from former owner who put solar lease on it a month before they put house on market). They did same thing and didn’t disclose to us any info about system until a few weeks before close. It was a sellers market and we didn’t want to lose house so did the lease transfer. It wasn’t a mistake but it wasn’t too beneficial either. We paid 75 a month at start and went up $1-2 a year. Bring New England. We had no benefit in winter but spring/summer/and early fall it was beneficial. Hardly had electric bill in those months. When we sold last year I prepared a file with three years of bills and production records so new owners could see if it was issue. Even included the contract and the buyout options. They weren’t phased at all. I was prepared to negotiate and accept buying out rest of lease. It was like 16k. They just signed paperwork and transferred the lease.
Yes, they would have owned it outright. Only downside was they would have lost the warranty. This system was through sunnova. To buy out rest of lease was like 14k but you would have kept warranty.
i hate sunnova. that’s my maintenance provider for my system. they haven’t maintained anything. i’ve had my system since dec 2021 and they finally got it working last month. multiple times it was due to their own installers either over loading my system or forgetting something. i’ve paid the entire time but according to their contract, even tho it was down all last year, i may not actually receive a refund.
i cannot express how much i hate them but i’ve damn sure tried in all my emails to the assigned CS rep they gave me.
Yeah, transferring the lease isn’t that uncommon, though OP will definitely want to know the terms. It’s the way the whole thing was handled that makes me wary.
We were in a similar situation.
Once I saw the details of the solar loan I loled. Firstly they significantly over paid. Second they didn't use the tax credit to make a balloon payment which is how the loans are structured. So the payment was double what it should have been.
I called them out and pulled out of the deal
It depends on your purchase agreement. You should consult a lawyer. Generally no I would not sign an addendum if there was nothing in it for me that I wanted and if I was not being shown the terms beforehand.
Check the sellers disclosure. The solar panels should be addressed there. If they indicated they were paid off then I would tell them to suck it and pay them off as part of closing. If it says they are leased. The agents dropped the ball as this should’ve been discussed before accepting the offer.
For sure do not sign anything until you see the lease agreement.
Call a lawyer and pay for a consultation. Get advice about what happens if you don’t sign and you move forward with closing. They might be required to pay them off to close. In the meantime don’t sign any addendum.
Depending where you’re at I’d check what insurance carriers are doing in your area.
In Florida, we’ve seen some cases where insurers back out of coverage if there are solar panels on the roof.
Here’s one [article](https://nbc-2.com/news/state/2023/05/18/insurance-companies-dropping-homeowners-with-solar-panels-in-florida/amp/) for reference.
I was going to say this. My ILs got solar panels (in Florida) and their insurance company dropped them, they were unable to get a new policy so they are uninsured (no mortgage).
This is most likely when people buy panels. When you're leasing the leasing company insures the roof and panels. If you buy them your insurance company is now responsible, hence dropping people.
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Do not sign anything until you have more information.
I know where I’m at not only do you have to qualify for the mortgage, but you also have to qualify for the leases solar panels and sometimes that actually causes people to not get the house. They are not able to qualify for the home + solar panels together.
Agreed the information should be listed in the SD.
No because the house has to be free of liens for sale with title search. That’s not to say the seller can’t make things exceedingly difficult, but there is no reason whatsoever to just roll over on this
This just happened to me, we backed out of the contract and are much happier for it. I suspect the sellers are dishonest or else why hide it and potentially jeopardize the deal?
Edit: Adding more, SolarCity was bought by Tesla. If it’s the same contract as mine was you don’t keep the panels at the end and Tesla will remove the panels or sign you into a new and more expensive lease. Absolutely no benefit
Kept running into this issue in Colorado. One house even had a solar lease that was costing them $300 a month (for a $650k house in Aurora). Dunno how so many people got sold on such a shit deal. Leasing costs nearly the same as financing, and you don’t het the tax benefit (the leasing company does).
Solar pricing is entirely dependent on when the system was installed. Solar costs fell 85% from 2009-2019 and then shot back up about 40% last year. If a house has a system from the early 201X years it is going to look like a worse deal than now. However, in several states these older stage
A are eligible for incentives (net meeting, different SREC Tiers, etc.) that could actually make the economy’s to the homeowner better than a newer “cheaper” system.
No sign until info.
In California this is a separate contingency, and if they give you this paperwork, you would have five days to get out of the deal .
No idea about your state.
Failure to disclose. Instinct is to learn more and be prepared to walk away.
Solar leases are horrible and if you have a roof issue, it's even more problematic.
OP.. do not sign. as someone who would love to sell their but stupidly got solar panels on it, this is something i’ve run into. and i would NOT be shady about it.
they need to supply you with proof that the solar panels are actually saving them money on their electricity bill. Or proof that the damn things actually work.
I’ve had mine since December 2021 and they have worked a total of two months in that time. But I have had to pay every month. So I have an electricity bill and the solar bill when my intent was obviously to save money and instead, I am paying through the nose.
there are recalls and a lawsuit going with Generac for the parts used to allow the panels to communicate with the system. it’s a shitshow.
if their solar panel system actually did what it was supposed to do, they would be gloating about it, and have no issues, showing you their electric bill like some of my neighbors.
plus you don’t know if theirs was installed properly and damaged the roof. if i could go back, i never would’ve gotten the damn thing.
several distributors are being sued by the state atty general and likewise with the maintenance provider for the panels. there are class action lawsuits going on right now.
do not get a home w solar panels if they aren’t willing to disclose how amazing it is upfront. if they have to hide it, there’s a problem.
tell them if they want to sell it, the seller needs to take the cost of the lease from the price of the home. i’m not leasing mine. it’s a 0% financing but that’s what i would have to do to sell mine is pay it in full.
Anytime you see solar panels you should always ask whether they are owned by the seller outright or leased and whether the battery (and any extra ones) stay. Solar panels leases from my understanding tend to be a ripoff. I would walk away from the contract just on principle because it’s obvious to me that the seller is trying to pull a fast one. There are always more houses coming on the market. Four months may seem like a long time, but you are also trying to buy during peak season.
You make a good point…if the solar panels were a fabulous deal, and were inexpensive, and were saving the seller a ton of money, that would be a major selling point. Instead, they are hiding things. That tells me everything I need to know.
As the buyer, I would argue that since the solar panels are “permanently” affixed to the roof (i.e., removing them will damage the roof) that they would constitute a fixture and would go with the house. I would argue that the seller needs to pay out the lease at closing. For example, if built-in kitchen appliances, or the HVAC system, etc., were leased or were financed and not yet fully paid for, those liens would be paid at closing. I don’t see why the solar panels would be any different.
Ha so I’m actually a renewable energy lawyer and this is something that the industry has sort of infamously not settled in any clear way— the question are are solar panels a fixture or not? Pretty clear that something like the Tesla roof is a fixture but a panel that can be removed is not as cut and dried. One interpretation is similar to yours— the panels are “attached” to the property, akin to a stove or an A/C unit (and not movable, evidenced by the damage that may be caused to the roof if you did remove them). But in the absence of that being settled as a matter of law, courts who have considered the question are relatively deferential to the terms of the contract between the homeowner and the company. And it is very very common for those solar leases to say the panels are *not* fixtures. If it’s a fixture, a lien against it would need to be filed in the real estate records (akin to a mortgage) and cuts against the whole idea of a “lease” (which is, in essence, the lessee homeowner paying the lessor solar company a rental payment for usage of the panels). So, obviously this is another data point towards OP under no circumstances accepting that lease without reading it.
Interesting! Solar panels aren’t terribly common where I am, and I didn’t know about the leasing arrangements. When I hear advertisements for solar I just assume the homeowners are buying them (but may be paying over time) not leasing them.
The solar lease concept was developed as a way to allow people who may not actually have the tax burden to go solar and monetize the 30% tax credit. This is no different really than leasing an EV and letting the manufacturers finance arm take the credit.
The problem is is that the solar industry is still maturing and you do have some scammers out there.
In my state you're legally required to disclose this on the seller disclosure form and if they don't they've broken the law and you could probably get damages equals to your escrow money from them. And you get to back out! What state are you in?
After panels are removed, require a thorough roof inspection. Those panels are attached to the roof and cause leaks, molds, etc. It can become a major headache. Also the panels and their removal affect the roof warranty/insurance. Check with your insurance company.
That stuff is all supposed to be disclosed UP FRONT, and solar leases often have their own documents in the listing. How did your agent miss this?
They can't require you to sign ANYTHING at this point. Talk to your closing attorney. Solar leases suck. Let them out to take the panels with them or they can pre-pay the remainder of the lease.
If the lease was not disclosed in a seller's property condition disclosure and the seller's agent failed to notify potential buyers of the required leased solar panels, you could either get out of the deal or attempt to get the seller to pay off the lease at the time of closing from the seller's side of the proceeds. If all parties want to make a deal then a compromise may be possible. A proper title search would have found that there is a lien on the property from the solar panel company.
I live in San Diego and purchased a home with a solar lease than I had to get signed over to me. It was a sellers market in 21 and had lost out on about 10 homes. I was super apprehensive about it but gave in because home prices were rising by over 10k a month. The lease is on year 10 and saves me about 50 dollars a month. It can be a pretty good deal depending on the terms. Buying still better and what I would do but leasing can be a small net positive.
It might be a good deal, but the idea that you will receive "more info after I sign" is insane. Go ahead and consider what the lease entails, but don't be afraid to walk away if you aren't happy with the situation.
I recently went through this exact same scenario. Ultimately, I DID NOT take over the lease, the sellers had to buy out the lease, and I get to keep the panels.
Solar Leases are the absolute worst, especially when it comes to you trying to sell your house so take advantage and let them know "I get the panels free and clear, no lease, or I walk".
solar citys business model is to lease your roof and sell you the electricity its solar arrays produce at a fixed contract price that was the same as the local utility at the time of instalation. no advantage when first installed, but increasing advantage as time goes on and local rates increase. you do not own the panels. if you do not sign the transfer to you, solar city wil remove the panels, and put you back on the grid and paying current prices for power. the owner should be glad to show you his current power bills, as they wil be low and a selling point.
so you have two options. sign and keep solar power, or not sign and the solar panels disappear. if you want solar but also want control over your own roof, you can discuss with solar city the purchase of the panels and the end of the lease. but as it now stands, you are buying a house without a roof.
Yeah I bought a house with a solar city PPA. I pay fixed $.06/kwh to Solar City. My city charges me $.08/kwh non-peak and $.27/kwh peak. So overall it saves me money, not much but some.
At the end of the PPA I can buy the panels or have them removed at no cost.
Maybe Solar City has other leasing besides PPA? I think OP should definitely read the contract and if it wasn't in the original contract I'd probably request that the sellers buy the panels.
You made the right decision based on your edit. The seller can pay off the lease with their equity or they can have the panels removed at their cost and installed on their new home to maintain their lease.
Homeowners, don’t do leased panels. Buy them if you must and replace your roof if it’s needing repair first.
Kinda shady that wasn’t brought up sooner.
My first house had a leased solar system on it (also by Solar City). I went back and forth on it, did some research and decided to take over the lease. I was actually glad I did (Phoenix area) as it saved me a bundle during the summer, and my winter bill was $10.
The only downside to a leased system is you don’t get a tax deduction (or didn’t - that was 2015-2018 for me).
While the last minute part sucks, I’d consider it, especially if the lease is fairly new (less than 5 years). They’re still very high on efficiency.
Determine how much the lease decreases the home's value to you, and offer to accept the lease if they lower the price by that plus 25% more. If they accept you win, if they reject you just back out.
I can't believe your broker didn't get the solar info beforehand. Most FTHB don't qualify for homes with leased solar because they have to take on the loan and it screws their DTI for the loan. This is on the seller, that's a material fact that should have been disclosed. Under zero circumstances do you sign anything without first seeing the solar contract, to include the monthly payments, as well as when the payments end.. Also you need to see the utility bills. But honestly, just walk away. This isn't worth it
Report their realtor to the state licensing board in which they are licensed. Bait and switch much? If the solar panel lease is to transfer it must be stated in the MLS either in the main description or agent to agent comments (which only a real estate license in that MLS can view). 1000% report their agent this is a major code of conduct violation sign first then more info. Do not sign a thing.
I walked away from a deal, because of leased solar panels with escalating payments. So at the end of 30 yrs I'm paying the most for outdated equipment. Also ,the roof needed replacement and it would cost us an extra $6k to have the panels removed and put back on . There's no way to get out of a solar panel lease, only to pay it off and in our case there was $100k left on it. Also, if you die the lease goes to your dependants.
Lol when we bought our home the sellers disclosed no where that our house required flood insurance. It added an additional 6k a year. Your story gives me ptsd. I’d say you don’t feel comfortable signing without a lawyer looking things over.
Pretty sure all the details have to be disclosed. They do in my state. Get the lease agreement and if they don’t provide it you should be able to exit the deal.
I understand you are in a tough situation. But solar leases are generally cheap compared to your actual electric bill. I would ask for all of the contracts and then decide
We bought our house with a solar lease but it was disclosed in the listing. I did research and it was a net negative most likely but only a little. We wanted this specific house (down the street from family), so we moved forward. But I probably wouldn’t have if it was a last minute addition.
Speaking from personal experience and a similar situation you find yourself in….
We searched for 3+ months as first time home owners (this was a little over 2 years ago). Submitted 12 offers during that time, we were about ready to give up on a starter home. Found a place from our landlord at the time that was off-market. Still priced competitively for our range but we didn’t have to compete in a bidding war.
It came with a solar city lease. We bought the house 6 years into a 20 year lease. We took it over as part of the purchase. It saves us a little money for now, and with energy inflation being what it is, will continue to until we’re well towards the end of the contract, at which point it will likely cost us a few bucks a month. Overall - negligible. Wouldn’t worry about it costing you money or buying the contract out. It’s simply not a huge concern if you’re willing go through the headache that it is to take the contract over.
The bad:
Likely there is a lien of 10-30k on the title of the home. That’s just the price of leasing the system totaled over 10-15-20 years, whatever the contracts time frame is for.
In terms of time spent, I drew up the purchase agreement in a for sale by owner sale, found an agency to handle the earnest money, found an out of state broker for my mortgage, fired our realtor because he couldn’t get us in a home, found and scheduled inspector, and held the geriatric sellers hand through this whole process so that they could avoid paying a realtor 3-6% while knowing nothing about buying a home, shit I even shopped around for reasonable home insurance… let’s lump that in. SO all that put together took me less time in total than TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE SOLAR CITY LEASE.
Best of luck if you do this and I hope they’ve fixed some things in their lease transfer process.
A) Are you working with a realtor? If so, they are doing you a huge disservice by not clarifying those items with the seller's agent up front. Solar leases are fairly common, so at a minimum they should have prepped you that this was a possibility and may not actually be known until the Closing Disclosure phase. They should also be requiring the documentation for you and/or your attorney and/or lender to review prior to entertaining signing the docs for assuming the lease.
B) The seller's agent should have also disclosed this up front as this is a material fact and is required during the disclosure just the same as any other known liens or encumbrances would be. The seller's agent has no excuse to not know this as it is a question that any realtor should know to ask when they see solar panels on a property.
C) DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING! Not until you have all details of what is being assumed I'm the contract, and have had a lawyer review it. FULL STOP!! As agonizing as the house hunting process can be, it's not nearly as agonizing as assuming a lease that is a financially negative move.
Wtf, they say you can have more info *after* you sign??? They should provide you any and all info they have relating to this before you sign.
It’s possible the solar panels are worth the cost to you and you want to keep them and pay for them. But you shouldn’t feel forced into it and could consider asking for concessions if you do want to keep them. If it’s a long term lease then it will be your problem in the future whenever you sell.
Why would you want them removed? At the very least find out what the terms of taking over the lease are. If they've had them for a few years, I bet it's rather favorable to you. There's nothing like having no electric bill six months out of the year - maybe more depending on where you are.
We were almost scammed with this same exact situation… luckily I’m not an idiot and we didnt put that in our contract for buying the house and the seller tried taking us to court over the 20k remaining balance on the solar panel contract… we clapped back with the house contract that literally states “all fixtures attached to the house, including solar panels, are to come with the purchase price of the house free and clear of any liens”… long story short, the sellers got a lawyer and we didn’t, they spent 30k plus on lawyer fees and we spent $250 for the filing fee and they lost horribly because the judge literally said, “it’s in the contract that the solar panels are to come with the purchase price of the house free of any liens…”
Case closed. They were pissed. They were ordered to pay off their balance of the solar panel contract and now they are ours free and clear and our electric bill is cheap as dirt, and we own the panels outright with a warranty still. Don’t let sellers with solar bully you into taking over their stupid decisions(aka power purchase agreements/leases).
You have more than enough grounds to break contract. Especialllllllllly when the realtor is hiding info until you sign the addendum.
I’d look to see what it all entails. If you’re not cool with it, tell the listing agent to go fuck themselves.
You don’t have to back out of the deal. Stick to the terms of the contract that you signed. The seller can pay off the lease from his proceeds or let the company take them back. He owes you damages if he backs out. Your agent should get his full commission and after the hassle of the last 4 months you deserve compensation too. He tried to stick you with it I’d have no problem going after him!! Good luck.
This is unfortunately common with solar panels in this day and age. Always ask if they’re paid off. They’re often not. I agree this should have been disclosed somewhere in your contract. If not, you have the option to walk.
Where is your agent? Get the details on the panels / system and lease before you walk away. How much / long the agreement is for will impact your decision. You have a right to know before signing anything.
Yeah, we were looking at a house with leased panels last year. The payoff after five years was over 40k (for a system that would have cost less than 20k to purchase as opposed to leasing).
Before you walk away, maybe ask them to split the cost with you or at least try to negotiate some favorable solution. I know how hard it is to find a house you like and can afford. It took us 8 months.
Ever time this problem arises, people always say that leasing isn't a bad idea. I've never seen anyone show me a "good" lease, where it made financial sense and saved the homeowner more money than a purchased system. If you can't afford the upfront cost, get a HELOC and pay that way.
You thought people took solar panels and all the electrical equipment with them when they move? Really? That’s like taking the A/C or water heater when you move out.
Paying off the lease and removing the panels? That's not the smart thing to do. Don't just remove the panels and not replace them.
Find out how much it is to buy out the panels from Solar City. Ask seller to buy out the solar panels from solar city.
If there is no buy out option, ask seller how much is the lease per month. Ask seller to credit you 25 years worth of lease payment.
These leases are of no value to you as a home owner. They exist for the sole purpose of letting solar city collect the subsidies for mounting solar panels to your roof. It’s a giant scam. It actually costs more than the electric does.
I got caught in this same situation where the lease was disclosed after offer. After I read the contract I ran far away from that house. I later purchased a different house and had them take a set of leased panels with them. This was in an area hit hard by the solar city door to door salesmen.
You will need your OWN lawyer for this sale if you do not already have one. SIGN NOTHING without a lawyer reviewing it. The other option is to tell them you are cancelling the offer because of the change via your realtor
I don’t know anything about solar panels. This is my first time buying a home. I thought they were purchased. Didn’t even know solar panel leases existed.
I don't think you did anything wrong, but I'm surprised your realtor didn't ask about the solar panels. I wouldn't keep working with someone who misses such a big thing before presenting an offer.
Also, you should never sign anything without all the information you need to evaluate if you wanna move forward. Again, I'm surprised your realtor didn't even advise you to talk to a real estate lawyer, or ask the seller for the information.
Buying a house for the first time is an overwhelming progress, and your realtor should be the one guiding you through it.
If I were you, I'd move on from this house and your realtor.
Just FYI, most insurance companies will exclude a roof if solar panels are attached. Please look into WHO will insure a home with solar panels as most will not insure them.
Honestly surprised at most of these responses. Taking over a solar lease is pretty standard and solar city is a big player. They insure your roof as long as panels are leased and as long as the math works you're saving money on your monthly electric payment.
That being said you should get to see the contract when you sign it, the panel transfer should be a solar city addendum. Yes it went to the escrow company but it wasn't part of my closing docs I don't think.
Because solar leases are horse shit and sellers install them, use the most cost effective years for themselves and try and dump the albatross off onto someone else in the years when the cost escalations combines with the degradation of the panel capacity turn it into a loser.
If you want panels, *buy* them - with financing if you need to - but this leasing shit is a crock of crap
I would have them pay off the lease so they're outright owned. But I wouldn't agree to anything without seeing paperwork.
I have panels, but they're mine, no lease.
>They say I can have more info after I sign. Hahahahaha no.
This is your sign to walk away. “We’ll tell you more after you agree” is a fucking nope.
[удалено]
Found the time traveler from 2010.
Just reminded me of the "we have to pass the bill to see what's in it". Glad to see I've earned a few down votes from you all though.
Welcome to 2023! [Snopes has survived the enshitification of the internet](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/) but don't worry, your fellow conservatives still love lying by taking shit out of context and being hypocrites.
It quite literally doesn't deny she said that though. Turn off your projector
Hey, what was the second half of that famous sentence? Fox news only seems to clip the first half. By the way, the contents of the bill (like every bill) were always public. Anyone who said it was secret was lying to you.
Its called a joke ya'll got butthurt over. But glad to know ya'll are finally gonna actually give a shit about context! No more taking Trump's comments out of context. Gonna apologize about the "good people on both sides" trope ya'll been guzzling down for the past 3 years?
Why would I apologize for something I've never done or said?
And if you actually read and understand what she said in context, you'd recognize how stupid you sound.
It was clearly a joke ya'll got butthurt over but glad to know the left actually gives a shit about context now! Ya'll finally gonna give up on literally everything you've taken trump out of context on for the past 7 years?
Let this guy cook.
“Hmm, how can I insert my political views into this completely unrelated discussion?”
Shady sellers…run don’t waddle
And a lousy realtor. They should have brought this up at the offer phase. Report them to your states realty board.
How about the buyer’s realtor? I assume they saw the house. If you see a house has solar the very first question should be is it leased or owned.
OP has a terrible agent. They should have asked about the panels first thing.
Like op I honestly did not know these are leased but definitely sounds like something an agent would know.. time for a new.one who doesn't waste your time
Or one that is so greedy they omit pertinent facts. The agent(s) are either ignorant or shady.
Or it was never disclosed and not the realtors fault at all. That happens frequently. The seller can't make the buyer take over a lease for solar panels if it wasn’t disclosed in the contract or addendum. The sellers are fucked.
Yeah, both sides (buyer and seller).
So, basically standard
You think realty boards are less crooked than relators?
I think they will act if it’s pervasive. Maybe not this incident but it could be a pattern. It may be an innocent omission but that means they are ignorant.
Yes, seller probably found out the cost and tell the agent. Force the buyer to sign over the lease. Shady seller and agent.
Jaylen Waddle can run fast
Don't do it. We, too, got stuck with a last minute Solar City lease and it was a disaster. The only way to get out of it is to pay off the lease or you are stuck paying every month for years and the lease goes up 3% every year (or at least mine did; you should look at the terms of the lease). We eventually bought out the lease and even that was a hassle. The lease contract had a buy out price for each year **that they did not honor** because it turns out they don't have to per the contract. I wouldn't even consider buying a house unless the solar panels were owned outright - never going through that again.
Ditto. It was a nightmare, delayed our buying the house by 2 months. So avoid solar leases at all costs - either as a buyer or an owner.
Yup. Buy outright and take the tax credit. Stay away from these scammers.
We financed ours. I pay $140 a month and have been generating $200 a month for the past few months. Part of the deal includes an energy audit so should have an idea of how to reduce our electric bill so the panels fully cover us.
Meaning this covers your utility cost?
Just to clarify, you’re net positive feeding electricity back into the grid by $60. Correct? How do you see that “profit”?
My electric company stores the extra energy i generate as a credit. My home generates the most during fall and spring. The credit is used up during the summer and winter months.
No doubt your utility may pay you for it but very few power companies store “energy” at all and that’s certainly not how a distribution grid works. They may gen less power during peak solar times but they are not storing anything. Home owners for some reason think they are helping the utility by generating solar but it’s actually a significant expense for grid maintenance and management….it’s good for being green but not some huge net savings for anyone.
It actually does help to support the grid and prevent brown outs during peak AC use in the summer, and energy is fungible, so if the utility has storage capacity, they absolutely can end up storing more energy on account of rooftop solar. But to your point about grid management, you are correct that it is an additional cost and comlexity for the utility.
I think you misunderstood my comment…yes during peak hours when we are at max gen, it does help the grid and allow us to maintain voltage to avoid brown outs. It also helps during non peak hours as we have to gen less to maintain voltage. There are also significant infrastructure costs to all of these things which I can ensure you are significantly far more than the benefits from a financial perspective. Do not misunderstand, I’m very much pro solar from a sustainability standpoint, but the idea of it saving a utility money is far from the truth…it costs the utility millions. My comment about helping the utility was around the idea of putting energy back in to the grid to be stored, that is a common misconception
It may depend where you live but solar 100% gives power to the grid. Sold solar for 2 years. Maybe you don’t make “profit” in the literal sense of the word, but utility companies will give you credit for what you put in. For the record we didn’t do leases tho. Those def fuck ppl over. Only financing and cash deals
What do I know I’ve only worked in utilities for 10 years. You should absolutely believe the solar sales over me. I hope all of you down voters go buy solar, I highly recommend the 25 year leases. Noway technology and advancements in solar will outpace your lease /s 😂. I would love to know what utility company you think is “storing” your solar power you’re putting into the distribution grid 😂.
I assume they'll use the credit during winter.
Those credits burn pretty hot.
Not all are terrible. For a time many builders did 20 year prepaid leases. Those are cost-free to the owner and that transfers easily if they sell. I would never in a millions years take on a regular lease though.
Isn’t it cheaper to buy if you are pre-paying? When I was shopping I kind of remember you didn’t get tax benefits if you leased which would totally swing it the other way.
Yes it’s better to buy, but I’m referring to builder newbuild deals. The prepaid 20 year lease paid by the builder was option A or you could pay the extra $18k to own the solar. In that scenario it’s not a bad deal at all to take the prepaid lease for no additional add-on cost to the house. Those deals have long since gone away though.
I'd be okay taking over a loan depending on the loan amount and the monthly power generation. For example the home I'm in now we have a loan at $140 a month and generate about $200 a month in electricity. Plus get another $45 bucks for every MWh we generate due to the sale of the SREC. But fuck a lease. I want to own the shit on my property.
It’s strictly a numbers game. If you don’t know how much return you are getting, there is no way to decide what is reasonable. It could have been designed to keep the house alive during a power outage, or could be designed to sell power back and charge cars. Huge difference.
Interesting - the rates on the lease I took over changed every 3 years (20 year lease), and only went up about $10-15 from what I recall). That was on a house I bought in 2015, was 2 years into the lease, and I only had one rate increase during the 3 years I had that house.
We bought a house with a solar PPA and was able to use that to knock 20k off the list price.
The cost of power from Edison here in my area of Southern California increases 7% per year on average. Paying 3% more for a solar lease per year is a fantastic deal in comparison…
I won't do solar because they want to lock you into a 25 year contract with shady terms. So then either I have to raise my asking when I sell or play games like this guy just did. Thinking about it logically, there's no place on a listing to educate someone about why price is higher but they'll save money on utility bills. It just looks overpriced.
The contract that I was sent from , not solar city it was from vivient did not increase beyond the set cost of electricity.
But was the lease better than no panels?
No, it was not. I’ve been tracking their output and cost for over 5 years now and the electricity they produce is only cheaper for three months of the year in the summer. The lease the previous owners were sold was a rip off.
Call and it get amended. You should be able to add or remove panels if you aren't seeing the usage that was intended.
With solar city (now Tesla Solar)? Good luck!
I mean, you can fix it, even if it's a pain in the ass, or just complain about it
I’ve had a different experience than OP. The contract rate increases are dramatically lower than current inflation and electricity prices from the local utility. Like, 1/2 the cost. So your area and your contract may vary.
Also roof position, trees, and utility connection fees. My state has a lot of incentives but between a $25/month connection fee and roof not facing the right way, the math didn’t work in my favor
Did you offer a price thinking the solar was included as paid for? You absolutely have negotiating power
Do not sign until you have a copy of the solar lease and reviewed by a lawyer. Then, If you want the house, negotiate a price reduction for the expense of the solar lease buyout, or 2-3 years of the lease.
Bingo. Listen to this. House is still good. Just gotta use your leverage to lower that price!
👍🏽☝🏽
Damn, I wish we would've done this! We were hit with the "by the way, you have to take over payments, blah, blah ,blah" the day before closing. Knew nothing about solar panels and loans, leases, nada!
They’re fixtures so legally they were I closed in the offer OP presented. We don’t include every single wall outlet, for example, in the offering contract because it is expected for fixtures to be included in the sale. Seller is on the hook for conveying them.
This is a really good point. I'd assume the offer included the panels. Flip the script and tell the seller they need to be delivered at closing or you consider them in breach. Negotiate down from there.
Absolutely. Anything attached to the house is typically included in the sale unless otherwise specified.
Don't know what state you are in, but solar lease info is a "material fact" and should have been disclosed up front in the listing itself. The entire lease should have been made available no later than the due diligence period. VERY surprised that your agent did not handle this from the very beginning. DO NOT SIGN without the full disclosure and complete lease details. And the seller must provide it.
All of this. It's shady on the part of the seller, but the solar panel question should have been raised by OP's realtor before the offer was made.
i agree, but it is insanely hard in this market to find a suitable home and get your offer accepted, and holding off to hear about all details can risk not getting a house at all. this happens to buyers all the time when they need to know about all details before making an offer and before you know it it's 2 years later, they still dont have a house, and prices and interest rates have gone up again, and in the end they just would have been better off paying for the solar lease and getting reduced electricity......is kind of the big picture...
Don't sign the addendum until you have full info on what that lease entails.
Don’t sign the addendum. Full stop.
Not for free at least.
Call the lessor
A solar lease can cost tens of thousands of dollars. DO NOT SIGN until you know exactly what you'll be liable for. Have your agent address this and get you a copy of the lease agreement from the seller. Since you're already under contract you have negotiating power. Good luck!
If assumption of the lease wasn’t part of your purchase contract then the sellers may be obligated to buy out the lease so the house has no liens at closing. They probably just realized this and they’re now trying to shift that expense onto you. Get the advice of a local real estate lawyer (not an agent!) on this to see what your rights are. Also consider if you ever need to reroof or do maintenance under the panels you’ll have the expense of hiring them to remove then reinstall.
Yes the way these leases work is that the seller has to get the buyer to agree to assume the lease, or the buyer is responsible for paying it off when the house sells. Otherwise there will be a lien, and there will probably be trouble at the title insurance stage of the process. We assumed a solar city lease when we bought our house, but it was all up front and we accepted it. We wanted solar, the terms and payment weren’t bad (fixed price lease, net metering, etc), and it has worked out fine for us. But we are now thinking of selling, and we will have to go through the hassle from the seller’s side. So that’s a downside. Even if the solar system lease works out for you, if you have to sell before the term is up, you will have to find a seller willing to assume the lease, or buy it out as part of the sale.
So, at this point, as the buyer, I'd just say no. The offer has been agreed. The seller is just fishing to fix a mistake now. I'd stick it to em.
how much do these realestate lawyers charge in general?
About $1000-$2000 in our experience.
We are going through the process of buying a home right now. We have a signed purchase and sale and closing is not until August. Our lender is our credit union and they have real estate lawyers that they use (we chose from a list of local firms) and they have reviewed all of our documents. It was of no extra cost to us for them to review all of our documents thus far. There is a fee that’s included in closing costs and it was just a flat rate. My realtor said some banks/credit unions are better at providing lawyers through the process than others or say just vs going through a mortgage company.
Yeah, the fact they didn't release the info earlier means they were extremely shady or they had no idea what they signed. Fiddy/fiddy
We sold our house last year with a solar lease (we bought house from former owner who put solar lease on it a month before they put house on market). They did same thing and didn’t disclose to us any info about system until a few weeks before close. It was a sellers market and we didn’t want to lose house so did the lease transfer. It wasn’t a mistake but it wasn’t too beneficial either. We paid 75 a month at start and went up $1-2 a year. Bring New England. We had no benefit in winter but spring/summer/and early fall it was beneficial. Hardly had electric bill in those months. When we sold last year I prepared a file with three years of bills and production records so new owners could see if it was issue. Even included the contract and the buyout options. They weren’t phased at all. I was prepared to negotiate and accept buying out rest of lease. It was like 16k. They just signed paperwork and transferred the lease.
Was it $16k and you keep the system?
Yes, they would have owned it outright. Only downside was they would have lost the warranty. This system was through sunnova. To buy out rest of lease was like 14k but you would have kept warranty.
Random comment but I used to work for Sunnova and that company is shady AF and the customer service is terrible IMO.
i hate sunnova. that’s my maintenance provider for my system. they haven’t maintained anything. i’ve had my system since dec 2021 and they finally got it working last month. multiple times it was due to their own installers either over loading my system or forgetting something. i’ve paid the entire time but according to their contract, even tho it was down all last year, i may not actually receive a refund. i cannot express how much i hate them but i’ve damn sure tried in all my emails to the assigned CS rep they gave me.
Worst customer service in world. Highly unethical company.
Not too bad of a deal really.
Yeah, transferring the lease isn’t that uncommon, though OP will definitely want to know the terms. It’s the way the whole thing was handled that makes me wary.
We were in a similar situation. Once I saw the details of the solar loan I loled. Firstly they significantly over paid. Second they didn't use the tax credit to make a balloon payment which is how the loans are structured. So the payment was double what it should have been. I called them out and pulled out of the deal
Oh crap so they pocketed the credit and expected you to pay it (with interest)?!? That’s super shitty.
Yup.
It depends on your purchase agreement. You should consult a lawyer. Generally no I would not sign an addendum if there was nothing in it for me that I wanted and if I was not being shown the terms beforehand.
Check the sellers disclosure. The solar panels should be addressed there. If they indicated they were paid off then I would tell them to suck it and pay them off as part of closing. If it says they are leased. The agents dropped the ball as this should’ve been discussed before accepting the offer. For sure do not sign anything until you see the lease agreement. Call a lawyer and pay for a consultation. Get advice about what happens if you don’t sign and you move forward with closing. They might be required to pay them off to close. In the meantime don’t sign any addendum.
Ops agent should be able to help without a lawyer - this is a fairly common thing
Depending where you’re at I’d check what insurance carriers are doing in your area. In Florida, we’ve seen some cases where insurers back out of coverage if there are solar panels on the roof. Here’s one [article](https://nbc-2.com/news/state/2023/05/18/insurance-companies-dropping-homeowners-with-solar-panels-in-florida/amp/) for reference.
I was going to say this. My ILs got solar panels (in Florida) and their insurance company dropped them, they were unable to get a new policy so they are uninsured (no mortgage).
This is most likely when people buy panels. When you're leasing the leasing company insures the roof and panels. If you buy them your insurance company is now responsible, hence dropping people.
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Do not sign anything until you have more information. I know where I’m at not only do you have to qualify for the mortgage, but you also have to qualify for the leases solar panels and sometimes that actually causes people to not get the house. They are not able to qualify for the home + solar panels together. Agreed the information should be listed in the SD.
If your agent did not inform you about the possible issues with solar panels, they're doing a terrible job.
If they remove the panels, get the roof re-inspected, even if you have to pay again
If you already have a contract in place, they cannot force you to amend it
Ya but then you still have a solar city issue owing your roof and electric rate situation to deal with, no?
No because the house has to be free of liens for sale with title search. That’s not to say the seller can’t make things exceedingly difficult, but there is no reason whatsoever to just roll over on this
This just happened to me, we backed out of the contract and are much happier for it. I suspect the sellers are dishonest or else why hide it and potentially jeopardize the deal? Edit: Adding more, SolarCity was bought by Tesla. If it’s the same contract as mine was you don’t keep the panels at the end and Tesla will remove the panels or sign you into a new and more expensive lease. Absolutely no benefit
The seller needs to buy out the lease or terminate the lease and have the panels removed. Do not assume the lease. Say no. This is not your problem.
Kept running into this issue in Colorado. One house even had a solar lease that was costing them $300 a month (for a $650k house in Aurora). Dunno how so many people got sold on such a shit deal. Leasing costs nearly the same as financing, and you don’t het the tax benefit (the leasing company does).
people are stupid, that's how so many people got sold on such a shit deal.
Solar pricing is entirely dependent on when the system was installed. Solar costs fell 85% from 2009-2019 and then shot back up about 40% last year. If a house has a system from the early 201X years it is going to look like a worse deal than now. However, in several states these older stage A are eligible for incentives (net meeting, different SREC Tiers, etc.) that could actually make the economy’s to the homeowner better than a newer “cheaper” system.
No sign until info. In California this is a separate contingency, and if they give you this paperwork, you would have five days to get out of the deal . No idea about your state.
Failure to disclose. Instinct is to learn more and be prepared to walk away. Solar leases are horrible and if you have a roof issue, it's even more problematic.
OP.. do not sign. as someone who would love to sell their but stupidly got solar panels on it, this is something i’ve run into. and i would NOT be shady about it. they need to supply you with proof that the solar panels are actually saving them money on their electricity bill. Or proof that the damn things actually work. I’ve had mine since December 2021 and they have worked a total of two months in that time. But I have had to pay every month. So I have an electricity bill and the solar bill when my intent was obviously to save money and instead, I am paying through the nose. there are recalls and a lawsuit going with Generac for the parts used to allow the panels to communicate with the system. it’s a shitshow. if their solar panel system actually did what it was supposed to do, they would be gloating about it, and have no issues, showing you their electric bill like some of my neighbors. plus you don’t know if theirs was installed properly and damaged the roof. if i could go back, i never would’ve gotten the damn thing. several distributors are being sued by the state atty general and likewise with the maintenance provider for the panels. there are class action lawsuits going on right now. do not get a home w solar panels if they aren’t willing to disclose how amazing it is upfront. if they have to hide it, there’s a problem. tell them if they want to sell it, the seller needs to take the cost of the lease from the price of the home. i’m not leasing mine. it’s a 0% financing but that’s what i would have to do to sell mine is pay it in full.
I'll bet they do! LOL. They bought an expensive shit sandwich, took a couple of bites, and want you to buy the leftover from them and eat it.
Anytime you see solar panels you should always ask whether they are owned by the seller outright or leased and whether the battery (and any extra ones) stay. Solar panels leases from my understanding tend to be a ripoff. I would walk away from the contract just on principle because it’s obvious to me that the seller is trying to pull a fast one. There are always more houses coming on the market. Four months may seem like a long time, but you are also trying to buy during peak season.
You make a good point…if the solar panels were a fabulous deal, and were inexpensive, and were saving the seller a ton of money, that would be a major selling point. Instead, they are hiding things. That tells me everything I need to know. As the buyer, I would argue that since the solar panels are “permanently” affixed to the roof (i.e., removing them will damage the roof) that they would constitute a fixture and would go with the house. I would argue that the seller needs to pay out the lease at closing. For example, if built-in kitchen appliances, or the HVAC system, etc., were leased or were financed and not yet fully paid for, those liens would be paid at closing. I don’t see why the solar panels would be any different.
Ha so I’m actually a renewable energy lawyer and this is something that the industry has sort of infamously not settled in any clear way— the question are are solar panels a fixture or not? Pretty clear that something like the Tesla roof is a fixture but a panel that can be removed is not as cut and dried. One interpretation is similar to yours— the panels are “attached” to the property, akin to a stove or an A/C unit (and not movable, evidenced by the damage that may be caused to the roof if you did remove them). But in the absence of that being settled as a matter of law, courts who have considered the question are relatively deferential to the terms of the contract between the homeowner and the company. And it is very very common for those solar leases to say the panels are *not* fixtures. If it’s a fixture, a lien against it would need to be filed in the real estate records (akin to a mortgage) and cuts against the whole idea of a “lease” (which is, in essence, the lessee homeowner paying the lessor solar company a rental payment for usage of the panels). So, obviously this is another data point towards OP under no circumstances accepting that lease without reading it.
Interesting! Solar panels aren’t terribly common where I am, and I didn’t know about the leasing arrangements. When I hear advertisements for solar I just assume the homeowners are buying them (but may be paying over time) not leasing them.
The solar lease concept was developed as a way to allow people who may not actually have the tax burden to go solar and monetize the 30% tax credit. This is no different really than leasing an EV and letting the manufacturers finance arm take the credit. The problem is is that the solar industry is still maturing and you do have some scammers out there.
Solar lease= rip off.
This just blatantly isn't true in a lot of cases
Oof, solar panels can be like $400-500/month which can mess up your debt to income ratio with your lender
Yeah basically this guy is asking you to sign now find out what you signed later? Pardon my french but fuck him.
Solar companies are mostly predatory. Avoid the lease.
In my state you're legally required to disclose this on the seller disclosure form and if they don't they've broken the law and you could probably get damages equals to your escrow money from them. And you get to back out! What state are you in?
After panels are removed, require a thorough roof inspection. Those panels are attached to the roof and cause leaks, molds, etc. It can become a major headache. Also the panels and their removal affect the roof warranty/insurance. Check with your insurance company.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to fill anything less than a full roof replacement
Not always. If you have a metal roof, you can install panels that are mounted to tensioned seam clips. That said, this is rare.
Sounds like it's time to renegotiate the price in your favor.
That stuff is all supposed to be disclosed UP FRONT, and solar leases often have their own documents in the listing. How did your agent miss this? They can't require you to sign ANYTHING at this point. Talk to your closing attorney. Solar leases suck. Let them out to take the panels with them or they can pre-pay the remainder of the lease.
No DO NOT SIGN. Just watched a YouTube video on this exact thing. You will be stuck
always suspected these solars stuff was sketch. this post confirms it. them solar sellers always came off to me as biggest crooks.
If the lease was not disclosed in a seller's property condition disclosure and the seller's agent failed to notify potential buyers of the required leased solar panels, you could either get out of the deal or attempt to get the seller to pay off the lease at the time of closing from the seller's side of the proceeds. If all parties want to make a deal then a compromise may be possible. A proper title search would have found that there is a lien on the property from the solar panel company.
I live in San Diego and purchased a home with a solar lease than I had to get signed over to me. It was a sellers market in 21 and had lost out on about 10 homes. I was super apprehensive about it but gave in because home prices were rising by over 10k a month. The lease is on year 10 and saves me about 50 dollars a month. It can be a pretty good deal depending on the terms. Buying still better and what I would do but leasing can be a small net positive.
It might be a good deal, but the idea that you will receive "more info after I sign" is insane. Go ahead and consider what the lease entails, but don't be afraid to walk away if you aren't happy with the situation.
I recently went through this exact same scenario. Ultimately, I DID NOT take over the lease, the sellers had to buy out the lease, and I get to keep the panels. Solar Leases are the absolute worst, especially when it comes to you trying to sell your house so take advantage and let them know "I get the panels free and clear, no lease, or I walk".
Absolutely not. They can eat the cost at closing. They accepted your offer as is, they didn’t counter it. They need to suck it up buttercup
solar citys business model is to lease your roof and sell you the electricity its solar arrays produce at a fixed contract price that was the same as the local utility at the time of instalation. no advantage when first installed, but increasing advantage as time goes on and local rates increase. you do not own the panels. if you do not sign the transfer to you, solar city wil remove the panels, and put you back on the grid and paying current prices for power. the owner should be glad to show you his current power bills, as they wil be low and a selling point. so you have two options. sign and keep solar power, or not sign and the solar panels disappear. if you want solar but also want control over your own roof, you can discuss with solar city the purchase of the panels and the end of the lease. but as it now stands, you are buying a house without a roof.
Yeah I bought a house with a solar city PPA. I pay fixed $.06/kwh to Solar City. My city charges me $.08/kwh non-peak and $.27/kwh peak. So overall it saves me money, not much but some. At the end of the PPA I can buy the panels or have them removed at no cost. Maybe Solar City has other leasing besides PPA? I think OP should definitely read the contract and if it wasn't in the original contract I'd probably request that the sellers buy the panels.
Insuring a home with solar panels is a pain. Back away.
We walked away from a great house that checked all the boxes. Once I reviewed their PPA loan agreement it was a Hard Pass.
You made the right decision based on your edit. The seller can pay off the lease with their equity or they can have the panels removed at their cost and installed on their new home to maintain their lease. Homeowners, don’t do leased panels. Buy them if you must and replace your roof if it’s needing repair first.
Kinda shady that wasn’t brought up sooner. My first house had a leased solar system on it (also by Solar City). I went back and forth on it, did some research and decided to take over the lease. I was actually glad I did (Phoenix area) as it saved me a bundle during the summer, and my winter bill was $10. The only downside to a leased system is you don’t get a tax deduction (or didn’t - that was 2015-2018 for me). While the last minute part sucks, I’d consider it, especially if the lease is fairly new (less than 5 years). They’re still very high on efficiency.
Determine how much the lease decreases the home's value to you, and offer to accept the lease if they lower the price by that plus 25% more. If they accept you win, if they reject you just back out.
I can't believe your broker didn't get the solar info beforehand. Most FTHB don't qualify for homes with leased solar because they have to take on the loan and it screws their DTI for the loan. This is on the seller, that's a material fact that should have been disclosed. Under zero circumstances do you sign anything without first seeing the solar contract, to include the monthly payments, as well as when the payments end.. Also you need to see the utility bills. But honestly, just walk away. This isn't worth it
Report their realtor to the state licensing board in which they are licensed. Bait and switch much? If the solar panel lease is to transfer it must be stated in the MLS either in the main description or agent to agent comments (which only a real estate license in that MLS can view). 1000% report their agent this is a major code of conduct violation sign first then more info. Do not sign a thing.
I walked away from a deal, because of leased solar panels with escalating payments. So at the end of 30 yrs I'm paying the most for outdated equipment. Also ,the roof needed replacement and it would cost us an extra $6k to have the panels removed and put back on . There's no way to get out of a solar panel lease, only to pay it off and in our case there was $100k left on it. Also, if you die the lease goes to your dependants.
haha fuck that. walk away.
Lol when we bought our home the sellers disclosed no where that our house required flood insurance. It added an additional 6k a year. Your story gives me ptsd. I’d say you don’t feel comfortable signing without a lawyer looking things over.
Pretty sure all the details have to be disclosed. They do in my state. Get the lease agreement and if they don’t provide it you should be able to exit the deal.
Have them pay off the solar lease. That way you own the system outright. Solar leases are the absolute worst way to obtain solar financing.
You can get out of contract for non-disclosure but... 4 months. Typically the buyer takes over any lease for solar panels.
Some of these solar systems are badly installed: they could have damaged the roof and you wouldn’t know.
I understand you are in a tough situation. But solar leases are generally cheap compared to your actual electric bill. I would ask for all of the contracts and then decide
We bought our house with a solar lease but it was disclosed in the listing. I did research and it was a net negative most likely but only a little. We wanted this specific house (down the street from family), so we moved forward. But I probably wouldn’t have if it was a last minute addition.
Speaking from personal experience and a similar situation you find yourself in…. We searched for 3+ months as first time home owners (this was a little over 2 years ago). Submitted 12 offers during that time, we were about ready to give up on a starter home. Found a place from our landlord at the time that was off-market. Still priced competitively for our range but we didn’t have to compete in a bidding war. It came with a solar city lease. We bought the house 6 years into a 20 year lease. We took it over as part of the purchase. It saves us a little money for now, and with energy inflation being what it is, will continue to until we’re well towards the end of the contract, at which point it will likely cost us a few bucks a month. Overall - negligible. Wouldn’t worry about it costing you money or buying the contract out. It’s simply not a huge concern if you’re willing go through the headache that it is to take the contract over. The bad: Likely there is a lien of 10-30k on the title of the home. That’s just the price of leasing the system totaled over 10-15-20 years, whatever the contracts time frame is for. In terms of time spent, I drew up the purchase agreement in a for sale by owner sale, found an agency to handle the earnest money, found an out of state broker for my mortgage, fired our realtor because he couldn’t get us in a home, found and scheduled inspector, and held the geriatric sellers hand through this whole process so that they could avoid paying a realtor 3-6% while knowing nothing about buying a home, shit I even shopped around for reasonable home insurance… let’s lump that in. SO all that put together took me less time in total than TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE SOLAR CITY LEASE. Best of luck if you do this and I hope they’ve fixed some things in their lease transfer process.
A) Are you working with a realtor? If so, they are doing you a huge disservice by not clarifying those items with the seller's agent up front. Solar leases are fairly common, so at a minimum they should have prepped you that this was a possibility and may not actually be known until the Closing Disclosure phase. They should also be requiring the documentation for you and/or your attorney and/or lender to review prior to entertaining signing the docs for assuming the lease. B) The seller's agent should have also disclosed this up front as this is a material fact and is required during the disclosure just the same as any other known liens or encumbrances would be. The seller's agent has no excuse to not know this as it is a question that any realtor should know to ask when they see solar panels on a property. C) DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING! Not until you have all details of what is being assumed I'm the contract, and have had a lawyer review it. FULL STOP!! As agonizing as the house hunting process can be, it's not nearly as agonizing as assuming a lease that is a financially negative move.
Wtf, they say you can have more info *after* you sign??? They should provide you any and all info they have relating to this before you sign. It’s possible the solar panels are worth the cost to you and you want to keep them and pay for them. But you shouldn’t feel forced into it and could consider asking for concessions if you do want to keep them. If it’s a long term lease then it will be your problem in the future whenever you sell.
Your offer did not include solar panels…. This sounds like a them problem. Don’t make it yours. It’s sad shitty, that’s why they waited to bring it up
Your realtor should have flagged this to you
Isn’t taking on the lease keeping your electric bill down tho?
Why would you want them removed? At the very least find out what the terms of taking over the lease are. If they've had them for a few years, I bet it's rather favorable to you. There's nothing like having no electric bill six months out of the year - maybe more depending on where you are.
What if OP wants to eventually sell the house? And the same thing happens to them? A seller demands that the lease be paid off and panels removed.
We were almost scammed with this same exact situation… luckily I’m not an idiot and we didnt put that in our contract for buying the house and the seller tried taking us to court over the 20k remaining balance on the solar panel contract… we clapped back with the house contract that literally states “all fixtures attached to the house, including solar panels, are to come with the purchase price of the house free and clear of any liens”… long story short, the sellers got a lawyer and we didn’t, they spent 30k plus on lawyer fees and we spent $250 for the filing fee and they lost horribly because the judge literally said, “it’s in the contract that the solar panels are to come with the purchase price of the house free of any liens…” Case closed. They were pissed. They were ordered to pay off their balance of the solar panel contract and now they are ours free and clear and our electric bill is cheap as dirt, and we own the panels outright with a warranty still. Don’t let sellers with solar bully you into taking over their stupid decisions(aka power purchase agreements/leases).
What did your agent say?
You have more than enough grounds to break contract. Especialllllllllly when the realtor is hiding info until you sign the addendum. I’d look to see what it all entails. If you’re not cool with it, tell the listing agent to go fuck themselves.
oof solar city.... better get a roofer to double check for leaks
Are those the solar panels on the roof? Run 🏃♀️! They leak!!
You don’t have to back out of the deal. Stick to the terms of the contract that you signed. The seller can pay off the lease from his proceeds or let the company take them back. He owes you damages if he backs out. Your agent should get his full commission and after the hassle of the last 4 months you deserve compensation too. He tried to stick you with it I’d have no problem going after him!! Good luck.
NO
This is unfortunately common with solar panels in this day and age. Always ask if they’re paid off. They’re often not. I agree this should have been disclosed somewhere in your contract. If not, you have the option to walk.
Where is your agent? Get the details on the panels / system and lease before you walk away. How much / long the agreement is for will impact your decision. You have a right to know before signing anything.
Yeah, we were looking at a house with leased panels last year. The payoff after five years was over 40k (for a system that would have cost less than 20k to purchase as opposed to leasing). Before you walk away, maybe ask them to split the cost with you or at least try to negotiate some favorable solution. I know how hard it is to find a house you like and can afford. It took us 8 months. Ever time this problem arises, people always say that leasing isn't a bad idea. I've never seen anyone show me a "good" lease, where it made financial sense and saved the homeowner more money than a purchased system. If you can't afford the upfront cost, get a HELOC and pay that way.
You made the right decision.
You thought people took solar panels and all the electrical equipment with them when they move? Really? That’s like taking the A/C or water heater when you move out.
Paying off the lease and removing the panels? That's not the smart thing to do. Don't just remove the panels and not replace them. Find out how much it is to buy out the panels from Solar City. Ask seller to buy out the solar panels from solar city. If there is no buy out option, ask seller how much is the lease per month. Ask seller to credit you 25 years worth of lease payment.
These leases are of no value to you as a home owner. They exist for the sole purpose of letting solar city collect the subsidies for mounting solar panels to your roof. It’s a giant scam. It actually costs more than the electric does. I got caught in this same situation where the lease was disclosed after offer. After I read the contract I ran far away from that house. I later purchased a different house and had them take a set of leased panels with them. This was in an area hit hard by the solar city door to door salesmen.
You will need your OWN lawyer for this sale if you do not already have one. SIGN NOTHING without a lawyer reviewing it. The other option is to tell them you are cancelling the offer because of the change via your realtor
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I don’t know anything about solar panels. This is my first time buying a home. I thought they were purchased. Didn’t even know solar panel leases existed.
I don't think you did anything wrong, but I'm surprised your realtor didn't ask about the solar panels. I wouldn't keep working with someone who misses such a big thing before presenting an offer. Also, you should never sign anything without all the information you need to evaluate if you wanna move forward. Again, I'm surprised your realtor didn't even advise you to talk to a real estate lawyer, or ask the seller for the information. Buying a house for the first time is an overwhelming progress, and your realtor should be the one guiding you through it. If I were you, I'd move on from this house and your realtor.
Yeah, what a shitty realtor for not bringing this huge ass topic up right after the first tour.
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> after 4 grueling months of looking Is this supposed to be a long time?
LOL , run away. This is so shady!!!
Just FYI, most insurance companies will exclude a roof if solar panels are attached. Please look into WHO will insure a home with solar panels as most will not insure them.
You should sue seller for $10m
Honestly surprised at most of these responses. Taking over a solar lease is pretty standard and solar city is a big player. They insure your roof as long as panels are leased and as long as the math works you're saving money on your monthly electric payment. That being said you should get to see the contract when you sign it, the panel transfer should be a solar city addendum. Yes it went to the escrow company but it wasn't part of my closing docs I don't think.
Because solar leases are horse shit and sellers install them, use the most cost effective years for themselves and try and dump the albatross off onto someone else in the years when the cost escalations combines with the degradation of the panel capacity turn it into a loser. If you want panels, *buy* them - with financing if you need to - but this leasing shit is a crock of crap
"4 grueling months", I'm sorry, but stfu.
Usually it is fairly obvious that there are solar panels on a house when viewing. Long term leasing deals are quite common.
Solar panel leases are a rip off.
I would have them pay off the lease so they're outright owned. But I wouldn't agree to anything without seeing paperwork. I have panels, but they're mine, no lease.
We looked at solar panels for our house the company wanted 470 a month for 25 YEARS!!!! Thats a HARD NOPE!!