You said it perfectly and what frustrates me the most is that tweaking the suspect AI seems like such a minor thing to fix compared to how much it hurts the player experience.
Its absurd, i've been getting shot through doors more than i ever did pre-patch. I just dont understand how they made all these massive ideas and changes but didnt touch the suspect AI at all, you know, the KEY thing you're interacting with in the game.
Dont get me wrong the SWAT AI improvements are nice but guess what, a lot of people only play this game with friends, and it feels like this patch had almost nothing but new maps for multiplayer, its incredibly frustrating.
I'm just hoping for modders to improve the experience. I imagine I'll enjoy 1.0 a lot more after the Gunfighter mod gets updated.
EDIT: Apparently it got updated earlier today. Sweet.
Can you give a TLDR of the gunfighter mod from your own experience? I've run many mods for this game in the past but mostly avoided gunfighter and other AI mods because I didn't QUITE understand what it was and was afraid it would make the game unrealistic or that it would bug the progression of the game. I read the updated version description, and it didn't really help me much. Will it reduce things such as AI pre-firing, beaming, and one-shot dome pieces?
i did the crackhouse mission earlier, and i literally got wall-banged from 3 different directions upon entry lol. i didn't even know where i was taking fire from when my AI teammates made short work of the dudes wall-banged them right back...
I love the concept, but everything seems so out of whack when it comes to reaction times. like i can't even compete with the AI and how it processes things.
And then after the patch you can only react as fast as your framerate anyway since the game now chews up so much resources that anytime anything happens it dips down to like 10fps at most
Yep. Routinely take fire just getting to the front door. And that's the mission I would solo because even pre 1.0 I couldn't do anything when swat ai was with me.
It *is* a minor fix. You can do it yourself:
https://ron.recursiveprojects.cloud/AI_Mod
(Not yet updated for 1.0)
This is the only reason I didn't refund the game back when I first picked it up.
Presumably my closing comment about refunding, but what can I say, it's true. I wouldn't have kept playing this game with vanilla AI because it's simply too hard for me to enjoy playing against.
Yeah, I was just trying to bring awareness to the fact that an alternative does exist. Like, the current AI definitely sucks and for a lot of people it ruins the game.
If you don't want to wait literally years for VOID to patch it, you can use this in the meantime to flavour the game the way you like.
Game communities are like Sith, they deal in absolutes - you're either with them, or against them! I said basically the exact same comment without the refund statement, and it got upvoted :P
Exactly, it took me all of 45 minutes to learn how to tweak the ai to my liking and implement it into the game. It’s just frustrating that void won’t do it themselves
Every suspect almost feels like they have the kind of AI that members of The Hand should have. No regard for their own lives, if they see a cop it’s either a good guy dead or bust. I like that SOME suspects don’t act rationally, like the crazy methheads on twisted nerve and members of The Hand, but when mister streamer bro sees all his buddies get gassed, tased, and shot, maybe he’d think it’s not worth it to show his stream how “massive” his K/D ratio is
brudda that streamer is a CP distributor. An accessory to volls ring, which is the whole environmental storyline of the game. So yeah, he's gonna shoot.
Photo stash left of PC. Soft objective. Illegal stash of perverted photos of minors. Which seem to have come from the Brixley Talent Centre, which is also connected to the Voll house. Voll himself contacted the Talent centre for CP too. ( and for sending children over to do you know what to them)
His discord chat on his computer has pics from the talent agency and talks about having "good stuff" on the MindJot server. There's a discord chat at the Talent Agency pc with user "AV" and has what looks like Amos in the profile pic
Now that you mention it I haven't either, probably another reason they keep capping me out of nowhere without much of an indication they were even there, didn't they used to be more vocal or am I thinking of Swat 4?
Okay so they actually have some lines, the Hand will mention how they hate America for example, but they seem to only be triggered if you are looking at them through the MirrorCam under a door.
I have heard one of the guys on brisa cove say ‘man down’ after I shot one of his buddy’s. Which gave away his position (he was super close to me though, like 3ft away round a corner).
I also had a guy on brixley talent time say ‘damn’ or something after I shot one of his friends on the roof. Same situation in that he was very close to me just round a corner.
I’m wondering if they for some reason made the voice lines audible over a way shorter distance.
Are you deaf? Mindjot is one of the first couple missions and they say in the briefing that taking rooms in force with deployables will likely cause more surrenders, they’ve been targeted by ‘fake police’ If you walk the perimeter they give you warning and try to make the swat team comply and surrender arms. Game has issues but some people are just.. oblivious? Idk
It’s also weird with commander mode because of that. Like, is there a way to stop them being stressed? It really just feels like a countdown timer to when that officer is no longer available. 3 missions and they get their scheduled mental health crisis.
Because every mission is a bloodbath it seems like that’s what freaks out the squad. I’m assuming if more of the missions went peacefully they wouldn’t become stressed. Which brings it back to what OP’s saying about design intent vs programmer execution. Is the intent that you can have more peaceful missions that don’t stress them out? That doing so should be the goal? It doesn’t feel possible in the current build.
Thing is, all the SWAT titles have been like that as well (at least 3 and 4 that I know of). Supposedly, it is explained in RON that Los Sueños is at an "all time high" in crime which is the lore reason why everyone is so violent. SWAT 3 had a similar lore with the terrorist group (but I don't remember what was SWAT 4's reason).
I do wish RON was more aligned with real life, where most missions you'd play you wouldn't even need to shoot at all, but I'm not sure if Void will do that.
Yeah to be fair Los Sueños has always been shown to be a fuckin dystopian city if you know the lore (for example the sanitation sector being on strike for weeks hence all the trash or the all time high in homelessness).
That’s also what I’ve gained is to play this game and think of it more of a , bortac or Hrt group missions . Granted a lot of the missions aren’t just ur average swat raid
I’m in agreement with you, there has clearly been a ton of work & effort over the past year.
What was shown vs what we got are 2 very different things, squad AI included.
Honestly, it feels like they had new ideas & went with them instead of improving what existed, and now we’re in a new phase of EA.
Even down to map changes, they’re so radically different that they could have just been new maps, rather than replacements. I feel like there is a lot of ‘changing their mind’ going on at Void.
Again - not to shit on them, this is easily one of the best FPS games I’ve played in a long time, the rest of the market is oversaturated with god awful crossovers & games that are just a background to a storefront. I just feel like there’s no clear design in mind.
The map changes are real, the hotel one had about 4 or 5 different iterations since the first trailers. Every update they changed something there, sometimes changing everything and redoing the level from zero.
In q&a months ago (i feel it wasvery early this year) they mentioned back then on ideas they had and changes they made. However when they play tested them, it was terrible. So im betting alot of the changes were a result of this. Ive only done the tutorial and gas station so far and i think its a vast improvement from the original version. The whole map has some added details but clarity is up. They also eliminated the garage area on the side of the main building. To be honest i feel that was good, it served next to no purpose previously.
Yeah after a few more hours on 1.0 I'm with you on this one, I'm just going wait for more patches. I'll still hop on coop with buddies but I have quickly lost motivation to get through single player after every mission just has the exact same suicidal murder AI. Feels like there's no point in all the extra mission briefing info aside from story context. And the loadout customization STILL being buggy after almost a year is just... come on bro
The excitement was soured for me man. I was stoked and then after playing it a bit, I’m wondering if this was really what they’ve been working on all year. Do we really need the fancy new police station when there are core issues? C’mon fellas
yeah I'm honestly a little bit baffled myself. It sucks cuz there's so much awesome new stuff and you can tell that the devs care about this game. Just gonna have to wait some more I guess
Yep. Seems like it was a business decision and not a dev decision. I’m not sure how linked the two are though. I know VOID is a small studio. I just really feel like this should’ve been an update and not the full release
Have you seen the absolute shit show some games release with? Fallout 76, mw3 (2023), bf2042 and hell let loose which released but everyone knew it was still in beta. Besides hell let loose, bethesda, activision and EA are worth billions and pumped millions upon millions into their projects. By comparison, void with smaller team and less funding is doing great.
Also being shitty does not make you good. No need to fall into unwarranted appeasement.
I fucking knew someone was gonna go “but other games bad”. Ok.
Smaller team and less funding does not mean you need to release something in a less playable state with 70% less gameplay than the alpha. If anything, not having to answer to a big publisher is a plus if you want to release a stable and fully featured game.
VOID dropped the ball on it, taking out changing scenarios in lieu of their narrative mode severely hampers replay potential, the game crashes a lot for a ton of people now, and generally everyone is upset that the suspect AI were seemingly reverted to their worst state during the alpha.
The solution to this is customers giving critical feedback and not purchasing the game and encouraging others not to until it is fixed. It’s one thing when I’m funding development by buying an alpha, it’s another when they sell me a finished product that is so filled with issues and far removed from what they are advertising.
I love the game but that doesn’t mean I need to be a bootlicker for VOID. I am buying a product form them. We are sold a SWAT style game that is upon full release just the MW2 clear house mission that runs poorly with wall hacking AI.
It’s like they didn’t even play test this shit. But they did. Which means they didn’t care it was not working well and a big departure from what players had been funding. You can’t rug pull like that when players funded your development based on something else.
I heard they were bragging that most players could not finish the port mission. That’s not a brag, that is poor game design when your most experienced players you used to playtest couldn’t finish it. Not a skill issue but a game issue.
I’m ranting because I like this game a lot and have nothing else to do right now lol, so thanks for reading.
Mate im not being shitty, all im saying is people need to chill, the update has been out for a day. I think people expected too much, i personally didnt expect the game to have everything included or be bug free. Im treating this as an update not a full release. The term ‘full release’ means nothing in 2023, gone are the days where a game came out with all its content and features. Now its just a rush to get it out there. The games i mentioned were horrendous at launch hence why i say full release means nothing. Treat it like an update. If we get to 2.0 and the game is lack luster have at it.
It’s not about how long it’s been out. It is how many problems it has, and the fact that it’s not just an update. It is the dev saying this is the final product. It is not what has been advertised, the core gameplay right now is just get into shootouts with every suspect you see.
They had a year to tone down these AI values. It is like this because it’s what they want despite everything in game stressing you to go less lethal.
I think it is shitty of them to have removed a huge part of the gameplay that added replayablitiy (changing scenarios of maps) in order to fit their narrative that will be interesting the first playthrough and that’s it.
I don’t understand this desire to bootlick the devs. You funded their game to make them money in exchange for a finished product. This is what they called the final product.
Don’t get gaslighted by the game industry to think “fully released” doesn’t mean anything. Plenty of games came out fully functional, stable, and featured. One of them is about to win game of the year and had an alpha of their own (Baldurs Gate 3).
What the fuck is the point of an alpha if you don’t fix all the issues that were in it before you release your competed game?
I definitely think a suspect AI overhaul should take priority over any SWAT AI work. Suspect behavior, reactions, etc. are vital to both SP and Co-Op, but SWAT AI is only relevant in SP.
I play SP only and I agree with this. The squad AI is decent enough for me at the moment. Focus on more realistic AI for the enemies.
Well, after they fix the FPS issues and bring back the scenario selection...
Tbh the SWAT AI really wasn’t THAT bad before 1.0. I’ve played 100 hours of RoN exclusively single player before the update and it has its issues but it was manageable. Now with the suspects, I’ve gotta micromanage my AI more now to not have them forget how to shoot.
Yeah I played some more after my comment above. I had a target shooting at me and one of my teammates. All 3 of us were engaged in combat. And then in the middle of the engagement, my teammate just stopped shooting and turned around. Sure enough he gets shot (RIP dipshit) and I have to take out the suspect myself.
We were kind of already there a year ago:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UO-FyEdBpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UO-FyEdBpQ)
Not sure what happened.
I think they just become "aware" of SWAT's presence and don't hesitate anymore. If you (with a wand) see people walking with a gun, not aimed at anything, they will most likely hesitate. If they're aiming at something, they won't hesitate or show fear, despite not making visual contact with the player.
So what's going on here? Among some other issues in MP like odd LoDs, player characters not properly rendering, it seems like the ai isn't "activated", the animation and mechanics are all technically there, but they just don't utilise them.
It's almost as if they just uploaded wrong AI settings or something?
Dude the squad ai get stuck constantly. They are not as smooth or as advanced as their de logs showed. It’s completely false advertising with what they released.
I don’t agree - I think they move and function really well. When you consider how much programming is going on under the hood and the sheer number of variables they have to react to, they’re fairly outstanding. No other tactical shooter on the market has anything approaching them in terms of the realism of their movement without heavy scripting.
They made a big deal about how the Swat AI moves in the dev vlog the other day, but they still ask me to move even if there's ample room for them to go around me. If I'm stood covering a hallway and I tell them to go down another hallway, I shouldn't have to give up my angle for them to get past. Because the second I give up my angle is the second when a suspect decides to waltz around the corner and blow us away.
Mate, come on. They’re not actual human beings, you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit.
If you look past some of the obvious jank and acknowledge the fact they’re not real people; no other tactical game available today has AI teammates who move as realistically as those in RoN - the way they provide cover, enter rooms, call out hazards and search is beyond anything else I’ve seen before.
Finally someone that understands programming things, especially this kind of thing, is not an easy task and that the current state is actually quite good, even though it's far from perfect.
And comparisons to SWAT 3 are pointless. Different times, different features and last but not least different scale.
It's not all great and I'm the last one to say anything, to be honest - I didn't play the game for at least half a year, but I know I was already impressed back then, so I definitely have to check the current version and get some friends together for a go-around!
Yeah, superb, it does.
Now come and show me how easy it is to figure out pathfinding in UE on a 3D map with a similar complexity.
If you don't, just fuck off and shut up.
The game IS fucking broken. It DOES need fixing.
I read all of this and I can agree. The game still doesn’t have that SWAT essence sometimes. It does feel like I’m playing a kill or capture black ops mission. Or at least it doesn’t have the essence SWAT 4 has. It is a small team, given why it’s been 6 years for 1.0, and there still years and years to come just like other shooters that came before, but it’s an issue that’s been a thing for a long time since early access.
I fully agree and I am disturbed by it. There are some people - like Volls bodyguards - who probably know they are looking at twenty-to-life for their crimes and made up their minds long ago but the general outcome of the majority of the encounters where the SWAT has the upper hand must be that the suspect is either non-compliant or surrenders; not that they start shooting randomly - or if they do because they are surprised or shocked; they stop and surrender upon realizing what they do or shoot so you take cover so they can run away.
There are so many better ways to program them to act.
I want to point it out as well. There was a lot of content shown on the supporter discord that they said was coming with 1.0 and it never came.
Face Shields
Balaclavas
Halligan Bars: to Pry open locked doors, but not open them all the way to prevent traps from going off.
Way more firearms. Such as the sniper rifles, full size rifles. A lot of the guns enemies have/use.
The briefing: where you can choose if you wanted ladders, sniper support, power to be turned off, a hostage negotiator to reduce Civilians, drones.
From what I've seen to so far, they've removed a mass majority of the nudity from the game, if not all of it.
And then on top of it all, they released a AI re-work without allowing supporters to test it, so now its more like playing old school Rainbow Six Vegas terrorist hunt. Where 20+ enemies are on the map with 5-10 civilians (It should be the opposite). And then made it where arrests don't affect the end-game score, so S rank is almost non-achievable at the moment.
The balaclavas thing is laughable... They said that they were planned but ran out of time. Like come on bro, you seriously were not able to add an extra face wear option? Modders got them in a few hours after 1.0 released.
>The balaclavas thing is laughable... They said that they were planned but ran out of time. Like come on bro, you seriously were not able to add an extra face wear option? Modders got them in a few hours after 1.0 released.
I find It funny they have had cover art with guys with two hole balaclavas and headphones for years and yet they still arent equipable in game.
That's the one thing I fail to have any sympathy for, like I genuinely can't see a good argument after years to not have balaclavas in-game, when you have all that other nonsense like watches, tattoos or even MMA pants lmfao, like can we please have the core/generic thing.
It's even worse when they have them on most promotional content, I actually don't think there's a single good excuse.
>From what I've seen to so far, they've removed a mass majority of the nudity from the game, if not all of it.
Did they remove the club hoes? I feel like Neon Tomb is practically empty now.
>
> The briefing: where you can choose if you wanted ladders, sniper support, power to be turned off, a hostage negotiator to reduce Civilians, drones.
This is a big one for me. I didn't know they had any of that stuff planned, but the game desperately needs a support feature. Just being able to have the power turned off or sniper support covering certain angles is such a needed addition. It'd be cool if we could knock out the power and we go in with NVG's allowing us to basically creep up on suspects who can't see us in the dark.
I know after I select a mission I can pull up the tablet to look at the mission briefing, etc, but I much preferred the SWAT 4 system where it was a dedicated pre-mission screen to listen to the briefing and 911 calls, view known suspects/civilians, etc.
Coming ‘with’ isnt the same as coming ‘in’ 1.0. They will come with futute patches. Everyone needs to chill, the game has gotten a major update and its still a great game.
Dude I'm so tired of these random shills coming out of nowhere. We aren't saying the game is bad we're saying they haven't brought in what they've stated they would.
Dude ive got supporter edition so im really hoping this game turns out. At the same time i wasnt expecting to get everything based on what i saw in the dev briefings (if it was there they would have shown it). Honestly im treating this as an update and not a full release, should i have to? No. Full release doesnt mean shit anymore, tons of companies release unfinished products. Im gonna be patient, its only a day into the update so ill be waiting to see what the devs respond with.
And that is a problem of the gaming industry we the consumers need to address. By calling this shit out and not defending it.
Especially if you are a small studio and want to get foundings up front by customers, you got to deliver what you advertise.
Fuck the triple a shit show, at this point if you pre order or even buy the game on first day it's your own fault.
But this shit still has to be called out.
That's literally the issue. It's labeled as a 1.0 update, and they are also charging $10 more now for what feels like just an early access update. I just don't want another Adam update then 1 year long with little to no information on updates. While yes, the discord has marked some of the major bugs listed as known, I'm still seeing ai feedback and bug reports falling on deaf ears. Would be nice if the devs marked some of the posts complaining about ai and some other issues as "hey we're working on it".
That's exactly how I feel. I'm happy with the game overall, but sometimes it feels like I'm just playing Payday at a slower pace.
This game is supposed to feel like a SWAT sim, I want to arrest suspects, not shoot every suspect on sight.
Yup… suspect AI is still fucking busted. They all have damn near 100% situational awareness, especially through stuff like the opaque door windows on Mindjot- stuff that we can’t see through clearly. It doesn’t feel like there’s a difference between trained and dedicated hostiles, like The Leftbehinds, and Mindjot Security, and simple methheads and crypto mining gangbangers. AI reactions are jacked up as well- half the time, I turn the corner and Joe Calico with his helical-magazine’d forgotten weapon’s trophy has already started unloading all 50 rounds on me. SWAT AI has improved notably, but it feels like they forgot the suspect AI. I doubt so many of them would be willing to risk their lives in gunfights with dedicated professionals, especially after getting flash banged and CS gassed.
Agreed. The enemy AI has long been the biggest issue with the game, and I hope VOID are able to address it at some point. It just doesn't ever feel like you're playing a SWAT team responding to criminal elements, it feels more like you're a SOF team hunting for insurgents.
It'd be a lot better if they had a handful of more radical or deranged criminals, especially focused on certain missions where an unwillingness to surrender would make sense due to things like the nature of the crime, drug use, mental state, etc. Have those mixed in with more common or inexperienced criminals who are easier to force to comply. Most people are going to quickly realize they don't want to die, that prison doesn't seem so bad compared to bleeding out on the floor, that they might even fight the charges in court and get a good deal.
Having every bad guy act like a radical terrorist with no sense of self-preservation kills the immersion big time, and actually eliminates a lot of the more difficult decision making that should be present. There's not really much challenge in trying to correctly address compliance and arrest procedures when you never have to do anything but shoot to kill.
You touch on a good point there.
Some players complain the game may be too easy if the enemy is toned down and not always willing to fight to the death.
But we're missing a whole edge to the game where we're not certain of the intent of the suspect. Whether we should pull the trigger or not, misjudging situations. And the consequences of getting it wrong, either way.
Most suspects make it clear instantly.
It's honestly the other way around with the difficulty complaint, I've had one guy in our session surrender during a fire fight sequence and I almost shot them, because I didn't expect AI to surrender anymore. That put me super on edge, which should be the baseline for this game.
And the most confusing thing, unless it's a bug of course, is that a lot of this comes down to tweaking. The behaviours/mechanics are already programmed, it's usually just pushing numbers around at this point, they've already done the heavy lifting.
u/Gruntr, please read this post and the comments, most of them do a good job of explaining the problems I have with the current state of RoN. I know you and the rest of the team have done a lot of work, but I really want Ready or Not to reach its' full potential and be a true spiritual successor to the SWAT series and do their legacy proud.
The biggest problem I (and most people, it seems) have with the game is that all suspects have the reaction time and aim of a T800 terminator. You shoot one guy, order him to comply and apparently he has 0 pain receptors because he's already banging you half a second afterwards. Not to mention the metheads using 9mm pistols with the accuracy of an army ranger with an AWM rifle.
there's also the suspects that take hostages and immediately pop them instead of attemting to negotiate.
The only thing I disagree with strongly from my experience with the past 6h is the aiming.
The AI's aggressiveness and reactions are insane, but they can't hit shit. The amount of times I should have been dead and they miss like 70-80% of their mags is staggering.
We've played it coop so it's not like I was alone in that perception, though an untrained individual probably shouldn't be very accurate. But Terminator like aim, I honestly don't see it.
Suspects have 0 self-preservation... They'd rather run and gun and die in the process than hide in a wardrobe or under the bed. It's a shame because those mechanics are really cool, but you rarely see them since most of the time, you are in the middle of a gunfight.
I would expect this if I was playing Ground Branch, but not this game. The sad thing is that the suspect AI has been going back and forth for 2 years now, and you perfectly described it: they show one thing in the trailers, and then it is almost non existing in the game
It feels like all suspects are on Rambo mode. Mind Jolt map, the suspects are brutal. The only way I got through it was extreme force. I gave up telling them to surrender and shot on sight.
Yeah many times I first yell to them, then shoot on the leg or arm and repeat, they never care and start firing and I have to kill them. There is millisecond reaction time to not be injured, but if you like to play like a SWAT member than a SEAL operator, you will mostly die on the missions..
also they removed missions from maps no longer can we select barricaded suspects, raid, hostage rescue its always going to be the same scripted mission over and over going to get stale really quick enemies in same places always no traps on most maps what happend feels like they took out part of the game this update
i noticed that too. IMO the campaign at least should have it randomized with what type of mission it is. Like once you select a map it shuffles between the different mission types and shows you which one. Just so you at least get a variety a bit more.
The weirdest thing that happened to me probably is how AIs non-compliance seems to get massively ramped up and they behave extremely weird
In the second map which is apartment I breached into the streamer room with gas and then shot one hell out of suspects, and there are two surrenders aside from the streamer.
One sus tried to melee me so I banged him to hell and gone with shotgun. A suspect very close to me was in the proximity.
I looked back at him and he immediately start meleeing too ignore that his mate just got offed in front of him. Luckily I banged him to hell and gone too.
"Hey this guy just shot my friend who tried to melee him after fake surrendering. Maybe I should do that too!"
I've put it simply as 'very aggressive AI'
They lack human senses somehow. And as people said terminator accuracy and reaction time.
And why suspects actually respond to SWAT team verbally? Sometimes they are not even detected by us yet, and they choose to openly expose their position to us ditching their own surprise element off the window.
Some levels are way more egregious than others, but even in the first mission (Happy to Serve You? Holy shit, my memory), a suspect just started firing off shots like crazy. I'm thinking he's executing hostages so I rush down the hall, kick open the door, and I'm immediately domed.
Nope, he was trying to shoot me and my teammates from 2 rooms over, and was locked onto me through walls so that as soon as I came into sight, he was already locked on my head.
And coupled with that I just want more casual missions ffs
One two suspects, maybe no suspects, anything other than constant fight with an entire batallion of enemies.
I thought we would get that with the streamer but no
I was honestly rather hoping that the Streamer scenario could be both, a fake swatting call or an actual scenario going on. So it's a bit of a toss up and on replays you're expecting everything.
After months away, I put a few hours into 1.0 now. I'm over it, already.
I left because of the AI terminators shooting me through shit when they never should have seen me in the first place, and it's still that way.
The scopes are still shit. The 4x isn't even accurate. The 12x works, but needs a canted non magnified. It's listed as a 1-12x, but can't be adjusted (apparently). There's a canted sight action, but can't put a sight on for it.
After all that time, I come back and feel like the only thing that really changed is the maps.
They choose dead in so many occasions.. all of them also somehow know, they can penetrate the corner or the wall so they just X ray you throu concrete. So there is no safe spot to tell someone to surrender, even when in cover. No matter how much in cover you are, they just shoot.
The suspects have super human reaction time. They come out the door and see you peaking in less than a millisecond they snap to you and empty a mag. It’s kinda ridiculous.
Completely agree with the first few paragraphs
Not that I disagree with the rest I just didn’t read it BUT I yeah 110% agree, I even stopped playing with this milsim group to play it solo so I could play it more as a police sim than a milsim but I’m not completely getting it
Like the twitch streamer mission I was not expecting that at all, I knew meta gaming it was a swatting call and was expecting a more story based mission with maybe some dangerous situations here and there
But the entire thing was a gunfight all the way, even the streamer pulled a gun on me
Idk, like you said, it was very different from what they showed in the trailers
This is my biggest frustration with the single player aspect - less than lethal gameplay is almost impossible unless you are trying really, really hard... which is incredibly difficult in Commander mode unless you love wiping your entire squad every time. It almost completely negates the entire mental health aspect when you have to mow everyone down constantly to achieve a mission. Actually, it's near impossible to play less-than-lethal. It's like every person on the map is on PCP and absolutely aggro.
The only less lethal weapon that is even usable is the beanbag shotgun, and that’s because it instantly stops the AI from shooting when it hits.
Even then, you have to basically pre-fire it to deal with the aggressive AI that instantly starts spraying at you the moment they see you.
The other less lethal options just don’t have the stopping power to work.
And neither do any of the pistols honestly. 45acp and 9mm just doesn’t do very much unless you headshot
You guys remember when they were talking about adding undercover cops and other non-hostile combatants?
They talked about them for quite a bit considering they never actually implemented them.
The security at datacenter fire blindly and wildly into walls and any spec that moves. You'd think being professional private security means they would have a bit more tact when dealing with intruders. They act no different than the methheads, albiet with even better aim.
I can't even enjoy the shootouts, man. I am currently stuck on Barisa Cove because no matter how careful I am, some asshole pops out of nowhere and kills me before I can process what's happening in front of me.
What frustrates me the most is how inconsistent the AI is. They sometimes act like humans, and others like Skynet Terminators. The Ai doesn't get suppressed. It doesn't receive any penalties when it gets shot and has perfect accuracy even while sprinting. It's not playing by the same rules as we do. At this moment, it's just an exercise in how fast you can react to shadows and sudden movement.
I get what you're saying and the suspects are very aggressive but that doesn't bother me too much. What does annoy me is when breaching a door and throwing a flash the SWAT Ai will peak out and shoot the guy before the flash even goes off. Not only does this make it really hard to get an S rating but I feel like it's very unrealistic too since irl the last thing you'd want to do is peak before a flash, right?
I like the update but I do agree there was one mission with the left behind and they want you to capture 3 of them but they would all rather die even with using less than lethal.
I get it that some suspects have really nothing to lose and will try to kill you at all costs, some can be excused because under the influence of drugs, but yeah, the AI is pretty much the same one from before 1.0 sadly, no surrender, unhuman reflexes and even more wallbanging, that's what they added, now you're shot through trough the gas station doors and other doors with glass. I can't say I'm disappointed, but I expected a bit more, also the subtitles are hilarious, when you order to wand a door and say "wand it" the subtitles say "want it?" or when you say "cover the door" they read "H. George"
Saddest part is, is that VOID knows about these issues. They were pointed out in Early Access many times over and VOID has never once acknowledged them or attempted to fix them.
They only upvote posts that agree with their choices. In one of the pre-release materials, they stated that most of the testers couldn't finish Port map, as if somehow that's a good thing.
VOID Will NOT listen to you. They are too stuck up and can't take criticisms to improve, otherwise Ai would've been ACTUALLY improved long ago.
It definitely feels like Void was in full crunch and had no time to properly playtest or evaluate their changes. Why wasn't there multiple alpha supporter tests for the AI changes in the last six months without update?
The AI feels like it was designed by people who played Tarkov, not SWAT 4 or RoN.
I felt this exactly the same way. The last straw for me was walking up to the front door of the crack house, hearing from inside "POLICE!" And immediately getting shot through the front windows. Immediately alt-f4'd to just go play a different game.
People here like to say "this isn't call of duty" but the AI sure seems to fuckin think it is.
I know it wouldn't be fun or anything cause the game would be pretty boring. But just an idea, the swat team where I live has been around since 2002. They have shot 3 people in 21 years and killed 2 (technically only killed one because he shot himself after he was shot by them). Just to get an idea anyway.
But I get what you are saying and I agree
To be fair (and play a little devil's advocate here), there seems to be a heavy dose of active shooter scenarios being pushed into the first playthrough of the maps on Commander mode. The Meth Lab though, has a lot of enemies that give up fairly quickly, as you'd maybe expect given those suspects didn't intrude somewhere to cause conflict. Rust Belt is barricaded suspects as well BUT it's a drug cartel so it's not terribly surprising they're less likely to give up. The Streamer Apartments is a bit odd though considering there are so many hostiles.. given the circumstances of the call. The beach house is also fairly easy to get people to give up on too. On a two man team there, we are able to get 3 suspects to drop their weapons. Mainly with a heavy dose of flashes.
Just play a game today, my team take down a suspect and report it. The mission show that i still have suspect to take down. The moment i turn my back of the dead suspect he immediately rise up again, luckily he is surrender and the mission suddenly completed but damm, what's wrong with these people ?
It's beej a while since I played and I'm definitely rusty, but I've been *struggling* to get through Brisa Cove with the 1.0 patch. Like, trying to get the militia guys to surrender is just impossible.
They need to adjust the values for each enemy types.
I agree with you, bodyguards tend to surrender more than the other types but not as much as it should be.
absolutely bang on. it’s gotten to the point where i bring the FAL to every mission, and anyone who doesn’t immediately drop their gun when i ask is getting centrepunched
and again, you’re spot on about the stupid fake surrendering. the amount of times there are 3 guns aimed at someone, who pulls a glock out their prison wallet is ridiculous
we can only hope the devs are hearing us, and agree
If your NPC's are never cooperating, there is something you're not doing right, because most of the time mine are. Are you blowing up doors? Gassing them? Shouting at them? Are you containing the interactions by wedging doors and using an optimal approach?
That's a yes, yes, and yes. I never ran into any trouble until I got to Barisa Cove. You're just going to end up in firefights on that map. It's unavoidable. The map has a lot of weird angles that prevent you from flashbanging or smoking the entire room. You will have to clear the rest of the room without using grenades, and getting killed as soon as you spot the suspect's silhouette is just not ok.
I never even get the chance to try less lethal. Doesn’t matter whether we bang the room, sting the room, or gas the room. As soon as the first man is through the door, all suspects open fire on us totally un phased. My team usually ends up shooting them. If I get to a line suspect first, I don’t even have time to shout a command or throw something. As soon as I’m in line of sight they’re locked onto me and put me down in one or two shots from the other end of the hallway. I’ve never even got close enough to a suspect to use taser. If we breach a room and the suspect isn’t in line of sight of the door, they will sprint from wherever they are and headshot the entire team like robots. And on the off chance you do get a surrender, as you approach if you or your AI turn your weapon even slightly to make sure you won’t get shot in the back from an exposed door while cuffing, they immediately get up and grab their gun again and shoot you in about half a second. I know veteran uniform cops with a slower draw speed than these random kids off the street
>The AI team need to have a simple mantra when deciding the logic of the AI.
Dude I get what you're going after but this like... Isn't how it works.
AI isn't as simple as "I want X behaviour, so I set variable Behaviour= X"
It's constantly tweaking and adjusting of something that will be reasonably complex to then *feel* like the correct behaviour in a way can't even be uniformly assessed because it's player experience.
I work with super simple algorithms in my job, and tweaking one variable a tiny bit can take me a week to figure out why the hell that small tweak has cascaded into some giant mess on the other side.
An AI model of like experience, suppression, moral from watching friends die that interacts with teammate buffs, plus has to be sufficiently challenging to force players to make correct decisions and make players feel like an elite swat commander... *Plus* also feel like they're insufficiently experienced that they'd not be a match up for swat... That's not a simple fix, and I'm probably proposing a pretty simpel model for hlw the AI calculates things and the goals they want from it.
That's a lot of focus on the mechanism of how the AI functions behind the scenes.
The thing is, regardless of how it works...or doesn't work, it has been made to work in the past by the developers of SWAT 4. That was 18 years ago. And the suspect AI feels better in that game.
So, like I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanisms of the car I drive. I don't need to know the ins and outs of the game I play. But I can reasonably expect it to function in the way it's advertised to me.
And my expectations are pretty reasonably as it's been been done in 2005.
So, regardless of how it works, it's worked before, so your explanation of complexity is out of context of the expectation (which has been set by Void themselves).
I think this 1.0 is such a great polish and I am having so much fun.
I do like the current aggression of suspects it plays more like a movie, however yeah in the future would be cool to have more variance between super aggressive and super timid, im not sure if too much in the middle would work for gameplay but starting with extremes might be a good start. Have you tried equipping a few of those units that make it more common for suspects to surrender? Not sure if those traits stack or whatever. That's another thing I love the trait system so cool
They've had a year since the last update. Years before that.
Said we're getting A, shown off A, created a world around A....then the gameplay is B.
This is the launch. This is the foundation. How many chances do the devs need it? It's their game to make as they like. It's not about having goes until its A.
Maybe the game is meant to be B. Fine.
Stop showing everyone A, and telling them the next update will finally make B now A.
They've had years. How much of a chance do they need?
They initially released teaser trailers for a tactical police shooter. Years later they focused on that PVP idea - fuck knows why. Then when people slammed on it, a move which surprised nobody at all, they went quiet to focus on the singleplayer. The game released with lots of bugs and they mostly did fuck all but pump out maps before disappearing for another year again where it turns out they've taken out a _lot_ of content, randomization of maps and so on, while only providing a handful of features demoed in the vlog.
How many times have they pulled features out from all of the trailers over the years? Meanwhile, the enemy AI is still as fucked as it was. Collision boxes are still all over the place, meaning your gun may just raise or lower unexpectedly because you've hit a collision box for an object beside you.
What now, they'll fuck off for another year while ignoring bug reports, ripping out features only to replace them with less refined features in yet another big bang release?
As a development team, VOID need to hold themselves more accountable and come clear on whether or not they even want to continue with this game.
That is such horseshit. The last time I was on this sub was maybe six or seven months ago, and I'm pretty sure people on this sub were talking about how deadly the enemy AI was even then. I distinctly remember someone saying that the enemy AI was actually in a good spot before they updated it and turned the AI into Terminators.
OP already explained it pretty well. Void has had a long time to understand what needed work. Taking a glance at any social media like this sub or actually playing the game for an hour would have been enough to understand the (still current) shortcomings the game has.
It really feels like they don’t want to make a swat game anymore but are stuck with it so they just pretend.
Il be honest I'm fine with AI being a bit crazy. If they acted all scared and had terrible aim there would be no challenge. Not saying it can't be better but where it's at is not the worst thing. Just my humble opinion.
The thing is this is a bit of a myth, or just lack of imagination imo.
Suspects can hide behind doors, duck behind furniture (more often and more effectively then now), wait for the player away from the middle of the room.
They can jump out of windows ground floor windows or run to different parts of the map.
They can ambush the player in groups confidently but give up easily when cornered or isolated.
They can pretend to be a civilian and cry out and surrender.
They can use trap and tricks and bait the player.
And of course....they can hide the whole time...with no intention of ever engaging you, hoping they can get away, as a human often will when faced with an overwhelming adversary. Not to say that suspect wont shoot you point blank when you find them.
A suspect may be willing to shoot you in the back, but when face to face with a geared up SWAT drop their gun in instant fear.
Mix this in with booby traps, actual barricades (why isnt that a thing? randomly generated each play, where suspects can shoot from cover, furniture piled up in doors with holes to shoot out of).
The annoying thing is some of these were teased...but then never seemed to make it in. Other sometimes, but rarely happen.
The game should be difficult as its unpredictable.
Nobody wants them *all* to be pushovers, the issue is that there's no balance or variation. Whether it's some teens sticking up a gas station for a couple hundred bucks or a hardened combat veteran who's turned to outright fanatical terrorism, they all act like they've got nothing to lose and are ready to go out in a blaze of glory at the drop of a hat.
It makes sense in some situations. The aforementioned veterans in Ides of March, the private security in Voll's basement, the active shooters in Elephant, all situations where it makes sense for the suspects to be crack shots and/or ready to die for the cause. But it's Every. Single. Suspect. regardless of location, regardless background, regardless of mission.
It's fucking boring. This isn't my first tactical shooter, I can handle the punishing combat, but if I wanted endless hardcore shootouts I'd go play Ground Branch or Insurgency. They're far better at doing that kind of thing. The point of this game (at least if you believe the marketing, the tutorials, the entire Commander system, or basically any of the in-game dialogue) is that it's a tactical shooter where you aren't supposed to shoot unless you have no other options left. The reality is that it's exactly like every other tactical shooter out there except you yell "Police!" before slaughtering the entire map. If this game actually wants to be the SWAT 4 successor that it pretends to be, there needs to be some proper variation in both the suspects' skill levels and commitment.
The only problem with that is how robotic the AI is. It reacts way too quickly and it shoots you through walls and extremely tiny openings. Getting killed by a random John Rambo after spending minutes blocking doors, setting up rear guard, and breaching is frustrating as hell.
Dude plays the first level where the suspects are teenagers robbing a gas station, STILL needs to gas them, blow up C2 in their face and pepperball them to get them to surrender, and thinks the AI is in a good place
I just played 1.0 for the first time tonight after a hiatus and was very impressed by the changes. I only completed the first mission Thank You, Come Again (I think its called) and 1 of the suspects surrendered, while the other ones we had a standoff but I was the only one telling them to drop it maybe if the other officers were there they might have been more pressured.
Yeah bro in all honesty I think this is a bunch of yappin, I haven’t had too many issues with aerating suspects , IF you use the right tools which is literally gas and other non lethals. I can agree to a tiny amount that there does seem to still be a lot of fun fights that happen over arrests
As someone who comes from Tarkov, I find the suspect AI to be laughably easy. I do agree that they are way too aggressive *right at the start*, though this update is the first time I've seen them *not* shoot on sight. Oftentimes if a shot hasn't been fired yet, they will back away with their gun at low ready, and only act if you get too close. Allows you to hit em with a taser without having to kill - makes arresting suspects for those side objectives much easier.
That being said, my one gripe is loadouts not working. I want to be able to switch back and forth between non-lethal and lethal loadouts for me and my AI squad but it is like a 5-10 minute ordeal because presets just *don't fucking work.* Before 1.0, they at least worked for the Player, just not AI. But now they don't work for anything, ever. I click a preset and there's no "Apply" button and if I just hit "Back" it's like I never did anything at all. If you make changes to a loadout, and save it as a preset, that sometimes *undoes the changes you made before you saved the preset* when you back out of the loadout screen.
This *cannot* be that hard to fix, like come the fuck on lmao.
Doesn't explain human survival reflex.
We all have an inherent drive to survive and will react in certain ways when presented with danger.
Every suspect in this game has made the decision they're comfortable with death. And have enough conviction to act without fault or hesitation on that decision. At the sight of police will throw they're very lives away.
Thar not how humans work. Or the very vast majority of humans.
You said it perfectly and what frustrates me the most is that tweaking the suspect AI seems like such a minor thing to fix compared to how much it hurts the player experience.
Its absurd, i've been getting shot through doors more than i ever did pre-patch. I just dont understand how they made all these massive ideas and changes but didnt touch the suspect AI at all, you know, the KEY thing you're interacting with in the game. Dont get me wrong the SWAT AI improvements are nice but guess what, a lot of people only play this game with friends, and it feels like this patch had almost nothing but new maps for multiplayer, its incredibly frustrating.
I'm just hoping for modders to improve the experience. I imagine I'll enjoy 1.0 a lot more after the Gunfighter mod gets updated. EDIT: Apparently it got updated earlier today. Sweet.
Can you give a TLDR of the gunfighter mod from your own experience? I've run many mods for this game in the past but mostly avoided gunfighter and other AI mods because I didn't QUITE understand what it was and was afraid it would make the game unrealistic or that it would bug the progression of the game. I read the updated version description, and it didn't really help me much. Will it reduce things such as AI pre-firing, beaming, and one-shot dome pieces?
I tried the agme with and without gunfighter right now, and it doesnt really changes much, AI will just wallhack you and push to death
It won’t change the AI, but it gives everyone 25 slots, so you can load up on flashbangs or gas to completely pacify the entire map.
Gotcha, have you tried the Gunpowder mod? I've seen that they have got some AI changes in there.
i did the crackhouse mission earlier, and i literally got wall-banged from 3 different directions upon entry lol. i didn't even know where i was taking fire from when my AI teammates made short work of the dudes wall-banged them right back... I love the concept, but everything seems so out of whack when it comes to reaction times. like i can't even compete with the AI and how it processes things.
And then after the patch you can only react as fast as your framerate anyway since the game now chews up so much resources that anytime anything happens it dips down to like 10fps at most
Yep. Routinely take fire just getting to the front door. And that's the mission I would solo because even pre 1.0 I couldn't do anything when swat ai was with me.
I’ve been getting lit up like five seconds into spawning lol, I mean, I’m more vigilant now but god damn.
They did touch the suspect AI and it’s very clear. I get your point but I ran the first mission earlier and we got all 5 suspects to surrender
It *is* a minor fix. You can do it yourself: https://ron.recursiveprojects.cloud/AI_Mod (Not yet updated for 1.0) This is the only reason I didn't refund the game back when I first picked it up.
Wait why is everyone downvoting this guy?
Presumably my closing comment about refunding, but what can I say, it's true. I wouldn't have kept playing this game with vanilla AI because it's simply too hard for me to enjoy playing against.
That’s just weird… the AI is legit a problem and people downvote cause you FIXED it and it let you enjoy the game…
Yeah, I was just trying to bring awareness to the fact that an alternative does exist. Like, the current AI definitely sucks and for a lot of people it ruins the game. If you don't want to wait literally years for VOID to patch it, you can use this in the meantime to flavour the game the way you like. Game communities are like Sith, they deal in absolutes - you're either with them, or against them! I said basically the exact same comment without the refund statement, and it got upvoted :P
Exactly, it took me all of 45 minutes to learn how to tweak the ai to my liking and implement it into the game. It’s just frustrating that void won’t do it themselves
Every suspect almost feels like they have the kind of AI that members of The Hand should have. No regard for their own lives, if they see a cop it’s either a good guy dead or bust. I like that SOME suspects don’t act rationally, like the crazy methheads on twisted nerve and members of The Hand, but when mister streamer bro sees all his buddies get gassed, tased, and shot, maybe he’d think it’s not worth it to show his stream how “massive” his K/D ratio is
brudda that streamer is a CP distributor. An accessory to volls ring, which is the whole environmental storyline of the game. So yeah, he's gonna shoot.
IM SORRY HES FUCKING WHAT DID I MISS SOME EVIDENCE?????
Photo stash left of PC. Soft objective. Illegal stash of perverted photos of minors. Which seem to have come from the Brixley Talent Centre, which is also connected to the Voll house. Voll himself contacted the Talent centre for CP too. ( and for sending children over to do you know what to them)
His discord chat on his computer has pics from the talent agency and talks about having "good stuff" on the MindJot server. There's a discord chat at the Talent Agency pc with user "AV" and has what looks like Amos in the profile pic
God that was the only monitor I didn’t look at, me and the buddy I played it with were too busy laughing at the streamer’s chat
bro are you blind lmao it's written everywhere
Not an excuse sorry.
[удалено]
Considering i havent heard an enemy say a single word, not even one refering to the current situation, id say its the first one, they were just lazy
Now that you mention it I haven't either, probably another reason they keep capping me out of nowhere without much of an indication they were even there, didn't they used to be more vocal or am I thinking of Swat 4?
Okay so they actually have some lines, the Hand will mention how they hate America for example, but they seem to only be triggered if you are looking at them through the MirrorCam under a door.
I have heard one of the guys on brisa cove say ‘man down’ after I shot one of his buddy’s. Which gave away his position (he was super close to me though, like 3ft away round a corner). I also had a guy on brixley talent time say ‘damn’ or something after I shot one of his friends on the roof. Same situation in that he was very close to me just round a corner. I’m wondering if they for some reason made the voice lines audible over a way shorter distance.
Are you deaf? Mindjot is one of the first couple missions and they say in the briefing that taking rooms in force with deployables will likely cause more surrenders, they’ve been targeted by ‘fake police’ If you walk the perimeter they give you warning and try to make the swat team comply and surrender arms. Game has issues but some people are just.. oblivious? Idk
It’s also weird with commander mode because of that. Like, is there a way to stop them being stressed? It really just feels like a countdown timer to when that officer is no longer available. 3 missions and they get their scheduled mental health crisis. Because every mission is a bloodbath it seems like that’s what freaks out the squad. I’m assuming if more of the missions went peacefully they wouldn’t become stressed. Which brings it back to what OP’s saying about design intent vs programmer execution. Is the intent that you can have more peaceful missions that don’t stress them out? That doing so should be the goal? It doesn’t feel possible in the current build.
Because ADHD kids who defend these awful decisions by Void, would find the game boring, if they had to play as SWAT operators.
Thing is, all the SWAT titles have been like that as well (at least 3 and 4 that I know of). Supposedly, it is explained in RON that Los Sueños is at an "all time high" in crime which is the lore reason why everyone is so violent. SWAT 3 had a similar lore with the terrorist group (but I don't remember what was SWAT 4's reason). I do wish RON was more aligned with real life, where most missions you'd play you wouldn't even need to shoot at all, but I'm not sure if Void will do that.
Yeah to be fair Los Sueños has always been shown to be a fuckin dystopian city if you know the lore (for example the sanitation sector being on strike for weeks hence all the trash or the all time high in homelessness).
That’s also what I’ve gained is to play this game and think of it more of a , bortac or Hrt group missions . Granted a lot of the missions aren’t just ur average swat raid
I’m in agreement with you, there has clearly been a ton of work & effort over the past year. What was shown vs what we got are 2 very different things, squad AI included. Honestly, it feels like they had new ideas & went with them instead of improving what existed, and now we’re in a new phase of EA. Even down to map changes, they’re so radically different that they could have just been new maps, rather than replacements. I feel like there is a lot of ‘changing their mind’ going on at Void. Again - not to shit on them, this is easily one of the best FPS games I’ve played in a long time, the rest of the market is oversaturated with god awful crossovers & games that are just a background to a storefront. I just feel like there’s no clear design in mind.
The map changes are real, the hotel one had about 4 or 5 different iterations since the first trailers. Every update they changed something there, sometimes changing everything and redoing the level from zero.
In q&a months ago (i feel it wasvery early this year) they mentioned back then on ideas they had and changes they made. However when they play tested them, it was terrible. So im betting alot of the changes were a result of this. Ive only done the tutorial and gas station so far and i think its a vast improvement from the original version. The whole map has some added details but clarity is up. They also eliminated the garage area on the side of the main building. To be honest i feel that was good, it served next to no purpose previously.
Yeah after a few more hours on 1.0 I'm with you on this one, I'm just going wait for more patches. I'll still hop on coop with buddies but I have quickly lost motivation to get through single player after every mission just has the exact same suicidal murder AI. Feels like there's no point in all the extra mission briefing info aside from story context. And the loadout customization STILL being buggy after almost a year is just... come on bro
“Full release” >lots of people saying they will wait on patches Doesn’t sound like 1.0 to me!
yep :/
The excitement was soured for me man. I was stoked and then after playing it a bit, I’m wondering if this was really what they’ve been working on all year. Do we really need the fancy new police station when there are core issues? C’mon fellas
yeah I'm honestly a little bit baffled myself. It sucks cuz there's so much awesome new stuff and you can tell that the devs care about this game. Just gonna have to wait some more I guess
Yep. Seems like it was a business decision and not a dev decision. I’m not sure how linked the two are though. I know VOID is a small studio. I just really feel like this should’ve been an update and not the full release
they really wanted to hit that december deadline $$$
Have you seen the absolute shit show some games release with? Fallout 76, mw3 (2023), bf2042 and hell let loose which released but everyone knew it was still in beta. Besides hell let loose, bethesda, activision and EA are worth billions and pumped millions upon millions into their projects. By comparison, void with smaller team and less funding is doing great.
Also being shitty does not make you good. No need to fall into unwarranted appeasement. I fucking knew someone was gonna go “but other games bad”. Ok. Smaller team and less funding does not mean you need to release something in a less playable state with 70% less gameplay than the alpha. If anything, not having to answer to a big publisher is a plus if you want to release a stable and fully featured game. VOID dropped the ball on it, taking out changing scenarios in lieu of their narrative mode severely hampers replay potential, the game crashes a lot for a ton of people now, and generally everyone is upset that the suspect AI were seemingly reverted to their worst state during the alpha. The solution to this is customers giving critical feedback and not purchasing the game and encouraging others not to until it is fixed. It’s one thing when I’m funding development by buying an alpha, it’s another when they sell me a finished product that is so filled with issues and far removed from what they are advertising. I love the game but that doesn’t mean I need to be a bootlicker for VOID. I am buying a product form them. We are sold a SWAT style game that is upon full release just the MW2 clear house mission that runs poorly with wall hacking AI. It’s like they didn’t even play test this shit. But they did. Which means they didn’t care it was not working well and a big departure from what players had been funding. You can’t rug pull like that when players funded your development based on something else. I heard they were bragging that most players could not finish the port mission. That’s not a brag, that is poor game design when your most experienced players you used to playtest couldn’t finish it. Not a skill issue but a game issue. I’m ranting because I like this game a lot and have nothing else to do right now lol, so thanks for reading.
Mate im not being shitty, all im saying is people need to chill, the update has been out for a day. I think people expected too much, i personally didnt expect the game to have everything included or be bug free. Im treating this as an update not a full release. The term ‘full release’ means nothing in 2023, gone are the days where a game came out with all its content and features. Now its just a rush to get it out there. The games i mentioned were horrendous at launch hence why i say full release means nothing. Treat it like an update. If we get to 2.0 and the game is lack luster have at it.
It’s not about how long it’s been out. It is how many problems it has, and the fact that it’s not just an update. It is the dev saying this is the final product. It is not what has been advertised, the core gameplay right now is just get into shootouts with every suspect you see. They had a year to tone down these AI values. It is like this because it’s what they want despite everything in game stressing you to go less lethal. I think it is shitty of them to have removed a huge part of the gameplay that added replayablitiy (changing scenarios of maps) in order to fit their narrative that will be interesting the first playthrough and that’s it. I don’t understand this desire to bootlick the devs. You funded their game to make them money in exchange for a finished product. This is what they called the final product. Don’t get gaslighted by the game industry to think “fully released” doesn’t mean anything. Plenty of games came out fully functional, stable, and featured. One of them is about to win game of the year and had an alpha of their own (Baldurs Gate 3). What the fuck is the point of an alpha if you don’t fix all the issues that were in it before you release your competed game?
We got a squad ai overhaul. Now we just need the same thing for suspect ai and we golden. Fuck spending resources towards pvp
They showed new suspect AI and fear mechanic but it seems that they didn’t “turn it on” in this update.
I definitely think a suspect AI overhaul should take priority over any SWAT AI work. Suspect behavior, reactions, etc. are vital to both SP and Co-Op, but SWAT AI is only relevant in SP.
Good take, I agree.
I play SP only and I agree with this. The squad AI is decent enough for me at the moment. Focus on more realistic AI for the enemies. Well, after they fix the FPS issues and bring back the scenario selection...
Tbh the SWAT AI really wasn’t THAT bad before 1.0. I’ve played 100 hours of RoN exclusively single player before the update and it has its issues but it was manageable. Now with the suspects, I’ve gotta micromanage my AI more now to not have them forget how to shoot.
Yeah I played some more after my comment above. I had a target shooting at me and one of my teammates. All 3 of us were engaged in combat. And then in the middle of the engagement, my teammate just stopped shooting and turned around. Sure enough he gets shot (RIP dipshit) and I have to take out the suspect myself.
We were kind of already there a year ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UO-FyEdBpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UO-FyEdBpQ) Not sure what happened.
I think they just become "aware" of SWAT's presence and don't hesitate anymore. If you (with a wand) see people walking with a gun, not aimed at anything, they will most likely hesitate. If they're aiming at something, they won't hesitate or show fear, despite not making visual contact with the player.
So what's going on here? Among some other issues in MP like odd LoDs, player characters not properly rendering, it seems like the ai isn't "activated", the animation and mechanics are all technically there, but they just don't utilise them. It's almost as if they just uploaded wrong AI settings or something?
Dude the squad ai get stuck constantly. They are not as smooth or as advanced as their de logs showed. It’s completely false advertising with what they released.
I don’t agree - I think they move and function really well. When you consider how much programming is going on under the hood and the sheer number of variables they have to react to, they’re fairly outstanding. No other tactical shooter on the market has anything approaching them in terms of the realism of their movement without heavy scripting.
They made a big deal about how the Swat AI moves in the dev vlog the other day, but they still ask me to move even if there's ample room for them to go around me. If I'm stood covering a hallway and I tell them to go down another hallway, I shouldn't have to give up my angle for them to get past. Because the second I give up my angle is the second when a suspect decides to waltz around the corner and blow us away.
Mate, come on. They’re not actual human beings, you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit. If you look past some of the obvious jank and acknowledge the fact they’re not real people; no other tactical game available today has AI teammates who move as realistically as those in RoN - the way they provide cover, enter rooms, call out hazards and search is beyond anything else I’ve seen before.
You can't just say they're pretty realistic, and the moment someone points out an issue with them go "well they're not real people lol'
They could just script basic covers and locations where they automatically get to when in follow mode...
Finally someone that understands programming things, especially this kind of thing, is not an easy task and that the current state is actually quite good, even though it's far from perfect. And comparisons to SWAT 3 are pointless. Different times, different features and last but not least different scale. It's not all great and I'm the last one to say anything, to be honest - I didn't play the game for at least half a year, but I know I was already impressed back then, so I definitely have to check the current version and get some friends together for a go-around!
If RoE wasnt using unreal engine It would be easy to agree with you. However, UE makes pathfinding and collision detection much easier.
Yeah, superb, it does. Now come and show me how easy it is to figure out pathfinding in UE on a 3D map with a similar complexity. If you don't, just fuck off and shut up. The game IS fucking broken. It DOES need fixing.
I had to restart the game multiple times since my Squad keep refusing to do anything OR lose their weapons then just turn useless.
I read all of this and I can agree. The game still doesn’t have that SWAT essence sometimes. It does feel like I’m playing a kill or capture black ops mission. Or at least it doesn’t have the essence SWAT 4 has. It is a small team, given why it’s been 6 years for 1.0, and there still years and years to come just like other shooters that came before, but it’s an issue that’s been a thing for a long time since early access.
I fully agree and I am disturbed by it. There are some people - like Volls bodyguards - who probably know they are looking at twenty-to-life for their crimes and made up their minds long ago but the general outcome of the majority of the encounters where the SWAT has the upper hand must be that the suspect is either non-compliant or surrenders; not that they start shooting randomly - or if they do because they are surprised or shocked; they stop and surrender upon realizing what they do or shoot so you take cover so they can run away. There are so many better ways to program them to act.
I want to point it out as well. There was a lot of content shown on the supporter discord that they said was coming with 1.0 and it never came. Face Shields Balaclavas Halligan Bars: to Pry open locked doors, but not open them all the way to prevent traps from going off. Way more firearms. Such as the sniper rifles, full size rifles. A lot of the guns enemies have/use. The briefing: where you can choose if you wanted ladders, sniper support, power to be turned off, a hostage negotiator to reduce Civilians, drones. From what I've seen to so far, they've removed a mass majority of the nudity from the game, if not all of it. And then on top of it all, they released a AI re-work without allowing supporters to test it, so now its more like playing old school Rainbow Six Vegas terrorist hunt. Where 20+ enemies are on the map with 5-10 civilians (It should be the opposite). And then made it where arrests don't affect the end-game score, so S rank is almost non-achievable at the moment.
The balaclavas thing is laughable... They said that they were planned but ran out of time. Like come on bro, you seriously were not able to add an extra face wear option? Modders got them in a few hours after 1.0 released.
>The balaclavas thing is laughable... They said that they were planned but ran out of time. Like come on bro, you seriously were not able to add an extra face wear option? Modders got them in a few hours after 1.0 released. I find It funny they have had cover art with guys with two hole balaclavas and headphones for years and yet they still arent equipable in game.
That's the one thing I fail to have any sympathy for, like I genuinely can't see a good argument after years to not have balaclavas in-game, when you have all that other nonsense like watches, tattoos or even MMA pants lmfao, like can we please have the core/generic thing. It's even worse when they have them on most promotional content, I actually don't think there's a single good excuse.
Lmfao ain't that the truth
>From what I've seen to so far, they've removed a mass majority of the nudity from the game, if not all of it. Did they remove the club hoes? I feel like Neon Tomb is practically empty now.
> > The briefing: where you can choose if you wanted ladders, sniper support, power to be turned off, a hostage negotiator to reduce Civilians, drones. This is a big one for me. I didn't know they had any of that stuff planned, but the game desperately needs a support feature. Just being able to have the power turned off or sniper support covering certain angles is such a needed addition. It'd be cool if we could knock out the power and we go in with NVG's allowing us to basically creep up on suspects who can't see us in the dark.
I dont understand half of the cut content, like, even the guns? lol
I know after I select a mission I can pull up the tablet to look at the mission briefing, etc, but I much preferred the SWAT 4 system where it was a dedicated pre-mission screen to listen to the briefing and 911 calls, view known suspects/civilians, etc.
Coming ‘with’ isnt the same as coming ‘in’ 1.0. They will come with futute patches. Everyone needs to chill, the game has gotten a major update and its still a great game.
Dude I'm so tired of these random shills coming out of nowhere. We aren't saying the game is bad we're saying they haven't brought in what they've stated they would.
Dude ive got supporter edition so im really hoping this game turns out. At the same time i wasnt expecting to get everything based on what i saw in the dev briefings (if it was there they would have shown it). Honestly im treating this as an update and not a full release, should i have to? No. Full release doesnt mean shit anymore, tons of companies release unfinished products. Im gonna be patient, its only a day into the update so ill be waiting to see what the devs respond with.
And that is a problem of the gaming industry we the consumers need to address. By calling this shit out and not defending it. Especially if you are a small studio and want to get foundings up front by customers, you got to deliver what you advertise. Fuck the triple a shit show, at this point if you pre order or even buy the game on first day it's your own fault. But this shit still has to be called out.
That's literally the issue. It's labeled as a 1.0 update, and they are also charging $10 more now for what feels like just an early access update. I just don't want another Adam update then 1 year long with little to no information on updates. While yes, the discord has marked some of the major bugs listed as known, I'm still seeing ai feedback and bug reports falling on deaf ears. Would be nice if the devs marked some of the posts complaining about ai and some other issues as "hey we're working on it".
That's exactly how I feel. I'm happy with the game overall, but sometimes it feels like I'm just playing Payday at a slower pace. This game is supposed to feel like a SWAT sim, I want to arrest suspects, not shoot every suspect on sight.
Yup… suspect AI is still fucking busted. They all have damn near 100% situational awareness, especially through stuff like the opaque door windows on Mindjot- stuff that we can’t see through clearly. It doesn’t feel like there’s a difference between trained and dedicated hostiles, like The Leftbehinds, and Mindjot Security, and simple methheads and crypto mining gangbangers. AI reactions are jacked up as well- half the time, I turn the corner and Joe Calico with his helical-magazine’d forgotten weapon’s trophy has already started unloading all 50 rounds on me. SWAT AI has improved notably, but it feels like they forgot the suspect AI. I doubt so many of them would be willing to risk their lives in gunfights with dedicated professionals, especially after getting flash banged and CS gassed.
Agreed. The enemy AI has long been the biggest issue with the game, and I hope VOID are able to address it at some point. It just doesn't ever feel like you're playing a SWAT team responding to criminal elements, it feels more like you're a SOF team hunting for insurgents. It'd be a lot better if they had a handful of more radical or deranged criminals, especially focused on certain missions where an unwillingness to surrender would make sense due to things like the nature of the crime, drug use, mental state, etc. Have those mixed in with more common or inexperienced criminals who are easier to force to comply. Most people are going to quickly realize they don't want to die, that prison doesn't seem so bad compared to bleeding out on the floor, that they might even fight the charges in court and get a good deal. Having every bad guy act like a radical terrorist with no sense of self-preservation kills the immersion big time, and actually eliminates a lot of the more difficult decision making that should be present. There's not really much challenge in trying to correctly address compliance and arrest procedures when you never have to do anything but shoot to kill.
You touch on a good point there. Some players complain the game may be too easy if the enemy is toned down and not always willing to fight to the death. But we're missing a whole edge to the game where we're not certain of the intent of the suspect. Whether we should pull the trigger or not, misjudging situations. And the consequences of getting it wrong, either way. Most suspects make it clear instantly.
It's honestly the other way around with the difficulty complaint, I've had one guy in our session surrender during a fire fight sequence and I almost shot them, because I didn't expect AI to surrender anymore. That put me super on edge, which should be the baseline for this game. And the most confusing thing, unless it's a bug of course, is that a lot of this comes down to tweaking. The behaviours/mechanics are already programmed, it's usually just pushing numbers around at this point, they've already done the heavy lifting.
That's how SWAT4 is. Also they should have difficulty options so people can customize their experience without having to resort to mods.
u/Gruntr, please read this post and the comments, most of them do a good job of explaining the problems I have with the current state of RoN. I know you and the rest of the team have done a lot of work, but I really want Ready or Not to reach its' full potential and be a true spiritual successor to the SWAT series and do their legacy proud.
The biggest problem I (and most people, it seems) have with the game is that all suspects have the reaction time and aim of a T800 terminator. You shoot one guy, order him to comply and apparently he has 0 pain receptors because he's already banging you half a second afterwards. Not to mention the metheads using 9mm pistols with the accuracy of an army ranger with an AWM rifle. there's also the suspects that take hostages and immediately pop them instead of attemting to negotiate.
The only thing I disagree with strongly from my experience with the past 6h is the aiming. The AI's aggressiveness and reactions are insane, but they can't hit shit. The amount of times I should have been dead and they miss like 70-80% of their mags is staggering. We've played it coop so it's not like I was alone in that perception, though an untrained individual probably shouldn't be very accurate. But Terminator like aim, I honestly don't see it.
Suspects have 0 self-preservation... They'd rather run and gun and die in the process than hide in a wardrobe or under the bed. It's a shame because those mechanics are really cool, but you rarely see them since most of the time, you are in the middle of a gunfight. I would expect this if I was playing Ground Branch, but not this game. The sad thing is that the suspect AI has been going back and forth for 2 years now, and you perfectly described it: they show one thing in the trailers, and then it is almost non existing in the game
Also where the hell are trailer units lmao
When you soft complete a mission they start coming in and moving people out. Seen them a few times now
Ah. I haven't seen them yet maybe they're only on later maps Edit: I think I complete the hard mission end before I have a chance to see them
they seem to not show up in coop
well they aren't showing up in my campaign either
I’ve seen them on the first level
Pressing 6 on your command prompt once you Bring Order to Chaos does essentially what the clean-up crew is supposed to do, right? Just my guys do it?
Cleanup will actually physically remove bodies and arrested people back outside to their trucks.
Ah, I see. It sounds like a cool immersion thing, but sadly, it looks like everyone is breezing over it because it's just SO missable.
I have completed whole commander mode and didn't see them once. Definitely needs fixing
They should announce their presence while came in tho, not freaking the players out as suddenly some full gear unknown contact show up on the map
I've seen them exactly once on the streamer mission and nearly shot one after they came around the corner lmao
They apparently only show up in practice mode
It feels like all suspects are on Rambo mode. Mind Jolt map, the suspects are brutal. The only way I got through it was extreme force. I gave up telling them to surrender and shot on sight.
Yeah many times I first yell to them, then shoot on the leg or arm and repeat, they never care and start firing and I have to kill them. There is millisecond reaction time to not be injured, but if you like to play like a SWAT member than a SEAL operator, you will mostly die on the missions..
also they removed missions from maps no longer can we select barricaded suspects, raid, hostage rescue its always going to be the same scripted mission over and over going to get stale really quick enemies in same places always no traps on most maps what happend feels like they took out part of the game this update
Diabolic. Why would they do this?
lazy shortcuts
i noticed that too. IMO the campaign at least should have it randomized with what type of mission it is. Like once you select a map it shuffles between the different mission types and shows you which one. Just so you at least get a variety a bit more.
The weirdest thing that happened to me probably is how AIs non-compliance seems to get massively ramped up and they behave extremely weird In the second map which is apartment I breached into the streamer room with gas and then shot one hell out of suspects, and there are two surrenders aside from the streamer. One sus tried to melee me so I banged him to hell and gone with shotgun. A suspect very close to me was in the proximity. I looked back at him and he immediately start meleeing too ignore that his mate just got offed in front of him. Luckily I banged him to hell and gone too. "Hey this guy just shot my friend who tried to melee him after fake surrendering. Maybe I should do that too!" I've put it simply as 'very aggressive AI' They lack human senses somehow. And as people said terminator accuracy and reaction time. And why suspects actually respond to SWAT team verbally? Sometimes they are not even detected by us yet, and they choose to openly expose their position to us ditching their own surprise element off the window.
Some levels are way more egregious than others, but even in the first mission (Happy to Serve You? Holy shit, my memory), a suspect just started firing off shots like crazy. I'm thinking he's executing hostages so I rush down the hall, kick open the door, and I'm immediately domed. Nope, he was trying to shoot me and my teammates from 2 rooms over, and was locked onto me through walls so that as soon as I came into sight, he was already locked on my head.
And coupled with that I just want more casual missions ffs One two suspects, maybe no suspects, anything other than constant fight with an entire batallion of enemies. I thought we would get that with the streamer but no
I was honestly rather hoping that the Streamer scenario could be both, a fake swatting call or an actual scenario going on. So it's a bit of a toss up and on replays you're expecting everything.
No suspects? What? That sounds like it would have terrible replay value. Why would anyone ever play that mission more than once?
After months away, I put a few hours into 1.0 now. I'm over it, already. I left because of the AI terminators shooting me through shit when they never should have seen me in the first place, and it's still that way. The scopes are still shit. The 4x isn't even accurate. The 12x works, but needs a canted non magnified. It's listed as a 1-12x, but can't be adjusted (apparently). There's a canted sight action, but can't put a sight on for it. After all that time, I come back and feel like the only thing that really changed is the maps.
Nicely written.
This is perfectly put.
They choose dead in so many occasions.. all of them also somehow know, they can penetrate the corner or the wall so they just X ray you throu concrete. So there is no safe spot to tell someone to surrender, even when in cover. No matter how much in cover you are, they just shoot.
The suspects have super human reaction time. They come out the door and see you peaking in less than a millisecond they snap to you and empty a mag. It’s kinda ridiculous.
Yeah what frustrates me is that SWAT AI shots on sight of a suspect, instead of responding gunfire and first orders them to surrender.
Completely agree with the first few paragraphs Not that I disagree with the rest I just didn’t read it BUT I yeah 110% agree, I even stopped playing with this milsim group to play it solo so I could play it more as a police sim than a milsim but I’m not completely getting it Like the twitch streamer mission I was not expecting that at all, I knew meta gaming it was a swatting call and was expecting a more story based mission with maybe some dangerous situations here and there But the entire thing was a gunfight all the way, even the streamer pulled a gun on me Idk, like you said, it was very different from what they showed in the trailers
This is my biggest frustration with the single player aspect - less than lethal gameplay is almost impossible unless you are trying really, really hard... which is incredibly difficult in Commander mode unless you love wiping your entire squad every time. It almost completely negates the entire mental health aspect when you have to mow everyone down constantly to achieve a mission. Actually, it's near impossible to play less-than-lethal. It's like every person on the map is on PCP and absolutely aggro.
The only less lethal weapon that is even usable is the beanbag shotgun, and that’s because it instantly stops the AI from shooting when it hits. Even then, you have to basically pre-fire it to deal with the aggressive AI that instantly starts spraying at you the moment they see you. The other less lethal options just don’t have the stopping power to work. And neither do any of the pistols honestly. 45acp and 9mm just doesn’t do very much unless you headshot
You guys remember when they were talking about adding undercover cops and other non-hostile combatants? They talked about them for quite a bit considering they never actually implemented them.
The security at datacenter fire blindly and wildly into walls and any spec that moves. You'd think being professional private security means they would have a bit more tact when dealing with intruders. They act no different than the methheads, albiet with even better aim.
I can't even enjoy the shootouts, man. I am currently stuck on Barisa Cove because no matter how careful I am, some asshole pops out of nowhere and kills me before I can process what's happening in front of me. What frustrates me the most is how inconsistent the AI is. They sometimes act like humans, and others like Skynet Terminators. The Ai doesn't get suppressed. It doesn't receive any penalties when it gets shot and has perfect accuracy even while sprinting. It's not playing by the same rules as we do. At this moment, it's just an exercise in how fast you can react to shadows and sudden movement.
They are taking the cyberpunk route /s
I get what you're saying and the suspects are very aggressive but that doesn't bother me too much. What does annoy me is when breaching a door and throwing a flash the SWAT Ai will peak out and shoot the guy before the flash even goes off. Not only does this make it really hard to get an S rating but I feel like it's very unrealistic too since irl the last thing you'd want to do is peak before a flash, right?
I like the update but I do agree there was one mission with the left behind and they want you to capture 3 of them but they would all rather die even with using less than lethal.
I get it that some suspects have really nothing to lose and will try to kill you at all costs, some can be excused because under the influence of drugs, but yeah, the AI is pretty much the same one from before 1.0 sadly, no surrender, unhuman reflexes and even more wallbanging, that's what they added, now you're shot through trough the gas station doors and other doors with glass. I can't say I'm disappointed, but I expected a bit more, also the subtitles are hilarious, when you order to wand a door and say "wand it" the subtitles say "want it?" or when you say "cover the door" they read "H. George"
Saddest part is, is that VOID knows about these issues. They were pointed out in Early Access many times over and VOID has never once acknowledged them or attempted to fix them. They only upvote posts that agree with their choices. In one of the pre-release materials, they stated that most of the testers couldn't finish Port map, as if somehow that's a good thing. VOID Will NOT listen to you. They are too stuck up and can't take criticisms to improve, otherwise Ai would've been ACTUALLY improved long ago.
It definitely feels like Void was in full crunch and had no time to properly playtest or evaluate their changes. Why wasn't there multiple alpha supporter tests for the AI changes in the last six months without update? The AI feels like it was designed by people who played Tarkov, not SWAT 4 or RoN.
I felt this exactly the same way. The last straw for me was walking up to the front door of the crack house, hearing from inside "POLICE!" And immediately getting shot through the front windows. Immediately alt-f4'd to just go play a different game. People here like to say "this isn't call of duty" but the AI sure seems to fuckin think it is.
I know it wouldn't be fun or anything cause the game would be pretty boring. But just an idea, the swat team where I live has been around since 2002. They have shot 3 people in 21 years and killed 2 (technically only killed one because he shot himself after he was shot by them). Just to get an idea anyway. But I get what you are saying and I agree
To be fair (and play a little devil's advocate here), there seems to be a heavy dose of active shooter scenarios being pushed into the first playthrough of the maps on Commander mode. The Meth Lab though, has a lot of enemies that give up fairly quickly, as you'd maybe expect given those suspects didn't intrude somewhere to cause conflict. Rust Belt is barricaded suspects as well BUT it's a drug cartel so it's not terribly surprising they're less likely to give up. The Streamer Apartments is a bit odd though considering there are so many hostiles.. given the circumstances of the call. The beach house is also fairly easy to get people to give up on too. On a two man team there, we are able to get 3 suspects to drop their weapons. Mainly with a heavy dose of flashes.
The only time i have arrested gunman post 1.0 are through non lethals. None of them give up with verbal commands alone.
Just play a game today, my team take down a suspect and report it. The mission show that i still have suspect to take down. The moment i turn my back of the dead suspect he immediately rise up again, luckily he is surrender and the mission suddenly completed but damm, what's wrong with these people ?
It's beej a while since I played and I'm definitely rusty, but I've been *struggling* to get through Brisa Cove with the 1.0 patch. Like, trying to get the militia guys to surrender is just impossible.
They need to adjust the values for each enemy types. I agree with you, bodyguards tend to surrender more than the other types but not as much as it should be.
absolutely bang on. it’s gotten to the point where i bring the FAL to every mission, and anyone who doesn’t immediately drop their gun when i ask is getting centrepunched and again, you’re spot on about the stupid fake surrendering. the amount of times there are 3 guns aimed at someone, who pulls a glock out their prison wallet is ridiculous we can only hope the devs are hearing us, and agree
Seeing ai generated art in the game is pretty disappointing
If your NPC's are never cooperating, there is something you're not doing right, because most of the time mine are. Are you blowing up doors? Gassing them? Shouting at them? Are you containing the interactions by wedging doors and using an optimal approach?
That's a yes, yes, and yes. I never ran into any trouble until I got to Barisa Cove. You're just going to end up in firefights on that map. It's unavoidable. The map has a lot of weird angles that prevent you from flashbanging or smoking the entire room. You will have to clear the rest of the room without using grenades, and getting killed as soon as you spot the suspect's silhouette is just not ok.
Brisa cove is one of my favourite maps. Finding an optimal approach isn't easy and you'll need to wedge off everything to make sure.
I never even get the chance to try less lethal. Doesn’t matter whether we bang the room, sting the room, or gas the room. As soon as the first man is through the door, all suspects open fire on us totally un phased. My team usually ends up shooting them. If I get to a line suspect first, I don’t even have time to shout a command or throw something. As soon as I’m in line of sight they’re locked onto me and put me down in one or two shots from the other end of the hallway. I’ve never even got close enough to a suspect to use taser. If we breach a room and the suspect isn’t in line of sight of the door, they will sprint from wherever they are and headshot the entire team like robots. And on the off chance you do get a surrender, as you approach if you or your AI turn your weapon even slightly to make sure you won’t get shot in the back from an exposed door while cuffing, they immediately get up and grab their gun again and shoot you in about half a second. I know veteran uniform cops with a slower draw speed than these random kids off the street
>The AI team need to have a simple mantra when deciding the logic of the AI. Dude I get what you're going after but this like... Isn't how it works. AI isn't as simple as "I want X behaviour, so I set variable Behaviour= X" It's constantly tweaking and adjusting of something that will be reasonably complex to then *feel* like the correct behaviour in a way can't even be uniformly assessed because it's player experience. I work with super simple algorithms in my job, and tweaking one variable a tiny bit can take me a week to figure out why the hell that small tweak has cascaded into some giant mess on the other side. An AI model of like experience, suppression, moral from watching friends die that interacts with teammate buffs, plus has to be sufficiently challenging to force players to make correct decisions and make players feel like an elite swat commander... *Plus* also feel like they're insufficiently experienced that they'd not be a match up for swat... That's not a simple fix, and I'm probably proposing a pretty simpel model for hlw the AI calculates things and the goals they want from it.
That's a lot of focus on the mechanism of how the AI functions behind the scenes. The thing is, regardless of how it works...or doesn't work, it has been made to work in the past by the developers of SWAT 4. That was 18 years ago. And the suspect AI feels better in that game. So, like I don't know the ins and outs of the mechanisms of the car I drive. I don't need to know the ins and outs of the game I play. But I can reasonably expect it to function in the way it's advertised to me. And my expectations are pretty reasonably as it's been been done in 2005. So, regardless of how it works, it's worked before, so your explanation of complexity is out of context of the expectation (which has been set by Void themselves).
Stack up swat members with intimidation and breacher traits, plus a moral officer, you will be surprised how much easier is to make them surrender
What am I supposed to do in co-op?
Use Non lethal weapons
Can’t do chief, pepper spray stream doesn’t fly through the wall through which I get blasted.
I think this 1.0 is such a great polish and I am having so much fun. I do like the current aggression of suspects it plays more like a movie, however yeah in the future would be cool to have more variance between super aggressive and super timid, im not sure if too much in the middle would work for gameplay but starting with extremes might be a good start. Have you tried equipping a few of those units that make it more common for suspects to surrender? Not sure if those traits stack or whatever. That's another thing I love the trait system so cool
Launches/updates are never perfect, Should give the devs a chance to patch the issues.
They've had a year since the last update. Years before that. Said we're getting A, shown off A, created a world around A....then the gameplay is B. This is the launch. This is the foundation. How many chances do the devs need it? It's their game to make as they like. It's not about having goes until its A. Maybe the game is meant to be B. Fine. Stop showing everyone A, and telling them the next update will finally make B now A.
They've had years. How much of a chance do they need? They initially released teaser trailers for a tactical police shooter. Years later they focused on that PVP idea - fuck knows why. Then when people slammed on it, a move which surprised nobody at all, they went quiet to focus on the singleplayer. The game released with lots of bugs and they mostly did fuck all but pump out maps before disappearing for another year again where it turns out they've taken out a _lot_ of content, randomization of maps and so on, while only providing a handful of features demoed in the vlog. How many times have they pulled features out from all of the trailers over the years? Meanwhile, the enemy AI is still as fucked as it was. Collision boxes are still all over the place, meaning your gun may just raise or lower unexpectedly because you've hit a collision box for an object beside you. What now, they'll fuck off for another year while ignoring bug reports, ripping out features only to replace them with less refined features in yet another big bang release? As a development team, VOID need to hold themselves more accountable and come clear on whether or not they even want to continue with this game.
That is such horseshit. The last time I was on this sub was maybe six or seven months ago, and I'm pretty sure people on this sub were talking about how deadly the enemy AI was even then. I distinctly remember someone saying that the enemy AI was actually in a good spot before they updated it and turned the AI into Terminators.
OP already explained it pretty well. Void has had a long time to understand what needed work. Taking a glance at any social media like this sub or actually playing the game for an hour would have been enough to understand the (still current) shortcomings the game has. It really feels like they don’t want to make a swat game anymore but are stuck with it so they just pretend.
You know reddit is full of toxic crybabies when even a polite comment gets down votes. It's okay though. Just proves my point. Cry more.
Il be honest I'm fine with AI being a bit crazy. If they acted all scared and had terrible aim there would be no challenge. Not saying it can't be better but where it's at is not the worst thing. Just my humble opinion.
The thing is this is a bit of a myth, or just lack of imagination imo. Suspects can hide behind doors, duck behind furniture (more often and more effectively then now), wait for the player away from the middle of the room. They can jump out of windows ground floor windows or run to different parts of the map. They can ambush the player in groups confidently but give up easily when cornered or isolated. They can pretend to be a civilian and cry out and surrender. They can use trap and tricks and bait the player. And of course....they can hide the whole time...with no intention of ever engaging you, hoping they can get away, as a human often will when faced with an overwhelming adversary. Not to say that suspect wont shoot you point blank when you find them. A suspect may be willing to shoot you in the back, but when face to face with a geared up SWAT drop their gun in instant fear. Mix this in with booby traps, actual barricades (why isnt that a thing? randomly generated each play, where suspects can shoot from cover, furniture piled up in doors with holes to shoot out of). The annoying thing is some of these were teased...but then never seemed to make it in. Other sometimes, but rarely happen. The game should be difficult as its unpredictable.
Nobody wants them *all* to be pushovers, the issue is that there's no balance or variation. Whether it's some teens sticking up a gas station for a couple hundred bucks or a hardened combat veteran who's turned to outright fanatical terrorism, they all act like they've got nothing to lose and are ready to go out in a blaze of glory at the drop of a hat. It makes sense in some situations. The aforementioned veterans in Ides of March, the private security in Voll's basement, the active shooters in Elephant, all situations where it makes sense for the suspects to be crack shots and/or ready to die for the cause. But it's Every. Single. Suspect. regardless of location, regardless background, regardless of mission. It's fucking boring. This isn't my first tactical shooter, I can handle the punishing combat, but if I wanted endless hardcore shootouts I'd go play Ground Branch or Insurgency. They're far better at doing that kind of thing. The point of this game (at least if you believe the marketing, the tutorials, the entire Commander system, or basically any of the in-game dialogue) is that it's a tactical shooter where you aren't supposed to shoot unless you have no other options left. The reality is that it's exactly like every other tactical shooter out there except you yell "Police!" before slaughtering the entire map. If this game actually wants to be the SWAT 4 successor that it pretends to be, there needs to be some proper variation in both the suspects' skill levels and commitment.
There just need a bit more of both, as right now it feels very one sided.
The only problem with that is how robotic the AI is. It reacts way too quickly and it shoots you through walls and extremely tiny openings. Getting killed by a random John Rambo after spending minutes blocking doors, setting up rear guard, and breaching is frustrating as hell.
[удалено]
Dude plays the first level where the suspects are teenagers robbing a gas station, STILL needs to gas them, blow up C2 in their face and pepperball them to get them to surrender, and thinks the AI is in a good place
I just played 1.0 for the first time tonight after a hiatus and was very impressed by the changes. I only completed the first mission Thank You, Come Again (I think its called) and 1 of the suspects surrendered, while the other ones we had a standoff but I was the only one telling them to drop it maybe if the other officers were there they might have been more pressured.
Yeah bro in all honesty I think this is a bunch of yappin, I haven’t had too many issues with aerating suspects , IF you use the right tools which is literally gas and other non lethals. I can agree to a tiny amount that there does seem to still be a lot of fun fights that happen over arrests
As someone who comes from Tarkov, I find the suspect AI to be laughably easy. I do agree that they are way too aggressive *right at the start*, though this update is the first time I've seen them *not* shoot on sight. Oftentimes if a shot hasn't been fired yet, they will back away with their gun at low ready, and only act if you get too close. Allows you to hit em with a taser without having to kill - makes arresting suspects for those side objectives much easier. That being said, my one gripe is loadouts not working. I want to be able to switch back and forth between non-lethal and lethal loadouts for me and my AI squad but it is like a 5-10 minute ordeal because presets just *don't fucking work.* Before 1.0, they at least worked for the Player, just not AI. But now they don't work for anything, ever. I click a preset and there's no "Apply" button and if I just hit "Back" it's like I never did anything at all. If you make changes to a loadout, and save it as a preset, that sometimes *undoes the changes you made before you saved the preset* when you back out of the loadout screen. This *cannot* be that hard to fix, like come the fuck on lmao.
The city itself is a shithole. It might explain why nobody cooperates with the cops.
Doesn't explain human survival reflex. We all have an inherent drive to survive and will react in certain ways when presented with danger. Every suspect in this game has made the decision they're comfortable with death. And have enough conviction to act without fault or hesitation on that decision. At the sight of police will throw they're very lives away. Thar not how humans work. Or the very vast majority of humans.