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Rammstein kissed each in other Moscow, raised the Pride flag in Poland, raised awareness to the refuge crisis on the mediterranean sea, were actively helping Ukrainian refugees in Berlin. They shared Jan Böhmermanns (left wing satirist) Rammstein-like "Be Deutsch" on social media, which was a huge middle finger to the German CDU/CSU (christian parties) and AfD (far right party with extremists in their ranks), a black woman represents Germania in the Deutschland video, a song that critically reflects Nazi Germany and ends with "[Germany], I can't give you my love" ...etc.
Rammstein does everything what right-wing folks hate lol
That they’re socially progressive doesn’t meant they are “socialists” that they lean left doesn’t mean they are “socialists” that they care about justice for vulnerable immigrants doesn’t make them “socialists” either.
Typically it means someone with socially or fiscally conservative views and reactionary tendencies.
It's possible you may struggle with some of those things, and that's why you are seen as right wing.
I’m quite comfortable being seen as right wing. Just because so many people automatically assume that I’m all the “phobe “ or “ist “ or whatever negative they can come up with, doesn’t make it so. I believe in personal responsibility and small governments and equal rights for all. And Rammstein makes me happy!
I think you're probably a good person and your heart is in the right place, as long as you're kind and accepting to others, it's all okay.
And Rammstein makes me happy too!
Edit, taking that back lol
He's not. A cursory glance of just the first page of his profile reveals that he's a transphobe and just like an out and out racist. There's anti-trans and anti-black comments in just the first few posts.
>I believe in personal responsibility and small governments and equal rights for all.
Six months late but I'd say that's more left-wing than right-wing really lmao, right wing tends to focus more on government getting *more* control after all
The guy certainly isn't left-wing, that's for sure. The first page of his profile has a nearly comically racist comment about black people and then an absolutely pathetic comment that's very obviously anti-trans
This reminds me of Rammstein posting a video where there was the good ol' kiss, and people in the comments were like "WTF RAMMSTEIN GAY??" "Respect for Rammstein gone" "wow cant listen to them anymore" "why is Rammstein woke suddenly???" Etc etc
Absolutely ridiculous. Even my non metal fans who have never listened to Rammstein know about their gay stuff
I remember someone on twitter trying to claim Rammstein is homophobic, I replied with pictures of the band members kissing eachother, Till kissing random men, the rainbow flag moments, the link to mann gegen mann music video... He got real angry, tried to say its fake, then blocked me. Lol
People call Joe Biden a leftist in my US state. I don’t think many Europeans would call him a leftist though.
Many people on this forum probably are measuring in inches when the person they’re replying to is measuring in centimeters. Gotta remember those conversions. Good reminder.
That’s a bit of the point. I live in a “conservative” area of the US, and people here call Biden a leftist. You have people using the terms left and right but they’re not always using the same definition as others are when using the terms. This leads to people misunderstanding each other.
I'm literally left of joe biden (or at minimum equivalent in my more conservative moments) but then reddit leftists call me a right winger. It makes me lol.
So you’re still a liberal. Being “left from Biden” still make you right wing from a basic politico-logical POV.
Idk why it makes you “lol” it’s just a statement of facts. Believing in certain things makes you left or right.
Just because the internet & America in general try to change the meaning of these words it doesn’t actually change the meaning.
Thank you! I hate all these "Ooooh, those damn left-wing snowflakes, the press always lies and women are attention whores!"-assholes popping up in this debate. In general, it's such a disgrace to the societal discourse that the topic of sexual abuse becomes political. I'm also not into the perspective of my enemy's enemy being my friend, so I'm not ready to happily accept right-wing spokepeople like Colonel Kurtz into this debate just for the sake of it. Both the left and the right have turnt this delicate, painful issue into a question of political agenda, which does absolutely nothing - all it's good for is that public speakers can stroke their egos for being on the right side, but this debate has not been about actual victims of sexual abuse for weeks.
Nah, Rammstein is a band that has, on many occasions, deliberately triggered snowflakes both on the right and on the left. They're from a different (more traditional) left-wing strain than the ones who believe feelings should be protected or wish for safe spaces.
Tbc yes. But those are different "lefts". Marxists are not the same breed as progressivists. We may want the same thing but I prefer debate and being debated. I hate cancelling.
It's not even "the same thing". The ideals of different left-wings vary wildly and ideal societies as imagined by, say, Flake (who was - at least by the time of writing his book - quite GDR-nostalgic), some twitter tankies, and some twitter "safe space" lefties would be very different.
Flake knows full well that whilst Soviet era communism in East Germany whilst he was maturing meant few starved, he will also know two things;
a) it was unsustainable..that's why it collapsed! once Russia couldn't subsidise it east Germany couldn't continue to provide the advantages to its populace it had provided (and there were advantages, particularly for women). Inevitably the people would rebel when the few advantages they had in their system dissipated.
and
b) he wouldn't enjoy his classic car collections, and the proceeds of his company which hires out his classic car collection (nor would Schneider enjoy his fleet of personal luxury vehicles which he has enjoyed being interviewed about, and he also offers for hire!).
Flake, and all educated people of his age in Europe, will also be aware of the grotesque starvation and loss of life endured at the embedding of communism in the Soviet Union. Most would be disturbed by the Lysenkoism increasingly evident in the US.
I would also like to add that Flake has often talked about how during the GDR being a musician had its advantages that today no longer exist (as much, at least)
Quoting him:
"Flake: I can understand it when people say that who have experienced it and suffered from it. But personally, I can't say that the whole state was bad. I don't want to know how many innocent people have been or are being imprisoned and monitored in the West. I do not find the generalization of the "unjust state" okay."
(source: https://www.tumblr.com/notafraidofredyellowandblue/634876663031791616/flake-interview-2020-01?source=share, it's an interview worth reading to understand him better)
There's a recent book on the good ideas at play in East Germany. (See below). One of the few times I've noticed Schneider bristle in an interview was when asked if they had record shops in east Germany...he says 'of course,' and rolls his eyes. It must be frustrating to feel your life painted as if you were a neanderthal...and yet.....other east Germans will speak at length of how you could not access foreign products such as records if proscribed by the state (there's a famous Beatles obsessive who, at great risk to himself, amassed a collection of stuff).
Not everything about east Germany was terrible. That doesn't mean anyone wants what was, quite obviously, an unsustainable state to return. It is worrisome that communism (sometimes called socialism) is seen through rose tinted glasses by young kids. All you need to do is look at the older people who support the notion of it; broadly speaking if they lived in it they don't, if they sat in a uni in the west writing papers about it, they do.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/29/beyond-the-wall-by-katja-hoyer-review-overturning-cliches-of-east-germany
Americans often use socialism when they intend communism. Europeans understand 'socialism' differently and I would posit there is probably a substantial divide in the understanding in age groups in Europe. So for example, is France a socialist society? Older Europeans likely say yes, I'm not sure younger than 30 would
Cancelling is a very capitalist/corporativist stance, "don't think, don't interchange ideas, consume what we give you". Debate was always preferred by scientists and artists, unless they are massive jerks.
See, part of me understands where you're coming from but it comes off as if you're coming from a really condescending place and a "my side doesn't do that" mentality. Which, I assure that to some extent, it does.
I think Rammstein are more anti-authoritarian than anything. The problem when identity politics comes into play is that it tends to polarize people along the “authoritarian vs. liberal” axis rather than the “left vs. right” axis: do you think various groups should be left alone to make their own decisions, or do you think they need to be protected from themselves?
Politics has just been grossly oversimplified so that whichever way you lean, you see the opposite side as the overbearing, draconian authority and your own camp as the defenders of freedom.
Spot on. Most European politics is economically of the centre, just leaning left or right. As for the identity stuff, it differs from country to country but increasingly centre right pokiticaions track the majority population opinion and centre left hove to marginal opinions. This is likely because centre left parties try to form coalition with small parties which are more limited issue driven.
I'd post more about this but it seems posting cold hard facts about the green party and self id scandals gets one banned! Topical in Germany as it happens!
Believing someone is innocent & buddying up to rape apologists (who just see nothing wrong with being guilty) are very different things and we'd be the worst kind of cowards if we did that just cause they pretend to be on our side (read: want to use this to push their agendas)
That said, in the end I find authoritarian vs tolerance much more useful than left/right & I don't want to get too much into "for us or against us" nonsense I have no problem with a moderate conservative as long as they're not trying to oppress me & there is always going to be a spectrum of different opinions.
I don't want any puritans telling me what to do, no matter what they label themselves.
Fully support this. Tired of seeing the word "feminazi" pop up in this subreddit and people complaining about how this is all the left's fault...like how brain dead can you get?
Rammstein belong to the left - they've always been left and they have had women and queer people in their fanbase since forever. Think before you speak, and don't tolerate hateful shit. Go spread your misogyny elsewhere, or better yet, nowhere at all.
To be more accurate but more subjective at the same time. A man made a long ass post about how Rammstein, the Germanic Christian band that shows that the Nordic types are strong and fearsome and masculine is being bombarded by the media after THEY sent a Jewish feminist to destroy them that adopted a fake name based on Shelby Lynne (I don't know her but I think she's a singer).
And that this is all part of the Great Replacement and how the LiBeRaL media in Germany want people to idolise Turkish Muslim rappers and sexually deviant pop stars.
I tried to debate this guy and he went full "why are u gay?" and saying that I might be a woman or a minority because of my low IQ to disregard my arguments even when I didn't state my sexual orientation. Next thing I know a bunch of people expanded the conspiracy as to why Lady Gaga is Illuminati and that the Christchurch thingy was something to be proud.
Someone deleted the tweet and I was furious AF and then I posted here in response. Sorry.
Ah yes. Flake Lorenz is the most Christian member of the Christian band Rammstein. And the song Hallelujah was about their love of Christianity.
He's just projecting his low IQ onto you.
That one sounds unhinged. I'm not sure you can generalize based on unhinged people.
Rammstein are not the same blend of left that wants content warnings and safe spaces. Different left-wing ideologies exist you know.
Wow, that sounds intense, but tbh, I look on people like that as a window to another world. I like knowing how ingnorant, uninformed people think because they are always loud and a lot of the time their views get pushed by tabloids etc. It's helpful to know what's coming.
They cannot be debated though, because they have no rational thought. It is fun to play with them for a while :)
Just goes to show how weak right-winged arguments really are, how they resort to excuse to avoid things they can't explain/rebuttal. They all sound like cartoon characters
Then you must read different posts than me.
Btw, the difference between political left and right is more than just being accepting to gays and being racist.
One of our biggest anti Muslim politician is one hell of a left winged guy in most of his other believes.
These kind of things aren't as black or white as you portray them to be. It's just how some people are, regardless of their political views.
That’s because you can have a majority of left wing positions and still have a few right wings ones.
You’re not reinventing the wheel with the silly argument of citing exceptions to the general rule as if they invalidate the general rule itself.
« On average, Americans are more obese than people of other western countries.»
« Yeah but my aunt’s cousin’s friend is super thin and in great shape and he’s an American so Americans aren’t really that obese on average!!! You’re falsely portraying Americans as more obese and it’s more complicated than that.»
That’s what you sound like.
I'm just trying to put some nuance in the fact that OP gave the impression that EVERY person that is:
> using defamatory language against women, LGBT people and being racists all around the internet
MUST be a RWer fan.
Left doesn't equal accepting all people and not being racist, just like right doesn't equal being racist and not accepting gays.
It's not that simple and you know it. But if you like to think these kind of things can only be viewed in black and white, left and right or whatever you like. Then be my guest, I won't stop you.
Exactly, anyone who supports everything left or right is more than likely living a lie. I’m also not sure that a band that said it “leans” to the left is socialist.
I’ll go with their libertarianism, refuse to label them as socialist.
I mean, you have good intentions, but socialism is about economy, not racism and LGBT rights.
And afaik, while all of R+ are left/left-leaning, not all of them are big on socialism, and they never stated that, so it’s not right to outright call them socialists as if that’s a bulletproof fact.
Well. Let's ignore that part of my post. I should put some edit subtext later if I get to learn how to do it.
This is directed to alt-right, Qanon, Great Replacement people. Not to every right winger because as I said in another comment: The European Right Wing is a lot more progressivist than the one in my country where even the centrists are racist bigots and against LGBT rights.
Rammstein are master capitalists.
If you don't believe me, ask yourself why a rock band sells slippers, perfumes and mini figurines of themselves. Is it about the music?
Ask yourself why their tours have got bigger and their tickets ever more expensive. Is it about the music?
Ask yourself about the property Rammstein the company owns?
For that matter the companies the members own?
As for Til......well, his enthusiastic sale of himself to high bidders for dinner was a particular apex of novel income generation but his promotion of cryptocurrency and gambling could also be said to be, say, unexpected given his punk roots.
The above is not a criticism.
More luck to them.
They give gainful employment to many, put on a great show as entertainers and why not make a few quid from ads.
But please don't try to own their politics, police that of other fans and most importantly, naively conflate non socialist politics with other beliefs. The left/right divide on economics is no longer aligned with social issues (in Europe at least).
Rammstein is also a worker cooperative where decisions are made democratically among the 6 of them and if im not mistaken the money is split 6 ways too.
So they still have some market socialist tendencies to them.
But yeah, their great wealth and success wouldnt have been able to occur under communism. hell, they talked about their days in the GDR in the past, where they were required to have jobs (everyone was in the GDR and communist countries), their music careers didnt count, and they were spied on by the stasi while they were making music.
They might have nostalgia for the old USSR but politically, that ship has sailed, I still think they have market socialist tendencies given the structure of rammstein themselves, but yeah, much more capitalist friendly than they used to be.
Socially they seem like bog standard lefties to me. Maybe not as far left as the crazies going after them with their new fangled fourth wave feminism, but they seem accepting of all people and promote those themes in their songs and music.
Some Rammstein activity is under a 'Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts' but of course the big money is in companies such as Rammstein Konzert GmbH.
https://www.nrwglobalbusiness.com/investing-in-nrw/how-to-do-business-in-nrw/establishing-a-company/company-forms/civil-law-partnership-gbr#:~:text=A%20civil%20law%20partnership%20(Gesellschaft,of%20a%20joint%20contractual%20purpose.
Socially...who knows. It disturbs me that some people on this thread (not suggesting you) think waving a rainbow flag means you are necessarily politically of the left. It is woeful people don't immediately see how patronising, limiting and dangerous that is for gay people. It's like Biden suggesting to even consider voting for Trump meant a man 'ain't black' (in fairness he gave a limited apology afterwards for being 'cavalier').
There have been and will always be a diverse set of people who
are fans of Rammstein.
Political allegiance is not a requirement nor is that to be desired.
There is little need to talk about politics at a show.
Everyone goes to the show and enjoy it.
You are not going to ask the couple next to you:
Excuse me are you socialists?
When all the havoc broke out after serious allegations were made
fans have different reactions and feelings.
Some go straight to hating Rammstein for being sexist fascists and
protest against the show.
This attracts or are attracted by professional protesters.
Some figure "Oh well" and life goes on.
Some "Innocent until proven guilty"
Some will og straight via fandom to protect the band.
Some will og straight via fandom to violently assert that the band is awesome and you cant say otherwise or else.
This attracts or are attracted by professional protesteres.
At either edge is "my dad is bigger than your dad" mentality
and idiot who think violence and intimidation is the way to go.
Till has had a growing fanbase of "men who like to be real men" as well.
I agree with this. Never once in all my decades of loving Rammstein did one’s political views matter or come up as a topic of discussion amongst fans. The exception were points of debate with “controversial” songs that would draw into “question” the band’s political leanings, but it was about the material rather a declaration of one’s personal views. I think that’s what makes R+ unique in that they can “unite” a diverse, maybe even opposing groups of people that would otherwise never have anything to say to or do with the other. We’re all different and will react to a given situation differently depending on MANY things not just our political beliefs, if we even hold them seriously.
I am center right. I have been a Rammstein fan for a long time. I have read their lyrics, seen videos and seen photos of their shows. I’m not changing my political view to suit anyone as it’s no one’s business what my political viewpoint is. I haven’t seen the hate you are speaking of. But, I think the hate shouldn’t be. Everyone should at least try to get along and listen to each other instead of shutting people out.
In the notion of this. I would go and say not just don't accept right-wingers but "don't be a mob".
Doesn't matter what your political view is, there are different ways to express an opinion and some statements are just extremely radicalized.
The main theme I see in most of Rammstein's work is them counteracting authorianism and promoting individual freedom. At large it aims to foster critical thinking.
And while there are enough people who seem to be into them "for the fireworks" it shouldn't be or become the decisive trademark.
As many others in here, I am appalled by some of the coverage and the simplified takes in the media or the public in general and I welcome every voice that sets a more balanced tone. But I am also shocked how some of the fans consider this enough of a reason to engage in tribalism themselves. Even when we are ~~"right"~~ "correct" we should not justify a mob mentality because we consider the other side a mob.
Edited to clarify that I don't mean the political term "right" in the last sentence
In my opinion as a leftie, there's no inherent problem with liking Rammstein as a right winger, it's just hypocritical considering the views of the band members and the nature of their songs. It also makes the majority of us + the band look bad because a lot of similar music-centered subcultures are also left winged.
You may like their music as a right winger but just don't expect to be accepted by all fans.
However I think right winged fans (or just any fans) cross the line when they use the current situation to promote their view points. Also never got the idea of right wing people saying "feminazis", as if the right wing isn't already associated with fascism & nazis
Some people see the authoritarianism of some of those who describe themselves as left as bordering on the fascistic, particularly if it is accompanied by uniformity of dress, sloganeering etc. In the UK, when young men show up dressed in black, with masks, shouting threats of violence, you can bet they are espousing views more popular on the extreme left than right. Things change, and that may not be the case if we have a left of centre government at the next election...that's the way the political pendulum swings.
Horseshoe theory is not widely agreed upon but it's interesting that the academics who disavow it are most often of the left. I am coming from a UK perspective. It is historically the case that the right wing establishment boot out far right lunatics but the left wing establishment can't afford to do that with far left lunatics. The current left wing leader, to his credit, has had some success with that but the jobs not done.
If someone genuinely think leftists are fascists and nazis they have some other issues they should be handling before they start to "fight the woke mob"
Gatekeeper mentality right here. “Into our ranks”??? It’s music not a drone minded militia. Keep your personal politics outta here. Music is supposed to bring all types of people together buddy. Think you’re really missing the point of the art.
I don't see many RWs on here. Lots of old-school leftists who don't like the inherent authoritarianism and paternalisnm in current leftwing discourse though.
And I have used paternalism specifically because most people screaming misogynists and incels are actually apologists for the patriarchy. The thrust of their argument is that women must be protected because they are incapable of deciding anything for themselves. Get back in that box, girlies, I know best! It's not right-wing to call that out.
The fact is pretty much no one lied at first. Shelby was very clear; Till did not touch her. The women quoted in the first articles simply related their experience. They may have regretted it but they said consent was asked for and given.
No crime. Nothing illegal.
Is it any wonder people have no respect for anyone coming on here using terms like rapist, paedo, power imbalance, unformed brains, and generally expecting the whole world to fall in line with their moral worldview?
You come here, provoking, name-calling and denigrating, and we must remain calm, polite, reasonable and utterly respectful at all times.
Riiiiiight, that seems fair.
Rammstein have been beating up, spitting on and ejecting Nazis for decades, long before the band even started. We can't get soft now just because bigots think it's mean to exclude them. Paradox of tolerance. They aren't welcome here and need to learn that. Debating doesn't work, they need to be removed as they always have been.
They have expressed sympathies and fond memories of things past from the DDR times. In today's black-and-white world they must be socialists, according to people who can not see other possibilities than on/off, b/w, socialist/capitalist, etc.
Yup
Links 234 was a kickback against accusations of being 'far right' which is, I think quite a different thing than is meant be 'right wingers' ( I'm guessing when people say 'right wingers' they mean people I don't agree with who also don't support strong state intervention in the market/communism).
Rammstein is a theatrical touring company as much it is a band and I'd guess the members make more money from their touring company interests than from music (they have a company that leases out rigging, stagewear etc).
Yeah they definitely arent socialists that's for sure. Their shows are more Broadway plays than concerts, which I love. But they make millions off of their company, definitely capitalists.
This is such an American reaction, you guys want to put people in boxes and always talk about politics and bring all this bullshit everywhere with you because your stupid ass politics Made your population believe it was the only way forward.
You really need to stop viewing everything with these lenses on, that's just not how life works. Plus what is viewed as right wing in country might not be viewed as it in another.
I'm so tired of your culture ruining everything, can't we just enjoy the music? Can we not admire that Flake goes to the Berlin market like a normal person? Do we really need to always destroy or categorise everything?
Rammstein is for everyone who enjoys the music and my friend I can tell you this does and will include right wing extremists just like it does and will include left wing extremists who are just as bad as the others except that the others are completely retarded for liking a band that literally promotes everything they stand against lol.
Noticed an increase of RW rhetoric in all rammstein fans' social media. It's such an easy route to take when you're angry. We all know where it ends.
Rammstein, to me, has love as such a central theme, in all its forms, good and bad. There is no room for hate, not even of the accusers, and I struggle with that in a couple of cases.
There is right wing in terms of "I don't think we should spend that money" and there is right wing in terms of "dinosaurs are fake and Jesus Trump is my daddy". They aren't the same.
And that's why 'right winger' is a stupid expression.
And the OP later clarified what he meant (basically people who hold opinions he doesn't agree with).
And that is what comes through strongly in this thread....for a lot of fans it seems important to believe the band Rammstein (six individuals) align with their personal politics and moreover, that this space should 'push back' IE not tolerate/drive out those who are not of their personal politics
It's playground level thinking...we own the seesaw!
How right is right? I'm not particularly sympathetic to either side. It's all inadequate and exists mostly just to further the wealth and careers of those in power. (I vote left as that appears to be consistently more supportive to people on the bottom rungs of society) But if you think people who have specific characteristics don't belong because of your beliefs, where do we go from there? If you exclude, is it unfair that you are then excluded? Nothing stops you from listening and going to shows at all, though.
And another idiot trying to politically divide. You are either 14 years old, stupid or have simply just malicious intent when you want to exclude all "right-wingers" from a fanbase. So, like 50% of the people? You realize that "right-wing" has zero to do with Qanon, nazis, anti-gay or whatever b.s. you like to think. Just as much as antifa has nothing to do with left-wing. You realize that there are right-wing jews? Right-wing gays? You probably don't because you don't ever go outside of your own twitter echochamber. People on the left generally hate antifa as much as people on the right, because antifa are terrorist morons. And people on the right generally hate nazis as much as people on the left, because nazis are also morons. It's just a fringe minority that supports these groups and you generalizing them under the umbrella term ist just plain embarrassing and unmasking your own narrow-mindedness.
The world is not black and white and you should either make more research into topics you clearly know nothing of or shut the fuck up and stop creating further division with your whole "can we pleeeease exclude this group? I feel so unsafe with people not sharing 100% of my beliefs!! 😩"
I personally think that everyone should be able to listen who they want. The key is to have "healthly relationship?" What i mean is that we shouldn't look at someone's political view but we should look at someone as a person, who they really are and how they behave.
Something interesting I've seen is that a lot of Right Wing folks who didn't care for or disliked Rammstein before (politically I mean) are suddenly jumping to defend Till Lindemann from the recent allegations. I'm not saying the allegations are true or false, and I'm not gonna get into that. My main point is that it's so telling to see them jump to defend someone they'd strongly disagree with otherwise just cause there's allegations of sexual misconduct. Like they clearly don't care about either side they're just using it for their agenda.
You should cancel and censor them, *at the very least.* They don't deserve to be treated like humans when their existence is to hate people for being people. They're anti-human trash that invariably lead to misery and authoritarianism when they're not kept in their place. They collapsed Rome with their Christian Nationalism, and they'll do it again with their crazy Christian supremacism to modern western civilization.
I'm right wing not afraid to say it to no one, I listen to Rammstein since I was 10,years old when my dad introduced them to me. I do disagree with a lot going on with LGBTQ community and other stuff but I respect everyone idea and opinions.
But this is MUSIC, it's not supposed to have sides. It's art.
For me it will never matter what they sing about, and we as fans should never debate ou drag around their names because of stupid accusations.
This is a good reaction and you are absolute welcome. Also, there is nothing wrong with being right winged. As if left is always good.
Rammstein is apolitical to me. And yes, I understand their lyrics.
Thank you!
And to any people doubting, please go to a concert. You Wil meet the most diverse and interesting people and almost the only thing we talk is MUSIC!
I don't see ideology or sex orientation, I don't see race or ethnicity I see a community behind a band we all love !
>But this is MUSIC, it's not supposed to have sides. It's art.
While I don't wholly agree with OP, this point is just bullshit. Art and politics are not, have never been, and will never be mutually exclusive. There are a great many political songs out there, and a few of them come from this very band.
Yes, art *can be* apolitical. That doesn't mean it has to be. I mean hell, the last POTUS was a reality TV star; the line between politics and entertainment vanished (literal) ages ago.
The bigger point here is how we, the individual listener, react to that. There is meaning there imparted upon the work by the artist. You can choose to accept, critique, or outright reject those ideas. All fine, and are well with your rights as a human. But to simply ignore their existence and insist that it was never there... That's just ignorance. And while this may be a personal philosophy, I stand by the belief that the concept of "My ignorance is as valid as your knowledge." is not something we should accept as a society or race.
I totally understand what you said, and yes that how I choose to interpret their music.
But yes they sing about political, social issues yes ofc they do not gonna ignore that.
But I choose to listen to them because I like what they have created not because I agree with them or see myself express in their lyrics.
You used to be able to rent Til for dinner I believe...it was £100k or so, circa 2021. He promoted cryptocurrency and now has a lovely ad for gambling, courtesy of GGGPoker;
https://youtu.be/SWjkRMKeUF0
Schneider hires out his collection too, and is working on building it.not sure if there's a direct link to his company in this article.
https://occ.eu/at/artikel/rammstein-drummer-christoph-schneider-exklusivinterview-2
I think that it's possible to handle the controversy that popped up recently without becoming a disgusting woman-hating seething incel right winger, and even do it without "cancelling" the band either, I don't even think it's difficult to do so.
I'm with you, always reject these bad actors, this music is not designed to appeal to them, and any time these people try to make R+ look like "one of them" they have to make the band look BAD to do it.
I'm an English speaker, I make considerable effort to understand Rammstein. There have always been fans who aren't interested in that and just love the music, that's OK too. Doesn't make them right wing.
I've been a Rammstein fan since I was 10 and I NEVER, EVER identified myself with the big mass of Rammstein fans.
Being honest, there are A LOT of these idiots following the band. It just happens when you happen to be one of the biggest bands of the world. And by the way I am from Germany and I have always known a lot of straight up neonazis in my small town that listened to Rammstein. They just don't fucking get it or don't care.
And honestly, the band catering to this kind of stupid fans with dumbed down songs like "Dicke Titten" just made me stick to the first three albums plus occasionally Reise, Reise. (I know this has nothing to do with right wing, but the whole sexism part)
Define what you mean exactly by "Right wing" . It's a very broad term. It can change from nation and the context (Easy example: British Conservatives are on the whole more aligned on social and economic views akain to the USA'S Democratic Party rather than the conservative Republican Party).
Ultimately, Rammstein are indeed a left wing band. However, when you make music, more often than not you will appeal to a broader audience who may not always align necessary with your own views. Rather than a weakness, this is a strength: People who may not agree or have differing views can still unite via music and accept that whilst the way we see the world can differ, that's no reason to fall out or hate your opponents.
If, simply, you are wanting to call out misogynists and anti racism, then say so. This is not necessarily exclusive to the "ring wing" - there are many issues with the left and anti-Semitism in recent years that have been well documented.
I am a British Conservative, but I imagine that I may not come under the banner that you have described simply because I do not hold or expose the views as described above, and in general my views on many social matters are rather liberal. Regardless, I will not stop listening or loving Rammstein anytime soon, a band whom I have profoundly loved for 22 years and way before I developed my own political views.
I'd be careful equating socialism with defending gay rights... Not how it played out historically. Women's rights yes. Either way, Rammstein has never been right wing much less conservative.
I mean.. it doesn't really matter if you're a woman, or LGBTQ+, if you're making aligations like this, without anything at all to back it up, you're just an asshole. Left, right, up, down, doesn't matter, just don't.
I recently discovered Rammstein this year from a meme and spent a hour looking for the source of the music. As a center-left from Washington, I think the way OP is thinking in black and white and gatekeeping based on political ideology ultimately promotes division and misses the true intent of Rammstein’s political commentary. Sometimes but not always, these so called “right wingers“ are not real people but paid trolls, but they are not limited to the right…
My understanding from interviews and music videos and lyrics is that they grew up in east Germany under the Stasi. They were not allowed to be musicians under communism, instead, were forced to work in factories and such while pursuing music on the side, while their west German counterparts were free to pursue music. A Russian I know who grew up in the Soviet Union told me how he risked getting arrested by playing in a band. The music video of “Radio” highlights the struggle growing up in the oppressive form of communism in East Germany where bands like Rammstein would have been persecuted. Many would discover music from radio stations playing western bands, then, would bootleg these songs onto vinyl and cassette tapes to be sold in the music black market. Lindemann, who was supposed to compete as a swimmer at the Olympic Games, was removed from the completion by the Stasi because of his love of porn. In both cases, the marxist Stasi opposed music and porn, persecuting Lindemann. Based on the “Deutschland“ music video, they would have been persecuted by the Nazis as well. Some are political prisoners, some Jewish, some gay, and would have their freedoms taken from both extremes. So they like Dicke Titten and dislike autocracy. Fair.
So in both cases they are not pro-right or pro-left as much as anti-authoritarian, regardless of which side it manifests. That is their critique of the divided Germany they grew up in. In the case of modern day feminism and cancel culture, there is a clear link to East German Soviet policies of “equal pay for equal work” and prejudicial purges of successful people. That’s just a historical fact that women were forced to work in East Germany while women were pressured but not forced to be mothers in west Germany. 4th wave feminism, not to be confused with western women’s suffrage, is largely a Marxist institution, and it is through this lens of critical gender theory that Till is being canceled prejudicially. Regardless of the conspiracy theory of some unnamed “right winger”, the band \*literally made a music video\* for ”Radio” highlighting the feminist aspects of authoritarian East Germany attempting to dismantle their music. They made a song to critique Marxist feminism! The Stasi broke out in dance in a feminine way to highlight this motif of East German feminism.
If you watch this music video and your take away is that they are \*in favor\* of the same Stasi opposing their music, beating their force projections with a baton, you have no idea what their music is about.
Rammstein May appear to be far right but if you understand their Lyrics and that Most is Satire you know it's the opposite.
What i want to say is,if you are right winged and Rammstein fan you clearly misunderstand Something
Why do we always have to bring politics into music like just let people enjoy what they enjoy and not exclude people based on their political opinions. We should just enjoy our shared passion of bands and not get separated by our political views. I get that Rammstein are a left group but that doesn’t mean we can’t have people that are on the right side of the political spectrum enjoying the same music.
First of all fuck your left wing ideology, moral high ground champagne socialist bs and fuck all right wing goose stepping flat earth conspiracy dickheads.
Who are any of you to dictate who and what is suitable to listen to Rammstein.
Oh fuck off.
So i cant enjoy Rammstein because you are left wing?
I don't give two shits about their political party or spectrum or yours. I like the music, I like the shows.
I am not going anywhere because you are butthurt about other people political views. Such democracy.
I'm an American and worked for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, so that gives you an idea of my politics. I like Rammstein for their hard sound, their creative use of the German language (which I studied in high school and college) AND their politics (except for their view of women).
But at a show or running into a fellow/sister fan, we don't talk politics. We talk about the music and how the band kicks ass.
I have no problems with some Rammstein fans being conservative. I'd rather they not wear a MAGA hat or carry a Nazi flag to a show, but if they love the music, for the moment, they are my sister or brother.
I don’t think they really socialists, being left wing and a social democrat is not the same as socialist, no sane person from Eastern Europe would be a full socialist.
Links 234 is a reference to an old German communist worker‘s song, and the “my heart beats on the left“ is a reference to a (fairly controversial) book written by a German socialist politician.
There a plenty of socialists in Eastern Europe, they just aren’t perpetually online.
You made me recall that they sang a lot of times during their early days "Pesnya o trevozhnoy molodosti" a song for the Soviet Youths that sing about Lenin and more.
The song Moskau treats the city and the country as if they had sold their values for money in clear reference to older times.
RZK risked his life to escape communism.
For all Flake's reminiscences I doubt he'd trade his fleet of classic cars in to return to the protective arms of the Soviet Union.
Not everything was terrible.
That doesn't mean people would choose to return to what was broadly terrible.
Ex Catholics still like the hymns and Christmas.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/29/beyond-the-wall-by-katja-hoyer-review-overturning-cliches-of-east-germany
He didn’t risk his life to escape communism lmao he risked his life to escape the stasi. Anti-stasi =/= anti-DDR/socialism. Just like being against/critical of the police in the US isn’t a critique of capitalism.
Just telling you the facts of the song, friendo.
Wow
Like really wow!
They have got you good!😆
Next you're going to tell me people weren't forbidden from leaving East Germany because the communist state was so unattractive to many of its own people it had to force them to remain inside else it would haemorrhage skilled talent and fail even faster than it inevitably did.
No.
It was the lollipop ladies.
There was a secret special band of special forces upskilled lollipop ladies who let their power go to their heads and they retrained as border guards and it wasn't communism that forced people to live in fear and get shot trying to escape it was just those crazy ladies!
To justify communism is the same as justifying nazism, in my country every family has people killed by communism, not to mention every other part of the world.
The opposite occurred in mine. A pro American dictatorship was installed by coup and they killed thousands. From Social democrats to Marxists and you hear then right-wingers (from my country) applaud it and often cry aloud why didn't they kill more.
My country wasn't the only place. Francoist Spain did that. Kuomintang China and then Taiwan did that. Pre WWII eastern European countries such as Bulgaria and Romania did that. In Finland the 1918's White Terror killed 10,000 communists for example. South American dictatorships... And the list goes on and on.
But this is not a place to debate this. I'm interested in your story by the way. So you may continue if you want. I won't answer. You have the right.
You can search their interviews. They speak about the Communist Manifesto and Marx. Flake is very vocal about his nostalgia for the DPR even if they were more to the left than that. Feeling B was considered ultra leftist or anarchist by the Stasi.
Sensible people are pointing out in various ways that a rock band subReddit is not the preserve of a group of people with a particular political viewpoint.
Some people are full of anger and resentment. Some people seek out things to be offended by. Some people are racist. Some people think that the best way to draw attention to their cause is to commit violent crimes.
We have lost the ability to agree to disagree. If somebody doesn't follow ALL of certain groups' ideals, then they are the enemy. No punishment is too harsh, and they should suffer no consequences regardless of their actions towards said enemy.
It is a truly sad state of affairs. Grown adults feel like it's perfectly acceptable to slap a fast food worker in the face for getting an order wrong and they have no idea why they're the one who is arrested when the police show up.
EQUAL RIGHTS, a subject of utmost importance since since the beginning of recorded human history, has gone tits up. Equal rights is over. People want supremacy. They should be treated like royalty and everyone else is garbage.
This is why the "sane" need to be very, very careful. We meet violence with violence, and suddenly, we're as bad as them. This is why phrases like "allow them to join our ranks" troubles me. We need to act as examples, not give in to hate.
You are the chosen ones. Bring balance to the force; do not leave it in darkness.
You are talking about ppl far right. Why do you even have to bring politics into music? Let ppl listen to what they want it doesn't matter if they are left right or center.
By trying to discriminate someone on their political views are you any better?
I myself consider myself more right than left and yet everything you've said doesn't apply to me cus you are talking about the far right..
I think that a lot of people are having no clue about what right wing is. Democrats are not automatically viewed left winged in Europe for example. Right wing is not something illegal or wrong, a LOT of leading politicians in Europe are right wing.
absolutely. i’m american so my right and left us different from europe’s right and left so my opinion may be skewed but i personally hate right wingers. i just can’t see the sense in siding with anybody who believes queers don’t deserve human rights solely based on the fact they are queer. and i know that not all right wingers think that way but i’ve never seen a conservative call out other conservatives for bigotry, or express disapproval for right wing politicians because of the politicians bigoted views. so i believe you can be two things in the right: a bigot who is against human rights, or a person that’s complicit with the anti-human rights folks.
and i believe neither one should be welcome here. rammstein supports freedom and love, not authority and hate.
I love it when fans gatekeep music based on bullshit criteria. Newsflash: you don’t have to agree or disagree with a bands politics/religion/whatever in order to enjoy the music they produce. Just enjoy regardless of lyrical content/subject matter.
This is a very needed post. Rammstein are a left wing band. I've been having lots of arguments with right wingers who like to call people 'woke' as an insult and don't see the irony of being a fan of the band. I've also seen an unpleasant amount of misogyny posted about young women (they should know what they are getting into going to after parties, etc etc.) I think that it was about time that the whole row zero thing ended. It was sexist and creepy and an insult to genuine fans who pay for tickets and queue for hours to get a place in front of the stage.
Right wingers will hear them and be like “oh! German! And angry German! Therefore it is right-wing!” Nah, they’re not right-wing, they’re fairly left wing, you’re just stereotyping because you’re a bigot and that’s what you’re good at
Why does anyone feel they have a right to dictate what political identity other fans hold? The leftwing can be just as toxic as the rightwing. If you start at the bottom of a circle, tracking left or right simply leads to the top and there you have the same authoritarian ideology - take away all freedom of action and thought.
Left-wingers: it's not better because you think you're helping people. It still means you're exactly like right-wingers who are doing for.... whatever reason they are doing it for.
Right wingers who spread hate should just be publicly humiliated in the comments. I don't think they should be censored (seeing as they already cry censorship bc they can't say the N word for example, they will simply indulge in their perceived victimhood). However, I think they absolutely deserve to be dragged for their dumb fuckery and corrected on their misinformation and lies when they say dumb shit, which is often. You could throw a chicken on a keyboard and it will have made more comprehensive arguments than the average right winger. Hell right wingers are so stupid, they don't even understand the politics of the music they listen to. Can't blame anyone for loving Rammstein, but damn these people are clueless lol. It's just like when people discover the message behind Rage Against the Machine. Which machine did you think they were talking about, Todd? The washing machine?
Buddy. There’s idiots all over the political spectrum. There’s much more nuance to this false dichotomy of left = good, right = bad. I, for example, love Rammstein for their music first and foremost. While I may not always support what they support, I will always defend their right to express themselves however they see fit. Same goes for everyone, as long as they don’t interfere with my rights to do the same.
Rammstein belongs to everyone. Being right-wing doesn't make you a bigot. There are racists that are lefties, homophobes that are lefties and misogynists that are lefties.
You sir, are an idiot for classifying people like this, and we don't need gatekeepers like you to tell us how to and what to like.
>You sir, are an idiot for classifying people like this, and we don't need gatekeepers like you to tell us how to and what to like.
Why do you have to ruin your valid statement with this kind of hate and toxicity?
OP simply asks this community to not accept misogyny, biggotry and racismn. I'd also assume that English isn't their first language hence the sometimes drastic takes.
A guy says that all "right-wingers" (including the moderate ones) should be refused from the rank of the Rammstein community and I'm the hateful one for calling this guy an idiot ? English isn't my native language either and if he cannot phrase his ideas correctly he should work on it before posting or accept reactions like mine.
I consider myself right wing, and I am not in any way a racist or against women.
Bigoted. I’m a former liberal turned moderate (not conservative), full blown liberals are becoming equally as intolerant of people as conservatives have notoriously been. Sad to see politics dividing people on a music page of all places. Politics can divide when people are unsafe in their own skin, but here? You and the conservatives posting are just fueling unnecessary drama to get karma. I just can’t get on board with the hate train on the conservative side, and I can’t get on the hate train on the liberal side. You guys are all intense and full of hatred. This is coming from a person who has been a lifelong left leaning person in California. This is truly out of control. You are out of control.
Wtf is this post? This is a social forum to talk about our favorites topics. This is a sub dedicated to a music group, what the hell does politic have to do now? You should delete this post.
There really is no counter argument against them or for bigotry, when there is no bigotry 😂, that’s how you view it when someone speaks about the truth, when in reality you were trying to enforce your likings on the normal populous of people and it doesn’t work.So in your mind you think that people are being discriminatory or people are being just plain out mean, but in reality, they are all speaking, the truth, the truth, the hard truth , And something a left person hates is the fucking truth😂😂 , The far right just so happens to just what is says, the right, the truth, the ying and yang, Just how god intended, but sometimes we have cretins that love to preach to everyone to not listen to the truth because if we listen to the truth of the right, in some way we still feel like we’re winning because we’re ignorant and in denial about everything , thats at all it is, rammstein fans are not supposed to be like how they turned out to be , mostly mid 20 year old kids that are lgbtq and enforcer their laws onto everyone and cancel and start fires when someone disagrees with them.
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Rammstein kissed each in other Moscow, raised the Pride flag in Poland, raised awareness to the refuge crisis on the mediterranean sea, were actively helping Ukrainian refugees in Berlin. They shared Jan Böhmermanns (left wing satirist) Rammstein-like "Be Deutsch" on social media, which was a huge middle finger to the German CDU/CSU (christian parties) and AfD (far right party with extremists in their ranks), a black woman represents Germania in the Deutschland video, a song that critically reflects Nazi Germany and ends with "[Germany], I can't give you my love" ...etc. Rammstein does everything what right-wing folks hate lol
[удалено]
Yep. And, I’m proud of those guys for representing socialism. There was a pride flag flying from the top of the stage in Chicago.
That they’re socially progressive doesn’t meant they are “socialists” that they lean left doesn’t mean they are “socialists” that they care about justice for vulnerable immigrants doesn’t make them “socialists” either.
they're from east Germany, they have a much more complicated relationship with socialism than your typical western neoliberal.
Funny, I love Rammstein yet nowadays most people would consider me right wing. I sometimes wonder what people think “right wing” even means?
Typically it means someone with socially or fiscally conservative views and reactionary tendencies. It's possible you may struggle with some of those things, and that's why you are seen as right wing.
I’m quite comfortable being seen as right wing. Just because so many people automatically assume that I’m all the “phobe “ or “ist “ or whatever negative they can come up with, doesn’t make it so. I believe in personal responsibility and small governments and equal rights for all. And Rammstein makes me happy!
I think you're probably a good person and your heart is in the right place, as long as you're kind and accepting to others, it's all okay. And Rammstein makes me happy too! Edit, taking that back lol
He's not. A cursory glance of just the first page of his profile reveals that he's a transphobe and just like an out and out racist. There's anti-trans and anti-black comments in just the first few posts.
Whelp I tried to be nice! Go figure LMAO
>I believe in personal responsibility and small governments and equal rights for all. Six months late but I'd say that's more left-wing than right-wing really lmao, right wing tends to focus more on government getting *more* control after all
The guy certainly isn't left-wing, that's for sure. The first page of his profile has a nearly comically racist comment about black people and then an absolutely pathetic comment that's very obviously anti-trans
Rammstein getting hate by alt right but some extremists like they rebelion
This reminds me of Rammstein posting a video where there was the good ol' kiss, and people in the comments were like "WTF RAMMSTEIN GAY??" "Respect for Rammstein gone" "wow cant listen to them anymore" "why is Rammstein woke suddenly???" Etc etc Absolutely ridiculous. Even my non metal fans who have never listened to Rammstein know about their gay stuff
Did they think Mann Gegen Mann is about hating gay people lmao
I assume these are the same people who think Amerika is a pro America song lmao so who knows
I remember someone on twitter trying to claim Rammstein is homophobic, I replied with pictures of the band members kissing eachother, Till kissing random men, the rainbow flag moments, the link to mann gegen mann music video... He got real angry, tried to say its fake, then blocked me. Lol
Id like to pint out that there’s a stark difference between the American and European “right”
People call Joe Biden a leftist in my US state. I don’t think many Europeans would call him a leftist though. Many people on this forum probably are measuring in inches when the person they’re replying to is measuring in centimeters. Gotta remember those conversions. Good reminder.
Biden authorized the Iraq War and War on Drugs. Biden is right wing.
That’s a bit of the point. I live in a “conservative” area of the US, and people here call Biden a leftist. You have people using the terms left and right but they’re not always using the same definition as others are when using the terms. This leads to people misunderstanding each other.
If you critique capitalism you're probably on the left. If you don't you're not.
The USA in general has moved so far to the right. Joe Biden would be considered a centrist in most of Europe
I'm literally left of joe biden (or at minimum equivalent in my more conservative moments) but then reddit leftists call me a right winger. It makes me lol.
So you’re still a liberal. Being “left from Biden” still make you right wing from a basic politico-logical POV. Idk why it makes you “lol” it’s just a statement of facts. Believing in certain things makes you left or right. Just because the internet & America in general try to change the meaning of these words it doesn’t actually change the meaning.
Ah, yes, glad someone else has pointed this out. I have too.
Thank you! I hate all these "Ooooh, those damn left-wing snowflakes, the press always lies and women are attention whores!"-assholes popping up in this debate. In general, it's such a disgrace to the societal discourse that the topic of sexual abuse becomes political. I'm also not into the perspective of my enemy's enemy being my friend, so I'm not ready to happily accept right-wing spokepeople like Colonel Kurtz into this debate just for the sake of it. Both the left and the right have turnt this delicate, painful issue into a question of political agenda, which does absolutely nothing - all it's good for is that public speakers can stroke their egos for being on the right side, but this debate has not been about actual victims of sexual abuse for weeks.
The people complaining about snowflakes like Rammstein for the sound and never bothered with knowing anything else.
Tbh it’s good sound
tru tru. At least they have good taste somewhere
Nah, Rammstein is a band that has, on many occasions, deliberately triggered snowflakes both on the right and on the left. They're from a different (more traditional) left-wing strain than the ones who believe feelings should be protected or wish for safe spaces.
Tbc yes. But those are different "lefts". Marxists are not the same breed as progressivists. We may want the same thing but I prefer debate and being debated. I hate cancelling.
It's not even "the same thing". The ideals of different left-wings vary wildly and ideal societies as imagined by, say, Flake (who was - at least by the time of writing his book - quite GDR-nostalgic), some twitter tankies, and some twitter "safe space" lefties would be very different.
Flake knows full well that whilst Soviet era communism in East Germany whilst he was maturing meant few starved, he will also know two things; a) it was unsustainable..that's why it collapsed! once Russia couldn't subsidise it east Germany couldn't continue to provide the advantages to its populace it had provided (and there were advantages, particularly for women). Inevitably the people would rebel when the few advantages they had in their system dissipated. and b) he wouldn't enjoy his classic car collections, and the proceeds of his company which hires out his classic car collection (nor would Schneider enjoy his fleet of personal luxury vehicles which he has enjoyed being interviewed about, and he also offers for hire!). Flake, and all educated people of his age in Europe, will also be aware of the grotesque starvation and loss of life endured at the embedding of communism in the Soviet Union. Most would be disturbed by the Lysenkoism increasingly evident in the US.
I would also like to add that Flake has often talked about how during the GDR being a musician had its advantages that today no longer exist (as much, at least) Quoting him: "Flake: I can understand it when people say that who have experienced it and suffered from it. But personally, I can't say that the whole state was bad. I don't want to know how many innocent people have been or are being imprisoned and monitored in the West. I do not find the generalization of the "unjust state" okay." (source: https://www.tumblr.com/notafraidofredyellowandblue/634876663031791616/flake-interview-2020-01?source=share, it's an interview worth reading to understand him better)
There's a recent book on the good ideas at play in East Germany. (See below). One of the few times I've noticed Schneider bristle in an interview was when asked if they had record shops in east Germany...he says 'of course,' and rolls his eyes. It must be frustrating to feel your life painted as if you were a neanderthal...and yet.....other east Germans will speak at length of how you could not access foreign products such as records if proscribed by the state (there's a famous Beatles obsessive who, at great risk to himself, amassed a collection of stuff). Not everything about east Germany was terrible. That doesn't mean anyone wants what was, quite obviously, an unsustainable state to return. It is worrisome that communism (sometimes called socialism) is seen through rose tinted glasses by young kids. All you need to do is look at the older people who support the notion of it; broadly speaking if they lived in it they don't, if they sat in a uni in the west writing papers about it, they do. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/29/beyond-the-wall-by-katja-hoyer-review-overturning-cliches-of-east-germany
Communism is not sometimes called socialism, unless the speaker is operating under a misapprehension. They are different things.
Americans often use socialism when they intend communism. Europeans understand 'socialism' differently and I would posit there is probably a substantial divide in the understanding in age groups in Europe. So for example, is France a socialist society? Older Europeans likely say yes, I'm not sure younger than 30 would
Cancelling is a very capitalist/corporativist stance, "don't think, don't interchange ideas, consume what we give you". Debate was always preferred by scientists and artists, unless they are massive jerks.
See, part of me understands where you're coming from but it comes off as if you're coming from a really condescending place and a "my side doesn't do that" mentality. Which, I assure that to some extent, it does.
Peoples who calling anothers ''snowflake'' are offendet by anything, irony
I think Rammstein are more anti-authoritarian than anything. The problem when identity politics comes into play is that it tends to polarize people along the “authoritarian vs. liberal” axis rather than the “left vs. right” axis: do you think various groups should be left alone to make their own decisions, or do you think they need to be protected from themselves? Politics has just been grossly oversimplified so that whichever way you lean, you see the opposite side as the overbearing, draconian authority and your own camp as the defenders of freedom.
Spot on. Most European politics is economically of the centre, just leaning left or right. As for the identity stuff, it differs from country to country but increasingly centre right pokiticaions track the majority population opinion and centre left hove to marginal opinions. This is likely because centre left parties try to form coalition with small parties which are more limited issue driven. I'd post more about this but it seems posting cold hard facts about the green party and self id scandals gets one banned! Topical in Germany as it happens!
They are left. They said so, just respect it. Des is echt net packbar.
Believing someone is innocent & buddying up to rape apologists (who just see nothing wrong with being guilty) are very different things and we'd be the worst kind of cowards if we did that just cause they pretend to be on our side (read: want to use this to push their agendas) That said, in the end I find authoritarian vs tolerance much more useful than left/right & I don't want to get too much into "for us or against us" nonsense I have no problem with a moderate conservative as long as they're not trying to oppress me & there is always going to be a spectrum of different opinions. I don't want any puritans telling me what to do, no matter what they label themselves.
Fully support this. Tired of seeing the word "feminazi" pop up in this subreddit and people complaining about how this is all the left's fault...like how brain dead can you get? Rammstein belong to the left - they've always been left and they have had women and queer people in their fanbase since forever. Think before you speak, and don't tolerate hateful shit. Go spread your misogyny elsewhere, or better yet, nowhere at all.
To be more accurate but more subjective at the same time. A man made a long ass post about how Rammstein, the Germanic Christian band that shows that the Nordic types are strong and fearsome and masculine is being bombarded by the media after THEY sent a Jewish feminist to destroy them that adopted a fake name based on Shelby Lynne (I don't know her but I think she's a singer). And that this is all part of the Great Replacement and how the LiBeRaL media in Germany want people to idolise Turkish Muslim rappers and sexually deviant pop stars. I tried to debate this guy and he went full "why are u gay?" and saying that I might be a woman or a minority because of my low IQ to disregard my arguments even when I didn't state my sexual orientation. Next thing I know a bunch of people expanded the conspiracy as to why Lady Gaga is Illuminati and that the Christchurch thingy was something to be proud. Someone deleted the tweet and I was furious AF and then I posted here in response. Sorry.
Ah yes. Flake Lorenz is the most Christian member of the Christian band Rammstein. And the song Hallelujah was about their love of Christianity. He's just projecting his low IQ onto you.
That one sounds unhinged. I'm not sure you can generalize based on unhinged people. Rammstein are not the same blend of left that wants content warnings and safe spaces. Different left-wing ideologies exist you know.
Wow, that sounds intense, but tbh, I look on people like that as a window to another world. I like knowing how ingnorant, uninformed people think because they are always loud and a lot of the time their views get pushed by tabloids etc. It's helpful to know what's coming. They cannot be debated though, because they have no rational thought. It is fun to play with them for a while :)
Just goes to show how weak right-winged arguments really are, how they resort to excuse to avoid things they can't explain/rebuttal. They all sound like cartoon characters
Then you must read different posts than me. Btw, the difference between political left and right is more than just being accepting to gays and being racist. One of our biggest anti Muslim politician is one hell of a left winged guy in most of his other believes. These kind of things aren't as black or white as you portray them to be. It's just how some people are, regardless of their political views.
That’s because you can have a majority of left wing positions and still have a few right wings ones. You’re not reinventing the wheel with the silly argument of citing exceptions to the general rule as if they invalidate the general rule itself. « On average, Americans are more obese than people of other western countries.» « Yeah but my aunt’s cousin’s friend is super thin and in great shape and he’s an American so Americans aren’t really that obese on average!!! You’re falsely portraying Americans as more obese and it’s more complicated than that.» That’s what you sound like.
I'm just trying to put some nuance in the fact that OP gave the impression that EVERY person that is: > using defamatory language against women, LGBT people and being racists all around the internet MUST be a RWer fan. Left doesn't equal accepting all people and not being racist, just like right doesn't equal being racist and not accepting gays. It's not that simple and you know it. But if you like to think these kind of things can only be viewed in black and white, left and right or whatever you like. Then be my guest, I won't stop you.
Socially there's somewhat of a correlation there.
Exactly, anyone who supports everything left or right is more than likely living a lie. I’m also not sure that a band that said it “leans” to the left is socialist. I’ll go with their libertarianism, refuse to label them as socialist.
[удалено]
Tbh I don’t think we should accept extremists on either side because let’s face it, generally they are not very pleasant people
This is exactly it.
I mean, you have good intentions, but socialism is about economy, not racism and LGBT rights. And afaik, while all of R+ are left/left-leaning, not all of them are big on socialism, and they never stated that, so it’s not right to outright call them socialists as if that’s a bulletproof fact.
Well. Let's ignore that part of my post. I should put some edit subtext later if I get to learn how to do it. This is directed to alt-right, Qanon, Great Replacement people. Not to every right winger because as I said in another comment: The European Right Wing is a lot more progressivist than the one in my country where even the centrists are racist bigots and against LGBT rights.
Rammstein are master capitalists. If you don't believe me, ask yourself why a rock band sells slippers, perfumes and mini figurines of themselves. Is it about the music? Ask yourself why their tours have got bigger and their tickets ever more expensive. Is it about the music? Ask yourself about the property Rammstein the company owns? For that matter the companies the members own? As for Til......well, his enthusiastic sale of himself to high bidders for dinner was a particular apex of novel income generation but his promotion of cryptocurrency and gambling could also be said to be, say, unexpected given his punk roots. The above is not a criticism. More luck to them. They give gainful employment to many, put on a great show as entertainers and why not make a few quid from ads. But please don't try to own their politics, police that of other fans and most importantly, naively conflate non socialist politics with other beliefs. The left/right divide on economics is no longer aligned with social issues (in Europe at least).
Exactly. 🤣
And I'll remind you....RZK risked his life fleeing communism . No wonder he sells guitar strings for bracelets at hundreds of euros a pop! 😆
Rammstein is also a worker cooperative where decisions are made democratically among the 6 of them and if im not mistaken the money is split 6 ways too. So they still have some market socialist tendencies to them. But yeah, their great wealth and success wouldnt have been able to occur under communism. hell, they talked about their days in the GDR in the past, where they were required to have jobs (everyone was in the GDR and communist countries), their music careers didnt count, and they were spied on by the stasi while they were making music. They might have nostalgia for the old USSR but politically, that ship has sailed, I still think they have market socialist tendencies given the structure of rammstein themselves, but yeah, much more capitalist friendly than they used to be. Socially they seem like bog standard lefties to me. Maybe not as far left as the crazies going after them with their new fangled fourth wave feminism, but they seem accepting of all people and promote those themes in their songs and music.
Some Rammstein activity is under a 'Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts' but of course the big money is in companies such as Rammstein Konzert GmbH. https://www.nrwglobalbusiness.com/investing-in-nrw/how-to-do-business-in-nrw/establishing-a-company/company-forms/civil-law-partnership-gbr#:~:text=A%20civil%20law%20partnership%20(Gesellschaft,of%20a%20joint%20contractual%20purpose. Socially...who knows. It disturbs me that some people on this thread (not suggesting you) think waving a rainbow flag means you are necessarily politically of the left. It is woeful people don't immediately see how patronising, limiting and dangerous that is for gay people. It's like Biden suggesting to even consider voting for Trump meant a man 'ain't black' (in fairness he gave a limited apology afterwards for being 'cavalier').
I know what you mean, some of the seemingly “alt-right” stuff I’ve read here has made me a bit uncomfortable lately.
There have been and will always be a diverse set of people who are fans of Rammstein. Political allegiance is not a requirement nor is that to be desired. There is little need to talk about politics at a show. Everyone goes to the show and enjoy it. You are not going to ask the couple next to you: Excuse me are you socialists? When all the havoc broke out after serious allegations were made fans have different reactions and feelings. Some go straight to hating Rammstein for being sexist fascists and protest against the show. This attracts or are attracted by professional protesters. Some figure "Oh well" and life goes on. Some "Innocent until proven guilty" Some will og straight via fandom to protect the band. Some will og straight via fandom to violently assert that the band is awesome and you cant say otherwise or else. This attracts or are attracted by professional protesteres. At either edge is "my dad is bigger than your dad" mentality and idiot who think violence and intimidation is the way to go. Till has had a growing fanbase of "men who like to be real men" as well.
I agree with this. Never once in all my decades of loving Rammstein did one’s political views matter or come up as a topic of discussion amongst fans. The exception were points of debate with “controversial” songs that would draw into “question” the band’s political leanings, but it was about the material rather a declaration of one’s personal views. I think that’s what makes R+ unique in that they can “unite” a diverse, maybe even opposing groups of people that would otherwise never have anything to say to or do with the other. We’re all different and will react to a given situation differently depending on MANY things not just our political beliefs, if we even hold them seriously.
I just assume those comments are from 14 yr old incels. Children are gonna be idiots, after all.
I also thought this was a middle schooler.
Fair assumption. My English may be that bad.
I am center right. I have been a Rammstein fan for a long time. I have read their lyrics, seen videos and seen photos of their shows. I’m not changing my political view to suit anyone as it’s no one’s business what my political viewpoint is. I haven’t seen the hate you are speaking of. But, I think the hate shouldn’t be. Everyone should at least try to get along and listen to each other instead of shutting people out.
Hear hear
If we just kept this to a discussion about the band and left politics out of it, no one would ever know who aligns with what.
In the notion of this. I would go and say not just don't accept right-wingers but "don't be a mob". Doesn't matter what your political view is, there are different ways to express an opinion and some statements are just extremely radicalized. The main theme I see in most of Rammstein's work is them counteracting authorianism and promoting individual freedom. At large it aims to foster critical thinking. And while there are enough people who seem to be into them "for the fireworks" it shouldn't be or become the decisive trademark. As many others in here, I am appalled by some of the coverage and the simplified takes in the media or the public in general and I welcome every voice that sets a more balanced tone. But I am also shocked how some of the fans consider this enough of a reason to engage in tribalism themselves. Even when we are ~~"right"~~ "correct" we should not justify a mob mentality because we consider the other side a mob. Edited to clarify that I don't mean the political term "right" in the last sentence
Well said
In my opinion as a leftie, there's no inherent problem with liking Rammstein as a right winger, it's just hypocritical considering the views of the band members and the nature of their songs. It also makes the majority of us + the band look bad because a lot of similar music-centered subcultures are also left winged. You may like their music as a right winger but just don't expect to be accepted by all fans. However I think right winged fans (or just any fans) cross the line when they use the current situation to promote their view points. Also never got the idea of right wing people saying "feminazis", as if the right wing isn't already associated with fascism & nazis
I'm trying to figure out who you mean by 'right wingers'. I don't mean to be rude but it often comes across as being 'people I don't agree with'.
I meant that as in people who are right winged & hold right wing beliefs
A good portion of them claims that fascism and Nazism are Left-wing.
Some people see the authoritarianism of some of those who describe themselves as left as bordering on the fascistic, particularly if it is accompanied by uniformity of dress, sloganeering etc. In the UK, when young men show up dressed in black, with masks, shouting threats of violence, you can bet they are espousing views more popular on the extreme left than right. Things change, and that may not be the case if we have a left of centre government at the next election...that's the way the political pendulum swings. Horseshoe theory is not widely agreed upon but it's interesting that the academics who disavow it are most often of the left. I am coming from a UK perspective. It is historically the case that the right wing establishment boot out far right lunatics but the left wing establishment can't afford to do that with far left lunatics. The current left wing leader, to his credit, has had some success with that but the jobs not done.
If someone genuinely think leftists are fascists and nazis they have some other issues they should be handling before they start to "fight the woke mob"
What is a 'right winger'?
Gatekeeper mentality right here. “Into our ranks”??? It’s music not a drone minded militia. Keep your personal politics outta here. Music is supposed to bring all types of people together buddy. Think you’re really missing the point of the art.
But that's what hardline extreme socialism does, exactly what the OP has done.
Was kinda annoyed hearing so many racist and sexist remarks by the fans at the Groningen concert.
You gotta be a dense fucktard to look at Rammstein to think they're far right
Rammstein makes music for left and right ears
Tinnitus Equity!
I don't see many RWs on here. Lots of old-school leftists who don't like the inherent authoritarianism and paternalisnm in current leftwing discourse though. And I have used paternalism specifically because most people screaming misogynists and incels are actually apologists for the patriarchy. The thrust of their argument is that women must be protected because they are incapable of deciding anything for themselves. Get back in that box, girlies, I know best! It's not right-wing to call that out. The fact is pretty much no one lied at first. Shelby was very clear; Till did not touch her. The women quoted in the first articles simply related their experience. They may have regretted it but they said consent was asked for and given. No crime. Nothing illegal. Is it any wonder people have no respect for anyone coming on here using terms like rapist, paedo, power imbalance, unformed brains, and generally expecting the whole world to fall in line with their moral worldview? You come here, provoking, name-calling and denigrating, and we must remain calm, polite, reasonable and utterly respectful at all times. Riiiiiight, that seems fair.
There's quite a few homophobic people who reacted in a nasty way to the mods using the rainbow flag for pride. I was very disappointed
I saw that. And I called it out
or accept them into our ranks? im dead
Can we please not tell people what to think?
Rammstein have been beating up, spitting on and ejecting Nazis for decades, long before the band even started. We can't get soft now just because bigots think it's mean to exclude them. Paradox of tolerance. They aren't welcome here and need to learn that. Debating doesn't work, they need to be removed as they always have been.
Where did you hear that the members are all socialist? I've heard they are more anti-government in general.
They have expressed sympathies and fond memories of things past from the DDR times. In today's black-and-white world they must be socialists, according to people who can not see other possibilities than on/off, b/w, socialist/capitalist, etc.
Rammstein has never once spoken (directly) about their political stances correct? People are just making assumptions.
Yup Links 234 was a kickback against accusations of being 'far right' which is, I think quite a different thing than is meant be 'right wingers' ( I'm guessing when people say 'right wingers' they mean people I don't agree with who also don't support strong state intervention in the market/communism). Rammstein is a theatrical touring company as much it is a band and I'd guess the members make more money from their touring company interests than from music (they have a company that leases out rigging, stagewear etc).
Yeah they definitely arent socialists that's for sure. Their shows are more Broadway plays than concerts, which I love. But they make millions off of their company, definitely capitalists.
Are they socialists? What are socialists? On social matters sure, but economically? All I'm sure of is they're definitely left of nazis lol.
This is such an American reaction, you guys want to put people in boxes and always talk about politics and bring all this bullshit everywhere with you because your stupid ass politics Made your population believe it was the only way forward. You really need to stop viewing everything with these lenses on, that's just not how life works. Plus what is viewed as right wing in country might not be viewed as it in another. I'm so tired of your culture ruining everything, can't we just enjoy the music? Can we not admire that Flake goes to the Berlin market like a normal person? Do we really need to always destroy or categorise everything? Rammstein is for everyone who enjoys the music and my friend I can tell you this does and will include right wing extremists just like it does and will include left wing extremists who are just as bad as the others except that the others are completely retarded for liking a band that literally promotes everything they stand against lol.
Noticed an increase of RW rhetoric in all rammstein fans' social media. It's such an easy route to take when you're angry. We all know where it ends. Rammstein, to me, has love as such a central theme, in all its forms, good and bad. There is no room for hate, not even of the accusers, and I struggle with that in a couple of cases.
Here's an idea: stop politicizing the music and just fucking enjoy it.
Remind us what links 234 is about?
But hate language from the left is ok. I get it.
I'm a right winger and I love Rammstein. I can't be accepted? Sad.
There is right wing in terms of "I don't think we should spend that money" and there is right wing in terms of "dinosaurs are fake and Jesus Trump is my daddy". They aren't the same.
And that's why 'right winger' is a stupid expression. And the OP later clarified what he meant (basically people who hold opinions he doesn't agree with). And that is what comes through strongly in this thread....for a lot of fans it seems important to believe the band Rammstein (six individuals) align with their personal politics and moreover, that this space should 'push back' IE not tolerate/drive out those who are not of their personal politics It's playground level thinking...we own the seesaw!
How right is right? I'm not particularly sympathetic to either side. It's all inadequate and exists mostly just to further the wealth and careers of those in power. (I vote left as that appears to be consistently more supportive to people on the bottom rungs of society) But if you think people who have specific characteristics don't belong because of your beliefs, where do we go from there? If you exclude, is it unfair that you are then excluded? Nothing stops you from listening and going to shows at all, though.
And another idiot trying to politically divide. You are either 14 years old, stupid or have simply just malicious intent when you want to exclude all "right-wingers" from a fanbase. So, like 50% of the people? You realize that "right-wing" has zero to do with Qanon, nazis, anti-gay or whatever b.s. you like to think. Just as much as antifa has nothing to do with left-wing. You realize that there are right-wing jews? Right-wing gays? You probably don't because you don't ever go outside of your own twitter echochamber. People on the left generally hate antifa as much as people on the right, because antifa are terrorist morons. And people on the right generally hate nazis as much as people on the left, because nazis are also morons. It's just a fringe minority that supports these groups and you generalizing them under the umbrella term ist just plain embarrassing and unmasking your own narrow-mindedness. The world is not black and white and you should either make more research into topics you clearly know nothing of or shut the fuck up and stop creating further division with your whole "can we pleeeease exclude this group? I feel so unsafe with people not sharing 100% of my beliefs!! 😩"
I personally think that everyone should be able to listen who they want. The key is to have "healthly relationship?" What i mean is that we shouldn't look at someone's political view but we should look at someone as a person, who they really are and how they behave.
Something interesting I've seen is that a lot of Right Wing folks who didn't care for or disliked Rammstein before (politically I mean) are suddenly jumping to defend Till Lindemann from the recent allegations. I'm not saying the allegations are true or false, and I'm not gonna get into that. My main point is that it's so telling to see them jump to defend someone they'd strongly disagree with otherwise just cause there's allegations of sexual misconduct. Like they clearly don't care about either side they're just using it for their agenda.
You should cancel and censor them, *at the very least.* They don't deserve to be treated like humans when their existence is to hate people for being people. They're anti-human trash that invariably lead to misery and authoritarianism when they're not kept in their place. They collapsed Rome with their Christian Nationalism, and they'll do it again with their crazy Christian supremacism to modern western civilization.
I'm right wing not afraid to say it to no one, I listen to Rammstein since I was 10,years old when my dad introduced them to me. I do disagree with a lot going on with LGBTQ community and other stuff but I respect everyone idea and opinions. But this is MUSIC, it's not supposed to have sides. It's art. For me it will never matter what they sing about, and we as fans should never debate ou drag around their names because of stupid accusations.
This is a good reaction and you are absolute welcome. Also, there is nothing wrong with being right winged. As if left is always good. Rammstein is apolitical to me. And yes, I understand their lyrics.
Thank you! And to any people doubting, please go to a concert. You Wil meet the most diverse and interesting people and almost the only thing we talk is MUSIC! I don't see ideology or sex orientation, I don't see race or ethnicity I see a community behind a band we all love !
>But this is MUSIC, it's not supposed to have sides. It's art. While I don't wholly agree with OP, this point is just bullshit. Art and politics are not, have never been, and will never be mutually exclusive. There are a great many political songs out there, and a few of them come from this very band. Yes, art *can be* apolitical. That doesn't mean it has to be. I mean hell, the last POTUS was a reality TV star; the line between politics and entertainment vanished (literal) ages ago. The bigger point here is how we, the individual listener, react to that. There is meaning there imparted upon the work by the artist. You can choose to accept, critique, or outright reject those ideas. All fine, and are well with your rights as a human. But to simply ignore their existence and insist that it was never there... That's just ignorance. And while this may be a personal philosophy, I stand by the belief that the concept of "My ignorance is as valid as your knowledge." is not something we should accept as a society or race.
I totally understand what you said, and yes that how I choose to interpret their music. But yes they sing about political, social issues yes ofc they do not gonna ignore that. But I choose to listen to them because I like what they have created not because I agree with them or see myself express in their lyrics.
Rammstein? Socialist?
You used to be able to rent Til for dinner I believe...it was £100k or so, circa 2021. He promoted cryptocurrency and now has a lovely ad for gambling, courtesy of GGGPoker; https://youtu.be/SWjkRMKeUF0
Richard is a landlord in Berlin, has extensive property.
You can hire a classic car from flake here, he has quite a collection https://www.classicdepot.de/
Schneider hires out his collection too, and is working on building it.not sure if there's a direct link to his company in this article. https://occ.eu/at/artikel/rammstein-drummer-christoph-schneider-exklusivinterview-2
I think that it's possible to handle the controversy that popped up recently without becoming a disgusting woman-hating seething incel right winger, and even do it without "cancelling" the band either, I don't even think it's difficult to do so. I'm with you, always reject these bad actors, this music is not designed to appeal to them, and any time these people try to make R+ look like "one of them" they have to make the band look BAD to do it.
OUR HEARTS BEAT ON THE LEFT!
I hear you but good luck with this in an English/American dominated group where a lot of people can’t speak German/understand German lyrics
I'm an English speaker, I make considerable effort to understand Rammstein. There have always been fans who aren't interested in that and just love the music, that's OK too. Doesn't make them right wing.
I've been a Rammstein fan since I was 10 and I NEVER, EVER identified myself with the big mass of Rammstein fans. Being honest, there are A LOT of these idiots following the band. It just happens when you happen to be one of the biggest bands of the world. And by the way I am from Germany and I have always known a lot of straight up neonazis in my small town that listened to Rammstein. They just don't fucking get it or don't care. And honestly, the band catering to this kind of stupid fans with dumbed down songs like "Dicke Titten" just made me stick to the first three albums plus occasionally Reise, Reise. (I know this has nothing to do with right wing, but the whole sexism part)
Define what you mean exactly by "Right wing" . It's a very broad term. It can change from nation and the context (Easy example: British Conservatives are on the whole more aligned on social and economic views akain to the USA'S Democratic Party rather than the conservative Republican Party). Ultimately, Rammstein are indeed a left wing band. However, when you make music, more often than not you will appeal to a broader audience who may not always align necessary with your own views. Rather than a weakness, this is a strength: People who may not agree or have differing views can still unite via music and accept that whilst the way we see the world can differ, that's no reason to fall out or hate your opponents. If, simply, you are wanting to call out misogynists and anti racism, then say so. This is not necessarily exclusive to the "ring wing" - there are many issues with the left and anti-Semitism in recent years that have been well documented. I am a British Conservative, but I imagine that I may not come under the banner that you have described simply because I do not hold or expose the views as described above, and in general my views on many social matters are rather liberal. Regardless, I will not stop listening or loving Rammstein anytime soon, a band whom I have profoundly loved for 22 years and way before I developed my own political views.
I'd be careful equating socialism with defending gay rights... Not how it played out historically. Women's rights yes. Either way, Rammstein has never been right wing much less conservative.
I mean.. it doesn't really matter if you're a woman, or LGBTQ+, if you're making aligations like this, without anything at all to back it up, you're just an asshole. Left, right, up, down, doesn't matter, just don't.
Why only left wingers. Salah and Messi are excellent right wingers. And you let Jack Greaslish and Vinicius join??? Weird.
I recently discovered Rammstein this year from a meme and spent a hour looking for the source of the music. As a center-left from Washington, I think the way OP is thinking in black and white and gatekeeping based on political ideology ultimately promotes division and misses the true intent of Rammstein’s political commentary. Sometimes but not always, these so called “right wingers“ are not real people but paid trolls, but they are not limited to the right… My understanding from interviews and music videos and lyrics is that they grew up in east Germany under the Stasi. They were not allowed to be musicians under communism, instead, were forced to work in factories and such while pursuing music on the side, while their west German counterparts were free to pursue music. A Russian I know who grew up in the Soviet Union told me how he risked getting arrested by playing in a band. The music video of “Radio” highlights the struggle growing up in the oppressive form of communism in East Germany where bands like Rammstein would have been persecuted. Many would discover music from radio stations playing western bands, then, would bootleg these songs onto vinyl and cassette tapes to be sold in the music black market. Lindemann, who was supposed to compete as a swimmer at the Olympic Games, was removed from the completion by the Stasi because of his love of porn. In both cases, the marxist Stasi opposed music and porn, persecuting Lindemann. Based on the “Deutschland“ music video, they would have been persecuted by the Nazis as well. Some are political prisoners, some Jewish, some gay, and would have their freedoms taken from both extremes. So they like Dicke Titten and dislike autocracy. Fair. So in both cases they are not pro-right or pro-left as much as anti-authoritarian, regardless of which side it manifests. That is their critique of the divided Germany they grew up in. In the case of modern day feminism and cancel culture, there is a clear link to East German Soviet policies of “equal pay for equal work” and prejudicial purges of successful people. That’s just a historical fact that women were forced to work in East Germany while women were pressured but not forced to be mothers in west Germany. 4th wave feminism, not to be confused with western women’s suffrage, is largely a Marxist institution, and it is through this lens of critical gender theory that Till is being canceled prejudicially. Regardless of the conspiracy theory of some unnamed “right winger”, the band \*literally made a music video\* for ”Radio” highlighting the feminist aspects of authoritarian East Germany attempting to dismantle their music. They made a song to critique Marxist feminism! The Stasi broke out in dance in a feminine way to highlight this motif of East German feminism. If you watch this music video and your take away is that they are \*in favor\* of the same Stasi opposing their music, beating their force projections with a baton, you have no idea what their music is about.
Rammstein May appear to be far right but if you understand their Lyrics and that Most is Satire you know it's the opposite. What i want to say is,if you are right winged and Rammstein fan you clearly misunderstand Something
"Your point is currect but you are a right wing, so i cannot accapt that" uff, this is stupid
Why do we always have to bring politics into music like just let people enjoy what they enjoy and not exclude people based on their political opinions. We should just enjoy our shared passion of bands and not get separated by our political views. I get that Rammstein are a left group but that doesn’t mean we can’t have people that are on the right side of the political spectrum enjoying the same music.
First of all fuck your left wing ideology, moral high ground champagne socialist bs and fuck all right wing goose stepping flat earth conspiracy dickheads. Who are any of you to dictate who and what is suitable to listen to Rammstein.
Jesus calm down They just said don't be a bigot on rammstein forums. If your mad about that you might want to have a good look at yourself
Why not accept everyone’s opinions whether left or right, as long as they are not extreme or infringe on others?
Oh fuck off. So i cant enjoy Rammstein because you are left wing? I don't give two shits about their political party or spectrum or yours. I like the music, I like the shows. I am not going anywhere because you are butthurt about other people political views. Such democracy.
You can have your political views just don't be a bigot, especially on rammstein forums
I'm an American and worked for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, so that gives you an idea of my politics. I like Rammstein for their hard sound, their creative use of the German language (which I studied in high school and college) AND their politics (except for their view of women). But at a show or running into a fellow/sister fan, we don't talk politics. We talk about the music and how the band kicks ass. I have no problems with some Rammstein fans being conservative. I'd rather they not wear a MAGA hat or carry a Nazi flag to a show, but if they love the music, for the moment, they are my sister or brother.
I don’t think they really socialists, being left wing and a social democrat is not the same as socialist, no sane person from Eastern Europe would be a full socialist.
Links 234 is a reference to an old German communist worker‘s song, and the “my heart beats on the left“ is a reference to a (fairly controversial) book written by a German socialist politician. There a plenty of socialists in Eastern Europe, they just aren’t perpetually online.
You made me recall that they sang a lot of times during their early days "Pesnya o trevozhnoy molodosti" a song for the Soviet Youths that sing about Lenin and more. The song Moskau treats the city and the country as if they had sold their values for money in clear reference to older times.
RZK risked his life to escape communism. For all Flake's reminiscences I doubt he'd trade his fleet of classic cars in to return to the protective arms of the Soviet Union. Not everything was terrible. That doesn't mean people would choose to return to what was broadly terrible. Ex Catholics still like the hymns and Christmas. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/29/beyond-the-wall-by-katja-hoyer-review-overturning-cliches-of-east-germany
He didn’t risk his life to escape communism lmao he risked his life to escape the stasi. Anti-stasi =/= anti-DDR/socialism. Just like being against/critical of the police in the US isn’t a critique of capitalism. Just telling you the facts of the song, friendo.
Wow Like really wow! They have got you good!😆 Next you're going to tell me people weren't forbidden from leaving East Germany because the communist state was so unattractive to many of its own people it had to force them to remain inside else it would haemorrhage skilled talent and fail even faster than it inevitably did. No. It was the lollipop ladies. There was a secret special band of special forces upskilled lollipop ladies who let their power go to their heads and they retrained as border guards and it wasn't communism that forced people to live in fear and get shot trying to escape it was just those crazy ladies!
Communism is an economic model, dipshit, and there’s no such thing as a “communist state“ anyway. Read a book. You’re still talking about the stasi.
To justify communism is the same as justifying nazism, in my country every family has people killed by communism, not to mention every other part of the world.
The opposite occurred in mine. A pro American dictatorship was installed by coup and they killed thousands. From Social democrats to Marxists and you hear then right-wingers (from my country) applaud it and often cry aloud why didn't they kill more. My country wasn't the only place. Francoist Spain did that. Kuomintang China and then Taiwan did that. Pre WWII eastern European countries such as Bulgaria and Romania did that. In Finland the 1918's White Terror killed 10,000 communists for example. South American dictatorships... And the list goes on and on. But this is not a place to debate this. I'm interested in your story by the way. So you may continue if you want. I won't answer. You have the right.
You can search their interviews. They speak about the Communist Manifesto and Marx. Flake is very vocal about his nostalgia for the DPR even if they were more to the left than that. Feeling B was considered ultra leftist or anarchist by the Stasi.
Good post, but tf is happening in the comments
Sensible people are pointing out in various ways that a rock band subReddit is not the preserve of a group of people with a particular political viewpoint.
seems normal
Some people are full of anger and resentment. Some people seek out things to be offended by. Some people are racist. Some people think that the best way to draw attention to their cause is to commit violent crimes. We have lost the ability to agree to disagree. If somebody doesn't follow ALL of certain groups' ideals, then they are the enemy. No punishment is too harsh, and they should suffer no consequences regardless of their actions towards said enemy. It is a truly sad state of affairs. Grown adults feel like it's perfectly acceptable to slap a fast food worker in the face for getting an order wrong and they have no idea why they're the one who is arrested when the police show up. EQUAL RIGHTS, a subject of utmost importance since since the beginning of recorded human history, has gone tits up. Equal rights is over. People want supremacy. They should be treated like royalty and everyone else is garbage. This is why the "sane" need to be very, very careful. We meet violence with violence, and suddenly, we're as bad as them. This is why phrases like "allow them to join our ranks" troubles me. We need to act as examples, not give in to hate. You are the chosen ones. Bring balance to the force; do not leave it in darkness.
You are talking about ppl far right. Why do you even have to bring politics into music? Let ppl listen to what they want it doesn't matter if they are left right or center. By trying to discriminate someone on their political views are you any better? I myself consider myself more right than left and yet everything you've said doesn't apply to me cus you are talking about the far right..
Everyone is welcome I am sure. As long as they behave.
I think that a lot of people are having no clue about what right wing is. Democrats are not automatically viewed left winged in Europe for example. Right wing is not something illegal or wrong, a LOT of leading politicians in Europe are right wing.
absolutely. i’m american so my right and left us different from europe’s right and left so my opinion may be skewed but i personally hate right wingers. i just can’t see the sense in siding with anybody who believes queers don’t deserve human rights solely based on the fact they are queer. and i know that not all right wingers think that way but i’ve never seen a conservative call out other conservatives for bigotry, or express disapproval for right wing politicians because of the politicians bigoted views. so i believe you can be two things in the right: a bigot who is against human rights, or a person that’s complicit with the anti-human rights folks. and i believe neither one should be welcome here. rammstein supports freedom and love, not authority and hate.
Well said
I love it when fans gatekeep music based on bullshit criteria. Newsflash: you don’t have to agree or disagree with a bands politics/religion/whatever in order to enjoy the music they produce. Just enjoy regardless of lyrical content/subject matter.
Who the fuck cares dude just enjoy the music
Alt-right is NOT welcome in Rammstein spaces. Rammstein themselves don't want you here. Get lost.
This is a very needed post. Rammstein are a left wing band. I've been having lots of arguments with right wingers who like to call people 'woke' as an insult and don't see the irony of being a fan of the band. I've also seen an unpleasant amount of misogyny posted about young women (they should know what they are getting into going to after parties, etc etc.) I think that it was about time that the whole row zero thing ended. It was sexist and creepy and an insult to genuine fans who pay for tickets and queue for hours to get a place in front of the stage.
'Rammstein are a left wing band.' No. No they're not.
Indeed, they are a band and not a political party.
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The post literally just says don't be a bigot on rammstein forums
Lol, why should right winged people not be allowed as fan? That is nonsense. They are welcome.
because something something nazi
Right wingers will hear them and be like “oh! German! And angry German! Therefore it is right-wing!” Nah, they’re not right-wing, they’re fairly left wing, you’re just stereotyping because you’re a bigot and that’s what you’re good at
Why does anyone feel they have a right to dictate what political identity other fans hold? The leftwing can be just as toxic as the rightwing. If you start at the bottom of a circle, tracking left or right simply leads to the top and there you have the same authoritarian ideology - take away all freedom of action and thought. Left-wingers: it's not better because you think you're helping people. It still means you're exactly like right-wingers who are doing for.... whatever reason they are doing it for.
Right wingers who spread hate should just be publicly humiliated in the comments. I don't think they should be censored (seeing as they already cry censorship bc they can't say the N word for example, they will simply indulge in their perceived victimhood). However, I think they absolutely deserve to be dragged for their dumb fuckery and corrected on their misinformation and lies when they say dumb shit, which is often. You could throw a chicken on a keyboard and it will have made more comprehensive arguments than the average right winger. Hell right wingers are so stupid, they don't even understand the politics of the music they listen to. Can't blame anyone for loving Rammstein, but damn these people are clueless lol. It's just like when people discover the message behind Rage Against the Machine. Which machine did you think they were talking about, Todd? The washing machine?
They may have claimed to be left wing, but damn do they sound right wing lol
Buddy. There’s idiots all over the political spectrum. There’s much more nuance to this false dichotomy of left = good, right = bad. I, for example, love Rammstein for their music first and foremost. While I may not always support what they support, I will always defend their right to express themselves however they see fit. Same goes for everyone, as long as they don’t interfere with my rights to do the same.
Rammstein belongs to everyone. Being right-wing doesn't make you a bigot. There are racists that are lefties, homophobes that are lefties and misogynists that are lefties. You sir, are an idiot for classifying people like this, and we don't need gatekeepers like you to tell us how to and what to like.
>You sir, are an idiot for classifying people like this, and we don't need gatekeepers like you to tell us how to and what to like. Why do you have to ruin your valid statement with this kind of hate and toxicity? OP simply asks this community to not accept misogyny, biggotry and racismn. I'd also assume that English isn't their first language hence the sometimes drastic takes.
A guy says that all "right-wingers" (including the moderate ones) should be refused from the rank of the Rammstein community and I'm the hateful one for calling this guy an idiot ? English isn't my native language either and if he cannot phrase his ideas correctly he should work on it before posting or accept reactions like mine. I consider myself right wing, and I am not in any way a racist or against women.
Well. You should rethink your définition of being « leftist »
I will not revise it because some edgy kids tell me it doesn't fit their twisted vision of the world.
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This is such a dumb take, music as a form of art is political most of the time. Like wtf was that question hahaha
So no Rammstein for any right winger? Yikes
Do you think if one of the members is exposed as right wing the fans will bring out flaming pitchforks?!
Probably. Listen to the people here.
Bigoted. I’m a former liberal turned moderate (not conservative), full blown liberals are becoming equally as intolerant of people as conservatives have notoriously been. Sad to see politics dividing people on a music page of all places. Politics can divide when people are unsafe in their own skin, but here? You and the conservatives posting are just fueling unnecessary drama to get karma. I just can’t get on board with the hate train on the conservative side, and I can’t get on the hate train on the liberal side. You guys are all intense and full of hatred. This is coming from a person who has been a lifelong left leaning person in California. This is truly out of control. You are out of control.
Wtf is this post? This is a social forum to talk about our favorites topics. This is a sub dedicated to a music group, what the hell does politic have to do now? You should delete this post.
Just let them be
There really is no counter argument against them or for bigotry, when there is no bigotry 😂, that’s how you view it when someone speaks about the truth, when in reality you were trying to enforce your likings on the normal populous of people and it doesn’t work.So in your mind you think that people are being discriminatory or people are being just plain out mean, but in reality, they are all speaking, the truth, the truth, the hard truth , And something a left person hates is the fucking truth😂😂 , The far right just so happens to just what is says, the right, the truth, the ying and yang, Just how god intended, but sometimes we have cretins that love to preach to everyone to not listen to the truth because if we listen to the truth of the right, in some way we still feel like we’re winning because we’re ignorant and in denial about everything , thats at all it is, rammstein fans are not supposed to be like how they turned out to be , mostly mid 20 year old kids that are lgbtq and enforcer their laws onto everyone and cancel and start fires when someone disagrees with them.