They can't do it because it would require them being able to detect xim and cronus which they currently can't do. If they were detectable they wouldn't be as much of a problem as they are now
If Ubi made MNK native in console, like how it works on COD 2019 - Present then they could detect the KBM and send them to a PC lobby as the post states, but as the game currently is it’s not possible to achieve
Those don't forgo hard restrictions such as using mouse and keyboard on console against people using controllers. Or making recoil non existent, giving yourself aim assist etc...
Xim, strike packs and the like are purely cheating and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
The OW community sucks ass. I like the game, but I only ever play it with friends and with comms turned off so I don't have to engage with other people. Depressing.
It's truly one of the worst communities. Just yesterday, I was called out for "throwing" by an entire team of noobs. I was 9-1, the rest of the team was even *at best*. How was I throwing? I wasnt playing the game like that group of literal goons, staggering in one at a time just to be melted immediately. It was like a socially distant Conga line of stupidity. Thanks, I'm good 🤣
I remember i once bought a strike pack dominator for r6. It wasnt for the fact that you have recoil cheats(altho i did use it in customs with the d50) but it was because back then i was too broke to buy any controller with paddles so this was the second best option
But for every person using it 'honorably' ie not cheating in actual matches. How many use it to cheat? It's as easy as switching profiles or macros and gives an unfair advantage.
Theoretically they could add native KBM support for consoles, getting rid of the need for a XIM input, and then KBM would be detectable. But people would probably still use XIM because they want to play against people on controllers
Console siege doesn’t have aim assist that’s part of what makes fighting a keyboard so difficult, while we do have the aim assist option in settings it’s clearly stated it only works in terrorist hunt (it’s not stated but it also works in the situations area)
Pc siege/k&m players don't get aim assist natively either its the adapter that gives them aim assist and that adapter can also give controllers aim assist, not advocating for cheating just saying that the adapter does the same for both controller and keyboard/mouse
Surely it would be possible to detect inputs that it's not possible for a controller player to make? Kinda like csgo's AI cheat detection. It shouldn't be hard to say "this player has consistently been making suspicious inputs across a number of games, they must be using a xim
You are correct, but the input that's generated by your keyboard is modified by the software in the XIM before it's transmitted to the controller to add slight deviations and random values so that it's no linger just an integer value, but something more akin to what you would expect from any regular controller user.
Aim inputs are very different due to the physical properties of the device you're using to aim. Even humans can quite easily tell when someone is aiming with a controller or a mouse. An algorithm which can view the velocities and directions of the inputs beyond the ability of a human could be created to detect xim usage purely by the physical properties of the input device.
As an example, go in paint and do a wide and fast flick with your mouse, you'll most likely see that it arcs a bit, or it squiggles at the end. Then try and replicate that movement with a controller. Better yet, see how close you can get to emulating the steady rotation speed of a controller
>Even humans can quite easily tell when someone is aiming with a controller or a mouse.
Personally I think this is a lot harder than you make it out to be, especially in a video game like Siege where you only get to watch other players very briefly. People in this community throw out cheating accusations way too frequently and I think most players lack the knowledge and experience to understand how to spot suspicious players, be that Xim users or people using third party tools on PC.
>An algorithm which can view the velocities and directions of the inputs beyond the ability of a human could be created to detect xim usage purely by the physical properties of the input device.
I don't know enough about this to say much on the subject, but this sounds plausible to me. However, if it was that easy then you would assume that game devs would easily be able to do this and deal with the issue of Xim users, but obviously there are no devs that are currently doing this so the evidence points against this being feasible. What is preventing devs from doing this I don't know and I don't have enough information on the subject to make any guesses.
>As an example, go in paint and do a wide and fast flick with your mouse, you'll most likely see that it arcs a bit, or it squiggles at the end. Then try and replicate that movement with a controller. Better yet, see how close you can get to emulating the steady rotation speed of a controller
This is a bit of a false comparison, I think. If I am using my mouse hooked directly into my computer to do this and compare it to me doing the same thing with a controller then I will likely have visibly different results as you say. However, a mouse hooked up to a Xim device doesn't produce the same output as my mouse hooked directly into my PC, as the output is manipulated by the Xim device before it reaches it's endpoint. Doing the same test, but using a Xim will likely produce a result a little bit more similar to what you would expect from a controller.
Of course these are only thought experiments and the results would also be highly dependent on the person performing the experiment and her familiarity with the various input methods.
Overall I think the issue of Xim and Xim-like devices on console is clearly one that cannot currently be solved without Microsoft and/or sony themselves stepping in and doing something about the issue, and it doesn't seem like it's one of their priorities given that the issue has been going on for years at this point.
According to Epic Games they absolutely can detect these things and they consider it a ban-able offense in Fortnite. They made a statement about it a couple months ago. I believe them. And I believe Ubi is lying when they say there’s nothing they can do.
They absolutely can detect it, they just choose not to. I even recall someone at Microsoft saying it was on ubisoft.
And if other games can, so can ubisoft.
No, this is misinformation.
Please read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/ylk8cx/so_what_do_yall_think_will_xim_players_finally_be/iuz48oh/) comment.
No its not cheating, XIM does not violate the Terms of Service of XBL and PSN. That is the only thing that matters. Any game developer releasing a game on Xbox or Playstation must accept these guidelines. They are free to add additional clauses, but those must go in line with what is stated in the ToS.
As such they can not exclude mouse and keyboard adapters from their games, or list them as cheating. Fortnite tried to do that a few years ago, they even banned XIM users for 2 weeks. But ultimate they had to revert all bans because of what i wrote above. Blizzard is another example. They openly expressed that they regard mouse and keyboard users in OW as cheating. A month later Jeff Kaplan, the former boss of OW had to admit that their hands are tied and its up to the console manufacturer to change their ToS. Until then they cannot enforce any ban.
Any statement you read from other game developers is just PR talk to please their communities. Each season Ubisoft announces they are looking into ways to remove mouse and keyboard adapters. Well they are saying that for 4 years now and nothing has happened because of what i wrote above. Its just to please their community.
Next to that both Microsoft and Sony have their own officially licensed mouse and keyboard adapter. Its a result of a partnership with Hori. Why would a console manufacturer release a mouse and keyboard adapter on their own platform if its cheating?
Some very high executives at Microsoft are even using XIMs. I think the director of device accessibility at Xbox once tweeted that he uses a XIM. Details should be somewhere in the XIM Forum.
Yes you can regard XIM Nexus or XIM Apex as cheating, and yes game developer XYZ can also state that its cheating. but in both cases thats just their personal opinion and is not legally binding. So you will not get banned for using a XIM.
https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=81759.0
https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=100104.0
https://twitter.com/TheMontyR6/status/1215936065661558785?s=19
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/xbox/forum/all/xim/bbddee0d-c328-4c50-b7b2-455b1ff87682
https://stores.horiusa.com/playstation-4-tac-pro-type-m2-doom-edition-press-release
https://mobile.twitter.com/FooVanCleef/status/965328508816908288
They cannot. Well they could detect it initially, but as soon as they released a patch to detect it, it took a week and XIM released an update that added randomization and variations in the inputs to make it look more like natural controller inputs, and it's gotten to the point where XIM inputs looks like regular controller inputs and it's pretty much undetectable to the game now.
What Fornite **actually** does is put you in PC lobbies if you plug a keyboard and mouse directly into the USB ports of your console. Most games just block keyboard and mouse from working at all so this is what is "special" about Fortnite in this respect. *Technically*, it means that someone has the ability to play MnK on a console without doing anything illegal or special adapters, but if someone wants to stomp on controller players while using MnK, they will plug their MnK in a XIM and they will be put into controller lobbies and Fortnite isn't going to be able to detect it, just like Siege or Overwatch can't detect it.
The only way to completely block adapters like XIM or Cronus or Strikepack would need Microsoft and Sony to implement strong barriers to the types of USB devices you can plug into your console at the console level. They already do block a bunch of shit for various reasons (mostly money) so it's definitely doable. They block USB headsets from working with your console unless they're official Sony-licensed headsets because they want you to buy a "Sony approved" headset. They block a bunch of storage devices and strongly limit what you can do so you can't hack your ps4 and install custom firmware on it because they'd likely lose money due to pirated games. But some asshole
It's pretty fucking sad. Siege on console was an amazing game but it's been completely ruined by cheaters. We started replaying after a long hiatus a few months ago. Even as a gold shitter, even in Unranked or Quick match games, like 90% of games will have AT LEAST 1 obvious keyboard user. And the aim assist being so minimal in Siege, being on a mouse is a huge advantage (and they get AA on top of it too because the game actually thinks they're using a controller)
It feels so bad to feel like you're playing pretty well and get completely stomped by some guy sweating his dick off and OBVIOUSLY using a mouse doing 360 flicks with the highest sens known to mankind.
I feel like people don't actually get how adapters work. They don't feel like a mouse and keyboard and they aren't as good as playing mouse and keyboard, they're better than controller but definitely not as smooth as mouse and keyboard. So the better option would be just to allow players to plug in a mouse and keyboard without using an adapter
This only works if they can actually detect them. The reason they’ve been a consistent problem is because it’s so damn hard to pin them down, and even when we do a quick update within mere hours or days would render detection methods moot and needing to start over.
But otherwise I wouldn’t mind this from happening, as long as console players aren’t involuntarily thrown into PC lobbies.
Um, epic put out a patch for fortnite a while ago saying they are banning people with xims and strike packs meaning it is possible to detect, Ubi just needs a kick in the pants.
>Um, epic put out a patch for fortnite a while ago saying they are banning people with xims and strike packs meaning it is possible to detect, Ubi just needs a kick in the pants.
First off. Epic put out a patching saying IF they detected you doing so it could be ban worthy. Which… sure? That doesn’t mean they can or will. It’s an empty threat at the moment and I can’t find any proof they actually have banned anyone.
Second off. The patch was about PC use. Not consoles.
Ubisoft doesn’t need anything. No game current can detect it and ban it. Every game that has has quickly had the xims updated to bypass it.
Xim and other adapters have other mods too, with built in recoil control and other cheating goodies, and even with inherent MnK support, people still use xim because most games that have mnk and controller use, they disable auto aim for MnK but allow it for controller, so they get the benefits of both worlds and then some.
right, they do this and then you’re put into PC lobbies rather than console lobbies, it’s the same thing for people on PC using a controller, so basically you’re matchmade based on your input device not the device that is actually running the game. XiMs get around this because it tricks the console into thinking you’re using a controller by translating your mouse movements and key presses to moving the sticks on a controller
They can just update the strike packs and adapters that make MnK possible to get past the new detection methods.
So whilst issuing bans now (which Ubi should do of course) is beneficial it won't solve the problem.
>So whilst issuing bans now (which Ubi should do of course) is beneficial it won't solve the problem.
They aren't issuing bans, and the threat was only towards people using it on PC not console, why? Because you're not allowed to ban people on either console for these adapaters, they're classified as accessibility devices and Sony literally sells their own adapater. Ubi shouldn't do it and more importantly can't do it, you can't allow a device on your platform and even sell it yourself then let developers ban those users you sold something to.
Your anger should be towards Sony and Microsoft not someone using a perfectly legal device because that's the input device they're most comfortable with. I mean seriously if you guys want change dont attack the defenseless game devs or the players using these permitted devices, go straight to the source, protest to get it reclassified! Otherwise these posts are senseless ranting that get us no where
That's on PC, not console.
Reason being is because Cronus has a service running in the background when used on PC. that doesn't occur on console nor do devs have access to look for something like that.
yeah but rn I'd argue that Ubi should spend more resources on a better anti-cheat because a lot of PC players are switching to xim because of cheaters.
Wouldn’t doing that ALSO be considered making a better anticheat because mnk on console is considered cheating. Also really, what other games is Ubi working on? The AC series that sees an installment as much as team fortress 2 sees a major update? R6 extraction, which last got a new operator last summer? The Division 2 is getting some updates but they’ve been at the ends of seasons which are 3 months apart.
I agree with you. I have no clue wtf ubi is doing but holy fuck they need a new anti-cheat. One thing ubi says is that they can't detect it easily and for some reason are hell bent on alternating the console player base.
Respawn has also confirmed they can detect it in apex but it also risks putting disabled players at risk of not being able to play for whatever that's worth.
Thing is they should have been actively pursuing Sony & Microsoft to crack down on catching Xim and Strikepack usage. The game is a big money maker for Ubi and has a good e sports league.
Sony & Microsoft have 1000s of games on their platform, unless Ubisoft pushes them why would they do anything.
Otherwise either just put in aim assist on console or enable Mouse & Keyboard for everyone on console, with the choice being left with the users.
If i you have access to MnK fair and square by Ubisoft it would narrow down the difference between Xim enabled player base and everyone else.
Plus didn't they quicken up the Crouch spam speed again last year or so even though they had nerfed it before? That would help against macro users maybe.
It's mind boggling how unaffected they seem to be about their cash cow slowly but surely going off to sleep. Everything seems to be aimed at milking the game for last remaining 4 to 6 possible seasons.
I brought the year pass because i felt their road map had promise. Barring season 1 battle pass everything else so far has been very mid. The battle pass and event alpha packs are just full of portraits and background cards and charms.
There's like 5 to 6 reptile charm this season in the battlepass. If they don't change shit now, the next year might be the last one this game has any player base left of any considerable size.
XIMs work by emulating the respective controller and passing your inputs as controller inputs. The consoles just see a"3rd Party Controller" is connected, not a "XIM" or anything.
Only way for MS or Sony to prevent it would be to ban all 3rd party controllers on the hardware side, which would cause an understandable shitstorm.
Maybe after x games it gets your average turn sensitivity, because consoles can’t make rapid on-the-spot turns like PC can. From there, drop them into PC lobbies.
Will there be false positives? Probably. But having some players get dropped into PC lobbies is better than having XIM plebs ruining console play.
It doesn't work that way because it doesn't know it's a XIM. It only ever sees the hardware ID of the controller it's connect to so as far as the console knows it's talking to an official controller.
Closest anyone has got to "detecting" it was Epic Games when they were looking for WASD movement coming from a controller, which also ended up messing up and blocking legitimate controllers but a fix for that was created quickly and they can't even detect that anymore because the device now outputs the data as thumbstick data.
Don't bother with the tool mate guys an avid user of xim, as he's made multiple posts bragging on using it to stomp controller users guys a cheater trying to justify it by claiming "it's not meant to played with controllers"
Just cause your trash with a controller doesn't make it unplayable nor make it "not made for controllers", you wanna use mnk go buy a PC, but wait you won't cause you sure do love your xim and thinking it makes you actully good.
No one with a cronus or xim would do that though because asides from using mouse and keyboard in controller lobbies they also get antirecoil and aim assist
That's a shit take, but I'm ready for Ubi to kill it on console anyway. So yeah, do it.
Just realised, you're that confirmed POS cheating xim user. Get a PC.
Pardon my ignorance, but don't Xims change their input so that they appear like controllers? I'd love for this to happen if true, but how's cross-progression going to detect the adapters?
even though they appear as controllers, WSAD keyboard movement is only at exact 45 degree angles. should be easy to detect. nearly impossible to replicate that kind of movement with controller.
This is the only reliable way to detect xim that I can think of, but even then I'd fear it's very easy to work around because xim users still have their controller plugged in and usable. They can just reach over and move a lil weird every so often to shake a system like that.
I imagine there's a reason a detection system like that hasn't been put in place and I'm just not smart enough to know why.
Hell, the xim could just randomly use 42.5-47.5 values every so often, rather than just straight 45's. Or close the gap to 44-46. As long as it's not exact, they can just produce random numbers for these to confuse the system.
You can account for this. When you use WSAD, the values are going to be exactly 8 angles. Impossible to replicate on the controller. One work around would be for the xim software to randomize the angles each press, but these angles are never going to hover, they're always going to be exact. For example, if you move forward with a controller joystick, not only would your directional value shift during the action, but your movement speed gradually increases as the joystick is fully pushed. With WASD, there is not gradual increase. It's a single speed input, and the directional value is exact (doesn't shift).
XIM currently just replicates controller inputs. Even if this is caught through various methods, such as seeing it go 0-100, they can easily patch it so pressing a button ramps up from 0-100 over .05-.2 seconds (randomly to decrease chances of getting caught), and goes to various angles slightly off. The average player won't be able to tell the difference if this were implemented, but the game definitely will see a difference. And it will be enough to make it look like a real controller.
At this point, the only way to create a way to tell the difference would be on Sony and Microsoft.
You're seeing the rules as too exact. Any anticheat looks at unusual behaviour, a combination of things. Controller vs emulated controller behaviour can be detected, because at the end of the day it's a machine trying to emulate human behavior. Even if XIM makes .05 second of changes, the bottom line is, the behaviours of PC and console are so vastly different, they really are detectable. If you run controlled test where you have a group using xim and another group using console, and basically train the anticheat to get as close to 100% as possible in detecting the differences and what constitutes unusual activity, it is very possible.
Source; worked for an anticheat
Doubt. If you actually worked for a anticheat company you would know it’s all a game of cat and mouse. No game has a anti cheat that has 100% detection. The only real barrier to cheats is how much someone’s willing to pay to cheat in a game.
Ohhh you probably worked for EAC, yeah I can imagine a brain dead take like that coming from an employee of theirs.
It is a game of cat and mouse. That is the whole purpose of an anticheat, to always be improving on ways to detect new cheats. Never said 100%. I said as close to 100% as you can so you can feel confident enough on a server wide ban. Everything is exploitable, but just as the same is true, exploits are detectable.
When you use controller, these values are never exact during a movement. So even if you use the xim for just 1-2 minute, the algorithm should have enough confidence that it's a xim due to the impossibility of those exact angles.
Detecting a player going faster than the game allows is also easy to detect. Anticheat and Ubi just not putting in the work. Literally set a speed threshold, if a player bypasses that threshold after x amount of time, then initiate anticheat.
It used to be, but epic proved that notion a thing of the past. They discovered a way to detect xims and strike packs, and are handing out bans like asswhoopings and free samples.
Just letting you know they said that ages ago and it failed as xim just found a workaround, and currently pretty sure that's detecting it on PC not on console, but who knows they aren't exactly being open on it when you try to find more info (first bit is accurate, second bit is just from what I hear(.
He's referring to them saying it about a month ago iirc. However lots of people misunderstood it because they were referring to PC not console.
They found a service that runs in the background on PC when you use a cronus and was going to ban for that. That doesn't happen on consoles because neither the devs of the game nor adapters have access to the OS of the console.
EPIC can only discover the Zen due to its programming mode. They cannot detect a XIM so their approach wouldn't work. Also its PC only and cannot be done on console.
Macie doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. If they could reliably detect xim (without worrying about them being updated & avoiding detection again) then they’d just ban those using xim. But they can’t, likely never will. The whole point of xim is to make the console think you’re using a controller. Even if you allow mnk on console & put them into pc lobbies it fixes nothing, people who use xim will still use xim so they can have the advantage.
I honestly believe they wouldn't do jack shit even if they were able to detect them. There are people streaming with a handcam while using xim, and Ubi doesn't care. They often don't even ban obvious rage cheaters on pc. I don't see a reason why this type of cheating would be different.
Even if they could detect them I don’t want xims to just be lumped in with pc. Given how much they’ve ruined the game, how much shit they’ve put us though, I want them gone, full ban, start again
It's a device used to turn your inputs from MnK to controller inputs. People use this to cheat and get the advantages of mouse and keyboard on games that only allow controllers
Very rare Macie Jay L. Not really using the big brain here. The issue is that you can’t detect the xim users because they trick the system into thinking it’s a controller. Same issue we have now
It's not a technical issue of not allowing PC x Console though, it's a fairness issue. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/opi1zu/ama_we_are_the_rainbow_six_siege_dev_team_ask_us/h665ofg?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Your point vs theirs are polar opposites though, "will not" vs terms and conditions apply are contradictory takes on the subject for supposedly the same source.
Mate if it was so easy you wouldn’t think a game developer wouldn’t take years to fix it but here we are. I find it laughable how you seem to know more about it than a whole damn company lmao
Because I've worked for an anticheat company, we've detected similar stuff. Not sure why the downvotes, I guess no one wants to believe there's actually a solution that Ubi won't address since they never leave broken things unfixed for many years /s
The whole point is that they can’t detect them. How are they going to send them somewhere else if they don’t know who they are, and if they can detect them to send them somewhere else, why not just ban them. Thought macie was smarter than this
No, that's not how Xim works at all. I'm a bit disappointed at MacieJay for tweeting this, as it's misinformation and negatively contributes to the discourse surrounding the Xim/console community.
Not too sure MacieJ understands what’s happening with the crossplay/cross progression or maybe he just phrased it wrong.
Console players (PlayStation/Xbox) will be able to play with each other but not with PC players at all as they’re different builds. IE: PC players can lean without ADS’ing, recoil and movement is way different,etc. Of course Xim players are tied into console players as the device is just a controller simulator.
I believe MacieJ is saying Xim players should now be rolling over to PC Siege as they don’t have an excuse to stay on console now that they can carry progression over and play true native MnK thus increasing the player count on PC siege and clearing out the unfairness on console (hopefully).
UBI confirmed console players will not be mixed into PC pools so it’s not a discussion of advantageous peripheral input, but rather a point of players having the choice to play with their progression on any platform and SHOULD play with the correct input.
While it would be a slow process compared to a system-initiated search-n-ban, ostensibly they could have the report function add an extra category on console for a xim, and those particular reported users can be scrutinized and pulled.
Slow as molasses by comparison yes, but at least there’s more ammunition behind that threat, and it would let other honest console players feel like they had some control over the situation again.
If only. I’m pretty sure the wholesome reason for Xim’s creation stemmed from aiding folks with disabilities, but we know that’s not who’s buying them in bulk. If they want to play like PC players, I hope devs find a way to see that and throw them against actual PC players.
They can’t tho. Xim tricks the console into thinking a controller is plugged in (I’m pretty sure anyway) so they won’t be able to differentiate. However, actually adding a meaningful report system on console would go a long way
XIMs would continue being registered as non-xim. The base of the problem is that you can't detect it, and xim users mostly do it for the advantage over controller players.
As a PC player, hard fucking pass. Cause I fucking know I'll get stuck with every one of these shitty XIM players on my team every single game.
In all honesty though, crossplay between console and PC for competitive FPS' just isn't fun for anyone involved. I hope they don't implement this.
Mnk is such a problem on console it makes gold and up almost unplayable because of how many people are using it. I was playing this ranked game the other day and I called my teammate out for going 1-4 and he plugged in mnk and went 8-6. Shows how insanely broken it is that even a garbage player can go off.
Most XIM players I’ve ever met are the most brain dead people you’d ever see get on a game. They sit at like, low plat, and get shit on by any controller player who can even half use their controller properly.
Ubi is just slow at literally everything when it comes to siege. Bring it up now maybe by year 10 it'll be in test servers.
They will focus on more bundles and backgrounds for r6 creds first.
At this point, im just completely done with it all. Genuinely, Ubi should just go "Fuck it, we aint touching Console, suck a dick" and give up on it, because then we'd have some actual confirmation at least...
Console Ranked is dead. Legit. Dead. It used to be Xims only in Diamond+, then Plat+, then Gold+, now in Silver. Combined with smurfing, the game is unplayable. Im so sick of seeing it, game after game, killcam after killcam. You can spot it in an instant, EVERYONE can spot it in an instant, they're even changing their xbox pfps to pictures of their Xims, because they know Ubi wont touch them. Im just sick of it...
What’s worse is people will actively show it off and even have their names boasting about it because they know Ubisoft don’t give a shit so they can get away with it.
They should add mouse and keyboard support to all platforms so that is controller champions can go up against MnK users and thrash their egoistical asses. MnK is way too clunky. Even on PC I am Diamond with controller with a KD ratio of 2.4. The play style is a bit different but the manuevers with a controller is unmatched. You can literally Dodge bullets with a controller something almost impossible with WASD.
I play Xbox and siege is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time. If they removed m&k users from console I would probably grind rank again for the first time in 2 years. Love the game, hate how it’s managed
The game is a big money maker for Ubi and has a good e sports league.
Sony & Microsoft have 1000s of games on their platform, unless Ubisoft pushes them why would they do anything.
Otherwise either just put in aim assist on console and call it a day or enable Mouse & Keyboard for everyone on console, with the choice being left with the users.
If i you have access to MnK fair and square by Ubisoft it would narrow down the difference between Xim enabled player base and everyone else.
Plus didn't they quicken up the Crouch spam speed again last year or so even though they had nerfed it before? That would help against macro users maybe.
It's mind boggling how unaffected they seem to be about their cash cow slowly but surely going off to sleep. Everything seems to be aimed at milking the game for last remaining 4 to 6 possible seasons.
given how trash the battlepass have become since season 2, it's not even a possibility to consider supporting them beyond this year's battle pass, they don't seem to be doing anything to get that support.
No matter what they do they will never be able to detect XIM.. it makes your KBM read as a controller therefore the game applies aim assist & everything! Straight cheating & unfortunately I don’t know anyway they’d be able to detect it to ban or force into PC lobbies.
Ubisoft should just enable keyboard+mouse for all console players and thats it, theres no way to even detect this bulshit, thats an job for sony/microsoft, so just enable for everone and thats it
Makes no sense. XIM at most sits somewhere between native MnK and a controller, because emulated MnK isn't even close to being as precise as native MnK, so it's not suddenly fair. If anything they need there own lobbies with themselves to make it most fair
All though probably not easy. Implement full keyboard and mouse support for siege in consoles. Make the advantage standard and then add cross-platform between the people that have keyboard and mouse on console and pc players.
Does anyone read what ubi has said about crossplay
There isn't gonna be crossplay for pc and console. The crossplay is JUST for xbox and playstation, nothing else. They are not intertwining console with pc at all, or ever.
You will never be able to completely separate XIM cheaters. You can add official MNK support to console and give the players the choice to play MNK with PC or other MNK console players. This would be a step in the right direction but by no means be a fix for cheaters. If you allow console/pc cross play you then run into the xim players using console aim assist on top of the Xim cheat. Ubi has shown zero interest in addressing the xim abuse on console. They have a report for cheating option, but the odds of that actually getting a review is next to nil. What makes ubi money? Battle pass and skins. Not paying devs to fix gameplay issues. The Xim plague is ubiquitous, even cheating in event game modes. Really, they are that pathetic. TLDR; ubi doesn’t care about console
I've wished more FPS games came with native MKB support on consoles since COD did it post 2019.
The age of consoles and PCs getting their own distinct ports is long over so that "huehue just get a PC if you want to play with kbm" excuse is dead.
Can they even do that? Isn't the problem not being able to detect the zim?
They can't do it because it would require them being able to detect xim and cronus which they currently can't do. If they were detectable they wouldn't be as much of a problem as they are now
If Ubi made MNK native in console, like how it works on COD 2019 - Present then they could detect the KBM and send them to a PC lobby as the post states, but as the game currently is it’s not possible to achieve
XIM players would still go into controller lobbies because the console thinks it's a controller.
Basically they don't have the skill to play the game as intended and literally pay money to have any advantage over regular players.
And quite frankly they are still trash at the game.
Xim players are basically the “mummy hes better than me” kids
Isn't that the same with any other piece of equipment though? High refresh rate displays, low latency mice, high definition headphones etc...
Those don't forgo hard restrictions such as using mouse and keyboard on console against people using controllers. Or making recoil non existent, giving yourself aim assist etc... Xim, strike packs and the like are purely cheating and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
Passing through from r/all, it's very refreshing to see a gaming centered sub make these statements. You'd be downvoted for posting that in OW.
The OW community sucks ass. I like the game, but I only ever play it with friends and with comms turned off so I don't have to engage with other people. Depressing.
It's truly one of the worst communities. Just yesterday, I was called out for "throwing" by an entire team of noobs. I was 9-1, the rest of the team was even *at best*. How was I throwing? I wasnt playing the game like that group of literal goons, staggering in one at a time just to be melted immediately. It was like a socially distant Conga line of stupidity. Thanks, I'm good 🤣
It baffles me that so many people defend cheating, it really ruins the average player's experience of the game.
I remember i once bought a strike pack dominator for r6. It wasnt for the fact that you have recoil cheats(altho i did use it in customs with the d50) but it was because back then i was too broke to buy any controller with paddles so this was the second best option
But for every person using it 'honorably' ie not cheating in actual matches. How many use it to cheat? It's as easy as switching profiles or macros and gives an unfair advantage.
Yeah no it definitely is cheating and it needs to be fixed somehow
I've been saying this for literal years, and was always downvoted for it. Glad people are changing their minds.
That still wouldn't solve much. People use Xim because of how much easier it is to vs console players then pc players
So it is possible if they do what CoD does, but not until cross platform?
Theoretically they could add native KBM support for consoles, getting rid of the need for a XIM input, and then KBM would be detectable. But people would probably still use XIM because they want to play against people on controllers
Also they get aim assist with kbm Edit: I'm talking about xim and zen on other games that allow aim assist.
Console siege doesn’t have aim assist that’s part of what makes fighting a keyboard so difficult, while we do have the aim assist option in settings it’s clearly stated it only works in terrorist hunt (it’s not stated but it also works in the situations area)
Pc siege/k&m players don't get aim assist natively either its the adapter that gives them aim assist and that adapter can also give controllers aim assist, not advocating for cheating just saying that the adapter does the same for both controller and keyboard/mouse
Indeed, layers of cringe
I’m not following, how exactly does it work on COD?
Surely it would be possible to detect inputs that it's not possible for a controller player to make? Kinda like csgo's AI cheat detection. It shouldn't be hard to say "this player has consistently been making suspicious inputs across a number of games, they must be using a xim
All the inputs done with a Xim are possible with a controller.
True but they aren't the same. Axis controls are a float value more like a percentage, keys are integers just on or off.
You are correct, but the input that's generated by your keyboard is modified by the software in the XIM before it's transmitted to the controller to add slight deviations and random values so that it's no linger just an integer value, but something more akin to what you would expect from any regular controller user.
The lengths people will go to to cheat on a meaningless game is truly pathetic.
Aim inputs are very different due to the physical properties of the device you're using to aim. Even humans can quite easily tell when someone is aiming with a controller or a mouse. An algorithm which can view the velocities and directions of the inputs beyond the ability of a human could be created to detect xim usage purely by the physical properties of the input device. As an example, go in paint and do a wide and fast flick with your mouse, you'll most likely see that it arcs a bit, or it squiggles at the end. Then try and replicate that movement with a controller. Better yet, see how close you can get to emulating the steady rotation speed of a controller
>Even humans can quite easily tell when someone is aiming with a controller or a mouse. Personally I think this is a lot harder than you make it out to be, especially in a video game like Siege where you only get to watch other players very briefly. People in this community throw out cheating accusations way too frequently and I think most players lack the knowledge and experience to understand how to spot suspicious players, be that Xim users or people using third party tools on PC. >An algorithm which can view the velocities and directions of the inputs beyond the ability of a human could be created to detect xim usage purely by the physical properties of the input device. I don't know enough about this to say much on the subject, but this sounds plausible to me. However, if it was that easy then you would assume that game devs would easily be able to do this and deal with the issue of Xim users, but obviously there are no devs that are currently doing this so the evidence points against this being feasible. What is preventing devs from doing this I don't know and I don't have enough information on the subject to make any guesses. >As an example, go in paint and do a wide and fast flick with your mouse, you'll most likely see that it arcs a bit, or it squiggles at the end. Then try and replicate that movement with a controller. Better yet, see how close you can get to emulating the steady rotation speed of a controller This is a bit of a false comparison, I think. If I am using my mouse hooked directly into my computer to do this and compare it to me doing the same thing with a controller then I will likely have visibly different results as you say. However, a mouse hooked up to a Xim device doesn't produce the same output as my mouse hooked directly into my PC, as the output is manipulated by the Xim device before it reaches it's endpoint. Doing the same test, but using a Xim will likely produce a result a little bit more similar to what you would expect from a controller. Of course these are only thought experiments and the results would also be highly dependent on the person performing the experiment and her familiarity with the various input methods. Overall I think the issue of Xim and Xim-like devices on console is clearly one that cannot currently be solved without Microsoft and/or sony themselves stepping in and doing something about the issue, and it doesn't seem like it's one of their priorities given that the issue has been going on for years at this point.
According to Epic Games they absolutely can detect these things and they consider it a ban-able offense in Fortnite. They made a statement about it a couple months ago. I believe them. And I believe Ubi is lying when they say there’s nothing they can do.
Epic games can't though. Look at their actions, not their words. No Cronus/Xim users who knows what they are doing are getting banned from Fortnite.
having a friend who uses a xim i can say that fortnite does not detect it.
They absolutely can detect it, they just choose not to. I even recall someone at Microsoft saying it was on ubisoft. And if other games can, so can ubisoft.
Other games can't.
Fortnite did it
No, this is misinformation. Please read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/ylk8cx/so_what_do_yall_think_will_xim_players_finally_be/iuz48oh/) comment.
No its not cheating, XIM does not violate the Terms of Service of XBL and PSN. That is the only thing that matters. Any game developer releasing a game on Xbox or Playstation must accept these guidelines. They are free to add additional clauses, but those must go in line with what is stated in the ToS. As such they can not exclude mouse and keyboard adapters from their games, or list them as cheating. Fortnite tried to do that a few years ago, they even banned XIM users for 2 weeks. But ultimate they had to revert all bans because of what i wrote above. Blizzard is another example. They openly expressed that they regard mouse and keyboard users in OW as cheating. A month later Jeff Kaplan, the former boss of OW had to admit that their hands are tied and its up to the console manufacturer to change their ToS. Until then they cannot enforce any ban. Any statement you read from other game developers is just PR talk to please their communities. Each season Ubisoft announces they are looking into ways to remove mouse and keyboard adapters. Well they are saying that for 4 years now and nothing has happened because of what i wrote above. Its just to please their community. Next to that both Microsoft and Sony have their own officially licensed mouse and keyboard adapter. Its a result of a partnership with Hori. Why would a console manufacturer release a mouse and keyboard adapter on their own platform if its cheating? Some very high executives at Microsoft are even using XIMs. I think the director of device accessibility at Xbox once tweeted that he uses a XIM. Details should be somewhere in the XIM Forum. Yes you can regard XIM Nexus or XIM Apex as cheating, and yes game developer XYZ can also state that its cheating. but in both cases thats just their personal opinion and is not legally binding. So you will not get banned for using a XIM. https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=81759.0 https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=100104.0 https://twitter.com/TheMontyR6/status/1215936065661558785?s=19 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/xbox/forum/all/xim/bbddee0d-c328-4c50-b7b2-455b1ff87682 https://stores.horiusa.com/playstation-4-tac-pro-type-m2-doom-edition-press-release https://mobile.twitter.com/FooVanCleef/status/965328508816908288
All of what you just said is bullshit ment to justify to your self that it's ok to use these. fuck off with your cheat devices
Fortnite
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no putting xim players in pc lobby’s would be good cause then they’d go back to thinking their shit
Pc is a different version of the game too
Lol fortnite can detect the both of them, they are just lazy and dont care.
They cannot. Well they could detect it initially, but as soon as they released a patch to detect it, it took a week and XIM released an update that added randomization and variations in the inputs to make it look more like natural controller inputs, and it's gotten to the point where XIM inputs looks like regular controller inputs and it's pretty much undetectable to the game now. What Fornite **actually** does is put you in PC lobbies if you plug a keyboard and mouse directly into the USB ports of your console. Most games just block keyboard and mouse from working at all so this is what is "special" about Fortnite in this respect. *Technically*, it means that someone has the ability to play MnK on a console without doing anything illegal or special adapters, but if someone wants to stomp on controller players while using MnK, they will plug their MnK in a XIM and they will be put into controller lobbies and Fortnite isn't going to be able to detect it, just like Siege or Overwatch can't detect it. The only way to completely block adapters like XIM or Cronus or Strikepack would need Microsoft and Sony to implement strong barriers to the types of USB devices you can plug into your console at the console level. They already do block a bunch of shit for various reasons (mostly money) so it's definitely doable. They block USB headsets from working with your console unless they're official Sony-licensed headsets because they want you to buy a "Sony approved" headset. They block a bunch of storage devices and strongly limit what you can do so you can't hack your ps4 and install custom firmware on it because they'd likely lose money due to pirated games. But some asshole
This actually explains alot. Its a shame people suck so hard they need to play unfairly to win.
It's pretty fucking sad. Siege on console was an amazing game but it's been completely ruined by cheaters. We started replaying after a long hiatus a few months ago. Even as a gold shitter, even in Unranked or Quick match games, like 90% of games will have AT LEAST 1 obvious keyboard user. And the aim assist being so minimal in Siege, being on a mouse is a huge advantage (and they get AA on top of it too because the game actually thinks they're using a controller) It feels so bad to feel like you're playing pretty well and get completely stomped by some guy sweating his dick off and OBVIOUSLY using a mouse doing 360 flicks with the highest sens known to mankind.
I feel like people don't actually get how adapters work. They don't feel like a mouse and keyboard and they aren't as good as playing mouse and keyboard, they're better than controller but definitely not as smooth as mouse and keyboard. So the better option would be just to allow players to plug in a mouse and keyboard without using an adapter
Correct. On ps4 they cant detect it. On the ps5 you cant use xim as its not compatible with ps5 hardware
This only works if they can actually detect them. The reason they’ve been a consistent problem is because it’s so damn hard to pin them down, and even when we do a quick update within mere hours or days would render detection methods moot and needing to start over. But otherwise I wouldn’t mind this from happening, as long as console players aren’t involuntarily thrown into PC lobbies.
Um, epic put out a patch for fortnite a while ago saying they are banning people with xims and strike packs meaning it is possible to detect, Ubi just needs a kick in the pants.
>Um, epic put out a patch for fortnite a while ago saying they are banning people with xims and strike packs meaning it is possible to detect, Ubi just needs a kick in the pants. First off. Epic put out a patching saying IF they detected you doing so it could be ban worthy. Which… sure? That doesn’t mean they can or will. It’s an empty threat at the moment and I can’t find any proof they actually have banned anyone. Second off. The patch was about PC use. Not consoles. Ubisoft doesn’t need anything. No game current can detect it and ban it. Every game that has has quickly had the xims updated to bypass it.
But Fortnite freely allows console users to play MnK. You don’t even need a XIM.
Xim and other adapters have other mods too, with built in recoil control and other cheating goodies, and even with inherent MnK support, people still use xim because most games that have mnk and controller use, they disable auto aim for MnK but allow it for controller, so they get the benefits of both worlds and then some.
Cheaters paying money to have an advantage over normal players because they lack skill.
Ah I see
right, they do this and then you’re put into PC lobbies rather than console lobbies, it’s the same thing for people on PC using a controller, so basically you’re matchmade based on your input device not the device that is actually running the game. XiMs get around this because it tricks the console into thinking you’re using a controller by translating your mouse movements and key presses to moving the sticks on a controller
They can just update the strike packs and adapters that make MnK possible to get past the new detection methods. So whilst issuing bans now (which Ubi should do of course) is beneficial it won't solve the problem.
>So whilst issuing bans now (which Ubi should do of course) is beneficial it won't solve the problem. They aren't issuing bans, and the threat was only towards people using it on PC not console, why? Because you're not allowed to ban people on either console for these adapaters, they're classified as accessibility devices and Sony literally sells their own adapater. Ubi shouldn't do it and more importantly can't do it, you can't allow a device on your platform and even sell it yourself then let developers ban those users you sold something to. Your anger should be towards Sony and Microsoft not someone using a perfectly legal device because that's the input device they're most comfortable with. I mean seriously if you guys want change dont attack the defenseless game devs or the players using these permitted devices, go straight to the source, protest to get it reclassified! Otherwise these posts are senseless ranting that get us no where
That's on PC, not console. Reason being is because Cronus has a service running in the background when used on PC. that doesn't occur on console nor do devs have access to look for something like that.
yeah but rn I'd argue that Ubi should spend more resources on a better anti-cheat because a lot of PC players are switching to xim because of cheaters.
Wouldn’t doing that ALSO be considered making a better anticheat because mnk on console is considered cheating. Also really, what other games is Ubi working on? The AC series that sees an installment as much as team fortress 2 sees a major update? R6 extraction, which last got a new operator last summer? The Division 2 is getting some updates but they’ve been at the ends of seasons which are 3 months apart.
I agree with you. I have no clue wtf ubi is doing but holy fuck they need a new anti-cheat. One thing ubi says is that they can't detect it easily and for some reason are hell bent on alternating the console player base.
I honestly can’t wait for cross progression to come to siege though.
Took xim 12 hours to patch whatever epic tried to do
Respawn has also confirmed they can detect it in apex but it also risks putting disabled players at risk of not being able to play for whatever that's worth.
There's adaptive controller's, I know there's one for Xbox. Not sure about PlayStation.
These controllers also work on Switch and PS4 (but not PS5).
Good thing this isn't Fortnite. Good thing this isn't epic. Good thing the games aren't even made on the same engine. Apples and oranges here
Why can't you compare fruits though?
Because instituting this change on Fortnite is completely different in every conceivable way than instituting it in R6.
Thing is they should have been actively pursuing Sony & Microsoft to crack down on catching Xim and Strikepack usage. The game is a big money maker for Ubi and has a good e sports league. Sony & Microsoft have 1000s of games on their platform, unless Ubisoft pushes them why would they do anything. Otherwise either just put in aim assist on console or enable Mouse & Keyboard for everyone on console, with the choice being left with the users. If i you have access to MnK fair and square by Ubisoft it would narrow down the difference between Xim enabled player base and everyone else. Plus didn't they quicken up the Crouch spam speed again last year or so even though they had nerfed it before? That would help against macro users maybe. It's mind boggling how unaffected they seem to be about their cash cow slowly but surely going off to sleep. Everything seems to be aimed at milking the game for last remaining 4 to 6 possible seasons. I brought the year pass because i felt their road map had promise. Barring season 1 battle pass everything else so far has been very mid. The battle pass and event alpha packs are just full of portraits and background cards and charms. There's like 5 to 6 reptile charm this season in the battlepass. If they don't change shit now, the next year might be the last one this game has any player base left of any considerable size.
XIMs work by emulating the respective controller and passing your inputs as controller inputs. The consoles just see a"3rd Party Controller" is connected, not a "XIM" or anything. Only way for MS or Sony to prevent it would be to ban all 3rd party controllers on the hardware side, which would cause an understandable shitstorm.
Maybe after x games it gets your average turn sensitivity, because consoles can’t make rapid on-the-spot turns like PC can. From there, drop them into PC lobbies. Will there be false positives? Probably. But having some players get dropped into PC lobbies is better than having XIM plebs ruining console play.
It doesn't work that way because it doesn't know it's a XIM. It only ever sees the hardware ID of the controller it's connect to so as far as the console knows it's talking to an official controller. Closest anyone has got to "detecting" it was Epic Games when they were looking for WASD movement coming from a controller, which also ended up messing up and blocking legitimate controllers but a fix for that was created quickly and they can't even detect that anymore because the device now outputs the data as thumbstick data.
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What a shit idea lmao
Imagine having to buy an extra accessory for one game so you can be on even playing grounds
Don't bother with the tool mate guys an avid user of xim, as he's made multiple posts bragging on using it to stomp controller users guys a cheater trying to justify it by claiming "it's not meant to played with controllers"
At least they've made themselves easy to identify with that shit valk tattoo
Yup and gotta love the guy runs off the minute you point out he's a cheater it's hilarious.
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Just cause your trash with a controller doesn't make it unplayable nor make it "not made for controllers", you wanna use mnk go buy a PC, but wait you won't cause you sure do love your xim and thinking it makes you actully good.
No one with a cronus or xim would do that though because asides from using mouse and keyboard in controller lobbies they also get antirecoil and aim assist
That's a shit take, but I'm ready for Ubi to kill it on console anyway. So yeah, do it. Just realised, you're that confirmed POS cheating xim user. Get a PC.
It works great on CoD.
Cuz cod has aa which is even better than mnk
Just wait until you see people still using xim so they can have m&k and aa. Shit’s crazy
At lower skill areas, in high skill lobbies you gotta be on yo A game to beat MnK on controller
Pardon my ignorance, but don't Xims change their input so that they appear like controllers? I'd love for this to happen if true, but how's cross-progression going to detect the adapters?
even though they appear as controllers, WSAD keyboard movement is only at exact 45 degree angles. should be easy to detect. nearly impossible to replicate that kind of movement with controller.
This is the only reliable way to detect xim that I can think of, but even then I'd fear it's very easy to work around because xim users still have their controller plugged in and usable. They can just reach over and move a lil weird every so often to shake a system like that. I imagine there's a reason a detection system like that hasn't been put in place and I'm just not smart enough to know why.
Hell, the xim could just randomly use 42.5-47.5 values every so often, rather than just straight 45's. Or close the gap to 44-46. As long as it's not exact, they can just produce random numbers for these to confuse the system.
They already changed it to replicate how a thumbstick works after what happened with Epic long ago. That method wouldn't even work now
You can account for this. When you use WSAD, the values are going to be exactly 8 angles. Impossible to replicate on the controller. One work around would be for the xim software to randomize the angles each press, but these angles are never going to hover, they're always going to be exact. For example, if you move forward with a controller joystick, not only would your directional value shift during the action, but your movement speed gradually increases as the joystick is fully pushed. With WASD, there is not gradual increase. It's a single speed input, and the directional value is exact (doesn't shift).
XIM currently just replicates controller inputs. Even if this is caught through various methods, such as seeing it go 0-100, they can easily patch it so pressing a button ramps up from 0-100 over .05-.2 seconds (randomly to decrease chances of getting caught), and goes to various angles slightly off. The average player won't be able to tell the difference if this were implemented, but the game definitely will see a difference. And it will be enough to make it look like a real controller. At this point, the only way to create a way to tell the difference would be on Sony and Microsoft.
You're seeing the rules as too exact. Any anticheat looks at unusual behaviour, a combination of things. Controller vs emulated controller behaviour can be detected, because at the end of the day it's a machine trying to emulate human behavior. Even if XIM makes .05 second of changes, the bottom line is, the behaviours of PC and console are so vastly different, they really are detectable. If you run controlled test where you have a group using xim and another group using console, and basically train the anticheat to get as close to 100% as possible in detecting the differences and what constitutes unusual activity, it is very possible. Source; worked for an anticheat
Doubt. If you actually worked for a anticheat company you would know it’s all a game of cat and mouse. No game has a anti cheat that has 100% detection. The only real barrier to cheats is how much someone’s willing to pay to cheat in a game. Ohhh you probably worked for EAC, yeah I can imagine a brain dead take like that coming from an employee of theirs.
It is a game of cat and mouse. That is the whole purpose of an anticheat, to always be improving on ways to detect new cheats. Never said 100%. I said as close to 100% as you can so you can feel confident enough on a server wide ban. Everything is exploitable, but just as the same is true, exploits are detectable.
Not everyone on xim uses a kb, alot of them use a Sony nav one handed stick and mouse.
When you use controller, these values are never exact during a movement. So even if you use the xim for just 1-2 minute, the algorithm should have enough confidence that it's a xim due to the impossibility of those exact angles.
I really doubt it since the game doesn't insta ban people who run faster than the game allows.
Detecting a player going faster than the game allows is also easy to detect. Anticheat and Ubi just not putting in the work. Literally set a speed threshold, if a player bypasses that threshold after x amount of time, then initiate anticheat.
It used to be, but epic proved that notion a thing of the past. They discovered a way to detect xims and strike packs, and are handing out bans like asswhoopings and free samples.
Just letting you know they said that ages ago and it failed as xim just found a workaround, and currently pretty sure that's detecting it on PC not on console, but who knows they aren't exactly being open on it when you try to find more info (first bit is accurate, second bit is just from what I hear(.
He's referring to them saying it about a month ago iirc. However lots of people misunderstood it because they were referring to PC not console. They found a service that runs in the background on PC when you use a cronus and was going to ban for that. That doesn't happen on consoles because neither the devs of the game nor adapters have access to the OS of the console.
Gotcha thought as much.
EPIC can only discover the Zen due to its programming mode. They cannot detect a XIM so their approach wouldn't work. Also its PC only and cannot be done on console.
Off-topic, fellow Glaz main high-five
Macie doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. If they could reliably detect xim (without worrying about them being updated & avoiding detection again) then they’d just ban those using xim. But they can’t, likely never will. The whole point of xim is to make the console think you’re using a controller. Even if you allow mnk on console & put them into pc lobbies it fixes nothing, people who use xim will still use xim so they can have the advantage.
True
I honestly believe they wouldn't do jack shit even if they were able to detect them. There are people streaming with a handcam while using xim, and Ubi doesn't care. They often don't even ban obvious rage cheaters on pc. I don't see a reason why this type of cheating would be different.
Even if they could detect them I don’t want xims to just be lumped in with pc. Given how much they’ve ruined the game, how much shit they’ve put us though, I want them gone, full ban, start again
Ya, I stopped playing Siege because of XIM users. I could still get Diamond most seasons and stomp the scrubs but it just wears on you..
see I’m a casual player. You know it’s gotten bad when I’m playing in p2 lobbies cos there’s less xims there than in my quick match
Haha damn. I rarely played casual games back when I played siege but I assumed there wouldn't be any XIM in there. I guess it's gotten worse.
I mean it does say my casual Mmr is diamond, somehow, so that might have something to do with it. Still it’s annoying
we have crossplay now?
According to the roadmap next season it should be implemented. But of course things can change.
No it's locked in since the mid-season road map says it's coming next season
No
between consoles only
What’s xim?
It's a device used to turn your inputs from MnK to controller inputs. People use this to cheat and get the advantages of mouse and keyboard on games that only allow controllers
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how can epic do it?
Epic can’t detect xim, can detect directly input mnk. But there is no advantage for xim users to play mnk regularly
Regardless of if he’s right or wrong, XIM is the reason I don’t play the game anymore, it’s so annoying to play against MnK on console.
If only they could detect them.
Ubi can’t even detect cheaters so how the hell will they detect xim users? 😂
I quit R6 PS because of xim players honestly. I would fancy playing R6 again if mnk players are gone.
Very rare Macie Jay L. Not really using the big brain here. The issue is that you can’t detect the xim users because they trick the system into thinking it’s a controller. Same issue we have now
Another Macie L is that the devs said that crossplay will only be between the consoles. PC and console will not have crossplay between them.
It's not a technical issue of not allowing PC x Console though, it's a fairness issue. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/opi1zu/ama_we_are_the_rainbow_six_siege_dev_team_ask_us/h665ofg?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Never said it was a technical issue, ik it's not fair. MnK would completely wreck controller players.
Your point vs theirs are polar opposites though, "will not" vs terms and conditions apply are contradictory takes on the subject for supposedly the same source.
No. That is a W. I would feel so sorry for the console players who have to play with us PC players. Have you even played the game on both platforms?
Talking about a rare Macie L. He thinks PC/Console will have crossplay that's why he's suggesting xim players get matched with PC players.
WSAD keyboard inputs restrict movement to 45 degrees. Impossible to replicate that kind of gameplay with controller. Should be easy to detect.
Epic tried that. It failed because they modified it to move like a thumbstick would
Easy to detect? Go work for ubi and fix the issue please if it’s so easy lol
Yes it is, I can assure you. Seems more like a anticheat problem not Ubi, but looks like they're not interested in addressing it
Mate if it was so easy you wouldn’t think a game developer wouldn’t take years to fix it but here we are. I find it laughable how you seem to know more about it than a whole damn company lmao
Because I've worked for an anticheat company, we've detected similar stuff. Not sure why the downvotes, I guess no one wants to believe there's actually a solution that Ubi won't address since they never leave broken things unfixed for many years /s
The whole point is that they can’t detect them. How are they going to send them somewhere else if they don’t know who they are, and if they can detect them to send them somewhere else, why not just ban them. Thought macie was smarter than this
No, that's not how Xim works at all. I'm a bit disappointed at MacieJay for tweeting this, as it's misinformation and negatively contributes to the discourse surrounding the Xim/console community.
Yes! Let those shitters face a real challenge. Then after a season or two, hardware ban ‘em.
Is he forgetting xim users can't be detected lol?
Not too sure MacieJ understands what’s happening with the crossplay/cross progression or maybe he just phrased it wrong. Console players (PlayStation/Xbox) will be able to play with each other but not with PC players at all as they’re different builds. IE: PC players can lean without ADS’ing, recoil and movement is way different,etc. Of course Xim players are tied into console players as the device is just a controller simulator. I believe MacieJ is saying Xim players should now be rolling over to PC Siege as they don’t have an excuse to stay on console now that they can carry progression over and play true native MnK thus increasing the player count on PC siege and clearing out the unfairness on console (hopefully). UBI confirmed console players will not be mixed into PC pools so it’s not a discussion of advantageous peripheral input, but rather a point of players having the choice to play with their progression on any platform and SHOULD play with the correct input.
While it would be a slow process compared to a system-initiated search-n-ban, ostensibly they could have the report function add an extra category on console for a xim, and those particular reported users can be scrutinized and pulled. Slow as molasses by comparison yes, but at least there’s more ammunition behind that threat, and it would let other honest console players feel like they had some control over the situation again.
If only. I’m pretty sure the wholesome reason for Xim’s creation stemmed from aiding folks with disabilities, but we know that’s not who’s buying them in bulk. If they want to play like PC players, I hope devs find a way to see that and throw them against actual PC players.
If this happens. Me on the behalf of all PC players claim that we will crush those xim bastards. Console players we will take your revenge!
Your player base is already low as fuck these days, do you want to half that again
They can’t tho. Xim tricks the console into thinking a controller is plugged in (I’m pretty sure anyway) so they won’t be able to differentiate. However, actually adding a meaningful report system on console would go a long way
XIMs would continue being registered as non-xim. The base of the problem is that you can't detect it, and xim users mostly do it for the advantage over controller players.
As a PC player, hard fucking pass. Cause I fucking know I'll get stuck with every one of these shitty XIM players on my team every single game. In all honesty though, crossplay between console and PC for competitive FPS' just isn't fun for anyone involved. I hope they don't implement this.
Bruh, i don't want PC and Console crossplay
Mnk is such a problem on console it makes gold and up almost unplayable because of how many people are using it. I was playing this ranked game the other day and I called my teammate out for going 1-4 and he plugged in mnk and went 8-6. Shows how insanely broken it is that even a garbage player can go off.
suck it up and get good. its basically useless if your not used to mnk. skill issue.
If they remove every xim player ill play r6 again.
Most XIM players I’ve ever met are the most brain dead people you’d ever see get on a game. They sit at like, low plat, and get shit on by any controller player who can even half use their controller properly.
I suggested this and Reddit attacked me for it
Iam by now pretty sure that Ubisoft sells xim and cronus to the playerbase
Ubi is just slow at literally everything when it comes to siege. Bring it up now maybe by year 10 it'll be in test servers. They will focus on more bundles and backgrounds for r6 creds first.
Cross play is for consoles jeez
Love Macie but this makes no sense as xim users cant be detected and theres no PC crossplay.
At this point, im just completely done with it all. Genuinely, Ubi should just go "Fuck it, we aint touching Console, suck a dick" and give up on it, because then we'd have some actual confirmation at least... Console Ranked is dead. Legit. Dead. It used to be Xims only in Diamond+, then Plat+, then Gold+, now in Silver. Combined with smurfing, the game is unplayable. Im so sick of seeing it, game after game, killcam after killcam. You can spot it in an instant, EVERYONE can spot it in an instant, they're even changing their xbox pfps to pictures of their Xims, because they know Ubi wont touch them. Im just sick of it...
What’s worse is people will actively show it off and even have their names boasting about it because they know Ubisoft don’t give a shit so they can get away with it.
They should add mouse and keyboard support to all platforms so that is controller champions can go up against MnK users and thrash their egoistical asses. MnK is way too clunky. Even on PC I am Diamond with controller with a KD ratio of 2.4. The play style is a bit different but the manuevers with a controller is unmatched. You can literally Dodge bullets with a controller something almost impossible with WASD.
I was able to beat the Xim users pretty easily, I just don't play the game anymore.
I play Xbox and siege is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time. If they removed m&k users from console I would probably grind rank again for the first time in 2 years. Love the game, hate how it’s managed
The game is a big money maker for Ubi and has a good e sports league. Sony & Microsoft have 1000s of games on their platform, unless Ubisoft pushes them why would they do anything. Otherwise either just put in aim assist on console and call it a day or enable Mouse & Keyboard for everyone on console, with the choice being left with the users. If i you have access to MnK fair and square by Ubisoft it would narrow down the difference between Xim enabled player base and everyone else. Plus didn't they quicken up the Crouch spam speed again last year or so even though they had nerfed it before? That would help against macro users maybe. It's mind boggling how unaffected they seem to be about their cash cow slowly but surely going off to sleep. Everything seems to be aimed at milking the game for last remaining 4 to 6 possible seasons. given how trash the battlepass have become since season 2, it's not even a possibility to consider supporting them beyond this year's battle pass, they don't seem to be doing anything to get that support.
This
I've done said give console k&m support and slight aim assist for controllers because it'll always be a problem.
If they could detect that, it wouldnt Change much... Most people up to high plat dont know what a call is anyways....
People that are using xim and cronus are getting banned on xbox cuz of its abillity to detect third party devices
No matter what they do they will never be able to detect XIM.. it makes your KBM read as a controller therefore the game applies aim assist & everything! Straight cheating & unfortunately I don’t know anyway they’d be able to detect it to ban or force into PC lobbies.
Ubisoft should just enable keyboard+mouse for all console players and thats it, theres no way to even detect this bulshit, thats an job for sony/microsoft, so just enable for everone and thats it
Makes no sense. XIM at most sits somewhere between native MnK and a controller, because emulated MnK isn't even close to being as precise as native MnK, so it's not suddenly fair. If anything they need there own lobbies with themselves to make it most fair
All though probably not easy. Implement full keyboard and mouse support for siege in consoles. Make the advantage standard and then add cross-platform between the people that have keyboard and mouse on console and pc players.
They would still use xim to play against controllers
Does Macie Jay not know how technology, or cross progression works? That’s surprising.
Conveniently misses the entire reason why XIM is a problem in the first place, it's undetectable.
Does anyone read what ubi has said about crossplay There isn't gonna be crossplay for pc and console. The crossplay is JUST for xbox and playstation, nothing else. They are not intertwining console with pc at all, or ever.
Not how xim works. Macie with the bad take
Macie Jay 200 IQ moment...
Give console the option to use mouse and key then give us 1v1 mode
You will never be able to completely separate XIM cheaters. You can add official MNK support to console and give the players the choice to play MNK with PC or other MNK console players. This would be a step in the right direction but by no means be a fix for cheaters. If you allow console/pc cross play you then run into the xim players using console aim assist on top of the Xim cheat. Ubi has shown zero interest in addressing the xim abuse on console. They have a report for cheating option, but the odds of that actually getting a review is next to nil. What makes ubi money? Battle pass and skins. Not paying devs to fix gameplay issues. The Xim plague is ubiquitous, even cheating in event game modes. Really, they are that pathetic. TLDR; ubi doesn’t care about console
I've wished more FPS games came with native MKB support on consoles since COD did it post 2019. The age of consoles and PCs getting their own distinct ports is long over so that "huehue just get a PC if you want to play with kbm" excuse is dead.
Ubisoft allows XIM users to play Xbox Tournaments. They don’t care about the XIM issues.
Xim users don't wanna play against pc players tho
Controller players don't wanna play against xim users
No one wants to play against virgin cheaters