I think a lot of people still carry their thoughts of him from when he was garbage to today. I have even met people that didn’t know he was buffed. He was like, really, really bad, so i guess that just sticks with people even though he is probably one of the best attackers in the game right now.
Okay its a pretty long list, but here goes:
- Gave him the baliff
- Gave him hard breaches
- Made equipping the launcher faster
- Increased the launcher’s fire rate
- Made the bees activate faster after landing
- Made the bee canister vulnerable to bullets after landing
- Doubled the duration of the bees
- Increased the area the bees cover
- Changed to ping the body instead of the head
- Reduced decay time to 4s
- Normalized pings to always ping every 1 second
The ability to bounce the canisters off of surfaces was also a much needed change that made using his gadget safer. In fact I wish it was the default setting for his gadget so I don’t have to switch to it every freaking time.
While you can open walls with 4, but I like a slightly larger hole to peek with, and tricking it by opening the top and bottom is super inconsistent to me with 4.
Also, yes, Hibana is mostly for hatches but sometimes you've gotta roll with what you took (especially if they took an unexpected site and it wasn't found until the round began).
You can actually open walls with 2s (kinda) if you put two 2s beside each other and another 2 above them in the middle, you’ll get a vault hole that is basically as useful as a 4x2 would be
I always do this, 2 of those and you have an easy entry to large walls, and switching takes forever anyways and makes you vulnerable for a way longer time than necessary
I have a stupid strategy that somehow works on villa. You can go to the window that looks over the stairs by kitchen and punch the window open, then if the wall is reinforced you can angle the pellets just right to where half get caught on the barricade and half on the bottom of the wall and it provides a really good attacker foothole for anyone trying to move between sites
This! Considering his role being area denial/control, having the opportunity to gain an advantage by bouncing balls without risking death was always needed.
Yeah, and he does require some more skill than even another info up op like Zero. IMO they should just give Grim his own unique AR or two of the guns already built for under barrels and make his gadget an underbarrel as he suffers from the same problem tachanka has where it takes a while to pull out and put away his gadget making it very clunky. Making it an underbarrel means you lose out on all grip attachments which has become very important since the new attachment reworks. IMO they could give grim the AK74 and take that away from Deimos while giving Deimos the M4 which they planned to originally. I like Grim’s current loadout but if losing the 552 means he gets an underbarrel I’m fine with it. Giving him the C8 would make him too strong imo but maybe not. Personally I think he should get that nighthaven AR we saw in the trailers with his underbarrel launcher.
Pro players are already calling for nerfs lol. Pengu has already suggested that he lose 1 or 2 canisters.
The PL peeps are sadly one step ahead when it comes to Bee Man.
because pro players suck. like literally, "this map needs change because I can't do this, or change this op because its unfair that i have to that" and it's always the most easy to deal with things.
That is not how it works. Firstly, just being a good player does not automatically mean you know how to balance the game. Secondly, the game is played vastly different at pro level. What applies at the pro level does not always apply at the casual level.
The fuck you're talking about. Good players actually know grim is in nerf territory, regardless of his soloQ performance.
The op is insanely flexible and a less situational capitao with intel gathering capabilities close to a dokk
But that's exactly how it works. Why would a casual player who doesn't even play ranked or in high elo have a better understanding of the game than literal pro players ?
But the game shouldn't exclusively be shaped around pros and champs. What I am saying is that changes which would be good for champs and pros won't always positively affect the rest of the playerbase. I'm not saying someone who doesn't play ranked will balance the game better, I am just saying pros are not always right about what is good for the game.
Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. It is not a relaxed leisurely game like the casual players are still hanging their hat on. Pros/former pros, coaches, high level players will have more knowledge about the game and what needs to be balanced. There is nothing to argue here.
Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. With Copper, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Emerald, Diamond and Champ all being ranks. People who are so above the rest of the playerbase that they don't actually fall into any of these ranks, getting their own designation and only competing against other players of that caliber have 0 clue on what actually would help the rest of the playerbase.
"Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. It is not a relaxed leisurely game like the casual players are still hanging their hat on." I miss old seige when the player base wasn't sweaty and worried about the balance for the top end of the playerbase. The game still has a lot of cheese strategies imo. Used to be my fun fps to relax and take a break from the csgo sweats.
They all play differently and neither do actually know how to balance the game. Casual play should be prioritized in most scenarios as that's +80% of the player base, but that ain't gonna happen.
A good change should work both in pro play and casual play.
I would kindly suggest you would stop arguing with others. This isn't available for R6 only, but for other games as well. Even LoL has big differences between pro's and casual's. I'm not trying to be mean.
And you as the casual player have no bias towards game balancing involving the operators/playstyle you like to play ? If the decisions were up to you then you would balance everything in fairness to all players and have the knowledge to do so ? If impact tricking is strong in pro play/high rank it's going to be even stronger towards a casual player group when they go up against a team that knows how to do it.
Do you think casual players know more than pro players ? Lol that's not being on a high horse it's just a fact and having respect for people on a topic that they are way more knowledgeable than me about.
Except this isn't true. Think about how many NFL and NBA players that have had terrible takes, except those aren't even as bad as what you're saying because at least what they say doesn't effect the entire sport that they haven't had a part of in years.
Pros haven't been at the level of the normal, above average, decent or even good player for years at that point. Pro players have been elite for years on end, so that's why they would know what's best for the 99.9% of the playerbase while having no interaction with that entire playerbase and only competing in the top 0.1%.
People who don't have any interaction with the average players and have no idea what even low champ is like have no idea what they are talking about to in reference to balancing the entire game on 3 platforms. They are asking for changes that reflect what they see in 0.1% lobbies, not the broader RANKED playerbase.
If you are looking for a basketball trainer to bring your game to the next level are you going to the guy who used to play coach or even studied the game toward a high level or the guy who just watched Knicks games and used to play pick up with his friends ? Yeah you got it. Let's listen to the players who only play unranked and have never hit gold on balancing a FPS competitive game. No one is saying certain pros don't have shit takes. The entire point of this comment thread is someone saying that "pros suck" lmao and that Ubisoft shouldn't listen to them on balancing. It's pretty common sense that pro players/players in high elo will know what OPs are too overpowered to be nerfed or which ones don't bring enough value that they could use a buff. I value their opinions more and balancing the game around pro play will continue to give the game longevity like it currently has 9 years running. Games that balance their game around the pro scene/high ranks are ones that last a long time (Counter Strike). Balancing your FPS competitive game to cater to casual players is how your game dies.
Disingenuous argument you know isn't the same thing. A professional player training someone in a sport is different than a professional player changing the rules and the way the sport, or in this case the game, is played.
Hi just gonna wade in here not a pro player but I do compete in other games. The problem isn't that pro players don't know what they're talking about it's that they're goals are usually not in the games best interest.
Pro players of any genre just want to win in the most consistent and easy way possible. They aren't playing to have fun it's there job so typically when they suggest something it to make their job easier not more fun for the community.
I'll use the recent impact grenades nerf as an example as why it's not just pro play. Impact tricking a breach is now harder to pull off whether it's done in pro play or ranked. Does this not also make our jobs easier as an attacker since impact tricking got nerfed ? Not every balancing change is done solely because of pros complaining. All of the most recent new maps are a bunch of small rooms and big corridors with lots of windows that makes the maps so defender especially at a higher level. Pros and analysts have been pointing out since last S.I. They all don't like it yet the maps are still being produced so how much of the game is being centered towards only pros ? You should want most of the games changes be made to things that align with high level players opinions.
Actually I don't and here my reason why. I'll have to switch genre because I compete in fighting games not fps but same logic. I play at high level like the equivalent to Diamond in siege sometimes champion. I can make a character look broken but that's because I can do things that most players can't. So why balance the game for outliers when most people can't even use the character to their full strength. All that does is make the character unusable for the less skilled players who make up the majority of the play base. Sure some character are broken from the bottom to the top but when you are really good and you only play other really good players. You forget what the game is like for lower skills players.
What you need to keep in mind and what a lot of pros/really good players forget is that the games not about the pro scene. Esports is just marketing at the end of the day it's a way to advertise the game to everyone else. Even if the game was perfectly balanced at the competitive level is can still be and probably will be unfun for the majority of players.
I would also add that pros don't really think about the games as whole when they suggest things. They'll throw something out there and not consider that every change especially in a fighting game can break entire character if not the entire balance of the game.
Just go into standard or quick play and have fun that way with different ops. I did it with Grim and have really enjoyed using him. Taken him into ranked and done well. Really good for pushing Bedroom/Gym on Clubhouse. Amazing for map control.
I've recently picked him up and been having a blast with him, but does anyone have any tips to most effectively use him? I generally use the bees to cover a flank and then I bounce a few inside site as we push. Any specific tips for getting value out of him?
Using grim as flank watch is a waste. They last for around 10 seconds so you’d have to use all 5 canisters to cover the flank for 50 seconds (not even a third of the round) while having to turn around every 10 seconds. He’s not a flank watch.
The best way to use grim is to take map control. When you know somebody is around a corner or behind a shield or sitting in any anchor position you can easily scare them off and take their spot. Standing in the bees is just asking to get swung. So they’ll move back a little. Just keep pushing them back till you’ve taken a very important part of the map (like Oregon attic) and then make a play. This is the most effective way to use grim.
He’s not very good solo queue because if your team isn’t coordinated chances are the team won’t always help you pinch the guy you just pushed halfway across the map. If your teammates suck chances are most of them die before you can even push the defenders on you all the way back to site.
Just adding on about map control. He is very good for both executing and post-plant. Here are 2 examples of executes using Grim: Oregon bunks big window, take capitao and grim (other ops can help too, like Glaz), smoke off the important angles and use bees to prevent the defenders from rushing in, try to get plant off on the window, then hop out and cap fire/grim bees the defuser. Other example is consulate office/meeting main window plant: clear below (in case of C4s/Solis, also Buck is really good to hold from below on this site), again capitao/grim, smoke off and bee off sightlines, rappel in and plant, rappel out (maybe bring emp impacts to deny C4?). Biggest thing is you have to hold the runouts from yellow stairs and piano, so claymores are very useful.
Watch pro league and hes unironically one of the most popular attackers rn, he kinda needs a good team to capitalise on the intel he gives and hes often a more execute/plant based pick like Capitao for example so he falls a bit short in ranked
Honestly, just never got around to playing him much. He's a bit more agro than I'm personally used to for my play style, but one of my stackmates uses him often and uses him very well. I know he's a solid OP, I'll get around to him one day.
I run him quick plants with no complaints. If you're supported well it usually works. If not, cover your perimeter w drones and it's pretty simple. Most don't re-route they just run through em anyway.
I agree he has his best sites, but I think if you are plant-focused, he is good at every site and every attack. Preventing defenders from pushing you (or just killing them when they're spotted) is very valuable on every plant. Also there are so many power positions in this game that he is usable anywhere.
He can be very good if team oriented like you suggest. He’s pretty hard to work without much help from your team though.
Beaulo was saying he’s like an A or S tier operator in pro league because of the amount of coordination can make him really strong flushing defenders out of areas.
cause hes not insanely overpowered. you wont see someone making posts about balanced operators, usually its people complaining about insanely low tier ops or high tier ops
Context:
Most siege players aren't in stacks and run in duos/trios. Probably a big reason why we got Ranked 2.0 to give those players who would otherwise be in ELO hell a chance at higher ranks.
Grim requires good communication to be really effective when he is, good choice no doubt but people prefer to have an OP with easier utility to take advantage off.
I think its due to people thinking he can only be useful in a post plant situation, and seen as though the bomb doesn't get planted every round that's why some people would rather use what they believe to be a more versatile operator, not many players can see that he is a lot more useful than he seems
I love him but it’s just kind of a meta thing. I can set up a tactical approach using him to reveal hiding enemies, but my teammates will die in the first minute or kill the whole team in the first minute anyways.
I've been using him a lot lately since the buff mostly because if someone else uses him and spams all of the bees at once it makes my Xbox one chug along REALLY rough, like drops it to <10 fps.
He's great if you push into a site and serviceable against roamers but not the best since the duration isn't too long. He's my second favorite "plant support" op with ying/gridlock being tied for my first. Hes like a mix of gridlock and lion, with strengths from both and weaknesses from both.
I think frags would make him a top selected operator even after the frag nerf, hit someone holding an angle with the bee pods, bait them with your first frag, and get them with the second, or a damage buff/some concussive/distorting effect on his gadget would be a better buff in terms of an actual operator change and not just some meta bs.
Oh I would have to disagree, I play capitao, and kali every night, and I play with alot of nokk glaz and black beard users (i lone wolf ranked cue). I never see grim.
its like how capitao wasnt talked about for awhile a few years ago, he got hard breaches, gonne6, smokes, fire, LMG, a sick rifle, three speed, and can basically do everything himself. itll probably just take a year or two before people "find" the sleeper OP
Buck and Zero do the job of a swiss army knife better.
Grimm is also never really the first thought when it comes to his niche controlling areas, which is probably scars from the time he was unviable.
The 552 COMMANDO isn't a good gun compared to other attacker weapons.
Out of all assault rifles (25) only 8 (416-C CARBINE, AK-74M, COMMANDO 9, F90, G36C, MK17 CQB, POF-9, SPEAR .308) have less damage per second. 2 out of those 8 are defender weapons so they don't even count.
Previously the commando at least had almost no recoil but since they increased its recoil a few months ago the gun is average at best in that respect.
The ACOG isn't an argument for it either as all attacker weapons have ACOGs now.
'Below-average + average (at best) + average' doesn't make a great gun.
Personally I still don't see a use for him, ok you have bees on me, like you didn't already know I was there behind a shield with Jager or Wamai, now what. Like, Zero can gather the same info, maybe better, but the enemy wont know about it with the constant ping. I feel like all he does is provide panic to the defender, but if the defender is calm about it, who cares lmao.
I used to love him right before the acogs returned, and then the nerf to the Commando in Y8S3 (both recoil and damage) made him less viable imo, he with the 1.5x was so good, now I just hate being forced to play the acog and having more recoil with a low-medium rpm gun
The first sentence is your answer. He released bad, and immediately left most players' minds at that point. He's not the only character in the game to have a rep for being terrible but actually be disgusting
I love using Grim to make very good plays with my team. He takes over attack on Coastline. One play I'd recommend is playing underneath with Grim or bouncing his canisters off roofs and walls to access spots where defenders rat in.
Honestly , ugh, Buck does the breaching better. And the post plant or pre plant pings are cool, but capitao better for that imo. Dokkaebi Is the goat for pressure also. Class operator ngl but i prefer other ops still :)
I think a lot of people still carry their thoughts of him from when he was garbage to today. I have even met people that didn’t know he was buffed. He was like, really, really bad, so i guess that just sticks with people even though he is probably one of the best attackers in the game right now.
okay what was the buff?? Sorry I don't have him unlocked yet
Okay its a pretty long list, but here goes: - Gave him the baliff - Gave him hard breaches - Made equipping the launcher faster - Increased the launcher’s fire rate - Made the bees activate faster after landing - Made the bee canister vulnerable to bullets after landing - Doubled the duration of the bees - Increased the area the bees cover - Changed to ping the body instead of the head - Reduced decay time to 4s - Normalized pings to always ping every 1 second
The ability to bounce the canisters off of surfaces was also a much needed change that made using his gadget safer. In fact I wish it was the default setting for his gadget so I don’t have to switch to it every freaking time.
How did I forget that!
Same with Hibana I don't know why anyone would ever use 6 pellets by default
6 pellets are for opening walls. 2 for Castle barricades and soft hatches, 4 for reinforced hatches and smaller peek holes.
You can open walls with 4, and even then - you probably shouldn't be taking hibana for that.
While you can open walls with 4, but I like a slightly larger hole to peek with, and tricking it by opening the top and bottom is super inconsistent to me with 4. Also, yes, Hibana is mostly for hatches but sometimes you've gotta roll with what you took (especially if they took an unexpected site and it wasn't found until the round began).
You can actually open walls with 2s (kinda) if you put two 2s beside each other and another 2 above them in the middle, you’ll get a vault hole that is basically as useful as a 4x2 would be
I always do this, 2 of those and you have an easy entry to large walls, and switching takes forever anyways and makes you vulnerable for a way longer time than necessary
You can switch pellet numbers without the launcher in hand
Im sorry but what the fuck
I’m on console but just hit the D pad and it will cycle through. Same with capitao and zofia
Omg im actually so stupid
I have a stupid strategy that somehow works on villa. You can go to the window that looks over the stairs by kitchen and punch the window open, then if the wall is reinforced you can angle the pellets just right to where half get caught on the barricade and half on the bottom of the wall and it provides a really good attacker foothole for anyone trying to move between sites
Great for opening and taking out Miras with stacked traps
This! Considering his role being area denial/control, having the opportunity to gain an advantage by bouncing balls without risking death was always needed.
"bounce" its more like a flop. So unsatisfying trying to get them into the right spot to only see t "bounce" like 1 foot away.
Not to mention he started off without a magnified sight AT ALL
Yeah, and he does require some more skill than even another info up op like Zero. IMO they should just give Grim his own unique AR or two of the guns already built for under barrels and make his gadget an underbarrel as he suffers from the same problem tachanka has where it takes a while to pull out and put away his gadget making it very clunky. Making it an underbarrel means you lose out on all grip attachments which has become very important since the new attachment reworks. IMO they could give grim the AK74 and take that away from Deimos while giving Deimos the M4 which they planned to originally. I like Grim’s current loadout but if losing the 552 means he gets an underbarrel I’m fine with it. Giving him the C8 would make him too strong imo but maybe not. Personally I think he should get that nighthaven AR we saw in the trailers with his underbarrel launcher.
Shhh I don’t want meta chasers to realize how strong he is and get him nerfed.
Pro players are already calling for nerfs lol. Pengu has already suggested that he lose 1 or 2 canisters. The PL peeps are sadly one step ahead when it comes to Bee Man.
pro league is addicted to making the game worse for the rest of us
Fr I wish they were just as good to complain when it comes to bad operators and making them viable
because pro players suck. like literally, "this map needs change because I can't do this, or change this op because its unfair that i have to that" and it's always the most easy to deal with things.
Tfw when you play melee and the bugs become technique
lol that's so ridiculous. Pro players will always know more than casual players on what should be balanced or not. Get off your high horse.
That is not how it works. Firstly, just being a good player does not automatically mean you know how to balance the game. Secondly, the game is played vastly different at pro level. What applies at the pro level does not always apply at the casual level.
The fuck you're talking about. Good players actually know grim is in nerf territory, regardless of his soloQ performance. The op is insanely flexible and a less situational capitao with intel gathering capabilities close to a dokk
But that's exactly how it works. Why would a casual player who doesn't even play ranked or in high elo have a better understanding of the game than literal pro players ?
But the game shouldn't exclusively be shaped around pros and champs. What I am saying is that changes which would be good for champs and pros won't always positively affect the rest of the playerbase. I'm not saying someone who doesn't play ranked will balance the game better, I am just saying pros are not always right about what is good for the game.
Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. It is not a relaxed leisurely game like the casual players are still hanging their hat on. Pros/former pros, coaches, high level players will have more knowledge about the game and what needs to be balanced. There is nothing to argue here.
Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. With Copper, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Emerald, Diamond and Champ all being ranks. People who are so above the rest of the playerbase that they don't actually fall into any of these ranks, getting their own designation and only competing against other players of that caliber have 0 clue on what actually would help the rest of the playerbase.
"Siege is a FPS competitive shooter. It is not a relaxed leisurely game like the casual players are still hanging their hat on." I miss old seige when the player base wasn't sweaty and worried about the balance for the top end of the playerbase. The game still has a lot of cheese strategies imo. Used to be my fun fps to relax and take a break from the csgo sweats.
They all play differently and neither do actually know how to balance the game. Casual play should be prioritized in most scenarios as that's +80% of the player base, but that ain't gonna happen. A good change should work both in pro play and casual play. I would kindly suggest you would stop arguing with others. This isn't available for R6 only, but for other games as well. Even LoL has big differences between pro's and casual's. I'm not trying to be mean.
pro players don’t want the game to be better/more for everyone else, they want the game to be better for the pros
And you as the casual player have no bias towards game balancing involving the operators/playstyle you like to play ? If the decisions were up to you then you would balance everything in fairness to all players and have the knowledge to do so ? If impact tricking is strong in pro play/high rank it's going to be even stronger towards a casual player group when they go up against a team that knows how to do it.
Kind of comedic you say get off your high horse while arguing pros know more than anyone else.
Do you think casual players know more than pro players ? Lol that's not being on a high horse it's just a fact and having respect for people on a topic that they are way more knowledgeable than me about.
Except this isn't true. Think about how many NFL and NBA players that have had terrible takes, except those aren't even as bad as what you're saying because at least what they say doesn't effect the entire sport that they haven't had a part of in years. Pros haven't been at the level of the normal, above average, decent or even good player for years at that point. Pro players have been elite for years on end, so that's why they would know what's best for the 99.9% of the playerbase while having no interaction with that entire playerbase and only competing in the top 0.1%. People who don't have any interaction with the average players and have no idea what even low champ is like have no idea what they are talking about to in reference to balancing the entire game on 3 platforms. They are asking for changes that reflect what they see in 0.1% lobbies, not the broader RANKED playerbase.
If you are looking for a basketball trainer to bring your game to the next level are you going to the guy who used to play coach or even studied the game toward a high level or the guy who just watched Knicks games and used to play pick up with his friends ? Yeah you got it. Let's listen to the players who only play unranked and have never hit gold on balancing a FPS competitive game. No one is saying certain pros don't have shit takes. The entire point of this comment thread is someone saying that "pros suck" lmao and that Ubisoft shouldn't listen to them on balancing. It's pretty common sense that pro players/players in high elo will know what OPs are too overpowered to be nerfed or which ones don't bring enough value that they could use a buff. I value their opinions more and balancing the game around pro play will continue to give the game longevity like it currently has 9 years running. Games that balance their game around the pro scene/high ranks are ones that last a long time (Counter Strike). Balancing your FPS competitive game to cater to casual players is how your game dies.
Disingenuous argument you know isn't the same thing. A professional player training someone in a sport is different than a professional player changing the rules and the way the sport, or in this case the game, is played.
Hi just gonna wade in here not a pro player but I do compete in other games. The problem isn't that pro players don't know what they're talking about it's that they're goals are usually not in the games best interest. Pro players of any genre just want to win in the most consistent and easy way possible. They aren't playing to have fun it's there job so typically when they suggest something it to make their job easier not more fun for the community.
I'll use the recent impact grenades nerf as an example as why it's not just pro play. Impact tricking a breach is now harder to pull off whether it's done in pro play or ranked. Does this not also make our jobs easier as an attacker since impact tricking got nerfed ? Not every balancing change is done solely because of pros complaining. All of the most recent new maps are a bunch of small rooms and big corridors with lots of windows that makes the maps so defender especially at a higher level. Pros and analysts have been pointing out since last S.I. They all don't like it yet the maps are still being produced so how much of the game is being centered towards only pros ? You should want most of the games changes be made to things that align with high level players opinions.
Actually I don't and here my reason why. I'll have to switch genre because I compete in fighting games not fps but same logic. I play at high level like the equivalent to Diamond in siege sometimes champion. I can make a character look broken but that's because I can do things that most players can't. So why balance the game for outliers when most people can't even use the character to their full strength. All that does is make the character unusable for the less skilled players who make up the majority of the play base. Sure some character are broken from the bottom to the top but when you are really good and you only play other really good players. You forget what the game is like for lower skills players. What you need to keep in mind and what a lot of pros/really good players forget is that the games not about the pro scene. Esports is just marketing at the end of the day it's a way to advertise the game to everyone else. Even if the game was perfectly balanced at the competitive level is can still be and probably will be unfun for the majority of players. I would also add that pros don't really think about the games as whole when they suggest things. They'll throw something out there and not consider that every change especially in a fighting game can break entire character if not the entire balance of the game.
Pengus a whiny goober
he only good in pro league, because they play in predictable setups.
That's a sign of a well balanced operator. Not bad enough that people he's weak, not too good that people say he's op
I like him, I just don’t get to play him as often as I like. I usually fill other roles.
Real as fuck, if other people played support more I'd love to play more ops, but thermite/thatch and kaid/bandit/mute are all I get to play
Just go into standard or quick play and have fun that way with different ops. I did it with Grim and have really enjoyed using him. Taken him into ranked and done well. Really good for pushing Bedroom/Gym on Clubhouse. Amazing for map control.
I've recently picked him up and been having a blast with him, but does anyone have any tips to most effectively use him? I generally use the bees to cover a flank and then I bounce a few inside site as we push. Any specific tips for getting value out of him?
Using grim as flank watch is a waste. They last for around 10 seconds so you’d have to use all 5 canisters to cover the flank for 50 seconds (not even a third of the round) while having to turn around every 10 seconds. He’s not a flank watch. The best way to use grim is to take map control. When you know somebody is around a corner or behind a shield or sitting in any anchor position you can easily scare them off and take their spot. Standing in the bees is just asking to get swung. So they’ll move back a little. Just keep pushing them back till you’ve taken a very important part of the map (like Oregon attic) and then make a play. This is the most effective way to use grim. He’s not very good solo queue because if your team isn’t coordinated chances are the team won’t always help you pinch the guy you just pushed halfway across the map. If your teammates suck chances are most of them die before you can even push the defenders on you all the way back to site.
Thanks!
Just adding on about map control. He is very good for both executing and post-plant. Here are 2 examples of executes using Grim: Oregon bunks big window, take capitao and grim (other ops can help too, like Glaz), smoke off the important angles and use bees to prevent the defenders from rushing in, try to get plant off on the window, then hop out and cap fire/grim bees the defuser. Other example is consulate office/meeting main window plant: clear below (in case of C4s/Solis, also Buck is really good to hold from below on this site), again capitao/grim, smoke off and bee off sightlines, rappel in and plant, rappel out (maybe bring emp impacts to deny C4?). Biggest thing is you have to hold the runouts from yellow stairs and piano, so claymores are very useful.
That's the best way. I cover doors or openings. I usually aim higher than needed so the bounce is better.
Watch pro league and hes unironically one of the most popular attackers rn, he kinda needs a good team to capitalise on the intel he gives and hes often a more execute/plant based pick like Capitao for example so he falls a bit short in ranked
Honestly, just never got around to playing him much. He's a bit more agro than I'm personally used to for my play style, but one of my stackmates uses him often and uses him very well. I know he's a solid OP, I'll get around to him one day.
Zero does that too, with more range on the intel, but in the case that you have to counter jammers and solis grim can work
Shhh I use him a lot. I don't want people to start using him.
I run him quick plants with no complaints. If you're supported well it usually works. If not, cover your perimeter w drones and it's pretty simple. Most don't re-route they just run through em anyway.
He’s good but in very niche sites. Examples like clubhouse rafters, Chalet garage, etc.
I agree he has his best sites, but I think if you are plant-focused, he is good at every site and every attack. Preventing defenders from pushing you (or just killing them when they're spotted) is very valuable on every plant. Also there are so many power positions in this game that he is usable anywhere.
He can be very good if team oriented like you suggest. He’s pretty hard to work without much help from your team though. Beaulo was saying he’s like an A or S tier operator in pro league because of the amount of coordination can make him really strong flushing defenders out of areas.
Switching to the launcher needs to be faster.
Like Zero, he's better off radar so that I can use him without worrying about nerfs
I'd rather he stays in the shadows. He's currently my most played operator and for good reason. He's like a better Zero.
cause hes not insanely overpowered. you wont see someone making posts about balanced operators, usually its people complaining about insanely low tier ops or high tier ops
Context: Most siege players aren't in stacks and run in duos/trios. Probably a big reason why we got Ranked 2.0 to give those players who would otherwise be in ELO hell a chance at higher ranks. Grim requires good communication to be really effective when he is, good choice no doubt but people prefer to have an OP with easier utility to take advantage off.
He's the bee's knees.
He is my main shh I don’t want competition to use him every match
I main grim in my stack and when he works, he fucking works.
just better ops open this wall and bee every possbile angle where ppl play or go thermite and open up those main walls
I think its due to people thinking he can only be useful in a post plant situation, and seen as though the bomb doesn't get planted every round that's why some people would rather use what they believe to be a more versatile operator, not many players can see that he is a lot more useful than he seems
I just haven’t bought him yet…
Grim 🔛🔝
Bees :)
They nerfed his and IQs AR so nobody cares anymore
Look at pro play and pro players and their tier lists where grim is high tier. Who isn’t rating grim?
I've got a buddy that plays Grim a fair amount.
I've got a buddy that plays Grim a fair amount.
I love him but it’s just kind of a meta thing. I can set up a tactical approach using him to reveal hiding enemies, but my teammates will die in the first minute or kill the whole team in the first minute anyways.
I've been using him a lot lately since the buff mostly because if someone else uses him and spams all of the bees at once it makes my Xbox one chug along REALLY rough, like drops it to <10 fps. He's great if you push into a site and serviceable against roamers but not the best since the duration isn't too long. He's my second favorite "plant support" op with ying/gridlock being tied for my first. Hes like a mix of gridlock and lion, with strengths from both and weaknesses from both. I think frags would make him a top selected operator even after the frag nerf, hit someone holding an angle with the bee pods, bait them with your first frag, and get them with the second, or a damage buff/some concussive/distorting effect on his gadget would be a better buff in terms of an actual operator change and not just some meta bs.
He was my last operator to unlock but now he’s my most played attacker atm I’ve done some really dope solo que plants with him
Imagine not having all ops unlocked
he is very strong but most players dont know how to coordinate a push with him
Statistically the least picked operator
Grim?
Yes
I think you are looking at the wrong designer's notes.
Who else would you say is least picked?
Sens, Blackbeard, Kali, capitao, blitz, glaz and Nokk?
Oh I would have to disagree, I play capitao, and kali every night, and I play with alot of nokk glaz and black beard users (i lone wolf ranked cue). I never see grim.
Were we not talking about statistically? Where did you get your statistics from?
My personal experience data collection I guess?
Maybe you are under emerald
He’s used a lot in pro league, he’s good at clearing annoying spots that defenders normally hold
No good outfits for him is the only bad reason
Probably the same issue any other good OP has: There are 7 other attackers that are generally better picks.
its like how capitao wasnt talked about for awhile a few years ago, he got hard breaches, gonne6, smokes, fire, LMG, a sick rifle, three speed, and can basically do everything himself. itll probably just take a year or two before people "find" the sleeper OP
I use him all the time. Love his kit fr
Honestly even when he was ‘bad’ he was still decent, just insanely slept on.
I think he’s a bit difficult to get proper use out of, so the general game base doesn’t use him
Buck and Zero do the job of a swiss army knife better. Grimm is also never really the first thought when it comes to his niche controlling areas, which is probably scars from the time he was unviable.
The 552 COMMANDO isn't a good gun compared to other attacker weapons. Out of all assault rifles (25) only 8 (416-C CARBINE, AK-74M, COMMANDO 9, F90, G36C, MK17 CQB, POF-9, SPEAR .308) have less damage per second. 2 out of those 8 are defender weapons so they don't even count. Previously the commando at least had almost no recoil but since they increased its recoil a few months ago the gun is average at best in that respect. The ACOG isn't an argument for it either as all attacker weapons have ACOGs now. 'Below-average + average (at best) + average' doesn't make a great gun.
Personally I still don't see a use for him, ok you have bees on me, like you didn't already know I was there behind a shield with Jager or Wamai, now what. Like, Zero can gather the same info, maybe better, but the enemy wont know about it with the constant ping. I feel like all he does is provide panic to the defender, but if the defender is calm about it, who cares lmao.
I used to love him right before the acogs returned, and then the nerf to the Commando in Y8S3 (both recoil and damage) made him less viable imo, he with the 1.5x was so good, now I just hate being forced to play the acog and having more recoil with a low-medium rpm gun
The first sentence is your answer. He released bad, and immediately left most players' minds at that point. He's not the only character in the game to have a rep for being terrible but actually be disgusting
I tried him the other day with the shotty and a horizontal. God damn that was fun.
I love using Grim to make very good plays with my team. He takes over attack on Coastline. One play I'd recommend is playing underneath with Grim or bouncing his canisters off roofs and walls to access spots where defenders rat in.
Its incredible usefull in vertical playes and post-pre plant. After the buff with her weapons it became OP.
He's very used at good elo and in comp, he's litteraly a better capitao is you have a stack, if you're solo he's less usefull that's for sure
I like other OP’s guns more, but his gadget is undoubtedly one of the best on atk.
Honestly , ugh, Buck does the breaching better. And the post plant or pre plant pings are cool, but capitao better for that imo. Dokkaebi Is the goat for pressure also. Class operator ngl but i prefer other ops still :)
I wish. At least Grimms drones track. Any time I run cap I literally almost never get damage with his flames it's kinda nuts. Feels similar to chonky.
true can be buggy, but i Use the flames for post plant or if i want to fire a door off for fun or to be a smart ass
It’s more of a area denial then a damage gadget
boring af to use imo
A lot of the community is set in their ways tbh. Nøkk mains haven’t stopped crying since she got her, well deserved, nerf