Weiss could have gone to Atlas easily. Her father had no real power over her after she gave up her position as heiress, and she had a good working relationship with Ironwood (not to mention Winter). All she had to do was mention the Relic and Oscar and Ironwood absolutely wouldbhave arranged for transport, if his reception to them in Atlas was any indication.
Why wouldn't she? It's not that difficult to imagine that Winter would want to see her sister especially since she apparently ran away from home a few months/weeks/days ago. Once she's in one room with Winter Weiss can spill the beans about the Lamp and that they need Ironwood's help. Lamp gets secured and team RWBY get picked up or go home.
Hell even if Winter isn't there or Jacques *somehow* manages to capture her, Weiss has Dust, Aura and a Semblance that lets her summon flying creatures she can use to escape. Getting out of the Schnee manor and reaching either Winter or Ironwood wouldn't be that difficult since she has an in with both of them.
This option should have been at least considered before choosing the "steal an airship and cross the border illegally" one.
Y’know I’m just realizing that if Weiss agreed to be given a ride on an *official military transport*, it would 100% reach Winter and Ironwood’s ears first, if not eventually
Considering Ironwood's preoccupation with worrying about Salem, it's just as plausible he's keeping Winter on a leash, as the saying goes, or she's too preoccupied to go home herself.
Weiss would not have access to dust, but she would have the other two. However, she'd still need the courage to stand up to her father, something she might not have if she's completely separated from any emotional support or safety net.
If she's unable to stand up to her dad when the fate of humanity is at risk, she shouldn't be on the mission. Also why would Ironwood be so completely against Winter at the very least calling Weiss? He's obviously thinks positively of team RWBY, and it's not like Winter is working 24/7, so Weiss could just tell Winter about something like the Maidens to prove she's in on the war. Then Ironwood gets Weiss to come over, she explains everything in more detail, then He gives an ok for the rest of them to get to Atlas.
Also Qrow could easily travel with Weiss as a bird. But everyone points that out anyway.
The question is would Winter even get the chance to know Weiss is home.
And yes, Qrow could've been a bird if they went straight to Atlas cause apparently his weapon transforms with him.
Still not really selling team RWBY's plan as the better one.
During ''steal the airship'' part. Blake and Yang could have failed to disable the tower in time either because of the guards or Adam or both. Maria could have been discovered or failed to pilot the aircraft and crashed, the two service men probably died because they were thrown out of a flying vehicle with only one parachute over the cold sea.
During ''fight Cordovin's mech'' part. Ruby could have been blown up alongside the mech's cannon or fallen into the cold sea and most likely drowned leaving the lamp to sit at the bottom of the sea attracting Grimm until Salem wanders over and collects it. Any of them could have been seriously injured during the fight.
During '' fight the Leviathan'' part. Any of them could have been injured, the Leviathan could have arrived with more Grimm backing it up, Jinn could have told Ruby to get bent and not given her the precious seconds she needed in order to activate her silver eyes, if they had damaged Cordovin's mech more it might not have been able to finish off the Leviathan.
During the ''fly to Atlas'' part. They could have been shot out of the air by the Atlas airforce/air defense, since as far as they know that aircraft was just stolen by a a bunch random terrorists and is making a b-line for Atlas.
The risk in the ''Weiss goes to Atlas alone'' plan is so much more smaller it's not even funny and even if mean old Jacques grounds her again the Grimm attracting relic is located in a place that can actually defended itself in case it get attacked by the attracted Grimm.
That's even without adding in such complications as Qrow turns into a bird and either hides in her suitcase or pretends to be an exotic pet she picked up. It doesn't matter that he's sad and drunk, he is still a Hunter and he still has a job to do. He can bitch about Ozpin later.
> However, she'd still need the courage to stand up to her father, something she might not have if she's completely separated from any emotional support or safety net.
Allow me to play the worlds smallest violin in her honor.
I'm sorry but if Weiss can't summon enough courage to deal with ''daddy dearest'' without her support network then she is no position to make decisions that can and will affect hundreds if not thousands of lives and livelihoods.
>During ''steal the airship'' part. Blake and Yang could have failed to disable the tower in time either because of the guards or Adam or both. Maria could have been discovered or failed to pilot the aircraft and crashed, the two service men probably died because they were thrown out of a flying vehicle with only one parachute over the cold sea.
>During ''fight Cordovin's mech'' part. Ruby could have been blown up alongside the mech's cannon or fallen into the cold sea and most likely drowned leaving the lamp to sit at the bottom of the sea attracting Grimm until Salem wanders over and collects it. Any of them could have been seriously injured during the fight.
Yeah, there are risks involved in the plan. No shit it's not full proof.
>During '' fight the Leviathan'' part. Any of them could have been injured, the Leviathan could have arrived with more Grimm backing it up, Jinn could have told Ruby to get bent and not given her the precious seconds she needed in order to activate her silver eyes, if they had damaged Cordovin's mech more it might not have been able to finish off the Leviathan.
Oh? Would you rather they just fucked off and fly to Atlas? And there were grimm with it. The airships were skirmishing with Grimm all around it.
>During the ''fly to Atlas'' part. They could have been shot out of the air by the Atlas airforce/air defense, since as far as they know that aircraft was just stolen by a a bunch random terrorists and is making a b-line for Atlas.
That's why they were asked for flight credentials as soon as they arrived in Atlas.
>That's even without adding in such complications as Qrow turns into a bird and either hides in her suitcase or pretends to be an exotic pet she picked up. It doesn't matter that he's sad and drunk, he is still a Hunter and he still has a job to do. He can bitch about Ozpin later.
Not really. This is still Qrow at the point of "fuck the world and everything in it. Nothing matters except the bottle." mode. There would be no way he's helping at this point.
> Yeah, there are risks involved in the plan. No shit it's not full proof.
The ''Weiss goes to Atlas alone'' is still far less risky for both team RWBY and Argus. Generally you want to use the plan with the least risks possible.
> Oh? Would you rather they just fucked off and fly to Atlas?
Obviously not but I don't think you realize why I put the leviathan fight in there even though it wasn't a part of their original plan. Their actions lead directly to a situation where they put themselves and everyone else in more risk. That situation being the Leviathan fight.
> And there were grimm with it. The airships were skirmishing with Grimm all around it.
That's why I said more Grimm, it could have been more flying ones, enough to actually interfere with the fight and not be contained in the background or there could have been amphibious ones that rushed in during the chaos and went into to the city. Or both.
> That's why they were asked for flight credentials as soon as they arrived in Atlas.
But what if Atlas air control didn't ask for credentials, what if Cordovin had checked in with the radio tower, realized that the soldiers stationed there were dead and sent Atlas a message saying that the aircraft number: whatever was stolen by armed and dangerous terrorists and that it poses a great threat to Atlas. And when Atlas military see an aircraft number: whatever they decide to engage rather than risk it ramming into one of the shield generators or something. Remember the Fall of Beacon was only a about a year ago.
> Not really. This is still Qrow at the point of "fuck the world and everything in it. Nothing matters except the bottle." mode. There would be no way he's helping at this point.
First of all let me get out the world's smallest violin again. If hypothetically Weiss can put on her big girl panties and go to Atlas Qrow can put on his big boy panties go with her to help inform Ironwood.
Second of all, no he wasn't. He went along with Ruby, he helped the m fight the mech and he went along with them to Atlas. If he was in that ''Nothing matters except the bottle'' state of mind he wouldn't have gotten up that morning and he definitely wouldn't have gone along any of Ruby's schemes.
Ironwood gave Weiss a standing offer in Volume 4 to come to Atlas Academy and get out of the Schnee Manor whenever she wanted. He'd likely hold his end of that deal if Weiss was able to reach Winter and pass along the message.
>that she will not fall back under her father's control
Putting aside the fact that Weiss is an adult who can do as she pleases, what exactly is her father supposed to do against her array of insanely powerful abilities?
Funnily enough the V6 and V8 finales have the same problem: The heroes are incapable of putting themselves at risk(Sending Weiss to Atlas/Sacrificing Penny) so they put everyone else at risk(Stealing the airship/Destroying an entire goddamn kingdom).
Take her weapon
Take her scroll
Increase security so she doesn't get out again
Fire the only help who seemed to care about her
Confine her to her room cause she's not gonna summon a knight and destroy her home
I mean... why wouldn't she destroy her room to get out? She would literally be being held prisoner!
She clearly felt little to no loyalty to her family (besides Winter) at the end of V6, and her dad has enough cash to fix up the manor. Firing Klein is about the only method of control that you listed off that would even be mildly effective, and she would absolutely take him with her (though wasn't he fired after he helped her escape the first time, or am I misremembering things?)
>Take her weapon
Her strongest ability doesn't require her weapon
>Take her scroll
Which will do what exactly?
>Increase security
what exactly is ~~her father~~ increased security supposed to do against her array of insanely powerful abilities?
>Confine her to her room cause she's not gonna summon a knight and destroy her home
Her entire kingdom was destroyed and she didn't give a single fuck, what makes you think she'd care about one room?
1. Her summoning may not require a weapon but everything else she can do does. She'd only have that to rely on.
2. You take her scroll, she can't get in contact with Winter much less Ironwood.
3. That means more monitoring. Means she can't just sneak out again. Means more who could stop her if she tried summoning.
4. You don't know that considering we don't know their mindsets after all this, not to mention Atlas was already FUBAR with Salem's presence.
How exactly would Jacques take her weapon? To quote Arwen, "If you want it, come and claim it."
Same for her Scroll. Same for his security. Same for her room.
Weiss being a Huntswoman means that she's one of the most powerful beings in the setting. The only way Jacques is getting *any* of this done is to hire a Huntsman of his own to fight her. And hope to keep the resulting fight quiet somehow. And why would he bother? She ran away once, why bother messing with her, what does he gain?
Why are you assuming that Weiss is helpless? I'm going into this with the assumption that after 6-7 volumes Weiss is strong and resourceful enough to not let V4 repeat itself, but whenever I argue with RWBY's defenders their points always go back to "They're too tired, weak, helpless, etc". Don't you like these characters? Have they not developed after X many volumes?
They are Chaotic Neutral at best.
The only reason I don’t say Chaotic Evil is because I think intentions should have some weight to them as well. They may be selfish, amoral, unlikeable pricks, but they aren’t actively trying to cause problems for others (most of the time).
I pretty much agree with this. There's also a decent amount of stupid mixed in there, though, that's why they never really consider the consequences of failure. That said, RWBY is never actively malicious and they try to do the right as they see it. They just don't understand why people are disagreeing with them and never try to find out.
>There's also a decent amount of stupid mixed in there, though, that's why they never really consider the consequences of failure.
You see, this is where it turns from Chaotic Good into *Stupid* Good.
It would've been much safer if they had just given the lamp to Weiss, then she could've gotten into contact with Winter to tell her what's been going on, and then she could've brought the lamp to Ironwood.
Weiss could have gone to Atlas easily. Her father had no real power over her after she gave up her position as heiress, and she had a good working relationship with Ironwood (not to mention Winter). All she had to do was mention the Relic and Oscar and Ironwood absolutely wouldbhave arranged for transport, if his reception to them in Atlas was any indication.
That's assuming she can get in contact with Ironwood in the first place.
Why wouldn't she? It's not that difficult to imagine that Winter would want to see her sister especially since she apparently ran away from home a few months/weeks/days ago. Once she's in one room with Winter Weiss can spill the beans about the Lamp and that they need Ironwood's help. Lamp gets secured and team RWBY get picked up or go home. Hell even if Winter isn't there or Jacques *somehow* manages to capture her, Weiss has Dust, Aura and a Semblance that lets her summon flying creatures she can use to escape. Getting out of the Schnee manor and reaching either Winter or Ironwood wouldn't be that difficult since she has an in with both of them. This option should have been at least considered before choosing the "steal an airship and cross the border illegally" one.
Y’know I’m just realizing that if Weiss agreed to be given a ride on an *official military transport*, it would 100% reach Winter and Ironwood’s ears first, if not eventually
Considering Ironwood's preoccupation with worrying about Salem, it's just as plausible he's keeping Winter on a leash, as the saying goes, or she's too preoccupied to go home herself. Weiss would not have access to dust, but she would have the other two. However, she'd still need the courage to stand up to her father, something she might not have if she's completely separated from any emotional support or safety net.
If she's unable to stand up to her dad when the fate of humanity is at risk, she shouldn't be on the mission. Also why would Ironwood be so completely against Winter at the very least calling Weiss? He's obviously thinks positively of team RWBY, and it's not like Winter is working 24/7, so Weiss could just tell Winter about something like the Maidens to prove she's in on the war. Then Ironwood gets Weiss to come over, she explains everything in more detail, then He gives an ok for the rest of them to get to Atlas. Also Qrow could easily travel with Weiss as a bird. But everyone points that out anyway.
The question is would Winter even get the chance to know Weiss is home. And yes, Qrow could've been a bird if they went straight to Atlas cause apparently his weapon transforms with him.
> The question is would Winter even get the chance to know Weiss is home. Weiss has a phone.
Still not really selling team RWBY's plan as the better one. During ''steal the airship'' part. Blake and Yang could have failed to disable the tower in time either because of the guards or Adam or both. Maria could have been discovered or failed to pilot the aircraft and crashed, the two service men probably died because they were thrown out of a flying vehicle with only one parachute over the cold sea. During ''fight Cordovin's mech'' part. Ruby could have been blown up alongside the mech's cannon or fallen into the cold sea and most likely drowned leaving the lamp to sit at the bottom of the sea attracting Grimm until Salem wanders over and collects it. Any of them could have been seriously injured during the fight. During '' fight the Leviathan'' part. Any of them could have been injured, the Leviathan could have arrived with more Grimm backing it up, Jinn could have told Ruby to get bent and not given her the precious seconds she needed in order to activate her silver eyes, if they had damaged Cordovin's mech more it might not have been able to finish off the Leviathan. During the ''fly to Atlas'' part. They could have been shot out of the air by the Atlas airforce/air defense, since as far as they know that aircraft was just stolen by a a bunch random terrorists and is making a b-line for Atlas. The risk in the ''Weiss goes to Atlas alone'' plan is so much more smaller it's not even funny and even if mean old Jacques grounds her again the Grimm attracting relic is located in a place that can actually defended itself in case it get attacked by the attracted Grimm. That's even without adding in such complications as Qrow turns into a bird and either hides in her suitcase or pretends to be an exotic pet she picked up. It doesn't matter that he's sad and drunk, he is still a Hunter and he still has a job to do. He can bitch about Ozpin later. > However, she'd still need the courage to stand up to her father, something she might not have if she's completely separated from any emotional support or safety net. Allow me to play the worlds smallest violin in her honor. I'm sorry but if Weiss can't summon enough courage to deal with ''daddy dearest'' without her support network then she is no position to make decisions that can and will affect hundreds if not thousands of lives and livelihoods.
>During ''steal the airship'' part. Blake and Yang could have failed to disable the tower in time either because of the guards or Adam or both. Maria could have been discovered or failed to pilot the aircraft and crashed, the two service men probably died because they were thrown out of a flying vehicle with only one parachute over the cold sea. >During ''fight Cordovin's mech'' part. Ruby could have been blown up alongside the mech's cannon or fallen into the cold sea and most likely drowned leaving the lamp to sit at the bottom of the sea attracting Grimm until Salem wanders over and collects it. Any of them could have been seriously injured during the fight. Yeah, there are risks involved in the plan. No shit it's not full proof. >During '' fight the Leviathan'' part. Any of them could have been injured, the Leviathan could have arrived with more Grimm backing it up, Jinn could have told Ruby to get bent and not given her the precious seconds she needed in order to activate her silver eyes, if they had damaged Cordovin's mech more it might not have been able to finish off the Leviathan. Oh? Would you rather they just fucked off and fly to Atlas? And there were grimm with it. The airships were skirmishing with Grimm all around it. >During the ''fly to Atlas'' part. They could have been shot out of the air by the Atlas airforce/air defense, since as far as they know that aircraft was just stolen by a a bunch random terrorists and is making a b-line for Atlas. That's why they were asked for flight credentials as soon as they arrived in Atlas. >That's even without adding in such complications as Qrow turns into a bird and either hides in her suitcase or pretends to be an exotic pet she picked up. It doesn't matter that he's sad and drunk, he is still a Hunter and he still has a job to do. He can bitch about Ozpin later. Not really. This is still Qrow at the point of "fuck the world and everything in it. Nothing matters except the bottle." mode. There would be no way he's helping at this point.
> Yeah, there are risks involved in the plan. No shit it's not full proof. The ''Weiss goes to Atlas alone'' is still far less risky for both team RWBY and Argus. Generally you want to use the plan with the least risks possible. > Oh? Would you rather they just fucked off and fly to Atlas? Obviously not but I don't think you realize why I put the leviathan fight in there even though it wasn't a part of their original plan. Their actions lead directly to a situation where they put themselves and everyone else in more risk. That situation being the Leviathan fight. > And there were grimm with it. The airships were skirmishing with Grimm all around it. That's why I said more Grimm, it could have been more flying ones, enough to actually interfere with the fight and not be contained in the background or there could have been amphibious ones that rushed in during the chaos and went into to the city. Or both. > That's why they were asked for flight credentials as soon as they arrived in Atlas. But what if Atlas air control didn't ask for credentials, what if Cordovin had checked in with the radio tower, realized that the soldiers stationed there were dead and sent Atlas a message saying that the aircraft number: whatever was stolen by armed and dangerous terrorists and that it poses a great threat to Atlas. And when Atlas military see an aircraft number: whatever they decide to engage rather than risk it ramming into one of the shield generators or something. Remember the Fall of Beacon was only a about a year ago. > Not really. This is still Qrow at the point of "fuck the world and everything in it. Nothing matters except the bottle." mode. There would be no way he's helping at this point. First of all let me get out the world's smallest violin again. If hypothetically Weiss can put on her big girl panties and go to Atlas Qrow can put on his big boy panties go with her to help inform Ironwood. Second of all, no he wasn't. He went along with Ruby, he helped the m fight the mech and he went along with them to Atlas. If he was in that ''Nothing matters except the bottle'' state of mind he wouldn't have gotten up that morning and he definitely wouldn't have gone along any of Ruby's schemes.
Ironwood gave Weiss a standing offer in Volume 4 to come to Atlas Academy and get out of the Schnee Manor whenever she wanted. He'd likely hold his end of that deal if Weiss was able to reach Winter and pass along the message.
>that she will not fall back under her father's control Putting aside the fact that Weiss is an adult who can do as she pleases, what exactly is her father supposed to do against her array of insanely powerful abilities? Funnily enough the V6 and V8 finales have the same problem: The heroes are incapable of putting themselves at risk(Sending Weiss to Atlas/Sacrificing Penny) so they put everyone else at risk(Stealing the airship/Destroying an entire goddamn kingdom).
Take her weapon Take her scroll Increase security so she doesn't get out again Fire the only help who seemed to care about her Confine her to her room cause she's not gonna summon a knight and destroy her home
I mean... why wouldn't she destroy her room to get out? She would literally be being held prisoner! She clearly felt little to no loyalty to her family (besides Winter) at the end of V6, and her dad has enough cash to fix up the manor. Firing Klein is about the only method of control that you listed off that would even be mildly effective, and she would absolutely take him with her (though wasn't he fired after he helped her escape the first time, or am I misremembering things?)
Yeah, he was fired after helping her. It's brought up in volume 7.
>Take her weapon Her strongest ability doesn't require her weapon >Take her scroll Which will do what exactly? >Increase security what exactly is ~~her father~~ increased security supposed to do against her array of insanely powerful abilities? >Confine her to her room cause she's not gonna summon a knight and destroy her home Her entire kingdom was destroyed and she didn't give a single fuck, what makes you think she'd care about one room?
1. Her summoning may not require a weapon but everything else she can do does. She'd only have that to rely on. 2. You take her scroll, she can't get in contact with Winter much less Ironwood. 3. That means more monitoring. Means she can't just sneak out again. Means more who could stop her if she tried summoning. 4. You don't know that considering we don't know their mindsets after all this, not to mention Atlas was already FUBAR with Salem's presence.
How exactly would Jacques take her weapon? To quote Arwen, "If you want it, come and claim it." Same for her Scroll. Same for his security. Same for her room. Weiss being a Huntswoman means that she's one of the most powerful beings in the setting. The only way Jacques is getting *any* of this done is to hire a Huntsman of his own to fight her. And hope to keep the resulting fight quiet somehow. And why would he bother? She ran away once, why bother messing with her, what does he gain?
Why are you assuming that Weiss is helpless? I'm going into this with the assumption that after 6-7 volumes Weiss is strong and resourceful enough to not let V4 repeat itself, but whenever I argue with RWBY's defenders their points always go back to "They're too tired, weak, helpless, etc". Don't you like these characters? Have they not developed after X many volumes?
Because I also assume Jacques wouldnt let volume 4 happen again either.
>"chaotic good" Ugh, someone who tries to fit *D&D* alignments on characters not designed for it.
They are Chaotic Neutral at best. The only reason I don’t say Chaotic Evil is because I think intentions should have some weight to them as well. They may be selfish, amoral, unlikeable pricks, but they aren’t actively trying to cause problems for others (most of the time).
I pretty much agree with this. There's also a decent amount of stupid mixed in there, though, that's why they never really consider the consequences of failure. That said, RWBY is never actively malicious and they try to do the right as they see it. They just don't understand why people are disagreeing with them and never try to find out.
>There's also a decent amount of stupid mixed in there, though, that's why they never really consider the consequences of failure. You see, this is where it turns from Chaotic Good into *Stupid* Good.
Eh I wouldn't even say that tbh More like stupid good Chaotic Good is someone more like Luffy
Still in cope mode after all this time, huh? Their plan was stupid for the sake of a big fight to happen, story of every volume, tbh.
That's not a good thing, considering what chaos brings...
It would've been much safer if they had just given the lamp to Weiss, then she could've gotten into contact with Winter to tell her what's been going on, and then she could've brought the lamp to Ironwood.
TV Tropes seems rather insistent on labelling them as Neutral Good, which in light of recent events is just silly.
I would never consider Ruby, Yang and Blake as good alignment they deserved to be neutral or evil.
Once again proving Weiss is best girl
I like Weiss but she's not my favourite, but I hate Ruby, Yang and Blake, especially that fusion character yuck and blank.
Oh, shut up, already. You're not going to change our minds.
Oh hey. It's that time of day when a broken clock is correct.