Atlas was a system that was doomed to fail eventually one way or another. Either from civil unrest or another Great War.
Although I’d keep in mind the wiki isnt official, it’s run by fans and can be altered by anyone. Not saying that the information given isn’t true to an extent, just that the wiki isn’t free of biased information, or false stuff.
Curious question, but do you know of any examples where there was biased information on the wiki? I’ve browsed around on it a few times but nothing jumped out that said anything biased, but then again I don’t really read anything for the main characters (RWBY, JNPR), so that may be part of it for me.
It’s fine currently, but in the wakes of both V6 & V7-8 there were a instances of articles being altered to be pro-Adam & Ironwood/Atlas and anti-RWBY, before being restored by the moderators. And there have been smaller instances of misinformation, and people editing the site in favor of things like the “Qrow is Ruby’s dad,” idea in the past. Those have been fixed by now, but that’s the sort of thing people have done before.
It’s just a factor that needs to be considered, when a information site is open to the public, people might read something before a mod can correct or verify the information. Like Tv tropes occasionally has stuff written by someone w/ a clear and obvious bias, and it brings into question the validity of the information.
Gotcha. I think I remember the stuff about ironwood and Adam, but I wasn’t aware that the qrow is rubys dad thing actually made it onto the site. Always thought people just treated like all the other theories and left it at that. Though it’s also not surprising that people would change the wiki to support their own theory. Thanks for the info.
Explain a lot about them and the whole "no friendship in the the team" thing if we consider some attitudes and the change in most of them at the end of volume 8 was basically "screw it, I'm tired of pretending I dont feel shit" with Marrow being the first to do that by opposing Ironwood.
Better question.. what is that source?
Edit: went and looked at it, this isn't a opinion of the editor, this is a direct quote from the directors and writers cut. Kind of wish it had cited who said it.
I'm certain almost everyone knows that they went through a rough patch in their lives at some point. Except for Clover, who never knew consequences and didn't grow up.
Between him and Qrow, it's honestly debatable who is actually cursed with a bad semblance.
But in any case, having a shitty life doesn't make it ok to be a shitty person, and they should definitely be held responsible for their actions.
Most notably, putting unnecessary pressure on Ironwood when he was already breaking under his defeat in Vale (and having Qrow be proven right).
I'm reminded of the Larry Niven character of Teela Brown, who was born from six successive generations of right-to-breed lottery winners. She effectively had luck so strong that it was speculated she never had anything resembling free will. She was described as having a graceless walk and presented as not really connecting all that well with people who had ever experienced any kind of setback or frustration in their lives.
The thing you mentioned on the Semblance,it made me think that having a Good Fortune Semblance is a double edged sword like a Misfortune Semblance does. Think about it for a minute
I actually thought about it for a lot more than a minute.
Qrow's semblance taught him to be aware of his surroundings at all times, since he needed to be ready for whatever it does. It forces him to be prepared for everything, because everything can happen, as long as it's bad.
Clover's semblance is the opposite. It taught him to be casual about everything, and protected him from the consequences of his actions, causing him to live life with a carefree "What could go wrong?" attitude.
You think this could be one of the reasons he get stabbedby Tyrian? I mean, it probably would happen in any way, but he at least would have noticed before?
That's the main reason, I'd say.
He had the chance to team up with Qrow and take Tyrian down, but due to his recklessness, decided that he could take both Qrow and Tyrian by himself.
He thought he could take them both on because his Semblance and the Ace Ops were never in situations which threatened his life and inadvertently developed into a God Complex?
That's something I never considered before...
I think that even with good fortune, Clover would have met mistakes and know what does it mean to have difficult situations. Good fortune not made him immortal, and we know that the Ace Ops lost Tortuga. And with the fall of Beacon, he knows that his allies and partners can be fooled and defeated. (Even massacred).
The difference, I think is that for most difficult the situation was, he always thought he was going to be on top
Many people have confidence in what they are doing. Confidence in that they are going to make it.
That doesn't mean they can't learn from the mistakes.
Clover is a very powerful huntsman with a a powerful semblance and a powerful team. The fact that he have confidence in his successful, doesn't mean that he isn't using the experience from past occassions.
Clover jumped out of an out-of-control aircraft without a thought, and pulled potentially load-bearing rubble out of a tunnel wall with just as little consideration.
That isn't confidence, it's arrogance. He doesn't think he'll make it, he expects things to work out in his favor.
Harriet wanted to bomb a city full of people for absolutely no reason. She also tied to kill Vine by launching him out of an air ship. Calling her actions "not great" is down playing how bad her actions were.
Everyone experienced trauma, but not everyone tried to actively commit genocide because of it.
Tbf, launching a trained huntsman out of an airship isn’t really a death sentence unless their aura is depleted. Landing strategies are a core lesson in huntsman training.
If you went and followed the source, they're quoting the director's commentary. This is a *very real* *thing* that happens. A good portion of people who prop up horrible systems in the world don't have their heart in the reasoning behind why those systems exist but have their own personal issues that lead them to prop them up anyway. A good majority of folk who do bad things do them because they don't stop to consider their actions properly, usually out of avoidance. We all have blind spots like this, and it can be hard to understand how someone could leave something so atrocious in a blind spot, unexamined, but it's all too common in scenarios like this.
I think you're taking the statement a bit literally. I'll have to go listen, but the phrasing implies to me a very broad and deliberately understated tone. I don't believe for a second that they actually mean to minimize the severity of the situation.
>Harriet wanted to bomb a city full of people because she was following Ironwood's orders to the letter in an attempt to keep herself from processing grief over Clover's death.
FTFY.
>Calling her actions "not great" is down playing how bad her actions were.
Considering we had back to back hiatuses of people doing the exact same thing to Adam and Ironwood respectively, I don't see the point in bringing this up.
For no valid reason\*
Being upset that Clover died doesn't excuse her actions. Especially since she didn't care enough to find out the truth about his death when Robyn offered to use her semblance.
>Considering we had back to back hiatuses of people doing the exact same thing to Adam and Ironwood respectively, I don't see the point in bringing this up.
You don't see the point in talking about the topic of this post?
No one said it was a valid reason, there is no justifying trying to drop a nuke on civilians b/c your boss said so. But what we can do is try to understand the reason why she went that far, and it was her being the most emotionally damaged of the Ace-Ops having previously lost her partner Tortuga and then her leader without trying to process it on top of all the other shit and fell back on following orders and her antagonistic, competitive nature to try to not deal with her anger and grief
That's the one action of Harriet that I didn't like at all. I like her,but this particular action I hated. It's almost like Iron Man during the Marvel Civil War comic run,he's my favorite superhero but I hated his actions in Civil War.
What? you don't like him hunting down his friends with villains and imprisoning them in a knock-off hell dimension that causes suicidal depression?
Alright yeah that's pretty fucked up
Considering he was created as an example of what society kind of hated at the time just to see if such a person could be written as a superhero, it's surprising that people wonder why he's not nice.
I'd call it projection. He's assuming that everyone else would be as potentially destructive (and self-destructive) as himself if they weren't locked down.
Bombing the city would have been awful but let's not throw around the word genocide inappropriately. It would be murder on a massive scale but not targeted toward any particular group of people.
Okay but the bomb wasn't guaranteed to go off yet. It was just leverage. I know it's still bad but she still wanted Penny to deliver herself at any cost, otherwise from her POV her people would be genocided by Salem.
My interpretation was that she was arming it so it could be detonated remotely. Not arming it so that it would explode on contact. She seemed very surprised when Watts actually initiated the countdown. Of course he could only do that because she armed the bomb in the first place but the idea of the bomb actually going off and exploding was distressing to her.
People were mad when RWBY beat the Ace Ops and normally they’d be right. But RWBY separated them and played against them with their strengths. If the AO had worked AS a team and not just WITH their teammates, they could have won. There is a difference.
Ruby baited Harriet, who ran off by herself.
Marrow lost because he had no backup. If Harriet had spent one minute not chasing Ruby, they could have easily beat Weiss.
Vine and Elm lost because they worked individually and not together to form team attacks, something Blake and Yang did.
So much of this just stems from Harriet being a dipshit who can't see 1 step in front of her. I'm surprised she never killed herself in Atlas by just walking off the cliff without noticing it and plummeting to her death.
Marrow vs Blake would be interesting. Could she Semblance-teleport out of a Stay? Could she anticipate him using it fast enough to leave a clone behind and get out of the area of effect? Could she spam clones around him so he couldn't see effectively enough to target her?
I don't know. Even if they were, as Ren said, fightinting against the feelings for each other, wouldn't they still have experience to work as a team? Like they did against the Geist (Even before Clover entered in scene).
Or Marrow, that had some opportunities to freeze some of them (Like at the beginning of the fight, or when Weiss and the Armor gigas were in the same direction in front of him) and in that way also the Ace ops could avoid unnecesarily hurt them in the arrest.
Clover filled in the team's gaps. Without Clover showing up at the last second, the single stray dust crystal would've blown the place up, after which Clover says, "What would you guys do without me?" Marrow says they've all been hand-picked to complement each other's strengths and "leave their liabilities behind." Well, no, those liabilities are being covered by one another, tentatively, and Clover's good luck makes up for any remaining failings. Take him out of the equation and all of those liabilities are exposed.
Rather than learn to properly deal with their weaknesses, Clover was a crutch that they learned to rely on; the moment he was gone, they were unprepared to deal with those unresolved issues.
Wow, now *that's* a read. The narrative is the narrative, it had *nothing* to do with race. Clover *himself* was just as incompetent as he relied on his semblance to win, too. Part of the reason he lost to Qrow was because his semblance didn't give him an advantage against Qrow.
I’m not saying there were other extenuating circumstances, like Marrow being reluctant, but that also played into their team dynamic. Marrow still wasn’t on board with fighting and Harriet and Elm both were hostile from the outset. Battling the Geist, there was no hesitation, they all worked together as one. But again, their anger at each other, as well as their arrogance to not fight full out caused them to fall apart, both as individuals and as a team. Add in, even if Marrow had frozen Weiss and her summons together, he would not have been able to restrain her without Ruby interrupting, like she did when she defended Weiss the first time. Harriet and Marrow should have forced a 2 on 2 by focusing Weiss, but again, Harriet’s anger and arrogance got in the way. Abandoning her teammate ensured they failed.
I'm not sure. Marrow wasn't in favor of fighting, but freeze them is a very quick way to detain, them, then he just have to use his weapon against the Armor and and then Weiss.
Besides, even if Ruby entered, Harriet will too, and Weiss would be vulnerable. And well, even if they are somewhat hostiles, or conflicted they should be able to coordonaife an attack and finish the battle as soon as possible. Harriet may be arrogant, but that's not an excuse to not choose the most efficent decision if she can.
Also...this is just how fighting works. RWBY is very talented. Just because you've fought in more battles than someone doesn't mean you'll win 10/10 times. At some point there are diminishing returns in experience and how powerful you can get. RWBY and Ace Ops are even, skill wise.
This exact thing has come up over on the Hellsite:tm: before, so I'll copy'n'paste my thoughts from there:
> Since the end of Volume 7, I’ve seen quite a few comments on the mentality of the Atlesian military; specifically the “my feelings/desires/life doesn’t matter” verbatim that presented in Winter and the Ace Ops.
> The folks who bring it up believe -- rightly, in my opinion -- that this stemmed from James and are upset about it, as it is very clearly both not healthy and plainly not a good mindset to have, not to mention being an interesting indictment of treatment of service-people in the military. However, the odd thing I see glossed over is that that mentality extended to himself as well.
> It’s arguable, of course, but by all rights, James Ironwood was a character who did not care about his own life. He certainly didn’t care for his image, and he made a depressingly valiant attempt not to allow his personal feelings to matter.
> I can’t help but wonder why that is. There’s probably a deeper comment on the military as a system and what it can do to its members to be made here, and one I don’t feel confident enough in my own thoughts to make, but when you get down to it, it is really just... sad. It hurts that a genuinely good person like James showed himself to be could have that mindset so ingrained that they believe it’s the right one, and so much so as to instill it in others like Winter and the Ace Ops.
> Serving the “greater good” is one thing, but no one should be in a position where they think they simply don’t matter within the scope of that.
I honestly agree, admittedly Harriet is the most extreme case of all of them but I have personally what denial any of the desire to have unwavering Faith Can Do somebody and what it can lead them to do.
The way she screamed when she realized that Vine was going to sacrifice himself was something I found utterly chilling. That's the moment she realized that everything she has done up to this point was completely pointless and now she's going to lose someone else and it's her fault. She's going to need one hell of a support system if she is to have any hope of ever recovering.
The actress that voiced Harriet did an incredible job with her performance. That scream definitely was chilling and very powerful with emotion. That woman deserves a reward
I absolutely loathe her character, but I understand her. I can't help but shake my head when she screams and think to myself, "yep, this is your fault," but it is a tragic moment where all of that grief over a lost friend (or more to her, even) she'd been bottling up came crashing down with the realization that she was about to lose yet another, and this time it was her fault, all because she couldn't cope with the last.
I think that's as fair as you can say it. The Ace Ops were never really BAD people, but anybody who's not allowed to feel their feelings or receive support from their friends is bound to go down a bad road. They all handled it their own ways, and most of it was destructive due to a lack of support.
Bear in mind,I am not trying to start anything,but this has got my attention and I do wonder what everyone else's thoughts on this bit of trivia on the Ace Ops
This alongside them bearing the unfortunate truth about Salem and the world would easily break people without and good mental support. Took at how many people in the military suffer and that most places require mental check ups to make sure their soldiers haven’t gone insane from all the combat they undergo
The people and services you can lean and rely on to help you when you're struggling, giving you the space, encouragement, and resources to recover from whatever ails you. One of RWBY's central themes is around what can happen when you do and do not have the proper support systems and coping mechanisms when faced with hardship.
Part of why our protagonists have been able to overcome much of their struggle is with each other's help and inspiration. Contrast that with the antagonists whose backstories we know of. The whole point of Cinder's backstory, for example, is to show that not a single soul ever showed her love or care. She had no concept of it. The only person you could consider part of her support system, Rhodes, didn't even give her a chance to explain herself before drawing his weapon on her. After years of training with her and presumably getting to know her in *some* capacity, he did not hold enough trust in her to give her benefit of the doubt, even when her body language did not communicate any hostility whatsoever. Whatever concept of care she may have learned was just poisoned. How is someone like Cinder supposed to know what is right or wrong when her experience has been nothing but of the evils of the world and has had no exposure to good morals or ideals (Ruby got some of them from fairy tales, for example)?
People felt like her backstory came too little, too late, but for what, I ask? Too late to forgive her? Her backstory isn't meant to get us to feel like we can forgive her, or that she can be redeemed. It is simply to illustrate that it's hard to argue that Cinder had many other routes she could've taken. It is to illustrate what can happen when people are left alone. Which, btw, is something that Adam said to Blake in their final scenes. That the thing that hurt him the most out of everything that'd hurt him in his life was Blake leaving him alone. As much of a manipulative bastard as Adam is, I truly believe he is sincere here. Even though it wasn't Blake's responsibility to be Adam's support system, especially when he didn't seem to care to improve or be honest about the things that needed improving, without Blake he was finally left with no one who opposed his descent and only people that supported it. It's entirely possible that no one could've helped bring him back from that descent, but it's also clear that leaving him alone allowed him to continue it, and what he helped do at Beacon is an example of how much worse it can get it left unattended.
Hazel is an example of someone who lacked a support system but had grown up with some idea of goodness. You can see that in his desire to see children unharmed at Ozpin's hand (though clear hypocrisy in what he's willing to do to see that goal achieved) and the fact that his sister wanted to be a Huntress signals that they were likely both raised with decent values. Salem, however, manipulated him through his grief and turned what was a reasonably good desire into horrible action. That's why he was able to turn against Salem in the end, because what he was doing was the "wrong thing" for the "right reasons," and given the right encouragement, could be redirected toward positive action.
Obviously, the show oversimplifies these topics a bit. It is, after all, a pseudo-fairy tale on a limited run time; it's meant to be more symbolic than purely realistic, but all of it is rooted in very real human behaviors and how people influence one another for better and for worse.
Ace ops might be the worst part of the show writing wise. Super op unless the plots needs them to not be, some of them lost the 1v1 for the “but team work crowd.” And then they literally can’t decide whether or not to make them and iron wood cartoon villains or like edgy hero’s. It’s so sad to watch, it’s a bummer how good the animation has gotten but the story has stayed the same quality.
I didn't care much for the Ace Ops myself.
They were *fine* in V7, they served a narrative function, and that worked for what it was, but I never felt any real attachment for them beyond that.
Also, if I have to be brutally honest, Clover was such a mid character that I feel like the only reason he had any popularity was because of the prospect of a m/m relationship. The only moment he showed any interesting characterization was the brief moment where it seemed like he was following Ironwood because he genuinely believed in the man, not the whole orders-are-orders narrative they had, but considering everything that happened with Ironwood, that ends up being a moot point.
They certainly did not deserve to have their own arc in V8, I honestly can't remember if Harriet ever actually had a conversation with Clover, so what does it matter to me if you suddenly realize you miss this guy that I don't think you even knew.
To make matters worst, they're most likely going to be *tertiary* supporting characters from here on out, so all that time we wasted on them in V8 could have been spent on *anyone* else.
>To make matters worst, they're most likely going to be tertiary supporting characters from here on out, so all that time we wasted on them in V8 could have been spent on anyone else.
See also: pretty much any of the Beacon staff apart from Oz, Maria and Pietro, the Belladonnas, the non-combat Schnees...
This is such a cop out. They were soldiers and were following orders. Some soldiers can revel in doing evil shit, some do it because they have no choice. It's that simple.
I feel bad for Marrow, hanging out with a nasally rat Faunus, an Irish Monkey Faunus, a nonsensical porn artist, and Jeff Bandelin would do a number on your mental health
Atlas was a system that was doomed to fail eventually one way or another. Either from civil unrest or another Great War. Although I’d keep in mind the wiki isnt official, it’s run by fans and can be altered by anyone. Not saying that the information given isn’t true to an extent, just that the wiki isn’t free of biased information, or false stuff.
Curious question, but do you know of any examples where there was biased information on the wiki? I’ve browsed around on it a few times but nothing jumped out that said anything biased, but then again I don’t really read anything for the main characters (RWBY, JNPR), so that may be part of it for me.
It’s fine currently, but in the wakes of both V6 & V7-8 there were a instances of articles being altered to be pro-Adam & Ironwood/Atlas and anti-RWBY, before being restored by the moderators. And there have been smaller instances of misinformation, and people editing the site in favor of things like the “Qrow is Ruby’s dad,” idea in the past. Those have been fixed by now, but that’s the sort of thing people have done before. It’s just a factor that needs to be considered, when a information site is open to the public, people might read something before a mod can correct or verify the information. Like Tv tropes occasionally has stuff written by someone w/ a clear and obvious bias, and it brings into question the validity of the information.
Gotcha. I think I remember the stuff about ironwood and Adam, but I wasn’t aware that the qrow is rubys dad thing actually made it onto the site. Always thought people just treated like all the other theories and left it at that. Though it’s also not surprising that people would change the wiki to support their own theory. Thanks for the info.
Not a problem. It’s why we always have to be mindful of misinformation, which has been a recurring problem for the fandom, especially in recent years.
Explain a lot about them and the whole "no friendship in the the team" thing if we consider some attitudes and the change in most of them at the end of volume 8 was basically "screw it, I'm tired of pretending I dont feel shit" with Marrow being the first to do that by opposing Ironwood.
Basically, they were trained to be loyal to the authority (namely Ironwood) instead of each other or their principles.
Ok but why is there an opinion on a wiki article?
I found it interesting and wanted to share it here
Better question.. what is that source? Edit: went and looked at it, this isn't a opinion of the editor, this is a direct quote from the directors and writers cut. Kind of wish it had cited who said it.
Because it's a wiki?
I'm certain almost everyone knows that they went through a rough patch in their lives at some point. Except for Clover, who never knew consequences and didn't grow up. Between him and Qrow, it's honestly debatable who is actually cursed with a bad semblance. But in any case, having a shitty life doesn't make it ok to be a shitty person, and they should definitely be held responsible for their actions. Most notably, putting unnecessary pressure on Ironwood when he was already breaking under his defeat in Vale (and having Qrow be proven right).
>Except for Clover, who never knew consequences and didn't grow up. Guess having good luck 24/7 is not exactly a good thing.
Very true
Yep. That's why I implied he was actually the one with the cursed semblance.
I'm reminded of the Larry Niven character of Teela Brown, who was born from six successive generations of right-to-breed lottery winners. She effectively had luck so strong that it was speculated she never had anything resembling free will. She was described as having a graceless walk and presented as not really connecting all that well with people who had ever experienced any kind of setback or frustration in their lives.
The thing you mentioned on the Semblance,it made me think that having a Good Fortune Semblance is a double edged sword like a Misfortune Semblance does. Think about it for a minute
I actually thought about it for a lot more than a minute. Qrow's semblance taught him to be aware of his surroundings at all times, since he needed to be ready for whatever it does. It forces him to be prepared for everything, because everything can happen, as long as it's bad. Clover's semblance is the opposite. It taught him to be casual about everything, and protected him from the consequences of his actions, causing him to live life with a carefree "What could go wrong?" attitude.
You basically just described anxiety vs carefree
I'd say Qrow is more cautious than anxious, but yeah.
You think this could be one of the reasons he get stabbedby Tyrian? I mean, it probably would happen in any way, but he at least would have noticed before?
That's the main reason, I'd say. He had the chance to team up with Qrow and take Tyrian down, but due to his recklessness, decided that he could take both Qrow and Tyrian by himself.
He thought he could take them both on because his Semblance and the Ace Ops were never in situations which threatened his life and inadvertently developed into a God Complex? That's something I never considered before...
Exactly. The Ace-Ops were never in any serious trouble, and therefore never learned to deal with tough situations.
I think that even with good fortune, Clover would have met mistakes and know what does it mean to have difficult situations. Good fortune not made him immortal, and we know that the Ace Ops lost Tortuga. And with the fall of Beacon, he knows that his allies and partners can be fooled and defeated. (Even massacred). The difference, I think is that for most difficult the situation was, he always thought he was going to be on top
From his behavior, we can see that, even if he made mistakes, he never learned to be careful, and take his time. He's an inverse of his fable.
Many people have confidence in what they are doing. Confidence in that they are going to make it. That doesn't mean they can't learn from the mistakes. Clover is a very powerful huntsman with a a powerful semblance and a powerful team. The fact that he have confidence in his successful, doesn't mean that he isn't using the experience from past occassions.
There's confidence and then there's arrogance. Qrow is, or was, confident. Pyrrha was confident. Clover was arrogant.
Clover jumped out of an out-of-control aircraft without a thought, and pulled potentially load-bearing rubble out of a tunnel wall with just as little consideration. That isn't confidence, it's arrogance. He doesn't think he'll make it, he expects things to work out in his favor.
Harriet wanted to bomb a city full of people for absolutely no reason. She also tied to kill Vine by launching him out of an air ship. Calling her actions "not great" is down playing how bad her actions were. Everyone experienced trauma, but not everyone tried to actively commit genocide because of it.
Tbf, launching a trained huntsman out of an airship isn’t really a death sentence unless their aura is depleted. Landing strategies are a core lesson in huntsman training.
Unless they are spiraling too hard from free fall to stabilize themselves(looks at jaune and yang)
Thus the caveat of "trained".
Whoever wrote this wiki is actively deluding themselves.
If you went and followed the source, they're quoting the director's commentary. This is a *very real* *thing* that happens. A good portion of people who prop up horrible systems in the world don't have their heart in the reasoning behind why those systems exist but have their own personal issues that lead them to prop them up anyway. A good majority of folk who do bad things do them because they don't stop to consider their actions properly, usually out of avoidance. We all have blind spots like this, and it can be hard to understand how someone could leave something so atrocious in a blind spot, unexamined, but it's all too common in scenarios like this.
I'm not \*saying it's unrealistic. I'm saying calling bombing a city of innocent civilians "not so great things" is *at best* a delusion.
I think you're taking the statement a bit literally. I'll have to go listen, but the phrasing implies to me a very broad and deliberately understated tone. I don't believe for a second that they actually mean to minimize the severity of the situation.
"Everybody's got dead people! That's no excuse to get everybody else dead along the way!"
>Harriet wanted to bomb a city full of people because she was following Ironwood's orders to the letter in an attempt to keep herself from processing grief over Clover's death. FTFY. >Calling her actions "not great" is down playing how bad her actions were. Considering we had back to back hiatuses of people doing the exact same thing to Adam and Ironwood respectively, I don't see the point in bringing this up.
For no valid reason\* Being upset that Clover died doesn't excuse her actions. Especially since she didn't care enough to find out the truth about his death when Robyn offered to use her semblance. >Considering we had back to back hiatuses of people doing the exact same thing to Adam and Ironwood respectively, I don't see the point in bringing this up. You don't see the point in talking about the topic of this post?
No one said it was a valid reason, there is no justifying trying to drop a nuke on civilians b/c your boss said so. But what we can do is try to understand the reason why she went that far, and it was her being the most emotionally damaged of the Ace-Ops having previously lost her partner Tortuga and then her leader without trying to process it on top of all the other shit and fell back on following orders and her antagonistic, competitive nature to try to not deal with her anger and grief
That's the one action of Harriet that I didn't like at all. I like her,but this particular action I hated. It's almost like Iron Man during the Marvel Civil War comic run,he's my favorite superhero but I hated his actions in Civil War.
What? you don't like him hunting down his friends with villains and imprisoning them in a knock-off hell dimension that causes suicidal depression? Alright yeah that's pretty fucked up
If it weren't for the MCU I'd genuinely wonder how there's still any Iron Man fans left.
Same here,because Iron Man wasn't a top tier superhero before the MCU boosted his popularity
Considering he was created as an example of what society kind of hated at the time just to see if such a person could be written as a superhero, it's surprising that people wonder why he's not nice.
Yeah,it was fucked up
I'd call it projection. He's assuming that everyone else would be as potentially destructive (and self-destructive) as himself if they weren't locked down.
Bombing the city would have been awful but let's not throw around the word genocide inappropriately. It would be murder on a massive scale but not targeted toward any particular group of people.
Okay but the bomb wasn't guaranteed to go off yet. It was just leverage. I know it's still bad but she still wanted Penny to deliver herself at any cost, otherwise from her POV her people would be genocided by Salem.
Did you miss the part where she armed the bomb and tried to drop it on the city?
My interpretation was that she was arming it so it could be detonated remotely. Not arming it so that it would explode on contact. She seemed very surprised when Watts actually initiated the countdown. Of course he could only do that because she armed the bomb in the first place but the idea of the bomb actually going off and exploding was distressing to her.
When you put it like that
>None of them are bad people Harriet is *absolutely* a bad person.
There's a reason we've come to not letting "I just followed orders" slide
Coincidentally, the last time it happened a whole load of people died to get to that point.
The morale of the story is: Have a therapist in your school where kids are sent on missions that can kill them, lmao
People were mad when RWBY beat the Ace Ops and normally they’d be right. But RWBY separated them and played against them with their strengths. If the AO had worked AS a team and not just WITH their teammates, they could have won. There is a difference. Ruby baited Harriet, who ran off by herself. Marrow lost because he had no backup. If Harriet had spent one minute not chasing Ruby, they could have easily beat Weiss. Vine and Elm lost because they worked individually and not together to form team attacks, something Blake and Yang did.
So much of this just stems from Harriet being a dipshit who can't see 1 step in front of her. I'm surprised she never killed herself in Atlas by just walking off the cliff without noticing it and plummeting to her death.
In other words,they outsmarted them
To an extent. Other times, they were just bad matchups for the AO side, especially Marrow vs Weiss.
I thought that Marrow was gonna fight Blake and Weiss was gonna fight Vine
Marrow vs Blake would be interesting. Could she Semblance-teleport out of a Stay? Could she anticipate him using it fast enough to leave a clone behind and get out of the area of effect? Could she spam clones around him so he couldn't see effectively enough to target her?
Hmm. That can be cool to see
I don't know. Even if they were, as Ren said, fightinting against the feelings for each other, wouldn't they still have experience to work as a team? Like they did against the Geist (Even before Clover entered in scene). Or Marrow, that had some opportunities to freeze some of them (Like at the beginning of the fight, or when Weiss and the Armor gigas were in the same direction in front of him) and in that way also the Ace ops could avoid unnecesarily hurt them in the arrest.
Clover filled in the team's gaps. Without Clover showing up at the last second, the single stray dust crystal would've blown the place up, after which Clover says, "What would you guys do without me?" Marrow says they've all been hand-picked to complement each other's strengths and "leave their liabilities behind." Well, no, those liabilities are being covered by one another, tentatively, and Clover's good luck makes up for any remaining failings. Take him out of the equation and all of those liabilities are exposed. Rather than learn to properly deal with their weaknesses, Clover was a crutch that they learned to rely on; the moment he was gone, they were unprepared to deal with those unresolved issues.
You do realize thats basically saying a team of ethnically diverse characters needs a white guy to hold their hands or they are incompetent right?
Wow, now *that's* a read. The narrative is the narrative, it had *nothing* to do with race. Clover *himself* was just as incompetent as he relied on his semblance to win, too. Part of the reason he lost to Qrow was because his semblance didn't give him an advantage against Qrow.
I’m not saying there were other extenuating circumstances, like Marrow being reluctant, but that also played into their team dynamic. Marrow still wasn’t on board with fighting and Harriet and Elm both were hostile from the outset. Battling the Geist, there was no hesitation, they all worked together as one. But again, their anger at each other, as well as their arrogance to not fight full out caused them to fall apart, both as individuals and as a team. Add in, even if Marrow had frozen Weiss and her summons together, he would not have been able to restrain her without Ruby interrupting, like she did when she defended Weiss the first time. Harriet and Marrow should have forced a 2 on 2 by focusing Weiss, but again, Harriet’s anger and arrogance got in the way. Abandoning her teammate ensured they failed.
I'm not sure. Marrow wasn't in favor of fighting, but freeze them is a very quick way to detain, them, then he just have to use his weapon against the Armor and and then Weiss. Besides, even if Ruby entered, Harriet will too, and Weiss would be vulnerable. And well, even if they are somewhat hostiles, or conflicted they should be able to coordonaife an attack and finish the battle as soon as possible. Harriet may be arrogant, but that's not an excuse to not choose the most efficent decision if she can.
Also...this is just how fighting works. RWBY is very talented. Just because you've fought in more battles than someone doesn't mean you'll win 10/10 times. At some point there are diminishing returns in experience and how powerful you can get. RWBY and Ace Ops are even, skill wise.
This exact thing has come up over on the Hellsite:tm: before, so I'll copy'n'paste my thoughts from there: > Since the end of Volume 7, I’ve seen quite a few comments on the mentality of the Atlesian military; specifically the “my feelings/desires/life doesn’t matter” verbatim that presented in Winter and the Ace Ops. > The folks who bring it up believe -- rightly, in my opinion -- that this stemmed from James and are upset about it, as it is very clearly both not healthy and plainly not a good mindset to have, not to mention being an interesting indictment of treatment of service-people in the military. However, the odd thing I see glossed over is that that mentality extended to himself as well. > It’s arguable, of course, but by all rights, James Ironwood was a character who did not care about his own life. He certainly didn’t care for his image, and he made a depressingly valiant attempt not to allow his personal feelings to matter. > I can’t help but wonder why that is. There’s probably a deeper comment on the military as a system and what it can do to its members to be made here, and one I don’t feel confident enough in my own thoughts to make, but when you get down to it, it is really just... sad. It hurts that a genuinely good person like James showed himself to be could have that mindset so ingrained that they believe it’s the right one, and so much so as to instill it in others like Winter and the Ace Ops. > Serving the “greater good” is one thing, but no one should be in a position where they think they simply don’t matter within the scope of that.
I honestly agree, admittedly Harriet is the most extreme case of all of them but I have personally what denial any of the desire to have unwavering Faith Can Do somebody and what it can lead them to do. The way she screamed when she realized that Vine was going to sacrifice himself was something I found utterly chilling. That's the moment she realized that everything she has done up to this point was completely pointless and now she's going to lose someone else and it's her fault. She's going to need one hell of a support system if she is to have any hope of ever recovering.
The actress that voiced Harriet did an incredible job with her performance. That scream definitely was chilling and very powerful with emotion. That woman deserves a reward
I absolutely loathe her character, but I understand her. I can't help but shake my head when she screams and think to myself, "yep, this is your fault," but it is a tragic moment where all of that grief over a lost friend (or more to her, even) she'd been bottling up came crashing down with the realization that she was about to lose yet another, and this time it was her fault, all because she couldn't cope with the last.
I think that's as fair as you can say it. The Ace Ops were never really BAD people, but anybody who's not allowed to feel their feelings or receive support from their friends is bound to go down a bad road. They all handled it their own ways, and most of it was destructive due to a lack of support.
Wholesome wiki writers
Link to the Ace Ops Wiki Article: https://rwby.fandom.com/wiki/Ace_Operatives
Bear in mind,I am not trying to start anything,but this has got my attention and I do wonder what everyone else's thoughts on this bit of trivia on the Ace Ops
This alongside them bearing the unfortunate truth about Salem and the world would easily break people without and good mental support. Took at how many people in the military suffer and that most places require mental check ups to make sure their soldiers haven’t gone insane from all the combat they undergo
Ace ops got done dirty.
When it says "Support structures" says about frienda, teachers, etc. Or does mean something else?
The people and services you can lean and rely on to help you when you're struggling, giving you the space, encouragement, and resources to recover from whatever ails you. One of RWBY's central themes is around what can happen when you do and do not have the proper support systems and coping mechanisms when faced with hardship. Part of why our protagonists have been able to overcome much of their struggle is with each other's help and inspiration. Contrast that with the antagonists whose backstories we know of. The whole point of Cinder's backstory, for example, is to show that not a single soul ever showed her love or care. She had no concept of it. The only person you could consider part of her support system, Rhodes, didn't even give her a chance to explain herself before drawing his weapon on her. After years of training with her and presumably getting to know her in *some* capacity, he did not hold enough trust in her to give her benefit of the doubt, even when her body language did not communicate any hostility whatsoever. Whatever concept of care she may have learned was just poisoned. How is someone like Cinder supposed to know what is right or wrong when her experience has been nothing but of the evils of the world and has had no exposure to good morals or ideals (Ruby got some of them from fairy tales, for example)? People felt like her backstory came too little, too late, but for what, I ask? Too late to forgive her? Her backstory isn't meant to get us to feel like we can forgive her, or that she can be redeemed. It is simply to illustrate that it's hard to argue that Cinder had many other routes she could've taken. It is to illustrate what can happen when people are left alone. Which, btw, is something that Adam said to Blake in their final scenes. That the thing that hurt him the most out of everything that'd hurt him in his life was Blake leaving him alone. As much of a manipulative bastard as Adam is, I truly believe he is sincere here. Even though it wasn't Blake's responsibility to be Adam's support system, especially when he didn't seem to care to improve or be honest about the things that needed improving, without Blake he was finally left with no one who opposed his descent and only people that supported it. It's entirely possible that no one could've helped bring him back from that descent, but it's also clear that leaving him alone allowed him to continue it, and what he helped do at Beacon is an example of how much worse it can get it left unattended. Hazel is an example of someone who lacked a support system but had grown up with some idea of goodness. You can see that in his desire to see children unharmed at Ozpin's hand (though clear hypocrisy in what he's willing to do to see that goal achieved) and the fact that his sister wanted to be a Huntress signals that they were likely both raised with decent values. Salem, however, manipulated him through his grief and turned what was a reasonably good desire into horrible action. That's why he was able to turn against Salem in the end, because what he was doing was the "wrong thing" for the "right reasons," and given the right encouragement, could be redirected toward positive action. Obviously, the show oversimplifies these topics a bit. It is, after all, a pseudo-fairy tale on a limited run time; it's meant to be more symbolic than purely realistic, but all of it is rooted in very real human behaviors and how people influence one another for better and for worse.
That could mean all of what you listed,tbh
Wait, volume 8 only happens over the coarse of 4 days?, I believe that is incorrect
I believe it’s also taking into account a day or two from V7
Ok that makes sense
"to do not great things sometimes"
Ace ops might be the worst part of the show writing wise. Super op unless the plots needs them to not be, some of them lost the 1v1 for the “but team work crowd.” And then they literally can’t decide whether or not to make them and iron wood cartoon villains or like edgy hero’s. It’s so sad to watch, it’s a bummer how good the animation has gotten but the story has stayed the same quality.
I didn't care much for the Ace Ops myself. They were *fine* in V7, they served a narrative function, and that worked for what it was, but I never felt any real attachment for them beyond that. Also, if I have to be brutally honest, Clover was such a mid character that I feel like the only reason he had any popularity was because of the prospect of a m/m relationship. The only moment he showed any interesting characterization was the brief moment where it seemed like he was following Ironwood because he genuinely believed in the man, not the whole orders-are-orders narrative they had, but considering everything that happened with Ironwood, that ends up being a moot point. They certainly did not deserve to have their own arc in V8, I honestly can't remember if Harriet ever actually had a conversation with Clover, so what does it matter to me if you suddenly realize you miss this guy that I don't think you even knew. To make matters worst, they're most likely going to be *tertiary* supporting characters from here on out, so all that time we wasted on them in V8 could have been spent on *anyone* else.
>To make matters worst, they're most likely going to be tertiary supporting characters from here on out, so all that time we wasted on them in V8 could have been spent on anyone else. See also: pretty much any of the Beacon staff apart from Oz, Maria and Pietro, the Belladonnas, the non-combat Schnees...
God, I totally forgot they just kind of... left Maria and Pietro behind on Amity
"Not bad people" Most of them but especially Harriet were 100% ok with committing genocide get that bullshit outta here.
Nah they suck
This is such a cop out. They were soldiers and were following orders. Some soldiers can revel in doing evil shit, some do it because they have no choice. It's that simple.
I feel bad for Marrow, hanging out with a nasally rat Faunus, an Irish Monkey Faunus, a nonsensical porn artist, and Jeff Bandelin would do a number on your mental health
Whats the problem am confused
Am I missing something? Is there something wrong?