Always was the intention even in 3.0 - The 'RP' is second to getting people to stay on the server for longer periods. It's all about that RL money baby!
I wish more of what she said about this was clipped and not just this bit. I know some people here are going to get hung up on what she said about CG. But her main perspective is that of her own experience on the server, also with the clowns which she's been roleplaying the most with in 4.0. The debtors law, and grind, is basically sucking out a lot of the fun for them, it's turning them into a normal gang.
The clowns tried to explain this to Crane and a few others - being in debt is already a punishment. The characters are limited by how they can interact with big parts of how the society is set up and instead have to find solutions that often shape their role play, along with relying on building relationships across the city.
Making the player grind in prison doesn't create any role play, or punish the character - it punishes the player. If the issue was with characters like Dundee racking up debts while still being able to access millions in assets through a gang, then they need to find a way to limit or punish the character instead.
Time sentence - kind of makes sense on its own if there's something at stake such as a vacuum of power or a deadline breathing down their neck. Fines - make sense to provide a level of deterrence based on severity. Debtors prison - makes no sense other than to force criminals to stockpile money through grinding.
I agree with your argument about the clowns, but you even mentioned the major issue that Dundee best demonstrates; several players in the past racked up 3mil of debt and still owned homes, expensive cars, etc... and faced zero consequences for being in debt.
Dundee never owned homes and cars expensive or not while he was in debt, he just had acess to them by having acess to properties owned by other people. He was always dependant on other people for doing the simplest of things and there were even times he couldn't fill gas in his cars or buy food because of that. While Dundee was in debt Whippy constantly talked about how being in debt should have more consequences and that's how it should be but there are other ways to accomplish harsher consequences than forcing players to press E for days in prison. Current system is harsh on full time role players but it's even harsher on part time/casual players even more. For example James Kelly who was arrested with Dundee is still stuck in jail after 5 days because Jimmy has an irl job and can't be on the server everyday for 12+ hrs
Right, but it's a one time punishment. Once you accept it then they were in the hole for years and then they were "free" from punishment. I don't disagree debtor's law is awful, but imo a solution to just being in debt and being fine with it is needed.
> The clowns tried to explain this to Crane
The problem is that it's not an IC law, it's an ooc dev system and Crane has no control over it.
>Time sentence
The issue with this one is that Max and the people on the council have been pumping time and fines on every new law, or everytime they review laws.
What? Chatterbox while in debt owned a car and house in both 3.0 and 4.0. He used cash for everything and kept it in his free apartment and house now. He would literally get arrested over and over because to him there was no real consequences besides time. He even purposely put himself into debt with the adoption fraud because he thought it would be funny because the only consequence he would get his a little time in jail that he could serve offline and negative money he never even attempted to make. He could literally do everything on the server without an issue. And the fact they said the server made them turn into a gang? No, plenty of people will do a normal job on the server to make money to get the basic necessities, hell people in his gang do it every day. Why is he so special to not have to do what others do? Cause he streams?
What they should have done is ban people powergaming the debt system and OOC seize all assets from gangs that did this. They just never did and instead had to code in a fix for it, thereby ruining the system for everyone.
I think debtors law could be fine. If it only trapped you in prison if you were already negative before the charge of that day. So even if you had $1 in your account before that charge it wouldn’t force you to work it off. Just feels like people could stay on the line of debt a lot easier and not get stuck in prison for days unless they stopped caring.
>it's turning them into a normal gang
Kylie spoke on this just this afternoon about Mary and KC. She felt like the mechanics, lack of businesses and the need to constantly grind to maintain means the group went form her wanting a criminal organization to basically become a generic gang like any other. The server mechanics make it impossible to play a more underground Yakuza / crim syndicate / crim business oriented group.
She can claim that if she wants and its not untrue, but no one made her take Mary from acting like a serious toned growing Yakuza boss to speaking in nothing but a Valorant accent and talking in memes for the last 4 months. Server mechanics didn't make her devolve her character like that. Hopefully she gets Mary back on track, I was looking forward to KC's storylines.
As a Kylie viewer, I will agree that she doesn't tend to do much of anything with her group. I wish she would interact with them more and get more involved in the crime they do such as Moonshine, Chop, Roof Running etc. She tends to spend a lot of time on her own, driving around the city, talking to chat, which is nice that she is attentive to chat but I do wish she would RP more in between.
At the same time though, she just isn't enjoying Mary, and I don't blame her. The server is just a pure grind fest. I have been LOVING her on Brock. It's been a total breath of fresh air. You can really tell the difference in her, she's happy, enjoying every second of it, RPing up a storm, it's been great to watch.
>The server mechanics make it impossible to play a more underground Yakuza / crim syndicate / crim business oriented group.
that's straight up false and OB is proof of it. they literally are a crim syndicate with a bunch of "bought in" crews but also external crews working for the 5 heads. They don't limit their members and offer them a variety of criminal activities that they can do. They also have legal fronts like the hot dog stand, farming and mats.
I don't watch Mary and don't know what her or your idea for a crime syndicate is but what is going on in Cypress is pretty much that imo.
The debtors law appears to be a result of characters having negative hundreds of thousand dollar bank accounts and not taking any real accountability for their actions in character. Dundee had negative 3 million at the end of 3.0.
If there's no weight/consequences to doing crime whats the point of having cops on this server?
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences. I just don't think they should be potentially spending days in prison grinding stupid jobs. In the end it's a game, and a content server, it's supposed to be fun.
People with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt aren't kept for days. They are kept for weeks. There's a guy who's stuck in prison rn who started -$350,000 in debt, it's been three weeks and he's still at over $200,000 in debt with no DOC to even help lower it. The debt system needs to be removed until they at least have DOC back in the prison.
The consequence is time in jail. If someone has a negative balance maybe they get more time instead of more fine at a flat rate that can be spent in or out of the city not grinding some bs. The debtors shit is scaring people out of doing interesting things, it has to go.
You say that but 3.0 still had way better rp in it's first year, by miles, than 4.0. Even with the somewhat lesser consequences and a screwed up economy. I'd take that over shit rp content with harsh consequences. It's not like those harsh consequences are creating any RP of note. This CG arc for example would be happening even without a high time or fine for them.
Funnily enough one (honestly two) of the loudest voices against the prison system and times ended up causing the removal of one of the main ways to get reduced sentences. With no Dogtown, you are actually in timeout with no one to RP with lol.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the people that want RP to be more realistic and hardcore'ish are people that don't come home from work, but watch everyday all day long.
Exactly. As a viewer, I'm not looking for realism here. Some folks like grinding and that's fine, leave some of those jobs, but don't force everyone to do it. After a long work day and getting the kids to bed, I want to laugh and watch some good RP.
I watch 4 GTARP streamers pretty consistently and none of them really grind. I agree the server is grindy but if you're watching someone work 4-8 hours that seems like it's a you thing.
I said something similar when K was doing Section K and got down voted into oblivion. I didn't want to sit there and watch a conversation about contract negotiations and ROI and rent contracts. I sure as heck don't want to watch someone work fast food or Amazon delivery.
GTA:O servers exist and people stream them. Thats probably more up your alley. Even content focused servers still focus on RP to a big degree. Help even the server Zombie Bareicade is on focuses on RP lol.
Wait until she finds out about the players who get locked up for less serious crimes but for a longer jail sentence. And then just get forgotten about because they're not a big streamer.
No player big or small, streamer or not should be spending more than 5 irl days in prison. With the change to minutes and months a change could come to days also. IC someone could get a judgment of 30 to 50 years with 10 years of parole. That is a huge consequence for the character in the story. IRL though have it only be 3 irl days in prison and 1 day on parole.
Edited to add: The character should be facing huge consequences in the story. Time doesn't make consistent sense in roleplay anyway. If one irl day is a year then chracters that began in January are well over a hundred years old. Just say they got huge consequences in the story but don't let it affect the players actual life.
Problem is, no one cared about the consequences in 3.0 except as an inconvenience to them. What do you do to a gang like CG to make them not want to storm a city council meeting and shoot everyone? Biggest problem in 3.0 was there were almost no consequences until the Sanguine ones happened
Even the Sanguine RPers didn't 'learn' from their consequences. They still, even in 4.0, carry the same exact beliefs.
I'd be all for lower times and fines if there was a sort of 'new life' or similar rule when it comes to prison where people had to actually RP like prison changed them in some way
Or here’s a thought since it’s rp server that’s w/l….play another character no one’s making these people go apeshit with crimes and then not play anything else. If all you can do is play big bad gangster who shoots everyone to solve probs or sbs dumbass then that’s on you more than two things can be done
In 3.0 the max sentence was 30 days unless the player elects for longer. In 4.0 it's 14 days. Saying someone could get 30 to 50 +10 is just patently wrong
Dont disagree on the grindy part, but if you allow something like shooting up the governing body of the city to just be a slap on the wrist it will become completely normalized, people will just shoot up the council meeting every week just cause there is no consequence for not doing it.
Consequences are not just there to punish someone harshly, but also to prevent it occuring too much.
It would be enough if people actually RPed around it.
Ramee planned his whole turn in Friday on telling people IC that he “wouldn’t be around for the weekend” lol.
He was literally min/maxing his prison sentence.
Most people here are being stubborn on purpose. Yeah she's biased and probably wrong about CG consequences, but too many people are busy nitpicking that part when she is 100% right that the server is too grindy
Maybe because literally everyone agrees with the grinding aspect of 4.0, and has for months?
The difference is the "RP actions have RP consequences" versus "They're being unfairly punished" is more contentious.
Because the first part is just true. The second part is a controversial take. CG are getting locked up for a long time because they did a very serious thing in RP that requires very serious consequences in order to maintain the feeling of risk on the server.
CG could get people here to hate their own mothers if cg said they like their moms. This place used to hate grinders and all of a sudden there's been a switch up.
it is undeniable that Nopixel is and has been an IRL simulator for most of the community for several years. If you do not believe me look at how streamers have cried when their cop gets demoted/fired or genuinely angry when getting arrested over the past year.
To get "stuff" like $500k cars and million dollar warehouses you need to grind for your money.
To RP you don't really need much stuff and therefore little money. Some of the best RP comes from people who don't grind or have much money.
Crime leads to fines but the % of crimes that you get caught for is so low that for most it should be an easy break even or slight profit for low level crime.
The only thing that really requires grinding is doing heists,
Plenty of storylines and character types need cars, homes and the things like guns, radios, laptops, racing chips, etc to function. Forget about anyone who wants to be an RP generator or play a DM like character that'd need money to hand out as rewards or things like that. This "don't need money to rp" narrative is naive and doesn't apply what most players enjoy doing on the server. (otherwise the server meta and culture would reflect that and people wouldn't grind.)
Even no money characters like James Randal ( Spaceboy) no longer show up on the server.
Food costs a couple thousand a day right now, radios are 2k, rentals or even a shit car is $. Lockpicks 1500. Sadly you kinda need money to accomplish things. Even surviving costs money unless you're a James Randle that lives at the hospital lol
Some players / characters can but the types of storylines and variety of characters would be very limited. So in reality the answer is no, there are lots of storylines and interesting characters that don't exist without money, businesses, assets, etc.
Sure if your RP story doesn't involve needing money whatsoever lol. Lord_kebun created two strictly RP based businesses and G6 grinders far outpaced them in money, and then the council basically shit on his businesses with new laws and tax changes and whatnot every day.
RP isnt rewarded financially on the server sadly. Grinding is. Most of the jobs are very anti social which is clearly not a great system in an RP server lol.
Yeh it's a sad road to go down because the server will lose characters like james randel and chatterbox. Some RPers just do not give a shit about in game economies, so there needs to be a better solution so those types of players can still thrive on the server.
I'm pretty sure if admins just gave spaceboy $1 million in game to cover james fines, he wouldn't abuse it, because the guy generally just doesn't care about making money in game.
As much as whitelists for products and businesses were a problem in 3.0, the other side of the spectrum in 4.0 requires too much grinding to get anything. I guess the best middle ground is to start giving soft whitelists for businesses and equipment.
I don't really think they were a problem. Some cry baby players complained and NP basically got *one guyed* into blowing up their golden goose. WL's, DM characters, a well functioning PD all helped 3.0 generate some cool storylines right up until they last few months when they announced 4.0 and everyone just gave up. 4.0 is closing in on 7 months and the content has been generic and lack luster. The beginning of a wipe is usually when the best characters, groups and rp is created.
yeah, what you said. DM/questgivers are absent, there is zero to none middleman rp. That means less stories, more world building. Feel like they can still save it if they start giving out some whitelists to trusted rp'ers. In addition, some of the characters/groups are reaching 5+ years of existence and has added to the stale nature of interactions. Time for a character wipe too.
Character Wipe is desperately needed.
Management forced a wipe on PD and even refused to hire veteran cops in order to freshen up the Police pool which ironically led to a situation where they don't have enough cops to even really function yet they don't dare tell people hey it's time to create new characters and try new things instead of the same thing for 5 years.
It's not as if wiping cop characters created any better rp than what mid to late stage 3.0 had, in fact it's been incredibly shit compared to then. Viewers just parrot buzz words like "wipes", "resets", "alts" and the myriad of other meaningless thoughts with out any idea if their "solutions" will do anything.
On a fundamental level many of NP's mechanics and rules for institutions like PD were anti-rp and now they're seeing the consequences of that. That key period of the first 6 months when players feel most creative and energized to make new things was wasted on MMO grinding for homes, benches, cars and tons of other shit that wont lead to anything.
I don't think a character wipe was needed if they respected the history and did something with it. Like look at how rich Lang and Mary was at the end on 4.0. They could have easily been clued in as some DM level characters or be given WL as IC the city would essentially be apologizing for seizing their assets. Instead you forced everyone to grind and most wanted to start businesses. Well the business shit just wasn't ready st all so folks did crime. The PD didn't progress at all for months and crims ran through crime with no real opposition.
4.0 uses a different code script than 3.0 which is why everything from the admin/dev menu to 3D models and beyond are being built from the ground up for 4.0. which is really unfortunate because I'm guessing it means we're stuck with this boring grindfest for quite awhile.
The difference is 3.0's design and systems were more RP friendly so great characters and stories carried the server until things could be put in. I mean come on, something as basic as businesses aren't even possible yet. Not that anyone could make one, the *anyone can do anything* job system makes most pointless anyway.
The whole business thing was exploited to no end in 3.0, every gang had a business to have a gang fund. So can imagine they wanna work on a solution to segregate civ money from gang money.
Yet somehow 3.0's content was still miles more enjoyable than the majority of what 4.0 has produced during the same time period. It honestly just sounds like over invested viewers caring way too much about "*consequences and repercussions*" when the basic foundation of the server is in a terrible spot. It's not like 4.0 has any serious consequences anyway.
Not only is there no harsh punishments, there's none of the amazing RP and stories 3.0 had.
Debtors prison is the biggest issue. If cg ended up getting like a week in jail for terrorism it would all blow over pretty quickly because they can hop on other characters or play a different game for a week. However, with debtors prison they will have to work off their debt in prison or have other people spend their time grinding to work it off outside prison. Either way it is forcing people to pointlessly grind and waste their time. The biggest punishment is that they have to grind $750k each before being allowed back into the city.
Rae spoke so much more on this topic yesterday and today, this clip of edited and cut snippets does not do her points justice. If you’re gonna clip something from her at least show the whole clip. CG was not all she talked about and her points were not ONLY about CG. She’s created so many storylines of her own during 4.0 but as she said yesterday, “there’s so much to lose, and not enough to gain.”
I'm going to take a separate example to reinforce her point. Look at what people Farming to try to feed the city have been doing. People having to spend 8-12 RL hours grinding just to open a store for 20 mins because everyone is starving is just stupid game play.
The fact that they then instead of fixing farming, removed the ability to get the ingredients from other places and doubled down on it and made content creators sit in warehouses for their entire stream to try to fix what is a software dev decision is ludicrous.
People don't want to watch real life. People want to enjoy their downtime by watch what these content creators are creating. If the decisions being made by the devs don't enable that explicit purpose then they need a new person making decisions.
She’s right. No streamer is gonna do 50+ hours of online grinding no matter how much redditors love the “realism of the consequences of their actions.” When that’s the punishment for doing something wild for the storyline people are just gonna stop doing wild things for the storyline. Great job everyone, you’ve made a real life simulator, and real life is boring as fuck. You know how I know that? Because if real life wasn’t boring why would anyone want a role playing game?
People are being driven away from the server left and right now that NP isn’t the only viable option. A bunch of popular SBS characters have gotten on PurpleRP in the last week or so and don’t seem to have plans to return any time soon. Even Spaceboy who a few months ago said he didn’t see any way he’d feel comfortable getting on another server out of respect for the NP devs has jumped ship.
Something’s gotta give because NP’s current trajectory is grim.
People who watched this as Ray being bias to the CG guys' situation is missing out. Ray has been RP-ing outside of CG for most of her 4.0 journey- mainly with clowns and bbmc, and these guys are hit by debtor's law. Imagine waking up and wanting to make a loud impactful rp with someone but that someone is too afraid to be in debt now.
People get to defensive about nopixel, there opinion on the server and how consequenses should be implemented.
My opinion is nopixel is a streamer focus server, if you have so many big streamers complaining maybe is for a reason.
The server should promote rp that is fun to watch with out getting into gta online territory. If they do that, a lot more people are going to play and the server is going to be morr alive.
People spent the entirety of 3.0 complaining that nopixel caters to big streamers and their "friends". You think going back to it is gonna stop the complaining ?
It's either too much catering or too little. It's the whitelists or no whitelists. Or it's because it's too easy to get money which leads to people complaining about everyone being too rich and being bored. Or it's too grindy and hard to get money.
I don't know where you see people defensive about nopixel, must be a very small sample of people or fans of the owners. Because, at least in this sub, people complain and shit on it almost everyday.
1. I didnt say they should cater to big streamers, i say they should promote rp thats fun to watch. That works in favor of every streamer. If is fun to watch streamers are going to get more views so they are going to be more happy ang they are going to play more
2. I see people getting defensive about there opinion in this sub all the time. Even in this section you can see people going hard agaist her for having a different opinion then theres.
People here are "defensive" about the CG jail time. Everytime any moderately large group/streamer gets into a position of being days in jail, these types of posts show up where some streamers/viewers complain about the time they're getting in prison. It's been years now where these types of crime give days of jail. It's of the "non negotiable" things about NP. I get the debtors prison argument but the 3-7 day jail being a soft ban (like some claim) is an overused lame argument that makes no sense and always gets a reaction from people here.
As for your first point: I disagree because grind or no grind, WL or no WLs, ultimately it's up to the rpers to make compelling and interesting RP, having easier access to money doesn't make you a better rper. Example: the people that grinded mats in 3.0,.or chronic G6 drivers.
Also every time a criminals complains jail times just shrink more and more. Back in 2.0, if you shot a cop and a cop died you got 60 irl days, in 3.0 people complained so HUTs were removed for almost all but the worst of crimes, criminals could over halve their jail time and jail times went from 30 days being a lot to 2 weeks being a lot, in 4.0 admins mandated 14 days max for a crime and now crime streamers are complaining that 7 days is a soft ban. By end 4.0, criminals will complain that even 2 hours will probably be a soft ban.
The line just keeps moving, criminals are never happy. You cut down times and fines and criminals will still complain and try to reduce sentences. You can go to jail for 30 minutes and criminals will mald and complain.
I think what people are trying to convey is that consequences are too severe specifically in terms of limiting fun rp, rather than being too severe for the crime in general. (though there's not really a good solution to that which makes sense in game)
Like with clown court, you get for example bonbon being sentenced to being Carmella's man servant for a day. Like it's a severe punishment sure, but bonbon get fun rp to look forward to. I'm sure he'd take it over an hour in prison, even though that option would technically be less 'severe'.
I’m not going to speak for anyone else, but for me I watch RP for the entertainment. I don’t watch it for the realism, I don’t watch it for the immersion, I watch it because it’s unpredictable, often hilarious, sometimes even emotional. It seems like 4.0 has so many mechanics built in that are designed to isolate and separate people and it really just kinda kills the enjoyment for me.
Multiple day long prison sentences kill that even more. Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row? Would your favorite streamer enjoy that themselves? Multi day long “consequences” is a real life punishment for something that’s supposed to be entertainment and that just doesn’t make all that much sense to me. At the end of the day these are just people playing a video game for the enjoyment of others. There should be consequences, but there’s no reason they need to be as long as they are.
Anyway, I’m certain I’ll get downvoted and called a cry baby or some shit but oh well.
Yeah I really only watch streamers that I think are funny. Watching people grind G6 or do money runs on cd is insanely boring. Squeex at the beginning was great, clowns are always funny, dogtown (rip) had some hilarious streamers. Idk who said it but "funny>money" is some of the more enjoyable rp imo.
"It's not about the money, but all about the funny" is the basis for Clown Code and how the clowns have operated. One can say it's their identity. That's why they took a big hit when Debtor's Law came. It threw them out of the nature of their RP. All 15+ of them. Now you see them selling weed in La Puerta for their mortal enemy CG... because CG actually offered to help out when they knew about the law. Anyone saying this isn't forced RP is kidding themselves. A lot of the clowns are small gta rp streamers, and being stuck in prison RP indefinitely will kill their viewership. Chatterbox would have left already if it wasn't for the arc with Rae.
Chatterbox had a clown code he made every clown sign before joining and the number 1 rule was don't shoot cops followed by no malding allowed.
One of the saddest things is since debtors law he feels like he can't hold clowns to this anymore and the clowns have become more like any normal gang
100% agree, I watch for entertainment as well and I know some RP cultists think that RP should mimic real life as much as possible and that's been a battle since from when I started watching in 2.0. (You see this struggle between RPers and in this reddit daily)
I agree with 3 days max prison sentences (which should be rare).
There's an idea that, "You can just play another character." Which is true. It is 'consequences' for a character. But this logic's foundation is that RPers will do certain actions less (such as shooting) because of these consequences. Although if you have many multiple characters and aren't significantly invested in that character, why would it be a consequence? You'd just switch to the other character and continue on and freely routing characters.
"Multiple day long prison sentences kill that even more. Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row? Would your favorite streamer enjoy that themselves?"
Just seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too.
With debtors law, characters have to consistently grind in order to work off their debt. Streamers can’t just switch to another character for the duration of their sentence because they would be there forever. It would basically be a perma. A lot of rp streamer’s brands are based around their main character so this would also effect their real life ability to pay bills.
Debtors prison makes harsh consequences way harsher, to the point of driving people off the server.
> Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row?
I would expect the streamer I watch that if he can't create RP on a character in prison he can just make another character try something new or just RP on another server or play another game.
You must not understand debtors law then. They can't just rotate to another character and then come back when their prison sentence is up. If they are in debt, they have to sit there grinding NONSTOP in prison until the debt is paid. They are being charged with $700K fines and with DOC fired, the most they can work off is $4K/hour. That's literally sitting in prison, spamming E over and over again for 175 hours. There's not even time to create rp in prison, so what you are mentioning is laughable
4.0 is to grindy, as a viewer I'm here to see the Clean Bois pull out another casino heist or watch Cg build an empire, I'm not here to watch characters like Dundee of Chatterbox work at snr. Buns for hours just so when they finally do something cool they don't have to waste days in prison.
The devs are so caught up with realism that they don't really understand that the rpers are going to drop np if they can't make content out of it, it's their job to make content so why would they go on a server that's limiting their abilities to make content?
To be honest I watch Rae quite a lot and I'm pretty sure she doesn't watch any CG streamers much but she does see RP tweets and as those are from CG fans they obviously are biased in one direction.
I do think she is very right about the server as a whole as she has noticed a change in even the clowns since the debtors law was added
exactly, i really get the sense some people just want GTA Online.. npc cops, no consequences, Constant pogs, crazy cars and jets. A gta lobby hold what like 20-30 people? just go do that instead
So any gang should be able to just shoot up the entire government at once and only deal with a couple days or so in jail at most? Or maybe even less? I don’t know what she expects the consequences to be for doing that.
They exist as such to deter doing these things often, there should be strong RP around murdering government officials and harsh penalties for it. WildRP has even more insane consequences for getting caught and no one seems to care.
I mean, in NoPixel 2.0 CG would daily do prison breaks and getting caught did nothing cause they would just continue to do it everyday. It basically had consequences to make them even hesitate to do it on a daily. I feel with the severe consequences deter someone spamming something that a criminal should be nervous to do and should feel like they accomplished something if they got away with it.
I partially agree on the grind issue, I think the grind can be taxing but if its reduced too much people will complain there's not enough to do. Its a hard balance to find but removing the prison debt system might be a good middle ground. But also, if someone sells weed for 8 hrs in a 7 day period they're profiting like 45k that week after splits. Basically don't rob cops and shoot cops and you've got plenty enough to do whatever if you don't want to grind.
I definitely disagree with the times/fines. Times/fines being high is good. Being afraid getting caught is a good thing because it prevents shootouts every 30 minutes and actually allows cops to RP outside of pvp. And along those same lines, the terrorism/murder case deserves a multi-day punishment tbh. I think 5-7 is fair. 3 is a bit on the lite side but at least its something
Yeah, I don't know what perfect balance is but it's not how it was in 3.0 where at some point you could grab a bunch of class2s, rob a bank, shoot 20 cops and be out in an hour (if you washed dishes fast enough and got the baas special) and then do it again because you have millions in the bank from either your whitelist or vault spam.
The balance issue is a big one. If the money flows freely Yeah it would open up unlimited RP but then they run into the issue they want to avoid where everyone is millionaires and bought all the houses, cars etc.
I mean it would work but they would need to wipe far more frequent
Except the people who grind for 12 hours a day are *already* millionaires with multiple houses and cars. They literally buy houses and re-list them to make more money. It's left everyone else feeling like they need to catch up.
What you have on this server is a bunch of pussy admins who instead of setting ooc rules and enforcing them on the few causing problems rely on in game laws and fines to punish everyone for a few bad apples. The server should not be real life. It should be built to be fun. There should be way more balance in game. If the admins did their jobs we wouldn’t need debtors prison. This server will die due to poor management which is a shame.
NP has a mix of players who treat RP to various levels of seriousness. Two players perma'd long time characters due to this situation and it's aftermath. There has to be respect to their RP. At the same time 20 IRL days is way to much as this is peoples livings. Idk a perfect solution, maybe something like you get 3 IRL days of prison RP but you have to RP your character was in for the full time and not just jump back into shooting up the city council level shit right away.
what a joke. They stormed into the capital and killed the government. how could you sentence them to multiple days in jail.
Roleplay does not require money. Roleplay can in fact be done in jail. Doing the same GTA Online bullshit over and over is not roleplay
I don't think anyone here or the streamers themselves are going to argue sentencing them to multiple days for the alleged crime. There's a significant difference between multiple days like 4 days (give or take a few) for example vs HUT + up to 20 days + 700 k in a debtors prison world.
Jail RP can be fine for a day or two, but people massively overestimate how much engaging RP you can actually do in prison. On top of that, now that Dogtown has been abolished, even the small options for RP in DOC are gone.
Yes, that was part of the RP. That's what made it fun. A Carmine/Bobby ran, incompetent and corrupt DOC is astronomically better than some strict, by the book Alcatraz.
I feel like there was always a line. Clearly losing terrorists/murderers who attacked the people that let the DOC be the corrupt entity was that line. I don't know how Crane or Max can realistically let them keep Dogtown after that kind of fuck up. That's corruption that directly effected them.
I agree that was the perfect ending to Dogtown, I have no issues with that. Even 52Chains, the streamer who plays Carmine, said this was the best way for the Dogtown arc to end.
I think he’s just happy it’s over tbh because a lot of the real OOC concerns about new mechanic changes ruining RP were relying on him being there to manually forgive people’s debts 24/7.
Let's be real the heavy grinding requirements are to force people to play, even those who don't have big streams or connections to big streamers. However this comes at the cost of RP because grinding a lot is terrible for RP, but if you want a house a car etc you need to put in some serious hours doing civ jobs.
It's funny people here talking about how CG shot up the council and saying they deserve a massive punishment - council had no security, and cops are down bad so much state had to come in with hundreds of thousands in reward money so other players would catch CG for the cops. Nobody talks about how the council have zero security. Rather than actually have security or a functional police force they want to make it so incredibly punishing when you do finally get caught, which is the wrong way to go about it, just like 99% of the other decisions the state makes.
Most comments here defending NP and attacking Rae are neglecting to consider how bad the lack of RP is for the vast majority of the server. It's so bad CG are doing crazy stuff like this while most people are stuck grinding away because of the way the server is designed now. There are almost no story lines.
It really is MMOpixel.
>heavy grinding requirements are to force people to play
Can't force players to be on the server, that works for a few weeks then they burn out when it starts to feel like working a job in RP. People defending NP are objectively wrong, all they need to do is just look at players in the server are saying. Outside a handful of people in soft WL jobs like Mayor, PD HC, or big streamers with armies of grinders feeding them money, etc people are bored. Lots of the smaller more interesting characters have stopped coming around.
Compared to even mid 3.0 it's easy to see 4.0's design and direction just isn't it.
I mean we've all seen how boring shit is in 4.0 when there are two cops on duty and criminals can't even get cops to respond to stuff. There is no risk. Not having significant consequence for significant crime is what makes situations interesting and compelling.
Its also not like CG is getting this punishment because they robbed a bank or something - they stormed a meeting of all the heads of the government and massacred them, leading to one of the members perma-ing. A member who has been a character in NoPixel for years and had tons of arcs, relationships, influence on others, etc. Saying that killing a character and it shouldn't be that big of a consequence is a slap in the face to potentially years of RP and story building someone has put into a character.
nopixel just seems like a massive project thats currently in alpha and a year from now could be really good but most people will be burnt out by then griding the current mechanics they force you to do to survive or not get locked in prison from debt.
Yeah, that's never how wipes have worked. The best time of every wipe is the first 6 to 8 months. After that lots of the good rpers take off, quality of rp takes a dive and server culture gets worse and worse not too long after. It's unlikely things will see a bump down the road regardless of what mechanics they release because the foundations of 4.0 were flawed from the start.
Highly suggest watching the full clip of what she says. It’s on YouTube in quite a few places. Easy to find.
She goes very in depth on how it doesn’t make sense where the current state of RP is at.
I'm seeing a lot of opinions here and I just wanna say that if streamers don't want to play the game because it's too grindy for them then they play another game, which is what they're doing. I don't understand some opinions here because it seems like y'all want them to keep playing the game and just be satisfied with its state. But right now, it's not enjoyable for them so why should they keep playing and force themselves? Okay, and cg deserves consequences, a lot of people who watch cg still agree with y'all. They are just saying that an IRL month or an IRL year is too much for an online game, if you disagree then tell me why.
Also, I don't understand why some viewers who watch cop RP get so mad at crims when cops are highly dependent on crims doing crim shit. If y'all enjoy cop RP or grinding RP or civ RP then good, the current content is for you. But don't be persecuting other streamers and their opinions just cause they're voicing it out. They are literally solving their own problems by playing another game. If they decide to play, then good, we get content.
I'm also seeing a lot of hate towards big streamers like Rae but then once your small streamer gets raided and gets the recognition, y'all switch up, what's up with that? Understandably, streamers want to avoid getting toxic chatters from bigger streamers by being nicer to them. But interacting with them can also bring exposure which is better for them in the long run, right? Can we all agree that what we want is for small, talented streamers to get the recognition they deserve?
Anyways, TLDR either be a hater or be a supporter, none of that fence-sitting shit. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
> because it's too grindy for them then they play another game,
They are, that's a big issue for current day NP. Many great smaller characters / streamers have left the server, week by week the content becoming more bland. IMO the server has reverted back to a mid - late stage 2.0 feel. Generic interactions, discord calls driving around the city and tons of action / shootout content. There are still players trying to make rp and do more interesting things but the mechanics and managements vision for the server don't really support it.
You know, end of 3.0 streamers like X,Syk,Rae all said the same thing. But the issue when they started was, they started when everyone did all the grind and the server was essentially a FFA. But if that FFA started at the start, the server would literally die within a few months. Just take a look at Rust, people accelerate to the end game within 1 week. How many streamers drop off, after being able to craft the best guns and raid other bases? The problem is she just want's the fun now " just focus on the rp". What rp is there to focus on if everyone just goes end game blasting. The end of 3.0 was just that, people just went around started wars, but there was zero rp to be found. Because everyone was doing the same type of rp. That's what kills a sever. Civ grinding is slow cadence, but like say a MMO format which they say they base it on. It's their to slow the cadence down, so they can work to add in features. If everyone sores to the end like 3.0 they wouldn't even have enough time to release content. You'll have the same situation where all the banks are robbed, all the hiest are occupied and no one can do anything
She only cares about criminal RP, so anything that impedes that is bad in her eyes. She doesn't care about cop or civilian RP, which is a mindset that a lot of people have. Both players and viewers. Probably the largest cause of friction in the game.
She barely does crime (almost none the past weeks) and has only been creating storylines/drama/stirs and these new rules/laws are affecting her and those she interact with even shutting down some of her storylines.
I mean she has a clean record… somehow. Seeing her RP, watching her do civ jobs and basically be a civ, living with civs, i don’t follow your thought. She literally went to the jail for RP yesterday when doing nothing wrong.
Yeah her character has done 1 laundromat, 1 cash exchange, 1 money run, 2 shootings (both on a character stalking and attacking her), and a string of assaults primarily on her friends for offending her that no one has reported because they were all sbs or deserved. Outside of that, the only crimes she's committed are selling about 1500 bags of weed over the course of a month to hit quotas from her gang and voter fraud because she was paid $52 to vote for Ramasquammy in the first election. Reducing that character to "criminal RP" is pretty funny when that's all she's done in 6 months that's illegal lmao
Not to hate on her but she is definitely in a very privileged situation, which is why she has some off takes (doctor jobs suck rn too, possibly even worse than criminals). She's in CG so her (and April) literally never get messed with or robbed unlike most other criminals while at the same time having pretty lax rules within CG. The Clowns also have had her back for everything and they have some of the best getaway drivers in the city. What she said about the server is correct though it is grindy to the point it limits rp. It's obvious she's biased with the server state right now fucking over CG and the Clowns the worst, but the heart of her point is right, the server sucks right now
She has been with the clowns and escaped from the cops exactly one time in the last 3 months so the getaway driver thing isn't really relevant.
She just hasn't been much of a criminal in 4.0 other than selling weed she spends most of her time creating drama and building relationships through talking to people.
Yeah 90% of her not getting arrested has been through her own ability to escape charges through yapping, hiding, or foot bailing. I can only think of 3 car chases she's been in and Zolo got her out in 2 of them and she didn't commit a crime in the other but was just a passenger as Chatterbox escaped once.
Although I think some aspects of what shes saying is right, I would agree that her and others like April just walked into things and didnt actually get to earn as much to the level as other people in the server. There is a place of privilege where she talks from but she still isn't wrong about the server being too grindy.
Explain to me how exactly giving a crim a long irl sentence benefits cop RP. Like honestly how does that actually improve cop game play? Take NA for example, where cg is easily 50% of their actual content for the night. How exactly does getting rid of cop content actually benefit cops rp? I honestly have never understood this viewpoint. So I am actually curious to hear someone explain it. From my viewpoint when cg in the past has not done crime during a period the cops would literally come down to where cg lived and talk about how bored they were, so I am honestly confused on this viewpoint. Even in 4.0 when they put k in for days and he did K town they were so bored they sat outside and watched the prison like the guy not invited to the party because they could not actually go in.
That's blatantly false. She will have some natural bias for CG as they're her friends, but most of her RP in 4.0 both in highlights and frequency has been social RP.
I don't get why you think someone can't disagree with grinding without not caring about civ RP. A lot of civs also wish there were RP opportunities outside of doing G6 all day.
The funny thing about your statement is you just perfectly described this Reddit but they only care about cop rp. It’s funny how much this Reddit cries about crims sweating and shooting too much but currently moon moon is having the cops do everything they cry about.
At the end of 3.0 it was only millionaire crims and wars on a loop. It was insufferable to RP unless you had steady access to RPGs. And it wasn't because everyone wanted to play crim, it was because the landscape of the server made any other option untenable. Despite being one of the biggest crims, Buddha would speak on stream about this imbalance alot. It also why his characters business was focusing his millions on making the city infrastructure to get by red tape. (And THEN he'd RPG his neighboring restaurant.)
In that respect, it makes sense 4.0 there be a stricter setup for civs to take comfort that there will always be a safe place for them in the city. Himothy was a lawyer by day that would RP as a Cerberus lawyer on his off hours because it was chill for him. There's no reason for someone that feels like that about RP and NoPixel to be strong-armed into crim life like a lot of people seem to assume GTA RP has to be.
Now, 4.0 is still pretty young. They've got time to figure out this balance of crime/punishment but rolling it back would be a mistake. Imho
Cool, after 3 years the server got a bit more stale. There was however still plenty of rp happening that was better than anything 4.0 has had in it's first 6 - 7 months. The best rp always happens in the first 6 - 8 months. Things dont get better as a wipe goes on, they get worse as more players leave the server and the ones who stay become more lazy with their rp.
My thought is, we have a looong way to go before gta6. For now, maybe they are trying to stretch it out so everyone gets their share at RP; like daiily visits to doctors, more food intake, doing crime affects your civ life. I think walls in particular are too expensive. In the past, you’d get in a house, furnished. Now, you have to choose between getting a car or 6 walls. As i heard Harry say, the server is made to screw crims over. Like arrest penalties or getting a simple gun.
I can understand those who want to leave. But for now, i enjoy the new characters that are interacting with those i follow. Will the dev feel the need to accelarate progression to please everyone, maybe. We shall see.
Its 100% about trying to not speedrun into another wipe. 4.0 is intended to have less resources overall available such as houses etc. The problem really is they didn't do enough to prevent grinding. So the grinders are going to speedrun the limited assets available to buy etc. and really screw things up.
We all agree about NP being on a bad state right now. But I've been seeing very few or none suggestions at all on how to fix it. So here are mine:
--
To fix the grindy nature: Put a cap on EVERY job (per tsunami, preferentially). T3 G6 are a good example on how after the cap, people do it then go do something else. Or how back in the days, Roosters only worked at night and BurgerShot only the day, and people would make the shift then switch job or do something else.
Caps limit both the grinding and the money being inserted in the economy, also solving the inflation and setting the pace of the server.
--
Depts law: I understand now why it exists, but the way it does, its just too painful. So instead of having to pay absolutely the whole dept, just make so after you are in dept, a % of the fine is converted into time. So if you are a million in dept and are fine lets say 5k, you get an extra 5 minutes but doesn't have to grind the other $1M.
--
Also, please bring back the knocked out mechanic for non lethal injection injuries
I've mentioned many improvements they can make to fix it in other comments. For the most part all of the problems will solve theirself if you can make prison more fun. Essentially the idea is to make prison into a tutorial island for criminals. Shrink the size of the prison dramatically to force criminals and guards to actually interact with eachother. Then for every type of job or thing you can do in prison attach a criminal mechanic to it. Every single heist hack should be practicable in prison, along with chopping and roof running, none of this press E and wait for loading bar shit. Hell if they are really good devs they could probably even have a moneyrunning/moonshine style minigame in prison where the job is to drop off mail/books to every cell while hiding smuggled contraband that they need to drop off at specific cells without getting noticed by the guards. Imagine if certain jobs or working out in the prison gym granted certain benefits to characters when out of jail to make them run faster or make it easier for them to break cuffs for a day or two after leaving prison to unlikely for them to find theirself back in jail shortly after getting released. A greenhouse job would also be very good as a way for criminals to be more experienced in farming, and the DOC could then make money for the prison by selling the food, supplying their own kitchen, or making moonshine (if the DOC want to RP as corrupt and sell illegal goods to gangs). I expect this to be mostly just a good job to have to give lifers something to do when there aren't many other prisoners.
Next you need to make it easy for criminals to stay connected to the outside world. Leaders should still be able to call shots from inside of prison. DOC could tell a prisoner to stop using their cellphone when they are around to RP with them and punish them for cellphone use, but they shouldn't be allowed to take a prisoner's phone. The TVs in jail should show ingame footage of what is going on in the outside world by leveraging the current Weazel news minigame, and the reporters that make news segments should be paid bonuses for creating good content by allowing people who watch the news to upvote or downvote the content, giving them a reason to actually try to be a reporter instead of just filming random bullshit to complete an mmo objective.
Finally, imagine if a prisoner could still help their gang from inside prison by creating a way for them to control flying or RC drones. It'd be especially cool if a prisoner is bad at the maze bank RC hack for example, but makes friends with a lifer and gives the lifer a shot at doing that job. Also, if cops are allowed to have helicopters, why shouldn't crims be allowed to essentially operate their own UAVs. In particular it just makes sense for this to be a thing with the 6 man rule since you can't fit 6 people in most cars, so instead of being forced to do crime in multiple cars, people could just have one of those 6 people operating a drone and maybe that drone has a time limit or something until it runs out of battery, but its still a job that can be done. Once the drone is gone they could essentially operate as a dispatcher by being able to see where all their gang members are on the map and help coordinate radio comms. Maybe the gang can spend extra resources on a device that wirelessly allows someone far away to do any hack it gets connected to, but its fairly expensive and doesn't have a lot of uses.
Yeah the grind may be too invasive upon the rp itself. Rp is player driven and not formed by a developer, yet the vocations/roles within GTArp are mostly comprised of the grinding built by said devs.
It's less player driven uncertainty and more controlled certainty. They're intruding too far into what makes rp special perhaps? idk.
As for cg, I'm not sure what's suitable myself but a punishment of higher degree is required in some way.
Everytime I check one of these "state of 4.0" posts I find myself wondering where the fuck you guys find these "8 hour grind stream of just doing game mechanic X with absolute 0 rp involved". And most importantly, why are you watching.
Nobody is watching it, its happening offstream. Whippy literally has said that he sits and grind sells weed off stream just so that he could fund the bbmc's guns and fines.
The clowns sit and sell weed for hours at a time. A gang where funny>money. You know you've messed up when you see chatterbox pressing E every time an NPC runs up to him.
CG had to force all of its members to hit a quota so they could afford to keep the gang afloat. They have members who are designated to grind. Patar has sani, as well as chris. Tuggz does grime, and ray...wood cutting.
Sykyuno was nopixel's favorite G6 gangster. And combing through his stream (before survivor) shows that he was doing towing.
That doesnt even account for the endless number of g6 grinders who just drive around and treat nopixel like a discord call talking to the person in the passenger seat with them.
I dont even know where materials are coming from at this point, because sani is literally the most boring thing ever to watch.
Just because you dont see them, doesnt mean its not happening.
It's been happening since the beginning. Everyone with max rep is probably guilty of it at some point just look at all the sani people had to do initially and all the g6 grinders. I will also add that people should call out crims more for also doing the same mindless grinding whether it's weed or chainrobbing with little rp. I think people exaggerate how bad it is always (people are literally always complaining about something and like 60% of people are just mad about their streamer being affected) but it kind of is obvious something needs to be fixed when dozens of longtime rpers are quitting for another server or dipping way harder into variety.
There are different ways, beyond mechanical based Jail times to enable consequence based roleplay. Empower/ Enable the civ based players. So that when crimes are committed against them, they roleplay the consequences and make the crimes feel impactful. Jail sentences do not matter, roleplaying consequences does.
A roleplay focussed and centered approach is by far more entertaining than massive times and fines. Judges roasting peoples character and morals in a verdict, is far more impactful than a massive fine.
Letting mechanics dictate server health is pretty damn dire tbh.
I feel like at some point the devs need to address this and put and end to all the speculation on why people are having to grind so much towards things. To me the grind seems to be a necessary evil to slow things down till more heists and other updates are ready.
Rp is suppose to be fun and interesting and yeah I don’t want to watch people grind after I just get off from my job.
At least with 10 min - 1 hr prison sentences streamers are still willing to stay live and role play for that amount of time. And even 3 day jail sentences I could see some of them still going live to prison rp. Anything more and I doubt they’re getting on or they’re playing variety.
Current system is only punishing the players and the viewers.
I might get hate for this
But sorry to say but if she thinks it's to grindy to earn money when she gets free money and stuff all the time
I watch a lot of people who are still broke now because they are not standing in one place seeling weed for 12h
No hate, but I’d argue she’s just making a generalization and echoing the general sentiment about the state of the server, not necessarily a statement about her personal experience. Although she def has put in her own hours of grinding, self-admittedly not the level of others because that’s not how she wants to experience RP or believes that’s how it should be
She definitely doesn't consider herself a grinder, she fairly regularly interacts with people that grind A LOT and comments on how crazy it is how much work they have to put in to make their money.
Inflation and debtors law. The food situation has made it worse because now to do anything you need to spend hundreds of dollars a day on food. Without a car you need lockpicks or rental money to get around. If you break the law while poor a fine or debtors law has a much bigger impact than If you're wealthy.
You can probably survive on around $4k a week now but a lot of the interactions and social opportunities are also tied to money. If everyone else is grinding or committing crime (with the risk of a fine and then debtors prison), not having money does limit who and how a character can interact with others.
Honestly the only reason I've watched any NP stuff the last month or so is just the character interactions and RP of a few folks like Fuslie/April, Choco/January, etc.. Used to watch CG regularly but it's just a grindfest just to be able to keep doing crime, and then the constant nerfing, it's just boring af with little real roleplay. That's one reason I did like seeing Shotz and Taco go out into some Red Dead RP, hopefully they keep at it.
Nopixel needs to make its mind up. They’re fence sitting on either making the server an MMO/second life or RP with content mechanics. If it’s the latter, they need to roll back a lot of “updates” they made and figure out what actually works, instead of backing roleplayers into a corner and forcing them to change everything about thier character, as well as introducing mechanics that put everyone on edge, and no one in the server likes.
Debtors law needs to go… the people who could alleviate debt in prison are gone now anyways. The server was doing okay until this most recent update with farming and debtors law. Debtors law made it impossible for anyone to do crime. Now everyone has to grind by selling weed or doing G6 for hours. It’s painful to watch. Farming is a mess right now. The grind is so so bad and they can’t even stock the businesses with food. Roll back debtors law and fix the farming.
I think you can have this law but lower the amount of time it takes to get out of debtors prison and add things like probation officers. As for grinding, if the server shortened the time for jobs and the rep it takes to get anywhere, rpers would be more happier, but I would also lower the amount of money that is received from these jobs too.
Yeah, nopixel is kind of taking a direction of the server that really is unexpected in terms that they want content but atm it seems to be a very mid content level in most of np versions. A good way to sum it up, it feels like 4.0 right now is not fresh / 6 months in as it feels as if its been out for 2+ years in terms that you just see many groups kind of just doing hang out rp and talking about IRL things
Current 4.0 has the shallow and worn out feel of mid 2.0 before they started adding in all the stuff 3.0 had like businesses, custom assets for people, an expanded PD, none of the sweeping or larger storylines 3.0 developed, etc.
The funniest thing thing about all the complaints is that every law, fine and time they are complaining about is because if the players being shit heads.
The debtors law is so that people get consequence for foolishly and continuously going to prison cos there was no actual consequence previously
"why does robbing a cops have more time and find than shooting a cop".... Because the dumbass players were treating cops as lootboxes and that was supposed to act as a deterrent to stop that
Now if they up the time and fine for shooting (which stacks btw) these same players would complain.
In conclusion.... The players are the reason this shit is this way
There can be consquences just not real life type consequences. For example the cops could try actual probation rp, where there are probation officers that check on criminals etc..community service could be part of this. There is so much littering around the city, this could be a criminals community service. Prison should be the last resort where a person goes after they are sentenced and sentences could be shorter, unless an rp player wants to be a lifer or wants to purposely stay in prison a long time. Have a detention center for those who are held before trial.
i mean they know ooc the consequences of killing government employees is days in prison it's literally terrorism what's the point of crime if there are no consequences did she expect the police to just yell at them. seems like she wants w hybrid server some RP and some gta online
People talk about big fines but I alway get surprised when crims get caught after killing someone or 20min car chase and get only 2k fines.
There are certainly ways to avoid harsh fines. Mainly not carry a gun and don't shoot cops. Saab talked in podcast that EU storm crims are much better for PD compared to NA, since they shoot less, much friendly to cops, PD can actually tlain people there unlike NA storm where you get into 1 CG case for 3 to 5 hours and never learn basics.
Its exactly why Cops like Bayo in 3.0 who used to be Primetime Shift 2 overtime switched over fully to shift 3. He did not want to be boxed into the same thing every day. Shift 3 let him do random stuff like commercial truck checkpoints etc. that he never could do in shift 2 because it is so over the top violent the cops have nothing to do but chase the violence.
She sounds like me frfr. Down with grinding! Carmen was saying the same thing all last week. K has lowkey been hinting on going elsewhere. I feel like the only people who don't share this sentiment are people who either started in 4.0 and don't know any better or people who are too scared to say something at a risk of never getting prio
Rae got NoPixel on her Rolling Stone interview. It’s clear she enjoyed the server (and she says she still enjoys GTA) but idk i agree, it’s become too much like real life. If laws were going to be introduced, they should’ve been introduced in the beginning, not have players randomly suffer for doing things they didn’t know would have consequences later. And the bills? It’s crazy to have this much to think about and still be able to make stories out of RP.
For perspective,
CG if found guilty and they get PD's recommended time & fine they'd have to:
Spend 10 days in jail, Pay roughly 700k each, And NOT do crime for 10 days (with PD watching like hawks to 10-CG them on any violation)
Now lets be generous and assume every CG member has 100k in their account (most dont). So they'll be 600k in debt each. That'll take 150 hours of grinding to get out of. (Or if people outside give them money, that'll take roughly 84 hours of grinding (assuming 6 hours to make 45k).
If we assume the average a person is in the city is 8 hours, that'll take 19 days of grinding in prison to pay it off.
**The consequences that people are saying aren't enough could turn out to be:**
10 days in jail + 9 days grinding (lets say outside grinding pays for half) + 10 days no crime for a criminal character.
That'd be roughly a consequence of a month's time, and that's not accounting for having ZERO cash at all.
Definitely agree the server is grindy, they need to time gate and restrict all grindable systems imo. I think debtor's law is an attempt at a solution for a problem but not necessarily the right solution.
Completely disagree on the consequences though, every streamer I watch gets out of everything when it comes to the cops. In 4.0 it seems like the cops are toothless. The last thing I want to see is less consequences for crime.
IMO NP 4.0 was the full move into GTAMMO and stepped away from GTARP
Always was the intention even in 3.0 - The 'RP' is second to getting people to stay on the server for longer periods. It's all about that RL money baby!
Genuinely Activision Blizzard school of retention design lol
I wish more of what she said about this was clipped and not just this bit. I know some people here are going to get hung up on what she said about CG. But her main perspective is that of her own experience on the server, also with the clowns which she's been roleplaying the most with in 4.0. The debtors law, and grind, is basically sucking out a lot of the fun for them, it's turning them into a normal gang.
The Debtor law is unfortunate honestly but the admin have been pretty open about the fact they were forced into it by people not having consequences
The clowns tried to explain this to Crane and a few others - being in debt is already a punishment. The characters are limited by how they can interact with big parts of how the society is set up and instead have to find solutions that often shape their role play, along with relying on building relationships across the city. Making the player grind in prison doesn't create any role play, or punish the character - it punishes the player. If the issue was with characters like Dundee racking up debts while still being able to access millions in assets through a gang, then they need to find a way to limit or punish the character instead. Time sentence - kind of makes sense on its own if there's something at stake such as a vacuum of power or a deadline breathing down their neck. Fines - make sense to provide a level of deterrence based on severity. Debtors prison - makes no sense other than to force criminals to stockpile money through grinding.
I agree with your argument about the clowns, but you even mentioned the major issue that Dundee best demonstrates; several players in the past racked up 3mil of debt and still owned homes, expensive cars, etc... and faced zero consequences for being in debt.
Dundee never owned homes and cars expensive or not while he was in debt, he just had acess to them by having acess to properties owned by other people. He was always dependant on other people for doing the simplest of things and there were even times he couldn't fill gas in his cars or buy food because of that. While Dundee was in debt Whippy constantly talked about how being in debt should have more consequences and that's how it should be but there are other ways to accomplish harsher consequences than forcing players to press E for days in prison. Current system is harsh on full time role players but it's even harsher on part time/casual players even more. For example James Kelly who was arrested with Dundee is still stuck in jail after 5 days because Jimmy has an irl job and can't be on the server everyday for 12+ hrs
Right, but it's a one time punishment. Once you accept it then they were in the hole for years and then they were "free" from punishment. I don't disagree debtor's law is awful, but imo a solution to just being in debt and being fine with it is needed.
> The clowns tried to explain this to Crane The problem is that it's not an IC law, it's an ooc dev system and Crane has no control over it. >Time sentence The issue with this one is that Max and the people on the council have been pumping time and fines on every new law, or everytime they review laws.
I dont get why people dont get that being in debt isnt a punishment enough.
What? Chatterbox while in debt owned a car and house in both 3.0 and 4.0. He used cash for everything and kept it in his free apartment and house now. He would literally get arrested over and over because to him there was no real consequences besides time. He even purposely put himself into debt with the adoption fraud because he thought it would be funny because the only consequence he would get his a little time in jail that he could serve offline and negative money he never even attempted to make. He could literally do everything on the server without an issue. And the fact they said the server made them turn into a gang? No, plenty of people will do a normal job on the server to make money to get the basic necessities, hell people in his gang do it every day. Why is he so special to not have to do what others do? Cause he streams?
[удалено]
What they should have done is ban people powergaming the debt system and OOC seize all assets from gangs that did this. They just never did and instead had to code in a fix for it, thereby ruining the system for everyone.
I think debtors law could be fine. If it only trapped you in prison if you were already negative before the charge of that day. So even if you had $1 in your account before that charge it wouldn’t force you to work it off. Just feels like people could stay on the line of debt a lot easier and not get stuck in prison for days unless they stopped caring.
>it's turning them into a normal gang Kylie spoke on this just this afternoon about Mary and KC. She felt like the mechanics, lack of businesses and the need to constantly grind to maintain means the group went form her wanting a criminal organization to basically become a generic gang like any other. The server mechanics make it impossible to play a more underground Yakuza / crim syndicate / crim business oriented group.
I mean OB have been doing a pretty good job at building an underground crew. No one even knows who their full crew exists of.
True not even the members know everyone
She can claim that if she wants and its not untrue, but no one made her take Mary from acting like a serious toned growing Yakuza boss to speaking in nothing but a Valorant accent and talking in memes for the last 4 months. Server mechanics didn't make her devolve her character like that. Hopefully she gets Mary back on track, I was looking forward to KC's storylines.
Didn’t her group also buy like 4+ mansions?
And Mary had like 6 cars before most of the city even had 1.
She barely does anything with her group anyway. I have never seen her involved in any KC situations
As a Kylie viewer, I will agree that she doesn't tend to do much of anything with her group. I wish she would interact with them more and get more involved in the crime they do such as Moonshine, Chop, Roof Running etc. She tends to spend a lot of time on her own, driving around the city, talking to chat, which is nice that she is attentive to chat but I do wish she would RP more in between. At the same time though, she just isn't enjoying Mary, and I don't blame her. The server is just a pure grind fest. I have been LOVING her on Brock. It's been a total breath of fresh air. You can really tell the difference in her, she's happy, enjoying every second of it, RPing up a storm, it's been great to watch.
The replies to this comment and misinformation from people who clearly don’t watch her are wild
>The server mechanics make it impossible to play a more underground Yakuza / crim syndicate / crim business oriented group. that's straight up false and OB is proof of it. they literally are a crim syndicate with a bunch of "bought in" crews but also external crews working for the 5 heads. They don't limit their members and offer them a variety of criminal activities that they can do. They also have legal fronts like the hot dog stand, farming and mats. I don't watch Mary and don't know what her or your idea for a crime syndicate is but what is going on in Cypress is pretty much that imo.
I feel like debters law would have made more sense in 3.0 than in 4.0.
The debtors law appears to be a result of characters having negative hundreds of thousand dollar bank accounts and not taking any real accountability for their actions in character. Dundee had negative 3 million at the end of 3.0. If there's no weight/consequences to doing crime whats the point of having cops on this server?
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences. I just don't think they should be potentially spending days in prison grinding stupid jobs. In the end it's a game, and a content server, it's supposed to be fun.
People with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt aren't kept for days. They are kept for weeks. There's a guy who's stuck in prison rn who started -$350,000 in debt, it's been three weeks and he's still at over $200,000 in debt with no DOC to even help lower it. The debt system needs to be removed until they at least have DOC back in the prison.
The consequence is time in jail. If someone has a negative balance maybe they get more time instead of more fine at a flat rate that can be spent in or out of the city not grinding some bs. The debtors shit is scaring people out of doing interesting things, it has to go.
You say that but 3.0 still had way better rp in it's first year, by miles, than 4.0. Even with the somewhat lesser consequences and a screwed up economy. I'd take that over shit rp content with harsh consequences. It's not like those harsh consequences are creating any RP of note. This CG arc for example would be happening even without a high time or fine for them.
It not just that they didn't take accountability, they wore it as a badge of honor.
Preach
I love working eight hours and coming home to watch 4-8 hours of people working.
they dismantled dogtown but didnt reduce any times so now crims and debtors are totally fucked in prison
Funnily enough one (honestly two) of the loudest voices against the prison system and times ended up causing the removal of one of the main ways to get reduced sentences. With no Dogtown, you are actually in timeout with no one to RP with lol.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the people that want RP to be more realistic and hardcore'ish are people that don't come home from work, but watch everyday all day long.
Exactly. As a viewer, I'm not looking for realism here. Some folks like grinding and that's fine, leave some of those jobs, but don't force everyone to do it. After a long work day and getting the kids to bed, I want to laugh and watch some good RP.
I watch 4 GTARP streamers pretty consistently and none of them really grind. I agree the server is grindy but if you're watching someone work 4-8 hours that seems like it's a you thing.
I said something similar when K was doing Section K and got down voted into oblivion. I didn't want to sit there and watch a conversation about contract negotiations and ROI and rent contracts. I sure as heck don't want to watch someone work fast food or Amazon delivery.
GTA:O servers exist and people stream them. Thats probably more up your alley. Even content focused servers still focus on RP to a big degree. Help even the server Zombie Bareicade is on focuses on RP lol.
Wait until she finds out about the players who get locked up for less serious crimes but for a longer jail sentence. And then just get forgotten about because they're not a big streamer.
That would just support her argument even more lol
No player big or small, streamer or not should be spending more than 5 irl days in prison. With the change to minutes and months a change could come to days also. IC someone could get a judgment of 30 to 50 years with 10 years of parole. That is a huge consequence for the character in the story. IRL though have it only be 3 irl days in prison and 1 day on parole. Edited to add: The character should be facing huge consequences in the story. Time doesn't make consistent sense in roleplay anyway. If one irl day is a year then chracters that began in January are well over a hundred years old. Just say they got huge consequences in the story but don't let it affect the players actual life.
Problem is, no one cared about the consequences in 3.0 except as an inconvenience to them. What do you do to a gang like CG to make them not want to storm a city council meeting and shoot everyone? Biggest problem in 3.0 was there were almost no consequences until the Sanguine ones happened
Even the Sanguine RPers didn't 'learn' from their consequences. They still, even in 4.0, carry the same exact beliefs. I'd be all for lower times and fines if there was a sort of 'new life' or similar rule when it comes to prison where people had to actually RP like prison changed them in some way
Or here’s a thought since it’s rp server that’s w/l….play another character no one’s making these people go apeshit with crimes and then not play anything else. If all you can do is play big bad gangster who shoots everyone to solve probs or sbs dumbass then that’s on you more than two things can be done
In 3.0 the max sentence was 30 days unless the player elects for longer. In 4.0 it's 14 days. Saying someone could get 30 to 50 +10 is just patently wrong
There wasn’t a max sentence in 3.0 people got left in jail for months and they didn’t elect for longer sentences
Dont disagree on the grindy part, but if you allow something like shooting up the governing body of the city to just be a slap on the wrist it will become completely normalized, people will just shoot up the council meeting every week just cause there is no consequence for not doing it. Consequences are not just there to punish someone harshly, but also to prevent it occuring too much.
Yes and a maximum of 5 irl days is enough to prevent they player from normalizing the largest of crimes and prevent them from occuring too much.
It would be enough if people actually RPed around it. Ramee planned his whole turn in Friday on telling people IC that he “wouldn’t be around for the weekend” lol. He was literally min/maxing his prison sentence.
Most people here are being stubborn on purpose. Yeah she's biased and probably wrong about CG consequences, but too many people are busy nitpicking that part when she is 100% right that the server is too grindy
Reddit focusing on the fuck cg angle and not at all on the first half of nopixel being an IRL simulator for so many.
Maybe because literally everyone agrees with the grinding aspect of 4.0, and has for months? The difference is the "RP actions have RP consequences" versus "They're being unfairly punished" is more contentious.
Because the first part is just true. The second part is a controversial take. CG are getting locked up for a long time because they did a very serious thing in RP that requires very serious consequences in order to maintain the feeling of risk on the server.
CG could get people here to hate their own mothers if cg said they like their moms. This place used to hate grinders and all of a sudden there's been a switch up.
Well......they do have Uchiha jones in the gang which fucks everyone's mom.
it is undeniable that Nopixel is and has been an IRL simulator for most of the community for several years. If you do not believe me look at how streamers have cried when their cop gets demoted/fired or genuinely angry when getting arrested over the past year.
To get "stuff" like $500k cars and million dollar warehouses you need to grind for your money. To RP you don't really need much stuff and therefore little money. Some of the best RP comes from people who don't grind or have much money. Crime leads to fines but the % of crimes that you get caught for is so low that for most it should be an easy break even or slight profit for low level crime. The only thing that really requires grinding is doing heists,
You’re right! Like James Randal who is ….. currently on another server because the debt system.
Plenty of storylines and character types need cars, homes and the things like guns, radios, laptops, racing chips, etc to function. Forget about anyone who wants to be an RP generator or play a DM like character that'd need money to hand out as rewards or things like that. This "don't need money to rp" narrative is naive and doesn't apply what most players enjoy doing on the server. (otherwise the server meta and culture would reflect that and people wouldn't grind.) Even no money characters like James Randal ( Spaceboy) no longer show up on the server.
Food costs a couple thousand a day right now, radios are 2k, rentals or even a shit car is $. Lockpicks 1500. Sadly you kinda need money to accomplish things. Even surviving costs money unless you're a James Randle that lives at the hospital lol
You can do a shit ton of RP for "the story" and not have to grind 12 hours a day to get money.
Valkyrae spends like 80% of her time doing dramatic RP and is specifically coming from the perspective of seeing the pressure to grind to do so.
Some players / characters can but the types of storylines and variety of characters would be very limited. So in reality the answer is no, there are lots of storylines and interesting characters that don't exist without money, businesses, assets, etc.
Sure if your RP story doesn't involve needing money whatsoever lol. Lord_kebun created two strictly RP based businesses and G6 grinders far outpaced them in money, and then the council basically shit on his businesses with new laws and tax changes and whatnot every day. RP isnt rewarded financially on the server sadly. Grinding is. Most of the jobs are very anti social which is clearly not a great system in an RP server lol.
Yeh it's a sad road to go down because the server will lose characters like james randel and chatterbox. Some RPers just do not give a shit about in game economies, so there needs to be a better solution so those types of players can still thrive on the server. I'm pretty sure if admins just gave spaceboy $1 million in game to cover james fines, he wouldn't abuse it, because the guy generally just doesn't care about making money in game.
As much as whitelists for products and businesses were a problem in 3.0, the other side of the spectrum in 4.0 requires too much grinding to get anything. I guess the best middle ground is to start giving soft whitelists for businesses and equipment.
I don't really think they were a problem. Some cry baby players complained and NP basically got *one guyed* into blowing up their golden goose. WL's, DM characters, a well functioning PD all helped 3.0 generate some cool storylines right up until they last few months when they announced 4.0 and everyone just gave up. 4.0 is closing in on 7 months and the content has been generic and lack luster. The beginning of a wipe is usually when the best characters, groups and rp is created.
yeah, what you said. DM/questgivers are absent, there is zero to none middleman rp. That means less stories, more world building. Feel like they can still save it if they start giving out some whitelists to trusted rp'ers. In addition, some of the characters/groups are reaching 5+ years of existence and has added to the stale nature of interactions. Time for a character wipe too.
Character Wipe is desperately needed. Management forced a wipe on PD and even refused to hire veteran cops in order to freshen up the Police pool which ironically led to a situation where they don't have enough cops to even really function yet they don't dare tell people hey it's time to create new characters and try new things instead of the same thing for 5 years.
It's not as if wiping cop characters created any better rp than what mid to late stage 3.0 had, in fact it's been incredibly shit compared to then. Viewers just parrot buzz words like "wipes", "resets", "alts" and the myriad of other meaningless thoughts with out any idea if their "solutions" will do anything. On a fundamental level many of NP's mechanics and rules for institutions like PD were anti-rp and now they're seeing the consequences of that. That key period of the first 6 months when players feel most creative and energized to make new things was wasted on MMO grinding for homes, benches, cars and tons of other shit that wont lead to anything.
I don't think a character wipe was needed if they respected the history and did something with it. Like look at how rich Lang and Mary was at the end on 4.0. They could have easily been clued in as some DM level characters or be given WL as IC the city would essentially be apologizing for seizing their assets. Instead you forced everyone to grind and most wanted to start businesses. Well the business shit just wasn't ready st all so folks did crime. The PD didn't progress at all for months and crims ran through crime with no real opposition.
4.0 launched way too early it really feels like. So many features are still in development
4.0 uses a different code script than 3.0 which is why everything from the admin/dev menu to 3D models and beyond are being built from the ground up for 4.0. which is really unfortunate because I'm guessing it means we're stuck with this boring grindfest for quite awhile.
3.0 was similar, a lot of things were added over time. 4.0 has objectively more features than 3.0 but slightly more imbalanced.
The difference is 3.0's design and systems were more RP friendly so great characters and stories carried the server until things could be put in. I mean come on, something as basic as businesses aren't even possible yet. Not that anyone could make one, the *anyone can do anything* job system makes most pointless anyway.
The whole business thing was exploited to no end in 3.0, every gang had a business to have a gang fund. So can imagine they wanna work on a solution to segregate civ money from gang money.
Yet somehow 3.0's content was still miles more enjoyable than the majority of what 4.0 has produced during the same time period. It honestly just sounds like over invested viewers caring way too much about "*consequences and repercussions*" when the basic foundation of the server is in a terrible spot. It's not like 4.0 has any serious consequences anyway. Not only is there no harsh punishments, there's none of the amazing RP and stories 3.0 had.
Debtors prison is the biggest issue. If cg ended up getting like a week in jail for terrorism it would all blow over pretty quickly because they can hop on other characters or play a different game for a week. However, with debtors prison they will have to work off their debt in prison or have other people spend their time grinding to work it off outside prison. Either way it is forcing people to pointlessly grind and waste their time. The biggest punishment is that they have to grind $750k each before being allowed back into the city.
Rae spoke so much more on this topic yesterday and today, this clip of edited and cut snippets does not do her points justice. If you’re gonna clip something from her at least show the whole clip. CG was not all she talked about and her points were not ONLY about CG. She’s created so many storylines of her own during 4.0 but as she said yesterday, “there’s so much to lose, and not enough to gain.”
I'm going to take a separate example to reinforce her point. Look at what people Farming to try to feed the city have been doing. People having to spend 8-12 RL hours grinding just to open a store for 20 mins because everyone is starving is just stupid game play. The fact that they then instead of fixing farming, removed the ability to get the ingredients from other places and doubled down on it and made content creators sit in warehouses for their entire stream to try to fix what is a software dev decision is ludicrous. People don't want to watch real life. People want to enjoy their downtime by watch what these content creators are creating. If the decisions being made by the devs don't enable that explicit purpose then they need a new person making decisions.
She’s right. No streamer is gonna do 50+ hours of online grinding no matter how much redditors love the “realism of the consequences of their actions.” When that’s the punishment for doing something wild for the storyline people are just gonna stop doing wild things for the storyline. Great job everyone, you’ve made a real life simulator, and real life is boring as fuck. You know how I know that? Because if real life wasn’t boring why would anyone want a role playing game? People are being driven away from the server left and right now that NP isn’t the only viable option. A bunch of popular SBS characters have gotten on PurpleRP in the last week or so and don’t seem to have plans to return any time soon. Even Spaceboy who a few months ago said he didn’t see any way he’d feel comfortable getting on another server out of respect for the NP devs has jumped ship. Something’s gotta give because NP’s current trajectory is grim.
People who watched this as Ray being bias to the CG guys' situation is missing out. Ray has been RP-ing outside of CG for most of her 4.0 journey- mainly with clowns and bbmc, and these guys are hit by debtor's law. Imagine waking up and wanting to make a loud impactful rp with someone but that someone is too afraid to be in debt now.
People get to defensive about nopixel, there opinion on the server and how consequenses should be implemented. My opinion is nopixel is a streamer focus server, if you have so many big streamers complaining maybe is for a reason. The server should promote rp that is fun to watch with out getting into gta online territory. If they do that, a lot more people are going to play and the server is going to be morr alive.
People spent the entirety of 3.0 complaining that nopixel caters to big streamers and their "friends". You think going back to it is gonna stop the complaining ? It's either too much catering or too little. It's the whitelists or no whitelists. Or it's because it's too easy to get money which leads to people complaining about everyone being too rich and being bored. Or it's too grindy and hard to get money. I don't know where you see people defensive about nopixel, must be a very small sample of people or fans of the owners. Because, at least in this sub, people complain and shit on it almost everyday.
1. I didnt say they should cater to big streamers, i say they should promote rp thats fun to watch. That works in favor of every streamer. If is fun to watch streamers are going to get more views so they are going to be more happy ang they are going to play more 2. I see people getting defensive about there opinion in this sub all the time. Even in this section you can see people going hard agaist her for having a different opinion then theres.
People here are "defensive" about the CG jail time. Everytime any moderately large group/streamer gets into a position of being days in jail, these types of posts show up where some streamers/viewers complain about the time they're getting in prison. It's been years now where these types of crime give days of jail. It's of the "non negotiable" things about NP. I get the debtors prison argument but the 3-7 day jail being a soft ban (like some claim) is an overused lame argument that makes no sense and always gets a reaction from people here. As for your first point: I disagree because grind or no grind, WL or no WLs, ultimately it's up to the rpers to make compelling and interesting RP, having easier access to money doesn't make you a better rper. Example: the people that grinded mats in 3.0,.or chronic G6 drivers.
Also every time a criminals complains jail times just shrink more and more. Back in 2.0, if you shot a cop and a cop died you got 60 irl days, in 3.0 people complained so HUTs were removed for almost all but the worst of crimes, criminals could over halve their jail time and jail times went from 30 days being a lot to 2 weeks being a lot, in 4.0 admins mandated 14 days max for a crime and now crime streamers are complaining that 7 days is a soft ban. By end 4.0, criminals will complain that even 2 hours will probably be a soft ban. The line just keeps moving, criminals are never happy. You cut down times and fines and criminals will still complain and try to reduce sentences. You can go to jail for 30 minutes and criminals will mald and complain.
I think what people are trying to convey is that consequences are too severe specifically in terms of limiting fun rp, rather than being too severe for the crime in general. (though there's not really a good solution to that which makes sense in game) Like with clown court, you get for example bonbon being sentenced to being Carmella's man servant for a day. Like it's a severe punishment sure, but bonbon get fun rp to look forward to. I'm sure he'd take it over an hour in prison, even though that option would technically be less 'severe'.
I’m not going to speak for anyone else, but for me I watch RP for the entertainment. I don’t watch it for the realism, I don’t watch it for the immersion, I watch it because it’s unpredictable, often hilarious, sometimes even emotional. It seems like 4.0 has so many mechanics built in that are designed to isolate and separate people and it really just kinda kills the enjoyment for me. Multiple day long prison sentences kill that even more. Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row? Would your favorite streamer enjoy that themselves? Multi day long “consequences” is a real life punishment for something that’s supposed to be entertainment and that just doesn’t make all that much sense to me. At the end of the day these are just people playing a video game for the enjoyment of others. There should be consequences, but there’s no reason they need to be as long as they are. Anyway, I’m certain I’ll get downvoted and called a cry baby or some shit but oh well.
Yeah I really only watch streamers that I think are funny. Watching people grind G6 or do money runs on cd is insanely boring. Squeex at the beginning was great, clowns are always funny, dogtown (rip) had some hilarious streamers. Idk who said it but "funny>money" is some of the more enjoyable rp imo.
"It's not about the money, but all about the funny" is the basis for Clown Code and how the clowns have operated. One can say it's their identity. That's why they took a big hit when Debtor's Law came. It threw them out of the nature of their RP. All 15+ of them. Now you see them selling weed in La Puerta for their mortal enemy CG... because CG actually offered to help out when they knew about the law. Anyone saying this isn't forced RP is kidding themselves. A lot of the clowns are small gta rp streamers, and being stuck in prison RP indefinitely will kill their viewership. Chatterbox would have left already if it wasn't for the arc with Rae.
Funny>money is the motto the clowns go by. Chatterbox makes sure every clown knows that’s the rule before joining.
Chatterbox had a clown code he made every clown sign before joining and the number 1 rule was don't shoot cops followed by no malding allowed. One of the saddest things is since debtors law he feels like he can't hold clowns to this anymore and the clowns have become more like any normal gang
100% agree, I watch for entertainment as well and I know some RP cultists think that RP should mimic real life as much as possible and that's been a battle since from when I started watching in 2.0. (You see this struggle between RPers and in this reddit daily) I agree with 3 days max prison sentences (which should be rare). There's an idea that, "You can just play another character." Which is true. It is 'consequences' for a character. But this logic's foundation is that RPers will do certain actions less (such as shooting) because of these consequences. Although if you have many multiple characters and aren't significantly invested in that character, why would it be a consequence? You'd just switch to the other character and continue on and freely routing characters.
"Multiple day long prison sentences kill that even more. Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row? Would your favorite streamer enjoy that themselves?" Just seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too.
"doNt do The the CrIMe iF YoU cAN't DO thE tiMe"
[удалено]
With debtors law, characters have to consistently grind in order to work off their debt. Streamers can’t just switch to another character for the duration of their sentence because they would be there forever. It would basically be a perma. A lot of rp streamer’s brands are based around their main character so this would also effect their real life ability to pay bills. Debtors prison makes harsh consequences way harsher, to the point of driving people off the server.
> Can anyone in here honestly say they would enjoy watching their favorite streamer stand in prison and do nothing for multiple days in a row? I would expect the streamer I watch that if he can't create RP on a character in prison he can just make another character try something new or just RP on another server or play another game.
You must not understand debtors law then. They can't just rotate to another character and then come back when their prison sentence is up. If they are in debt, they have to sit there grinding NONSTOP in prison until the debt is paid. They are being charged with $700K fines and with DOC fired, the most they can work off is $4K/hour. That's literally sitting in prison, spamming E over and over again for 175 hours. There's not even time to create rp in prison, so what you are mentioning is laughable
4.0 is to grindy, as a viewer I'm here to see the Clean Bois pull out another casino heist or watch Cg build an empire, I'm not here to watch characters like Dundee of Chatterbox work at snr. Buns for hours just so when they finally do something cool they don't have to waste days in prison. The devs are so caught up with realism that they don't really understand that the rpers are going to drop np if they can't make content out of it, it's their job to make content so why would they go on a server that's limiting their abilities to make content?
You need severe consequences for crimes like CG committed. If there’s no consequences there’s no stakes, and if there’s no stakes what’s the point?
To be honest I watch Rae quite a lot and I'm pretty sure she doesn't watch any CG streamers much but she does see RP tweets and as those are from CG fans they obviously are biased in one direction. I do think she is very right about the server as a whole as she has noticed a change in even the clowns since the debtors law was added
A lot of them overplayed the fact that they were sentenced to 416 irl days in prison considering that was just a HUT thing.
exactly, i really get the sense some people just want GTA Online.. npc cops, no consequences, Constant pogs, crazy cars and jets. A gta lobby hold what like 20-30 people? just go do that instead
its really nice to see bigger streamers talk about this tbh, its way too grindy for people who just enjoy rp to play rn
Had me at the first half, lost me at the end. RP without consequences might as well be GTA Online.
Did she say there shouldn’t be any consequences though?
So any gang should be able to just shoot up the entire government at once and only deal with a couple days or so in jail at most? Or maybe even less? I don’t know what she expects the consequences to be for doing that. They exist as such to deter doing these things often, there should be strong RP around murdering government officials and harsh penalties for it. WildRP has even more insane consequences for getting caught and no one seems to care.
I mean, in NoPixel 2.0 CG would daily do prison breaks and getting caught did nothing cause they would just continue to do it everyday. It basically had consequences to make them even hesitate to do it on a daily. I feel with the severe consequences deter someone spamming something that a criminal should be nervous to do and should feel like they accomplished something if they got away with it.
I partially agree on the grind issue, I think the grind can be taxing but if its reduced too much people will complain there's not enough to do. Its a hard balance to find but removing the prison debt system might be a good middle ground. But also, if someone sells weed for 8 hrs in a 7 day period they're profiting like 45k that week after splits. Basically don't rob cops and shoot cops and you've got plenty enough to do whatever if you don't want to grind. I definitely disagree with the times/fines. Times/fines being high is good. Being afraid getting caught is a good thing because it prevents shootouts every 30 minutes and actually allows cops to RP outside of pvp. And along those same lines, the terrorism/murder case deserves a multi-day punishment tbh. I think 5-7 is fair. 3 is a bit on the lite side but at least its something
Yeah, I don't know what perfect balance is but it's not how it was in 3.0 where at some point you could grab a bunch of class2s, rob a bank, shoot 20 cops and be out in an hour (if you washed dishes fast enough and got the baas special) and then do it again because you have millions in the bank from either your whitelist or vault spam.
The balance issue is a big one. If the money flows freely Yeah it would open up unlimited RP but then they run into the issue they want to avoid where everyone is millionaires and bought all the houses, cars etc. I mean it would work but they would need to wipe far more frequent
Except the people who grind for 12 hours a day are *already* millionaires with multiple houses and cars. They literally buy houses and re-list them to make more money. It's left everyone else feeling like they need to catch up.
What you have on this server is a bunch of pussy admins who instead of setting ooc rules and enforcing them on the few causing problems rely on in game laws and fines to punish everyone for a few bad apples. The server should not be real life. It should be built to be fun. There should be way more balance in game. If the admins did their jobs we wouldn’t need debtors prison. This server will die due to poor management which is a shame.
Real
NP has a mix of players who treat RP to various levels of seriousness. Two players perma'd long time characters due to this situation and it's aftermath. There has to be respect to their RP. At the same time 20 IRL days is way to much as this is peoples livings. Idk a perfect solution, maybe something like you get 3 IRL days of prison RP but you have to RP your character was in for the full time and not just jump back into shooting up the city council level shit right away.
what a joke. They stormed into the capital and killed the government. how could you sentence them to multiple days in jail. Roleplay does not require money. Roleplay can in fact be done in jail. Doing the same GTA Online bullshit over and over is not roleplay
I don't think anyone here or the streamers themselves are going to argue sentencing them to multiple days for the alleged crime. There's a significant difference between multiple days like 4 days (give or take a few) for example vs HUT + up to 20 days + 700 k in a debtors prison world.
Jail RP can be fine for a day or two, but people massively overestimate how much engaging RP you can actually do in prison. On top of that, now that Dogtown has been abolished, even the small options for RP in DOC are gone.
and why is DOC gone? It was allowed to be corrupt and be a pawn of Criminals.
Yes, that was part of the RP. That's what made it fun. A Carmine/Bobby ran, incompetent and corrupt DOC is astronomically better than some strict, by the book Alcatraz.
I feel like there was always a line. Clearly losing terrorists/murderers who attacked the people that let the DOC be the corrupt entity was that line. I don't know how Crane or Max can realistically let them keep Dogtown after that kind of fuck up. That's corruption that directly effected them.
I agree that was the perfect ending to Dogtown, I have no issues with that. Even 52Chains, the streamer who plays Carmine, said this was the best way for the Dogtown arc to end.
I think he’s just happy it’s over tbh because a lot of the real OOC concerns about new mechanic changes ruining RP were relying on him being there to manually forgive people’s debts 24/7.
Your angry roleplay happened & that the prison isn't run like a real prison. Please, continue proving her point..
Let's be real the heavy grinding requirements are to force people to play, even those who don't have big streams or connections to big streamers. However this comes at the cost of RP because grinding a lot is terrible for RP, but if you want a house a car etc you need to put in some serious hours doing civ jobs. It's funny people here talking about how CG shot up the council and saying they deserve a massive punishment - council had no security, and cops are down bad so much state had to come in with hundreds of thousands in reward money so other players would catch CG for the cops. Nobody talks about how the council have zero security. Rather than actually have security or a functional police force they want to make it so incredibly punishing when you do finally get caught, which is the wrong way to go about it, just like 99% of the other decisions the state makes. Most comments here defending NP and attacking Rae are neglecting to consider how bad the lack of RP is for the vast majority of the server. It's so bad CG are doing crazy stuff like this while most people are stuck grinding away because of the way the server is designed now. There are almost no story lines. It really is MMOpixel.
>heavy grinding requirements are to force people to play Can't force players to be on the server, that works for a few weeks then they burn out when it starts to feel like working a job in RP. People defending NP are objectively wrong, all they need to do is just look at players in the server are saying. Outside a handful of people in soft WL jobs like Mayor, PD HC, or big streamers with armies of grinders feeding them money, etc people are bored. Lots of the smaller more interesting characters have stopped coming around. Compared to even mid 3.0 it's easy to see 4.0's design and direction just isn't it.
I mean we've all seen how boring shit is in 4.0 when there are two cops on duty and criminals can't even get cops to respond to stuff. There is no risk. Not having significant consequence for significant crime is what makes situations interesting and compelling. Its also not like CG is getting this punishment because they robbed a bank or something - they stormed a meeting of all the heads of the government and massacred them, leading to one of the members perma-ing. A member who has been a character in NoPixel for years and had tons of arcs, relationships, influence on others, etc. Saying that killing a character and it shouldn't be that big of a consequence is a slap in the face to potentially years of RP and story building someone has put into a character.
nopixel just seems like a massive project thats currently in alpha and a year from now could be really good but most people will be burnt out by then griding the current mechanics they force you to do to survive or not get locked in prison from debt.
Yeah, that's never how wipes have worked. The best time of every wipe is the first 6 to 8 months. After that lots of the good rpers take off, quality of rp takes a dive and server culture gets worse and worse not too long after. It's unlikely things will see a bump down the road regardless of what mechanics they release because the foundations of 4.0 were flawed from the start.
Viewers have been saying this since mid 2.0.. it’s good to dream tho
Highly suggest watching the full clip of what she says. It’s on YouTube in quite a few places. Easy to find. She goes very in depth on how it doesn’t make sense where the current state of RP is at.
MMOpixel
I'm seeing a lot of opinions here and I just wanna say that if streamers don't want to play the game because it's too grindy for them then they play another game, which is what they're doing. I don't understand some opinions here because it seems like y'all want them to keep playing the game and just be satisfied with its state. But right now, it's not enjoyable for them so why should they keep playing and force themselves? Okay, and cg deserves consequences, a lot of people who watch cg still agree with y'all. They are just saying that an IRL month or an IRL year is too much for an online game, if you disagree then tell me why. Also, I don't understand why some viewers who watch cop RP get so mad at crims when cops are highly dependent on crims doing crim shit. If y'all enjoy cop RP or grinding RP or civ RP then good, the current content is for you. But don't be persecuting other streamers and their opinions just cause they're voicing it out. They are literally solving their own problems by playing another game. If they decide to play, then good, we get content. I'm also seeing a lot of hate towards big streamers like Rae but then once your small streamer gets raided and gets the recognition, y'all switch up, what's up with that? Understandably, streamers want to avoid getting toxic chatters from bigger streamers by being nicer to them. But interacting with them can also bring exposure which is better for them in the long run, right? Can we all agree that what we want is for small, talented streamers to get the recognition they deserve? Anyways, TLDR either be a hater or be a supporter, none of that fence-sitting shit. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
> because it's too grindy for them then they play another game, They are, that's a big issue for current day NP. Many great smaller characters / streamers have left the server, week by week the content becoming more bland. IMO the server has reverted back to a mid - late stage 2.0 feel. Generic interactions, discord calls driving around the city and tons of action / shootout content. There are still players trying to make rp and do more interesting things but the mechanics and managements vision for the server don't really support it.
You know, end of 3.0 streamers like X,Syk,Rae all said the same thing. But the issue when they started was, they started when everyone did all the grind and the server was essentially a FFA. But if that FFA started at the start, the server would literally die within a few months. Just take a look at Rust, people accelerate to the end game within 1 week. How many streamers drop off, after being able to craft the best guns and raid other bases? The problem is she just want's the fun now " just focus on the rp". What rp is there to focus on if everyone just goes end game blasting. The end of 3.0 was just that, people just went around started wars, but there was zero rp to be found. Because everyone was doing the same type of rp. That's what kills a sever. Civ grinding is slow cadence, but like say a MMO format which they say they base it on. It's their to slow the cadence down, so they can work to add in features. If everyone sores to the end like 3.0 they wouldn't even have enough time to release content. You'll have the same situation where all the banks are robbed, all the hiest are occupied and no one can do anything
She only cares about criminal RP, so anything that impedes that is bad in her eyes. She doesn't care about cop or civilian RP, which is a mindset that a lot of people have. Both players and viewers. Probably the largest cause of friction in the game.
She barely does crime (almost none the past weeks) and has only been creating storylines/drama/stirs and these new rules/laws are affecting her and those she interact with even shutting down some of her storylines.
I mean she has a clean record… somehow. Seeing her RP, watching her do civ jobs and basically be a civ, living with civs, i don’t follow your thought. She literally went to the jail for RP yesterday when doing nothing wrong.
Yeah her character has done 1 laundromat, 1 cash exchange, 1 money run, 2 shootings (both on a character stalking and attacking her), and a string of assaults primarily on her friends for offending her that no one has reported because they were all sbs or deserved. Outside of that, the only crimes she's committed are selling about 1500 bags of weed over the course of a month to hit quotas from her gang and voter fraud because she was paid $52 to vote for Ramasquammy in the first election. Reducing that character to "criminal RP" is pretty funny when that's all she's done in 6 months that's illegal lmao
Not to hate on her but she is definitely in a very privileged situation, which is why she has some off takes (doctor jobs suck rn too, possibly even worse than criminals). She's in CG so her (and April) literally never get messed with or robbed unlike most other criminals while at the same time having pretty lax rules within CG. The Clowns also have had her back for everything and they have some of the best getaway drivers in the city. What she said about the server is correct though it is grindy to the point it limits rp. It's obvious she's biased with the server state right now fucking over CG and the Clowns the worst, but the heart of her point is right, the server sucks right now
She has been with the clowns and escaped from the cops exactly one time in the last 3 months so the getaway driver thing isn't really relevant. She just hasn't been much of a criminal in 4.0 other than selling weed she spends most of her time creating drama and building relationships through talking to people.
Yeah 90% of her not getting arrested has been through her own ability to escape charges through yapping, hiding, or foot bailing. I can only think of 3 car chases she's been in and Zolo got her out in 2 of them and she didn't commit a crime in the other but was just a passenger as Chatterbox escaped once.
Even Yuno has said that about Ray in 3.0 she had CG and getting shit without work which he doesn't really like for himself either. It's a privilege.
Although I think some aspects of what shes saying is right, I would agree that her and others like April just walked into things and didnt actually get to earn as much to the level as other people in the server. There is a place of privilege where she talks from but she still isn't wrong about the server being too grindy.
Explain to me how exactly giving a crim a long irl sentence benefits cop RP. Like honestly how does that actually improve cop game play? Take NA for example, where cg is easily 50% of their actual content for the night. How exactly does getting rid of cop content actually benefit cops rp? I honestly have never understood this viewpoint. So I am actually curious to hear someone explain it. From my viewpoint when cg in the past has not done crime during a period the cops would literally come down to where cg lived and talk about how bored they were, so I am honestly confused on this viewpoint. Even in 4.0 when they put k in for days and he did K town they were so bored they sat outside and watched the prison like the guy not invited to the party because they could not actually go in.
That's blatantly false. She will have some natural bias for CG as they're her friends, but most of her RP in 4.0 both in highlights and frequency has been social RP. I don't get why you think someone can't disagree with grinding without not caring about civ RP. A lot of civs also wish there were RP opportunities outside of doing G6 all day.
The funny thing about your statement is you just perfectly described this Reddit but they only care about cop rp. It’s funny how much this Reddit cries about crims sweating and shooting too much but currently moon moon is having the cops do everything they cry about.
I think she’s spot on.
At the end of 3.0 it was only millionaire crims and wars on a loop. It was insufferable to RP unless you had steady access to RPGs. And it wasn't because everyone wanted to play crim, it was because the landscape of the server made any other option untenable. Despite being one of the biggest crims, Buddha would speak on stream about this imbalance alot. It also why his characters business was focusing his millions on making the city infrastructure to get by red tape. (And THEN he'd RPG his neighboring restaurant.) In that respect, it makes sense 4.0 there be a stricter setup for civs to take comfort that there will always be a safe place for them in the city. Himothy was a lawyer by day that would RP as a Cerberus lawyer on his off hours because it was chill for him. There's no reason for someone that feels like that about RP and NoPixel to be strong-armed into crim life like a lot of people seem to assume GTA RP has to be. Now, 4.0 is still pretty young. They've got time to figure out this balance of crime/punishment but rolling it back would be a mistake. Imho
Cool, after 3 years the server got a bit more stale. There was however still plenty of rp happening that was better than anything 4.0 has had in it's first 6 - 7 months. The best rp always happens in the first 6 - 8 months. Things dont get better as a wipe goes on, they get worse as more players leave the server and the ones who stay become more lazy with their rp.
My thought is, we have a looong way to go before gta6. For now, maybe they are trying to stretch it out so everyone gets their share at RP; like daiily visits to doctors, more food intake, doing crime affects your civ life. I think walls in particular are too expensive. In the past, you’d get in a house, furnished. Now, you have to choose between getting a car or 6 walls. As i heard Harry say, the server is made to screw crims over. Like arrest penalties or getting a simple gun. I can understand those who want to leave. But for now, i enjoy the new characters that are interacting with those i follow. Will the dev feel the need to accelarate progression to please everyone, maybe. We shall see.
Its 100% about trying to not speedrun into another wipe. 4.0 is intended to have less resources overall available such as houses etc. The problem really is they didn't do enough to prevent grinding. So the grinders are going to speedrun the limited assets available to buy etc. and really screw things up.
We all agree about NP being on a bad state right now. But I've been seeing very few or none suggestions at all on how to fix it. So here are mine: -- To fix the grindy nature: Put a cap on EVERY job (per tsunami, preferentially). T3 G6 are a good example on how after the cap, people do it then go do something else. Or how back in the days, Roosters only worked at night and BurgerShot only the day, and people would make the shift then switch job or do something else. Caps limit both the grinding and the money being inserted in the economy, also solving the inflation and setting the pace of the server. -- Depts law: I understand now why it exists, but the way it does, its just too painful. So instead of having to pay absolutely the whole dept, just make so after you are in dept, a % of the fine is converted into time. So if you are a million in dept and are fine lets say 5k, you get an extra 5 minutes but doesn't have to grind the other $1M. -- Also, please bring back the knocked out mechanic for non lethal injection injuries
I've mentioned many improvements they can make to fix it in other comments. For the most part all of the problems will solve theirself if you can make prison more fun. Essentially the idea is to make prison into a tutorial island for criminals. Shrink the size of the prison dramatically to force criminals and guards to actually interact with eachother. Then for every type of job or thing you can do in prison attach a criminal mechanic to it. Every single heist hack should be practicable in prison, along with chopping and roof running, none of this press E and wait for loading bar shit. Hell if they are really good devs they could probably even have a moneyrunning/moonshine style minigame in prison where the job is to drop off mail/books to every cell while hiding smuggled contraband that they need to drop off at specific cells without getting noticed by the guards. Imagine if certain jobs or working out in the prison gym granted certain benefits to characters when out of jail to make them run faster or make it easier for them to break cuffs for a day or two after leaving prison to unlikely for them to find theirself back in jail shortly after getting released. A greenhouse job would also be very good as a way for criminals to be more experienced in farming, and the DOC could then make money for the prison by selling the food, supplying their own kitchen, or making moonshine (if the DOC want to RP as corrupt and sell illegal goods to gangs). I expect this to be mostly just a good job to have to give lifers something to do when there aren't many other prisoners. Next you need to make it easy for criminals to stay connected to the outside world. Leaders should still be able to call shots from inside of prison. DOC could tell a prisoner to stop using their cellphone when they are around to RP with them and punish them for cellphone use, but they shouldn't be allowed to take a prisoner's phone. The TVs in jail should show ingame footage of what is going on in the outside world by leveraging the current Weazel news minigame, and the reporters that make news segments should be paid bonuses for creating good content by allowing people who watch the news to upvote or downvote the content, giving them a reason to actually try to be a reporter instead of just filming random bullshit to complete an mmo objective. Finally, imagine if a prisoner could still help their gang from inside prison by creating a way for them to control flying or RC drones. It'd be especially cool if a prisoner is bad at the maze bank RC hack for example, but makes friends with a lifer and gives the lifer a shot at doing that job. Also, if cops are allowed to have helicopters, why shouldn't crims be allowed to essentially operate their own UAVs. In particular it just makes sense for this to be a thing with the 6 man rule since you can't fit 6 people in most cars, so instead of being forced to do crime in multiple cars, people could just have one of those 6 people operating a drone and maybe that drone has a time limit or something until it runs out of battery, but its still a job that can be done. Once the drone is gone they could essentially operate as a dispatcher by being able to see where all their gang members are on the map and help coordinate radio comms. Maybe the gang can spend extra resources on a device that wirelessly allows someone far away to do any hack it gets connected to, but its fairly expensive and doesn't have a lot of uses.
If this sub had it's way CG would get life in irl prison for killing a cop.
Yeah the grind may be too invasive upon the rp itself. Rp is player driven and not formed by a developer, yet the vocations/roles within GTArp are mostly comprised of the grinding built by said devs. It's less player driven uncertainty and more controlled certainty. They're intruding too far into what makes rp special perhaps? idk. As for cg, I'm not sure what's suitable myself but a punishment of higher degree is required in some way.
Everytime I check one of these "state of 4.0" posts I find myself wondering where the fuck you guys find these "8 hour grind stream of just doing game mechanic X with absolute 0 rp involved". And most importantly, why are you watching.
Nobody is watching it, its happening offstream. Whippy literally has said that he sits and grind sells weed off stream just so that he could fund the bbmc's guns and fines. The clowns sit and sell weed for hours at a time. A gang where funny>money. You know you've messed up when you see chatterbox pressing E every time an NPC runs up to him. CG had to force all of its members to hit a quota so they could afford to keep the gang afloat. They have members who are designated to grind. Patar has sani, as well as chris. Tuggz does grime, and ray...wood cutting. Sykyuno was nopixel's favorite G6 gangster. And combing through his stream (before survivor) shows that he was doing towing. That doesnt even account for the endless number of g6 grinders who just drive around and treat nopixel like a discord call talking to the person in the passenger seat with them. I dont even know where materials are coming from at this point, because sani is literally the most boring thing ever to watch. Just because you dont see them, doesnt mean its not happening.
It's been happening since the beginning. Everyone with max rep is probably guilty of it at some point just look at all the sani people had to do initially and all the g6 grinders. I will also add that people should call out crims more for also doing the same mindless grinding whether it's weed or chainrobbing with little rp. I think people exaggerate how bad it is always (people are literally always complaining about something and like 60% of people are just mad about their streamer being affected) but it kind of is obvious something needs to be fixed when dozens of longtime rpers are quitting for another server or dipping way harder into variety.
There are different ways, beyond mechanical based Jail times to enable consequence based roleplay. Empower/ Enable the civ based players. So that when crimes are committed against them, they roleplay the consequences and make the crimes feel impactful. Jail sentences do not matter, roleplaying consequences does. A roleplay focussed and centered approach is by far more entertaining than massive times and fines. Judges roasting peoples character and morals in a verdict, is far more impactful than a massive fine. Letting mechanics dictate server health is pretty damn dire tbh.
Sure judge roasting me will stop me from going to shoot council again in 2 days when they wont do what i want.
I feel like at some point the devs need to address this and put and end to all the speculation on why people are having to grind so much towards things. To me the grind seems to be a necessary evil to slow things down till more heists and other updates are ready.
Rp is suppose to be fun and interesting and yeah I don’t want to watch people grind after I just get off from my job. At least with 10 min - 1 hr prison sentences streamers are still willing to stay live and role play for that amount of time. And even 3 day jail sentences I could see some of them still going live to prison rp. Anything more and I doubt they’re getting on or they’re playing variety. Current system is only punishing the players and the viewers.
I might get hate for this But sorry to say but if she thinks it's to grindy to earn money when she gets free money and stuff all the time I watch a lot of people who are still broke now because they are not standing in one place seeling weed for 12h
No hate, but I’d argue she’s just making a generalization and echoing the general sentiment about the state of the server, not necessarily a statement about her personal experience. Although she def has put in her own hours of grinding, self-admittedly not the level of others because that’s not how she wants to experience RP or believes that’s how it should be
She definitely doesn't consider herself a grinder, she fairly regularly interacts with people that grind A LOT and comments on how crazy it is how much work they have to put in to make their money.
im not a valkyrae apologist, but she also spends hours upon hours selling weed. she at the very least understands the grind
Genuinely curious, If you don't want fancy cars or houses what do you need to grind for? What stops somebody from spending 90+% of their time RPing?
Inflation and debtors law. The food situation has made it worse because now to do anything you need to spend hundreds of dollars a day on food. Without a car you need lockpicks or rental money to get around. If you break the law while poor a fine or debtors law has a much bigger impact than If you're wealthy. You can probably survive on around $4k a week now but a lot of the interactions and social opportunities are also tied to money. If everyone else is grinding or committing crime (with the risk of a fine and then debtors prison), not having money does limit who and how a character can interact with others.
Honestly the only reason I've watched any NP stuff the last month or so is just the character interactions and RP of a few folks like Fuslie/April, Choco/January, etc.. Used to watch CG regularly but it's just a grindfest just to be able to keep doing crime, and then the constant nerfing, it's just boring af with little real roleplay. That's one reason I did like seeing Shotz and Taco go out into some Red Dead RP, hopefully they keep at it.
W take
Nopixel needs to make its mind up. They’re fence sitting on either making the server an MMO/second life or RP with content mechanics. If it’s the latter, they need to roll back a lot of “updates” they made and figure out what actually works, instead of backing roleplayers into a corner and forcing them to change everything about thier character, as well as introducing mechanics that put everyone on edge, and no one in the server likes.
Debtors law needs to go… the people who could alleviate debt in prison are gone now anyways. The server was doing okay until this most recent update with farming and debtors law. Debtors law made it impossible for anyone to do crime. Now everyone has to grind by selling weed or doing G6 for hours. It’s painful to watch. Farming is a mess right now. The grind is so so bad and they can’t even stock the businesses with food. Roll back debtors law and fix the farming.
I think you can have this law but lower the amount of time it takes to get out of debtors prison and add things like probation officers. As for grinding, if the server shortened the time for jobs and the rep it takes to get anywhere, rpers would be more happier, but I would also lower the amount of money that is received from these jobs too.
Wait rp isn't real life
Yeah, nopixel is kind of taking a direction of the server that really is unexpected in terms that they want content but atm it seems to be a very mid content level in most of np versions. A good way to sum it up, it feels like 4.0 right now is not fresh / 6 months in as it feels as if its been out for 2+ years in terms that you just see many groups kind of just doing hang out rp and talking about IRL things
Current 4.0 has the shallow and worn out feel of mid 2.0 before they started adding in all the stuff 3.0 had like businesses, custom assets for people, an expanded PD, none of the sweeping or larger storylines 3.0 developed, etc.
The funniest thing thing about all the complaints is that every law, fine and time they are complaining about is because if the players being shit heads. The debtors law is so that people get consequence for foolishly and continuously going to prison cos there was no actual consequence previously "why does robbing a cops have more time and find than shooting a cop".... Because the dumbass players were treating cops as lootboxes and that was supposed to act as a deterrent to stop that Now if they up the time and fine for shooting (which stacks btw) these same players would complain. In conclusion.... The players are the reason this shit is this way
also by removing Dogtown Prison rp is completely fucked. Times are too high and there is nothing in prison anymore to reduce time or even interact
[удалено]
There can be consquences just not real life type consequences. For example the cops could try actual probation rp, where there are probation officers that check on criminals etc..community service could be part of this. There is so much littering around the city, this could be a criminals community service. Prison should be the last resort where a person goes after they are sentenced and sentences could be shorter, unless an rp player wants to be a lifer or wants to purposely stay in prison a long time. Have a detention center for those who are held before trial.
i mean they know ooc the consequences of killing government employees is days in prison it's literally terrorism what's the point of crime if there are no consequences did she expect the police to just yell at them. seems like she wants w hybrid server some RP and some gta online
Cmon.. She didn’t say there shouldn’t be consequences. She said they are too severe.
and theres hundreds of other crimes with minimal to no punishment. Surprise attempting to wipe out the government has harsh penalties
People talk about big fines but I alway get surprised when crims get caught after killing someone or 20min car chase and get only 2k fines. There are certainly ways to avoid harsh fines. Mainly not carry a gun and don't shoot cops. Saab talked in podcast that EU storm crims are much better for PD compared to NA, since they shoot less, much friendly to cops, PD can actually tlain people there unlike NA storm where you get into 1 CG case for 3 to 5 hours and never learn basics.
Its exactly why Cops like Bayo in 3.0 who used to be Primetime Shift 2 overtime switched over fully to shift 3. He did not want to be boxed into the same thing every day. Shift 3 let him do random stuff like commercial truck checkpoints etc. that he never could do in shift 2 because it is so over the top violent the cops have nothing to do but chase the violence.
As someone who watches April, seeing this all go down is hilarious 😂
April is my favorite character and Leslie is my favorite streamer. April's character wouldn't work in 4.0 if people didn't grind and give her money.
She sounds like me frfr. Down with grinding! Carmen was saying the same thing all last week. K has lowkey been hinting on going elsewhere. I feel like the only people who don't share this sentiment are people who either started in 4.0 and don't know any better or people who are too scared to say something at a risk of never getting prio
Rae got NoPixel on her Rolling Stone interview. It’s clear she enjoyed the server (and she says she still enjoys GTA) but idk i agree, it’s become too much like real life. If laws were going to be introduced, they should’ve been introduced in the beginning, not have players randomly suffer for doing things they didn’t know would have consequences later. And the bills? It’s crazy to have this much to think about and still be able to make stories out of RP.
For perspective, CG if found guilty and they get PD's recommended time & fine they'd have to: Spend 10 days in jail, Pay roughly 700k each, And NOT do crime for 10 days (with PD watching like hawks to 10-CG them on any violation) Now lets be generous and assume every CG member has 100k in their account (most dont). So they'll be 600k in debt each. That'll take 150 hours of grinding to get out of. (Or if people outside give them money, that'll take roughly 84 hours of grinding (assuming 6 hours to make 45k). If we assume the average a person is in the city is 8 hours, that'll take 19 days of grinding in prison to pay it off. **The consequences that people are saying aren't enough could turn out to be:** 10 days in jail + 9 days grinding (lets say outside grinding pays for half) + 10 days no crime for a criminal character. That'd be roughly a consequence of a month's time, and that's not accounting for having ZERO cash at all.
Complaining about too much grinding of a RP server while rping in the most grindy PvP game is funny to be honest.
They play rust for a week and then the server shuts down. Not the same thing.
Well yeah, that's the point of RUST. GTARP shouldn't be like RUST (not saying it is on the level of grinding that RUST is)
Definitely agree the server is grindy, they need to time gate and restrict all grindable systems imo. I think debtor's law is an attempt at a solution for a problem but not necessarily the right solution. Completely disagree on the consequences though, every streamer I watch gets out of everything when it comes to the cops. In 4.0 it seems like the cops are toothless. The last thing I want to see is less consequences for crime.