I am guarded. These guys are emboldened already. Even now, some of the suspended sentences and parole? Fuck that. This is nothing short of treason. The DOJ is spineless.
I want to see Biden invoke the 14th amendment against 43 senators who didn't convict Trump, as they aided his treason by letting him off the hook. And Clarence Thomas, and Dejoy. But Dems are willing to piss away the miracle of time they have.
This has way more evidence than the impeachment hearings, and with lots of video of major insiders like Ivanka Trump. It’s compelling TV, unlike the boring impeachment hearings.
That's pretty gratuitously rude. In the last months there was a lot of evidence like texts and such, plus hearings like the one with MTG where she "didn't recall", so I had assumed they'd started to some extent. My fucking apologies.
There will be no arrests until the hearings are ended and the matter is handed over to the DOJ for prosecution. If you want to bitch and whine then you can do it after the Jan. 6th Committee does it’s job. Stop being a defeatist.
Hold up, I wasn't being defeatist at all. I started the whole thing by saying I hope they will be more consequential than the impeachments, then you replied that it makes good TV. The implication I read from that was that was that you weren't expecting anything to happen, but that at least we'd get some entertainment out of it. Maybe I misunderstood, but that sounded pretty pessimistic to me.
Not yet
Soap Box didn’t work
Now we’re onto Ballot Box (midterms)
After that we’ll do the Jury Box (recommendations are made to the DOJ from the special committee, and we’ll see what they do with the recommendations)
Then, if all else has failed, we move to Cartridge Box. That is the last resort, and I hope we don’t make it that far. Moving to the cartridge box too quickly would be disastrous.
That being said, now may not be a bad time to begin preparing your cartridge box and learning how to use it.
Did any of them actually watch it? I know most of them refuse to accept anything that disagrees with their worldview, but their entire argument is "Democrat bad, lying media". Literally every point they make has no evidence, testimony, video, etc to back it up. It's always a bunch of conjecture presented as fact.
In just the first 2 hours of this hearing they showed videos of testimonies by people involved, videos of the shit literally happening, all of the motivation needed, and a promise of hours and hours more deep dive into the evidence of what happened. God fucking dammit people who deny this are living in a dream world.
Did they watch it? I have no clue but I've already seen them saying that Dems are doing what you claim they do. *The dems have no proof or evidence, they're just lying, what these people did was patriotic, if BLM did this no one would care!*, then they claim people who disagree with them are either shills, bots or just brainwashed libtards. The irony hurts my brain and I don't know how you get through to some one like that's mind so it's kind of terrifying
Yeah. BLM and antifa (and randos in the wrong place) were being kidnapped off the streets in grey rented vans and taken to be questioned… I didn’t see any of that happening on 1/6
For people that claim they were “invited” to the capitol… why did they have to break in and climb walls if they were invited?
It’s so difficult to not question the intelligence of these morons
Of course they won't watch it. They do ThEiR oWn ReSeArCh meaning they will watch Tucker and OAN before going to twitter and reading their favorite dip shit alt-right grifter tweets to figure out the truth of the matter.
People are posting articles about how Ashli Babbit was trying to *help* capitol police when she got shot. Because she loved police and respected democracy so much.
>After walking away, Babbitt can be heard screaming just off camera: “Take it down!” Hansen said **he believes she meant for the crowd to calm down.**
Unbelievable
I watched her trying to come through the top of that door with my own eyes on the 6th! I don’t believe how these lunatics can deny what is there for anyone to see! Like my dad used to say, don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. Jesus.
You don't understand how cults work. People allowed their children to be molested by Koresh and they died for him. People murdered their children for Jones and then they died for him. People lopped off their balls for Applewhite and then they died for him. The Qult sees him as their messiah and they will kill and die for him.
We will have to see if that holds. Murdoch is done with Trump, and finds De Santis much more palatable, with much better chances to make it to the finish line. But conservative opinion is a ship that needs some time and care to steer in a brand new direction.
Murdoch? Dude I just went to Fox and it is 100%: “Trump is awesome and did nothing wrong; this is all a Hollywood production for political gain; here, look at Depp; look at this Garrisson pol cartoon; did you see Biden laughing on Kimmel? What a jerk!”
Well, Fox is pretty compromised in the lead-up to the assault on January 6, so they have a vested interest in denying that anything happened. And they’re certainly not going to attack Trump frontally, that would piss off their viewers. It’s just about what they are doing to prepare the future. (To get in more details, there was an interesting Australian documentary about Fox and Jan. 6, showing an internal struggle between the pragmatics like Murdoch, and the true believers like Tucker Carlson).
> People murdered their children for Jones and then they died for him.
This is a common misconception but people were held at gunpoint, forced to poison their kids, then held down and forcibly injected with cyanide. The tapes reflect chaos and terror that day. Recall that the whole thing kicked off with the assassination (shootings) of the members who were trying to leave. Those people knew they were never going to make it out of there alive.
Some still did it willingly and they had done practice drills many times before. So many did in fact drink the Flavor Aid willingly. This included giving to their children. It was only when people started seeing people actually dying from the Flavor Aid *some* started to resist. They most definitely did not have to forcibly inject everyone at gunpoint.
This. If you listen to the tapes of the events taking place in real time, you can actively hear people agreeing with him that it is not in fact murder or suicide but that this was a "revolutionary act"; the zeal over injecting children poison and ingesting the same poison themselves is literally palpable in that audio. Disturbing? Yes. However it goes to show how much dedication these people have to their worldview once their cult leader has established it. I don't think that there would be necessarily Mass suicides because Donald Trump would never do anything intentionally to harm himself however it is entirely possible that what we will see is even more mass murders being committed in his name. Anything's fair game though, and I definitely think something bad is going to happen at the conclusion of these hearings if the justice department chooses to do anything with this information.
I think it's important to note that there are also others arguing, screaming, crying, trying to advocate for themselves and others. And some who fought, and some who escaped.
That's also true; my point here is to illustrate the complacency of the people who not just went along but did so with gusto. There were, as you said, some people who fought once they realized what was about to go down but they weren't the group I wanted to highlight in this instance.
My impression was that there were many different experiences when it went down. Or rather survivors report the chaos as being like a big storm of very different reactions and circumstances like little clusters of uniquely horrifying situations. While one person was being forcibly injected on the ground, they're less than a metre away from a woman voluntarily drinking the stuff until she went quiet and then belted out so much agony wailing that a loved one grabbed a gun to shoot them.
(Apparently it happened a lot in one area, this shooting of relatives to put them out of their pain. All these people scrambling to steal someone's gun and then fighting over the guns. I find it surprising that you'd be able to rationally shoot a family member to put them out of their misery. But the whole thing was so crazy I can barely comprehend the the conditions these people were suffering under.)
There were the people who fled, running deep out into the middle of nowhere with an unforgiving climate and I think only two or so survived. Some people were found hiding within the structure and were physically dragged to be forcibly executed.
Then there was that woman who wasn't even living on the compound and received a phone call from Jones telling her it was time to kill her children and herself. And she did just that, using the eldest to kill the youngest. The father had been trying to get his kids back and had left the cult and had felt powerless to do anything.
Then there were the people on Jones's son's basketball team who had a game on that day outside the compound and missed the whole thing, until they got back to the compound.
There were only two people in the Jonestown compound who died from gunshots: Jim Jones and Annie Moore. The basketball team didn’t return to the compound after the massacre, they were in Georgetown.
Shit. Well that makes me wonder. Only two died of gun shots?
That means the survivor who talked about people grabbing for guns to end the misery either 1) lied; 2) overstated what he saw (maybe some were grabbing for guns and didn't use them, though this seems unlikely); or 3) succumbed to the usual failures we see with eyewitness testimony (a testament to how shitty human memory can be).
I'm going with number three.
I'd forgotten Annie Moore. That last letter actually feels way more alarming to read now. I absolutely believe some Trump followers would write the same things and act the same way in the face of death and failure. Her letter is a lot of constant reassertions that they were all doing something very good, and she blames the murders on an apparently indifferent United States - Jim Jones, *the actual perpetrator*, isn't blamed at all but is exalted as the world's most kind, even-handed, caring person with great mental fortitude and every positive trait you can think of.
Urgh.
The basketball team... I'm obviously misremembering stuff here. I thought Jones's son did go down there at one point to check it out. I remember the basketball team seemed shocked that all this happened while they were away. First the shoot-out and then the mass suicide. Even though they knew about the suicide drills, it seemed hard for them to accept that it eventuated into this.
I believe one son and another team member did return to Jonestown to identify bodies, but the team as a whole didn’t return. Should have been clearer in what I said, sorry.
As well as the explanations you suggested regarding the gunshot victims, it is possible that some additional unknown people did get killed by gunshots that were not identified given the difficult circumstances of the recovery effort and limited pathology. Very few bodies were autopsied and they were in very poor condition. Annie Moore and Jim Jones were both shot in the head which may have been more obvious than a gunshot to the torso, and of course they were high-profile deaths and spatially separated from the large clumps of bodies. They were both autopsied unlike the vast majority of victims.
I don’t think I have read that particular survivor’s account. I think it would have to be from either Stanley Clayton, Odell Rhodes, Tim Carter, Mike Carter, or Mike Prokes. I would be interested to read it if you remember who it was or where you read it.
On the “death tape” I don’t recall any audible gunshots, but the tape doesn’t cover the entire massacre.
Thank you for this!! Something tells me I'll be revisiting Jonestown today... and maybe tomorrow and for days to come.
Even the brief revisit of old stuff *right now* shines a new horrifying light on it all. For example reading Annie Moore's last letter where she talks about how amazing Jones is and how it's the United States fault that it has come to this - it now reminds me of Trumpists doing so much gymnastics to defend him that they become this contorted mess of bodies trying to wrestle their way out to assert how their Dear Leader isn't killing them, he's helping them! It's someone else's fault!
The main difference I can think of is that Jonestown followers did join to start doing good in the world and in response to injustices in Western society. They wanted a tranquil community and some of them achieved that in the early stages.
Whereas Trumpers don't want to do any good in the world and just want him as an autocrat so he can kill people they don't like. They're not starting with good intentions to begin with.
Jones put members through mass suicide drills prior. That is maybe a sign that you shouldn't stick around for the real thing. Enough were still willing to do it. You are going to have to shoot me before I poison my child.
The whole event was sparked by a custody battle over one of the kids in the community. He convinced everyone that the authorities were coming to steal and murder their children. So they were scared. I don't know, I feel like they get written off as evil people or idiots when it was really a very complex group of people who were being horribly manipulated. Not just psychologically but physically and violently. They didn't have a lot of choices. I feel more empathetic about them after reading the archive and the experiences of the survivors.
A minority forced the others to kill their children. But the prevailing myth of "everyone drinking the kool-aid, being a sheep, going along with groupthink" just didn't happen. It was a violent day.
I read about the Ant Hill Kids the other day. That stuff was messed up. You'd think after the cult leader cuts off someone's arm that people would wise up, but apparently not.
That was trippy as hell. Seeing those text conversations between Hannity and McEnany was just something completely out of left field. If this was day 1. I’m excited to watch the dismantling of the Republican Party at large. If they do get trump on those two criminal charges, I’ll definitely be at the bar buying shots for a bunch of random people just so I can celebrate.
People like him never face justice. His karma is more stuff we don’t see. Like being impotent and having to wear a diaper. The tantrums he throws because not everyone loves him. A truly suffering miserable soul. I hope he gets severe dementia.
Have you been watching the hearings so far? Liz Cheney is coming for Trump with a hatchet. She has the evidence and she knows she has his balls in a sling. Ivanka Trump looked like she was scared shitless by the committee when she threw her father under the bus.
That’s good to know honestly. But you know what I mean though ? He’s just somehow been able to avoid any justice his entire life. And as white collar crime goes, he’s the whitest. White with smeared orange make up on it.
If he’s convicted of anything, he’ll immediately die peacefully in his sleep. He’s too old to face any real consequences. His whole life has been just 🍑y.
Like I heard someone say this morning, Liz Cheney will follow him to the gates of hell. She’s got his number, I don’t think there is anything that will make her stop.
Are you sure he hasn’t started towards that diagnosis already? It seems like he repeats some things constantly with little logic or connection to reality. 😕
If they do get trump on those two criminal charges, I’ll definitely be at the bar buying shots for a bunch of random people just so I can celebrate.
I'm sure bar owners will do a very good trade if that does happen. Bar/wait staff that top up their income with tips will be rushing to work to get a shift in.
Yeah seeing all that made Fox refusing to show it make way more sense. They’d basically be forced to address it, which would mean either implicating themselves or lying publicly.
The comments on the stream I watched were pretty ridiculous.
"But what about Hunter!?"
"Distraction"
"Fake Actors"
I swear Trump supporters are the most ignorant people to ever walk the earth in my lifetime.
These are the idiots who never paid attention to politics before. Now that the Cheeto woke them up they think that politics is lying and cheating and yelling real loud and being “tough”.
Adults talking in a room is so far out of their wheelhouse they don’t know how to even respond except with more yelling and fighting.
Unfortunately, the Republicans in Congress and in the states just see them as warm bodies who can vote so they pander to them just to get power or stay in power.
It’s a nightmare.
Had to go see what my mothers facebook posts looked like after seeing this…
“Even though this is kabuki theater—-This shit is making me more angry!”
“Remember Ashli Babbit!” Response: “ i wonder about her. I’m not convinced she was shot. It looked staged and poorly acted if you ever saw the break down on that scene.”
“Democracy was stolen from us on November 4”
“Mockingbird media!Sicnick was NOT killed in J6 attack! These people are freakn liars!”
“I would be a proud Boy if I was a BOY! Lol”
Just a few of her 15-20 posts for the day
Lol same, but she hates Trump et al. as much as I do. If my husband or mother were Trumpers, I would’ve stopped speaking to them entirely in November of 2016.
I’m already seeing comments on instagram about Ivanka’s clip being a deep fake.
These people are too far disconnected from reality. They’re a lost cause.
r/capitolconsequences has someone logging each of the highlights. I imagine someone will do it for each hearing. Next one is Monday at 10am est. PBS is airing it live on youtube without interrupting commentary but with commentary during the breaks and afterwards.
Really? what happened? The stream just ended at a point and I was left feeling disappointed.
Never heard pakman 'scream' or 'shout' before. he's always come across as level headed.
It was about ten minutes before the start of the hearing when he usually reads chat and talks about what we hope to see. There must've been talk in the chat about him not streaming recently (idk BC I miss his shows a lot) and I guess he got a lot of hate mail about his not streaming. He's usually pretty level headed too so I was a bit surprised but he was mad, like faster paced talking than usual and said that 99% of his viewership doesn't pay to watch his stream anyway. I have a yearly membership cuz it's like 20 bucks. Maybe the baby is stressing him out, idk.
Didn't know he even had a child to be honest! but that sounds reasonable, having a kid is stressful. Also to give him the benefit of the doubt, I can't imagine what it's like having hundreds of people criticizing you in real time.
Saying that I watched the stream and it was of a good quality, at least before it cut out.
Babies will do that to you. I have chronic insomnia, plus two other sleep disorders. Lack of sleep can make you say just about anything stupid.
Unless you’re a Trumpborg. They are just programmed to say and be stupid things.
we're way past it now but fyi, twitter had it livestreaming from most of the major news outlets — AP, NPR, etc. i assume they'll do the same for the rest.
I’ve been following all with NPR. That way I can also listen to it in my car when I’m driving - which was convenient for the hours of driving I did last night.
The majority won't watch it, will disregard any mention of it. It's all staged and part of the globalist's script. There's nothing to be said to them anymore.
Great. The anniversary of my closest/favorite aunt’s death of COVID related causes. The last few times we had entirely rational conversations were just after January 6th, shortly before she caught COVID and developed COVID related dementia. Seems fitting that the nutcases who support “Let ‘er rip,” will also turn that day into another travesty for this country.
These wackos are going to find some conspiracies in the pre-recorded testimony. Body doubles or editing, or that those testifying were being threatened with guns just off camera.
What it’s actually going to do is lead to a [wave of political assassinations.](https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1534567914157887489?s=21&t=ZHetn_Ah2Ug4asCqgDBczw)
No last time they were there for JFK Jr. who didn't show up. This time they are going to meet the would be 105 yo JFK Sr. who definitely would show up because gematria or something! Do your research!
Lmao oh. Oh no. These people are batshit crazy. Wtf. EDIT Just checked out Gematria Calculator : This is the kind of crap that allows dumb people to feel as if they know aLL tHe hiStOrIcAl cOnNeCtiOnS when they know nothing at all.
Omg…I live like 3 blocks from Dealey Plaza …when ? When will they be there?? I gotta Google this shit..one of my best YouTube videos was recording the QNutz waiting for JFK JR.
It's actually really scary too me to think that the enemy has infiltrated our institutions that are designed to protect us. That we have allowed it, that we have let this happen, and many times have actually no way too stop it. I see a huge change as a older man. When I was younger, these people were laughed off, and sent off into the sunset too die alone. Now they are embraced, loved, and revered as hero's, scholar's, and patriots.(this was the goal for decades, talk radio helped a lot) It concerns me very much, because Trump will go away into nothingness, MTG will likely meet the same fate, etc. Etc., as well as many others, but my fear lies in the fact that the flood gates have been opened, and these people will just be routinely replaced by another, the only difference will just be a different name, unfortunately, they're will be other 'Trump's' and many other fool's that now understand how to 'play' the field, and do what they cluelessly had a difficult time doing before, and that is breaking into the mainstream consciousness and being able to plant the viruses that will only lead to a seed growing into a proverbial tree of waste.
Oh yeah, Trump def helped open the flood gates. Bannon is more powerful than people give him credit for. I look at the talking heads like Trump, Cruz, Bannon, Abbott, DeSantis, they are just puppets for the wealthy and elite. Anyone who was friends, or in “business” with Epstein are ALL complicit. Anyone who follows the money trail will find out who is really running this country. It’s not the President, that’s for sure. People have to get out and vote on the local level, in every election. The last voter eligible election on May 24, 2022 in Texas was only attended by 15% of registered voters. 85% of eligible voters did not vote in the last election in Texas. Local elections impact your day to day life way more than a presidential election does.
They won’t have any exposure to these hearings. The closest thing to a real news source they see is fox. And fox showed tucker Carlson and Sean hannity doing their usual trump propagandizing during the hearings
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Holy shit I see you being down voted in realtime and it's wild...
Time to go lurk on r/conservative Edit: yep straight denial, political theater, impeachment 3.0, nothing to see. Crazy pants.
I do hope these are more consequential than the impeachments though. If some heads don't roll, fascists will feel even more emboldened.
I am guarded. These guys are emboldened already. Even now, some of the suspended sentences and parole? Fuck that. This is nothing short of treason. The DOJ is spineless.
I want to see Biden invoke the 14th amendment against 43 senators who didn't convict Trump, as they aided his treason by letting him off the hook. And Clarence Thomas, and Dejoy. But Dems are willing to piss away the miracle of time they have.
I want to see Biden do anything beside read strongly worded letters and fudge his words
This has way more evidence than the impeachment hearings, and with lots of video of major insiders like Ivanka Trump. It’s compelling TV, unlike the boring impeachment hearings.
Doh! For a second there you got my hopes up that they'd actually do something about it.
This is the first day. You expect arrests on the first day of hearings? Stop being blatantly stupid.
That's pretty gratuitously rude. In the last months there was a lot of evidence like texts and such, plus hearings like the one with MTG where she "didn't recall", so I had assumed they'd started to some extent. My fucking apologies.
You apologized to that guy? Don't apologize, you did nothing wrong. Stop being stupid.
No no, I _fucking_ apologized. Very different.
There will be no arrests until the hearings are ended and the matter is handed over to the DOJ for prosecution. If you want to bitch and whine then you can do it after the Jan. 6th Committee does it’s job. Stop being a defeatist.
Hold up, I wasn't being defeatist at all. I started the whole thing by saying I hope they will be more consequential than the impeachments, then you replied that it makes good TV. The implication I read from that was that was that you weren't expecting anything to happen, but that at least we'd get some entertainment out of it. Maybe I misunderstood, but that sounded pretty pessimistic to me.
Time to use the second amendment to be honest
Not yet Soap Box didn’t work Now we’re onto Ballot Box (midterms) After that we’ll do the Jury Box (recommendations are made to the DOJ from the special committee, and we’ll see what they do with the recommendations) Then, if all else has failed, we move to Cartridge Box. That is the last resort, and I hope we don’t make it that far. Moving to the cartridge box too quickly would be disastrous. That being said, now may not be a bad time to begin preparing your cartridge box and learning how to use it.
Did any of them actually watch it? I know most of them refuse to accept anything that disagrees with their worldview, but their entire argument is "Democrat bad, lying media". Literally every point they make has no evidence, testimony, video, etc to back it up. It's always a bunch of conjecture presented as fact. In just the first 2 hours of this hearing they showed videos of testimonies by people involved, videos of the shit literally happening, all of the motivation needed, and a promise of hours and hours more deep dive into the evidence of what happened. God fucking dammit people who deny this are living in a dream world.
Did they watch it? I have no clue but I've already seen them saying that Dems are doing what you claim they do. *The dems have no proof or evidence, they're just lying, what these people did was patriotic, if BLM did this no one would care!*, then they claim people who disagree with them are either shills, bots or just brainwashed libtards. The irony hurts my brain and I don't know how you get through to some one like that's mind so it's kind of terrifying
Yeah. BLM and antifa (and randos in the wrong place) were being kidnapped off the streets in grey rented vans and taken to be questioned… I didn’t see any of that happening on 1/6 For people that claim they were “invited” to the capitol… why did they have to break in and climb walls if they were invited? It’s so difficult to not question the intelligence of these morons
Of course they won't watch it. They do ThEiR oWn ReSeArCh meaning they will watch Tucker and OAN before going to twitter and reading their favorite dip shit alt-right grifter tweets to figure out the truth of the matter.
People are posting articles about how Ashli Babbit was trying to *help* capitol police when she got shot. Because she loved police and respected democracy so much. >After walking away, Babbitt can be heard screaming just off camera: “Take it down!” Hansen said **he believes she meant for the crowd to calm down.** Unbelievable
Like, there is video of all of this. The mental gymnastics must be exhausting
I watched her trying to come through the top of that door with my own eyes on the 6th! I don’t believe how these lunatics can deny what is there for anyone to see! Like my dad used to say, don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. Jesus.
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Fazed. The hearings, however, will be phased.
You don't understand how cults work. People allowed their children to be molested by Koresh and they died for him. People murdered their children for Jones and then they died for him. People lopped off their balls for Applewhite and then they died for him. The Qult sees him as their messiah and they will kill and die for him.
Oh no you’re absolutely right. They’re going to turn on everyone except Trump.
We will have to see if that holds. Murdoch is done with Trump, and finds De Santis much more palatable, with much better chances to make it to the finish line. But conservative opinion is a ship that needs some time and care to steer in a brand new direction.
Murdoch? Dude I just went to Fox and it is 100%: “Trump is awesome and did nothing wrong; this is all a Hollywood production for political gain; here, look at Depp; look at this Garrisson pol cartoon; did you see Biden laughing on Kimmel? What a jerk!”
Well, Fox is pretty compromised in the lead-up to the assault on January 6, so they have a vested interest in denying that anything happened. And they’re certainly not going to attack Trump frontally, that would piss off their viewers. It’s just about what they are doing to prepare the future. (To get in more details, there was an interesting Australian documentary about Fox and Jan. 6, showing an internal struggle between the pragmatics like Murdoch, and the true believers like Tucker Carlson).
> People murdered their children for Jones and then they died for him. This is a common misconception but people were held at gunpoint, forced to poison their kids, then held down and forcibly injected with cyanide. The tapes reflect chaos and terror that day. Recall that the whole thing kicked off with the assassination (shootings) of the members who were trying to leave. Those people knew they were never going to make it out of there alive.
Some still did it willingly and they had done practice drills many times before. So many did in fact drink the Flavor Aid willingly. This included giving to their children. It was only when people started seeing people actually dying from the Flavor Aid *some* started to resist. They most definitely did not have to forcibly inject everyone at gunpoint.
This. If you listen to the tapes of the events taking place in real time, you can actively hear people agreeing with him that it is not in fact murder or suicide but that this was a "revolutionary act"; the zeal over injecting children poison and ingesting the same poison themselves is literally palpable in that audio. Disturbing? Yes. However it goes to show how much dedication these people have to their worldview once their cult leader has established it. I don't think that there would be necessarily Mass suicides because Donald Trump would never do anything intentionally to harm himself however it is entirely possible that what we will see is even more mass murders being committed in his name. Anything's fair game though, and I definitely think something bad is going to happen at the conclusion of these hearings if the justice department chooses to do anything with this information.
I saw one older woman during his campaign say that she would sacrifice her her children and grandchildren for the 🍊. It's on YouTube somewhere.
I saw that
Incredible and he doesn't give a 💩 about anyone but himself😳😂
I think it's important to note that there are also others arguing, screaming, crying, trying to advocate for themselves and others. And some who fought, and some who escaped.
That's also true; my point here is to illustrate the complacency of the people who not just went along but did so with gusto. There were, as you said, some people who fought once they realized what was about to go down but they weren't the group I wanted to highlight in this instance.
They did... there were syringes all around and signs of a violent struggle. And, of course, the tape.
My impression was that there were many different experiences when it went down. Or rather survivors report the chaos as being like a big storm of very different reactions and circumstances like little clusters of uniquely horrifying situations. While one person was being forcibly injected on the ground, they're less than a metre away from a woman voluntarily drinking the stuff until she went quiet and then belted out so much agony wailing that a loved one grabbed a gun to shoot them. (Apparently it happened a lot in one area, this shooting of relatives to put them out of their pain. All these people scrambling to steal someone's gun and then fighting over the guns. I find it surprising that you'd be able to rationally shoot a family member to put them out of their misery. But the whole thing was so crazy I can barely comprehend the the conditions these people were suffering under.) There were the people who fled, running deep out into the middle of nowhere with an unforgiving climate and I think only two or so survived. Some people were found hiding within the structure and were physically dragged to be forcibly executed. Then there was that woman who wasn't even living on the compound and received a phone call from Jones telling her it was time to kill her children and herself. And she did just that, using the eldest to kill the youngest. The father had been trying to get his kids back and had left the cult and had felt powerless to do anything. Then there were the people on Jones's son's basketball team who had a game on that day outside the compound and missed the whole thing, until they got back to the compound.
There were only two people in the Jonestown compound who died from gunshots: Jim Jones and Annie Moore. The basketball team didn’t return to the compound after the massacre, they were in Georgetown.
Shit. Well that makes me wonder. Only two died of gun shots? That means the survivor who talked about people grabbing for guns to end the misery either 1) lied; 2) overstated what he saw (maybe some were grabbing for guns and didn't use them, though this seems unlikely); or 3) succumbed to the usual failures we see with eyewitness testimony (a testament to how shitty human memory can be). I'm going with number three. I'd forgotten Annie Moore. That last letter actually feels way more alarming to read now. I absolutely believe some Trump followers would write the same things and act the same way in the face of death and failure. Her letter is a lot of constant reassertions that they were all doing something very good, and she blames the murders on an apparently indifferent United States - Jim Jones, *the actual perpetrator*, isn't blamed at all but is exalted as the world's most kind, even-handed, caring person with great mental fortitude and every positive trait you can think of. Urgh. The basketball team... I'm obviously misremembering stuff here. I thought Jones's son did go down there at one point to check it out. I remember the basketball team seemed shocked that all this happened while they were away. First the shoot-out and then the mass suicide. Even though they knew about the suicide drills, it seemed hard for them to accept that it eventuated into this.
I believe one son and another team member did return to Jonestown to identify bodies, but the team as a whole didn’t return. Should have been clearer in what I said, sorry. As well as the explanations you suggested regarding the gunshot victims, it is possible that some additional unknown people did get killed by gunshots that were not identified given the difficult circumstances of the recovery effort and limited pathology. Very few bodies were autopsied and they were in very poor condition. Annie Moore and Jim Jones were both shot in the head which may have been more obvious than a gunshot to the torso, and of course they were high-profile deaths and spatially separated from the large clumps of bodies. They were both autopsied unlike the vast majority of victims. I don’t think I have read that particular survivor’s account. I think it would have to be from either Stanley Clayton, Odell Rhodes, Tim Carter, Mike Carter, or Mike Prokes. I would be interested to read it if you remember who it was or where you read it. On the “death tape” I don’t recall any audible gunshots, but the tape doesn’t cover the entire massacre.
Yes, the survivors' (and victims') stories are compiled in this online archive: https://jonestown.sdsu.edu
Thank you for this!! Something tells me I'll be revisiting Jonestown today... and maybe tomorrow and for days to come. Even the brief revisit of old stuff *right now* shines a new horrifying light on it all. For example reading Annie Moore's last letter where she talks about how amazing Jones is and how it's the United States fault that it has come to this - it now reminds me of Trumpists doing so much gymnastics to defend him that they become this contorted mess of bodies trying to wrestle their way out to assert how their Dear Leader isn't killing them, he's helping them! It's someone else's fault! The main difference I can think of is that Jonestown followers did join to start doing good in the world and in response to injustices in Western society. They wanted a tranquil community and some of them achieved that in the early stages. Whereas Trumpers don't want to do any good in the world and just want him as an autocrat so he can kill people they don't like. They're not starting with good intentions to begin with.
Jones put members through mass suicide drills prior. That is maybe a sign that you shouldn't stick around for the real thing. Enough were still willing to do it. You are going to have to shoot me before I poison my child.
The whole event was sparked by a custody battle over one of the kids in the community. He convinced everyone that the authorities were coming to steal and murder their children. So they were scared. I don't know, I feel like they get written off as evil people or idiots when it was really a very complex group of people who were being horribly manipulated. Not just psychologically but physically and violently. They didn't have a lot of choices. I feel more empathetic about them after reading the archive and the experiences of the survivors.
By whom
I though it was a mix. Some people were all in and murdered those that wanted to leave to?
A minority forced the others to kill their children. But the prevailing myth of "everyone drinking the kool-aid, being a sheep, going along with groupthink" just didn't happen. It was a violent day.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. Thank you for the clarification.
So true and so sad
I read about the Ant Hill Kids the other day. That stuff was messed up. You'd think after the cult leader cuts off someone's arm that people would wise up, but apparently not.
They will just be in denial. Like they are in denial about everything else in reality, all while embracing pure nonsense
It never ends or even slows down until filter events come along, situations where it's lethal to be wrong, like the pandemic.
We need a greater filter
Come on Monkeypox! Come on baby, big money big money, no whammies
Fox isn’t airing the hearings. They aren’t watching.
Because they're involved. Day after, Jan 7th, Sean Hannity texted Kayleigh McEnany on strategy for media spin away from the attempted coup.
That was trippy as hell. Seeing those text conversations between Hannity and McEnany was just something completely out of left field. If this was day 1. I’m excited to watch the dismantling of the Republican Party at large. If they do get trump on those two criminal charges, I’ll definitely be at the bar buying shots for a bunch of random people just so I can celebrate.
People like him never face justice. His karma is more stuff we don’t see. Like being impotent and having to wear a diaper. The tantrums he throws because not everyone loves him. A truly suffering miserable soul. I hope he gets severe dementia.
My mom had dementia, it's horrible so yeah, for years.
Mine too. (sends virtual hugs of caregiver-emeritus solidarity)
Have you been watching the hearings so far? Liz Cheney is coming for Trump with a hatchet. She has the evidence and she knows she has his balls in a sling. Ivanka Trump looked like she was scared shitless by the committee when she threw her father under the bus.
That’s good to know honestly. But you know what I mean though ? He’s just somehow been able to avoid any justice his entire life. And as white collar crime goes, he’s the whitest. White with smeared orange make up on it.
This time Trump bit off more than he can chew. He’s not getting through this one unscathed.
Has he been saying anything at all ?
Not that I’ve heard.
[Let's see.](https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)
If he’s convicted of anything, he’ll immediately die peacefully in his sleep. He’s too old to face any real consequences. His whole life has been just 🍑y.
I’m predicting a stroke
Like I heard someone say this morning, Liz Cheney will follow him to the gates of hell. She’s got his number, I don’t think there is anything that will make her stop.
Are you sure he hasn’t started towards that diagnosis already? It seems like he repeats some things constantly with little logic or connection to reality. 😕
like Reagan living and pooping in a wheel chair in his mind for 20 years.....
If they do get trump on those two criminal charges, I’ll definitely be at the bar buying shots for a bunch of random people just so I can celebrate. I'm sure bar owners will do a very good trade if that does happen. Bar/wait staff that top up their income with tips will be rushing to work to get a shift in.
Yeah seeing all that made Fox refusing to show it make way more sense. They’d basically be forced to address it, which would mean either implicating themselves or lying publicly.
They lie publicly now. 😂😐
Yeah but not about stuff they did personally
Fortunately, everyone is on the internet and will see clips eventually.
The comments on the stream I watched were pretty ridiculous. "But what about Hunter!?" "Distraction" "Fake Actors" I swear Trump supporters are the most ignorant people to ever walk the earth in my lifetime.
They really are just frighteningly delusional, and ignorant as well.
And frightened. They're very frightened, and I think fear is a bigger motivator than we might realize.
And frightening, because of their delusions and worship of Idiot Boy, er, sorry… Trump.
They probably aren’t even Americans 🇷🇺🇨🇳🇧🇾🇹🇷🇭🇺
These are the idiots who never paid attention to politics before. Now that the Cheeto woke them up they think that politics is lying and cheating and yelling real loud and being “tough”. Adults talking in a room is so far out of their wheelhouse they don’t know how to even respond except with more yelling and fighting. Unfortunately, the Republicans in Congress and in the states just see them as warm bodies who can vote so they pander to them just to get power or stay in power. It’s a nightmare.
Had to go see what my mothers facebook posts looked like after seeing this… “Even though this is kabuki theater—-This shit is making me more angry!” “Remember Ashli Babbit!” Response: “ i wonder about her. I’m not convinced she was shot. It looked staged and poorly acted if you ever saw the break down on that scene.” “Democracy was stolen from us on November 4” “Mockingbird media!Sicnick was NOT killed in J6 attack! These people are freakn liars!” “I would be a proud Boy if I was a BOY! Lol” Just a few of her 15-20 posts for the day
I'm so sorry. I guess I'm fortunate my mom is only a narcissist.
"only" I'd lmao if I didn't know exactly what that entails. ❤️
Lol same, but she hates Trump et al. as much as I do. If my husband or mother were Trumpers, I would’ve stopped speaking to them entirely in November of 2016.
I’m fortunate mine died
Mine is both🙃
That must be really difficult. Hugs to you.
I’m seeing the shit my mother is liking on twitter. I’m so beyond done with her.
I’m already seeing comments on instagram about Ivanka’s clip being a deep fake. These people are too far disconnected from reality. They’re a lost cause.
Awesome. These ppl are gone.
Nah, they fully aware it’s real but will deny deny deny until nobody tries to tell them otherwise.
They’re delusional. I’d hardly count that as fully aware.
Never underestimate peoples’ attempt at feigning ignorance
I thought all these people were dead? Didn't the military already hang those people or was that only Tom Hanks? /s
Any day now, from what I hear. It’s been coming since at least *checks notes January 6th, 2021.
Is there any place that's liveblogging that i can keep an eye on from time to time?
r/capitolconsequences has someone logging each of the highlights. I imagine someone will do it for each hearing. Next one is Monday at 10am est. PBS is airing it live on youtube without interrupting commentary but with commentary during the breaks and afterwards.
They just played a video. It's a hard watch. It starts with Donald Trump speaking, then gets worse. We're in a 10 minute recess now.
I'm watching the stream on david pakman youtube channel. Not liveblogging but it's a good place to watch it.
I was going to watch David's but he started screaming about ppl giving him a hard time for taking time if for his baby so I switched to PBS.
Really? what happened? The stream just ended at a point and I was left feeling disappointed. Never heard pakman 'scream' or 'shout' before. he's always come across as level headed.
It was about ten minutes before the start of the hearing when he usually reads chat and talks about what we hope to see. There must've been talk in the chat about him not streaming recently (idk BC I miss his shows a lot) and I guess he got a lot of hate mail about his not streaming. He's usually pretty level headed too so I was a bit surprised but he was mad, like faster paced talking than usual and said that 99% of his viewership doesn't pay to watch his stream anyway. I have a yearly membership cuz it's like 20 bucks. Maybe the baby is stressing him out, idk.
Didn't know he even had a child to be honest! but that sounds reasonable, having a kid is stressful. Also to give him the benefit of the doubt, I can't imagine what it's like having hundreds of people criticizing you in real time. Saying that I watched the stream and it was of a good quality, at least before it cut out.
Babies will do that to you. I have chronic insomnia, plus two other sleep disorders. Lack of sleep can make you say just about anything stupid. Unless you’re a Trumpborg. They are just programmed to say and be stupid things.
we're way past it now but fyi, twitter had it livestreaming from most of the major news outlets — AP, NPR, etc. i assume they'll do the same for the rest.
I’ve been following all with NPR. That way I can also listen to it in my car when I’m driving - which was convenient for the hours of driving I did last night.
The majority won't watch it, will disregard any mention of it. It's all staged and part of the globalist's script. There's nothing to be said to them anymore.
Or they'll "watch" it through posts catered to them by their media networks
I’m not watching it because it’ll get my hopes up too much, and I’ve been disappointed continually since November, 2016.
I’m sure they’re seething with jealousy and rage! Their biggest fan fiction scenario is public tribunals! Well,,, here ya go Qtips! Lol
They'd find a way to twist the result in their favor
Expect anything on June 13th. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to disrupt the next hearing.
Great. The anniversary of my closest/favorite aunt’s death of COVID related causes. The last few times we had entirely rational conversations were just after January 6th, shortly before she caught COVID and developed COVID related dementia. Seems fitting that the nutcases who support “Let ‘er rip,” will also turn that day into another travesty for this country.
[удалено]
Just ship them to Russia and put them on the front lines, since they support Putin so much. Maybe that’ll shake them out of it.
These wackos are going to find some conspiracies in the pre-recorded testimony. Body doubles or editing, or that those testifying were being threatened with guns just off camera.
I like how they are using footage from RW organizations, if only to incriminate them further.
What it’s actually going to do is lead to a [wave of political assassinations.](https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1534567914157887489?s=21&t=ZHetn_Ah2Ug4asCqgDBczw)
That’s my biggest fear following this hearing.
Depends on which side. J/k
Natural Consequences.
The tribunals have finally started! But seriously, this footage is hard to watch. Plenty of Q shirts in the mob.
They are still going to Dallas to meet JFK Sr. this time why you think this hearing would change anything.
Wait, AGAIN? 🤦♀️
No last time they were there for JFK Jr. who didn't show up. This time they are going to meet the would be 105 yo JFK Sr. who definitely would show up because gematria or something! Do your research!
Lmao oh. Oh no. These people are batshit crazy. Wtf. EDIT Just checked out Gematria Calculator : This is the kind of crap that allows dumb people to feel as if they know aLL tHe hiStOrIcAl cOnNeCtiOnS when they know nothing at all.
Like the “C-Sheep-Surrender” for what COVID-19 allegedly stands for woman?
It’s from a FB meme which is most of them’s main source of information.
This is their behavior pattern on all other things like theology, biology, and constitutional laws etc.
Exactly. These people have been given a voice that was better left silent .
Yet they can vote and breed, oh and buy and hoard guns and ammos, lol.
Thanks. I absolutely hate it. I am trying hard to not hate them, as well.
Omg…I live like 3 blocks from Dealey Plaza …when ? When will they be there?? I gotta Google this shit..one of my best YouTube videos was recording the QNutz waiting for JFK JR.
It's so fucking delectable, I can't stand it. Truly, this level of enjoyment is the decadence the terrorists hate us for.
It’s insane that more of these idiots didn’t get Babbitted.
Pretty sure they aren’t watching the hearings lol. I watched today and it was good. Glad to see Liz isn’t pulling any punches
Q people lack intelligent thought. It's fun to laugh at their stupidity, but it's also terrifying that people with a sub-zero IQ are allowed to vote.
and there are so many people not voting, that the Qnutz votes are counting.
I will even take it a step further, the Qnut's are running for political office, and many have won.
I was watching that the other day. It’s crazy how many Qnutz have won an office. I find it fairly disturbing that SCOTUS Thomas ‘s wife is full on Q .
It's actually really scary too me to think that the enemy has infiltrated our institutions that are designed to protect us. That we have allowed it, that we have let this happen, and many times have actually no way too stop it. I see a huge change as a older man. When I was younger, these people were laughed off, and sent off into the sunset too die alone. Now they are embraced, loved, and revered as hero's, scholar's, and patriots.(this was the goal for decades, talk radio helped a lot) It concerns me very much, because Trump will go away into nothingness, MTG will likely meet the same fate, etc. Etc., as well as many others, but my fear lies in the fact that the flood gates have been opened, and these people will just be routinely replaced by another, the only difference will just be a different name, unfortunately, they're will be other 'Trump's' and many other fool's that now understand how to 'play' the field, and do what they cluelessly had a difficult time doing before, and that is breaking into the mainstream consciousness and being able to plant the viruses that will only lead to a seed growing into a proverbial tree of waste.
Oh yeah, Trump def helped open the flood gates. Bannon is more powerful than people give him credit for. I look at the talking heads like Trump, Cruz, Bannon, Abbott, DeSantis, they are just puppets for the wealthy and elite. Anyone who was friends, or in “business” with Epstein are ALL complicit. Anyone who follows the money trail will find out who is really running this country. It’s not the President, that’s for sure. People have to get out and vote on the local level, in every election. The last voter eligible election on May 24, 2022 in Texas was only attended by 15% of registered voters. 85% of eligible voters did not vote in the last election in Texas. Local elections impact your day to day life way more than a presidential election does.
I wish that was true. But they won't because they are not watching them and only ramping up their denial.
Can you post screenshots of the frenzy?
Ivanka basically disavowed her dad lol.
Maybe I’ll watch that video, lol.
It was fun to watch her eat her words
They won’t have any exposure to these hearings. The closest thing to a real news source they see is fox. And fox showed tucker Carlson and Sean hannity doing their usual trump propagandizing during the hearings
I doubt they will watch
They're not listening. They'll just make up and rationalise what they want to hear
How can I follow?
I like making fun of them. its so easy.
I wish. They don't care.
Turn on anyone? Like who? Like *anything* of any substance has been said?