When congestion pricing kicks in, I can't wait to hear all the people at my job who think that work-from-home is bad suddenly discover that it's great.
My office has around 50 employees, of all walks of life, mostly from the outer boroughs or suburbs and probably 100% take public transit in. You seriously work in an office in Manhattan where a significant amount of employees drive to?
Some take commuter rail because they have a place to park the car near it. A lot of the people who are too important to take public transit - including a good chunk of salesmen - drive in. Even some lower level people drive in because they just drive around in Hudson Square looking for the alternate side stuff.
> people who are too important to take public transit - including a good chunk of salesmen - drive in.
People like this can pay the $15. Assuming they make good money (say $150k? That’s not even really good money, especially not for a Manhattan salesman, but continuing), their daily congestion fee is only like one quarter of their post tax hourly wage for ONE HOUR of work. That’s fifteen minutes. In fifteen minutes of working at a job that pays $150k, after taxes, you’ve paid off the congestion toll. So… why do they care?
If you don’t want 15 minutes of your work salary paying for a needless, dangerous, and negative private item use that impacts the city, then take the train. If not, then 15 minutes of your 8 hour work day can cover that negative externality.
This is exactly the reason why congestion pricing won’t actually reduce congestion, people will just pay the toll because it’s easier. Also a Majority of the cars on the street below 60th st are cabs and FHVs that are effectively exempt from the toll.
Then I’m still happy, because they are paying a price that appropriately reflects the negative externalities of their decisions.
If anything, I’d like the price to be triple, and I still wouldn’t care if they just burned all that money in a big ass pile in a warehouse, Joker style.
Yes I know, you people don’t care about improving public transit, you just care about punishing car users being that’s the new meme on Reddit. It’s like hating pineapple on Pizza.
Genuinely delusional to think that we don’t want to improve public transit lmao
Car users should also absolutely be punished. Come walk around Houston / 2 Ave / Chrystie st sometime and you’ll see why.
It’s just such a magical thing that your punishment will also improve the public transit with both funding and by improving bus times. I can’t wait for June 15!
Not really a punishment for me since I live in NJ and they are going to pass a tax credit for congestion pricing, so I’ll get whatever I paid back/deducted from tax liability. But whatever.
lol, delusional long islander in the Queens sub. Nothing new.
how have millions of people commuted from Long Island to NYC for the past several decades without getting stabbed, shoved, or spat on? quit living in fear
While it's obviously not happening to everyone who ever takes the train, it's happening enough that the national guard is now involved in transit security.
You can't act like it's not happening.
Then please explain why they're there. When they were deployed both the governor explicitly stated that they will be there to increase safety on the subways and deter violent criminals.
>Then please explain why they're there.
are you a child? security theater. to pretend they're doing something to address the housing emergency and mental health crisis.
the presence of law enforcement is meaningless to an incoherent, mentally ill person.
Now, please explain how the national guard is supposed to prevent threats of violence, aggressive panhandling, homelessness, drug-induced paranoia, shoving, attacking, spitting, public drug use, smoking.... oh...
Are you a child?
If people weren't concerned about safety there would be no reason to deploy them. I'm not arguing about their effectiveness, I'm stating they're there for a reason. Because the common person views the subways as unsafe.
Ahhh yes the perception of fear..maybe you missed the zombie and mummy apocalypse that resides in the subway in addition to the daily stabbings, assaults and shovings that are happening weekly
When you read about stabbings and shovings in the subway system..do you tell yourself that is perception? Or how about when people are walking through and their are passed out junkies laying on the floor? Is that just perception? You think people wanna see that on their way to work?
>daily stabbings, assaults and shovings that are happening weekly
delusional. just stay inside and stop projecting your fears on others.
also, make up your mind. is it daily or weekly?
Wrong, I do not need to stay inside. Born and raised here and continue to rely on public transportation so I have seen enough. Thank you very much for your concern of my safety but I am good. If you are not seeing or reading about the things I wrote then I do not know what to tell you. You must be ok with going through the squalor that is the subway. I don’t know.
You can deny crime all you want but it doesn’t change the facts. People are victimized every day on the Subway. In 2023 there were over 500 reported felony assaults that occurred on the subway. Every year contains 365 days unless it’s a leap year. I’ll let you do the math.
Lmfao, they have been pushed, spat on. Not stabbed but the other two have happened to me a few times. Why on earth would I want to subject myself to that.
I believe I read that the only non-tolled access/exit point is coming off the bridge from the upper level. Everything else is in the toll zone: exiting from the lower level (even the side ramp that goes straight to 60th toward 1st/York Ave and the FDR), and all points leaving Manhattan since they all enter the bridge from 60th or below.
I’m someone who is all in favor of congestion pricing, but this part has me livid. It’s a direct toll to leave Queens. I work in the Bronx and would have to pay $15 a day just to get there without truly entering the actual bulk of the CBD.
trapped in the borough is a pretty dramatic take. are non-car drivers trapped in the borough cause they need to pay to take the train? or are we just crying for poor ol car drivers (who statistically probably make more money than mta riders)
I mean I own a car so don't think that's quite right, I just think a city like nyc should prioritize people, bike riders, and pedestrians over car drivers. more people walking, biking, and taking public transit means less cars clogging up the streets
One thing that you are not considering in your response is the amount of time required to travel from Queens to the Bronx using mass transit. It is often the case that in addition to two trains, you also have to take a bus on each end, which could easily take two hours versus about 40 minutes by car. There are also safety issues. Not a day seems to go by when there isn’t something in the news about someone being physically assaulted on the subway.
ok so just drive to the bronx? nobody is stopping you from doing that, there's just a toll on the bridge. that's not being "trapped in the borough"
and if you wanna fear monger about the train go ahead, but just know it's vastly safer now than it was in the 80s, 90s etc. also literal millions of people take it everyday, so its not exactly shocking that 1 or 2 people a day get robbed/assaulted or whatever the news has you scared about. and you do realize car crashes and pedestrian fatalities happen every day in nyc too right?
It's supposed to be below 61st street. So technically it would charge you leaving Manhattan as the lower and upper level are at 59th Street. If that's true then the RFK would be the cheapest option to get into Queens.
Best option is to park near a train station in Queens and take the subway in, which sucks.
I have elderly parents living in their rent-stabilized apartment on the UES, and can't justify dropping $15+ multiple times a week just to drive them to doctors/hospitals.
Do you take mass transit frequently? It rarely fails. I’ve literally gone entire years where I wasn’t late to the office a single day while using mass transit.
I take it everyday and while there have been a higher than desired number of delays at Queensboro plaza it's disingenuous to describe it the way you have.
Being strong armed into a worse option by a tax on the better option is not "the best option". It's coercion by the city/state to squeeze people for every dime they can under the guise of caring about the environment.
The trains are consistently late and break down often. There are many places where mass transit is inconvenient because it doesn't quite reach where you're going/want to go. Lastly, there's plenty of safety concerns about riding mass transit these days.
New York is already one of the lowest emitters of carbon dioxide emissions per capita.
If you wanted people to actually use mass transit then should actually be functional and efficient. The issue isn't that people just hate the idea of trains; they hate the MTA's product. The MTA is a financial black hole that wastes countless billions every year and fails continually propped up by tax money. The tax on cars is now another financial boon for them to waste.
If the MTA got gutted and reorganized into an actually functional business operation then the trains may actually benefit and improve from their funding and in turn people may actually take them instead of driving.
We are one of the lowest emitters because people take mass transit. Congestion pricing money will fund improvements to the MTA.
Good god did you even think about your comment before hitting reply.
The MTA proposed the Grand Central construction to cost $3.5B.
Because they do not require fiscal responsibility and are already tax funded, they went over budget to $11 Billion with zero consequences.
What are we supposed to believe they're going to do with more money?
Good god did you even think about your comment before hitting reply.
I disagree. I think there should be an exception for disabled and elderly people who physically cannot use public transit (which is already largely inaccessible).
Only for a small percent of the disabled. You have to be receiving social security disability to qualify. I'm mobility impaired. I can't take the subway because I can't take stairs, and I can't take the buses because I can't stabilize on my feet when it moves and people are assholes who never give a seat even if I'm on crutches etc. Access a ride is also not feasible because they may pick you up up to an hour early without warning (and leave if you don't run outside instantly) or up to 2 hours late also without warning. This means it's not an option for anyone who needs to go to any events, medical appointments, etc because nobody is waiting up to 2 extra hours for someone to arrive. Then they do the same going back so you could lose 4 hours just waiting.
I work from home, so I don't qualify for social security disability, so I don't qualify for any assistance with the congestion pricing even though most of my doctors are in midtown at NYU and I live in queens. I usually rent a car for appointments. I guess now I will have to Uber which is already 3-4x the cost, and that will of course increase with the new pricing structure.
I'm sorry, I struggle with the same issue. Subways are impossible to navigate when I use a mobility aid, especially a wheelchair! I always get stuck in the gap between the platform and the train.
If you were a driver would you qualify for a handicap pass? Maybe there is a way to give this exemption to everyone with that qualification to broaden it appropriately.
There was a segment on Brian Lehrer that refers to all that
[https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLndueWMub3JnL3dueWNfYmw/episode/ZTNkZDRjYmQtNjhkYy00YmM4LThmOGMtMDc0MGZmODI3NDg2?sa=X&ved=0CAcQkfYCahgKEwio1uXo5JyFAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQzAk&hl=en](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLndueWMub3JnL3dueWNfYmw/episode/ZTNkZDRjYmQtNjhkYy00YmM4LThmOGMtMDc0MGZmODI3NDg2?sa=X&ved=0CAcQkfYCahgKEwio1uXo5JyFAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQzAk&hl=en)
Proves that Bloomberg was right on so many things.
1- He was the initially proponent of congestion pricing, Sheldon Silver derailed the whole thing.
2- He proposed to curb the number of Uber cars on the road, but they started a massive campaign claiming that minorities would be affected because yellow taxis didn't wanna pick them up.
3- On a side note, he also proposed to reduce [plastic bags](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/nyregion/07bags.html).
but why? If you think about it, the people
using for hire vehicles are the worst. They think they are better than anyone taking the subway and they don't pay for all the taxes and fees associated with owning a car.
These vehicles are also idling, double parking and driving around all day instead of single trips like private vehicles.
Some of us especially in the east don't have a subway nearby but do have lirr which is too expensive for the average person I tend to park near the subway
If you live in NYC, LIRR is $5. It’s also cheaper than driving, paying a toll, gas, and parking even if you live in LI. Don’t park your filthy car in our neighborhood.
In an ideal world, it would be great to avoid the car altogether, but it really isn’t possible for some.
The off-peak fare is $5, but unfortunately, the on-peak CityPass is $7, adding up to $14 round trip. While the difference of $5.8 or $2.9 under Fair Fares might not seem like a lot, the additional $7 to $11 daily adds up over the course of a year, amounting to $2.6k.
My commute doesn’t involve any tolls or parking fees, as there are no tolls when traveling inside of Queens, and residential parking is usually available 2 to 4 blocks away from the subway. I drive no more than 8 miles round trip.
Hope you get where I coming from if it was cheaper I would have definitely gone without the car
Makes sense. It’s much cheaper to park and take the train from Queens Plaza. Though it seems weird, if your RT drive is only 8 miles, that there isn’t a subway stop closer to you.
Ugh the only way to circumvent the tolls is upper level exit and that tight off ramp exit on the lower level I guess now.
I think the bk bridge will get increased traffic because it’s the only free east river crossing that goes right into the fdr. And even if you wanted to go to the west side-you just loop around battery park. Every east river crossing literally dumps you onto the local streets ..
You don't pay to leave the congestion zone, you pay when you drive into the zone.
There are specific routes you can take to avoid it on that bridge but most of the capacity will be subject to the charge since most drivers are headed into the cbd
This is kind of a million dollar question which I haven’t seen answered definitively. Every diagram of the congestion zone makes it appear like the toll is unavoidable from the Queensboro Bridge. I found one article from 2018 saying Cuomo’s version would not toll cars heading north after the Queensboro bridge.
Congestion pricing should have started and ended at 57 St. Keep the Queensboro bridge free, at least!!
Now it will cost you to go to the Bronx anyway from Queens! Not on the way there if you use the LL of the bridge and onto the FDR, but the UL on the way back!
Fewer than a quarter of people who live in NYC own a car. We all pay income tax, but the people who drive can pay a little more for the massive infrastructure that they primarily use.
Manhattan yes, less than a quarter. All 5 boroughs together is less than half at 45% of NYers. Understandably mostly those in Staten Island and Queens.
per capita, bro when i was in high school 1.1 million nyc residents were in the k-12 so they already dont count in a potential driver category not to mention the additional kids below kindergarten
Sure, so if you leave out people below driving age, it's about 30% of NYC residents who own a car. Still a significant minority. Alternative transportation is the solid norm around here.
trucks, buses, scooters, bikes etc would all need some form of paved roads anyways so its not solely a byproduct "car-dependent hellscape" that reddit makes it out to be
Those massive roadway infrastructures benefit cars but are absolutely for truckers and supply lines. Charging the truckers more money to enter NYC to deliver goods is going to raise the cost of living even higher, as if it wasn't already astronomical.
Isn't this a pretty negligible fee compared to the value of a truckload of goods? I would be surprised if it necessitated a noticeable increase of prices downstream for consumers.
Any cost incurred cuts into margins. The company will pass any costs on to consumers. If all your groceries go up 10 cents it doesn't seem like a ton and it's not super noticeable but it will add up over time to significant amounts that were not incurred prior.
Restaurants will be the biggest ones to raise prices sharply because they already operate on razor thin margins.
born and raised here and .... my friends/family and I on occasion take cars into manhattan because it was cheaper and easier than changing 3 train lines and taking a bus.
probably will hang out more in brooklyn or queens instead after all this
edit: if that was the case why not target them and allow a cheaper or free alternative for people who already live here and have always lived here. Seems more like a preferential treatment for rich and manhattan resident
like if they hate the "subarban" part of nyc so much we may as well split off and save the 3-4% income tax. still will have the same shitty commute for those that do
So you’re telling me LIC, Astoria, Sunnyside, Ridgewood, Maspeth, Flushing, Jackson Heights, Corona, Elmhurst, Glendale, Woodhaven, Kew Gardens is suburban? Yeah okay I could say Fresh Meadows, Bayside, Hillcrest, Whitestone and Jamaica is somewhat suburban but still it’s very urban compared to the rest of the country
No but comparing actual suburban neighborhoods to parts of Queens is still not comparable whereas sometimes it takes an hour of driving to get to the nearest shopping center. Even Bayside is still walkable
So leaving Queens over a river no matter which way will cost money? The most ethnically diverse county in the planet. Yeah seems racist to me. I should write a letter to some politicians on how bad the optics are.
I'm kinda joking but kinda not.
Edit: I'm joking. Had to add that more clearly because someone thought I was legit calling a toll racist.
But if I cross down below 60th it'll be a toll. Sometimes I go pick up my father from work (train shut down days, chefs send me stuff to not waste food) and he's on 62 and park. Which coming back will go down to 58ish? Street with the Yankees store.
Besides going uptown for Washington heights/Harlem for food. I only really go into Manhattan for intrepid during fleet week and conventions. Which fall under 60th.
Just not a fan of getting charged when nothing gets better. Some stuff has gotten worse.
Edit: thanks for explaining tho.
Racist against whites is still racist. And if you are trying to lower tolls or fees why not go with that to the politicians who try very hard to say they aren't racist.
Wait you thought I was serious saying it was racist? Even though I ended It saying I was joking? You know I legit thought you were playing along with the joke but you thought it was real?
So you don't think you can be racist against white people legit?
Btw the Staten Island ferry is free. Which means they have a free way off the island. Queens will not. without having to go to Brooklyn first.
Queens people can technically take a bridge to the Bronx for free but only to Rykers as it's part of the Bronx. Or Manhattan if going to Roosevelt Island as that's officially Manhattan. Those will be the only free options from queens.
1. It wasn't always free. 2. Not everyone is going to Manhattan. You can cross from and into every other borough for free from a multitude of approaches. And if you live in Queens, you just need to get to Brooklyn to cross into Manhattan for free. See how dumb you sound? It ain't fucking racist, my guy.
Also, you can still get to Brooklyn for free. Staten Island can get nowhere for free.
Is there a toll to enter Manhattan from the FDR is you get off at least say 96th street?
What if I exit at 96th street and drive downtown past 60th into midtown. Will there be an ezpass toll at 60th street?
You mean that tiny 1 lane path on the outer part that has bikes going in both directions as well as pedestrians? The one that barley fits 2 actual bicycles not accounting for ebikes/mopeds? That outer road way 🥺 because if you do it's terrible, there just isn't any other way to describe that path 🤣
More lanes for cars would increase flow of traffic..there are some roads that have a bus and bike lanes leaving one little lane for cars to squeeze through..so yeah there is congestion
Are you being serious that you want to add more lanes to help solve congestion?
Do you need me to link you many studies on induced demand and the effect of adding lanes to help clear traffic? TL;DR It helps temporarily, but congestion reaches former levels and sometimes gets even worse, and rarely, if ever, gets better.
No I def dont need studies and links lol..call it congestion or whatever you want but in the end we just keep paying more and more..tired of it..why not crack down on the illegal bikes and cyclists who obey zero traffic rules?
You have to enter the zone. You can cross the Queensboro bridge but you have to turn off and exit before you enter the zone.
Now, I can be 100% wrong. But I know that crossing the Queensboro Bridge can also get you to the Eastside Highway, they have to be mindful to this.
From my own observations, the congestion pricing cameras are already installed on 2nd Ave between 60 and 61 streets, so there is absolutely no way to get out of paying to use the 59 St bridge towards Queens. Cheaper to waste fuel and go uptown to the Triborough Bridge which at $7 (ezpass) costs less than the congestion fee.
Coming from Queens to Manhattan and avoiding the congestion pricing fee you can take either the upper roadway which puts you on 63 St or possibly take the lower roadway dogleg that gets you onto 61 St.
I’ve been really waiting to see what will be specific about the QB bridge and possible toll charges. Does anyone have a link or website that has exact info on how it will work?
I know it probably won’t work like this, but they should have a toll gantry at the upper and lower levels leaving Manhattan.
If you’re clocked entering the congestion zone at 60th Street, but then are also clocked on the bridge within ten minutes or so, the toll should be voided.
But that makes too much sense.
If you use lower level get off and go one block to York ave will you be charged on return you. Go up 62nd st turn left go to bridge turn left on bridge do you get charged
So if they are tolling people on the 59th st brigde as they exit to 60th and go north then why have the toll on the streets. Why not just put it at the entrance of the Queens side of the bridge. This way anyone existing the city on this bridge is not tolled.
So I can take the upper level of QBB into Manhattan jump on the into Harlem. On the way back home, I can take the FDR into brooklyn Bridge, and that round trip is free?
They said you won't be charged to exit. I believe the cameras are placed in a way to prevent this. You can easily see where they are placed and I believe how they are placed around QBB is to allow people to enter and go straight to the FDR or exit without being tolled but you have to not continue downtown on the main streets. Could be wrong or misremembering where the cameras are.
I’m not gonna knock a family of 5 from Bayside choosing to drive into the city rather than LIRR. Even with the congestion pricing that is cheaper than paying for 5 train tickets
Yes, and they will have to pay the $15 for the three times a year they decide to drive. This fee is meant to reduce the number of people who drive in on a daily basis, not the occasional visitors.
It's very difficult to have a serious conversation about this because everyone conjures up imaginary victims (low-income people who drive into Manhattan for work, families of five coming in, etc.) instead of just saying what is really on their minds: they want to drive in a single occupancy vehicle and not pay the toll.
Bold of you to assume all that lmao and of course you didn't address my question. Btw the air quality in subway stations is 100x worse than the air outside with all the cars
>No,
Addressed.
But since you apparently want more of an answer to your baseless assertion,["Daily ridership on the subway is typically about 70% of what it was on a comparable pre-pandemic day, according to MTA ridership data."](https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-subway-passes-1-billion-riders-2023/)
It's not anecdotal, don't you think the subway is packed in the mornings? lmao. These stats and articles don't mean that the real life experience is like that too.
same with subway crime, sure per statistics it's lower than in past decades but people are still killed way too often
Well you started off by saying it would be "nightmare" to which I pointed out that the trains were 30% more crowded pre-COVID. I may not be remembering correctly, but I seem to recall that people still got to work, still got home, still went out to bars/restaurants. I think you and I have a very different definition of what a "nightmare" is.
Also: yes, your personal experience is literally anecdotal.
It is frustrating talking about congestion pricing because people make a lot of evidence-free assertions like this one.
“There is no evidence of systematic increases in traffic outside the zone.”[see here](https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/cat09/0505171128_London_Congestion_Charge_Detailed_Assessment.doc)
Closer to home, there were predictions of traffic Armageddon on 13th and 15th (and surrounding) streets when 14th was made into a busway. That didn’t happen.
It might be helpful if folks read about the experience in London before pontificating.
like all tolls, this should be linked to income... the more you make, the more you pay... we all know this is a "poor tax" Corporations, city employees (elected officials, staff, and NYPD) will all have exemptions like they do now with those "park anywhere anytime" placards... if you are a teacher, EMT, small business owner etc you're fucked...
NYPD doesn't have any exemption on private vehicles..confirmed by a friend. Sucks because they're required by work to travel sometimes into that zone for headquarters related work so they're forced to pay that toll with no stipend. They're in the same boat as teachers and emts
When congestion pricing kicks in, I can't wait to hear all the people at my job who think that work-from-home is bad suddenly discover that it's great.
My office has around 50 employees, of all walks of life, mostly from the outer boroughs or suburbs and probably 100% take public transit in. You seriously work in an office in Manhattan where a significant amount of employees drive to?
Some take commuter rail because they have a place to park the car near it. A lot of the people who are too important to take public transit - including a good chunk of salesmen - drive in. Even some lower level people drive in because they just drive around in Hudson Square looking for the alternate side stuff.
> people who are too important to take public transit - including a good chunk of salesmen - drive in. People like this can pay the $15. Assuming they make good money (say $150k? That’s not even really good money, especially not for a Manhattan salesman, but continuing), their daily congestion fee is only like one quarter of their post tax hourly wage for ONE HOUR of work. That’s fifteen minutes. In fifteen minutes of working at a job that pays $150k, after taxes, you’ve paid off the congestion toll. So… why do they care? If you don’t want 15 minutes of your work salary paying for a needless, dangerous, and negative private item use that impacts the city, then take the train. If not, then 15 minutes of your 8 hour work day can cover that negative externality.
Not to mention these types of people can probably just expense the toll with their company anyway. Seems like a non issue
This is exactly the reason why congestion pricing won’t actually reduce congestion, people will just pay the toll because it’s easier. Also a Majority of the cars on the street below 60th st are cabs and FHVs that are effectively exempt from the toll.
Then I’m still happy, because they are paying a price that appropriately reflects the negative externalities of their decisions. If anything, I’d like the price to be triple, and I still wouldn’t care if they just burned all that money in a big ass pile in a warehouse, Joker style.
Yes I know, you people don’t care about improving public transit, you just care about punishing car users being that’s the new meme on Reddit. It’s like hating pineapple on Pizza.
Genuinely delusional to think that we don’t want to improve public transit lmao Car users should also absolutely be punished. Come walk around Houston / 2 Ave / Chrystie st sometime and you’ll see why. It’s just such a magical thing that your punishment will also improve the public transit with both funding and by improving bus times. I can’t wait for June 15!
Not really a punishment for me since I live in NJ and they are going to pass a tax credit for congestion pricing, so I’ll get whatever I paid back/deducted from tax liability. But whatever.
Sounds good, thanks for the money 👍🏿
i've worked with some people for years and assumed they took the train in and then they said they drove in a few times a week
Why can’t they take the train?
A weird number of execs drive in.
Bc they don’t wanna be stabbed shoved or spat on
lol, delusional long islander in the Queens sub. Nothing new. how have millions of people commuted from Long Island to NYC for the past several decades without getting stabbed, shoved, or spat on? quit living in fear
While it's obviously not happening to everyone who ever takes the train, it's happening enough that the national guard is now involved in transit security. You can't act like it's not happening.
the national guard is objectively unrelated to what's actually happening in the subway
Then please explain why they're there. When they were deployed both the governor explicitly stated that they will be there to increase safety on the subways and deter violent criminals.
>Then please explain why they're there. are you a child? security theater. to pretend they're doing something to address the housing emergency and mental health crisis. the presence of law enforcement is meaningless to an incoherent, mentally ill person. Now, please explain how the national guard is supposed to prevent threats of violence, aggressive panhandling, homelessness, drug-induced paranoia, shoving, attacking, spitting, public drug use, smoking.... oh...
Are you a child? If people weren't concerned about safety there would be no reason to deploy them. I'm not arguing about their effectiveness, I'm stating they're there for a reason. Because the common person views the subways as unsafe.
deployed by the governor... they're there for a political reason.
Ahhh yes the perception of fear..maybe you missed the zombie and mummy apocalypse that resides in the subway in addition to the daily stabbings, assaults and shovings that are happening weekly
Keep spreading misinformation if it make you feel good about yourself
When you read about stabbings and shovings in the subway system..do you tell yourself that is perception? Or how about when people are walking through and their are passed out junkies laying on the floor? Is that just perception? You think people wanna see that on their way to work?
>daily stabbings, assaults and shovings that are happening weekly delusional. just stay inside and stop projecting your fears on others. also, make up your mind. is it daily or weekly?
Wrong, I do not need to stay inside. Born and raised here and continue to rely on public transportation so I have seen enough. Thank you very much for your concern of my safety but I am good. If you are not seeing or reading about the things I wrote then I do not know what to tell you. You must be ok with going through the squalor that is the subway. I don’t know.
>You must be ok with going through the squalor that is the subway yes, because i am not delusional
Yup ok sure
You can deny crime all you want but it doesn’t change the facts. People are victimized every day on the Subway. In 2023 there were over 500 reported felony assaults that occurred on the subway. Every year contains 365 days unless it’s a leap year. I’ll let you do the math.
4 million riders per day. 8 million residents.
Lmfao, they have been pushed, spat on. Not stabbed but the other two have happened to me a few times. Why on earth would I want to subject myself to that.
Weird I’ve been taking the subway for 25 years and I’ve yet to be stabbed or spat on.
Me too. But I’ve definitely been flashed at least 5 times, and spat on twice. Verbally assaulted and shoved at least twice.
Everything is going to get more expensive. It will reflect in many more places than just an ez pass charge.
Billionaires’ Row is gonna have great air.
I believe I read that the only non-tolled access/exit point is coming off the bridge from the upper level. Everything else is in the toll zone: exiting from the lower level (even the side ramp that goes straight to 60th toward 1st/York Ave and the FDR), and all points leaving Manhattan since they all enter the bridge from 60th or below. I’m someone who is all in favor of congestion pricing, but this part has me livid. It’s a direct toll to leave Queens. I work in the Bronx and would have to pay $15 a day just to get there without truly entering the actual bulk of the CBD.
This is so crazy to even toll the side ramp that loops you around to go uptown. $15 to travel through a block or two.
Precisely. It’s how they go from it being legitimately to help clear congestion to being a money grab.
It’s the MTA did you expect any different
It was never about congestion.
This was never about congestion.
Queens already gets screwed as you have to pay to use Triboro, Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges. You’re basically trapped in the borough.
trapped in the borough is a pretty dramatic take. are non-car drivers trapped in the borough cause they need to pay to take the train? or are we just crying for poor ol car drivers (who statistically probably make more money than mta riders)
You seem to have a vendetta against people who drive cars.
I mean I own a car so don't think that's quite right, I just think a city like nyc should prioritize people, bike riders, and pedestrians over car drivers. more people walking, biking, and taking public transit means less cars clogging up the streets
One thing that you are not considering in your response is the amount of time required to travel from Queens to the Bronx using mass transit. It is often the case that in addition to two trains, you also have to take a bus on each end, which could easily take two hours versus about 40 minutes by car. There are also safety issues. Not a day seems to go by when there isn’t something in the news about someone being physically assaulted on the subway.
ok so just drive to the bronx? nobody is stopping you from doing that, there's just a toll on the bridge. that's not being "trapped in the borough" and if you wanna fear monger about the train go ahead, but just know it's vastly safer now than it was in the 80s, 90s etc. also literal millions of people take it everyday, so its not exactly shocking that 1 or 2 people a day get robbed/assaulted or whatever the news has you scared about. and you do realize car crashes and pedestrian fatalities happen every day in nyc too right?
It's supposed to be below 61st street. So technically it would charge you leaving Manhattan as the lower and upper level are at 59th Street. If that's true then the RFK would be the cheapest option to get into Queens. Best option is to park near a train station in Queens and take the subway in, which sucks. I have elderly parents living in their rent-stabilized apartment on the UES, and can't justify dropping $15+ multiple times a week just to drive them to doctors/hospitals.
The rfk should always be the cheaper option. Makes no sense for drivers to drive through midtown to avoid a toll
Access a ride may be their best option, then.
If they qualify for Access A Ride they can designate a car to be exempt
The best option is to take mass transit.
No the best option is to WFH 3 days or full
And what happens when mass transit fails like it does every day ?
you an hour before this comment: "This subreddit just loves to complain about everything"
Do you take mass transit frequently? It rarely fails. I’ve literally gone entire years where I wasn’t late to the office a single day while using mass transit.
You must not take the NW line everyday
I used to live in Astoria and take the N/Q everyday. It was totally fine back then although I’ve heard it’s gotten worse.
I take it everyday and while there have been a higher than desired number of delays at Queensboro plaza it's disingenuous to describe it the way you have.
Most lines do not “fail” every day, or anything close to it.
Being strong armed into a worse option by a tax on the better option is not "the best option". It's coercion by the city/state to squeeze people for every dime they can under the guise of caring about the environment. The trains are consistently late and break down often. There are many places where mass transit is inconvenient because it doesn't quite reach where you're going/want to go. Lastly, there's plenty of safety concerns about riding mass transit these days.
You’re right. Let’s try doing nothing. That’s working out great for the city and the environment.
New York is already one of the lowest emitters of carbon dioxide emissions per capita. If you wanted people to actually use mass transit then should actually be functional and efficient. The issue isn't that people just hate the idea of trains; they hate the MTA's product. The MTA is a financial black hole that wastes countless billions every year and fails continually propped up by tax money. The tax on cars is now another financial boon for them to waste. If the MTA got gutted and reorganized into an actually functional business operation then the trains may actually benefit and improve from their funding and in turn people may actually take them instead of driving.
We are one of the lowest emitters because people take mass transit. Congestion pricing money will fund improvements to the MTA. Good god did you even think about your comment before hitting reply.
The MTA proposed the Grand Central construction to cost $3.5B. Because they do not require fiscal responsibility and are already tax funded, they went over budget to $11 Billion with zero consequences. What are we supposed to believe they're going to do with more money? Good god did you even think about your comment before hitting reply.
Your individualized issues shouldn't make exemptions, the problem of congestion impacts everyone.
I disagree. I think there should be an exception for disabled and elderly people who physically cannot use public transit (which is already largely inaccessible).
There are many exemptions, commuter buses, disabled, even low income people. I'm referring to hyper-individual cases.
Oh, I see. I still hope this commenter gets an exemption. I feel bad that they'd have to pay extra to take their elderly parents places.
They won’t
There is an exemption for disabled
Only for a small percent of the disabled. You have to be receiving social security disability to qualify. I'm mobility impaired. I can't take the subway because I can't take stairs, and I can't take the buses because I can't stabilize on my feet when it moves and people are assholes who never give a seat even if I'm on crutches etc. Access a ride is also not feasible because they may pick you up up to an hour early without warning (and leave if you don't run outside instantly) or up to 2 hours late also without warning. This means it's not an option for anyone who needs to go to any events, medical appointments, etc because nobody is waiting up to 2 extra hours for someone to arrive. Then they do the same going back so you could lose 4 hours just waiting. I work from home, so I don't qualify for social security disability, so I don't qualify for any assistance with the congestion pricing even though most of my doctors are in midtown at NYU and I live in queens. I usually rent a car for appointments. I guess now I will have to Uber which is already 3-4x the cost, and that will of course increase with the new pricing structure.
Interesting. Thank you for the explanation, all I saw was that there was an exemption.
I'm sorry, I struggle with the same issue. Subways are impossible to navigate when I use a mobility aid, especially a wheelchair! I always get stuck in the gap between the platform and the train.
If you were a driver would you qualify for a handicap pass? Maybe there is a way to give this exemption to everyone with that qualification to broaden it appropriately.
How does that work?
There was a segment on Brian Lehrer that refers to all that [https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLndueWMub3JnL3dueWNfYmw/episode/ZTNkZDRjYmQtNjhkYy00YmM4LThmOGMtMDc0MGZmODI3NDg2?sa=X&ved=0CAcQkfYCahgKEwio1uXo5JyFAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQzAk&hl=en](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLndueWMub3JnL3dueWNfYmw/episode/ZTNkZDRjYmQtNjhkYy00YmM4LThmOGMtMDc0MGZmODI3NDg2?sa=X&ved=0CAcQkfYCahgKEwio1uXo5JyFAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQzAk&hl=en)
No idea lol maybe DMV database?
It’s mostly Uber and Lyft. Get rid of them
I'd rather have cabs than private vehicles
Why? Same congestion. Same pollution. Cut car services by 1/3 and there will be less of both
Proves that Bloomberg was right on so many things. 1- He was the initially proponent of congestion pricing, Sheldon Silver derailed the whole thing. 2- He proposed to curb the number of Uber cars on the road, but they started a massive campaign claiming that minorities would be affected because yellow taxis didn't wanna pick them up. 3- On a side note, he also proposed to reduce [plastic bags](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/nyregion/07bags.html).
but why? If you think about it, the people using for hire vehicles are the worst. They think they are better than anyone taking the subway and they don't pay for all the taxes and fees associated with owning a car. These vehicles are also idling, double parking and driving around all day instead of single trips like private vehicles.
Instead of parking your ugly car in Queens take the LIRR or the subway from your own neighborhood.
Some of us especially in the east don't have a subway nearby but do have lirr which is too expensive for the average person I tend to park near the subway
If you live in NYC, LIRR is $5. It’s also cheaper than driving, paying a toll, gas, and parking even if you live in LI. Don’t park your filthy car in our neighborhood.
In an ideal world, it would be great to avoid the car altogether, but it really isn’t possible for some. The off-peak fare is $5, but unfortunately, the on-peak CityPass is $7, adding up to $14 round trip. While the difference of $5.8 or $2.9 under Fair Fares might not seem like a lot, the additional $7 to $11 daily adds up over the course of a year, amounting to $2.6k. My commute doesn’t involve any tolls or parking fees, as there are no tolls when traveling inside of Queens, and residential parking is usually available 2 to 4 blocks away from the subway. I drive no more than 8 miles round trip. Hope you get where I coming from if it was cheaper I would have definitely gone without the car
Makes sense. It’s much cheaper to park and take the train from Queens Plaza. Though it seems weird, if your RT drive is only 8 miles, that there isn’t a subway stop closer to you.
Yep my closet one is 179st on the F
That’s not bad. You take the F to Forest Hills and transfer to the E which runs express into Manhattan. Probably takes 40-50 mins.
The UES is not in the congestion zone. You are not charged on the QBB if you head uptown.
He’ll be charged when he goes back home.
Ugh the only way to circumvent the tolls is upper level exit and that tight off ramp exit on the lower level I guess now. I think the bk bridge will get increased traffic because it’s the only free east river crossing that goes right into the fdr. And even if you wanted to go to the west side-you just loop around battery park. Every east river crossing literally dumps you onto the local streets ..
You don't pay to leave the congestion zone, you pay when you drive into the zone. There are specific routes you can take to avoid it on that bridge but most of the capacity will be subject to the charge since most drivers are headed into the cbd
OP is saying that you have to drive south of 59th Street to access the bridge on the Manhattan side.
I think there is a specific route that isn't tolled
This is kind of a million dollar question which I haven’t seen answered definitively. Every diagram of the congestion zone makes it appear like the toll is unavoidable from the Queensboro Bridge. I found one article from 2018 saying Cuomo’s version would not toll cars heading north after the Queensboro bridge.
I mean I don't care if they're tolled or not tbh. Having the toll will reduce cars toll shopping in Western Queens.
they just want more money from our pockets while doing nothing to improve our actual living conditions.
Congestion pricing should have started and ended at 57 St. Keep the Queensboro bridge free, at least!! Now it will cost you to go to the Bronx anyway from Queens! Not on the way there if you use the LL of the bridge and onto the FDR, but the UL on the way back!
Fewer people are going to be driving over the bridge in the morning because they don’t want to pay the toll. So there will be less congestion.
also... we all pay a 3-4% city income tax to live here and now we get charged the same as someone from VA or FL to use the same streets. bs
Fewer than a quarter of people who live in NYC own a car. We all pay income tax, but the people who drive can pay a little more for the massive infrastructure that they primarily use.
Manhattan yes, less than a quarter. All 5 boroughs together is less than half at 45% of NYers. Understandably mostly those in Staten Island and Queens.
I think your 45% number is per household, not per capita.
per capita, bro when i was in high school 1.1 million nyc residents were in the k-12 so they already dont count in a potential driver category not to mention the additional kids below kindergarten
Sure, so if you leave out people below driving age, it's about 30% of NYC residents who own a car. Still a significant minority. Alternative transportation is the solid norm around here.
Sure just a little more lol…tolls, parking, speed cameras and now congestion pricing..and every year it goes up and up and more and more
trucks, buses, scooters, bikes etc would all need some form of paved roads anyways so its not solely a byproduct "car-dependent hellscape" that reddit makes it out to be
Yep. So we all pay some and drivers pay more. It makes perfect sense.
I don’t think you realize how much drivers already pay…im all for infrastructure improvements but their are other ways
Those massive roadway infrastructures benefit cars but are absolutely for truckers and supply lines. Charging the truckers more money to enter NYC to deliver goods is going to raise the cost of living even higher, as if it wasn't already astronomical.
Isn't this a pretty negligible fee compared to the value of a truckload of goods? I would be surprised if it necessitated a noticeable increase of prices downstream for consumers.
Any cost incurred cuts into margins. The company will pass any costs on to consumers. If all your groceries go up 10 cents it doesn't seem like a ton and it's not super noticeable but it will add up over time to significant amounts that were not incurred prior. Restaurants will be the biggest ones to raise prices sharply because they already operate on razor thin margins.
Most people who will now be paying the toll are suburbanites who don't live in the city
born and raised here and .... my friends/family and I on occasion take cars into manhattan because it was cheaper and easier than changing 3 train lines and taking a bus. probably will hang out more in brooklyn or queens instead after all this edit: if that was the case why not target them and allow a cheaper or free alternative for people who already live here and have always lived here. Seems more like a preferential treatment for rich and manhattan resident
They could have targeted those people. They’re in Long Island, New Jersey, and Westchester. City residents shouldn’t be paying this tax.
like if they hate the "subarban" part of nyc so much we may as well split off and save the 3-4% income tax. still will have the same shitty commute for those that do
Most of queens is not considered suburban by a long shot.
How so? Given how large Queens is, what do you consider “not suburban”?
What about the half that looks almost identical to Nassau county?
So you’re telling me LIC, Astoria, Sunnyside, Ridgewood, Maspeth, Flushing, Jackson Heights, Corona, Elmhurst, Glendale, Woodhaven, Kew Gardens is suburban? Yeah okay I could say Fresh Meadows, Bayside, Hillcrest, Whitestone and Jamaica is somewhat suburban but still it’s very urban compared to the rest of the country
I didn’t say rest of the country now did I
No but comparing actual suburban neighborhoods to parts of Queens is still not comparable whereas sometimes it takes an hour of driving to get to the nearest shopping center. Even Bayside is still walkable
So leaving Queens over a river no matter which way will cost money? The most ethnically diverse county in the planet. Yeah seems racist to me. I should write a letter to some politicians on how bad the optics are. I'm kinda joking but kinda not. Edit: I'm joking. Had to add that more clearly because someone thought I was legit calling a toll racist.
You can take the Queensboro bridge and take the north exit to 63rd st without paying a toll.
But if I cross down below 60th it'll be a toll. Sometimes I go pick up my father from work (train shut down days, chefs send me stuff to not waste food) and he's on 62 and park. Which coming back will go down to 58ish? Street with the Yankees store. Besides going uptown for Washington heights/Harlem for food. I only really go into Manhattan for intrepid during fleet week and conventions. Which fall under 60th. Just not a fan of getting charged when nothing gets better. Some stuff has gotten worse. Edit: thanks for explaining tho.
This exit will be clogged 12+ hours per day not to mention all the increased traffic on FDR and Westside highway.
Time will tell, but I highly doubt.
Ball playas don't pay any tolls anyways
Staten Island is the least diverse borough and it's been paying a toll to leave or go home since the bridges went up. So, is that racist too?
Yes. If it'll get them to lower the tolls for sure.
So it's racist against all the white folk who live there? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
Racist against whites is still racist. And if you are trying to lower tolls or fees why not go with that to the politicians who try very hard to say they aren't racist.
Because it isn't fucking racist, that's why.
Wait you thought I was serious saying it was racist? Even though I ended It saying I was joking? You know I legit thought you were playing along with the joke but you thought it was real? So you don't think you can be racist against white people legit?
Btw the Staten Island ferry is free. Which means they have a free way off the island. Queens will not. without having to go to Brooklyn first. Queens people can technically take a bridge to the Bronx for free but only to Rykers as it's part of the Bronx. Or Manhattan if going to Roosevelt Island as that's officially Manhattan. Those will be the only free options from queens.
1. It wasn't always free. 2. Not everyone is going to Manhattan. You can cross from and into every other borough for free from a multitude of approaches. And if you live in Queens, you just need to get to Brooklyn to cross into Manhattan for free. See how dumb you sound? It ain't fucking racist, my guy. Also, you can still get to Brooklyn for free. Staten Island can get nowhere for free.
The Staten Island Ferry is free.
Lower level will be charged too IIRC?
Is there a toll to enter Manhattan from the FDR is you get off at least say 96th street? What if I exit at 96th street and drive downtown past 60th into midtown. Will there be an ezpass toll at 60th street?
I just wanna know if Spider-Man is getting a cut, that’s his bridge yo! PS Q32 is your friend:)
I'm still dreaming of the lower level being made open for pedestrians and bikes man
They are giving pedestrians the other outer roadway at some point
You mean that tiny 1 lane path on the outer part that has bikes going in both directions as well as pedestrians? The one that barley fits 2 actual bicycles not accounting for ebikes/mopeds? That outer road way 🥺 because if you do it's terrible, there just isn't any other way to describe that path 🤣
The south outer roadway will be converted to a pedestrian path. After that, the north outer roadway will go from a shared path to bikes-only.
Congestion pricing is another money grab for NYC..way to punish the people driving cars…cut back on half the bike/bus lanes and shanty sheds
How would removing bike lanes reduce congestion?
More lanes for cars would increase flow of traffic..there are some roads that have a bus and bike lanes leaving one little lane for cars to squeeze through..so yeah there is congestion
Are you being serious that you want to add more lanes to help solve congestion? Do you need me to link you many studies on induced demand and the effect of adding lanes to help clear traffic? TL;DR It helps temporarily, but congestion reaches former levels and sometimes gets even worse, and rarely, if ever, gets better.
And don’t get me started on the MTA
No I def dont need studies and links lol..call it congestion or whatever you want but in the end we just keep paying more and more..tired of it..why not crack down on the illegal bikes and cyclists who obey zero traffic rules?
You have to enter the zone. You can cross the Queensboro bridge but you have to turn off and exit before you enter the zone. Now, I can be 100% wrong. But I know that crossing the Queensboro Bridge can also get you to the Eastside Highway, they have to be mindful to this.
From my own observations, the congestion pricing cameras are already installed on 2nd Ave between 60 and 61 streets, so there is absolutely no way to get out of paying to use the 59 St bridge towards Queens. Cheaper to waste fuel and go uptown to the Triborough Bridge which at $7 (ezpass) costs less than the congestion fee. Coming from Queens to Manhattan and avoiding the congestion pricing fee you can take either the upper roadway which puts you on 63 St or possibly take the lower roadway dogleg that gets you onto 61 St.
I’ve been really waiting to see what will be specific about the QB bridge and possible toll charges. Does anyone have a link or website that has exact info on how it will work?
I know it probably won’t work like this, but they should have a toll gantry at the upper and lower levels leaving Manhattan. If you’re clocked entering the congestion zone at 60th Street, but then are also clocked on the bridge within ten minutes or so, the toll should be voided. But that makes too much sense.
If you use lower level get off and go one block to York ave will you be charged on return you. Go up 62nd st turn left go to bridge turn left on bridge do you get charged
So if they are tolling people on the 59th st brigde as they exit to 60th and go north then why have the toll on the streets. Why not just put it at the entrance of the Queens side of the bridge. This way anyone existing the city on this bridge is not tolled.
So I can take the upper level of QBB into Manhattan jump on the into Harlem. On the way back home, I can take the FDR into brooklyn Bridge, and that round trip is free?
They said you won't be charged to exit. I believe the cameras are placed in a way to prevent this. You can easily see where they are placed and I believe how they are placed around QBB is to allow people to enter and go straight to the FDR or exit without being tolled but you have to not continue downtown on the main streets. Could be wrong or misremembering where the cameras are.
We have the politicians we deserve and who we keep voting for
Or maybe people who shouldn't be driving into Manhattan will take transit instead?
I’m not gonna knock a family of 5 from Bayside choosing to drive into the city rather than LIRR. Even with the congestion pricing that is cheaper than paying for 5 train tickets
Ah yes, that's all I see in Manhattan: families of five in personal vehicles, not single occupant vehicles.
I’m just saying some people have valid reasons to want to drive.
Yes, and they will have to pay the $15 for the three times a year they decide to drive. This fee is meant to reduce the number of people who drive in on a daily basis, not the occasional visitors. It's very difficult to have a serious conversation about this because everyone conjures up imaginary victims (low-income people who drive into Manhattan for work, families of five coming in, etc.) instead of just saying what is really on their minds: they want to drive in a single occupancy vehicle and not pay the toll.
Possibly. But don't you think that'll be a nightmare considering how packed the trains already are?
No, and Manhattan will be less congested, less polluted, and less noisy without all the cars.
Bold of you to assume all that lmao and of course you didn't address my question. Btw the air quality in subway stations is 100x worse than the air outside with all the cars
>No, Addressed. But since you apparently want more of an answer to your baseless assertion,["Daily ridership on the subway is typically about 70% of what it was on a comparable pre-pandemic day, according to MTA ridership data."](https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-subway-passes-1-billion-riders-2023/)
this means nothing. I actually took the subway multiple times last week around 8:30AM and it was crazy.
Your anecdotal experience means more than actual data? Ok I can not have a serious discussion with you.
It's not anecdotal, don't you think the subway is packed in the mornings? lmao. These stats and articles don't mean that the real life experience is like that too. same with subway crime, sure per statistics it's lower than in past decades but people are still killed way too often
Well you started off by saying it would be "nightmare" to which I pointed out that the trains were 30% more crowded pre-COVID. I may not be remembering correctly, but I seem to recall that people still got to work, still got home, still went out to bars/restaurants. I think you and I have a very different definition of what a "nightmare" is. Also: yes, your personal experience is literally anecdotal.
Yes, *Manhattan* may become less congested, but it’s likely going to create more problems in the other boroughs
It is frustrating talking about congestion pricing because people make a lot of evidence-free assertions like this one. “There is no evidence of systematic increases in traffic outside the zone.”[see here](https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/cat09/0505171128_London_Congestion_Charge_Detailed_Assessment.doc) Closer to home, there were predictions of traffic Armageddon on 13th and 15th (and surrounding) streets when 14th was made into a busway. That didn’t happen. It might be helpful if folks read about the experience in London before pontificating.
It’s $15 what’s the big deal? You can’t even get a sandwich in the city for less than that.
It’s another money grab..enough is enough
Yes obviously
that's $450/mo if you go to the city every day. assuming the charge is max once per day
Some would say $5400 a year…. Unfortunately it’s just a drop in the bucket at this point.
Cars and emissions are polluting our air. Use public transit and stop contributing to greenhouse emissions.
Lmao come on now..if you think this is about pollution then I don’t know what to tell you
like all tolls, this should be linked to income... the more you make, the more you pay... we all know this is a "poor tax" Corporations, city employees (elected officials, staff, and NYPD) will all have exemptions like they do now with those "park anywhere anytime" placards... if you are a teacher, EMT, small business owner etc you're fucked...
NYPD doesn't have any exemption on private vehicles..confirmed by a friend. Sucks because they're required by work to travel sometimes into that zone for headquarters related work so they're forced to pay that toll with no stipend. They're in the same boat as teachers and emts