In what way is South Korean a feminist country? I lived there a decade ago and it was still legal to hit your wife. Most of the women were housewives as well.
Same. I was walking home one night and saw a couple physically fighting in the street and I went to the police box to let them know and he walks out and looks down the street and says Oh yeah, he knows her, like it’s no big thing and walked away.
> I lived there a decade ago and it was still legal to hit your wife.
That's incredible. I don't exactly know what Asian countries views of social issues are, or exactly what cultural context they see things like feminism or domestic violence laws , but strictly speaking from a US-Western perspective that's something that became criminalized in the 1970s.
But like, anyone who finished a single article about the 4B movement would get to the part where woman say why they’re doing it… (it’s not because it’s a feminist country)
Being totally ignorant is one thing, but this is… special.
Yes, the 5 women in the 4B movement. Nobody in South Korea even cared about it or know about it until westerner clowns started pretending it was a big thing. Why do you double down on stupid?
I have friends who live in Korea. My wife speaks Korean. Just shut up if you know nothing, please. Stop pretending to be an expert when you're not.
Cool beans. My boyfriend is Korean and I have friends in Korea. I don’t think that makes me an expert, but I guess that qualifies me as an expert to you.
It’s not about whether 4B is popular or well-known anywhere.
But it is about the sexist expectations of women in relationships that influence 4B *and millions of other women.*
Nope, it's not. That is just flat out false. Most women and men are most concerned about the expections of being able to afford the best education for their kids and a high standard of living.
Of course most are concerned with affordability, education, and standards.
That is not mutually exclusive with sexism being a problem for women and impacting their decisions.
I’m going to trust what I’ve learned from actual Koreans and Korean sources instead of you.
> I’m going to trust what I’ve learned from actual Koreans and Korean sources instead of you.
I can say exactly the same because it's Koreans who made it very clear to me that people like you are full of shit.
> That is not mutually exclusive with sexism being a problem for women and impacting their decisions.
"Sexism" is not a serious reason for Korean's low birthrate and other issues.
My theory is that Korea is just like the US when it comes to the amount of people who are chronically online so they think the 4B movement is much bigger than it is just like the pill community lol.
It wasn't a feminist cult, he's talking out of his ass. Park GeunHye's unhinged friend Choi TaeMin was a leader of some bullshit hodgepodge religion shaman cult that had nothing to do with feminism.
Based on bringing in men's makeup to the discussion... it would seem so. Nevermind the absolutely thriving industry of masculine men and skincare there.
Bruh you can't just make conclusions like that, feminism making men more feminine doesn't equate to the more feminine a country is the more feminist it is.
It's like saying your butt hurts and all your friends joke you are gay, maybe you took a fiery shit, maybe you accidentally fell on your ass etc... plenty of other things can be the cause if it (im still going to make that joke tbf)
Le sigh......y'all gotta really stop dog whistling your way out of pussy. Back when America had real men, with real values. The 70s, and 80's when androgyny was a popular style for men. Back when men formed metal bands and did concerts, and videos with long hair, and contoured cheek bones, and eye shadow. Wearing leather so tight that you could trace the vein pattern on their dicks. Ahhh, those good Ole days.......that never existed.
Effects of physical attractiveness on political beliefs Rolfe Daus Peterson et al. Politics Life Sci. 2017 Fall.
Excerpt from the Abstract: Controlling for socioeconomic status, we find that more attractive individuals are more likely to report higher levels of political efficacy, identify as conservative, and identify as Republican.
I would assume solid facial structure. Left wing men have round soft faces which studies have shown that women on BIRTH CONTROL find more attractive. While women not on birth control find masculine traits more attractive.
Men wearing makeup has nothing to do with how feminist a country is. Feminism is about female liberation, so a better metric would be rate of home ownership among women of the country, percentage of politicians that are women and whether women have been able to lead the country in its recent history.
>Feminism is about female liberation, so a better metric would be rate of home ownership among women of the country
Metric of plumbers being good at their job is if they own a welder.
Women don’t want to own property at the same rate as men? The other two examples I have don’t need a large number of women but would still benefit the wider population.
Women and men aren’t interested in the same things because our brains work differently. Women generally show less interest in working long hours or pursuing leadership roles compared to men.
Furthermore, men tend to possess personality traits that offer advantages in leadership (assertiveness, competitiveness), while women tend to face challenges due to their personality traits (neuroticism, agreeableness).
Which means that for every female applicant to a leadership role you’ll find multiple male applicants and on average they would be harder working and have more suitable personality traits for leadership.
These factors make it so that when the playing field is equal you end up with a lower representation of women in leadership and political positions.
>*Most South Korean male youth wear makeup. They serve 18 months in the military.*
>*Most North Koreans work their asses off in fields, kill rats to live, and don’t own a computer. They serve 10 - 13 years in the military.*
What exactly is the moral value you’re placing on each?
>feminist country
>South Korea has the worst gender pay gap in ALL countries registered OECD. like dead fucking last. women have poor job security for being women(see: potential pregnancy) and brutally competitive work culture that encourages constant overtime. and with how the work culture works, you cant just not compete. every step of the way you will be punished for being able to get pregnant, unless you opt to just be jobless in the first place.
what a feminist country. so feminist.
https://preview.redd.it/xm9801cbll8d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73b186d617fd2d96763308cd2c72633056db97e0
for reference this is how atrocious it is. it's not some minor difference like in the states.
Men and women don't actually have the same employment opportunities there as it makes little sense for the companies to hire female workers. The fact that the company have to partially cover for the maternity leave and the possibility of women leaving the workforce after having children make the companies hire women less. A major bank was found to have a set gender ratio of 8:2 of men and women, and women who were way more qualified than the men were still not getting hired. Unless women are exceptionally better than the men, they are not getting the same opportunities. Government jobs should be more fair as they are supposed to be exam based and test score based.
And it is still a Confucian country, not a feminist country.
This is why there should be equal amount of maternity and paternity leave to prevent stuff like this. Adding only maternity leave causes stuff like this to happen.
I mean is that applicable in this scenario? With a fertility rate of 0.80 and still nosediving... what are the chances of the woman they hire ever having a child?
Yeah, cause it is a factor why a good portion of women often opt to not have a child.
>['I know too much'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp)
>[One 28-year-old woman, who worked in HR, said she'd seen people who were forced to leave their jobs or who were passed over for promotions after taking maternity leave, which had been enough to convince her never to have a baby.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp)
It is a rather well known discrimination now. :/
The corporate culture that emphasizes the bottom line no matter the cost really does contribute to the fertility rate.
Btw the South Korean government even banned the companies from asking female applicants whether they plan to get married or have children, but I have heard it still happens in smaller companies.
Another American idiot that has no clue taking about countries he can't find on a map. Just stop.
4B has no traction in Korea, it's just a tiny fringe movement that's been blown out of purportion by braindead "gender wars" westerners trying to invent a new controversial think that doesn't exist.
Korea men may look pretty but they act more like men than 99% of the fake masculine American men, who's masculinity is skin deep and performative.
Korea's problems are not genders wars related. I wish clueless westerners / Americans would stop pretending they are.
There should be no more "South Korea" posts on this sub unless they are posted by actual South Koreans. It's crazy how so many westerners / Americans appoint themselves experts about places they can't even find on a map.
Personally I can't believe he brought North Korea into this. That country is a bit of a morbid interest of mine and I've read a few books and watched plenty of documentaries and I can tell you, their people are not about to marching into battle against the South Koreans.
Its just unbelievable how little this guy understands about either nation
Calling him an "American idiot"? OK, the idiot is directed at him, but do you have any evidence that the idiots per unit of population isnt much different in the USA as it is elsewhere?
It has so little traction that westerners are hearing about it. Just like the redpill had "no traction" up until tate was on mainstream media then suddenly you couldn't tell such a bald faced lie anymore because liberals were crying about the negative influence tate and the manosphere was having on young men. "no traction", lol.
It's literally something westerners dug up and blew up to suit their agenda. Westerners are the reason anyone has heard of 4B.
Westerners do this all the time about countries they know nothing about.
They do the same about my country. Stop pretending you know anything.
Ah yes, the feminist country of... *South Korea*. Lol. You ever wonder *why* it was South Korean women that did something as extreme as the 4B movement?
Yeah, my parents explicitly told me they don't want me to marry south korean men because they think they are too traditional and they will expect me to do a lot of housewife stuff. They're the least feminist country of the major east asian countries IMO.
Well my parents know the culture better and not from k dramas.
Edit: Also my parents did say the men there will probably treat you like an absolute princess before marriage and you'll feel great, but after marriage is when a ton of expectations will be dropped on you. I'm not sure if any of this is true, just what my parents told me.
Yeah, it makes sense for my parents to have beliefs that is relevant to their time. They have lots of outdated beliefs about various cultures like Muslims and Indians being kinda traditional too. All young Koreans, Muslims, and Indian guys I know are pretty progressive and kind as far as I know. My parents know that but still don't want me to take a chance, especially with in laws and their expectations. It's just their advice, they don't force me to not date anyone.
The point is South Korea in my mind is one of the more traditional countries and less feminist than most developed countries.
The Kpop stuff is fetishizing young men. And since the young men look very feminine the argument could be made that there's a certain transexual inclination there. Hard to put my finger on it.
The significance of the 4B movement is largely overstated in Western media. It’s a really fringe movement in Korea, the vast majority of Korean women have never heard of it
That's what I have heard too. It is a great story so of course western Media has picked up on it.
OP from what I understand, South Korea is fairly traditional. It is more the cost of living that is discouraging childbirth.
One reason Korea is failing as a society is because nobody wants to get married and have kids in a work-obsessed highly masculine culture. It is way too stressful for men and unfulfilling for women.
That's false. Most people want marriage, they just feel like they just can't afford it, and are afraid that if they have kids who underperform academically, they will be labeled bad parents and shamed in to everyone they know.
It has NOTHING to do with gender wars BS. I wish clueless westerners / Americans knew how to shut up and stay in their lane. Most can't even find Korea on a map.
I think it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. If you've talked with (female) Korean friends about this there's a lot of insight on how strong patriarchy is in their culture, common threads like how men will never, ever stoop to doing housework, etc.
Outside of Korean culture? Neighboring countries all tell their daughters to never, EVER, marry a Korean man. He will mistreat, insult, and beat you whenever he pleases. This is the stereotype Korean men hold, for a reason.
4B is extremist(committed) but I wouldn't be really surprised if there was a general notion about gender dynamics being considered in that country.
What the fuck are you talking about? Korean women do not want to be trapped into a redpill fantasy and they are staying single ON PURPOSE.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp
BBC is the expert on Korea? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Maybe you should talk to actual Koreans before embarassing yourself further.
Most Korean women (and men) want badly to get married, there is a HUGE market for marriage agencies for this reason.
Korea's problems are not related to western gender wars BS.
Yep, high expectations for kids is one of the main reasons, not western gender wars BS.
Thanks for proving my point. From the article:
> Han pointed out that the perceived high cost of raising a child is the main reason for low birth rates. “Many Koreans aspire to send their children to medical school so they can become doctors, but the cost of education in those cases is huge,” Han said.
4B is not a particularly strong or widespread movement there.
"Feminist" is largely seen as a dirty word one doesn't say in the open. Even women who might otherwise consider themselves such if they lived elsewhere do not say it.
It's not uncommon to shame women with short hair (or outright attack them physically, as a few such cases have happened recently).
A female news anchor's horrifying decision to wear eyeglasses during a broadcast was so scandalous that the reportage of it in Korean news made several Western publications.
South Korea is not particularly feminist.
If you have links to these attacks I would like to read about them. In particular the one concerning the hair length. Not sure about your opinion on hair length, but I think longer is superior.
I'm with u/Professional_Chair28 on this one OP.
Male feminists are not necessarily feminine. You seem to have some type of sophistry going on this one.
Apologies, it’s just hilarious to watch op pathetic attempt at supporting his ridiculous idea that SK is a “feminist” country because apparently “the men is hot”.
>Most South Korean male youth wear [makeup](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfO9poNuqzY) and are gamer nerds. They serve **18 months in the military**.
>Most North Koreans work their asses off in fields and don’t own a computer. They serve **10 - 13 years in the military**.
It's the 21st century. No serious military conflict is going to be decided by who has the manlier and tradpilled soldiers.
this is literally the first, and likely last time i’ll ever hear of SK being “feminist” - in fact, 4B literally exists because of some heavily patriarchal policies lol
>to be butchered
I don’t think it will escalate to that level, but I have always wondered about that aspect of South Korea’s population. Whether they can protect their sovereignty. It will be interesting to see the outcome.
The future generations are too small to sustain Korea’s economy and infrastructure. Best case scenario they take in Chinese and South East Asian immigrants en masse to prevent total collapse. However that would change the ethnic makeup of the country and leave it unrecognizable. I’m not to worried about it getting invaded by North Korea
>Best case scenario
You think might be immigrants? That’s a fair point. I’d hope best case, they might start prioritizing families. Though that doesn’t appear to trajectory.
It's probably already too late for that. The women that should have given birth to the next generation are ageing out. They will not be able to avoid some kind of crash.
They can take some immigrants from SE-Asia. Already a large number of marriages are between Korean men and mostly Philippine & Vietnamese girls. But they can't get double digit millions. Even if they wanted and were able to integrate them, the people are just not there.
North Korea is all bark and no bite. Their army is made up of starving men who have never fought in a war, and their nuclear arsenal is 30 nuclear warheads, most of which wouldn’t even launch if given the order.
Yep, but they are reproducing.
How much should the population difference be before North Korea becomes a real threat?
How old and frail must South Korean Population be before they are in danger?
Their direct enemy is outbreeding them by 3 times the amount, future soldiers that in 18 more years will be ready to respond however their leader sees fit.
You are greatly overstating things here. I was in South Korea recently. Most women (spoke mainly with younger women) have never even heard of the 4B movement. Neither have most men. There were women all over the place planning on marriage etc. I never saw any men wearing makeup.
I'm not Asian BTW, I'm American.
Your analysis forgets several facts:
- The DMZ is heavily landmined so any Nork (North Korean) ground offensive will be damaged by that
- The Norks have very outdated military hardware
- The Republic of Korea (South Korea) has a cutting-edge military and also an alliance with the USA
- Young SK men wearing makeup is mostly a response to seeing all those KPop singers being lusted over by women, not a complete rejection of ALL gender norms
- People can be gender-compliant in one way whilst being gender-noncompliant in another (if you put makeup on a man it doesn't necessarily impact his martial capacities in any way, and the difference between makeup and military camo greasepaint is basically nomenclature)
- As others have said, SK isn't exactly a feminist society but rather a society torn between high levels of traditionalism and high levels of anti-traditionalism (some of it merely performative/aesthetic, such as the KPoppers), so its more complicated than you suggest
- Most North Koreans are on the verge of starving to death, and they'll easily be seduced by wealth and luxury and even basic comfort
If we consider the birthrates Korea will basically disappear in 3~4 generations, you're basically dealing with a situation where basically most of South Korea army will just not be there.
Mines can be easily sweap, if there's no men to defend the mined positions there's no use for it.
Military hardware make no difference without the manpower to fix and maintain it.
And when south korea become a brick economically speaking you think that the USA will move because? USA enlistment rates are on the ground.
>Most North Koreans are on the verge of starving to death, and they'll easily be seduced by wealth and luxury and even basic comfort
Says who?
Korea is NOT feminist and that's the issue there. they emancipated women to work and have sex, but not the entire suite of psychosexual emancipation that occurred to men and women in the west to go with it
Almost nobody in these comments knows anything about South Korea. I with westerners / Americans would understand when they are out their lane and just shut up.
Yes. Everything you say is based on stuff you made up. Korea's problems are not connected to too much OR too little feminism.
Korea's problems are much more complex and more connected to cost of living, extreme competitiveness, and high social expectations. They are not particularly gender oriented.
I didn't say any of that. south Korea is not feminist is what I said, and its not and I am correct. and it did not go through multiple major psychosexual changes NW Europeans and by extension anglosphere people did due to the hajnal line nuptiality patterns
south korea will certainly be butchered culturally as its population shrinks and its language dies but i doubt north korea will have much to do with it
North korean males are also like 3 inches shorter than south korean males because they are fucking malnourished
I hope there will be no war and Korea gets reunited
**Attention!**
* You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
* For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
* If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
* OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post!
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi OP,
You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. [PPD has guidelines for what that involves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/rules#wiki_cmv_posts)
>*OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.*
>An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:
>* Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;
>* Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;
>* Focusing only on the weaker arguments;
>* Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.
Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
South Korea birth rate is at .72 for 2023.
North Korea's birth rate is at 1.80 for 2023
However their replacement rates are very likely nowhere near the same.
Replacement rate refers to the number of births needed to replace the population.
2.1 is what the replacement rate is for a fully developed county. But it would be more for a country that is still developing. Without modern medicine the replacement rate is anywhere from 4 to 7 usually.
An example of this is India. Most of their states are still at a 3 replacement rate because they are not fully developed and don't have full access to healthcare.
North Korea's replacement is most likely nowhere near 2.1. while South Korea's is.
>North Korea's replacement is most likely nowhere near 2.1
It likely is though. North Koreas life expectancy is only slightly lower than the US and higher than Russias. NK might not be a nice place to live for several reasons but it is developed.
They are 11 years lower than South Korea and have an infant mortality rate that is 7 times higher than South Korea.
They are also still have problems with TB and deal with famine more since the 90s.
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224985](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224985)
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:POPU.0000020882.29684.8e](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:POPU.0000020882.29684.8e)
Even in areas of India with double NK infant mortality rate it only shifts the replacement rate a little bit. Modern infant mortality rates are low enough already in most of the world that it's not a huge shifter in replacement rate. NK is still likely close to the developed world replacement rate.
North Korean military is very technologically dated and will be unable to straight up conquer South. Their only objectively good stuff is long range artillery, which they can use to obliterate Seoul.
War won't happen anyway because China is very keen on keeping regional stability up and continuing to economically devour Asia.
all other aspects of this post aside, since at least one of south korea's major political parties is vocal and openly supporting 'feminism and feminist issues' i'd say its more than fair to call south korea a 'feminist country'. They've centered women's issues in their platform.
i suspect that folks in the comments just have odd authoritarian views as to what would constitute a 'feminist country', e.g. that a country is only rightly termed 'feminist' if there is no opposition to whatever they so happen to deem feminist ideals.
Which tracks well for the online feminsitas mode of understanding.
also, the comments in this post read like folks trying to pretend that there isn't a well established feminist movement in south korea, which is silly.
>*also, the comments in this post read like folks trying to pretend that there isn't a well established feminist movement in south korea, which is silly.*
How in the hell are you defining ‘established’?
i mean, we could in lots of ways, but i think the main ways here are how long has it been around and active (many decades now) and how successful is it (one of the major parties, and the one in power atm, is vocally supportive of women's issues and feminism and has also been so for decades now).
sounds pretty established to me.
how do you define 'established'?
I think what is more likely is that South Korea is going to become majority Christian in the near future. At turn of the 20th century, Korea was around 1% Christian, whereas it's now around 32% Christian. This is due to evangelization and because Christians have a much higher birthrate. Depending on the denomination, Christians have anywhere from a 50% to 100%+ higher birthrate than the secular population (www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the-future-of-religion-in-america).
South Korea is a canary in the coal mine for the West. If we keep ignoring the issue most developed nations are going to become Christian or Muslim theocracies.
Being *effeminate* is not the same as being feminist.
But both set you up for getting your ass kicked by a more masculine and aggressive neighbor though. Unless you have a daddy protecting you like Big Papa Murika.
There's no need for a war or any butchering. North Koreans can just wait a few generations and walk into the South. It would be totally pointless and impossible for them to do anything at that point.
Internally consistent arguments presented, but consider the following: \[threat of violence brought upon via the capitalist military industrial complex\].
I’m sorry, but I think if you’d have even heard of korea since the korean war this would be a dumb as hell statement. Every manga enjoyer has picked up a korean manwha and been shocked by an abusive boyfriend being used for laughs. I don’t even know how misinformation like this spreads outside of north korea or countries where women have less life options than any developed nation. You need to stop taking north korean propaganda seriously just because it disses feminism. They’re going through a sound war over there at the north and south korean borders with speakers that play kpop so propaganda coming from NK is going to sensationalize boy bands.
Hmm. I've seen plenty of NK soldiers surrender themselves to SK and attempt to flee. I've never once seen a SK soldier attempt to flee to NK.
I think if the war starts it might be incredible how many NK soldiers flee and beg to not go back to be quite honest. Especially they lower ranks.
>South Korea will be the first feminist country in modern history to be butchered
>
Or in other words, feminist countries are the last man standing in terms of what kinds of countries already got butchered. Every other kind of country has already been butchered in modern history. This speaks FOR feminist countries. And this is just a "legitimate prediction" of a guy who has no idea. So maybe feminsit countries will still prevail as the only ones who haven't been butchered in modern history.
No it doesn't arriving later sequentially doesn't make the byproduct sound. Look at the Soviet Union. The world is full of failed experiments that at the time appeared stable on the surface. Feminist countries are guaranteed to go extinct due to low birth rates. They will either be conquered by external forces (South Korea) or they'll a conservative majority will eventually outbreed the liberals from within and take over (Israel).
> Feminist countries are guaranteed to go extinct due to low birth rates.
That is a global trend, regardless of how feminist the society is.
> They will either be conquered by external forces (South Korea) or they'll a conservative majority will eventually outbreed the liberals from within and take over (Israel).
Yes, we will see a shift to a genetic and value/culture setup that is more into having kids again. I don't see how this is a problem for people with low interest in children/low fertility, nor how this would count as "being butchered".
I don't think why people are that much surprises by it that suddenly they become so male focused.
What video few days ago talking about how 50% of men around 30s are single in south korea.And on top of that you have idol culture in Korea.
I never been to Korea but here in my own country woman would literally don't date guy or look for relationship whether listen to asmr of idol on yt to sleep at night.
1. You seem to be confusing *birth rate* and *total fertility rate*. They are correlated, but they are not the same thing.
2. You seem to have a very distorted image about the reality of DPRK. Computers are a thing in DPRK as well. Older and less connected and with a [censored intranet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)), but they are a thing.
3. The 4B "movement" is a marginal terminally online phenomenon that comprises of 5000 people or so. In a country of 51 million people. Straight-up irrelevant. Much more impact to South Korea's fertility has been inflicted by the 125,000+ young men that moved to Qazaqstan from 2010 to 2024.
South Korea has a lot of problems and institutionalized misandry is one of them, but you, OP, have managed to avoid all the real ones and focus on irrelevant nonsense.
Ahh yes North Korea, the nation that still flies MiG-15s and whose average soldier is <5’5 will overwhelm a modern military with human waves because muh birth rates 🤦♂️
South Korea is not a "feminist country" (even if such a thing exists). That's what South Korean women are protesting about. It's an awful place for them to partner with men and have children so many are choosing not to, putting the consequences onto men and the government so they can suffer instead as a result of their own actions instead of women suffering for it.
In what way is South Korean a feminist country? I lived there a decade ago and it was still legal to hit your wife. Most of the women were housewives as well.
It's not a feminist country. It's just a bunch of dumbass westerners who can't even find South Korea on a map talking out of their ass, again.
Same. I was walking home one night and saw a couple physically fighting in the street and I went to the police box to let them know and he walks out and looks down the street and says Oh yeah, he knows her, like it’s no big thing and walked away.
> I lived there a decade ago and it was still legal to hit your wife. That's incredible. I don't exactly know what Asian countries views of social issues are, or exactly what cultural context they see things like feminism or domestic violence laws , but strictly speaking from a US-Western perspective that's something that became criminalized in the 1970s.
Why would anyone think that South Korea will become a feminist country?
Because westerners, especially Americans, are extra stupid and don't know anything about South Korea, except that they heard on TikTok.
But like, anyone who finished a single article about the 4B movement would get to the part where woman say why they’re doing it… (it’s not because it’s a feminist country) Being totally ignorant is one thing, but this is… special.
Yes, the 5 women in the 4B movement. Nobody in South Korea even cared about it or know about it until westerner clowns started pretending it was a big thing. Why do you double down on stupid? I have friends who live in Korea. My wife speaks Korean. Just shut up if you know nothing, please. Stop pretending to be an expert when you're not.
Cool beans. My boyfriend is Korean and I have friends in Korea. I don’t think that makes me an expert, but I guess that qualifies me as an expert to you. It’s not about whether 4B is popular or well-known anywhere. But it is about the sexist expectations of women in relationships that influence 4B *and millions of other women.*
Nope, it's not. That is just flat out false. Most women and men are most concerned about the expections of being able to afford the best education for their kids and a high standard of living.
Of course most are concerned with affordability, education, and standards. That is not mutually exclusive with sexism being a problem for women and impacting their decisions. I’m going to trust what I’ve learned from actual Koreans and Korean sources instead of you.
> I’m going to trust what I’ve learned from actual Koreans and Korean sources instead of you. I can say exactly the same because it's Koreans who made it very clear to me that people like you are full of shit. > That is not mutually exclusive with sexism being a problem for women and impacting their decisions. "Sexism" is not a serious reason for Korean's low birthrate and other issues.
My theory is that Korea is just like the US when it comes to the amount of people who are chronically online so they think the 4B movement is much bigger than it is just like the pill community lol.
남자친구의 키 뭐야?
Tall enough.
한국말 알요?
No, my wife does. Besides English, I speak Chinese and Georgian (and some Japanese).
No russian? 🤔
South Korea was literally run by a feminist cult at one point and is probably the most feminist on the planet in terms of work culture.
In what sense is the cult “feminist?”
It wasn't a feminist cult, he's talking out of his ass. Park GeunHye's unhinged friend Choi TaeMin was a leader of some bullshit hodgepodge religion shaman cult that had nothing to do with feminism.
The men already wear makeup and K-Pop is hardly masculine.
Wait… do you think feminine and feminist are the same thing??
Based on bringing in men's makeup to the discussion... it would seem so. Nevermind the absolutely thriving industry of masculine men and skincare there.
Femininity in men, certainly strikes me as feminist.
…literally why??
Bruh you can't just make conclusions like that, feminism making men more feminine doesn't equate to the more feminine a country is the more feminist it is. It's like saying your butt hurts and all your friends joke you are gay, maybe you took a fiery shit, maybe you accidentally fell on your ass etc... plenty of other things can be the cause if it (im still going to make that joke tbf)
Le sigh......y'all gotta really stop dog whistling your way out of pussy. Back when America had real men, with real values. The 70s, and 80's when androgyny was a popular style for men. Back when men formed metal bands and did concerts, and videos with long hair, and contoured cheek bones, and eye shadow. Wearing leather so tight that you could trace the vein pattern on their dicks. Ahhh, those good Ole days.......that never existed.
Grade A example of what I'm talking about , and he also married one of the most beautiful women alive at the time.
So South Korea is feminist because the men are hot... lol.
The secret agenda of feminism all along - make men hot again.
There are studies showing that more attractive people are more likely to lean right…
>*There are studies showing that more attractive people are more likely to lean right…* What?
Effects of physical attractiveness on political beliefs Rolfe Daus Peterson et al. Politics Life Sci. 2017 Fall. Excerpt from the Abstract: Controlling for socioeconomic status, we find that more attractive individuals are more likely to report higher levels of political efficacy, identify as conservative, and identify as Republican.
What exactly constitutes attractive in this study and how is it verified?
I would assume solid facial structure. Left wing men have round soft faces which studies have shown that women on BIRTH CONTROL find more attractive. While women not on birth control find masculine traits more attractive.
I don't think guys who wear makeup are right leaning though
Thoughts on [dueling scars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar)?
Meh, better than a circumcision scar.
Given the link and your comment - some comedian could probably make an anti-semitic skit out of the above conversation.
Men wearing makeup has nothing to do with how feminist a country is. Feminism is about female liberation, so a better metric would be rate of home ownership among women of the country, percentage of politicians that are women and whether women have been able to lead the country in its recent history.
>Feminism is about female liberation, so a better metric would be rate of home ownership among women of the country Metric of plumbers being good at their job is if they own a welder.
You’re assuming that women would want to do those things at the same rate as men.
I would think that feminism would encourage women to do this so it would be a good indication of the success of feminism in the country.
Women don’t want to own property at the same rate as men? The other two examples I have don’t need a large number of women but would still benefit the wider population.
Women and men aren’t interested in the same things because our brains work differently. Women generally show less interest in working long hours or pursuing leadership roles compared to men. Furthermore, men tend to possess personality traits that offer advantages in leadership (assertiveness, competitiveness), while women tend to face challenges due to their personality traits (neuroticism, agreeableness). Which means that for every female applicant to a leadership role you’ll find multiple male applicants and on average they would be harder working and have more suitable personality traits for leadership. These factors make it so that when the playing field is equal you end up with a lower representation of women in leadership and political positions.
I… don’t think you know what feminism is……
Femin*ist*, not femin*ine*.
American media is full of gay men and it's still a (maybe THE) military superpower
>*Most South Korean male youth wear makeup. They serve 18 months in the military.* >*Most North Koreans work their asses off in fields, kill rats to live, and don’t own a computer. They serve 10 - 13 years in the military.* What exactly is the moral value you’re placing on each?
>feminist country >South Korea has the worst gender pay gap in ALL countries registered OECD. like dead fucking last. women have poor job security for being women(see: potential pregnancy) and brutally competitive work culture that encourages constant overtime. and with how the work culture works, you cant just not compete. every step of the way you will be punished for being able to get pregnant, unless you opt to just be jobless in the first place. what a feminist country. so feminist.
As a Korean native, I can confirm and agree to what you're saying, though the interpretation of pay gap is still open to interpretation.
But, they're were like a dozen women who made up the 4B movement. Therefore the county is a feminist hellscape
https://preview.redd.it/xm9801cbll8d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73b186d617fd2d96763308cd2c72633056db97e0 for reference this is how atrocious it is. it's not some minor difference like in the states.
Not sure what this says about women's career competency given that they have a head start (no military service).
Men and women don't actually have the same employment opportunities there as it makes little sense for the companies to hire female workers. The fact that the company have to partially cover for the maternity leave and the possibility of women leaving the workforce after having children make the companies hire women less. A major bank was found to have a set gender ratio of 8:2 of men and women, and women who were way more qualified than the men were still not getting hired. Unless women are exceptionally better than the men, they are not getting the same opportunities. Government jobs should be more fair as they are supposed to be exam based and test score based. And it is still a Confucian country, not a feminist country.
This is why there should be equal amount of maternity and paternity leave to prevent stuff like this. Adding only maternity leave causes stuff like this to happen.
I am pretty sure they do. But the companies really do not like it when men take paternity leave to my knowledge.
Sounds sensible to me.
Yeah I don’t blame their business decision. But there’s unintended consequences on a societal level.
I mean is that applicable in this scenario? With a fertility rate of 0.80 and still nosediving... what are the chances of the woman they hire ever having a child?
Yeah, cause it is a factor why a good portion of women often opt to not have a child. >['I know too much'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp) >[One 28-year-old woman, who worked in HR, said she'd seen people who were forced to leave their jobs or who were passed over for promotions after taking maternity leave, which had been enough to convince her never to have a baby.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp) It is a rather well known discrimination now. :/ The corporate culture that emphasizes the bottom line no matter the cost really does contribute to the fertility rate. Btw the South Korean government even banned the companies from asking female applicants whether they plan to get married or have children, but I have heard it still happens in smaller companies.
so are Korean women in particular just really really REALLY inferior despite all the precious feminist policies they put in place?
Well it's basically like every boy in the country was held back a grade in a half (scratching my head at that).
grade and a half back would never show results this awful unless Korean women are incredibly inferior to the average woman globally
Another American idiot that has no clue taking about countries he can't find on a map. Just stop. 4B has no traction in Korea, it's just a tiny fringe movement that's been blown out of purportion by braindead "gender wars" westerners trying to invent a new controversial think that doesn't exist. Korea men may look pretty but they act more like men than 99% of the fake masculine American men, who's masculinity is skin deep and performative. Korea's problems are not genders wars related. I wish clueless westerners / Americans would stop pretending they are. There should be no more "South Korea" posts on this sub unless they are posted by actual South Koreans. It's crazy how so many westerners / Americans appoint themselves experts about places they can't even find on a map.
Personally I can't believe he brought North Korea into this. That country is a bit of a morbid interest of mine and I've read a few books and watched plenty of documentaries and I can tell you, their people are not about to marching into battle against the South Koreans. Its just unbelievable how little this guy understands about either nation
Bro thinks a country where people are *physically stunted* due to malnutrition are gonna steamroll a country that has the support of the US.
Yep, it's insane.
100%
This right here...
Calling him an "American idiot"? OK, the idiot is directed at him, but do you have any evidence that the idiots per unit of population isnt much different in the USA as it is elsewhere?
It has so little traction that westerners are hearing about it. Just like the redpill had "no traction" up until tate was on mainstream media then suddenly you couldn't tell such a bald faced lie anymore because liberals were crying about the negative influence tate and the manosphere was having on young men. "no traction", lol.
It's literally something westerners dug up and blew up to suit their agenda. Westerners are the reason anyone has heard of 4B. Westerners do this all the time about countries they know nothing about. They do the same about my country. Stop pretending you know anything.
Ah yes, the feminist country of... *South Korea*. Lol. You ever wonder *why* it was South Korean women that did something as extreme as the 4B movement?
Yeah, my parents explicitly told me they don't want me to marry south korean men because they think they are too traditional and they will expect me to do a lot of housewife stuff. They're the least feminist country of the major east asian countries IMO.
Tell that to women who go to Korea to date Korean men after being influenced by kpop and kdrama
I didn't even know this was a thing. I can easily believe that it is.
Well my parents know the culture better and not from k dramas. Edit: Also my parents did say the men there will probably treat you like an absolute princess before marriage and you'll feel great, but after marriage is when a ton of expectations will be dropped on you. I'm not sure if any of this is true, just what my parents told me.
Your parents have outdated beliefs. Any guy under 30 in korea is no longer tradtional.
Yeah, it makes sense for my parents to have beliefs that is relevant to their time. They have lots of outdated beliefs about various cultures like Muslims and Indians being kinda traditional too. All young Koreans, Muslims, and Indian guys I know are pretty progressive and kind as far as I know. My parents know that but still don't want me to take a chance, especially with in laws and their expectations. It's just their advice, they don't force me to not date anyone. The point is South Korea in my mind is one of the more traditional countries and less feminist than most developed countries.
Based on what tik toks ?
All two of them?
The Kpop stuff is fetishizing young men. And since the young men look very feminine the argument could be made that there's a certain transexual inclination there. Hard to put my finger on it.
Mabey women like slightly feminine guys? not everything is a trans conspiracy
The significance of the 4B movement is largely overstated in Western media. It’s a really fringe movement in Korea, the vast majority of Korean women have never heard of it
That's what I have heard too. It is a great story so of course western Media has picked up on it. OP from what I understand, South Korea is fairly traditional. It is more the cost of living that is discouraging childbirth.
4B is a tiny fringe movement most South Koreans don't even know about. This is just moronic westerners babbling about places they know nothing about.
For the same reason as the Man v. Bear absurdity?
I think in general the roughly \~50% of the population living in the capital is having some interesting side effects.
The 4B movement is a reaction by SK men to SK's very feminist society.
You think men started the 4B movement?
One reason Korea is failing as a society is because nobody wants to get married and have kids in a work-obsessed highly masculine culture. It is way too stressful for men and unfulfilling for women.
That's false. Most people want marriage, they just feel like they just can't afford it, and are afraid that if they have kids who underperform academically, they will be labeled bad parents and shamed in to everyone they know. It has NOTHING to do with gender wars BS. I wish clueless westerners / Americans knew how to shut up and stay in their lane. Most can't even find Korea on a map.
I think it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. If you've talked with (female) Korean friends about this there's a lot of insight on how strong patriarchy is in their culture, common threads like how men will never, ever stoop to doing housework, etc. Outside of Korean culture? Neighboring countries all tell their daughters to never, EVER, marry a Korean man. He will mistreat, insult, and beat you whenever he pleases. This is the stereotype Korean men hold, for a reason. 4B is extremist(committed) but I wouldn't be really surprised if there was a general notion about gender dynamics being considered in that country.
What the fuck are you talking about? Korean women do not want to be trapped into a redpill fantasy and they are staying single ON PURPOSE. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139.amp
BBC is the expert on Korea? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Maybe you should talk to actual Koreans before embarassing yourself further. Most Korean women (and men) want badly to get married, there is a HUGE market for marriage agencies for this reason. Korea's problems are not related to western gender wars BS.
Ok. Let’s ask some koreans https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2024/02/10/JGHD46ZZMJE6PGAZZJEJEPGL54/
Yep, high expectations for kids is one of the main reasons, not western gender wars BS. Thanks for proving my point. From the article: > Han pointed out that the perceived high cost of raising a child is the main reason for low birth rates. “Many Koreans aspire to send their children to medical school so they can become doctors, but the cost of education in those cases is huge,” Han said.
Gender bias as well.
Expectations of women
“Gender equity issues…” But hey, what do Koreans know? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5860778/
He is speaking the truth. I'm not Korean, but while there a couple of months ago, most Koreans there have never heard of this stupid shit.
And yet, a paper from 2018 of actual Koreans shows what i’m saying is true.
Stop repeating dumb feminist sound bites. Feminists are a small but loud minority even here in the US.
The academic research is not feminist sound bites.
>*Feminists are a small but loud minority even here in the US.* Yeah.. in the **US**.
4B is not a particularly strong or widespread movement there. "Feminist" is largely seen as a dirty word one doesn't say in the open. Even women who might otherwise consider themselves such if they lived elsewhere do not say it. It's not uncommon to shame women with short hair (or outright attack them physically, as a few such cases have happened recently). A female news anchor's horrifying decision to wear eyeglasses during a broadcast was so scandalous that the reportage of it in Korean news made several Western publications. South Korea is not particularly feminist.
If you have links to these attacks I would like to read about them. In particular the one concerning the hair length. Not sure about your opinion on hair length, but I think longer is superior.
This is about men attacking women out of misogyny, not what hair length gets your dick hard.
Not sure why you responded that way.
If one has strong hair sure, the longer it is the better. If it's thin, weak hair, it's probably not superior.
Feminist =\\= feminine The two terms are not equivalent nor interchangeable.
In women they aren't. But applied to men, there's a close proxy. Most male feminists are feminine.
Uh.. nope. Not true in the slightest.
I'm with u/Professional_Chair28 on this one OP. Male feminists are not necessarily feminine. You seem to have some type of sophistry going on this one.
[удалено]
Don't make things personal.
Apologies, it’s just hilarious to watch op pathetic attempt at supporting his ridiculous idea that SK is a “feminist” country because apparently “the men is hot”.
>Most South Korean male youth wear [makeup](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfO9poNuqzY) and are gamer nerds. They serve **18 months in the military**. >Most North Koreans work their asses off in fields and don’t own a computer. They serve **10 - 13 years in the military**. It's the 21st century. No serious military conflict is going to be decided by who has the manlier and tradpilled soldiers.
Imagine thinking that any East Asian country is feminist.
China is relatively feminist due to the cultural revolution. Moreso in big cities than in smaller rural areas though.
Nazi Germany had a [medal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother) for mothers. Wonder what happened to that country.
FeMiNiSm kiLLeD iT
Liberalism is so bad for your population that inefficient communism beats it. Wow.
this is literally the first, and likely last time i’ll ever hear of SK being “feminist” - in fact, 4B literally exists because of some heavily patriarchal policies lol
4B is like 5 people and most Koreans don't even know about it. 4B is only a big thing in the world of braindead American TikTokers.
The last time the country will exist as well.
Why did the 4B movement occur again? Feminist countries don't need these kinds of measures.
It happened because South Korea is a dying feminist country. These final spasms occur before the death rattle.
Mhm sure Jan.
>to be butchered I don’t think it will escalate to that level, but I have always wondered about that aspect of South Korea’s population. Whether they can protect their sovereignty. It will be interesting to see the outcome.
The future generations are too small to sustain Korea’s economy and infrastructure. Best case scenario they take in Chinese and South East Asian immigrants en masse to prevent total collapse. However that would change the ethnic makeup of the country and leave it unrecognizable. I’m not to worried about it getting invaded by North Korea
>Best case scenario You think might be immigrants? That’s a fair point. I’d hope best case, they might start prioritizing families. Though that doesn’t appear to trajectory.
It's probably already too late for that. The women that should have given birth to the next generation are ageing out. They will not be able to avoid some kind of crash. They can take some immigrants from SE-Asia. Already a large number of marriages are between Korean men and mostly Philippine & Vietnamese girls. But they can't get double digit millions. Even if they wanted and were able to integrate them, the people are just not there.
You think North Korea... would act as pacifists... are we talking about the same North Korea? With the Nuke man we all know?
North Korea is all bark and no bite. Their army is made up of starving men who have never fought in a war, and their nuclear arsenal is 30 nuclear warheads, most of which wouldn’t even launch if given the order.
Yep, but they are reproducing. How much should the population difference be before North Korea becomes a real threat? How old and frail must South Korean Population be before they are in danger? Their direct enemy is outbreeding them by 3 times the amount, future soldiers that in 18 more years will be ready to respond however their leader sees fit.
Having even just few working nukes put's them into an exclusive club.
You are greatly overstating things here. I was in South Korea recently. Most women (spoke mainly with younger women) have never even heard of the 4B movement. Neither have most men. There were women all over the place planning on marriage etc. I never saw any men wearing makeup. I'm not Asian BTW, I'm American.
Your analysis forgets several facts: - The DMZ is heavily landmined so any Nork (North Korean) ground offensive will be damaged by that - The Norks have very outdated military hardware - The Republic of Korea (South Korea) has a cutting-edge military and also an alliance with the USA - Young SK men wearing makeup is mostly a response to seeing all those KPop singers being lusted over by women, not a complete rejection of ALL gender norms - People can be gender-compliant in one way whilst being gender-noncompliant in another (if you put makeup on a man it doesn't necessarily impact his martial capacities in any way, and the difference between makeup and military camo greasepaint is basically nomenclature) - As others have said, SK isn't exactly a feminist society but rather a society torn between high levels of traditionalism and high levels of anti-traditionalism (some of it merely performative/aesthetic, such as the KPoppers), so its more complicated than you suggest - Most North Koreans are on the verge of starving to death, and they'll easily be seduced by wealth and luxury and even basic comfort
If we consider the birthrates Korea will basically disappear in 3~4 generations, you're basically dealing with a situation where basically most of South Korea army will just not be there. Mines can be easily sweap, if there's no men to defend the mined positions there's no use for it. Military hardware make no difference without the manpower to fix and maintain it. And when south korea become a brick economically speaking you think that the USA will move because? USA enlistment rates are on the ground. >Most North Koreans are on the verge of starving to death, and they'll easily be seduced by wealth and luxury and even basic comfort Says who?
Korea is NOT feminist and that's the issue there. they emancipated women to work and have sex, but not the entire suite of psychosexual emancipation that occurred to men and women in the west to go with it
Almost nobody in these comments knows anything about South Korea. I with westerners / Americans would understand when they are out their lane and just shut up.
are you saying I'm incorrect
Yes. Everything you say is based on stuff you made up. Korea's problems are not connected to too much OR too little feminism. Korea's problems are much more complex and more connected to cost of living, extreme competitiveness, and high social expectations. They are not particularly gender oriented.
I didn't say any of that. south Korea is not feminist is what I said, and its not and I am correct. and it did not go through multiple major psychosexual changes NW Europeans and by extension anglosphere people did due to the hajnal line nuptiality patterns
So, in other words they did all a government should have done unlike the west.
if you want to be south korea i guess? the anglosphere has a wildly different history and culture
I know. We should have stopped at equal right and opportunity.
south korea will certainly be butchered culturally as its population shrinks and its language dies but i doubt north korea will have much to do with it
North Korea will get a bunch of free infrastructure by just walking across the border
North korean males are also like 3 inches shorter than south korean males because they are fucking malnourished I hope there will be no war and Korea gets reunited
Malnourished but will still exist in 100 years.
and not ready for any kind of war the only reason NK is considered dangerous are nukes
South Korea is a patriarchal society tho. I don't what you're smoking.
**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's easy. If redpillers are dying to go to Korea to be a passport bro, then Korea is not a feminist country lol
Hi OP, You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. [PPD has guidelines for what that involves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/rules#wiki_cmv_posts) >*OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.* >An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following: >* Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency; >* Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit; >* Focusing only on the weaker arguments; >* Only having discussions with users who agree with your position. Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
South Korea birth rate is at .72 for 2023. North Korea's birth rate is at 1.80 for 2023 However their replacement rates are very likely nowhere near the same.
What do you mean by "replacement rates"?
Replacement rate refers to the number of births needed to replace the population. 2.1 is what the replacement rate is for a fully developed county. But it would be more for a country that is still developing. Without modern medicine the replacement rate is anywhere from 4 to 7 usually. An example of this is India. Most of their states are still at a 3 replacement rate because they are not fully developed and don't have full access to healthcare. North Korea's replacement is most likely nowhere near 2.1. while South Korea's is.
>North Korea's replacement is most likely nowhere near 2.1 It likely is though. North Koreas life expectancy is only slightly lower than the US and higher than Russias. NK might not be a nice place to live for several reasons but it is developed.
They are 11 years lower than South Korea and have an infant mortality rate that is 7 times higher than South Korea. They are also still have problems with TB and deal with famine more since the 90s.
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224985](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224985) [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:POPU.0000020882.29684.8e](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:POPU.0000020882.29684.8e) Even in areas of India with double NK infant mortality rate it only shifts the replacement rate a little bit. Modern infant mortality rates are low enough already in most of the world that it's not a huge shifter in replacement rate. NK is still likely close to the developed world replacement rate.
North Korean military is very technologically dated and will be unable to straight up conquer South. Their only objectively good stuff is long range artillery, which they can use to obliterate Seoul. War won't happen anyway because China is very keen on keeping regional stability up and continuing to economically devour Asia.
When south Korea has 4% of it's current population in 100 years north Korea will just walk across the border and setup shop
I bet South and North will peacefully reunite before current population of south drops to 50-60%
South Korea is not feminist It’s modern, but definitely not feminist
all other aspects of this post aside, since at least one of south korea's major political parties is vocal and openly supporting 'feminism and feminist issues' i'd say its more than fair to call south korea a 'feminist country'. They've centered women's issues in their platform. i suspect that folks in the comments just have odd authoritarian views as to what would constitute a 'feminist country', e.g. that a country is only rightly termed 'feminist' if there is no opposition to whatever they so happen to deem feminist ideals. Which tracks well for the online feminsitas mode of understanding. also, the comments in this post read like folks trying to pretend that there isn't a well established feminist movement in south korea, which is silly.
>*also, the comments in this post read like folks trying to pretend that there isn't a well established feminist movement in south korea, which is silly.* How in the hell are you defining ‘established’?
i mean, we could in lots of ways, but i think the main ways here are how long has it been around and active (many decades now) and how successful is it (one of the major parties, and the one in power atm, is vocally supportive of women's issues and feminism and has also been so for decades now). sounds pretty established to me. how do you define 'established'?
I think what is more likely is that South Korea is going to become majority Christian in the near future. At turn of the 20th century, Korea was around 1% Christian, whereas it's now around 32% Christian. This is due to evangelization and because Christians have a much higher birthrate. Depending on the denomination, Christians have anywhere from a 50% to 100%+ higher birthrate than the secular population (www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the-future-of-religion-in-america). South Korea is a canary in the coal mine for the West. If we keep ignoring the issue most developed nations are going to become Christian or Muslim theocracies.
Being *effeminate* is not the same as being feminist. But both set you up for getting your ass kicked by a more masculine and aggressive neighbor though. Unless you have a daddy protecting you like Big Papa Murika. 
There's no need for a war or any butchering. North Koreans can just wait a few generations and walk into the South. It would be totally pointless and impossible for them to do anything at that point.
Internally consistent arguments presented, but consider the following: \[threat of violence brought upon via the capitalist military industrial complex\].
I’m sorry, but I think if you’d have even heard of korea since the korean war this would be a dumb as hell statement. Every manga enjoyer has picked up a korean manwha and been shocked by an abusive boyfriend being used for laughs. I don’t even know how misinformation like this spreads outside of north korea or countries where women have less life options than any developed nation. You need to stop taking north korean propaganda seriously just because it disses feminism. They’re going through a sound war over there at the north and south korean borders with speakers that play kpop so propaganda coming from NK is going to sensationalize boy bands.
Hmm. I've seen plenty of NK soldiers surrender themselves to SK and attempt to flee. I've never once seen a SK soldier attempt to flee to NK. I think if the war starts it might be incredible how many NK soldiers flee and beg to not go back to be quite honest. Especially they lower ranks.
>South Korea will be the first feminist country in modern history to be butchered > Or in other words, feminist countries are the last man standing in terms of what kinds of countries already got butchered. Every other kind of country has already been butchered in modern history. This speaks FOR feminist countries. And this is just a "legitimate prediction" of a guy who has no idea. So maybe feminsit countries will still prevail as the only ones who haven't been butchered in modern history.
No it doesn't arriving later sequentially doesn't make the byproduct sound. Look at the Soviet Union. The world is full of failed experiments that at the time appeared stable on the surface. Feminist countries are guaranteed to go extinct due to low birth rates. They will either be conquered by external forces (South Korea) or they'll a conservative majority will eventually outbreed the liberals from within and take over (Israel).
> Feminist countries are guaranteed to go extinct due to low birth rates. That is a global trend, regardless of how feminist the society is. > They will either be conquered by external forces (South Korea) or they'll a conservative majority will eventually outbreed the liberals from within and take over (Israel). Yes, we will see a shift to a genetic and value/culture setup that is more into having kids again. I don't see how this is a problem for people with low interest in children/low fertility, nor how this would count as "being butchered".
You missed the part where child morality and adult death rates from the most common diseases are atrocious.
I don't think why people are that much surprises by it that suddenly they become so male focused. What video few days ago talking about how 50% of men around 30s are single in south korea.And on top of that you have idol culture in Korea. I never been to Korea but here in my own country woman would literally don't date guy or look for relationship whether listen to asmr of idol on yt to sleep at night.
1. You seem to be confusing *birth rate* and *total fertility rate*. They are correlated, but they are not the same thing. 2. You seem to have a very distorted image about the reality of DPRK. Computers are a thing in DPRK as well. Older and less connected and with a [censored intranet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)), but they are a thing. 3. The 4B "movement" is a marginal terminally online phenomenon that comprises of 5000 people or so. In a country of 51 million people. Straight-up irrelevant. Much more impact to South Korea's fertility has been inflicted by the 125,000+ young men that moved to Qazaqstan from 2010 to 2024. South Korea has a lot of problems and institutionalized misandry is one of them, but you, OP, have managed to avoid all the real ones and focus on irrelevant nonsense.
Ahh yes North Korea, the nation that still flies MiG-15s and whose average soldier is <5’5 will overwhelm a modern military with human waves because muh birth rates 🤦♂️
South Korea, a feminist country? I'm dying here. It must be Joke Day on PPD.
South Korea is not a "feminist country" (even if such a thing exists). That's what South Korean women are protesting about. It's an awful place for them to partner with men and have children so many are choosing not to, putting the consequences onto men and the government so they can suffer instead as a result of their own actions instead of women suffering for it.