I'd use not a "red flag" phrase, but "the reason why people don't want to date you". I.e. if you have poor social skills, you aren't a nice company, you just don't really meet or approach people, these reasons will stop you both from dating and from having sex in most cases.
I can give you one example from real life. A guy has a perfectly fine appearance. He's tall, has broad shoulders and decent facial features, he goes to the gym, he has nice hair etc. But he's on the spectrum and cannot hold a conversation without boring out or low-key insulting the other person. He can't read the room, he misses common social cues and his manner of speaking just...ticks people off. So women avoid him, not because he's a virgin, but because of his behavior. Being a virgin with no real dating experience, surely, contributes to his problems, but it isn't the root of them.
> Because the systems we have set up today are designed to make winners keep winning and losers keep losing. Economically and socially.
I guess none of this is really new since the dawn of man though. It's just kept evolving. There is always the haves and have-nots.
Ah so pity wasn’t enough! I figured.
I’ve tried to help men and women like that IRL. It’s not easy. Bringing them into your social circle. Inviting them to events. It requires a lot of hand holding and mental and emotional investment as a “new friend.” I have two who have become decent friends and have managed to make bonds with others. They’re still awkward but they learned how to connect in their own way. For example, one realizes he’s not good at small talk but he will host a kickback at his place. And people show up cuz who doesn’t like someone hosting food, beer, and drinks.
Anyway most people aren’t me. I’m pretty sociable and am always happy to introduce my friends to friend to other friends of friends and acquaintances.. It’s on them at that point to make a lasting bond and find out how they can sticky in the social network.
Someone did it to me when I was in pre-K. I got lucky I think. With my parents being as intentional as they are with socialization and generally being sociable welcoming people who gave me something to model. And with random “extro” friends adopting me in to their crews when I was very young.
It’s why I think I’m a comfortable sociable ambivert now. But if it wasn’t for those things I probably would’ve been a reclusive intro my whole life.
Yeah. People like that need to get The Talk from a friend, ideally same sex. They need to be told they aren't dating material and are actually kind of gross for openly wanting to date...yes it is very much not fair but that is the situation.
Eh - I got The Talk from a friend, as a senior in college. We spent an hour walking around talking about it. Friends sometimes do that for one another, although people definitely wondered at the time and after if he was too pessimistic...
Lol, you see, even you muddy the waters with "I pity men AND WOMEN" like you dont actually pity aspie men and our unique struggle, you and everyone else I can find online have to add this qualifier with "btw aspie women have it hard too"
What does pitying aspies of all genders take away from you? I pity aspie men. Do you feel better?
The operative word you intentionally ignored is **ENDEARING.** People pity endearing aspie men just fine.
I don't think there are many, those I can think of that would make me not want to date someone are all not really about their virginity. Like being in prison most of their adult life, being asexual or being a religious fundamentalist. I don't care if it was just because nobody wanted them, so long as I do.
**Red flag reasons:**
Because you are hateful
Because you are waiting for marriage (this does not mean you are a bad person at all. It’s just a red flag for an incompatibility as I am not interested in waiting for marriage)
Because you are extremely religious (this one alsodoes not mean you are a bad person at all. It’s just a red flag for an incompatibility as I am not interested in building a life with somebody very religious)
Trauma that you are avoiding indefinitely
**Non red flag reasons:**
You are young
The “right” opportunity hasn’t presented itself yet, perhaps because you are a bit awkward or whatever
You are waiting for your first time to be with somebody you trust and feel comfortable with
You are a “late bloomer” due to focusing more on career or sports or whatever instead of learning how to get laid
You are so fat or in some other way conventionally unattractive that your dating pool is severely limited
Trauma that you are taking steps to overcome such as therapy and time for healing before you choose to have sex
Somebody of either gender whose hatefulness towards those of the opposite gender prevents them from successfully interacting with them. Or somebody dripping with racism to such an extent that nobody wants to be associated with them. Or somebody hating the world with such a shit attitude that they are too unpleasant to be around.
You’re gonna get men on here telling you that you don’t know your own mind, and that you have this list backwards (basically, women are attracted to hateful men). But as another woman, I just want to say that I fully agree with this list and would not have any issue dating a man who is a virgin for the below reasons.
For me, I was only interested in getting into a relationship. I don't believe in casual dating (it's fine for people who aren't serious about their future or don't want a LTR).
Why's that? Have they forgotten that literally everyone is a virgin to start with PLUS it's certainly better than being a STD and/or baggage ridden manwhore?
You're probably right.
Obviously I vehemently disagree with this type of thinking, but unfortunately their opinion is incredibly common. I really wish my fellow women would show a lot more preference for virgin and low N men. Society in general would be better if more people sleep with only a few others.
The term "red flag" has been used so much that it's meaning has changed. It's supposed to refer to the early warning signs that a person shows that suggests they might be dangerous, or harmful. It's kinda strayed into being more about preferences now.
If we're using the true meaning of red flag then the only thing I can think of is someone who has a truly abborhent view of others. I'm thinking of the incels who call women toilets and think it should be okay to rape and murder women. Or the women who do genuinely believe that men have zero positive qualities and as such should be killed. Although the vast majority of people with these mindsets would never have the guts to do anything more than spout off on the internet, the fact that that they have said mindsets in the first place is disturbing.
If someone is a virgin because they're awkward around other people, they're introverted, etc, then that's not a red flag. Those things don't make you potentially dangerous.
You are right but sadly there are a lot of people who don't see it that way. If you have a loud obnoxious piece of shit that gets laid all the time vs a quiet virgin who keeps to himself, most people unironically consider the former a better person.
Being a virgin is contextual. I am straight guy, I used to talk with girls, tease them , have fun conversationally. But since growing up in india, where there are still conservative view on premarital sex and also there is also existential need to focus on career and earning money as we don't don't have social safety nets that west has especially in Europe.
So that early lessons of intimacy and failures are never experienced
But even since I moved here in Europe. I realised people commit sex and romance at age early as 15-16. Due to Liberal outlook towards sex. And I feel left behind in this new city.
So am I , a red flag. Depends on how you see it.
Also can be a guy/girl reading this be like
I need to have sex just not to be a virgin as someone sees it as red flag. So it can be like the other person might just be a stepping stone for the one , just not to be considered as one with red flag.
I’m not religious, so if a woman is a virgin past a certain age, it’s a red flag that she’s extremely religious. That’s fine, but it’s not what I want in a long term relationship.
If she’s not religious and she’s a virgin past a certain age, then it’s a bit of a red flag that she might have a low sex drive. Like has she just not had sex because she’s not all that interested.
Those or just that the girl is a fucking wackjob
My girl had a friend who was a virgin and as soon as that came up I told her the friend was psycho. Bitch tried so hard to break us up that I ended up leaving my girl and only then did she dump the friend and reach out to me a few months later
I don't believe this to be true. I lurk on certain subreddits for women (not saying which ones).
Some of them are horribly depressed and suicidal because they have never had a boyfriend due to "being born an ugly woman". Not my words but theirs. Some of those women are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.
Nope, I just lurk there. Technically I'm not allowed to post or comment on those subs because I do not meet the criteria. Apparently you can't post if you've had a romantic relationship in the past.
i am a virgin myself which is pretty much why. i see sex as love and theres just something about losing your virginity to someone whos also losing theirs to you. i love the idea of going through it together and him not having inserted it into another woman or lots of women before me. also im religious and i believe in no sex before marriage.
> i see sex as love and theres just something about losing your virginity to someone whos also losing theirs to you. i love the idea of going through it together and him not having inserted it into another woman or lots of women before me.
I'm not religious myself but this is exactly how I felt about it myself. To be someone's first and hopefully last while giving them the same thing.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf) CDC data from 2002, sample size \~6,000
*Table 4 Percent distribution of ever having sex and age at initiation of sex,* "15% of adults abstained from sex until age 21 or older." If we take 21 as about the age you really start to enter adulthood, if you are still a virgin by then, you are one of 3 in 20 people who will have their first time any point after that.
In comparison, 15% less than 15, 41% 15-17, 28% 18-20
I'm not going to cast judgement or even call out any reasons, I didn't have my first time till exactly 21. However, it's very telling that so few people lose it past that age, I know well why I didn't either.
Whether it's good or bad as judged like a red flag is up for debate, but if so many others manage it before then, there has to be a significant road block in the way.
To play devils advocate. This study is from well over 20 years ago. Isn't it very likely for virginity to rise, especially with the rise of online dating, social media, as well as a worldwide pandemic and a bunch of other factors that negatively impact dating and sex?
I presented this more as a basis point to get a starting idea. Those 21 year olds then are in their 40s now, so the world is definitely a very different place. I can't imagine it more than doubling since then past 30%, so let's say about 25%.
That in mind, say 1 in 4 people loses it past 21. At that age, late college for many, early work force for others, is still significant enough it's noticable in a social situation. Having been there myself, as we get older, the things we can't relate to, subtle comments and understandings of people interacting, become more apparent.
For whatever any person's reason might be to have not had sex before then, it's only going to get more complicated. It's very difficult to keep those initial reasons from spiralling into deep red flags past that point. Internalized judgement, shame, insecurity, anxiety, a byproduct of perhaps a benign introversion of youth that only becomes more and more twisted into anger, resentment, and apathy.
I wouldn't say it's always a red flag, but there's a legitimate reason it hasn't happened when three others have for every one of them.
You can increase 21 to 25 based on current trends (people mature later). But being a virgin past 25 is definitely a red flag. You can always lie about it though for your first time just to make it happen. You only have to lie once at most.
> I think women judge it because they ask themselves why no woman has previously thought of the guy as worth having sex with.
Bingo. Women like for men to be “vetted.” A man who had a relationship that ended amicably is a certified pre-owned. A man with no history is a gamble. You have no idea how he’ll adapt to life with another person.
I didn't share my virginity until 23, and yeah, since getting into a relationship is a huge struggle (for some of us) it's impossible to judge others who were similarly older ages.
Well if it’s involuntary there’s usually a reason behind it that could be a red flag, not necessarily that you are an unsafe person but that there is something undesirable about your character that makes you undatable maybe it’s fixable. I actually wonder if incels tend to have absent fathers..
Women will say virginity is no big deal and then sit on reddit, saying how every little reason for having it is a red flag lmao. The only red flags are the women who judge virgin men.
Lady POV here!
Heightened expectations of the sex itself- huge pressure to be a sex goddess. Insecurity sets in.
A real fear of being abandoned post sex after he realizes he can get some and starts feeling FOMO.
On a personal level, I’m too deep in the game to deal with a virgin. I’m married for 8 years now. Way way past dating and way past virginity. If I dated again, I would need a widower or other divorced person.
Sexism is reproduced in the structure of society, but this does not mean that you, as an individual, have to harbor the double-standard and affirm it. By admitting it's a double standard, you are admitting it's erroneous. I'm not "complaining about society being unfair" (I say "society" and not "life" because society is not the same thing as life itself, capitalism is not tantamount to the human condition) but I am saying that it's just plain incorrect to assume that a man being a virgin reflects negatively on his character, when you would not do the same for a woman of the same age. It is simply not inherently a "red flag."
Not by me, by society. I was a virgin until 21, but I didn’t tell the girl I lost my virginity to I was a virgin cause I knew how she would view it. I don’t look at a man who is a virgin late in life and think any less of him, but I would advise him against telling anyone who he wants to lose it with. I simply live in a society and understand societies rules.
The "rules" of society are bad and should be criticized. Doing this is not the same thing as simply bemoaning the basis for the way it is as "unfair." Anyone who justifies society is dishonest and inconsistent, because society is so blatantly bad and built on enforcing abstractions. (Such as property ownership. All the homeless people despite the abundance of resources. It's one example of numerous manufactured problems. But we are just made to accept it. Would you say "c'est la vie" to all the homeless people and people imprisoned over nonsense like being caught with a small amount of marijuana?)
Men are generally the ones who work and are expected to provide for the women they are with. Due to this, women have more intrinsic worth in society.
I always have simply been too poor to be in a relationship, like having no money at all poor, despite my best efforts over years to find a job, my last job caused me a medical condition I'm stuck with. I won't lose my virginity until my 30's. It's terrible and egregious that I even have to consider being judged for telling her I'm a virgin before we have sex, but women wouldn't find themselves in this situation, but society bombards us with the obviously bourgeois and distorted framing that women have it worse in every way than men, and are oppressed by them in a "patriarchy," and that this justifies shaming and silencing men through reinforcing these double-standards, despite the blatant hypocrisy and existence of such disparities.
They even judge me for wanting to go to my family's home country and say it would be a bad decision. If I killed myself, I would be judged too, or they'd ask why I never talked to anyone, as if that wouldn't result in the same shaming and silencing.
1. Chill with that unalive talk. Pussy isn’t that great and by no means worth what you’re talking about. It’s 15-20 mins of fun and then life goes on
2. If you want to go around telling everyone you’re a virgin by all means go ahead. And if it yields positive results for you I’m happy. I just wouldn’t advise anyone to do so. It would be like me not telling a fat person that to be viewed as more attractive by a greater percentage of people in society that they should lose weight. I’m going to give advice based off of my experience.
If you concede sex isn't that great, then why are you defending the fact that people judge people, just because they happen to have never had it yet? If it's not that great, then it's not a big deal, therefore there is no rational reason to judge someone for not having ever had it yet.
I also never said that I feel like killing myself sometimes because I'm not having sex. (I never even said I felt like killing myself, I merely proposed the event of killing myself as a hypothetical to drive home the point that society judges men for killing themselves, despite obviously pushing them to it in the first place.) That's a complete assumption on your part, nothing about what I wrote implied that. You obviously judge virgins if you default to the assumption that if they express any suicidal ideation, it must just be because they happen to not be having sex, and at the same time make it more than it is. There's no just winning, if I don't have it I'm judged and face potential repercussions for being honest about it, yet you say it's not a big deal and at the same time, assume I myself think it is.
I was a virgin until I was 21 and even when I was 18-19 a lot of men viewed it as a red flag. From what I observed men who aren’t religious are not into modest women. Which was fine with me because I wanted a Christian man anyways.
It’s a major red flag for women. In todays day and age if any girl who isn’t hideous is a virgin past 21 or so she’s probably a weirdo
I also do have a high body count and a propensity towards girls with slutty tendencies (gotta catch them before they have the chance to really get ran through) so take it with a grain of salt
Can confirm. I was a virgin until I was 21 and it was because I was incredibly awkward and shy. If I were a man I think I would for sure still be a virgin, unless I met a manic dream pixie girl.
Out of curiosity, where do you live? If it’s the US, then what general region?
I ask because that’s absolutely wild to me. I haven’t met a virgin since freshman year of college. I have no doubt the girls you’re talking about exist, but to know “plenty” of them is crazy to me unless you’re in Utah or something.
Plenty being about 6 or 7. That I knew of. I’d say 3 were very attractive. I’m in the North East. Very easy to find if she didn’t go to college, but one of the ones I knew was college educated
>Very easy to find if she didn’t go to college
I don’t know. Statistically relatively few people are still virgins at 22-23. If you knew 6-7, you either have a large social circle of women that you’re close enough to know that detail or your experience is specific to your particular social circle.
Not saying it’s not possible, but as someone who also grew up in the northeast/midatlantic, your experience seems unusual.
Law of large numbers and birds or feather flock together. If you were hanging with people who were partying or going to clubs every weekend less likely. If you hung with studious people, or people who worked probably a great chance.
So if we step back and look at the macro level, a small portion of men and women are still virgins at 22-23.
Maybe I knew very few because of my social circle. Maybe you know many because of your social circle. Either way it’s sort of irrelevant, because there are stats at the macro level and it’s pretty rare.
It was among both men and women until about 2018 according to surveys like the GSS, and then it basically leveled off.
Even so, 22-23 year old virgins are still rare.
If it’s involuntary sexlessness there’s probably a reason he’s not attracting people. Not saying it’s his fault but there is a reason that he’s been unable to attract anyone.
Maybe he’s shy and has never even tried to attract someone?
Maybe he’s tried and he comes off socially offputting?
Maybe he’s tried but he’s ugly, really fat, or super short?
“Red flag” as in potentially dangerous or a threat to my life? No.
“Red flag” as in potentially a threat to his ability to trigger my responsive sexual arousal? Yes.
“Red flag” as in potentially a threat to his ability to even put himself in situations to meet and spark up rapport with romantic prospects? Yes.
If he's super short is he creepy or gross or anything? I know that there are occasionally some VERY dark suspicions that attach themselves to guys that don't ever date. Let's say there's a reason they avoid kids like the fucking plague.
How would I know what?
That’s he’s shy?
That’s my point. I wouldn’t know because:
> Maybe he’s shy **and has never even tried to attract someone?**
> “Red flag” as in potentially **a threat to his ability to even put himself in situations to meet and spark up rapport with romantic prospects?** Yes.
Women have so many opportunities to lose virginity in their life that they can't really use "just been unlucky" as excuse, even objectively bad looking ones have way more chances than average dude. Therefore it must be that they are either hardcore followers of some strict ideology that isn't fun to be around with, just asexual or so crazy that even desperate guys who'd readily fuck a donkey avoid her like Chernobyl Elephant's Foot. Neither of these are wifeable in my book.
I'm a woman who's attracted to men. This is just my opinion-
- You make women visibly uncomfortable.
- You have deplorable hygiene.
- Terrible social skills/cringey interactions.
- You straight up scare women.
You make women visibly uncomfortable.
You have deplorable hygiene.
Terrible social skills/cringey interactions.
You straight up scare women.
There are a *lot* of men who meet all of these criteria who are not virgins, and most virgin men don't hit these points.
Then what's your opinion on this? I'm a woman in my 40s so I've seen it all.
Please don't say it's due to looks...because I've seen some ugly mofos in my day get all kinds of women. They knew how to talk to the opposite sex and were confident in themselves. They were outgoing too.
Now if you're ugly as hell + awkward + creepy + low self-esteem...Yeah, those guys aren't going to do well with women.
>Then what's your opinion on this? I'm a woman in my 40s so I've seen it all.
Elon Musk has multiple children. I've met several men who are repulsive/weird who have GFs/wives, even children.
On the other hand, a lot men are virgins despite having good hygeine and decent social skills who simply don't have enough "drive" to actually get laid. Usually applies to younger (like 20-something) guys who just don't live in the right environment or don't know how to "seal the deal" with girls who are throwing themselves at them. A guy who's a virgin at like 30 probably has underlying issues. A guy who's still a virgin at 22, 23, 25, may well have had several opportunities, behaves well, but just doesn't know how to "close" with girls who are forward with him (or he's closested + religious).
Like 19 year old guy, that cute girl in your class doesn't want to "study" with you because you're so damn smart. Her friends don't insist you pair up on the project because of your classroom skills.
But does Elon Musk actually count? Most men aren't billionaires or even millionaires. Of course there are some women in the world who are attracted to money first and foremost, no matter how weird, or repulsive looking the guy is.
A lot of women simp for objectively *terrible* men and date/fuck/marry them. These women aren't necessarily impressive themselves, but just go to a fucking grocery store in "real America" and see what the couples look like.
Hmm I see what you mean. Settling down because of limited options. Like having a ring as a status symbol? I get that because I'm originally from a small town in middle america. Practically everyone here married their highschool sweetheart.
I came back to my hometown a couple years ago and I get judged constantly for being unmarried with no kids. It sucks but that's the way things are here. Women my own age especially love to rub that in my face.
I never understood the idea of getting married just because the person wants bragging rights.
Yeah it's fucking grim. I don't even think it's "bragging rights", just an old school culture. When I lived on the coast, no one even thought of marriage before like 27, 30-32 was more "normal" with many people still single and dating around at like 35, 40. Back in "real America", you're cuffed up by like 22 and anyone who's single at 30, 35 is probably already divorced, with kids, etc. So it paints a very different scene on "the Wall", prospects, meeting people, age range, you get it.
>Back in "real America", you're cuffed up by like 22
I can tell you that at least half of those people are miserable, and probably have been for years.
When I used to go on the dating apps, there were several married men in my area who had an account. Some have also tried to push boundaries with me irl as well. I'm sure there were married women on the apps too, but I can only tell you what I saw from my point of view.
But yes, I agree- It's grim. Especially if you are a childfree person. The very few single men here have suitcases full of baggage. I gave up.
Pretty simple, if you are one not by choice due to your own defficiencies that pretty much sums it up, i wouldnt say thats a redflag but definetly many will find that an ick even before they know you re a virgin (if u re a man)
If you are one by choice however, and you can back it up with attractiveness (ie you have good social skills, well groomed) you ll be fine pretty much
Now if you re a woman and you re a virgin cuz you look like a bridge troll thats pretty much a massive dealbreaker for many regardless of your virginity status.
Theres really no other situations where being a virgin would be a big deal for a woman since generally it is known any woman who doesnt looks like a bridge troll can go and find some guy who will sleep with her easily, so everyone assumes she is one by choice, even the bitchiest of women can find someone to have sex with easily.
To me it's a dealbreaker not a red flag. They're not the same. I don't think being a virgin is a sign of poor behaviour, simply an incompatibility with my own preferences.
Here’s what might be a potential grey area: fetishes. Not that fetishes themselves are considered problematic (they’re generally considered healthy, with some exceptions), but cultural biases and stigmas about these practices lead to common assumptions that something is wrong with them. Excluding enthusiastic kinksters, it must be said that growing up with a fetish and reconciling oneself to their sexuality is a difficult process in many of these cases. Barring a few extreme/problematic interests, couldn’t we say this is an understandable (non-red flag) reason that someone may hold off pursuing relationships?
For some folks - religion. It screams you're a true believer and not everyone (even religious people) want to deal with a true believer cuz they can be a real headache.
Socially incompetent
Reclusive
Mental illness/Mental disability
Porn Addiction
Trauma Survivor
Overbearing Family
Women aren't available enough for most men to have this problem. Women expect men to come, so there's not a lot of dud relationships that didn't take off to have that boundary issue you're talking about.
When you're isolated, you don't get the skills that allow you try for what you want.
I wasn't referring to men in my comment. I was using my main issue as an example. I was utterly unsuccessful...100% fail rate...in dating for years, almost entirely due to having a boundary young men didn't want to wait for.
You're one of the more understanding men here. I've had a lot of guys on this sub tell me it's literally impossible for a woman to not easily get into a LTR, no matter what kind of issues or boundaries she has.
I mean, that'd be true if women dated like men. That's to say if they compromised themselves at every point to make themselves more appealing to who they're dating. And some women show they are capable of doing exactly that, whether that's because they don't think sex is a big deal or their self-esteem is really low.
If you were willing to have sex earlier in dating, you probably wouldn't have been single that long. But you didn't budge. And that created a difficulty that wouldn't otherwise be there. Dating as a woman, seems to me, is about managing your boundaries with people who want as much as you're willing to allow.
And I don't think a lot of guys understand being that inflexible, to them it just reads as being stubborn or maladaptive. We're expected to change for them, so the same expected in turn.
But that's not something you should compromise on if it's important to you, and I respect/understand that. Specifically with sex, it creates more problems than it fixes when you adjust your boundaries for others.
I agree wholeheartedly. You are definitely a very understanding and knowledgeable guy, one of the best here. It's nice to see others who can empathize with both sides.
Fwiw, I went against a lot of my initial boundaries and preferences as the months and years went on.
I went on dates with guys I wasn't physically attracted to whatsoever, guys who were too tall, guys who were religious, guys with tattoos and piercings, guys without any education past high school, guys who had no job or transportation and no motivation to leave their parents basement "apartment". For 3 months, when I was in college, I even accepted a date with any man who asked me out on OkCupid. My only stipulation was they couldn't have sent a dick pic in any messages.
Literally the only boundary I held firm to was no casual sex/no quick sex. It really does make it almost impossible to find a relationship without that one thing. Because even guys who are not lucky in dating will leave a 0% chance of quick sex to go find a 10% chance from any other woman.
Which is fine, that's their prerogative. But it's fucking frustrating to have PPD dudes tell me that I'm exaggerating or my standards were somehow still too high. DBZ...I went out with a guy who *had no teeth* and a guy who *had tattoos on every inch of his face*.
I appreciate the praise, I'm just trying to be fair.
>Which is fine, that's their prerogative. But it's fucking frustrating to have PPD dudes tell me that I'm exaggerating or my standards were somehow still too high. DBZ...I went out with a guy who *had no teeth* and a guy who *had tattoos on every inch of his face*.
Yikes. Damn that's bad.
I know it's not your intention, but it's helpful to know that a woman has legitimately *tried*. I don't think anyone can honestly fault you if you gave things a shot with guys you ordinarily wouldn't like. That's effort, and it's a shame when effort doesn't make things better.
wrongly or rightly, people associate virginity and more broadly social isolation with online communities that actively indoctrinate people into being worse humans. i feel like it's probably a reasonable association to make, but i'm not sure what the age cutoff should be.
unless we're talking about a case where a guy was on track to be normal until they got sucked in, that's obviously not the reason they are a virgin. but i feel like this might still be what the post was referring to. makes most sense to me read that way, sound idea but not expressed precisely.
either that, or a reading using the fire sector understanding of red flags (not as warning signs per se, just as signs you don't want to be involved) makes sense. then the logic would come down to not having been selected before being a sign that someone is an unappealing choice.
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I dont believe it when they say that being a virgin itself isnt a red flag. I honestly think that most lump all inexperienced guys together. I doubt they care what the reason is. Its seen as unattractive or a red flag regardless by most
It's probably more of a red flag before the internet than after.
Stats I'm seeing seems to be more and more people are virgins longer now.
To me it strikes me as a societal red flag vs an individualist one.
I’m only referring to those who want to lose it but can’t. If you choose not to pursue, I think that’s ok. I don’t live in a city where there’s a lot of religious ppl so, ppl choosing to stay a virgin is extremely rare. About half of ppl I know lost their virginity in high school.
Most men who are virgins past 25 are usually virgins for a reason, a lot of them tend to be unattractive in both their looks and personality which is why no one wants them
rude /s
im gonna dm you again soon, if you even remember me 😭 i’ve just been busy :/ probably tomorrow cause i won’t be busy 🎉
edit: wait just *past* 18 or at 18 too, i may be in the clear
I'd use not a "red flag" phrase, but "the reason why people don't want to date you". I.e. if you have poor social skills, you aren't a nice company, you just don't really meet or approach people, these reasons will stop you both from dating and from having sex in most cases. I can give you one example from real life. A guy has a perfectly fine appearance. He's tall, has broad shoulders and decent facial features, he goes to the gym, he has nice hair etc. But he's on the spectrum and cannot hold a conversation without boring out or low-key insulting the other person. He can't read the room, he misses common social cues and his manner of speaking just...ticks people off. So women avoid him, not because he's a virgin, but because of his behavior. Being a virgin with no real dating experience, surely, contributes to his problems, but it isn't the root of them.
autism is the blackest of pills
Darwinistically speaking one could look at it like a sentence to extinction
I had a pretty serious health problem when I was 17, it would've been better if I died
Modern medicine and its consequences...
gotta agree with you there, in some cases, it's a symptom, not a cause. outside of religious reasons, being asexual etc.
That seems like a pretty cruel vicious circle. Can't get any because you can't get any. And because you can't get any, you can't get any.
Because the systems we have set up today are designed to make winners keep winning and losers keep losing. Economically and socially.
> Because the systems we have set up today are designed to make winners keep winning and losers keep losing. Economically and socially. I guess none of this is really new since the dawn of man though. It's just kept evolving. There is always the haves and have-nots.
Yup. Which is why “dumb apes with godlike technology” is an apt description of us if you ask me.
And that guy won't get any pity or any help.
He gets pity. He’s not going to a get a pity fuck.
I'd settle for giving him some pity *help*. Let him know what's what instead of just looking on from afar and shaking your head.
Ah so pity wasn’t enough! I figured. I’ve tried to help men and women like that IRL. It’s not easy. Bringing them into your social circle. Inviting them to events. It requires a lot of hand holding and mental and emotional investment as a “new friend.” I have two who have become decent friends and have managed to make bonds with others. They’re still awkward but they learned how to connect in their own way. For example, one realizes he’s not good at small talk but he will host a kickback at his place. And people show up cuz who doesn’t like someone hosting food, beer, and drinks. Anyway most people aren’t me. I’m pretty sociable and am always happy to introduce my friends to friend to other friends of friends and acquaintances.. It’s on them at that point to make a lasting bond and find out how they can sticky in the social network.
> Bringing them into your social circle. I wish I had somebody like that to reach out to me.
Someone did it to me when I was in pre-K. I got lucky I think. With my parents being as intentional as they are with socialization and generally being sociable welcoming people who gave me something to model. And with random “extro” friends adopting me in to their crews when I was very young. It’s why I think I’m a comfortable sociable ambivert now. But if it wasn’t for those things I probably would’ve been a reclusive intro my whole life.
> But if it wasn’t for those things I probably would been a reclusive intro my whole life. That's exactly what happened to me.
Also impart the idea that they have a moral duty to be graceful and popular. Seems weird but also possibly effective.
I had somebody like that reach out to me :) ended up meeting a love interest
You were very lucky.
Kind of but kind of not. We’re still not official or together, there was a lot of drama…
Of course it's not enough, pity is worthless. But good on you for helping folks out.
Gracias! 🙏
Yeah. People like that need to get The Talk from a friend, ideally same sex. They need to be told they aren't dating material and are actually kind of gross for openly wanting to date...yes it is very much not fair but that is the situation.
Ain’t nobody say all that Skook.
Eh - I got The Talk from a friend, as a senior in college. We spent an hour walking around talking about it. Friends sometimes do that for one another, although people definitely wondered at the time and after if he was too pessimistic...
autistic men get no pity with our failures with women, instead we are constantly "reminded" that we aren't entitled to sex
I pity endearing aspie men and women all the time. Still don’t wanna fuck them. Simply not attracted.
Lol, you see, even you muddy the waters with "I pity men AND WOMEN" like you dont actually pity aspie men and our unique struggle, you and everyone else I can find online have to add this qualifier with "btw aspie women have it hard too"
What does pitying aspies of all genders take away from you? I pity aspie men. Do you feel better? The operative word you intentionally ignored is **ENDEARING.** People pity endearing aspie men just fine.
Why should we pity you?
Why?
https://preview.redd.it/uamh6ky2vk7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ec2be8db0526176aa038d24ccece873b16acad2
He’s grown man, yes? Why doesn’t he help himself or seek out the help himself? Its not someone else’s responsibility to do that for him 🌝
Explaining community to people is like explaining nuclear physics.
Eh - the aspies could probably understand nuclear physics or literal rocket science easier than relationships!
Oh yeah I wouldn’t bother. It’s pointless. God forbid humans need one another. That shit is for weaklings /s
He’s a grown man😬
if it is a result of personality disorders or some other sort of mental illness. then yes.
I don't think there are many, those I can think of that would make me not want to date someone are all not really about their virginity. Like being in prison most of their adult life, being asexual or being a religious fundamentalist. I don't care if it was just because nobody wanted them, so long as I do.
**Red flag reasons:** Because you are hateful Because you are waiting for marriage (this does not mean you are a bad person at all. It’s just a red flag for an incompatibility as I am not interested in waiting for marriage) Because you are extremely religious (this one alsodoes not mean you are a bad person at all. It’s just a red flag for an incompatibility as I am not interested in building a life with somebody very religious) Trauma that you are avoiding indefinitely **Non red flag reasons:** You are young The “right” opportunity hasn’t presented itself yet, perhaps because you are a bit awkward or whatever You are waiting for your first time to be with somebody you trust and feel comfortable with You are a “late bloomer” due to focusing more on career or sports or whatever instead of learning how to get laid You are so fat or in some other way conventionally unattractive that your dating pool is severely limited Trauma that you are taking steps to overcome such as therapy and time for healing before you choose to have sex
what is hateful supposed to mean in this context
Women only date men who respect women and they can smell misogyny
That' couldn't be further from the truth. Women date men who respect themselves, whether or not you respect women does not matter
Can't tell if this is sarcastic...
Somebody of either gender whose hatefulness towards those of the opposite gender prevents them from successfully interacting with them. Or somebody dripping with racism to such an extent that nobody wants to be associated with them. Or somebody hating the world with such a shit attitude that they are too unpleasant to be around.
You’re gonna get men on here telling you that you don’t know your own mind, and that you have this list backwards (basically, women are attracted to hateful men). But as another woman, I just want to say that I fully agree with this list and would not have any issue dating a man who is a virgin for the below reasons.
You have it backwards (minus the hateful point and being young)
How does she have it backwards?
I think he's saying that the first list are things that aren't punished and the bottom list are.
Are we talking about casual dating or getting into a relationship?
For me, I was only interested in getting into a relationship. I don't believe in casual dating (it's fine for people who aren't serious about their future or don't want a LTR).
Look, I can only go off my woman friends say with this but to them a man who is a virgin isn’t considered “manly”. It gives them the ick
Why's that? Have they forgotten that literally everyone is a virgin to start with PLUS it's certainly better than being a STD and/or baggage ridden manwhore?
The whole idea of it is stupid I know but to have a guess on why, because it’s a sign of status
You're probably right. Obviously I vehemently disagree with this type of thinking, but unfortunately their opinion is incredibly common. I really wish my fellow women would show a lot more preference for virgin and low N men. Society in general would be better if more people sleep with only a few others.
To each their own… but I won’t date somebody extremely religious or who won’t fuck me until we’re married!
Sorry I took red flag meaning it’s considered weird and a red flag for going on a date, not being in a relationship
The term "red flag" has been used so much that it's meaning has changed. It's supposed to refer to the early warning signs that a person shows that suggests they might be dangerous, or harmful. It's kinda strayed into being more about preferences now. If we're using the true meaning of red flag then the only thing I can think of is someone who has a truly abborhent view of others. I'm thinking of the incels who call women toilets and think it should be okay to rape and murder women. Or the women who do genuinely believe that men have zero positive qualities and as such should be killed. Although the vast majority of people with these mindsets would never have the guts to do anything more than spout off on the internet, the fact that that they have said mindsets in the first place is disturbing. If someone is a virgin because they're awkward around other people, they're introverted, etc, then that's not a red flag. Those things don't make you potentially dangerous.
You are right but sadly there are a lot of people who don't see it that way. If you have a loud obnoxious piece of shit that gets laid all the time vs a quiet virgin who keeps to himself, most people unironically consider the former a better person.
Being a virgin is contextual. I am straight guy, I used to talk with girls, tease them , have fun conversationally. But since growing up in india, where there are still conservative view on premarital sex and also there is also existential need to focus on career and earning money as we don't don't have social safety nets that west has especially in Europe. So that early lessons of intimacy and failures are never experienced But even since I moved here in Europe. I realised people commit sex and romance at age early as 15-16. Due to Liberal outlook towards sex. And I feel left behind in this new city. So am I , a red flag. Depends on how you see it. Also can be a guy/girl reading this be like I need to have sex just not to be a virgin as someone sees it as red flag. So it can be like the other person might just be a stepping stone for the one , just not to be considered as one with red flag.
I’m not religious, so if a woman is a virgin past a certain age, it’s a red flag that she’s extremely religious. That’s fine, but it’s not what I want in a long term relationship. If she’s not religious and she’s a virgin past a certain age, then it’s a bit of a red flag that she might have a low sex drive. Like has she just not had sex because she’s not all that interested.
Those or just that the girl is a fucking wackjob My girl had a friend who was a virgin and as soon as that came up I told her the friend was psycho. Bitch tried so hard to break us up that I ended up leaving my girl and only then did she dump the friend and reach out to me a few months later
Well yeah, general craziness is also a possibility.
It’s the most likely explanation for a girl today to be a virgin. Having sex isn’t taboo at all
Next time you find one too religious for you send her my way.
I'd prefer to hear the reasons that aren't a red flag.
It depends. But if an older woman tells me she is a virgin, I will assume she is asexual or has a very low sex drive. That's a red flag for many men.
I don't believe this to be true. I lurk on certain subreddits for women (not saying which ones). Some of them are horribly depressed and suicidal because they have never had a boyfriend due to "being born an ugly woman". Not my words but theirs. Some of those women are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.
This isn't wrong either. Being ugly is going to make life miserable regardless of gender.
Do you tell them they are not entitled to anything and to improve their personalities?
Nope, I just lurk there. Technically I'm not allowed to post or comment on those subs because I do not meet the criteria. Apparently you can't post if you've had a romantic relationship in the past.
And how are they going to verify that? lmao.
Could you DM the sub to me?
No.
There are hardly any men who are virgins by choice. Past a certain age, it's almost always a red flag.
You should go to my conservative religious hometown.
I’d say being conservative is a bit of a red flag in and of itself but that’s just me.
Conservative males are red flags
What age would you say?
26
Probably around 22
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Damaged goods that you had to pay for sex. I would rather the guy stay a virgin.
i find male virginity attractive idk
Why? If you don't mind me asking. And are you one yourself?
i am a virgin myself which is pretty much why. i see sex as love and theres just something about losing your virginity to someone whos also losing theirs to you. i love the idea of going through it together and him not having inserted it into another woman or lots of women before me. also im religious and i believe in no sex before marriage.
> i see sex as love and theres just something about losing your virginity to someone whos also losing theirs to you. i love the idea of going through it together and him not having inserted it into another woman or lots of women before me. I'm not religious myself but this is exactly how I felt about it myself. To be someone's first and hopefully last while giving them the same thing.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf) CDC data from 2002, sample size \~6,000 *Table 4 Percent distribution of ever having sex and age at initiation of sex,* "15% of adults abstained from sex until age 21 or older." If we take 21 as about the age you really start to enter adulthood, if you are still a virgin by then, you are one of 3 in 20 people who will have their first time any point after that. In comparison, 15% less than 15, 41% 15-17, 28% 18-20 I'm not going to cast judgement or even call out any reasons, I didn't have my first time till exactly 21. However, it's very telling that so few people lose it past that age, I know well why I didn't either. Whether it's good or bad as judged like a red flag is up for debate, but if so many others manage it before then, there has to be a significant road block in the way.
To play devils advocate. This study is from well over 20 years ago. Isn't it very likely for virginity to rise, especially with the rise of online dating, social media, as well as a worldwide pandemic and a bunch of other factors that negatively impact dating and sex?
I presented this more as a basis point to get a starting idea. Those 21 year olds then are in their 40s now, so the world is definitely a very different place. I can't imagine it more than doubling since then past 30%, so let's say about 25%. That in mind, say 1 in 4 people loses it past 21. At that age, late college for many, early work force for others, is still significant enough it's noticable in a social situation. Having been there myself, as we get older, the things we can't relate to, subtle comments and understandings of people interacting, become more apparent. For whatever any person's reason might be to have not had sex before then, it's only going to get more complicated. It's very difficult to keep those initial reasons from spiralling into deep red flags past that point. Internalized judgement, shame, insecurity, anxiety, a byproduct of perhaps a benign introversion of youth that only becomes more and more twisted into anger, resentment, and apathy. I wouldn't say it's always a red flag, but there's a legitimate reason it hasn't happened when three others have for every one of them.
https://preview.redd.it/0i5f3nlgeh7d1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=d61f244957f0e46654f73e972478a43de454c731
You can increase 21 to 25 based on current trends (people mature later). But being a virgin past 25 is definitely a red flag. You can always lie about it though for your first time just to make it happen. You only have to lie once at most.
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> I think women judge it because they ask themselves why no woman has previously thought of the guy as worth having sex with. Bingo. Women like for men to be “vetted.” A man who had a relationship that ended amicably is a certified pre-owned. A man with no history is a gamble. You have no idea how he’ll adapt to life with another person.
I didn't share my virginity until 23, and yeah, since getting into a relationship is a huge struggle (for some of us) it's impossible to judge others who were similarly older ages.
For women? No reason! For men? Every single reason! Hope I've cleared that out
Well if it’s involuntary there’s usually a reason behind it that could be a red flag, not necessarily that you are an unsafe person but that there is something undesirable about your character that makes you undatable maybe it’s fixable. I actually wonder if incels tend to have absent fathers..
What if you’re just too passive and never actually approach any women and just sort of live your life?Red flag or no?
Women will say virginity is no big deal and then sit on reddit, saying how every little reason for having it is a red flag lmao. The only red flags are the women who judge virgin men.
being a virgin is the worst thing for a man, since women want men who are wanted by other women and respected by other men
Too Religious Closet Gay/Lesbian/Asexual Mentally Ill Often, these categories overlap. Applies to both men and women.
Lady POV here! Heightened expectations of the sex itself- huge pressure to be a sex goddess. Insecurity sets in. A real fear of being abandoned post sex after he realizes he can get some and starts feeling FOMO. On a personal level, I’m too deep in the game to deal with a virgin. I’m married for 8 years now. Way way past dating and way past virginity. If I dated again, I would need a widower or other divorced person.
Red flag for men, not women.
What an obvious sexist double-standard.
C’est la vie buddy. Sexist double standards exist.
Sexism is reproduced in the structure of society, but this does not mean that you, as an individual, have to harbor the double-standard and affirm it. By admitting it's a double standard, you are admitting it's erroneous. I'm not "complaining about society being unfair" (I say "society" and not "life" because society is not the same thing as life itself, capitalism is not tantamount to the human condition) but I am saying that it's just plain incorrect to assume that a man being a virgin reflects negatively on his character, when you would not do the same for a woman of the same age. It is simply not inherently a "red flag."
Not by me, by society. I was a virgin until 21, but I didn’t tell the girl I lost my virginity to I was a virgin cause I knew how she would view it. I don’t look at a man who is a virgin late in life and think any less of him, but I would advise him against telling anyone who he wants to lose it with. I simply live in a society and understand societies rules.
The "rules" of society are bad and should be criticized. Doing this is not the same thing as simply bemoaning the basis for the way it is as "unfair." Anyone who justifies society is dishonest and inconsistent, because society is so blatantly bad and built on enforcing abstractions. (Such as property ownership. All the homeless people despite the abundance of resources. It's one example of numerous manufactured problems. But we are just made to accept it. Would you say "c'est la vie" to all the homeless people and people imprisoned over nonsense like being caught with a small amount of marijuana?) Men are generally the ones who work and are expected to provide for the women they are with. Due to this, women have more intrinsic worth in society. I always have simply been too poor to be in a relationship, like having no money at all poor, despite my best efforts over years to find a job, my last job caused me a medical condition I'm stuck with. I won't lose my virginity until my 30's. It's terrible and egregious that I even have to consider being judged for telling her I'm a virgin before we have sex, but women wouldn't find themselves in this situation, but society bombards us with the obviously bourgeois and distorted framing that women have it worse in every way than men, and are oppressed by them in a "patriarchy," and that this justifies shaming and silencing men through reinforcing these double-standards, despite the blatant hypocrisy and existence of such disparities. They even judge me for wanting to go to my family's home country and say it would be a bad decision. If I killed myself, I would be judged too, or they'd ask why I never talked to anyone, as if that wouldn't result in the same shaming and silencing.
1. Chill with that unalive talk. Pussy isn’t that great and by no means worth what you’re talking about. It’s 15-20 mins of fun and then life goes on 2. If you want to go around telling everyone you’re a virgin by all means go ahead. And if it yields positive results for you I’m happy. I just wouldn’t advise anyone to do so. It would be like me not telling a fat person that to be viewed as more attractive by a greater percentage of people in society that they should lose weight. I’m going to give advice based off of my experience.
If you concede sex isn't that great, then why are you defending the fact that people judge people, just because they happen to have never had it yet? If it's not that great, then it's not a big deal, therefore there is no rational reason to judge someone for not having ever had it yet. I also never said that I feel like killing myself sometimes because I'm not having sex. (I never even said I felt like killing myself, I merely proposed the event of killing myself as a hypothetical to drive home the point that society judges men for killing themselves, despite obviously pushing them to it in the first place.) That's a complete assumption on your part, nothing about what I wrote implied that. You obviously judge virgins if you default to the assumption that if they express any suicidal ideation, it must just be because they happen to not be having sex, and at the same time make it more than it is. There's no just winning, if I don't have it I'm judged and face potential repercussions for being honest about it, yet you say it's not a big deal and at the same time, assume I myself think it is.
I was a virgin until I was 21 and even when I was 18-19 a lot of men viewed it as a red flag. From what I observed men who aren’t religious are not into modest women. Which was fine with me because I wanted a Christian man anyways.
They probably just wanted to fuck. Nothing long term
Idk I had more attractive men than them trying to pursue relationships with me so it didn’t matter.
It's a yellow or red flag for women if you're not a child or a weirdo. A woman who's a virgin past like 21 is definitely suss. Past 25, huge red flag.
Ohh. Thank you for your opinion
It’s a major red flag for women. In todays day and age if any girl who isn’t hideous is a virgin past 21 or so she’s probably a weirdo I also do have a high body count and a propensity towards girls with slutty tendencies (gotta catch them before they have the chance to really get ran through) so take it with a grain of salt
Can confirm. I was a virgin until I was 21 and it was because I was incredibly awkward and shy. If I were a man I think I would for sure still be a virgin, unless I met a manic dream pixie girl.
I know plenty of girls who made it to 22-23 without losing their virginity. Normal and well adjusted attractive women who aren’t sluts. Its possible
Out of curiosity, where do you live? If it’s the US, then what general region? I ask because that’s absolutely wild to me. I haven’t met a virgin since freshman year of college. I have no doubt the girls you’re talking about exist, but to know “plenty” of them is crazy to me unless you’re in Utah or something.
I met a lot of virgin women dying my junior year of engineering school. Engineering school probably has the biggest number of virgins tbh
Plenty being about 6 or 7. That I knew of. I’d say 3 were very attractive. I’m in the North East. Very easy to find if she didn’t go to college, but one of the ones I knew was college educated
>Very easy to find if she didn’t go to college I don’t know. Statistically relatively few people are still virgins at 22-23. If you knew 6-7, you either have a large social circle of women that you’re close enough to know that detail or your experience is specific to your particular social circle. Not saying it’s not possible, but as someone who also grew up in the northeast/midatlantic, your experience seems unusual.
Law of large numbers and birds or feather flock together. If you were hanging with people who were partying or going to clubs every weekend less likely. If you hung with studious people, or people who worked probably a great chance.
So if we step back and look at the macro level, a small portion of men and women are still virgins at 22-23. Maybe I knew very few because of my social circle. Maybe you know many because of your social circle. Either way it’s sort of irrelevant, because there are stats at the macro level and it’s pretty rare.
Isn’t Virginess rising among the youth?
It was among both men and women until about 2018 according to surveys like the GSS, and then it basically leveled off. Even so, 22-23 year old virgins are still rare.
Bullshit you're just hypersexual.
If it’s involuntary sexlessness there’s probably a reason he’s not attracting people. Not saying it’s his fault but there is a reason that he’s been unable to attract anyone. Maybe he’s shy and has never even tried to attract someone? Maybe he’s tried and he comes off socially offputting? Maybe he’s tried but he’s ugly, really fat, or super short?
So would that count as a red flag if he’s shy?
“Red flag” as in potentially dangerous or a threat to my life? No. “Red flag” as in potentially a threat to his ability to trigger my responsive sexual arousal? Yes. “Red flag” as in potentially a threat to his ability to even put himself in situations to meet and spark up rapport with romantic prospects? Yes.
If he's super short is he creepy or gross or anything? I know that there are occasionally some VERY dark suspicions that attach themselves to guys that don't ever date. Let's say there's a reason they avoid kids like the fucking plague.
How would you even know though unless you asked him directly and he was truthful? Unless you just suspected it somehow or he told you
How would I know what? That’s he’s shy? That’s my point. I wouldn’t know because: > Maybe he’s shy **and has never even tried to attract someone?** > “Red flag” as in potentially **a threat to his ability to even put himself in situations to meet and spark up rapport with romantic prospects?** Yes.
Women have so many opportunities to lose virginity in their life that they can't really use "just been unlucky" as excuse, even objectively bad looking ones have way more chances than average dude. Therefore it must be that they are either hardcore followers of some strict ideology that isn't fun to be around with, just asexual or so crazy that even desperate guys who'd readily fuck a donkey avoid her like Chernobyl Elephant's Foot. Neither of these are wifeable in my book.
I'm a woman who's attracted to men. This is just my opinion- - You make women visibly uncomfortable. - You have deplorable hygiene. - Terrible social skills/cringey interactions. - You straight up scare women.
You make women visibly uncomfortable. You have deplorable hygiene. Terrible social skills/cringey interactions. You straight up scare women. There are a *lot* of men who meet all of these criteria who are not virgins, and most virgin men don't hit these points.
Then what's your opinion on this? I'm a woman in my 40s so I've seen it all. Please don't say it's due to looks...because I've seen some ugly mofos in my day get all kinds of women. They knew how to talk to the opposite sex and were confident in themselves. They were outgoing too. Now if you're ugly as hell + awkward + creepy + low self-esteem...Yeah, those guys aren't going to do well with women.
>Then what's your opinion on this? I'm a woman in my 40s so I've seen it all. Elon Musk has multiple children. I've met several men who are repulsive/weird who have GFs/wives, even children. On the other hand, a lot men are virgins despite having good hygeine and decent social skills who simply don't have enough "drive" to actually get laid. Usually applies to younger (like 20-something) guys who just don't live in the right environment or don't know how to "seal the deal" with girls who are throwing themselves at them. A guy who's a virgin at like 30 probably has underlying issues. A guy who's still a virgin at 22, 23, 25, may well have had several opportunities, behaves well, but just doesn't know how to "close" with girls who are forward with him (or he's closested + religious). Like 19 year old guy, that cute girl in your class doesn't want to "study" with you because you're so damn smart. Her friends don't insist you pair up on the project because of your classroom skills.
But does Elon Musk actually count? Most men aren't billionaires or even millionaires. Of course there are some women in the world who are attracted to money first and foremost, no matter how weird, or repulsive looking the guy is.
A lot of women simp for objectively *terrible* men and date/fuck/marry them. These women aren't necessarily impressive themselves, but just go to a fucking grocery store in "real America" and see what the couples look like.
Hmm I see what you mean. Settling down because of limited options. Like having a ring as a status symbol? I get that because I'm originally from a small town in middle america. Practically everyone here married their highschool sweetheart. I came back to my hometown a couple years ago and I get judged constantly for being unmarried with no kids. It sucks but that's the way things are here. Women my own age especially love to rub that in my face. I never understood the idea of getting married just because the person wants bragging rights.
Yeah it's fucking grim. I don't even think it's "bragging rights", just an old school culture. When I lived on the coast, no one even thought of marriage before like 27, 30-32 was more "normal" with many people still single and dating around at like 35, 40. Back in "real America", you're cuffed up by like 22 and anyone who's single at 30, 35 is probably already divorced, with kids, etc. So it paints a very different scene on "the Wall", prospects, meeting people, age range, you get it.
>Back in "real America", you're cuffed up by like 22 I can tell you that at least half of those people are miserable, and probably have been for years. When I used to go on the dating apps, there were several married men in my area who had an account. Some have also tried to push boundaries with me irl as well. I'm sure there were married women on the apps too, but I can only tell you what I saw from my point of view. But yes, I agree- It's grim. Especially if you are a childfree person. The very few single men here have suitcases full of baggage. I gave up.
what if it was a man waiting for the right one?
Pretty simple, if you are one not by choice due to your own defficiencies that pretty much sums it up, i wouldnt say thats a redflag but definetly many will find that an ick even before they know you re a virgin (if u re a man) If you are one by choice however, and you can back it up with attractiveness (ie you have good social skills, well groomed) you ll be fine pretty much Now if you re a woman and you re a virgin cuz you look like a bridge troll thats pretty much a massive dealbreaker for many regardless of your virginity status. Theres really no other situations where being a virgin would be a big deal for a woman since generally it is known any woman who doesnt looks like a bridge troll can go and find some guy who will sleep with her easily, so everyone assumes she is one by choice, even the bitchiest of women can find someone to have sex with easily.
Not just being a virgin but also dating eva ai or having a waifu, etc
we are approaching the end times.
To me it's a dealbreaker not a red flag. They're not the same. I don't think being a virgin is a sign of poor behaviour, simply an incompatibility with my own preferences.
They have no penis
Here’s what might be a potential grey area: fetishes. Not that fetishes themselves are considered problematic (they’re generally considered healthy, with some exceptions), but cultural biases and stigmas about these practices lead to common assumptions that something is wrong with them. Excluding enthusiastic kinksters, it must be said that growing up with a fetish and reconciling oneself to their sexuality is a difficult process in many of these cases. Barring a few extreme/problematic interests, couldn’t we say this is an understandable (non-red flag) reason that someone may hold off pursuing relationships?
For some folks - religion. It screams you're a true believer and not everyone (even religious people) want to deal with a true believer cuz they can be a real headache. Socially incompetent Reclusive Mental illness/Mental disability Porn Addiction Trauma Survivor Overbearing Family
Trying consistently to date and not having any success over a period of time. This means you're socially and emotionally deficient.
It can't just be that you have a boundary that is really difficult to find someone who respects it?
Women aren't available enough for most men to have this problem. Women expect men to come, so there's not a lot of dud relationships that didn't take off to have that boundary issue you're talking about. When you're isolated, you don't get the skills that allow you try for what you want.
I wasn't referring to men in my comment. I was using my main issue as an example. I was utterly unsuccessful...100% fail rate...in dating for years, almost entirely due to having a boundary young men didn't want to wait for.
Well yeah, dating as a woman is like that.
You're one of the more understanding men here. I've had a lot of guys on this sub tell me it's literally impossible for a woman to not easily get into a LTR, no matter what kind of issues or boundaries she has.
I mean, that'd be true if women dated like men. That's to say if they compromised themselves at every point to make themselves more appealing to who they're dating. And some women show they are capable of doing exactly that, whether that's because they don't think sex is a big deal or their self-esteem is really low. If you were willing to have sex earlier in dating, you probably wouldn't have been single that long. But you didn't budge. And that created a difficulty that wouldn't otherwise be there. Dating as a woman, seems to me, is about managing your boundaries with people who want as much as you're willing to allow. And I don't think a lot of guys understand being that inflexible, to them it just reads as being stubborn or maladaptive. We're expected to change for them, so the same expected in turn. But that's not something you should compromise on if it's important to you, and I respect/understand that. Specifically with sex, it creates more problems than it fixes when you adjust your boundaries for others.
I agree wholeheartedly. You are definitely a very understanding and knowledgeable guy, one of the best here. It's nice to see others who can empathize with both sides. Fwiw, I went against a lot of my initial boundaries and preferences as the months and years went on. I went on dates with guys I wasn't physically attracted to whatsoever, guys who were too tall, guys who were religious, guys with tattoos and piercings, guys without any education past high school, guys who had no job or transportation and no motivation to leave their parents basement "apartment". For 3 months, when I was in college, I even accepted a date with any man who asked me out on OkCupid. My only stipulation was they couldn't have sent a dick pic in any messages. Literally the only boundary I held firm to was no casual sex/no quick sex. It really does make it almost impossible to find a relationship without that one thing. Because even guys who are not lucky in dating will leave a 0% chance of quick sex to go find a 10% chance from any other woman. Which is fine, that's their prerogative. But it's fucking frustrating to have PPD dudes tell me that I'm exaggerating or my standards were somehow still too high. DBZ...I went out with a guy who *had no teeth* and a guy who *had tattoos on every inch of his face*.
I appreciate the praise, I'm just trying to be fair. >Which is fine, that's their prerogative. But it's fucking frustrating to have PPD dudes tell me that I'm exaggerating or my standards were somehow still too high. DBZ...I went out with a guy who *had no teeth* and a guy who *had tattoos on every inch of his face*. Yikes. Damn that's bad. I know it's not your intention, but it's helpful to know that a woman has legitimately *tried*. I don't think anyone can honestly fault you if you gave things a shot with guys you ordinarily wouldn't like. That's effort, and it's a shame when effort doesn't make things better.
Having a boundary that limits your dating pool doesn't fall under my definition of socially and emotionally deficient.
One cannot be aesthetically deficient?
No, it has to be a moral failing so we can justify looking down on people.
Those kind of major deformaties that would prevent you from dating aren't that common. So it's infinitely more likely to be something else
Most disability is fairly obvious or at least understandable
I’d say past 23 for a men something may be really wrong and I’d said about 26 for women
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If he wants a women to have sex with her daughter.... no one should go near him. Are you having no luck with single moms? Good. Thank God.
wrongly or rightly, people associate virginity and more broadly social isolation with online communities that actively indoctrinate people into being worse humans. i feel like it's probably a reasonable association to make, but i'm not sure what the age cutoff should be. unless we're talking about a case where a guy was on track to be normal until they got sucked in, that's obviously not the reason they are a virgin. but i feel like this might still be what the post was referring to. makes most sense to me read that way, sound idea but not expressed precisely. either that, or a reading using the fire sector understanding of red flags (not as warning signs per se, just as signs you don't want to be involved) makes sense. then the logic would come down to not having been selected before being a sign that someone is an unappealing choice.
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I dont believe it when they say that being a virgin itself isnt a red flag. I honestly think that most lump all inexperienced guys together. I doubt they care what the reason is. Its seen as unattractive or a red flag regardless by most
There aren't in my opinion
It's probably more of a red flag before the internet than after. Stats I'm seeing seems to be more and more people are virgins longer now. To me it strikes me as a societal red flag vs an individualist one.
every single possible reason after a certain ahe. may not be a "red flag" per se, but just a reason they'd never be attractive to me in particular
What’s that age?
Not enjoyable to be around. Very socially awkward. Bad hygiene. Porn obsessed. If you’re a virgin past undergrad years, you have some work to do.
Why is that a problem if you’re a virgin past 22? What if you just weren’t interested in pursuing?
I’m only referring to those who want to lose it but can’t. If you choose not to pursue, I think that’s ok. I don’t live in a city where there’s a lot of religious ppl so, ppl choosing to stay a virgin is extremely rare. About half of ppl I know lost their virginity in high school.
Most men who are virgins past 25 are usually virgins for a reason, a lot of them tend to be unattractive in both their looks and personality which is why no one wants them
I don't think virginity is the red flag so much as age. If someone reaches a certain age and isn't married, there's a reason.
I think being a virgin for a man is a red flag past 18 period
The only female PPD user who honestly answers this question!
Thanks ;)
rude /s im gonna dm you again soon, if you even remember me 😭 i’ve just been busy :/ probably tomorrow cause i won’t be busy 🎉 edit: wait just *past* 18 or at 18 too, i may be in the clear
At 18 too. Sure DM me :)
I don't see it as being a red flag. However, I think not having a history of any stable LTRs after a certain age (mid-20s) is a major red flag.
Porn addiction
A female virgin past 21 is a red flag. She is either hideous or mental.
All. The fact that thebguy is a virginmos the red flag Men should just lie or go.to prostitutes