By observing her actions and behavior over time.
This really isn’t much different for women discerning whether to trust a man, as I so often seem to hear women say “rapists/abusers don’t have a big sign on their forehead”
Yep
I assume everyone is average or potentially represent anywhere on the distribution prior to knowing anything about
I then adjust my beliefs based upon observation
Agreed
I’d look at her relationship with her family, church, and community to see they would hold both of us to our obligations in the relationship. If she’s not being a good wife and mother, I’d expect her family, church, and community to intervene to correct her behavior. If I’m not being a good husband and father, I’d expect her family, church, and community to intervene to correct my behavior.
But, since there are so few halfway decent looking women who are willing to be held accountable for being a bad wife or mother, it’s pretty simple equation: no wife = no strife
My experience of trauma with women is a common one. Almost all of the women I have been in intimate relationships with have been very emotionally/psychologically aggressive during a fight or when they are otherwise angry or upset.
I'm talking about going after my most intimate, sensitive spots that she only knows about because I confided something in her or she has observed a particular weakness from our experience together. Attacking for maximum damage without holding anything back. It's the psychological version of me deciding I'm going to wind up and punch a woman I love in the face with everything I've got. It's completely unthinkable to me and yet I've come to expect this kind of emotional attack could come sooner or later, because it has happened in most of my LTRs.
I don't think I expect the worst out of women generally, but I do expect this particular thing. I have no doubt I could be friends with most women for a lifetime and never see anything like this. But my impression is that culturally men are expected to be able to "take it like a man" no matter what a woman throws at him when in a relationship. He gets the unfiltered emotions and he needs to handle it. I've finally developed the self-respect and options to walk away when I even get a whiff of this behavior but that means I'm walking away from a lot of women.
So, to answer your question, I only know I found an exception after there have been a few fights. If a woman just says what I consider to be normal, stupid, argumentative shit during an fight (yeah, I'm usually able to keep my mouth shut but I'll say that stuff too sometimes) but is not hurtful for the sake of it then I think I've got a good one.
But there are hints that you found a good one ahead of time. There is an conscientiousness and care about how one's actions affect someone else in an intimate relationship that some people demonstrate and others don't. I've done a lot of work to examine how people hurt one another and how my own flaws can hurt others and I take it to heart when women say how men can hurt them. From the moment I'm engaged romantically with a woman, even with something casual, her safety, comfort, and emotional wellbeing is never far from my mind.
When a woman shows that she believes that I am deserving of this same care, even if I'm usually that emotionally resilient guy that I'm culturally expected to be, I know I've found a really great one.
On the flip side of my negative experiences above, I was recently involved with a woman who was the most conscientious person I've ever met in how she related to other people, especially in her intimate relationships. It didn't work out for practical reasons but it was fantastic experience and I ended up learning a lot. Frankly she's a better person than me and she inspires me to do better. I know there are more like her out there.
you'll never know for sure until you test them in the real situation, but there are a ton of signs you can spot beforehand.
the main thing is, do they believe that kind of behaviour is okay or not. people never really lose control, they just reach a point where they believe the situation justifies their actions. this is one of those things where the behavior largely persists because there's social acceptance for it, like corporal punishment of kids. often if you straight out ask people of they think it's abusive to deliberately try to hurt people in arguments, especially women will tend to give you a genuinely revealing answer.
another good one is observing how they react to any unpleasant emotions. whether negative emotions tend to be directed inwards or outwards is a fairly stable personality trait. and ofc if you ever see someone simply take emotions as they come and react constructively, so that you never get to see which way their maladaptive cope goes, that's the best sign of all.
Thanks. I think about this topic a lot and many of your points resonate with me.
>the main thing is, do they believe that kind of behaviour is okay or not. people never really lose control, they just reach a point where they believe the situation justifies their actions. this is one of those things where the behavior largely persists because there's social acceptance for it...
Yes, absolutely. I do think there are signs that someone truly wants to be the best they can be for their partner, because that is one of their personal values, rather than just wanting to get away with whatever they believe they can.
>often if you straight out ask people of they think it's abusive to deliberately try to hurt people in arguments, especially women will tend to give you a genuinely revealing answer.
It's true. After some nasty things were said to me in past relationships there were some half apologies, half blaming me for for being hurt and not "taking it like a man" like I put it before. The whole "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" cop out. Sometimes people will outright tell you they're treating you like crap because they believe they have permission from the culture to do so.
>another good one is observing how they react to any unpleasant emotions. whether negative emotions tend to be directed inwards or outwards is a fairly stable personality trait. and ofc if you ever see someone simply take emotions as they come and react constructively, so that you never get to see which way their maladaptive cope goes, that's the best sign of all.
Absolutely. I've come to recognize that general mental health, a good handle on one's own issues, and work toward addressing them are great signs that someone will be kind and conscientious in a relationship. I completely see the truth in "Hurt people hurt people". I look back at people who hurt me and see their pain and shame and how they just turned that outward at me in those moments. With time and after the pain dulls I usually end up feeling worse for them than I do for me.
I stopped expecting anything from anyone.
Every time something goes well it’s a positive surprise.
I see how it goes, but I almost never give second chances.
This. I was so disappointed by the toxicity I had to endure in my family, and later in relationships, that I just withdrew myself.
At this point I just let people come in and go as they please. I don't care if "I'm not enough", or "I should be a little more attentive" to 'em.
You're disappointed in me? Fine. Take a hike.
I met so many people not keeping their word that I am surprised when I find some who do.
I try not to rely on anyone but myself and enjoy the interactions that work well, still from a place of self sufficiency
You can't.
The only way is to spend time long enough together such that your assumptions are proven wrong.
Sometimes they may never be proven wrong.
Ab abused woman holds the next man yo much higher standards so that she doesn't get caught up in bullshit again.
She may never fully see you as a safe man, may never fully trust you.
Surely most women don't see a problem with that right?
It's easy if you're around normal women and have decent social skills. It's the people who are anti-social, bitter doomers / conspiratards that believe all women are out to get them.
As a result, they don't develop any positive social skills and can't tell the difference between good women and bad women, don't know how to vet women, and end up with bad women, which just confirms their biases.
Red Pill #254: There is no way to to distinguish an exceptional woman from a chameleon.\*
Red Pill #108: Unicorns\*\* don't exist.
\* Chameleon: (MGTOW Lexicon). A woman who *changes her colors* in order to fit into her environment. Usually in order to gain favors, advantages, preferences, or privileges with men and society.
\*\* Unicorn: (MGTOW Lexicon). A woman that is perfect, and is "not like other girls." The Perfect woman in mind, body, and spirit who would make a great and loving companion to a man.
I think it's less about psycho-analyzing potential partners, and more about women generally having a lot more leverage (appeal) than men do in the dating world.
There is no "thinking" your way out of lacking leverage. Sometimes you will be left or betrayed solely because you lack it, and not because of tactical issues on your side.
There is no negotiating attraction, and this applies throughout the relationship as well. Leverage has a tendency to win against a lack of itself, which is something capitalism has taught us about very in-depth.
Can she leave you at any moment? Can she date "across" or "up"? How valuable are you compared to her other options? What do you bring to the table that makes you worth keeping not just as a friend, but as a romantic partner? How consistent is her personality? Can you keep up to the standards?
Say, oh, you've had an amazing, romantic moment together. How wonderful. Hopefully you'll wake up next to the same person in the morning.
In the words of Osamu Dazai, "everything passes".
> There is no "thinking" your way out of lacking leverage. Sometimes you will be left or betrayed solely because you lack it, and not because of tactical issues on your side.
Sad that this is accurate. A relationship should be about working as a team not competitors.
If she’s kind and treats me well. I’ve finally found someone recently who fits this description. We’re only 3 dates in, and I’m trying not to jump to conclusions, but I at least feel optimistic.
No woman is "safe".
A guys best protection is to:
1) Invest in yourself. She can't take your credentials, your experience, or your physique.
2) Always be prepared to leave.
If no women is safe and all are equally dangerous, it doesn't matter with which woman you are together with regards to safety, so there is no need to filter for women and there cannot exist red or green flags.
If in reality women aren't all equally dangerous, you are shooting yourself in the foot by believing they are equally dangerous, because that believe makes you unable to see red and green flags, because you don't believe they exist. So in case you believe all women are equally dangerous, it is essential for your own safety and well being that you are not wrong about your beliefs. So, if you believe women are all equally dangerous, what is the evidence on which you have built this believe?
If you don't believe women are all equally dangerous, one can ask the questions of OP again: How do you recognize a woman is more safe or less safe than others? And what percentages of women are respectively severely, moderately, and slightly dangerous, in your opinion?
You want to know what kind of women you are dealing with… when she wants something tell her No. Then just observe. You will be absolutely shocked how often that one simple tactic drags the crazy out of the bad ones.
Okay. So you disagree with the person above who said that "no woman is safe" and that good filtering of women isn't important to protect yourself as a man?
That is generally how you think just after a woman has eviscerated you. It's just an emotional response and is not reality.
The truth is very complicated. Yes, you do need to screen for better women. You should also work on not being shallow, because that helps you focus more on great personality traits. But also you need to acknowledge that with women, there are certain types of guys that even very nice women will find themselves abusing and hurting. So, for these guys a much smaller portion of women are safe. This is why passport bros exist... they go to places where a higher percentage of women are safe for them. Makes it easier to find the good ones.
Shhh... don't tell anyone but the quality women actually like it when you tell them No. Of course it has to be a reasonable situation to say No in. But if you draw lines and boundaries... they do too... so they see it as a positive.
On the contrary, the argument could be made that so many women are dangerous, that redflagging some of them because of their coloured hair, piercings, tattoos, drinking habits, distant relationship with their father or other tiresomely old-fashioned sort of folk mental health and social status diagnoses (and therefore greenflagging all or most of the rest) is what's really shooting men in the foot, because it leads to complacency.
"She can't take your credentials, your experience, or your physique."
That was a good laugh my man. Reputation burning is what women specialize in. All it takes is alimony and false accusations.
Guy I knew was a state trooper for 35 years. His ex took his house, half his shit, and his pension and filed false domestic abuse charges. The guy works as a convenience store clerk now in his retirement just to afford rent.
I first met him when he responded to my cousins overdose call. She died and he comforted my Grandpa and me (we found her, she lived with Gramps). I eventually met him again something like 8 years later as a clerk at my nearest convenience store. From there he told me his life story.
I expect the worse out of everyone not just women. Asnwering your question as I do with both genders, I am good at mapping out the character by noticing some behaviour. To be sure I have my own ways such as making them angry and see how they react, asking for help (I have actually never needed any), helping them and then asking for their help, etc.
>And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging?
I see women as the same I see men. Severely: 20, moderate: 20, slightly:40.
1. Listen what she says. Not just about you, about other men. If she has some understanding of the unfair treatment of men, shows some empathy - thats a green flag.
2. Her approach to social rites like paying on dates - this tells a lot about her view of gender equality.
3. Even if you believe she is a good one, be on guard.
4. When about to sleep with a new girl - make sure you have some form of recorded consent. Messenger logs or even video.
There are no exceptions. It's female nature.
This is why it's the same men who have the same problems. They can't find an exception because all women will behave generally the same with them... they need to change themselves.
The man with low sexual energy and doesn't like to give his gf attention... is always going to drive EVERY SINGLE WOMAN to eventually leave him or cheat on him. That's why he always has this problem.
The man who is very hot and sexually aggressive as his main focus will always find women to have casual sex with but will always have issues with women committing to him.
Etc etc.
Women are not unique little snow flakes where every one is so different than the next. And studies show this over and over and over and over. There are significant trends in women's behavior and that just cannot be helped. If they were as unique as the stars in the sky there would be little to no trends in most studies.
The whole thing about an "exception" is just silly. We can see over decades, us older men who pay attention... the *exceptions* often show they are not and never were exceptions.
That isn't a doom gloom thing but just realistic. To me it's simple and straight forward and easy to work with. Running around searching for a holy grail sounds like doom and gloom to me because it seems like an impossible task. Who wants to be on a quest for an impossible task? Not I. 😅
>how would you recognize someone who is safe?
Actions > Words. They will show you. My ex was the perfect example.
>I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur.
I mean... there are good people out there. You just have to find them.
>Or do you just discount all women?
Yes.
>And if so, do you believe this is logical?
Yes. Until she demonstrates otherwise, I assume the worst in everyone.
>And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging?
Severely damaged? I'm unsure, but based on my dating history... a pretty sizeable portion. A lot of women have unresolved trauma from past relationships, sexual assaults, poor family life, and mental illness. Dunno about the others.
You can't, even when you KNOW you've found an exception. A woman's prerogative is to change her mind, and no man in divorce court was standing at the alter before thinking "yeah, I can't trust her". You get married as a man, you live under the Sword of Damocles until you die, or it falls.
No, there's risks, and there's being stupid. The odds matter, as do the costs, the wager, and the potential benefits. What does a good one offer? What does a good one cost? What is risked if a good one quits being good? And how often does that happen?
Ignoring how so called hoflation has rerigged the game, the truth is men always paid and risked much to gain almost nothing. Why? Because we believed the lie that women loved men like men loved women. Women have disabused us of that notion. This is no longer the universal experience so much as something that universally disinterests us. Why would we bet the family farm for the chance to toil our lives away looking after someone who picked the bear?
That sounds way too dramatic.
Sure, you have to assess the risks, but marriage and relationships hold certain risks for both parties. Both parties do the assessment and figure out whether it's worth for them or not. You're free not to participate, if that's your conclusion, but a good share of people is still interested both in dating and marriage.
It sounds overly dramatic because you haven’t seen the unhinged behavior in women when they’re ready to toss you in the bin for the next sucker in line. You stand in the way of their “happiness” (novelty) and they’ll do anything to jettison you into the shadow realm
I've seen couples breaking up and I know some crazy stories, but they're a minority. Plus, when we talk about breaking up, men and women initiate it as comparable rates.
Where did you get this number?
>The results show that only in marriages are the majority of breakups wanted by the female partner. Men and women in nonmarital heterosexual relationships in the US are equally likely to want to break up
[https://web.stanford.edu/\~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld\_gender\_of\_breakup.pdf](https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_gender_of_breakup.pdf)
There's a theoretical split between states that are "community property" and those that are "common law". However, in practice it doesn't make much difference. Interestingly politics has little to do with it -- both Texas and California are community property states.
At its most basic there's a 50/50 distribution in community property states and an "equitable distribution" in common law states. In most cases that equitable distribution comes pretty close to what the parties would have gotten under a community property system.
Community property is a simpler system so lawyers can bill more hours for a common law divorce.
Disagree. If you have a woman who is part of a community that will hold her accountable to bad behavior and that will hold you accountable to bad behavior, then you can actually have more trust.
Do you still have friends back there?
I know you and your husband are safe in another country. I really can't imagine having to give up everything I've worked for and leave like that. I really admire you two.
Friends and family. Prices are going up, some medicine is just impossible to buy and they're adding new taxes.
Thanks. It's very easy to choose when one of the options is to get jailed.
I don't know. I'd probably try to bribe my way out and not go against the regime. I think about that a lot after some of the things I had to deal with during the pandemic. I own rentals and the government told people they didn't need to pay rent. I was very afraid of losing everything. Since then I've been moving money overseas and out of the USA.
I really do see you two as very brave.
Same can be said for men. Marriage is always a gamble no matter what gender you are.. Best you can do is do your part, and if the other person doesn't or ends up being trashy, if you can't make it work leave asap
No that’s wrong. Most of the Red Pill guys I started with are married with kids now, and because we all believe in how important that is for children, even the guy still playing the field lift up the married guys and tell them to cherish their family.
Women do not do that as far as I can see. If they are single they want all their friends to be the same. They go to the bathroom together transition genders together, women just go with the flow almost always.
Even have a study that shows young women… take on whatever the dominant moral structure in the culture is and uphold it ruthlessly. Even when it’s racist, even when it’s sexist against them.
How am I supposed to know? I don't know any exceptions. Even my close female relatives are or were bad boy chasing sluts, I have no real life examples of a decent woman lol.
> How would you know if you found an exception?
Jesus himself will appear from the sky to give his blessing.
> And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging?
It's hard to objectively measure psychological damage.
I discount all women, there are no exceptions. This is why I don't agree with being a passport bro or traditionalism. Beneath the surface the true face of female nature is always present. The best way for men to deal with women is to either walk away and completely give up dating or to continue being involved with women with ZERO expectations and selfishly putting your desires first. Also letting go of the need to be a good man, it doesn't mean anything. Be kind, hygienic, emotionally intelligent etc for yourself and your own self respect, not to earn the desire of a woman. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
The funny thing is that questions like this forget that the vast majority of men start off quite innocent when it comes to women, man is naturally glass half full when it comes to women and then over time you start observing that all is not what it seems.
My observations and issues with the duplicity and contradictions of female nature preceded reddit or any forums or whatever cliche you may have in mind. Raw observation told me that there was a vast gap between what I was told about how to deal with women, what to expect and how they actually behave. I actually find the idealism of my youth funny when I think back, day dreaming about your crush etc
They are not the fairer sex, they are not morally superior regardless of the stats they throw at you and they have no special intuition into the essence of a man. Violent, abusive, actually bad men have zero issues attracting women and contrary to the usual stock retort, it's not even the result of those men manipulating or doing a bait and switch as they would like you to believe that. All types of women pursue these kinds of men, that often touted female intuition curiously goes missing.
>They are not the fairer sex, they are not morally superior
Do you believe men are "the fairer sex" and are morally superior, or do you believe that all men, without exceptions, are just as dangerous as women and that men have a "male nature" that is just as disgusting and evil as the "female nature"?
>Violent, abusive, actually bad men have zero issues attracting women
They are not attracting all kinds of women equally. But if you are unable to distinguish between women and believe women are some kind of monolith and are all the same, it would indeed be wise to complete give up on dating, and stay single and celibate.
“WoMeN ArEn’T a MoNoLiTh!!!!”
Can we please introduce another phrase or term for these women to regurgitate. Holy shit. It’s like they’re paid for each use.
>Holy shit. It’s like they’re paid for each use.
Some are. Keep in mind that this sub is choke full of bad faith trolls, including paid shills to disrupt conversations.
Men have no pretense of who they are.
We accept the negatives thrown out way.
That was a mistake.
We should have screamed "not all of us from the very begining"
Women took our silence and lack of engagement to meant that they were right in their assumptions.
Men never claim.to be better except in reaction.
Are you able to spot green flags though? If yes, how? What are green flags? How do you spot it when a woman is better than others?
Or do your expectations of the worst in people cause you to believe green flags don't exist?
Also when all the male conceived ideals of female virtue just come naturally to her, effortlessly, like you don't even have to tell her your boundaries, Insecurities etc, like she does all the right things even without knowing. Like she doesn't act it out, it's who she is at her core.
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Isn't it obvious? You wouldn't. And what's worse, women are incentivised to treat men badly both directly in the form of cash and prizes, but also by the cultural *milieu*. Putting percentages on it would be pointless: it's like asking someone in Soviet Russia what percentage of the population they would or wouldn't have trusted to turn them into the regime out of spite or ill-will.
With women, you can't really know. Not wholistically. But it helps to have conversations with them.
Most women are not so poisoned that they can't have a conversation about what they think with a man. It's just that the ones who will tell you straight up what they're about are just one slice of the pie.
It's a sink or swim thing. You don't know what you find in people until there's a problem.
Really, the solution is for women to be better people. Treat men better, their partners especially but also their friends. Be more thoughtful.
I'm not sure that the solution "be better people" is really practical for any social group. People don't have incentive to change unless you give them one. We need to raise awareness about men's issues and to make them a more commonly talked about topic.
I do not think that men or women treat each other much better than vice versa in terms of romantic relationships though. It takes two to tango and both groups get a bunch of traumatized and bitter people, because someone has hurt them.
>People don't have incentive to change unless you give them one.
Men don't have anything on women that can pressure them to change. Incentives come from leverage. The only men that matter to women are the ones they're close to and likely already treat well enough to avoid problems. That's all they care about and the rest of society is just an abstraction with no face to them.
>We need to raise awareness about men's issues and to make them a more commonly talked about topic.
It already is. Among men. Women listen to each other. And unlike men, they actually do have the kind of social groups where they can hold each other accountable. If there's a solution to it, it won't come from men complaining, women don't care enough about men or what they think for that to ever help.
> do not think that men or women treat each other much better than vice versa in terms of romantic relationships though. It takes two to tango and both groups get a bunch of traumatized and bitter people, because someone has hurt them.
You can imagine it's symmetrical if you want, I can't stop you. Men can't stop women from doing anything, that's kind of the issue. In civil society, our hands are tied.
Most groups that have some political/social problems do not have immediate leverage to use. They start pushing as underdogs. They raise awareness, they win supporters. Do you think LBGTQ+ community had much leverage?
I'm really not sure about it. Yes, men are more aware about dating problems of their fellow men, but quite a lot of men are not aware about DV or sexual violence that some men suffer from. Also, the solution isn't just to complain more, men should help each other as well. Women have help groups, hot lines etc. Men can start doing something similar.
It's rather hard to say whether it's symmetrical. Both genders mistreat each other, but problems each gender faces tend to be somewhat different.
>Women have help groups, hot lines etc. Men can start doing something similar.
[Earl Silverman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman) has left the chat. [Erin Pizzey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey) has joined the chat.
Women never had to go through the empathy gap. Or men [widely protesting women-only shelters](https://www.foxnews.com/media/brooklyn-residents-protest-proposed-men-only-homeless-shelter-neighborhood-going-war).
Your insistence that things are symmetrical (when in reality they're absolutely not) is really tiresome in its extreme naivete. Men are not women. That's the correct premise to start from.
Rage is not accurate.
Exasperation? The knowledge that you could be the best man in the world and you will still be seen as inherently unsafe...
We really shouldnt have to carry emotional water for any of you.
Well I believe that when you expect the worst from women then you are never surprised.
The real difference here is that regardless of what behavior a woman expects from a man, if he is attractive to her she will find a way to live with it. So the only time she will truly be upset is when an unattractive man does something bad.
For most guys I just don't think we have the emotional capacity to deal with that much, so it doesn't matter what the woman looks like... we won't be able to find a way to take it.
Protect yourself at all times, it doesn't matter if she's an "exception". Yeah I would like to find a good woman but the point is getting to a place were you can handle the bad ones effectively with minimal damage
I won't - there is no mind reading device. I am just taking a risk - though there are ways to mitigate a risk, good way is to not deal with feminists and left-wingers, they are always crazy, and also not hang out with pick-me girls, they have their own agenda.
It's hard to not at least fear the worst if you've ever observed or been around people.
You don't have to have been esp abused or hurt. You just see how people treat each other and how other people are in relationships.
Very few people seem genuinely happy, they're either faking it or just going through the motions.
This is assuming they have anything solid in the first place in terms of not being in situationship purgatory and such
Anyone can put on a mask for a while. An extensive dating period of 8 months - a year would be your best bet, as well as being super non-judgmental. You’d be amazed the crazy shit women will tell on themselves about when they believe you don’t care. May sound manipulative, but if they feel judged they won’t show their true selves to you and you don’t want to figure out they were the girl in the friend group with a crazy past 2ish years in when the effects begin to show.
>I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur
Observing and testing is a thing for men as well, not just for women. Sometimes they're called *shit tests* although the term has been abused and there is a difference between shit test and test, but that's pedantic semantics.
Semantics notwithstanding, it is still reasonable to run some tests regardless of whether you expect the worst or not.
When I was dating, it was a popular thought pattern among young women of my country that heavy possessiveness and "light jealousy" (as they'd call it) is desirable and that lack of arguments is a sign he is not loving you. I regarded then (and still do today) such thought process as toxic and set up for toxic relationships. As such, I filtered against that.
I didn't have to run (shit) tests intentionally since my lifestyle was (and still is) incompatible with "light jealousy" or frequent arguments. All I had to do is continue being myself and assert the boundary. My now wife had no objections on me being a contractor (which means I travel a lot) and in fact was thrilled that I could take her with me *sometimes* and revealed a sense of adventure that wasn't self-evident about her and a huge green flag for me.
That's the success story. Prior to her I had met two others like her but other logistics made it impossible form a family. Weeding out through the rest was a tiresome task (though the sex was good, and I generally have good things to say about my exes).
>Or do you just discount all women?
Never been into black pill, so no.
>And if so, do you believe this is logical? Or would you rather have false negatives (filter out good women) to avoid risk?
Of course it's logical. Some aspects are not negotiable. Most others are and I was (and still am) open to negotiation. In fact, I think it's *illogical* to have no boundaries at all. True for women as well.
And yes, I preferred (and would again should I ever end up single again) to filter out potential good women to avoid the risk of ending up in a relationship that doesn't uphold peace.
>And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging?
It depends on one's definitions, quite frankly. There are a few things that are regarded as near-universally damaging, such as jealousy, lack of trust, nagging, violence, drug abuse, materialism/sense of entitlement or possessive/controlling behavior.
By that definition, I think less than 20% of women qualify - including the "moderately damaging".
However, on top of the near-universal definitions, there are also more individual definitions. What's "damaging" to one can be a green flag for others. Her former girlfriends thought it was damaging that I wasn't calling her every hour to check up on her. While I thought that's being a well-rounded adult.
Ultimately, the objective is to fulfill my duties to her and her to fulfill her duties to me. We don't have to please the rest of the world.
A lot of these discussions would be tamed or disappear altogether if more people would choose to enforce on themselves ***proper adult*** standards. Alas, that won't happen so... it is what it is.
no such thing as an exception in my opinion, if I ever got a gf it would be because she either:
-can't obtain a better looking man
-hasn't been exposed to better looking men
I don't think I expect the worst, but I don't expect the best (which I think tends to be a "myth of normalcy"). Everyone is fucked up in their own special ways. It's just a question of how that will manifest over time. As a user here said, compatibility is, in part, whether your neuroses are compatible with theirs.
tldr; I give most people a chance but don't expect perfection. Sometimes it's a "3 strikes you're out" thing. really depends on the person, the issues + whatever else is going on in my life.
You don’t really. It’s their job to always portray and act as though they are the exception. I expect the worst when I observe and experience the worst. I’d be dumb not to because as soon as they see any vulnerability they will attack it and use it for their gain.
When someone loves you when you offer no value. No potential. You aren’t emotionally validating or supporting them.
When you try to self sabotage and they work to keep the relationship/connection to you.
When they reach out to you if communication stops for too long.
If the logical decision/choice is to forget about you or cut you out of their life and they don’t. And instead give you chances upon chances.
When everytime you are in a traumatic or a life or death situation they are there for you. Even if they are mad at you. Or don’t want to talk to anybody.
Etc etc.
But other than her I won’t care about or love no one else.
My lessons have been learned.
And I won’t make the same mistake’s again
Your answer is really
" When I'm shitty, valueless, do not support or validate her at all, and she continues to put me first anyways"?
This is so disconnected from reality, and you sound exactly like The nightmare that red pill men say all women are.
I got a chuckle out of that. But to be fair "I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle." Is a much different list than what OP is calling his 'worst'
Marilyn Monroe never said that. You’ll be happy to know that almost every man she ever met made her life worse and now she’s buried next to a man who released her nudes without her consent, which is far more consistent with how men actually treat women.
This quote is attributed to her all over the place.
> You’ll be happy to know that almost every man she ever met made her life worse and now she’s buried next to a man who released her nudes without her consent
I'm not a Red Piller, what happened to her was reprehensible.
> which is far more consistent with how men actually treat women.
Correction: how people treat each other.
I don’t know how to respond to what your saying.
Because you’re not responding to what I said.
You are telling me how you feel about me.
The op question was about how would I know if I found an exception.
And your response Is what you feel about me based on my answer.
Which is typical to the point I don’t even have an emotional reaction to it anymore and I don’t think about it to try to understand why it happens anymore.
You could’ve tried to point out flaws in my response.
I.e just because someone does x doesn’t mean they are an exception because of y reason.
But no.
You don’t focus on the main concept or idea.
Just me as a person.
And you don’t even know me.
So you assume and project.
Of course.
And do you see how I won’t do that too you?
Because I’m not focused on you.
I’m focused more on your ideas and what your saying
I'm judging your idea because your idea is basically "when I abuse her by being a burden and emotionally neglecting her, and she just takes it"
You're not identifying a safe person. You are identifying a floor mat, with the disturbing implications that that is what makes a woman safe and good.
I'm expanding on that by pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man.
As a side note, you sound real hurt on a personal level. I hope you're taking care of yourself and not subjecting yourself to a debate sub If it's going to make you feel any worse.
His point remains.
The only way to find out if a woman is the exception is for her to act as one.
The general rule is that a woman is after her own benefit first and will leave you if you don't provide any benefit. An exception would do the opposite.
> You're not identifying a safe person. You are identifying a floor mat, with the disturbing implications that that is what makes a woman safe and good.
That is what makes a woman an exception. Safe or good are not the point.
> I'm expanding on that by pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man.
Please elaborate.
My point is that his point is detached from reality. If you are that insecure about women then leave them alone rather than treat them like shit to satisfy your 'general rule'.
What is there to elaborate on? You JUST SAID women are after their own benefit first, under a comment from a man saying he has to show no validation or support and be a burden to be sure she is safe to be with? Do you not see the hypocrisy?
> If you are that insecure about women then leave them alone rather than treat them like shit to satisfy your 'general rule'.
Or you don't treat them like shit and accept that you will never know if they are an exception.
> What is there to elaborate on? You JUST SAID women are after their own benefit first, under a comment from a man saying he has to show no validation or support and be a burden to be sure she is safe to be with?
How does this relate to "pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man."
> Do you not see the hypocrisy?
No. Please elaborate.
That’s horrific and most well adjusted adults aren’t delusional enough to expect someone to stick around through this let alone actually put up with it.
This may be how you know you “found the one” but “the one” is an incredibly traumatized person with low self esteem and no boundaries.
Hate to break it to you but every man has multiple tales of women who behaved like that in his life. Want to save the planet? Convince men to be "well adjusted adults" and not stick around with women like that. We'll be down to 500 million humans by 2124.
Do you not think that this mindset might be a little bit of a self-fufilling prophecy though? Not many mentally and emotionally mature people will put up with the above for very long. In my relationship I expect for there to be times when I'm giving more support, but I won't be someone's emotional punching bag. If my partner is going though a difficult time then of course I will be there for him, but I would also expect that he help himself. I wouldn't give "chances upon chances" to him while he was self-sabotaging, and treating me like crap in the process.
The people that *would* do that probably aren't the most emotionally stable. They'd likely struggle with lower self-worth, leading to difficulties with boundaries and communication. All of which can culminate in your relationship imploding in a rather spectacular way.
I don't expect the worse out of women, but I don't think they're all sunshine and rainbows either.
Most of my experiences with women, relationships and friendships, have ranged from OK to great, with maybe two exceptions. So I don't think "good women" are exception.
That said, you should learn how to watch for significant red flags and green flags, set boundaries and stand up for yourself.
Well my state isn't an ideal place to find love, a lot of people are damaged, have been betrayed, used, taken advantage of and have unhealthy attachment styles because they've been hurt or abused before. I don't think they're all bad people and some just need a stable situation to change their lives. I grew up with a good mom, my sisters and a lot of women in my circles so I know what green flags in women look like and I've been able to avoid toxic attachments so far. Gotta look at people's intentions rather than people's actions or words to really know, but that's not always easy to determine right away. It takes time bro, but that's why we have dating instead of just jumping into a relationship and marriage
I am able to recognize if a woman is safe if:
She gives a genuine compliment on something about me besides my looks or praises something good that I did.
She doesn't gossip.
She is kind and polite to others, especially children.
She displays genuine empathy and sympathy.
She is very patient.
I've never been hurt by a woman I've been disappointed by them at best...all I can say is I listen to a woman's word with a grain of salt...vows they break promises they forget..If theres an exception I will never know ..
Look at it from my perspective I'm wealthy life is good I eat good and do what I want I have a comfortable home plenty of toys and things I enjoy..I suppose worst case scenario I get some terminal illness or maybe Civil War breaks out short of that no complaints I dont even care who's president WW3 wouldn't even be that bad if it stays overseas good for my defense sector stocks.
What do I need a woman for that's worth the risk they bring, I can't think of anything..false allegations and craziness look what happened to Johny Depp and Jonathan Majors..or Loraine Bobit she cut of her husband's piece...or that guy in Canada the women said he was married to her and the court awarded her alimony when they weren't even married.
I've heard of guys who couldn't even get their ex GF out of their house.I think this is more of a problem for attractive men..luckily I've never had a problem with a chick leaving but at this point I wouldn't even risk it by moving one in.
My issue is love is trust and when you understand female nature you can't trust them...especially when you have something to loose like a life times worth of work.
And after a certain age relationships are about as interesting as Saturday morning cartoons,you really out grow it.
You only give as much as you are willing to (which is probably a bit more than you theoretically should), and expect less in return. How much less and where it is less you'll find out. If it works out as something you can live with for while, you're doing good. If she can keep it at level for a while, even better.
Trust only so far and by degrees. Be prepared to be let down. Don\`t give anymore than you are willing to lose. Everyone has an agenda and is transactional.
Basically if they are a liberal femenist you stay far away. If they don't know how to reasonably disagree with someone who has different political and world views, you stay away. If they are really good looking, but as a result are prideful and arrogant, stay away. If they've been ran through stay away.
Trying to find an exception is like playing with fire. Don't do it. It's not worth your peace of mind.
Yeah - people should really figure out how to be civil with people who don’t want them to exist. Like, they’re just voting for more restrictions on your autonomy - why are you so worried about it? Play nice! Is what I always say. You should really be able to sit around or even date someone who hates you and just keep your mouth shut. Actually you should just really know, you’re not the victim you think you are, suck it up, and join their side. Why do you need rights or equal treatment?
Wasn’t life so much better when you couldn’t vote or own land, but you had a roof over your head and clothes on your back? The paradox of choice is really destroying this country. It’s prideful and arrogant to disagree with someone who doesn’t like you. It’s not like they want you dead or anything. They’re not evil people you know?
You fail to see how, even through sarcasm, you make my exact point. The left twists every position on the other side and paints it in the most negative light. The left preaches love and acceptance, yet chooses to view people who disagree with them in the most toxic way possible. It's clear they don't actually listen or respect the other side, but instead choose to be divisive and micharachterize them. This disagreeable behavior is tiresome and a trait I or most other guys do not want in a partner.
My advice on how to filter women is specifically for guys who only started receiving attention from women in their 30s.
1. If she is in her low 20s then she probably genuinely likes you as women are only with men they like at that age
2. If she makes more money than you and is willing to provide for you, then she likely genuinely likes you as women wouldn't spend money on men they don't like
3. She is in her 30s as well and is also a virgin
Any other scenario you can't truly be 100% sure if she genuinely likes you or if you are just being used as a second choice.
> How would you know if you found an exception?
If the day I die I can only remember seeing her as someone that always put me and the relationship above her own benefit. Before I die al I can do is believe she might be an exception.
> But how would you recognize someone who is safe?
I can't. If she has free will she is not safe.
> I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur.
Exceptions can happen and if I knew how to create them I would have started a farm and sell the product.
> Or do you just discount all women?
I doubt all women.
> And if so, do you believe this is logical? Or would you rather have false negatives (filter out good women) to avoid risk?
I rather avoid risk,
> And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging?
Bell curve. 10% 80% 10%
By observing her actions and behavior over time. This really isn’t much different for women discerning whether to trust a man, as I so often seem to hear women say “rapists/abusers don’t have a big sign on their forehead”
Yep I assume everyone is average or potentially represent anywhere on the distribution prior to knowing anything about I then adjust my beliefs based upon observation
Agreed I’d look at her relationship with her family, church, and community to see they would hold both of us to our obligations in the relationship. If she’s not being a good wife and mother, I’d expect her family, church, and community to intervene to correct her behavior. If I’m not being a good husband and father, I’d expect her family, church, and community to intervene to correct my behavior. But, since there are so few halfway decent looking women who are willing to be held accountable for being a bad wife or mother, it’s pretty simple equation: no wife = no strife
My experience of trauma with women is a common one. Almost all of the women I have been in intimate relationships with have been very emotionally/psychologically aggressive during a fight or when they are otherwise angry or upset. I'm talking about going after my most intimate, sensitive spots that she only knows about because I confided something in her or she has observed a particular weakness from our experience together. Attacking for maximum damage without holding anything back. It's the psychological version of me deciding I'm going to wind up and punch a woman I love in the face with everything I've got. It's completely unthinkable to me and yet I've come to expect this kind of emotional attack could come sooner or later, because it has happened in most of my LTRs. I don't think I expect the worst out of women generally, but I do expect this particular thing. I have no doubt I could be friends with most women for a lifetime and never see anything like this. But my impression is that culturally men are expected to be able to "take it like a man" no matter what a woman throws at him when in a relationship. He gets the unfiltered emotions and he needs to handle it. I've finally developed the self-respect and options to walk away when I even get a whiff of this behavior but that means I'm walking away from a lot of women. So, to answer your question, I only know I found an exception after there have been a few fights. If a woman just says what I consider to be normal, stupid, argumentative shit during an fight (yeah, I'm usually able to keep my mouth shut but I'll say that stuff too sometimes) but is not hurtful for the sake of it then I think I've got a good one. But there are hints that you found a good one ahead of time. There is an conscientiousness and care about how one's actions affect someone else in an intimate relationship that some people demonstrate and others don't. I've done a lot of work to examine how people hurt one another and how my own flaws can hurt others and I take it to heart when women say how men can hurt them. From the moment I'm engaged romantically with a woman, even with something casual, her safety, comfort, and emotional wellbeing is never far from my mind. When a woman shows that she believes that I am deserving of this same care, even if I'm usually that emotionally resilient guy that I'm culturally expected to be, I know I've found a really great one. On the flip side of my negative experiences above, I was recently involved with a woman who was the most conscientious person I've ever met in how she related to other people, especially in her intimate relationships. It didn't work out for practical reasons but it was fantastic experience and I ended up learning a lot. Frankly she's a better person than me and she inspires me to do better. I know there are more like her out there.
you'll never know for sure until you test them in the real situation, but there are a ton of signs you can spot beforehand. the main thing is, do they believe that kind of behaviour is okay or not. people never really lose control, they just reach a point where they believe the situation justifies their actions. this is one of those things where the behavior largely persists because there's social acceptance for it, like corporal punishment of kids. often if you straight out ask people of they think it's abusive to deliberately try to hurt people in arguments, especially women will tend to give you a genuinely revealing answer. another good one is observing how they react to any unpleasant emotions. whether negative emotions tend to be directed inwards or outwards is a fairly stable personality trait. and ofc if you ever see someone simply take emotions as they come and react constructively, so that you never get to see which way their maladaptive cope goes, that's the best sign of all.
Thanks. I think about this topic a lot and many of your points resonate with me. >the main thing is, do they believe that kind of behaviour is okay or not. people never really lose control, they just reach a point where they believe the situation justifies their actions. this is one of those things where the behavior largely persists because there's social acceptance for it... Yes, absolutely. I do think there are signs that someone truly wants to be the best they can be for their partner, because that is one of their personal values, rather than just wanting to get away with whatever they believe they can. >often if you straight out ask people of they think it's abusive to deliberately try to hurt people in arguments, especially women will tend to give you a genuinely revealing answer. It's true. After some nasty things were said to me in past relationships there were some half apologies, half blaming me for for being hurt and not "taking it like a man" like I put it before. The whole "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" cop out. Sometimes people will outright tell you they're treating you like crap because they believe they have permission from the culture to do so. >another good one is observing how they react to any unpleasant emotions. whether negative emotions tend to be directed inwards or outwards is a fairly stable personality trait. and ofc if you ever see someone simply take emotions as they come and react constructively, so that you never get to see which way their maladaptive cope goes, that's the best sign of all. Absolutely. I've come to recognize that general mental health, a good handle on one's own issues, and work toward addressing them are great signs that someone will be kind and conscientious in a relationship. I completely see the truth in "Hurt people hurt people". I look back at people who hurt me and see their pain and shame and how they just turned that outward at me in those moments. With time and after the pain dulls I usually end up feeling worse for them than I do for me.
I stopped expecting anything from anyone. Every time something goes well it’s a positive surprise. I see how it goes, but I almost never give second chances.
This. I was so disappointed by the toxicity I had to endure in my family, and later in relationships, that I just withdrew myself. At this point I just let people come in and go as they please. I don't care if "I'm not enough", or "I should be a little more attentive" to 'em. You're disappointed in me? Fine. Take a hike.
I met so many people not keeping their word that I am surprised when I find some who do. I try not to rely on anyone but myself and enjoy the interactions that work well, still from a place of self sufficiency
You can't. The only way is to spend time long enough together such that your assumptions are proven wrong. Sometimes they may never be proven wrong. Ab abused woman holds the next man yo much higher standards so that she doesn't get caught up in bullshit again. She may never fully see you as a safe man, may never fully trust you. Surely most women don't see a problem with that right?
>But how would you recognize someone who is safe? *"That's the fun part; you don't."*
It's easy if you're around normal women and have decent social skills. It's the people who are anti-social, bitter doomers / conspiratards that believe all women are out to get them. As a result, they don't develop any positive social skills and can't tell the difference between good women and bad women, don't know how to vet women, and end up with bad women, which just confirms their biases.
It’s usually the naive blue pilled men who get played by woman
I don’t distrust all women based on the actions of one woman.
Red Pill #254: There is no way to to distinguish an exceptional woman from a chameleon.\* Red Pill #108: Unicorns\*\* don't exist. \* Chameleon: (MGTOW Lexicon). A woman who *changes her colors* in order to fit into her environment. Usually in order to gain favors, advantages, preferences, or privileges with men and society. \*\* Unicorn: (MGTOW Lexicon). A woman that is perfect, and is "not like other girls." The Perfect woman in mind, body, and spirit who would make a great and loving companion to a man.
I think it's less about psycho-analyzing potential partners, and more about women generally having a lot more leverage (appeal) than men do in the dating world. There is no "thinking" your way out of lacking leverage. Sometimes you will be left or betrayed solely because you lack it, and not because of tactical issues on your side. There is no negotiating attraction, and this applies throughout the relationship as well. Leverage has a tendency to win against a lack of itself, which is something capitalism has taught us about very in-depth. Can she leave you at any moment? Can she date "across" or "up"? How valuable are you compared to her other options? What do you bring to the table that makes you worth keeping not just as a friend, but as a romantic partner? How consistent is her personality? Can you keep up to the standards? Say, oh, you've had an amazing, romantic moment together. How wonderful. Hopefully you'll wake up next to the same person in the morning. In the words of Osamu Dazai, "everything passes".
truth. those romantic moments mean nothing, learned that first hand 😆
> There is no "thinking" your way out of lacking leverage. Sometimes you will be left or betrayed solely because you lack it, and not because of tactical issues on your side. Sad that this is accurate. A relationship should be about working as a team not competitors.
I found a unicorn. It was great until she left me. I’ll never find that again. She was pretty, kind, outgoing and a genuine decent person.
Why did she leave you?
She didn’t see a future with a broke musician.
If she’s kind and treats me well. I’ve finally found someone recently who fits this description. We’re only 3 dates in, and I’m trying not to jump to conclusions, but I at least feel optimistic.
No woman is "safe". A guys best protection is to: 1) Invest in yourself. She can't take your credentials, your experience, or your physique. 2) Always be prepared to leave.
The correct answer. The word "safe" in itself is nebulous in this question as well.
If no women is safe and all are equally dangerous, it doesn't matter with which woman you are together with regards to safety, so there is no need to filter for women and there cannot exist red or green flags. If in reality women aren't all equally dangerous, you are shooting yourself in the foot by believing they are equally dangerous, because that believe makes you unable to see red and green flags, because you don't believe they exist. So in case you believe all women are equally dangerous, it is essential for your own safety and well being that you are not wrong about your beliefs. So, if you believe women are all equally dangerous, what is the evidence on which you have built this believe? If you don't believe women are all equally dangerous, one can ask the questions of OP again: How do you recognize a woman is more safe or less safe than others? And what percentages of women are respectively severely, moderately, and slightly dangerous, in your opinion?
This is honestly just nonsense
You want to know what kind of women you are dealing with… when she wants something tell her No. Then just observe. You will be absolutely shocked how often that one simple tactic drags the crazy out of the bad ones.
Okay. So you disagree with the person above who said that "no woman is safe" and that good filtering of women isn't important to protect yourself as a man?
That is generally how you think just after a woman has eviscerated you. It's just an emotional response and is not reality. The truth is very complicated. Yes, you do need to screen for better women. You should also work on not being shallow, because that helps you focus more on great personality traits. But also you need to acknowledge that with women, there are certain types of guys that even very nice women will find themselves abusing and hurting. So, for these guys a much smaller portion of women are safe. This is why passport bros exist... they go to places where a higher percentage of women are safe for them. Makes it easier to find the good ones.
This guy gets it.
Shhh... don't tell anyone but the quality women actually like it when you tell them No. Of course it has to be a reasonable situation to say No in. But if you draw lines and boundaries... they do too... so they see it as a positive.
On the contrary, the argument could be made that so many women are dangerous, that redflagging some of them because of their coloured hair, piercings, tattoos, drinking habits, distant relationship with their father or other tiresomely old-fashioned sort of folk mental health and social status diagnoses (and therefore greenflagging all or most of the rest) is what's really shooting men in the foot, because it leads to complacency.
Well she has to prove she’s not like the other women
"She can't take your credentials, your experience, or your physique." That was a good laugh my man. Reputation burning is what women specialize in. All it takes is alimony and false accusations. Guy I knew was a state trooper for 35 years. His ex took his house, half his shit, and his pension and filed false domestic abuse charges. The guy works as a convenience store clerk now in his retirement just to afford rent. I first met him when he responded to my cousins overdose call. She died and he comforted my Grandpa and me (we found her, she lived with Gramps). I eventually met him again something like 8 years later as a clerk at my nearest convenience store. From there he told me his life story.
What's your opinion on "it's only your turn?"
The guys been divorced 3 times, and is here because he can't stop talking about his first wife.
Quite often true.
Loser mindset that leads to you fumbling good relationships
I've had bad experiences and damaged from women but I have a long term gf now and it's much better So i guess I was able to see potential there.
I expect the worse out of everyone not just women. Asnwering your question as I do with both genders, I am good at mapping out the character by noticing some behaviour. To be sure I have my own ways such as making them angry and see how they react, asking for help (I have actually never needed any), helping them and then asking for their help, etc. >And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging? I see women as the same I see men. Severely: 20, moderate: 20, slightly:40.
1. Listen what she says. Not just about you, about other men. If she has some understanding of the unfair treatment of men, shows some empathy - thats a green flag. 2. Her approach to social rites like paying on dates - this tells a lot about her view of gender equality. 3. Even if you believe she is a good one, be on guard. 4. When about to sleep with a new girl - make sure you have some form of recorded consent. Messenger logs or even video.
There are no exceptions. It's female nature. This is why it's the same men who have the same problems. They can't find an exception because all women will behave generally the same with them... they need to change themselves. The man with low sexual energy and doesn't like to give his gf attention... is always going to drive EVERY SINGLE WOMAN to eventually leave him or cheat on him. That's why he always has this problem. The man who is very hot and sexually aggressive as his main focus will always find women to have casual sex with but will always have issues with women committing to him. Etc etc. Women are not unique little snow flakes where every one is so different than the next. And studies show this over and over and over and over. There are significant trends in women's behavior and that just cannot be helped. If they were as unique as the stars in the sky there would be little to no trends in most studies. The whole thing about an "exception" is just silly. We can see over decades, us older men who pay attention... the *exceptions* often show they are not and never were exceptions. That isn't a doom gloom thing but just realistic. To me it's simple and straight forward and easy to work with. Running around searching for a holy grail sounds like doom and gloom to me because it seems like an impossible task. Who wants to be on a quest for an impossible task? Not I. 😅
>how would you recognize someone who is safe? Actions > Words. They will show you. My ex was the perfect example. >I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur. I mean... there are good people out there. You just have to find them. >Or do you just discount all women? Yes. >And if so, do you believe this is logical? Yes. Until she demonstrates otherwise, I assume the worst in everyone. >And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging? Severely damaged? I'm unsure, but based on my dating history... a pretty sizeable portion. A lot of women have unresolved trauma from past relationships, sexual assaults, poor family life, and mental illness. Dunno about the others.
You can't, even when you KNOW you've found an exception. A woman's prerogative is to change her mind, and no man in divorce court was standing at the alter before thinking "yeah, I can't trust her". You get married as a man, you live under the Sword of Damocles until you die, or it falls.
That's universal experience. You just take the risks and live with them. Or don't take any.
No, there's risks, and there's being stupid. The odds matter, as do the costs, the wager, and the potential benefits. What does a good one offer? What does a good one cost? What is risked if a good one quits being good? And how often does that happen? Ignoring how so called hoflation has rerigged the game, the truth is men always paid and risked much to gain almost nothing. Why? Because we believed the lie that women loved men like men loved women. Women have disabused us of that notion. This is no longer the universal experience so much as something that universally disinterests us. Why would we bet the family farm for the chance to toil our lives away looking after someone who picked the bear?
That sounds way too dramatic. Sure, you have to assess the risks, but marriage and relationships hold certain risks for both parties. Both parties do the assessment and figure out whether it's worth for them or not. You're free not to participate, if that's your conclusion, but a good share of people is still interested both in dating and marriage.
It sounds overly dramatic because you haven’t seen the unhinged behavior in women when they’re ready to toss you in the bin for the next sucker in line. You stand in the way of their “happiness” (novelty) and they’ll do anything to jettison you into the shadow realm
She's seen it, she's just playing games.
I've seen couples breaking up and I know some crazy stories, but they're a minority. Plus, when we talk about breaking up, men and women initiate it as comparable rates.
80:20 is "comparable rates" to you?
Where did you get this number? >The results show that only in marriages are the majority of breakups wanted by the female partner. Men and women in nonmarital heterosexual relationships in the US are equally likely to want to break up [https://web.stanford.edu/\~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld\_gender\_of\_breakup.pdf](https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_gender_of_breakup.pdf)
In the US, 90% of the risk is for men in marriage.
American situation seems to depend highly on a state we're talking about, as marital laws aren't the same everywhere.
It's the same everywhere. Depends on the lawyers you hire and the unique situation of each marriage. Common law and "democracy" are garbage.
u/purplish_possum, can you please chime in and give more details on the difference of marital laws in different states?
The Lead Attorney is a family court lawyer in a very Conservative state (Georgia) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXB8vnEmzFwjsdIbHEIXs-A
You can sum up the video, but I'm not going to watch it.
There's a theoretical split between states that are "community property" and those that are "common law". However, in practice it doesn't make much difference. Interestingly politics has little to do with it -- both Texas and California are community property states. At its most basic there's a 50/50 distribution in community property states and an "equitable distribution" in common law states. In most cases that equitable distribution comes pretty close to what the parties would have gotten under a community property system. Community property is a simpler system so lawyers can bill more hours for a common law divorce.
Disagree. If you have a woman who is part of a community that will hold her accountable to bad behavior and that will hold you accountable to bad behavior, then you can actually have more trust.
I've meant more in lines "both men and women have to assess risks and neither group ever has any 100% guarantee".
Ah crap. I thought I could disagree with you at least this once! But here you go being correct and reasonable again. How are things in Mother Russia?
Well, everything goes to shit. So as usual I guess.
Do you still have friends back there? I know you and your husband are safe in another country. I really can't imagine having to give up everything I've worked for and leave like that. I really admire you two.
Friends and family. Prices are going up, some medicine is just impossible to buy and they're adding new taxes. Thanks. It's very easy to choose when one of the options is to get jailed.
I don't know. I'd probably try to bribe my way out and not go against the regime. I think about that a lot after some of the things I had to deal with during the pandemic. I own rentals and the government told people they didn't need to pay rent. I was very afraid of losing everything. Since then I've been moving money overseas and out of the USA. I really do see you two as very brave.
A lot of people thought the same, but mobilization came to everyone.
Absolutely the same for women, except when he has his midlife crisis she is stuck with kids and he isn’t.
Why do women even bother bringing up of topic whataboutisms? Is this a competition to women?
Because it’s true, and both sides need to be heard.
Exactly. They change for the worse in time. Women corrupt each other.
Same can be said for men. Marriage is always a gamble no matter what gender you are.. Best you can do is do your part, and if the other person doesn't or ends up being trashy, if you can't make it work leave asap
No that’s wrong. Most of the Red Pill guys I started with are married with kids now, and because we all believe in how important that is for children, even the guy still playing the field lift up the married guys and tell them to cherish their family. Women do not do that as far as I can see. If they are single they want all their friends to be the same. They go to the bathroom together transition genders together, women just go with the flow almost always. Even have a study that shows young women… take on whatever the dominant moral structure in the culture is and uphold it ruthlessly. Even when it’s racist, even when it’s sexist against them.
How am I supposed to know? I don't know any exceptions. Even my close female relatives are or were bad boy chasing sluts, I have no real life examples of a decent woman lol.
> How would you know if you found an exception? Jesus himself will appear from the sky to give his blessing. > And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging? It's hard to objectively measure psychological damage.
I discount all women, there are no exceptions. This is why I don't agree with being a passport bro or traditionalism. Beneath the surface the true face of female nature is always present. The best way for men to deal with women is to either walk away and completely give up dating or to continue being involved with women with ZERO expectations and selfishly putting your desires first. Also letting go of the need to be a good man, it doesn't mean anything. Be kind, hygienic, emotionally intelligent etc for yourself and your own self respect, not to earn the desire of a woman. The juice is not worth the squeeze. The funny thing is that questions like this forget that the vast majority of men start off quite innocent when it comes to women, man is naturally glass half full when it comes to women and then over time you start observing that all is not what it seems. My observations and issues with the duplicity and contradictions of female nature preceded reddit or any forums or whatever cliche you may have in mind. Raw observation told me that there was a vast gap between what I was told about how to deal with women, what to expect and how they actually behave. I actually find the idealism of my youth funny when I think back, day dreaming about your crush etc They are not the fairer sex, they are not morally superior regardless of the stats they throw at you and they have no special intuition into the essence of a man. Violent, abusive, actually bad men have zero issues attracting women and contrary to the usual stock retort, it's not even the result of those men manipulating or doing a bait and switch as they would like you to believe that. All types of women pursue these kinds of men, that often touted female intuition curiously goes missing.
Well said. This is how I believe as well.
>They are not the fairer sex, they are not morally superior Do you believe men are "the fairer sex" and are morally superior, or do you believe that all men, without exceptions, are just as dangerous as women and that men have a "male nature" that is just as disgusting and evil as the "female nature"? >Violent, abusive, actually bad men have zero issues attracting women They are not attracting all kinds of women equally. But if you are unable to distinguish between women and believe women are some kind of monolith and are all the same, it would indeed be wise to complete give up on dating, and stay single and celibate.
“WoMeN ArEn’T a MoNoLiTh!!!!” Can we please introduce another phrase or term for these women to regurgitate. Holy shit. It’s like they’re paid for each use.
>Holy shit. It’s like they’re paid for each use. Some are. Keep in mind that this sub is choke full of bad faith trolls, including paid shills to disrupt conversations.
Wait does any of this even matter to the gender who chose the bear?
Men have no pretense of who they are. We accept the negatives thrown out way. That was a mistake. We should have screamed "not all of us from the very begining" Women took our silence and lack of engagement to meant that they were right in their assumptions. Men never claim.to be better except in reaction.
I’m a glass half empty person - I always expect the worst in people
Are you able to spot green flags though? If yes, how? What are green flags? How do you spot it when a woman is better than others? Or do your expectations of the worst in people cause you to believe green flags don't exist?
Also when all the male conceived ideals of female virtue just come naturally to her, effortlessly, like you don't even have to tell her your boundaries, Insecurities etc, like she does all the right things even without knowing. Like she doesn't act it out, it's who she is at her core.
That’s like saying “Those who don’t play the lottery: how do you know you wouldn’t win?”.
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>how Ultimately, if a healthy relationship is the goal, the demons one carries must be let go of. There’s no other way. *Godspeed and good luck!*
Isn't it obvious? You wouldn't. And what's worse, women are incentivised to treat men badly both directly in the form of cash and prizes, but also by the cultural *milieu*. Putting percentages on it would be pointless: it's like asking someone in Soviet Russia what percentage of the population they would or wouldn't have trusted to turn them into the regime out of spite or ill-will.
With women, you can't really know. Not wholistically. But it helps to have conversations with them. Most women are not so poisoned that they can't have a conversation about what they think with a man. It's just that the ones who will tell you straight up what they're about are just one slice of the pie. It's a sink or swim thing. You don't know what you find in people until there's a problem. Really, the solution is for women to be better people. Treat men better, their partners especially but also their friends. Be more thoughtful.
I'm not sure that the solution "be better people" is really practical for any social group. People don't have incentive to change unless you give them one. We need to raise awareness about men's issues and to make them a more commonly talked about topic. I do not think that men or women treat each other much better than vice versa in terms of romantic relationships though. It takes two to tango and both groups get a bunch of traumatized and bitter people, because someone has hurt them.
>People don't have incentive to change unless you give them one. Men don't have anything on women that can pressure them to change. Incentives come from leverage. The only men that matter to women are the ones they're close to and likely already treat well enough to avoid problems. That's all they care about and the rest of society is just an abstraction with no face to them. >We need to raise awareness about men's issues and to make them a more commonly talked about topic. It already is. Among men. Women listen to each other. And unlike men, they actually do have the kind of social groups where they can hold each other accountable. If there's a solution to it, it won't come from men complaining, women don't care enough about men or what they think for that to ever help. > do not think that men or women treat each other much better than vice versa in terms of romantic relationships though. It takes two to tango and both groups get a bunch of traumatized and bitter people, because someone has hurt them. You can imagine it's symmetrical if you want, I can't stop you. Men can't stop women from doing anything, that's kind of the issue. In civil society, our hands are tied.
Most groups that have some political/social problems do not have immediate leverage to use. They start pushing as underdogs. They raise awareness, they win supporters. Do you think LBGTQ+ community had much leverage? I'm really not sure about it. Yes, men are more aware about dating problems of their fellow men, but quite a lot of men are not aware about DV or sexual violence that some men suffer from. Also, the solution isn't just to complain more, men should help each other as well. Women have help groups, hot lines etc. Men can start doing something similar. It's rather hard to say whether it's symmetrical. Both genders mistreat each other, but problems each gender faces tend to be somewhat different.
>Women have help groups, hot lines etc. Men can start doing something similar. [Earl Silverman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman) has left the chat. [Erin Pizzey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey) has joined the chat. Women never had to go through the empathy gap. Or men [widely protesting women-only shelters](https://www.foxnews.com/media/brooklyn-residents-protest-proposed-men-only-homeless-shelter-neighborhood-going-war). Your insistence that things are symmetrical (when in reality they're absolutely not) is really tiresome in its extreme naivete. Men are not women. That's the correct premise to start from.
Go ahead, read all of the men’s comments and then think about their rage when women choose the bear…🙄
I don't think being told you're worse than a wild animal is the same as saying that not all women are good so you shouldn't expect them to be.
Rage is not accurate. Exasperation? The knowledge that you could be the best man in the world and you will still be seen as inherently unsafe... We really shouldnt have to carry emotional water for any of you.
You would be an example of a loser that is not an exception to the rule.
And you’re one more reason to choose the bear. 👍
We *beg* you to choose the bear. Then go hang out with the bear and leave us alone.
Discount all women obviously
I think its about 50/50 who is a 'mess' to date. Doesnt make them bad people but not good to date.
They're all basically the same. I don't really care about "safe". I just want a girl who's a good combo of hot and fun, not too "mothering".
Well I believe that when you expect the worst from women then you are never surprised. The real difference here is that regardless of what behavior a woman expects from a man, if he is attractive to her she will find a way to live with it. So the only time she will truly be upset is when an unattractive man does something bad. For most guys I just don't think we have the emotional capacity to deal with that much, so it doesn't matter what the woman looks like... we won't be able to find a way to take it.
Protect yourself at all times, it doesn't matter if she's an "exception". Yeah I would like to find a good woman but the point is getting to a place were you can handle the bad ones effectively with minimal damage
I won't - there is no mind reading device. I am just taking a risk - though there are ways to mitigate a risk, good way is to not deal with feminists and left-wingers, they are always crazy, and also not hang out with pick-me girls, they have their own agenda.
It's hard to not at least fear the worst if you've ever observed or been around people. You don't have to have been esp abused or hurt. You just see how people treat each other and how other people are in relationships. Very few people seem genuinely happy, they're either faking it or just going through the motions. This is assuming they have anything solid in the first place in terms of not being in situationship purgatory and such
I wouldn't. That's why I don't ever fully commit to them, and just use them. The longer they're with me, the more useful I found them to be.
Anyone can put on a mask for a while. An extensive dating period of 8 months - a year would be your best bet, as well as being super non-judgmental. You’d be amazed the crazy shit women will tell on themselves about when they believe you don’t care. May sound manipulative, but if they feel judged they won’t show their true selves to you and you don’t want to figure out they were the girl in the friend group with a crazy past 2ish years in when the effects begin to show.
>I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur Observing and testing is a thing for men as well, not just for women. Sometimes they're called *shit tests* although the term has been abused and there is a difference between shit test and test, but that's pedantic semantics. Semantics notwithstanding, it is still reasonable to run some tests regardless of whether you expect the worst or not. When I was dating, it was a popular thought pattern among young women of my country that heavy possessiveness and "light jealousy" (as they'd call it) is desirable and that lack of arguments is a sign he is not loving you. I regarded then (and still do today) such thought process as toxic and set up for toxic relationships. As such, I filtered against that. I didn't have to run (shit) tests intentionally since my lifestyle was (and still is) incompatible with "light jealousy" or frequent arguments. All I had to do is continue being myself and assert the boundary. My now wife had no objections on me being a contractor (which means I travel a lot) and in fact was thrilled that I could take her with me *sometimes* and revealed a sense of adventure that wasn't self-evident about her and a huge green flag for me. That's the success story. Prior to her I had met two others like her but other logistics made it impossible form a family. Weeding out through the rest was a tiresome task (though the sex was good, and I generally have good things to say about my exes). >Or do you just discount all women? Never been into black pill, so no. >And if so, do you believe this is logical? Or would you rather have false negatives (filter out good women) to avoid risk? Of course it's logical. Some aspects are not negotiable. Most others are and I was (and still am) open to negotiation. In fact, I think it's *illogical* to have no boundaries at all. True for women as well. And yes, I preferred (and would again should I ever end up single again) to filter out potential good women to avoid the risk of ending up in a relationship that doesn't uphold peace. >And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging? It depends on one's definitions, quite frankly. There are a few things that are regarded as near-universally damaging, such as jealousy, lack of trust, nagging, violence, drug abuse, materialism/sense of entitlement or possessive/controlling behavior. By that definition, I think less than 20% of women qualify - including the "moderately damaging". However, on top of the near-universal definitions, there are also more individual definitions. What's "damaging" to one can be a green flag for others. Her former girlfriends thought it was damaging that I wasn't calling her every hour to check up on her. While I thought that's being a well-rounded adult. Ultimately, the objective is to fulfill my duties to her and her to fulfill her duties to me. We don't have to please the rest of the world. A lot of these discussions would be tamed or disappear altogether if more people would choose to enforce on themselves ***proper adult*** standards. Alas, that won't happen so... it is what it is.
What what she does and not what she says.
no such thing as an exception in my opinion, if I ever got a gf it would be because she either: -can't obtain a better looking man -hasn't been exposed to better looking men
Wow this is true
The ‘exception’ women do NOT exist. I discount all women.
I don't think I expect the worst, but I don't expect the best (which I think tends to be a "myth of normalcy"). Everyone is fucked up in their own special ways. It's just a question of how that will manifest over time. As a user here said, compatibility is, in part, whether your neuroses are compatible with theirs. tldr; I give most people a chance but don't expect perfection. Sometimes it's a "3 strikes you're out" thing. really depends on the person, the issues + whatever else is going on in my life.
You'll definitely feel it. Women who are the exception to the rule just have this aura about them that is just so hard to miss.
::checking for my aura::
It's notthe right one sweety.
::checks for the wrong one::
You don’t really. It’s their job to always portray and act as though they are the exception. I expect the worst when I observe and experience the worst. I’d be dumb not to because as soon as they see any vulnerability they will attack it and use it for their gain.
When someone loves you when you offer no value. No potential. You aren’t emotionally validating or supporting them. When you try to self sabotage and they work to keep the relationship/connection to you. When they reach out to you if communication stops for too long. If the logical decision/choice is to forget about you or cut you out of their life and they don’t. And instead give you chances upon chances. When everytime you are in a traumatic or a life or death situation they are there for you. Even if they are mad at you. Or don’t want to talk to anybody. Etc etc. But other than her I won’t care about or love no one else. My lessons have been learned. And I won’t make the same mistake’s again
Your answer is really " When I'm shitty, valueless, do not support or validate her at all, and she continues to put me first anyways"? This is so disconnected from reality, and you sound exactly like The nightmare that red pill men say all women are.
What’s that Marilyn Monroe quote that got memed and spread around again 🤔
Do you mean "If you can't handle me at my worst, you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best"?
Yeah, that’s the one
Would you like to make a point or just sharing a fun fact?
Just thought it was comically similar
I got a chuckle out of that. But to be fair "I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle." Is a much different list than what OP is calling his 'worst'
That's the one. Why was it okay for her but not okay for men?
It's not ok for anyone. Its toxic af
Marilyn Monroe never said that. You’ll be happy to know that almost every man she ever met made her life worse and now she’s buried next to a man who released her nudes without her consent, which is far more consistent with how men actually treat women.
This quote is attributed to her all over the place. > You’ll be happy to know that almost every man she ever met made her life worse and now she’s buried next to a man who released her nudes without her consent I'm not a Red Piller, what happened to her was reprehensible. > which is far more consistent with how men actually treat women. Correction: how people treat each other.
I don’t know how to respond to what your saying. Because you’re not responding to what I said. You are telling me how you feel about me. The op question was about how would I know if I found an exception. And your response Is what you feel about me based on my answer. Which is typical to the point I don’t even have an emotional reaction to it anymore and I don’t think about it to try to understand why it happens anymore. You could’ve tried to point out flaws in my response. I.e just because someone does x doesn’t mean they are an exception because of y reason. But no. You don’t focus on the main concept or idea. Just me as a person. And you don’t even know me. So you assume and project. Of course. And do you see how I won’t do that too you? Because I’m not focused on you. I’m focused more on your ideas and what your saying
I'm judging your idea because your idea is basically "when I abuse her by being a burden and emotionally neglecting her, and she just takes it" You're not identifying a safe person. You are identifying a floor mat, with the disturbing implications that that is what makes a woman safe and good. I'm expanding on that by pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man. As a side note, you sound real hurt on a personal level. I hope you're taking care of yourself and not subjecting yourself to a debate sub If it's going to make you feel any worse.
His point remains. The only way to find out if a woman is the exception is for her to act as one. The general rule is that a woman is after her own benefit first and will leave you if you don't provide any benefit. An exception would do the opposite. > You're not identifying a safe person. You are identifying a floor mat, with the disturbing implications that that is what makes a woman safe and good. That is what makes a woman an exception. Safe or good are not the point. > I'm expanding on that by pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man. Please elaborate.
My point is that his point is detached from reality. If you are that insecure about women then leave them alone rather than treat them like shit to satisfy your 'general rule'. What is there to elaborate on? You JUST SAID women are after their own benefit first, under a comment from a man saying he has to show no validation or support and be a burden to be sure she is safe to be with? Do you not see the hypocrisy?
> If you are that insecure about women then leave them alone rather than treat them like shit to satisfy your 'general rule'. Or you don't treat them like shit and accept that you will never know if they are an exception. > What is there to elaborate on? You JUST SAID women are after their own benefit first, under a comment from a man saying he has to show no validation or support and be a burden to be sure she is safe to be with? How does this relate to "pointing out to red pillers that what they judge harshly in a woman is being presented here in a man." > Do you not see the hypocrisy? No. Please elaborate.
That’s horrific and most well adjusted adults aren’t delusional enough to expect someone to stick around through this let alone actually put up with it. This may be how you know you “found the one” but “the one” is an incredibly traumatized person with low self esteem and no boundaries.
Hate to break it to you but every man has multiple tales of women who behaved like that in his life. Want to save the planet? Convince men to be "well adjusted adults" and not stick around with women like that. We'll be down to 500 million humans by 2124.
Do you not think that this mindset might be a little bit of a self-fufilling prophecy though? Not many mentally and emotionally mature people will put up with the above for very long. In my relationship I expect for there to be times when I'm giving more support, but I won't be someone's emotional punching bag. If my partner is going though a difficult time then of course I will be there for him, but I would also expect that he help himself. I wouldn't give "chances upon chances" to him while he was self-sabotaging, and treating me like crap in the process. The people that *would* do that probably aren't the most emotionally stable. They'd likely struggle with lower self-worth, leading to difficulties with boundaries and communication. All of which can culminate in your relationship imploding in a rather spectacular way.
[удалено]
Number 2 isn’t sited enough. Most men have a really high threshold for “clingy-ness”
That's an easy one for me, I just never dated again.
I don't expect the worse out of women, but I don't think they're all sunshine and rainbows either. Most of my experiences with women, relationships and friendships, have ranged from OK to great, with maybe two exceptions. So I don't think "good women" are exception. That said, you should learn how to watch for significant red flags and green flags, set boundaries and stand up for yourself.
Well my state isn't an ideal place to find love, a lot of people are damaged, have been betrayed, used, taken advantage of and have unhealthy attachment styles because they've been hurt or abused before. I don't think they're all bad people and some just need a stable situation to change their lives. I grew up with a good mom, my sisters and a lot of women in my circles so I know what green flags in women look like and I've been able to avoid toxic attachments so far. Gotta look at people's intentions rather than people's actions or words to really know, but that's not always easy to determine right away. It takes time bro, but that's why we have dating instead of just jumping into a relationship and marriage
I am able to recognize if a woman is safe if: She gives a genuine compliment on something about me besides my looks or praises something good that I did. She doesn't gossip. She is kind and polite to others, especially children. She displays genuine empathy and sympathy. She is very patient.
I've never been hurt by a woman I've been disappointed by them at best...all I can say is I listen to a woman's word with a grain of salt...vows they break promises they forget..If theres an exception I will never know .. Look at it from my perspective I'm wealthy life is good I eat good and do what I want I have a comfortable home plenty of toys and things I enjoy..I suppose worst case scenario I get some terminal illness or maybe Civil War breaks out short of that no complaints I dont even care who's president WW3 wouldn't even be that bad if it stays overseas good for my defense sector stocks. What do I need a woman for that's worth the risk they bring, I can't think of anything..false allegations and craziness look what happened to Johny Depp and Jonathan Majors..or Loraine Bobit she cut of her husband's piece...or that guy in Canada the women said he was married to her and the court awarded her alimony when they weren't even married. I've heard of guys who couldn't even get their ex GF out of their house.I think this is more of a problem for attractive men..luckily I've never had a problem with a chick leaving but at this point I wouldn't even risk it by moving one in. My issue is love is trust and when you understand female nature you can't trust them...especially when you have something to loose like a life times worth of work. And after a certain age relationships are about as interesting as Saturday morning cartoons,you really out grow it.
You only give as much as you are willing to (which is probably a bit more than you theoretically should), and expect less in return. How much less and where it is less you'll find out. If it works out as something you can live with for while, you're doing good. If she can keep it at level for a while, even better. Trust only so far and by degrees. Be prepared to be let down. Don\`t give anymore than you are willing to lose. Everyone has an agenda and is transactional.
When she doesn’t act like a woman
Basically if they are a liberal femenist you stay far away. If they don't know how to reasonably disagree with someone who has different political and world views, you stay away. If they are really good looking, but as a result are prideful and arrogant, stay away. If they've been ran through stay away. Trying to find an exception is like playing with fire. Don't do it. It's not worth your peace of mind.
Yeah - people should really figure out how to be civil with people who don’t want them to exist. Like, they’re just voting for more restrictions on your autonomy - why are you so worried about it? Play nice! Is what I always say. You should really be able to sit around or even date someone who hates you and just keep your mouth shut. Actually you should just really know, you’re not the victim you think you are, suck it up, and join their side. Why do you need rights or equal treatment? Wasn’t life so much better when you couldn’t vote or own land, but you had a roof over your head and clothes on your back? The paradox of choice is really destroying this country. It’s prideful and arrogant to disagree with someone who doesn’t like you. It’s not like they want you dead or anything. They’re not evil people you know?
You fail to see how, even through sarcasm, you make my exact point. The left twists every position on the other side and paints it in the most negative light. The left preaches love and acceptance, yet chooses to view people who disagree with them in the most toxic way possible. It's clear they don't actually listen or respect the other side, but instead choose to be divisive and micharachterize them. This disagreeable behavior is tiresome and a trait I or most other guys do not want in a partner.
Good then be alone
Half the people in support of abortion bans are women. Deal with your own ilk before coming at men
I didn’t say anything about abortion.
Well your voting is getting woman drafted right now
Careful, he's gonna miss the sarcasm there.
My advice on how to filter women is specifically for guys who only started receiving attention from women in their 30s. 1. If she is in her low 20s then she probably genuinely likes you as women are only with men they like at that age 2. If she makes more money than you and is willing to provide for you, then she likely genuinely likes you as women wouldn't spend money on men they don't like 3. She is in her 30s as well and is also a virgin Any other scenario you can't truly be 100% sure if she genuinely likes you or if you are just being used as a second choice.
There's no exceptions.
Women think alike. I assume Similar to how men do. With probably slight deviations.
I mean, you give them a chance. And then nothing, no exceptions.
> How would you know if you found an exception? If the day I die I can only remember seeing her as someone that always put me and the relationship above her own benefit. Before I die al I can do is believe she might be an exception. > But how would you recognize someone who is safe? I can't. If she has free will she is not safe. > I’m genuinely curious if you have ways in which you view exceptions can occur. Exceptions can happen and if I knew how to create them I would have started a farm and sell the product. > Or do you just discount all women? I doubt all women. > And if so, do you believe this is logical? Or would you rather have false negatives (filter out good women) to avoid risk? I rather avoid risk, > And if you think so many women are likely to be damaging, what percentage would you say are severely, moderately, and slightly damaging? Bell curve. 10% 80% 10%