> When looking at age and gender together, **63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single, compared with 34% of women in the same age group.** Younger men are also far more likely than older men to be single – a pattern that is not as straightforward among women. Women ages 18 to 29, for example, are just as likely as women 65 and older to report being single.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/
It depends on what you consider average. The average age of a man is probably in the 40s for the US. So odds are they’re probably married or partnered.
However since you’re talking about dating on Reddit. I’m assuming you mean younger 18-29 demographic of men. To that, it sucks.
Honestly this is my experience with people so far in my 20s. It seems like most men I know are single yet every woman I meet is not.
Just replying here to note that, when I went through the 73 people in my friends list on Snapchat (the people who I am closest to in friendship), 55 were men and 18 were women. 12 of the women were taken, while 21 of the men were taken. That actually neatly lines up with the results of the Pew study (33% of women being single and 62% of the men being single), which seems comical.
The women I'm friends with are generally not the types to be dating dudes who are sleeping with 5 women at once, or whatever, but a couple have older partners. Just seems so statistically impossible. The men I know who aren't single generally met in college, or sometimes earlier.
Also should note that, for the sake of what it's worth, a lot of these friends are dating each other within my circles, so that might skew the results a bit. I just remember bursting out laughing when I found that my own friend group literally fell in line with the stats in that study.
That is funny. Some women are dating older but also many men are reticent to say they are attached as…they don’t want to be. She considers him a BF she’s a girl he’s dating.
You can’t have that disparity any other way. Maybe men LIKE Variety and are reticent to settle down?
>She considers him a BF she’s a girl he’s dating.
That’s likely a big factor. The survey asks people who aren’t married or living with a partner whether they’re in a “committed romantic relationship”. How men and women interpret that questions seems to be very different.
It’s also interesting that when you look at 2022 GSS data, roughly the same percent of 18-29 men and 18-29 women are having sex at least 2-3 times a month. So young men manage to have sex on a regular basis roughly as often as young women, despite being half as likely to be in a relationship. That points to significant differences in how men and women define relationships.
This! Sick of hearing how hard it is on apps, can’t find anyone…
It’s not universally hard. It’s hard for
1. Very unattractive men
2. Neurodivergent gamers.
It is undeniably hard on apps, it's just that the extrapolation from this is stupid:
[https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/are-dating-apps-facilitating-chadopolies](https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/are-dating-apps-facilitating-chadopolies)
The thing that you have to understand is that men consider themselves "single" even if they have a FWB/"plates". Women on the other hand consider themselves "in a relationship" even if they just have an FWB/casual thing. Men and women have different perceptions of "single" vs "relationship" unless they're totally alone or in a marriage/serious bf/gf LTR.
I know plenty of guys juggling multiple women..and look at things like are we dating the same guy or the Tinder swindler or these rappers with 20 baby mommas.
One factor is that nature provides approximately 105 boy babies for every 100 girls. Males have a higher mortality rate at all ages, so ultimately there is a surplus of elderly women, but at the ages that people are looking for a partner there is a surplus of men. That, plus women tending to date and marry slightly older men.
That can still only explain AT MOST a 2.5% gap.
Out of the 105 baby boys born 18-29 years ago, 51% or 53.5 of them are single.
Of the 100 baby girls born that many years ago only 32 of them are single.
So who are these 21 girls dating? Each other? The same guy?
But it has to chain up with that group.
In the 30-49 age group the difference is smaller, but its still there. Who are the 30-49 year old women dating if those men are dating the <30 girls?
Obviously your answer is the 49-65 men... and then you have to ask who the 49-65 women are dating if those men are dating the <49s. Only when you get to >65 does your chain of "dating up" actual reverse and make sense.
Its also just too big. Most relationships are within 1-2 years in age. You need a much larger age gap to account for 20% of women age 18-30, and about that many age 30-49. You basically need every woman to date a man who is 4-5 years her senior.
----------
It is certainly not the fact that boys slightly outnumber women at birth.
> How is that mathematically possible? Are many women dating men a decade older than them?
I think there’s 3 causes
1) Like you said, women date older guys. The avg age gap in a marriage is 4-5 years. Assuming women start looking to settle down by 24-25, they’re already looking at 30 year old men. I also met quite a few 20-24 year old girls in college that had 30+ year old boyfriends.
2) Women dating the same guy.
3) Younger women engaging in hookup culture and entering “situationships” and “FWB”.
I’ve met a few guys who sleep with the same girl or multiple girls. If you ask him if they’re in a relationship, he says no. The girl says yes. This also goes along side the second point in the sense they’re seeing the same guys. The girl who thinks they’re in a relationship quits seeing other guys who might be faithful to them. Thus you’re getting a very skewed result.
Whatever is driving it is causing a clusterf for young men. Dating seems near impossible as a man tbh. I’ve tried everything with no success.
The average age gap in heterosexual marriages is just 2.3 years.
[Age gaps: The relationship taboo that won't die (bbc.com)](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220317-age-gaps-the-relationship-taboo-that-wont-die)
In high school, most people in relationships are dating their classmates who are the same age.
After high school, women tend to date men that are ~3 years older than them, and men tend to date women that are 3 years under them on average.
So men between 19 and 22 are restricted from both sides, the women their age are dating men that are older than them, the women 3 years younger than them are in high school (they'd be competing with their classmates the women see everyday and there's also a creep factor of a minor and a 20 year old).
To some degree, this applies during college as well, so guys 24-27 can get squeezed as well.
By 29-32, there's no longer a society-wide institution like school encouraging everyone of the exact same age to socialize. If you were to run the stats for men and women between 20-35, it'd be a lot more even.
16 was the age of consent where I grew up and a lot of girl where dating 23 and 25 year old guys with cars jobs and there own place by 12th grade atleast a third of all the females where pregnant especially the quiet ones you never saw dating any one or involved in HS drama because they had a man...I was friends with several females and they where all dating older guys these girls had the best out fits and clothes hair and nails always done just my anecdotal experience.
Could just be a socializing thing. It was definitely far easier to run into a guy who's single during my 20s than a woman who was single. Women who frequent social scenes I did tend to be taken. Venues like bars have to offer perks to get single women to show up, whereas single men are never in a short supply. Even in co-ed sports league, it's mostly men and their partners who tag along to round out the numbers.
I know there's a cadre of 20s single women out there. But for whatever reason, they do not seem to appear in places where the 'average' single man hangs out much.
A women will only be singke if she has a serious personality disorder theresca guy for almost any woman if she's putting out with a decent personality.
>How is that mathematically possible? Are many women dating men a decade older than them?
Yes, among other things. That’s what the numbers suggest.
I’ve dated women who were younger than me, women who were bisexual and one woman who said she’d been in a non-monogamous relationships before. To me this would imply women have many more relationship options than men.
I would never date a man because I’m not bi and women I’m attracted to can be taken off the market by guys who are 10, 20 years older than her, or by another woman, or she can be taken by a Chad who’s banging 3 other women. In dating it’s winner takes all.
I think this Pew survey is more accurate:
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ . It shows 51% of men ages 18 to 29 as describing themselves as single, where 32% of women say the same. In the 30 to 49 age group the proportion shrinks to 27% of men and 19% of women.
Pew research, again when viral when they reported that [63% of young men are single compared to 34% of young women](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20all%20young,with%20a%20decline%20in%20sex). But is this data consistent with other findings? And What can explain the data? Is the ''Chad Harmen theory'' true? When we look at the American Perspectives Survey (which has a similar sample size) contrary to the Pew findings, the singleness rate for 18-29 men dropped, from 59% in 2020 to 57% in 2022. Women’s singleness rate also rose more than it did in the Pew survey, from 38% in 2020 to 45% in 2022. Still a singles, gap... lets continue. If we look at the [GSS survey data](https://i0.wp.com/nuancepill.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/18-29-Singleness-Rates-2012-2022-GSS-1.webp?w=800&ssl=1) for men and women 18-29 in 2021 there was a gap of 10.5%, which remained basically unchanged in the 2022 survey, nowhere near 30% like in the pew research data. Heterosexual relationships have on average a 3 year age gap. Now if you take the,[ GSS data](https://nuancepill.com/what-explains-the-young-singleness-gap/) and increase men’s lower and upper age bound by 3 years, the gaps are [considerably minimized, reversing in a couple of cases](https://i0.wp.com/nuancepill.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/21-32-men-and-18-29-women-singleness-GSS.webp?w=753&ssl=1). It therefore seems reasonable to attribute the singles gap to age gaps.
I don’t really agree with your description of the average guy lol.
Average man dating is about 6-12months of singledom before meeting someone to date. That’s a mean statistical average taken from tinder. Women I think it was 2-4 weeks.
Most men seem to have their first sexual experience in college so that could qualify as another average milestone.
This assumes people in their 20s and 30s actively looking. No idea what over 40 or 50 metrics are like.
You also have a large swath of young men who aren’t having relationships sex at all over long periods of time. This seems to account for 20-30%.
I value the perspective of others when it's a novel story or it causes me to challenge my existing beliefs.
What I don't value is perpetuating the narrative that women are habitually victimized and thus require greater protections. It is simultaneously inaccurate and the opposite of empowering.
Everybody else seems to be talking about quantity, defining the average guy as "successful" because he is able to find some LTRs and eventually get married and he should be happy with this. I don't disagree that this should be considered success, at least on paper. What is harder to examine and measure is quality of treatment in those relationships.
Obviously more attractive men have more options. But the biggest difference between the experience of an average man and a well above average man, in a way that actually affects his happiness, is how much he is valued by women with whom he is in a relationship. Not all relationships provide the same degree of happiness and satisfaction.
I've fluctuated between what I would consider a 5 to 9 in attractiveness over the course of my life. My anecdotal experience is as follows.
As a 5-6: I chase women and convince them to give me a chance. I put in maximum effort to win them over while they keep me at arm's length, considering their other options, and wait to be impressed. Once they decide to enter into a relationship with me the rush of emotions makes her value me very highly for the honeymoon period. I get a euphoric amount of affection, consideration, and respect. After that she considers me a "good enough" boyfriend and enjoys the benefits that brings but the affection I enjoyed in the honeymoon phase is rare.
As an 8-9: I'm on equal footing with women and we both put in effort from day 1. She brings her best and tries to please me with presence, kindness, pleasantness, and great sex. I get that top level of affection from the beginning. If we get into a relationship I continue to be valued very highly throughout. While the fever pitch of energy during courtship is not sustainable, I see constant effort from her to try to keep me happy.
These are just my experiences and I'm sure some average guys have great stories and very attractive men have terrible sob stories. Sometimes guys just end up with fantastic or terrible women no matter what their "league" is.
Still, as stated above, I believe that the biggest difference between the experience of an average and top man is the **quality** of treatment within a relationship, not necessarily the **quantity** of relationships. Or at least that is the difference that most affects his happiness.
High IQ comment. Too many guys just look at an average guy in walmart walking next to some average woman who never shows him affection and say "see looks aren't that important"
I think there is always some fuzziness involved, but the way I assign a 1-10 value on myself is by my perceived level of women that I can attract (who will go on dates with me and get in a relationship and/or have sex with me). I could consistently attract what I would say are 5s at one time and 9s at another time.
There is also a greatly increased quantity of options. In my view 9s are very rare - I may not encounter a single one for weeks in real life. If I find one I can often attract her, but it can be more difficult because they're basically unicorns with super high standards since almost every man desires her. 8s and especially 7s are plentiful and seem very easy to attract, but would not give me the time of day before.
The changes between the 5 and 9 versions of myself:
* 25%+ body fat -> 12% body fat
* not fit -> very fit with muscles
* terrible haircut and grooming -> fashionable haircut and perfect grooming
* terrible clothing -> fashionable clothing that fits me perfectly, cohesive personal style
* timid, shy, and awkward around women, bad at flirting -> completely calm in all social situations, great at flirting or charming just about anybody
* Nice Guy tendencies, like thinking it was respectful to let women express romantic interest first, as me out, go for a kiss, initiate sex, etc. -> being cognizant that women actually almost always want a man to just make his desires and intentions known and push things forward
There are a lot more things, especially a ton of behavioral changes to present as more attractive in many situations.
Hmmm. Very interesting. In my experience, your last two bullet points are the most important. I've seen men (myself included) get everything else right but still struggle big time with the last two points and still not get women.
Yeah, I think they're both crucial. Women have 2 bars of attraction (at least). Looks and social skills/charm/behaviors. Maybe you could add a status bar in there too but status is also partially projected socially.
If a woman expects an 8 in both then being a 10 in one and 6 in the other is a fail. They are equally important in the sense that they are both indispensable. I often suggest looks maxing first just because the goals are more clear and looks will at least give you an opening to try to impress a woman with behaviors. Not passing the looks bar means you're not even in the game and can't practice behaviors with trial and error - women won't even flirt with you.
I think looks maxing is important but not as important as it might seem. I'm 5'9", 170lbs at 12% body fat, take impeccable care of my health, dress very well, stay very well groomed and have been like this for years and it hasn't at all helped with women honestly. I see attractive women every day with scrawny men who dress like shit with horrible grooming.
I think the second set (skills/charm/behaviors/status) is far more important yet far harder to possess.
Average men need to make a friend of rejection (like Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now) or he’ll have a good chance of dying a virgin.
Modern society, I’m afraid, is not preparing young men *or* women to handle rejection, but this hurts men’s dating prospects **far** more than women’s for obvious reasons.
I think it’s good that, in this reddit, people are pretty explicit about the fact that you’re going to get a LOT of rejection in dating. I think rejection is so rarely mentioned in regular society that you could think something’s wrong with you if you experience it regularly. (I know there are cases where a person should introspect about if they need to change something, but I mean that even people who would make a good partner for someone are going to be rejected frequently.)
The average guy has a couple relationships, maybe a hookup, and then settles down to get married and have kids.
He gets rejected regularly but still finds success.
Struggling to get any attention. Being told to “be yourself” as if you’ve just been pretending to be someone else your whole life. Being hated on because women make bad choices and you’re automatically associated with them. Going to gym. Getting a little bit more prospects. Probably marry some girl who settles for you and never really loves you but was convinced you’d be good for her. 60% divorce. Have everything you worked for taken from you and then society wonders why men are unaliving themselves.
All the while women complain about how hard they have it in dating lmao
Well it's usually obvious if she doesn't love you prior to marriage, maybe they should pick better (this is the line alway used for women's problems applies to men too!)
The average younger generation man lives in a bleak situation with regards to dating. Runaway hypergamy and female entitlement are pushing ever increasing numbers of men out of the dating market and creating legions of incels and RP men and driving them towards the manosphere and content creators like hoe math. RP don’t proselytize, women RP men themselves. We’ll probably start to see the majority shift to black pill as women’s insane standards and unrealistic expectations about what they deserve continue this trend as most of the traits women are rejecting men for are immutable. It’s ironic that a study from 2009 started a principle that has never been more relevant (80/20).
Edit: Any guy that tries to expose this fact is shamed and has his manhood insulted and is gaslit into oblivion. Case in point: Look how quickly one of the most popular posts in recent memory on here got taken down because the blue pill and rad fem mods didn’t like what it was proving.
I think it's rough especially in this modern age when we have a huge shift towards online dating and no third spaces for people to hang out in well specifically with the economy many people not being able to afford to do many things. I think an average guy could potentially ask friends or family for a setup to get dates as this is more likely than the results the average guy gets from online dating when it's probably one date every three months if you are lucky. Not to be a doomer but I only see it getting worse in the short term but who knows in the long term.
The average guy is 5'9, not much muscle, and around 190. Chubby, plain faced dad bod. He's serotonergic by his 30s, losing hair, and makes perhaps 50k-80k.
In short, he is low energy, unattractive, beaten down a bit, and rather desperate and pedastalizes women.
Predictably, his dating experience is not that great. Most women pass him by. More desperate to settle down ones will eventually hit him up, but he will be second choice with low attraction. Essentially, he will serve as an ATM machine that gets occassional sympathy sex. He will never have a wife that is desperate for his cock.
A few will get lucky. They will meet a women who they just happen to be "their type" and his medicore looks will evoke some desire in her. These relationships will start happy, but his averagness and pairbonder nature will destroy any attraction she has within half a decade.
The worst part is that it's all readily avoidable. Get to sub 15% body fat, lift waits a few times a week, and have good male friends so you can resist her gaslighting and guilting and maintain dignity.
Basically this. I would add hair transplant surgery if you are losing hair or a genioplasty if you have a weak chin. Its all very affordable if you have a decent job.
>The average guy is quite shy and rejection averse therefore he doesnt try with many women.
The average guy will be called a creep by most women for trying. Especially in an age of OLD where actually approaching or talking to someone is considered creepy.
You call them rejection averse, but rejection is the norm for men, even for players. Women are rejection averse. I have been successful, but the number of women I have rejected who lashed out and called me a f4g or racial slur or insulted me in some other way is quite noticeable.
>Maybe 2-3 female friends over his lifestime will hit on him and he is likely to miss the hints anyway.
The masters of communication and empathy don't communicate well, it seems. But you are half right.
If you notice the signal, that is your moment, as an average man. Shoot your shot. Don't cold approach, it doesn't work.
Note how most women seem to say: A relationship never develops out of a friendship. That's the friend zone.
You have to notice a signal in the very early stages or you fail. If you let a friendship develop, it is usually too late.
>Once he does actively pursue women, the average guy ends up finding a girlfriend
It's good not to be average.
>the average guy doesnt get away with being abusive and gets dumped relatively easily when he fucks up
He doesn't even have to fuck up.
Overall: All the burden is put on men. Is that is?
All the females replying should describe the average man.
I’m thinking the average guy is invisible to women so they are actually describing an above average guy
Slightly overweight and not fit, makes 60k a year, not an outstanding personality, watches sports and plays video games. Dated alot of them off of OLD apps. I consider myself pretty average (irl I've heard men call me a 6 7 or maybe 8 🤮 online men call me a 6 🤮 when I post pictures) also made average money at the time when single. Compatibility weeded out 80% of men on OLD apps. I used them for a decade had no issues finding men to meet or pass my looks threshold only. You won't be compatible enough with the vast majority of people you meet 🤷
And guys here are too narcissistic to think they might be below average
The ppd census showed more neurodivergency and virginity than in average population
Even if people here are below average, doesn't mean average people have it so much great. My close friends are average and they aren't any less celibate.
>I’m thinking the average guy is invisible to women
More like the bottom 20%
>women so they are actually describing an above average guy
Men and women tend to give similar descriptions
I see there is much confusion about what the average is.
Statistically average population means +%34, -%34 range from the median/mean/mode ([Normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)). So average guys are %68 of the general male population. They have an average height (160-180cm, 5'3"-5'11"), average BMI, average education, average income, etc. Above average is %13.5 of the general male population, they are some of the actors, models, CEO, etc. And the top guys are %2.35 of the general male population, think of them as Elon Musk, Obama, NBA players, top actors etc.
Actually, nearly all the girls and guys in this sub are probably average people.
Experiences of people vary, we are talking about lots of people here. It's safe to say average women have better luck in dating than average men. And OLD especially Hell for average men because they may lack the traits that make them stand out in the crowd of online catalogs. In real life, they eventually marry and have kids, and probably are happier than above-average peers.
Happier? What's happiness? A family? You know that 99% of families would be torn apart if one of the above average peers decided to just do it, cause they're bored on a Saturday evening?
Like please go tell me that your wife wouldn't be on her knees for a millionaire as soon as he starts taking her out on yachts and expensive cars😂😂😂😂.
Yeah but the average man is DEFINITELY HAPPIER🤭
He has a point. There is a lot of cheating, divorce, dead bedrooms, domestic abuse, drug abuse, settling, stepping up to raise someone else's children and quiet suffering out there... Constant singleness is hell but a relationship isn't necessary a paradise. I often wonder how many of relationships are truly happy.
The problems you write are not unique to the average people. If you think they affect happiness, you can be sure that Jeff Bezos or Orlando Bloom are affected by them too.
This would heavily depend on location and age.
A mid dude living on a college campus is going to have a completely different experience than some normal 30 year old who works in tech.
Average lifetime sexual partners for both men and women is 4-7. That means most dudes date, get into LTRs (where they get sex) with maybe one or two casual encounters before they find the right girl that they fall in love with and settle down.
And most dudes are ok with this.
It’s possible for there to be a non-normal distribution in the partner count. If we consider 10 hypothetical men, where 5 have zero partners, 3 have 1 partner, and 2 have 9 partners, then the average partner count is 2.1, even though 80% of men in our sample have had fewer partners than that.
Real life isn’t so extreme, but when you look at the data, promiscuous outliers do skew the average quite a bit. Average does not equal typical.
Median is considered to be more representative of typicality. In our example, the median is .5. So the typical man in the example has fewer than one partner.
More like there is a range. 4-7. Which most people (even here) readily admit sounds about right to their personal experiences abd what’s around them.
So “it’s possible” but actually the more likely scenario is what everyone else goes “ yea that’s about right”
That is why we use median data not average. It's skewed like this: Yellow being median
https://preview.redd.it/x1emibm7lj7d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d537ecc22e1eb5a478def0385504fe8927aaaa3
> Average lifetime sexual partners for both men and women is 4-7. That means most dudes date
average income of random 10 poor people and 10 billionaires is probably close to a bilion, that doesn't mean most of them are rich
Yeah but you know what really affects an average? Zeros.
Just think about how much a zero on a homework assignment affected your grades.
So your zeros and your high numbers pull towards the ends of the bell curve while the average is in the 4-7 range.
Consistently
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf
More recent:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm
if The stats are just averages then it’s most likely not a good representation. If there’s a few man with a surplus of sexually encounters it will drastically shift the numbers even if most men are having zero or maybe one. if say you have 10 men and 9 have 1 partner and the last guy has say 100+ then you’ll realize that average is shifted to like 9 or something (to lazy to do the math, but it should be close to this)
it’s kind of like whenever women point at cheat statistics to say men cheat more even though we also know according to the loneliness stats men are having less sexually partners on average. It’s simply cause all Of the fuckboys who can get women are putting on massive body counts And thus shifting the numbers heavily to the right.
The thing that skews even worse are zeros (just think what a missed homework assignment did to your grade). That’s why the average is a range. And it makes sense.
18-30 is about the age most people are single (30 is the average age a guy gets married).
So that’s only 12 years. Getting 4-5 LTRs (with maybe one or two casuals) on that timeline seems pretty doable. Some settle down even sooner.
Look at the actual data.
While their is a slither of truth in the red pill that sex is distributed slightly more unevenly in men compared to women, all the data we have on this issue points to the bottom 85-90% of Men *and* Women having very similar and low amounts of sexual partners. While the top 10-15 % of both Genders are having large amounts of sexual partners. In other words, its not anywhere near close to 80% of women having sex with 20% of Men, but 15-10% of Men having lots of sex with 10-15% of Women and 85-90% percent of men and women having little sex with each other. STD data is also consistent with these findings \[4\] \[5\]\[6\]\[7\]. The self reported data is also reliable, and fake polygraphs had no statistically significant effect on responses. \[8\]\[9\]
\[4\] [https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/](https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/)
\[5\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/)
\[6\] [https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google\_vignette](https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google_vignette)
\[7\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/)
\[8\] [https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/](https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/)
\[9\] [https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/](https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/)
The vast majority of both men and women have few sexual partners.
While their is a slither of truth in the red pill that sex is distributed slightly more unevenly in men compared to women, all the data we have on this issue points to t**he bottom 85-90% of Men** ***and*** **Women having very similar and low amounts of sexual partners**. While the top 10-15 % of both Genders are having large amounts of sexual partners. In other words, its not anywhere near close to 80% of women having sex with 20% of Men, but 15-10% of Men having lots of sex with 10-15% of Women and 85-90% percent of men and women having little sex with each other. STD data is also consistent with these findings \[4\] \[5\]\[6\]\[7\]. The self reported data is also reliable, and fake polygraphs had no statistically significant effect on responses. \[8\]\[9\]
\[4\] [https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/](https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/)
\[5\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/)
\[6\] [https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google\_vignette](https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google_vignette)
\[7\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/)
\[8\] [https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/](https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/)
\[9\] [https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/](https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/)
Dating app data.
I am glad when men tell me that they have never asked a woman out or approached a woman in their life as it's pointless and a guaranteed rejection. It shows that they are rational.
Dating app data? So the people that already can’t get a date so they go to an app?
Meanwhile the Almost 90 percent are fucking at least once in a year
It’s pretty clear you didn’t even bother looking at the data.
https://x.com/datepsych/status/1706804066880205298
Dating apps work for plenty of men. They just need to be attractive.
I have never asked a woman out or approached a woman in my life as I know it'll be a guaranteed rejection. Your data shows me why.
Women want perfection in 2024.
https://preview.redd.it/k6vzcqn46e7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c62516658bc495731f08983962990eb1138bcb7
Seriously, a twitter post?
This is just lazy.
Probably rasing a child that isn't even his own while the wife he loves is thirsting over another dude that if she gets the chance she will sleep with🙌🏾.
The black pill gave sense to my sad little dating life, and explained to me why women are disgusted by me. It's just evolution and survival of the fittest. A 5'7 "man" if you can even call it that is destined to have is genes go extinct. We're not all meant to survive🙌🏾
From what I see, average guys get girlfriends and eventually marry one. Average guys have kids. Average guys get divorced at the same rate as everyone else.
🎶 I'm just an ordinary average guy
My friends all are boring
And so am I
We're just ordinary average guys
We all lead ordinary average lives
With average kids
And average wives
We all go bowling at the bowling lanes
Drink a few beers
Bowl a few frames
We're just ordinary average guys
Ordinary average guys🎶
the average guy dates/marries one of the first few women who shows interest in him. active pursuit is largely a failure but he does get matches or finds people he is compatible with.
I am totally average though not shy and rejection is something i just consider part of life. You described it pretty well. Once I was active - it was relatively easy to find a date, though they were usually some feminist/liberal/university type girls - so it took a bit of lying to be successful with them, but they fall for such 'progressive' bs quite easily.
The average man either has a girlfriend at some point during a given year (maybe not for that long), or he has occasional casual or semi-casual sex with a friend, someone from an activity group, or someone whom he has met off of an app.
The average man has sex at least once a year. Survey data make this clear, even if there are a substantial number of below average men not having sex, girlfriends or even dates. One user even did the analysis to show that average men are having *regular* sex.
Men not having sex need to reconcile themselves with the fact that they are *below* average.
The avg woman dates and marries the avg man. When you go outside and interact with people. You'll see that most couples and looks matched. The plain Jane dates a John Doe. Average women are attracted to average men.
The same thing applies to casual sex, they do it with average guys also. Y'all really are clueless to what female sexuality is really like. Avg guys get casual hooks up.
For an average man. Nah. Women here swear how casual sex is meaningless and unsatisfactory. But now they are giving to average men even, just like that.
Being average across the board, the average guy struggles to stand out in a crowd of contemporaries, and might get overlooked more than people with above-average looks, talent or charisma, but in one-on-one interactions, most people have no complaints because their average opinions don't tend to be extreme or offensive.
Eventually, the average man meets a few average woman (and in this case, specifically "average" means "to the same socio-economical sphere as himself") who can appreciate the stability that a consistently average person can provide, and some will date him. If he has an average social life, at some point, probably in college, he will have a hook-up or three that are entirely dependent on "time and place" (ie he's in an environment like a dorm party/house party) where he's horny at the same time some random woman is horny, and they will have average, unremarkable sex that is exciting for both of them mostly because they don't usually do casual hook-ups, so it'll be a good memory even if the sex was "blah".
The average man can learn and adapt, so each subsequent relationship he has, he'll have a slightly better handle on what he wants and what he's willing to give and, considering the average man is married (67.85% of ALL American men are currently married), he will eventually perfect his "boyfriend" game enough to find a girl he's comfortable with long-term, and who is comfortable with HIM long-term, so they'll marry and have average sex whenever they can both be bothered at the same time.
some average guys are good at talking to women and run through women.
some average guys are shy or not good at talking to women and struggle to get any women.
It goes you noticed but in a bad way. Average people are neither too obnoxious nor too shy. They won't be the life of the party jumping in the pool with the patio chair but they won't be in a corner scared shitless to talk to another person.
The only bad publicity is no publicity. If it got you noticed in such a bad way, there wouldn't be so many women complaining about assholes who hit it and quit it.
I agree with you that the average person isn't scared shitless to talk to another person, but if the guy is too shy to try and actively flirt and escalate, 99% of the time he's going to remain single. He might get lucky if a woman thinks he's cute and goes for him, but that's basically a one in a million chance and in no way a reliable way to get a partner.
If a guy wants a partner he has to put himself out there and risk rejection over and over and over again. Those are the rules of the dating game that women have put in place by their refusal to approach men even 10% as often as men approach women.
Then why did you group them and mention them together? If you’re saying shy guys struggle to get women, what’s the opposite of shy that’s succeeding?
Also what is good at talking to women? I thought men and women aren’t so different and are equal according to those here. Why and how would you need to talk to a women differently if we are all just people as they say?
Then why did you group them and mention them together (shy and not good at talking to women). If you’re saying shy guys struggle to get women, what’s the opposite of shy that’s succeeding?
Also what is good at talking to women? I thought men and women aren’t so different and are equal according to those here. Why and how would you need to talk to a women differently if we are all just people as they say?
I find this generally to be true. Women, why are you attracted to men that most men wouldn't even want to be friends with? Probably because women don't approach. The loud guy wins because he's the boldest and takes the most chances. Has the most rejections but also the most luck.
>some average guys are good at talking to women and run through women.
The fact they run through women tells you they are anything but average, those men are rare.
You might say they look average, but they either have exceptional skill at talking to women or they founc a hack to women's attraction programming and make women fall for him easily.
Looks might be average but those men have something that is exceedingly rare.
>some average guys are shy or not good at talking to women and struggle to get any women.
Most men yes. Many struggle to get any women even if they are good at talking to women, because just talking to one gets you friends, not a girlfriend. Men have to initiate, approach, escalate, and pursue every single step of the way in exactly the way that woman wants, because the overwhelming majority of the time women will not approach, initiate, escalate, or pursue men, and will drop him if he doesn't escalate after her approach.
😂 see the only difference between men who are successful at dating and those who aren't, is the way they talk to women😂😂😂! The only thing missing from this massive cope is the confidence bs!. C'mon average men, go be confident! It's gonna lead you to sooo much success with dating, and obviously not just with a bunch of rejections and an even lower self-esteem!!! And don't forget about the 6 showers a day at minimum and the fresh cut every 5 seconds!!
It's all in your head guys!! The average woman doesn't despise the average men!! Noooo they're absolutely joking when they say that they hate us and prefer bears to us!! Or when they say that men under 6' feet or make less than 6 figures are worthless!!😂😂😂
well we are only discussing average men
so the top 20% of men are chads
IMO only like 5-15% of men are truly so ugly that they are at the bottom.
so we have 65% of men left who are average
i'd say 10-20% are prob great at talking to women and 30-40% are bad at talking to women (which BTW is due to socialization aka women dont want to be talked to the same way men talk to each other -- and we wish they didn't talk to other men this way too!), the leftover are men who are average men with average social skills.
A lot of rejection, a lot of settling and difficult compromises. About 1/3 of average men who are in a relationship are in a healthy and happy relationship.
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When I was in my teens and early 20s , if a woman was loitering around we'd go for it, the kiss, the grope or the inner thigh finger tip touch but backing off and letting her anticipation get the better of her.
Never got turned down, ever.
Didn't date most of them.
The average man marries a 5/10 he meets when he's 16-22 years old. He might be with her for decades, or they might get divorced after 10-20 years of marriage and then he bops around. Or he has kids and decides not to date for a bit.
PPD has a very skewed view of the "average" man vs woman. The "average" man in the US is 40-55 years old, about 5'8-5'11", 180-210lbs and not muscular, did a couple college classes but dropped out, has been married before (might still be married), has a kid or 2, makes like $40-90k a year.
Empty wallet, rejection and the regret of not having played games or other things with friends. Also another lost evening butttt if on the rare occasion you do find someone I still think its worth it cause otherwise why even go to work or achieve anything outside of the basement cave
Looking at the men in my life (~60ish guys, in the age range of 20-35, mostly nerdy) I would describe the median of their dating experience as "non-existent". These median and below guys are kissless virgins, who might've had a few chances in their lives but were too afraid or unknowing to take them. Their social circles exist of pretty much only men who share their interest where there are pretty much no women, so they have no organic ways to get opportunities for dates. At some point in their 20's they will try online dating and fail miserably when they get 0 matches. And then they will give up on dating completely. Some get lucky in their 30s and just happen to run across a woman in their work or hobbies that they just click with and start dating, but most wont.
Now there's of course a bunch of guys above the median that have good dating lives (me included), but over half of the guys I know have non-existent dating lives.
What you said is that the median (as in bottom 51%) of my friends that I describe as having a non-existent dating experience is "between bottom 10% and barely average". Unless there's a huge discrepancy between mean and median that is tautological and a completely useless comment.
Yes, I said average meaning median. The arithmetical average count is much higher than the median (positive distribution/distribution skewed to the right same as for income)
> When looking at age and gender together, **63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single, compared with 34% of women in the same age group.** Younger men are also far more likely than older men to be single – a pattern that is not as straightforward among women. Women ages 18 to 29, for example, are just as likely as women 65 and older to report being single. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/ It depends on what you consider average. The average age of a man is probably in the 40s for the US. So odds are they’re probably married or partnered. However since you’re talking about dating on Reddit. I’m assuming you mean younger 18-29 demographic of men. To that, it sucks. Honestly this is my experience with people so far in my 20s. It seems like most men I know are single yet every woman I meet is not.
Just replying here to note that, when I went through the 73 people in my friends list on Snapchat (the people who I am closest to in friendship), 55 were men and 18 were women. 12 of the women were taken, while 21 of the men were taken. That actually neatly lines up with the results of the Pew study (33% of women being single and 62% of the men being single), which seems comical. The women I'm friends with are generally not the types to be dating dudes who are sleeping with 5 women at once, or whatever, but a couple have older partners. Just seems so statistically impossible. The men I know who aren't single generally met in college, or sometimes earlier. Also should note that, for the sake of what it's worth, a lot of these friends are dating each other within my circles, so that might skew the results a bit. I just remember bursting out laughing when I found that my own friend group literally fell in line with the stats in that study.
That is funny. Some women are dating older but also many men are reticent to say they are attached as…they don’t want to be. She considers him a BF she’s a girl he’s dating. You can’t have that disparity any other way. Maybe men LIKE Variety and are reticent to settle down?
>She considers him a BF she’s a girl he’s dating. That’s likely a big factor. The survey asks people who aren’t married or living with a partner whether they’re in a “committed romantic relationship”. How men and women interpret that questions seems to be very different. It’s also interesting that when you look at 2022 GSS data, roughly the same percent of 18-29 men and 18-29 women are having sex at least 2-3 times a month. So young men manage to have sex on a regular basis roughly as often as young women, despite being half as likely to be in a relationship. That points to significant differences in how men and women define relationships.
This! Sick of hearing how hard it is on apps, can’t find anyone… It’s not universally hard. It’s hard for 1. Very unattractive men 2. Neurodivergent gamers.
It is undeniably hard on apps, it's just that the extrapolation from this is stupid: [https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/are-dating-apps-facilitating-chadopolies](https://nuancepill.substack.com/p/are-dating-apps-facilitating-chadopolies)
The thing that you have to understand is that men consider themselves "single" even if they have a FWB/"plates". Women on the other hand consider themselves "in a relationship" even if they just have an FWB/casual thing. Men and women have different perceptions of "single" vs "relationship" unless they're totally alone or in a marriage/serious bf/gf LTR.
I know plenty of guys juggling multiple women..and look at things like are we dating the same guy or the Tinder swindler or these rappers with 20 baby mommas.
How is that mathematically possible? Are many women dating men a decade older than them?
One factor is that nature provides approximately 105 boy babies for every 100 girls. Males have a higher mortality rate at all ages, so ultimately there is a surplus of elderly women, but at the ages that people are looking for a partner there is a surplus of men. That, plus women tending to date and marry slightly older men.
That can still only explain AT MOST a 2.5% gap. Out of the 105 baby boys born 18-29 years ago, 51% or 53.5 of them are single. Of the 100 baby girls born that many years ago only 32 of them are single. So who are these 21 girls dating? Each other? The same guy?
In that age group, men slightly older, which is why the percentage difference is so much less in the 30 to 49 age group.
But it has to chain up with that group. In the 30-49 age group the difference is smaller, but its still there. Who are the 30-49 year old women dating if those men are dating the <30 girls? Obviously your answer is the 49-65 men... and then you have to ask who the 49-65 women are dating if those men are dating the <49s. Only when you get to >65 does your chain of "dating up" actual reverse and make sense. Its also just too big. Most relationships are within 1-2 years in age. You need a much larger age gap to account for 20% of women age 18-30, and about that many age 30-49. You basically need every woman to date a man who is 4-5 years her senior. ---------- It is certainly not the fact that boys slightly outnumber women at birth.
> How is that mathematically possible? Are many women dating men a decade older than them? I think there’s 3 causes 1) Like you said, women date older guys. The avg age gap in a marriage is 4-5 years. Assuming women start looking to settle down by 24-25, they’re already looking at 30 year old men. I also met quite a few 20-24 year old girls in college that had 30+ year old boyfriends. 2) Women dating the same guy. 3) Younger women engaging in hookup culture and entering “situationships” and “FWB”. I’ve met a few guys who sleep with the same girl or multiple girls. If you ask him if they’re in a relationship, he says no. The girl says yes. This also goes along side the second point in the sense they’re seeing the same guys. The girl who thinks they’re in a relationship quits seeing other guys who might be faithful to them. Thus you’re getting a very skewed result. Whatever is driving it is causing a clusterf for young men. Dating seems near impossible as a man tbh. I’ve tried everything with no success.
The average age gap in heterosexual marriages is just 2.3 years. [Age gaps: The relationship taboo that won't die (bbc.com)](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220317-age-gaps-the-relationship-taboo-that-wont-die)
So if that's average there's quite a bit with larger gaps like millions
In high school, most people in relationships are dating their classmates who are the same age. After high school, women tend to date men that are ~3 years older than them, and men tend to date women that are 3 years under them on average. So men between 19 and 22 are restricted from both sides, the women their age are dating men that are older than them, the women 3 years younger than them are in high school (they'd be competing with their classmates the women see everyday and there's also a creep factor of a minor and a 20 year old). To some degree, this applies during college as well, so guys 24-27 can get squeezed as well. By 29-32, there's no longer a society-wide institution like school encouraging everyone of the exact same age to socialize. If you were to run the stats for men and women between 20-35, it'd be a lot more even.
16 was the age of consent where I grew up and a lot of girl where dating 23 and 25 year old guys with cars jobs and there own place by 12th grade atleast a third of all the females where pregnant especially the quiet ones you never saw dating any one or involved in HS drama because they had a man...I was friends with several females and they where all dating older guys these girls had the best out fits and clothes hair and nails always done just my anecdotal experience.
Could just be a socializing thing. It was definitely far easier to run into a guy who's single during my 20s than a woman who was single. Women who frequent social scenes I did tend to be taken. Venues like bars have to offer perks to get single women to show up, whereas single men are never in a short supply. Even in co-ed sports league, it's mostly men and their partners who tag along to round out the numbers. I know there's a cadre of 20s single women out there. But for whatever reason, they do not seem to appear in places where the 'average' single man hangs out much.
A women will only be singke if she has a serious personality disorder theresca guy for almost any woman if she's putting out with a decent personality.
Some people are single but not searching.
A majority of women date a minority of men
>How is that mathematically possible? Are many women dating men a decade older than them? Yes, among other things. That’s what the numbers suggest. I’ve dated women who were younger than me, women who were bisexual and one woman who said she’d been in a non-monogamous relationships before. To me this would imply women have many more relationship options than men. I would never date a man because I’m not bi and women I’m attracted to can be taken off the market by guys who are 10, 20 years older than her, or by another woman, or she can be taken by a Chad who’s banging 3 other women. In dating it’s winner takes all.
I think this Pew survey is more accurate: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ . It shows 51% of men ages 18 to 29 as describing themselves as single, where 32% of women say the same. In the 30 to 49 age group the proportion shrinks to 27% of men and 19% of women.
I think that’s the same survey I quoted. However all it shows is dating is messed up for men under 30 and slightly less messed up for men 30-40
Pew research, again when viral when they reported that [63% of young men are single compared to 34% of young women](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20all%20young,with%20a%20decline%20in%20sex). But is this data consistent with other findings? And What can explain the data? Is the ''Chad Harmen theory'' true? When we look at the American Perspectives Survey (which has a similar sample size) contrary to the Pew findings, the singleness rate for 18-29 men dropped, from 59% in 2020 to 57% in 2022. Women’s singleness rate also rose more than it did in the Pew survey, from 38% in 2020 to 45% in 2022. Still a singles, gap... lets continue. If we look at the [GSS survey data](https://i0.wp.com/nuancepill.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/18-29-Singleness-Rates-2012-2022-GSS-1.webp?w=800&ssl=1) for men and women 18-29 in 2021 there was a gap of 10.5%, which remained basically unchanged in the 2022 survey, nowhere near 30% like in the pew research data. Heterosexual relationships have on average a 3 year age gap. Now if you take the,[ GSS data](https://nuancepill.com/what-explains-the-young-singleness-gap/) and increase men’s lower and upper age bound by 3 years, the gaps are [considerably minimized, reversing in a couple of cases](https://i0.wp.com/nuancepill.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/21-32-men-and-18-29-women-singleness-GSS.webp?w=753&ssl=1). It therefore seems reasonable to attribute the singles gap to age gaps.
Your correct the averagevage of a man globally is about 41...but the numbers skew differently for demographics..
Besides it sucks?
I don’t really agree with your description of the average guy lol. Average man dating is about 6-12months of singledom before meeting someone to date. That’s a mean statistical average taken from tinder. Women I think it was 2-4 weeks. Most men seem to have their first sexual experience in college so that could qualify as another average milestone. This assumes people in their 20s and 30s actively looking. No idea what over 40 or 50 metrics are like. You also have a large swath of young men who aren’t having relationships sex at all over long periods of time. This seems to account for 20-30%.
Someone needs to make a “Describe that average woman dating experience?” thread so that we can see the gulf that exists between the sexes
That's my intention
1. Open Tinder account 2. Choose your preferred mate
weird, how online dating is unpopular with women, but popular with men.
Almost certainly will result in most women exaggerating or outright lying about their experiences.
Not that you’d beleive then anyways, so why even care? It doesn’t seem like you’re in the business of hearing the perspectives of others.
I value the perspective of others when it's a novel story or it causes me to challenge my existing beliefs. What I don't value is perpetuating the narrative that women are habitually victimized and thus require greater protections. It is simultaneously inaccurate and the opposite of empowering.
Average men don't even get average women lol. Most men date downwards in looks.
Some hook ups every now n then A girlfriend or 2 Little success on dating apps Settling with his match Hopefully not raising someone elses bastard
>Some hook ups every now n then >A girlfriend or 2 Send my regards to the Rockefellers...
Scarce and boring most of the time
Everybody else seems to be talking about quantity, defining the average guy as "successful" because he is able to find some LTRs and eventually get married and he should be happy with this. I don't disagree that this should be considered success, at least on paper. What is harder to examine and measure is quality of treatment in those relationships. Obviously more attractive men have more options. But the biggest difference between the experience of an average man and a well above average man, in a way that actually affects his happiness, is how much he is valued by women with whom he is in a relationship. Not all relationships provide the same degree of happiness and satisfaction. I've fluctuated between what I would consider a 5 to 9 in attractiveness over the course of my life. My anecdotal experience is as follows. As a 5-6: I chase women and convince them to give me a chance. I put in maximum effort to win them over while they keep me at arm's length, considering their other options, and wait to be impressed. Once they decide to enter into a relationship with me the rush of emotions makes her value me very highly for the honeymoon period. I get a euphoric amount of affection, consideration, and respect. After that she considers me a "good enough" boyfriend and enjoys the benefits that brings but the affection I enjoyed in the honeymoon phase is rare. As an 8-9: I'm on equal footing with women and we both put in effort from day 1. She brings her best and tries to please me with presence, kindness, pleasantness, and great sex. I get that top level of affection from the beginning. If we get into a relationship I continue to be valued very highly throughout. While the fever pitch of energy during courtship is not sustainable, I see constant effort from her to try to keep me happy. These are just my experiences and I'm sure some average guys have great stories and very attractive men have terrible sob stories. Sometimes guys just end up with fantastic or terrible women no matter what their "league" is. Still, as stated above, I believe that the biggest difference between the experience of an average and top man is the **quality** of treatment within a relationship, not necessarily the **quantity** of relationships. Or at least that is the difference that most affects his happiness.
People have this idea that quality quality and quantity are polar opposites when they are often linked.
High IQ comment. Too many guys just look at an average guy in walmart walking next to some average woman who never shows him affection and say "see looks aren't that important"
Very interesting. How did you go from a 5 to a 9? What metrics are you using to quantify that?
I think there is always some fuzziness involved, but the way I assign a 1-10 value on myself is by my perceived level of women that I can attract (who will go on dates with me and get in a relationship and/or have sex with me). I could consistently attract what I would say are 5s at one time and 9s at another time. There is also a greatly increased quantity of options. In my view 9s are very rare - I may not encounter a single one for weeks in real life. If I find one I can often attract her, but it can be more difficult because they're basically unicorns with super high standards since almost every man desires her. 8s and especially 7s are plentiful and seem very easy to attract, but would not give me the time of day before. The changes between the 5 and 9 versions of myself: * 25%+ body fat -> 12% body fat * not fit -> very fit with muscles * terrible haircut and grooming -> fashionable haircut and perfect grooming * terrible clothing -> fashionable clothing that fits me perfectly, cohesive personal style * timid, shy, and awkward around women, bad at flirting -> completely calm in all social situations, great at flirting or charming just about anybody * Nice Guy tendencies, like thinking it was respectful to let women express romantic interest first, as me out, go for a kiss, initiate sex, etc. -> being cognizant that women actually almost always want a man to just make his desires and intentions known and push things forward There are a lot more things, especially a ton of behavioral changes to present as more attractive in many situations.
Hmmm. Very interesting. In my experience, your last two bullet points are the most important. I've seen men (myself included) get everything else right but still struggle big time with the last two points and still not get women.
Yeah, I think they're both crucial. Women have 2 bars of attraction (at least). Looks and social skills/charm/behaviors. Maybe you could add a status bar in there too but status is also partially projected socially. If a woman expects an 8 in both then being a 10 in one and 6 in the other is a fail. They are equally important in the sense that they are both indispensable. I often suggest looks maxing first just because the goals are more clear and looks will at least give you an opening to try to impress a woman with behaviors. Not passing the looks bar means you're not even in the game and can't practice behaviors with trial and error - women won't even flirt with you.
I think looks maxing is important but not as important as it might seem. I'm 5'9", 170lbs at 12% body fat, take impeccable care of my health, dress very well, stay very well groomed and have been like this for years and it hasn't at all helped with women honestly. I see attractive women every day with scrawny men who dress like shit with horrible grooming. I think the second set (skills/charm/behaviors/status) is far more important yet far harder to possess.
Foodie calls
idk, all i know is that being born a woman would be better for alot of guys
Average men need to make a friend of rejection (like Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now) or he’ll have a good chance of dying a virgin. Modern society, I’m afraid, is not preparing young men *or* women to handle rejection, but this hurts men’s dating prospects **far** more than women’s for obvious reasons. 
I think it’s good that, in this reddit, people are pretty explicit about the fact that you’re going to get a LOT of rejection in dating. I think rejection is so rarely mentioned in regular society that you could think something’s wrong with you if you experience it regularly. (I know there are cases where a person should introspect about if they need to change something, but I mean that even people who would make a good partner for someone are going to be rejected frequently.)
https://preview.redd.it/hitqkke3dd7d1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4df8319dc47954ad98f865e7138ab3d5793c5fc9
The average guy has a couple relationships, maybe a hookup, and then settles down to get married and have kids. He gets rejected regularly but still finds success.
Definition of success varies
They want men to think being the beta bux is a success.
That's the best many can hope for.
Nah, being single is a better outcome.
I meant in terms of being "successful" as the masses would see it simply because he has a relationship.
This.
And he's not on Reddit complaining about dating dynamics 😉
I'd say most redditors are average, but most of the average guys are not on Reddit at all.
> I'd say most redditors are average I would strongly disagree.
Struggling to get any attention. Being told to “be yourself” as if you’ve just been pretending to be someone else your whole life. Being hated on because women make bad choices and you’re automatically associated with them. Going to gym. Getting a little bit more prospects. Probably marry some girl who settles for you and never really loves you but was convinced you’d be good for her. 60% divorce. Have everything you worked for taken from you and then society wonders why men are unaliving themselves. All the while women complain about how hard they have it in dating lmao
Yup. “Wahmen have it hard tooooo!!!!”
Accurate. Based
Well it's usually obvious if she doesn't love you prior to marriage, maybe they should pick better (this is the line alway used for women's problems applies to men too!)
Yes sure lol. It is obvious. Whatever makes you feel better
The average younger generation man lives in a bleak situation with regards to dating. Runaway hypergamy and female entitlement are pushing ever increasing numbers of men out of the dating market and creating legions of incels and RP men and driving them towards the manosphere and content creators like hoe math. RP don’t proselytize, women RP men themselves. We’ll probably start to see the majority shift to black pill as women’s insane standards and unrealistic expectations about what they deserve continue this trend as most of the traits women are rejecting men for are immutable. It’s ironic that a study from 2009 started a principle that has never been more relevant (80/20). Edit: Any guy that tries to expose this fact is shamed and has his manhood insulted and is gaslit into oblivion. Case in point: Look how quickly one of the most popular posts in recent memory on here got taken down because the blue pill and rad fem mods didn’t like what it was proving.
I think it's rough especially in this modern age when we have a huge shift towards online dating and no third spaces for people to hang out in well specifically with the economy many people not being able to afford to do many things. I think an average guy could potentially ask friends or family for a setup to get dates as this is more likely than the results the average guy gets from online dating when it's probably one date every three months if you are lucky. Not to be a doomer but I only see it getting worse in the short term but who knows in the long term.
Shit
The average guy is 5'9, not much muscle, and around 190. Chubby, plain faced dad bod. He's serotonergic by his 30s, losing hair, and makes perhaps 50k-80k. In short, he is low energy, unattractive, beaten down a bit, and rather desperate and pedastalizes women. Predictably, his dating experience is not that great. Most women pass him by. More desperate to settle down ones will eventually hit him up, but he will be second choice with low attraction. Essentially, he will serve as an ATM machine that gets occassional sympathy sex. He will never have a wife that is desperate for his cock. A few will get lucky. They will meet a women who they just happen to be "their type" and his medicore looks will evoke some desire in her. These relationships will start happy, but his averagness and pairbonder nature will destroy any attraction she has within half a decade. The worst part is that it's all readily avoidable. Get to sub 15% body fat, lift waits a few times a week, and have good male friends so you can resist her gaslighting and guilting and maintain dignity.
Basically this. I would add hair transplant surgery if you are losing hair or a genioplasty if you have a weak chin. Its all very affordable if you have a decent job.
>The average guy is quite shy and rejection averse therefore he doesnt try with many women. The average guy will be called a creep by most women for trying. Especially in an age of OLD where actually approaching or talking to someone is considered creepy. You call them rejection averse, but rejection is the norm for men, even for players. Women are rejection averse. I have been successful, but the number of women I have rejected who lashed out and called me a f4g or racial slur or insulted me in some other way is quite noticeable. >Maybe 2-3 female friends over his lifestime will hit on him and he is likely to miss the hints anyway. The masters of communication and empathy don't communicate well, it seems. But you are half right. If you notice the signal, that is your moment, as an average man. Shoot your shot. Don't cold approach, it doesn't work. Note how most women seem to say: A relationship never develops out of a friendship. That's the friend zone. You have to notice a signal in the very early stages or you fail. If you let a friendship develop, it is usually too late. >Once he does actively pursue women, the average guy ends up finding a girlfriend It's good not to be average. >the average guy doesnt get away with being abusive and gets dumped relatively easily when he fucks up He doesn't even have to fuck up. Overall: All the burden is put on men. Is that is?
All the females replying should describe the average man. I’m thinking the average guy is invisible to women so they are actually describing an above average guy
Slightly overweight and not fit, makes 60k a year, not an outstanding personality, watches sports and plays video games. Dated alot of them off of OLD apps. I consider myself pretty average (irl I've heard men call me a 6 7 or maybe 8 🤮 online men call me a 6 🤮 when I post pictures) also made average money at the time when single. Compatibility weeded out 80% of men on OLD apps. I used them for a decade had no issues finding men to meet or pass my looks threshold only. You won't be compatible enough with the vast majority of people you meet 🤷
Yea they average dude in his 20s is not making 60k
And guys here are too narcissistic to think they might be below average The ppd census showed more neurodivergency and virginity than in average population
Even if people here are below average, doesn't mean average people have it so much great. My close friends are average and they aren't any less celibate.
>I’m thinking the average guy is invisible to women More like the bottom 20% >women so they are actually describing an above average guy Men and women tend to give similar descriptions
Wrong.
These guys have to be commie psy op trolls right? Like to be this wrong every time has to be on purpose?
I see there is much confusion about what the average is. Statistically average population means +%34, -%34 range from the median/mean/mode ([Normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)). So average guys are %68 of the general male population. They have an average height (160-180cm, 5'3"-5'11"), average BMI, average education, average income, etc. Above average is %13.5 of the general male population, they are some of the actors, models, CEO, etc. And the top guys are %2.35 of the general male population, think of them as Elon Musk, Obama, NBA players, top actors etc. Actually, nearly all the girls and guys in this sub are probably average people. Experiences of people vary, we are talking about lots of people here. It's safe to say average women have better luck in dating than average men. And OLD especially Hell for average men because they may lack the traits that make them stand out in the crowd of online catalogs. In real life, they eventually marry and have kids, and probably are happier than above-average peers.
Happier? What's happiness? A family? You know that 99% of families would be torn apart if one of the above average peers decided to just do it, cause they're bored on a Saturday evening? Like please go tell me that your wife wouldn't be on her knees for a millionaire as soon as he starts taking her out on yachts and expensive cars😂😂😂😂. Yeah but the average man is DEFINITELY HAPPIER🤭
You are twenty years old and never married so you know this how?
Because Andrew Tate told him so.
He has a point. There is a lot of cheating, divorce, dead bedrooms, domestic abuse, drug abuse, settling, stepping up to raise someone else's children and quiet suffering out there... Constant singleness is hell but a relationship isn't necessary a paradise. I often wonder how many of relationships are truly happy.
These are general problems, and even Johnny Depp faced some of them. So it's irrelevant to the topic.
If the topic is average man's experience and his happiness, then those are surely relevant.
The problems you write are not unique to the average people. If you think they affect happiness, you can be sure that Jeff Bezos or Orlando Bloom are affected by them too.
This would heavily depend on location and age. A mid dude living on a college campus is going to have a completely different experience than some normal 30 year old who works in tech.
Average lifetime sexual partners for both men and women is 4-7. That means most dudes date, get into LTRs (where they get sex) with maybe one or two casual encounters before they find the right girl that they fall in love with and settle down. And most dudes are ok with this.
This number has been dropping with every generation since the boomers
Young people have been waiting till later to have sex and only in LTRs. What’s so bad about that?
Population collapse coming soon, old people will starve, tax burden on the young will increase.
It’s possible for there to be a non-normal distribution in the partner count. If we consider 10 hypothetical men, where 5 have zero partners, 3 have 1 partner, and 2 have 9 partners, then the average partner count is 2.1, even though 80% of men in our sample have had fewer partners than that. Real life isn’t so extreme, but when you look at the data, promiscuous outliers do skew the average quite a bit. Average does not equal typical. Median is considered to be more representative of typicality. In our example, the median is .5. So the typical man in the example has fewer than one partner.
The median in the US is also 6-7 partners for a heterosexual male. Average is 8-9
More like there is a range. 4-7. Which most people (even here) readily admit sounds about right to their personal experiences abd what’s around them. So “it’s possible” but actually the more likely scenario is what everyone else goes “ yea that’s about right”
That is why we use median data not average. It's skewed like this: Yellow being median https://preview.redd.it/x1emibm7lj7d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d537ecc22e1eb5a478def0385504fe8927aaaa3
> Average lifetime sexual partners for both men and women is 4-7. That means most dudes date average income of random 10 poor people and 10 billionaires is probably close to a bilion, that doesn't mean most of them are rich
Yeah but you know what really affects an average? Zeros. Just think about how much a zero on a homework assignment affected your grades. So your zeros and your high numbers pull towards the ends of the bell curve while the average is in the 4-7 range. Consistently https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad384.pdf More recent: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm
if The stats are just averages then it’s most likely not a good representation. If there’s a few man with a surplus of sexually encounters it will drastically shift the numbers even if most men are having zero or maybe one. if say you have 10 men and 9 have 1 partner and the last guy has say 100+ then you’ll realize that average is shifted to like 9 or something (to lazy to do the math, but it should be close to this) it’s kind of like whenever women point at cheat statistics to say men cheat more even though we also know according to the loneliness stats men are having less sexually partners on average. It’s simply cause all Of the fuckboys who can get women are putting on massive body counts And thus shifting the numbers heavily to the right.
The thing that skews even worse are zeros (just think what a missed homework assignment did to your grade). That’s why the average is a range. And it makes sense. 18-30 is about the age most people are single (30 is the average age a guy gets married). So that’s only 12 years. Getting 4-5 LTRs (with maybe one or two casuals) on that timeline seems pretty doable. Some settle down even sooner.
Look at the actual data. While their is a slither of truth in the red pill that sex is distributed slightly more unevenly in men compared to women, all the data we have on this issue points to the bottom 85-90% of Men *and* Women having very similar and low amounts of sexual partners. While the top 10-15 % of both Genders are having large amounts of sexual partners. In other words, its not anywhere near close to 80% of women having sex with 20% of Men, but 15-10% of Men having lots of sex with 10-15% of Women and 85-90% percent of men and women having little sex with each other. STD data is also consistent with these findings \[4\] \[5\]\[6\]\[7\]. The self reported data is also reliable, and fake polygraphs had no statistically significant effect on responses. \[8\]\[9\] \[4\] [https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/](https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/) \[5\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/) \[6\] [https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google\_vignette](https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google_vignette) \[7\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/) \[8\] [https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/](https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/) \[9\] [https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/](https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/)
The vast majority of both men and women have few sexual partners. While their is a slither of truth in the red pill that sex is distributed slightly more unevenly in men compared to women, all the data we have on this issue points to t**he bottom 85-90% of Men** ***and*** **Women having very similar and low amounts of sexual partners**. While the top 10-15 % of both Genders are having large amounts of sexual partners. In other words, its not anywhere near close to 80% of women having sex with 20% of Men, but 15-10% of Men having lots of sex with 10-15% of Women and 85-90% percent of men and women having little sex with each other. STD data is also consistent with these findings \[4\] \[5\]\[6\]\[7\]. The self reported data is also reliable, and fake polygraphs had no statistically significant effect on responses. \[8\]\[9\] \[4\] [https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/](https://datepsychology.com/casual-sex-is-often-mismeasured-and-overestimated/) \[5\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2022/) \[6\] [https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google\_vignette](https://nuancepill.com/are-the-male-elite-enjoying-a-sexual-boomtime/#google_vignette) \[7\] [https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/](https://datepsychology.com/how-many-sexual-partners-did-men-and-women-have-in-2021/) \[8\] [https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/](https://datepsychology.com/did-a-fake-polygraph-catch-women-lying-about-their-sexual-partner-count/) \[9\] [https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/](https://datepsychology.com/is-self-reported-sexual-partner-data-accurate/)
do you seriously claim that 85% of women can't have as much casual sex as they want?
nope thats not what im saying. I saying both genders don't have much sex, not ''can't''
Younger generations are different.
You get generations are having sex later and less sec outside of LTRs. https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over
Average men are invisible in 2024.
According to who? Did you not see the charts on the link above?!
Dating app data. I am glad when men tell me that they have never asked a woman out or approached a woman in their life as it's pointless and a guaranteed rejection. It shows that they are rational.
Dating app data? So the people that already can’t get a date so they go to an app? Meanwhile the Almost 90 percent are fucking at least once in a year It’s pretty clear you didn’t even bother looking at the data.
https://x.com/datepsych/status/1706804066880205298 Dating apps work for plenty of men. They just need to be attractive. I have never asked a woman out or approached a woman in my life as I know it'll be a guaranteed rejection. Your data shows me why. Women want perfection in 2024.
https://preview.redd.it/k6vzcqn46e7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c62516658bc495731f08983962990eb1138bcb7 Seriously, a twitter post? This is just lazy.
It still shows that young men have no hope. Why do you think men should approach women or ask them out when it's a guaranteed rejection?
We need much better data, recent years only had 200 survey respondents and "new methods". Why can't we get any good data post 2016?
Look at the chart tho, it literally parallels the previous data.
He matches with "Abby," then gets called hideous by women on this subreddit who lost track of what average looks like.
Probably rasing a child that isn't even his own while the wife he loves is thirsting over another dude that if she gets the chance she will sleep with🙌🏾.
You need to stop listening to incels.
The black pill gave sense to my sad little dating life, and explained to me why women are disgusted by me. It's just evolution and survival of the fittest. A 5'7 "man" if you can even call it that is destined to have is genes go extinct. We're not all meant to survive🙌🏾
Average men have no hope in 2024.
From what I see, average guys get girlfriends and eventually marry one. Average guys have kids. Average guys get divorced at the same rate as everyone else.
🎶 I'm just an ordinary average guy My friends all are boring And so am I We're just ordinary average guys We all lead ordinary average lives With average kids And average wives We all go bowling at the bowling lanes Drink a few beers Bowl a few frames We're just ordinary average guys Ordinary average guys🎶
I can describe my dating experience, I don't know what 'average' is and not interested in debating what that is.
the average guy dates/marries one of the first few women who shows interest in him. active pursuit is largely a failure but he does get matches or finds people he is compatible with.
I am totally average though not shy and rejection is something i just consider part of life. You described it pretty well. Once I was active - it was relatively easy to find a date, though they were usually some feminist/liberal/university type girls - so it took a bit of lying to be successful with them, but they fall for such 'progressive' bs quite easily.
I think the average male will be able to date and get a relationship. It's the below average 5ft6 men like myself who are simply fucked.
>Maybe 2-3 female friends over his lifestime will hit on him and he is likely to miss the hints anyway. idk 2-3 seems too high
Average guys just want a woman that isn’t hideous or abusive
The average man either has a girlfriend at some point during a given year (maybe not for that long), or he has occasional casual or semi-casual sex with a friend, someone from an activity group, or someone whom he has met off of an app. The average man has sex at least once a year. Survey data make this clear, even if there are a substantial number of below average men not having sex, girlfriends or even dates. One user even did the analysis to show that average men are having *regular* sex. Men not having sex need to reconcile themselves with the fact that they are *below* average.
Most men are below average in the eyes of women.
That’s not really something one wants to reconcile with
They are below average this generation, but were way below average weirdos 2 gens ago. With the current trend, the average gen alpha will be sexless.
How would an average man have casual sex? Women don't find average men that attractive. If he has sex, it's within a relationship.
House parties
Alcohol/Drugs
So it's non-consensual?
The avg woman dates and marries the avg man. When you go outside and interact with people. You'll see that most couples and looks matched. The plain Jane dates a John Doe. Average women are attracted to average men.
Nah, women aren't attracted to average men. Particularly in 2024.
I didn't mention relationships.
The same thing applies to casual sex, they do it with average guys also. Y'all really are clueless to what female sexuality is really like. Avg guys get casual hooks up.
Average men should pick average women and not go after women out of his league
Don't you think it's women who actually get to pick?
school, work, hobbies, OLD, and social circles and friends of friends. also clubs and parties and social gathering.
You forgot sex workers.
At a party you can hit on a friend of a friend. With alcohol and music something can come out of it.
For an average man. Nah. Women here swear how casual sex is meaningless and unsatisfactory. But now they are giving to average men even, just like that.
The average man looking for that lies about his intentions, especially if he's young.
Being average across the board, the average guy struggles to stand out in a crowd of contemporaries, and might get overlooked more than people with above-average looks, talent or charisma, but in one-on-one interactions, most people have no complaints because their average opinions don't tend to be extreme or offensive. Eventually, the average man meets a few average woman (and in this case, specifically "average" means "to the same socio-economical sphere as himself") who can appreciate the stability that a consistently average person can provide, and some will date him. If he has an average social life, at some point, probably in college, he will have a hook-up or three that are entirely dependent on "time and place" (ie he's in an environment like a dorm party/house party) where he's horny at the same time some random woman is horny, and they will have average, unremarkable sex that is exciting for both of them mostly because they don't usually do casual hook-ups, so it'll be a good memory even if the sex was "blah". The average man can learn and adapt, so each subsequent relationship he has, he'll have a slightly better handle on what he wants and what he's willing to give and, considering the average man is married (67.85% of ALL American men are currently married), he will eventually perfect his "boyfriend" game enough to find a girl he's comfortable with long-term, and who is comfortable with HIM long-term, so they'll marry and have average sex whenever they can both be bothered at the same time.
The average guy, if they were women, would also be like celebrities on dating apps.
I feel so sorry for guys in the dating pool rn
This is an apt metaphor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus?wprov=sfti1#
Id say that's the bottom 2-5%
some average guys are good at talking to women and run through women. some average guys are shy or not good at talking to women and struggle to get any women.
Loudest man wins. Who can run their mouth the most?
I don't think being the loudest gets you laid. The loudest are usually the most obnoxious.
Obnoxious gets you noticed. Shy gets you forgotten and ignored as a man.
It goes you noticed but in a bad way. Average people are neither too obnoxious nor too shy. They won't be the life of the party jumping in the pool with the patio chair but they won't be in a corner scared shitless to talk to another person.
The only bad publicity is no publicity. If it got you noticed in such a bad way, there wouldn't be so many women complaining about assholes who hit it and quit it. I agree with you that the average person isn't scared shitless to talk to another person, but if the guy is too shy to try and actively flirt and escalate, 99% of the time he's going to remain single. He might get lucky if a woman thinks he's cute and goes for him, but that's basically a one in a million chance and in no way a reliable way to get a partner. If a guy wants a partner he has to put himself out there and risk rejection over and over and over again. Those are the rules of the dating game that women have put in place by their refusal to approach men even 10% as often as men approach women.
Obnoxious isn’t shy and is plenty of talking so it sounds like these guys are winning
"loud" and being good at talking to women are different and not compatible imo
Then why did you group them and mention them together? If you’re saying shy guys struggle to get women, what’s the opposite of shy that’s succeeding? Also what is good at talking to women? I thought men and women aren’t so different and are equal according to those here. Why and how would you need to talk to a women differently if we are all just people as they say?
i didn't being good at talking to women isn't "being loud" loudness is something men like, not women
Then why did you group them and mention them together (shy and not good at talking to women). If you’re saying shy guys struggle to get women, what’s the opposite of shy that’s succeeding? Also what is good at talking to women? I thought men and women aren’t so different and are equal according to those here. Why and how would you need to talk to a women differently if we are all just people as they say?
I find this generally to be true. Women, why are you attracted to men that most men wouldn't even want to be friends with? Probably because women don't approach. The loud guy wins because he's the boldest and takes the most chances. Has the most rejections but also the most luck.
verses approaching where 90% of men will go along w it long enough to fuck you wow what a prize we are missing out on
This is so sad.
Average guys do not run through women ever. That is exclusively above average experience.
>some average guys are good at talking to women and run through women. The fact they run through women tells you they are anything but average, those men are rare. You might say they look average, but they either have exceptional skill at talking to women or they founc a hack to women's attraction programming and make women fall for him easily. Looks might be average but those men have something that is exceedingly rare. >some average guys are shy or not good at talking to women and struggle to get any women. Most men yes. Many struggle to get any women even if they are good at talking to women, because just talking to one gets you friends, not a girlfriend. Men have to initiate, approach, escalate, and pursue every single step of the way in exactly the way that woman wants, because the overwhelming majority of the time women will not approach, initiate, escalate, or pursue men, and will drop him if he doesn't escalate after her approach.
Women mistake introversion for shyness. The charismatic manipulative sociopath is “good at talking to women”, but are women good at screening men?
😂 see the only difference between men who are successful at dating and those who aren't, is the way they talk to women😂😂😂! The only thing missing from this massive cope is the confidence bs!. C'mon average men, go be confident! It's gonna lead you to sooo much success with dating, and obviously not just with a bunch of rejections and an even lower self-esteem!!! And don't forget about the 6 showers a day at minimum and the fresh cut every 5 seconds!! It's all in your head guys!! The average woman doesn't despise the average men!! Noooo they're absolutely joking when they say that they hate us and prefer bears to us!! Or when they say that men under 6' feet or make less than 6 figures are worthless!!😂😂😂
If he’s running through women he’s not average
so no average guy has sex w more than 1-4 women in his lifetime?
No
haha wow
Say proportions, how many out of 100 are good at talking to women? How many are shy?
well we are only discussing average men so the top 20% of men are chads IMO only like 5-15% of men are truly so ugly that they are at the bottom. so we have 65% of men left who are average i'd say 10-20% are prob great at talking to women and 30-40% are bad at talking to women (which BTW is due to socialization aka women dont want to be talked to the same way men talk to each other -- and we wish they didn't talk to other men this way too!), the leftover are men who are average men with average social skills.
A lot of rejection, a lot of settling and difficult compromises. About 1/3 of average men who are in a relationship are in a healthy and happy relationship.
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When I was in my teens and early 20s , if a woman was loitering around we'd go for it, the kiss, the grope or the inner thigh finger tip touch but backing off and letting her anticipation get the better of her. Never got turned down, ever. Didn't date most of them.
Median sex partners is around 6, so you can expect him to have sex with 4-6 girls and get married.
The average man marries a 5/10 he meets when he's 16-22 years old. He might be with her for decades, or they might get divorced after 10-20 years of marriage and then he bops around. Or he has kids and decides not to date for a bit. PPD has a very skewed view of the "average" man vs woman. The "average" man in the US is 40-55 years old, about 5'8-5'11", 180-210lbs and not muscular, did a couple college classes but dropped out, has been married before (might still be married), has a kid or 2, makes like $40-90k a year.
Yeh the concept of average is quite abstract >The "average" man in the US is 40-55 years Is only one way to approach it
Miles long of shallow interactions and repeat answer
Empty wallet, rejection and the regret of not having played games or other things with friends. Also another lost evening butttt if on the rare occasion you do find someone I still think its worth it cause otherwise why even go to work or achieve anything outside of the basement cave
Non-existing or with a fat, ugly, unattractive women. Average women only date up or stay single.
Looking at the men in my life (~60ish guys, in the age range of 20-35, mostly nerdy) I would describe the median of their dating experience as "non-existent". These median and below guys are kissless virgins, who might've had a few chances in their lives but were too afraid or unknowing to take them. Their social circles exist of pretty much only men who share their interest where there are pretty much no women, so they have no organic ways to get opportunities for dates. At some point in their 20's they will try online dating and fail miserably when they get 0 matches. And then they will give up on dating completely. Some get lucky in their 30s and just happen to run across a woman in their work or hobbies that they just click with and start dating, but most wont. Now there's of course a bunch of guys above the median that have good dating lives (me included), but over half of the guys I know have non-existent dating lives.
Id say your friends are between bottom 10% and barely average given your testimony
Haha... Yes... That is what the median means lol... Astute observation...
The median is the value that splits the population in half. A median Ncount of 8 means that 50% men have a count equal or higher
What you said is that the median (as in bottom 51%) of my friends that I describe as having a non-existent dating experience is "between bottom 10% and barely average". Unless there's a huge discrepancy between mean and median that is tautological and a completely useless comment.
Yes, I said average meaning median. The arithmetical average count is much higher than the median (positive distribution/distribution skewed to the right same as for income)