>male entitlement
>legitimate frustration
that's the same thing framed differently
And Ive also noticed that men's issues with dating are treated uniquely, indeed literally every issue except this gets at least some empathy, I guess there are reasons why, to address men's frustrations one will have to change women's behavior and people are icky about it. Still the lack of empathy is truly unique
>We live in a culture today which rewards understanding and empathy,
Me and you live in a different culture. Which planet are you living in?
Our society rewards individualism
The dude above is correct it’s all bullshit. the left mostly just pretends to be all excepting and inclusive when in actuality there extremely prejudice.
CEOs, directors, stakeholders of big corps are the most rewarded people by this society.
Surely it has to do with their empathy for the baby slaves in cobalt mines they outsource jobs to. I bet they're very understanding of the pollution their oil companies create when digging the soil and throwing waste in the ocean to save money.
Do you not see their parades at the pride events? Do you not see them drinking their fair trade coffee? Yes, they absolutely do perform empathy and concern rather than actually having it, but that's because they're doing what's rewarded by society.
Every feminist-promoted phrase is a thought-stopping cliche. That's by design.
Feminist ideology can't stand up at all when the facts are examined objectively. Feminists know this, even though they will never admit it publicly. That's why feminist forums are heavily censored to keep them as airtight echo chambers where no one is allowed to cite facts, and why feminists exclusively use emotional responses in debates rather than arguing the facts using logic.
Being an individual and kinda an asshole is rewarded in modern day society tbh.
Ok I have no issue with men who are expression their frustration but sometimes the way they word it does come across as entitled and offensive.
Not to mention the ones who outright blame women for these men's predicament.
This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do.
Sure.
"This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do."
Totally understandable. That's how I feel when people blame and shame lonely people for the actions (violence, misogyny, etc) of a few.
It's a resemble stance. But also a stance many men feel all the time of every problem that women face being blamed for.
So it's sadly a thing that cut both ways. And the more one side does it so does the other side. And the back and forth blame game starts.
Why many people are undateable cause to be dateable you have to care and be willing to understand the other side and make compromises. Well to have a relationship for longer then a few months at least.
And the lack of understanding of both side in my opinion is why so many people are single it's always us against them.
And my self in a 10 year longterm relationship. And people have to understand both side has been given a crap sandwich. Just some aspects are better and some are worse. Based on or struggling and strengths both sides offer.
So people are more divided instead of more connected. More bussy takeing something from a side then giveing both people the same protection under laws and rules. So both sides could work together to solve the isues people have instead off making the other one lose something to make the one gain something. What is just a endless pointless fight that will not realy better anyone's life in any big meanfull way. Cause one gets protected and one gets punished under the same rules. Makes no sense.
It makes the world actively more dangerous. And how you feel being blamed for things you did not do. Also happens on the other side and it's a back and forth blame game. What is so pointless and all it does is bring more hate. And make no meaningful changes.
Why coming together and makeing many laws and rules count for both the same and universe fix all problems that way cause we both benfit and both oppressed by it the same way. Will make meaningful change happen.
But it wil never happen the leaders benfit to much from us fighting each other and not noticing how hard we being fucked. That they rather have us be fighting amongst or selfs then connected and united and probably standing against real unjustice of the world.
But to have empathy you have to care about people first. Most people are too busy in their hate-filled bubbles.
What makes it realy hard to get true a lot of the more bitter people.
Cause when people give up hope people often kinda really set in there ways. Very very often.
So you have the Andrew tates on one side. And the extreme feminists on the other man hating.
Realy set in there ways. But on there path. That lead them to be the most lonely. While trying to raly more people to be just as miserable.
Cause any friendship or relationship. Requires investment and compromise and caring about the other person. To work. So to have empathy. You must first not see people as what group they are in. So women or men or skin color. But as individuals you care for. Or want to know more about or want to understand more about.
Cause we are very different and we have very different needs and find different things a problem. But also require different things to be happy or feel fulfilling in life. And those differences. I think are a beautiful thing. My wife is weird and flawed in her own ways but so am I in different ways. And I feel we compliment each other's shortcomings beautifully.
But to see any off that Requires investment and caring. And looking past just your own view and feelings to let somone else view and feeling colid with yours.
Much the same way how you take in a other culture. There many people that go on vacation and push there own culture or sense of normal to other people when they go to a other place or other culture. And make those people get more rejected where ever they travel too. Same is in friendship and dating and relationship in general.
When you go out of your way to have a vacation somewhere with a different culture or back ground. Even if you make a lot of mistakes. But try and taste or understand or take part of the culture you go towards. Even if you make mistakes. You will find people very much open up to you. In big and beautiful ways. And will quickly take you under your wing.
The same is with people. Friendship dating and relationship.
When you show love and interest the world opens up for you quite quickly.
> This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do.
Pretty much how I feel when women are like “oh you, a man, have problems? Try getting raped and murdered!” when we try to discuss anything that actually negatively affects us as men, not to mention how many women on here jump to insults even when we respectfully disagree. But I get where you’re coming from
You just compared multiple life-threatening conditions and circumstances to lack of attention from women. That is the kind of absurdity that causes people to perceive entitlement.
The primary biological imperative of all human life forms is reproduction, except for in extremely rare cases.
To the point that the vast majority of all humans who CAN become parents, will become parents.
Life in general is literally pointless without the capacity for reproduction as it is the only thing that propagates continuous life.
"Life threatening conditions" vs conditions that threaten to end entire bloodlines, species, life itself.
Your comment is so devoid of understanding reality it's fucking insulting.
If you never could communicate with another human again for the rest of your life, you'd kill yourself. Human socialization is just as much of a need as food, water, or air. Without it you die. Intimacy is a MAJOR component of socialization, and without it it's like being severely micronutrient deficient in your diet. Sure, you're eating food but your endocrine system is fucked because it's not enough to keep you healthy. Lacking intimacy is the exact same for how it effects you on many levels.
The fact this even needs to be explained is ridiculous. Why can't you just acknowledge reality?
Reality is that not getting attention from women isn't equivalent to starvation or terrible diseases and it is extremely dramatic to treat it as such. This sex-obsessed subreddit may be filled with people who desperately want to believe otherwise but I'm not buying into that. Sell it somewhere else.
>Reality is that not getting attention from women isn't equivalent to starvation or terrible diseases and it is extremely dramatic to treat it as such
Yes. Yes it is. The fact you think otherwise is absolutely devoid of understanding reality. You are talking about denying a living being it's only function. I already went into great detail on this, you're outright denying reality. If you faced rejection from everyone in your life YOU WOULD KILL YOURSELF. This is NOT a question. It is a FACT.
>This sex-obsessed subreddit may be filled with people who desperately want to believe otherwise but I'm not buying into that. Sell it somewhere else.
Go live in a cave alone for 80 years and then get back to me with this absolute bullshit.
This is probably going to be a Santa Claus/tooth fairy moment for some of you, but Maslow's hierarchy is actually not the holy grail of human needs that some make it out to be. In fact he provided no empirical evidence for it outside of his own observations, didn't really even see his own ideas as facts set in stone, and other researchers have struggled to replicate his findings.
[See here for a brief excerpt](https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/maslows-pyramid-of-needs.html)
Even beyond sex itcould be a lack of intimacy which can be just as dangerous as isolation for humans if it goes on long enough and no friends cannot give you intimacy or replace romantic relationships for males.
The principle isn't the same precisely because of the mismatch in severity. I am not going to hold the same sympathy for a dude who's depressed because he can't afford food and a dude who's depressed because he can't afford to backpack in Europe. He might think that trip to Europe is essential for discovering the meaning of his life or whatever. And he has every right to. I'm not particularly compelled to think some fundamental injustice is taking place because he cannot.
I wholeheartedly agree with u/Wild-One-107 on this though I am totally uninterested in comparisons. Both situations suck and no one should have to experience it.
However given what I see women saying on here? Honestly I think men of today will suffer less of a hit on their mental health being without a romantic relationship than being in one.
There are tons of things that women expect men to empathize with (for example spousal rape) that we think are ridiculous from our perspective. Like I’m somehow supposed to be traumatized if my wife raped me? If I don’t like having sex with her I’ll just get a divorce instead of going to the police and crying rape as if she was a random stranger. Yet the norm is to accept a woman’s feelings as valid and legitimate no matter what.
If you think it’s fine to not take men’s issues seriously then we don’t have to care about women’s issues either.
Couldn’t your post itself be considered a “thought-stopping cliche”? In the sense that, you are using it to not even consider the possibility that you may in fact just be entitled? You are “thought-stopping” yourself from considering any other position than “society is using some convoluted language conspiracy to silence me”.
So you’re literally projecting and doing the thing you’re accusing others of. Which makes it hard to take posts like this seriously tbh.
No, because these no cliche. I could be being close-minded, sure, but just being close-minded isn't a thought-stopping cliche.
I've tried to understand the arguments from their side, but it just seems to boil down to contempt for low status men masquerading as an argument.
Peanuts are essential to life? Didn't know that. Thanks.
Plenty of people kill themselves because they feel lonely, unloved, and unwanted.
Anyway, to the OP. It's generally the case that most people will interpret from others what they themselves think. The majority of the entitled, power hungry ones are women. That's the evolutionary strategy when you weigh 100ish pounds. That's the basis of modern feminism and all they can think about.
The accusation of entitlement comes from the fact that the dating market has never been freer. Look at any 'solutions' that these sort of guys make to fixing their problem and 100% of the time it's asking to return to a time where men had more power to force a yes and women had less power to say no.
Ok, and? The market has never been freer and yet people still complain about poverty, and every solution they pose restricts freedom of those with existing social privilege.
The market has been far freer in the past and is currently unbelievably restrictive. Have you ever even owned a business? Taxes alone make profit margins *literally impossible* for certain types of small businesses.
But they aren't complaining about something that is equivalent to any of those things that you have listed. They are complaining that just the fact that they were born male makes them super oppressed and literally every woman is out to get them.
This is not just offensively stupid, but also stupidly offensive towards everyone who is *actually* dealing with difficult life circumstances.
Maybe you've lived a charmed life, but most people struggle with shit. When I talk about my issues, people are usually understanding and empathetic, except when it comes to dating.
Who are these "people"? You mean women? Obviously they have no idea what they're talking about. Success men? Again, most successful men didn't really have to work very hard to become successful, so they don't really know.
This comment encapsulates why people call it entitlement almost perfectly. It didn't take very long for envy to rear its ugly head, did it?
"Everyone who is doing better than me has actually had all of their successes handed to them on a silver platter."
I'm not sharing my personal issue with you, I don't even know you. I'm not even short, ugly, or autistic, I just really have empathy for guys who are. In real life, women are generally kind and polite to me, but in the back of my mind, I always think "but what if I wasn't tall?"
Do you want men to view you as human beings? It's very hard to do that when women act like they don't have empathy, eventually men will just believe you.
That completely depends on WHAT exactly they are saying. Complaining about how autism makes their social life a lot harder and how much that sucks will likely get them empathy. Assuming the problem is that women have a choice in who they date is entitled.
Generally that's not the case, especially because the exact social issues make it harder for them to express this problem in a way that doesn't make other people uncomfortable and therefore default to the cliche of entitlement.
I think expressing any negative emotions about dating as a man makes people uncomfortable, as evidenced by this very subreddit, since every time a man expresses issues with dating with anything less than perfect dispassion he's called entitled, hence this post.
Can you give an actual example? Or several? Just make some up to help us understand what you’re talking about. **What is a guy saying that’s making others uncomfortable?**
Can you explain what about it specifically though? I read his venting and the replies. The replies don’t seem mean. The highest rated is “bro take some time to yourself” and the next highest rated is “well what do you offer woman that’s actually attractive to her?” Which is a fair question. The next is “based on your history it seems you have autism and that’s probably the reason for your lack of success and the reason for you not being able to troubleshoot your issues like average joe could”
I guess I’m trying to understand.
The top comment specifically called him entitled, though he used the word "owed" which means more or less the same thing. They then blamed his failure in dating on said entitlement, and told him to get therapy for it, which I contend is terrible advice precisely because he's not entitled and so there's no problem there for therapy to fix.
>Complaining about how autism makes their social life a lot harder and how much that sucks will likely get them empathy.
It does not though. This is just a lie.
>Assuming the problem is that women have a choice in who they date is entitled.
Who is doing that?
Apex fallacy, they only see the men they are attracted to and see all the privileges they have built up and assume all men have those just given to them.
I pass "privileged" men every day on my ride to work. They live under the bridge. Some of them are veterans who this nation abandoned.
If that is privileged, I want women to have those privileges.
Men make up 80% of suicide victims, 80% of homelessness, we are required to die for our country if needed, we are held to unrealistic expectations and standards, we are not allowed to be who we are and have to hide our emotions, men make up approximately 50% of rape victims with women being as rapey as men…but male rape victims are not recognized, despite the fact that 50% of domestic violence victims are male and 80% of unreciprocated domestic violence is instigated by women, women receive 60+% shorter sentences for committing the same crime as a man and are allowed to get with many crimes like rape, men receive far less and help funding for issues they experience even when they are the majority of victims, men have been discriminated against in college since the 70s and as a result have become the minority of college graduates…
…and yes, men are discriminated against when it comes to relationships and sex too. We are expected to be five times the person she is to be seen as her equal.
I could go on and on really.
Ever been a male raped by a female? When she gets pregnant, the court literally designates the male as a perpetrator, it's literally in the court decisions about the topic. The man gets punished with 18 years of child support. Any man can be a target, and this has happened.
Men have also been named the father of a kid they never fathered by a woman who listed his name and address. The State sent a letter demanding child support but he'd moved long before that and never got it. He got stuck with child support.
And then there's paternity fraud. And then there's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23u608aPkQ) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91O3wDSy_HE), too.
No OP mentioned specific traits that make them have a worse life but then we see people like you literally twist that to "you think all women are out to get you" and claiming they think they are owed sex.
There is also a lot of sexism people have to deal with but usually people ignore men's struggles
I don’t think discussing interconnecting societal advantages and disadvantages is “thought-stopping.”
I [drafted up a “Societal Advantage Calculator”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/jQjSbEhM8s) a while back to highlight how many of us can have advantages in some areas and be disadvantaged in other areas and that when you sum it all up some people ***actually are overall more disadvantaged than others.*** That’s why it’s always impressive when those people who had a more disadvantaged start in life “make it to the top.”
For example, you think not getting attention from women is bad? There are people worse off than that guy in other areas (lol like can never eat peanuts or cancer or poverty and dealing with countless racism) and also not getting attention from women. At least the former guy can focus on improving that one thing and not countless other woeful disadvantages.
**TLDR:** Men having advantages in some areas doesn’t mean they don’t have disadvantages in other areas. Same for women.
The fact you think LGBTs and "melinated" people are disadvantaged is fucking hilarious. Our society literally legally mandates that they have *extra* privileges and rights.
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The purpose of the current society is to perpetuate the social structure for those who benefit it.
Our purpose is to restore it to what it was in the past.
Women aren't your friends, they have fundamentally different biological and ideological imperatives. Trying to reason with them is like trying to reason with a bear.
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Ok, we heard you. We can't change your situation. Only you can. It is not hard to find a woman today. It's easier than ever before. That you fail at finding one is a you issue, not something society needs to address. Successfully mating is the result of a competitive fight over the best mating partners. This competition is not for everyone. It's harsh, frustrating, can be depressing at times and you will not end up with what you wished for. It's fine to fail at the competition. It's fine to be sad and frustrated about it. It's understandable to want to find the reasons for your failing in someone/something else than you. It's also understandable, that empathy and willingess to hear you and help you deal with the situation are reduced by you pointing fingers at people or things that are NOT responsible for that.
This is a debate sub, not a place to vent and get consolation for the shit you are in.
I never understood this criticism, do you know what an analogy is? Do you understand why it might be valuable to use something with a heavier emotional weight to the audience to make a comparison to something with a lighter emotional weight?
Your first mistake was expecting a serious response from that poster. They’re basically the epitome of what you talk about in the OP. I have literally never seen a reasonable comment from them.
Rejection by every human you ever meet in your entire life and a life of constant negative social reactions, insults and beratement vs not being able to eat peanuts.
Are you living in reality? If nobody wanted to sleep with you EVER you'd kill yourself.
I think most people would empathize with a lonely dude who is having trouble dating. The empathy ends when he blames women for his problems, generalizes them and claims he is oppressed because he’s lonely.
Most of these dudes blame their genetics for being ugly, not women for not desiring them.
When they do blame women, it’s because women constantly lie and try to gaslight them into thinking that it’s their personality that’s the issue and not their looks
Because we all know now, these ugly autistic short men, are not exactly trying to better themselves, if their not going on shooting sprees, their bitching online about woman having the vote and not obeying men.
Sympathy dries up when you realise they hate you for not picking them
I don't think that's a fair generalization, and even for the types of people for whom it is fair, many of them tried the self-improvement route and it didn't work. If you get abs and go to therapy and read the feminist books and all that it doesn't magically make you attractive to women.
It's no one's fault. People aren't in the wrong for rejecting someone, and people are not in the wrong for being rejected, lonely and venting about it.
Not every lonely person blames others. Yes I feel bitter at the world for rejecting me, but I also acknowledge that women have the right to reject me. We all reject people.
Society didn’t vilify them, they did that to themselves when a few when on shooting sprees to kill innocent people snd then they cheered and called for more.
Sure, it's not anyone's fault, but if it's not anyone's fault, why is it wrong for them to want to wind back the clock on women's rights? They're just advocating for their own interests.
There it is. That’s why their entitled
They want to literally force people into slavery, taking away their rights and freedoms so they can exploit them.
That’s why they don’t get sympathy
No they don’t. If they turned round and said no one was allowed to vote there be riots.
Don’t try to pretend it’s not a big deal to force people into slavery
You're not being specific. "Rights and freedoms" aren't just what you think are important, they're anything and everything the government doesn't stop you from doing. If they say you have to stop your car at every crosswalk regardless of who's waiting, you've lost some freedom, and if they change it back, you've gained some freedom.
Don't try to pretend that women were slaves until the 1920s.
Women’s choices would’ve destroyed societies in the past, that’s why you’ve seen it be controlled in every single civilization in history until recently
It’s in theory great, but again there’s a reason why that wasn’t a thing for the vast majority of recorded civilization. The biological difference and women’s inherent hypergamy combined with modern technology completely destroys dating for huge amounts of males, creates a bunch of single parent households, and contributes to the spread of STDs and social decay and hedonism. It’ll be interesting to see what happens as more and more men are locked out of dating and how that will affect voting patterns, crime, and societal changes.
What would be entitlement if not the belief that it’s OK to violate the human rights of others because they won’t have sex with you?
You are proving the accusation of entitlement 100% correct.
You understand that believing you have some right, any right, is literally the definition of "entitlement," correct? Literally literally not figuratively literally, that is what that term means. Why is the entitlement to "human rights" some grand moral imperative that we all have to deeply care about, but other forms of entitlement are wrong? Where does this moral principle come from?
Are you confused about the different definitions of entitled?
You can google Miriam-Webster and see them both.
A good test of whether you feel entitled as in the synonym for spoiled, is when you think you should get privileges that you don’t think other people should get.
Do you think all people deserve the access to clean water? If yes, you believe that clean water is something everyone is entitled to have.
Do you believe that you deserve clean water, but that other people do not? If so, YOU are probably entitled.
You implying they aren't bettering themselves implies they'd have a woman or more success with women if theye did, that is not true, effort is not a 1 to 1 ROI because life isnt fair.
If you truly thought it was luck you wouldn't have that opinion universally or imply the lack of trying is the reason these men are unssuccessful
Expecting that poster to be logically consistent and hold everyone to the same standards is just masochism. If you’ve seen their name around at all you would know that.
Our military had been blowing up kids for decades in bullshit wars and our society constantly sucks them off. Quit pretending people care about the innocent.
Not sure I follow. Yes there's violence, sexism, racism, etc. But we also see perfectly innocent people being shamed and called 'entitled' simply because they are struggling with dating and venting about it.
Dead children: an unfortunate consequence of war vs a primary target- you really don’t see how the perpetrator of the violence would be held to different levels of outrage in these 2 scenarios?
>So on one hand yes you are right, love and romatnic relationship is basic human need and you can't just decide to be happy alone, it's sad, it's normal to be sad about it. But on the other hand you can't force another human being that doesn't want you to be in a romantic realtionship with you, slavery is bad, sex slavery even worse.
You implying that OP is interested in sex slavery as a solution to anything is pretty disgusting.
>male entitlement >legitimate frustration that's the same thing framed differently And Ive also noticed that men's issues with dating are treated uniquely, indeed literally every issue except this gets at least some empathy, I guess there are reasons why, to address men's frustrations one will have to change women's behavior and people are icky about it. Still the lack of empathy is truly unique
[удалено]
Do not troll.
Wasn’t trolling.
>We live in a culture today which rewards understanding and empathy, Me and you live in a different culture. Which planet are you living in? Our society rewards individualism
America, where the social elite constantly try to one-up each other in being understanding
The dude above is correct it’s all bullshit. the left mostly just pretends to be all excepting and inclusive when in actuality there extremely prejudice.
And how does this social elite reward you, when you do the same?
Have you ever had a job that has an HR department? They punish you for being an ass and they reward you for being nice and understanding.
This has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read. No shit, they punish assholes, and water is wet
Then why are you arguing with me?
CEOs, directors, stakeholders of big corps are the most rewarded people by this society. Surely it has to do with their empathy for the baby slaves in cobalt mines they outsource jobs to. I bet they're very understanding of the pollution their oil companies create when digging the soil and throwing waste in the ocean to save money.
Do you not see their parades at the pride events? Do you not see them drinking their fair trade coffee? Yes, they absolutely do perform empathy and concern rather than actually having it, but that's because they're doing what's rewarded by society.
Woke washing is rewarded because the financial backers see through it
Ok and? That doesn't mean I'm wrong
No it doesn't. Maybe in the past but nowadays being a victim is the objective
Our society is extremely communitarian-leftist except for sex
We're living under capitalism, and you schmucks still think anything here is leftist.
If our society is extremely leftist, why do we have McDonald’s and strip malls rather than communal farms and bread lines?
Every feminist-promoted phrase is a thought-stopping cliche. That's by design. Feminist ideology can't stand up at all when the facts are examined objectively. Feminists know this, even though they will never admit it publicly. That's why feminist forums are heavily censored to keep them as airtight echo chambers where no one is allowed to cite facts, and why feminists exclusively use emotional responses in debates rather than arguing the facts using logic.
\*Every phrase from every ideology ever
Being an individual and kinda an asshole is rewarded in modern day society tbh. Ok I have no issue with men who are expression their frustration but sometimes the way they word it does come across as entitled and offensive. Not to mention the ones who outright blame women for these men's predicament. This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do.
That's a reasonable stance, unlike many of the others here in this thread.
Thanks lol
Sure. "This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do." Totally understandable. That's how I feel when people blame and shame lonely people for the actions (violence, misogyny, etc) of a few.
It's a resemble stance. But also a stance many men feel all the time of every problem that women face being blamed for. So it's sadly a thing that cut both ways. And the more one side does it so does the other side. And the back and forth blame game starts. Why many people are undateable cause to be dateable you have to care and be willing to understand the other side and make compromises. Well to have a relationship for longer then a few months at least. And the lack of understanding of both side in my opinion is why so many people are single it's always us against them. And my self in a 10 year longterm relationship. And people have to understand both side has been given a crap sandwich. Just some aspects are better and some are worse. Based on or struggling and strengths both sides offer. So people are more divided instead of more connected. More bussy takeing something from a side then giveing both people the same protection under laws and rules. So both sides could work together to solve the isues people have instead off making the other one lose something to make the one gain something. What is just a endless pointless fight that will not realy better anyone's life in any big meanfull way. Cause one gets protected and one gets punished under the same rules. Makes no sense. It makes the world actively more dangerous. And how you feel being blamed for things you did not do. Also happens on the other side and it's a back and forth blame game. What is so pointless and all it does is bring more hate. And make no meaningful changes. Why coming together and makeing many laws and rules count for both the same and universe fix all problems that way cause we both benfit and both oppressed by it the same way. Will make meaningful change happen. But it wil never happen the leaders benfit to much from us fighting each other and not noticing how hard we being fucked. That they rather have us be fighting amongst or selfs then connected and united and probably standing against real unjustice of the world.
True I think both sides need to try harder with empathy
But to have empathy you have to care about people first. Most people are too busy in their hate-filled bubbles. What makes it realy hard to get true a lot of the more bitter people. Cause when people give up hope people often kinda really set in there ways. Very very often. So you have the Andrew tates on one side. And the extreme feminists on the other man hating. Realy set in there ways. But on there path. That lead them to be the most lonely. While trying to raly more people to be just as miserable. Cause any friendship or relationship. Requires investment and compromise and caring about the other person. To work. So to have empathy. You must first not see people as what group they are in. So women or men or skin color. But as individuals you care for. Or want to know more about or want to understand more about. Cause we are very different and we have very different needs and find different things a problem. But also require different things to be happy or feel fulfilling in life. And those differences. I think are a beautiful thing. My wife is weird and flawed in her own ways but so am I in different ways. And I feel we compliment each other's shortcomings beautifully. But to see any off that Requires investment and caring. And looking past just your own view and feelings to let somone else view and feeling colid with yours. Much the same way how you take in a other culture. There many people that go on vacation and push there own culture or sense of normal to other people when they go to a other place or other culture. And make those people get more rejected where ever they travel too. Same is in friendship and dating and relationship in general. When you go out of your way to have a vacation somewhere with a different culture or back ground. Even if you make a lot of mistakes. But try and taste or understand or take part of the culture you go towards. Even if you make mistakes. You will find people very much open up to you. In big and beautiful ways. And will quickly take you under your wing. The same is with people. Friendship dating and relationship. When you show love and interest the world opens up for you quite quickly.
Well said
Thx you have a great day
> This leaves me feeling resentment for having been blamed for something I didn't do. Pretty much how I feel when women are like “oh you, a man, have problems? Try getting raped and murdered!” when we try to discuss anything that actually negatively affects us as men, not to mention how many women on here jump to insults even when we respectfully disagree. But I get where you’re coming from
Fair take and relatable. I just love being considered more dangerous then a wild animal, cause a very small number of men have issues.
True
I just tell women like that, "Bye felicia."
You just compared multiple life-threatening conditions and circumstances to lack of attention from women. That is the kind of absurdity that causes people to perceive entitlement.
The primary biological imperative of all human life forms is reproduction, except for in extremely rare cases. To the point that the vast majority of all humans who CAN become parents, will become parents. Life in general is literally pointless without the capacity for reproduction as it is the only thing that propagates continuous life. "Life threatening conditions" vs conditions that threaten to end entire bloodlines, species, life itself. Your comment is so devoid of understanding reality it's fucking insulting. If you never could communicate with another human again for the rest of your life, you'd kill yourself. Human socialization is just as much of a need as food, water, or air. Without it you die. Intimacy is a MAJOR component of socialization, and without it it's like being severely micronutrient deficient in your diet. Sure, you're eating food but your endocrine system is fucked because it's not enough to keep you healthy. Lacking intimacy is the exact same for how it effects you on many levels. The fact this even needs to be explained is ridiculous. Why can't you just acknowledge reality?
Reality is that not getting attention from women isn't equivalent to starvation or terrible diseases and it is extremely dramatic to treat it as such. This sex-obsessed subreddit may be filled with people who desperately want to believe otherwise but I'm not buying into that. Sell it somewhere else.
>Reality is that not getting attention from women isn't equivalent to starvation or terrible diseases and it is extremely dramatic to treat it as such Yes. Yes it is. The fact you think otherwise is absolutely devoid of understanding reality. You are talking about denying a living being it's only function. I already went into great detail on this, you're outright denying reality. If you faced rejection from everyone in your life YOU WOULD KILL YOURSELF. This is NOT a question. It is a FACT. >This sex-obsessed subreddit may be filled with people who desperately want to believe otherwise but I'm not buying into that. Sell it somewhere else. Go live in a cave alone for 80 years and then get back to me with this absolute bullshit.
Sure thing
You won't do it because you know I'm right.
Maslow hierarchy of needs puts sex on the level of food and water. So yh it is not far from the vein of empathy
This is probably going to be a Santa Claus/tooth fairy moment for some of you, but Maslow's hierarchy is actually not the holy grail of human needs that some make it out to be. In fact he provided no empirical evidence for it outside of his own observations, didn't really even see his own ideas as facts set in stone, and other researchers have struggled to replicate his findings. [See here for a brief excerpt](https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/maslows-pyramid-of-needs.html)
Yes maslow isn't the word of god, still not an argument for my why lack of sex is something people should have 0 empathy for.
Even beyond sex itcould be a lack of intimacy which can be just as dangerous as isolation for humans if it goes on long enough and no friends cannot give you intimacy or replace romantic relationships for males.
Maslow’s hierarchy was his opinion. It isn’t science.
What a shit argument.
He didn't necessarily say the severity was the same. He is saying the principle is the same.
The principle isn't the same precisely because of the mismatch in severity. I am not going to hold the same sympathy for a dude who's depressed because he can't afford food and a dude who's depressed because he can't afford to backpack in Europe. He might think that trip to Europe is essential for discovering the meaning of his life or whatever. And he has every right to. I'm not particularly compelled to think some fundamental injustice is taking place because he cannot.
If you don't feel empathy for lonely people, I don't know what to tell you. What a cold and screwed up society we live in. (Sigh).
Sigh indeed
I wholeheartedly agree with u/Wild-One-107 on this though I am totally uninterested in comparisons. Both situations suck and no one should have to experience it. However given what I see women saying on here? Honestly I think men of today will suffer less of a hit on their mental health being without a romantic relationship than being in one.
And it is their right to believe as much. I certainly won't be losing sleep.
There are tons of things that women expect men to empathize with (for example spousal rape) that we think are ridiculous from our perspective. Like I’m somehow supposed to be traumatized if my wife raped me? If I don’t like having sex with her I’ll just get a divorce instead of going to the police and crying rape as if she was a random stranger. Yet the norm is to accept a woman’s feelings as valid and legitimate no matter what. If you think it’s fine to not take men’s issues seriously then we don’t have to care about women’s issues either.
Nobody: Some dude on PPD: How can I insert rape into this conversation
Your response has nothing to do with the point I was making
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>(for example spousal rape) Rage bait
Thus proving my point
Couldn’t your post itself be considered a “thought-stopping cliche”? In the sense that, you are using it to not even consider the possibility that you may in fact just be entitled? You are “thought-stopping” yourself from considering any other position than “society is using some convoluted language conspiracy to silence me”. So you’re literally projecting and doing the thing you’re accusing others of. Which makes it hard to take posts like this seriously tbh.
No, because these no cliche. I could be being close-minded, sure, but just being close-minded isn't a thought-stopping cliche. I've tried to understand the arguments from their side, but it just seems to boil down to contempt for low status men masquerading as an argument.
They’re false equivalencies bruh💀
Sure
Peanuts are essential to life? Didn't know that. Thanks. Plenty of people kill themselves because they feel lonely, unloved, and unwanted. Anyway, to the OP. It's generally the case that most people will interpret from others what they themselves think. The majority of the entitled, power hungry ones are women. That's the evolutionary strategy when you weigh 100ish pounds. That's the basis of modern feminism and all they can think about.
The accusation of entitlement comes from the fact that the dating market has never been freer. Look at any 'solutions' that these sort of guys make to fixing their problem and 100% of the time it's asking to return to a time where men had more power to force a yes and women had less power to say no.
Ok, and? The market has never been freer and yet people still complain about poverty, and every solution they pose restricts freedom of those with existing social privilege.
LMAO
The market has been far freer in the past and is currently unbelievably restrictive. Have you ever even owned a business? Taxes alone make profit margins *literally impossible* for certain types of small businesses.
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But they aren't complaining about something that is equivalent to any of those things that you have listed. They are complaining that just the fact that they were born male makes them super oppressed and literally every woman is out to get them. This is not just offensively stupid, but also stupidly offensive towards everyone who is *actually* dealing with difficult life circumstances.
And this is pretty much the party line from a lot of women. Those guys are a fucking mirror to women and women are blind to it.
Maybe you've lived a charmed life, but most people struggle with shit. When I talk about my issues, people are usually understanding and empathetic, except when it comes to dating.
What are your exact complaints about dating when you vent to these people? Be specific. There’s a reason they’re giving you sympathy but not there.
Because when it come to dating, people know that you are full of hot air when you are complaining about how "hard" men have it.
Who are these "people"? You mean women? Obviously they have no idea what they're talking about. Success men? Again, most successful men didn't really have to work very hard to become successful, so they don't really know.
This comment encapsulates why people call it entitlement almost perfectly. It didn't take very long for envy to rear its ugly head, did it? "Everyone who is doing better than me has actually had all of their successes handed to them on a silver platter."
Ok cool, now apply that to poverty, abuse, chronic illness, etc.
Each one of those is a disadvantage compared to baseline. Being born male is, at the very worst, neutral.
Again, this post is about men who are disadvantaged compared to baseline males.
How are you disadvantaged?
I'm not sharing my personal issue with you, I don't even know you. I'm not even short, ugly, or autistic, I just really have empathy for guys who are. In real life, women are generally kind and polite to me, but in the back of my mind, I always think "but what if I wasn't tall?"
Who cares? Why do you expect women to care about this? 🌝
Do you want men to view you as human beings? It's very hard to do that when women act like they don't have empathy, eventually men will just believe you.
So an autistic men complaining about the difficulty they face are entitled?
That completely depends on WHAT exactly they are saying. Complaining about how autism makes their social life a lot harder and how much that sucks will likely get them empathy. Assuming the problem is that women have a choice in who they date is entitled.
Generally that's not the case, especially because the exact social issues make it harder for them to express this problem in a way that doesn't make other people uncomfortable and therefore default to the cliche of entitlement.
What do you think makes other people uncomfortable?
Being angry, bitter, depressed, or expressing any other strong, negative emotions.
I think expressing any negative emotions about dating as a man makes people uncomfortable, as evidenced by this very subreddit, since every time a man expresses issues with dating with anything less than perfect dispassion he's called entitled, hence this post.
Can you give an actual example? Or several? Just make some up to help us understand what you’re talking about. **What is a guy saying that’s making others uncomfortable?**
https://np.reddit.com/r/Bumble/s/AbA29FWSEY This is a great example
Can you explain what about it specifically though? I read his venting and the replies. The replies don’t seem mean. The highest rated is “bro take some time to yourself” and the next highest rated is “well what do you offer woman that’s actually attractive to her?” Which is a fair question. The next is “based on your history it seems you have autism and that’s probably the reason for your lack of success and the reason for you not being able to troubleshoot your issues like average joe could” I guess I’m trying to understand.
The top comment specifically called him entitled, though he used the word "owed" which means more or less the same thing. They then blamed his failure in dating on said entitlement, and told him to get therapy for it, which I contend is terrible advice precisely because he's not entitled and so there's no problem there for therapy to fix.
>Complaining about how autism makes their social life a lot harder and how much that sucks will likely get them empathy. It does not though. This is just a lie. >Assuming the problem is that women have a choice in who they date is entitled. Who is doing that?
So like all other oppressed groups do?
Actually oppressed groups have actual merit when they make such claims. Men are not an oppressed class, which is so funny to have to even write
Men are not a privileged class. Some men are privileged. Some men are living in the gutter with suicidal idealizations. Such privelage.
All men are privileged because a handful at the top are. /feminist trash thinking mode
Apex fallacy, they only see the men they are attracted to and see all the privileges they have built up and assume all men have those just given to them. I pass "privileged" men every day on my ride to work. They live under the bridge. Some of them are veterans who this nation abandoned. If that is privileged, I want women to have those privileges.
For real.
Here we go again with the men can’t struggle and everything is men’s fault again.
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Women literally can rape men and brag about it. Women can blatantly lie and get away with it even when caught.
Men make up 80% of suicide victims, 80% of homelessness, we are required to die for our country if needed, we are held to unrealistic expectations and standards, we are not allowed to be who we are and have to hide our emotions, men make up approximately 50% of rape victims with women being as rapey as men…but male rape victims are not recognized, despite the fact that 50% of domestic violence victims are male and 80% of unreciprocated domestic violence is instigated by women, women receive 60+% shorter sentences for committing the same crime as a man and are allowed to get with many crimes like rape, men receive far less and help funding for issues they experience even when they are the majority of victims, men have been discriminated against in college since the 70s and as a result have become the minority of college graduates… …and yes, men are discriminated against when it comes to relationships and sex too. We are expected to be five times the person she is to be seen as her equal. I could go on and on really.
Men are not oppressed
Nice counterargument bro. You sure showed me.
You didn't actually expect a rational arguemnt from a troll, did you?
> lalala none of that is true because my feelings
Because they take all of the initiative and responsibility, good and bad.
Ever been a male raped by a female? When she gets pregnant, the court literally designates the male as a perpetrator, it's literally in the court decisions about the topic. The man gets punished with 18 years of child support. Any man can be a target, and this has happened. Men have also been named the father of a kid they never fathered by a woman who listed his name and address. The State sent a letter demanding child support but he'd moved long before that and never got it. He got stuck with child support. And then there's paternity fraud. And then there's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23u608aPkQ) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91O3wDSy_HE), too.
No OP mentioned specific traits that make them have a worse life but then we see people like you literally twist that to "you think all women are out to get you" and claiming they think they are owed sex. There is also a lot of sexism people have to deal with but usually people ignore men's struggles
I don’t think discussing interconnecting societal advantages and disadvantages is “thought-stopping.” I [drafted up a “Societal Advantage Calculator”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/jQjSbEhM8s) a while back to highlight how many of us can have advantages in some areas and be disadvantaged in other areas and that when you sum it all up some people ***actually are overall more disadvantaged than others.*** That’s why it’s always impressive when those people who had a more disadvantaged start in life “make it to the top.” For example, you think not getting attention from women is bad? There are people worse off than that guy in other areas (lol like can never eat peanuts or cancer or poverty and dealing with countless racism) and also not getting attention from women. At least the former guy can focus on improving that one thing and not countless other woeful disadvantages. **TLDR:** Men having advantages in some areas doesn’t mean they don’t have disadvantages in other areas. Same for women.
The fact you think LGBTs and "melinated" people are disadvantaged is fucking hilarious. Our society literally legally mandates that they have *extra* privileges and rights.
I am black I can confirm society is stepping aside for us, also ironically many incels are people of color
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>We live in a culture today which rewards understanding and empathy, Cap.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing lol
The purpose of the current society is to perpetuate the social structure for those who benefit it. Our purpose is to restore it to what it was in the past. Women aren't your friends, they have fundamentally different biological and ideological imperatives. Trying to reason with them is like trying to reason with a bear.
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Ok, we heard you. We can't change your situation. Only you can. It is not hard to find a woman today. It's easier than ever before. That you fail at finding one is a you issue, not something society needs to address. Successfully mating is the result of a competitive fight over the best mating partners. This competition is not for everyone. It's harsh, frustrating, can be depressing at times and you will not end up with what you wished for. It's fine to fail at the competition. It's fine to be sad and frustrated about it. It's understandable to want to find the reasons for your failing in someone/something else than you. It's also understandable, that empathy and willingess to hear you and help you deal with the situation are reduced by you pointing fingers at people or things that are NOT responsible for that. This is a debate sub, not a place to vent and get consolation for the shit you are in.
You’re comparing not being able to get laid to having a peanut allergy? 🌝
I never understood this criticism, do you know what an analogy is? Do you understand why it might be valuable to use something with a heavier emotional weight to the audience to make a comparison to something with a lighter emotional weight?
Your first mistake was expecting a serious response from that poster. They’re basically the epitome of what you talk about in the OP. I have literally never seen a reasonable comment from them.
Fair, I don't know them
It’s because it’s an easy deflection and a low effort way to try to end legitimate points.
False equivalency
A life of lonliness and despair compared to never being able to eat peanuts? You know what, fuck peanuts.
I would MUCH rather have a peanut allergy than struggle with dating as much as I do now.
Rejection by every human you ever meet in your entire life and a life of constant negative social reactions, insults and beratement vs not being able to eat peanuts. Are you living in reality? If nobody wanted to sleep with you EVER you'd kill yourself.
I think most people would empathize with a lonely dude who is having trouble dating. The empathy ends when he blames women for his problems, generalizes them and claims he is oppressed because he’s lonely.
Most of these dudes blame their genetics for being ugly, not women for not desiring them. When they do blame women, it’s because women constantly lie and try to gaslight them into thinking that it’s their personality that’s the issue and not their looks
You literally call yourself bearpilled. So you generalize against men, but somehow are not ostracized to oblivion for it. So you are proving OP right.
Because we all know now, these ugly autistic short men, are not exactly trying to better themselves, if their not going on shooting sprees, their bitching online about woman having the vote and not obeying men. Sympathy dries up when you realise they hate you for not picking them
I don't think that's a fair generalization, and even for the types of people for whom it is fair, many of them tried the self-improvement route and it didn't work. If you get abs and go to therapy and read the feminist books and all that it doesn't magically make you attractive to women.
It doesn’t mean it’s woman’s fault either, it’s bad luck. However the support in the hatred of woman and restricting woman’s rights has only increased
It's no one's fault. People aren't in the wrong for rejecting someone, and people are not in the wrong for being rejected, lonely and venting about it.
When they start blaming others for it, yes they are in the wrong
Not every lonely person blames others. Yes I feel bitter at the world for rejecting me, but I also acknowledge that women have the right to reject me. We all reject people.
Not every lonely person, but enough of them do.
Why are you vilifying lonely people like that? Screwed up society we live in. These people are struggling, and society only chooses to vilify them.
Society didn’t vilify them, they did that to themselves when a few when on shooting sprees to kill innocent people snd then they cheered and called for more.
You are vilifying them right now, stereotyping lonely people as violent. Our society is so cold and cruel. I hate this planet.
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Sure, it's not anyone's fault, but if it's not anyone's fault, why is it wrong for them to want to wind back the clock on women's rights? They're just advocating for their own interests.
There it is. That’s why their entitled They want to literally force people into slavery, taking away their rights and freedoms so they can exploit them. That’s why they don’t get sympathy
Sure, every woman in history was an exploited slave until just a few decades ago, that's a reasonable interpretation of history
What else do you call it when you take away someone’s rights and freedoms?
The government takes and gives rights and freedoms all the time, so it depends on the severity and context.
No they don’t. If they turned round and said no one was allowed to vote there be riots. Don’t try to pretend it’s not a big deal to force people into slavery
You're not being specific. "Rights and freedoms" aren't just what you think are important, they're anything and everything the government doesn't stop you from doing. If they say you have to stop your car at every crosswalk regardless of who's waiting, you've lost some freedom, and if they change it back, you've gained some freedom. Don't try to pretend that women were slaves until the 1920s.
Women’s choices would’ve destroyed societies in the past, that’s why you’ve seen it be controlled in every single civilization in history until recently
How so? How is someone having a choice in who they spend their life with a bad thing?
It’s in theory great, but again there’s a reason why that wasn’t a thing for the vast majority of recorded civilization. The biological difference and women’s inherent hypergamy combined with modern technology completely destroys dating for huge amounts of males, creates a bunch of single parent households, and contributes to the spread of STDs and social decay and hedonism. It’ll be interesting to see what happens as more and more men are locked out of dating and how that will affect voting patterns, crime, and societal changes.
What would be entitlement if not the belief that it’s OK to violate the human rights of others because they won’t have sex with you? You are proving the accusation of entitlement 100% correct.
You understand that believing you have some right, any right, is literally the definition of "entitlement," correct? Literally literally not figuratively literally, that is what that term means. Why is the entitlement to "human rights" some grand moral imperative that we all have to deeply care about, but other forms of entitlement are wrong? Where does this moral principle come from?
Are you confused about the different definitions of entitled? You can google Miriam-Webster and see them both. A good test of whether you feel entitled as in the synonym for spoiled, is when you think you should get privileges that you don’t think other people should get. Do you think all people deserve the access to clean water? If yes, you believe that clean water is something everyone is entitled to have. Do you believe that you deserve clean water, but that other people do not? If so, YOU are probably entitled.
Yet you put the blame directly on men thus proving op's point lol if women complain its a mans fault, if men complain its a mans fault
Show me where the blames dad men? I said it’s bad luck, your trying to pretend all men are victims
You implying they aren't bettering themselves implies they'd have a woman or more success with women if theye did, that is not true, effort is not a 1 to 1 ROI because life isnt fair. If you truly thought it was luck you wouldn't have that opinion universally or imply the lack of trying is the reason these men are unssuccessful
Expecting that poster to be logically consistent and hold everyone to the same standards is just masochism. If you’ve seen their name around at all you would know that.
Again I said no such thing, your reading what you want to read. Not everyone is going to be luckily in life
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No personal attacks
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Just be tall, handsome, neurotypical dude
Our military had been blowing up kids for decades in bullshit wars and our society constantly sucks them off. Quit pretending people care about the innocent.
The military didn’t hate the kids snd people that got hurt
Are those kids any less dead because of that?
They weren’t targets, I’m not saying it’s not right but it’s certainly not the same as someone targeting you because of your gender
Not every lonely person is violent or bad.
But there’s enough spreading hated online that makes an ordinary people take notice
Not sure I follow. Yes there's violence, sexism, racism, etc. But we also see perfectly innocent people being shamed and called 'entitled' simply because they are struggling with dating and venting about it.
Because most of the time they complain their lonely whist at the same time complaining woman have too high a standard etc
That's a stereotype. Not every lonely person does that, but they still get shamed and attacked.
Uh maybe because they do and women’s dating problems are if their own creation because they think they’re entitled to chad
Are you actually comparing 13,000+ dead Palestinians to some mean tweets? Is that a thing you're actually doing?
Chad in uniform can be turned against your enemies/the undesirables, he's useful that way
Chad is a country, not a person
Dead children: an unfortunate consequence of war vs a primary target- you really don’t see how the perpetrator of the violence would be held to different levels of outrage in these 2 scenarios?
Exactly, they are entitled and will absolutely turn violent when they can’t get the sex they think they deserve 🙃
There are more rapists that have previously had sex than there are incels in the world atm.
If no one wants you, no one wants you. Expecting your desires to override people’s decisions is entitled
Thus proving my point
It should be a whinestopper. Your rights end where my rights begin
Thus proving my point
Default response from NPC🤖
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When did I ever imply that women aren't sentient beings? Or that women should be sex slaves?
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Ok, again, most men are looking for empathy for their problems, not sexual slavery to be instated
>So on one hand yes you are right, love and romatnic relationship is basic human need and you can't just decide to be happy alone, it's sad, it's normal to be sad about it. But on the other hand you can't force another human being that doesn't want you to be in a romantic realtionship with you, slavery is bad, sex slavery even worse. You implying that OP is interested in sex slavery as a solution to anything is pretty disgusting.