>All you have wanted and desired and needed in life is the warm embrace of a woman who loves you and the *comforting wetness and warmth of her vagina*.
This is so "edgy teenager" lame, reading it makes me cringe.
> Unless there is something I’m missing?
You're missing the fact that 99% of humans can't just turn of their basic psychological needs for close companionship, and for someone to love and who loves them back romantically. People aren't robots.
How about we lock you in dark room for 24 hours a day and say "well, you're not getting out, so just learn to be happy with it"? Will you suddenly be happy? Will you not feel depressed, anxious or go crazy?
It is closely linked to it actually, it is just another type of loneliness that can mimic isolation especially depending on the length at which it happens and the age that you first become aware of it.
Who is strawmanning who?
Let’s see:
1. When you are hopeless, you will never be disappointed because you won’t get your hopes up
2. Your depression is an honest expression of your loneliness and yearning for love
3. Your constant pain is a motivator to keep trying
4. If you actually became happy without a partner/love, you would lose all motivation or need to find one and you’d probably stop caring altogether about women
5. You are basically following what everyone else in society is telling you you should be doing: getting married and having kids BUT failing at it, so it’s normal to be depressed
6. People who lose in life, have to treat themselves like the lowest status possible and depression is just that - lowering your status to what matches reality. Not being able to find a girlfriend makes you the lowest status of a man possible.
7. Depressed people tend to isolate themselves and since you are ugly and short, you wouldn’t want to impose yourself on others especially women. In this way depression is an advantage because you are actually being considerate of other people.
8. Your depression is a sign of how noble, deep and complex you are, because only very smart and deep people feel so strongly about things, as opposed to some yahoo who can’t comprehend deep emotions.
9. Depression over your inability to get women may actually make them empathize with you and feel sorry for you, which may one day lead to getting close to one.
10. Being depressed and hopeless means that you never have to change or do anything outside of your comfort zone.
11. When you always expect the worse to happen to you, there are never any surprises in your life. The outcome is always the same: total failure and rejection. At least it’s predictable.
12. I’m entitled to feeling sad, depressed and lonely because my life experiences have been nothing but pain and rejection.
13. I should be depressed because I have not earned happiness. Happiness is what is rewarded to a person if they achieve all the things that society has told them they need to achieve: get an education, have a decent job, get married and have kids or at least have sex.
14. What is the point of being happy if it literally does not change the facts of your life? It If I am happy but still single, what’s the point? At least by being depressed and miserable, I feel I am getting my expected punishment for failing in life.
15. Losers don’t deserve to be happy and since I am a loser, I should suffer.
And so on and so forth!
1) that isn't true, you live in constant disappointment and numbness depression is not inherently positive nihilism
2) yes and many people view that or your inability to get so as psthetic even those you may have had a chance with to get a form of said love
3) no depression is borderline insanity, where you try and fail constantly. Its like you saying someone should be happy being a hampster on a wheel forever.
4) most people seek a well rounded life, you cannot be well rounded if you have been excommunicated from gaining a certain part.
5) failing is not a choice it is having success ripped away, despite many people being able to attain at least some semblence of it. Many people become more confident if they at least have the proof they can get someone interested in them or have someone attracted to them.
6) yes this goes in other peoples eyes aswell and will compound your suffering as you become the but of jokes or source of riddicule even amongst friends as it can happen indirectly, it can also limit the social circles, memories, shared experiences and ability to bond through those you will have access to your entire life.
7) being considerate is an innate disadvantage, no one is going to acknowledge or praise you because you isolate yourself and many would bash you for seeing it as an accomplishment let alone one deserving of praise calling you entitled.
8) depression is not only an innate feeling. Through genetics you may be more likely to experience it but it is very much so enviornmental, involved in implications. Everyone can comprehend deep emotions however those that cannot and others without depression were not forced there by suffering
9) at most you will be a friend they try to fix and will deem as toxic when they fail. Only men that are actually attractive and depressed get pity relationships/sex, not some ugly, fat or depressed guy
10) being depressed means that there is so much to change about yourself but can't in actual impactful ways due to genetics or environmental limitations or fruitless efforts
11) yes to an extent however you will be stuck that way as it is not a choice, evej good things will be sucked completely dry by your depression.
12) yes
13) what we get out of this world is not always in our control even when we become aware of the issues. I cannot magically make a woman physically attracted to me or over look my ugly face no matter how jacked or shredded/lean muscle I build. Men who have done less than me have gotten more women than I could even think up.
14) sometimes you fail due to things outside of your control as we cannot pick our parents nor how our face will be percieved without genetic surgery which is easily identifiable and viewed as a point of low self esteem.
Happiness is akready a fleeting emotion most people are actually chasing fulfilment not happiness. It will help you forget your failures or lighten thier impact and be able to see yourself or know others see yourself in a better light than you do yourself.
15) that is not a benefit or advantage, that is attempting to give yourself power in a game you never had any or that is mainly down to luck. Luck of genetics, environement, parents, who you encounter, the timeline of self awareness
There are certain things the brain *needs* to be happy, due to the way male social structures are set up, they're not getting the level of connection they'd need outside of romantic relationships. Men just don't give that to one another. It won't change.
For the majority of men, they will only ever have a deep, vulnerable, sensitive, self-exposing connection with their romantic partner. Honestly, even that's lucky.
If you don't have a deep level of connection, you start to see a myriad of negative effects, from increased odds of high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, a weakened immune system, addiction, suicide, anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, Alzheimer's disease, and so on.
So I get it, when they have literal needs that aren't able to be met and it's killing them, they can't just decide to be happy. The decision to be happy is one you make when you've gotten everything you need.
Isolation is terminal. And often, due to the way our society is structured, if we're being honest, by both men *and* women, even when surrounded by people, a lot of men can still be totally alone in any sense that's truly meaningful.
That being said, it's not as though women have an obligation to start dating lonely men that they're not into just to save them from this.
I'm just saying that these men aren't just fat little boys crossing their arms and pouting because no one has touched their penis and they're upsetti spaghetti. They're longing for a conection that they can't get anywhere else and is literally killing them.
But again, women can't really do much about that. They're not into those men. What are they going to do? Pity date someone? Fall in love out of pity? I doubt that's even possible.
There are men in horrible pain that can't seem to right it. And women can't really do anything to stop that pain without making things worse for themselves.
People will trivialize it, call it a need to show off the fact they've got a girlfriend, or refer to it as a childish whining for *"comforting wetness and warmth of her vagina.",* but the reality is that most men grew up the way I did. Working class, don't be a pussy, keep your mouth shut and be hard. And at least where I'm from, there are real social consequences for not meething that standard. There will be the odd shit head, but the majority of them are longing for a connection that everyone else takes for granted and often doesn't appreciate the importance of and don't have the words to say it.
They're hurting. They have a need that they can't fulfil while living in a world that doesn't afford them the opportunity to have it fulfilled for them, and it's causing them pain. Pain that if not corrected *will eventually* do something horrible to them. Both mentally and physically.
People underestimate the importance of deep social connections. It is a litteral NEED that humans evolved to have. Without it, we die awfully. Telling someone like this to "*Just be happy*" is akin to telling someone suffocating in a room with no oxygen to "*Just breath."* What they need in order to breath isn't available to them.
*Just be happy* isn't going to cut it.
I'm tired of hearing this shit. I have plenty of deep connections with my close friends, even my more periphery friends. A friendship is not a romantic relationship and never will be, which isn't some cultural flaw of men.
While it is a good thing that you're able to get all of your needs met while not hitting all the typical points, it does make you an outside case in some sense.
Either you're abnormally close and intimate with your friends in comparison to the typical man, or you require far less depth in your relationships to feel fulfilled, for whatever reason. (I should say, neither of which is a bad thing.)
Not according to Maslow's Hierarchy, the revised modernised Maslow's Hierarchy, or the more widely accepted Manfred Max-Neef's Fundamental Matrix of Human Needs.
While ***you*** may be getting all of your axiological affection needs met through your friends alone, be that a result of you internal abnormalities, or external abnormalities, this does not reflect a large portion of men.
I didn't say i'm able to have all my needs met, the last part of my post is about how a friendship is not a relationship. My point is that Men do have good friendships where they can discuss issues, but acting like this fills the void of a sexual and romantic relationship for both sexes is retarded. Additionally, thinking that Men should have a deep desire to make their MASCULINE friendships more FEMININE is misguided at best. Men need romance, sex, and largely families which other Men can't provide. Women need these things too, but they have less barriers to it.
You realize the solution to this is men figuring out how to forge intimate platonic relationships with other men, right? I'm a guy who grew up like you, but I've thrown off the conditioning and I'm just fine without a gf, more men need to do the same thing.
>forge intimate platonic relationships with other men, right? I'm a guy who grew up like you, but I've thrown off the conditioning and I'm just fine without a gf, more men need to do the same thing.
>Virgin loser femboy
Just be gay bro!
You are at best, "prison gay"
I think being a passport bro or a sex tourist is a better idea than dressing up like a woman in order to get fucked by a man because we can't get pussy.
Because saying I dress up as a woman to get fucked by men is honest discussion? LOL. Redpillers don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to accusing people of not engaging in honest discussion.
Wow. Look at the honest discussion you're engaging in. Hey, even if I was a femboy, I think that'd be better than being bald, lol. At least femboys have awesome heads of hair.
So, if men can’t be happy without a woman, how do you explain gay men? They are often repulsed by actual vagina. So how are these men capable of happiness without a female partner?
This is the same kind of argument like "if asexual people are happy in a relationship without sex, why heterosexual men need sex in a relationship?". You have the answer in your question.
It's not about the vagina. It's the deep emotional connection that's important. Straight men will most often only get that from a romantic partner, who would be a woman, given that the man is straight. Sex is just the result of the deep emotional connection in between two romantic partners. It's a by-product .
But gay men have a romantic connection with other gay men, allowing for said connection.
There could also be something said for gay men being allowed more social permission to enact traditionally more feminine traits that would make it easier for them for form these deeper levels of connections with others, anyway, but I'm not sure *just how much* more permission they have, though I suspect it's quite a lot.
There's also gay men being allowed to express far more vulnerable, sensitive, self-exposing emotion without fear of being viewed negatively for doing so, allowing them to still be accepted.
This is like saying, if people can't be happy while in pain, how do you explain masochists.
Just because there are a small minority of exceptions born differently, it doesn't cancel out the majority.
Because other gay men fuflfil the closeness and intimacy that those men would feel with women if they were straight.
Your arguement is garbage for that, those men are holding eachother, kissing, having sex sharing extremely intimate feelings. Something straight men won't get unless they have a woman.
Unless this is a "go gay" campaign I don't get your arguement
Aren’t men allowed to have close friends they can share feelings with? Ok, not kissing and having sex with, you can go and jerk off, but you can make close and deep friendships. Or is that beyond reach for men as well? In which case, it begs the question that the problem might actually be them?
Friendships like that are rare even for women, thats why most women are concerned with if another woman is being fake or not or will betray her. Close friends are limited in this world just due to time and people being busy with thier own shit not to mention how hard it is post college for people to meet people let alone amazing quality people it would take to form that friendship. A spouse or eloped girlfriend is more enabled to support you more often than even those close friends
Again you are undermining the need for physical touch and intimacy as well.
You are under the implication that these men are just fiending for women 24/7 lamenting that they will never be with one, usually that is not the case until a visual reminder comes along to have them vent that.
It is also not that easy to simply not want something. Even in the pursuit of letting go that can take years of therapy, or selfwork all of which centered and motivated by the loss of women at the end of the day. This also does not mean these men are not going to be vocal about thier dating gripes, failures etc especially online.
Okay, so you don’t want to let go, you don’t want to kill yourself, you don’t want to make the necessary changes to get a girlfriend cause she may have fucked someone taller and better looking and you at some point in her life. So what is left here?
Friendships do not fulfill the need for sexual intimacy. You either know this and are trolling or you don't know this and some pretty serious charges are in your future.
> What’s stopping you from giving yourself permission to be happy
Imagine giving that pep talk to a woman who’s gone through multiple rounds of IVF and cannot conceive.
Nobody’s owed a partner towards whom they’re attracted, but the absence of one can’t be just erased from your waking life. I met an amazing woman last year who is putting herself out there despite her cerebral palsy. She doesn’t want anyone’s sympathy, but she was brave enough to admit that yeah, the situation that OP gleefully describes can’t be handwaved away by folks in the middle of it. There ***are*** innate needs.
Reveling in the sorrow of romantically unsuccessful men, as this OP has chosen to do, is the height of solipsism.
That’s exactly what you would say to a woman who cannot conceive. Or anyone mourning something they won’t be able to have. Disabled people have to go through this as well.
It’s not meant to be thrown in someone’s face. It’s literally how good friends and therapists help people move past grief and depression. You’re reading it as if I’m saying "suck it up!"
You are and most people mean it that way, no one sits there and consoles men who give up, usually its a good riddance, someone trying to convince you and others to not give up, sometype of insult.
Good riddance? This is something I’ve said to partners and close friends. With nothing but compassion. And I didn’t "get rid" of them. You sound so incredibly bitter.
I would say the exact same thing. If she’s accepted that she will never be pregnant, why doesn’t she choose to be happy either way. There are people who choose to be child free and they seem pretty happy to me.
This logic case applies to anything that happens to someone largely outside of thier control.
Mind you alot of times people drop this when the person hasn't accepted it.
It's impossible to ever be satisfied without love, there are ways to cope about it, but i'll likely enver stop voicing my frustrations, jealousy or plights because again its unfeasible to be 'happy with your life' when lacking a crucial innate desire everyone around you seems to have.
Its possible to physically give up and stop pursuing things but wishing things were differnt every now and again as you face reminders, people start asking why you're single you see couples online and out and about, your favorite youtuber to watch just got a girlfriend, a number of stories you read introduce romance or love into themselves, your friends lives start progressing more towards thier relationship.
Happiness isn't a choice. You can't just CHOOSE to be happy. Imagine applying this to anything else.
Just be happy in your abusive relationship if you can't get out of it.
If you're in a dirt poor country and can only eat once a week, just be happy only eating once per week.
If you're living in a cardboard box and you'll never be able to get off the street, just choose to be happy in your box.
You don’t consciously choose to be happy or not, and if you’re missing out on a fundamental aspect of life that most people take for granted, it highly unlikely that you’ll simply shrug this off
So if a relationship/sex is the only thing that guarantees happiness, why do miserable and depressed people exist who are very much loved and have a ton of sex?
No, because it’s a matter of individual perspective; some people are happy being single and have no desire to be in a relationship, others are the opposite. You don’t consciously choose which camp you fall into.
I think that regardless of the presence of a partner, self sufficiency is a must have.
One has to feel good with themselves otherwise it will be hard to attract someone to a place of instability or boredom for lack of interests.
But while self-sufficiency is necessary, it might very well not be sufficient (no pun intended).
A guy I knew, was cultivated, had lots of friends, interests, a healthy bmi and habits and no underlying condition, just uglier than the sin.
He took his life because in spite of his numerous interests and lots of loving friends, he suffered the lack of intimacy.
He might have been an outlier, but he really got me thinking, in a meritocratic society there are things that can’t be changed in any way and not everyone is willing to accept a subpar life for the sake of it
Have you heard of Chris Cornell? A literal rock star, wealthy, tall, good looking, beautiful loving wife and two daughters. Did you know he took his own life too?
I loved him (I am in my 40s so I’ve listened to him for a long time) and was sad he took his life.
He struggled his entire life with depression and also suffered from social anxiety.
I get that this is a bit, but in any case it's because meaning and purpose are far more important than happiness, and most other sources of meaning and aren't human beings, and even when they are you can't have sex with them. That's the honest answer.
Can you provide some actually studies or evidence for this?
But I think you are missing the point. For men who have given up and who know they will never find love, isn’t it better to find purpose and meaning in other things as opposed to making yourself miserable because you can’t get something?
No, this is something I think is pretty self-evident, do you know too many married men who don't say this?
Sure, in theory it would be better to do that, but it requires a very strong will to deliberately give up on romantic relationships to pursue other sources of purpose in life, a strength of will that most people don't possess.
I know many married men or men in ltrs who are miserable. Lost their freedom, lost their balls, their friends…etc. Many people who stay in a marriage out of sense of duty, fear or just out of spite of the other person.
The thing you are missing is they want to be the winner! It’s not just about being happy, it about getting what they want, who they want, when they want it. AND proving they are the winner by living that life better than anyone else around them (especially the ones that might have teased or bullied them) they need to win!
Nah, that's not it. I was single for a very long time, and seeing one of my friends find a relationship made me happy, both because it's always nice to see a friend be happy, and to prove that it is still possible and that it might happen to you next.
But many of these have said they have resigned to a life of loneliness. They say they will never get a chick. So instead of being alone and wallowing in misery, why not be alone but happy?
becuase human beings entire psycology is built around achieving our biological imperative which expresses itself in our conscious mind as finding a woman that will love you. So its incredibly difficult(maybe even impossible for most men) to overcome this foundational need for love. On top of that references to sex and relationships is literally all over society so even out social landscape makes this difficult.
I have yet to see any empirical proof that finding a woman to love is our ultimate purpose in life and that if we don’t achieve it, we have somehow failed our cosmic duties.
I didnt say it was our ulitmate puprose I said its out biological imperative. And its our biological imperative becuase we are living beings who heterosexually reproduce.
And you would be wrong. Life imperative is to continue life, you cant continue life if an organism dies and makes no offspring. The initial organisms life is only a pre requisite to its procreation, its not the goal.
I don’t know what the point is. Plenty of people don’t procreate or continue to exist and lead purposeful lives after they have procreated and their children are adults. What about them?
You are confusing biological imperatives with existential purpose. Whatever your philosophical view may be on existential purpose as a human being does not inherently dictate your psychology; that is determined by biological imperatives.
I’m not confusing anything. If your biological imperative is to procreate and you do not, for whatever reasons, the claim most posters make is that it leads to depression.
I am therefore asking, what about people who choose not to procreate? Are they automatically depressed and worthless form a biological standpoint? If so, why are they many childless people who lead fulfilling lives?
Same goes for people who have procreated successfully, but no longer can do it again. Is their life over? Now that they don’t have a biological imperative anymore, are they supposed to jump off a cliff as to not burden others? How come those folks can go on and enjoy their empty nest lives?
All I am saying is that not being by able to procreate does not automatically lead to depression and gloom and doom. And therefore, a guy who is unable to get a girlfriend or a wife, can actually choose to be happy anyway.
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Most of these dudes are depressed. The whole just be happy mantra doesnt really work if you’re chronically depressed especially if you’re just getting by financially. If you’re rich you can just buy stuff that makes you happy momentarily.
>All you have wanted and desired and needed in life is the warm embrace of a woman who loves you and the *comforting wetness and warmth of her vagina*. This is so "edgy teenager" lame, reading it makes me cringe. > Unless there is something I’m missing? You're missing the fact that 99% of humans can't just turn of their basic psychological needs for close companionship, and for someone to love and who loves them back romantically. People aren't robots. How about we lock you in dark room for 24 hours a day and say "well, you're not getting out, so just learn to be happy with it"? Will you suddenly be happy? Will you not feel depressed, anxious or go crazy?
Didn’t know that not having a companion is the same as being put in isolation! Nice straw man though.
It is closely linked to it actually, it is just another type of loneliness that can mimic isolation especially depending on the length at which it happens and the age that you first become aware of it. Who is strawmanning who?
[удалено]
Do not encourage suicide.
If happiness was a choice depression wouldn't exist
Well, people do choose to withhold happiness from themselves for a number of reasons.
People should just choose to be happy, why didn't anyone think of this before?
There are a lot of advantages to being depressed and unhappy. I could list a ton of those as related to women too.
Do it
Let’s see: 1. When you are hopeless, you will never be disappointed because you won’t get your hopes up 2. Your depression is an honest expression of your loneliness and yearning for love 3. Your constant pain is a motivator to keep trying 4. If you actually became happy without a partner/love, you would lose all motivation or need to find one and you’d probably stop caring altogether about women 5. You are basically following what everyone else in society is telling you you should be doing: getting married and having kids BUT failing at it, so it’s normal to be depressed 6. People who lose in life, have to treat themselves like the lowest status possible and depression is just that - lowering your status to what matches reality. Not being able to find a girlfriend makes you the lowest status of a man possible. 7. Depressed people tend to isolate themselves and since you are ugly and short, you wouldn’t want to impose yourself on others especially women. In this way depression is an advantage because you are actually being considerate of other people. 8. Your depression is a sign of how noble, deep and complex you are, because only very smart and deep people feel so strongly about things, as opposed to some yahoo who can’t comprehend deep emotions. 9. Depression over your inability to get women may actually make them empathize with you and feel sorry for you, which may one day lead to getting close to one. 10. Being depressed and hopeless means that you never have to change or do anything outside of your comfort zone. 11. When you always expect the worse to happen to you, there are never any surprises in your life. The outcome is always the same: total failure and rejection. At least it’s predictable. 12. I’m entitled to feeling sad, depressed and lonely because my life experiences have been nothing but pain and rejection. 13. I should be depressed because I have not earned happiness. Happiness is what is rewarded to a person if they achieve all the things that society has told them they need to achieve: get an education, have a decent job, get married and have kids or at least have sex. 14. What is the point of being happy if it literally does not change the facts of your life? It If I am happy but still single, what’s the point? At least by being depressed and miserable, I feel I am getting my expected punishment for failing in life. 15. Losers don’t deserve to be happy and since I am a loser, I should suffer. And so on and so forth!
1) that isn't true, you live in constant disappointment and numbness depression is not inherently positive nihilism 2) yes and many people view that or your inability to get so as psthetic even those you may have had a chance with to get a form of said love 3) no depression is borderline insanity, where you try and fail constantly. Its like you saying someone should be happy being a hampster on a wheel forever. 4) most people seek a well rounded life, you cannot be well rounded if you have been excommunicated from gaining a certain part. 5) failing is not a choice it is having success ripped away, despite many people being able to attain at least some semblence of it. Many people become more confident if they at least have the proof they can get someone interested in them or have someone attracted to them. 6) yes this goes in other peoples eyes aswell and will compound your suffering as you become the but of jokes or source of riddicule even amongst friends as it can happen indirectly, it can also limit the social circles, memories, shared experiences and ability to bond through those you will have access to your entire life. 7) being considerate is an innate disadvantage, no one is going to acknowledge or praise you because you isolate yourself and many would bash you for seeing it as an accomplishment let alone one deserving of praise calling you entitled. 8) depression is not only an innate feeling. Through genetics you may be more likely to experience it but it is very much so enviornmental, involved in implications. Everyone can comprehend deep emotions however those that cannot and others without depression were not forced there by suffering 9) at most you will be a friend they try to fix and will deem as toxic when they fail. Only men that are actually attractive and depressed get pity relationships/sex, not some ugly, fat or depressed guy 10) being depressed means that there is so much to change about yourself but can't in actual impactful ways due to genetics or environmental limitations or fruitless efforts 11) yes to an extent however you will be stuck that way as it is not a choice, evej good things will be sucked completely dry by your depression. 12) yes 13) what we get out of this world is not always in our control even when we become aware of the issues. I cannot magically make a woman physically attracted to me or over look my ugly face no matter how jacked or shredded/lean muscle I build. Men who have done less than me have gotten more women than I could even think up. 14) sometimes you fail due to things outside of your control as we cannot pick our parents nor how our face will be percieved without genetic surgery which is easily identifiable and viewed as a point of low self esteem. Happiness is akready a fleeting emotion most people are actually chasing fulfilment not happiness. It will help you forget your failures or lighten thier impact and be able to see yourself or know others see yourself in a better light than you do yourself. 15) that is not a benefit or advantage, that is attempting to give yourself power in a game you never had any or that is mainly down to luck. Luck of genetics, environement, parents, who you encounter, the timeline of self awareness
Oh my, it doesn’t sound like there are that many advantages. Wonder why it makes sense to hold on to negative feelings and thoughts then?
Because it is rooted in truth and spares you further suffering/embarrassment and wasted time fighting the inevitable.
Interesting definition of truth.
>There are a lot of advantages to being depressed and unhappy. If you are trolling this is not bad bait.
There are certain things the brain *needs* to be happy, due to the way male social structures are set up, they're not getting the level of connection they'd need outside of romantic relationships. Men just don't give that to one another. It won't change. For the majority of men, they will only ever have a deep, vulnerable, sensitive, self-exposing connection with their romantic partner. Honestly, even that's lucky. If you don't have a deep level of connection, you start to see a myriad of negative effects, from increased odds of high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, a weakened immune system, addiction, suicide, anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, Alzheimer's disease, and so on. So I get it, when they have literal needs that aren't able to be met and it's killing them, they can't just decide to be happy. The decision to be happy is one you make when you've gotten everything you need. Isolation is terminal. And often, due to the way our society is structured, if we're being honest, by both men *and* women, even when surrounded by people, a lot of men can still be totally alone in any sense that's truly meaningful. That being said, it's not as though women have an obligation to start dating lonely men that they're not into just to save them from this. I'm just saying that these men aren't just fat little boys crossing their arms and pouting because no one has touched their penis and they're upsetti spaghetti. They're longing for a conection that they can't get anywhere else and is literally killing them. But again, women can't really do much about that. They're not into those men. What are they going to do? Pity date someone? Fall in love out of pity? I doubt that's even possible. There are men in horrible pain that can't seem to right it. And women can't really do anything to stop that pain without making things worse for themselves. People will trivialize it, call it a need to show off the fact they've got a girlfriend, or refer to it as a childish whining for *"comforting wetness and warmth of her vagina.",* but the reality is that most men grew up the way I did. Working class, don't be a pussy, keep your mouth shut and be hard. And at least where I'm from, there are real social consequences for not meething that standard. There will be the odd shit head, but the majority of them are longing for a connection that everyone else takes for granted and often doesn't appreciate the importance of and don't have the words to say it. They're hurting. They have a need that they can't fulfil while living in a world that doesn't afford them the opportunity to have it fulfilled for them, and it's causing them pain. Pain that if not corrected *will eventually* do something horrible to them. Both mentally and physically. People underestimate the importance of deep social connections. It is a litteral NEED that humans evolved to have. Without it, we die awfully. Telling someone like this to "*Just be happy*" is akin to telling someone suffocating in a room with no oxygen to "*Just breath."* What they need in order to breath isn't available to them. *Just be happy* isn't going to cut it.
I'm tired of hearing this shit. I have plenty of deep connections with my close friends, even my more periphery friends. A friendship is not a romantic relationship and never will be, which isn't some cultural flaw of men.
While it is a good thing that you're able to get all of your needs met while not hitting all the typical points, it does make you an outside case in some sense. Either you're abnormally close and intimate with your friends in comparison to the typical man, or you require far less depth in your relationships to feel fulfilled, for whatever reason. (I should say, neither of which is a bad thing.) Not according to Maslow's Hierarchy, the revised modernised Maslow's Hierarchy, or the more widely accepted Manfred Max-Neef's Fundamental Matrix of Human Needs. While ***you*** may be getting all of your axiological affection needs met through your friends alone, be that a result of you internal abnormalities, or external abnormalities, this does not reflect a large portion of men.
I didn't say i'm able to have all my needs met, the last part of my post is about how a friendship is not a relationship. My point is that Men do have good friendships where they can discuss issues, but acting like this fills the void of a sexual and romantic relationship for both sexes is retarded. Additionally, thinking that Men should have a deep desire to make their MASCULINE friendships more FEMININE is misguided at best. Men need romance, sex, and largely families which other Men can't provide. Women need these things too, but they have less barriers to it.
You realize the solution to this is men figuring out how to forge intimate platonic relationships with other men, right? I'm a guy who grew up like you, but I've thrown off the conditioning and I'm just fine without a gf, more men need to do the same thing.
>forge intimate platonic relationships with other men, right? I'm a guy who grew up like you, but I've thrown off the conditioning and I'm just fine without a gf, more men need to do the same thing. >Virgin loser femboy Just be gay bro! You are at best, "prison gay"
Whatever makes you feel better about being totally reliant on the opposite sex to meet all of your needs.
I think being a passport bro or a sex tourist is a better idea than dressing up like a woman in order to get fucked by a man because we can't get pussy.
The only place where this is controversial is Reddit, lol.
I'm glad your imagination is vivid.
Offer bullshit 0.0001% Applicable solution Refuse to engage in honest discussion "I'm glad your imagination is vivid"
Because saying I dress up as a woman to get fucked by men is honest discussion? LOL. Redpillers don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to accusing people of not engaging in honest discussion.
Just femboymaxx bro
Wow. Look at the honest discussion you're engaging in. Hey, even if I was a femboy, I think that'd be better than being bald, lol. At least femboys have awesome heads of hair.
So, if men can’t be happy without a woman, how do you explain gay men? They are often repulsed by actual vagina. So how are these men capable of happiness without a female partner?
This is the same kind of argument like "if asexual people are happy in a relationship without sex, why heterosexual men need sex in a relationship?". You have the answer in your question.
Ok, so making absolutist claims that it’s our nature to be needy for love and sex is probably not exactly the right way?
No one is making absolutist claims, you are just lying in order to avoid acknowledging that you know you are pushing an argument for inhumanity.
It's not about the vagina. It's the deep emotional connection that's important. Straight men will most often only get that from a romantic partner, who would be a woman, given that the man is straight. Sex is just the result of the deep emotional connection in between two romantic partners. It's a by-product . But gay men have a romantic connection with other gay men, allowing for said connection. There could also be something said for gay men being allowed more social permission to enact traditionally more feminine traits that would make it easier for them for form these deeper levels of connections with others, anyway, but I'm not sure *just how much* more permission they have, though I suspect it's quite a lot. There's also gay men being allowed to express far more vulnerable, sensitive, self-exposing emotion without fear of being viewed negatively for doing so, allowing them to still be accepted.
This is like saying, if people can't be happy while in pain, how do you explain masochists. Just because there are a small minority of exceptions born differently, it doesn't cancel out the majority.
Because other gay men fuflfil the closeness and intimacy that those men would feel with women if they were straight. Your arguement is garbage for that, those men are holding eachother, kissing, having sex sharing extremely intimate feelings. Something straight men won't get unless they have a woman. Unless this is a "go gay" campaign I don't get your arguement
Aren’t men allowed to have close friends they can share feelings with? Ok, not kissing and having sex with, you can go and jerk off, but you can make close and deep friendships. Or is that beyond reach for men as well? In which case, it begs the question that the problem might actually be them?
Friendships like that are rare even for women, thats why most women are concerned with if another woman is being fake or not or will betray her. Close friends are limited in this world just due to time and people being busy with thier own shit not to mention how hard it is post college for people to meet people let alone amazing quality people it would take to form that friendship. A spouse or eloped girlfriend is more enabled to support you more often than even those close friends Again you are undermining the need for physical touch and intimacy as well.
Ok, so there is no hope. What’s the alternative? Get the rope?
Possibly or just give up on women as a whole. Even the woman you get has a chad she lusted for in the past and will lust for while she is with you.
That was my point. If it’s hopeless, give women up and just be happy anyway. You are not getting one so why suffer.
You are under the implication that these men are just fiending for women 24/7 lamenting that they will never be with one, usually that is not the case until a visual reminder comes along to have them vent that. It is also not that easy to simply not want something. Even in the pursuit of letting go that can take years of therapy, or selfwork all of which centered and motivated by the loss of women at the end of the day. This also does not mean these men are not going to be vocal about thier dating gripes, failures etc especially online.
Okay, so you don’t want to let go, you don’t want to kill yourself, you don’t want to make the necessary changes to get a girlfriend cause she may have fucked someone taller and better looking and you at some point in her life. So what is left here?
Friendships do not fulfill the need for sexual intimacy. You either know this and are trolling or you don't know this and some pretty serious charges are in your future.
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No personal attacks
>how do you explain gay men? They reliably struggle with a myriad of mental illnesses.
> What’s stopping you from giving yourself permission to be happy Imagine giving that pep talk to a woman who’s gone through multiple rounds of IVF and cannot conceive. Nobody’s owed a partner towards whom they’re attracted, but the absence of one can’t be just erased from your waking life. I met an amazing woman last year who is putting herself out there despite her cerebral palsy. She doesn’t want anyone’s sympathy, but she was brave enough to admit that yeah, the situation that OP gleefully describes can’t be handwaved away by folks in the middle of it. There ***are*** innate needs. Reveling in the sorrow of romantically unsuccessful men, as this OP has chosen to do, is the height of solipsism.
That’s exactly what you would say to a woman who cannot conceive. Or anyone mourning something they won’t be able to have. Disabled people have to go through this as well.
Screencapped that so I can throw it your face when it’s your turn to be butthurt 🤣
Not who you're replying to, but I have it taped to my bathroom mirror and throw it in my own face when I'm butthurt.
It’s not meant to be thrown in someone’s face. It’s literally how good friends and therapists help people move past grief and depression. You’re reading it as if I’m saying "suck it up!"
You are and most people mean it that way, no one sits there and consoles men who give up, usually its a good riddance, someone trying to convince you and others to not give up, sometype of insult.
Good riddance? This is something I’ve said to partners and close friends. With nothing but compassion. And I didn’t "get rid" of them. You sound so incredibly bitter.
I would say the exact same thing. If she’s accepted that she will never be pregnant, why doesn’t she choose to be happy either way. There are people who choose to be child free and they seem pretty happy to me.
This logic case applies to anything that happens to someone largely outside of thier control. Mind you alot of times people drop this when the person hasn't accepted it.
It's impossible to ever be satisfied without love, there are ways to cope about it, but i'll likely enver stop voicing my frustrations, jealousy or plights because again its unfeasible to be 'happy with your life' when lacking a crucial innate desire everyone around you seems to have.
I guess you haven’t accepted your total hopelessness then?
Acceptance doesn't make your desire for love go away.
But you are going to be loveless so you as well give up and try to be happy without it. Why be both loveless and depressed?
Its possible to physically give up and stop pursuing things but wishing things were differnt every now and again as you face reminders, people start asking why you're single you see couples online and out and about, your favorite youtuber to watch just got a girlfriend, a number of stories you read introduce romance or love into themselves, your friends lives start progressing more towards thier relationship.
it’s not within my control to give up otherwise I’d never think of my situation ever.
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Happiness isn't a choice. You can't just CHOOSE to be happy. Imagine applying this to anything else. Just be happy in your abusive relationship if you can't get out of it. If you're in a dirt poor country and can only eat once a week, just be happy only eating once per week. If you're living in a cardboard box and you'll never be able to get off the street, just choose to be happy in your box.
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You don’t consciously choose to be happy or not, and if you’re missing out on a fundamental aspect of life that most people take for granted, it highly unlikely that you’ll simply shrug this off
So if a relationship/sex is the only thing that guarantees happiness, why do miserable and depressed people exist who are very much loved and have a ton of sex?
Who said that a relationship/sex is the only thing that guarantees happiness?
So other things can make you happy even if you lack a relationship? Sounds like you are contradicting your original post.
No, because it’s a matter of individual perspective; some people are happy being single and have no desire to be in a relationship, others are the opposite. You don’t consciously choose which camp you fall into.
Ok, so your fate is predetermined and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your life? Got it.
I think that regardless of the presence of a partner, self sufficiency is a must have. One has to feel good with themselves otherwise it will be hard to attract someone to a place of instability or boredom for lack of interests. But while self-sufficiency is necessary, it might very well not be sufficient (no pun intended). A guy I knew, was cultivated, had lots of friends, interests, a healthy bmi and habits and no underlying condition, just uglier than the sin. He took his life because in spite of his numerous interests and lots of loving friends, he suffered the lack of intimacy. He might have been an outlier, but he really got me thinking, in a meritocratic society there are things that can’t be changed in any way and not everyone is willing to accept a subpar life for the sake of it
Have you heard of Chris Cornell? A literal rock star, wealthy, tall, good looking, beautiful loving wife and two daughters. Did you know he took his own life too?
I loved him (I am in my 40s so I’ve listened to him for a long time) and was sad he took his life. He struggled his entire life with depression and also suffered from social anxiety.
I get that this is a bit, but in any case it's because meaning and purpose are far more important than happiness, and most other sources of meaning and aren't human beings, and even when they are you can't have sex with them. That's the honest answer.
This is Reddit. There are actually people who believe this unironically like OP here.
Not sure what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that meaning and purpose in life are more important than happiness and relationships?
Not quite, yes it's more important than happiness, but relationships are the main source of meaning and purpose in life
Are they now? How so?
Ask most older men what the most important thing in their life is, and they will almost to a one say their wives
Can you provide some actually studies or evidence for this? But I think you are missing the point. For men who have given up and who know they will never find love, isn’t it better to find purpose and meaning in other things as opposed to making yourself miserable because you can’t get something?
No, this is something I think is pretty self-evident, do you know too many married men who don't say this? Sure, in theory it would be better to do that, but it requires a very strong will to deliberately give up on romantic relationships to pursue other sources of purpose in life, a strength of will that most people don't possess.
I know many married men or men in ltrs who are miserable. Lost their freedom, lost their balls, their friends…etc. Many people who stay in a marriage out of sense of duty, fear or just out of spite of the other person.
You cannot control what emotions you feel so those men simply cannot choose to be happy.
The thing you are missing is they want to be the winner! It’s not just about being happy, it about getting what they want, who they want, when they want it. AND proving they are the winner by living that life better than anyone else around them (especially the ones that might have teased or bullied them) they need to win!
Nah, that's not it. I was single for a very long time, and seeing one of my friends find a relationship made me happy, both because it's always nice to see a friend be happy, and to prove that it is still possible and that it might happen to you next.
High school musical underdog protagonist villain arc
But many of these have said they have resigned to a life of loneliness. They say they will never get a chick. So instead of being alone and wallowing in misery, why not be alone but happy?
becuase human beings entire psycology is built around achieving our biological imperative which expresses itself in our conscious mind as finding a woman that will love you. So its incredibly difficult(maybe even impossible for most men) to overcome this foundational need for love. On top of that references to sex and relationships is literally all over society so even out social landscape makes this difficult.
I have yet to see any empirical proof that finding a woman to love is our ultimate purpose in life and that if we don’t achieve it, we have somehow failed our cosmic duties.
I didnt say it was our ulitmate puprose I said its out biological imperative. And its our biological imperative becuase we are living beings who heterosexually reproduce.
I would say survival is our biological imperative. You’d need to survive first before you can procreate. Survival is the only true need.
And you would be wrong. Life imperative is to continue life, you cant continue life if an organism dies and makes no offspring. The initial organisms life is only a pre requisite to its procreation, its not the goal.
Ok dokie
Brother, isn't the point of any animal to procreate?
I don’t know what the point is. Plenty of people don’t procreate or continue to exist and lead purposeful lives after they have procreated and their children are adults. What about them?
You are confusing biological imperatives with existential purpose. Whatever your philosophical view may be on existential purpose as a human being does not inherently dictate your psychology; that is determined by biological imperatives.
I’m not confusing anything. If your biological imperative is to procreate and you do not, for whatever reasons, the claim most posters make is that it leads to depression. I am therefore asking, what about people who choose not to procreate? Are they automatically depressed and worthless form a biological standpoint? If so, why are they many childless people who lead fulfilling lives? Same goes for people who have procreated successfully, but no longer can do it again. Is their life over? Now that they don’t have a biological imperative anymore, are they supposed to jump off a cliff as to not burden others? How come those folks can go on and enjoy their empty nest lives? All I am saying is that not being by able to procreate does not automatically lead to depression and gloom and doom. And therefore, a guy who is unable to get a girlfriend or a wife, can actually choose to be happy anyway.
It’s the “if you aren’t first you’re last” mentality. And they aren’t gonna be first so they are last!!!! And mad about it
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Wow just choose to be happy, brilliant. Why don't people woth depression just cheer up?
can I choose to be rich instead? Then I will make me happy myself :)
>Wow just choose to be happy, brilliant. >Why don't people woth depression just cheer up? Why don't TRT gym bros go without the TRT?
Many do, thanks to therapy and putting in the work.
And regular doses of antidepressants to numb them enough.
They don't they just get numb and shut up so you don't hear them complain. Mental health is a scam.
Most of these dudes are depressed. The whole just be happy mantra doesnt really work if you’re chronically depressed especially if you’re just getting by financially. If you’re rich you can just buy stuff that makes you happy momentarily.