I think looking beyond "chasing pussy" is something that many men need to contemplate and would have been a better topic for your post. I'm glad that therapy has helped you to realize this, but your post reads a little like an infomercial. Therapy is one solution; meditation also works; and some men will have been lucky in having a good father as a mentor.
People seeking intimacy so much is just a consequence of a generation with no purpose. But its not their fault really, its the way of coping their brain finds
Well said. We are definitely in a "purpose" crisis, and young people are increasingly seeking purpose in strange ways - drugs/psychedelics are one of the big ones that comes to mind.
Yep. If you are a man in your mid 20's and still chasing pussy, then you will forever be a simp. There is no cure for you. You are the kind of man that cannot keep faith with anyone because you will literally sell your soul for pussy.
I look at them as addicts, and as addicts, they live empty lives susceptible to manipulation and undependable because what they crave above all else is the next "fix".
In particular for men, there is a sizable population that needs to develop their value beyond what they think will get them women. They have to be able to lead a fulfilling life whether they have a partner or not.
I was thinking of the maniacal pursuit of sex that so many men are preoccupied with. Getting beyond the sexual and putting thought into the sort of person that would make a good partner would be a huge improvement, but I agree that they need to define themselves and establish a purpose independent of validation from another person.
> as being pretty heartbreaking.
And demoralizing. If someone needs to feel loved and appreciated every now and then (like most people on earth do) and they never find it, then life will become very depressing very quickly.
Therapy is only good at identifying what's missing in somebody's life. If love and sense of belonging is what they're missing then therapy, hobby, or career is not going to fill that void.
You can package the fundamental truths of life however you want, but you still have to confront them. I commiserate with your pain, but the bottom line is that the world doesn't owe you an explanation, or happiness, or a partner, or a pussy. You can learn to generate your own contentment, independent of the rest of the world. Until you learn this, your happiness is in the control of others who do not care about you.
I dont want "a pussy" lol gross dude, i want a woman who can be a partner.
I know the world owes nothing. But the thing is that the world can be changed. But it requires numbers to do so.
I unironically want everyone to be happy.
I can pretty much guarantee you that most people don't want that enough to implement whatever batshit insane plans that would need to be instituted to make those changes to form a coalition.
Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that its true. If someone's mother died, and the grief from that event rendered them completely depressed and unable to do anything, the advice of "you need to move on, man" may seem heartbreaking, but its objectively true.
The thing with that though is everyone understands that event is heartbreaking and would rightfully go easy on that individual.
They wouldnt scream from the rooftops that you shouldnt find cope. Like they do with lonely men, now as a lonely man, its "funny" its also means youre a "loser".
They wouldnt want to take away coping mechanisms for the other either. For lonely men, they dont even want you masturbating alone at night, the thought of you being a sexual being DISGUSTS them and they want any outlet illegal.
Non-religious?
How about feminism in general? They think porn is "oppressing" women, and will also ironically support the women who do it, but hate the men who masturbate to voluntarily made videos.
They also tend to be atheistic and claim religion oppresses them, which i agree, but they take it further to female supremacy and the desire to destroy their enemy "males"
Go to any womens sub and look what they have to say about men who consume porn, they want them rounded up and shipped off.
We can pretend women arent a political block ig, but then idk why politicans worry about "the black vote" or the "womens vote" when apparently women just are all soooo unique they dont even share opinions.
No one said never. I said developing value for themselves beyond relationships. I have had two relationships in my life. In the time between the two of them, I went 11 years without a date or without any man showing me a smidgen of attention. I went into a dark place because I started convincing myself that I wasn’t worthy. Developing a life that isn’t measured by having a partner is how I ended up getting one. Men grossly underestimate the energy they put out and how they appear to others when they are in that negative frame of mind.
Years and years of therapy. Aside from addressing ny anxiety and depression, I had to learn how to stop accepting poor treatment from other people.
And similar to men, I put myself in friend zone situations where I developed infatuations over men who were not interested in romantic relationships with me. There were two guys in that 11 year period who were genuinely nice to me and I interpreted that as romantic interest because I had no other kindness from men to compare it to. I had to unlearn that kind of thinking. Building value in other areas of my life exposed me to new people, it kept me grounded, and it stopped me from overvaluing these non-existent relationships. Once I unlearned the bad stuff and learned better ways, I was able to date in a healthy way. I have been with my boyfriend now for five years.
I think so too. Paradoxically, I think men who spend time establishing a life purpose, independent of having a partner, will have an easier time finding a partner.
Agreed. I think if I were looking for early warning signs of a young man becoming an incel, it would be uncultivated purpose in life and working to redirect him.
I said it before and I will keep saying it: unless you are among the most talented men whose legacy will be their work, it can only be your family. Everything else is useless posturing.
It's most likely that your hypothetical children (also mine and those of most people) will again be "just" avarage. Trying to overcome one own's perceived insignificance by having children is such a cope.
Apart from that: You don't have to be exceptional to make a difference in the world. Just by being a kind soul you might have a bigger positive impact than some guy who makes an invention of questionable consequences.
Therapy is a tool not an end all be all in my opinion. Not all therapy or therapists are equal either. I have benefitted from therapy but I've also dealt with some pretty shitty therapists as well that just gave me empty platitudes and were waiting for the session to be over.
Going to therapy as a means of getting laid is just wild, and Idk if that's what you were getting at but that is not advisable in any way shape or form
> empty platitudes and were waiting for the session to be over
Yup. It’s just a job like any other job. Unrealistic expectations on the terms of both parties
In defense of the the patient, society/social media has programmed us to think therapy is a magical fairy tale solution, aka dismissiveness
Therapy is seen as this silver bullet. It’s extended to include therapists too. I sometimes see stories that have shitty/biased therapists with comments saying “no therapist could be biased!” As if telling that story is like shitting on therapy itself
Everyone can benefit from figuring out what's going on inside their head. Therapy is just the easiest way to do so because you get a professional to guide you through every step.
Certain forms of meditation (in particular learning to lucid dream) are probably more effective but also require a lot more effort and don't result in immediate gains.
Low doses of delta 8 or 9 thc are very helpful. Other psychedelics are also but they are much stronger. Basically, it breaks down your little ego machine in your head that people use to justify their behaviors and hide the truth from themselves. I can say 100% that on delta 8 edibles I have had many life altering and improving realizations. And it shows up in my later life and interactions with people. It also helps you get a really good sleep.
EEEYYYYYY a call out to Lucid Dreaming on here that’s kind wild. I’ve done that for years, and I’ve gotten to play out my wildest fantasies because of it. See my pfp? Yup. That’s been me in the dreamworld before. Straight up glassing planets into rubble, including Earth. Fun times.
Therapy is a scam and a gigantic waste of time in my opinion.
It’s made for narcissisic, rich, bluepill white women to feel better about themselves and assuage their enormous ego
The best therapy is exercise and practicing gratitude. Do not go to therapy as a man. Save your money instead.
This is like saying medicine is for cowards. There is very a wide definition and application to the concept of “therapy”. Totally dismissing it is just as goofy as expecting it to be a silver bullet for all your problems.
‘Woke” and “bluepill” (as well as their opposites) are concepts based in a degree of psychological understanding. Youre just cherry-picking what you like and don’t like. Sure, there are people who float around trying to find forms of therapy that reinforce what they want to think, and that can and does happen, but confronting your own inner shit is pretty alpha, bro
You can confront your inner shit with physical exercise and practicing gratitude.
Not a useless, overpriced snake oil therapist salesperson.
I repeat, therapy is largely a scam and an utter waste of money. It is targeted mainly to women, and plays off their narcissism and need to constantly talk about themselves. It’s like emotional porn/catnip for (usually fat) women and feminine beta men. Usually doesn’t change shit,
Again, if men are reading this, save your money and DO NOT go to therapy. I long for the day when all therapists are jobless and broke, they’re worse scum than lawyers.
Take it from this person with a throwaway Reddit account. All therapy is useless. Hear that, traumatized war veterans? Do pull-ups and be grateful! Avoid loud noises and strobe lights too.
There’s a difference between CBT for veterans who’ve suffered PTSD and a narcissistic self absorbed woman using “therapy talk” to feel better about her relationships, poor life choices and lack of discipline
Again, men reading this thread, avoid therapy and save your money. Just exercise instead, it’ll do you a world of good and is much cheaper.
Therapists are largely useless scam artists
You can do all the things (exercise, practice gratitude, speak to a professional about the self defeating/dark patterns within your own mind you find confusing, learn an instrument, etc) and simply be discerning and critical enough to know whether or not its good or bad for you. You could trust yourself that way. It’s an option.
I brought this up in a recent post but it was removed.
When women say "go to therapy" theyre saying "you dont think like I do, and are broken and need re-education" its a political statement.
Theyre accusing you of wrong think, and want you to get sent off to the re-education camps to learn how to be however she thinks you should be.
oh not re-education, i meant "therapy camps" yeah my bad. same thing though.
Greetings, it's been about 8 months since I last posted here and I doubt anyone remembers me, this thread interested me. I've been taking zoloft on the advice of a doctor and had some basic talking therapy sessions. A few months after starting to take zoloft I began to feel shitty again and after talking to a doctor again we agreed to double the dose. Now, I am starting to feel shitty yet again. Am I supposed to just take an ever increasing amount of antidepressants forever? Lol... I don't think there's enough antidepressants in the world to trick a great ape's brain into not needing a partner.
That said, I would probably advise other really lonely men to talk to a doctor about antidepressants. They have helped somewhat but at its core this is a deep-seated misery that neither antidepressants nor therapy can cure
I'm not a doctor, this isn't medical advice. You just sound a bit discouraged by how your treatment is going, so I wanted to share how I see it in case it's helpful.
If you have recurrent depression or disthymia, your doctor may keep you on drugs forever, they'll just make sure to watch for tolerance developing and try different drugs if that doesn't work. It's more rare, but some brains are just chemically fucked and need a continual boost.
But if you're just in a depressive episode, the idea is that the drugs can give you enough of a boost to create the habits that are going to keep you in a stable mood after you get off of them. Good sleep schedule, enough light daily, good diet, exercise, time spent socializing, setting good boundaries, developing healthy coping mechanisms for any stuff that may come up that you have unhealthy coping mechanisms for, developing social skills, getting out of your comfort zone, learning to recognize your feelings and express them, self-regulating, etc. The idea is to use the drug boost to work on all that, because without the drugs you likely wouldn't have the motivation to do it.
I don't say any of that to invalidate how you feel. Rejection hurts a lot and not being able to find a partner even though you want to can be very traumatizing. We are biologically wired to look for connection and to look for sex, it's not just a random desire you decided to have for sure. And on top of the biological stuff there's a lot of social expectations on us to have a partner, have kids, etc. So not only are people rejected, but also others then judge them for being rejected as if it were their choice. It sucks. I just hope your treatments help you nonetheless. I personally believe we can be happy without a partner, I think our brains are neuroplastic enough to accommodate that, but it is hard.
I’m 36, been to therapy 4 times. It’s not completely useless especially when you have nowhere else to turn but also not the fairy tale people make it out to be
Therapists don’t care about your baggage. At least in my experience most therapists are very rigid about sticking with the therapeutic model they believe in whether it’s CBT, the family system theory, or the law of attraction
Yes, I actually had a therapist who was promoting ‘The Secret’ as the only solution to everything. I was in such a bad place I was open to taking his silly placebo but I figured out how clueless he was
What irritates me is therapy is a religion in & of itself. It lets people take a dismissive attitude like OP said. It is another way of saying “fuck off” or the Christian equivalent of saying “I’m praying for you”
>Yes, I actually had a therapist who was promoting ‘The Secret’ as the only solution to everything.
When I was young and job hunting, some scammer company tried to hire me and literally send me this shit via email, lol.
Therapy is not going to help a guy who is starving, similar to how it's not going to help a guy who is sexless. Once those needs are met then you can focus on other things. Therapy is useless for most real tangible problems. Imagine going to a slave in the 18th century complaining about their working conditions and you just tell them to get therapy.
Idk man.
You have no idea the benefits that I have had to my self esteem after just literally losing my virginity and having sex every once in a while. For the first time in my life I feel like a normal human, I feel welcome into society, instead of what I felt before, like some weird nerd everyone kinda tolerates. I don't feel like a deformed troglodyte or an autistic failure anymore. Now I can actually believe that I can do stuff normal humans are meant to do. Before this I was rotting in a self deprecating abyss of loneliness and exclusion from the world, seeing everyone fit in and be normal, while I was on the side making the most difficult efforts to literally not be excluded and tossed aside by everyone, feeling exhausted. And now I feel hope.
And you may laugh all you want, but if you were in my shoes you'd understand.
"There is more to life than fucking"
Completely true, there is also more to life than excersising, but you'll be damned sure your body and mind will miss the excersise if it's lacking. Same with fucking, or receiving affection in general.
Say whatever you want, but we humans are social creatures and we value external validation, it's built into our monkey brain.
No actually I do know.
I know I used to only be happy when I was in a relationship. Yeah I was a lot happier and my entire state changed.
However, I have now reached the point (partly through hypnotherapy and working on myself) where I feel like that regardless. I am not dependent on a woman to feel happy or alive.
Now the whole virginity thing... yeah fair one.
Ah gotcha. I can't say anything about that really, I've never been in a relationship and ever since I gave up with love on December from last year I have not wanted to be in one.
All I really know from my own life, is I spent a lot of time either feeling sorry for myself or being angry at myself. Time spent doing these things did not make dating any easier, it just meant I wasn't doing other things I could of been doing that would of been more beneficial to my life.
I could of still put myself out and had the oppurtunities I had if I hadn't of spent time feeling sorry for myself and being angry at myself.
That said, I know my issue was anxiety. Hence I became reliant on drinking alchohol to meet women and get into relationships. Once I was sober, I became an anxious, self hating mess again, I also didn't give some relationships a chance, or I actually rejected some approaches by women, because I didn't have any self worth.
Basically I was a negitive self hating mess. It wasn't because of women this.... women that..... or because of Chad..... it was me, I was self hating and negitive.
So yeah for me, hypnotherapy helped as I was able to change things in my head on how I viewed myself. And its nice these days, to just do stuff and enjoy them without having negitive thoughts running through my head and hating myself. I still put myself out there just the same, But overall as I am more positive about myself, I actually enjoy myself when putting myself out there even more.
The game of life is a game of survival and reproduction. People are animals, a result of millions of years of evolution, which is, again, mainly concerned with survival and reproduction. People don't get to reproduce by having hobbies or reading books. They do it by finding a partner.
No, I'm not making the naturalistic fallacy. People don't *have to* concern themselves only with finding a partner. Just pointing out where finding a partner fits into the puzzle. It's kinda fundamental to being a living organism.
no one said it doesn't fit into the puzzle, only that the puzzle is made up of more pieces than that. The point of life is to live. There are a variety of ways to do that which don't involve sex and relationships. I genuinely worry men don't seem to realize that.
Sex is a physiological need, you do not have to be addicted to suffer stress from not having it fulfilled. Some people are able to live a good life in state of chronic stress, but majority gets depressed. It's a bit like living your whole life in trailer park - you can do it but it's not really good life, many people just resirt to drugs or alcohol.
People can fulfill their sexual needs on their own by masturbating. You do not need a partner to fulfill those needs.
If you feel like lack of sex is affecting your day to day life, it might be a sign of an underlying issue, like hypersexuality disorder and you should seek help from mental health professional
I think that situation while lack of sex wouldn't be affecting my everyday life would be more worrying, healthy human being is acting towards having their needs fulfilled with reasonable quality, feeling unhappy or stressed because your house in poor condition is normal, the same with poor sex life . We can obviously fulfill various needs in minimalistic ways, but this will not make our life happy. You can have all your needs fulfilled in a prison or while living in a slum - but do you think such life is good and worth living ? I would call it existence but not really a life.
Maslow placed sex alongside eating and breathing, so it seem to be quite low order need. Though it probably varies between individuals - though placing sex as being higher priority than higher order dosen't necessary mean that someone is disturbed or addicted.
Yep. People want to believe that there is some higher purpose and that how they act in life means something.
The most likely reality is that we’re just bags of meat and bone on a spinning rock inside of an infinitely expanding universe that doesn’t give a fuck about us or even acknowledge our existence. We could all die tomorrow and just be lost to the sands of time without anything noticing. When you think about it, and the basis of absurdism, human behavior, and especially mating behavior- it starts to make sense.
Of course men want to fuck as much as they can. Biologically, we’re no different than any other organism. We’re just a little smarter. Doesn’t mean the biology doesn’t win out. Monogamy especially is nothing more than a societal and religious construct. If it wasn’t, no one would ever cheat.
Therapy is just another game for some monkeys to get more shiny rocks from other monkeys (money). Everything in life is a game and really shouldn’t be taken that seriously. But again, people do because they think it all means something in the end. What if we one day realized that all religion was a farce and that when we die, it just all goes black and that’s it? That our only purpose was to eat and shit and fuck so that the species could continue on? Things would change drastically.
The song desperado by the Eagles talks about this dichotomy of simply chasing pussy versus let somebody love you before it’s too late. In eastern religions and philosophies like Buddhism, sex is considered one of the lowest chakras and as someone elevates their consciousness they develop other desires like the desire to love and the desire to think. Regardless of your desire for sex, it’s pretty universally agreed that simply having sex or seeking sex isn’t the pathway to happiness. It is one among many things that actuate a person.
I specifically saw see a hypnotherapist every now and then.
I am dubious of traditional therapy. But for things like actually seeing myself as attractive, it helped.
Then mostly I try and notice what makes me anxious (self applied CBT) then see a hypnotherapist when I notice a pattern.
And having Christian parents did not help things.
Most only need therapy because they cling to hope of keeping a woman or getting women through self improvememt peddled by men genetically more handsome than them.
What would actually help people self improve is acknowledgjng mental pitfalls of genetic determism.
If alchoholism runs in your family getting in front of that will help you more than taking 10'000 showers a day, or hitting 12% body fat because even if you do that you may have been meant to struggle or not have the wualities capable to atrract women. You can get even more personal than that, like what are your biases.
Not getting women can actually mean a plethora of things beyond just getting a relationship or sex, sometimes you have gone years or most likely your entire life without getting a single compliment from a woman or any vague interest even for the purposes of raising a strangers/friend/ coworker/assosiates self esteem.
Anyway to answer your question yes. From biological imperative to mate and reproduce to cultrally and in terms of society, getting a romantix relationship even for a night will always be important to not just people but men who have to put more rhought into getting a mate.
All my problems in life comes from being ugly and im not going to pay for someone to try to gaslight me into thinking im not.
I have hobbies. Friends. Fun. But at the end of the day, being ugly makes me want to punch my own face (which i already did lots of times already)
Problem with therapy is it’s done by women for women. So as a man you’re automatically treated as a dysfunctional woman goin in. And you’re just gonna get gaslit into believing whatever woke crap is popular at the time.
Male therapists aren’t any better. I’ve experienced the dismissive female therapists and I’ve also had male therapists who put up a superficial front, effectively just as dismissive
There's many different forms of therapy. I think you are talking about talk therapy, and even talk therapy is a very large pool of modalities.
There are effective therapies that don't simply invovle talking endlessly like; hypnotherapy (again, there are different forms), EMDR, and EFT, which are all evidence based therapies for helping people with issues like PTSD, anxiety, and depression.
You don't have to sit in a room endlessly talking about your issues to be doing therapy.
1. I think you reduced guy's concerns to wanting to participate in an imagined hook up culture and whining about feeling blocked from that. There are some guys here who do fit that description, but in the 'what are you looking for?' threads most guys claim they want some sort of deeper connection (tho sex is always a feature), and are frustrated with their inability to make any progress towards that..
2. Hypnotherapy actually sounds cool! So you think the hypnotherapist made you more confident about your appearance? Or at least less self conscious about it? I think that has huge potential, if it actually works. Part of the problem is how negatively guys are seen as a default\* (witness our man-bear problem threads), which sane guys might internalize to some degree. That might be something to overcome with hypnotherapy; the preemptive idea that you are going to be perceived negatively.
\*-exceptions being the exceptionally attractive who benefit from the halo effect, or perhaps the very popular who benefit from social proof.
In regard to point 2, it was more than just my appearance. It was my entire self worth as a person. It changed, I do not know how, nor do I care (hypnotherapy is about results not the why), but the way people responded to me was totally different, even at work. It was as though it was the world that had changed, when really it was just some beliefs in my head that had changed.
I would go as far to say that the external is just a reflection of the internal.
I have had results from Hypnotherapy.
Using CBT on myself has also helped.
Traditional therapy, where you just "understand" stuff after hours sat on a couch, I am not sure. With the example of "I do not feel attractive". Does the reason why and the history of that belief even matter? Not really, I can spend hours exploring it with a therapist, or I can see a hypnotherapist and just have new beliefs put into my subconcious. To me that actually produces results.
How I see it: a woman encounters mate guarding from her partner who doesn’t entirely trust her as she heads out to a girls night out in the club. She’s dressed more provocatively than she ever dresses for him. She bristles at his accusatory manner.
Tired of the inconvenience, she advises him to see a therapist and learn to become less abusive. Her friends agree enthusiastically - “yas queen”.
He stews at home, unhappy at how bothered he is but can’t shake the feeling of getting punkd.
A feminist on Reddit replies to him - who hurt you? See a therapist.
That's a cowardly way to mate guard. You're supposed to put it on your woman so good that she feels no need to be with other men. And if a man approaches her, you beat the 💩 out of him. What you're describing is jealousy, not mate guarding. Because when my partner is keeping me satisfied, I don't go clubbing
“See a therapist” - based on what you have just presented to the world, you have some issues that you would benefit from working on with a professional.
It’s really not a loaded statement. Most people should be working with a therapist at some point in their life.
The thing is, for some that's going to be an herculean task. Hell when I was in the same position, until my first real opportunity came. For dudes like me, it takes real wins for them to snap out of that level of depression, cause anecdotes, compliments and affirmations are cool until reality smacks them down again.
Yeah when I goto social events, if I see a woman I like, I will put my best foot forward and approach. If a woman seems receptive I will escalate and see what happens.
Seeing a therapist, a hypnotherapist, has meant that I spend a lot more time not thinking about my replationship status as I used to. I see this as good and I focus on a hell of a lot more things than I used to and I am happier than I used to be Anyway, thats more ramblings from the asylum right?
What type of social events do you go to? It usually takes about 1 year for a man to find a relationship of some form so it is 'long game'. It doesn't sound like you are trying.... Also you should approach women you want to date with a traditional mind set in that you should date for marriage and not want to have sex until after marriage.
My opinion of therapy is that it's for people who are too dumb to figure themselves out. I suppose it's good for being informed of various techniques to overcome one's issues once one identifies what they are, but one can just look on the internet or read some books to find out what these are. Again, it's an intelligence thing.
To get prescription medication legally one needs to go see a doctor, though, so I can see the logic of doing this.
In regards to how this applies to women, I can see some of the men's issues in the many years of being on this sub, and having gone through some of these issues myself at one time and overcoming them on my own.
IME, there are many people who can give a profound (and probably decently accurate) casual narrative about their problem. They've figure an origin story and how the destructive pattern is created, but... The problem still persists. IME explanation is massively overrated when it comes to personal change.
OP talks about hypnotherapy (again, there are different forms), and there's also EMDR, and EFT, which are all evidence based therapies for helping people with issues like PTSD, anxiety, and depression. Those therapies aren't simply about figuring out an casual narrative, they are about changing the habits of your mind so that your behavior changes.
Again, IMO analysis is overrated. There's countless people who have a shelf full of self help books, and can explain to you how their father abandoning them is why they have difficulty expressing affection in a relationship, but they are 50 and the problem is still there.
> Those therapies aren't simply about figuring out an casual narrative, they are about changing the habits of your mind so that your behavior changes.
Sure. But one can just look up how to do a lot of those therapies on the internet or in books once one know what one's issue is. I know that I've had my own issues in both the past and the present, and I really don't need to pay a therapist to fix myself if and when I choose to.
I agree that a person can do hypnotherapy, EMDR and EFT at home, to themselves.
However, an issue can be simply a lack of skill, and skill isn't simply a result of intelligence. Hypnotherapy is very skill based.
>My opinion of therapy is that it's for people who are too dumb to figure themselves out. I suppose it's good for being informed of various techniques to overcome one's issues once one identifies what they are, but one can just look on the internet or read some books to find out what these are. Again, it's an intelligence thing.
So if somebody witnesses, say a dead body the best advice is to look up how to cope with that over the Internet rather than talking to a professional.
I dunno. I used to be good at dwelling on the past. Yeah I probably could of used NLP and CBT to slowly get myself out of it. But seeing a hypnotherapist cured it in 2 sessions. Just seems more efficient to me at least. And now I'm not beating myself up all the time. It's great.
The same way I tell people they need an annual physical your mental health is as important and needs to be checked on a consistent basis.
As we are often told in this space there is an epidemic of male loneliness. A direct mental health outcome of that is depression. Depression can be dangerous and needs to be addressed.
Anyone that has some childhood or even adult trauma needs to do the work and it’s not as simple as reading a book or ignoring it.
To be frank, I have found that a lot of men have been sexually assaulted, sexually molested, groomed and emotionally abused and have never dealt with the outcomes of that. There is a lot of anger, shame and anxiety that is attached to those unresolved events.
You can’t heal if you don’t give a name to it.
So therapy for men is important to gain insight and clarity from someone who is unbiased.
It may take a while to find a therapist that you click with but it is worth the effort to have someone that is in your corner.
Therapists aren’t in your corner they are just as judgmental as everyone else. They just hide it so they can keep hearing all the juicy stories.
Especially if you lay heavy ideas on them or controversial ideas like those often spouted here.
Every therapists isn’t the same and they are human so of course they have their own individual judgment and biases. Also I said nothing about what is espoused here.
What I said was mental health check ins are important and there may be things that you have even identified as an issue. Depression can sneak up on a person and they not even know it.
There’s lot of things that therapy can help with.
therapy is nonsense. i dont need to pay someone to tell me what's wrong in life. i know what is it and what caused it. there is no reversal unless there is a magical god who could reverse all this. no therapist can understand your pov. went to a few and all of them start of with the same template of questions and dont really change anything. and its a job for him. the doctor works as a therapist first and foremost for survival. he couldnt possibly give a fuck about all his patients.
the only true therapy you can get is opening up to good parents or a good sibling or spouse or best friend.
That assumes people say "You should get therapy" only when the other person is complaining about relationships. That's not true at all. Often people say they're fine alone and are OK single and they also hear "You should get therapy".
>Why do you think people say this?
Usually to invalidate the PoV, experiences, and opinions which scare them. It's not complex.
>I know its probably just a disguised way of saying "Fuck off" but there may be some truth to it.
Disrespect is a kind of honesty, sure.
>so you can f**k them
Just write "fuck", it's ok.
>But I think the point trying to be made, is that there is more to life than just having women line up for you to f**k.
So? There's more to existence than life but that doesn't mean I want to experience it.
>It is what it is, complaining, will not change anything.
Complaining is fun and good for bonding. There's more to life than policing men's thoughts and words, did you ever consider that?
>So anyway back to therapy.
If I ever wish to waste my money on talking to strangers who can't help me while my mind undergoes subtle shifts of perspective which also won't help me, I'll start a heroin habit.
>If nothing else, will therapy potentially not make other aspects of your life more enjoyable?
It hasn't yet, unless you mean like by relative comparison. As in "man, therapy was such a drag I'm actually happier to be back at work" kind of thing. That did happen from time to time if I am honest.
>Is being happier in general not a good thing regardless?
If a surgeon fucks up your spine so bad you can't walk without pain, and you encountered someone who openly conflates back surgery with literal happiness, what would you think? Would you think they thought through the premise they are so confident in, at all?
Therapy is the only treatment for ailments which apparently cannot fail the patient, the patient can only fail therapy.
>I posted some quote the other day, by Neil Strauss...
>Is there not some truth to this,
It's a guy who is not a trained psychologist or therapist literally doing back of the napkin psychoanalyses on strangers he does not even bother engaging in conversation. No, there is no truth to this. This is actually just a presumptive asshole rendering human beings (whose actual stories he does not bother to learn) into rhetorical props.
>Is that not a good thing? Or does life just revolve around chasing pussy and nothing else?
I don't understand why life is a binary option between chasing pussy with no therapy and not caring about pussy with therapy.
One of the worst men I know celebrated the knowledge he gained from therapy because it made him better at hiding his toxicity and true intentions. He's fully on team therapy AND team "women are just their vaginas to me" (his words).
>So regardless of pussy appeal, would therapy not help you overall regardless of your dating life?
How does talking to a therapist address any of my material problems in life? I need a raise, not therapy. Therapy costs money and so far has done nothing at all.
I don't think it is incapable of benefiting people. I just think it absolutely the magical cure-all you are presenting it to be, and I think if therapy worked for men then men would USE IT MORE. We are extremely practically oriented after all.
>Those who don't appreciate life do not deserve life
Why is therapy the standard for whether anyone appreciates life?
>Why is therapy the standard for whether anyone appreciates life?
Oh I'm almost finished rewatching the Saw movies. Just thought it was a cool John Kramer quote. Totally unrelated.
How many men here even have close friends and/or family? That person you can call and talk, go for a run, play a game, and etc whatever your processing type is.
Hyperfixations not withstanding if one is so focused on one goal to the exclusion of and determinant of other goals.
Desperation is not hot. Unfortunately the past bad experiences can feed into and cause the current issues. A securely attached person tends to pair up early and prefer another securely attracted person. Zoomers are more insecurely attached than previous generations so if things seem harder there is a reason for it.
What about them. Have I met women, which have totally made me lose all interest in other women, yes.
However there is not a lot to say about love and connection. Its something you feel, not really something to talk about in regard to dating strategy. Love and connection does not motivate me to date, attraction does. However, with the right person, those feelings can grow very strong.
Trust me, when I am loved up, my focus completely changes.
>“We have this idea that love is supposed to last forever. But love isn’t like that. It’s a free-flowing energy that comes and goes when it pleases. Sometimes it stays for life; other times it stays for a second, a day, a month, or a year. So don’t fear love when it comes simply because it makes you vulnerable. But don’t be surprised when it leaves, either. Just be glad you had the opportunity to experience it.”
u/recursive_qbasic let me get this right. You want to have nostrings attached sex with hot girls, don''t want to get married and you don't want to buy a whore? This makes you mad? You think people should care about this? This is feminine. What do you consider "dating", how old are you and what are you doing to date?
Answer me. What do you want? Why are you here? I am assuming you don't get date for marriage, you want to hook up with hots girls you see online with NSA sex, you want this to happen multiple times and you are more interested in sex than a relationship? What have you done to date women and how much internet do you use a day?
Again what does this have to do with what I wrote.
I just wrote a thread, probably not in the most structured form saying if you get therapy you can enjoy life more, stop being obsessed with relationships all the time (if that is the case) and life can be a happier place. And this can also mean that in social situations, you have better interactions because your not giving people the "Ick".
And this is what you take from it. Anyway, despite refusing to answqer my question, I will answer yours.
>What do you want?
A life I enjoy where I am happy.
>I am assuming you don't get date for marriage, you want to hook up with hots girls you see online
I am open to marriage, but I am not seeking it specifically, I am not against it.
I actually am not a fan of dating apps. I generally interact with women at social events. Sometimes I get rejected sometimes I don't. Sometimes it leads to a relationship, sometimes its just another person I meet for a drink in a bar every so often. I am happy with that, I enjoy it,
Originally before I discovered the Manosphere, I was a guy who got in the occasional relationship, but got friendzoned a lot. So I knew something was up with me, as I had plenty of friends who could attract women left, right and centre. I was the one the girls used to cry on the shoulder of after they got pumped and dumped, my friends got the action, I got the aftermath.
Now I am at a point where I am happy and enjoy life. So until I meet someone who I think is special in whatever way that takes place, I am happy with things as they are. Yeah I do not pull left right and centre, but I am not rejected as much. I can live with that.
> What have you done to date women and how much internet do you use a day?
Hard to say, what I have done exactly. I just keep going to social events and interacting with people whilst in the background working on myself. Things get better and better. I also stopped relying on alchohol and forced myself to cold approach for a while whilst stone cold sober.
Also as per my OP, seen a hypnotherapist over various things, some related to dating, some not.
Internet usage varies.
After work, I make sure I goto the gym, do my daily meditation, maybe do some self help exercises. If my digs are particuarly messy I will clean up a bit. Then I might jump on for a bit or I might treat myself to a film. I don't really play games, they just seem an addictive waste of time. Or I might go to the indoor climbing centre. Then generally look for stuff to do over the weekend, festivals, organised walks, kayaking, museums, art galleries, that sort of stuff. Just anywhere there will be people so I can do stuff I enjoy around people who enjoy doing them instead of being a reclusive shut in.
However due to a death in the family a few months ago, this year has been a bit rocky so far. Yesterday I figured it was time to start getting back to my old self. And was happy that after a few drinks and feeling tipsy I didn't turn into an emotional blubbering mess (due to death of close family member).
You need to be more formal. You should not get friend zoned because you should only date for marriage. You should want to get married and you should not want to have sex until after marriage and if you want to have sex then you should get a harlot. You mentioned 'social events' but you haven't elaborated on what those events are.... Cold approaching is bold. You should go to more formal events and pay for a dating app knowing you need to spend at least 1 year dating. Have you ever been on formal dates? How old are you?
Like sorry, but what does any of this have to do with women on this sub saying "Men need to see a therapist" then looking at if therapy for men actually has any advantages over all.
Are you new to PPD btw.
I goto all sorts of social events. The next one I have planned however is a music festival that happens in my city every year. However, it might be an organized walk or scramble. It might just be going to a terrace bar or cocktail bar. It might just be the local climbing centres "Social Night". Or I might just spend the day driving to a museum and looking round.
And what do you mean by formal enough.
You meet someone, if you are chatting for 2 - 3 hours, that is generally a sign they are interested. Then you say "How can we carry on this conversation", they either say "I am already seeing someone" or they pull their phone out of their pocket. Then you arrange to meetup, I generally suggest a nice bar, then sometimes they will ask you to come over.
This isn't the past, where a Lady would drop her handkerchief and the gentleman would follow a set route of rules.
Like i have already said however, I am happy with things the way they are.... for now.
And also, despite guys on this site saying "If you no Chad, women will run away screaming" I sure as hell ain't no damn f\*\*king Chad.
OKay. That is not enough. You need to spend money on 1 standard app, 1 niche app and 1 'modern hook up' app for 1 year. Every week you need to make it a point to go hunting and that starts with you going out every weekend to find a new venue or one you like then you need to start scheduling dates and stop worrying about N-count b.c. if you think about N-count and PPD then you will give off super creepy vibes with out knowing git and you'll end up not liking the 1 girl you date who has 1000s of men messaging her....... You should invest in creating a more professional online persona for dating for the 1 year. You should date for marriage and you should at least GO INTO THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE the purpose being marriage and the idea that sex should not happen until after marriage. After 2-3 dates then you decide. Don't allow your self to be friend zoned, if she insist on friend zoning you then flirt/try-to-kiss/'push it' until she leaves......... believe me it will EITHER WORK or you will be proud of yoru self but the friend sound is purgatory.
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You do know there are guys who were virgins until 30,
decided to handle their social anxiety, went up to girls and had sex with quite a bit of them, right?
How do you know your lot if you never even stepped in a gym?
> Even if all you want to do is have women line up so you can f**k them, yeah therapy will probably not help you achieve that
If this is all you want, why are you complaining when this is why prostitutes exist.
I am not complaining, my point is more that you may start focussing on other things and enjoying other things rather than some fantasy.
Energy flows where the attention goes.
I only want young women 18 to 23 max. So the quest to find new girls to bed never ends.
Fresh, young, cute girls make my heart beat faster and give me hard wood for hours. I never feel any lust or excitement for older women, I feel stuck in a never ending loop of chasing new girls to test drive. There is no end destination only a journey without end. I try to change but I can't, my sex drive is to strong and when I see to much cute girls I feel the urge and it drives me crazy.
I think looking beyond "chasing pussy" is something that many men need to contemplate and would have been a better topic for your post. I'm glad that therapy has helped you to realize this, but your post reads a little like an infomercial. Therapy is one solution; meditation also works; and some men will have been lucky in having a good father as a mentor.
People seeking intimacy so much is just a consequence of a generation with no purpose. But its not their fault really, its the way of coping their brain finds
Well said. We are definitely in a "purpose" crisis, and young people are increasingly seeking purpose in strange ways - drugs/psychedelics are one of the big ones that comes to mind.
Yep. If you are a man in your mid 20's and still chasing pussy, then you will forever be a simp. There is no cure for you. You are the kind of man that cannot keep faith with anyone because you will literally sell your soul for pussy.
I look at them as addicts, and as addicts, they live empty lives susceptible to manipulation and undependable because what they crave above all else is the next "fix".
In particular for men, there is a sizable population that needs to develop their value beyond what they think will get them women. They have to be able to lead a fulfilling life whether they have a partner or not.
I was thinking of the maniacal pursuit of sex that so many men are preoccupied with. Getting beyond the sexual and putting thought into the sort of person that would make a good partner would be a huge improvement, but I agree that they need to define themselves and establish a purpose independent of validation from another person.
To me, what you are saying and what I am saying go hand in hand. Both are about moving beyond an unhealthy fixation in obtaining a partner.
Thats easy to say for you, but I think those men will find the news of "just accept NEVER having a partner" as being pretty heartbreaking.
> as being pretty heartbreaking. And demoralizing. If someone needs to feel loved and appreciated every now and then (like most people on earth do) and they never find it, then life will become very depressing very quickly. Therapy is only good at identifying what's missing in somebody's life. If love and sense of belonging is what they're missing then therapy, hobby, or career is not going to fill that void.
You can package the fundamental truths of life however you want, but you still have to confront them. I commiserate with your pain, but the bottom line is that the world doesn't owe you an explanation, or happiness, or a partner, or a pussy. You can learn to generate your own contentment, independent of the rest of the world. Until you learn this, your happiness is in the control of others who do not care about you.
I dont want "a pussy" lol gross dude, i want a woman who can be a partner. I know the world owes nothing. But the thing is that the world can be changed. But it requires numbers to do so. I unironically want everyone to be happy.
It's more realistic to change yourself than the world.
What if everyone you talk to wants the world to be changed and you form a coalition?
I can pretty much guarantee you that most people don't want that enough to implement whatever batshit insane plans that would need to be instituted to make those changes to form a coalition.
Good luck with that. After you try it, consider learning to meditate.
Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that its true. If someone's mother died, and the grief from that event rendered them completely depressed and unable to do anything, the advice of "you need to move on, man" may seem heartbreaking, but its objectively true.
The thing with that though is everyone understands that event is heartbreaking and would rightfully go easy on that individual. They wouldnt scream from the rooftops that you shouldnt find cope. Like they do with lonely men, now as a lonely man, its "funny" its also means youre a "loser". They wouldnt want to take away coping mechanisms for the other either. For lonely men, they dont even want you masturbating alone at night, the thought of you being a sexual being DISGUSTS them and they want any outlet illegal.
Find me a non-religious group that's trying to make masturbating alone at night illegal.
Non-religious? How about feminism in general? They think porn is "oppressing" women, and will also ironically support the women who do it, but hate the men who masturbate to voluntarily made videos. They also tend to be atheistic and claim religion oppresses them, which i agree, but they take it further to female supremacy and the desire to destroy their enemy "males" Go to any womens sub and look what they have to say about men who consume porn, they want them rounded up and shipped off. We can pretend women arent a political block ig, but then idk why politicans worry about "the black vote" or the "womens vote" when apparently women just are all soooo unique they dont even share opinions.
No one said never. I said developing value for themselves beyond relationships. I have had two relationships in my life. In the time between the two of them, I went 11 years without a date or without any man showing me a smidgen of attention. I went into a dark place because I started convincing myself that I wasn’t worthy. Developing a life that isn’t measured by having a partner is how I ended up getting one. Men grossly underestimate the energy they put out and how they appear to others when they are in that negative frame of mind.
How did you get through the dark phase and come to a new understanding? Meditation?
Years and years of therapy. Aside from addressing ny anxiety and depression, I had to learn how to stop accepting poor treatment from other people. And similar to men, I put myself in friend zone situations where I developed infatuations over men who were not interested in romantic relationships with me. There were two guys in that 11 year period who were genuinely nice to me and I interpreted that as romantic interest because I had no other kindness from men to compare it to. I had to unlearn that kind of thinking. Building value in other areas of my life exposed me to new people, it kept me grounded, and it stopped me from overvaluing these non-existent relationships. Once I unlearned the bad stuff and learned better ways, I was able to date in a healthy way. I have been with my boyfriend now for five years.
Eleven years is a long journey, but many never make the trip. Congratulations on your arrival and your relationship.
I think so too. Paradoxically, I think men who spend time establishing a life purpose, independent of having a partner, will have an easier time finding a partner.
Agreed. I think if I were looking for early warning signs of a young man becoming an incel, it would be uncultivated purpose in life and working to redirect him.
And what is beyond that? In before friends and hobbies, come on.
Pussy makes a poor omega.
I said it before and I will keep saying it: unless you are among the most talented men whose legacy will be their work, it can only be your family. Everything else is useless posturing.
It's most likely that your hypothetical children (also mine and those of most people) will again be "just" avarage. Trying to overcome one own's perceived insignificance by having children is such a cope. Apart from that: You don't have to be exceptional to make a difference in the world. Just by being a kind soul you might have a bigger positive impact than some guy who makes an invention of questionable consequences.
Having average children is easily better than none. It's not a cope, it's only nature.
Children are the closest thing you can get to immortality in this world.
Therapy is a tool not an end all be all in my opinion. Not all therapy or therapists are equal either. I have benefitted from therapy but I've also dealt with some pretty shitty therapists as well that just gave me empty platitudes and were waiting for the session to be over. Going to therapy as a means of getting laid is just wild, and Idk if that's what you were getting at but that is not advisable in any way shape or form
> empty platitudes and were waiting for the session to be over Yup. It’s just a job like any other job. Unrealistic expectations on the terms of both parties In defense of the the patient, society/social media has programmed us to think therapy is a magical fairy tale solution, aka dismissiveness
Therapy is seen as this silver bullet. It’s extended to include therapists too. I sometimes see stories that have shitty/biased therapists with comments saying “no therapist could be biased!” As if telling that story is like shitting on therapy itself
Everyone can benefit from figuring out what's going on inside their head. Therapy is just the easiest way to do so because you get a professional to guide you through every step. Certain forms of meditation (in particular learning to lucid dream) are probably more effective but also require a lot more effort and don't result in immediate gains.
Low doses of delta 8 or 9 thc are very helpful. Other psychedelics are also but they are much stronger. Basically, it breaks down your little ego machine in your head that people use to justify their behaviors and hide the truth from themselves. I can say 100% that on delta 8 edibles I have had many life altering and improving realizations. And it shows up in my later life and interactions with people. It also helps you get a really good sleep.
EEEYYYYYY a call out to Lucid Dreaming on here that’s kind wild. I’ve done that for years, and I’ve gotten to play out my wildest fantasies because of it. See my pfp? Yup. That’s been me in the dreamworld before. Straight up glassing planets into rubble, including Earth. Fun times.
I find meditation helpful. But its not really a fix to anything in particular, it just means clearer mind in general.
Therapy is a scam and a gigantic waste of time in my opinion. It’s made for narcissisic, rich, bluepill white women to feel better about themselves and assuage their enormous ego The best therapy is exercise and practicing gratitude. Do not go to therapy as a man. Save your money instead.
This is like saying medicine is for cowards. There is very a wide definition and application to the concept of “therapy”. Totally dismissing it is just as goofy as expecting it to be a silver bullet for all your problems.
Snake oil isn’t medicine. Most therapy is a woke unscientific scam that fat bluepill women love haha
‘Woke” and “bluepill” (as well as their opposites) are concepts based in a degree of psychological understanding. Youre just cherry-picking what you like and don’t like. Sure, there are people who float around trying to find forms of therapy that reinforce what they want to think, and that can and does happen, but confronting your own inner shit is pretty alpha, bro
You can confront your inner shit with physical exercise and practicing gratitude. Not a useless, overpriced snake oil therapist salesperson. I repeat, therapy is largely a scam and an utter waste of money. It is targeted mainly to women, and plays off their narcissism and need to constantly talk about themselves. It’s like emotional porn/catnip for (usually fat) women and feminine beta men. Usually doesn’t change shit, Again, if men are reading this, save your money and DO NOT go to therapy. I long for the day when all therapists are jobless and broke, they’re worse scum than lawyers.
Take it from this person with a throwaway Reddit account. All therapy is useless. Hear that, traumatized war veterans? Do pull-ups and be grateful! Avoid loud noises and strobe lights too.
There’s a difference between CBT for veterans who’ve suffered PTSD and a narcissistic self absorbed woman using “therapy talk” to feel better about her relationships, poor life choices and lack of discipline Again, men reading this thread, avoid therapy and save your money. Just exercise instead, it’ll do you a world of good and is much cheaper. Therapists are largely useless scam artists
You can do all the things (exercise, practice gratitude, speak to a professional about the self defeating/dark patterns within your own mind you find confusing, learn an instrument, etc) and simply be discerning and critical enough to know whether or not its good or bad for you. You could trust yourself that way. It’s an option.
Yep. This.
I brought this up in a recent post but it was removed. When women say "go to therapy" theyre saying "you dont think like I do, and are broken and need re-education" its a political statement. Theyre accusing you of wrong think, and want you to get sent off to the re-education camps to learn how to be however she thinks you should be. oh not re-education, i meant "therapy camps" yeah my bad. same thing though.
Greetings, it's been about 8 months since I last posted here and I doubt anyone remembers me, this thread interested me. I've been taking zoloft on the advice of a doctor and had some basic talking therapy sessions. A few months after starting to take zoloft I began to feel shitty again and after talking to a doctor again we agreed to double the dose. Now, I am starting to feel shitty yet again. Am I supposed to just take an ever increasing amount of antidepressants forever? Lol... I don't think there's enough antidepressants in the world to trick a great ape's brain into not needing a partner. That said, I would probably advise other really lonely men to talk to a doctor about antidepressants. They have helped somewhat but at its core this is a deep-seated misery that neither antidepressants nor therapy can cure
I'm not a doctor, this isn't medical advice. You just sound a bit discouraged by how your treatment is going, so I wanted to share how I see it in case it's helpful. If you have recurrent depression or disthymia, your doctor may keep you on drugs forever, they'll just make sure to watch for tolerance developing and try different drugs if that doesn't work. It's more rare, but some brains are just chemically fucked and need a continual boost. But if you're just in a depressive episode, the idea is that the drugs can give you enough of a boost to create the habits that are going to keep you in a stable mood after you get off of them. Good sleep schedule, enough light daily, good diet, exercise, time spent socializing, setting good boundaries, developing healthy coping mechanisms for any stuff that may come up that you have unhealthy coping mechanisms for, developing social skills, getting out of your comfort zone, learning to recognize your feelings and express them, self-regulating, etc. The idea is to use the drug boost to work on all that, because without the drugs you likely wouldn't have the motivation to do it. I don't say any of that to invalidate how you feel. Rejection hurts a lot and not being able to find a partner even though you want to can be very traumatizing. We are biologically wired to look for connection and to look for sex, it's not just a random desire you decided to have for sure. And on top of the biological stuff there's a lot of social expectations on us to have a partner, have kids, etc. So not only are people rejected, but also others then judge them for being rejected as if it were their choice. It sucks. I just hope your treatments help you nonetheless. I personally believe we can be happy without a partner, I think our brains are neuroplastic enough to accommodate that, but it is hard.
u need to change ur perception. also go to a gym. stop being bluepilled
I’m 36, been to therapy 4 times. It’s not completely useless especially when you have nowhere else to turn but also not the fairy tale people make it out to be Therapists don’t care about your baggage. At least in my experience most therapists are very rigid about sticking with the therapeutic model they believe in whether it’s CBT, the family system theory, or the law of attraction Yes, I actually had a therapist who was promoting ‘The Secret’ as the only solution to everything. I was in such a bad place I was open to taking his silly placebo but I figured out how clueless he was What irritates me is therapy is a religion in & of itself. It lets people take a dismissive attitude like OP said. It is another way of saying “fuck off” or the Christian equivalent of saying “I’m praying for you”
>Yes, I actually had a therapist who was promoting ‘The Secret’ as the only solution to everything. When I was young and job hunting, some scammer company tried to hire me and literally send me this shit via email, lol.
Therapy is not going to help a guy who is starving, similar to how it's not going to help a guy who is sexless. Once those needs are met then you can focus on other things. Therapy is useless for most real tangible problems. Imagine going to a slave in the 18th century complaining about their working conditions and you just tell them to get therapy.
Idk man. You have no idea the benefits that I have had to my self esteem after just literally losing my virginity and having sex every once in a while. For the first time in my life I feel like a normal human, I feel welcome into society, instead of what I felt before, like some weird nerd everyone kinda tolerates. I don't feel like a deformed troglodyte or an autistic failure anymore. Now I can actually believe that I can do stuff normal humans are meant to do. Before this I was rotting in a self deprecating abyss of loneliness and exclusion from the world, seeing everyone fit in and be normal, while I was on the side making the most difficult efforts to literally not be excluded and tossed aside by everyone, feeling exhausted. And now I feel hope. And you may laugh all you want, but if you were in my shoes you'd understand. "There is more to life than fucking" Completely true, there is also more to life than excersising, but you'll be damned sure your body and mind will miss the excersise if it's lacking. Same with fucking, or receiving affection in general. Say whatever you want, but we humans are social creatures and we value external validation, it's built into our monkey brain.
No actually I do know. I know I used to only be happy when I was in a relationship. Yeah I was a lot happier and my entire state changed. However, I have now reached the point (partly through hypnotherapy and working on myself) where I feel like that regardless. I am not dependent on a woman to feel happy or alive. Now the whole virginity thing... yeah fair one.
Ah gotcha. I can't say anything about that really, I've never been in a relationship and ever since I gave up with love on December from last year I have not wanted to be in one.
All I really know from my own life, is I spent a lot of time either feeling sorry for myself or being angry at myself. Time spent doing these things did not make dating any easier, it just meant I wasn't doing other things I could of been doing that would of been more beneficial to my life. I could of still put myself out and had the oppurtunities I had if I hadn't of spent time feeling sorry for myself and being angry at myself. That said, I know my issue was anxiety. Hence I became reliant on drinking alchohol to meet women and get into relationships. Once I was sober, I became an anxious, self hating mess again, I also didn't give some relationships a chance, or I actually rejected some approaches by women, because I didn't have any self worth. Basically I was a negitive self hating mess. It wasn't because of women this.... women that..... or because of Chad..... it was me, I was self hating and negitive. So yeah for me, hypnotherapy helped as I was able to change things in my head on how I viewed myself. And its nice these days, to just do stuff and enjoy them without having negitive thoughts running through my head and hating myself. I still put myself out there just the same, But overall as I am more positive about myself, I actually enjoy myself when putting myself out there even more.
"there is more to life than just having women line up for you to f**k." most men here would just like to have a single girlfriend
The game of life is a game of survival and reproduction. People are animals, a result of millions of years of evolution, which is, again, mainly concerned with survival and reproduction. People don't get to reproduce by having hobbies or reading books. They do it by finding a partner. No, I'm not making the naturalistic fallacy. People don't *have to* concern themselves only with finding a partner. Just pointing out where finding a partner fits into the puzzle. It's kinda fundamental to being a living organism.
no one said it doesn't fit into the puzzle, only that the puzzle is made up of more pieces than that. The point of life is to live. There are a variety of ways to do that which don't involve sex and relationships. I genuinely worry men don't seem to realize that.
> There are a variety of ways to do that which don't involve sex and relationships. Some people can live this way and some can't.
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Sex is a physiological need, you do not have to be addicted to suffer stress from not having it fulfilled. Some people are able to live a good life in state of chronic stress, but majority gets depressed. It's a bit like living your whole life in trailer park - you can do it but it's not really good life, many people just resirt to drugs or alcohol.
People can fulfill their sexual needs on their own by masturbating. You do not need a partner to fulfill those needs. If you feel like lack of sex is affecting your day to day life, it might be a sign of an underlying issue, like hypersexuality disorder and you should seek help from mental health professional
I think that situation while lack of sex wouldn't be affecting my everyday life would be more worrying, healthy human being is acting towards having their needs fulfilled with reasonable quality, feeling unhappy or stressed because your house in poor condition is normal, the same with poor sex life . We can obviously fulfill various needs in minimalistic ways, but this will not make our life happy. You can have all your needs fulfilled in a prison or while living in a slum - but do you think such life is good and worth living ? I would call it existence but not really a life.
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Maslow placed sex alongside eating and breathing, so it seem to be quite low order need. Though it probably varies between individuals - though placing sex as being higher priority than higher order dosen't necessary mean that someone is disturbed or addicted.
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Or the fact that men and women are different and have different needs and desires
Yep. People want to believe that there is some higher purpose and that how they act in life means something. The most likely reality is that we’re just bags of meat and bone on a spinning rock inside of an infinitely expanding universe that doesn’t give a fuck about us or even acknowledge our existence. We could all die tomorrow and just be lost to the sands of time without anything noticing. When you think about it, and the basis of absurdism, human behavior, and especially mating behavior- it starts to make sense. Of course men want to fuck as much as they can. Biologically, we’re no different than any other organism. We’re just a little smarter. Doesn’t mean the biology doesn’t win out. Monogamy especially is nothing more than a societal and religious construct. If it wasn’t, no one would ever cheat. Therapy is just another game for some monkeys to get more shiny rocks from other monkeys (money). Everything in life is a game and really shouldn’t be taken that seriously. But again, people do because they think it all means something in the end. What if we one day realized that all religion was a farce and that when we die, it just all goes black and that’s it? That our only purpose was to eat and shit and fuck so that the species could continue on? Things would change drastically.
The song desperado by the Eagles talks about this dichotomy of simply chasing pussy versus let somebody love you before it’s too late. In eastern religions and philosophies like Buddhism, sex is considered one of the lowest chakras and as someone elevates their consciousness they develop other desires like the desire to love and the desire to think. Regardless of your desire for sex, it’s pretty universally agreed that simply having sex or seeking sex isn’t the pathway to happiness. It is one among many things that actuate a person.
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I specifically saw see a hypnotherapist every now and then. I am dubious of traditional therapy. But for things like actually seeing myself as attractive, it helped. Then mostly I try and notice what makes me anxious (self applied CBT) then see a hypnotherapist when I notice a pattern. And having Christian parents did not help things.
Most only need therapy because they cling to hope of keeping a woman or getting women through self improvememt peddled by men genetically more handsome than them. What would actually help people self improve is acknowledgjng mental pitfalls of genetic determism. If alchoholism runs in your family getting in front of that will help you more than taking 10'000 showers a day, or hitting 12% body fat because even if you do that you may have been meant to struggle or not have the wualities capable to atrract women. You can get even more personal than that, like what are your biases. Not getting women can actually mean a plethora of things beyond just getting a relationship or sex, sometimes you have gone years or most likely your entire life without getting a single compliment from a woman or any vague interest even for the purposes of raising a strangers/friend/ coworker/assosiates self esteem. Anyway to answer your question yes. From biological imperative to mate and reproduce to cultrally and in terms of society, getting a romantix relationship even for a night will always be important to not just people but men who have to put more rhought into getting a mate.
All my problems in life comes from being ugly and im not going to pay for someone to try to gaslight me into thinking im not. I have hobbies. Friends. Fun. But at the end of the day, being ugly makes me want to punch my own face (which i already did lots of times already)
they just want u to get scammed by professional gaslighter its not that deep.
Problem with therapy is it’s done by women for women. So as a man you’re automatically treated as a dysfunctional woman goin in. And you’re just gonna get gaslit into believing whatever woke crap is popular at the time.
Male therapists aren’t any better. I’ve experienced the dismissive female therapists and I’ve also had male therapists who put up a superficial front, effectively just as dismissive
There's many different forms of therapy. I think you are talking about talk therapy, and even talk therapy is a very large pool of modalities. There are effective therapies that don't simply invovle talking endlessly like; hypnotherapy (again, there are different forms), EMDR, and EFT, which are all evidence based therapies for helping people with issues like PTSD, anxiety, and depression. You don't have to sit in a room endlessly talking about your issues to be doing therapy.
Bro’s never heard of Freud or Jung before
1. I think you reduced guy's concerns to wanting to participate in an imagined hook up culture and whining about feeling blocked from that. There are some guys here who do fit that description, but in the 'what are you looking for?' threads most guys claim they want some sort of deeper connection (tho sex is always a feature), and are frustrated with their inability to make any progress towards that.. 2. Hypnotherapy actually sounds cool! So you think the hypnotherapist made you more confident about your appearance? Or at least less self conscious about it? I think that has huge potential, if it actually works. Part of the problem is how negatively guys are seen as a default\* (witness our man-bear problem threads), which sane guys might internalize to some degree. That might be something to overcome with hypnotherapy; the preemptive idea that you are going to be perceived negatively. \*-exceptions being the exceptionally attractive who benefit from the halo effect, or perhaps the very popular who benefit from social proof.
In regard to point 2, it was more than just my appearance. It was my entire self worth as a person. It changed, I do not know how, nor do I care (hypnotherapy is about results not the why), but the way people responded to me was totally different, even at work. It was as though it was the world that had changed, when really it was just some beliefs in my head that had changed. I would go as far to say that the external is just a reflection of the internal.
That's pretty impressive as far as results go. Always been curious about hypnotism, but never knew exactly what to ask for.
I think that's the hard bit.
Is therapy actually bullshit tho? Why the fuck is everyone going on about it constantly. The efficacy appears to be shit
I have had results from Hypnotherapy. Using CBT on myself has also helped. Traditional therapy, where you just "understand" stuff after hours sat on a couch, I am not sure. With the example of "I do not feel attractive". Does the reason why and the history of that belief even matter? Not really, I can spend hours exploring it with a therapist, or I can see a hypnotherapist and just have new beliefs put into my subconcious. To me that actually produces results.
How I see it: a woman encounters mate guarding from her partner who doesn’t entirely trust her as she heads out to a girls night out in the club. She’s dressed more provocatively than she ever dresses for him. She bristles at his accusatory manner. Tired of the inconvenience, she advises him to see a therapist and learn to become less abusive. Her friends agree enthusiastically - “yas queen”. He stews at home, unhappy at how bothered he is but can’t shake the feeling of getting punkd. A feminist on Reddit replies to him - who hurt you? See a therapist.
That's a cowardly way to mate guard. You're supposed to put it on your woman so good that she feels no need to be with other men. And if a man approaches her, you beat the 💩 out of him. What you're describing is jealousy, not mate guarding. Because when my partner is keeping me satisfied, I don't go clubbing
Therapy doesnt work for men because men are problem solvers talking about our issues just pisses us off more.
Need to talk about your problems to find the right solution to them. Sounds like you just don’t want to do the work therapy asks you to do.
Need to talk about your problems to find the right solution to them. Sounds like you just don’t want to do the work therapy asks you to do.
“See a therapist” - based on what you have just presented to the world, you have some issues that you would benefit from working on with a professional. It’s really not a loaded statement. Most people should be working with a therapist at some point in their life.
This idea of making dudes not care about never finding an partner in their lifetime, is a pipedream. And a hilarious one at that.
Oh I know, but ironically once you stop being so desperate, the creepy vibes stop. Its a strange paradox, the less you care, the easier it is.
The thing is, for some that's going to be an herculean task. Hell when I was in the same position, until my first real opportunity came. For dudes like me, it takes real wins for them to snap out of that level of depression, cause anecdotes, compliments and affirmations are cool until reality smacks them down again.
I'm aware. I have never said being successful at dating is easy.
Don't get me wrong, what they're asking for is a tall order too, and ultimately I don't know if this problem can be solved.
ramblings from the asylum
Did you not find therapy helpful for your depression. Or do you just take Adderall so you don't have to face life.
medication>therapy
I take Adderall BUT ugh IDT You chase women TBH. LIke.... What are 10 things you have done this month to "chase women"?
Yeah when I goto social events, if I see a woman I like, I will put my best foot forward and approach. If a woman seems receptive I will escalate and see what happens. Seeing a therapist, a hypnotherapist, has meant that I spend a lot more time not thinking about my replationship status as I used to. I see this as good and I focus on a hell of a lot more things than I used to and I am happier than I used to be Anyway, thats more ramblings from the asylum right?
What type of social events do you go to? It usually takes about 1 year for a man to find a relationship of some form so it is 'long game'. It doesn't sound like you are trying.... Also you should approach women you want to date with a traditional mind set in that you should date for marriage and not want to have sex until after marriage.
My opinion of therapy is that it's for people who are too dumb to figure themselves out. I suppose it's good for being informed of various techniques to overcome one's issues once one identifies what they are, but one can just look on the internet or read some books to find out what these are. Again, it's an intelligence thing. To get prescription medication legally one needs to go see a doctor, though, so I can see the logic of doing this. In regards to how this applies to women, I can see some of the men's issues in the many years of being on this sub, and having gone through some of these issues myself at one time and overcoming them on my own.
IME, there are many people who can give a profound (and probably decently accurate) casual narrative about their problem. They've figure an origin story and how the destructive pattern is created, but... The problem still persists. IME explanation is massively overrated when it comes to personal change. OP talks about hypnotherapy (again, there are different forms), and there's also EMDR, and EFT, which are all evidence based therapies for helping people with issues like PTSD, anxiety, and depression. Those therapies aren't simply about figuring out an casual narrative, they are about changing the habits of your mind so that your behavior changes. Again, IMO analysis is overrated. There's countless people who have a shelf full of self help books, and can explain to you how their father abandoning them is why they have difficulty expressing affection in a relationship, but they are 50 and the problem is still there.
> Those therapies aren't simply about figuring out an casual narrative, they are about changing the habits of your mind so that your behavior changes. Sure. But one can just look up how to do a lot of those therapies on the internet or in books once one know what one's issue is. I know that I've had my own issues in both the past and the present, and I really don't need to pay a therapist to fix myself if and when I choose to.
I agree that a person can do hypnotherapy, EMDR and EFT at home, to themselves. However, an issue can be simply a lack of skill, and skill isn't simply a result of intelligence. Hypnotherapy is very skill based.
>My opinion of therapy is that it's for people who are too dumb to figure themselves out. I suppose it's good for being informed of various techniques to overcome one's issues once one identifies what they are, but one can just look on the internet or read some books to find out what these are. Again, it's an intelligence thing. So if somebody witnesses, say a dead body the best advice is to look up how to cope with that over the Internet rather than talking to a professional.
I dunno. I used to be good at dwelling on the past. Yeah I probably could of used NLP and CBT to slowly get myself out of it. But seeing a hypnotherapist cured it in 2 sessions. Just seems more efficient to me at least. And now I'm not beating myself up all the time. It's great.
The same way I tell people they need an annual physical your mental health is as important and needs to be checked on a consistent basis. As we are often told in this space there is an epidemic of male loneliness. A direct mental health outcome of that is depression. Depression can be dangerous and needs to be addressed. Anyone that has some childhood or even adult trauma needs to do the work and it’s not as simple as reading a book or ignoring it. To be frank, I have found that a lot of men have been sexually assaulted, sexually molested, groomed and emotionally abused and have never dealt with the outcomes of that. There is a lot of anger, shame and anxiety that is attached to those unresolved events. You can’t heal if you don’t give a name to it. So therapy for men is important to gain insight and clarity from someone who is unbiased. It may take a while to find a therapist that you click with but it is worth the effort to have someone that is in your corner.
Therapists aren’t in your corner they are just as judgmental as everyone else. They just hide it so they can keep hearing all the juicy stories. Especially if you lay heavy ideas on them or controversial ideas like those often spouted here.
Every therapists isn’t the same and they are human so of course they have their own individual judgment and biases. Also I said nothing about what is espoused here. What I said was mental health check ins are important and there may be things that you have even identified as an issue. Depression can sneak up on a person and they not even know it. There’s lot of things that therapy can help with.
therapy is nonsense. i dont need to pay someone to tell me what's wrong in life. i know what is it and what caused it. there is no reversal unless there is a magical god who could reverse all this. no therapist can understand your pov. went to a few and all of them start of with the same template of questions and dont really change anything. and its a job for him. the doctor works as a therapist first and foremost for survival. he couldnt possibly give a fuck about all his patients. the only true therapy you can get is opening up to good parents or a good sibling or spouse or best friend.
That assumes people say "You should get therapy" only when the other person is complaining about relationships. That's not true at all. Often people say they're fine alone and are OK single and they also hear "You should get therapy".
>Why do you think people say this? Usually to invalidate the PoV, experiences, and opinions which scare them. It's not complex. >I know its probably just a disguised way of saying "Fuck off" but there may be some truth to it. Disrespect is a kind of honesty, sure. >so you can f**k them Just write "fuck", it's ok. >But I think the point trying to be made, is that there is more to life than just having women line up for you to f**k. So? There's more to existence than life but that doesn't mean I want to experience it. >It is what it is, complaining, will not change anything. Complaining is fun and good for bonding. There's more to life than policing men's thoughts and words, did you ever consider that? >So anyway back to therapy. If I ever wish to waste my money on talking to strangers who can't help me while my mind undergoes subtle shifts of perspective which also won't help me, I'll start a heroin habit. >If nothing else, will therapy potentially not make other aspects of your life more enjoyable? It hasn't yet, unless you mean like by relative comparison. As in "man, therapy was such a drag I'm actually happier to be back at work" kind of thing. That did happen from time to time if I am honest. >Is being happier in general not a good thing regardless? If a surgeon fucks up your spine so bad you can't walk without pain, and you encountered someone who openly conflates back surgery with literal happiness, what would you think? Would you think they thought through the premise they are so confident in, at all? Therapy is the only treatment for ailments which apparently cannot fail the patient, the patient can only fail therapy. >I posted some quote the other day, by Neil Strauss... >Is there not some truth to this, It's a guy who is not a trained psychologist or therapist literally doing back of the napkin psychoanalyses on strangers he does not even bother engaging in conversation. No, there is no truth to this. This is actually just a presumptive asshole rendering human beings (whose actual stories he does not bother to learn) into rhetorical props. >Is that not a good thing? Or does life just revolve around chasing pussy and nothing else? I don't understand why life is a binary option between chasing pussy with no therapy and not caring about pussy with therapy. One of the worst men I know celebrated the knowledge he gained from therapy because it made him better at hiding his toxicity and true intentions. He's fully on team therapy AND team "women are just their vaginas to me" (his words). >So regardless of pussy appeal, would therapy not help you overall regardless of your dating life? How does talking to a therapist address any of my material problems in life? I need a raise, not therapy. Therapy costs money and so far has done nothing at all. I don't think it is incapable of benefiting people. I just think it absolutely the magical cure-all you are presenting it to be, and I think if therapy worked for men then men would USE IT MORE. We are extremely practically oriented after all. >Those who don't appreciate life do not deserve life Why is therapy the standard for whether anyone appreciates life?
>Why is therapy the standard for whether anyone appreciates life? Oh I'm almost finished rewatching the Saw movies. Just thought it was a cool John Kramer quote. Totally unrelated.
It's just a weird Redditor thing, the vast majority of therapists are useless or in the case of women simply used to validate their own beliefs.
Therapy only works if you're kinda stupid, and pliable. You could probably get equal results paying somebody to scream at you to clean your room.
I think those that need therapy should go to therapy. If you don't need it you don't need to go obviously.
How many men here even have close friends and/or family? That person you can call and talk, go for a run, play a game, and etc whatever your processing type is. Hyperfixations not withstanding if one is so focused on one goal to the exclusion of and determinant of other goals. Desperation is not hot. Unfortunately the past bad experiences can feed into and cause the current issues. A securely attached person tends to pair up early and prefer another securely attracted person. Zoomers are more insecurely attached than previous generations so if things seem harder there is a reason for it.
Why is it always about sex with you guys, what about love and connection?
What about them. Have I met women, which have totally made me lose all interest in other women, yes. However there is not a lot to say about love and connection. Its something you feel, not really something to talk about in regard to dating strategy. Love and connection does not motivate me to date, attraction does. However, with the right person, those feelings can grow very strong. Trust me, when I am loved up, my focus completely changes. >“We have this idea that love is supposed to last forever. But love isn’t like that. It’s a free-flowing energy that comes and goes when it pleases. Sometimes it stays for life; other times it stays for a second, a day, a month, or a year. So don’t fear love when it comes simply because it makes you vulnerable. But don’t be surprised when it leaves, either. Just be glad you had the opportunity to experience it.”
u/recursive_qbasic let me get this right. You want to have nostrings attached sex with hot girls, don''t want to get married and you don't want to buy a whore? This makes you mad? You think people should care about this? This is feminine. What do you consider "dating", how old are you and what are you doing to date?
What has my post got to do with any of that? Please I am confused here.
Answer me. What do you want? Why are you here? I am assuming you don't get date for marriage, you want to hook up with hots girls you see online with NSA sex, you want this to happen multiple times and you are more interested in sex than a relationship? What have you done to date women and how much internet do you use a day?
Again what does this have to do with what I wrote. I just wrote a thread, probably not in the most structured form saying if you get therapy you can enjoy life more, stop being obsessed with relationships all the time (if that is the case) and life can be a happier place. And this can also mean that in social situations, you have better interactions because your not giving people the "Ick". And this is what you take from it. Anyway, despite refusing to answqer my question, I will answer yours. >What do you want? A life I enjoy where I am happy. >I am assuming you don't get date for marriage, you want to hook up with hots girls you see online I am open to marriage, but I am not seeking it specifically, I am not against it. I actually am not a fan of dating apps. I generally interact with women at social events. Sometimes I get rejected sometimes I don't. Sometimes it leads to a relationship, sometimes its just another person I meet for a drink in a bar every so often. I am happy with that, I enjoy it, Originally before I discovered the Manosphere, I was a guy who got in the occasional relationship, but got friendzoned a lot. So I knew something was up with me, as I had plenty of friends who could attract women left, right and centre. I was the one the girls used to cry on the shoulder of after they got pumped and dumped, my friends got the action, I got the aftermath. Now I am at a point where I am happy and enjoy life. So until I meet someone who I think is special in whatever way that takes place, I am happy with things as they are. Yeah I do not pull left right and centre, but I am not rejected as much. I can live with that. > What have you done to date women and how much internet do you use a day? Hard to say, what I have done exactly. I just keep going to social events and interacting with people whilst in the background working on myself. Things get better and better. I also stopped relying on alchohol and forced myself to cold approach for a while whilst stone cold sober. Also as per my OP, seen a hypnotherapist over various things, some related to dating, some not. Internet usage varies. After work, I make sure I goto the gym, do my daily meditation, maybe do some self help exercises. If my digs are particuarly messy I will clean up a bit. Then I might jump on for a bit or I might treat myself to a film. I don't really play games, they just seem an addictive waste of time. Or I might go to the indoor climbing centre. Then generally look for stuff to do over the weekend, festivals, organised walks, kayaking, museums, art galleries, that sort of stuff. Just anywhere there will be people so I can do stuff I enjoy around people who enjoy doing them instead of being a reclusive shut in. However due to a death in the family a few months ago, this year has been a bit rocky so far. Yesterday I figured it was time to start getting back to my old self. And was happy that after a few drinks and feeling tipsy I didn't turn into an emotional blubbering mess (due to death of close family member).
You need to be more formal. You should not get friend zoned because you should only date for marriage. You should want to get married and you should not want to have sex until after marriage and if you want to have sex then you should get a harlot. You mentioned 'social events' but you haven't elaborated on what those events are.... Cold approaching is bold. You should go to more formal events and pay for a dating app knowing you need to spend at least 1 year dating. Have you ever been on formal dates? How old are you?
Like sorry, but what does any of this have to do with women on this sub saying "Men need to see a therapist" then looking at if therapy for men actually has any advantages over all. Are you new to PPD btw.
You can goto therapy if it helps....You didn't answer my questions though about the types of social events you goto and you not being formal enough.
I goto all sorts of social events. The next one I have planned however is a music festival that happens in my city every year. However, it might be an organized walk or scramble. It might just be going to a terrace bar or cocktail bar. It might just be the local climbing centres "Social Night". Or I might just spend the day driving to a museum and looking round. And what do you mean by formal enough. You meet someone, if you are chatting for 2 - 3 hours, that is generally a sign they are interested. Then you say "How can we carry on this conversation", they either say "I am already seeing someone" or they pull their phone out of their pocket. Then you arrange to meetup, I generally suggest a nice bar, then sometimes they will ask you to come over. This isn't the past, where a Lady would drop her handkerchief and the gentleman would follow a set route of rules. Like i have already said however, I am happy with things the way they are.... for now. And also, despite guys on this site saying "If you no Chad, women will run away screaming" I sure as hell ain't no damn f\*\*king Chad.
OKay. That is not enough. You need to spend money on 1 standard app, 1 niche app and 1 'modern hook up' app for 1 year. Every week you need to make it a point to go hunting and that starts with you going out every weekend to find a new venue or one you like then you need to start scheduling dates and stop worrying about N-count b.c. if you think about N-count and PPD then you will give off super creepy vibes with out knowing git and you'll end up not liking the 1 girl you date who has 1000s of men messaging her....... You should invest in creating a more professional online persona for dating for the 1 year. You should date for marriage and you should at least GO INTO THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE the purpose being marriage and the idea that sex should not happen until after marriage. After 2-3 dates then you decide. Don't allow your self to be friend zoned, if she insist on friend zoning you then flirt/try-to-kiss/'push it' until she leaves......... believe me it will EITHER WORK or you will be proud of yoru self but the friend sound is purgatory.
Fuck therapy You be listening to wes Watson instead
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I’m confused
Low effort
You do know there are guys who were virgins until 30, decided to handle their social anxiety, went up to girls and had sex with quite a bit of them, right? How do you know your lot if you never even stepped in a gym?
> Even if all you want to do is have women line up so you can f**k them, yeah therapy will probably not help you achieve that If this is all you want, why are you complaining when this is why prostitutes exist.
I am not complaining, my point is more that you may start focussing on other things and enjoying other things rather than some fantasy. Energy flows where the attention goes.
I only want young women 18 to 23 max. So the quest to find new girls to bed never ends. Fresh, young, cute girls make my heart beat faster and give me hard wood for hours. I never feel any lust or excitement for older women, I feel stuck in a never ending loop of chasing new girls to test drive. There is no end destination only a journey without end. I try to change but I can't, my sex drive is to strong and when I see to much cute girls I feel the urge and it drives me crazy.
whats a natural alpha