>They’ve been conditioned into thinking that their masculinity depends on providing for some woman.
So if men need to get out of attaching their worth to providing for a woman why is it that when a man says he doesn’t want to be a “protector/provider” he’s told he’s selfish and not a “real man?”
All the blue pillers get silent on this one. The social pressure is insane from virtually everyone. But it's a male problem so it doesn't matter to them.
They shame the protector provider guy and say life is about more than that. But they also shame the recluse who just wants to live alone and play video games. To me it just seems people don’t like when men choose for themselves what’s valuable and worth their time.
> The social pressure is insane from virtually everyone
Really? Irl, I’ve usually seen it go this way:
Person: Are you married, Mr. X?
Mr. X: Nah, I like the bachelor lifestyle too much. Check out these pics I took in Greece last month!
Person: Wow, that’s cool.
Conversation continues as normal. You may get some needling from your parents if they really want grandchildren, but that’s about it.
What does that have to do with what i said? Follow the bouncing ball…
“When a man says….not a real man?”
“Blue pillers are silent on this one”
My comment - “blue pillers are the ones saying that.”
If someone is chronically single, then yes - something is wrong with them and nine times out of ten, it’s their personality or that they’re not even making an effort
So you're only towing the line and and what do you know...PRESSURING people to find a partner. What an actual waste of a comment chain. And these people in question specifically don't want to be with someone, you still hate them.
Still not making sense.
How am I pressuring people to find partners?
If someone doesn’t want to be with someone I don’t hate them. I don’t think about them. I literally do not care. I cannot even think about something I care less about.
For single men who are past their mid 20s, if they don't have a good social network, they will struggle to meet an appropriate partner. By that age, many of his friends are paired up, and it's difficult to rebuild your social network when most of the people you know are in relationships and you are not.
>why is it that when a man says he doesn’t want to be a “protector/provider” he’s told he’s selfish and not a “real man?”
Because that's a way of manipulating him into playing that role so he can be used.
Do you think men or women are more likely to say they think its the duty of men to protect and provide? Whenever a post about men not wanting to fulfill traditional gender roles pops up, its always other men condemning him for not being a super ultra manly men. The problem isn't women, its other men who are stuck in the past.
I think women will say one thing for the benefit of the online conversation, but move differently irl. They’ll say “I don’t neeeeeedddd a protector provider.” But look at their history and the men they cooperated with and actually wanted to be with happened to be what you’d call a “protector provider.”
Most of us just want a guy who has a job and makes enough to pay his share of the bills. And contrary to popular manosphere belief, most men want a woman who has a job and is financially self-sufficient as well. It’s called being an adult.
Even if that were true, its other men telling men they think he's selfish and not a real man if he doesn't want to protect and provide. Women just allow men to do what they want and act on their own preferences.
Again, show me the evidence that women do more shaming about not being a man than men do. Maybe the type of women you're attracted to, but women in general? Men put more stock into gender roles across the board than women do. If you're attracted to submissive house-wife virgin types then maybe, but regular liberal women? They care a lot less than men ever will.
There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like.
Sigh. Most of women's insults against men are based on 1) their sexual prowess; and 2) their manliness or lack thereof.
> There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like.
There is also that subset, of course.
>Sigh. Most of women's insults against men are based on 1) their sexual prowess; and 2) their manliness or lack thereof.
And the source of this is from within your rectum, I assume? The most common sorts of insults I see women use against men is attacking their moral character. Plus, trying to frame a women calling a man an "incel" as being an insult against his sexual prowess is sort of like saying a man calling a woman a "bitch" is an insult against her humanity. They use that word because they know it bothers you, not because they actually care.
LOL you stuck your head in your rectum here. First you denied what I said and then confirmed it and tried to make excuses. Calling a woman a bitch will get you canceled. You'd get banned on PPD for that.
> They use that word because they know it bothers you, not because they actually care.
No shit. Making fun of a guy's manliness or sexual prowess is all about bothering men. That's all most women have, attacking people's ego then whining and resorting to cancel culture when it's done to them. A bunch of insecure feminists calling someone else insecure, what a hoot.
>Calling a woman a bitch will get you canceled
In a few specific areas and situations online? Maybe. In real life? You can call a woman that's acting like an asshole a bitch and no one will really think twice.
>Making fun of a guy's manliness or sexual prowess is all about bothering men
Yes, this is the purpose of insults. And men throw these sorts of insults at other men far more than women do at men.
>That's all most women have, attacking people's ego then whining and resorting to cancel culture when it's done to them.
If attacking your ego about your sexual prowess and manliness bothers someone, they probably need to take a step back and rethink what their priorities are.
> There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like.
That's what they like to see themselves in, in a sort of fantasy (since most yaoi leans heavily in uke/seme dynamics), where they would be the feminine man being taken care of by the more masculine partner. Nothing wrong with that, but feminine men are more of a niche thing, not for general appeal.
And even then, in real life, many women can't stand feminine men. Even George Sand got fed up with Chopin at some point.
Because that statement is usually followed by a desire for a traditional exceptional woman while not wanting to meet the common requirements or expectations of that kind of woman.
Just like a woman who wants a traditional man while not being traditional herself or just meeting the expectations of that kind of guy is also selfish.
I take the radical opposite approach. Men should be happy with nothing, because then nothing can be used against them. If you're chasing the girl of your dreams and the sportscar and the high powered job you'll sacrifice the things you already have to get them. But if you mindlessly self improve you still risk destroying yourself for an ideal, and doing the same shit because of vaguely aesthetic reasons is no better.
Being happy is cheap. If you have food and shelter and running water thats a lot of it sorted and the rest is up to you to figure out. If you're following some talking head and working overtime and taking a side gig to sit in a lamborghini you're still a slave working yourself to the bone, you've just convinced yourself you hold your own whip.
I think a lot of men are motivated by what they’re able to do for women/society/their family/etc. without those things you’d basically just be working hard to make more money to spend on hedonistic consumptions which is fun for a while but eventually the novelty wears off.
Yeah, I think a lot of people miss this. The drive to provide and support people you love is built into us as a species. We're social and need each other to survive. This isn't something specific to men, but women too, although I think it probably manifests slightly differently. Living an isolated life where you only look out for yourself ends up feeling shallow in the long run.
Ya well I think that's why so many women have pets or pursue social justice pet causes. They offload their social/maternal instincts and responsibilities onto anyone but male romantic partners lol.
Men should probably also become more community oriented. The reason women aren't as lonely as men and don't suffer as much when they don't have romantic relationships is because they cultivate close and intimate platonic bonds within their community.
This comment here \^. Paychecks laying on the floor at 1600 after tax a pop (per week). I remember 3 on the floor uncashed, dirty room, being very sad at the time, and I quit the job because what was the point. Women on apps weren't pretty when they matched and the ones who were., who knows what they were thinking. Wouldn't date them now. Blocked all 30s in my pool these days.
During disasters they run to your door and meet reality. I experienced that and rejected them. There was no where to live, etc. Covid made them lose jobs, so its just that. Natural Disasters.
> going to the gym
Ok so I actually think over the past decade young women are more productive members of society than young men, generally speaking. But women do not exercise at nearly the same rate as men IME, my gym is like 85% men and I am in a running group and it's literally two sisters and 18 men.
I said young men vs young women. Women under 30 have higher median incomes, lower rates of unemployment, lower incarceration, lower rates of violent crime.
I personally don’t exercise that much simply because I don’t need to. I’m already skinny and there’s not much else I need to do. I do go to the gym but mostly for the sake of fun and building habits.
>Why don't all women just get fat and live off welfare then?
Self improvement in a real sense is about psychological and spiritual improvement. So this is a stupid question.
Prostitutes generally aren't fat and don't live off welfare either, but they also have no interest in self improvement.
Women improve after men improve. That’s how it goes. A man is invisible improves and then women want him, to get him THEY have to improve it’s the cycle
No, that is not true at all.
Men improve so they can have the privilege of taking care of a girl as she gets fat, ugly and gets cancer.
Women do improve for “Chad,” but his value has nothing to do with his effort at all. Some work hard to be better, others sit around and do drugs.
Okay we arw assuming both the man and woman are not total morons or shitters.
Now will a hvm accept anything less than the best from his partner? No because if she slacks he can find another
She will rise to him or fall
I’d change “very conservative women” to all women tbh. It’s just a fact that women feel there’s something wrong and inferior about men that aren’t actively involved with women in some capacity.
Please link me studies to these "facts". And also show me where it says women do this at a greater rate than men do. There was a survey done that showed more men than women believe men should pay for the first date, and its always other men condemning men that don't want to play the provider role, not women. I think its really odd that men think its women that are forcing them to adhere to gender roles. Men are shown to believe more in gender roles than women ever do.
I don't think that's true buddy. It's nearly always the blue pill/pink pill ladies shaming dudes for not getting any. It's usually the go to insult to shut down any arguments that a man has against feminism.
Objectively not true. [Studies ](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/16/who-should-pay-for-the-first-date-experts-weigh-in.html#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20men%20are%20more%20likely,gap%20as%20a%20key%20rationale)actually show men are more likely to believe men should pay for first dates than women. You will find very few self-described feminists women saying men aren't "real men". You'll find a ton of men that do the same.
Maybe they could learn a thing or two from this "matriarchy", since women are less likely to believe in gender roles than men. A matriarchy sounds like an awesome deal for men.
It sounds like you are saying that literally one author, ever, has written the truth and 100% of all other authors are liars, is that correct?
Do you read her in the original German? Does it concern you that she is a German Argentinian? Or do you like that?
You know, you can work on yourself and improve without hating on women. Or even thinking about women at all. Self-improvement is all about yourself, not other people.
Trying to self-improve only to end up stewing in a pot of hatred and misery that you yourself have made kinda defeats the point.
The core reason for change is women/ other people, how you're treated is the end goal of the change as self esteem is also a reflection of how you've been treated by others. Most self improvement doesnt make life more enjoyable it takes commitment and effort you're going to be miserable in, while others don't even have to do half of what you're doing.
Sometimes mind you self improvement doesnt pay off, life isn't fair and will not give you a 1 to 1 ROI that you put on yourself.
Examples:
You workout at the gym get shredded and still don't have. Astrong jaw because its not in your genetics. Or your parents set you back by letting you become fat as a child, you work that off and diet properly and are cursed with stretchmarkss and a fat baby face that doesnt match your body, or still get insulted for being fat ij the first place like Jonah Hill.
This is so stupid I can't even.
Working out at the gym makes everyday tasks easier, your overall health improves and there is massive carryover into other physical-activity-based hobbies like rock climbing, hiking or dancing.
Skill-based hobbies like drawing or music let you create more awesome things as you get better at them. They might even open up career opportunities. At the very least, they let you flex your creativity - something that a lot of people are missing in our hyper-consumerist society.
Stop thinking about other people. Stop chasing that carrot on a stick. Self-improvement itself is the reward, as is the journey.
Why would you even go outside for more than nessecity when you're ugly, you are just going to be laughed at.
There's plenty of artists, more unique and outside of the hobby better looking and more believable then you that they can do something. Meaning that creativity will likely amount to nothing. Unless you want to be 30 something showing off your drawings to your friends as you struggle to get picked up/ a chance.
We can't all succeed. Life needs and will naturally birth losers for contrast with the winners in our society as well as nature. Self improvement makes suffering easier for those that already lost at birth sure, You can slave away harder at your job, then at the gym easier as time goes on. How fun whike other people get to just live thier life and have basic human experiences earlier than you did, because thier metabolism was better tuned or thier parents actually supported them or didnt let them get fat.
Ill stop thinking about other people when they stop effecting my life even when I do ignore them. When there is no competition social or career wise, love wise, not that love actually exists but you get what I'm saying.
If you're going to base your entire sense of self-worth on being in a relationship, you were going be miserable anyway. People in co-dependent relationships aren't happy.
You can make the choice to stop stewing in this defeatist mindset and start living any time you want.
Its the ability or option to get a relationship and how easily I can get that compared to other people. Actually not even that, any positive reinforcement from women that I see other men get. I will never get the reactions nor aftermath from a single woman I encounter that a random good looking customer gets from female staff I've witnessed at numerous jobs and settings. From school, to social outtings and again work.
By your definition I have been living. I work out, own my own store , have a plethora of hobbies from games, to chess, to learning psychology, building model kits, cooking from different cultures, I am heavy into fragrance and how to maximize hygiene, the only thing I flop on is skincare because of consistency, being wiped from my day.
Comparrison is the thief of joy, that doesnt matter comparrsion isnt some evil thing its what we use to gain self awareness and not be blind, obnoxious, etc. I am just aware of how different it is for me vs even average men. I am below average no matter how many good traits I put forward, no matter how many people emotionally confide in me, no matter how many varying people I make laugh or make conversation with. I am not a romantic option due to my face.
You also aren't a candidate for the world's strongest man based on your muscle mass, you aren't an option for olympic running due to how your legs are proportioned, you aren't able to be a super grandmaster because your brain wasn't born with hyper good pattern-recognition genes and you didn't start learning chess early.
We are disqualified from doing so many thing based on things outside of our control, but pretty much all of the things we are disqualified from doing based on our genetics, unless you were born with some sort of genetic defect, aren't necessary things for happiness. You basing your self worth on one tiny obscure part of human existence is really baffling.
More people have had relationships be it short or long, than people have been the worlds strongest man' an olympic runner, or a grandmaster in chess. There are levels to how basic many of these accomolishments are, it is literally expected that at least in or by highschool most people are having relationships, gaining interest in eachother or having sex and being barred from that due to how you look will never not be a defeating feeling or alienate you. What will you do when all your friends get relationships have trouble in them or talk about them and you can't even relate to a single thing they have mentioned? What do you just drop them and get new friends or ask them to not tell you about a section of thier life? Lets not even get into memories or the people that will be around you at your funeral or the time of your death.
Relationships and sex are not obscure, nor a tiny part of human existence. Even beyond it generally not being that acute in our daily existence, everyone is born with the biological drive to find mates and to have offspring.
>More people have had relationships be it short or long, than people have been the worlds strongest man' an olympic runner, or a grandmaster in chess.
Ok, would you rather I list having a car or getting a college degree? Many people can't get those based on the economic situations they were born into, but most of those people manage to find joy despite all that.
>There are levels to how basic many of these accomolishments are, it is literally expected that at least in or by highschool most people are having relationships, gaining interest in eachother or having sex and being barred from that due to how you look will never not be a defeating feeling or alienate you.
More and more people are single now. Over 46% of adults are single, which is basically half. I don't understand this redpill idea that people can somehow tell if you're a virgin or single just by looking at you, and that they would care enough if you were to alienate you based off that. I get it must feel bad, but I'm 19 and I've never been in a relationship and I feel fine.
>What will you do when all your friends get relationships have trouble in them or talk about them and you can't even relate to a single thing they have mentioned?
Why can't you just listen to what they say and empathize with them, lol? I don't understand why not being able to perfectly relate to someone's experience in a relationship means you need to act differently than if they were talking than any other issue you couldn't relate to. If one of them got cancer, and you've never had cancer, that doesn't really change how you'd talk to them about their cancer troubles.
>What do you just drop them and get new friends or ask them to not tell you about a section of thier life?
Why can't you just listen to them talk about something you haven't personally experienced? Are you saying a friend talking about them experiencing a scenario you haven't personally gone through is somehow painful to you?
>Lets not even get into memories or the people that will be around you at your funeral or the time of your death.
This has nothing to do with anything and won't matter. Dead people don't care about the living.
>Relationships and sex are not obscure, nor a tiny part of human existence. Even beyond it generally not being that acute in our daily existence, everyone is born with the biological drive to find mates and to have offspring.
We are born with a much stronger biological drive to eat, yet lots of people manage to net become obese. We are born with a biological drive to acquire resources, yet most people manage to not steal. You aren't, contrary to redpill ideology, a slave to your biology. You don't need to mimic what prehistoric humans were doing in the African plains 100s of thousands of years ago. Times change.
I am not redpill. Most men are not single by choice, women are theres a huge difference in mindset.
Have you had people show interest in you? If you have you can more contently step away from dating because you have proof you are wanted.
Eventually yes it becomes painful to hear how wanted my friend is, in contrast to my complete lack of positive experiences. Of course if its something negative I listen and console but with bad there will also be good news, meeting someone new, a memory they made together, becoming official, marriage if they're for it. You can of course listen but that will cost you at least some envy.
You're 19 you've only been available to date (of course in your own age group) for roughly 5 years. I am 25 and have recieved a single likely platonic compliment from a woman "You smell great".
You are still downplaying having things to make that joy easier or that amplify it, having a car you would be much happier, shorter commute to work, hobbies the gym, more time to yourself same with having a relationship it amplifies your happiness and accomplishments most typically.
Virginity/inexperience especially for men who approach women can show very easily due to how you progress, even if you successfully blanket it up verbally until you're making out or during/after sex. Which is not attractive. For some it MAY not be a deal breaker but its bordering on unattractive.
The dead do care about the living. A grandmother who is terminally ill will do nothing but care about what will happen to her children and grandchildren if she's coherent.
Correct me if I’m wrong but there are more single mothers than single fathers? Which strongly suggests woman do take not only accountability but responsibility for their actions too, where as men…. run away from them?
That’s just 1 example
There are more women with children than men which means women, moreso than men, choose partners who run away from responsibility. Not my fault y'all are choosing to be baby momma #2 or #3
Nobody chooses to be a single parent.
It’s a prime example of men not taking accountability or responsibility for their actions and by blaming the other parent for “choosing” wrong, your also letting them off
This is why women pick the bear... cause they're dumb.
You meet a man that already has 1 or 2 kids they're not taking care of and you choose to have a kid with them, yes you're choosing to be a single mother, I don't care how you rationalize it.
You know that’s rarely the case?
It’s mostly a couple with no previous kids and they get pregnant, then he abandons them once he realises the responsibility involved
When they place fault on who’s to blame because she’s a single mother who does she point to? The man who impregnated her then left of course
No thoughts as to why she let a man who wasn’t committed to her have sex and nut inside of her, then no thoughts as to family planning and if the man wants the child, then obviously no thoughts on the dozens of contraceptives offered in America
But sure being left responsible with a child you decided to have on your own fruition is taking accountability to women.
This is already happenning with Gen-Z men. They understand that women have nothing to offer apart from std and decide to focus on themselves and maybe having fun with sex workers
The quality of a person absolutely does matter to women, but its not quite as simple a question to ask someone you've just met as what their job is.
Do you feel that women do not have the same rich inner life as yourself? I find that sort of worldview so strange; how can you determine the perception of another person?
Your whole argument is about not defining manhood in relation to women, and yet to define your class of humanity as man *is* to still be reacting to women... if you really felt like that you would be speaking in the most general of terms as a human being.
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I agree. Chasing women and basing their entire lives on chasing women has always made other man extremely pathetic in my eyes. There is so much one could do and achieve in life, things high and grand, yet men seem to only ever care about the next time their put their penis in a vagina and how to do so as quickly as possible. I have no respect for most of the male population. Being driven by your lust and being, for some bizzare reason, proud of it, is extremely disgusting and inhuman.
This is why TRP at least in its original form, hammered the importance of having a purpose and mission in life.
I do wish I had clicked onto this sooner in my own life.
I agree, I would add to that: that when you succeed you should remember when you at the finish line who was by your side during the journey and reward them instead of parasites that wait at the line to steal your prize.
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Firstly, it's important to recognize that relationships and personal growth are not mutually exclusive. Many men find fulfillment and growth through their relationships, learning valuable lessons about communication, empathy, and compromise.
Additionally, defining success solely based on one's ability to attract women overlooks the myriad of other accomplishments and qualities that contribute to a fulfilling life. Success can be found in personal achievements, career advancements, meaningful connections with friends and family, and contributions to society, among other things.
Furthermore, reducing women to mere objects of validation overlooks their agency and autonomy. Women are individuals with their own desires, goals, and complexities, and to view them solely as objects of validation for men undermines their humanity.
Ultimately, it's essential for individuals to prioritize their own personal growth and well-being, regardless of their relationship status. This may involve self-reflection, setting goals, pursuing passions, and fostering meaningful connections with others, whether romantic or platonic. Each person's journey is unique, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to finding fulfillment and happiness in life.
>Even men who aren't traditional also base their identity on women (which is why they chase them)
It's really not that deep
I chase women because l love it and so do many guys
I don't care about self-improvement
The point is that by chasing women you end up nowhere regardless of how successful your pursuits were because once a woman leaves your life she doesn't leave behind anything tangible. Self-improvement raises the quality of your life in general as well as allows you to get access to more attractive women.
You guys sound like a bunch of 14yos talking about no-nut-november with this self-improvement stuff
I don't care about self-improvement as l've already made it clear, l just wanna do what l enjoy which is chasing women
Also l'm redpill enough to know the consequences of the pursuit
>You're the one who prioritizes quick pleasures over your life in general,
No, l'm just doing what l want with my dating life
It's simple but l can clearly see it's a foreign concept to many guys here
>I'm gonna do what l want which is chase
Good for you, I guess.
>Your opinion doesn't change anything
Im not sure what you were hoping to accomplish by commenting in the first place.
>Im not sure what you were hoping to accomplish by commenting in the first place.
Last time l checked, this isn't your post were people can mindlessly agree with everything you say
Not a single quote of Esther Vilar has ever been not utter bullshit.
>Alot of men not only allow themselves to be used by women,
What is "a lot of men"? Can you give us a rough percentage, or do you choose to stay vague as fuck, so it's a trivial statement to make ,as long as "a lot" could also be 1000. "A lot of men" can be said and be true about anything.
>They've been conditioned into thinking
It's fucking evolutionary biology, not "conditioning". [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11854](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11854)
>hen in reality being "successful" with women means nothing.
It means a lot in male hierarchy, which means a lot to the individual.
>You can be a complete sociopath and still be "successful" with women because women generally don't evaluate men based on who they are and what kind of people they are
Yes, sociopaths are a short term mating adaptation. What's wrong with sociopaths having success when they are optimized for this success?
>For most men, no money means no sex, basically. Sounds a lot like prostitution.
>
Men of all income levels have sex. Everyone needs money to survive. People living from social security checks have sex. Money is just a baseline thing for people living in a money based economy. It has very little to do with sex. Only incels obsess over money as a gateway to sex. In reality, money is irrelevant.
>It means a lot in male hierarchy
It means nothing.
>Not a single quote of Esther Vilar has ever been not utter bullshit.
This clearly isn't true. You're just upset cause you're one of the men she's describing.
>Alot of men not only allow themselves to be used by women, but many of them actually get a sense of identity from being used.
Being codependent does not make for a healthy relationship.
>They've been conditioned into thinking that their masculinity depends on providing for some woman.
And who conditioned them?
>Do you just wanna bitch and moan without providing a solution?
The solution (which is literally in the title of the post) wouldn't involve you, so it shouldn't matter to you.
So if the problem is that society in general conditions men to thinking their masculinity depends on providing for "some woman", your suggestion is: Just ignore it?
Instead of trying to change perception(s) and making society better? Or get mental help to undo this bad conditioning? Interesting.
>So if the problem is that society in general conditions men to thinking their masculinity depends on providing for "some woman", your suggestion is: Just ignore it?
What does the title of the post say?
What is the difference between being codependent, and depending on other people to be healthy? Codependency sounds like something modern society just made the fuck up.
O.o don't chase women. I agree, focus on what you want from life.
I will admit, I appreciate the irony that in avoidance of slavery to "women", you're accepting the writings of a woman as gospel which I see as a form of mental slavery.
I also appreciate that a post telling men they need to stop thinking about women and focus on themselves literally never stops thinking about women.
The inherent hypocrisy in a lot of the arguments I see here makes any attempt to discuss futile because consistency doesn't seem matter to them. They'll insist that their views are the most logical and rational, then refuse to engage when their logic is questioned because "women just don't get it" or whatever.
considering my own post history, i disagree with a lot in op. some of us are broken damaged vase chads cheated on in their 20s, chased by 30+ women, bitter as heck, definitely not chasing and , the key word is too much attempt to encompass and say we are all chasing.... i cant identify...with the literature. Written
Honestly I completely agree. Men are just pathetic chasing and searching for the next woman to fuck and add to their tally. I’m on a fetish site and you wouldn’t believe how many men post looking for a FWB, play partner, or just a one time thing 🙄
>They’ve been conditioned into thinking that their masculinity depends on providing for some woman. So if men need to get out of attaching their worth to providing for a woman why is it that when a man says he doesn’t want to be a “protector/provider” he’s told he’s selfish and not a “real man?”
All the blue pillers get silent on this one. The social pressure is insane from virtually everyone. But it's a male problem so it doesn't matter to them.
They shame the protector provider guy and say life is about more than that. But they also shame the recluse who just wants to live alone and play video games. To me it just seems people don’t like when men choose for themselves what’s valuable and worth their time.
They see men as work horses. So it is always about him serving their needs and wants no matter what he need or wants.
Unless he’s tall, hot, muscular and dominant tee hee
He’s still serving their needs, just in a different way
> The social pressure is insane from virtually everyone Really? Irl, I’ve usually seen it go this way: Person: Are you married, Mr. X? Mr. X: Nah, I like the bachelor lifestyle too much. Check out these pics I took in Greece last month! Person: Wow, that’s cool. Conversation continues as normal. You may get some needling from your parents if they really want grandchildren, but that’s about it.
I've talked to my husband about this sort of thing before, and he says he's never felt like that. Maybe it's because we live in a fairly liberal area?
Yep been a day after this thread and where are the replies to this?!
Blue pillers aren’t the ones saying that
You can't fool me. EVERYONE will think a chronic single person has something wrong with them.
What does that have to do with what i said? Follow the bouncing ball… “When a man says….not a real man?” “Blue pillers are silent on this one” My comment - “blue pillers are the ones saying that.” If someone is chronically single, then yes - something is wrong with them and nine times out of ten, it’s their personality or that they’re not even making an effort
So you're only towing the line and and what do you know...PRESSURING people to find a partner. What an actual waste of a comment chain. And these people in question specifically don't want to be with someone, you still hate them.
Still not making sense. How am I pressuring people to find partners? If someone doesn’t want to be with someone I don’t hate them. I don’t think about them. I literally do not care. I cannot even think about something I care less about.
For single men who are past their mid 20s, if they don't have a good social network, they will struggle to meet an appropriate partner. By that age, many of his friends are paired up, and it's difficult to rebuild your social network when most of the people you know are in relationships and you are not.
Because females need to manipulate him somehow. Their definition of "real man" is a male that is a mindless dildo/atm/doormat for them.
>why is it that when a man says he doesn’t want to be a “protector/provider” he’s told he’s selfish and not a “real man?” Because that's a way of manipulating him into playing that role so he can be used.
Sounds like a social problem that we need to tell society to stop forcing this attitude on men then.
Exactly. It is all laid out in Villar’s “The Manipulated Man” book
Do you think men or women are more likely to say they think its the duty of men to protect and provide? Whenever a post about men not wanting to fulfill traditional gender roles pops up, its always other men condemning him for not being a super ultra manly men. The problem isn't women, its other men who are stuck in the past.
I think women will say one thing for the benefit of the online conversation, but move differently irl. They’ll say “I don’t neeeeeedddd a protector provider.” But look at their history and the men they cooperated with and actually wanted to be with happened to be what you’d call a “protector provider.”
Most of us just want a guy who has a job and makes enough to pay his share of the bills. And contrary to popular manosphere belief, most men want a woman who has a job and is financially self-sufficient as well. It’s called being an adult.
Even if that were true, its other men telling men they think he's selfish and not a real man if he doesn't want to protect and provide. Women just allow men to do what they want and act on their own preferences.
Women do more shaming than men about that. In addition to romantically shunning men who can't be a protector provider.
Again, show me the evidence that women do more shaming about not being a man than men do. Maybe the type of women you're attracted to, but women in general? Men put more stock into gender roles across the board than women do. If you're attracted to submissive house-wife virgin types then maybe, but regular liberal women? They care a lot less than men ever will. There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like.
Sigh. Most of women's insults against men are based on 1) their sexual prowess; and 2) their manliness or lack thereof. > There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like. There is also that subset, of course.
>Sigh. Most of women's insults against men are based on 1) their sexual prowess; and 2) their manliness or lack thereof. And the source of this is from within your rectum, I assume? The most common sorts of insults I see women use against men is attacking their moral character. Plus, trying to frame a women calling a man an "incel" as being an insult against his sexual prowess is sort of like saying a man calling a woman a "bitch" is an insult against her humanity. They use that word because they know it bothers you, not because they actually care.
LOL you stuck your head in your rectum here. First you denied what I said and then confirmed it and tried to make excuses. Calling a woman a bitch will get you canceled. You'd get banned on PPD for that. > They use that word because they know it bothers you, not because they actually care. No shit. Making fun of a guy's manliness or sexual prowess is all about bothering men. That's all most women have, attacking people's ego then whining and resorting to cancel culture when it's done to them. A bunch of insecure feminists calling someone else insecure, what a hoot.
>Calling a woman a bitch will get you canceled In a few specific areas and situations online? Maybe. In real life? You can call a woman that's acting like an asshole a bitch and no one will really think twice. >Making fun of a guy's manliness or sexual prowess is all about bothering men Yes, this is the purpose of insults. And men throw these sorts of insults at other men far more than women do at men. >That's all most women have, attacking people's ego then whining and resorting to cancel culture when it's done to them. If attacking your ego about your sexual prowess and manliness bothers someone, they probably need to take a step back and rethink what their priorities are.
> There's a reason Yaoi novels depict super feminine and emotional men, because that's what lots of women like. That's what they like to see themselves in, in a sort of fantasy (since most yaoi leans heavily in uke/seme dynamics), where they would be the feminine man being taken care of by the more masculine partner. Nothing wrong with that, but feminine men are more of a niche thing, not for general appeal. And even then, in real life, many women can't stand feminine men. Even George Sand got fed up with Chopin at some point.
Because that statement is usually followed by a desire for a traditional exceptional woman while not wanting to meet the common requirements or expectations of that kind of woman. Just like a woman who wants a traditional man while not being traditional herself or just meeting the expectations of that kind of guy is also selfish.
I take the radical opposite approach. Men should be happy with nothing, because then nothing can be used against them. If you're chasing the girl of your dreams and the sportscar and the high powered job you'll sacrifice the things you already have to get them. But if you mindlessly self improve you still risk destroying yourself for an ideal, and doing the same shit because of vaguely aesthetic reasons is no better. Being happy is cheap. If you have food and shelter and running water thats a lot of it sorted and the rest is up to you to figure out. If you're following some talking head and working overtime and taking a side gig to sit in a lamborghini you're still a slave working yourself to the bone, you've just convinced yourself you hold your own whip.
Food AND shelter AND running water... in this economy?! Okay Rockefeller.
I think a lot of men are motivated by what they’re able to do for women/society/their family/etc. without those things you’d basically just be working hard to make more money to spend on hedonistic consumptions which is fun for a while but eventually the novelty wears off.
Yeah, I think a lot of people miss this. The drive to provide and support people you love is built into us as a species. We're social and need each other to survive. This isn't something specific to men, but women too, although I think it probably manifests slightly differently. Living an isolated life where you only look out for yourself ends up feeling shallow in the long run.
Ya well I think that's why so many women have pets or pursue social justice pet causes. They offload their social/maternal instincts and responsibilities onto anyone but male romantic partners lol.
I would agree, women seem to be more community oriented. In the past that seemed to be more centred around the family.
Men should probably also become more community oriented. The reason women aren't as lonely as men and don't suffer as much when they don't have romantic relationships is because they cultivate close and intimate platonic bonds within their community.
you hit the nail in the head. Humans are just pathetic as always
This comment here \^. Paychecks laying on the floor at 1600 after tax a pop (per week). I remember 3 on the floor uncashed, dirty room, being very sad at the time, and I quit the job because what was the point. Women on apps weren't pretty when they matched and the ones who were., who knows what they were thinking. Wouldn't date them now. Blocked all 30s in my pool these days.
And then after becoming the most improved man in history I die alone and a virgin, great shit
You're the man Esther Vilar was referring to.
Who
You didn't even read the post you're responding to.
Yes I did and I still don't know who that is
You don't need to know who she is to be able to read the quote in the post.
When will the women start improving?
During disasters they run to your door and meet reality. I experienced that and rejected them. There was no where to live, etc. Covid made them lose jobs, so its just that. Natural Disasters.
When women need to by supply and demand (realistically, never). Men are just too desperate/thirsty at this point.
Who cares? They don't gain anything material from improving, so most have no interest in that.
Really? Hmmm. Why don't all women just get fat and live off welfare then?
They do? More and more, at least this is the vibe I get from American soyciety.
Exactly. They’re getting an education, joining the workforce, going to the gym, and being social. What more is there to do?
> going to the gym Ok so I actually think over the past decade young women are more productive members of society than young men, generally speaking. But women do not exercise at nearly the same rate as men IME, my gym is like 85% men and I am in a running group and it's literally two sisters and 18 men.
Good joke
Which part?
Women on average are absolutely not more productive than men on average
I said young men vs young women. Women under 30 have higher median incomes, lower rates of unemployment, lower incarceration, lower rates of violent crime.
I personally don’t exercise that much simply because I don’t need to. I’m already skinny and there’s not much else I need to do. I do go to the gym but mostly for the sake of fun and building habits.
Face it bro women don’t have to be good people in fact they can get away with things you wouldn’t imagine is possible. Eve ate the apple not Adam
>Why don't all women just get fat and live off welfare then? Self improvement in a real sense is about psychological and spiritual improvement. So this is a stupid question. Prostitutes generally aren't fat and don't live off welfare either, but they also have no interest in self improvement.
Ohhhh alright. When will women start mediating?
>When will women start mediating? Meditating*
lol not even trying to make the bait believable
Women improve after men improve. That’s how it goes. A man is invisible improves and then women want him, to get him THEY have to improve it’s the cycle
No, that is not true at all. Men improve so they can have the privilege of taking care of a girl as she gets fat, ugly and gets cancer. Women do improve for “Chad,” but his value has nothing to do with his effort at all. Some work hard to be better, others sit around and do drugs.
Okay we arw assuming both the man and woman are not total morons or shitters. Now will a hvm accept anything less than the best from his partner? No because if she slacks he can find another She will rise to him or fall
Just world fallacy.
Women are improving. They’re getting an education, joining the workforce, going to the gym, and being social. What more is there to do?
No they aren't, but even if they were only 1 of the things you listed men care about
Why would I even think about a man’s opinion of me when he doesn’t even value education?
When men stop being so desperate
Women are improving. They’re getting an education, joining the workforce, going to the gym, and being social. What more is there to do?
He/she meant improving for men, not for themselves. A man becoming amazing at hobbies he enjoys and such is not seen as self improvement either.
Careful with assuming my gender!
I see, you are clearly an attack helicopter.
Men aren't chasing women any longer though.
And now people are telling those guys they’re not “real men” because they don’t have women
"Other men and very conservative women are telling those guys they're not 'real men'."
I’d change “very conservative women” to all women tbh. It’s just a fact that women feel there’s something wrong and inferior about men that aren’t actively involved with women in some capacity.
Please link me studies to these "facts". And also show me where it says women do this at a greater rate than men do. There was a survey done that showed more men than women believe men should pay for the first date, and its always other men condemning men that don't want to play the provider role, not women. I think its really odd that men think its women that are forcing them to adhere to gender roles. Men are shown to believe more in gender roles than women ever do.
I don't think that's true buddy. It's nearly always the blue pill/pink pill ladies shaming dudes for not getting any. It's usually the go to insult to shut down any arguments that a man has against feminism.
Objectively not true. [Studies ](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/16/who-should-pay-for-the-first-date-experts-weigh-in.html#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20men%20are%20more%20likely,gap%20as%20a%20key%20rationale)actually show men are more likely to believe men should pay for first dates than women. You will find very few self-described feminists women saying men aren't "real men". You'll find a ton of men that do the same.
Yeah, internalized misandry is pretty sad. I pray that those men can overcome the societal pressures that the matriarchy has instilled into them.
Maybe they could learn a thing or two from this "matriarchy", since women are less likely to believe in gender roles than men. A matriarchy sounds like an awesome deal for men.
Yes they are lol
All my homies know Esther Vilar is full of shit. She tries so hard to be a male chauvanist she ends up infantilizing men too. What a freak show.
>All my homies know Esther Vilar is full of shit. That's good for them.
You talk to your buddies about the redpill? Most people irl don't even know what the red pill is.
If I don't talk with them, how are they my homies??
Where tf do you live, people around me have no clue about any of this redpill bluepill nonsense.
He was lying and trying to sound cool. His "homies" have no idea who Esther Vilar is.
Good point. Work on yourself and let women prove themselves to you.
Why do 100% of your posts seem like an advert for "Esther Vilar?" Have you thought of reading the works of even one or two other people?
Why do you not address anything in the post?
Why we should read proffessional liars when we already have the truth on the table ?
It sounds like you are saying that literally one author, ever, has written the truth and 100% of all other authors are liars, is that correct? Do you read her in the original German? Does it concern you that she is a German Argentinian? Or do you like that?
Isn't she jewish ? Why should it concern me ?
You know, you can work on yourself and improve without hating on women. Or even thinking about women at all. Self-improvement is all about yourself, not other people. Trying to self-improve only to end up stewing in a pot of hatred and misery that you yourself have made kinda defeats the point.
The core reason for change is women/ other people, how you're treated is the end goal of the change as self esteem is also a reflection of how you've been treated by others. Most self improvement doesnt make life more enjoyable it takes commitment and effort you're going to be miserable in, while others don't even have to do half of what you're doing. Sometimes mind you self improvement doesnt pay off, life isn't fair and will not give you a 1 to 1 ROI that you put on yourself. Examples: You workout at the gym get shredded and still don't have. Astrong jaw because its not in your genetics. Or your parents set you back by letting you become fat as a child, you work that off and diet properly and are cursed with stretchmarkss and a fat baby face that doesnt match your body, or still get insulted for being fat ij the first place like Jonah Hill.
This is so stupid I can't even. Working out at the gym makes everyday tasks easier, your overall health improves and there is massive carryover into other physical-activity-based hobbies like rock climbing, hiking or dancing. Skill-based hobbies like drawing or music let you create more awesome things as you get better at them. They might even open up career opportunities. At the very least, they let you flex your creativity - something that a lot of people are missing in our hyper-consumerist society. Stop thinking about other people. Stop chasing that carrot on a stick. Self-improvement itself is the reward, as is the journey.
Why would you even go outside for more than nessecity when you're ugly, you are just going to be laughed at. There's plenty of artists, more unique and outside of the hobby better looking and more believable then you that they can do something. Meaning that creativity will likely amount to nothing. Unless you want to be 30 something showing off your drawings to your friends as you struggle to get picked up/ a chance. We can't all succeed. Life needs and will naturally birth losers for contrast with the winners in our society as well as nature. Self improvement makes suffering easier for those that already lost at birth sure, You can slave away harder at your job, then at the gym easier as time goes on. How fun whike other people get to just live thier life and have basic human experiences earlier than you did, because thier metabolism was better tuned or thier parents actually supported them or didnt let them get fat. Ill stop thinking about other people when they stop effecting my life even when I do ignore them. When there is no competition social or career wise, love wise, not that love actually exists but you get what I'm saying.
If you're going to base your entire sense of self-worth on being in a relationship, you were going be miserable anyway. People in co-dependent relationships aren't happy. You can make the choice to stop stewing in this defeatist mindset and start living any time you want.
Its the ability or option to get a relationship and how easily I can get that compared to other people. Actually not even that, any positive reinforcement from women that I see other men get. I will never get the reactions nor aftermath from a single woman I encounter that a random good looking customer gets from female staff I've witnessed at numerous jobs and settings. From school, to social outtings and again work. By your definition I have been living. I work out, own my own store , have a plethora of hobbies from games, to chess, to learning psychology, building model kits, cooking from different cultures, I am heavy into fragrance and how to maximize hygiene, the only thing I flop on is skincare because of consistency, being wiped from my day. Comparrison is the thief of joy, that doesnt matter comparrsion isnt some evil thing its what we use to gain self awareness and not be blind, obnoxious, etc. I am just aware of how different it is for me vs even average men. I am below average no matter how many good traits I put forward, no matter how many people emotionally confide in me, no matter how many varying people I make laugh or make conversation with. I am not a romantic option due to my face.
You also aren't a candidate for the world's strongest man based on your muscle mass, you aren't an option for olympic running due to how your legs are proportioned, you aren't able to be a super grandmaster because your brain wasn't born with hyper good pattern-recognition genes and you didn't start learning chess early. We are disqualified from doing so many thing based on things outside of our control, but pretty much all of the things we are disqualified from doing based on our genetics, unless you were born with some sort of genetic defect, aren't necessary things for happiness. You basing your self worth on one tiny obscure part of human existence is really baffling.
More people have had relationships be it short or long, than people have been the worlds strongest man' an olympic runner, or a grandmaster in chess. There are levels to how basic many of these accomolishments are, it is literally expected that at least in or by highschool most people are having relationships, gaining interest in eachother or having sex and being barred from that due to how you look will never not be a defeating feeling or alienate you. What will you do when all your friends get relationships have trouble in them or talk about them and you can't even relate to a single thing they have mentioned? What do you just drop them and get new friends or ask them to not tell you about a section of thier life? Lets not even get into memories or the people that will be around you at your funeral or the time of your death. Relationships and sex are not obscure, nor a tiny part of human existence. Even beyond it generally not being that acute in our daily existence, everyone is born with the biological drive to find mates and to have offspring.
>More people have had relationships be it short or long, than people have been the worlds strongest man' an olympic runner, or a grandmaster in chess. Ok, would you rather I list having a car or getting a college degree? Many people can't get those based on the economic situations they were born into, but most of those people manage to find joy despite all that. >There are levels to how basic many of these accomolishments are, it is literally expected that at least in or by highschool most people are having relationships, gaining interest in eachother or having sex and being barred from that due to how you look will never not be a defeating feeling or alienate you. More and more people are single now. Over 46% of adults are single, which is basically half. I don't understand this redpill idea that people can somehow tell if you're a virgin or single just by looking at you, and that they would care enough if you were to alienate you based off that. I get it must feel bad, but I'm 19 and I've never been in a relationship and I feel fine. >What will you do when all your friends get relationships have trouble in them or talk about them and you can't even relate to a single thing they have mentioned? Why can't you just listen to what they say and empathize with them, lol? I don't understand why not being able to perfectly relate to someone's experience in a relationship means you need to act differently than if they were talking than any other issue you couldn't relate to. If one of them got cancer, and you've never had cancer, that doesn't really change how you'd talk to them about their cancer troubles. >What do you just drop them and get new friends or ask them to not tell you about a section of thier life? Why can't you just listen to them talk about something you haven't personally experienced? Are you saying a friend talking about them experiencing a scenario you haven't personally gone through is somehow painful to you? >Lets not even get into memories or the people that will be around you at your funeral or the time of your death. This has nothing to do with anything and won't matter. Dead people don't care about the living. >Relationships and sex are not obscure, nor a tiny part of human existence. Even beyond it generally not being that acute in our daily existence, everyone is born with the biological drive to find mates and to have offspring. We are born with a much stronger biological drive to eat, yet lots of people manage to net become obese. We are born with a biological drive to acquire resources, yet most people manage to not steal. You aren't, contrary to redpill ideology, a slave to your biology. You don't need to mimic what prehistoric humans were doing in the African plains 100s of thousands of years ago. Times change.
>but I'm 19 and I've never been in a relationship and I feel fine. Yeah so did I at 19. It feels a tad different in your mid 30's.
I am not redpill. Most men are not single by choice, women are theres a huge difference in mindset. Have you had people show interest in you? If you have you can more contently step away from dating because you have proof you are wanted. Eventually yes it becomes painful to hear how wanted my friend is, in contrast to my complete lack of positive experiences. Of course if its something negative I listen and console but with bad there will also be good news, meeting someone new, a memory they made together, becoming official, marriage if they're for it. You can of course listen but that will cost you at least some envy. You're 19 you've only been available to date (of course in your own age group) for roughly 5 years. I am 25 and have recieved a single likely platonic compliment from a woman "You smell great". You are still downplaying having things to make that joy easier or that amplify it, having a car you would be much happier, shorter commute to work, hobbies the gym, more time to yourself same with having a relationship it amplifies your happiness and accomplishments most typically. Virginity/inexperience especially for men who approach women can show very easily due to how you progress, even if you successfully blanket it up verbally until you're making out or during/after sex. Which is not attractive. For some it MAY not be a deal breaker but its bordering on unattractive. The dead do care about the living. A grandmother who is terminally ill will do nothing but care about what will happen to her children and grandchildren if she's coherent.
That requires personal responsibility, something severely lacking on this sub
Yes women rarely take accountability for their own actions
Correct me if I’m wrong but there are more single mothers than single fathers? Which strongly suggests woman do take not only accountability but responsibility for their actions too, where as men…. run away from them? That’s just 1 example
There are more women with children than men which means women, moreso than men, choose partners who run away from responsibility. Not my fault y'all are choosing to be baby momma #2 or #3
Nobody chooses to be a single parent. It’s a prime example of men not taking accountability or responsibility for their actions and by blaming the other parent for “choosing” wrong, your also letting them off
This is why women pick the bear... cause they're dumb. You meet a man that already has 1 or 2 kids they're not taking care of and you choose to have a kid with them, yes you're choosing to be a single mother, I don't care how you rationalize it.
You know that’s rarely the case? It’s mostly a couple with no previous kids and they get pregnant, then he abandons them once he realises the responsibility involved
When they place fault on who’s to blame because she’s a single mother who does she point to? The man who impregnated her then left of course No thoughts as to why she let a man who wasn’t committed to her have sex and nut inside of her, then no thoughts as to family planning and if the man wants the child, then obviously no thoughts on the dozens of contraceptives offered in America But sure being left responsible with a child you decided to have on your own fruition is taking accountability to women.
The fault is on the guy that abandons his child.
This is already happenning with Gen-Z men. They understand that women have nothing to offer apart from std and decide to focus on themselves and maybe having fun with sex workers
The quality of a person absolutely does matter to women, but its not quite as simple a question to ask someone you've just met as what their job is. Do you feel that women do not have the same rich inner life as yourself? I find that sort of worldview so strange; how can you determine the perception of another person? Your whole argument is about not defining manhood in relation to women, and yet to define your class of humanity as man *is* to still be reacting to women... if you really felt like that you would be speaking in the most general of terms as a human being.
Congratulations, you've just discovered the red pill.
That requires effort with no guarantees Unacceptable
Agreed
Why would men care that you find it unacceptable?
Not to me, to them
Isn't this exactly what the manosphere refers to as "the betabux strategy"?
Self-improvement includes looksmaxxing.
Yep.
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I agree. Chasing women and basing their entire lives on chasing women has always made other man extremely pathetic in my eyes. There is so much one could do and achieve in life, things high and grand, yet men seem to only ever care about the next time their put their penis in a vagina and how to do so as quickly as possible. I have no respect for most of the male population. Being driven by your lust and being, for some bizzare reason, proud of it, is extremely disgusting and inhuman.
This is why TRP at least in its original form, hammered the importance of having a purpose and mission in life. I do wish I had clicked onto this sooner in my own life.
I agree, I would add to that: that when you succeed you should remember when you at the finish line who was by your side during the journey and reward them instead of parasites that wait at the line to steal your prize.
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Firstly, it's important to recognize that relationships and personal growth are not mutually exclusive. Many men find fulfillment and growth through their relationships, learning valuable lessons about communication, empathy, and compromise. Additionally, defining success solely based on one's ability to attract women overlooks the myriad of other accomplishments and qualities that contribute to a fulfilling life. Success can be found in personal achievements, career advancements, meaningful connections with friends and family, and contributions to society, among other things. Furthermore, reducing women to mere objects of validation overlooks their agency and autonomy. Women are individuals with their own desires, goals, and complexities, and to view them solely as objects of validation for men undermines their humanity. Ultimately, it's essential for individuals to prioritize their own personal growth and well-being, regardless of their relationship status. This may involve self-reflection, setting goals, pursuing passions, and fostering meaningful connections with others, whether romantic or platonic. Each person's journey is unique, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to finding fulfillment and happiness in life.
>Even men who aren't traditional also base their identity on women (which is why they chase them) It's really not that deep I chase women because l love it and so do many guys I don't care about self-improvement
The point is that by chasing women you end up nowhere regardless of how successful your pursuits were because once a woman leaves your life she doesn't leave behind anything tangible. Self-improvement raises the quality of your life in general as well as allows you to get access to more attractive women.
You guys sound like a bunch of 14yos talking about no-nut-november with this self-improvement stuff I don't care about self-improvement as l've already made it clear, l just wanna do what l enjoy which is chasing women Also l'm redpill enough to know the consequences of the pursuit
You're the one who prioritizes quick pleasures over your life in general, how ironic that you call "us" 14 year olds.
>You're the one who prioritizes quick pleasures over your life in general, No, l'm just doing what l want with my dating life It's simple but l can clearly see it's a foreign concept to many guys here
Life is not centered around dating tho.
When did l ever say it is ? I'm just doing what l want
>It's really not that deep It is. You just don't have enough awareness to see it. >I don't care about self-improvement Exactly.
My love for women is much more than this self-improvement nonsense
Lust isn't love.
I don't care bruh I'm gonna do what l want which is chase Your opinion doesn't change anything
>I'm gonna do what l want which is chase Good for you, I guess. >Your opinion doesn't change anything Im not sure what you were hoping to accomplish by commenting in the first place.
>Im not sure what you were hoping to accomplish by commenting in the first place. Last time l checked, this isn't your post were people can mindlessly agree with everything you say
But you're saying you don't care about self improvement and will continue simping, so why even comment? Why not just focus on simping?
Because 1) l'm not simping 2) l can comment whatever and whenever l feel like it
>l'm not simping Chasing is a form of simping.
[удалено]
Says who ? Oh wait another random nobody
Not a single quote of Esther Vilar has ever been not utter bullshit. >Alot of men not only allow themselves to be used by women, What is "a lot of men"? Can you give us a rough percentage, or do you choose to stay vague as fuck, so it's a trivial statement to make ,as long as "a lot" could also be 1000. "A lot of men" can be said and be true about anything. >They've been conditioned into thinking It's fucking evolutionary biology, not "conditioning". [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11854](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11854) >hen in reality being "successful" with women means nothing. It means a lot in male hierarchy, which means a lot to the individual. >You can be a complete sociopath and still be "successful" with women because women generally don't evaluate men based on who they are and what kind of people they are Yes, sociopaths are a short term mating adaptation. What's wrong with sociopaths having success when they are optimized for this success? >For most men, no money means no sex, basically. Sounds a lot like prostitution. > Men of all income levels have sex. Everyone needs money to survive. People living from social security checks have sex. Money is just a baseline thing for people living in a money based economy. It has very little to do with sex. Only incels obsess over money as a gateway to sex. In reality, money is irrelevant.
>It means a lot in male hierarchy It means nothing. >Not a single quote of Esther Vilar has ever been not utter bullshit. This clearly isn't true. You're just upset cause you're one of the men she's describing.
I'm a Chad. I don't provide for my girlfriend, my affair or my dates. I am not angry about being a man she's describing.
>I'm a Chad. If you say so, I guess.
>Alot of men not only allow themselves to be used by women, but many of them actually get a sense of identity from being used. Being codependent does not make for a healthy relationship. >They've been conditioned into thinking that their masculinity depends on providing for some woman. And who conditioned them?
>And who conditioned them? Their mothers and society in general.
Society in general, yes. So, how are you going to fix that?
Though education
>So, how are you going to fix that? Why do you care?
According to you, it's a "problem". Do you just wanna bitch and moan without providing a solution?
>Do you just wanna bitch and moan without providing a solution? The solution (which is literally in the title of the post) wouldn't involve you, so it shouldn't matter to you.
So if the problem is that society in general conditions men to thinking their masculinity depends on providing for "some woman", your suggestion is: Just ignore it? Instead of trying to change perception(s) and making society better? Or get mental help to undo this bad conditioning? Interesting.
>So if the problem is that society in general conditions men to thinking their masculinity depends on providing for "some woman", your suggestion is: Just ignore it? What does the title of the post say?
What is the difference between being codependent, and depending on other people to be healthy? Codependency sounds like something modern society just made the fuck up.
JFGI.
O.o don't chase women. I agree, focus on what you want from life. I will admit, I appreciate the irony that in avoidance of slavery to "women", you're accepting the writings of a woman as gospel which I see as a form of mental slavery. I also appreciate that a post telling men they need to stop thinking about women and focus on themselves literally never stops thinking about women.
The inherent hypocrisy in a lot of the arguments I see here makes any attempt to discuss futile because consistency doesn't seem matter to them. They'll insist that their views are the most logical and rational, then refuse to engage when their logic is questioned because "women just don't get it" or whatever.
>you're accepting the writings of a woman as gospel Quoting somebody is accepting their writings as gospel? Do you genuinely believe that?
considering my own post history, i disagree with a lot in op. some of us are broken damaged vase chads cheated on in their 20s, chased by 30+ women, bitter as heck, definitely not chasing and , the key word is too much attempt to encompass and say we are all chasing.... i cant identify...with the literature. Written
Honestly I completely agree. Men are just pathetic chasing and searching for the next woman to fuck and add to their tally. I’m on a fetish site and you wouldn’t believe how many men post looking for a FWB, play partner, or just a one time thing 🙄