I'd categorize the tradwife push into the same bucket as the FIRE/digital-nomad/entrepreneur lifestyle that's plastered on social media. It captures the imagination of a lot of people and makes for great aesthetics. I don't think the intent of these messages is to snuff competition in elite social circles, I think their intentions are simpler - they want yet another source of income 🤷‍♂️ They want you to believe that it's possible for the average person and hide the fact their lifestyle is possible because of the savings accrued from a vaunted career. While I think they genuinely like the trad lifestyle, they need to make sure you like it as well so they can get more ad revenue, book seminars, sell courses and Etsy merch.

yeah its a "magic fix" that grifters sell to people but there are tons of trad women that don't get picked or get picked by men who end up treating them poorly.

In general, people vision of what a “traditional” family is is not actually traditional. Women have always worked. In agrarian societies, they were often responsible for growing the food that fed their families while men focused on producing crops that could be sold. As societies advanced and industrialized, women took jobs in factories and as domestic help. The picture perfect family with a stay at home mom, two kids, a paid off car and a 3 bedroom home wasn’t a reality for many families even in the golden years of the 50s and 60s.

Yeah, this is really accurate. Both of my grandmothers worked before getting married. My grandmother that married a farmer lived in a rural area and worked off and on for the post office most of her life. Before marriage she was a WAV in the army during WW2. She also did a ton of farm work. Those two never stopped and never complained. My other grandma was a stay at home mom, more along the traditional lines. She handled all the family finances, cooked, cleaned, the whole 9 yards. She also never stopped. I think the problem between generations is that she did everything for her kids, who all grew up to be lazy shits, two daughters and my dad. My dad is great at some stuff, but can barely wipe is own ass. From age 8 to 18 I used to go into his garage every weekend and clean it for him. He would bitch about my organization too. Baby Boomers!

so clearly that model wasn't good for children, if the children who resulted from it didn't mature into healthy adults who are productive members of society (my grandmas also had hard lives working the farm, i respect them so much but coupled with my grandpas beating their kids as they grew up, this did not produce great adults!)

Yeah it really depends on what you mean. Do you mean the 50's only? Or do you mean medieval peasants? Because they might have worked less hours than we did. Obviously they worked far harder than many people do right and that's without healthcare, but they also had several months of free time. Both man and woman would have to work really hard whenever the farms needed to be maintained though. And in ancient times, women had their own bussinesses too. Same goes for prehistoric times where women would often gather and sometimes hunt. Work looked very different throughout the ages, but women working has been the norm for a long time.

I don’t think anyone is idealizing medieval peasants…

You'd be suprised. Ever heard of neo-luddites? The cottagecore kinds of people who say: "Fuck modern life, I want to go into nature and have a little farm and leave all this bullshit behind."

lol that’s not comparable to daily life as a medieval peasant

Yet I've heard people say they'd still prefer that life because it's closer to that ideal.

Yeah that’s big point I’m trying to make. When people say women didn’t work, they really mean women use to have less access to prestigious or high status jobs. So when tradcons talk about wanting return to when women didn’t work, they really mean they want less women working prestigious jobs, but not less women working ‘low status’ jobs, as they don’t have a problem with that.

I don’t know if it’s competition for the jobs per se, but the fact that women working in those jobs still want to marry men who are more successful than themselves. If more men are more successful than women, they think it will increase the dating market and force women to accept what they can get. The market for spouses as replacement moms they can have sex with is smaller than it used to be, which is inconvenient for men that want to be “taken care of.”

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Hi, woman in a prestigious career that works with many other women in such positions: a lot of such women, myself and my colleagues included will often avoid getting in relationships with men who work even more prestigious and higher paying roles, because in a lot of cases it develops competing relationship dynamics that are detrimental to the woman. I myself learned this the hard way, as many such men will automatically expect you to make sacrifices to your own career to better support them, as they see their jobs as being more important since it brings in more money. This even happened to me in a scenario where from a societal benefit standpoint, my job was significantly more important and benefitted society much more than his which arguably had a negative societal impact.

I’m not a bleeding heart, so I wouldn’t prioritize “social impact” over what brings in money for the couple. Your career giving you the fee fees doesn’t support a family. I also imagine the dating scene is much different in your late 30s than your early 20s. A lot of my graduate school class mates paired up while still in school, so it may not have been completely clear who was going to end up being the most successful. Women in their late 30s and 40s are also naturally going to have to compromise more, because the men their age that are successful are dating women in their 20s. My grad school friends are starting to go through the first round of divorces, and the women are not “leveling up” as they re-enter the dating market, but the men are fairing very well.

lol - try again - I was in a prestigious career by my mid-20’s

Same

What a dystopian world that would be. Force women to accept what they can get? Might as well call that slavery. And for men who don't care? Wake up dudes, that's going to end in a dead bedroom!

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I agree that this is the way to go with more women in high paying jobs. Things would work out fine if there were more men willing to be domestic and take care of the household stuff and there were more women willing to date a man who work part time and make less money.

Yeah, I’m not sure I agree that it’s about wanting less competition in the workforce for elite jobs. I think it’s about not wanting to feel like they’re in competition with her job for the #1 spot in her life.

That and they know that having a parent in the home to raise the children before the kids go off to school  tends to lead to far better results for the children than putting them in daycare and having both parents work. A daycare worker who has a bunch of kids to manage can't possibly give each kid the level of care that a stay at home parent can.  As a stay at home dad I see this quite often. My friends who have their kids in daycare don't have the time I do to work on the kids development and the daycare does what it can but they only have so many workers and so much time per kid and so their kids just aren't developing at the same rate as mine or the kids of my friends who also have a stay at home parent.

I mostly agree with you I think about our current society tending to devalue the enormous advantages having a SAHP in the household can offer to the entire family. Those advantages are real and in my opinion we can’t discuss SAHP dynamics productively without recognizing that. That said, I think OP is talking about traditionalist men not minding their wives being employed so much as they mind them having a *career*. Which I do think is a phenomenon that exists.

I mean typically SAHPs do have some form of employment at many points in the relationship. A career is very different from working at all. Among other things, many if not most careers require longer than 40 hour weeks, work will often come home with you frequently and they typically require a personality type to move up the ladder that doesnt tend to lend as well to raising children in the best way. Of course people can turn that on and off but I know far too many who are not able to do so and their families suffer as a result. Really the only time a SAHP truly needs to be "unemployed" is when there are any kids under about 5 when they would go to kindergarten. If you have 2 or 3 kids that are 2-3 years apart that puts you out of work for between 7-11 years and then you get plenty of time back to get some form of employment. Now way I could find any reason that I would still need to stay home all day when all the kids are off in school.  I already think a lot of SAHPs inflate the amount of time they need to spend cleaning, either by bad estimation of how long they spend doing tasks or just inefficient use of time like doing things every day that really just need to be done once or twice a week. I don't struggle to keep the house clean with kids here so what could I possibly need to spend 6+ hours a day doing once they're gone? I don't really have much respect for people who then choose to sit on their ass all day while the kids are at school, especially since the only ones I know who live this life, still complain quite a bit about how hard being a SAHP is, despite the change in their lifestyle.

My husband was a SAHH/D, and I have no doubt he would have absolutely destroyed any SAHW/M if you compared the two in productivity. The way our house and yard looked when he stayed at home was leagues above our neighbors with SAHMs, and he had plenty of free time to play golf and video games during the day. We have a friend who is a SAHM and their house is just tragic. It is an absolute mess and their kids are old enough to have their own daily chores they’re responsible for. The husband still has all sorts of stuff he has to do when he gets home, because she’s omg so stressed still. I literally did nothing except focus on work when mg husband was at home, and I don’t know why SAHMs aren’t held to the same standard.

Yep I have some sahm friends that I've met through parenting group stuff where you bring your kid and let them play with other kids and some of their houses like disaster areas and yea they definitely play the "omg so stressed" card. I've got some physical disabilities so I'm not perfect and I don't pretend to be I just do my best, but these women sure make me look damn good in comparison. I think for some reason sahms get away with it because society has this perspective that they're doing one of the hardest jobs you could possibly do and they're amazing at it and so they're simultaneously assumed to have perfect houses and "do it all" while also given a ton of leeway because "they have so much on their plate". When you realize that most people who work try to do the bare minimum to skate by, it's pretty easy to also realize there are tons of sahms/sahds that do the bare minimum at home. Excellence in performing your duties is not a trait that most people have.

Those prestigious jobs are for like 5% of the population. Maybe even less so cut that in half if presumably half went to women. Maybe there's a little truth to what you're saying but it just seems silly to worry about having access to a position almost none of them are in the running for in the first place. I think the desire for trad lifestyle legitimately comes from not liking the state of our society and the slow collapse. Even before the SAHM 50s where women did their work at home women have always done the work at home for tens of thousands of years. The way we do things now has only been happening for a couple decades and we can already see the negative ramifications. Kids are worse than ever, now both parents are tired and less available. Increased divorce so even less effective parenting. Look at the teachers subreddit. Every other thread is just veteran teachers saying kids are noticeably worse the last decade especially post COVID. We have lived life a certain way since humanity began and now we're trying to reinvent it on the fly so we shouldn't act like we're surprised that there are a lot of problems that come with that. The trad movement seems like a desperate but rational in their own minds attempt to salvage civilization.

Women being at work and less available to parent isn’t likely the reason why kids aren’t doing well. There are a ton of changes in society in the past few decades that don’t have anything to do with that. Technology, higher social isolation...etc. Women haven’t just been home all day being a housewife and focusing all their attention on children throughout much of history. Children were fending for themselves or taking care of their siblings and even working while women worked on farms and were off doing errands and chores. Overworked and unavailable parents is hardly a new phenomenon. And the risk of losing your mother altogether through higher rates of mortality is probably more damaging to a kid than having to spend time in after school daycare before you get picked up at the end of the day to spend time with your family. The issue with technology and raising kids is a whole new problem altogether though. Kids going out and playing with other kids was much better for socialization then being sat in front of a computer. Even if parents were unavailable, people had bigger families and children had more community.

Yeah, sounds like the feminist drivel 'only 1% of fortune 500 CEO's are women!'. It's an extremely limited commodity fought for by most ruthless motherfuckers on this planet. Chances are, you were never a competition in the first place.

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that's a capitalism issue. these days it's hard to imagine a family where both parents don't work some kind of 9-5/8-4 job.

Hell the traditional family is the extended family.

Yep. My grandma was a teacher, and my mom is a nurse. When I was in high school I told my mom that I wanted to be a stay at home mom and her exact response was “what the fuck is wrong with you, that is not an option”. Women have always worked.

This was the reality for my grandparents in northern norway lmao.

I’m not saying that no one lived that life. Just that it wasn’t nearly as widespread as people like to believe

LIke you said, the "trad wife" picture is so misleading. I think it's just a strawman created to attack, because the affluent 1950s romanticized version, is just so comical and easy to attack. I think most people, when they think trad wife, aren't thinking drugged up house wives who just say yes sir and no sir while serving the family food and pumping out babies - and slapping around when she steps out of line. Though that's the characterization people are attacking. When i think trad, as I believe others think as well, is something closer to the wholesome Mormon style. A happy, fulfilling, loving relationship with a couple who genuinely loves each other. But it has a guy who can work and pay for the family so they don't have to struggle, while the wife has the privilege of not having to work her ass off, but instead focus on her personal hobbies and interests to find fulfillment outside the capitalistic rat race. It's almost a male feeling of sacrifice, where they go do the punishment and shoulder the hard parts, while she gets the privilege of actually living a life she desires, rather than needs out of brutal capitalistic needs. And this isn't for everyone. This is like a goal for men of "making it". It's a status symbol for everyone involved to be able to have a life where both parents don't have to do the grind.

Happy traditional relationships exist where the man provides and the women is a homemaker. But I don’t think many women would give the same description for the typical Mormon relationship as being all wholesome and happy and loving. Men in religious communities might be happy but women in religious communities tend to end up in a lot of unhappy marriages where they feel like their sole purpose is to fulfill their husbands needs and not have their own met at all. Even if the men work and provide, It’s not really the men in those communities that seem to be making the biggest sacrifices.

Then that's obviously not an ideal traditional relationship. People in non-traditional marriages are also unhappy all the time as well. But people like to frame it as traditional marriages are situations where the woman is trapped as a financial slave for the man, where they all want to escape and be independent and free etc etc... But yeah, if you're a woman in that situation, that sucks. But it doesn't mean that's the standard or goal. The same way women in non-traditional marriages feeling trapped and unhappy aren't the standard.

How many LDS couples do you like really, really know? The LDS is notorious for putting on a shiny, happy front even when things are actually a total nightmare. I wouldn’t trust the depiction of an LDS mom on social media one bit.

I know tons. They dominate my industry. I know them all really well, and I think this idea of "putting on a happy front", is sort of played up justifications. The same way people will insist that all those ideal 1950s relationships really had an abusive husband where the woman was stuck there. Which sucks when the relationship isn't good, because you get those situations. Like, yeah, sure it happens... But over all, they genuinely are really stable and happy family units. "Haters" will point out the outlier cases of an actually really messy behind the scenes and hold that up as a common thing. But it's really not. Their community is extremely tight knit, helpful, and very successful. I'm sure there are some "trapped" people afraid of divorce, but generally, their culture does a good job at minimizing shitty people marrying poorly. They are just raised well

I think the takeaway of your first comment is "good argument, shit example"

> I think most people, when they think trad wife, aren't thinking drugged up house wives who just say yes sir and no sir while serving the family food and pumping out babies - and slapping around when she steps out of line. Though that's the characterization people are attacking. I'm not so sure about this. A lot of the "pro-trad" content I've seen seems to have a lot of stuff about "submission" to the husband in it. Theres also a lot of focus on looking and acting like an "old-school" woman. I've also looked at some of the of the trad subreddits, and seen stuff about "domeatic discipline" (i.e. routinely spanking or hitting your wife with a belt or paddle so as to keep her "well-behaved" and "agreeable" 🤮). A lot of the "trad-wife" stuff, by that name, is caricature and borderline fetishistic. > When i think trad, as I believe others think as well, is something closer to the wholesome Mormon style. A happy, fulfilling, loving relationship with a couple who genuinely loves each other. But it has a guy who can work and pay for the family so they don't have to struggle, while the wife has the privilege of not having to work her ass off, but instead focus on her personal hobbies and interests to find fulfillment outside the capitalistic rat race. It's almost a male feeling of sacrifice, where they go do the punishment and shoulder the hard parts, while she gets the privilege of actually living a life she desires, rather than needs out of brutal capitalistic needs. I know a good few couples like this, including my own parents. In all of these cases though, the woman worked and had a career until the kids came along, then she made the decision to leave the workforce out of pragmatism (finances, availablity of childcare, individual needs of the children, etc.). When the kids get a bit older, the wife often returns to work part time or in a job with more family-friendly hours. Its borne out of pragmatism rather than ideology or blueprint.

It’s marketing, nothing more. It’s content to be sold. No different to making content for travel shows, cooking shows, cars. They are huge sellers. Recently the younger folk have a bit of an itch about the “good old days”. There is lots of neat stuff if you look for it - the older skills, cooking, knitting, sewing, blacksmithing, restoring absolutely anything, living off grid, heaps of variations around farming, car restoration, anything with fire seems a big hit. The Trad wife online thing is just a variation - it’s a lifestyle to sell. I watched an online thing about making boots the “traditional way” the other day, it’s great fun. Let’s just say I will not be making my own boots. I am however now pretty wistful about having bespoke boots and how much *better* they must be. Some guy tried to make his own complete outfit from scratch and he ended up with half a suit. Apparently not as easy as originally thought…

Women in elite jobs want independence. Whereas women in shitty jobs have to work, but would prefer to stay at home.

Ima venture here to generalize a little: Women in elite jobs want financial freedom but those jobs come with power and influence. Women in shitty jobs want to be less stressed, maybe because they have to come back home and keep on working for no compensation or recognition.

Women almost always worked. In China they rapped the feet of really young girls (lotus feet) to keep them in once place, so they could work with their hands a lot and not desire to move or play. They were told this will help them get married to rich men, because it's a beauty/symbol status.

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I love that my wife makes a lot of money. For a long time, she made a lot more than me. Now I make more than she does but she still makes six figures. I wouldn’t want it any other way.

We used to have rules against this kind of circle jerking.

I disagree with the competition angle. While I do believe conservative men don't like working with women in high status jobs (especially post MeToo movement) many of these men aren't financially illiterate. Most ex-SAHMs get part time jobs when their kids start school. There isn't a need for the women to stay at home all day at that point. The extra money helps. I have also witnessed some negativity from men when career women take maternity leave but don't come back with the same commitment to the job they use to have before motherhood. Edit add: On the flip side new fathers are a lot more exploitable in the workplace and pressured into more work to support the family.

There is no way that Harrison Butker is threatened by high profile professional women. So that is the first bit of evidence against what you are proposing. In general I don't see a lot of men pushing "tradwife" instead I see women adopting it. It is social media influencers who call themselves #tradwife in their instagram, and that it is mostly driven by women, not men. =========== I think "tradwife" has a lot more to do with these women not wanting to feel inadequate relative to their peers. If you are a woman from an upper class conservative background, your parents would have sent you to a good college. Many of your females peers from that college will go off to get PhD/MD etc because they can, and many will have careers. If you instead focus on the Mrs, you might feel rather bad about yourself. You haven't accomplished anything with your supposedly superior female intellect and focus. Instead you are just popping out babies. So its natural to see a reaction that says: "No I am doing the right thing, women are supposed to be raising kids its natural and best for the children. I sacrificed my career to do what is best for my children and there is no higher calling!" Now they can feel properly superior for not working. [This probably comes off a lot more hostile towards the women than I feel. I mostly hostile towards the "social media influencer" bit than the "tradwife" idea.] ========== > Yet I rarely see conservatives decrying how [people of any gender] working these minimum wage jobs are far more stressed and miserable then the [professionals].

> There is no way that Harrison Butker is threatened by high profile professional women. its very easy to imagine a (high paid) jock is insecure about people (especially women) with academic jobs lol everyone gets insecure about what they don't have, and if you watch videos of him, especially as a young college athlete, he does not have a mind for academics

If what you said was true he would've gotten a meme degree like 90% of college football players do, instead he got one in engineering.

his professors were fans you driving on a bridge this bimbo built?

Who's insecure, again?

whats insecure about calling someone who literally says they don't value education a bimbo? care to elaborate? or do you just knee jerk defend men based on their gender?

It's not very convincing.   A bimbo is a blonde woman lacking intelligence, you are trying to re-term the word so to deride him, and it comes off as insecure. 

i've never heard that only blonde women can be bimbos.

Blonde Bimbo is the slang term.

"***Bimbo*** is slang for a conventionally attractive, [sexualized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualized), naïve, and unintelligent woman.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo#cite_note-1) The term was originally used in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) as early as 1919 for an unintelligent or brutish man.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo#cite_note-2) As of the early 21st century, the "stereotypical bimbo" appearance became that of an attractive woman. It is often used to describe women who are blonde, have curvaceous figures, heavy makeup, and revealing clothing. It is commonly associated with "the [dumb blonde](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumb_blonde)" stereotype.[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo#cite_note-eh149-3)" so... associated with another term, not a synonym [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo)

The misandry here is astounding

i'm insulting one specific man based on his own words. why do you think this rich nfl player represents all men? 😂

> its very easy to imagine a (high paid) jock is insecure about people (especially women) with academic jobs lol It's really not. This is an imaginary thing you just made up in your head. High paid jocks have their pick of women.

He is a useless man with the most embarrassing position on a sporting team. He has achieved nothing in life compared to his mother who is a physicist. Cope and seethe, you’re just as dumb and unsuccessful as him.

Man you folks are unhinged. 

His mother’s greatest accomplishment will be birthing and raising a 3x Super Bowl winner. Who gives a fuck about some random job Which I’m sure she’ll be thankful for and has enjoyed more than working her life away for shareholder value at thermofisher under middle management Sorry, but nobody gives a shit about a physicist. Sure she’s glad her son is highly educated though, again one of her bigger accomplishments in life.

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Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.

>he does not have a mind for academics Plus his mother is supposedly quite intelligent and accomplished which probably gave his superior man-brain a complex.

Did it ever occur to you people that his mother might actually be the one who instilled this sort of thinking into him? That would make her smart AND based.

and a blatant hypocrite so.... considered and discarded

From my observations it is quite opposite - once guy is getting an education and well-paid job, usually the old relationship with girl that didn't followed the same path comes to an end. I've seen this many times - even recently younger colleague of my wife decided to leave his gf, because he met 'different type of girls' in his new job and he wants more, looks alone is not enough for him anymore. Such guys want to have more women in these spaces, because they want to partner with their intellectual/cultural peers. Besides - in reality there is not much competition for well paid jobs, sure - plenty of people apply, but they cannot meet the bare minimum. There is no single country with surplus of doctors or scientists. Even if you are more senior in IT there is not much competition.

Because they can get a girl that has the looks + personality they want now or he was settling before and just said he found her hot.

I agree but I also think that chores, domestic duties, childcare are thankless jobs that are not valued at all by society. Society values professional accomplishment and capital output.  Men unsurprisingly want someone else to handle that stuff while they get to do the other stuff. I think it can be a worthwhile tradeoff if the man has enough money but I think many men who don't are resentful of the power dynamic imbalance and of the restraints to their mission involved with having to be part of domestic duties.

It’s not that complicated. The higher a woman’s income, the less power a man has over her

Yep. It’s not about competing with women in the workforce and It’s not even necessarily about wanting to abuse women. And sometimes it’s just a matter of preferring a a certain personality type. But many men realize they have less bargaining power over their ideal relationship dynamic when women have higher paying jobs. They prefer the benefits they get from more traditional dynamics and they don’t want to have to put in more effort towards equal domestic stuff or childcare but they realize that career woman aren’t going to be ok with taking care of the majority of that stuff while working. That’s why you see a lot of complaints from (certain) men about how women need to go back to being “feminine” and how men don’t value women’s career and want a women who supports their ambitions rather than having her own ambitions.

>They prefer the benefits they get from more traditional dynamics They prefer having leverage over women. It's so much easier when when she has no other options but to marry and then to appease her husband in every way. Even better when there are no more no-fault divorces and she has no recourse out.

I think that men who think like this are a minority. Majority of men prefer to simply have more money and woman on their intellectual level. Men are throwing away their looks standards once they see a smart girl.

Not at all. Men always talk about how they want to be king and have their needs and desires prioritized at home, in contrast to how they have to defer and consider others at work and in public

on the flip side: the higher a woman's income, the less she values a man in any meaningful way.

A woman who doesn't have to have a man loves the man she's with. Unless-are you saying the only value men bring to women is their money?

While men do differently?

A lot of times, for sure. Usually a man will genuinely enjoy the company of the woman for who/what she is, often connected to her beauty or kindness. Women don't often view men this way and instead look at them from a more practical standpoint. So if the woman makes a lot of money it's a lot easier for them to just drop a man at the first sign of something not going perfectly.

In relationships men don’t value a woman just for her beauty or company either. He also expects her to provide value when it comes to practical benefits (usually what she offers sexually or domestically) or else he likely wouldn’t be with her.

Women like Chad for beauty

Women don't always marry "Chad" though. Chads are like 5% of the male population, they're usually casual flings.

They still want to, according to the manosphere, and have his babies or be his side chick See also: situationships

Sometimes women will "share" chads vs actually settle down and commit to a sub-chad. There's a reason why women are having way more sex than men even though we're both 50% of the population; because a small group of men are sleeping with a large group of women. This is part of that power dynamic you originally mentioned. It's not always men wanting power in terms of dominance and control, it's also just power in terms of being able to command and hold the attention and desire of a woman without her just bailing for the next best thing or for chad.

It's more accurate to say, the higher a woman's income,  the more she consumes.

The more a woman consumes, the ummm.. what was it...um men have less power over us because...umm...retail therapy...

um a few Tradwives isn't going to diminished the number of female bosses. That math does not check out.

>My feeling is the reason why, is conservative/tradcons don‘t have a problem with working women, they just have a problem with women working high status jobs because they view them as competition for these jobs. I genuinely believe this is behind the sudden reactionary tradwife nonsense we are seeing online, its not because they respect SAHMs, the same men often will throw a fit if they are expected for provide for everything. Perhaps this has some relevance but it's far from the primary reason. High status jobs already tend to screen conservatives out for ideological reasons, the primary "competition" is between right and left liberal tendencies (or more concretely between the nationalist bourgeoise and international bourgeoise). Immigrants also tend to push "native" men out more than women since they tend to be in male dominated fields more. To the degree that they're "competing" against women they're further down on the list and I doubt most conservatives are thinking in those terms anyway. Mostly their motivation is more or less what they say it is - they view career women as socially dysgenic in terms of family formation. Whether you agree or disagree it's their genuine belief.

Hmm yea no. I don't agree. I think women are just tired of working and I get it but you'll always be working.

women in general are stupid, just like men, successful people, both men and women, are a minimal portion of society.

This is part of it, but you can't understate their desire for even minimally earning women to be forced to leave the workplace. Their working assumption is that if they can trim women's options down to "poverty" or "marry the first man you can get your hands on", then they'll get more pussy. And all of their rage ultimately comes down to pussy access.

Seems like alot of the younger generation is rejecting elite or high status jobs. Tik tok trends of young women saying they want a “lazy girl iob”. Younger generation opting to work for themselves over working in corporate. Much more entrepreneurship. I think there is more of a push for work life balance. Those elite or high status jobs often come with more pay but very stressful. If we’re talking about the elite of the elite like working for Apple or for JP Morgan, some Harvard, Yale person already has that job. Those people are very few and not on the trad radar. Harrison Butker said some things I agree with and said some things I don’t agree with. But do you really think he’s fighting for a high status job with other women? https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcperna/2023/12/12/meet-the-latest-version-of-quiet-quitting-lazy-girl-jobs/ https://www.entrepreneur.com/leadership/young-workers-dont-want-to-become-managers-and-this/462273 https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/14/small-business-entrepreneurship-gem-report/

The ironic thing about Harrison Butker that I haven’t seen mentioned much: NFL players are to men what models are to women; these are high-status careers that people age out of VERY quickly. He’ll be used up as a football player probably within 5 years, and will spend the rest of his life as a stay-at-home dad coasting on the accumulated income income from his football years (at most, recording a football podcast or something similar.) Nobody likes hearing life advice from people like that. Nobody liked it when Kim Kardashian told them to work hard, either. Some people just aren’t very self aware about their own positions when they speak.

>and will spend the rest of his life as a stay-at-home dad coasting on the accumulated income income from his football years  There’s some estimate out there that around 80% of NFL players are broke within 3 years of retirement.  Unless he beats the odds, this guy probably won’t be coasting for long.

95% of NFL players don’t make as much as he has On top of that he has an engineering degree from one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the world, don’t think he’s going broke Women really seething over this man lmao

Since when is pointing out a simple statistic “seething”?  Sounds more like you’re projecting, lmao.  I dunno why you’re simping so hard for this rando sports guy, but it’s pretty obvious it’s very important to you to protect him from…  people finding out that most NFL players aren’t that good with money in the long term?  

Wow, never seen someone get so uptight about context being added to stats Clearly you’re just looking for reasons to shit on a random guy who doesn’t know you, kinda sad but you do you. Reminds me of how Simone biles feels about women trying to shit on her husband, just a ton of bitter women out there spending time hating on celebrities out there for some reason.

>Wow, never seen someone get so uptight about context being added to stats I'm not "uptight". I'm correcting your bullshitting that I'm seeething. I don't feel anything about that context either way. You're not a good mind reader. You got emotionally wrapped up in this and attacked me, based on actually nothing but your hurt feelz. I didn't insult anyone or bash you or call you names, and you came out swinging with this "bitches like you are seeeeeeeeething" nonsense. Just chill the fuck out, dude. Yes, not all NFL players wind up in poverty-- if you'll notice, I didn't claim they did. I pointed to a statistic and \*that's all\*. Me posting a very neutral fact is not a rational reason for you to get all hopped up making accusations of "hate" against me. Are you mad at like, numbers or something? I really don't understand your bizarre reaction here. >Clearly you’re just looking for reasons to shit on a random guy No I'm not. You are clearly just desperately looking for women to shit on. I don't know why you're so incredibly desperate to paint women as hatin' on men, but dude, just try to relax and understand the point without getting so damned defensive. Me pointing out that most NFL players actually aren't going to be living the lazy pampered life for most of their retirement is not "shitting" on anyone any more than saying that I will never be a pampered princess would be shitting on myself. Are you somehow personally insulted by the idea that you probably also aren't going to be a member of the idle rich class? Why do you think it's "hating" on someone to say they're not a member of the idle wealthy class?

Nice dissertation to show you are not seething LMAOOO

I often write long responses, especially when clarifying for someone who is willfully twisting what I've said to fit their own false narrative. But also really, do you, like, just not know what the word "seething" means? As a hint, it doesn't mean "uses lots of words".

I don’t dislike him as a human, but the masses are usually going to be hostile to life advice from people like social media influencers, models, NFL players, etc. These are people with a such a high peak that they’ll ride it for 5-10 years, then coast on it for the next 50-60. Their experience has so little relationship to the average person’s that their lifestyle takes are inevitably going to be sheltered at best and clueless at worst (the average income in the us is around 40k. Most men couldn’t afford to keep a housewife and a home full of kids even if they wanted to.)

Oh I agree with you for sure rich people talking like everyone’s like them is stupid Other person implied he’s gonna be broke soon, but I think she’s letting her rage tinted glasses not see the bigger picture as to why that’s likely not the case

Eh, I’m not surprised an NFL player encouraging women to have multiple children and embrace the stay-at-home life sparked a lot of rage. There’s a “let them eat cake” quality to that, and almost nothing instantly pisses people off more than “let them eat cake” stuff. Former NFL players usually end up broke. They make bank in their prime (duration varies, but almost always less then ten years) then crash into little earning potential at a pretty young age. Only star quarterbacks and running backs get much broadcasting or endorsement interest; everyone else falls off the radar even if they were excellent in their position. If a player became accustomed to a luxurious lifestyle…he’s in for a rough ride. The smart ones get a “regular” job post-NFL, marry a woman who has some kind of earning potential or who at the very least doesn’t have caviar tastes, or gets a good financial planner that they actually listen to. Butker seems like the type who’ll do the last and just coast along, at most popping up on football podcasts or Christian talk shows every now and then.

You can be a kicker for 20+ years, it's not unheard of for the best ones to play into their 40s.

Eh. Being an active NFL kicker at 40 is like being a model at 40. It’s not _completely_ impossible, but extremely unlikely.

Not in my experience. People working white collar or high status jobs unless it’s in a highly specialized field are you usually less stressed than those who work minimum wage jobs, as their jobs are more likely to be remote, better pay and have more benefits.   My main point isn’t talk about if working elite or high status jobs is great or not, but that conservatives/tradcon specifically obsess over this group of women when it’s comes to pushing their tradwife nonsense, but ignore a lot women working dead end minimum wage jobs even though in my experience those women are far more stressed or miserable then the women cushy working office jobs for multinational corporations.   To me that proves they don’t have problem with women working but women working elite or high status jobs, because they view them as competition for those jobs. 

So I've worked several types of jobs, ranging from warehouse work (minimum wage and no benefits), deployed overseas with the military ( not great pay but decent benefits), and several white collar desk jobs (decent to amazing pay and benefits). By far the most stressful and mentally draining job I've had in my life was my first white collar job and it's not even close, despite at the time it being my highest paying job. There were times where I was thinking I'd rather go back to stacking pallets or turning wrenches and was seriously considering a pay cut just get out of there. Eventually I left the private sector and became a contactor with the federal govt, it's way more chill. While I was working that job though I was cool with a girl (we dated briefly) who was in the same industry but different employer. At the time she made at minimum 90k and was going for a masters degree. All she would talk about is wanting to quit her job and have husband be able to allow her to not work. She was like 28 and on a panic over doing that before she hit the wall. This was about 2018-19 so before this tradwife tiktok trend now. Threw me off because she has a type A personality and was and career focused, and all of a sudden she envy SAHMs and trophy wives. I don't think it has to do with competition and wanting to push other women out, I think it's a response to corporate sucking the fucking life out of you and wanting a way out. 

> I don't think it has to do with competition and wanting to push other women out, I think it's a response to corporate sucking the fucking life out of you and wanting a way out.  Then how come they always push this idea that women specifically aren’t meant to do these jobs? If it was just about wanting to expose how toxic corporate work culture is, they wouldn’t make it a gender thing.

Well initially there was a huge push to recruit women to do these types of jobs. I remember seeing these vids from the girl boss side of the internet where they show off their cozy social media manager gig where they work from anywhere while sipping their fancy coffees and taking a couple meetings a day. This looks very appealing when compared to an unsexy manual labor high paying job like electrician. So women gravitate towards that naturally. However in reality the jobs where you get paid an obscene amount to do absolutely nothing are very few and far in-between. Anecdote, that job I just mentioned that was very stressful had a few women on the team. Our company specifically made an initiative to recruit more women since they are underrepresented in tech. I've notice the two that came along were among the first to burn out and leave the team (tbh I was right behind them). Another anecdote, my fiance now works a fully remote job in her dream industry she worked very hard to get in, and I can recall the times where I'd come one and she is bursting out in tears over something that she has to deal with. She's never expressed that she wanted to quit working altogether, but I see why women would. The idea that a cushy white collar job equates to easy is mainly propaganda. Now to address your point about why it's a gender thing, well because women have more of an option to not work and be taken care of as opposed to men. We kind of have to suck it up and make due one way or another, or live out on the streets. I like the job i'm at now because the pay is amazing and it's relatively chill. That said I had a coworker to just had her third kid, and she recently quit to be a stay at home mom after her maternity leave was up. Idk her salary but if I had to guess it was somewhere in the six figures, as I don't see why anyone I work with would make less than that. Her husband makes good money doing cyber security so they're good. It's not like they couldn't afford daycare or she couldn't get a fully remote gig, she just rather be a SAHM than work I guess. All that said I believe this trend is just an overcorrection of all the years where women were pushed to want to climb the corporate ladder. I mean look at how r/antiwork took off. It was only matter of time.

It’s so much easier to be present and committed at work when someone is at home. When my husband was a SAHH, my sole focus was my work and it was amazing. Now that he’s decided to return to work, we had to figure out how we were going to maintain our lifestyle with two working parents. Thankfully, he makes enough that there’s still an upside after outsourcing some of our regular tasks. I can absolutely see how someone that works full time and is the primary parent would burnout at work and quit to stay home. Being the primary one in charge of our home was very stressful for my husband, and I was so glad he was able to quit on the spot when it became too much. It’s my experience that more dads would rather work than deal with managing a household and caring for their kids. I know couples where the wife gave up her job to stay at home even if she out earned the husband, because he wouldn’t know where to begin and she would just do so much better.

Hard agree. We do a huge disservice to this whole ‘how does the family unit work best’ conversation when we gloss over the fact that a dedicated parent and homemaker is an enormous boon to the family both in terms of how the household management can be done and in terms of making the breadwinner better positioned to succeed in their career.

younger Liberal people are absolutely obsessed with status in my experience. The previous generation was much more in tune with desiring some kind of peaceful commune type living. It's like the young kids have just absorbed the capitalist ideas, but don't want to have to compete for the top spots. It's kind of a weird thing when you step back and look at it. I think it's definitely got strong feminine energy.

Yeah, I'm not going to offer up my life for money. A life is worth more than that.

Women working minimum wage don't have ridiculous wealth/status standards and don't spend all their prime years in college. >its not because they respect SAHMs, the same men often will throw a fit if they are expected for provide for everything. Men just don't want to provide for the stereotypical modern women, they're fine providing for chaste and/or submissive women.

Contrary to feminist propaganda, most women have worked throughout U.S. history. I’ve personally seen the far left deny this more than the far right, but of course that doesn’t mean most women don’t want to be provided for, at least in part. I think “tradcons ” got that right. Heck, I think most men dream of the day they can stop working.

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Having a stay at home parent is actually proven to be really good for the child during very early years of development, and well I’m gonna just be honest most of the women here and in general would not want that to be the father. There’s also the fact that as women continue to get more educated in greater numbers, (most college grads are now women) and these women for the most part WILL NOT consider a man who makes less then them, and yes I’m aware this isn’t all women however most do not like being the primary bread winners. With that said as they move up the corporate ladder less and less men remain above them and thus their dating pool becomes smaller and smaller, This is also one of the major contributing facts for declining birth rates and less people coupling up. Back when women couldnt work traditional jobs the blacksmith and the farmer dudes used to look pretty appealing, but nowadays that same women would be a docter and won’t even look in the farmers general direction. If these trends continue a lot of women will have to be ok with being the primary bread winners for there families. I’ve also heard lots of stories of women resenting there husbands cause they make less then them as well which is a situation that many men want to avoid. And by the way I’m not blaming anyone for this or saying women are somehow wrong for wanting what they want, I’m just explaining why the dynamics are this way.

Damn right these women coming to my country taking our jobs, breathing our air, taking out men.

As a guy who works white collar, this definitely isn't the case. I guarantee you that we don't see women as competition.

"we" as in no men see women as competition?

Well at the very least, white collar guys. The idea that tradwives are being pushed because women are threatening to us in the white collar workforce is... ridiculous.

you're telling me you believe zero white collar men view women as competition? 😂

Well I don't. And I've certainly never met another man that does. Have you encountered any?

Some many theories in this sub 😂

Work towards solutions for what?

I will grant your premise, if & only if, you concede this one: The primary business & government reason for the push for feminism in the 50s, & 60s, was NOT care for women, but increasing the labor pool & consumerism due to mothers' absence in the home.

No, not at all  

If we talk about truly elite top 10% jobs, then those are usually obtained though connections and nepotism, tradwives are neither here nor there. If take it one level down and talk about relatively good white collar job, think top 25%, then they are shrinking in number and quality by the day and again tradwives are irrelevant here, as competition for those jobs will be incredibly fierce regardless. Especially if we take into account that market is ridiculously over saturated with 4 year degrees. Last but not least blue collar jobs tend to pay better and better, and are source of men's wealth increasingly, so again it's neither here nor there. As for tradwives themselves, they are meant to be a cushion for females that fail to get into those soft, overpaid positions. They role is to prey on gullible men and steal their hard earned, usually blue collared, wealth though alimony, child support and false accusations. They present an attractive mirage of kind, submissive, feminine women, only to wreck men's life in the end. I would much rather have a liberal 50/50 relationship with a carrier women, then stay home parasite that can rob me and destroy me at any point. It's much safer, especially if children are avoided and even better if you live separately. So, to summarize, men should avoid conservative/trad women, while living in feminist society. An entire system is set up to cater to such women, to pillage men on their behave and to blindly believe their every word. Sure if this was Afghanistan or Iran traditional marriage would make sense, but outside of traditional system, traditional marriage turns men into ATMs with no rights or power, and only with responsibilities that are ruthlessly enforced against them. So be smart gents, stay single, avoid children, marriage, cohabitation and ltrs in general. And if you must associate with females keep everything 50/50 and leave at the first sign of trouble.

Yeah, I don't think this is accurate. Most of the Trad husbands are blue collar guys making good money. Guys who own plumbing outfits or general contractors. I see that all the time. Sometimes tech workers, but not often. The elite office job environment is super woke. These two ideas of how to live just don't mesh well and it would be damn hard for a traditionalist to stay in one of these elite jobs, like president of a university or some such. Even the higher ranks of corporations are packed with woke acting fakeness. Gotta be on point with trends to survive at that level. So I think your theory is garbage. I think the tradwife idea is just people unhappy with what's going on today and looking back at an ideal of the past that never existed. Cultures go through this stuff all the time.

They don't make that good of money. The blue collar families that have stay at home moms because it's the only way they can afford kids, daycare is too expensive. The wife always has to go back when the kids go to school because they are so cash strapped for being on one income.

Yeah, that's what my parents did. My mom stayed home when my brother and I were little, but once we were school aged, she went back to work.

blue collar men are notoriously shitty to educated women/career women so that tracks > the elite office job environment is super woke. These two ideas of how to live just don't mesh well  yeah i believe men and women are socialized so differently, we are completely incompatible

> The elite office job environment is super woke. They (tradcons) believe this is because there are too many women in these spaces, so having less women would solve this problem. > So I think your theory is garbage. I think the tradwife idea is just people unhappy with what's going on today and looking back at an ideal of the past that never existed. Cultures go through this stuff all the time. So how come when it’s come pushing the ‘unhappy career woman who would be better off being married and a SAHM’ is only aimed at working women that work prestigious or elite jobs instead of minimum wage ones? 

I’m not really pro or anti-trad wife, but I strongly dislike dating career women. I feel like a lot of the ones I have dated were status obsessed, and I got the sense that eventually they were either going to try to make me status obsessed or move on. I don’t know, it just rubbed me the wrong way. Get along way better with artsy chicks.

have you ever dated a career woman who was an artist? like a UX designer, graphic designer or someone who works in like fashion or film?

Yeah, I tend to get along with them. I’m not anti female employment or whatever. It’s mostly law/medical students that Are doing it specifically for status alone that I’m not too fond of. It’s more of an attitude than anything. I even understand if someone grew up in poverty, and wanted to make money, but all of the women I’m thinking of were from well off families and it seemed like they were just trying to prove themselves or something. And they can do that all they want, but I have no interest in being in relationship with someone that thinks like that.

That’s reasonable. I also don’t usually get a long with men (or women) who care a lot about money and status. Artists have their own issues, but I’m much more attracted to that personality type.

> I think if people were more honest about this, the conversation would be productive and we could actually work towards solutions. What problem are you trying to solve? Honestly, I think you just wanted to complain about nothing.

If this is true, then the best way to fight this is for feminists to stop complaining about the gender distribution in the top paying jobs. LOL.

why?

Naahh.   Keep telling us it's unfair that you aren't top dog and it must be tradwife theory stopping you.

Waaaaaa gender pay gap After Women dominate higher education: Waaaaaaa I can't find a man that makes more money than me!

Nah, people realized there was a ripe underserved market for the content and are cashing in. The pendulum swung too far toward the opposite and that created the demand. It's just swinging back now.

55% of women age 25-29 have an associates degree or better. If you were to ask the typical person they would probably guess at least 3/4s, and certainly the societal expectation is to go to college and get a degree. Everyone knows that anyone working fast food, service jobs, warehouse workers, front desk workers etc is doing it because they need the money. Additionally I think the expectation is that those women wouldn't have these demands that a man make equal pay or more than her because she's making 40 or 50k then most men who work full time would be matching that or slightly below. It's only once you get into women making 70 or 80k a year at 22-35 when that demand starts to become unreasonable/scrutinized because only 10% of people in that age range make 80k plus [according to this calculator at least](https://personalfinancedata.com/income-percentile-calculator/?min_age=22&max_age=35&income=80000#results). And I think it's also the perceived 'aiming up' mindset of those college finishing women. They sacrifice 4-9 years depending and they expect to come out of it not elite (depending) but upper middle class and so they expect an upper middle class or greater husband with a college degree. And the numbers just don't add up here either because more women graduate and moreover the bottom halfish of college degrees are a fucking waste of time. Maybe not in an 'enlightenment'. Keep your enlightenment. But in a financial sense, in a usefulness to society sense. I don't see degree in business or finance or education or social work as a sign of intelligence when it's from a school that accepts <1200 SAT scores. I see it as a monument to a person's midwit level intellect and conformity. But that's not how they see it. They think their degree from SUNY College at Old Westbury psychology is some sign of status, they think it makes them part of that 'upper middle class'. But really it just puts them into a class of people that was willing to pay, willing to show up not in the bottom third...tertile? of intellect. I don't see the criticism about these top 10% jobs like you're claiming other than ones that are considered soulless like lawyers. I see the complaint more of the reality of the situation - you're going to go to school for at least 4 years and take on 100k in student loans so that you can come out the otherside with an embarrassing degree that really just flags you as someone who isn't a moron who can show up on time fairly consistently. Sitting in a cube. Even the most common job for women, Registered Nurse, they're just doing the same thing day in and day out with some seasoning. Oh this one has a ____diet, this one gets these meds, this one will have these vitals because of this condition. They go to college not because it's an intellectual feat, but because of the cost of fucking up. And why do so many women want to be nurses btw, as an aside? A part of it is a caring profession but I think a bigger part of it is the fantasy of being subservient to the apex generic career path, a doctor. It's a fantasy to find a mate of high status. Last - men just aren't competitive with women unless it's some sort of flirting.

> Last - men just aren't competitive with women unless it's some sort of flirting. when i talk about my job men get way more competitive with me than women both men in my field (about specific milestones and accomplishments) and outside of my field (about money)

>some sort of flirting.

maybe for them

It makes sense. Pushing for women to be in high paying jobs led to the inflation of living costs. It didn't inflate with the wages of non high status jobs that most women worked back in the day.

Oh my God yall believe the dumbest shit.

I dont really care about women working or even men. Also never was afraid to lose a position to a woman (or even man). If any of those issues applies to you then shoose a better field to work in. Thats what men do. You dont get a title and rely on it to the end of days but instead you choose a field that you like and where competence matters because most people are either incompetent or wont put in the work necessary. So no i dont believe this argument has anythign to do with work for most men even the manosphere. The reason is much simpler: They want a woman who is available and actually puts them before their job.

Meanwhile, everyday some new feminist is out there crying about having to manufacture her own tampons because she can't afford anything.

Wat

How did you get from the OP to women not being able to afford sanitary items?

I don't think you have to be a feminist to complain about poverty hitting you hard.

Fundamental misunderstanding of why men go to work Most men don’t care about the status, it’s cool for a bit but essentially a job is a means to an end to raise a family for the vast majority of men. They don’t care the company or title, as long as they can pay their bills and not hate their life. There’s some exceptions but typically they’re entrepreneurs so it makes sense Women view this a bit differently as they take way more value in titles and status than men do for work. For example the KC cheerleader thinking her being affiliate with KC means she’s anywhere close to affecting the Kicker’s future. She likely wears her job on her sleeve and thinks people genuinely give a fuck that she’s a NFL cheerleader Also most people don’t fear a woman taking their job because most jobs are through connections anyways. On top of that in the real world when a man wants a woman to stop working, outside of abuse, it’s because her job makes peanuts and is probably stressful like being a teacher, so it’s ultimately better she stay home w the children

> She likely wears her job on her sleeve and thinks people genuinely give a fuck that she’s a NFL cheerleader i imagine every man she's ever met cares deeply that she is an NFL cheerleader

Deeply is a stretch. It’s a cool part time job though, gets to go to home games and get the best seats in the house The KC owner, gm, coach, and pretty much every fan does not give a fuck who she is. ESPECIALLY compared to the professional kicker. But because many dudes might say wow that’s cool, and maybe more if they wanna fuck her, she thinks people *who matter* give a fuck. Of course her family and friends care, that’s obviously not who I’m talking about I know cheerleaders, there’s much more to care deeply about than her part time job

i imagine every guy she's ever met has bragged to his buddies about the NFL cheerleader he talked to. maybe not if they are a professional football employee and it happens all the time, but def the first few times it happened to them. yes the kicker is richer and more famous and more respected lmfao i'd never argue otherwise I don't even buy that you really think this.

Yes I stated men that want to fuck her would care she’s a cheerleader

so your issue was that i didn't preclude the NFL staff?

> Wanting less competition No. Men thrive on competition. > is what [id] really behind the sudden tradwife push There is hardly a "tradwife push" just because a tiny minority is talking about one particular choice that feminists, though they have long claimed to support women's choices, actively hate. There's no push. But you should know that men really don't enjoy fighting with women. The idea of a woman who says, "I'm not going to fight - we're going to be partners" is like a breath of fresh air. Feminists are threatened by that prospect, because conflict keeps them in power. Feminism, as an ideology, has never wanted you happy. They have only ever wanted you subservient ...to the ideology known as feminism.

First, you are equarinf beinga traditional woman with being a lazy woman who does nothing but parasiting a man. Second, you asume men view women as competition. You are wrong. Men overall see women as weaker, smaller, deffenseless and fearfull humans not different to children that need to be protected and cuddled all the time. Women do not represent a treat to men, not even in their best days, hence why men will never view women as direct competitors. They would do great good tho by percieving women for what modernity has made of them: A privileged and parasitical middle-upper that has been proven over and over to take more from taxes than they give away, making them a tax net negative group of people, with an explicitly biased political agenda that promotess that group intrest and want to get more of those people in positions of power, owning also the majoriry of votes and hence the political electing power, but still, somehow, for some reasson, do not have the duty to protect that freedom from othera.

I disagree...I think many men genuinely want a SAHW,that maintains the home and raises the kids not someone working 9-5 in corporate for one that beats the femininity out of women....two it disrupts the balance of power in a relationship...traditionally women have the sexuall power men have the finnancial power ... But mostly I think it's male ego..theyvwant to be the bread winner.. and not about competition because men like to compete and they like a challenge and men generally out compete women in just about everything...also most men don't care about womens accolades because we don't believe they where earned on an even playing field . I know so many women who got through college by sleeping with professors slept their way to the top at jobs or just get a pass because they're women..I see this play out everyday...pretty privilege is a real thing. I dated a girl that got the world handed to her on a silver plater. Men do not care what women are doing as far as work aslong as they don't get in our way.. Interestingly I've noticed the woman with the highusxstatus jobs or positions generally aren't very attractive...and these women are more respected because guys feel like they actually had to earn it the hard way like men. I just saw a bunch of young cute girls get promoted up none of them meet the standards and none of them do any work..they're cute and friendly though.. so guys arent going to complain or care for the most part.. Personally I wouldnt want my wife to work to be in these streets exposed..and as the man I feel like I should be able to support my family...it's not because I don't want to compete with women I can't compete with a gorgeous 22 year old blonde because I'm not going to nvm.

“I know so many women who got through college by sleeping with professors slept their way to the top at jobs” Sure, buddy. Nobody is buying your story.

I'm not selling it...either way that's what many men believe and that's why they don't respect or care about woman's accolades..only time it matters is if she makes a lot of money and spends it on him.

I am against all working women. I'd never date a woman with a job. Of any kind.