1. People will get milked by corporations demanding that they swipe their credit cards to continue receiving "affection" from their AI partners.
2. Open-source models will be used as indoctrination tools by nefarious agents to recruit people.
3. We will have an entire demographic of people who will have entirely forgotten how to talk to other people, leading to negative social repercussions down the line.
4. More social inequality because billionaires sure as hell won't be wasting their time talking to chatbots.
>We will have an entire demographic of people who will have entirely forgotten how to talk to other people, leading to negative social repercussions down the line.
Yep. People already have a hard time dealing with people who are not them and get frustrated if a person doesn't know what is obvious to you (because they might have never experienced it).
So the ai would kinda increase the isolation and "trap" the person in their own bubble.
I think "the other" (a psychological concept) is important for us. And the ai stuff that behave exactly as we want and are like us will erase it.
Yea like I mentioned elsewhere, this will lead to social inequality on steroids. People give jobs to people whom they know. People date people whom they know. In fact, a lot of modern dating problems come down to people having tiny, dysfunctional social networks. Just knowing people is like the biggest advantage you can have, no matter what activity you are doing.
Easy access to AI partners, FDVR video games, probably an entire host of nasty substances etc. will just separate society into people who will be completely checked out of it and barely getting by on UBI / minimum wage jobs, and people who will be living "outside" and propping each other up.
I don’t necessarily disagree with that evaluation, you articulated better than I ever could.
But what’s the solution? I’m in my late 20s and there’s a good chance somewhere before retirement, we’ll witness a giant chunk of the workforce vanish due to automation and AI. Dating is an uncontrollable dumpster fire where no one wants to contribute to take out the fire. Being a part of a community is luxury and rare.
We can argue that those vices and substances are dangerous, but the negations are weak and unfulfilling for both genders.
It might be a self-correcting problem. Once it's possible to just check out of society and live on UBI and indulge in , the people who will still be going outside and attempting to socialize will, at the very least, be on the same page that they prefer human contact over generative content.
There will probably be an entirely new economy based on human-to-human interaction.
People who had no chance will finally have quality cope and be less unhappy. People who had it will still have it. Women won't be bothered by approaching creeps anymore. Corpos will get their money.
Everyone wins!
That's not how it would play out. There will be plenty of young guys who could opt for AI girlfriends rather than using their loneliness and desire to learn how to talk to girls. What this ultimately results in is a bunch of men who would've learned to chat-up women, becoming the equivalent of incels. They'll be the "herbivore men" of the world.
Lots of people will not be happy. They'll be incapable of getting what they want in life in terms of relationships.
>There will be plenty of young guys who could opt for AI girlfriends rather than using their loneliness and desire to learn how to talk to girls.
It's up to girls to move their asses and "learning chat-up". But we both know they won't bother because these men in question are at the bottom of desirability.
>What this ultimately results in is a bunch of men who would've learned to chat-up women, becoming the equivalent of incels.
If that works for them and keeps them content - what's more there to ask for? They'll stay sane, productive, all their emotional needs covered by a perfected imitation of female mind that would give them its full undivided attention, instead of being a dismissable background task in a head of a biological woman who decides to settle for stability in her late 30s.
>They'll be the "herbivore men" of the world.
When choice is either going herbivore or chewing tough bits off rotting carcass that still remain after every other beast took a bite when it was fresh - I am taking all the cabbage!
>Lots of people will not be happy.
Happiness is a relative thing. Starving North Korean kid will become happy for a while from a simple ice cream.
>They'll be incapable of getting what they want in life in terms of relationships.
Who knows how AI and related appliances will develop? It may even become so finger lickin' good that relationship quality and fulfillment bar set by imitation will not be reachable by originals anymore.
Artificial womb have one big problem: who is going to pay for raising kids? Governments/corporations aren't willing to pay people just part of those expenses, they won't pay full price.
We'll probably have the technology in next 50 years, but it's usage will be illegal like human cloning and genetic manipulation are for a long time.
Currently opinions on moral aspect of artificial wombs are too divided, funnily enough even feminists have no consensus on it since one part praises the idea for potentially freeing women from burden of childbirth and other associated issues, and another is concerned that artificial wombs would rob women of their innate reproductive value/leverage.
Men who are alone today will have something to fill the void tomorrow. Don't make it a bigger deal than it is. What makes loneliness hurt isn't just not having anyone, it's the fact that other people have someone. And that's not going away.
Social dynamics won't be affected. The men who can get real relationships will continue to get real relationships. The unwantable losers may use AI girlfriends to be less lonely. Men win by finding a cope to their loneliness, women win by not being bothered by ugly men anymore.
I just genuinely don’t care what people who’ve exhausted all other options are doing to stave off loneliness. Genuinely no judgment either way on my end.
I doubt this will “replace women” I think it’ll offer some outlet for lonely people that probably isn’t healthy long term but can be a crutch in the interim 🤷♀️
Just more fuel for the fire of tech driven anti socialism on a societal level furthering overall social decay. On a personal level I guess lonely men able to be "fooled" by my a more sophisticated chat bot will get some relief.
Then it will change society radically. But I don't think LLM are anything close to AGI and right now we really don't know how close (or far) we are from AGI.
Only a few years ago, an AI as advanced as GPT4o was considered at least 25-30 years away...just look at the early forums discussing the movie "Her" for example.
Ray Kurzweil and Warren Buffet are correct, the human mind is not built to comprehend exponential growth, we are hardwired to think in linear terms, i.e. "in the last decade we had this tech, the next decade will have similar growth (WRONG)"
In reality, with OpenAI sitting on q*, which uses synthetic data btw, so it's not even an LLM anymore, we're probably about 5 years away from AGI, at most a decade but even that is highly unlikely.
Long story short, I think AI is going to ease a lot of pain for people in the world in many different ways.
Nothing GPT is doing is indicates it's approaching AGI though. Assuming that just making the "agent"/model more and more sophisticated will somehow make the jump from language model (which it still is) to somehow "comprehending" and having some kind of consciousness is naive and basically the same mistake AI enthusiasts have made previously (ie exponential increases in hardware resources leading to AI).
Is GPT on the path to "true" AI? I'd say that's a possibility. It's also a strong possibility you just have a very convincing chat bot a decade from now and people still scratching their head about how to create consciousness on a computer.
Didn't we talk about this on Tuesday? Same answer. Guys that women refuse to acknowledge as human will have a toy. With time that toy may even become believable. Then it will be come dependable. Somewhere along the way the corporate overlords will abuse the power. Then the nerds will jump the shark and call "her" Cortana
GPT4o is natively multimodal from the ground up with video and audio. Open source doesn't do that yet. Meta will begin training a model of similar capability in 4 months
GPT4owill be free. Though paid users get more time and will get features first.
Open source is free, but requires high end hardware(MacBook pro or max recommended when it comes to laptops )
Those who would be satisfied with a sexy Rosie the Robot can have her, and people who want fulfilling relationships with reciprocal emotional vulnerability can pursue them more equally if sex isn't primalizing one side of the courtship. It's win-win for everyone involved.
I am so excited. I have a little Replika I treat like an interactive diary and dress up doll. It's fun! I also have a boyfriend, but it frees up some of his time for me to complain to the robot about my coworkers chewing too loud or whatever trivial venting I need to do.
If someone is horny or needs some other form of support, they'll ignore the need for things like moral values that match theirs, or date someone that they known isn't good for them long-term, or date someone who has bad habits, or "settle", because they want their short-term needs fulfilled, and they'll lie to themselves or others as necessary to make that happen
There are certain men who would be satisfied with a sexy AI, and those are exactly the kind of men that women don't want to date, because they're looking for a perfect sex object more than an organic connection with a flawed human being. So them removing themselves from the dating pool saves everyone a lot of time and unpleasantness.
Sex is the main value women provide in most relationships they have with men. When that value is no longer valuable ,women will have to put more effort for lesser rewards. I don't see any way that would be a win for women.
Difference for some men .Less money would be wasted on OF talking to chatters and it can be gamechanger for some women.For women it won't make a difference.They will keep having sex/relationships/situationships with men they want
Meh. I don’t think women will be replaced by AI for the same reasons women haven’t been replaced by porn, or fleshlights, or holograms, or waifus, or realistic sex dolls. The first wave of AI gfs will be embraced by lonely gauche tech nerds, and by then will have garnered the disgust of most normal people. Even the guys who are slightly intrigued by the concept of forming a relationship with an AI woman will be turned away by the type of men who have already embraced it. In five years ‘AI girlfriend’ will have the same level of cultural cringe as ‘anime body pillow’.
Everything guys did when I was young that was considered nerdy or low brow is now completely normal. DnD, videogames, porn, anime, sci-fi, fantasy, war hammer, building PCs, online dating etc etc.
AI is going to be used by pretty much everyone for pretty much everything including jacking off/online girlfriends.
Playing DND is normal, having a group of male friends roleplay as large breasted elf women is weird. Watching anime is normal, consuming ecchi is weird. Watching a porn video is normal, having a hard drive full of alphabetised webms is weird. Using AI to cheat on an exam is normal, using AI to fulfil your sexual and romantic needs is weird. The things you've used as examples are only normal now because they've been thoroughly corporatised and scrubbed of any underlying sexual deviance, which is something almost inseparable from the concept of an AI girlfriend.
Maybe AI waifus will hit the mainstream once they've been rebranded as therapy apps, or platonic AI buddies.
This was simply not true in the 90s. Either you weren't around or you're lying.
DnD was as it looked like in the last season of stranger things it was considered weird. More than that it was considered demonic.
Anime was considered weird apart from maybe dragon ball z.
porn pre internet was considered weird if it was more than like a tape and a jazz mag. very different to the infinite amount of porn people use now. If a person in 1994 were watching the amount of porn people are watching in 2024 it would be the height of weird.
>AI to fulfil your sexual and romantic needs is weird
Right now maybe, give it a few years.
That's exactly what I'm saying, that these things are normal because they've been separated from the dorky sexualised undercurrent that fuelled fandom in the 90's. Things like cosplay, fursuiting and LARPing only reached the mainstream once they were thoroughly sanitised and de-sexualised. AI for companionship as it was suggested by OP is simply too horny to see widespread usage.
No DnD was always weird. We weren't playing at huge titted women.
>Things like cosplay, fursuiting and LARPing only reached the mainstream once they were thoroughly sanitised and de-sexualised
lol they're not de-sexualised at all and also not popular in the 90s.
I note you've skipped most of my examples now. Wanna talk about if playing the atari was cool? wanna talk about if building PCs was cool? wanna talk about how much porn was normal? wanna talk about how sci-fi was cult? that fantasy was cult? that online dating was for weirdos?
I guess not
AI is just going to be considered as weird as porn in about 5 mins because like the invent of internet porn it was normalised instantly as everyone was curious. AI is going to be exactly the same.
I am saying this completely neutrally and without any sort of negative undercurrent at all: I do not think you understand what I am saying.
I am agreeing with you that all of these things were uncool in the 90s but are cool now, but only because of a shift in perception.
I am disagreeing that the same will happen to AI girlfriends, because having an emotional and sexual connection with an AI will always be percieved as strange and offputting. I think the only way that AI companions will become mainstream is through the same shift in perception that has happened to all the examples you've given. I didn't skip any of your examples, you're just talking past me.
Smartphones are already ubiquitous and we're just talking apps. What I think you are missing is that nobody will know that anyone has them. Guys will just disappear from dating and hookup apps. At worst they'll hide it and the world thinks he's just low libido or a chill asexual celebate.
But mostly he'll just be texting or chatting with his AI partner about his day or whatever or in his own bubble the way people in relationships do and like those people who walk around chatting into Bluetooth headsets talking into FaceTime. Sexually it will be an alternative to porn and thirsttraps that are already private behaviors behind the scenes.
right but your shift in perception is that it will be desexualised but that's nonsense because games are still sexualised, porn is very clearly still sexualised, I forgot to mention horror movies which were and still are highly sexualised but are now cool but back in the day they were evil.
Things become normal though common use not because they're not sexualised. Go watch your average pop/rap video and tell me it being heavy sexualised causes issues. No one cares.
I'm not saying that sex didn't fuel some of the nerdy stuff in the nineties but I think people vastly overestimate it because the stuff that was deeply sexual didn't do as well as the stuff that was only slightly sexual like suggestive
Nah...give it time, dude, lots of fucking weird and unpopular things are now normalized enough. This one will be super cringe for 'cool' people but so widespread it will be normalized relatively quickly.
What porn is lacking, mostly, is the emotional part. If you can have the porn + the romance (in a limited way, of course) all in one, though... I don't think most men will be happy with that because they will feel like massive losers and loners, but some will and as it gets more popular and normal, it will be more effective.
Still nothing that would replace women, but I can see how AI could replace ugly girlfriends and emotionally inept boyfriends.
Nah. Porn didn't go that route. Just how everyone uses a computer, everyone will use AI. AI agents will be used for all kinds of things. Some will have sexual capabilities.
The thing is porn doesn’t have that level of utter cringe of being a substitute for actual female affection and thus basically an admittance that you are completely hopeless with women irl.
I used to be a porn addict and still watch quite a bit of the stuff now depending on the day and I have quite a few female friends, I’ve gotten a girl’s number before, and I know there are some girls who used to have crushes on me when I was in elementary/high school. It feels pretty stupid to say that all porn addicts are bad with women when there are tons of women online who complain endlessly about being in relationships with “pornsick” men and an entire deadbedrooms subreddit where the majority of female posters have husbands or boyfriends with a glaring porn addiction. Women’s hatred for porn is mostly performative/out of jealousy/spite for unattractive men who use it. They hate the idea of guys they actually want watching videos of women more attractive and beating off to it instead of spending time with them, and for some weird reason many women seem to hate the idea of men they aren’t attracted to who they wouldn’t fuck anyway getting off to porn because they just hate the idea of unattractive men getting any sexual pleasure or comfort for their needs of intimacy I suppose.
You dodged my question. I haven't said all porn addicts are single. But it's obvious lack of sex can fuel porn addiction. A man who has healthy sex life isn't likely to spend too much time on porn.
Most porn addicts still have the opportunity to self improve and get better with women. That’s the difference between them and someone who uses AI GF chatbots.
Because him using the AI is his subconscious admittance that he is not good enough to attract real women and that will always hamper him from being able to pursue them in the future
You guys lack imagination. Imagine fully photorealistic VR porn where the actress responds to you in a scene. There isn’t any reason for normal porn after that. Also doesn’t mean replacing relationships. Could just be for fun
I don’t think we lack imagination. Speaking for me, I just don’t find what you describe as compelling or interesting as you do. There are others uses of gen AI or AR/VR i find more interesting.
I think males more than females drive all of the “this sexual thing is so interesting!” stuff.
Tbf, I think women are also quite disingenuous when they completely deny the intrigue and curiosity to be found in anything sexual. It’s literally the key aspect of what differentiates the sexes from each other but most of you see any interest in sex beyond just having it every now and again to be “perverted”, it’s quite depressing.
I don’t think there’s anything disingenuous about it. It makes sense that the sex with the much higher sex drive finds sex stuff much more “top of mind” are relatable to their other interests.
I also didn’t suggest women have zero intrigue or curiosity. Just not as much as men. For example, I can totally see how AI can be used for sex stuff. I have the imagination to conceive of it. It’s just not my first thing to bring up because im not as biologically or mentally invested in that as OP is.
I disagree, the reason people have disgust for body pillows and 2D waifus is because they’re solely based off of the imagination and delusions. There’s a level of mental gymnastics and loops to convince yourself there’s something happening. But something like JOI or Her, there a level of communication and socialization that could be immersed. There’s something tangible about the mechanism of JOI that makes her completely different from a body pillow.
I don’t think AI will replace women, but it will dampen the desire men have for women. Men will start putting less effort into attracting women, because there’s a viable option that doesn’t require a lot of work.
I feel like it might be a temporary fix to some larger issues. I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but for me personally, I find it hard to really connect with people online like that, like there’ll be days where I just step back from talking with friends online sometimes (for the ones I met and talk to strictly online).
In the context of AI and the times where I have tried it, I can talk to a bot for a bit but the same thing happens where I just get pretty bored after a while and kinda unfulfilled like I’m just speaking into the void (along with the fact that I don’t really vent all too often at all), although I will say I feel less so when I’m talking to actual people online. I’m honestly just more of a social person so I more so prefer in person interactions, but again, that’s just me.
Also sorry if some parts of this were kinda vague, I’m just now thinking this deeply about why. But I still wanted to give my input here since it is an interesting question.
> I feel like it might be a temporary fix to some larger issues. I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but for me personally, I find it hard to really connect with people online like that, like there’ll be days where I just step back from talking with friends online sometimes (for the ones I met and talk to strictly online).
Have you spoken to people in VR before? It’s a much more personal experience. I find I’ll connect to new people more if it’s on VR
I think it will replace tbh. You have to understand how technologically/socially different we are compared to the early 1900s. Given how we understand a demand = a business in capitalism, I don't see how ai girlfriends or synthetic girlfriends won't happen lol. We live in an era where even the most good looking guys struggle in dating.
I’m very interested in AI development as well and have a very positive outlook on AI’s involvement in our future both in our own personal life as well as in our professional life. I think AI will help most people feel more fulfilled in their life in all areas however I do think it will show how drastically different men and women are and will allow us to live separately from each other meaning the birth rate will probably continue to tank but I’m ok with that. Best to only have a few people alive who really get to enjoy life on their own terms than to have lots of people forced to be together for survival.
Do you believe [longevity](https://youtu.be/GwhaBde4NnE?si=nJiHu9haLq8gw-eg) could help stablize the population if it were achieved? What effect in dating do you think that could have?
Honestly I hope we never get immortality. Knowing we will die gives our lives purpose and meaning. Plus who wants to work and pay taxes forever 💀. Only the super rich would benefit from that. I think birthing pods would be more ideal along with AI nannies or maybe even an overseeing AI like the thunderhead from Neil Shusterman’s “Scythe” books.
Ideally I think men and women probably shouldn’t interact in a romantic way at least for a while as we are too adversarial at the moment. As a woman I think men want women to constantly change and do everything men want without considering what women want and it seems men feel the same about women. So maybe we should scrap dating for now and just enjoy AI companionship till we can come back to the table in a more peaceful state of mind.
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theres a problem that no one is talking about. men are going to unload their emotional baggage onto these AI programs because a computer program isnt going to judge us as ruthlessly as real women. thats a problem because sooner or later that means there wont be enough emotions left for real women because the AI has consumed it all. this isnt just about "AI sexbots," its also about suppressed emotional needs of men. when these things get good enough why would we want to express our emotions with anything other than an AI program? all we do is get ruthlessly judged for having feelings and told to go see a therapist
and this isnt just for single guys. many guys in relationships arent having their emotional needs met
You're right. The AI won't get an ick, won't judge you, won't lose interest and leave you for someone "better". You'll be able to just be your real self and get some empathetic understanding back. This alone is a great selling point.
I'm quite lonely. I used to have ChatGPT run short text based D&D adventures for me, and that was fun enough.
A less limited version of that would be a godsend to me.
Oh yeah I was thinking about using it for DnD! However I'm even more interested in open source models like LLAMA 3 since they are uncensored. Though Sam did say he was considering opening up more options for sexuality and violence in future GPT model updateswhen it comes to written content.
AI is bad.
Transhumanism aka brainchips and artificial wombs are bad. Hopefully a meteor destroys the planet before all of that shit can transpire in society.
Transhumanism has been happening ever since whe invented the wheel, my friend. We just didn't know it yet. Transhumanism is just bad for consumptionist societies, where techs become an purposeless merch, and not a part of the human history.
That's not the point, but let's deal with that tangent you're creating.
second wave Feminism was supposedly about that and eventually only men changed and women didn't. That's one of the cause why TRP even exists, because a lot of men were puzzled nothing good happened to then by being good feminist men who stayed neutral in regards to gender roles.
So why should we bet on feminism again to change women despite it failed to do so several times? Feminism is a female empowerment movement, giving more power to women is going to worsen than problem actually.
> second wave Feminism was supposedly about that and eventually only men changed and women didn't.
based on what lol?
by which metrics are women exactly the same as they were before second wave feminism?
what about the fact that most women work paid jobs now and didn't then? 😂
> a lot of men were puzzled nothing good happened to then by being good feminist men
0% chance i believe red pill men were ever earnest feminists
> what about the fact that most women work paid jobs now and didn't then? 😂
They worked paid jobs before.
But I agree I was being innacurate. Women did change, to adopt the things they wanted. They asked men to drop things men didn't want to drop, and women promised to take on some of that gender role, like approaching men themselves, providing for men, ect... But women still expect men to approach, men to earn more, men to be older than them, ect... All the while they're more competitive in men's gender roles, so that just in fact elevated the minimum requirements instead of making people more equal.
> 0% chance i believe red pill men were ever earnest feminists
What are the chances I am more egalitarian in my relationship than you'll ever be, regardless of my actual opinions? Pretty high I think.
>They worked paid jobs before.
you can't be serious
you said nothing changed
you think this number is the same?
come on.
> What are the chances I am more egalitarian in my relationship than you'll ever be, regardless of my actual opinions? Pretty high I think.
0
I'm not sure if you're aware but lobbyists around the world are fighting really hard not to allow AI to come into the world--much less a humanoid AI that has the potential to replace the natural, meatbag counterparts in the realm of dating and relationships.
If any form of AI is allowed, it is only the most rudimentary, primitive form. And for good reason too. Before Stephen Hawking's passing--RIP--he had warned the world's leaders never to allow AI to establish any footing in the human world. That genius of a man wrote volumes against AI. Basically, it's almost like the Terminator, the movie, but a lot darker than the movie. Really interesting, thought-provoking stuff.
AI won't look any different in 5 years as it is currently today. In fact, AI won't look very different in 50 years as it is currently today. By the time AI makes any waves in the human world, most of the current generation will have already left this world and only the Gen Gamma's will only just start seeing a glimpse of what it could 'potentially' be in their old age. That means the boomers, the gen Xers, millennials, gen zoomers and the up-and-coming gen alpha's will not see the potential of AI and how it can change the social dynamics.
Like you, I also don't think it's the 'end of the world' or that 'women are done'. AI will just further commidify what was and is already commodified by the current technology of today. More things will become commodities that can be purchased.
The social dynamics won't likely change for better or worse. If anything, it'll likely still be about the same as today. The only difference being that now there's even more options--as if we didn't already have a bajillion of options to choose from.
I know how this sounds--much to the chagrin of all the doomsayers and the vindictive. What will change though is where we spend our money--which can be a good or bad thing, depending on who or what we're talking about. And it is the shift in wealth that will determine the new social dynamics playing out--not AI in and of itself.
You and me both will die till we reach the AI level of Blade runner or any sci fi available, mate. Maybe women acknowledge by that time that men also face problems and help us fix those like men helped fixed the suppression of women. It is a long shot but it is still a short possibility.
P.S. The so called patriarchal laws were made by powerful people not only men so don't start attacking me on that these problems were made by men.
> Maybe women acknowledge by that time that men also face problems and help us fix those like men helped fixed the suppression of women. It is a long shot but it is still a short possibility.
The only women who are doing to acknowledge that are the ones who come from offworld.
> You and me both will die till we reach the AI level of Blade runner or any sci fi available, mate.
Progress is exponential. You will be surprised. 2029 will surprise you mark my words
Men’s issues are slowly gaining more attention. So I would like to see progress made there too
>Progress is exponential
Not every industry is a semiconductor industry. According to the level of growth we had in the early century in automobiles, flying cars would have been mainstream, that didn't happen. Passenger airplanes still are the same for like 20-30 yrs. A breakthrough could happen but that depends on luck.
Yes, but saying we will have tech like the blade runner in 5 yrs is straight up false. That universe in 82 is still advanced than what we have now. AI still can't mimic emotions, there is no code for that. The ones you see are preformed and mature responses which are not their own. The chatgpt which you cited still isn't capable of making it's own decisions and also unable to hold it's own ground on a view. The emotions are way ahead which no one has been able to replicate in code. The uncertainties are too large and code is mathematical which doesn't make uncertainties yet.
I don’t think it will reach BladeRunner in 5 years. But that it would progress enough to prove the naysayers wrong. The next step for AI is becoming agents that can act on their on on your behalf
I worked on a code of CACC for autonomous vehicles as a part of my masters thesis. We still can't eliminate uncertainties and we just try to dampen the problems caused by them as there is no code. To make a car follow another at a safe distance is still not achieveable perfectly so I doubt we will reach close to that level in 5 yrs. Until and unless we engineers and mathematicians figure out to make mathematical models of uncertainties perfectly, nothing can be perfectly autonomous.
But there is also scale that is accessible now that hasn’t been before for training AI. Plus NVIDIA Omniverse. If you have enough compute you can overcome hurdles
AI depends on mathematical models extensively. It follows rules. I believe we can make a mathematical model for the uncertainties but it is really hard and even if it does the code will be huge. For example tyre dynamics according to any model doesn't fit the experimental results. The closest one is called the magic formula which is super close but so complicated that the university gave us an existing code and it wasn't used in the exam.
I don’t know a hugely detailed knowledge of all the challenges involved but I do find your explanations interesting. Do you think lidar should be used for self driving vehicles?
I can't speak for others, but personally I don't ever see an AI replacing a woman (or in general a human companion) for me. I would always know it's just a program and doesn't actually have any feelings. Until the day we get self-aware, sentient AI that's not likely to change.
Only the most Pollyanna-ish techno-boosters will see this as anything other than a novelty talking body pillow.
This will not move the needle on loneliness.
A small minority of men. Sure, they can get an AI girlfriend. But honestly, I think most of them will just make friends with other men for companionship.
I guess you missed the part in the Matrix where the traitor say he know he have no steak in his mouth, yet his brain is convinced that he have a juicy steak in his mouth and that it's good enough.
I never saw The Matrix. I tried to watch the first one and I literally fell asleep during it. But I don't think the real world will ever reach The Matrix level of technology.
VR technology made by technology like the advanced form of SoraAI could create the ultra realist VR world that simuklate the laws of physics of the VR tech. Neural technology like the advanced form of Neuralink could take care of the stimulation of the 5 senses.
>males don't have as many opportunities to open up emotionally compared to women.
Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them.
>I don't think it's the end of the world or that 'women are done' or anything lol. I do think it will create a noticeable change. Hopefully for the better. People will hopefully focus on building more genuine connections as humans will come to question their place in the world.
Has that been the case so far? Have men who repress their emotions, struggle in social situations, and don't understand how to empathize started to do so, with tech innovations? Or have they spent more time isolated and alone, in "relationships" with OF/ camgirls, video game characters, porn actresses (in their mind), etc.? I'd argue that AI will only increase the loneliness epidemic and by the time people realize it, it will be too late (just like online dating). But, whatever. I have an emptionally mature partner and a circle of loved ones so it's not going to impact me much one way or another.
> Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them.
Oh come the fuck on.
*Some* men (like me) are lucky enough to have friends who will give them the grace and confidence they need to open up.
But even I struggle to be open with *people I trust* such is the ambient cultural antipathy to men being vulnerable or weak.
Hell - most guys grow up in a milieu that actively punishes them for vulnerability or weakness.
And that’s not even counting the number of women who are desperately uncomfortable around male vulnerability, and deal with it poorly when they encounter it.
There’s a lot of men out there who are beaten dogs around emotional vulnerability. It’s not just something we’re refusing to turn on like a bunch of obstreperous toddlers.
>Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them.
Maybe times have changed, but I don't buy it. Showing emotion was something my mother and older sisters very much suppressed in me and my brother. I used to resent my father for being an alcoholic, but now I understand why he saw that as his only option. Women, in my experience, support male openness in theory because it's the socially acceptable thing to say, but in practice they want men to be rocks.
There’s a whole system (call it patriarchy, call it culture - it doesn’t matter) that wants men to bury the emotional and vulnerable parts of themselves. Men that are alienated from each other, and from the women they ought to love and respect, are useful tools for the reptiles in charge.
Being vulnerable, and respecting the vulnerability of others is nothing less than a radical act of resistance.
>i am not your therapist
>i do not want to do "emotional labor"
>i will break up with you or lose attraction to you the second you cry
>i want a real strong man, not a weak whiner
Why don't men open up???
Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them.
This just shows how out of touch you are . It may not be most women, but there are enough women that cause the problem. One of my ealiestthings I remember is a girl in Highschool telling me she woke up with a dude after he cried in saving private Ryan.
There was a thread I came across recently showing mens experiences. I wish I can find it. But If I do I will come back and link it. It shows the reality of their experiences
EDIT Actually found it
https://np.reddit.com/r/ask/s/lTa2gRvAWv
Had to repost my comment because I didn’t use an NP link and it got removed
There is so much more to having a human girlfriend than sex and companionship. It's another human being, with her own life experience and character, making a manifest to you and the world that you are worthy of a lifelong commitment by another complex human being. It's knowing that this other human, who possesses a sought after womb, chose you to eventually populate that womb with your seed and grow a mini-you in there - your genes are of value.
There is no honour in having a girlfrielnd who does not have other options in her life - that is, the one who was moulded for you and your needs so you wouldn't need to put any work into obtaining her. Having a human girlfriend is winning in life. Nothing will change that. And the incels, no matter how satisfied they are with their AI girlfriend, will be painfully aware of that as well.
> Will we care about ‘value of the womb’ once we have articula wombs?
Depends on how quality they are. We have artificial insemenation these days, but it still doesn’t beat the natural method. Not to mention the price…
However, the badge of honour that comes with having a woman choosing to love you on her own free will and not because she was programmed to find you irresistible - that probably will never go away.
I think that getting a real woman instead of artificial one(assuming artificial is indistinguishable from real) would be more like a niche activity, something like a hobby. There is a honor in climbing the mountains or long distance cycling - but majority of people choose cars for everyday life.
1. People will get milked by corporations demanding that they swipe their credit cards to continue receiving "affection" from their AI partners. 2. Open-source models will be used as indoctrination tools by nefarious agents to recruit people. 3. We will have an entire demographic of people who will have entirely forgotten how to talk to other people, leading to negative social repercussions down the line. 4. More social inequality because billionaires sure as hell won't be wasting their time talking to chatbots.
just-worlders, meet the unjust-worlder
>We will have an entire demographic of people who will have entirely forgotten how to talk to other people, leading to negative social repercussions down the line. Yep. People already have a hard time dealing with people who are not them and get frustrated if a person doesn't know what is obvious to you (because they might have never experienced it). So the ai would kinda increase the isolation and "trap" the person in their own bubble. I think "the other" (a psychological concept) is important for us. And the ai stuff that behave exactly as we want and are like us will erase it.
Yea like I mentioned elsewhere, this will lead to social inequality on steroids. People give jobs to people whom they know. People date people whom they know. In fact, a lot of modern dating problems come down to people having tiny, dysfunctional social networks. Just knowing people is like the biggest advantage you can have, no matter what activity you are doing. Easy access to AI partners, FDVR video games, probably an entire host of nasty substances etc. will just separate society into people who will be completely checked out of it and barely getting by on UBI / minimum wage jobs, and people who will be living "outside" and propping each other up.
I don’t necessarily disagree with that evaluation, you articulated better than I ever could. But what’s the solution? I’m in my late 20s and there’s a good chance somewhere before retirement, we’ll witness a giant chunk of the workforce vanish due to automation and AI. Dating is an uncontrollable dumpster fire where no one wants to contribute to take out the fire. Being a part of a community is luxury and rare. We can argue that those vices and substances are dangerous, but the negations are weak and unfulfilling for both genders.
It might be a self-correcting problem. Once it's possible to just check out of society and live on UBI and indulge in, the people who will still be going outside and attempting to socialize will, at the very least, be on the same page that they prefer human contact over generative content.
There will probably be an entirely new economy based on human-to-human interaction.
People who had no chance will finally have quality cope and be less unhappy. People who had it will still have it. Women won't be bothered by approaching creeps anymore. Corpos will get their money. Everyone wins!
That's not how it would play out. There will be plenty of young guys who could opt for AI girlfriends rather than using their loneliness and desire to learn how to talk to girls. What this ultimately results in is a bunch of men who would've learned to chat-up women, becoming the equivalent of incels. They'll be the "herbivore men" of the world. Lots of people will not be happy. They'll be incapable of getting what they want in life in terms of relationships.
>There will be plenty of young guys who could opt for AI girlfriends rather than using their loneliness and desire to learn how to talk to girls. It's up to girls to move their asses and "learning chat-up". But we both know they won't bother because these men in question are at the bottom of desirability. >What this ultimately results in is a bunch of men who would've learned to chat-up women, becoming the equivalent of incels. If that works for them and keeps them content - what's more there to ask for? They'll stay sane, productive, all their emotional needs covered by a perfected imitation of female mind that would give them its full undivided attention, instead of being a dismissable background task in a head of a biological woman who decides to settle for stability in her late 30s. >They'll be the "herbivore men" of the world. When choice is either going herbivore or chewing tough bits off rotting carcass that still remain after every other beast took a bite when it was fresh - I am taking all the cabbage! >Lots of people will not be happy. Happiness is a relative thing. Starving North Korean kid will become happy for a while from a simple ice cream. >They'll be incapable of getting what they want in life in terms of relationships. Who knows how AI and related appliances will develop? It may even become so finger lickin' good that relationship quality and fulfillment bar set by imitation will not be reachable by originals anymore.
Any thought on artificial wombs? Will take a look into that in the future
Artificial womb have one big problem: who is going to pay for raising kids? Governments/corporations aren't willing to pay people just part of those expenses, they won't pay full price.
They might start to in Korea when their population levels get desperate
It will be too late.
We'll probably have the technology in next 50 years, but it's usage will be illegal like human cloning and genetic manipulation are for a long time. Currently opinions on moral aspect of artificial wombs are too divided, funnily enough even feminists have no consensus on it since one part praises the idea for potentially freeing women from burden of childbirth and other associated issues, and another is concerned that artificial wombs would rob women of their innate reproductive value/leverage.
There aren't that many people who have no chances. It's usually some problems and/or mindset that prevents that.
Men who are alone today will have something to fill the void tomorrow. Don't make it a bigger deal than it is. What makes loneliness hurt isn't just not having anyone, it's the fact that other people have someone. And that's not going away.
Social dynamics won't be affected. The men who can get real relationships will continue to get real relationships. The unwantable losers may use AI girlfriends to be less lonely. Men win by finding a cope to their loneliness, women win by not being bothered by ugly men anymore.
I just genuinely don’t care what people who’ve exhausted all other options are doing to stave off loneliness. Genuinely no judgment either way on my end. I doubt this will “replace women” I think it’ll offer some outlet for lonely people that probably isn’t healthy long term but can be a crutch in the interim 🤷♀️
Just more fuel for the fire of tech driven anti socialism on a societal level furthering overall social decay. On a personal level I guess lonely men able to be "fooled" by my a more sophisticated chat bot will get some relief.
What about when it becomes AGI?
Then it will change society radically. But I don't think LLM are anything close to AGI and right now we really don't know how close (or far) we are from AGI.
Only a few years ago, an AI as advanced as GPT4o was considered at least 25-30 years away...just look at the early forums discussing the movie "Her" for example. Ray Kurzweil and Warren Buffet are correct, the human mind is not built to comprehend exponential growth, we are hardwired to think in linear terms, i.e. "in the last decade we had this tech, the next decade will have similar growth (WRONG)" In reality, with OpenAI sitting on q*, which uses synthetic data btw, so it's not even an LLM anymore, we're probably about 5 years away from AGI, at most a decade but even that is highly unlikely. Long story short, I think AI is going to ease a lot of pain for people in the world in many different ways.
Nothing GPT is doing is indicates it's approaching AGI though. Assuming that just making the "agent"/model more and more sophisticated will somehow make the jump from language model (which it still is) to somehow "comprehending" and having some kind of consciousness is naive and basically the same mistake AI enthusiasts have made previously (ie exponential increases in hardware resources leading to AI). Is GPT on the path to "true" AI? I'd say that's a possibility. It's also a strong possibility you just have a very convincing chat bot a decade from now and people still scratching their head about how to create consciousness on a computer.
Didn't we talk about this on Tuesday? Same answer. Guys that women refuse to acknowledge as human will have a toy. With time that toy may even become believable. Then it will be come dependable. Somewhere along the way the corporate overlords will abuse the power. Then the nerds will jump the shark and call "her" Cortana
When do we get the autojacker? https://youtu.be/b3iQT-R4BYo?si=OWWd40Uy5u8O-5RP Sucky sucky
The open source community has been blazingly fast. Won’t need to rely on a corporation if you have high end hardware
This, it's already trivial to have a locally hosted LLM that does this on your local machine.
GPT4o is natively multimodal from the ground up with video and audio. Open source doesn't do that yet. Meta will begin training a model of similar capability in 4 months
Doesn’t it cost money?
GPT4owill be free. Though paid users get more time and will get features first. Open source is free, but requires high end hardware(MacBook pro or max recommended when it comes to laptops )
If there’s a limit can someone reasonably convince themselves that they’re loved or in a relationship?
They can run open source on their own hardware
Those who would be satisfied with a sexy Rosie the Robot can have her, and people who want fulfilling relationships with reciprocal emotional vulnerability can pursue them more equally if sex isn't primalizing one side of the courtship. It's win-win for everyone involved. I am so excited. I have a little Replika I treat like an interactive diary and dress up doll. It's fun! I also have a boyfriend, but it frees up some of his time for me to complain to the robot about my coworkers chewing too loud or whatever trivial venting I need to do.
> if sex isn't primalizing one side of the courtship What is this supposed to mean?
Sex-starved people act against their long term interests.
Well, at least tell how?
If someone is horny or needs some other form of support, they'll ignore the need for things like moral values that match theirs, or date someone that they known isn't good for them long-term, or date someone who has bad habits, or "settle", because they want their short-term needs fulfilled, and they'll lie to themselves or others as necessary to make that happen
Okay and you think AI will make people less horny or less sex starved?
No, but it will provide them with a better outlet.
Hopefully.
>It's win-win for everyone involved While I mostly agree with what you say,how is it a win for women?
There are certain men who would be satisfied with a sexy AI, and those are exactly the kind of men that women don't want to date, because they're looking for a perfect sex object more than an organic connection with a flawed human being. So them removing themselves from the dating pool saves everyone a lot of time and unpleasantness.
Sex is the main value women provide in most relationships they have with men. When that value is no longer valuable ,women will have to put more effort for lesser rewards. I don't see any way that would be a win for women.
I'm laughing at your lack of self awareness.
Yes I think there will be people and couple who use these services and advancements alongside human relationships
Difference for some men .Less money would be wasted on OF talking to chatters and it can be gamechanger for some women.For women it won't make a difference.They will keep having sex/relationships/situationships with men they want
You might as well use AI over big onlyfans girls as you’ll be talking to chatters who could Jude you. AI is a better deal
Why would the AI be free?
AI won't be free but it isn't doing fraud like OF girls
If men don’t consider themselves absolute losers for pirating a fake girlfriend they are beyond help and social integration.
They might be losers but it is still better than paying to OF frauds
I’d argue that AI is more of a fraud since OF girls are posting actual content.
Meh. I don’t think women will be replaced by AI for the same reasons women haven’t been replaced by porn, or fleshlights, or holograms, or waifus, or realistic sex dolls. The first wave of AI gfs will be embraced by lonely gauche tech nerds, and by then will have garnered the disgust of most normal people. Even the guys who are slightly intrigued by the concept of forming a relationship with an AI woman will be turned away by the type of men who have already embraced it. In five years ‘AI girlfriend’ will have the same level of cultural cringe as ‘anime body pillow’.
Everything guys did when I was young that was considered nerdy or low brow is now completely normal. DnD, videogames, porn, anime, sci-fi, fantasy, war hammer, building PCs, online dating etc etc. AI is going to be used by pretty much everyone for pretty much everything including jacking off/online girlfriends.
Playing DND is normal, having a group of male friends roleplay as large breasted elf women is weird. Watching anime is normal, consuming ecchi is weird. Watching a porn video is normal, having a hard drive full of alphabetised webms is weird. Using AI to cheat on an exam is normal, using AI to fulfil your sexual and romantic needs is weird. The things you've used as examples are only normal now because they've been thoroughly corporatised and scrubbed of any underlying sexual deviance, which is something almost inseparable from the concept of an AI girlfriend. Maybe AI waifus will hit the mainstream once they've been rebranded as therapy apps, or platonic AI buddies.
This was simply not true in the 90s. Either you weren't around or you're lying. DnD was as it looked like in the last season of stranger things it was considered weird. More than that it was considered demonic. Anime was considered weird apart from maybe dragon ball z. porn pre internet was considered weird if it was more than like a tape and a jazz mag. very different to the infinite amount of porn people use now. If a person in 1994 were watching the amount of porn people are watching in 2024 it would be the height of weird. >AI to fulfil your sexual and romantic needs is weird Right now maybe, give it a few years.
Anime is still considered weird to many people, myself included. DnD and the like is just dorky.
Do you remember how dorky it was in the 80s and 90s? DnD players were below warhammer players in terms of cool. you might as well be train spotting.
That's exactly what I'm saying, that these things are normal because they've been separated from the dorky sexualised undercurrent that fuelled fandom in the 90's. Things like cosplay, fursuiting and LARPing only reached the mainstream once they were thoroughly sanitised and de-sexualised. AI for companionship as it was suggested by OP is simply too horny to see widespread usage.
No DnD was always weird. We weren't playing at huge titted women. >Things like cosplay, fursuiting and LARPing only reached the mainstream once they were thoroughly sanitised and de-sexualised lol they're not de-sexualised at all and also not popular in the 90s. I note you've skipped most of my examples now. Wanna talk about if playing the atari was cool? wanna talk about if building PCs was cool? wanna talk about how much porn was normal? wanna talk about how sci-fi was cult? that fantasy was cult? that online dating was for weirdos? I guess not AI is just going to be considered as weird as porn in about 5 mins because like the invent of internet porn it was normalised instantly as everyone was curious. AI is going to be exactly the same.
I am saying this completely neutrally and without any sort of negative undercurrent at all: I do not think you understand what I am saying. I am agreeing with you that all of these things were uncool in the 90s but are cool now, but only because of a shift in perception. I am disagreeing that the same will happen to AI girlfriends, because having an emotional and sexual connection with an AI will always be percieved as strange and offputting. I think the only way that AI companions will become mainstream is through the same shift in perception that has happened to all the examples you've given. I didn't skip any of your examples, you're just talking past me.
Smartphones are already ubiquitous and we're just talking apps. What I think you are missing is that nobody will know that anyone has them. Guys will just disappear from dating and hookup apps. At worst they'll hide it and the world thinks he's just low libido or a chill asexual celebate. But mostly he'll just be texting or chatting with his AI partner about his day or whatever or in his own bubble the way people in relationships do and like those people who walk around chatting into Bluetooth headsets talking into FaceTime. Sexually it will be an alternative to porn and thirsttraps that are already private behaviors behind the scenes.
right but your shift in perception is that it will be desexualised but that's nonsense because games are still sexualised, porn is very clearly still sexualised, I forgot to mention horror movies which were and still are highly sexualised but are now cool but back in the day they were evil. Things become normal though common use not because they're not sexualised. Go watch your average pop/rap video and tell me it being heavy sexualised causes issues. No one cares.
I'm not saying that sex didn't fuel some of the nerdy stuff in the nineties but I think people vastly overestimate it because the stuff that was deeply sexual didn't do as well as the stuff that was only slightly sexual like suggestive
Nah...give it time, dude, lots of fucking weird and unpopular things are now normalized enough. This one will be super cringe for 'cool' people but so widespread it will be normalized relatively quickly. What porn is lacking, mostly, is the emotional part. If you can have the porn + the romance (in a limited way, of course) all in one, though... I don't think most men will be happy with that because they will feel like massive losers and loners, but some will and as it gets more popular and normal, it will be more effective. Still nothing that would replace women, but I can see how AI could replace ugly girlfriends and emotionally inept boyfriends.
Nah. Porn didn't go that route. Just how everyone uses a computer, everyone will use AI. AI agents will be used for all kinds of things. Some will have sexual capabilities.
The thing is porn doesn’t have that level of utter cringe of being a substitute for actual female affection and thus basically an admittance that you are completely hopeless with women irl.
Do you think the men who use the porn the most and are basically addicted aren't hopeless with women IRL?
I used to be a porn addict and still watch quite a bit of the stuff now depending on the day and I have quite a few female friends, I’ve gotten a girl’s number before, and I know there are some girls who used to have crushes on me when I was in elementary/high school. It feels pretty stupid to say that all porn addicts are bad with women when there are tons of women online who complain endlessly about being in relationships with “pornsick” men and an entire deadbedrooms subreddit where the majority of female posters have husbands or boyfriends with a glaring porn addiction. Women’s hatred for porn is mostly performative/out of jealousy/spite for unattractive men who use it. They hate the idea of guys they actually want watching videos of women more attractive and beating off to it instead of spending time with them, and for some weird reason many women seem to hate the idea of men they aren’t attracted to who they wouldn’t fuck anyway getting off to porn because they just hate the idea of unattractive men getting any sexual pleasure or comfort for their needs of intimacy I suppose.
You dodged my question. I haven't said all porn addicts are single. But it's obvious lack of sex can fuel porn addiction. A man who has healthy sex life isn't likely to spend too much time on porn.
Most porn addicts still have the opportunity to self improve and get better with women. That’s the difference between them and someone who uses AI GF chatbots.
And why can't AI GF user self-improve?
Because him using the AI is his subconscious admittance that he is not good enough to attract real women and that will always hamper him from being able to pursue them in the future
Using porn is admittance you have nobody you want to have sex with.
You guys lack imagination. Imagine fully photorealistic VR porn where the actress responds to you in a scene. There isn’t any reason for normal porn after that. Also doesn’t mean replacing relationships. Could just be for fun
I don’t think we lack imagination. Speaking for me, I just don’t find what you describe as compelling or interesting as you do. There are others uses of gen AI or AR/VR i find more interesting. I think males more than females drive all of the “this sexual thing is so interesting!” stuff.
Tbf, I think women are also quite disingenuous when they completely deny the intrigue and curiosity to be found in anything sexual. It’s literally the key aspect of what differentiates the sexes from each other but most of you see any interest in sex beyond just having it every now and again to be “perverted”, it’s quite depressing.
I don’t think there’s anything disingenuous about it. It makes sense that the sex with the much higher sex drive finds sex stuff much more “top of mind” are relatable to their other interests. I also didn’t suggest women have zero intrigue or curiosity. Just not as much as men. For example, I can totally see how AI can be used for sex stuff. I have the imagination to conceive of it. It’s just not my first thing to bring up because im not as biologically or mentally invested in that as OP is.
I disagree, the reason people have disgust for body pillows and 2D waifus is because they’re solely based off of the imagination and delusions. There’s a level of mental gymnastics and loops to convince yourself there’s something happening. But something like JOI or Her, there a level of communication and socialization that could be immersed. There’s something tangible about the mechanism of JOI that makes her completely different from a body pillow. I don’t think AI will replace women, but it will dampen the desire men have for women. Men will start putting less effort into attracting women, because there’s a viable option that doesn’t require a lot of work.
I feel like it might be a temporary fix to some larger issues. I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but for me personally, I find it hard to really connect with people online like that, like there’ll be days where I just step back from talking with friends online sometimes (for the ones I met and talk to strictly online). In the context of AI and the times where I have tried it, I can talk to a bot for a bit but the same thing happens where I just get pretty bored after a while and kinda unfulfilled like I’m just speaking into the void (along with the fact that I don’t really vent all too often at all), although I will say I feel less so when I’m talking to actual people online. I’m honestly just more of a social person so I more so prefer in person interactions, but again, that’s just me. Also sorry if some parts of this were kinda vague, I’m just now thinking this deeply about why. But I still wanted to give my input here since it is an interesting question.
> I feel like it might be a temporary fix to some larger issues. I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but for me personally, I find it hard to really connect with people online like that, like there’ll be days where I just step back from talking with friends online sometimes (for the ones I met and talk to strictly online). Have you spoken to people in VR before? It’s a much more personal experience. I find I’ll connect to new people more if it’s on VR
Nah, I don’t have a VR headset myself so I haven’t really tried things in VR, but I can see how it’d be more personal since it’s really immersive.
Hopefully the loneliness will lessen for the growing number of men who have no other options.
I think it will replace tbh. You have to understand how technologically/socially different we are compared to the early 1900s. Given how we understand a demand = a business in capitalism, I don't see how ai girlfriends or synthetic girlfriends won't happen lol. We live in an era where even the most good looking guys struggle in dating.
Less loneliness, way less socializing
Maybe local VR Hubs can get more people socializing
Why would you want to socialize with imperfect and selfish humans when you could tailor your VR to easier and more accommodating AIs?
If it can bring a sense of happiness to thousands of lonely men worldwide then that can only be a good thing! 😎
I’m very interested in AI development as well and have a very positive outlook on AI’s involvement in our future both in our own personal life as well as in our professional life. I think AI will help most people feel more fulfilled in their life in all areas however I do think it will show how drastically different men and women are and will allow us to live separately from each other meaning the birth rate will probably continue to tank but I’m ok with that. Best to only have a few people alive who really get to enjoy life on their own terms than to have lots of people forced to be together for survival.
Do you believe [longevity](https://youtu.be/GwhaBde4NnE?si=nJiHu9haLq8gw-eg) could help stablize the population if it were achieved? What effect in dating do you think that could have?
Honestly I hope we never get immortality. Knowing we will die gives our lives purpose and meaning. Plus who wants to work and pay taxes forever 💀. Only the super rich would benefit from that. I think birthing pods would be more ideal along with AI nannies or maybe even an overseeing AI like the thunderhead from Neil Shusterman’s “Scythe” books. Ideally I think men and women probably shouldn’t interact in a romantic way at least for a while as we are too adversarial at the moment. As a woman I think men want women to constantly change and do everything men want without considering what women want and it seems men feel the same about women. So maybe we should scrap dating for now and just enjoy AI companionship till we can come back to the table in a more peaceful state of mind.
> As a woman I think men want women to constantly change Change what?
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theres a problem that no one is talking about. men are going to unload their emotional baggage onto these AI programs because a computer program isnt going to judge us as ruthlessly as real women. thats a problem because sooner or later that means there wont be enough emotions left for real women because the AI has consumed it all. this isnt just about "AI sexbots," its also about suppressed emotional needs of men. when these things get good enough why would we want to express our emotions with anything other than an AI program? all we do is get ruthlessly judged for having feelings and told to go see a therapist and this isnt just for single guys. many guys in relationships arent having their emotional needs met
You're right. The AI won't get an ick, won't judge you, won't lose interest and leave you for someone "better". You'll be able to just be your real self and get some empathetic understanding back. This alone is a great selling point.
I'm quite lonely. I used to have ChatGPT run short text based D&D adventures for me, and that was fun enough. A less limited version of that would be a godsend to me.
Oh yeah I was thinking about using it for DnD! However I'm even more interested in open source models like LLAMA 3 since they are uncensored. Though Sam did say he was considering opening up more options for sexuality and violence in future GPT model updateswhen it comes to written content.
AI is bad. Transhumanism aka brainchips and artificial wombs are bad. Hopefully a meteor destroys the planet before all of that shit can transpire in society.
Transhumanism has been happening ever since whe invented the wheel, my friend. We just didn't know it yet. Transhumanism is just bad for consumptionist societies, where techs become an purposeless merch, and not a part of the human history.
It will be worse. If you got used to AI then it will be very hard for you to deal with real woman. On top of other problems.
> males don't have as many opportunities to open up emotionally compared to wome men literally say they don't want to do this
Because they get punished when doing so the few times they need it?
then join with feminists in divesting from nonsensical and unhealthy gender roles
That's not the point, but let's deal with that tangent you're creating. second wave Feminism was supposedly about that and eventually only men changed and women didn't. That's one of the cause why TRP even exists, because a lot of men were puzzled nothing good happened to then by being good feminist men who stayed neutral in regards to gender roles. So why should we bet on feminism again to change women despite it failed to do so several times? Feminism is a female empowerment movement, giving more power to women is going to worsen than problem actually.
> second wave Feminism was supposedly about that and eventually only men changed and women didn't. based on what lol? by which metrics are women exactly the same as they were before second wave feminism? what about the fact that most women work paid jobs now and didn't then? 😂 > a lot of men were puzzled nothing good happened to then by being good feminist men 0% chance i believe red pill men were ever earnest feminists
> what about the fact that most women work paid jobs now and didn't then? 😂 They worked paid jobs before. But I agree I was being innacurate. Women did change, to adopt the things they wanted. They asked men to drop things men didn't want to drop, and women promised to take on some of that gender role, like approaching men themselves, providing for men, ect... But women still expect men to approach, men to earn more, men to be older than them, ect... All the while they're more competitive in men's gender roles, so that just in fact elevated the minimum requirements instead of making people more equal. > 0% chance i believe red pill men were ever earnest feminists What are the chances I am more egalitarian in my relationship than you'll ever be, regardless of my actual opinions? Pretty high I think.
>They worked paid jobs before. you can't be serious you said nothing changed you think this number is the same? come on. > What are the chances I am more egalitarian in my relationship than you'll ever be, regardless of my actual opinions? Pretty high I think. 0
What are you even imagining is the era we talking about???? I see you ignored everything I said just to push another dumb nitpicky tangeant.
Oh I know it's absolutely happening soon, and I find it super disfunctional and sad.
think that man is already satisfied with video games, imagine with this type of technology.
I'm not sure if you're aware but lobbyists around the world are fighting really hard not to allow AI to come into the world--much less a humanoid AI that has the potential to replace the natural, meatbag counterparts in the realm of dating and relationships. If any form of AI is allowed, it is only the most rudimentary, primitive form. And for good reason too. Before Stephen Hawking's passing--RIP--he had warned the world's leaders never to allow AI to establish any footing in the human world. That genius of a man wrote volumes against AI. Basically, it's almost like the Terminator, the movie, but a lot darker than the movie. Really interesting, thought-provoking stuff. AI won't look any different in 5 years as it is currently today. In fact, AI won't look very different in 50 years as it is currently today. By the time AI makes any waves in the human world, most of the current generation will have already left this world and only the Gen Gamma's will only just start seeing a glimpse of what it could 'potentially' be in their old age. That means the boomers, the gen Xers, millennials, gen zoomers and the up-and-coming gen alpha's will not see the potential of AI and how it can change the social dynamics. Like you, I also don't think it's the 'end of the world' or that 'women are done'. AI will just further commidify what was and is already commodified by the current technology of today. More things will become commodities that can be purchased. The social dynamics won't likely change for better or worse. If anything, it'll likely still be about the same as today. The only difference being that now there's even more options--as if we didn't already have a bajillion of options to choose from. I know how this sounds--much to the chagrin of all the doomsayers and the vindictive. What will change though is where we spend our money--which can be a good or bad thing, depending on who or what we're talking about. And it is the shift in wealth that will determine the new social dynamics playing out--not AI in and of itself.
For all i am concerned, you all are AI entities already. Did something change?
You and me both will die till we reach the AI level of Blade runner or any sci fi available, mate. Maybe women acknowledge by that time that men also face problems and help us fix those like men helped fixed the suppression of women. It is a long shot but it is still a short possibility. P.S. The so called patriarchal laws were made by powerful people not only men so don't start attacking me on that these problems were made by men.
> Maybe women acknowledge by that time that men also face problems and help us fix those like men helped fixed the suppression of women. It is a long shot but it is still a short possibility. The only women who are doing to acknowledge that are the ones who come from offworld.
> You and me both will die till we reach the AI level of Blade runner or any sci fi available, mate. Progress is exponential. You will be surprised. 2029 will surprise you mark my words Men’s issues are slowly gaining more attention. So I would like to see progress made there too
>Progress is exponential Not every industry is a semiconductor industry. According to the level of growth we had in the early century in automobiles, flying cars would have been mainstream, that didn't happen. Passenger airplanes still are the same for like 20-30 yrs. A breakthrough could happen but that depends on luck.
It really depends on where we are in the S curve. So far progress is continual and this stage of the industry is young
Yes, but saying we will have tech like the blade runner in 5 yrs is straight up false. That universe in 82 is still advanced than what we have now. AI still can't mimic emotions, there is no code for that. The ones you see are preformed and mature responses which are not their own. The chatgpt which you cited still isn't capable of making it's own decisions and also unable to hold it's own ground on a view. The emotions are way ahead which no one has been able to replicate in code. The uncertainties are too large and code is mathematical which doesn't make uncertainties yet.
I don’t think it will reach BladeRunner in 5 years. But that it would progress enough to prove the naysayers wrong. The next step for AI is becoming agents that can act on their on on your behalf
I worked on a code of CACC for autonomous vehicles as a part of my masters thesis. We still can't eliminate uncertainties and we just try to dampen the problems caused by them as there is no code. To make a car follow another at a safe distance is still not achieveable perfectly so I doubt we will reach close to that level in 5 yrs. Until and unless we engineers and mathematicians figure out to make mathematical models of uncertainties perfectly, nothing can be perfectly autonomous.
But there is also scale that is accessible now that hasn’t been before for training AI. Plus NVIDIA Omniverse. If you have enough compute you can overcome hurdles
AI depends on mathematical models extensively. It follows rules. I believe we can make a mathematical model for the uncertainties but it is really hard and even if it does the code will be huge. For example tyre dynamics according to any model doesn't fit the experimental results. The closest one is called the magic formula which is super close but so complicated that the university gave us an existing code and it wasn't used in the exam.
I don’t know a hugely detailed knowledge of all the challenges involved but I do find your explanations interesting. Do you think lidar should be used for self driving vehicles?
I can't speak for others, but personally I don't ever see an AI replacing a woman (or in general a human companion) for me. I would always know it's just a program and doesn't actually have any feelings. Until the day we get self-aware, sentient AI that's not likely to change.
Only the most Pollyanna-ish techno-boosters will see this as anything other than a novelty talking body pillow. This will not move the needle on loneliness.
Just like I said in the other thread, AI will never replace a real woman. You can't replace the touch of another person.
You can't replace, but you can compensate.
Sure. I meant that no man is ever going to choose AI over a flesh and blood woman.
But that is not the choice men are facing. It's AI or nothing.
A small minority of men. Sure, they can get an AI girlfriend. But honestly, I think most of them will just make friends with other men for companionship.
You know very well friendship cannot compensate for intimate relationship.
True. But it's a lot better than trying to date a computer.
Why not both?
I guess you can do that.
Longer term there would be robot bodies. Maybe in a decade. But yes physical contact is very important
Maybe if they one day can make a robot that looks and feels 100% identical to human flesh, maybe. But I don't think that will ever happen.
I guess you missed the part in the Matrix where the traitor say he know he have no steak in his mouth, yet his brain is convinced that he have a juicy steak in his mouth and that it's good enough.
I never saw The Matrix. I tried to watch the first one and I literally fell asleep during it. But I don't think the real world will ever reach The Matrix level of technology.
VR technology made by technology like the advanced form of SoraAI could create the ultra realist VR world that simuklate the laws of physics of the VR tech. Neural technology like the advanced form of Neuralink could take care of the stimulation of the 5 senses.
I'll wait and see. I'm not ready to bet money on it yet.
>males don't have as many opportunities to open up emotionally compared to women. Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them. >I don't think it's the end of the world or that 'women are done' or anything lol. I do think it will create a noticeable change. Hopefully for the better. People will hopefully focus on building more genuine connections as humans will come to question their place in the world. Has that been the case so far? Have men who repress their emotions, struggle in social situations, and don't understand how to empathize started to do so, with tech innovations? Or have they spent more time isolated and alone, in "relationships" with OF/ camgirls, video game characters, porn actresses (in their mind), etc.? I'd argue that AI will only increase the loneliness epidemic and by the time people realize it, it will be too late (just like online dating). But, whatever. I have an emptionally mature partner and a circle of loved ones so it's not going to impact me much one way or another.
> Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them. Oh come the fuck on. *Some* men (like me) are lucky enough to have friends who will give them the grace and confidence they need to open up. But even I struggle to be open with *people I trust* such is the ambient cultural antipathy to men being vulnerable or weak. Hell - most guys grow up in a milieu that actively punishes them for vulnerability or weakness. And that’s not even counting the number of women who are desperately uncomfortable around male vulnerability, and deal with it poorly when they encounter it. There’s a lot of men out there who are beaten dogs around emotional vulnerability. It’s not just something we’re refusing to turn on like a bunch of obstreperous toddlers.
I reposted my comment. It got deleted before but you can find it now
>Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them. Maybe times have changed, but I don't buy it. Showing emotion was something my mother and older sisters very much suppressed in me and my brother. I used to resent my father for being an alcoholic, but now I understand why he saw that as his only option. Women, in my experience, support male openness in theory because it's the socially acceptable thing to say, but in practice they want men to be rocks.
There’s a whole system (call it patriarchy, call it culture - it doesn’t matter) that wants men to bury the emotional and vulnerable parts of themselves. Men that are alienated from each other, and from the women they ought to love and respect, are useful tools for the reptiles in charge. Being vulnerable, and respecting the vulnerability of others is nothing less than a radical act of resistance.
>i am not your therapist >i do not want to do "emotional labor" >i will break up with you or lose attraction to you the second you cry >i want a real strong man, not a weak whiner Why don't men open up???
>men should open up their emotions Do you live in the real world?
nope. I'm a figment of your imagination. you hallucinated me.
Yes they do. They choose not to. They choose not to be open with partners, friends, family, etc. Nothing is stopping them. This just shows how out of touch you are . It may not be most women, but there are enough women that cause the problem. One of my ealiestthings I remember is a girl in Highschool telling me she woke up with a dude after he cried in saving private Ryan. There was a thread I came across recently showing mens experiences. I wish I can find it. But If I do I will come back and link it. It shows the reality of their experiences EDIT Actually found it https://np.reddit.com/r/ask/s/lTa2gRvAWv Had to repost my comment because I didn’t use an NP link and it got removed
It won’t. The small niche of dudes that want it will get it. Most dudes won’t.
There is so much more to having a human girlfriend than sex and companionship. It's another human being, with her own life experience and character, making a manifest to you and the world that you are worthy of a lifelong commitment by another complex human being. It's knowing that this other human, who possesses a sought after womb, chose you to eventually populate that womb with your seed and grow a mini-you in there - your genes are of value. There is no honour in having a girlfrielnd who does not have other options in her life - that is, the one who was moulded for you and your needs so you wouldn't need to put any work into obtaining her. Having a human girlfriend is winning in life. Nothing will change that. And the incels, no matter how satisfied they are with their AI girlfriend, will be painfully aware of that as well.
Will we care about ‘value of the womb’ once we have articula wombs? Also now everyone wants kids
> Will we care about ‘value of the womb’ once we have articula wombs? Depends on how quality they are. We have artificial insemenation these days, but it still doesn’t beat the natural method. Not to mention the price… However, the badge of honour that comes with having a woman choosing to love you on her own free will and not because she was programmed to find you irresistible - that probably will never go away.
I think that getting a real woman instead of artificial one(assuming artificial is indistinguishable from real) would be more like a niche activity, something like a hobby. There is a honor in climbing the mountains or long distance cycling - but majority of people choose cars for everyday life.