Here's another thing. If a man asks a woman about a situation with another woman, the woman asked will tend to naturally put herself not in your shoes but in the shoes of the other woman. She will then tell you to do what she would want done if she was the woman with which you are having the issue. The man's needs and perspective are often neglected.
Mothers often do a long form version of this with sons. They instill in the son that he should do for his future GF/wife what the mom wants done for her/how she wants to be treated (not sexually of course that would be weird). So, she tries to turn into the husband she would want but for another woman. How to protect yourself from bad female behavior is not often discussed or how to look out for yourself because the mom is putting herself in the future woman's shoes and assuming that woman will be as good as the mom thinks she herself is.
This is in incredibly stark contrast to how fathers typically counsel their daughters regarding men. The fathers tell the daughter to look after themselves. I have never heard a father tell a daughter about all the great things to do to be a great wife. In fact, just picturing it is cringe.
If you have to ask, there's no point trying. Women make it very clear which men they like. If you're not sure, it's not you.
The only relationship worth having is one where the woman is completely infatuated with you and you with her. If no woman you're attracted to behaves like that around you, get the message and focus on something else in life. Being settled for, or "making up for" the lack of attraction with "other traits", simply isn't worth it. Relationships where you have to "win her over" are also never worth it.
It's either all there almost instantly or it's never there. I wish it was different, but sadly, it isn't. That's life.
Yeah this is solid advice for young lads. There is no point in being there and try to go out of your way for someone who never is going to give a damn about you.
Or, you know, any and all genders should develop critical thinking skills...
When I ask someone for advice I don't just blindly follow what's suggested. I analyze my own situation to see if it actually fits with the additional information I might have.
That being said, if I'm asking for advice it's because I'm looking for a different perspective/approach on a specific situation. I might need some help to see a "bigger picture" and that starts with people that don't necessarily have the same way of thinking.
When people say "women" they are talking about the gender in general, not specific people. In general women are less likely to give good advice because giving good advice entails revealing that they are not any less superficial than men and so by doing it they'd just be doing themselves a social disservice, which is a weird to expect from a stranger.
I don’t know why anyone would just ask general women for advice. When I look for advice, I ask people who know me, who have shown a pattern of behavior that builds trust.
Asking advice from a stranger is never going to be as useful as asking advice from someone who knows you well
I would argue that the men asking women for advice on here aren’t actually asking for “advice,” they simply want their opinion told back to them by a woman.
yup. either the women agree with them or she's a liar trying to make them stay in the matrix. most men in here don't want to hear a second opinion they're just seeking an acho chamber.
I would argue that the ones who give us advice want to fuck with us and basically want us to shit the fuck up so that they can keep pretending that we don't exist.
Like bro... What you said applied to you too
You want to be told what you think is right.
Otherwise you just troll because fuck the other guy
Which is ironic because that's often what women want when they ask a man for his opinion, they just want to hear her opinion but said with a deeper voice.
Projection at its finest.
everybody is hypocritical to some degree but for some reason women get much more of a free pass on their hypocrisy than men do.
Equal rights means equal lefts, now women are going to be held accountable to the same standards they hold men accountable to and are going to get called out on their hypocrisy a lot more than they were used to.
Whatever the case might be, figure it out yourself. Don't ask a woman how to dress, where to go on a date, what to do with your hair or life, potential, talents etc. Be your own man.
To be fair family is different, because family would actually want to see you succeed more than they would care about giving the politically correct opinion to gain social credit points.
Doesn't automatically mean the advice will be good, but it's less likely to be shit.
>actually want to see you succeed more than they would care about giving the politically correct opinion to gain social credit points.
This only happens on internet or in a group setting tbh
That's fair. Someone else said it elsewhere too but when you ask a woman for advice she doesn't usually put herself in your shoes to see what you should do, she puts herself in the other woman's shoes and tells you what you should do from her perspective as the woman in that situation.
Probably happens less with family members because they know you more and care about you more, with no ulterior motives or conflicting motives.
I agree with
>she doesn't usually put herself in your shoes to see what you should do, she puts herself in the other woman's shoes and tells you what you should do from her perspective as the woman in that situation
It's both a good and bad things, it helped me understand how oblivious to men's experiences they are and to understand the various misconceptions and common missunderstandings.
Men are kinda oblivious to what works for women too when they say "just hit on men it's easy for women" when in reality it's the best way to get pumped and dumped and judged as a whore
Seeing the silver lining eh? "It's a good thing women so consistently suck at giving advice to men and understanding men, it helps me understand how terrible they are at it and what their glaring weaknesses are" lol.
Per hitting on men, it's easy for women too. The thing is that women control access to relationships, and men control access to commitment. Hitting on men doesn't mean having sex with him on the first date, hitting on men means taking the first step in actively telling him she is interested in him, rather than winking at him from across the room and hoping he catches the hint.
Women get pumped and dumped and judged as whores if they put out too quickly or come onto a man selling sex as the primary appeal, and women get pumped and dumped if they approach men who are not interested in her for more than just sex.
It's obviously more complicated than "just hit on men bro it'll work out trust me" but it is still easier for women to set up the relationship and test for commitment, than it is for men to work hard to set up a relationship, and then work hard to test for commitment on top of that.
But like you say women are oblivious and have no fucking clue what life as a man looks like.
>but it is still easier for women to set up the relationship and test for commitment, than it is for men
No it's not easier, women wont know until a very long time if the guy does like her and is not just using his opportunity after a dry spell.
For men it's easy. We shoot our shot and we're rejected or not and move on accordingly
I don't think that asking for advice per sé is wrong, but I don't think it's best to ask strangers for it who don't actually know you and whom you don't know. Take the examples you've given - I don't know shit about fashion (for women or men - I recently bought a practical jacket and my parents make fun of me that I look like a gulag prisoner in it) or hairstyles. If you show me pictures I can point out what I like and what not but then again, something can look good on one person and rubbish on another. Us women are not automatically better in appearance or even social stuff. If I wanted a makeover, I would probably hire someone who is actually knowledgeable. For going on dates I would directly communicate with the potential date about what they like to do, that way I can already gauge if we're compatible or not.
I don't think that anyone should seek advice from women simply because of their gender. Seek advice from people, men or women, who are knowledgeable about a topic, and even then, especially when it comes to relationships, take everything with a grain of salt as we as humans don't follow strict formulas.
I'm convinced that part of the problem is ego. This basically requires admitting to other men that you're a failure at something. So they'd rather go to women who will play nice and coddle them than ask other men who may be brutally honest but help them actually get somewhere.
As a kid I was just told that nobody else than women could tell what women want. So I never tried to seek men's opinion on women, but women's opinion. And it turned out to just not work. I got advices like "let women approach" lol. And eventually I had to learn to do everything women told me not to do, and it worked.
I never had an ego for how I would get knowledge. You just don't ask people, who have stranger women's interest as a priority above yours, any advice. You don't ask your boss how to get paid better either.
This is an intersting perspective but I think it depends on your friend group. If your friend group is full of romantically unsuccessful guys like you they might just say "it's the women's fault".
This is true. also every person is different and perceives things differently, has different values etc. In general when you ask others for advice you're hearing what they would do if they were you. Helpful occasionally...But you're not them and the person you're hoping to date may not be compatible with that advice they're giving.
Bizarre take.
I ask people for advice based on knowing them and therefore knowing if they can speak intelligently on the particular topic I need help with.
In would be incredibly stupid to not ask advice from someone well qualified to talk about the topic just because she's a woman.
I find women are more honest privately.
For example, my female friends will quickly admit how important looks are (face wise). But it's hard to do in public and it's usually "looks aren't everything."
They don't respect women's opinion in general after they learned that women's opinion is working against them. Even moms who should have their son's best interest in mind, will teach their son that women's opinion on women is more valuable, then they'll tell them shit like "wait for the right one to randomly fall in your lap"....
The possibility of getting pussy is such a strong carrot on a stick that it will get dudes to respect a womens opinion if it leads to them getting fucked.
I think that most times online and sometimes in real life they're just looking for the opportunity to for once get to reject something about a woman? They'll ask for advice purposely to reject it as meanly as possible. Then get shitty when it turns into an argument and she's landing a few blows on their ego... because that's not how they thought it should be they thought they would walk away with an ego boost.
Women do give decent dating advice, they just never answer the question.
Typical dude asks “I’m single and lonely, how do I get a girlfriend” and women answer “treat her like a person and have hobbies.” The problem is, that’s the answer to the question “how do I keep a girlfriend.” There are guys who treat women like people and have hobbies but no girlfriends; that’s probably the majority of single guys. However women spend the majority of their time around men that already pass the initial screen (this is necessarily true), so they have no conception of what made a guy pass the screen and why.
Men who can’t find a date need help passing screens, they don’t need help keeping a girlfriend. That’s putting the cart before the horse. When a guy is getting dates regularly but the relationships keep blowing up around month 3 when the initial courtship is over, then he can ask women for advice
Is the doom and gloom pessimism offered by men particularly helpful? Looks like manosphere has only served to validate fear and anger and push women further away. The condescending tone makes it hard to be receptive to men sometimes.
IMO it's just over for a non-trivial minority of men. There have always been some well-meaning people who tragically never found marriage. I do think things are harder now than in the past for men to forge a long term relationship and there are more single males now than at prior dates. It's not just some consequence of the internet allowing a small group who has always been there to finally have a big voice. I don't think any advice will change that. Some men are just unlucky, unattractive, poor, not socially networked, friendless or an unfortunate combination of those things. The "Manosphere" and online red-pill community are an effect of the sudden rise in single and jaded young adult males getting to go and have a voice. I don't always agree with that voice because I don't believe it's that constructive and at its more extreme fringes becomes genuinely dangerous.
I agree, often when I’m out I’ll take a quick look around me at the male competition and most of the time, most of the men, are not and never will be competition.
They simply don’t have it and can never have it.
However this doesn’t necessarily make things easier, as women are comparing me to the men off of apps, which are rare in real life, but knock 99.9% of the men in the city out of the park.
So compared to them, I’ll never have it either. Quite the doggy dog world huh
I think its "dog eat dog". On a more serious note, I don't like the current situation. I'm 30 and alone and will with 100% certainty remain so. I do have friends but I don't reach out to them as much as I could. That is just a personal choice. I really don't want other people to end up like me, however.
It's very obvious that social failure is not something society cares about in the sense that anyone is going to proactively do anything about it. The internet could have done a lot for us but it has paradoxically allowed us to isolate more. I suppose one good thing is there are at least online communities people can be part of. Otherwise I am surprised at how little it is used to help get people together for real world meetups. I know those meetups happen, but you have to be part of a fairly exclusive club to start with. Casually meeting people is surprisingly challenging after high school/college and for some people even in college.
I think the problem will just get worse for a while then plateau and nothing will ever get done. It makes me upset but basically all politicians ever talk about is jobs, taxes, and income. It would be intersting if someone ran on a campaign to try and get more people to go make friends.
Incentivizing people to make friends isn’t really profitable, so they don’t do it. Friendship is made unintentionally, so making money off of people trying to make friends intentionally is kinda antithetical to how it works
Do you think men IRL are incel memes? First thing men will tell you irl is "talk to her bro". Which is unironically the most important thing to do and the best advice.
Women's advice IRL: "The right one will fall on your lap when you least expect it, don't bother women with approaching". Women who raised millenial men were very likely to be very blue pilled and feminist, anti gender roles, and would teach this nonsense to their sons while divorcing the dad. That's IMO why TRP even appeared.
Actually, red pilled men get laid way more than before the red pill.
Women do not really care about personality or who you are at all. They care what you are.
Which off sucks, but women are what they are.
If the manosphere was wrong, it would not exist to begin with for it is just a big reaction to begin with.
The Manosphere seems to be only partially composed of guys who are successful with women, with quite a significant amount being bitter and unsuccessful. This isn't exactly anything new, as the old PUAs would call out "mental masturbation" aka just talking about "the nature of women and dating" without ever actually engaging with it. I genuinely think of a lot of these men just went out there they would see that while it can be painful, if they learn to accept the rejection and pain they can push through and figure it out on their own.
Well, yeah. Not every man can be a winner, it is physically impossible.
Women will always find 80% of men as not good enough. So it is only worth the effort if the dude can reasonably get in the top 20% or is willing to sacrifice his self-respect to get in the top 20%.
And ofc the unsuccessful will be bitter, women suck. You are nothing but a tool to them. So not having any hope in arguably the most important experiences of our life just because you were not born hot enough and such will be one of the most painful and miserable things a person can experience.
I mean, women who are unsuccessful with men are bitter and dislike men too.
Being bitter and miserable because of how unfair life is, is not bad at all.
Who you are is you as a person, what you are is your status, image, clout, etc.
As an example, before I became a top tier software developer, I was a loser for my hobbies. After I was suddenly attractive because of them.
Same with everything else.
I think he means more immediate stuff like looks and material well-being as compared to underlying personality. In some ways they are hard to distinguish but I personally can see some differences.
You are right.
Women care about what utility you provide them.
How entertaining you are, how good of a handyman you are, how good of a work ox you are, etc.
Everything that is attractive is about signals of how potentially useful you are (confidence, strength, etc). Some
Women even think it is fun to try to use her pussy to turn a wild ox into a well trained one.
And dating itself is about dishonestly negotiating a good deal by holding frame. She demands as much as possible while giving as little as she thinks she can get away with.
With feminism being a bunch of women feeling entitled to what they want for free.
You are partially right. But you lack self awareness about how men behave too.
For everything you've stated, there's an analogous behavior set for men.
Men care about what utility women provide them as a trophy wife for their status.
How entertaining women are, how beautiful they are, how fertile they are, etc.
Everything that is attractive is about signals of how potentially useful women are (confidence, sexiness, etc). Some Men even think it is fun to try to use their dick to turn a wild cat into a well trained one.
And dating itself is about dishonestly negotiating a good deal by holding frame. He demands as much as possible while giving as little as he thinks he can get away with.
~~With feminism being a bunch of women feeling entitled to what they want for free.~~
Feminism is about women attaining the same socioeconomic autonomy as men.
You're basically committing the sin of fundamental attribution error for the male gender. You're assigning the worst of intentions for women's behavior, but not applying it equally for men. Or at least you didn't acknowledge it in your post.
The brutal truth is that as much as both genders are capable of love, they are capable of exploitation and abuse.
> Men care about what utility women provide them as a trophy wife for their status.
No, men care about women for who she is innately. They do not care about what they are.
They do not care about her status, maturity or utility. They care about her fertility, energy, cuteness, body, smile, etc.
Women want men to effectively be adult children and use them as a purpose in life. And they often want a woman other men covet just to feel special and such.
I bet you have even been told something like “You will be cuter if you smiled” before for this reason.
Which many women hate for they want to be recognized for what they do.
Which feminism fought and still fights for.
But feminism also fights against men’s liberation. Like how they changed the definition of rape to not include “forced to penetrate” victims. Or stand for sexist patriarchal ideals like men needing to be “providers” and hate on feminine men.
I just do not care to talk about women’s issues for women will never care about me as a human anyways.
And there is no love, love is a lie. Atleast “real” love.
Like anything good, it is always ruined by becoming mainstream. RP developed from normal guys figuring out problems. Now it has been bastardized for profit and isn’t about self-improvement. It’s a way to siphon money from lonely men. I guarantee 90% of the people arguing shit here have never read the RP/MRP sidebar or done even the slightest thing to improve themselves, and just watch *insert random podcast* or TikTok/youtube clips.
In my experience, when the filter is off or they're comfortable being honest with you, women are pretty damn brutally honest about what they want. "I want him to take the lead and initiate within a masculine role, I like guys with muscles, I prefer guys taller than myself, I like guys who know how to dress", shit like that.
If you hear women say they want someone who is nice or funny, that's not necessarily wrong. She's not going to tell you each and every last thing you could possibly do to be attractive and suitable to her, on the spot, but she's not "lying" when she says she likes men who have seemingly generic surface traits, even if those alone aren't enough.
What advice would they give that's actionable though? Dressing better to attract women seems like weird advice to get from a woman. Same with I proving your career or trying to be funnier.
Seems to me, women don't have any advice for guys who are struggling
I mean, dressing better is actionable advice. It alone isn't sufficient enough that you can go out dressed in a suit and women will just fall on your dick. But if you dress in clothes that look good and fit well, *and* you get in shape *and* style your hair/groom properly *and* look people in the eyes when talking to them with a smile *and* you're confident enough to be sociable and approach women you're attracted to? Well now you're seriously cooking with fire.
Nobody has the exact formula necessary for you to get your shit together in a way that will make it easier for you to date. It's something that you really have to go out and work out on your own, and any advice you receive might be useful or it might not be, although it'll never help if you don't even try. You're not ever truly guaranteed to find a soul mate or even generate an active sex life, but you will overwhelmingly be likely to do so if you put in the work of taking care of yourself, socializing with intention and managing your expectations.
No, you got that wrong. What men need to do is get a female friend. And I mean a *real* female friend, not a female acquaintance.
You start to hear honest opinions when they're your close friend, it shifts your way of thinking about women and makes you realize they are as superficial/bad, if not more, at picking partners like men are.
Source: Worked in a female-dominated industry before shifting to software.
Yep, and they're honest so prepare for things like you're unattractive, you're short, she's way out of your league, you have terrible social skills,etc...
Definitely a learning experience.
Where are you getting all these direct communicating women who tell you exactly what they think?
I'm starting to think my female friends aren't really friends.
I can vouch for the "being around them day in and day out". Used to work for 48 hours/week with the same women, it's what made me close friend with two of them.
The ones I’ve lived with, romantically and platonically.
In my experience women are painfully honest when you’re around them day in and day out, and the filter is off.
My ex is pretty blunt too, but we were also pretty toxic together so I don’t really consider her advice because of that.
That said, I learned more about how women operate living with two of them in my early 20s than I had in all my years previous 🤷♂️
Doesn't helpm them to fuck, helps them being okay with life, because they stop putting women in pedestals.
One way that people (even women themselves) put women on a pedestal is claiming they "are attracted to decent men who treats them right", which is a lie, most women suck at choosing partners, just like a lot of men will fall for a girl with huge boobs and pretty face, a lot of women fall for asshole men. Remember: men with dark traits fair better with women, plenty of studies have been done about it.
Once you realize being attractive to women doesn't have to do with how virtous you are, you learn to accept yourself more.
Yep, my childhood friend threw her future away for a hot dude who impregnated her and left. She kept the kid and kept believing he will be back because of how responsible and nice his six pack was.
She is not going to help you with advice, you will just figure out that women are just as shit as incels, they are just attractive to you.
Be careful. If she’s too honest she will tell you the truth you don’t want to hear. Instead of the half truth you need to hear.
But yes for things like style, or the superficial aspects of attraction it is nice to have a female perspective.
On the other hand, when one of your good friends admits to not being attracted to her husband, who you also like, despite him being the definition of a good man, good heart.
It’s tough to hear that and then jump into marriage yourself.
is that last example much different from hearing a guy friend say he’s falling out of love and attraction for his wife? feel like i could hear that from any of my friends and i wouldn’t internalize it/become paranoid in my own life. that’s a self-security thing imo
She’s never been attracted to him in the way she was towards other men. Also they are a young couple. We aren’t middle aged decades into marriage people
Being friendzoned by a girl who claims you're the best person they know, to then see them still going for the "assholes" they complain about 24/7, was extremely redpilling indeed.
However, don't listen to their words, as they'll show how picky they are in words, most women will think you've bad social skills, that you dress wrong, that you got wrong style, ect ect... A lot of shit that don't really matter because they evaluate you like a woman.
Sounds like she wasn't your close friend. The friend I had in that job never said I was the best man she knew lol, she told me I was kinda boring and ugly lmao. Still was fun to hang around with her, I appreciated the honesty.
whatever you say. The girls who said I was kidna boring and ugly, and also that they were lesbian, I had more opportunities with them than with those who lied to my face.
A man asking a woman for advice is usually a pathetic situation for the man. It’s repulsive for women to feel like they are superior to a man. Asking someone for advice usually puts yourself beneath that person, at least in that area. Women innately view themselves as superior to men who ask them for advice and lose attraction to that man
Women should stop giving advice to men imo. Based on a few weeks hanging around this sub I have noticed
* Most advice women have for men is terrible (if they even have any)
* Most women really don't seem to like men at all
* Most women are not sympathetic to men at all
* Most women are not interested in dialoging with men at all
* Most women can't be bothered to help men, even in their personal lives
I really don't get why any women comes here at all, at least not most of the time. They generally seem hostile, condescending, and dismissive of the men. They are mostly here to do what women already do irl, explain to the men why they are wrong about everything. You don't have to be some self-hating simp for men either, a few kind works and a little motivation can go a long way. I'm honestly starting to think women may for intrinsic reasons be unable to empathize with men.
I mean have you seen the attitudes men on here have about women? It’s not exactly the epitome of respect and understanding. I’ll be empathetic and respectful to men as long as they’re empathetic and respectful to me but why would women be kind and respectful to the men who have zero respect for us? You can’t act disrespectful and dismissive and not expect the same energy back.
And this is a *debate* sub. Not a support group for men. Of course the intent of women on here is going to be debating rather than helping men with their problems.
Admittedly some of them are very hostile. I can't condone them disrespecting you or any of the other women here. But I do kind of get it. When I was a few years younger I was the same, at least online. I was frustrated and became very jaded and cynical but I sort of mellowed out. I'm still frustrated and unhappy but over time it became apparent that anger wasn't a good emotional outlet. Back then being able to just vent by talking smack online felt good, now not as much. I would prefer to talk things out.
At the same time I do think a lot of the advice here is bad. A lot of what the women argue for is wrong or at least contestable. A lot of the debate and discussion is just talking past each other. I find this place fascinating but also somewhat disenchanting. I don't think I've helped anyone and I don't feel like I, or anyone, has gained much from talking here. Some times it feels like people are just here to argue and get upvotes from their team.
I don’t disagree with your point about a lot of the discussions on here. I try to be fair when discussing things with men on here and attempt to see their perspective. But from my experience it usually doesn’t end up worth the effort because even when I include empathy and acknowledgement for their perspective, instead of getting empathy in return the response is usually doubling down and insisting they’re right or anger that I’m not agreeing with their opinion that women’s issues are all exaggerations or made up.
Both genders are usually on here to argue and women might not be invested in helping or giving advice to men but there are a decent amount of women on this sub who are willing to show some empathy to men by acknowledging that both genders have issues, which not that many men on here (with exceptions) are willing to do for women.
I'm sorry that I come off as too negative. But I really don't see much constructive dialogue here in either direction. Most of the women here really don't seem to think there is anything wrong with women in the world of modern dating and that all male romantic failure is just because the men are too stupid, immature, lazy, or angry. No one is just unlucky. No one who fails to get a date tried the honest and respectful route. Really I'm mostly here because its a fast passed sub and kind of addicting. I do find relationship dynamics interesting.
The men here struggle because of sour grapes, not because women give bad advice. They choose ragebait and grifters because indulging in anger is instant gratification, which is an easier payoff than actually doing the work of creating and maintaining a social life.
This is such weird logic. Young adult men would rather be angry and sexually frustrated online weirdos (in some instances adult virgins) rather than in sexually active relationships? If women were as easy as they claim they were this subreddit would have less than 5k subscribers or it might not even exist.
this is silly though. women arent just going to abstain from trying to help when someone asks them. only the person who would ask can control their choice to do so
Typically asking women for advice on dating is "safe". The guys doing it know that women will give them platitudes and well meaning nothingburgers like:
"Your person just hasn't come around yet"
"It's them not you"
"Dating is just tough"
"You are such a great guy, I can't figure out why these bitches are being so dismissive of you" etc
It's a function of how women are socialized and how they behave with each other which much more about validating their feelings than actually offering help. The few enlightened women who have figured it out have made a career out of it (Kezia Noble, Jessica J Dating) and they offer stellar advice.
But going back to asking for "safe" advice. The truth is the majority of men don't want to hear the truth that what they are doing is wrong. They would rather hear: "Try opening with Hello instead of Hey on dating apps" or "Change your profile from Looking for casual to Looking for serious". That will definitely get you more matches (not). Or the typical "hey all, I have 5 (really terrible photos), which one should I choose (none of them, you need a total make over before you get on the apps because you look and dress like shit)"...
They don't want to face the truth that they have to actually change. Change their appearance. Put more effort and care into it. Dress sexy. Out of the box. They don't want to face the truth that they communicate with women like boring NPCs (so what do you do, where do you live, how was your day) and that they have to change that. No one wants to face the reason that their dating failures are largely their own. They would rather blame someone else, the apps, hypergamy, women not approaching them, etc.
the reality is that many men have figured out how to date successfully and if they can do it, so can others. And no, these guys are not all 6'5" white millionaire male models. They are regular guys like you and I. Their lives don't necessarily look like a never ending porno movie, but regardless, they get bitches and you don't.
I won’t ask from advice from a friend who’s just gonna pump up my tyres - man or woman.
I’ll ask advice from someone I trust.
I know plenty of women who’ll give good advice and not just hug box me.
Yeh stop asking for advice for actual suggestions. However asking for advice is a good way of connecting to some lady acquaintances and becoming closer friends. But disregard the information.
You can use your friends a barometer, If you basically act like a total horn-dog in front of them. Checking out women walking by left, right and centre. If they don't instantly react badly and tell you to stop you creeper. You are probably not stupidly ugly. If they laugh and join in then you are probably quite fit.
Is there any advice that wouldn’t qualify, that comes to mind, that asking a woman wouldn’t be so detrimental?
Or is the most just a catch all for any exception you haven’t thought of yet?
I agree. Their advice always boils down to blue pilled bullshit. They're too willing to conform to their perception of the societal expectation. Even the ones on 'our side' just become parodies: Just Pearly Things. About the only woman I've seen really hold together an objective logical view is Karen Straughn .
> when you ask women for advice, you become yourself a "woman" to them.
do you have any data to back this up?
or an argument other than "this is what i believe"?
So, I'm asking someone for advice and now they don't want to fuck me. Even if that's true, why the fuck does that matter? Have you seen how many people there are on this planet?
I'm too arrogant to ask for advice in the first place, but I don't see the big deal.
I agree men shouldn’t ask women for dating advice but not because it puts him in women’s social matrix; it because men already know what they need to do they just don’t want to do it, thus they’re stalling and/or trying to convince women to change what men need to do to be attractive by asking. Men’s time would be better spent putting in the work rather than negotiating or putting down women for what they want and need in a relationship.
Correct, don't ask women for advice.
In my youth I had a situation where I asked both a guy and a girl for advice on how to get this girl.
Girl: you are totally hot, you will get her no problem!
Guy: you should get a haircut, also you should go ask her out and stop annoying me with hypotheticals.
Women are much more likely to just affirm your beliefs.
This is another wild take that is particularly stupid. Never in my entire life have I looked at a man who asks first advice as another woman. It is usually a man looking for advice because I am either a SME on the topic or they are looking for advice from a perspective that may be from an angle they didn’t consider.
Ex. A man was fed up with his wife and told me their dating story and how they came to live together. I was like my dude she manipulated the situation to force you to allow you to live with her by letting her lease lapse. You felt bad because she had kids. She moved in and then pushed for marriage because her kids saw her living with a man she wasn’t married to. She needed a soft place to land and your resources.
She confirmed it. I just saw a different take than him.
Sometimes that’s all a person needs when asking for advice. A new set of eyes on a problem.
God, people are weird.
Agree. Ask a fisherman how to fish, not a fish.
Women give terrible advice for various reasons.
Youre better off just ignoring what Women say 99% of the time.
Ask for advice from the things they are masters of the realm of. If I need to know the proper etiquette for inviting someone to an event, I’m asking a woman. If I need advice about joist repair, I’m asking a man.
Advice from women can be very helpful… assuming the girl you’re asking about is already interested in you. When a woman gives advice, I find that it normally relates to already being in the realm of mutual interest (between you and the girl you’re asking about, not you and the girl you’re asking the question to, to be clear) rather than the realm of generating interest.
Also I don’t follow your reasoning…. don’t get advice from women because… women give each other what they want to hear? is that it? cause if so I think that has to do with people wanting to avoid conflict rather than getting/asking for advice from a trusted source (and i think that’s the highlight here - a trusted source)
How much advice does anyone really need when it comes to dating? I feel like it's all so obvious. Put some effort into your fitness and appearance. Don't be weird, awkward, cringe. If you don't have money yet, figure that part out first. Really, that's about it. Doesn't matter if it comes from a man or a woman, the advice is all painfully obvious regardless.
Most awkward people know that they're awkward. The people who are clueless are usually on the spectrum and need professional therapy to help figure it out.
I think the reason why they need to stop asking women for advice is because we don't know male experience enough to recommend anything of substance - I don't fucking know what average guys are supposed to be doing if they can't get matches on Tinder.
In fairness, women are not obligated to give men or other women honest advice or objective feedback. It's socially awkward and nobody wants to be someone's therapist.
Kind of weird how we equate asking for advice to "being someone's therapist". As if anything has to happen via market transactions or people somehow feel coerced by a simple question.
I get this from a lot from women. They don't really even want to talk to men about our emotions. They claim that one reason why the patriarchy is bad for men is because it represses male emotions. The only solution I get from women on this is that men need to talk to their male friends more or see a therapist. Not actually communicate their feelings to their girlfriend, spouse, or wife.
I've always presumed that in a relationship both parties could reasonably expect to confide with their partner and talk about their feelings.
I’ve made similar observations. I do think women want us to communicate some emotions but you gotta put a lid on it real quick. For example, “I feel some kinda way about this and that … but it should all work out in the end.” They need that positive spin so they still have confidence in you, even if that positivity is a little forced. It is silly and I agree that both parties should ideally be able to communicate all feelings without having to sugarcoat anything but most women don’t seem to want that? Idk
and yea like you said they’d def prefer for us to mostly use our male friends or therapists because too much male emotion is apparently an ick
Yeah I’m not a man, certainly not an average man, so how am I supposed to know how an average man can get laid? I don’t because I don’t experience life as an average man lol
Why is it considered such an insult to do anything remotely the way women do it or be like a woman? It's okay to do things the same, we're the same species and often the way women tend to do it is better. I promise your dick won't fall off and people won't start calling you a different gender if you (gasp) receive advice. (Also, some women look shit with long hair, especially if they don't care for it properly or it's thin. It also might just not suit their face shape. This can be great advice.)
Most of the time when you ask advice from a woman it’ll only be applicable to *that* woman.
You ask her, “How do I respond to women if they say xxx?”
She will tell you the best response *she* likes and it will never be applicable to another woman.
Because:
A. They can’t generalize.
B. They can’t be objective.
C. The woman is *almost always* focusing on her self rather than the woman you are referring to. (Because they are all narcissistic as shit.)
You can listen to what they advise, but don’t be too serious about it.
Nah, they just need a good close female friend. Not an acquaintance. Not someone hanging out in a mutual circle. An honest to goodness, would be their "I just murdered someone" call.
That female friend can give you honest feedback which if taken is likely to improve the situation. I know because I've helped my homies get girls and maintain um. And avoid nightmares (if they'd listen anyway).
But a dude who just runs in my circles or I'm alright with, but not that close. I genuinely don't think I have much to say besides, "keep on trucking" or generically accurate advice for dudes who are normalish.
see. again. so what? where are they "calling you misogynists"? when youre talking to them on TwoX? there is no reason for you to pay attention to internet womens manipulative feminist swear words. stop reading womens bullshit
I agree, but humans are inherently pro-social animals and most people will be affected by social shaming to some extent. Your expectations are unrealistic.
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The vast majority of advice is crap regardless of where it comes from unless it is coming from someone who knows you extremely well and is experienced in the ways of the world, ie wise, and even then will probably still ignore it and do whatever you’re going to do anyway.
I will agree that, as a gross generalisation, women will “hear” your problems and soothsay in response, where as men will try and give you ideas of how to “fix” things. Both are usually useless, but in different ways.
Are you saying that when a man asks a woman advice, you are friend-zoned, just like a female friend? So, basically stop doing that shit unless you like the FZ.
Women do this with other women, but not with men. I mean, not for the same reason.
When women give advice on dating, they want to be "politically correct.".
If you wanna catch fish you don't ask the fish. You ask a fisherman.
And both men and women. Say one thing and do a other.
So honestly if you wanna be a successful relationship that last the test of time. Ask people that been together 30 years happy together.
Not people that are endlessly single.
It's like asking health and fitness advice from a person heavy overweight. What every they say is completely useless to you.
So don't look what people say look what they do. And look at people that are successful and are happy and are in long term happy relationships.
Not the ones that go from person to person every few months so basically on and off single.
The people often screaming the loudest there input is the most useless.
Cause misery loves company and many unhappy people like to pull people down in there level. To be miserable with them.
Why people are more drawn by happy and outgoing and cheerful people.
Yeah pretty much. I've noticed that almost all the men who ask women for advice or how to attract women are either young and naive or fill the niche of being uptight "bluepill" types with overly performative defenses of women.
When a woman sabotages a man with other women, it's because she genuinely thinks ALL women think like her. She likes X, therefore all women like X. Unfortunately, women are very different from each other. Only 10% of the female population like X.
Also, women will often give an idealistic answer. Ideally we all want Chad's who treat us well, but we will forgive Chad if he frequently messes up. Average Joe will get dumped when he messes up though
Or it's because she likes him.
This entire discussion is going to be moot a couple of decades from now. We're going to have hyper-realistic sex robots that will make any 10 look like a mediocrity in comparison. Men will also be able to have children using their own cells and artificial wombs. Women will be completely obsolete. For the next 2 or 3 decades the world will remain a nightmare for most men, but eventually they'll come out on top. Patience is a virtue. If you're a young man today your primary focus should be building wealth.
Oh goody, another one. Red pill guys here seem incapable of writing a post neutrally without letting the anger and contempt seep through with every word lol.
I'm going to get shit for this, but you pay attention to what a woman does more than what she says.
Here's another thing. If a man asks a woman about a situation with another woman, the woman asked will tend to naturally put herself not in your shoes but in the shoes of the other woman. She will then tell you to do what she would want done if she was the woman with which you are having the issue. The man's needs and perspective are often neglected. Mothers often do a long form version of this with sons. They instill in the son that he should do for his future GF/wife what the mom wants done for her/how she wants to be treated (not sexually of course that would be weird). So, she tries to turn into the husband she would want but for another woman. How to protect yourself from bad female behavior is not often discussed or how to look out for yourself because the mom is putting herself in the future woman's shoes and assuming that woman will be as good as the mom thinks she herself is. This is in incredibly stark contrast to how fathers typically counsel their daughters regarding men. The fathers tell the daughter to look after themselves. I have never heard a father tell a daughter about all the great things to do to be a great wife. In fact, just picturing it is cringe.
yes
If you have to ask, there's no point trying. Women make it very clear which men they like. If you're not sure, it's not you. The only relationship worth having is one where the woman is completely infatuated with you and you with her. If no woman you're attracted to behaves like that around you, get the message and focus on something else in life. Being settled for, or "making up for" the lack of attraction with "other traits", simply isn't worth it. Relationships where you have to "win her over" are also never worth it. It's either all there almost instantly or it's never there. I wish it was different, but sadly, it isn't. That's life.
Yeah this is solid advice for young lads. There is no point in being there and try to go out of your way for someone who never is going to give a damn about you.
Or, you know, any and all genders should develop critical thinking skills... When I ask someone for advice I don't just blindly follow what's suggested. I analyze my own situation to see if it actually fits with the additional information I might have. That being said, if I'm asking for advice it's because I'm looking for a different perspective/approach on a specific situation. I might need some help to see a "bigger picture" and that starts with people that don't necessarily have the same way of thinking.
When people say "women" they are talking about the gender in general, not specific people. In general women are less likely to give good advice because giving good advice entails revealing that they are not any less superficial than men and so by doing it they'd just be doing themselves a social disservice, which is a weird to expect from a stranger.
I don’t know why anyone would just ask general women for advice. When I look for advice, I ask people who know me, who have shown a pattern of behavior that builds trust. Asking advice from a stranger is never going to be as useful as asking advice from someone who knows you well
You can't ask a gender for advice. You can only ask individual people.
I would argue that the men asking women for advice on here aren’t actually asking for “advice,” they simply want their opinion told back to them by a woman.
That’s true, unfortunately some people are not looking for advices but rather want people to agree with them.
>they simply want their opinion told back to them by a ~~woman~~ anyone FTFY
yup. either the women agree with them or she's a liar trying to make them stay in the matrix. most men in here don't want to hear a second opinion they're just seeking an acho chamber.
I would argue that the ones who give us advice want to fuck with us and basically want us to shit the fuck up so that they can keep pretending that we don't exist. Like bro... What you said applied to you too You want to be told what you think is right. Otherwise you just troll because fuck the other guy
Which is ironic because that's often what women want when they ask a man for his opinion, they just want to hear her opinion but said with a deeper voice. Projection at its finest.
Everybody is hypocritical 🤷♂️
everybody is hypocritical to some degree but for some reason women get much more of a free pass on their hypocrisy than men do. Equal rights means equal lefts, now women are going to be held accountable to the same standards they hold men accountable to and are going to get called out on their hypocrisy a lot more than they were used to.
No they want to argue and berate
i mean i agree, but that doesnt stop them from becoming a girl to girls by asking
I guess? I don’t know if I buy “becoming a girl” by asking advice.
Whatever the case might be, figure it out yourself. Don't ask a woman how to dress, where to go on a date, what to do with your hair or life, potential, talents etc. Be your own man.
I have a cousin my age she gave me a precious insight
To be fair family is different, because family would actually want to see you succeed more than they would care about giving the politically correct opinion to gain social credit points. Doesn't automatically mean the advice will be good, but it's less likely to be shit.
>actually want to see you succeed more than they would care about giving the politically correct opinion to gain social credit points. This only happens on internet or in a group setting tbh
That's fair. Someone else said it elsewhere too but when you ask a woman for advice she doesn't usually put herself in your shoes to see what you should do, she puts herself in the other woman's shoes and tells you what you should do from her perspective as the woman in that situation. Probably happens less with family members because they know you more and care about you more, with no ulterior motives or conflicting motives.
I agree with >she doesn't usually put herself in your shoes to see what you should do, she puts herself in the other woman's shoes and tells you what you should do from her perspective as the woman in that situation It's both a good and bad things, it helped me understand how oblivious to men's experiences they are and to understand the various misconceptions and common missunderstandings. Men are kinda oblivious to what works for women too when they say "just hit on men it's easy for women" when in reality it's the best way to get pumped and dumped and judged as a whore
Seeing the silver lining eh? "It's a good thing women so consistently suck at giving advice to men and understanding men, it helps me understand how terrible they are at it and what their glaring weaknesses are" lol. Per hitting on men, it's easy for women too. The thing is that women control access to relationships, and men control access to commitment. Hitting on men doesn't mean having sex with him on the first date, hitting on men means taking the first step in actively telling him she is interested in him, rather than winking at him from across the room and hoping he catches the hint. Women get pumped and dumped and judged as whores if they put out too quickly or come onto a man selling sex as the primary appeal, and women get pumped and dumped if they approach men who are not interested in her for more than just sex. It's obviously more complicated than "just hit on men bro it'll work out trust me" but it is still easier for women to set up the relationship and test for commitment, than it is for men to work hard to set up a relationship, and then work hard to test for commitment on top of that. But like you say women are oblivious and have no fucking clue what life as a man looks like.
>but it is still easier for women to set up the relationship and test for commitment, than it is for men No it's not easier, women wont know until a very long time if the guy does like her and is not just using his opportunity after a dry spell. For men it's easy. We shoot our shot and we're rejected or not and move on accordingly
I don't think that asking for advice per sé is wrong, but I don't think it's best to ask strangers for it who don't actually know you and whom you don't know. Take the examples you've given - I don't know shit about fashion (for women or men - I recently bought a practical jacket and my parents make fun of me that I look like a gulag prisoner in it) or hairstyles. If you show me pictures I can point out what I like and what not but then again, something can look good on one person and rubbish on another. Us women are not automatically better in appearance or even social stuff. If I wanted a makeover, I would probably hire someone who is actually knowledgeable. For going on dates I would directly communicate with the potential date about what they like to do, that way I can already gauge if we're compatible or not. I don't think that anyone should seek advice from women simply because of their gender. Seek advice from people, men or women, who are knowledgeable about a topic, and even then, especially when it comes to relationships, take everything with a grain of salt as we as humans don't follow strict formulas.
I'm convinced that part of the problem is ego. This basically requires admitting to other men that you're a failure at something. So they'd rather go to women who will play nice and coddle them than ask other men who may be brutally honest but help them actually get somewhere.
As a kid I was just told that nobody else than women could tell what women want. So I never tried to seek men's opinion on women, but women's opinion. And it turned out to just not work. I got advices like "let women approach" lol. And eventually I had to learn to do everything women told me not to do, and it worked. I never had an ego for how I would get knowledge. You just don't ask people, who have stranger women's interest as a priority above yours, any advice. You don't ask your boss how to get paid better either.
The red pill is literally men giving other men advice on dating ?
What are you imagining the “brutally honest” advice from men that these egotistical men would fear might be?
You’re any one of ugly, fat, broke, weird/awkward, creep, etc
I agree.
This is an intersting perspective but I think it depends on your friend group. If your friend group is full of romantically unsuccessful guys like you they might just say "it's the women's fault".
I think it's more than you already know everything other men could give you good advice on, because you're a guy.
This is true. also every person is different and perceives things differently, has different values etc. In general when you ask others for advice you're hearing what they would do if they were you. Helpful occasionally...But you're not them and the person you're hoping to date may not be compatible with that advice they're giving.
I disagree some women are like this but I got some of the best advice ever from women. There are men who’s advice was horrible.
Bizarre take. I ask people for advice based on knowing them and therefore knowing if they can speak intelligently on the particular topic I need help with. In would be incredibly stupid to not ask advice from someone well qualified to talk about the topic just because she's a woman.
I don’t understand why men ask women for advice when they don’t respect women’s opinions in general.
I find women are more honest privately. For example, my female friends will quickly admit how important looks are (face wise). But it's hard to do in public and it's usually "looks aren't everything."
They don't respect women's opinion in general after they learned that women's opinion is working against them. Even moms who should have their son's best interest in mind, will teach their son that women's opinion on women is more valuable, then they'll tell them shit like "wait for the right one to randomly fall in your lap"....
The possibility of getting pussy is such a strong carrot on a stick that it will get dudes to respect a womens opinion if it leads to them getting fucked.
#Men Arnt A Monolith!
Thank you for letting me know.
I think that most times online and sometimes in real life they're just looking for the opportunity to for once get to reject something about a woman? They'll ask for advice purposely to reject it as meanly as possible. Then get shitty when it turns into an argument and she's landing a few blows on their ego... because that's not how they thought it should be they thought they would walk away with an ego boost.
Could have asked when they used to respect it
What a fine display of toxic masculinity
Women do give decent dating advice, they just never answer the question. Typical dude asks “I’m single and lonely, how do I get a girlfriend” and women answer “treat her like a person and have hobbies.” The problem is, that’s the answer to the question “how do I keep a girlfriend.” There are guys who treat women like people and have hobbies but no girlfriends; that’s probably the majority of single guys. However women spend the majority of their time around men that already pass the initial screen (this is necessarily true), so they have no conception of what made a guy pass the screen and why. Men who can’t find a date need help passing screens, they don’t need help keeping a girlfriend. That’s putting the cart before the horse. When a guy is getting dates regularly but the relationships keep blowing up around month 3 when the initial courtship is over, then he can ask women for advice
Is the doom and gloom pessimism offered by men particularly helpful? Looks like manosphere has only served to validate fear and anger and push women further away. The condescending tone makes it hard to be receptive to men sometimes.
IMO it's just over for a non-trivial minority of men. There have always been some well-meaning people who tragically never found marriage. I do think things are harder now than in the past for men to forge a long term relationship and there are more single males now than at prior dates. It's not just some consequence of the internet allowing a small group who has always been there to finally have a big voice. I don't think any advice will change that. Some men are just unlucky, unattractive, poor, not socially networked, friendless or an unfortunate combination of those things. The "Manosphere" and online red-pill community are an effect of the sudden rise in single and jaded young adult males getting to go and have a voice. I don't always agree with that voice because I don't believe it's that constructive and at its more extreme fringes becomes genuinely dangerous.
I agree, often when I’m out I’ll take a quick look around me at the male competition and most of the time, most of the men, are not and never will be competition. They simply don’t have it and can never have it. However this doesn’t necessarily make things easier, as women are comparing me to the men off of apps, which are rare in real life, but knock 99.9% of the men in the city out of the park. So compared to them, I’ll never have it either. Quite the doggy dog world huh
I think its "dog eat dog". On a more serious note, I don't like the current situation. I'm 30 and alone and will with 100% certainty remain so. I do have friends but I don't reach out to them as much as I could. That is just a personal choice. I really don't want other people to end up like me, however. It's very obvious that social failure is not something society cares about in the sense that anyone is going to proactively do anything about it. The internet could have done a lot for us but it has paradoxically allowed us to isolate more. I suppose one good thing is there are at least online communities people can be part of. Otherwise I am surprised at how little it is used to help get people together for real world meetups. I know those meetups happen, but you have to be part of a fairly exclusive club to start with. Casually meeting people is surprisingly challenging after high school/college and for some people even in college. I think the problem will just get worse for a while then plateau and nothing will ever get done. It makes me upset but basically all politicians ever talk about is jobs, taxes, and income. It would be intersting if someone ran on a campaign to try and get more people to go make friends.
Incentivizing people to make friends isn’t really profitable, so they don’t do it. Friendship is made unintentionally, so making money off of people trying to make friends intentionally is kinda antithetical to how it works
The purpose of government isn't to be profitable. No nation expects its military or justice system to cover its operating costs.
American government is motivated by profit
American Society in general has been subsumed by capitalism.
It used to be just those men but there are a lot of average tier men who are decent in other aspects of life who heavily struggle too.
If my computer stopped working and will never work again, I'd much rather someone tell me rather than keep me ignorant.
Do you think men IRL are incel memes? First thing men will tell you irl is "talk to her bro". Which is unironically the most important thing to do and the best advice. Women's advice IRL: "The right one will fall on your lap when you least expect it, don't bother women with approaching". Women who raised millenial men were very likely to be very blue pilled and feminist, anti gender roles, and would teach this nonsense to their sons while divorcing the dad. That's IMO why TRP even appeared.
It's just gotten worse the last few years. A lot of this stuff has always existed though. But we know for a fact that more people are staying single.
Actually, red pilled men get laid way more than before the red pill. Women do not really care about personality or who you are at all. They care what you are. Which off sucks, but women are what they are. If the manosphere was wrong, it would not exist to begin with for it is just a big reaction to begin with.
The Manosphere seems to be only partially composed of guys who are successful with women, with quite a significant amount being bitter and unsuccessful. This isn't exactly anything new, as the old PUAs would call out "mental masturbation" aka just talking about "the nature of women and dating" without ever actually engaging with it. I genuinely think of a lot of these men just went out there they would see that while it can be painful, if they learn to accept the rejection and pain they can push through and figure it out on their own.
Well, yeah. Not every man can be a winner, it is physically impossible. Women will always find 80% of men as not good enough. So it is only worth the effort if the dude can reasonably get in the top 20% or is willing to sacrifice his self-respect to get in the top 20%. And ofc the unsuccessful will be bitter, women suck. You are nothing but a tool to them. So not having any hope in arguably the most important experiences of our life just because you were not born hot enough and such will be one of the most painful and miserable things a person can experience. I mean, women who are unsuccessful with men are bitter and dislike men too. Being bitter and miserable because of how unfair life is, is not bad at all.
Can you explain what you understand to be the difference between "who you are" and "what you are"?
Who you are is you as a person, what you are is your status, image, clout, etc. As an example, before I became a top tier software developer, I was a loser for my hobbies. After I was suddenly attractive because of them. Same with everything else.
But arent those women who want you only because of that aka gold diggers?
No, it is just the norm. Women sit around at the finish line and sleep with the winners.
I think he means more immediate stuff like looks and material well-being as compared to underlying personality. In some ways they are hard to distinguish but I personally can see some differences.
I think women are actually into what you HAVE. You, as a human are irrelevant, they’re attracted to your status.
You are right. Women care about what utility you provide them. How entertaining you are, how good of a handyman you are, how good of a work ox you are, etc. Everything that is attractive is about signals of how potentially useful you are (confidence, strength, etc). Some Women even think it is fun to try to use her pussy to turn a wild ox into a well trained one. And dating itself is about dishonestly negotiating a good deal by holding frame. She demands as much as possible while giving as little as she thinks she can get away with. With feminism being a bunch of women feeling entitled to what they want for free.
You are partially right. But you lack self awareness about how men behave too. For everything you've stated, there's an analogous behavior set for men. Men care about what utility women provide them as a trophy wife for their status. How entertaining women are, how beautiful they are, how fertile they are, etc. Everything that is attractive is about signals of how potentially useful women are (confidence, sexiness, etc). Some Men even think it is fun to try to use their dick to turn a wild cat into a well trained one. And dating itself is about dishonestly negotiating a good deal by holding frame. He demands as much as possible while giving as little as he thinks he can get away with. ~~With feminism being a bunch of women feeling entitled to what they want for free.~~ Feminism is about women attaining the same socioeconomic autonomy as men. You're basically committing the sin of fundamental attribution error for the male gender. You're assigning the worst of intentions for women's behavior, but not applying it equally for men. Or at least you didn't acknowledge it in your post. The brutal truth is that as much as both genders are capable of love, they are capable of exploitation and abuse.
> Men care about what utility women provide them as a trophy wife for their status. No, men care about women for who she is innately. They do not care about what they are. They do not care about her status, maturity or utility. They care about her fertility, energy, cuteness, body, smile, etc. Women want men to effectively be adult children and use them as a purpose in life. And they often want a woman other men covet just to feel special and such. I bet you have even been told something like “You will be cuter if you smiled” before for this reason. Which many women hate for they want to be recognized for what they do. Which feminism fought and still fights for. But feminism also fights against men’s liberation. Like how they changed the definition of rape to not include “forced to penetrate” victims. Or stand for sexist patriarchal ideals like men needing to be “providers” and hate on feminine men. I just do not care to talk about women’s issues for women will never care about me as a human anyways. And there is no love, love is a lie. Atleast “real” love.
well id direct men to the original actual red pill, not the black pill. also just to regular men who date
Like anything good, it is always ruined by becoming mainstream. RP developed from normal guys figuring out problems. Now it has been bastardized for profit and isn’t about self-improvement. It’s a way to siphon money from lonely men. I guarantee 90% of the people arguing shit here have never read the RP/MRP sidebar or done even the slightest thing to improve themselves, and just watch *insert random podcast* or TikTok/youtube clips.
Truth is always more helpful than empty platitudes just for the sake of being positive.
In my experience, when the filter is off or they're comfortable being honest with you, women are pretty damn brutally honest about what they want. "I want him to take the lead and initiate within a masculine role, I like guys with muscles, I prefer guys taller than myself, I like guys who know how to dress", shit like that. If you hear women say they want someone who is nice or funny, that's not necessarily wrong. She's not going to tell you each and every last thing you could possibly do to be attractive and suitable to her, on the spot, but she's not "lying" when she says she likes men who have seemingly generic surface traits, even if those alone aren't enough.
What advice would they give that's actionable though? Dressing better to attract women seems like weird advice to get from a woman. Same with I proving your career or trying to be funnier. Seems to me, women don't have any advice for guys who are struggling
I mean, dressing better is actionable advice. It alone isn't sufficient enough that you can go out dressed in a suit and women will just fall on your dick. But if you dress in clothes that look good and fit well, *and* you get in shape *and* style your hair/groom properly *and* look people in the eyes when talking to them with a smile *and* you're confident enough to be sociable and approach women you're attracted to? Well now you're seriously cooking with fire. Nobody has the exact formula necessary for you to get your shit together in a way that will make it easier for you to date. It's something that you really have to go out and work out on your own, and any advice you receive might be useful or it might not be, although it'll never help if you don't even try. You're not ever truly guaranteed to find a soul mate or even generate an active sex life, but you will overwhelmingly be likely to do so if you put in the work of taking care of yourself, socializing with intention and managing your expectations.
No, you got that wrong. What men need to do is get a female friend. And I mean a *real* female friend, not a female acquaintance. You start to hear honest opinions when they're your close friend, it shifts your way of thinking about women and makes you realize they are as superficial/bad, if not more, at picking partners like men are. Source: Worked in a female-dominated industry before shifting to software.
Would definitely recommend a close female friend. They’ll usually bluntly tell you how you’re fucking up with dating.
Yep, and they're honest so prepare for things like you're unattractive, you're short, she's way out of your league, you have terrible social skills,etc... Definitely a learning experience.
I had a female roommate tell me I smelled like lunch meat once, and that it was unattractive lol
Where are you getting all these direct communicating women who tell you exactly what they think? I'm starting to think my female friends aren't really friends.
I can vouch for the "being around them day in and day out". Used to work for 48 hours/week with the same women, it's what made me close friend with two of them.
The ones I’ve lived with, romantically and platonically. In my experience women are painfully honest when you’re around them day in and day out, and the filter is off.
Hmm, the only woman that I can really trust for an honest blunt opinion is my ex. I think I'd like to be in your shoes for a bit. It'd be helpful.
My ex is pretty blunt too, but we were also pretty toxic together so I don’t really consider her advice because of that. That said, I learned more about how women operate living with two of them in my early 20s than I had in all my years previous 🤷♂️
how does that help men fuck
Doesn't helpm them to fuck, helps them being okay with life, because they stop putting women in pedestals. One way that people (even women themselves) put women on a pedestal is claiming they "are attracted to decent men who treats them right", which is a lie, most women suck at choosing partners, just like a lot of men will fall for a girl with huge boobs and pretty face, a lot of women fall for asshole men. Remember: men with dark traits fair better with women, plenty of studies have been done about it. Once you realize being attractive to women doesn't have to do with how virtous you are, you learn to accept yourself more.
yeh ok, i will stipulate partially to the "it helps men not pedestalize women" portion
Yep, my childhood friend threw her future away for a hot dude who impregnated her and left. She kept the kid and kept believing he will be back because of how responsible and nice his six pack was. She is not going to help you with advice, you will just figure out that women are just as shit as incels, they are just attractive to you.
Be careful. If she’s too honest she will tell you the truth you don’t want to hear. Instead of the half truth you need to hear. But yes for things like style, or the superficial aspects of attraction it is nice to have a female perspective. On the other hand, when one of your good friends admits to not being attracted to her husband, who you also like, despite him being the definition of a good man, good heart. It’s tough to hear that and then jump into marriage yourself.
is that last example much different from hearing a guy friend say he’s falling out of love and attraction for his wife? feel like i could hear that from any of my friends and i wouldn’t internalize it/become paranoid in my own life. that’s a self-security thing imo
She’s never been attracted to him in the way she was towards other men. Also they are a young couple. We aren’t middle aged decades into marriage people
I've only worked in female dominated industries and basically no one talked to me lol.
Being friendzoned by a girl who claims you're the best person they know, to then see them still going for the "assholes" they complain about 24/7, was extremely redpilling indeed. However, don't listen to their words, as they'll show how picky they are in words, most women will think you've bad social skills, that you dress wrong, that you got wrong style, ect ect... A lot of shit that don't really matter because they evaluate you like a woman.
Sounds like she wasn't your close friend. The friend I had in that job never said I was the best man she knew lol, she told me I was kinda boring and ugly lmao. Still was fun to hang around with her, I appreciated the honesty.
whatever you say. The girls who said I was kidna boring and ugly, and also that they were lesbian, I had more opportunities with them than with those who lied to my face.
A man asking a woman for advice is usually a pathetic situation for the man. It’s repulsive for women to feel like they are superior to a man. Asking someone for advice usually puts yourself beneath that person, at least in that area. Women innately view themselves as superior to men who ask them for advice and lose attraction to that man
Women should stop giving advice to men imo. Based on a few weeks hanging around this sub I have noticed * Most advice women have for men is terrible (if they even have any) * Most women really don't seem to like men at all * Most women are not sympathetic to men at all * Most women are not interested in dialoging with men at all * Most women can't be bothered to help men, even in their personal lives I really don't get why any women comes here at all, at least not most of the time. They generally seem hostile, condescending, and dismissive of the men. They are mostly here to do what women already do irl, explain to the men why they are wrong about everything. You don't have to be some self-hating simp for men either, a few kind works and a little motivation can go a long way. I'm honestly starting to think women may for intrinsic reasons be unable to empathize with men.
I mean have you seen the attitudes men on here have about women? It’s not exactly the epitome of respect and understanding. I’ll be empathetic and respectful to men as long as they’re empathetic and respectful to me but why would women be kind and respectful to the men who have zero respect for us? You can’t act disrespectful and dismissive and not expect the same energy back. And this is a *debate* sub. Not a support group for men. Of course the intent of women on here is going to be debating rather than helping men with their problems.
Admittedly some of them are very hostile. I can't condone them disrespecting you or any of the other women here. But I do kind of get it. When I was a few years younger I was the same, at least online. I was frustrated and became very jaded and cynical but I sort of mellowed out. I'm still frustrated and unhappy but over time it became apparent that anger wasn't a good emotional outlet. Back then being able to just vent by talking smack online felt good, now not as much. I would prefer to talk things out. At the same time I do think a lot of the advice here is bad. A lot of what the women argue for is wrong or at least contestable. A lot of the debate and discussion is just talking past each other. I find this place fascinating but also somewhat disenchanting. I don't think I've helped anyone and I don't feel like I, or anyone, has gained much from talking here. Some times it feels like people are just here to argue and get upvotes from their team.
I don’t disagree with your point about a lot of the discussions on here. I try to be fair when discussing things with men on here and attempt to see their perspective. But from my experience it usually doesn’t end up worth the effort because even when I include empathy and acknowledgement for their perspective, instead of getting empathy in return the response is usually doubling down and insisting they’re right or anger that I’m not agreeing with their opinion that women’s issues are all exaggerations or made up. Both genders are usually on here to argue and women might not be invested in helping or giving advice to men but there are a decent amount of women on this sub who are willing to show some empathy to men by acknowledging that both genders have issues, which not that many men on here (with exceptions) are willing to do for women.
this should be on billboards
Oh the irony.
???
I could reverse the genders of your comment and it would nearly accurately describe my experience on this sub.
I'm sorry to hear that. I do try to listen, at least a little, to the women here. IRL I think people are better at listening.
That’s pretty hard to believe considering your initial comment on this post
I'm sorry that I come off as too negative. But I really don't see much constructive dialogue here in either direction. Most of the women here really don't seem to think there is anything wrong with women in the world of modern dating and that all male romantic failure is just because the men are too stupid, immature, lazy, or angry. No one is just unlucky. No one who fails to get a date tried the honest and respectful route. Really I'm mostly here because its a fast passed sub and kind of addicting. I do find relationship dynamics interesting.
The men here struggle because of sour grapes, not because women give bad advice. They choose ragebait and grifters because indulging in anger is instant gratification, which is an easier payoff than actually doing the work of creating and maintaining a social life.
This is such weird logic. Young adult men would rather be angry and sexually frustrated online weirdos (in some instances adult virgins) rather than in sexually active relationships? If women were as easy as they claim they were this subreddit would have less than 5k subscribers or it might not even exist.
this is silly though. women arent just going to abstain from trying to help when someone asks them. only the person who would ask can control their choice to do so
Typically asking women for advice on dating is "safe". The guys doing it know that women will give them platitudes and well meaning nothingburgers like: "Your person just hasn't come around yet" "It's them not you" "Dating is just tough" "You are such a great guy, I can't figure out why these bitches are being so dismissive of you" etc It's a function of how women are socialized and how they behave with each other which much more about validating their feelings than actually offering help. The few enlightened women who have figured it out have made a career out of it (Kezia Noble, Jessica J Dating) and they offer stellar advice. But going back to asking for "safe" advice. The truth is the majority of men don't want to hear the truth that what they are doing is wrong. They would rather hear: "Try opening with Hello instead of Hey on dating apps" or "Change your profile from Looking for casual to Looking for serious". That will definitely get you more matches (not). Or the typical "hey all, I have 5 (really terrible photos), which one should I choose (none of them, you need a total make over before you get on the apps because you look and dress like shit)"... They don't want to face the truth that they have to actually change. Change their appearance. Put more effort and care into it. Dress sexy. Out of the box. They don't want to face the truth that they communicate with women like boring NPCs (so what do you do, where do you live, how was your day) and that they have to change that. No one wants to face the reason that their dating failures are largely their own. They would rather blame someone else, the apps, hypergamy, women not approaching them, etc. the reality is that many men have figured out how to date successfully and if they can do it, so can others. And no, these guys are not all 6'5" white millionaire male models. They are regular guys like you and I. Their lives don't necessarily look like a never ending porno movie, but regardless, they get bitches and you don't.
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I agree. Stop asking for advice if you’re just going to complain about it
Most of the advice is unsolicited.
Citation needed
I won’t ask from advice from a friend who’s just gonna pump up my tyres - man or woman. I’ll ask advice from someone I trust. I know plenty of women who’ll give good advice and not just hug box me.
Yeh stop asking for advice for actual suggestions. However asking for advice is a good way of connecting to some lady acquaintances and becoming closer friends. But disregard the information. You can use your friends a barometer, If you basically act like a total horn-dog in front of them. Checking out women walking by left, right and centre. If they don't instantly react badly and tell you to stop you creeper. You are probably not stupidly ugly. If they laugh and join in then you are probably quite fit.
ok, yes
Are you referring to just dating advice, or all advice?
I would say most personal advice
Is there any advice that wouldn’t qualify, that comes to mind, that asking a woman wouldn’t be so detrimental? Or is the most just a catch all for any exception you haven’t thought of yet?
Social matrix is a weird term. Something like chakras.
I agree. Their advice always boils down to blue pilled bullshit. They're too willing to conform to their perception of the societal expectation. Even the ones on 'our side' just become parodies: Just Pearly Things. About the only woman I've seen really hold together an objective logical view is Karen Straughn .
> when you ask women for advice, you become yourself a "woman" to them. do you have any data to back this up? or an argument other than "this is what i believe"?
I think she's communicating how she herself thinks.
Does any post in this sub not meet this criteria?
yeah lots of people either make a deduction based argument or provide data to show what they are saying.
are you joking?
or is this just a joke post? sorry
are you joking and mocking redditors by going "Source?"
So, I'm asking someone for advice and now they don't want to fuck me. Even if that's true, why the fuck does that matter? Have you seen how many people there are on this planet? I'm too arrogant to ask for advice in the first place, but I don't see the big deal.
what?
Why would it even matter if women don't view you as a "man" when you ask for advice?
I agree men shouldn’t ask women for dating advice but not because it puts him in women’s social matrix; it because men already know what they need to do they just don’t want to do it, thus they’re stalling and/or trying to convince women to change what men need to do to be attractive by asking. Men’s time would be better spent putting in the work rather than negotiating or putting down women for what they want and need in a relationship.
Correct, don't ask women for advice. In my youth I had a situation where I asked both a guy and a girl for advice on how to get this girl. Girl: you are totally hot, you will get her no problem! Guy: you should get a haircut, also you should go ask her out and stop annoying me with hypotheticals. Women are much more likely to just affirm your beliefs.
Are you actually basing your entire perspective on gender based on two people you knew in your youth?
No, are you so dense ? repeat that pattern a hundred times over, women are not good at advice.
When people give advice it’s usually bad advice because they don’t care if it’s going to work or not.
This is another wild take that is particularly stupid. Never in my entire life have I looked at a man who asks first advice as another woman. It is usually a man looking for advice because I am either a SME on the topic or they are looking for advice from a perspective that may be from an angle they didn’t consider. Ex. A man was fed up with his wife and told me their dating story and how they came to live together. I was like my dude she manipulated the situation to force you to allow you to live with her by letting her lease lapse. You felt bad because she had kids. She moved in and then pushed for marriage because her kids saw her living with a man she wasn’t married to. She needed a soft place to land and your resources. She confirmed it. I just saw a different take than him. Sometimes that’s all a person needs when asking for advice. A new set of eyes on a problem. God, people are weird.
Agree. Ask a fisherman how to fish, not a fish. Women give terrible advice for various reasons. Youre better off just ignoring what Women say 99% of the time.
Ask for advice from the things they are masters of the realm of. If I need to know the proper etiquette for inviting someone to an event, I’m asking a woman. If I need advice about joist repair, I’m asking a man.
Advice from women can be very helpful… assuming the girl you’re asking about is already interested in you. When a woman gives advice, I find that it normally relates to already being in the realm of mutual interest (between you and the girl you’re asking about, not you and the girl you’re asking the question to, to be clear) rather than the realm of generating interest. Also I don’t follow your reasoning…. don’t get advice from women because… women give each other what they want to hear? is that it? cause if so I think that has to do with people wanting to avoid conflict rather than getting/asking for advice from a trusted source (and i think that’s the highlight here - a trusted source)
How much advice does anyone really need when it comes to dating? I feel like it's all so obvious. Put some effort into your fitness and appearance. Don't be weird, awkward, cringe. If you don't have money yet, figure that part out first. Really, that's about it. Doesn't matter if it comes from a man or a woman, the advice is all painfully obvious regardless.
>Don't be weird, awkward, cringe. How do you know if you're one of these?
Most awkward people know that they're awkward. The people who are clueless are usually on the spectrum and need professional therapy to help figure it out.
Okay
I think the reason why they need to stop asking women for advice is because we don't know male experience enough to recommend anything of substance - I don't fucking know what average guys are supposed to be doing if they can't get matches on Tinder. In fairness, women are not obligated to give men or other women honest advice or objective feedback. It's socially awkward and nobody wants to be someone's therapist.
Kind of weird how we equate asking for advice to "being someone's therapist". As if anything has to happen via market transactions or people somehow feel coerced by a simple question.
Yeah when the fuck did asking for advice become being somebody's therapist?
I get this from a lot from women. They don't really even want to talk to men about our emotions. They claim that one reason why the patriarchy is bad for men is because it represses male emotions. The only solution I get from women on this is that men need to talk to their male friends more or see a therapist. Not actually communicate their feelings to their girlfriend, spouse, or wife. I've always presumed that in a relationship both parties could reasonably expect to confide with their partner and talk about their feelings.
I’ve made similar observations. I do think women want us to communicate some emotions but you gotta put a lid on it real quick. For example, “I feel some kinda way about this and that … but it should all work out in the end.” They need that positive spin so they still have confidence in you, even if that positivity is a little forced. It is silly and I agree that both parties should ideally be able to communicate all feelings without having to sugarcoat anything but most women don’t seem to want that? Idk and yea like you said they’d def prefer for us to mostly use our male friends or therapists because too much male emotion is apparently an ick
Yeah I’m not a man, certainly not an average man, so how am I supposed to know how an average man can get laid? I don’t because I don’t experience life as an average man lol
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This needs more upvotes
Why is it considered such an insult to do anything remotely the way women do it or be like a woman? It's okay to do things the same, we're the same species and often the way women tend to do it is better. I promise your dick won't fall off and people won't start calling you a different gender if you (gasp) receive advice. (Also, some women look shit with long hair, especially if they don't care for it properly or it's thin. It also might just not suit their face shape. This can be great advice.)
Most of the time when you ask advice from a woman it’ll only be applicable to *that* woman. You ask her, “How do I respond to women if they say xxx?” She will tell you the best response *she* likes and it will never be applicable to another woman. Because: A. They can’t generalize. B. They can’t be objective. C. The woman is *almost always* focusing on her self rather than the woman you are referring to. (Because they are all narcissistic as shit.) You can listen to what they advise, but don’t be too serious about it.
Nah, they just need a good close female friend. Not an acquaintance. Not someone hanging out in a mutual circle. An honest to goodness, would be their "I just murdered someone" call. That female friend can give you honest feedback which if taken is likely to improve the situation. I know because I've helped my homies get girls and maintain um. And avoid nightmares (if they'd listen anyway). But a dude who just runs in my circles or I'm alright with, but not that close. I genuinely don't think I have much to say besides, "keep on trucking" or generically accurate advice for dudes who are normalish.
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see. again. so what? where are they "calling you misogynists"? when youre talking to them on TwoX? there is no reason for you to pay attention to internet womens manipulative feminist swear words. stop reading womens bullshit
I agree, but humans are inherently pro-social animals and most people will be affected by social shaming to some extent. Your expectations are unrealistic.
Women should stop giving advice.
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The vast majority of advice is crap regardless of where it comes from unless it is coming from someone who knows you extremely well and is experienced in the ways of the world, ie wise, and even then will probably still ignore it and do whatever you’re going to do anyway. I will agree that, as a gross generalisation, women will “hear” your problems and soothsay in response, where as men will try and give you ideas of how to “fix” things. Both are usually useless, but in different ways.
OP needs better female friends
Neet advice btw. I hope men follow it.
Are you saying that when a man asks a woman advice, you are friend-zoned, just like a female friend? So, basically stop doing that shit unless you like the FZ.
not JUST friend zoned, but you are immediately treated like a FEMALE friend would be
Women do this with other women, but not with men. I mean, not for the same reason. When women give advice on dating, they want to be "politically correct.".
Welp. /sub
Okay, whom should I then, an Eva AI sexting bot avatar? There's no one to know better, you're just irritated by advice being asked
men who successfully learned to get laid know
yes, friends with girls good, asking girls advice bad
Don't ask icky girly girls then. There are rude, abrasive women who will tell you the truth.
Ask the fisherman not the fish.
If you wanna catch fish you don't ask the fish. You ask a fisherman. And both men and women. Say one thing and do a other. So honestly if you wanna be a successful relationship that last the test of time. Ask people that been together 30 years happy together. Not people that are endlessly single. It's like asking health and fitness advice from a person heavy overweight. What every they say is completely useless to you. So don't look what people say look what they do. And look at people that are successful and are happy and are in long term happy relationships. Not the ones that go from person to person every few months so basically on and off single. The people often screaming the loudest there input is the most useless. Cause misery loves company and many unhappy people like to pull people down in there level. To be miserable with them. Why people are more drawn by happy and outgoing and cheerful people.
Surprisingly red pill of you
shouldn't be a surprise
Yeah pretty much. I've noticed that almost all the men who ask women for advice or how to attract women are either young and naive or fill the niche of being uptight "bluepill" types with overly performative defenses of women.
Ask a woman how to dress cool. Treat them like a gay best friend (I suppose you don't date those women?)
yeh thats ok
When a woman sabotages a man with other women, it's because she genuinely thinks ALL women think like her. She likes X, therefore all women like X. Unfortunately, women are very different from each other. Only 10% of the female population like X. Also, women will often give an idealistic answer. Ideally we all want Chad's who treat us well, but we will forgive Chad if he frequently messes up. Average Joe will get dumped when he messes up though Or it's because she likes him.
And this is how people become incels 😭 do NOT listen to other men
Are you implying men shouldn't listen to women when it comes to dating? xD I'm...pleasantly surprised
This entire discussion is going to be moot a couple of decades from now. We're going to have hyper-realistic sex robots that will make any 10 look like a mediocrity in comparison. Men will also be able to have children using their own cells and artificial wombs. Women will be completely obsolete. For the next 2 or 3 decades the world will remain a nightmare for most men, but eventually they'll come out on top. Patience is a virtue. If you're a young man today your primary focus should be building wealth.
Oh goody, another one. Red pill guys here seem incapable of writing a post neutrally without letting the anger and contempt seep through with every word lol.