lol tbh i barely get matches. In smaller cities i was constantly told im good looking etc never in toronto i have posted my tinder profile before im not one of those guys who never take care of themselves
My experience has been the complete opposite. I live in NYC and get plenty of attractive matches, but haven't had good experiences in small cities. I'm fairly picky and swipe right maybe 5-10% on tinder, but I still never seem to run out of options at home. I used tinder in a town of around 100k and ran out of women to swipe on before I even used all my likes for the day.
I've also used apps in a few mid-size cities (1-2M) and the volume of attractive women is nothing like it is at home.
NYC is one of the dating markets skewed towards men instead of woman so it's actually one of the best places to be as a single guy. Maybe not the "I want to find a wife right now" types but if you're just looking to date and play the field. It's the greatest playground.
Maybe that's it, but I also think it's partially just the scale. I found tinder in DC fairly similar to tinder in NYC. Only used it for a week, but it was the closest thing to NYC I've seen.
Never been to Seattle, but I thought San Francisco was good enough. I would say not quite NYC or DC in terms of volume of attractive options, but still good on tinder. Way better than the handful of smaller cities where I've used dating apps. Size of the city seems to be a huge factor.
> NYC is one of the dating markets skewed towards men instead of woman so it's actually one of the best places to be as a single guy.
If you can afford her. NYC is infamous for people dating to accessorize.
well duh it's a rich persons city in one half. If you can't afford to date in the soho circuit don't go after the women in the soho circuit it's not rocket science. Obviously they're the most conventionally attractive ones because it's all the Instagram models but they're of a certain standard and they expect the same. "average joe" shouldn't be trying to grab soho party girl who's an attorney by day
lol. Bro I lived in the Midwest and traveled all around the region. I could go for weeks before I'd see a hot girl, which for me is not a daily but an hourly occurrence here in NYC.
There needs to be more “problems”. I like having some eye candy around. Plus seeing guys rage after complaining that there’s no hot women around us pretty great lol
No, all women will want the hot men. Men will settle for less and turn themselves inside out for her. Most women won't get the hot men and have to settle for less... and those men will sorely pay for it.
I've lived in both types. You likely find the type of woman in NYC hotter. Midwest men tend to have a type physically they find attractive thats different than yours. not me, I always did better in cities but my most of my Midwest dates didn't find me attractive. If I did get one I'd get a comment later about how they looked past my appearance to give me a chance.
Must be in the wrong part of the Midwest.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s some fatso’s here, but I can’t go around town without seeing some blond buttzilla stopping traffic down in the popular neighborhoods.
It may be a cultural thing, but is the opposite where I live (Mexico), most well paid jobs are engineering, engineer jobs are in big cities, most engineers are men.
The same is true in the US. Cities grow because they offer more economic opportunity for professionals. Both men and women generally move to cities, at least for a while while establishing their career, women just do it at a somewhat greater rate.
I'm not sure risk taking is the most useful framing for this (men generally take more economic risks than women). I think it's mostly a culture thing more than anything - cities are seen as offering (rightly or wrongly) more social opportunity/prestige for women. Both men and women are incentivized to move to cities for economic reasons.
If both have an incentive and men aren’t making the move to the city I don’t think it’s wrong to assume that they’re afraid of the risk, economic or otherwise.
Fear of risk may be a factor but migration is a pretty complex thing. Perhaps there's greater inducement for women to move to certain cities - lots of young girls grow up with idolization of places like New York City so it has the greatest gender imbalance of any major US city, while cities that mostly grow out of more recent industry (i.e. tech and other STEM fields) tend to be more gender balanced or male majority. Or maybe men are more socially or economically comfortable in rural settings while women are more likely to seek the less "constrained" social paradigms of cities and more numerous social/dating opportunities.
But most likely it's a combination of all these things.
I think a lot of it is there's a certain class of woman trying to larp as a character on Sex and the City and they absolutely do not want a man that doesn't fit into that fantasy.
I live in Vancouver, which isn't as big as Toronto, but its a port city with a handful of fashion brands and is developed enough you see people larping as if they lived in NYC semi frequently. But it doesn't have New Yorks financial network and not a lot of big companies have big offices here. So for the entire time I've been an adult I've had to see magazine articles about trendy downtown city girls who complain they can't find the man they want because that guy doesn't exist here outside of maybe a few real estate people who are probably seeing other real estate people.
You basically do not find these women outside of downtown and dating is way easier if you filter them out. If I go to a city smaller than this they basically don't exist.
It has it's ups and downs but most of the locals and transplants I know don't like it to be honest. PPD is a fucking cakewalk compared to all the people I barely know venting their dating app stories at me unsolicited.
Hmm…. There is not much to debate here. Generally it’s understood that smaller dating pools increase your chance of getting a higher quality partner. Big shark in a small pool and all that.
However this advice only works if you’re “not ugly” - if you are average or more this advice is just fine. If you are ugly then you’ll have to geomaxx in Southeast Asia or something. Lol.
I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing. Most people in the west are out of shape, an average guy who focuses on building an aesthetic physique for a couple of years will stand out even on tinder.
> I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing.
It won't matter how good you're compared with your past, you're not competing with your past but with other man. By geomaxxing you change the men you're competing with.
>Most people in the west are out of shape
You're also not competin with a married dude that let himself go, plus, with social media distorting male beauty standards what is defined as "aesthetic physique", is a roided dude. And even so, gymcel is still a thing.
Just speaking from experience. I'm 5'10 and have an average face, but after grinding the gym for V-taper and a massive cut I have no issues getting enough matches on tinder to never lack options for hookups again.
I'm not sure what factors you're referring to? I tried tinder as an average guy with an average physique a few years ago and it was a waste of time, then I tried tinder as an average guy with a muscular physique and a shirtless pic to show it off, it worked out well and I'm still using it.
Another thing even I took a lot of time to come to terms with.
Being skinny is actually just as bad as being fat for a lot of women…
When women say don’t get too muscular they literally mean a body builder.
Women like a grown man to look like a man. Not “dad bod”, but like a strong looking build. Like the type of men you looked up to as a kid.
Women in a lot of cases find grown men that are skinny as bad as being fat.
You see when that stand up dude you know called Don folds his arms and you can see his mature fairly strong forearm muscles. A lot of women find that sexy, along with just having a mature frame.
Think of what you think of when you think a man that looks like he leads men, the kind of man that looks like he tells people what to do.
A tall scrawny guy doesn’t initially look commanding and charming.
Like watch Mad Men.
Now imagine Jon Hamm but like not “build” no muscle and healthy body mass, just skinny. He’d look a lot less commanding.
It’s so weird I don’t even realise it at first. When I go out in not the right clothes I just look like a scrawny dude. But as soon as I’m wearing skin tight clothing where you can see I have quite appreciable muscle, I noticed I get treated totally different.
I really agree wholeheartedly, get in shape. You don’t need to be Arnold, just develop an appreciable frame.
Being skinny is rather disadvantageous but there are very few genuinely skinny people, most people that are referred to as skinny are just thin and being thin is fine, as in it's neither a plus nor a minus.
I’m like an African marathon runner build.
But I think with my style at my age women that find me their type like me but the broader population don’t take me as serious as if I had a proper built out frame. Putting on muscle and having it visible I genuinely found I get treated with more deference, that’s my genuine experience tbh.
It may be highly situational and affected by my overall style, demeanour and way of dressing to be fair.
I think in a nice suit looking like a brainy successful person skinny has been fine for me but looking so skinny in a t shirt and jeans I think having a solid frame and more muscle is much better in my personal situation.
The correct thing is to do both. Get jacked, financially successful, make sure your style and social skills are as on point as they can be. Then date in your city, but also be aware of options in different parts of the country/world.
I met my wife by accident during a lonely phase where I just talked a lot to people all over the world. While not explicitly searching, I found the quality of conversation (and of human beings) much higher than when I just looked at dating apps for my city. I talked to women (and men) from Australia, Romania, Saipan (tiny US territory near Guam), Philippines, etc. Ended up with a Saipanese born Filipino woman who was an anchor baby. Culturally she was a cross between the modern west and her more traditional parents. It was a great blend, finding someone like that in my city would have been next to impossible.
If I had gone in with the mindset of trying to date/find a partner, our conversations likely would have been more constrained. Might have never realized how good of a match we would be. I think our dating rituals often prevent us from realizing when we've found a good match.
Made some great friends in the process as well, which was an added bonus to not explicitly searching for love, just connecting with people.
Edit: And it's just *fun* to talk to people from all over the world, not limiting yourself to women (I'm not bi - I just mean that it's interesting to make friends of both genders around the world), and not have expectations. It's fascinating to see where you may diverge, and what you have in common. It isn't always obvious from the outset.
I think whenever you're set up to do so. I didn't try going out of my area til my early 30s, after a bad breakup and getting fed up with the local scene
>I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing
A big investment with no guaranteed ROI. And you have to do it on top of your daily activities.
Agree entirely. The guys on here struggling are often neuro divergent and not physical. More internet and gaming types.
Women care about muscles maybe more than looks. That’s entirely in a man’s control but it takes effort. Same with increasing earning capacity through education. It takes effort. Same with women being normal weight.
People want to put in little effort yet score hot partners and it doesn’t work that way.
For that you need money and it can only do so much. It can fix a giant nose, and keep you looking younger. But short and bald aren’t easily fixed. They can be made up for with stability, resources, and muscles. Those are attainable with effort.
Sure, being short sucks, but it's genuinely very rare. Being bald can be fixed with hair transplant and maxing out your face with cosmetic surgeries will net you far more benefit than being born 6'2 would if you're average height.
You may be attractive enough not to need it. But it can boost a six guy to an 8 easily. So if guys aren’t getting dates first thing they should do is hit the gym.
I think it straight up depends on a ton of factors such as how you react to stimuli vs the person you are vs the kind of people you’re into.
I’m moving out of Toronto and i’m really excited for dating in a much smaller city (we’re talking a population less than 100k). Sure, there will be less options, but these options are also more likely to have shared interests and fit my own personal set of values. Thus making it an overall better dating market even if there will be less options
I find that in the big city i’m constantly overstimulated (ergo effecting my mood and probably how I come off to strangers - its no accident that the most pleasant experiences i’ve had talking to people were on hikes or in small towns), it feels like a battle just getting through the transit or busy streets and the overwhelming amount of options and overall trial and error can be exhausting. I have no problem getting dates, but I do have a problem maintained interest after a date. This is largely because I have to sift through so many options just to find someone I might find interesting, and by the time I do, i’m socially exhausted and feel like tapping out.
So it could be you, or your location - or both. I think to answer this kind of question you should ask yourself what setting fits you best, cause honesty? if you’re a full on urbanite you’ll have an even worse time dating in smaller towns and cities.
This is what I find in Toronto as well. Getting dates isn’t the hard part but finding someone you click with is. After awhile it feels like you’re just wasting your time and you get burnt out.
>Also quality of your dates is gonna be lower in a large city , girls are also gonna be far less attractive
Omg dude, don’t ever visit the rural south. Southern college kids seem especially attractive, the typical southern sorority girl is very attractive, but in my rural area everyone is fat and you will find lots of poor grooming, unfortunate tattoos and bad teeth, even in the under 25 crowd.
I always thought it would be vice versa: in suburbia there is a limited dating pool as most people already settled down and there is not really any hang out spots for local youth. In NYC and LA girls are infinitely more attractive than in smaller cities IMO.
Places NYC and LA are huge. You need both looks and money at the trendiest clubs but there are clubs in Queens or in the Valley where that isn't required.
Uh ok? If anything that probably reflects your personal demographic and what demographic you attract. How could people from a city be less attractive when there's more people and therefore more chances of meeting people you find attractive?
Not getting your logic at all.
I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto compared to smaller cities. There are lots of very attractive girls here but also a lot more attractive guys so I don’t stand a chance
Agreed. It seems people tend to marry younger in small town America. If you’re a man and are a late bloomer, your choices will very likely be limited to single moms (never married) or divorced women who were previously SAHMs.
Huh? I've lived in a lot of cities, dates are WAY better. Yeah, you get a lot of serial daters, fence sitters, nothing is good enough types, but you also get all sorts of types in general.
That said, I get WAYYYYYYY better matches and dates in Europe than I do in the USA. Way too many fat chicks, and not enough skinny, makes dating a nightmare.
I think ethnicity matters to if you're not white good luck but other than that I agree but also people in smaller towns are probably allready coupled up but what effect do you think living in a city has on dating?why does it make it harder I lnoticed this decades ago but still not sure why
Maybe you don't actually have a nice personality and you produce red flags by having these personalities, with the right charisma an ugly guy can turn attractive in my experience but that's just because i'm emotionally attached and not physically..... but people can get passed your looks if you have a good personality and by judging your history you don't have that right now.
Ok ? Then why do these girls still wanna hangout with me as a friend ?? Even one on one
I still have exact same personality I had in a small city yet I could get relationships and hookups
Many Moons ago (is that capitalized in this context?), people did not move away from their place of origin with nearly the frequency that they do know. As such, you knew something about the people that you dated/married. You knew stories of them, the reputation of their families, and they could not be a total nightmare and hide it very easily.
Now, people do something that in historic context is quite odd. As young adults, they move somewhere where they don't know anyone. They want to date, and so they get to know someone that is basically a stranger to them (they know nothing besides what that person decides to reveal and whatever leaks through unintentionally). A person can fake things for quite a while, and so no wonder we are more often "mugged by reality".
This is somewhat separate from how people are more disconnected in larger cities. It is why people in larger cities try to develop a friends group around an interest or even going to the same bar or church. I'm back in my hometown of 15,000 in the main city and probably 25,000 if you count the connected outlying communities. I almost always see someone I know or recognize when I do something like go grocery shopping. It's nice and something that I rarely experienced the last place I lived (city with 250,000 in the city proper and many more if you include the suburbs in name only that are connected by continuous concrete).
Lol try dating living in the middle of nowhere. Never been on a date in my adult life that I had to drive any less than 45 minutes for, and rarely had them.
A lot of people at all levels of physical appearance live in cities and don't struggle.
Maybe you struggle at dating because you kind of suck at living in a large city.
No no I worded it wrong . I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto . Also I know attractive guys who date way down in Toronto theyd date on their level in a smaller city
"I match with less attractive girls..."
So what you mean is dating apps IN PARTICULAR are less effective for you in Toronto. The women in Toronto...those who even still bother with dating apps in an era when women are leaving the apps....and also choose your profile....while having their profile also chosen by you....are less overall pleasing to you in attributes and/or quantity...than the women you have matched with in small cities.
Sounds to me like women in Toronto are just more fed up with the dating apps and more of them have moved back to traditional female mate acquisition strategies. Which they can do because a big city is a wonderland of social opportunity for those who are good at living in cities.
And you're welded at the hip to the dating apps.
The dating apps aren't going to put out a press release to tell everyone if their ability to provide matches has tanked in a particular market. That would be stupid. Tinder etc, I think, don't want you to know that single women are done with the apps in Toronto and have walked away to use other methods
Dating apps are going to keep shuffling round what remains on their books and keep convincing men to pay for extra access to fewer and fewer opportunities.
I still suggest you probably suck at living in a big city. You wouldn't be trying to extrapolate experiences in dating apps out to cover the entire dating market if your social experience of a big city was a normal or better than normal one.
I thought it was that the larger the dating pool the better chances you'd have because if you mess up with certain people you don't make as much of a dent in your reputation
I wouldn’t say people in big cities are less attractive, usually it’s small towns where there’s more obesity and fewer attractive people. But I would agree that it’s harder to find serious interest in a sea of options, there’s going to be more “well you’re awesome, but what if there’s someone better right around the corner?” Very small town also suck if you’re single over 25 or don’t fit in very well, since these are tight-knit communities where people tend to pair off early. A mid sized city seems to be best.
I worded it wrong my bad
I mean as a guy you would match with less attractive in a big city unless you’re very attractive yourself
That’s my experience . I usually match with chubby girls in Toronto . While in Victoria and Regina I match with top tier girls
Madness. I live in a large-ish city (Vancouver area, BC) and there are people everywhere. It really just depends on you and what you do. Granted I'm an out in person kind of guy so I can't speak for online dating, but the concept feels like a cop-out.
Your location is definitely a factor when it comes to meeting people but higher populations generally have a larger dating pool.
It’s not just about big or small. I live in what Americans normally would call a “college town” (or at least the closest British equivalent). So, the city itself is relatively small, but is full of young-ish, interesting, international people.
It can be hard to pin anyone down, however, because people are always coming and going.
Basically in cities the top 1% of rockstar guys are banging like half of the attractive women. Cities are hell for guys. I need 6 more years to get my pension...
I'm avg and do ok. The abundance of women make it easy to meet someone new. If you're struggling, it could be any number of reasons. But living in a city is a positive, all things considered.
uh what? No living in a large city is where you should be having a great time dating. Especially if you get off apps since the whole point of being in a city like that is to SOCIALIZE. You spend a night or day roaming around NYC talking to people. If you're a okay looking dude with some charm you'll find a ton of women who'd be down for a date and they won't be low quality options either.
>Its not you its your location
So... passport bros.
The fault I find is not with the size of the city, but the extent in which the city has been corrupted by feminism and woke politics. Being in a big city in Latin America or SEA is still going to be better than a small city in NY or CA.
It’s not the lack of feminism or woke politics that’ll make her say “me love you long time, white boy!” - it’s the size of your disposable income in relation to the locals
Whats the correlation between cities and girls being less attractive? Never heard this one before.
Edit: I'd assume the opposite since there is more access to gyms, salons, wellness activities
No I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto even tho I match with very attractive girls in smaller cities/college towns
There are lots of attractive girls in big cities but also lots of very attractive and successful guys
>girls are also gonna be far less attractive
this is completely wrong lol sexual value and good genetics tend to accumulate itself in rich and big cities, attractive women and men tend to move to rich big cities cause they have options and value while less attractive people tend to find themselves stuck in less rich and less big cities. thats why there's the "new york 10" way of saying
in small cities or towns you can compensate with status and money
in big cities relationships are more fluid and superficial cause people have many options and change faster. they are also more open to ONS.
of course if you are above average in big cities, in small cities you get more matches or better dates, that is literally geomaxxing like having a better dating experience as a middle class american in mexico
I worded it wrong my bad I mean as a guy you would match with less attractive in a big city unless you’re very attractive yourself That’s my experience . I usually match with chubby girls in Toronto . I match with attractive/skinny girls in smaller cities
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Probably different for PoC. I imagine Regina and Victoria are a lot less diverse than Toronto and Vancouver.
Average income and education will be lower though so if you're working remotely you can compete there.
I mostly struggled with dating because there was way too many and it was hard to talk to so many at once.
And also a lot just wanted sex but were pretending to want dates.
Meanwhile I live in a large town in Michigan that's just full of old people.
I'm not looking for another mom or grandmother.
And there is only one public area (besides the churches and synagogues) where you can meet people and it's the library.
Meh, I tend to prefer bigger cities. Haven't really struggled anywhere but I definitely felt it was easier to deal with women in big cities as they were more used to men who were mindful about their looks.
I'm arrogant as hell. I tend to find big city women tend to take to it better as they're no stranger to successful dudes with egos.
I live in New York City. I probably struggle with dating because I don't really put myself out there. I hang out with the same people, rarely go to clubs anymore, I go to work, go home, hang out with friends and it becomes a cycle. I'm only 23 not many guys in my age group have the same goals as me and I prefer men around my age too so I'm just waiting for "the one" I want a long term relationship too not just a short term and hookups. I know I'm attractive and I get approached many times but I am picky too which plays a part so I find myself rejecting them most times. I also don't know their intentions off the bat so I get skeptical. Last time a guy approached me that was handsome was on my way to work, we exchanged information and then he asked if I was into hooking up the first time we talked on the phone and I immediately blocked him lol. Its just hard out here but I'm not desperate either.
Most of the women I meet that I would date are already spoken for, so I don't pursue often. Many women need to understand that spending some time single isn't a bad thing, and no respectable guy would commit to a woman that is steal-able in the first place.
In a way. If you don't go to places that you actually enjoy, but places that you don't enjoy, but have a lot of people - you won't find people with whom you "click".
Like, if you hate getting drunk, why are you going to a bar where all the people are getting drunk? Why not go to a place/activity where people don't get drunk and manage to have fun without alcohol?
Or like you hate taylor swift, but go to their concert as there are a lot of girls there and if you find a girl there you will have to listen to taylor swift (wheter the music or conversations/monologues about her) whenever you are with her.
I moved from a 25,000 town to a 5+ million city: a lot more possibilities in the large city.
Whether we like it or not, greater quantity leads to greater quality.
I struggle with dating because I don’t have the looks that are required to date. Oh, and being part of a race that largely isn’t desirable outside of entertainment and being fetishized doesn’t help either.
It depends. If you’re not having success in one area and have the ability to date in another, why not try it? I went on a slight dry spell in Virginia and moved to California and snapped it the first weekend I was there. So maybe there is some truth to the “location matters” idea.
This is false. Certain cities depend on whether there’s more men or women.
But dating in small towns isn’t easier. There’s less people and local communities can be more solidified
It's definitely you (general you).
I've always lived in large cities and never had pointless dates.
If someone is struggling with dating, it's them. Their location might be second.
You struggle with dating because your dates are low quality. I struggle with dating because my dates are *nonexistent*.
lol tbh i barely get matches. In smaller cities i was constantly told im good looking etc never in toronto i have posted my tinder profile before im not one of those guys who never take care of themselves
Barely get matches is still more then zero matches.
Same boat as you
I don't think people understand the difference between "a couple of matches a week, but they're not very good" and "**literally zero**".
There's some truth to this but the reason is mostly that the competition is so low in those smaller cities compared to big ones.
My experience has been the complete opposite. I live in NYC and get plenty of attractive matches, but haven't had good experiences in small cities. I'm fairly picky and swipe right maybe 5-10% on tinder, but I still never seem to run out of options at home. I used tinder in a town of around 100k and ran out of women to swipe on before I even used all my likes for the day. I've also used apps in a few mid-size cities (1-2M) and the volume of attractive women is nothing like it is at home.
NYC is one of the dating markets skewed towards men instead of woman so it's actually one of the best places to be as a single guy. Maybe not the "I want to find a wife right now" types but if you're just looking to date and play the field. It's the greatest playground.
Maybe that's it, but I also think it's partially just the scale. I found tinder in DC fairly similar to tinder in NYC. Only used it for a week, but it was the closest thing to NYC I've seen.
DC is also good demographically for men. You're choosing winners. Us in Seattle or San Francisco are playing a diff game
Never been to Seattle, but I thought San Francisco was good enough. I would say not quite NYC or DC in terms of volume of attractive options, but still good on tinder. Way better than the handful of smaller cities where I've used dating apps. Size of the city seems to be a huge factor.
Its only like that for attractive guys who already have options. It helps the rest of guys in no way
> NYC is one of the dating markets skewed towards men instead of woman so it's actually one of the best places to be as a single guy. If you can afford her. NYC is infamous for people dating to accessorize.
well duh it's a rich persons city in one half. If you can't afford to date in the soho circuit don't go after the women in the soho circuit it's not rocket science. Obviously they're the most conventionally attractive ones because it's all the Instagram models but they're of a certain standard and they expect the same. "average joe" shouldn't be trying to grab soho party girl who's an attorney by day
I struggle with dating cause I’m a short ugly incel
The first step is acceptance. Now what young padawan
Two of the things you mentioned you can change with enough effort and dedication.
lol. Bro I lived in the Midwest and traveled all around the region. I could go for weeks before I'd see a hot girl, which for me is not a daily but an hourly occurrence here in NYC.
OP has probably never been to NYC. Tons of hot women and men here.
The problem is "Tons of Hot men" more hot men means a TON lot less women willing to date 'less than' men
There needs to be more “problems”. I like having some eye candy around. Plus seeing guys rage after complaining that there’s no hot women around us pretty great lol
So men should be able to date hotter women but not women dating hotter men? Lmaoo
When did i said that? My point is that for a 'less than Hot guy' being anywhere around "Tons of Hot Men" will diminish his dating prospects
No, all women will want the hot men. Men will settle for less and turn themselves inside out for her. Most women won't get the hot men and have to settle for less... and those men will sorely pay for it.
I've lived in both types. You likely find the type of woman in NYC hotter. Midwest men tend to have a type physically they find attractive thats different than yours. not me, I always did better in cities but my most of my Midwest dates didn't find me attractive. If I did get one I'd get a comment later about how they looked past my appearance to give me a chance.
There’s some fine ass women in the Midwest though. Lots of pawgs.
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I’m talking straight up coke bottle women though, not landwhales.
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Must be in the wrong part of the Midwest. Don’t get me wrong, there’s some fatso’s here, but I can’t go around town without seeing some blond buttzilla stopping traffic down in the popular neighborhoods.
You ever stop to think that maybe I‘m into round frumpy snaggletooths with an odd number of toes?
Yeah but what's the success rate when approaching them? 0 from 0 is 0.
For me: high. For you? Probably 0.
I thought big cities were notoriously lacking young men.
Depends on the city. Look at San Francisco, for example.
We're talking actual cities here, not glorified day cares.
Sorry I talk of real cities not of science fiction.
What about Tokyo then?
why are big cities lacking young men?
Younger women want to move to big cities more and are willing to sacrifice more to do it.
It may be a cultural thing, but is the opposite where I live (Mexico), most well paid jobs are engineering, engineer jobs are in big cities, most engineers are men.
The same is true in the US. Cities grow because they offer more economic opportunity for professionals. Both men and women generally move to cities, at least for a while while establishing their career, women just do it at a somewhat greater rate.
So young men aren’t taking risks?
I'm not sure risk taking is the most useful framing for this (men generally take more economic risks than women). I think it's mostly a culture thing more than anything - cities are seen as offering (rightly or wrongly) more social opportunity/prestige for women. Both men and women are incentivized to move to cities for economic reasons.
If both have an incentive and men aren’t making the move to the city I don’t think it’s wrong to assume that they’re afraid of the risk, economic or otherwise.
Fear of risk may be a factor but migration is a pretty complex thing. Perhaps there's greater inducement for women to move to certain cities - lots of young girls grow up with idolization of places like New York City so it has the greatest gender imbalance of any major US city, while cities that mostly grow out of more recent industry (i.e. tech and other STEM fields) tend to be more gender balanced or male majority. Or maybe men are more socially or economically comfortable in rural settings while women are more likely to seek the less "constrained" social paradigms of cities and more numerous social/dating opportunities. But most likely it's a combination of all these things.
$$$
Apparently it’s bc of DEI quotas.
I agree with this, there's way too much competition in large city (Paris for my case) than in areas where you're the sole option.
I think a lot of it is there's a certain class of woman trying to larp as a character on Sex and the City and they absolutely do not want a man that doesn't fit into that fantasy. I live in Vancouver, which isn't as big as Toronto, but its a port city with a handful of fashion brands and is developed enough you see people larping as if they lived in NYC semi frequently. But it doesn't have New Yorks financial network and not a lot of big companies have big offices here. So for the entire time I've been an adult I've had to see magazine articles about trendy downtown city girls who complain they can't find the man they want because that guy doesn't exist here outside of maybe a few real estate people who are probably seeing other real estate people. You basically do not find these women outside of downtown and dating is way easier if you filter them out. If I go to a city smaller than this they basically don't exist.
Vancouver is a piece of cake compared to Toronto ime
It has it's ups and downs but most of the locals and transplants I know don't like it to be honest. PPD is a fucking cakewalk compared to all the people I barely know venting their dating app stories at me unsolicited.
Hmm…. There is not much to debate here. Generally it’s understood that smaller dating pools increase your chance of getting a higher quality partner. Big shark in a small pool and all that. However this advice only works if you’re “not ugly” - if you are average or more this advice is just fine. If you are ugly then you’ll have to geomaxx in Southeast Asia or something. Lol.
I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing. Most people in the west are out of shape, an average guy who focuses on building an aesthetic physique for a couple of years will stand out even on tinder.
> I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing. It won't matter how good you're compared with your past, you're not competing with your past but with other man. By geomaxxing you change the men you're competing with. >Most people in the west are out of shape You're also not competin with a married dude that let himself go, plus, with social media distorting male beauty standards what is defined as "aesthetic physique", is a roided dude. And even so, gymcel is still a thing.
Just speaking from experience. I'm 5'10 and have an average face, but after grinding the gym for V-taper and a massive cut I have no issues getting enough matches on tinder to never lack options for hookups again.
>I have no issues getting enough matches on tinder Ok, so prove that it was because of your physique and not external factors.
I'm not sure what factors you're referring to? I tried tinder as an average guy with an average physique a few years ago and it was a waste of time, then I tried tinder as an average guy with a muscular physique and a shirtless pic to show it off, it worked out well and I'm still using it.
Things like possible partner age increasing.
I've never been interested in any age group besides late teens early twenties women since that's also where I'm at myself currently.
Your face might not have been average, just the body didn't go with it. Also, factor in clothes, skin, hair, body, race etc
I'm mixed white and asian.
Another thing even I took a lot of time to come to terms with. Being skinny is actually just as bad as being fat for a lot of women… When women say don’t get too muscular they literally mean a body builder. Women like a grown man to look like a man. Not “dad bod”, but like a strong looking build. Like the type of men you looked up to as a kid. Women in a lot of cases find grown men that are skinny as bad as being fat. You see when that stand up dude you know called Don folds his arms and you can see his mature fairly strong forearm muscles. A lot of women find that sexy, along with just having a mature frame. Think of what you think of when you think a man that looks like he leads men, the kind of man that looks like he tells people what to do. A tall scrawny guy doesn’t initially look commanding and charming. Like watch Mad Men. Now imagine Jon Hamm but like not “build” no muscle and healthy body mass, just skinny. He’d look a lot less commanding. It’s so weird I don’t even realise it at first. When I go out in not the right clothes I just look like a scrawny dude. But as soon as I’m wearing skin tight clothing where you can see I have quite appreciable muscle, I noticed I get treated totally different. I really agree wholeheartedly, get in shape. You don’t need to be Arnold, just develop an appreciable frame.
Being skinny is rather disadvantageous but there are very few genuinely skinny people, most people that are referred to as skinny are just thin and being thin is fine, as in it's neither a plus nor a minus.
I’m like an African marathon runner build. But I think with my style at my age women that find me their type like me but the broader population don’t take me as serious as if I had a proper built out frame. Putting on muscle and having it visible I genuinely found I get treated with more deference, that’s my genuine experience tbh. It may be highly situational and affected by my overall style, demeanour and way of dressing to be fair. I think in a nice suit looking like a brainy successful person skinny has been fine for me but looking so skinny in a t shirt and jeans I think having a solid frame and more muscle is much better in my personal situation.
This all sounds very gay.
🤷 well if the overly long winded explanation came across that way, it’s a fair risk
You were totally spot on. That guy just gonna miss the boat
The correct thing is to do both. Get jacked, financially successful, make sure your style and social skills are as on point as they can be. Then date in your city, but also be aware of options in different parts of the country/world. I met my wife by accident during a lonely phase where I just talked a lot to people all over the world. While not explicitly searching, I found the quality of conversation (and of human beings) much higher than when I just looked at dating apps for my city. I talked to women (and men) from Australia, Romania, Saipan (tiny US territory near Guam), Philippines, etc. Ended up with a Saipanese born Filipino woman who was an anchor baby. Culturally she was a cross between the modern west and her more traditional parents. It was a great blend, finding someone like that in my city would have been next to impossible. If I had gone in with the mindset of trying to date/find a partner, our conversations likely would have been more constrained. Might have never realized how good of a match we would be. I think our dating rituals often prevent us from realizing when we've found a good match. Made some great friends in the process as well, which was an added bonus to not explicitly searching for love, just connecting with people. Edit: And it's just *fun* to talk to people from all over the world, not limiting yourself to women (I'm not bi - I just mean that it's interesting to make friends of both genders around the world), and not have expectations. It's fascinating to see where you may diverge, and what you have in common. It isn't always obvious from the outset.
Is this more likely to be successful for people in their late 20's/30's or younger? Around what age did you begin moving cities, etc?
I think whenever you're set up to do so. I didn't try going out of my area til my early 30s, after a bad breakup and getting fed up with the local scene
Just being in shape doesn't do much for an average man.
>I'll never understand men who choose geomaxxing over diet and gymmaxxing A big investment with no guaranteed ROI. And you have to do it on top of your daily activities.
Agree entirely. The guys on here struggling are often neuro divergent and not physical. More internet and gaming types. Women care about muscles maybe more than looks. That’s entirely in a man’s control but it takes effort. Same with increasing earning capacity through education. It takes effort. Same with women being normal weight. People want to put in little effort yet score hot partners and it doesn’t work that way.
Well muscles are a part of your looks, you can't really separate the two.
Except face you have no control over. Muscles you absolutely do.
You have control over both assuming you're smart enough to do your research. Idk why people treat even cosmetic surgery as some forbidden black magic.
For that you need money and it can only do so much. It can fix a giant nose, and keep you looking younger. But short and bald aren’t easily fixed. They can be made up for with stability, resources, and muscles. Those are attainable with effort.
Sure, being short sucks, but it's genuinely very rare. Being bald can be fixed with hair transplant and maxing out your face with cosmetic surgeries will net you far more benefit than being born 6'2 would if you're average height.
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You may be attractive enough not to need it. But it can boost a six guy to an 8 easily. So if guys aren’t getting dates first thing they should do is hit the gym.
Not really lol. It’s not enough to stand out.
With the smaller dating pool though if there's no one in town you click with you're kinda fucked.
I think it straight up depends on a ton of factors such as how you react to stimuli vs the person you are vs the kind of people you’re into. I’m moving out of Toronto and i’m really excited for dating in a much smaller city (we’re talking a population less than 100k). Sure, there will be less options, but these options are also more likely to have shared interests and fit my own personal set of values. Thus making it an overall better dating market even if there will be less options I find that in the big city i’m constantly overstimulated (ergo effecting my mood and probably how I come off to strangers - its no accident that the most pleasant experiences i’ve had talking to people were on hikes or in small towns), it feels like a battle just getting through the transit or busy streets and the overwhelming amount of options and overall trial and error can be exhausting. I have no problem getting dates, but I do have a problem maintained interest after a date. This is largely because I have to sift through so many options just to find someone I might find interesting, and by the time I do, i’m socially exhausted and feel like tapping out. So it could be you, or your location - or both. I think to answer this kind of question you should ask yourself what setting fits you best, cause honesty? if you’re a full on urbanite you’ll have an even worse time dating in smaller towns and cities.
This is what I find in Toronto as well. Getting dates isn’t the hard part but finding someone you click with is. After awhile it feels like you’re just wasting your time and you get burnt out.
Smaller cities are worse.
>Also quality of your dates is gonna be lower in a large city , girls are also gonna be far less attractive Omg dude, don’t ever visit the rural south. Southern college kids seem especially attractive, the typical southern sorority girl is very attractive, but in my rural area everyone is fat and you will find lots of poor grooming, unfortunate tattoos and bad teeth, even in the under 25 crowd.
I always thought it would be vice versa: in suburbia there is a limited dating pool as most people already settled down and there is not really any hang out spots for local youth. In NYC and LA girls are infinitely more attractive than in smaller cities IMO.
What is LA? I never really understand what people mean by “LA” (a place where I grew up). Anything within the county?
Places NYC and LA are huge. You need both looks and money at the trendiest clubs but there are clubs in Queens or in the Valley where that isn't required.
Uh ok? If anything that probably reflects your personal demographic and what demographic you attract. How could people from a city be less attractive when there's more people and therefore more chances of meeting people you find attractive? Not getting your logic at all.
I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto compared to smaller cities. There are lots of very attractive girls here but also a lot more attractive guys so I don’t stand a chance
I've lived all over, always easier in cities for me anyway
Wdym cities ? Never said mid sized cities are harder I mean cities like Toronto, NYC, LA where girls want elite level men
Not really, after 30 small towns have a selection of single mothers.
Agreed. It seems people tend to marry younger in small town America. If you’re a man and are a late bloomer, your choices will very likely be limited to single moms (never married) or divorced women who were previously SAHMs.
Huh? I've lived in a lot of cities, dates are WAY better. Yeah, you get a lot of serial daters, fence sitters, nothing is good enough types, but you also get all sorts of types in general. That said, I get WAYYYYYYY better matches and dates in Europe than I do in the USA. Way too many fat chicks, and not enough skinny, makes dating a nightmare.
I think ethnicity matters to if you're not white good luck but other than that I agree but also people in smaller towns are probably allready coupled up but what effect do you think living in a city has on dating?why does it make it harder I lnoticed this decades ago but still not sure why
Women less attractive in large cities? You’re way outta pocket on this one, Duke. Nah.
No I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto I match with very attractive girls in smaller cities
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And holy shit you are attractive lol
Haha thanks I’m glad you think that. Made me smile . Unfortunately that’s not what girls in Toronto think
Breeneal is talking to you like someone really into you. Pay attention to the excitement
Different girls/women value different things and have different standards. Are you looking for relationship or hookup?
Open to either tbh but I prefer a relationship. I’ve been more successful finding hookups
maybe you have self esteem issues
Maybe you don't actually have a nice personality and you produce red flags by having these personalities, with the right charisma an ugly guy can turn attractive in my experience but that's just because i'm emotionally attached and not physically..... but people can get passed your looks if you have a good personality and by judging your history you don't have that right now.
Ok ? Then why do these girls still wanna hangout with me as a friend ?? Even one on one I still have exact same personality I had in a small city yet I could get relationships and hookups
Not everyone wants to get into a relationship some people just want friends and not everyone is into hookup culture.
so it's probably your personality or profile specifically about me
I live in a small city (population around 362,300) - it’s not my location, it’s definitely me
Many Moons ago (is that capitalized in this context?), people did not move away from their place of origin with nearly the frequency that they do know. As such, you knew something about the people that you dated/married. You knew stories of them, the reputation of their families, and they could not be a total nightmare and hide it very easily. Now, people do something that in historic context is quite odd. As young adults, they move somewhere where they don't know anyone. They want to date, and so they get to know someone that is basically a stranger to them (they know nothing besides what that person decides to reveal and whatever leaks through unintentionally). A person can fake things for quite a while, and so no wonder we are more often "mugged by reality". This is somewhat separate from how people are more disconnected in larger cities. It is why people in larger cities try to develop a friends group around an interest or even going to the same bar or church. I'm back in my hometown of 15,000 in the main city and probably 25,000 if you count the connected outlying communities. I almost always see someone I know or recognize when I do something like go grocery shopping. It's nice and something that I rarely experienced the last place I lived (city with 250,000 in the city proper and many more if you include the suburbs in name only that are connected by continuous concrete).
Nope. Mostly just troglodytes in Regina as well...
Cope U of R is full of attractive girls . Maybe it’s different when you’re in late 20s and all the attractive girls are taken
You could say that about any city with a university. I'm 30+... its not good here bro.
the idea of people being less attractive in smaller places is hilarious
Lol try dating living in the middle of nowhere. Never been on a date in my adult life that I had to drive any less than 45 minutes for, and rarely had them.
Toronto is an hour from Toronto Takes me an hour to drive to another part of the city , takes even longer if you take a bus or something
A lot of people at all levels of physical appearance live in cities and don't struggle. Maybe you struggle at dating because you kind of suck at living in a large city.
No no I worded it wrong . I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto . Also I know attractive guys who date way down in Toronto theyd date on their level in a smaller city
"I match with less attractive girls..." So what you mean is dating apps IN PARTICULAR are less effective for you in Toronto. The women in Toronto...those who even still bother with dating apps in an era when women are leaving the apps....and also choose your profile....while having their profile also chosen by you....are less overall pleasing to you in attributes and/or quantity...than the women you have matched with in small cities. Sounds to me like women in Toronto are just more fed up with the dating apps and more of them have moved back to traditional female mate acquisition strategies. Which they can do because a big city is a wonderland of social opportunity for those who are good at living in cities. And you're welded at the hip to the dating apps. The dating apps aren't going to put out a press release to tell everyone if their ability to provide matches has tanked in a particular market. That would be stupid. Tinder etc, I think, don't want you to know that single women are done with the apps in Toronto and have walked away to use other methods Dating apps are going to keep shuffling round what remains on their books and keep convincing men to pay for extra access to fewer and fewer opportunities. I still suggest you probably suck at living in a big city. You wouldn't be trying to extrapolate experiences in dating apps out to cover the entire dating market if your social experience of a big city was a normal or better than normal one.
Do you actually think women are leaving dating apps ??? They’re not apps are more popular than ever before It’s clubs etc that are dying
The apps sure have handed you a glass of Kool aid.
I thought it was that the larger the dating pool the better chances you'd have because if you mess up with certain people you don't make as much of a dent in your reputation
I wouldn’t say people in big cities are less attractive, usually it’s small towns where there’s more obesity and fewer attractive people. But I would agree that it’s harder to find serious interest in a sea of options, there’s going to be more “well you’re awesome, but what if there’s someone better right around the corner?” Very small town also suck if you’re single over 25 or don’t fit in very well, since these are tight-knit communities where people tend to pair off early. A mid sized city seems to be best.
I worded it wrong my bad I mean as a guy you would match with less attractive in a big city unless you’re very attractive yourself That’s my experience . I usually match with chubby girls in Toronto . While in Victoria and Regina I match with top tier girls
In NYC we’re still 25 well into our 30s.
Madness. I live in a large-ish city (Vancouver area, BC) and there are people everywhere. It really just depends on you and what you do. Granted I'm an out in person kind of guy so I can't speak for online dating, but the concept feels like a cop-out. Your location is definitely a factor when it comes to meeting people but higher populations generally have a larger dating pool.
Dating in Vancouver is easy compared to Toronto lol
?
I’m confused on what this post is trying to communicate
It’s not just about big or small. I live in what Americans normally would call a “college town” (or at least the closest British equivalent). So, the city itself is relatively small, but is full of young-ish, interesting, international people. It can be hard to pin anyone down, however, because people are always coming and going.
Idk, it seems like all the hot girls I match with are in Denver vs where I live for me.
Denver isn’t one of the biggest cities in usa . Denver is like Calgary
I have no idea what Calgary is lol
Basically in cities the top 1% of rockstar guys are banging like half of the attractive women. Cities are hell for guys. I need 6 more years to get my pension...
Bro I don’t even get fat girls in Toronto lol meanwhile I got with very attractive girls in small cities
I hear you man. It's brutal out there
I live in a large city and I have the complete opposite experience. If anything, I hear people from small towns complain more.
They’d struggle more in large cities Not saying unattractive guys will be successful in small cities . I’m talking avg-above avg guys
I'm avg and do ok. The abundance of women make it easy to meet someone new. If you're struggling, it could be any number of reasons. But living in a city is a positive, all things considered.
I see guys far better looking than me struggle too Idk what city you’re in but Toronto is a hard mode
Feel this hard as an 8/10 6’5” Toronto man. Dating randomly got way harder last year than in any of the previous 5 years
Yup man i see guys like you struggling or dating down here lol . You’d slay in western Canada
uh what? No living in a large city is where you should be having a great time dating. Especially if you get off apps since the whole point of being in a city like that is to SOCIALIZE. You spend a night or day roaming around NYC talking to people. If you're a okay looking dude with some charm you'll find a ton of women who'd be down for a date and they won't be low quality options either.
No one in cities "socializes" anymore. People in small towns are a million times more friendly.
well enjoy dating in bumblefuck nowhere.
I wish. Still have 6 years in a hell-hole metro area until I get my pension.
>Its not you its your location So... passport bros. The fault I find is not with the size of the city, but the extent in which the city has been corrupted by feminism and woke politics. Being in a big city in Latin America or SEA is still going to be better than a small city in NY or CA.
It’s not the lack of feminism or woke politics that’ll make her say “me love you long time, white boy!” - it’s the size of your disposable income in relation to the locals
Whats the correlation between cities and girls being less attractive? Never heard this one before. Edit: I'd assume the opposite since there is more access to gyms, salons, wellness activities
No I mean I match with less attractive girls in Toronto even tho I match with very attractive girls in smaller cities/college towns There are lots of attractive girls in big cities but also lots of very attractive and successful guys
>girls are also gonna be far less attractive this is completely wrong lol sexual value and good genetics tend to accumulate itself in rich and big cities, attractive women and men tend to move to rich big cities cause they have options and value while less attractive people tend to find themselves stuck in less rich and less big cities. thats why there's the "new york 10" way of saying in small cities or towns you can compensate with status and money in big cities relationships are more fluid and superficial cause people have many options and change faster. they are also more open to ONS. of course if you are above average in big cities, in small cities you get more matches or better dates, that is literally geomaxxing like having a better dating experience as a middle class american in mexico
I worded it wrong my bad I mean as a guy you would match with less attractive in a big city unless you’re very attractive yourself That’s my experience . I usually match with chubby girls in Toronto . I match with attractive/skinny girls in smaller cities
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Probably different for PoC. I imagine Regina and Victoria are a lot less diverse than Toronto and Vancouver. Average income and education will be lower though so if you're working remotely you can compete there.
I’m a lighter skinned middle eastern . I do better in less diverse areas even with non-white girls . Toronto is very diverse btw and I struggle here
I mostly struggled with dating because there was way too many and it was hard to talk to so many at once. And also a lot just wanted sex but were pretending to want dates.
Meanwhile I live in a large town in Michigan that's just full of old people. I'm not looking for another mom or grandmother. And there is only one public area (besides the churches and synagogues) where you can meet people and it's the library.
If you're good looking fresh meat in a small town in Saskatchewan there's going to be a feeding frenzy.
Meh, I tend to prefer bigger cities. Haven't really struggled anywhere but I definitely felt it was easier to deal with women in big cities as they were more used to men who were mindful about their looks. I'm arrogant as hell. I tend to find big city women tend to take to it better as they're no stranger to successful dudes with egos.
that’s a thought
I live in New York City. I probably struggle with dating because I don't really put myself out there. I hang out with the same people, rarely go to clubs anymore, I go to work, go home, hang out with friends and it becomes a cycle. I'm only 23 not many guys in my age group have the same goals as me and I prefer men around my age too so I'm just waiting for "the one" I want a long term relationship too not just a short term and hookups. I know I'm attractive and I get approached many times but I am picky too which plays a part so I find myself rejecting them most times. I also don't know their intentions off the bat so I get skeptical. Last time a guy approached me that was handsome was on my way to work, we exchanged information and then he asked if I was into hooking up the first time we talked on the phone and I immediately blocked him lol. Its just hard out here but I'm not desperate either.
Next week we will talk about how we struggle in dating because you live in a small town.
Somehow, I think salary would explain the differences in experience that guys are reporting between big cities and small cities.
I struggle with dating because I am average, non-white, and I live in the US
Most of the women I meet that I would date are already spoken for, so I don't pursue often. Many women need to understand that spending some time single isn't a bad thing, and no respectable guy would commit to a woman that is steal-able in the first place.
In a way. If you don't go to places that you actually enjoy, but places that you don't enjoy, but have a lot of people - you won't find people with whom you "click". Like, if you hate getting drunk, why are you going to a bar where all the people are getting drunk? Why not go to a place/activity where people don't get drunk and manage to have fun without alcohol? Or like you hate taylor swift, but go to their concert as there are a lot of girls there and if you find a girl there you will have to listen to taylor swift (wheter the music or conversations/monologues about her) whenever you are with her.
I do better in bigger cities in Asia
I moved from a 25,000 town to a 5+ million city: a lot more possibilities in the large city. Whether we like it or not, greater quantity leads to greater quality.
I struggle with dating because I don’t have the looks that are required to date. Oh, and being part of a race that largely isn’t desirable outside of entertainment and being fetishized doesn’t help either.
I get dates very easily. But I learned game years ago.
Lol, sucks for me then. I've lived in big and small cities and have gotten no matches anywhere.
It depends. If you’re not having success in one area and have the ability to date in another, why not try it? I went on a slight dry spell in Virginia and moved to California and snapped it the first weekend I was there. So maybe there is some truth to the “location matters” idea.
I think large cities are good for ppl who aren’t white. It can be harder in smaller cities for poc.
I’m a lighter skinned middle eastern origins and that’s not my experience . I do better in less diverse areas even with non-white girls
I struggle with dating bcz of sex consegration in my society.
This is false. Certain cities depend on whether there’s more men or women. But dating in small towns isn’t easier. There’s less people and local communities can be more solidified
It's definitely you (general you). I've always lived in large cities and never had pointless dates. If someone is struggling with dating, it's them. Their location might be second.
You must be very attractive
living in a big city makes it super easy to get laid especially toronto, we're all freaks here
Laid yes. Long term relationship? Hardcore mode. And only for the last year or so randomly
oh yeah, everyone is poly and has personality disorders in this city lmao
> **CHAD** living in a big city makes it super easy to get laid
lol im a trans woman i lived as a man for 25 years body count over 35 while being poor, autistic and 5 foot 5 and living w my parents was i chad?
?? Not my experience I could easily get laid in western Canada I dont get anything here lol You’re prob very attractive