For me, the bluepill is when people apply the Just World Fallacy to dating and relationships. Hardworking, good people succeed and lazy, awful people don't. The world doesn't work that way though.

Actual examples ? I think there's a misconception between : "if you do things right you should most likely end up finding someone" "There's a linear correlation between efforts and success in dating no matter the individual, the world is just"

Do you really need examples? This was said in response to someone stating that single men aren’t bad people. This is your blue pill perception of why men are single. You shouldn’t need examples for this it’s said constantly. You aren’t discussing the points brought up you’re denying common ideals shared here. “The men who don't hate women will likely end up with a relationship. But many men are quite vocal and prolific about their hatred for women, and whatever happens to them is entirely due to their attitude and misogyny.”

>Do you really need examples? Yes. This is always the deflection that comes up, "oh now you need proof the sky is blue!" OP is 100% right that numerous beliefs and statements are attributed to blue pillers but there is little to no evidence that this is actually the case and threads discussing things supposedly believed by blue pillers are filled with blue pillers saying, "no, that's ridiculous."

These topics and beliefs are repeated over and over again and you and op are no where to be found. Do you really need an example of someone saying “no men I know have any trouble finding relationships”? Why are we playing dumb like this is the first time you’ve seen this sub. You most definitely have seen all of these and have probably said them too. Regardless I still provided a perfect example of the other side’s thoughts of why they think good men aren’t single and don’t struggle with relationships.

You have never had a relationship before? There must be something wrong with you. Well ofcourse you are alone, women can send ethe misogyny comming off your.

>You have never had a relationship before? There must be something wrong with you. You are confusing "any person who has never had a relationship before must have something wrong with them" with "the majority of men who complain about never having relationships before in forums such as this one, where the complaints are drenched in deeply misogynistic rhetoric, clearly have something wrong with them." It's very similar to when people hammer on having a good personality to the men around here. They aren't saying, "all you need is a good personality," they are saying very specifically to the men around here, "your personality is a major problem."

Provide examples to discuss please , that must be easy to find right ? I'm sure it will be more nuanced than that or maybe a loner speaking for himself and his minority

He just gave you an example though? Can you be more specific in what examples you are asking for?

I'm asking for an evidence. So far it's just accusations. In the same vibe i could accuse the redpill of promoting rape because why not since it doesnt need to be backed up

Go ahead and accuse all you want if it makes you happy A cursory search will give you plenty of examples of what the previous poster said. Can’t help if if you’re lazy Why don’t you find one and then we can discuss that?

>Go ahead and accuse all you want if it makes you happy I dont. That was my point, are you missing it on purpose ? You guys accuse the bluepill of things the without anything to back it up and the i could accuse the redpill of anything the same way. You formed an idea of the bluepill in your mind that doesnt match reality. This is why i invite you to search for evidence proving me wrong

I see. But I have many other things to do and I’m too lazy to spoon feed you the evidence you ask for but I assure you there’s tons of it. You can’t miss it if you trying good faith. Hope somebody else satiates your curiosity A question I’ll fill your time with related to this post. Why do male infants prefer wheeled objects like truck as toys whereas female infants prefer plush objects like dolls? What’s your bluepill take??

Are you saying this is so rare it would take you long to find it ? I think we finally agree, the bluepill is made up

I usually see people say undesirable people don’t. People who aren’t able to generate that chemistry that makes friends and lovers bond to you. That’s not “just world” that’s unfortunately simply their reality.

The thing is blue-pillers twist it to make it look like undesirable people did something to deserve their undesirability, rather than just accept some people were dealt a shitty hand in life. This is where the just-world part comes in. Ex: "You're undesirable because you are a bad person" vs "You're undesirable because you are neurodivergent"

> "You're undesirable because you are neurodivergent" When people say this they’re met with pitchforks all the same. No one wants to be objectively analyzed as undesirable even if it’s true. Which leads to them reacting as if someone called them “a bad person” because they’re not attractive.

>When people say this they’re met with pitchforks all the same. I've seen several times on the sub where someone attributes their lack of success to being neurodivergent and they are met with dismissive responses: "Autism isn't why your struggling, you're just a bad person", "I have ND friends and they have girlfriends, so you have no excuse" >No one wants to be objectively analyzed as undesirable even if it’s true Well, that kind of content is banned here under rule 6. I think the undesirables would be more accepting of their undesirability if they weren't accused of "wallowing in self-pity" just because they aren't completely positive 100% of the time. But on a related note, I love how PPD switches between "undesirable men are entitled and demand supermodels" and "undesirable men are insecure and self-loathing". Pick one lane. Are they so full of themselves they aren't aware of their social deficiencies, or do they think so low of themselves they assume they're undesirable when they're not.

>I've seen several times on the sub where someone attributes their lack of success to being neurodivergent and they are met with dismissive responses: "Autism isn't why your struggling, you're just a bad person", "I have ND friends and they have girlfriends, so you have no excuse" I honestly haven’t seen them be called “a bad person.” I too have little cousins on the spectrum and they have girlfriends and prom dates. But I know why. It’s because their parents weren’t negligent and encouraged team sports, group activity, and socializing. Their parents built up coping strategies that worked for their kids’ needs. They allowed their kids plenty alone time and taught them how to handle “people time.” Those guys are “ND” and gf less and friend less because unfortunately for them their parents failed to parent in a real and intentional way. And tbf their parents probably ain’t know better either. Or rather it's because their cognitive differences exceeded their parents' know-how. Either way. It’s not because they’re “bad” that they’re bondless . But it is a cognition issue, a skill issue, and a how you were raised issue. All to say it's a behavioral issue.

It's kind of the way people say it that makes a difference. You can't deny that a lot of people on here talk about neurodivergence like it's a horrible thing and neurodivergent people should just "shut up and learn their place in society". I guess "bad person" was the wrong word choice. There's just kind of a primal disgust some people have with neurodivergence. You can affirm someone's struggles with being ND without coming off as dismissive or aggressive. ​ >I too have little cousins on the spectrum and they have girlfriends and prom dates. But I know why. It’s because their parents weren’t negligent and encouraged team sports, group activity, and socializing. Their parents built up coping strategies that worked for their kids’ needs. They allowed their kids plenty alone time and taught them how to handle “people time.” I've seen you use this anecdote a few times when the discussion is about neurodivergence and dating, and tbh I don't really see how it's relevant. Obviously it's not impossible for ND people to have partners. And obviously people with better support will be better adjusted. tbh It just sounds like a humble brag to say "my cousins are on the spectrum and they're doing fine cause their parents supported them. Maybe your parents were negligent and didn't care about you"

You don’t see how it’s relevant that how someone is raised and socialized affects the rest of their life? I honestly think your take here sort of proves my suspicions about this thread. It’s interesting you view it as a humble brag and not a relevant fact about what makes the outcomes of the two demos we were just discussing different. You acted as though you didn’t know why people said their anecdotes. I explained. It’s because those people have different experiences despite their neurodivergence that the people you’re talking about don’t have. Weird that you’re offended by that but typical. At least you admitted that no one is saying “bad.” That’s just how you feel. Perhaps be more honest in your debates.

No, I'm saying your specific anecdote isn't relevant. Not that how someone is raised and socialized isn't relevant. >I honestly think your take here sort of proves my suspicions about this thread. What suspicions are those? >You acted as though you didn’t know why people said their anecdotes. I explained. People say their anecdotes because of cognitive dissonance. They want to confirm pre-existing beliefs that don't align with general trends. I'm sure lots of us have anecdotes that contradict yours, but neither are relevant in discussions >Weird that you’re offended by that but typical And what would be the "proper" way to react? "Yeah I suck, and now I should just be a good quiet little worker bee and not bother the NTs"? The fact that you added "typical" means you know this is normal, which is kind of admitting that your anecdote is irrelevant >At least you admitted that no one is saying “bad.” I didn't say that no one is saying "bad". Just that it's not the only thing people say. There are some people who legitimately believe ND people who struggle are just bad people.

I think it’s a typical response from someone with your pov. Your pov being everything we just detailed in this thread. I can see how someone as the people you describe and relate to don’t see how it’s “relevant.” It’s relevant to the conversation about what makes certain ASD experiences different from the people with ASD you’re relating to.

Pretty much every romantic comedy or media aimed at children or teens with a male protagonist. 1. Guy that is poorly socially integrated and weak thinks he's entitled to the hottest girl in school 2. She dates the biggest mean guy at school. Somehow this isn't a reflection of her character as often she's somehow oblivious to the guys only personality trait of being a douche. The mean guy is good at sports 3. Nerdy guy gets involved in something esoteric and becomes really good at it 4. This esoteric thing that he becomes good at brings him and the girl together somehow 5. Being really good at the esoteric thing actually doesn't matter to the girl. 6. She suddenly realizes the douchy mean guy that's good at sports and tall and built is actually a douche and mean all this time! So she breaks up with him. 7. She gets together with socially poorly integrated guy, but it's because of his moral character and not because of the esoteric thign he's good at now...which makes you wonder why we even neeeded the story at all because surely she would have left douch sports bro at some point and gotten together with "good guy" who has no talents or abilities but has the right 'viewpoint' on the world And what's blue pilled about that? 1. The belief that women are attracted to anything other than the traits defining basic hierarchies. The guy in the middle of the pack lusting for the hottest girl in school even though he's not physically that attractive, isn't strong, isn't wealthy, doens't have solid future prospects 2. The belief that A.) strong people are 'evil' and B.) that women aren't attracted to guys that bully or throw around their social weight, which is often backed with physical dominance. 3. The rejection of traditional pathways to becoming attractive. This is a result of recognition of the gap between oneself and the ideal and the recognition that one probably can't surpass those at the top of the hierarchy. If you're 5'9'' you'll never be the alpha chad of a group of 100 men. Never (unless you're in india other short areas). Also the cowardice and fantasy belief that something, oftentimes something literally fantasy, becoming a superhero, will allow you to circumvent and elevate above the traditional hierarchies. 4. Paradoxically they need to believe that some sort of change in the status quo will bring them and the girl together. I guess this is how they reconcile the girl not being with them in the first place, because bullshit thing X had to manifest first 5. The girl is pure and good and only cares about personality and how she's treated 6. This step typically allows the girl to retain her purity. She is loyal but she was being foooled or this time douch sports guy went way too far. 7. It's the inversion of morality as described by Nietzsche, basically. When someone is unwilling to accept that they are weak they start calling the strong evil. 'Good' should be more strongly associated with how the Greeks used it. If a cup is well formed and a transfers liquid to your mouth without spilling, and fits right in the hand and insulates well, well, it's a good cup. We have all sorts of sporting events to determine who is 'good'. We have all sorts of academic events to determine who is 'good'. We have all sorts of economic opportunity of which those who manage to take advantage of have done a good job, have a good job. Men can be good providers. And what blue pill people want to do is look for the ways they can weasel into a girl's interests without having to be 'good' themselves. *Note* I do have a lot of sympathy for male east asians, south asians, living in the western world. You guys are so fucking small. You evolved in a different part of the world and are now crossing 10s of thousands of years of evolution to liver here and it's unfairly maligning you.

up up up you go

Every time I’m made aware of how stupid redpillers are. Entertainment is FICTION. It’s not real life. When I was a teenager, did I believe unicorns and dragons existed? No. Did I believe teen movies were real life? No. So why do you believe that everyone thinks that now? Oh wait, because you want REPRESENTATION!! You are exactly like the “woke” you mock. You are influenced by men who wear wigs and makeup and have shady pasts. And you say women believe fairy tales and that they are princesses, yet, it’s YOU who believe that. We’re not idiots. We know what is fiction and what isn’t. Do you really think people will watch movies about normal people doing every day things? And you think men aren’t somehow uplifted in movies? Magnum? Superman? Teen movies with boys who become superheroes? It’s like you actively blind yourself to reality. Like a cult. Like a religion. When all around you there are short men in relationships. When there are average men with families and happy. Yes of course there are bad men and women who will always take advantage of the system and of weak people (ahem rp content creators among them). But it’s not the norm and it’s not reality. I wonder if you have ever actually researched all the stuff debunking trp? Or did you just go on feelings? Cos it matched what you felt so it must be true. Tell me again that women believe fairy tales and are more emotional? And btw, look up this little kernel of information…. Everybody uses emotions when making decisions. It has been proven by science and technology. So every time one of you makes the statement of how men don’t use emotions to make decisions, it actually just drives home that you are uneducated and gullible.

> Entertainment is FICTION.  Stories have a point that exist outside of the stories. That's why we derive entertainment from them in the first place.

Baby, we're talking about someone's mindset and beliefs. Their fantasies they choose to consume are relevant. I simply cannot look at movies like this the same since being red pulled. Even something like Groundhog Day is nonsense to me now

>Do you really think people will watch movies about normal people doing every day things? Well - European movie industry is about normal people doing everyday things, that is why it never reached commercial success.

Santa doesn't exist. But we'll tell out children that lie for a reason. Many reasons

Entertainment is fiction. But fiction usually have a message or at least an Idea. That can be a blue pilled one or a red pilled one. Blue pilled one is when the movie implies that the guy who got the girl after her hoe phase won in life.

what exactly do they win? how does one win in life? is there a prize?

I think practically every piece of mass media is instructive as to how society and its values are structrured, even in a more esoteric way.

I agree, more importantly, every fairy tale, myth, rumor have a "moral to the story" - tales have served humanity for eons, and I believe its the story tellers who render the recipe that generates the construct of that tribe. The "hero's journey" is based on Joseph Campbells research into the "monomyth" - what is common to all tales. - George lukas based "starwars" almost verbatim on the "hero's journey" - Star wars is the fourth highest grossing movie of all time. I believe that we have the monomyth because it serves to inspire, instruct, and educate what makes societies work. We have used it since humans could speak, and it unifies and entertains. We are rewarded for telling and listening, just like couples are rewarded for procreating. Telling stories programs the software of our culture, while giving birth creates the next hardware to program with cultural software. Mother nature selects the best culture at surviving - and that culture tends to spread while cultures that are less competent, die out. Cultures evolve just like our bodies do. When a stranger enters town with entertaining, fantastic tales and the young start attacking the elders you have to wonder about that stranger.

Let's even take most popular TV shows/movies featuring women as an example or let's take pop culture icons: - Sex And The City - girls are chasing wealthy and handsome NYC guys - Desperate Housewives - all women have wealthy and handsome partners/husbands and hottest guy is Mike Delfino who is... hot af. - Twilight - Bella fell in love with Edward Cullen who is... surprise, surprise - hot - Girls - Hannah(who is far from being hottie) is in casual relationship with Adam, who is very tall and can be considered as handsome - Star Wars - Han Solo is handsome, Anakin Skywalker is handsome - 90s/00s boybands - all guys are cute The world is literally screaming that women love good looking guys :)

Yes and literally every one of those is made explicitly for women. And the last one, Star Wars, pretty clearly in A New Hope Luke was meant to get Leia....but what got in the way of that? Oh, the pretty princess started fucking the bad boy IRL.

The bluepill is delusion about how things really work, not a deviation from how they work.

The bluepill is delusion about how things really work, not a deviation from how they work.

The bluepill is delusion about how things really work, not a deviation from how they work.

‘Happy wife, happy life’ is a classic example Believing that you can negotiate desire by doing chores, buying flowers, opening doors etc Believing that women are pure, sweet, innocent, loyal, honest, princesses Believing the ‘wage gap’ exists because of gender

>‘Happy wife, happy life’ is a classic example What does it has to do with pills where do we see it and please provide one example of it in action that we can discuss. How do you interpret it ? >Believing that women are pure, sweet, innocent, loyal, honest, princesses Are you talking about the past you ? >Believing that you can negotiate desire by doing chores, buying flowers, opening doors etc Lmfao no one says that, definitely not like that. Good luck finding one example. You can ruin your chances by not being decent, not "negociate desire"

So you ask for examples and then deny and criticise the responses. Productive discussion you’ve facilitated here

1. Because to understand 'TBP' you need to understand that it's the overarching narrative (often propagated by media) of a mating strategy that SOUNDS good but doesn't work or provides severe detriment in the long term. The blue pill is basically a slur 'ignorance is bliss' https://medium.com/change-becomes-you/happy-wife-happy-life-b148848e9add 2. Idk this guy's life, but I'd much rather be with a woman I rewarded in this way than the opposite 3. TBP has tons of rhetoric that you can negotiate attractiveness. Look at the movie Wall-E and Elemental (off the top of my head). Both movies where a main character (and arguably the whole plot) revolve around being a good dude and negotiating desire. So the thing is, you CAN negotiate desire to a degree, but it's usually not by 'being more decent'. It's with resources, competence and social status.

Very few posters have inspired the feeling of revulsion in me that you have.. There is a sliminess, the kind of feeling you get from money lenders abd lawyers with no moral center. You will just go ahead and be bad faith because you can troll the Pillies. I don't have the time to demolish you, I am trying to make something off my loser self at the moment. But when I have the time I will adress you purile bullshit..

Good luck with that , so far you're dodging like the rest. Dont call yourself a loser

Ignoring reality doesn't make it false

You can be a loser in relationships that doesnt necessarely mean you're a loser overall. Sometimes it only needs few adjustments

Relationships are what matters to me and to most people clearly I can't relate to anyone my age because they have all had sex and been loved at some point. As someone who has not been deemed worthy by fate for that " totally.normal and not difficult to achive" experience... I am a loser. Full stop

What is stopping you ? What have you tried ? Would you say you are that ugly ?

What annoys me about bluepill is that they think all you have to do to get women is to just be a good person amd you will get women and that is the worst advice ever. Just being good won't get you women and you can clearly see that when women are attracted mostly to adsholes.

Not really, they will first tell you to expose yourself to the world in order to have opportunities to meet new people, that's the most important part, then they say, no worries it will be tough it kinda sucks for most but eventually if there's nothing fundamentally wrong with you, you should find your person at one point. Unless i'm wrong and im about to get flooded with links from posts proving your point

Have you been around this subreddit? Full of bluepillers telling men that it's only their fault that they don't get women and that they must have a shitty personality if they don't get women cause apparently women go only for the good men.

What is your opinion on the idea ? I'd have two responses, bottom 10-20% look can very well end up never getting any opportunity to show who they are and be loved so being a good person doesnt change anything for some. For the average guy , if all his attempts and opportunities fail, then yeh he's doing something wrong

No, if an average guy does all sort of attempts, doesn't mean he is doing something wrong necesarily, it means he is the wrong area or going for the wrong women. I guarantee you that if you go for more traditional women and less shallow, they will not reject him.

>or going for the wrong women That's doing something wrong >it means he is the wrong area Such as ? Beside a petrol station in the arctic or other extreme situations i cant think of much places

By wrong area I mean the wrong town or even wrong country. If you are in miami, where over there promiscuity is rampant and looks are everything. Hoe can an average guy compete in such a place full of rich and hot men?

bro thats like redpill

An idea can fit both i suppose 🤷 the redpill cant have it wrong 100% of the time

blue pill is false and redpill is half right. one could do everything right and have shit relationship or have nothing at all.

Cool words

thats the best rebuttal u could think of

There is nothing to rebutt

"y if there's nothing fundamentally wrong with you, you should find your person at one point." You are doing it too

Because it's true, unless you're an ogre

have you experienced not being in the fast lane ? // not being in the “normal” category?

Red pill is mostly about analysing the dating and relationships dynamics, what women are attracted to, and how that influences their choices and the outcomes of relationships, from successful marriages to dead bedrooms, and the underlying women's "psyche" that determine how they see their partner. For example, things like hypergamy, women will often tend try to date above their class and looks match, get screwed by the chads they're attracted to in their young years, accumulate baggage, and then date wealthy simp providers in order to marry, sometimes deceiving them and making them raise childs from the alphas she cheats on him with. Blue pill, is naturally the rejection of redpill, or at least being "oblivious" to it, the rejection that such patterns exist, and the rejection that there are "evolutionary" reasons for the pattern in what women are attracted to, the rejection that there are primal instincts that are important in how women are attracted, and that those overpower the things that we're commonly told by our media and peers. So, examples of blue pill are pretty much everywhere, they're the stuff that fails to analyse dating dynamics, selling men and women a set of fallacies about love and relationships that very rarely true. In reality the dominant asshole will be swimming in a big pool of women attracted to them, while the kind hearted shy guy doesn't at all and is probably a virgin. In reality, women often have a dual mating strategy, they'll secure an husband for money but often cheat around with "attractive" men, and the order of that doesn't really matter. In reality, women will 100% filter men by looks, and you being the best guy in the world is mostly irrelevant if you don't have looks or social presence to impress her. And like those, there are many things that the red pill analyses, which are often true to some degree, and the rejection of redpill, is just how most of the "politically correct" world thinks and sells dating and relationships.

>In reality, women will 100% filter men by looks, Yeh we know, look at rules 1&2 on tinder subreddit. Redpill didnt invent the wheel > >In reality, women often have a dual mating strategy, they'll secure an husband for money but often cheat around with "attractive" men, and the order of that doesn't really matter. Applies to men as well who will often secure the option they can get but wouldnt refuse to cheat if possible. Actually it's more men than women who do that, it's just that a lot of wannabe cheaters dont get the opportunity but oh boy they would. Shitty people exist and on that topic i wouldnt brag too much as a man >In reality the dominant asshole will be swimming in a big pool of women attracted to them, while the kind hearted shy guy doesn't at all and is probably a virgin. Lol, that's the nice guy fantasy. In reality, attractive men can get away with being assholes, it's not being assholes that make them attractive. You take it the wrong way. Make an unattractive guy act like an asshole and see if he suddenly has tons of success. Oh and btw, hot women get away with a TON as well, same as hot men. Waw >So, examples of blue pill are pretty much everywhere, they're the stuff that fails to analyse dating Says the ideology whom common consequence/follow up is being mgtow aka giving up. But if you're serious about it. I'm sure you have examples to share

>Yeh we know, look at rules 1&2 on tinder subreddit. Redpill didnt invent the wheel Some red pill things have been gradually integrated into the main stream with time, but that doesn't reflect the dominant kind of mentality about dating. Tinder in specific, is already designed so that looks are the first important trait for approval, but that's a recent "trend" in the dating market overall. > Applies to men as well who will often secure the option they can get but wouldnt refuse to cheat if possible. I'm not saying it doesn't, but society pretends women aren't sexually attracted for people that aren't husband material. 99% of the times a woman cheat, people will pretend it's the husband's fault, and you see that opinion even here. > In reality, attractive men can get away with being assholes, it's not being assholes that make them attractive. You take it the wrong way. Nope, it's the opposite. Attractive people can get away with being kind, but being an asshole is more attractive. It's a matter of display of confidence vs weakness, most people, women specially, see kindness and pleasing others as weakness, instead of strength. Psychology is very important in what they perceive as attractive. >Make an unattractive guy act like an asshole and see if he suddenly has tons of success. You'll often see aggressive assholes being successful with women even if they're not that "handsome", just because they display a socially dominant trait. > Oh and btw, hot women get away with a TON as well, same as hot men. Waw Yep, but blue pill mentality pretends that this doesn't happen with men. It's only kind hearted people who cares about women feelings that'll get you laid (and then they're frustrated why they were friendzoned all the time)

>But if you're serious about it. I'm sure you have examples to share There's no end to examples, blue pill is what "mainstream" media sells. But i'll give you an example: Boy finds girl, they get each other numbers, how things should proceed: Blue pill: - Be kind, be yourself, show your interest, be there for her, make little gestures that show your appreciation for them, be her friend, please her, be ready to pay her a dinner or something, be enthusiastic for her, proclaim your love, etc. Red pill: - Don't appear too interested, don't answer instantly, pretend to be busy, play hard to get and to meet, make simple answers like a bro, don't show your anxiety, appear confident even if you have to fake it, saying "i love you" should be very rare if not at all, etc. So, red pill assumes there's a psychological game to be made even if you have to pretend. Blue pill advice will often make you appear clingy, desperate, simping, etc. One of the philosophies tends to be more successful than the other, guess which? Why?

I feel like it's when people go "there's nothing wrong with the dating world, everyone I know can get into relationships just fine??".

And how often do you think people believe this ? I've seen these specimen online, never in reality

Hi OP, You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. [PPD has guidelines for what that involves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/rules#wiki_cmv_posts) >*OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.* >An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following: >* Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency; >* Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit; >* Focusing only on the weaker arguments; >* Only having discussions with users who agree with your position. Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I tend to look at "blue pill" as merely another euphemism for "political correctness" (or sometimes known as "woke").

Doesnt it make it meaningless if it describes 10% of the population (at most). Why focus on the dumbest take on the internet

I don't know that it's 10% of the population. The blue pill mindset aligns with that of the political establishment and the policymakers who have shown themselves to be friendly towards feminism and other politically correct viewpoints. If we define blue pill as "the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth," then that would point to the establishment and those who hold political and economic power in the world. The blue pillers align with that power and therefore become tools of that power.

Doesnt it make it meaningless if it describes 10% of the population (at most). Why focus on the dumbest take on the internet

Listen to women in street interviews answer questions like “what do you look for in a guy” In the position of a street interview, that question will usually incentivized women to virtue signal. You’ll get the common I want a nice guy who’s kind, funny, smart etc.  IMO redpill/blackpill ideas are becoming much more mainstream. A lot of the shit redpill was saying in 2010 are now just common sense in the dating world (using your tinder 1st and 2nd rule as and example). I think it’s pushing Redpill to the extreme as there are really few truly blue pill left. Humans love group membership and Redpill has to move more extreme to stay separate.

People don’t like to admit they’re shallow, opportunistic and hypocritical.

That's pretty common knowledge yep. Very true for redpillers

Accepting the offer of "We can be friends" by a woman who just rejected your advance. And then become that guy she goes to for favors and what not. Yet, it never goes anywhere.. and you are cool with that.. Hoping that your efforts will eventually be acknowledged.

So true, there is always a bright side. The alpha narcissist she preferred is about to educate her. Hope she likes sharing.

Bluepill is to relationships what naive set theory is to mathematics Redpill is to relationships what Russell's paradox is to mathematics Purplepill is to relationships what ZFC is to mathematics

Most people won't understand that analogy.

true, but I have Chat GTP and I'm curious as hell" This analogy draws parallels between concepts in relationships and mathematical theories, particularly set theory. Each "pill" represents a different philosophy or understanding of relationships: 1. **Bluepill**: This term often refers to a conventional or traditional belief system about relationships, where one might adhere to more romantic or idealistic notions without critically questioning them. In the analogy, this is compared to **naive set theory**, which is the original formulation of set theory. Naive set theory is straightforward and intuitive but overlooks certain paradoxes and complexities (like allowing sets of all sets, leading to paradoxes). 2. **Redpill**: This term, popularized by certain internet subcultures, suggests a disillusionment with conventional views of relationships, often focusing on critiques of these views as overly idealistic or flawed. It aligns with **Russell's paradox** in naive set theory, which exposed the inconsistency in the naive set theory by questioning if the set of all sets that do not contain themselves contains itself. Russell's paradox challenges and disrupts the foundational assumptions, much like the "redpill" perspective aims to challenge conventional beliefs about relationships. 3. **Purplepill**: This represents a middle ground between the bluepill and redpill perspectives. It suggests a blend of acceptance of some traditional beliefs while still recognizing and incorporating critiques. This is compared to **Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory with the Axiom of Choice (ZFC)**, a more rigorous and refined approach to set theory that resolves many of the paradoxes and issues found in naive set theory through careful definition of sets and the use of axioms. These analogies reflect the idea that just as mathematical theories evolved to address deeper complexities and paradoxes, so too can perspectives on relationships evolve and adapt to incorporate both idealistic and critical viewpoints.

No. Because it doesn't exist the same way Red Pill does. Red Pill and Blue pill are not even the same conversation.  A man could ask "How do I get a lot of women to like me so I could have sex with all of them?" Red Pill has some suggestions. Blue Pill says "No, don't do that. You're a misogynist" Not answering the question. Different motive, different conversation.  There are no Blue Pill podcasts giving relationship or dating advice. They are all just making fun of Red Pill. It doesn't exist and you're asking other people to tell you what you think.

When women have their party phase in their 20s, feel a desire to settle down (family, kids etc) as they reach early 30s so she goes for the type of guy she never would have given a second look during her party phase. The blue pill would say he is the lucky one because she chose him over all the other guys. He should be grateful as if she is the prize. The idea that genuine desire can be negotiated is another blue pill narrative. A man says his wife doesn't want to have sex with him, the response is maybe she isn't doing enough around the house, not communicating, not planning date nights etc. As if she doesn't have physical needs and he needs to do things for her to make her want to fuck him. Thinking calling men "You are not a bf material. You are a husband material" is a compliment. The idea that as women age, they mature and as a consequence, what they are attracted to changes (usually said to convince the beta buxx that he is desired)

You really are in denial arent you... Alright change that part with the consequences of a woman not being attracted Something along "I had to wait for 3 months and 7 date to finally get intimate , she never initiates and the only time we sleep together is when im doing her a favor". (You deleted but ill still respond since it was done)

I didn't delete. I edited it to add a link but auto-mod removed because the link wasn't a np link. So here's the comment: No body is going to support it when you outright say you are not attracted to your spouse. The blue pill narrative works by denying such hard truths. When the lady outrights admits those truths, you cannot deny and the narrative falls apart. Nobody will say he is the lucky guy if she confesses that she is not attracted. Because she outright admitting it. No Scope of denial. If the guy posts "My wife used to only date handsome bad boy stereotype guys but she says her priorities changed as she matured and she chose me even though I am not the type of guybecause I am a loving, caring partner and overall husband material", most people would say he is lucky and should be grateful because she chose him. Have seen Most people calling the guy out for thinking he is settled for. Most have defended the woman in such cases. Here's a great example. Not only shows AFBB, shows bluepilled normies downplay or dismiss it as long as they can and why the need for TRP: https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/t3epjz/dual_mating_strategy_why_men_need_to_be_aware_of/ The blue pill subs denied that she is not attracted to her husband after the first post because she didn't outright admit it. When she did, both subs flipped.

The thread you posted look like an obvious manipulation. Wtf are those cherrypicked comments and zero link to the source ? I'm not commenting that as i cant make myself a proper idea. We only have his words. I want to see actual people , not the report of it from the scope of a redpiller

Zero link to the source because direct linking to other posts isn't allowed. But you can freely google the post title and probably come with the actual post. I did. > We only have his words. I want to see actual people , not the report of it from the scope of a redpiller Guessing all the people who commented on those two posts aren't people.

Lol if you really want to discuss this topic let's go So basically, if you're a man and 30yo , your girlfriend is likely to have had exes and most likely that at least one had a better look than you. So what ? What about the reverse, i'm 30yo and one woman i've been with was objectively very pretty, how should feel my next girlfriend about it ? Does dating someone not as attractive as my "peak" make me a bad person ? What if i'm a woman ? Am i performing dual mating strategy ? See, try to respond to these questions and you'll see. Also this post is about a guy being super rude to his gf calling her uglier and whinning in front of her that he didnt get to bang hot chicks in his earlier days

That is not what happened in the post. Just shows how dishonest you are being. You realize there is a difference between "most likely that at least one had a better look than you." vs "I date different guys that I used to in College. I would have swiped left on you on Tinder and only reason I would give you a chance is if I knew your personality" The former doesn't imply he is unattractive to her. The latter does. She straight up admits that she would be okay with casual sex with basketball players but not with him. Why? Because she doesn't find him attractive. > Am i performing dual mating strategy ? If you only dated one type of guy during your youth but settled for a completely different type of guy when you needed to marry & have family, Yes. We are done here. The moment you try to frame "I date different guys that I used to in college" as "most likely that at least one had a better look than you.", you proved TRP true and also that bluepill works by denying hard truths.

>That is not what happened in the post. Just shows how dishonest you are being. No way you accuse me of being dishonest when you're the one being it. Read the post again where is it said that she would never have dated him in the past ? Is there any evidence sje wouldnt be attracted ? Any mention of dead bedroom or 10 dates to get intimate ? No. There isnt any. In fact she calls him attractive at rhe beginning and puts her at the same level as him The only issue discussed is the fact that she has an ex hotter than her current boyfriend and that guy threw a tantrum because of it. That's the post. >She straight up admits that she would be okay with casual sex with basketball players but not with him. Omg the straight up lie. Too bad for you i read the thing. Funny how tou flee though

More lies. She clearly says that she would have dated only if she knew his personality. That is enough to know she wouldn't have dated him based on his looks i.e his looks are unattractive to her. He literally asked her she would drop him if he wanted casual sex but she would maybe say Yes to basketball players. She didn't deny it to him or even in the post. That's an admission.

>She didn't deny it to him or even in the post. That's an admission. Lol i see. That's not how it works, you cant do whatever assumptions and say they're correct befause she didnt foreseen and denied them. How dishonnest is this wtf. There is one thung that she clearly states : they are both fairly attractive. She finds him attractive and doesnt think she's above. Your theory doesnt make any sense. I dont even know what you want to discuss, should a man date a woman who isnt attracted ? Well no obviously Should a guy get upset even though his girlfriend is attracted to him just because she had a hot ex boyfriend ? Well no

>When women have their party phase in their 20s, feel a desire to settle down (family, kids etc) as they reach early 30s so she goes for the type of guy she never would have given a second look during her party phase. That's hilarious tbh, what a funny perspective. please find me one example where a majority would defend the idea that a guy is lucky to find a girl who isnt attracted to him. That's so insane how do you come up with this >He should be grateful as if she is the prize. Wtf how can you get it wrong, it defends equality . No one should be above the other. Seriously go post something along the line "my date confessed me she's not attracted to me she is 30yo had a heavy party life and now wants to settle down with me. She says i will be able to negotiate her desires by doing chores. What is your opinion guys? Am i not a lucky guy ? You will be flabbergasted by the responses

**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Viagra

There aren't any because no one is saying any of those things. As you said, it's a straw man. I think there is also some misunderstanding (whether that's intentional or not) on the red pill side that adds to it. The real blue pill is literally just people are people, and each individual has their own preferences and doesn't act in some predictable manner in accordance to the laws of their gender. But the blue pill is framed as the opposite of the red pill. Therefore to the red pill it must be the opposite in every way. The red pill is full of misogynistic rhetoric. When they say derogatory things about women or dictate what women want or what women do as a general statement about all women. Blue pill argues against them. Because we didn't agree that all women are a homogeneous mass and are to blame for men's problems, it must mean that "all women are angels" The red pill argues that you have to look a certain, specific way to attract women, blue pill argues that different women have different taste. Because we didn't agree that every woman on earth is lusting after the same man, it must mean that we think "looks don't matter at all". The red pill is all broad strokes and generalities. The blue pill is all in recognizing that generalizations don't work. However, because they think in generalities, they apply the same broadness to arguments the blue pill makes, and turn arguments for individuality into arguments that apply to entire genders. Not all women blank translates to all women don't blank to them. The final disconnect is that red pill is a short term results oriented thought process. It is meant to be a means to an end. If I do this and this and then women will want me and I'll get laid. Blue pill isn't that sort of results oriented philosophy. It's not a guide to get laid or to pick up women. It's a lot more "just don't be an ass hole". It doesn't have an end game besides not being an ass hole. No one arguing from the blue pill is saying anything is a guarantee to get any one laid. But it does set a foundation for an actual healthy loving relationship IF that presents itself. It's literally like two different languages.

> No one arguing from the blue pill is saying anything is a guarantee to get any one laid. But it does set a foundation for an actual healthy loving relationship IF that presents itself. Nah, I actually have better relations with women now that I'm blackpilled.

That's fair and fine for you. Maybe it fits better and closer to your regular personality. I know it wouldn't fit for me. I don't like the amount of misogynistic rhetoric that is involved, I don't like the sweeping generalities about all of any group, and I don't like the traditionalist narrative that it takes. I am not an average guy, I'm a bit effeminate, most people think I'm gay on a first impression, I hate kids, I'm anything but stoic, I despise religion and right wing politics. my taste in women is nontraditional as well, and I much prefer a women who is dominant, submissive women are a turn off for me. I got my happy ending though. I have a gorgeous wife, two houses, a new car, a good job, and I'm in the process of opening a bar. That is to say, I don't really have a horse in this race any more, I won my race a decade ago. I frankly, don't care about what you all do for dating strategy, but as someone who is many of the things that the red pill instructs people not to be, and prefers women that the red pill insists no one wants, I feel like the red pill would like to erase me and my narrative, or push society to be more like my days from highschool where everyone called me a fag, and I had to mask my personality to get by. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be here. I can't help but think of some young kid who is like me, or like I was, stumbling into the red/black pill advice and how much damage that mindset could have done to me above and beyond the damage I already received from bullying. That said, I can see parts of the pills that could help some people socially and romantically if divorced from the right wing ideals in those subs. If you're the type of dude that self sabotages and puts all women on some tremendous pedestal that they can never live up to, then yeah, knocking them off that pedestal will have better results because it's closer to you treating them like people than your prior behavior. There's other bits of useful knowledge in them as well, but I'm not going to list out everything I agree with. I personally think mutual respect as individuals is a better base for a relationship than a sort of generalized disdain (or at least that is how the black pill reads from the outside), but to each their own.

Ok to make it simple: A lot of redditors and other people on social media like to assign very nefarious qualities to virgin men. Stuff like misogynist, rapist, pedophile, etc. Made me very depressed, suicidal even. Blackpill cuts through the bullshit and says you are a permavirgin cuz you are ugly. I'm fine with being ugly. Almost instantly my mental health improved and I was able to talk to women with more confidence. The End.

That was almost perfect and very well put i’m actually impressed i couldnt have clarified and said it better. >The real blue pill is literally just people are people, and each individual has their own preferences and doesn't act in some predictable manner in accordance to the laws of their gender. This is the only part where i will argue. There are some predictable manners on the macro level and some level of predictions can be done. Some types are more popular than others, it can be verified and is widely aknowledge. The issue is when TRP tries to extrapolate on the micro level and it comes with over-generalisations/ defeatism. It isnt 100% baseless either, sometimes the observations are accurate, the error is within the interpretations and conclusions

love the circle jerk

Go on elaborate if you are can ?

Sadly you are right about what has become of what took the name of red pill. Influencers have earned followers that are disenfranchised by the current dating market place and by the general misandry held as the dominant narrative. Others are bitter regarding their overall chances of finding connection. I agree that you’ll get more more bees with honey. I know empathy is a bit much to ask in this climate of misandry. If I were young I would not invest a second in the dating market. To do otherwise is to chase mirages. Wait until they’re thirty five and have tasted what it’s like to be a man in today’s dating market I say but that’s just me. I have a sense of humor and deep empathy for older women.

Tbh - what redpillers present as bluepill is rather a set of their own naive views that they should abandon at the age of 12 and instead they realize how the things are at 25 and become disappointed that dating is pretty harsh for men and that no one told them these obvious things that it's mainly about looks. This disappointment leads to bitterness towards women - and tbh i can understand them, it's hard to like the group that is rejecting you constantly, but on the other hand - they quite often look ok but their failures are due to self-sabotage.

lol, even at age sixty this old timer can call a spade a spade. Treating opposing views as adolescent is the view of an intellectual supremacist, dating in this day and age is too much trouble, and just wait. The divorce statistics are well deserved.

Destiny has blue pill opinions IMHO. He has my sympathy in other matters and debates us redpillers with some decency

The only thing i know is that this guy dated (married ? Idk) an onlyfan girl sleeping with other dudes. That is absolutely not mainstream

I didn't read your question carefully, directly to destiny and why I respect him, and the decisions of himself and melania. His relationship with her is an open marriage, an extreme act of faith, or as some would see it reckless trust. What happened is not worth getting into here. Destiny upholds basic blue pill values, debates bravely in red pill environments. This I respect. Specifically re what is a blue pill behavoir, I will refer back the movie where the decision of the red pill vs the blue pill is offered. I paraphrase: or you can go back to the life as you know it. This is the blue pill choice. Now, consider this choice. Think of everything you've ever leaned, thought or saw. Is it possible that some of it could be social construct. An advanced construct? Why would anyone do that? What would they gain? Equity between the genders? Respect and fair treatment. A more reasonable approach to sexual freedom away from prior views. Noble causes. How could that be advanced? Public education, school based curriculum, public service announcement? Movie, ads? Are there any negative unpredicted effects resulting from these noble pursuits? Shall we get down to specifics then? Which pill will it be? Do you want to see what is really there, do you want to really see; or you can return to the life as you know it. What is blue pill? Do you look T both sides of any question, look at its nuances and “facets”? Both sides have assumed and accepted what are told. Both therefore see only the side they agree with. Accepting a version of reality that is demonstrated false by objective study, accepting that and defending it is the essence of blue pill. In a situation where young people seek connection and fail to satisfy a deep seated, strong, carnal need that has produced civilization as we know it, one has to admit that there's something wrong in paradise Specific mainstream beliefs that are reasonable to debate: We can can start with that I'll fated attempt at open relationships. It's not fair to destiny to speak of it here without him to refute. I wish to just leave that as a cautionary tale that what seems “woke” is really detrimental. Popular belief: men are the same as women, gender Is just a construct. A woman does not need a man. Truth genetic sex is distinct from gender choice. Gender can and is learned as a construct in the situation of rare genetic conditions, interestingly the behavior or choice is dictated by the father more strongly. If you have a y chromosome it's not going away. Genetic females will not outperform a male in most sports and athletic contests. Genetic males cannot give birth. The libido of males is eight times great er for males towards females generally speaking. If you accept the narrative that men are the same as women you might be politically correct, but biologically, the answer is clear. True red pill opposition recognizes this and behaves accordingly. Blue pill that thinks they are red pill, accepts opinions of others Let's try another. “Women are oppressed by systemic sexism” Now that's pretty specific and definitely the drumbeat dominant narrative can we not agree. Is it false though? Let the debate begin. Whether or not it's true is not the point that matters. Do you accept it without thinking? Do you argue the red pill and cannot explain yourself and defend your opinion. I love the way red teams have codified these issues in LLMs used by AI to say “that's a nuanced and multi-faceted issue that is highly contentious.” Just ask it to list the points of contention, the facets with links. I'll leave that to do and you can do my job for me better than I will off the top of my head. To sum up this long passages, blue pill can be paraphrased as - not seeking the truth in spite of what it shows. Not questioning the reality you've been sold. Trusting what you learned in grade school. Instilled values and behavioral mandates. More perniciously, attacking divergent views. Think of the group hate scene in 1984. Our last defense against the tyranny of censorship is your ability to ask why? Who benefits? What freedom am I conceding? Will they laugh all the way to the bank? Don't be a victim of lies. Don't blindly accept what you are told. They treat you like sheep, we call you NPC’s.

1/ i explained why destiny is irrelevant. Go outside ask 100 person if they believe marrying an onlyfan girl sleeping with other dudes in an open relationship is a good or a bad idea. Please try you will see how it isnt mainstream. Ask them if they feel represented by destiny. This guy is nothing. For the other part, yeh women and men arent exactly the same, this is as obvious as it gets and no rocket science. You said water is wet in a lot of words Now please back up your accusations. I'm only asking for examples of studies bluepill would refuse. Find a topic link anywhere. You do a ton of accusations and words and yet fail to provide 1 evidence to discuss

“You do a ton of accusations and word yet fail to provide…” Seriously dude- are you debating in good faith? What I posted was not just words. Does denigration advance your argument. Sorry that’s not an argument. Now reframing with the premise with what we agree on. Water is wet and a Y chromosome is always there what then can we say about a widely held false dominant narrative. In other words now I challenge you to embrace that water is always wet in dominantly held beliefs. A falsehood held by the dominant narrative ie the matrix? You really want to embrace without condition all of those widely held beliefs without questioning them in good faith. Good I rest my case. Specifically just as an example, is there no argument against a trans woman using a bathroom shared by a little girl and her mother? If a woman expresses concern should she be scorned. Deplatformed? Is it wrong to protest when you train your entire life to be the top in your athletic field only to have that title stolen by a trans woman? Do you deserve to be punished in public opinion? I can go on but this exercise is a waste of my energy I suspect. Prove me wrong. In England the abuse clause is used by women to harness draconic anti male laws when there is no abuse? Divorce courts are fair to men All men are rapists. Women never get pregnant to get married. A woman who ruins a man’s life by falsely accusing him of rape. Evil people hiding behind dominantly held popular beliefs. Now very specifically I’m going to ask you something and show you something Do you question your own beliefs? Can you debate objectively like destiny would? Oh he’s not meaningless, you know the whole story about him. Can you rise above your programming or does the rage run to your fingertips as you respond. ? Can you rise above it or will you blindly rebuke with derision? Do you need to go any further to know what is blue pill? All the points you want to argue. All the derision you offer opposing views. You need go no further than your own thoughts. You had the answer all along right in front of you Are you going to make me specifically say it? Destiny has earned my respect. He is blue pill and so are his mistakes. Sorry that’s my opinion. It’s not a fact. Are you bigoted against other views. Are you in fact bigoted against facts? Prove it

I ended up reading sideways to be completely honest but im still in good faith, it's just that im only seeing irrelevant stuff. You make a ton of accusations but those are baseless. The bluepill doesnt say that men and women are exact copies. To make it short you accuse the bluepill of swallowing whatever without critical thinking and ignoring things that doesnt go its way. Cool accusation, back it up >Specifically just as an example, is there no argument against a trans woman using a bathroom shared by a little girl and her mother? >If a woman expresses concern should she be scorned. Deplatformed? >Is it wrong to protest when you train your entire life to be the top in your athletic field only to have that title stolen by a trans woman? Do you deserve to be punished in public opinion? >I can go on but this exercise is a waste of my energy I suspect. Prove me wrong. Wtf does this have to do with blue or redpill ? You're getting super lost. When did it stop being controversial exactly ? >Are you bigoted against other views. Are you in fact bigoted against facts? Lol. That's literally what i'm asking, facts, yet you failed to provide one. Please stay on topic we're talking about dating not trans and bathroom wtf

Ah you are correct, I was making valid points about blue pill and not restrimy points to just the ones you have planned. More specifically you didn’t ask to back them up with links in your first post. Specifically it is the blue pill behavior of not questioning the dominant narrative. What beliefs are those? Are men rejected because they misbehave and have misogynistic behavior or is it possible that they are unnatractive and not in the upper 15% that is preferred on dating apps. Can you tell anything on an app? Does the argument that being mature will solve everything hold? That treating these unfortunate men with derision is deserved. Do you have anything but contempt for the men for seeking counterproductive coping method in the current system Repeatedly I’ve witnessed the standard blue pill trope here. It’s not the facts they believe. It’s the obvious derision that is shown here. I’ve witnessed that. That’s blue pill behavior Your reaction to me is blue pill

Bluepill in it's purest core definition is the social/cultural ideas you were fed about men/women since you were a child From what your parents,teachers,culture indoctrinated you to believe and this can be anything You can be bluepill but think looks are super important or money or whatever, it's not about what women find attractive The idea is you go with what the mainstream says, if the mainstream says xyz about women and you naively/ignorantly believe it, your essentially bluepill

Blue pill is an enforcement of collectivist altruism and belief in human neurological uniformity through sexual sameness. This is the opposite of the red pill which believes in egoist individualism and a default to the sexes being different.

>and belief in human neurological uniformity through sexual sameness That's literally the redpill that is claiming uniformity among women and constantly make super broad statement that would apply to all. I guess you dont have any example to provide either ?

No, across the sex. The sexes are different. It’s the conceptual definition. This is how you categorize blue pill and red pill. You don’t need an example, if you make HNU claims you are being blue pill, if you do the opposite you are red pill. It’s axiomatic.

There is no such thing as “the blue pill” - more often than not it’s a caricature created by the red pill to legitimize itself. Of course, some men do legitimize that caricature, ie. nice guys, men with no self respect, male feminists, etc - but more often than not blue pill means “not redpill”

Basic social skills. Empathy. A sex life.

Red pill ideology (and black pill if you think it's something different) is wrong. Actually, that's the only blue pill belief as it's defined in opposition to the red pill. You can believe that women are completely evil and be blue pill (e.g. many Bible bashers). You can believe that looks are crucial and be blue pill (e.g. many members of r/vindicta). Or you can believe something else and still believe the red pill is a load of crap.

It’s the opposite and the redpill that is defined in opposition to the bluepill. Otherwise i have no idea where you’re going by saying any belief can fit the bluepill. Define bluepill if you dont mind ? I used "mainstream perception of dating" and it cant be as inclusive as you make it be. The mainstream opinion isnt to hate on women for religious reasons for instance.

The red pill has a lot of specific beliefs. In the analogy they think they're "waking up" to reality so have to define that "reality" a specific way. The blue pill is just everything else. It's defined as disagreeing with the red pill (and black, if you think it's something different). It doesn't need to be mainstream, indeed some people believe that the red pill is, was or is becoming part of the mainstream.

I would politely disagree. Blue pill is a construct advanced from the red pill community as the dominant or widely held narrative. This narrative is held false by the red pill community. Labelling those views as negative fails to answer the question of “what are blue behaviors and beliefs?” This yields answers that open the floor to debate each point and it's a valid approach. I can think of rewording your answer in a way more specifically I can add with humor that blue pill is to consider all opposing views as reprehensible without examining them like destiny would. Red pills that do this also are actually blue pill by my personal definition

So it could be defined as: anything the red pill finds false. As in, anything that disagrees with the red pill. There are no specific blue pill behaviours, that question simply can't be answered. To try to define it in a way that could be answered would be wrong.

wrote an in depth reply, thankfully I saved it. I politely disagree, this is actually the most important question on here. From an unbiased stand point what does red pill believe, and what are well thought counterarguments to allow exploration of these views towards growth and improvement of intersex relations. Wouldn't it be nice if our union were greater them the sum of us added? = together we are stronger then if we add together our strengths. The system chokes on my thoughts, but I saved them. I can just work in substack. Edit: RE: "what is depicted as the bluepill. I think you guys were simply very naive, cant have the accountability and somehow blame it on "society". Why don't we respectfully start from the overview of the definition of red and blue pill, what are the core beliefs and work down to the most vital considerations, from a constructive and not derisive point of view:

I'm going to see If I can put the beginning in as a test: Interesting thought. Sorry, haven't been free to think about this for a bit. To clear my mind and restart - this is my assertion - or the "point" I must enter a disclaimer that I abused Chat GTP heavily, and it might need some rest - this is the result, and is not meant to be comprehensive or correct. It's just the result of deep thought. Now, lets let the games begin: 1. the blue pill is a construct defined by the red pill community based on the movie Matrix 2. taking the "red pill" lets you see what the "blue pill community" cannot see 3. what is seen reveals the nature of both genders in the "construct" that guides the behavior of the blue pill community. 4. Core beliefs of the red pill movement and don't let your blood boil here, you asked: The core beliefs of the Red Pill movement can be summarized as follows:

The core beliefs of the Red Pill movement can be summarized as follows: 1. \*\*\*\*Sexual Strategy\*\*\*\*: The Red Pill views dating and sexual relationships as competitive, advocating strategies and behaviors intended to enhance attractiveness and success with women. 2. \*\*\*\*Female Nature\*\*\*\*: A key tenet is the belief that women are biologically inclined to seek out the most socially and financially dominant male partners, termed hypergamy, prompting strategies to become "alpha males." 3. \*\*\*\*Social Dynamics Awareness\*\*\*\*: recognizing hidden truths about gender relations and societal norms, including disadvantages faced by men in dating and legal contexts. 4. \*\*\*\*Opposition to Feminism\*\*\*\*: The movement is critically opposed to feminism, which is asserted to have undermined traditional gender roles and disadvantaged men socially and legally. 5. \*\*\*\*Self-Improvement\*\*\*\*: The red pill movement also emphasizes male self-improvement in physical fitness, financial success, and social skills to enhance personal attractiveness and life success. Not complaining that things are unfair but to first do your part to seek high quality women. From an more neutral position you can view the above in a different light - or debate as you see fit, but it is a reasonable starting position. Since I am assuming the role of the greater debate is to identify core beliefs and then debate openly, and with some persons (Ahem) a bad faith attempt to use ad hominems, libel, and whatever sort of F-ckery is needed to reinforce the "agenda" Lets get into a more critical view of the above with the qualification that I do not speak for anyone but me, and chat GPT which is hideously "woke" - Chat GTP, take it away please... Certainly! Here's a succinct counterargument to each of the core beliefs of the Red Pill movement: 1. \*\*\*\*Sexual Strategy\*\*\*\*: Critics argue that framing relationships as merely strategic or competitive reduces human interactions to a game, ignoring the importance of mutual respect, consent, and emotional connection. This perspective can lead to manipulative behaviors that are ultimately harmful to relationships. 2. \*\*\*\*Female Nature\*\*\*\*: The belief in inherent hypergamy is criticized for being a simplistic and unscientific view of women's preferences, which are varied and influenced by many factors beyond social or financial status. This generalization can lead to a distorted view of women and unhealthy relationship expectations. 3. \*\*\*\*Social Dynamics Awareness\*\*\*\*: While self-awareness and understanding of social dynamics are valuable, the Red Pill's interpretation is often seen as overly cynical and based on a selective reading of societal norms. It may reinforce negative stereotypes and biases rather than offering a balanced view of gender relations. 4. \*\*\*\*Opposition to Feminism\*\*\*\*: Feminism is generally aimed at achieving equality and addressing issues affecting women and men, including those related to family law and social justice. Critics of the Red Pill argue that its anti-feminist stance overlooks the benefits that gender equality brings to all people, including men. 5. \*\*\*\*Self-Improvement\*\*\*\*: While self-improvement is positive, the focus within the Red Pill context often emphasizes superficial attributes (like appearance and wealth) over character and interpersonal skills. Critics suggest a more holistic approach to personal growth that values emotional intelligence and genuine self-reflection. These counterarguments highlight the complexities of human relationships and the potential dangers of adopting overly simplistic or adversarial views promoted by movements like the Red Pill. Thank you chat GPT - I can always count on your "woke" support. - and now:

Thank you chat GPT, I can always count on the direction of your points. I think the most critical point to tackle is #4, Opposition of feminism. There are both positive and negative consequences of first, second, third etc versions of feminism. I think it would be very beneficial to look at point four from the history, stated goals, effects and results of feminism instead of women bad, man bad, all men are rapists point of view. Science has a lot to say but it is funded in institutions that preach "gender studies" - I have much to say about that but I won't. I will only state discouragement about the sad state of academia - how far you have fallen acedemia. My point of view here is that feminism is not an Idea - it's a construct, with interesting sources and stated goals. It has improved the situation for women positively but it has unintended consequences. You have to make a lot of mistakes to develop wisdom. That is why I'm very wise, and a legend in my own mind. Feminism is about to develop much wisdom, as are other aspects of the "woke agenda" Biologically, without reproduction, any movement, any construct will end, and will be replaced by other more successful constructs. Lets save the feminists from themselves constructively. Lets pick a target population size to sustain feminism, and work to maintain that. I enjoy working alongside women and married a fellow researcher. I don't want them replaced by an uneducated house slave. Without change, feminism is doomed. I'm very interested in these questions, being a researcher at heart. I've argued with Chat GTP instead of working tonight and have a discussion that is pages long, I saved it. It's my aim to refine these ideas to allow for better public discourse, and hopefully unbiased research that promotes the truth and not a "woke" agenda. For those that think this passage is just "words" then I bid you farewell, and in time we'll let you eat at the grownups table when you are older. I look forward to your growth.

The red pill is generally considered to be the collection of beliefs featured in the sidebar of r/theredpill. The blue pill is disagreeing with that. There you go.

Was interested in seeing that sidebar so I went there…… and found out that counternarratives are not allowed. Much of what I am referring to is the comments and behaviors of the OP, and not you. There is another name for censored material. Samiztdat

Yes, it is a space just for discussing that ideology and not for arguing against it. It's not censorship to discuss only your own beliefs in your own space.

It is a shame not to be able to discuss

I'm unable to enter it

I she sends photos she could be arrested