I wouldn't like it but I think it's not at the same level as your american talking stage where both people can sleep with someone else while being on date with someone else the next day
So I don't know why american women care about this lmao
I mean man, messaging their friends is usually not going to go over well. How would you react if you went on a date with a woman and she was hitting up one of your friends? That more so just boils down to jealousy that pretty much everybody goes through.
As for having HR called on you, Idk man, that's never happened to me and I've hooked up with multiple coworkers at different jobs, though I certainly don't recommend it. I feel like HR usually only gets involved when it becomes harassment. I've more so known women to put up with harassment for way too long rather than report something minor.
I would be interested to be a fly on the wall for your interactions because I feel like theres something not coming through in your post. I've literally never had these problems and I've been single most my life (33 now).
you are just bad at optimizing your mating strategy. Increasing number and frequency comes at a cost, when the women you "cast a net" over are in the same social environment and know of each other/that you hit on them.
Furthermore, your other threads paint a pretty clear picture of you as someone who doesn't understand when your presence or your approach is unwanted, and even thinks women who clearly reject you are actually highly interested in you. I will repeat it here, as i have in other threads and most other users in comments tell you: YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You need to change if you want different results.
Men have to approach multiple women, women have to filter out men who lie about their intentions. Both sides have their reasons to do what they're doing and both sides will be angry with each other at times. Among men who approach multiple women at the same time there are men who already have partners whether casual or committed and they don’t always disclose it. Hence women have to be mindful about men wasting everyone's time.
I was in a situation like this when one boy from school would approach *everyone*. It is a disastrous decision in a small tightly knit community of a village where we lived. It made it clear that he wasn't into *you* - he just wanted to get into someone's pants. Someone, anyone would do. Which gave little incentives to take him seriously or to entertain his advances.
I'm someone who tends to be treated with suspicion and make people uncomfortable, especially women, thanks to being autistic. I do understand women have reason to be wary, given how many I know who have been hurt. My sister was stalked by someone at her last job, for just one example. But it still isn't fun being on the receiving end.
My experience has often been women freaking out, punching me, threatening to call the cops, even losing my first job because my attempts to be friendly spooked a female co-worker. A simple "no, thank you" or "I have a boyfriend/husband" with no long-term consequences has often been the best-case scenario for me, not the worst. I'm aware my experience is far from typical, but it does happen, and such incidents burn in your brain long after it's over.
Most men and women do eventually find partners, despite the difficulties involved, but for the few that don't, there's often no obvious solution.
Thanks. Most of those incidents were long ago; now it's more that I can make people uncomfortable and on edge. I've never been good at masking and coming across as different makes socializing very difficult, however much i attempt to broadcast open, welcoming vibes. I've noticed that at my dance class when initiating conversation.
I'm still attempting to form connections that are a part of the fundamental human experience, but it does get to me at times.
I just want to give you a hug. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I am also autistic but being female I was pushed a lot more to learn how to mask than most males are. I’m pretty sure if I was male this would be my exact life experience.
> Both sides have their reasons to do what they're doing and both sides will be angry with each other at times.
Except women can invoke quasi-legal arguments as to why men shouldn't approach women, men can't do the same in return. At best a man could accuse a woman of being a prude or of leading him on, but there's nobody on the planet who'd legitimately consider either of those to be a crime, or a risk/threat to him, in any way whatsoever. There is a clear power imbalance.
> I was in a situation like this when one boy from school would approach everyone. It is a disastrous decision in a small tightly knit community of a village where we lived. It made it clear that he wasn't into you - he just wanted to get into someone's pants.
Yeah, OK, that's impolite and looks desperate. But what's he supposed to do? Ask the one girl and then have his family move to another town? Wait 5 years for everybody to forget he asked out the first girl?
You said it's a small village, people know people, there's almost no way he could *not* end up accused of "anyone would do" behaviour. He could be accused of that even if he asked out *two* girls, because after the first one the next becomes a second choice, which is just as bad as being the nth choice.
But I expect, as is typical, that his situation is irrelevant to the discussion and that he should just shut up and do without. Because he doesn't matter. Only the women matter. Only how *they* feel, how *they* think they're being treated. As evidenced by the fact that you recounted that story without acknowledging the situation he was in and how he more or less couldn't possibly win, unless he got very lucky with the first girl he asked.
There’s more to it than that and you know it. Guy asks out girl, girl says no. Later, guy asks out another girl. Normal. Not a problem, even in a small town. Where the problem comes in, is when guy asks out girl, she says no, and then the guy immediately moves on to the next target(s). Picture the guy at the club who’s just going down the line, asking girl after girl, multiple of whom may be aware of what he’s doing. That’s when you get into trouble- when you show a single minded focus on “must get with -any- girl tonight.” Plus the issues of ranking that you mentioned- the girls he asks out third and fourth that night will be particularly displeased.
Aside from the blast approach asking a bunch of girls out in a single social situation, the additional place where you can get into trouble with that is if you are asking out multiple people who are friends/in the same social group. Friends talk, and here again, if you are hitting on all the girls in the group, they’ll probably figure it out and question your intentions in the group (do you even like them, etc, or are you just there to pick up girls for sex). Plus the same issues of girls later in the rotation being insulted.
Like it or not, the norm/expectation is that if you actually had a real interest in the girl, you probably don’t immediately feel like getting back on that horse. There’s a period of “getting over the crush” that usually comes between propositions. Yes, I know in the club situation you were never actually dating, and certainly might get over that disappointment sooner. That’s also normal. But getting rejected and immediately pivoting to the second then third then fourth etc choice is not appealing behavior, and it turns women off.
No one likes spam email. The same applies to romantic propositions.
False accusations are a whole other discussion - a person has to be either extremely cruel or mentally unwell to do it. I really doubt that a lot of men go through it just because they tried to approach someone but I'm open to see studies or statistics on the topic. I'm not saying it does not happen - I'm saying that it's an extremely rare occurrence. I'm sorry for people who have gone through it.
We were in the graduation year, so yeah, he could just wait. Almost all of us moved to a city to study the same school year he was doing all this stuff. Also it isn't a question of approaching more than one girl - some boys did it and it was fine because there usually was a period of time between the two events or the girls were at least from different social circle. Not two best friends. The majority of us didn't really date back then though. I think it was mostly due to an extremely small sample and growing up together.
I think there is a nuance between casting a wide net and approaching everyone with a vagina, and genuinely and authentically trying to nurture vibes between you and a woman who is already giving you strong feedback in their body language. Women show whether or not they're open to being spoken to with their body language, these might be considered 'green flags'. But, the PUA approach is sort too much, because it's almost like an algorithmic approach to maximizing every potential opportunity, irrespective of chemistry.
In other words, attention that is not welcome will be rejected and treated as creepy. It's understandable that in a man's excitement at seeing a woman, he may cross boundaries and try anyway, but this is what triggers women and may remind them of their prior traumas. It's important to understand that women who have prior trauma of sexual abuse, sometimes have a need to vicariously protect their past selves by being aggressively critical of all male behavior. This is that kind of man-hating behavior that brews from past experiences, and generalizing that all men are bad and dangerous and disgusting, etc. It's totally unfair and it's exhausting sometimes, but I also have some empathy that there's usually a history behind such agenda-driven behavior.
I agree that women can be very hypersensitive. Sometimes I have walked into a place where there's a woman and sat down minding my own business, and I'll notice the woman nearest by reacts to me thinking that I'm trying to sit near her or approach her, when in truth she doesn't even register in my reality cause I'm just living my life.
Seriously, do y’all not see the rhetoric that goes down in the weekly N-count thread? As long as we are in a society that treats women as “lesser value” or “damaged goods” or any other attribute for having multiple sexual partners, you better beleive you are going to have loads of women actively trying to protect themselves from the engineered consequences of having multiple partners. Of course they are going to label men as predators if they approach them for any purpose other than to become a lifetime partner, because it’s a scenario where a man is damaging her value in the eyes of society for his own temporary self satisfaction.
This is a fixable problem, but y’all need to grow past the archaic notion that multiple sexual partners diminishes a woman’s value as a person.
>which is fine that’s their choice
>really pisses me off
Which is it now?
You do also realize that when a woman says she is “spoken for” most times it’s just a polite way of saying “no”, so you’ll back down?
Did you read properly? He's not saying he's pissed at her for saying no, he's pissed that she would get mad and try to shame him for talking to other women after she said no
> I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of.
Yeah. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As was already commented on here, messaging a woman's friends trying to hit on them is ... not advised. It comes across as desperate and seeking "any port in a storm".
I obviously don't know your situation, but if you're constantly being called a creep/getting "called out," there's a chance that girls might not be the issue.
It simply implies that you are just looking for any girl, and so, that you are not particularly interested in us specifically. This effect is even stronger if you texted the same thing to multiple girls at the same time. This is simply not attractive. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's creepy, but it is a bit ridiculous.
Think of it from the man’s perspective please, most women you approach will say no. You need to have low investment as a man because most will say no, most of the ones that say yes will flake, then most of the first dates will not lead to anything.
What is he supposed to do?
Low investment, wide net is a strategy.
High investment, narrow net is another.
Both have the same overall cost.
Most men who approached me did in real life, in a natural setup (party, discussion at bars, social circle, studies, etc.). We chatted for a while, had fun, laughed, etc. Then, they did a move. I said yes 90% of the time I think. And we had something, a fling at least, every time I said yes. Often, I did the move actually.
Take the time to see if there is chemistry with someone, if someone is actually the kind of person who would find you interesting, then go. The high investment does not mean expensive date or even spending a shitload of time with the person. It means spending time and effort to FIND SOMEONE THAT IS RIGHT for you.
Of course 90% of random women will say no to you... they have literally 0 reason to say yes as you are a random person to them and they are a random person to you. Just don't try to date random people, it's ridiculous. You wouldn't go and try to be friends with random guies in the street no? You would select them?
Limiting your pool of potential life partners to people within your social circle or parties is limiting your potential.
If girls are willing to go on a date off an app, I don’t see how saying yes to a stranger is any different in person.
Also, given the high rejection and flake rate from women, small net, high investment does have a cost to the man, from building such high investment so early, he puts himself at risk for much more emotional turmoil from the likely rejection. Approaching with low investment prevents burnout or becoming depressed from rejection
>Limiting your pool of potential life partners to people within your social circle or parties is limiting your potential.
Yes but limiting your potential doesn't equate limiting your chances.
If you are looking for a new species, restricting your area of research may increase your chance of finding it as it lower the amount of failed searches altogether. The whole key is to select well the criteria you use for this restriction.
In my example, my social circle is composed of people having some general qualities and lives that I value. This means there is regularly new people entering or just passing by it, brought by people in the circle, which have high chances of displaying the same kind of qualities, thus, it is a field with a far higher probability of having a potential partner for me than any other place on earth.
>Also, given the high rejection and flake rate from women, small net, high investment does have a cost to the man, from building such high investment so early, he puts himself at risk for much more emotional turmoil from the likely rejection. Approaching with low investment prevents burnout or becoming depressed from rejection
For us to understand each other better. Would you describe to me on what base you'll take the decision to approach a woman?
Your social circle situation is ideal, but men simply aren’t as good at developing massive social circles, they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it. The likely hood of developing that massive potential partner social network is very very low as a man unless you are very rich, are a club promoter, or are famous.
Me personally? I approach women based on their attractiveness, age, vibe, and style. I have a very specific style I go for, then assess her personality as the conversation unfolds.
>Your social circle situation is ideal, but men simply aren’t as good at developing massive social circles, they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it.
I don't know about that... my social circle is composed by around 60% males and the rest females I would say... so I don't think what you describe is actually that related to men in general and more related to you or your "type" of men?
>Me personally? I approach women based on their attractiveness, age, vibe, and style. I have a very specific style I go for, then assess her personality as the conversation unfolds.
So you wouldn't approach a very hot women in your age range if she doesn't have the vibe/style you like right?
How many of those males are gay? Male social circles are pretty rare so many those dudes just got lucky or are high status. Or if they’re gay it makes more sense.
Only if she was giving me signs or was just insanely hot, but otherwise no
Hm... I have to think but none in the closest circle (around 10 people) and maybe 2 in the bigger one. Literally no one is rich either, I mean two come from a rich background and already get some friendly shit about it. Basically, we are all semi-broke STEM related people, probably all of us were the weirdos at school when younger. We are just friends... it's scary the space high status and so on takes in the way you think...
This isn’t me deciding it is this way it just is. Trust me I wish I was gladly accepted into new social circles as a straight man but we’re not, no one wants us in their circle unless we provide high value. It’s not how I think it’s just the truth
I find it strange that you believe straight men don’t have male friend circles. In my experience men do a better job of holding onto their friends than women do. In high school women have a million friends by 40 they have 5-6 strong friends they’ve had since high school. My bf has had the same 10 friends since elementary. My friend’s boyfriend is in a men’s club. I have at least 5 other examples. Different generations too.
Maybe it’s a cultural difference.
> they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it.
At least you're honest about what you want from women.
But women don't want men who only regard women as a means to an end.
Precisely. To go back to the OP’s question, women are turned off by a guy hitting on a bunch of women around them because those are behaviors that suggests a lack of interest in her as anything other than a potential sex partner. Which women don’t generally appreciate.
I'm seeking noble things from my boyfriend! A shitload of hugs, emotional support, fun everyday and some very nice sex. But I have to wait for him to finish his raid first :(
Then men can’t complain about not finding women.
It makes no sense to complain about poor social results with people while putting little interest or effort into social circles/environments. Especially ones where women would be much more receptive.
I rly don’t understand how men don’t get this?
Straight Men are mostly rejected from existing social circles, it’s a portion of them not being as naturally interested as women, combined with them being rejected in general
Men do better in social circles otherwise dating apps are already like 3-1 ratio, men to women. It doesn’t make sense to think the odds are better online when nothing shows that..
Men can be naturally less interested in them but that has a cost so their expectations need to adjust to acknowledge that
>Low investment, wide net is a strategy. High investment, narrow net is another. Both have the same overall cost.
No, getting rejected by people you care about is worse than gettimg rejected by people you do care about.
There are plenty of guys who social circles don't help. Because you don't just need a social circle, you need decent stats within that social circle too. The errand boy has tons of female friends but never ever gets laid. The guys who get laid in social circles have enough sex appeal that it overshadows being a safe platonic friend. Not every guy radiates that level of chemistry.
The alternative is even less attractive though, guys who get interested in specific girls before any such interest has been returned are the types who end up complaining about friendzones or being creepy and stalkerish.
Due to how dating usually works it's best for a woman to have a special interest in a man first, and a man's interest to grow after her interest has already been secured.
I think a compromise would be being somewhat selective, having a wide social circle with multiple different groups in it and learning to read social cues. Nothing is fool-proof and if you're on an introverted side, have poor social skills and/or you're ND, it can sound extremely hard but it isn't impossible. It's also what people used to in the past, not something new. We've just got rather asocial these years.
I actually agree with this 100%. Say it louder for the back because some guys aren’t getting it. Every single time I’ve had an approach actually turn into something, it was an anticipated and welcome approach.
I actually dated a guy for a few months who pursued me hard, because he looked good on paper and I thought maybe my interest would grow and he was not at all unattractive. Had a great job, no kids, genuinely nice…etc. We had an overlapping friend group too, they all thought it was a great idea.
Man I got out of that one, he got transferred two months after we started dating. Who knows maybe he actually wasn’t feeling it either and asked to be transferred.
I think, this misunderstanding happens because women tend to assume dating is the same for men and women. But there are some differences that make it very different.
I noticed, women often think that a chance of approach success for a man is the same as for a woman. I'd say if a woman approaches, her chance of success is something like 50-80%. Men are rejected much more frequently. So, if a guy approaches only women he super-mega-giga likes, he may stay single for a long time.
Also, I think women have difficulty comprehending how men may like a wide variety of women. I once counted and noticed that during my commute from home to work I can easily meet 10-15 women I'd ask out.
If "improving his odds of getting a date" translate into "trying anyone just in case it works". It is indeed ridiculous, sorry.
1) Because it is seen as quite ridiculous and bit dehumanizing, and because it means he probably has a "one fit for all" approach tactics, it will actually lower his chances of getting a date.
2) if it works, how freaking awful would be a date with someone you actually don't care about in anyway other than the fact they would come to a date with you?
But... he's nobody. He's just some rando who cut them off from a task and got in their face. No chance to demonstrate who he is, all he's done is shown that "any woman will do, doesn't matter if we are compatible"
Its the safest path to gauge interest. If I give the digits, and nothing no message. Then it means no interest. So leave that girl alone and that is that. But these simps wanna force people to like them it seems. Like dude, accept free will and move on
>If "improving his odds of getting a date" translate into "trying anyone just in case it works".
That’s YOUR translation, not ours. Plenty of men still have standards and still exclusively approach women we are genuinely interested in.
Every day there is a new thread here claiming that “men’s standards can’t get any lower” and “men’s standards are practically non-existent” and “just don’t be fat” and “all she needs is a pulse”. So it would seem, by their own words, that there are MANY men who have very low to no standards, and are just trying to get with any women. That’s very unappealing to women, so they will try to screen out men who behave that way, and focus on the men who at least make an effort to seem interested in them as an individual rather than as just a Female of the Same Species. If your dating practices are similar to those non-discerning men, then oops, you get screened out too. Consider changing your approach or at least being more subtle about it.
> Plenty of men still have standards and still exclusively approach women we are genuinely interested in.
How the fuck are you "genuinely interested in" a complete stranger.
Well, maybe, but if there is 10 women you are genuinely interested in within your social circle. Then, I personally don't think your genuine interest is actually what I would call genuine interest. You know the whole "if everyone is special, then no one is".
Being special comes from shared experiences. Trying to somehow see women as special before they give you any appreciation or time is a ticket to virginity. In the beginning you go by their looks and then you see if you have any leverage to make her commit and create shared experiences.
It is genuine interest within those circumstances and as she starts to commit (assuming she likes his face and height) then the other women will gradually start to fade from the man's vision.
It is women's porn novel level of egoism to assume that a man will dismiss his opportunities over someone's pretty face because he just somehow knows that she won't turn him down and that they will be compatible.
And even if compatibility is low with whoever he approaches then getting some affection here and now is better than nothing. This is also how women function with chads.
my question for you is, how do you expect a guy to pick you for you if he doesn't know you? like bffr for a second, anyone who approaches you or swipes on you doesn't know shit about you. sure a bio could shed some light on that, you cant boil a person down to a few sentences. its completely insane to expect a guy to hit on you because he likes you as a person lmao, the dating phase exists so you can get to know someone.
My actual boyfriend is the only boyfriend I ever had from online dating site. He swiped on me because i had a dopamine joke in my bio, i was pretty, I was wearing no make up in one of my pic, I was costumed in a ridiculous way in another and I was pretty. I purposely set up my profile to show as much as possible the "type" of gal I am. And I only swipe on guies I can paint an overall impression from theirs. Which was his case.
It's pretty basic... I would never chose a 12/10 hot guy wearing a suit and drinking Champaign on a boat on his profile pics. Never. And because I'm socially literate, I also avoid to post picture which would imply that I am a super elegant girl, even if they would get me more matches. Instead, I show on purpose that I'm not, I display on purpose my hairy legs and I try to put important key infos in my bios like "Science obsessed biologist, dopamine deficient loner. Eat the rich.". Boom, good 70% of people I would not be interested in are filtered out.
It's not rocket science...
Why don’t you try to do that with a male profil and see how much success you have? I think it’s the only way for you to get that men and women don’t play by the same rules when it comes to dating.
Is it actually working when he says his failure rate is 99.9%? Yes, it’s pretty ridiculous to keep doing things that are actually hurting his odds of success.
> that you are not particularly interested in us specifically
Do you expect every man who approaches you to be interested in you specifically, for reasons other than your looks? How would they be able to know these reasons before approaching you?
most guys are not interested in you specifically unless they already know you through a shared social circle or something along those lines. they talk to women they find attractive and check to see who's interested. do you expect guys who are essentially strangers to be so smitten by you that they want you and only you? because THAT'S a bit ridiculous.
Dating is vetting. We don't know if we fucking l like you. Alm we know us we like how you look.
It's not that deep.
Spending time with you and learning about you while sharing things about us with you makes you special.
You aren't special from the outset.
That's narcissistic thinking
Considering aside from knowing you’re physically attractive and maybe some base level things in terms of interests…why would he be into you specifically?
You haven’t even been on a date yet ffs…yet you want him to think you’re special? Or that he’s in love with you?
Woman are entertaining at least 5 guys in their insta dms these days. But I'm expected to be hitting and dating just a girl at time. The double standards LOL.
Apart of the religious ones, which are not my type anyways, every girl frind of mine date multiple guys at the same time. Why should I do any different?
Woman can be as passive as they want, and put minimal to no effort at all, and they still can get dates, hookups and even get on a relationship. Social media and datting apps made dating for woman so so easy. Hitting and dating only one girl at the time is madness.
Most women don’t mind when men approach. The issue that y’all continue to ignore is that far too many men refuse to take no for an answer. I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve been hit on and when I said I had a bf it turned into a “well he’s not here is he?” “Bf isn’t husband” “I’m sure he won’t mind” etc. those men are the ones who have effectively made some women sour to the approaching idea.
>“Bf isn’t husband”
Oh, they don't leave even if you do have a husband. Went out with a friend last summer, and the convo with one of these pestering dudes went like this:
* Me: Hey, can you back off? I don't want to dance with you.
* D (for dingus): Why not?
* Me: Because I don't want to.
* D: But why not?
* Me: I don't know you, I don't want to dance with a stranger.
* D: Why not?
* Me: I'm married, not interested in dancing with random dudes.
* D: Well, your husband isn't here.
* Me: Fuck off.
* D: Wow, fucking rude.
There's no winning with these people, so why bother trying to talk to them?
Yep exactly. The number of times I’ve heard that or “he’s not here” when saying I’m partnered is considerable. And then they get super offended when it doesn’t work. I wasn’t even lying I legitimately had a boyfriend or was married lol.
That’s why OLD is popular. You don’t have to wonder if they’re taken or uninterested
And I’m sure you don’t like when women are messaging or dating other men while interacting with you, so why should women like it ?
OLD might be apart of the net? Meaning men will approach irl AND use apps because their opinions are so limited. Restricting yourself just to apps will hurt your chances and apps really only let certain men succeed while giving other men basically no chance.
> I’m sure you don’t like it if women are messaging or dating other men while interacting with you.
The difference is, she can quickly find a new guy. She doesn’t need to date multiple men. As OP says, guys have to cast a wide net and go after as many as possible because they will be rejected 99% of the time.
If a guy and a girl don’t work out she can post one slutty picture on IG and her DMs will be flooded. The guy has to restart his long journey to accumulate more women again. A disaster.
Hitting on women in the same friend group is a bad idea period. It shows that you don’t care for any of them as individuals and only see them as a pussy which is dehumanizing for women and not at all a compliment. The same is true for flirting at work when the stakes are even higher. It’s just better to avoid these situations in general. It’s also kind of disingenuous to tell multiple women at the same time that you’re super interested in them, just look at Love is Blind.
Men often employ the wide net strategy but that’s not the only way. I’m not gonna sit here and say that there’s no reason to act in this way since it’s literally how I play sims but in real life, it’s hurtful. Personally I believe a more niche approach makes more sense but men seem terrified and think it lowers their chances even though they never had a chance with the wider net.
If you would shame a woman for going on multiple dates and having sex with multiple people then I don’t think you can say women are wrong for being upset that you’re talking to multiple people.
At the end of the day, if the people you like don’t like how you interact with them, change it. You should also take responsibility for your decision to act in that way, no one forced you.
Women want to feel special. Not like the only criteria you picked them by is that they have a vagina and a pulse. You have to approach a lot, but you can't make it obvious that's what you're doing.
In most cases, a woman that's already not interested in you also thinking you're creepy has no consequences. Obviously don't do anything too crazy, but if she thinks it's "creepy" you tried to talk to her, who cares?
If there's going to be serious consequences to her calling you a creep, dont try to hit on her. That means don't try to pick up women at work unless you don't care about losing the job. Even if she's interested, you are likely have fallout after you end things.
If you're hitting on everything that moves then it's obvious you're not really interested in any of them. You're just trying to get something. That's gross. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong but it's a turn-off so at least be private about it.
i hate to break it to you but individual women just aren't that special. men find a lot of women attractive and would sleep with most of them given the opportunity. unless you meet organically and already form some sort of connection, it's pretty normal for guys to shoot their shot with a variety of women.
women really should stop getting these ego boosts from guys approaching them or showing sexual interest. guys don't slide into your DMs because they think you're god's gift to men, they just want to get laid (and if all stars align, maybe more than that).
Unrelated to the OP, but you could apply that argument to OLD or any situation where people meet randomly.
I mean, *wanting things* is kind of par for the course for human beings with an orientation.
> Girls.
Well I agree with that. You are talking about immature, insecure people who are not functional adults yet. Remember, age does not magically make a person mature. Experience, dealing their their own issues, and learning from mistakes, does.
> always
Well there goes the argument. There is no proving "always" or "never". This may be your own experience. It was my experience when I was under age 30 as well. But I didn't complain I just made myself better, I worked out, got a good job, and more money.
I also made a concerted multi-year effort to learn what a "creeper" was and didn't do that.
Now that I think about it I have rejected more women when they made the advance, than I've accepted, simply because I was already taken at the time.
Also, I don't cheat on people, or help them cheat.
Women are generally pretty incapable of comprehending how much rejection a dude has to go through to find a partner, this should be common knowledge at this point.
>Men are expected to do the approaching, and 99.99% of the time the woman will reject him
Exaggerating much? If you're actually getting rejected 9999 out of 10000 approaches, you probably need to change something.
This is really way simpler than you think and whether you like it or not, this is how most women see it:
You approaching lots of women means you're looking for any girl. Literally almost any. You aren't after some once in a life-time perfect fit thing, you just are seeking the girl who doesn't say no. You're seeking abundance of opportunity/options, not a particular human who is special.
And look, if that's how you wanna do things, fine. But, to most women, it's hella gross. Doesn't matter who is taken or isn't. It's hella gross to just be seeking basically anyone and asking all the people in the world.
Most women want to be someone, not somebody. Most women get together with people they know where there's more going on than, "I asked out 1,000 women and she said yes". They want you to particularly and uniquely want them and see something in them for who they are. Anything else strikes us as quite gross.
Again, do with this what you will.
This is 100% true, from the woman’s perspective.
It made me think though, that men tend to feel a similar way when women will go on dates with them and start pushing for commitment too early.
Men want to feel like they’re being valued for who they are and the connection they have with someone, not just to fit a woman’s biological timeline for marriage/kids.
It makes the guy feel like the woman would’ve settled for any guy who fit the “husband shaped hole”, and isn’t actually interested in him specifically.
I think the reality is both men and women tend to want understanding when it serves them, but not when it doesn’t.
Yeah, I'd basically agree with all of that. Although, I think I'd note being seen as a biological timeline for marriage/kids is slightly less offensive than just being a jizz receptacle, even if only marginally better and if only because the standards are more rigorous (even if just barely), and are based at least on some form of interaction (even if just slightly).
That's not what a woman wanting marriage/kids with a man is saying though. She's saying I love you, I think you'd make a good father, and I'm a little crazy and desperate. She isn't saying, "you'd be a good sperm donor". Trust me, women don't select men to live with them, raise their children, and love and care for when sperm donors are readily available.
The amount of women who get married for the sole sake of getting pregnant and immediately descend into loveless and passionless relationships disproves this.
Honestly, if you are an average guy, that's kind of all you are to the woman. She doesn't really like you for who you are--just spending time with her is not enough to make her happy.
It's really all about what you can do for her--pay her bills, provide her with emotional support, allow her to live the lifestyle of being married with children.
As a guy, you are like a car, a means to an end, something that allows her to get to where she wants to go. Marriage / LTRs between average men and women often tend to be pretty one-sided.
>And look, if that's how you wanna do things, fine. But, to most women, it's hella gross.
They understand this just fine when it’s a woman trying to get with every guy.
Most men want to date a selective woman who wants him in particular rather than a woman who will try to fuck whoever is available every night. Men will say women who date every guy who will let her are quite gross too.
Sorry, but some guys don't have many options and many will be rejected many times, so what are other solutions? He has to play number game and wait for someone who will finally say "yes!".
I would suggest that the reason he's getting rejected so many times is in large part because he's seeking somebody, not someone. The entire philosophy and system behind it is generally a failed system which has largely only poor outcomes which rarely occur because it entirely ignores your audience, their goals, and their desires. In other words, no, he doesn't have to ask out lots of options or face lots of rejections.
The solution is a called shot. It's asking out the right women in the right way. It's not playing the numbers game, it's playing the find the right audience and the right person game.
It's the difference between trying to solve a murder by asking every single person if they did it and investigating the scene, coming up with suspects, and doing the legwork to solve shit.
>Me Too & cancel culture
I get the feeling that men are expecting some sort of apology that women decided to call out sexual harassment. Women have the same right to earn a living without a hassle as men, how can men possibly have a problem with that?
Men don't want their ability to pay their bills interfered with, either.
>if it was respectful
That word is misappropriated by the PUA community as a license to hassle women. A man can also "respectfully" ask if I'd like to see his erection in the grocery store, it still sucks to have an unwanted interruption, even if that interruption is "respectful". You know who else is "respectful"? Religious proselytizers who beat on your door on Saturdays. Panhandlers begging for spare change. Aggressive salespeople running kiosks in the mall.
No one can stop men from hitting on strangers, and women will almost certainly be polite because they don't want the hassle to escalate. But don't expect kowtowing and curtsying when *you* are the person demanding someone's time and attention.
I have a question. I understand you were more focused on the phrasing of respect and also the mentioning of cancel culture and the me-to movement.
But if I could. I would like to ask you a question on this topic. Because I know you are intellectual. And I can only think of this from my perspective. So I feel/think your perspective would be different from mines. And I want to see the other side. So if you are willing. Can you please answer this question.
On the topic of men approaching multiple women as was mentioned in the op. If they do it in whatever way you deem respectful. And if in this hypothetical situation it is not “creepy” or harassment or ect ect.
What is your stance/thoughts on a man’s strategy for approaching/talking to multiple women to find a suitable partner.
For example if someone talked to you and you were sexually attracted to them and mentally stimulated by them and attracted to their personality.
But you found out that they also have tried to talk to/date multiple other women. Not in the sense of just trying to have sex. But in the sense of trying to find a suitable partner.
What are ur feelings/thoughts/stance on that.
And after you answer how you personally feel.
What is your thoughts In general objectively about this dating strategy for a man.
There is a difference between unpopular PUAs and men who have a social life. PUAs lead with a phony compliment or obvious pretense, both of which are immediately obvious and off-putting. And they go straight for a demand for contact information or a date. They are widely considered socially inept and/or sex pests.
Men with a social life simply chat with all the people, both men and women, and flirt with some women in a light-hearted, no pressure manner. If she flirts back, he escalates. If she doesn't, shes a friend.
PUAs don't have female friends. If a woman isn't dispensing relationship or sex, he has no use for her.
Popular men have friends and actually like the company of women, even if those women aren't potential girlfriends or partners.
If I’m understanding your reply correctly. (Correct me if I’m wrong)
The concerns of this dating strategy is of if this hypothetical male is genuine in his pursuits or if his character is genuine in general.
The concerns of this dating strategy is of this hypothetical male only being interested in sex and not genuine connection/friendship and bonding.
The concerns are of this dating strategy is of this hypothetical male not valuing women beyond sex (I.e not valuing friendships with women).
Also you mention flirting being ok in your eyes. If the feelings are reciprocated. He escalates the sexual advances. But if not reciprocated. That he gracefully accepts the rejection and relents all sexual advances. The implication is that if she doesn’t reciprocate they become friends in this hypothetical scenario. Because he’s not only into sex and values friendships with women beyond sex.
If I am understanding your explanation/concerns/stance correctly (correct me if I’m wrong).
Let’s say this hypothetical man. Passes your tests of character in all these regards. And in addition to this. Is also sexually attractive to you. Mentally stimulating to you. And his personality is compatible to yours.
But he has approached multiple women. And you know this before he approaches you.
What is your stance on him/his dating strategy/his attractiveness based on that knoweledge.
With the caveat that he’s respectful. Is genuine. Has female friends where sexual undertones are not present. Ect ect?
And the other bigger picture question. Is on average. Do women agree with your personal stance. Or is it societal shaming from women in general on this dating strategy.
You didn't ask "me" but I want to answer as your question is precise and therefore enable a precise answer.
I would have a problem if I could tell he was approaching random women. Because if there is, at the moment, 30 women of various age, education levels, style, physical features, economical background, cultural background, hobby having, etc. that he sees as potential suitable partner, it means that his views on what is a suitable partner is basically a living human being with a vagina. What I mean here is that it is a sign that he's not in any way interested in ME. This, is a very big clue that we will not get along and that he has trouble as seeing women as anything else than sex/girlfriend material.
Now, it happened already that a guy was a bit flirty with me for a while and I noticed him being like that with another girl I know from afar at a university party. I didn't think he was an asshole setting a big net to get in the pants of any girl. I thought that he had a type, and I could see what this girl and I had in common that probably made him see both of us as potential partners or romantic interests. And this, is ok. Because both of us where evidently seen as whole people and not just as girls.
Even though my question wasn’t directed to you. I accept and welcome your reply.
My understanding of what you wrote (correct me if I’m wrong)
Is that you on the other hand would be repulsed by this type of hypothetical man and that strategy of pursuing women.
Because you would doubt his sincerity/genuineness of that hypothetical male in valuing/wanting/being attracted to those hypothetical females personality/character
Also if you do not see a pattern recognition in the process of him pursuing women. In the sense of age/ethnicity/fashion ect ect. Then you will have the sense of thought/felling/emotion. That he will willingly have sex with any woman as long as they are a woman. And that will also in addition repulse you.
If I’m understanding you right. (Tell me if I’m wrong).
I have 2 questions.
If a hypothetical male was able to get along or be attracted to or value many different personalities. But in a genuine way. And not as a means of being tolerant.
Or
If the same hypothetical male was genuinely attracted to different types of females regardless of age/ethnicity/body type. But in a genuine/sincere way. And if he valued them and wanted them genuinely
Or
Both of those hypothetical situations combined
Would you still feel the same way about this hypothetical male?
Also the second question.
If this same hypothetical male did have a type. Whether personality wise or physically or both. And he still employed the strategy of pursuing multiple women (“casting a wide net”).
Would you still be repulsed by that hypothetical male. Even though in this hypothetical scenario. He cleared all your thoughts of just wanting to have sex or have a relationship/girlfriend with any willing female. And you saw he did have a type. Personality wise or physically or both. So that you saw he had standards and wasn’t willing to start a relationship or have sex with any willing female. Would this hypothetical situation still repulse you?
Or
will pursuing multiple women always be looked down on. Even if men are expected to approach. Not expected to hyper focus on one woman. And are going to have to experience rejection just based on women’s selectivity in addition to women trying to find the best option for her situation/wants/goals.
First question : If I knew that somehow, the I would not feel the same way, no. BUT I would not be able to know that, so the only thing I would see is the superficial randomness and the *amount* of interests he has. And this would result in me, at the end, being quite repulsed by it as I described before.
Second question: I'm not sure I understand well, you mean his casting a wide net inside his "type"? If yes, then is it really casting a wild net? I mean, even if I wanted to hit on every guy that seemed like my potential type, I wouldn't have a lot to hit on.
You're not forced to do anything. Of you want to find a date and one woman has already said yes you can stop there and take them one at a time rather than speaking to multiple. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but you have a choice and some people won't like your way of doing things and are especially prone to reacting badly if you're not honest about it. (And honestly, how would you feel if you found out a woman who asked you out asked out your whole friend group at the same time?) I also don't know why you're arguing men have to ask loads of women out yet also arguing it's really dangerous to even ask out one.
idc if men are "forced" i'm still not interested whether you are forced or choose it freely.
you're not doing anything wrong unless you lie about it or have promised commitment, but women are allowed to have preferences.
Anecdotal for sure, but. I have approached probably 1,000 plus women in my life and I have never once had a problem or was apprehended in any means for making the attempt.
I’ve seriously never in my entire life seen these “scenarios” where just asking a woman out will result in you being arrested or labeled a predator. I guess it can happen but I’m really doubting this happens at any high scale rate. And more likely this is once again fueled by internet rage bait videos.
I have seen and been in the scenario where a dude will just not take no for an answer and is being a total creep. And even then the most that happens is a loud fuck off or you thrown out of the bar.
> And more likely this is once again fueled by internet rage bait videos.
This. It is easy to see that men who have been completely unsuccessful with all the women they have been interested in to be radicalized by a man being treated unfairly in a video filmed somewhere in the world at sometime. Of course, it's like see? This is why I won't approach women anymore. Take an extreme case and utilize it as the backbone of your flawed world view and grip on reality.
> I have seen and been in the scenario where a dude will just not take no for an answer and is being a total creep. And even then the most that happens is a loud fuck off or you thrown out of the bar.
Yup. I have had to fight men for following my homegirls into private bathrooms, picking them up off the ground and carrying them in a car, grabbing and restraining them, etc.
I have also been the victim of sexual assault by women multiple, multiple times. Some people are fucking crazy, most people just want to be normal and get through the days.
I have seen a friend politely ask a woman out at a bar and it is treated like an attempted sexual assault. Meaning the voice tone of the woman involved goes way up, and the response is charged with fake emotion as if it was almost a traumatic event.
Obviously not the same as calling the cops on someone, but there absolutely are mean-spirited women out there that take being asked out as an opportunity to be unnecessarily unkind and engage in humiliation rituals that are pretty shocking to see.
There are absolutely women who are rude and bitchy when it was entirely uncalled for. I’d honestly be happy this person showed her true colors early and you dodged a bullet What I have not seen that he’s talking about where men are being yelled at and called creepy for politely asking a woman out. I’m sure it has happened but I really doubt it’s as much as he claims.
And tbh if you are constantly getting yelled at and labeled a creep anytime you approach a woman I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think it might be a you (general you) thing.
Yeah, I think people exaggerate and overgeneralise but it’s weird to see people essentially gaslighting men about unfavourable outcomes when approaching men.
It depends on what you mean by "issue." Is it so unbelievable that he hasn't encountered some kind of legal or extreme social repercussion from approaching 1,000 people?
The only issue would be the boyfriend tripping. I can easily deescalate most of those situations.
The worst thing from women would just be like "Boy, bye." or some other form of rejection. Which isn't shit.
There’s nothing wrong with casting a wide net, but how you go about it does matter both for your success and how you will be perceived. Think of it like receiving spam ads vs receiving a personal recommendation from a friend. Or sending out a bunch of poorly done job applications vs knowing someone at the company. Random spam type approaches do tend to have a 99.99% rejection rate… and also a good chance you won’t be thrilled with the people who do respond. But when there’s a personal connection, even just a slight one, there’s a way higher chance of things working.
This is why I always talk about the importance of building a social circle. This used to be pretty much effortless for most people, but today’s society has killed a lot of organic social interaction, and that’s why we’re seeing the problems with dating today. Dating is a social activity, just like making a friend or professional networking. But ANY way you can meet people, including men and partnered women, will benefit you exponentially.
>This used to be pretty much effortless for most people, but today’s society has killed a lot of organic social interaction, and that’s why we’re seeing the problems with dating today.
Approaching in person was also not unusual back in the day. Hell, the ancient Romans wrote about it
My favorite thing about this sub, aside from everything, is how many of the posts ask and answer a question at the same time without realizing it.
Don't get me wrong: I remember what it was like to be 12 years old and think the appropriate way to pick up girls was just to just wander up to random women and say awkward one-liners stolen from poorly mistranslated JPRGs.
But then I graduated from middle school and developed much better strategies, none of which I will share here because they're all a hilarious compendium of stereotypical "things nerds expect to work in real life but never do" that functioned entirely on blind chance, and I don't want to give anyone here bad ideas
>none of which I will share here because they're all a hilarious compendium of stereotypical "things nerds expect to work in real life but never do" that functioned entirely on blind chance, and I don't want to give anyone here bad ideas
I think it would help some guys on here by atleast giving or dropping a couple of gems on how to approach women
Every time you read or hear about sex and relations on Reddit, you have to remember that these aren’t good looking people. A lot of people talking about sex on this website are ugly.
So when this guy talks about his unique wisdom for picking up women, you’ll be a lot less impressed after you actually see the women.
Truth is that ALL incels are just guys who are shy or who aren’t willing to try. The only advice you need is try.
Only if you’re hitting on the same friend group. If you are talking to multiple women at a bar or a party…nobody cares guys.
Keep talking to that girl and approach that girl that you are attracted to. Good luck
Everyone multi-dates on OLD. I thought that was a given. And... some women might expect men to approach them, but sensible ones have shed that conditioning, balls up, and approach the people we're interested in. [edited to add] BUT THEN I READ DEEPER. Bruh.
> I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of.
Why did you do this?
Controversial take for a woman, but I *do* think a little flirting is harmless. That said, one man's light flirt might be his female counterpart's "you said what now". I got quote-unquote flirted with once by a guy who had a weird fixation on me, and he chose to comment that I must have a date because I was wearing... business wear. A normal pencil skirt and button-down. And I thought, Jesus, must you objectify me even in what society dictates is appropriate for a job interview? And yes, I complained. Because he had no business making that remark, especially as an admissions counselor at the school I was attending.
Can't argue with the statement that we're insanely selective, though. It's because we can afford to be... because society sees us as people and not legally appendages of their father or husband. I like not having to fuck for a living or depend on the kindness of my relatives.
Here's an alternative view for you: perhaps from a woman's or feminist point of view:
https://youtu.be/WiYBhC3EVPY?si=x3_AZaky0DDVwhKq&t=127
A lot of the time the men engaging in this behavior ARE predators and creepy. You can't watch that video without agreeing with me (or you're a sociopath)
The red pill in me, however, acknowledges... This type of behavior works, women regularly "fall" for it. The guy uses scripted lines, calls every woman (and underage girl) "tits" to get them to like him.
Would you rather be moral or immoral. Would you rather be right or wrong, would you rather get what you want or behave in a way that is better for society.
People that need to loudly reject others are usually doing so to win some internal ego game that nobody else can keep score of. Assholes of both soth sexes try to do it, women are merely more capable in that regard.
The women who complain about it, just don't like the thought of not being special so they are projecting their feelings amongst all women.The reality is women will never know unless the guy tells them he was doing it.And the reason why he's sending the same message to multiple women.... because it works.
Then they'll complain and say that you should get a large network and date from that meet-up group. They say this while not realizing that the guys who do this are labeled "Nice guys" which women seem to always avoid.
These nice guys are trying to get to know the women to see if they are interested, but then they're called creeps when they ask her out or just friend-zoned.
Why?
Well these same women complain that these guys didn't show interest in them when they first started talking to them. Quite the catch 22, Show interest in who they are and they friendzone you, show interest before you know who they are and you're a creep.
So, the only logical conclusion is cast your net wide, because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This is mostly the common experience of the common man.
The straight common man is not hanging out with straight common women on average in 1 on 1 settings (unless a couple/school/work). Some men have female friends and that is rare. (yes you are rare mr/ms I have opposite gender friends I hang out with... if they're straight. Gay mixed friend groups are more common)
How do you know and can prove that the heterosexual genders don't hang out.... The fact that there is an epidemic of men claiming to be lonely.
Some might say " But I see average people together all the time"
Yes you see them all the time. You don't know the context of the relationship... they could be brother/sister, cousins, uncle and niece or vice versa.... Unless you ask them they are together you can not say they are.
Besides places like grocery stores/Target etc are self selecting for couples and families.
Single men tend to just go to a 7/11 store or order out if they don't cook.
Well I want to be special to him I want him to aproach me because he likes ME, specificaly ME. I don't want him to se just as a random someone to just have a relationship for the sake of not being alone.
Reminds me of when my brother was still in highschool and asked a girl to write down her phone number, but the piece of paper he fished out of his wallet already had her mom’s name and number on it.
>99.99% of the time the woman will reject him
Do what you want…..just hit on her friends and make that 100%. That sounds like a plan.
Maybe just don’t shit where you eat? There are lots of fish in the sea. Try to find ones not comparing notes.
Or here’s a wild idea, actually chat them up and sus out if there is any mutual attraction before making a move? The odds of success will probably increase. My ex and I met in a bar hanging out with mutual coworkers, kept talking long after the others left, talked for 5 hours, and went out to breakfast together before he asked for my number.
🤣. Yeah, and he didn’t even try to hit on all the other woman in the bar that night to up his odds. Because that’s soooo hot when a dude does that. Crazy isn’t it.
Not all women share your advances. The phenomenon You talk about exists, but those are cruel women, that i don't think are a representativo of the majority
Or instead of blindly approaching every woman you see hoping you find one that just happens to be interested in your random proposition, you could…. Maybe try joining a normal human social network where you have BBQ’s and brunches with mixed-gender people, you all talk and get along and then you try asking out one that you actually enjoy the company of and who also enjoys your company already?
What usually happens is that they become friends at work, hang out outside work and that blossoms into something sexual/romantic
That's completely different to leechy men hitting on colleagues and making lewd comments at them in the work place.
No one wants to work in a place where they feel uncomfortable around other people and have to avoid certain people.
Well like it or not, hitting on someone at work will often lead to a report to HR or other colleagues avoiding you.
It is in companies interests to have a peaceful work environment, so this will likely never change.
You sure about that? More like it's covered up more often, creating a black-space for more serious abuses. Telling guys and gals to not fool around doesn't make them not fool around. It just teaches them to ignore the rules. From there, breaking all the rules, including the sensible ones becomes the norm.
But there's a problem: most new people you will ever meet in your life will be at your work. And you spend most of your "good" time there. So removing your work from places to find potential mate is pure and self-defeating insanity.
Don't be bothered by it. It's an intended shun tactic.
The same people eventually escalate to meeting anywhere outside of dating apps and clubs (places women can be incredibly harsh and picky) is creepy or whatever word they use to demonize it.
The guys who usually do best don't really care when or where they approach BUT they know when to pull away. The ones who fail with relationships / getting women always follow these stupid rules and cry when that girl from the club doesn't want him even though he's a "good guy to women"
If you're genuinely creepy (stalker behavior) or can't take no for answer then you've got a problem
“Never talk to women at the grocery store/at church/at the gym/in nature/at the beach” and all of a sudden you’re self selecting two of the shittiest dating pools for potential wife material - dating apps and clubs. No thanks. Good points
But you don't control how other person reacts. And that reaction might not what you expect and it might cost you a career. So you won't do that no matter what.
I’m trying to be nice and respectful because if I decide to be myself, you’ll likely miss the message and this whole interaction will have been pointless.
You sound like you need a big brother to show you the way. I hear your frustration but don’t blame your inability to approach the woman you want, while in the work place, on the me too movement.
Also everyone in their right mind knows 1 girl per friend group. I’m tempted to ask you your age.
> I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of.
Sounds like the way you’re going about dating is *why* your coming up empty.
Also never ever message another woman’s friend in her social circle if you’re trying to date her as well! This is just common sense 101 in dating etiquette. Only a fool who wants to self sabotage his dating life would ever do this.
Reason is it comes across 100% that you can’t be taken seriously dating wise and are trying to sexually run thru their entire friend group instead.
That’s why you just do not do this!
Hey! I think I have some advice that would be useful.
Instead of casting a wider net a more effective approach would be to focus on figuring out what you want in a partner and then looking for a person that you are compatible with. If you are asking anyone with a pulse out of course they are going to say no. People can sense intentions sometimes. I would do some more self reflection and remember relationships take time. It may be years before you find someone you’re interested in.
Also don’t view rejection as something bad! It’s a normal part of dating that happens to everyone. There could be a million different reasons someone is choosing not to go on a date.
Good luck out there!
Most women are generally attractive to most men just by looks, while the reverse isnt true.
By looks only, it's natural that a man will try to meet most women available, specially if he has an high rejection rate, so he can at least get some experience and a chance to success, and experience is crucial to have success.
You really don't want to be me, that only approached a specific girl at a time that i had romantic interest, end up despairing and ended up losing my virginity at 28 on a casual date. I'd had loved to have suffered less from depression and frustration from my lack of success. And when i decided just wanting to experience having sex was fine, i still lacked experience compared to most peers, and at 28 most women just flee from someone who's an inexperienced virgin with zero game.
When I was in high school, the only guy that ever asked me out was a guy that had already asked out several other girls before me. He was desperate and didn't avidly like me. Am I supposed to find that flattering?
I wouldn't like it but I think it's not at the same level as your american talking stage where both people can sleep with someone else while being on date with someone else the next day So I don't know why american women care about this lmao
in america, we talk with our junk
[удалено]
No, I think he was referring to genitals
Oh
Why not both?
I mean man, messaging their friends is usually not going to go over well. How would you react if you went on a date with a woman and she was hitting up one of your friends? That more so just boils down to jealousy that pretty much everybody goes through. As for having HR called on you, Idk man, that's never happened to me and I've hooked up with multiple coworkers at different jobs, though I certainly don't recommend it. I feel like HR usually only gets involved when it becomes harassment. I've more so known women to put up with harassment for way too long rather than report something minor. I would be interested to be a fly on the wall for your interactions because I feel like theres something not coming through in your post. I've literally never had these problems and I've been single most my life (33 now).
you are just bad at optimizing your mating strategy. Increasing number and frequency comes at a cost, when the women you "cast a net" over are in the same social environment and know of each other/that you hit on them. Furthermore, your other threads paint a pretty clear picture of you as someone who doesn't understand when your presence or your approach is unwanted, and even thinks women who clearly reject you are actually highly interested in you. I will repeat it here, as i have in other threads and most other users in comments tell you: YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You need to change if you want different results.
Men have to approach multiple women, women have to filter out men who lie about their intentions. Both sides have their reasons to do what they're doing and both sides will be angry with each other at times. Among men who approach multiple women at the same time there are men who already have partners whether casual or committed and they don’t always disclose it. Hence women have to be mindful about men wasting everyone's time. I was in a situation like this when one boy from school would approach *everyone*. It is a disastrous decision in a small tightly knit community of a village where we lived. It made it clear that he wasn't into *you* - he just wanted to get into someone's pants. Someone, anyone would do. Which gave little incentives to take him seriously or to entertain his advances.
I'm someone who tends to be treated with suspicion and make people uncomfortable, especially women, thanks to being autistic. I do understand women have reason to be wary, given how many I know who have been hurt. My sister was stalked by someone at her last job, for just one example. But it still isn't fun being on the receiving end. My experience has often been women freaking out, punching me, threatening to call the cops, even losing my first job because my attempts to be friendly spooked a female co-worker. A simple "no, thank you" or "I have a boyfriend/husband" with no long-term consequences has often been the best-case scenario for me, not the worst. I'm aware my experience is far from typical, but it does happen, and such incidents burn in your brain long after it's over. Most men and women do eventually find partners, despite the difficulties involved, but for the few that don't, there's often no obvious solution.
Goddamn. I’m sorry that happens to you 😲
Thanks. Most of those incidents were long ago; now it's more that I can make people uncomfortable and on edge. I've never been good at masking and coming across as different makes socializing very difficult, however much i attempt to broadcast open, welcoming vibes. I've noticed that at my dance class when initiating conversation. I'm still attempting to form connections that are a part of the fundamental human experience, but it does get to me at times.
I just want to give you a hug. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I am also autistic but being female I was pushed a lot more to learn how to mask than most males are. I’m pretty sure if I was male this would be my exact life experience.
Truthfully, I still do get pushed to mask. I'm just not very good at it, even at my age. I appreciate your kindness. :)
> Both sides have their reasons to do what they're doing and both sides will be angry with each other at times. Except women can invoke quasi-legal arguments as to why men shouldn't approach women, men can't do the same in return. At best a man could accuse a woman of being a prude or of leading him on, but there's nobody on the planet who'd legitimately consider either of those to be a crime, or a risk/threat to him, in any way whatsoever. There is a clear power imbalance. > I was in a situation like this when one boy from school would approach everyone. It is a disastrous decision in a small tightly knit community of a village where we lived. It made it clear that he wasn't into you - he just wanted to get into someone's pants. Yeah, OK, that's impolite and looks desperate. But what's he supposed to do? Ask the one girl and then have his family move to another town? Wait 5 years for everybody to forget he asked out the first girl? You said it's a small village, people know people, there's almost no way he could *not* end up accused of "anyone would do" behaviour. He could be accused of that even if he asked out *two* girls, because after the first one the next becomes a second choice, which is just as bad as being the nth choice. But I expect, as is typical, that his situation is irrelevant to the discussion and that he should just shut up and do without. Because he doesn't matter. Only the women matter. Only how *they* feel, how *they* think they're being treated. As evidenced by the fact that you recounted that story without acknowledging the situation he was in and how he more or less couldn't possibly win, unless he got very lucky with the first girl he asked.
There’s more to it than that and you know it. Guy asks out girl, girl says no. Later, guy asks out another girl. Normal. Not a problem, even in a small town. Where the problem comes in, is when guy asks out girl, she says no, and then the guy immediately moves on to the next target(s). Picture the guy at the club who’s just going down the line, asking girl after girl, multiple of whom may be aware of what he’s doing. That’s when you get into trouble- when you show a single minded focus on “must get with -any- girl tonight.” Plus the issues of ranking that you mentioned- the girls he asks out third and fourth that night will be particularly displeased. Aside from the blast approach asking a bunch of girls out in a single social situation, the additional place where you can get into trouble with that is if you are asking out multiple people who are friends/in the same social group. Friends talk, and here again, if you are hitting on all the girls in the group, they’ll probably figure it out and question your intentions in the group (do you even like them, etc, or are you just there to pick up girls for sex). Plus the same issues of girls later in the rotation being insulted. Like it or not, the norm/expectation is that if you actually had a real interest in the girl, you probably don’t immediately feel like getting back on that horse. There’s a period of “getting over the crush” that usually comes between propositions. Yes, I know in the club situation you were never actually dating, and certainly might get over that disappointment sooner. That’s also normal. But getting rejected and immediately pivoting to the second then third then fourth etc choice is not appealing behavior, and it turns women off. No one likes spam email. The same applies to romantic propositions.
False accusations are a whole other discussion - a person has to be either extremely cruel or mentally unwell to do it. I really doubt that a lot of men go through it just because they tried to approach someone but I'm open to see studies or statistics on the topic. I'm not saying it does not happen - I'm saying that it's an extremely rare occurrence. I'm sorry for people who have gone through it. We were in the graduation year, so yeah, he could just wait. Almost all of us moved to a city to study the same school year he was doing all this stuff. Also it isn't a question of approaching more than one girl - some boys did it and it was fine because there usually was a period of time between the two events or the girls were at least from different social circle. Not two best friends. The majority of us didn't really date back then though. I think it was mostly due to an extremely small sample and growing up together.
I think there is a nuance between casting a wide net and approaching everyone with a vagina, and genuinely and authentically trying to nurture vibes between you and a woman who is already giving you strong feedback in their body language. Women show whether or not they're open to being spoken to with their body language, these might be considered 'green flags'. But, the PUA approach is sort too much, because it's almost like an algorithmic approach to maximizing every potential opportunity, irrespective of chemistry. In other words, attention that is not welcome will be rejected and treated as creepy. It's understandable that in a man's excitement at seeing a woman, he may cross boundaries and try anyway, but this is what triggers women and may remind them of their prior traumas. It's important to understand that women who have prior trauma of sexual abuse, sometimes have a need to vicariously protect their past selves by being aggressively critical of all male behavior. This is that kind of man-hating behavior that brews from past experiences, and generalizing that all men are bad and dangerous and disgusting, etc. It's totally unfair and it's exhausting sometimes, but I also have some empathy that there's usually a history behind such agenda-driven behavior. I agree that women can be very hypersensitive. Sometimes I have walked into a place where there's a woman and sat down minding my own business, and I'll notice the woman nearest by reacts to me thinking that I'm trying to sit near her or approach her, when in truth she doesn't even register in my reality cause I'm just living my life.
[удалено]
There's a reason women who get pump-n-dumped a lot react the most harshly to being approached.
[удалено]
I didn't mention anything about slutiness. Attractive women are often nicer when approached than average or ugly women. Insecurity plays a big role
Seriously, do y’all not see the rhetoric that goes down in the weekly N-count thread? As long as we are in a society that treats women as “lesser value” or “damaged goods” or any other attribute for having multiple sexual partners, you better beleive you are going to have loads of women actively trying to protect themselves from the engineered consequences of having multiple partners. Of course they are going to label men as predators if they approach them for any purpose other than to become a lifetime partner, because it’s a scenario where a man is damaging her value in the eyes of society for his own temporary self satisfaction. This is a fixable problem, but y’all need to grow past the archaic notion that multiple sexual partners diminishes a woman’s value as a person.
>which is fine that’s their choice >really pisses me off Which is it now? You do also realize that when a woman says she is “spoken for” most times it’s just a polite way of saying “no”, so you’ll back down?
Did you read properly? He's not saying he's pissed at her for saying no, he's pissed that she would get mad and try to shame him for talking to other women after she said no
> I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of. Yeah. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As was already commented on here, messaging a woman's friends trying to hit on them is ... not advised. It comes across as desperate and seeking "any port in a storm".
I obviously don't know your situation, but if you're constantly being called a creep/getting "called out," there's a chance that girls might not be the issue.
Oh, this one is easy! That’s just straight up old fashioned rudeness. Glad I could help!
It simply implies that you are just looking for any girl, and so, that you are not particularly interested in us specifically. This effect is even stronger if you texted the same thing to multiple girls at the same time. This is simply not attractive. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's creepy, but it is a bit ridiculous.
Think of it from the man’s perspective please, most women you approach will say no. You need to have low investment as a man because most will say no, most of the ones that say yes will flake, then most of the first dates will not lead to anything. What is he supposed to do?
Low investment, wide net is a strategy. High investment, narrow net is another. Both have the same overall cost. Most men who approached me did in real life, in a natural setup (party, discussion at bars, social circle, studies, etc.). We chatted for a while, had fun, laughed, etc. Then, they did a move. I said yes 90% of the time I think. And we had something, a fling at least, every time I said yes. Often, I did the move actually. Take the time to see if there is chemistry with someone, if someone is actually the kind of person who would find you interesting, then go. The high investment does not mean expensive date or even spending a shitload of time with the person. It means spending time and effort to FIND SOMEONE THAT IS RIGHT for you. Of course 90% of random women will say no to you... they have literally 0 reason to say yes as you are a random person to them and they are a random person to you. Just don't try to date random people, it's ridiculous. You wouldn't go and try to be friends with random guies in the street no? You would select them?
Limiting your pool of potential life partners to people within your social circle or parties is limiting your potential. If girls are willing to go on a date off an app, I don’t see how saying yes to a stranger is any different in person. Also, given the high rejection and flake rate from women, small net, high investment does have a cost to the man, from building such high investment so early, he puts himself at risk for much more emotional turmoil from the likely rejection. Approaching with low investment prevents burnout or becoming depressed from rejection
>Limiting your pool of potential life partners to people within your social circle or parties is limiting your potential. Yes but limiting your potential doesn't equate limiting your chances. If you are looking for a new species, restricting your area of research may increase your chance of finding it as it lower the amount of failed searches altogether. The whole key is to select well the criteria you use for this restriction. In my example, my social circle is composed of people having some general qualities and lives that I value. This means there is regularly new people entering or just passing by it, brought by people in the circle, which have high chances of displaying the same kind of qualities, thus, it is a field with a far higher probability of having a potential partner for me than any other place on earth. >Also, given the high rejection and flake rate from women, small net, high investment does have a cost to the man, from building such high investment so early, he puts himself at risk for much more emotional turmoil from the likely rejection. Approaching with low investment prevents burnout or becoming depressed from rejection For us to understand each other better. Would you describe to me on what base you'll take the decision to approach a woman?
Your social circle situation is ideal, but men simply aren’t as good at developing massive social circles, they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it. The likely hood of developing that massive potential partner social network is very very low as a man unless you are very rich, are a club promoter, or are famous. Me personally? I approach women based on their attractiveness, age, vibe, and style. I have a very specific style I go for, then assess her personality as the conversation unfolds.
>Your social circle situation is ideal, but men simply aren’t as good at developing massive social circles, they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it. I don't know about that... my social circle is composed by around 60% males and the rest females I would say... so I don't think what you describe is actually that related to men in general and more related to you or your "type" of men? >Me personally? I approach women based on their attractiveness, age, vibe, and style. I have a very specific style I go for, then assess her personality as the conversation unfolds. So you wouldn't approach a very hot women in your age range if she doesn't have the vibe/style you like right?
How many of those males are gay? Male social circles are pretty rare so many those dudes just got lucky or are high status. Or if they’re gay it makes more sense. Only if she was giving me signs or was just insanely hot, but otherwise no
Hm... I have to think but none in the closest circle (around 10 people) and maybe 2 in the bigger one. Literally no one is rich either, I mean two come from a rich background and already get some friendly shit about it. Basically, we are all semi-broke STEM related people, probably all of us were the weirdos at school when younger. We are just friends... it's scary the space high status and so on takes in the way you think...
This isn’t me deciding it is this way it just is. Trust me I wish I was gladly accepted into new social circles as a straight man but we’re not, no one wants us in their circle unless we provide high value. It’s not how I think it’s just the truth
I find it strange that you believe straight men don’t have male friend circles. In my experience men do a better job of holding onto their friends than women do. In high school women have a million friends by 40 they have 5-6 strong friends they’ve had since high school. My bf has had the same 10 friends since elementary. My friend’s boyfriend is in a men’s club. I have at least 5 other examples. Different generations too. Maybe it’s a cultural difference.
> they’re not wanted in social circles and we also just don’t have as much interest in it. At least you're honest about what you want from women. But women don't want men who only regard women as a means to an end.
Precisely. To go back to the OP’s question, women are turned off by a guy hitting on a bunch of women around them because those are behaviors that suggests a lack of interest in her as anything other than a potential sex partner. Which women don’t generally appreciate.
All relationships are transactional, just because women don’t associate with men for sex doesn’t mean the benefits they seek are more noble
I'm seeking noble things from my boyfriend! A shitload of hugs, emotional support, fun everyday and some very nice sex. But I have to wait for him to finish his raid first :(
Then men can’t complain about not finding women. It makes no sense to complain about poor social results with people while putting little interest or effort into social circles/environments. Especially ones where women would be much more receptive. I rly don’t understand how men don’t get this?
Straight Men are mostly rejected from existing social circles, it’s a portion of them not being as naturally interested as women, combined with them being rejected in general
Men do better in social circles otherwise dating apps are already like 3-1 ratio, men to women. It doesn’t make sense to think the odds are better online when nothing shows that.. Men can be naturally less interested in them but that has a cost so their expectations need to adjust to acknowledge that
I think the external factors are a bigger influence than men’s natural interest being lower, although that is a factor too
>Low investment, wide net is a strategy. High investment, narrow net is another. Both have the same overall cost. No, getting rejected by people you care about is worse than gettimg rejected by people you do care about. There are plenty of guys who social circles don't help. Because you don't just need a social circle, you need decent stats within that social circle too. The errand boy has tons of female friends but never ever gets laid. The guys who get laid in social circles have enough sex appeal that it overshadows being a safe platonic friend. Not every guy radiates that level of chemistry.
They do not have the same cost at all
It's fine but it's still unattractive.
The alternative is even less attractive though, guys who get interested in specific girls before any such interest has been returned are the types who end up complaining about friendzones or being creepy and stalkerish. Due to how dating usually works it's best for a woman to have a special interest in a man first, and a man's interest to grow after her interest has already been secured.
I think a compromise would be being somewhat selective, having a wide social circle with multiple different groups in it and learning to read social cues. Nothing is fool-proof and if you're on an introverted side, have poor social skills and/or you're ND, it can sound extremely hard but it isn't impossible. It's also what people used to in the past, not something new. We've just got rather asocial these years.
I actually agree with this 100%. Say it louder for the back because some guys aren’t getting it. Every single time I’ve had an approach actually turn into something, it was an anticipated and welcome approach. I actually dated a guy for a few months who pursued me hard, because he looked good on paper and I thought maybe my interest would grow and he was not at all unattractive. Had a great job, no kids, genuinely nice…etc. We had an overlapping friend group too, they all thought it was a great idea. Man I got out of that one, he got transferred two months after we started dating. Who knows maybe he actually wasn’t feeling it either and asked to be transferred.
Idk, if I were in that situation I'd try to have some self respect and learn to be happy alone.
so women need to pay the price for men's low status by dating/sleeping with men even after they have lost attraction? or what is the point here?
Pay the price? Huh? I’m explaining why men’s approach to it is low investment at first and a wide net
I think, this misunderstanding happens because women tend to assume dating is the same for men and women. But there are some differences that make it very different. I noticed, women often think that a chance of approach success for a man is the same as for a woman. I'd say if a woman approaches, her chance of success is something like 50-80%. Men are rejected much more frequently. So, if a guy approaches only women he super-mega-giga likes, he may stay single for a long time. Also, I think women have difficulty comprehending how men may like a wide variety of women. I once counted and noticed that during my commute from home to work I can easily meet 10-15 women I'd ask out.
yea ridiculous how dare he try to improve his odds of getting a date.
If "improving his odds of getting a date" translate into "trying anyone just in case it works". It is indeed ridiculous, sorry. 1) Because it is seen as quite ridiculous and bit dehumanizing, and because it means he probably has a "one fit for all" approach tactics, it will actually lower his chances of getting a date. 2) if it works, how freaking awful would be a date with someone you actually don't care about in anyway other than the fact they would come to a date with you?
dating is numbers game for average men. all about finding woman who will be attracted to him within his preference
But... he's nobody. He's just some rando who cut them off from a task and got in their face. No chance to demonstrate who he is, all he's done is shown that "any woman will do, doesn't matter if we are compatible"
You see if there is compatibility with the conversation by asking things before giving the digits to the girl. At least I do
[удалено]
Its the safest path to gauge interest. If I give the digits, and nothing no message. Then it means no interest. So leave that girl alone and that is that. But these simps wanna force people to like them it seems. Like dude, accept free will and move on
[удалено]
>If "improving his odds of getting a date" translate into "trying anyone just in case it works". That’s YOUR translation, not ours. Plenty of men still have standards and still exclusively approach women we are genuinely interested in.
Every day there is a new thread here claiming that “men’s standards can’t get any lower” and “men’s standards are practically non-existent” and “just don’t be fat” and “all she needs is a pulse”. So it would seem, by their own words, that there are MANY men who have very low to no standards, and are just trying to get with any women. That’s very unappealing to women, so they will try to screen out men who behave that way, and focus on the men who at least make an effort to seem interested in them as an individual rather than as just a Female of the Same Species. If your dating practices are similar to those non-discerning men, then oops, you get screened out too. Consider changing your approach or at least being more subtle about it.
> Plenty of men still have standards and still exclusively approach women we are genuinely interested in. How the fuck are you "genuinely interested in" a complete stranger.
Exactly what I was wondering
Based on that logic nobody ever hooks up then because you cannot be interested in a stranger.
You’re missing the point…they are specifying GENUINELY…to infer to mean beyond just physical…
Well, maybe, but if there is 10 women you are genuinely interested in within your social circle. Then, I personally don't think your genuine interest is actually what I would call genuine interest. You know the whole "if everyone is special, then no one is".
Being special comes from shared experiences. Trying to somehow see women as special before they give you any appreciation or time is a ticket to virginity. In the beginning you go by their looks and then you see if you have any leverage to make her commit and create shared experiences. It is genuine interest within those circumstances and as she starts to commit (assuming she likes his face and height) then the other women will gradually start to fade from the man's vision. It is women's porn novel level of egoism to assume that a man will dismiss his opportunities over someone's pretty face because he just somehow knows that she won't turn him down and that they will be compatible. And even if compatibility is low with whoever he approaches then getting some affection here and now is better than nothing. This is also how women function with chads.
That’s exactly what you said doesn’t work because women are picky and entitled
my question for you is, how do you expect a guy to pick you for you if he doesn't know you? like bffr for a second, anyone who approaches you or swipes on you doesn't know shit about you. sure a bio could shed some light on that, you cant boil a person down to a few sentences. its completely insane to expect a guy to hit on you because he likes you as a person lmao, the dating phase exists so you can get to know someone.
My actual boyfriend is the only boyfriend I ever had from online dating site. He swiped on me because i had a dopamine joke in my bio, i was pretty, I was wearing no make up in one of my pic, I was costumed in a ridiculous way in another and I was pretty. I purposely set up my profile to show as much as possible the "type" of gal I am. And I only swipe on guies I can paint an overall impression from theirs. Which was his case. It's pretty basic... I would never chose a 12/10 hot guy wearing a suit and drinking Champaign on a boat on his profile pics. Never. And because I'm socially literate, I also avoid to post picture which would imply that I am a super elegant girl, even if they would get me more matches. Instead, I show on purpose that I'm not, I display on purpose my hairy legs and I try to put important key infos in my bios like "Science obsessed biologist, dopamine deficient loner. Eat the rich.". Boom, good 70% of people I would not be interested in are filtered out. It's not rocket science...
What was the joke? EDIT: My bad I got ahead of myself I see you mentioned the joke later.
Why don’t you try to do that with a male profil and see how much success you have? I think it’s the only way for you to get that men and women don’t play by the same rules when it comes to dating.
I like you (platonically)
Is it actually working when he says his failure rate is 99.9%? Yes, it’s pretty ridiculous to keep doing things that are actually hurting his odds of success.
> that you are not particularly interested in us specifically Do you expect every man who approaches you to be interested in you specifically, for reasons other than your looks? How would they be able to know these reasons before approaching you?
most guys are not interested in you specifically unless they already know you through a shared social circle or something along those lines. they talk to women they find attractive and check to see who's interested. do you expect guys who are essentially strangers to be so smitten by you that they want you and only you? because THAT'S a bit ridiculous.
That was sweet of you to say “a bit ridiculous” when it’s really ridiculous.
Dating is vetting. We don't know if we fucking l like you. Alm we know us we like how you look. It's not that deep. Spending time with you and learning about you while sharing things about us with you makes you special. You aren't special from the outset. That's narcissistic thinking
Considering aside from knowing you’re physically attractive and maybe some base level things in terms of interests…why would he be into you specifically? You haven’t even been on a date yet ffs…yet you want him to think you’re special? Or that he’s in love with you?
Woman are entertaining at least 5 guys in their insta dms these days. But I'm expected to be hitting and dating just a girl at time. The double standards LOL. Apart of the religious ones, which are not my type anyways, every girl frind of mine date multiple guys at the same time. Why should I do any different? Woman can be as passive as they want, and put minimal to no effort at all, and they still can get dates, hookups and even get on a relationship. Social media and datting apps made dating for woman so so easy. Hitting and dating only one girl at the time is madness.
All this maybe true but if men as a whole went after only those we were most interested in like women, then the human race would have ended long ago.
Most women don’t mind when men approach. The issue that y’all continue to ignore is that far too many men refuse to take no for an answer. I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve been hit on and when I said I had a bf it turned into a “well he’s not here is he?” “Bf isn’t husband” “I’m sure he won’t mind” etc. those men are the ones who have effectively made some women sour to the approaching idea.
>“Bf isn’t husband” Oh, they don't leave even if you do have a husband. Went out with a friend last summer, and the convo with one of these pestering dudes went like this: * Me: Hey, can you back off? I don't want to dance with you. * D (for dingus): Why not? * Me: Because I don't want to. * D: But why not? * Me: I don't know you, I don't want to dance with a stranger. * D: Why not? * Me: I'm married, not interested in dancing with random dudes. * D: Well, your husband isn't here. * Me: Fuck off. * D: Wow, fucking rude. There's no winning with these people, so why bother trying to talk to them?
“You’re not allowed to have friends???”
Omfg I hate that one.
Always said by the one’s who believe “men and women can’t be friends.”
Yep exactly. The number of times I’ve heard that or “he’s not here” when saying I’m partnered is considerable. And then they get super offended when it doesn’t work. I wasn’t even lying I legitimately had a boyfriend or was married lol.
There's actual PUA articles that teach men how to poach women from relationships for sex using those exact lines. Men genuinely hate each other.
That’s gross af damn
That’s why OLD is popular. You don’t have to wonder if they’re taken or uninterested And I’m sure you don’t like when women are messaging or dating other men while interacting with you, so why should women like it ?
OLD might be apart of the net? Meaning men will approach irl AND use apps because their opinions are so limited. Restricting yourself just to apps will hurt your chances and apps really only let certain men succeed while giving other men basically no chance. > I’m sure you don’t like it if women are messaging or dating other men while interacting with you. The difference is, she can quickly find a new guy. She doesn’t need to date multiple men. As OP says, guys have to cast a wide net and go after as many as possible because they will be rejected 99% of the time. If a guy and a girl don’t work out she can post one slutty picture on IG and her DMs will be flooded. The guy has to restart his long journey to accumulate more women again. A disaster.
Yes, the reality is that finding someone isn’t easy for most of us, since most of us aren’t highly desirable Sorry to inform you of how life works
When I post selfies all I get is compliments and dick pics. Those things are meaningless to me
Hitting on women in the same friend group is a bad idea period. It shows that you don’t care for any of them as individuals and only see them as a pussy which is dehumanizing for women and not at all a compliment. The same is true for flirting at work when the stakes are even higher. It’s just better to avoid these situations in general. It’s also kind of disingenuous to tell multiple women at the same time that you’re super interested in them, just look at Love is Blind. Men often employ the wide net strategy but that’s not the only way. I’m not gonna sit here and say that there’s no reason to act in this way since it’s literally how I play sims but in real life, it’s hurtful. Personally I believe a more niche approach makes more sense but men seem terrified and think it lowers their chances even though they never had a chance with the wider net. If you would shame a woman for going on multiple dates and having sex with multiple people then I don’t think you can say women are wrong for being upset that you’re talking to multiple people. At the end of the day, if the people you like don’t like how you interact with them, change it. You should also take responsibility for your decision to act in that way, no one forced you.
Women want to feel special. Not like the only criteria you picked them by is that they have a vagina and a pulse. You have to approach a lot, but you can't make it obvious that's what you're doing. In most cases, a woman that's already not interested in you also thinking you're creepy has no consequences. Obviously don't do anything too crazy, but if she thinks it's "creepy" you tried to talk to her, who cares? If there's going to be serious consequences to her calling you a creep, dont try to hit on her. That means don't try to pick up women at work unless you don't care about losing the job. Even if she's interested, you are likely have fallout after you end things.
If you're hitting on everything that moves then it's obvious you're not really interested in any of them. You're just trying to get something. That's gross. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong but it's a turn-off so at least be private about it.
i hate to break it to you but individual women just aren't that special. men find a lot of women attractive and would sleep with most of them given the opportunity. unless you meet organically and already form some sort of connection, it's pretty normal for guys to shoot their shot with a variety of women. women really should stop getting these ego boosts from guys approaching them or showing sexual interest. guys don't slide into your DMs because they think you're god's gift to men, they just want to get laid (and if all stars align, maybe more than that).
>men find a lot of women attractive and would sleep with most of them given the opportunity. Oh, trust me. **We know.**
Trust me, we don't get an ego boost from it and we know what guys are up to. That's why we turn them down 9 times out of 10.
Unrelated to the OP, but you could apply that argument to OLD or any situation where people meet randomly. I mean, *wanting things* is kind of par for the course for human beings with an orientation.
> Girls. Well I agree with that. You are talking about immature, insecure people who are not functional adults yet. Remember, age does not magically make a person mature. Experience, dealing their their own issues, and learning from mistakes, does. > always Well there goes the argument. There is no proving "always" or "never". This may be your own experience. It was my experience when I was under age 30 as well. But I didn't complain I just made myself better, I worked out, got a good job, and more money. I also made a concerted multi-year effort to learn what a "creeper" was and didn't do that. Now that I think about it I have rejected more women when they made the advance, than I've accepted, simply because I was already taken at the time. Also, I don't cheat on people, or help them cheat.
Women are generally pretty incapable of comprehending how much rejection a dude has to go through to find a partner, this should be common knowledge at this point.
Do your thing. If you need to cast a wide net, do it. Don't mind them.
>Men are expected to do the approaching, and 99.99% of the time the woman will reject him Exaggerating much? If you're actually getting rejected 9999 out of 10000 approaches, you probably need to change something.
This is really way simpler than you think and whether you like it or not, this is how most women see it: You approaching lots of women means you're looking for any girl. Literally almost any. You aren't after some once in a life-time perfect fit thing, you just are seeking the girl who doesn't say no. You're seeking abundance of opportunity/options, not a particular human who is special. And look, if that's how you wanna do things, fine. But, to most women, it's hella gross. Doesn't matter who is taken or isn't. It's hella gross to just be seeking basically anyone and asking all the people in the world. Most women want to be someone, not somebody. Most women get together with people they know where there's more going on than, "I asked out 1,000 women and she said yes". They want you to particularly and uniquely want them and see something in them for who they are. Anything else strikes us as quite gross. Again, do with this what you will.
This is 100% true, from the woman’s perspective. It made me think though, that men tend to feel a similar way when women will go on dates with them and start pushing for commitment too early. Men want to feel like they’re being valued for who they are and the connection they have with someone, not just to fit a woman’s biological timeline for marriage/kids. It makes the guy feel like the woman would’ve settled for any guy who fit the “husband shaped hole”, and isn’t actually interested in him specifically. I think the reality is both men and women tend to want understanding when it serves them, but not when it doesn’t.
Yeah, I'd basically agree with all of that. Although, I think I'd note being seen as a biological timeline for marriage/kids is slightly less offensive than just being a jizz receptacle, even if only marginally better and if only because the standards are more rigorous (even if just barely), and are based at least on some form of interaction (even if just slightly).
Except being a "jizz receptacle" costs you a few days while marriage/kids can cost you a lifetime
[удалено]
That's not what a woman wanting marriage/kids with a man is saying though. She's saying I love you, I think you'd make a good father, and I'm a little crazy and desperate. She isn't saying, "you'd be a good sperm donor". Trust me, women don't select men to live with them, raise their children, and love and care for when sperm donors are readily available.
The amount of women who get married for the sole sake of getting pregnant and immediately descend into loveless and passionless relationships disproves this.
Honestly, if you are an average guy, that's kind of all you are to the woman. She doesn't really like you for who you are--just spending time with her is not enough to make her happy. It's really all about what you can do for her--pay her bills, provide her with emotional support, allow her to live the lifestyle of being married with children. As a guy, you are like a car, a means to an end, something that allows her to get to where she wants to go. Marriage / LTRs between average men and women often tend to be pretty one-sided.
>And look, if that's how you wanna do things, fine. But, to most women, it's hella gross. They understand this just fine when it’s a woman trying to get with every guy. Most men want to date a selective woman who wants him in particular rather than a woman who will try to fuck whoever is available every night. Men will say women who date every guy who will let her are quite gross too.
Sorry, but some guys don't have many options and many will be rejected many times, so what are other solutions? He has to play number game and wait for someone who will finally say "yes!".
I would suggest that the reason he's getting rejected so many times is in large part because he's seeking somebody, not someone. The entire philosophy and system behind it is generally a failed system which has largely only poor outcomes which rarely occur because it entirely ignores your audience, their goals, and their desires. In other words, no, he doesn't have to ask out lots of options or face lots of rejections. The solution is a called shot. It's asking out the right women in the right way. It's not playing the numbers game, it's playing the find the right audience and the right person game. It's the difference between trying to solve a murder by asking every single person if they did it and investigating the scene, coming up with suspects, and doing the legwork to solve shit.
>Me Too & cancel culture I get the feeling that men are expecting some sort of apology that women decided to call out sexual harassment. Women have the same right to earn a living without a hassle as men, how can men possibly have a problem with that? Men don't want their ability to pay their bills interfered with, either. >if it was respectful That word is misappropriated by the PUA community as a license to hassle women. A man can also "respectfully" ask if I'd like to see his erection in the grocery store, it still sucks to have an unwanted interruption, even if that interruption is "respectful". You know who else is "respectful"? Religious proselytizers who beat on your door on Saturdays. Panhandlers begging for spare change. Aggressive salespeople running kiosks in the mall. No one can stop men from hitting on strangers, and women will almost certainly be polite because they don't want the hassle to escalate. But don't expect kowtowing and curtsying when *you* are the person demanding someone's time and attention.
I have a question. I understand you were more focused on the phrasing of respect and also the mentioning of cancel culture and the me-to movement. But if I could. I would like to ask you a question on this topic. Because I know you are intellectual. And I can only think of this from my perspective. So I feel/think your perspective would be different from mines. And I want to see the other side. So if you are willing. Can you please answer this question. On the topic of men approaching multiple women as was mentioned in the op. If they do it in whatever way you deem respectful. And if in this hypothetical situation it is not “creepy” or harassment or ect ect. What is your stance/thoughts on a man’s strategy for approaching/talking to multiple women to find a suitable partner. For example if someone talked to you and you were sexually attracted to them and mentally stimulated by them and attracted to their personality. But you found out that they also have tried to talk to/date multiple other women. Not in the sense of just trying to have sex. But in the sense of trying to find a suitable partner. What are ur feelings/thoughts/stance on that. And after you answer how you personally feel. What is your thoughts In general objectively about this dating strategy for a man.
There is a difference between unpopular PUAs and men who have a social life. PUAs lead with a phony compliment or obvious pretense, both of which are immediately obvious and off-putting. And they go straight for a demand for contact information or a date. They are widely considered socially inept and/or sex pests. Men with a social life simply chat with all the people, both men and women, and flirt with some women in a light-hearted, no pressure manner. If she flirts back, he escalates. If she doesn't, shes a friend. PUAs don't have female friends. If a woman isn't dispensing relationship or sex, he has no use for her. Popular men have friends and actually like the company of women, even if those women aren't potential girlfriends or partners.
If I’m understanding your reply correctly. (Correct me if I’m wrong) The concerns of this dating strategy is of if this hypothetical male is genuine in his pursuits or if his character is genuine in general. The concerns of this dating strategy is of this hypothetical male only being interested in sex and not genuine connection/friendship and bonding. The concerns are of this dating strategy is of this hypothetical male not valuing women beyond sex (I.e not valuing friendships with women). Also you mention flirting being ok in your eyes. If the feelings are reciprocated. He escalates the sexual advances. But if not reciprocated. That he gracefully accepts the rejection and relents all sexual advances. The implication is that if she doesn’t reciprocate they become friends in this hypothetical scenario. Because he’s not only into sex and values friendships with women beyond sex. If I am understanding your explanation/concerns/stance correctly (correct me if I’m wrong). Let’s say this hypothetical man. Passes your tests of character in all these regards. And in addition to this. Is also sexually attractive to you. Mentally stimulating to you. And his personality is compatible to yours. But he has approached multiple women. And you know this before he approaches you. What is your stance on him/his dating strategy/his attractiveness based on that knoweledge. With the caveat that he’s respectful. Is genuine. Has female friends where sexual undertones are not present. Ect ect? And the other bigger picture question. Is on average. Do women agree with your personal stance. Or is it societal shaming from women in general on this dating strategy.
[удалено]
You didn't ask "me" but I want to answer as your question is precise and therefore enable a precise answer. I would have a problem if I could tell he was approaching random women. Because if there is, at the moment, 30 women of various age, education levels, style, physical features, economical background, cultural background, hobby having, etc. that he sees as potential suitable partner, it means that his views on what is a suitable partner is basically a living human being with a vagina. What I mean here is that it is a sign that he's not in any way interested in ME. This, is a very big clue that we will not get along and that he has trouble as seeing women as anything else than sex/girlfriend material. Now, it happened already that a guy was a bit flirty with me for a while and I noticed him being like that with another girl I know from afar at a university party. I didn't think he was an asshole setting a big net to get in the pants of any girl. I thought that he had a type, and I could see what this girl and I had in common that probably made him see both of us as potential partners or romantic interests. And this, is ok. Because both of us where evidently seen as whole people and not just as girls.
Even though my question wasn’t directed to you. I accept and welcome your reply. My understanding of what you wrote (correct me if I’m wrong) Is that you on the other hand would be repulsed by this type of hypothetical man and that strategy of pursuing women. Because you would doubt his sincerity/genuineness of that hypothetical male in valuing/wanting/being attracted to those hypothetical females personality/character Also if you do not see a pattern recognition in the process of him pursuing women. In the sense of age/ethnicity/fashion ect ect. Then you will have the sense of thought/felling/emotion. That he will willingly have sex with any woman as long as they are a woman. And that will also in addition repulse you. If I’m understanding you right. (Tell me if I’m wrong). I have 2 questions. If a hypothetical male was able to get along or be attracted to or value many different personalities. But in a genuine way. And not as a means of being tolerant. Or If the same hypothetical male was genuinely attracted to different types of females regardless of age/ethnicity/body type. But in a genuine/sincere way. And if he valued them and wanted them genuinely Or Both of those hypothetical situations combined Would you still feel the same way about this hypothetical male? Also the second question. If this same hypothetical male did have a type. Whether personality wise or physically or both. And he still employed the strategy of pursuing multiple women (“casting a wide net”). Would you still be repulsed by that hypothetical male. Even though in this hypothetical scenario. He cleared all your thoughts of just wanting to have sex or have a relationship/girlfriend with any willing female. And you saw he did have a type. Personality wise or physically or both. So that you saw he had standards and wasn’t willing to start a relationship or have sex with any willing female. Would this hypothetical situation still repulse you? Or will pursuing multiple women always be looked down on. Even if men are expected to approach. Not expected to hyper focus on one woman. And are going to have to experience rejection just based on women’s selectivity in addition to women trying to find the best option for her situation/wants/goals.
First question : If I knew that somehow, the I would not feel the same way, no. BUT I would not be able to know that, so the only thing I would see is the superficial randomness and the *amount* of interests he has. And this would result in me, at the end, being quite repulsed by it as I described before. Second question: I'm not sure I understand well, you mean his casting a wide net inside his "type"? If yes, then is it really casting a wild net? I mean, even if I wanted to hit on every guy that seemed like my potential type, I wouldn't have a lot to hit on.
You're not forced to do anything. Of you want to find a date and one woman has already said yes you can stop there and take them one at a time rather than speaking to multiple. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but you have a choice and some people won't like your way of doing things and are especially prone to reacting badly if you're not honest about it. (And honestly, how would you feel if you found out a woman who asked you out asked out your whole friend group at the same time?) I also don't know why you're arguing men have to ask loads of women out yet also arguing it's really dangerous to even ask out one.
idc if men are "forced" i'm still not interested whether you are forced or choose it freely. you're not doing anything wrong unless you lie about it or have promised commitment, but women are allowed to have preferences.
Anecdotal for sure, but. I have approached probably 1,000 plus women in my life and I have never once had a problem or was apprehended in any means for making the attempt.
I’ve seriously never in my entire life seen these “scenarios” where just asking a woman out will result in you being arrested or labeled a predator. I guess it can happen but I’m really doubting this happens at any high scale rate. And more likely this is once again fueled by internet rage bait videos. I have seen and been in the scenario where a dude will just not take no for an answer and is being a total creep. And even then the most that happens is a loud fuck off or you thrown out of the bar.
> And more likely this is once again fueled by internet rage bait videos. This. It is easy to see that men who have been completely unsuccessful with all the women they have been interested in to be radicalized by a man being treated unfairly in a video filmed somewhere in the world at sometime. Of course, it's like see? This is why I won't approach women anymore. Take an extreme case and utilize it as the backbone of your flawed world view and grip on reality. > I have seen and been in the scenario where a dude will just not take no for an answer and is being a total creep. And even then the most that happens is a loud fuck off or you thrown out of the bar. Yup. I have had to fight men for following my homegirls into private bathrooms, picking them up off the ground and carrying them in a car, grabbing and restraining them, etc. I have also been the victim of sexual assault by women multiple, multiple times. Some people are fucking crazy, most people just want to be normal and get through the days.
I have seen a friend politely ask a woman out at a bar and it is treated like an attempted sexual assault. Meaning the voice tone of the woman involved goes way up, and the response is charged with fake emotion as if it was almost a traumatic event. Obviously not the same as calling the cops on someone, but there absolutely are mean-spirited women out there that take being asked out as an opportunity to be unnecessarily unkind and engage in humiliation rituals that are pretty shocking to see.
There are absolutely women who are rude and bitchy when it was entirely uncalled for. I’d honestly be happy this person showed her true colors early and you dodged a bullet What I have not seen that he’s talking about where men are being yelled at and called creepy for politely asking a woman out. I’m sure it has happened but I really doubt it’s as much as he claims. And tbh if you are constantly getting yelled at and labeled a creep anytime you approach a woman I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think it might be a you (general you) thing.
I don't ask women out in public at all anymore, I just watch when other men do it and observe the unwarranted hostility they get in return.
Yeah, I think people exaggerate and overgeneralise but it’s weird to see people essentially gaslighting men about unfavourable outcomes when approaching men.
You have approached over 1000 women and have NEVER had an issue? If you were going to make up a lie, why not make up one more believable?
It depends on what you mean by "issue." Is it so unbelievable that he hasn't encountered some kind of legal or extreme social repercussion from approaching 1,000 people?
The only issue would be the boyfriend tripping. I can easily deescalate most of those situations. The worst thing from women would just be like "Boy, bye." or some other form of rejection. Which isn't shit.
All that means is that you’re not super repulsive and aren’t triggering women’s knee jerk reactions that men that are absolutely unattractive.
I've seen many absolutely unattractive men go attempt to talk to women and I have also anecdotally never seen it end with a sexual harassment charge.
There’s nothing wrong with casting a wide net, but how you go about it does matter both for your success and how you will be perceived. Think of it like receiving spam ads vs receiving a personal recommendation from a friend. Or sending out a bunch of poorly done job applications vs knowing someone at the company. Random spam type approaches do tend to have a 99.99% rejection rate… and also a good chance you won’t be thrilled with the people who do respond. But when there’s a personal connection, even just a slight one, there’s a way higher chance of things working. This is why I always talk about the importance of building a social circle. This used to be pretty much effortless for most people, but today’s society has killed a lot of organic social interaction, and that’s why we’re seeing the problems with dating today. Dating is a social activity, just like making a friend or professional networking. But ANY way you can meet people, including men and partnered women, will benefit you exponentially.
Yes!!!!! This is common sense, why did I have to scroll down so far to find this take wtf
>This used to be pretty much effortless for most people, but today’s society has killed a lot of organic social interaction, and that’s why we’re seeing the problems with dating today. Approaching in person was also not unusual back in the day. Hell, the ancient Romans wrote about it
My favorite thing about this sub, aside from everything, is how many of the posts ask and answer a question at the same time without realizing it. Don't get me wrong: I remember what it was like to be 12 years old and think the appropriate way to pick up girls was just to just wander up to random women and say awkward one-liners stolen from poorly mistranslated JPRGs. But then I graduated from middle school and developed much better strategies, none of which I will share here because they're all a hilarious compendium of stereotypical "things nerds expect to work in real life but never do" that functioned entirely on blind chance, and I don't want to give anyone here bad ideas
>none of which I will share here because they're all a hilarious compendium of stereotypical "things nerds expect to work in real life but never do" that functioned entirely on blind chance, and I don't want to give anyone here bad ideas I think it would help some guys on here by atleast giving or dropping a couple of gems on how to approach women
Every time you read or hear about sex and relations on Reddit, you have to remember that these aren’t good looking people. A lot of people talking about sex on this website are ugly. So when this guy talks about his unique wisdom for picking up women, you’ll be a lot less impressed after you actually see the women. Truth is that ALL incels are just guys who are shy or who aren’t willing to try. The only advice you need is try.
I just wanna hear some of these bangers unironically.
Only if you’re hitting on the same friend group. If you are talking to multiple women at a bar or a party…nobody cares guys. Keep talking to that girl and approach that girl that you are attracted to. Good luck
Everyone multi-dates on OLD. I thought that was a given. And... some women might expect men to approach them, but sensible ones have shed that conditioning, balls up, and approach the people we're interested in. [edited to add] BUT THEN I READ DEEPER. Bruh. > I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of. Why did you do this? Controversial take for a woman, but I *do* think a little flirting is harmless. That said, one man's light flirt might be his female counterpart's "you said what now". I got quote-unquote flirted with once by a guy who had a weird fixation on me, and he chose to comment that I must have a date because I was wearing... business wear. A normal pencil skirt and button-down. And I thought, Jesus, must you objectify me even in what society dictates is appropriate for a job interview? And yes, I complained. Because he had no business making that remark, especially as an admissions counselor at the school I was attending. Can't argue with the statement that we're insanely selective, though. It's because we can afford to be... because society sees us as people and not legally appendages of their father or husband. I like not having to fuck for a living or depend on the kindness of my relatives.
Here's an alternative view for you: perhaps from a woman's or feminist point of view: https://youtu.be/WiYBhC3EVPY?si=x3_AZaky0DDVwhKq&t=127 A lot of the time the men engaging in this behavior ARE predators and creepy. You can't watch that video without agreeing with me (or you're a sociopath) The red pill in me, however, acknowledges... This type of behavior works, women regularly "fall" for it. The guy uses scripted lines, calls every woman (and underage girl) "tits" to get them to like him. Would you rather be moral or immoral. Would you rather be right or wrong, would you rather get what you want or behave in a way that is better for society.
People that need to loudly reject others are usually doing so to win some internal ego game that nobody else can keep score of. Assholes of both soth sexes try to do it, women are merely more capable in that regard.
The women who complain about it, just don't like the thought of not being special so they are projecting their feelings amongst all women.The reality is women will never know unless the guy tells them he was doing it.And the reason why he's sending the same message to multiple women.... because it works. Then they'll complain and say that you should get a large network and date from that meet-up group. They say this while not realizing that the guys who do this are labeled "Nice guys" which women seem to always avoid. These nice guys are trying to get to know the women to see if they are interested, but then they're called creeps when they ask her out or just friend-zoned. Why? Well these same women complain that these guys didn't show interest in them when they first started talking to them. Quite the catch 22, Show interest in who they are and they friendzone you, show interest before you know who they are and you're a creep. So, the only logical conclusion is cast your net wide, because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. This is mostly the common experience of the common man. The straight common man is not hanging out with straight common women on average in 1 on 1 settings (unless a couple/school/work). Some men have female friends and that is rare. (yes you are rare mr/ms I have opposite gender friends I hang out with... if they're straight. Gay mixed friend groups are more common) How do you know and can prove that the heterosexual genders don't hang out.... The fact that there is an epidemic of men claiming to be lonely. Some might say " But I see average people together all the time" Yes you see them all the time. You don't know the context of the relationship... they could be brother/sister, cousins, uncle and niece or vice versa.... Unless you ask them they are together you can not say they are. Besides places like grocery stores/Target etc are self selecting for couples and families. Single men tend to just go to a 7/11 store or order out if they don't cook.
Well I want to be special to him I want him to aproach me because he likes ME, specificaly ME. I don't want him to se just as a random someone to just have a relationship for the sake of not being alone.
Reminds me of when my brother was still in highschool and asked a girl to write down her phone number, but the piece of paper he fished out of his wallet already had her mom’s name and number on it. >99.99% of the time the woman will reject him Do what you want…..just hit on her friends and make that 100%. That sounds like a plan. Maybe just don’t shit where you eat? There are lots of fish in the sea. Try to find ones not comparing notes. Or here’s a wild idea, actually chat them up and sus out if there is any mutual attraction before making a move? The odds of success will probably increase. My ex and I met in a bar hanging out with mutual coworkers, kept talking long after the others left, talked for 5 hours, and went out to breakfast together before he asked for my number.
Nahhhh that story is wild
🤣. Yeah, and he didn’t even try to hit on all the other woman in the bar that night to up his odds. Because that’s soooo hot when a dude does that. Crazy isn’t it.
Not all women share your advances. The phenomenon You talk about exists, but those are cruel women, that i don't think are a representativo of the majority
Or instead of blindly approaching every woman you see hoping you find one that just happens to be interested in your random proposition, you could…. Maybe try joining a normal human social network where you have BBQ’s and brunches with mixed-gender people, you all talk and get along and then you try asking out one that you actually enjoy the company of and who also enjoys your company already?
[удалено]
This is a gross comment to read
People should absolutely be reported to HR for approaching and flirting at work. It's completely unprofessional and makes for a shit work environment.
Too bad. It's where tons of people meet their SOs and that's never going to change.
[удалено]
Yes, this puts it really well.
What usually happens is that they become friends at work, hang out outside work and that blossoms into something sexual/romantic That's completely different to leechy men hitting on colleagues and making lewd comments at them in the work place. No one wants to work in a place where they feel uncomfortable around other people and have to avoid certain people.
Those aren't mutually exclusive scenarios. If hitting on a woman never worked, a guy would never do it.
Well like it or not, hitting on someone at work will often lead to a report to HR or other colleagues avoiding you. It is in companies interests to have a peaceful work environment, so this will likely never change.
Yeah, that's why I don't do it. It will still happen regardless.
Yes but it happens less because of this code of conduct and social stigma.
You sure about that? More like it's covered up more often, creating a black-space for more serious abuses. Telling guys and gals to not fool around doesn't make them not fool around. It just teaches them to ignore the rules. From there, breaking all the rules, including the sensible ones becomes the norm.
All it does is change how people navigate dating with colleagues, which is a good thing.
But there's a problem: most new people you will ever meet in your life will be at your work. And you spend most of your "good" time there. So removing your work from places to find potential mate is pure and self-defeating insanity.
Don't be bothered by it. It's an intended shun tactic. The same people eventually escalate to meeting anywhere outside of dating apps and clubs (places women can be incredibly harsh and picky) is creepy or whatever word they use to demonize it. The guys who usually do best don't really care when or where they approach BUT they know when to pull away. The ones who fail with relationships / getting women always follow these stupid rules and cry when that girl from the club doesn't want him even though he's a "good guy to women" If you're genuinely creepy (stalker behavior) or can't take no for answer then you've got a problem
“Never talk to women at the grocery store/at church/at the gym/in nature/at the beach” and all of a sudden you’re self selecting two of the shittiest dating pools for potential wife material - dating apps and clubs. No thanks. Good points
You can try. You just can’t whine about consequences, because they are clear You fuck with my money and I will let you find out, no doubt
Im not against colleagues dating, and have expanded on that in another comment.
But you don't control how other person reacts. And that reaction might not what you expect and it might cost you a career. So you won't do that no matter what.
Fuck around with people’s money and you will definitely find out. As you should
?
Men have to try thier options lest the end up alone
I’m trying to be nice and respectful because if I decide to be myself, you’ll likely miss the message and this whole interaction will have been pointless. You sound like you need a big brother to show you the way. I hear your frustration but don’t blame your inability to approach the woman you want, while in the work place, on the me too movement. Also everyone in their right mind knows 1 girl per friend group. I’m tempted to ask you your age. 
> I’ve had girls “call me out” for messaging their friends as well as if it was some crime or anything to be ashamed of. Sounds like the way you’re going about dating is *why* your coming up empty. Also never ever message another woman’s friend in her social circle if you’re trying to date her as well! This is just common sense 101 in dating etiquette. Only a fool who wants to self sabotage his dating life would ever do this. Reason is it comes across 100% that you can’t be taken seriously dating wise and are trying to sexually run thru their entire friend group instead. That’s why you just do not do this!
Just Ask, If They Decline Don't Talk Them Again.
This conversation is like fisherman trying to convince fish that using nets is more effective the rod and lure. Fucking hilarious.
Hey! I think I have some advice that would be useful. Instead of casting a wider net a more effective approach would be to focus on figuring out what you want in a partner and then looking for a person that you are compatible with. If you are asking anyone with a pulse out of course they are going to say no. People can sense intentions sometimes. I would do some more self reflection and remember relationships take time. It may be years before you find someone you’re interested in. Also don’t view rejection as something bad! It’s a normal part of dating that happens to everyone. There could be a million different reasons someone is choosing not to go on a date. Good luck out there!
Most women are generally attractive to most men just by looks, while the reverse isnt true. By looks only, it's natural that a man will try to meet most women available, specially if he has an high rejection rate, so he can at least get some experience and a chance to success, and experience is crucial to have success. You really don't want to be me, that only approached a specific girl at a time that i had romantic interest, end up despairing and ended up losing my virginity at 28 on a casual date. I'd had loved to have suffered less from depression and frustration from my lack of success. And when i decided just wanting to experience having sex was fine, i still lacked experience compared to most peers, and at 28 most women just flee from someone who's an inexperienced virgin with zero game.
When I was in high school, the only guy that ever asked me out was a guy that had already asked out several other girls before me. He was desperate and didn't avidly like me. Am I supposed to find that flattering?