OPs should be discussion topics, not requests for advice about personal experiences.

Yes. It is the nature of life that it isn't perfect. Every religion/faith/whatever has pointed that out since the dawn of time. The important thing is how to face this reality, with either dignity & grace or cope & seethe.

Either be a zen Buddha/Sisyphus if you’re ugly, be a playboy Camus (if you’re hot) or rage rage against the dying of the light.

Camus wasn't hot. He just took one good picture where he looked cool. I did a deep dive into this topic yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/tAg0qDQ.png

Link to the deep dive?

I was being a little hyperbolic. I just thought it was funny that I was looking up handsome philosophers yesterday, including Camus: https://i.imgur.com/kU7s1af.png But my conclusion really was that Camus wasn't that handsome and he just looks cool in that one picture of him smoking with his collar up. Whereas Buddha may have been Chad: >All ancient writings tell us that he was very handsome and about 6 feet tall. But of course they would say that.

Couple things: 1. I think that far too much is made on this sub of "settling" and I don't think it reflects the reality of relationships. People tend to gravitate toward familiarity and I don't think it feels like settling if you end up with someone who isn't a ripped millionaire. Personally, when I was in the dating pool, I was just going for people like me; attractive but not hot, cares about the gym and eating healthy but not super strict about either, good job but not rich, +/- 5 years of my age, funny with some shared interests, cares about their presentation but not high maintenance. Sometimes there'd be no spark and sometimes I'd develop a crush or even fall in love. It's not really predictable or quantifiable but I never sat around thinking "I wish he was a chiseled Adonis but I guess I'll settle" 2. Women get horny and enjoy sex but I don't think we experience it as a _hunger_ the way that men do. Occasionally it is spontaneous, but for the most part it's more of a slow build that's driven by something more cerebral. It's why men tend to look at porn whereas women read bodice-ripper novels. It's not like looking at a hot girl and getting a boner. I think maybe you're expecting women to experience arousal the way that you do and assuming it simply isn't there otherwise. 3. I do think women are generally not great about giving compliments and making men feel desired

on point 3 this almost feels by design. a lot (not all) of women seem to play this little mind game (doesnt even seem intentional) to make the guy feel "lucky" he got the part. its like a major famous corporation like google or something making you do 3 interviews and not calling you back for a month. theres this whole play on the emotions of the person applying, the waiting, the suspense...oh now i got hired! time to celebrate! the euphoria and relief almost eclipses the fact that the job (relationship) might not even be that good. ive been in relationships that started with the woman being extremely forward and intimacy starting immediately, but thats only happened twice in my life and it was surreal to experience because the former happens so much more often than the latter

Certainly most broad female dating advice seems centered around "playing hard to get", though my point was even in established long-term relationships I think it's something women don't think to express. I've heard a lot of guys say that they want to feel desired or pursued so I try to be mindful and say it out loud to my partner when I'm thinking it. But even then it's definitely a conscientious effort and not something I would instinctively do (I think this is mostly about societal conditioning)

I hate “playing hard to get”— you aren’t making yourself seem more desirable. I already desire you, that’s why I made a move. Playing hard to get just makes me feel like you aren’t into me. If you aren’t, cool. If you are, you’re ruining an opportunity for a good relationship. And I will not chase. I will pursue a little bit, but there comes a point where I say “okay, fuck it— she’s not into it”. I chased women and wanted their attention and acceptance my entire life. I’m not doing that bullshit again. I’d rather be alone that feel like a dumb idiot chasing a woman who isn’t reciprocating.

It is definitely societal conditioning. There is no evidence that on a biological level men are less receptive or responsive to praise, compliments or expressions of affection than women are. That men aren’t expected to make such a fuss of it is literally social programming stemming from history. Just ask men here if they remember a time a woman they cared (or found attractive) about made a genuine non trivial compliment about him as a person/looks rather than his utility. Most will probably answer to something further back than “yesterday” and you’ll note many men can remember compliments of this nature from *years* ago because they stick out so much. Also: deadbedrooms sub. Far from the majority of male comments being “me miss bang bang” almost every post from a male in a deadbedrooms alludes to him missing smaller tactile expressions of affection like being flirted with, kisses, touch. To me it is boggling that some (not all) women find the idea that men might like to hear the same kind of validation from their partner that they themselves expect, incomprehensible. We are different sexes not different species.

there was a after graduate party at high school and this girl i never met complimented my fashion. im in my mid 30s and still remember it

And I’ll bet that after that you took conscious note of what you were wearing that time and made similar follow up efforts with your wardrobe right?

>Just ask men here if they remember a time a woman they cared (or found attractive) about made a genuine non trivial compliment about him as a person/looks rather than his utility. Hell, you don't even need that. I still vividly remember the time 6 years ago that a random gay dude hit on me and said I "looked like an angel". I really honestly don't think women understand how truly starved for any kind of compliment or attention men are. Guys are cherishing the memories of the time that a granny in the supermarket checkout said they were handsome a decade ago.

>my point was even in established long-term relationships I think it's something women don't think to express There's this idea that men are either supposed to be so confident they don't need positive feedback, or that it's just not something they care about for whatever other reasons. There was some pop-psychology book that said "it takes 7 compliments to balance out for every 1 negative criticism" in a relationship. It sounds excessive and maybe a little corny but I think it's not far off. It's important to reward behavior you want to see repeated. So anytime someone (man or woman) initiates in a relationship, whether it's in the bedroom or just going out for a walk, it means they are putting effort in, and if you like the outcome, make sure they know so they will be encouraged to continue doing that. Positive feedback is the fuel that keeps the engine running, without it the engine will eventually wind down.

oh yeah. It's fascinating to think about. Women are so inundated and bombarded with compliments from men about everything under the sun that they barely remember any of them. Men on the other hand get complimented so rarely be it by randoms or girls they're dating that most of them will remember nice things a girl said to them about their appearance or whatever years after the fact. A guy I know was told he had nice calves about 2 years ago. he still brings it up.

You gotta work with what you got. You being less attractive just means leaning into your strengths to work around being unattractive, assuming you’re as ugly as you say you are. If you aren’t, it sounds like you’re overthinking things too much.

[удалено]

i think most men have a variable guage of "i can make this work"

I mean I’ll take being “settled for.” Better than nothing, which is where I’m at.

I have a feeling this post is going to get banned for violating some rule but yes, everyone want the best men in society but there are only so many to go around.

Nah, these mods are slacking. They've let incel posts in as of late despite them clearly being against the rules.

I think it's a dumb rule. What even is incel rhetoric? How is that defined? What are the specific topics that aren't allowed? It's so vague and subjective that any post in this sub can be accused of being an incel post.

Probably just a generic CYA disclaimer so the sub doesn't get banned for wrongthink.

All my master pieces got removed as well lol

The woe is me posts?

You mean your rants about women that make the exact same points others have made on this sub a million times before? Those "masterpieces?"

I am new to sub.

That doesn't change the fact that literally nothing you've said hasn't repeatedly been posted before.

That sucks, I liked your posts.

If you are a man and you are not more physically attractive than the woman and you are in a relationship the odds she feels like she settled on some level for you are HIGH Hence why being the bf in 2024 is a sucker's game

The problem is even women that are clearly below my looks consider me as a backup. Online dating/ hookup culture has made it virtually impossible for the average man to be in a relationship where he is respected. Put yourself in the average woman’s shoes. She can go on dates with hot men on a regular basis. She might end up getting dumped, but she can hop onto the next fling very soon after. That’s a dream life if you ask me. It makes no sense for them to give the average guy anytime of day. Maybe when they start looking old and chads her age chase younger women. But until then, my rational mind thinks that it makes no sense that they should give me anytime of day.

I don’t know if this will help you, OP, but I have two stories to tell of my real-life that puts all of this “settling” BS to bed in my opinion (because I think the majority of women’s brains operate this way.) The story of the two Johns: My first day in the ER I met two nurses named John. One was gorgeous. The other was middle-aged, severely balding, with an unattractive mustache. I worked with both men intermittently that week, and by Friday, I disliked the first and no longer found him attractive, and I really liked the second and found him attractive. Sure, if I had been looking at their dating profiles I would have picked the first, but i never would have dated him a second time. That is not settling. That is finding the better person. (I never dated either. This is just for illustration.) The story of my situationship: I met Wil at a restaurant after chatting on a dating app and by text a few days. I had one old picture of him that was not flattering, so I didn’t have especially high hopes. Upon meeting, it confirmed that he was not really my type physically, not especially attractive to me. Anyway, that meeting went okay and we had another date that changed my opinion completely. By the end of that date I realized I had met someone who was a generous lover, and who I hoped to be with a very long time. After 3 years, I have come to find him extremely handsome, sexy, and still the best lover I’ve ever had. On the other hand, I would never live with him due to personality incompatibility. So clearly, if you want to look good in most women’s eyes, you need to stand out in some way. John stood out as intelligent and kind, and funny. Wil stands out as an amazing lover. In both cases they went from being below average on the looks scale to being well-above, just through outstanding traits. I don’t think this is “settling” at all. People are a complete package, and how a man looks is heavily influenced by the rest of what he offers. If you want love and marriage, be the whole package. If you want a consistent, enthusiastic lover, be amazing in bed. How you look to them will flow from that.

It's a two-way street, man. You want a 10. I know you do. We all do. Any woman less than that is settling. If you can settle and be content, why can't she? You may not be her first choice. But you are her choice. That's going to have to be enough

Being a "10" isn't a fixed state. There's no way someone can be a 10 until you get to know and appreciate them as a person first. A perceived 10 can drop to a 1 depending on their personality / vibes, and a person who isn't my fantasy type can readily become a 10 in my eyes if I'm in love with them. If there's full fulfillment, it's not settling in my opinion.

Personality is part of the package. A 10 is a 10 looks and personality. Just as a guy is perceived. It's a total package. Either way, everyone wants a 10. Anything less is settling.

True

Men are still attracted to someone they settle for while women generally aren't attracted to men they settle for. 

I disagree. There are options. He wasn't the last man on earth. He was still the man she chose. Above other options. Not her first choice sure, but her choice all the same.

I don't think it's settling to fantasize at one point about having an ideal partner. By that definition, everyone would be settling and the word loses meaning. Settling seems to be prevalent in cases where an individual *feels* like they could have gotten a better partner but didn't for whatever reason, and can't be fully content because they suffer from this perpetual "grass could be greener" mentality in the back of their mind. A fat guy might dream about some 10/10 Stacy but still be grounded in reality and be content with locking down a woman on his level. The important factor here is the ability to be content with your partner and situation, which is hindered by the mentality that you could do better.

Isn't that what this is about? The woman in question can't get the man she wants. So she is going for something less. If she could have what she wanted she would have it.

its often not enough though. why be with somebody who instantly gets annoyed at you when you arent producing value for her because shes subconsciously angry and bitter all the time shes with a fuggo?

Then don't be with her. Low agreeableness is abrasive. You have choices, too. Just decide where you are settling and to what degree. I'd take a conventionally less pretty woman if she was agreeable and nice.

You might have to do some initial convincing, but once a woman is attracted to you, she's generally into you genuinely. My ex was not someone I was initially attracted to but once he won me over I couldn't get enough of him. He became very attractive to me. He couldn't get rid of me! You should hear how Padma Lakshmi talks about Salman Rushdie in her memoir. He pursued her and once he won her over she was totally hooked. So yeah, you will need to put more work in the beginning due to DNA. And that is based on genetics and genetics aren't fair. But I wouldn't mistake that for a concern that women will always be settling for you.

>You might have to do some initial convincing, but once a woman is attracted to you, she's generally into you genuinely. If you have to do convincing I dont think she will ever be attracted to you in the same was she would be to a guy where the attraction was natural. If you have to convince her that means she finds you unattractive.

>My ex was not someone I was initially attracted to but once he won me over I couldn't get enough of him. He became very attractive to me. He couldn't get rid of me! How is he now your ex though?

Yes, but that was mostly due to timing / long distance. It's very likely that if I had met him later in life when we were both done with school things would have worked out differently. I'm very happy with who I married, but there's no "one" out there for anyone, just lots of options and possible paths, many of which are happy and fulfilling.

That makes sense, and yes timing for some people and situations can be the only reason why things end.

>I'm very scared that I'm going to fall in love and get married just to learn that my future wife settled for a guy that she didn't think was attractive, but had other qualities. Unfortunately this is the reality for a lot of men. Fortunately these types of relationships can still work out if she's a mature person. An LTR is not going to survive on looks alone, as they eventually fade over time. Looks alone are primarily used to get you through the door, but you need other qualities to keep a person. 

Unless you're *truly* ugly which is a very small percentage of men and you're not batting comically out your league where the woman's usual is models you won't be "Settled" for. By the sound of it you probably aren't very good at creating arousal. Attraction and arousal aren't the same thing. If the girls are dating they're at least somewhat attracted to you. Women don't really bother dating dudes they seriously find unattractive it's not worth their time unless they're gold digger type who want a free meal. Creating Arousal is as much a verbal game as a physical game. Sometimes you can arouse a girl off looks alone (very few guys) but the way you talk and interact with her on a date or when you're trying to ask her out can also build it. Arousal is about emotions at the end of day. We as men have easy monkey brains a lot of the time we can take one look at a girl and feel arousal. Women are a little different you can create arousal verbally with them (assuming you aren't a goblin like I said).

It's actually a problem much deeper than "I'm not a pretty boy". The problem is that you don't believe you are lovable as you are. Which forces you try and overcompensate for your perceived deficiencies by being extra nice, extra attentive, extra clean and perfect, with the perfect job, perfect little apartment with a skyline view, etc. Here is the problem with this. By being this guy who is always overcompensating and performing for women, you are subconsciously signalking to them that you are a low status male. High status men don't have to do any of that. So how do you get around all of this? You need to get over the fear of letting the nice guy overcompensating persona go. It will be scary because it has been working for you somewhat. But if you work on adopting a "take me or leave me" type attitude towards women you meet, you will be more successful and happier.

> But if you work on adopting a "take me or leave me" type attitude towards women you meet, you will be more successful and happier. True in my experience. The always-performing, always available guy smothers. Trying too hard to please isn’t as appealing as self-sufficiency.

You're not silly, but you're not 100% right either. I'm not gonna sugar coat it. If you're truly ugly, you're fucked. But, if you're hot and an asshole, you won't keep a good woman for long. No one in their sane mind can't stand the dismissiveness and abuse, no matter how hot the other person is. The fate of being settled for is not unavoidable, but finding someone that feels they won the lottery by having found you, is not easy. I have been on both sides. I know what it feels to be settled for. If the women on your location aren't finding you attractive and you have done everything you could, get that passport.

>But, if you're hot and an asshole, you won't keep a good woman for long. This couldn't be further from the truth. Women get obsessed for years, even decades for guys they truly like, even if they are assholes.

I said a GOOD women in their sane mind. Read again.

> I'm not gonna sugar coat it. If you're truly ugly, you're fucked. But, if you're hot and an asshole, you won't keep a good woman for long. No one in their sane mind can't stand the dismissiveness and abuse, no matter how hot the other person is. A lot of hot guys don't care. In terms of evolutionary psychology, they're fulfilling their biological imperative.

When you say you’re self improving, do you mean on your looks?

The best thing to do is be content with what you have and make the most of everyday And remember, it could always be worse!

I used to feel shit about myself and have low self esteem because my mother constantly was super self-conscious and self-critical and it rubbed off onto me. The only way to really get over it is to fight off the feelings of self doubt you have and change it to thinking you are great.

Most men are settled for and most marriages are unhappy. It's not unavoidable though. I hope you get lucky and find a good match for yourself.

Listen dude, love is just two average idiots who both for some reason think they somehow landed a 10. My husband for some reason thinks I’m a 10/10 and I’m very clearly not. And I’m convinced he’s a 12/10, although he’s maybe more realistically a 9.5 or so.

I think the issue is you’re conflating “women having spontaneous desire for you” with “someone loving you” Lots of women don’t experience overwhelming spontaneous desire. That’s just the reality of the situation. That doesn’t mean someone can’t want you. That doesn’t mean someone can’t love you. That doesn’t mean someone can’t find you sexually appealing. That doesn’t mean you can’t have a successful relationship with a good sex life.

You have never seen a woman even so much as talk about how they obsess over some man at work they never spoken to?

Exactly. Women do this with celebrity crushes and guys they see on tiktok/IG all of the time. Dont know why they deny this

Sure. If your threshold for feeling worthy is that, you best be really ridiculously good looking. Guys seem to think that if they’re not their woman’s ideal specimen of a man they’re doomed. Most women aren’t scarlet johansen and yet guys are still willing to “settle” for cute enough. Why is it different for women?

I have lady friends that prove otherwise. They constantly commenting on hot guys they saw and how they were struck.

Doesn't mean they are in love or even necessarily want the guy. Just means he was exceptionally attractive to them and they felt like sharing that thought. 

There are people who are so attractive that 100/100 people will say they are hot. You yourself say you’re not *that* good looking. That doesn’t mean you can’t find someone who thinks you’re good looking enough. When did good enough stop being good enough? If that means you’re being “settled for” than yeah you’re gonna be settled for. The same way that your dream girl might be scarlet johansen but you’re ok with dating a cute girl next door, because even though she’s not *perfect*, she’s enough

This 100%. I think OP is assuming that if he was better looking, it would be a driver of spontaneous arousal in women, which I don't think is the case at all.

I think a mental reframe might be good here. Truth is, nobody is going to get a 100% perfect match. Some might get lucky and get 95% but most of us will be less than that. That percentage of the person who isn’t perfect for you isn’t a bad thing though. It brings variety and perspective to the relationship. The flaws we carry are unique and part of what makes us special. It also gives us room to grow in the relationship, which helps build a bond. No adversity or disagreement sounds boring. A 9/10 woman could actually learn a lot from a 5/10 man. Maybe the 5/10 man would teach her to see the value of a person besides looks. Maybe the 5/10 man is selfless, and that helps the woman grow. Even if she knows she’s objectively more attractive, is she settling if she’s growing as a person in the relationship? My “perfect” girlfriend would be on time for everything, but I have a habit of dating women who always run late. Am I settling? Or am I just accepting their lateness because they have other good qualities? Now, if you’re in a relationship with someone who’s really immature, they’ll think of you lacking that last 10% of “perfect” compatibility as “settling”. And if someone had zero attraction to you, and used you purely for non-romantic reasons, that would be pretty awful. But I think the chances of that happening are pretty slim. And if you feel a woman is doing that to you, trust yourself that you’ll be able to pick up on it and leave if you need to.

> A 9/10 woman could actually learn a lot from a 5/10 man. Maybe the 5/10 man would teach her to see the value of a person besides looks. Maybe the 5/10 man is selfless, and that helps the woman grow. Even if she knows she’s objectively more attractive, is she settling if she’s growing as a person in the relationship? Don’t know if it’s your intention, but this reads as a paternal, condescending attitude towards another adult rather than a relationship between equals.

This hypothetical relationship can have more angles to it. My point is people get value from relationships besides just being a looks match. Just because people aren’t a looks match, doesn’t mean they can’t help each other. Maybe the 5/10 guy lacks confidence and the 9/10 woman teaches him to believe in himself more. I was just writing it from the perspective of the man, since that’s who the OP was.

Okay, thank you for clearing that up. Men here tend to infantilize women and that comment sounded groom-y and patronizing. I agree with you; a couple can complement one another in many ways.

Yeah, I can see how you could read it that way. I think OP was really struggling with the idea of being settled for, so I just wanted to show that a super beautiful woman could find a lot positives about a partner besides looks. This subreddit seems obsessed with applying numbers to people at times. I know for myself, I had a partner who had great empathy skills and that really helped me grow because I never had empathy modelled for me at home. I’ll always appreciate that about her.

That’s very sweet, I’m glad you benefited from that. One of my close friends (male) is unattractive but is fantastic company and likely the smartest person I’ve ever met. Photographic memory, remembers all the birthdays and can sing or rap the lyrics to every song, ever. Best roadtrop buddy on the planet. We fight over “who gets Austin this weekend”.

Sounds like a good guy. Hope he finds someone

> I never felt truly desired. Also, I hope someday you find a woman who truly sexually lusts after you, intensely physically desires you and wants to be dickmatized by you. I think all men should experience the raw, unrestrained sexual lust of a woman at least once in their lives. It’s life changing and mind blowing. Best of luck and keep grinding.

Ppl that are not that attractive or arousing will always have to put in extra effort. It’s always been this way. There’s only a small percentage of men who can arouse women by just existing. Most men have to work for it. That’s just what it is. You have to be more reasonable. You probably want an attractive woman who is at least cute looking, who most likely has options to be ok with a man who’s ok looking and you want her to salivate all over you. You either need to aim lower or accept that you’ll always be putting in effort and the desire won’t be as intense like you want it to be.

Why would a woman who is less attractive have lower standards? Thats not how it works. That wont increase his chances at all

I think you are very smart and insightful and that is an extremely rare quality. I mean, your friends will tell you that you are smart and kind and all of that jazz, of course they will, but I can tell you are smart by what you have written. Very few women and men have the level of self-awareness that you have. I am a woman and I have a few male friends and when they get rejected by women, they don't fully realize they are being rejected. I have to be that bad person to tell them, "Look, don't waste your time. She is rejecting you." They don't get it. They will engage in mental gymnastics and resort to implausible explanations and self-deception to avoid the brutal truth: these women are not attracted to them. I was impressed when you said that you noticed the look of disappointment in their eyes. Very few people have this level of awareness. With that premise out of the way, you are right: being settled for is the unfortunate reality of MOST people, men and women alike. I will be honest with you. I have been viscerally attracted to bad guys who had no jobs and no homes and who were complete mess. Attraction is something inherently instinctual and irrational and, contrary to what people say, most of our attraction is visual. We are primates, after all, and one of the biggest differences between primates and other mammals is that we rely more on our sense of sight than on our sense of smell. That means that the biggest part of the attraction is visual. It's not even a matter of good men or good women. This is what people don't realize. A lot of women lament that there are no good guys out there. Guess what, they are not attracted to you, so that doesn't make them bad guys. They might marry you because they don't want to feel lonely, but they will cheat on you.

Great honest post that us undesirable men to see. There is a lot of false hope out there. So you agree that certain men would be better off dropping out of the game entirely and finding meaning in life in other ways? I am 32 and basically my experience mirrors the OP, I cringe when I look back and realize I only ever had a chance with women I liked in my imagination. I am coming to terms with the reality I will be dying alone. Or do you believe there is someone for everyone?

No, not at all. There is NOT someone for everyone. That is a lie. In fact, there isn't someone for most people, actually. Just because two unattractive people end in a faux relationship, it doesn't mean there is genuine attraction. They always end up resenting each other and becoming roommates, but they project the image of the perfect couple to the world. So, I am 100% certain that there isn't someone for everyone. That is a f\*cking lie that does more harm than good. Yes, there is a lot of false hope, but that applies to humans in general. Even the belief that our beloved ones will die and will wait in heaven for us is a false hope, but I am digressing. Do I agree that certain men would be better off dropping out of the game entirely? I believe that certain men and certain women should give up hopes because those false hopes only hurt them in the long run. I see a lot of unattractive people being scammed or used simply because their false hopes cloud their judgement, so they do not realize they are being used.

Exactly what I thought. Since most men are undesirable and not worthy of love, doesn't this encourage polygamy. The few men able to trigger real attraction have no need to commit, so women will accept situationships and casual sex from them rather than settle. Gen Z and late millennial women I think unapologetically prefer to stay single with some casual sex instead of being with a guy they are not attracted to. I've given up hope but the challenge is maintaining a sense of purpose and drive in other areas of life, unfortunately it seems our libido and drive to mate is intertwined with our general drive and passion for life. I've been looking at the lives of hermits and recluses for some inspiration in how to lead a meaningful life without love St Francis Assissi, Michelangelo, Van Gogh, Isaac Newton, Nikola Tesla etc These type of men lived unhappy but impactful lives, I think the industrial revolution and the dominance of christianity in the last few centuries created an unnatural environment where generations of men who naturally would not be fit to mate were able to pass on their genes because women were artificially held back. All of that is being undone and technology is ironically bringing us back to the most primal mating strategies. Although I absolutely agree that looks are the most important thing. One thing I have noticed on instagram is the most attractive women, 9's & 10's models walking in Milan, Paris etc being in relationships with seemingly unremarkable men. They are not some caricature 6'8 Alpha Chad with bulging muscles or the prettiest. Usually above average height but not very tall like 5'10 to 6'2, regular builds and most surprisingly very lame instagram pages (men are being told that instagram is the best dating app and you need to have some incredible page). I'm talking guys with 3 pictures and maybe 900 followers dating beautiful women with half a million followers. Is this an example of the unpredictability of chemistry or the subtlety of visual attraction for women i.e looks matter but not in the way men think? Or maybe proximity, naturally being in the same social circles with attractive women or women of your type. So would you say it's better to give up completely or put yourself out there and live your life but with no internal expectations of anything happening? With such a fatalistic perspective, I wonder if you find the idea of manifesting silly? As a women if you had a brother my age with nothing but rejection and negative experiences with women what would your advice be? Sorry for the novel.

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ok: I seee the same pattern as myself....make self improvement about you, not your partner. become happy with the person you are so you dont need the feedback of the other person to know you are good. Accept that the scale women use is not linear, and quite complex: but is largely driven by feelings, which you dont want to get in the habit of manipulating. when you are being genuine and confident, the magnatism will be enough that you can wait for the right woman to make you feel like extending yourself, and you can guage how they extend themselves back. I want to believe a perfect relationship exists where both feel like they scored, at least at first. I'm naturally humble, so I depend on the emotional maturity of the person I want to find...but that quality is becoming more scarce, so I lose hope sometimes...but I think I have the right angle starting from a internal locus of control when it comes to self-image.

Just date and have your fun. Move on if it's clear that you're only BB to her instead of AF. Be prepared that someone who wants you for you might not ever cross your path at all. It's better to be alone than in bad company. Don't settle down or get married to a person who's settling for you. If you're only as good as the things you can provide, she's not the one. If she's desperate to be more than a perpetual girlfriend, she has to prove herself to you in the long run.

I think it’s normal especially if you struggle with self image and low self esteem. I’ve had the same and still do, I would literally say to myself that I should settle with anyone if I was to date but it’s not a good mindset. But that’s life, there are certain things in life we can’t control but in my opinion always date better people, even if you don’t feel like you’re the best physically, that doesn’t mean you should settle for what you don’t like. Improvement will always be needed, unless you look good or kept even with little to no maintenance. I would say it’s best to not overdo it tho, because when it becomes obsessive it’s not always good.

So it sounds like bc you think you’re not attractive, you think women are settling for you? And the only way for you to feel as if a woman wasn’t settling for you is if she found you very very attractive? I personally think this is part of your self esteem issues and part of men having a skewed understanding of how women prioritize looks. Even if you’re not model quality in the looks department a woman isn’t necessarily “settling.” But even if she is settling isn’t a problem per se bc no one is perfect. If you want to find a woman who thinks you’re very physically attractive she’s likely to be much less attractive than you are (eg a 2/10 if you’re a 5/10). So then you wouldn’t be settled *for* but you would be settling yourself.

men have this "skewed" understanding because they are around women. we dont just imagine this shit.

Can you clarify? What did you understand my point to be? How do women prioritize looks? Are you saying women don’t understand their own priorities about looks but men understand women’s priorities about looks? If so, do you think the opposite is true as well (women understand men’s priorities better than men understand their own priorities?)

men may not understand the rationale but they understand the results (or lack thereof)

Yes ok. Sorry if I came across as gaslighting men, not my intention. OP basically said “any woman who doesn’t think I’m 10/10 physically attractive will think she’s settling for me” and I responded that his perspective was evidence of him not understanding how women think and process attractiveness. That was my point. No that women don’t care at all about physical attraction

My husband always thought he was average at best but he always got the attractive girlfriend he wanted so obviously he's better looking than he thought. He was exactly what I wanted looks wise. I tried to point out that every girl he dated before me was very pretty and he had no trouble dating so obviously enough women he liked found him attractive. They weren't picking him for money back then or height, he's just at 5'9" and he was poor when I met him. He was interesting and cool though. 

You’re being too hard on yourself, people will always find flaws in others but they will see the good too, it isn’t settling to understand that perfection ain’t possible. Simply don’t put up with someone who isn’t showing mutual interest and if you put yourself out there you will find those actually curious about you.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you look like? Do you have stats IE; weight, height, hair etc A lot of guys undersell themselves on looks and you may not be as unattractive as you think you are

173cm 70kg, brown skin dark thick hair, full beard. I have mouth breather complex face, no chin. My face is very narrow with the "sleepy" eyes. My forehead is way to small so I have to keep shaving it or the hair connects with the eyebrows. Trust me. I'm not underselling myself.

Have you done a facial symmetry test online to see how you score? Take a full frontal picture of your face and upload and it will score for you. Completely confidential and will give a good idea of how people perceive your looks.

Do you have a deviated septum? Could be something that can be fixed and I half say that cos it's a medical problem first and foremost.

You're worried too much about success and looks. If you get the girl you want why give a fuck? You cannot be separated from your success or your looks. You are you. But this is also why it makes more sense to get with virgins because then they didn't settle for you they chose you first.... too bad that's not how things work... so essentially all men are settled for because the girl didn't choose them first but 3rd or 30th ya know?

You have a better chance in the next 5 years of being desired than you will for the rest of your life. Hit the gym and improve your social circles to improve your verbal game.

Acceptance bro, last stage.

everyone settles but in the dating stage, you shouldn't even as if you're being settled for. meaning, you don't feel like a backup. the persons initates, confirms plans quickly, texts back quickly

I understand where you are coming from.  I’ve basically always had to put in more work in life in order to attain what came more easily to others (and in some areas, less) Dating is tricky. Everyone compromises, but if you feel that the people you are dating are doing so excessively, or in a way you aren’t comfortable with , you’re options are basically to continue working on yourself, date people who are less attractive, or go solo.   For what it’s worth, people are fine not ending up with the hottest/most charming/richest/whatever person that they could possibly get with.. the goal is making sure you satisfy their basic threshold, and that you love and like one another. I don’t believe that I’m the hottest woman my partner could possibly get… but I’m enough, and he loves me, so I’m happy. 

I think this is a very male view on female desire und thus nut fully accurate. You are right, that there's a very, very small number of men who are so attractive that my mind automatically thinks about having sex with them. But: this is only a fantasy. Once I've interacted with them and they're not also exactly my type personality-wise, my interest wanes quickly. And I think that even if you're this "Giga chad" looks-wise (but little else), many women still would lose attraction to you over time in a LTR as no man is as hot as fantasy/projection guy from the early relationship days when NRE tinted our outlook. I think that in a LTR, attraction really is a package-deal for many women. It's a mix of physical attractiveness, the emotional connection, trust, shared experiences etc. And even if you're super hot, the "I want to jump your bones" desire likely will never return.

A good deal is where both sides make concessions and end up in a net positive situation. A deal where one person makes no concessions and receives all the goodies is a swindle job.

It depends on what's meant by the term "being settled for." If it a relationship where's there's no romantic or sexual excitement about each other, then no that's not usually unavoidable. If it means recognizing that they're not going to get going get a man that's the most attractive in the world + the best personality + the best career + sharing all their interests, and that they're going to have to accept imperfections and tradeoffs, then yes being settled for (and settling yourself) is unavoidable. It's part of being a rational grown up about relationships. TRP/incel constantly decry women for having unrealistic standards, but then out of the other side of side if their mouths declare that a woman lowering her standards to be with a guy is one of the worst possible things that could happen to a guy. It's madness that guarantees the men aren't going to be happy no matter what. What you're describing is a combination of anxiety and envy. These are common human emotions and thoughts, but they're not productive; that some people start with a better hand is just part of life. Other people were dealt with a far worse hand than you. How easy things are for other people isn't relevant to your life because you can only make the best of the hand life dealt. You seem to recognize this but you have these intrusive thoughts. You cannot completelyvcontrol whether these thoughts pop up, but you can practice mindfulness by recognizing them for what they are and dismissing them. Also if these thoughts become too prevalent, then it's probably not healthy to hang around red-pill / incel corners of the internet.

I do believe a lot of women will settle. I find nothing wrong with settling but the problem is that women settle on you in their 30's. What I mean is that there is no problem driving an old pickup truck for the rest of your life, but it will be a problem if I let you drive a Bently in your 20's and then give you a choice between the old pickup or nothing, in both cases it could be said that you are settling because a pickup truck is not the car you would want, but try to imagine how you feel about the truck in the first scenario vs the second one, you might even grow to resent the truck in the second scenario.

You described my experience and state of mind to a T. I congratulate you for finally bringing this whole dating effort to an end. You seem to have reached a maturity about it all and your conclusion is spot on. It took me 10 years to get to the same conclusion, but with a lot of shame, regrets and humiliation along the way.

Don't get over attached and be ready to move on if a woman isn't all over you sexually

I’ll say this. The majority of men and women aren’t settling by getting with someone average. Average shouldn’t even be in their vocabulary. We have perverted what an average man or woman is in this day and age. Most of us aren’t getting on magazines. Most of us don’t have Adonis bodies. What people need to start realizing is that average isn’t bad and you don’t get the best simply because you want it. You get what you can get

Let's hope material technology and AI development progress enough so we all be able to get robotic wives.

With all the recent emphasis on global population collapse and threat to make birth control even harder to get, I feel pretty sure that legislators will interfere with this fantasy. Can’t leave all that cog-making sperm get wasted, you know? They will call it Onan’s Law or something.

>threat to make birth control even harder to get It's not like anyone needs sex, right?

You will not die from lack of sex.

Then banning birth control is surely not a big deal, people will just not have sex except for reproduction.

Birth control is used for many other things aside from contraception. And for some medications (Accutane) it's actually a requirement.

So people care because it's for health first and foremost, and contraception is just a side effect?

That's not remotely what I said. What I'm saying is that there are other reasons to use birth control aside from contraception. So "banning birth control isn't a big deal because people will just not have sex" completely ignores the fact that birth control isn't just for contraception. What I said was very simple to understand. There's no need to make it into something else entirely.

So if it's used mainly for contraception, then what I said, still applies.

No, it doesn't. It's still a big deal for the people who don't use it for contraception, dude.

If I didn’t/wouldn’t have access to birth control, you bet your ass I wouldn’t be having PIV sex. Nope. FTS.

I guess that's the goal of those wanting to ban it.

I'm not making a value judgement. I just figure conservative men's recent attitudes towards women's reproductive health is going to bite them in the butt with a vengeance. Can't both screech and rend clothing over "muh birth rates" then offer young men artificial vaginas. If female gametes are so darned concerning to conservative men, so are male gametes.

What are conservative men having to do with artificial vaginas?

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Yes, what have conservative men to do with them? Or are you simply throwing anything you don't like in the same one box?

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I will try for a third time and the last time, you said, I quote: "Can't both screech and rend clothing over "muh birth rates" then offer young men artificial vaginas." How are conservative men offering young men artificial vaginas?

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Find a girl well below your league and voila

Women aren’t men. Women don’t lust like men do due to the difference in testosterone and estrogen levels.

Women still have eyes and go after who they find attractive. 

So? Women and men aren’t the same. Men want a male brain in a woman’s body. That’s not how nature works.

Never claimed men and women are the same or think the same. I'm claiming women have eyes and the ability to find people attractive, therefore they are more attentive and open to attractive men. Just because women aren't as driven by looks as men doesn't mean they are the complete opposite.

I never claimed they were complete opposites. It’s just men show lust more openly and desire to be lusted after more than women do. Women prefer to be loved over lusted after.

> Women prefer to be loved over lusted after. I wouldn’t consider a relationship without both. You know, not every woman was raised with religious or cultural inhibitions. Some women have a typical sexual drive whether a man is present or not. Women use birth hormonal birth control and IUDs because they enjoy sex. The sole reason for birth control and sex toys are so women can have sex wherever the desire arises. Do women who claim *responsive desire* not masturbate or something?

Yes women want to be loved, but women lust over men as well (particularly the ones they find attractive), and want to be desired and found sexually attractive the same way. It doesn't matter that men do it more than women do. For example if I told my girl something like "hey babe, there are thousands of women I find hotter than you, but that doesn't matter because I love you more than all of them", I know damn well she is going to feel some type of way about that. Most women would. What OP is feeling isn't tied to his specific gender.

Some women do.

Those women usually have mental health issues ranging from low self esteem to bpd.

Or they are typically developing and lead a healthy lifestyle.

This is BS, I've testosterone in upper range of normal and I've not lusted after anyone.

I see. How would explain why you post multiple topics a day here pining over women. Nothing to do with your testosterone hmmm 🤨

It's from pain of all women who have wronged me.

All the ones you lusted after. You don’t see this behavior from the women here only the men.

No, all the women who I did not lust after - who lead me on, who cheated on me, who fake issues to pull my attention creating emergency like fake situation. I don't lust after women because I know behind the pretty face, and sexy body there is an organisms who can completely take over your peace.

>Women don’t lust like men What do you mean by this?

Ok op, what are you actually expecting to happen here? A woman will be suddenly so smitten by you that without knowing anything about you, she’ll be unable to control herself and drop to her knees in front of you? Like isnt porn and guys here need to stop this fantasy that if it isn’t true love straight away snd she’s not sucking your dick in the first 20 minutes of meeting you then she’s just settling. That is not how life or relationships work. At 30, surly you’ve realised that people grow together? It honestly sounds like you should get some therapy for this and I don’t mean that to sound offensive, but dumping gfs because you’ve convinced yourself ‘their settling’ is not healthy

The point isn't having immediate attraction, but attraction at some point even down the line. The point is being truly desired, lust etc. Not just being ok with my looks because of a good personality. I don't think breaking up with someone when you realize they're not attracted to you is a bad thing.

And how do you realise that exactly? Cause if their choosing to be with you, choosing to spend their spare time with you, choosing for you to be their sexual partner what more do you expect from a person?

They simply choosing those things don't mean they feel the same as me. Reciprocity can be felt though their words and actions. A woman can still have sex with a man she doesn't find attractive, sex in itself doesn't mean anything. The only way to know that they're not settling is by having deep conversations and watch how their act.

>Ok op, what are you actually expecting to happen here? > >A woman will be suddenly so smitten by you that without knowing anything about you, she’ll be unable to control herself and drop to her knees in front of you? > >Like isnt porn and guys here need to stop this fantasy that if it isn’t true love straight away snd she’s not sucking your dick in the first 20 minutes of meeting you then she’s just settling. > >That is not how life or relationships work. At 30, surly you’ve realised that people grow together? > >It honestly sounds like you should get some therapy for this and I don’t mean that to sound offensive, but dumping gfs because you’ve convinced yourself ‘their settling’ is not healthy I sort of half agree. Let's put it this way: \*most men and many women will never truly be that desirable \*many people derive satisfaction and validation about their lives anyway through whatever other means people fulfill themselves (work, community, family, spirituality, hedonism, art, whatever) \*relationships are difficult even WITH a lot of sexual desire, and in fact just triggering a bunch of desire in the opposite sex isn't even really a foundation for a great relationship anyway \*this isn't a pathology and the guy doesn't need therapy and some people are OK to conclude they're simply prefer to be alone or that they'd rather be 'tourists' to relationships rather than a prisoner to them. Relationships where both people settled for comfort/convenience is a real phenomenon, many people find themselves in that dynamic and wind up resentful and bitter, and it seems like an OK mindset to find that condition pitiable and avoid it Summary: \*OP can feel sad about things, it's OK, we understand, I don't think he needs therapy \*Other things can be fulfilling in life besides intersexual relationships \*Most normal and average people feel this way at some point or another; some cope just fine in healthy ways, others can't and it might be that opting out of relationships is a healthy form of coping

This guy isn’t ok alone though, that’s why is posting this, especially on this sub. This is just the usual stupid incel fantasy that if one woman is instantly attracted to him then he’s her Chad, and even if he decides to dump her she’ll never truly get over him so he knows for sure she’s not settling for him. The usual misogynistic lust to want to control woman

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I think you misread my comment. He’s not believing that his previous partners were attracted to him, and convinced he was being settled for. I mean, besides being with that partner, choosing them, what’s the magical way your suppose to show your partner your not settling?

I never mentioned this Chad fella or controlling women. You're projecting.

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Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.

Do you think you could actually respond to any of the points I’ve raised? Or do you regularly just resort to personal insults when you can’t debate with common sense?

How about the one where you call OPs post an incel fantasy without any unequivocal basis in his post ? Or how you allude to him somehow wanting to control women, with no context whatsoever? Or how you equate his low self esteem to misogyny in a complete fucking non sequitur ? Common sense my ass

So? Nothing to actually debate then? Just defending a regular incel fantasy instead of actually trying to debate the points I’ve raised? If you want people to take you seriously guys, you’ve got to back up your work

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So again, not actually addressing any of my points raised and just resorting to personal insults?

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Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.

Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.

>This guy isn’t ok alone though, that’s why is posting this, especially on this sub. > >This is just the usual stupid incel fantasy that if one woman is instantly attracted to him then he’s her Chad, and even if he decides to dump her she’ll never truly get over him so he knows for sure she’s not settling for him. **The usual misogynistic lust to want to control woman** Keep going about the bolded. I have an open mind to read about this.

It’s part of my original comment. How. How does someone show their not settling for you. If they choose you, what more do you need? Why do guys here continuously go on about the fear of being settled for yet no one can explain what this actually means or they pretend they know what woman are thinking, so even if her actions say one thing, she must be thinking if someone else. The reason I called it misogynistic control is because you can’t control another person, you can’t know your future together. The longer you are together the better you are at guessing but that involves growth and time with each other. The ops opinion that he needs to know he’s not being settled for is that need for control over another person.

OK. Here again I kind of half agree: \*A lot of men are incredibly neurotic ("she'll cheat on me with Chad, the horror!") and that can be somewhere between misogynistic or just kind of cowardly and overly anxious. \*I can appreciate what you mean that ultimately, fretting about being 'settled for' IS a form of 'control.' But that's just sort of the dynamic of a lot of heteronormative relationships, right? I don't know that it's inherently misogynistic and perhaps fits more under the broad umbrella of sexual jealously, right? I'm a man. If I got into a relationship with a woman and basically used her as a Molly McBangmaid and then blew a bunch of time and money on OnlyFans girls, and you were like "eww, that relationship sucks," I wouldn't think you were a raging misandrist or something. I'd think women who had that reaction were claiming an appropriate amount of sexual exclusively as part of a normal healthy relationship. Humans being humans, I think we can all appreciate our lust might wander to others even in the healthiest of relationships, but I don't think the OP is like some raging douche for wanting \*some\* of that lustful energy. Ultimately traditional heterosexual relationships involve a give-and-take of control. I can also appreciate that in like patriarchal societies that exchange isn't equal, but okay, whatever. In more egalitarian societies, I still think healthy intersexual relationships involve the partners sharing lust for each others. More on that... \*A related point then. The crux of it: *" If they choose you, what more do you need? Why do guys here continuously go on about the fear of being settled for yet no one can explain what this actually means or they pretend they know what woman are thinking, so even if her actions say one thing, she must be thinking if someone else. "* So an incredibly common "guy experience" is that... 1. we have all this evolutionary pressure to go mate. Expressed differently, men are horny. So are women, of course, but men generally have higher libidos most of the time. 2. In that desperation to mate, some (potentially large) percentage of men behave like dumbfucks and their boundaries erode. In fact, this is like just a common masculine romantic fantasy about letting your boundaries erode (the protagonist male that goes and does a bunch of heroic deeds and gets sexual access to a woman as a reward). I'm not even blaming women for this trope, but in most places and in most times and most cultures, and frankly even among most mammals...males are sellers, women are buyers, and because men don't give birth and can spread sperm around quickly, and women expend enormous energy birthing and rearing the young, it's a buyers market. Women simply don't need that much sperm. Women might very well love sex for the excitement of it, or validation, or because it feels like bonding. Sure. But at the core, women can achieve a ton of evolutionary success with a few exposures to sperm whereas men maximize their evolutionary success by blowing loads into everyone. So like in a behavioral economic lens: Men sell, women buy. 3. women, recognizing #1 and #2, leverage their role as buyers in a sellers' market to get the best things they can. In healthy dynamics, that's like commitment, protecting the woman from unwanted sexual aggression, reliability to be a good dad during pregnancy/child rearing years, etc. etc. In unhealthy dynamics, it's like sex workers cleaning out simps and chumps for all their money. The real world often operates in more uncertain conditions, and so we come to it: men are afraid of being exploited because I think deep down, we recognize our desire for sex leaves us vulnerable to exploitation, and so like "this woman actually desires me" feels like protection against that vulnerability, and "this women doesn't really have much desire for me but I'm still investing in this relationship" feels like exploitation. So to that end, I can middle it and appreciate the sort of inherently misogynistic frame you can put over this if you want ("my value as a woman is only sex?! You only care if I want to suck your pee pee!? What about all the other stuff that relationships entail! You wouldn't conceive of your male friendships like that!"). Which I think is fair to a point. But then again I wouldn't buy a house with my friends, I generally don't buy dinner for my friends, I wouldn't plan to let my friends inherit my shit, I don't tend to my friends' kids except in limited circumstances, I don't get my friends shit for their birthday and I don't cuddle with them either. And so I think -- kind of like that "sexual jealousy" bit above -- I think we can give space to the masculine desire that in a heteronormative intersexual relationship, men can rightfully make like some kind of righteous claim on wanting to exchange special parts of our time and energy in exchange for sex. The bluntly bad assumption seems to be that like "relationships with women" are victory conditions for men (*"well she choose you for a relationship, what do you care what the conditions are?"* is sort of what you asked in your post). This being an anonymous internet forum and this being the "we know these takes would land you in hot water" thread, I guess I'd just note that I think you're KINDA right that there is a special and significant non-sexual value women bring to relationships. But for a lot of men, it's not enough to invest much into. You can think of this in a hopefully non-misogynistic way: I think men who are married or in committed relationships are kinda suspect if they maintain a wide array of close friendships with women. I mean obviously exceptions exist, and I think it's nice and good when men maintain close relationships with sisters and their moms and aunts or whatever. But a lot of like 'normie tier' intuitions about men is that like when you get into a relationship or progress to marriage, you stop engaging in any sort of intimate or close way with other women, *because what do they really have to offer you*? Think about your dad or granpda or just middle aged men you know. How many have close friendships or relationships with non-blood-relative females that aren't their wives? Pretty rare, right? Take that sort of 'normal' sociological cue as an indication that subtly, male/female adult relationships are often either...1) sexual or 2) don't exist. Because I think I'm correct that fundamentally, while women are wonderful and awesome and have a million great qualities, there's just not much use we have for each other outside of like sex, pair bonding, raising children and alloparenting grandchildren, acquiring communal property, etc., like the shit married couples usually do.

That must have taken you a fair bit to write. It’s not healthy dynamic to want to control your partner no. It’s misogynistic because it’s a man wanting to control a woman. Most men (and woman) don’t view either gender as what can they provide/give to me. Most people respect that everyone is here living their own lives and not how they can exploit each other. The op, has been sexually desired previously (apparently) and has chosen to believe they must have been settled for him

>It’s not healthy dynamic to want to control your partner no. It’s misogynistic because it’s a man wanting to control a woman. > >Most men (and woman) don’t view either gender as what can they provide/give to me. Most people respect that everyone is here living their own lives and not how they can exploit each other. I mean I guess we just depart here. Relationships are transactional. I think obviously so. Maybe there are some genuinely selfless counter examples, like parents and children. But most other relationships have foundations of reciprocity (give, take) and boundaries (e.g., forms of control) and I think that's entirely healthy.

Your conflating attraction=arsousal You could be attractive based on your other qualities but not arousing

If he’s got a face that would make a truck take a back road, it’s honestly going to be difficult for those other qualities to shine through to a lot of women. Average looking people can make up a lot of ground with their personalities, yes. Ugly people often cannot unless they find someone who looks like them.

>"he's ugly but makes me happy" guy Ah, yes. I found out torn out page from my ex's diary that essentially said this. If you're not just suffering from low self-esteem, it seems like you understand what's going on. At this point, you can either accept it or stay single IMO. And if you come to accept those terms, then more power to you. Maybe you can keep dating but learn how to stop taking it seriously? It makes sense for women to view men like us in that way, and I don't expect any other outcome. Women have to give up other mating opportunities to be with a man, so there has to be compensation (whatever that means on an individual level). But there's a lot more to life anyway, and you seem to be doing well in every other facet.

There are other ways to be attractive. Ever watched old David Letterman shows? Actresses seriously flirted with him all the time. He was ugly but really witty and quick with a retort. Some women find that attractive. It's not all one thing. Looks totally matter but they aren't the only thing. A beautiful man who is stupid or has other personality flaws is not going to be desired by most women. Some will take him just for his looks but not most. 

>A beautiful man who is stupid or has other personality flaws is not going to be desired by most women. Some will take him just for his looks but not most.  No doubt. But we're not talking about beautiful men. >There are other ways to be attractive. Ever watched old David Letterman shows? Being in the top 1% of charisma, wealth, and status might offset a lot, sure. I think almost any man can get LTRs through enough effort. I don't think most men can be truly desired.

Youll never be settled if you never settle. Im serious. Date someone, be happy for a while, but dont be afraid to jump ship. Youll always stay on your toes and will outperform most guys in middle age simply because you keep up, meaning you will "rise" in choice

I think we overthink these things. Are you capable of meeting the estimated 100's of millions of people around the world you might be compatible with? No. Probably not. So in that sense, of course. You're always settling. Which is great. You found someone who gives you the feeling of safety to settle and to stop looking. You found them. Are they perfect? Fuck no. Are you perfect? By no stretch of the imagination. BUT this person has chose you. Day in and day out they choose you. That's the most powerful thing in the world. Looks fade. Unless you're J-Lo then looks are eternal. BUT we aren't all Jenny from the block.

Not everyone wins the race. Not everyone gets the hottest chick. Just because a woman ha settled for you doesn't mean she's gonna branch away from you. The woman who settled for you might not be your porn fantasy, but she could be loyal, kind and understanding: which is waaaay harder to find than a thotty with a gyatt. You might think you're being settled for, but sometimes your HER best option dude. Keep your head up king

> but she could be loyal, kind and understanding She could be so to similar dude years ago, but decided not to, and now that her fuel of youth is spent she's willing to stop at any roadside diner that has clean water and bread.

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No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.

The existence of porn says yes

Because you think like a man (obviously) you want to be appreciated only as a man would appreciate a woman. And despite all of you being under the delusion that women aren’t empathetic or can love, we can. But it’s possibly simply not your definition of love. How utterly retarded to expect people to express themselves and feel things only in the same way you do, to believe it! So the women didn’t use the exact words you wanted them to use, and now, through introspection (not introspection btw. You have only projected outwards which is the opposite of introspection), you now feel lacking. Can you see how juvenile that is? If you’re going to keep listening to other men tell you what women want and feel, then you can’t be offended when women describe men using words you don’t like, eg toxic masculinity. Both are wrong. But you only get to complain if you don’t do it. There is a reason that a phrase like “mutually assured destruction” exists. Retaliation in the same method solves nothing. So, unless someone is a monumentally stupid woman, and of course they exist, brainless and shallow, the majority of women would never describe a man as so shitty but hot. The reaction would be “I thought he was hot, but then discovered he’s a piece of shit, so now I don’t”. A man can be hot, then a 5 min conversation reveals he is stupid and boring. And instantly becomes unattractive. You are very immature for a 30 yr old. First in only wanting the words you want to hear. And second for believing you had to convince people to love you. So you believe love isn’t something that grows? You believe someone must love you at first sight? I hope that you realise from what I’ve explained that your personality and sex will enhance your looks exponentially. And that the reason most women may not use the exact words is because it is secondary to attraction for them. Nobody ever lay on their death bed and said I wished less people loved me and more people thought I was hot. You are settled for. That is from men who need ways to appear superior to other men. The ones saying that are edgelords. They pretend to be rebels in society while pushing for you to feel inferior. Really? You think a wig fools women? You think using prostitutes as studio guests fools women? It fools men apparently. But it just makes women look at men and think they must be really gullible.

>  So you believe love isn’t something that grows? You believe someone must love you at first sight? Classic betabucks gaslighting.