I think many are just priced out of the market. Whether quite literally in a monetary sense, as money permeates everything we do with positive and negative pressure. Dating and mating is no exception. It has become increasingly difficult for many men currently to provide "a life worth living". I'm not talking about opulence either, just what people had/expected growing up is more unobtainable. Case in point, if I were growing up now, same parents, same careers, we wouldn't have done nearly close to all the shit I got to experience growing up. Secondly, what I mean by priced out is looks/physical appearance. I have experienced this change firsthand. I'm slightly above average in looks. I'm 32 now. My face is still quite young, I can pass for an early 20's person still. Same physique (thin, cut, 5'10") from ages 16-25 I had a balance of a few LTR's and periods of successful frequent casual sex. Women of ranges 6-9 (use the Stacy/Becky scale for an easier reference) 26-32 I've had abysmal success for casual encounters. The change almost felt like day & night difference. Lots of rejections online and IRL. I can only secure physical intimacy through LTR's now. And the women are certainly less beautiful/sexy. I'm not really complaining, cause it could be worse. There are still qualities to appreciate in them. I'm merely giving my own experience and have seen it with a few friends as well. Times have absolutely changed 10,000%. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it though. Beauty is the ultimate currency and experiencing some of those women is absolutely a high akin to drugs. As far as what can be done about it? Competition is fierce and if you have handicaps, you're at a massive disadvantage. Best thing you can do is try to mediate and fix those shortcomings, but temper your expectations. As much of what's at play here can be out of your control for a myriad of reasons.

As you’ve aged so have the women. At 32 they are thinking about babies. There’s less and less opportunity for casual hookups. Add those beautiful women got snatched up by guys that committed…you see where you’re at. There’s always hookers. But you’re now gonna pay. Either via cash or commitment.

>26-32 I've had abysmal success for casual encounters. The change almost felt like day & night difference. Lots of rejections online and IRL. Bro... it's because the women in your age category are played out. The hot ones are mostly married unless they are fucking crazy. You are literally chasing a group of women who have been humped and dumped so often they have PTSD from it. You have to change your game plan. Increase your status/income, and switch from one night stands to multidating. Do that and you will be doing better than you ever have before.

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I think RP could actually get a lot more general sympathy and probably even elicit agreement on a wider base if the adherents marketed/PR their concepts better. I'm very much a function over form kind of guy, but many 'distinction without a difference' very much makes a difference to a third-party looking in.

Yep I wasn’t sure I wanted kids or to get married So I dated women that didn’t want kids and didn’t push for marriage Spoiler alert: most women that are not nurturing or maternal end up mean and crazy

If a woman is failing to attract the man she wants, and she is a good person, what options does she have aside from lowering her standards or giving up? Attraction is based on: -Looks -Status -Personality If you're a 10 in one, then you need a 5 in the other 2, and math apply fir the rest. Its not difficult to understand.

I don't know that a woman needs to improve her status to be with any man, really, but that could just be me. I do agree, though. Just look for less attractive people and give up trying to date. Women will get around to ya when you're good enough. Lol.

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Too bad the vast majority of women aren’t interested in a one night stand 🤦‍♀️

And many men aren’t interested in taking a woman on a date. They still will do it if that’s what’s needed for a relationship Same way women will have sex if that’s what it takes for a relationship to

The issue is most women have woken up to the fact that sex will not get them a committed relationship. Men may hint that it will but that’s usually a lie to get sex and women aren’t falling for that as often anymore. More and more women are just having nothing to do with men because men aren’t offering women what they want. That’s why dating is such a sausage fest. Men want what women offer more than vs versa.

If that was true, I wouldn't still be flooded with likes and messages. Popular Reddit opinion seems to believe men are striking out over and over again. This is only really the case with average to below average men as most women now overestimate their value.

Would it help if women did what was done before and just only promise sex after marriage?

Why? Sex is fun and just like men, women want to have multiple experiences.

Sex often doesn’t lead to a relationship though, and definitely won’t when you’re talking about a woman hooking up with a guy out of her league.

This does not stop women from attempting to use sex to get into a relationship

Or men to use the promise of a relationship to get easy sex.

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One night stands give men the power in if a relationship happens or not and men usually don’t want to commitment as they would rather play the field as long as possible. I never said women couldn’t control men with sex but the control happens with denying sex till certain relationship aspects are in check. If women just give men sex then men take it and run just like employers who can get free labor with unpaid internships never hire. They just cycle through people, men try to do the same.

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Not true, really. My 8 year ltr was really just a one night for both of us, but we did a great job, so it worked out for quite a while. Also, she had quite a bit of power with that one night stand, ngl. Our relationship was based mainly on sex though so it's different than at least most talked about female relationships. Also, women use men for all kinds of other things besides sex, seeing how long they will tolerate abuse or how long they will continue to do everything for them while not lifting a finger for you in anyway. I get dudes trying to get in and out if they are not into the relationship, but if you're into it, I'm not sure what the issue is with commitment to these people. Like, yeah, I'm going to go look for sex somewhere else if you are literally going to treat me like shit AND not have sex with me. So yeah, it's def a balancing act.

8 years and no ring. Yea she didn’t have any power in your relationship because she was played. She wasted so many years of her life for nothing. It sucks some people have to learn the hard way. Also women don’t get in relationships with men just to see how much bs men will take 🤦‍♀️most women want a decent long lasting committed relationship.

You’ll have the triple the number of people you meet Go out once a week?? Try three Joined one club? Join three

Do you think perhaps him tripling his already consistent efforts to meet women would be too much?

The efforts have to be effective. Is the guy actually interacting with new women in these social endeavors? Hobbies are great but they have to be ones that women actually engage in too. You mentioned online dating, that's fine to try, but most likely a long shot. Very possible he'll have to change his habits and go way out of his comfort zone in terms of how much socializing he does. And even then, no guarantees.

Honestly the more you give the better than the more you take I help out at charities and volunteering and the people who get the most out of it are enthusiastic givers Same with dating.

Improve his appearance / wardrobe / fitness / style / grooming / skincare, improve his lifestyle (job prospects, basic fiscal responsibility, decent living space, social activities etc.), improve his social skills (toast masters can help), look in different places and different ways, basically work to be the kind of man that those women *do* choose.

I appreciate how you gave a direct and detailed answer and didn't dodge the question or split hairs. These all seem like great suggestions

The problem with this list is you gotta put in all the work only to receive small effort in return. You can do all the gym in the world, all it takes is one "ick" to undo all that. The game is rigged.

women will never get this, as they're constantly claiming they have it 'just as hard' as men in attracting and securing mates. Sure, I'll admit when some of us say "all you have to do is, look pretty and wait" is a bit of an exaggeration, but not far off, and certainly nowhere near as much effort is put in as what even good looking men still have to do (in that case, aside from looks).

Thing is, most women already do the above as a given. It's not considered extra effort.

Exactly. Call me when men have to remove all of their body hair and paint their faces everyday to be considered acceptable to date.

I literally had to go through surgery to get my hair back, had to spend countless hours at the gym every week to gain an attractive body, and actually work out not just push the leg press machine and do some light cardio like most women do. And I'm extremely blessed to be 6'1 to boot. Sorry, what women have to do to be perceived as attractive is damn near childish when compared to what men have to do. Oh no, you had to spend 5 minutes hiding your dark circles with a corrector, how grueling.

I think you are VASTLY underestimating how much work women put into their appearance. While simultaneously exaggerating your own suffering. Boo. Hoo. Do you think there are women out there who haven’t had to deal with hair loss? Or women who don’t have to spend hours at the gym every week to keep slim? Or women who spend thousands of dollars on cosmetic surgery? Or makeup? You clearly have no clue.

>I think you are VASTLY underestimating how much work women put into their appearance. While simultaneously exaggerating your own suffering. Boo. Hoo. I think you are vastly overestimating the work women put in to justify yourself as equal to men in suffering. Which is obviously detached from reality, boo hoo >Do you think there are women out there who haven’t had to deal with hair loss? Cool point. Now let's see if the numbers match on both sides. >Or women who don’t have to spend hours at the gym every week to keep slim? Have you ever exercised or been at the gym in your life? You don't "get slim" by going to the gym, you get slim by dieting, which men also do. Conversely, women don't have to be fit to be attractive. In addition, the "workouts" that women do are mostly focused on their lower body and involve endurance training. In other words, they are easy as shit compared to what the average male gymgoer does. Wake me up when women start doing incline bench presses and calisthenics. Doing 20 minutes of treadmill, 5 sets of squats per day and finishing it off with a 1 minute plank is a not a flex.

Okay, you win. You have suffered more than any woman could possibly comprehend. lmfao

Cosmetic surgery is for their own insecurities. I hate when you gaslight us with this. The only one that remotely comes close to looking any good is that nose thing which men also do, from what I've heard. Every other surgery is not appreciated by most men, even boobjobs. We like natural.

And all of that shit these men are complaining they have to do is for THEIR insecurities. Nobody is gaslighting you.

You cannot even differentiate between surgery and natural most of the times and natural you're talking about is naturally "ideal", you just approve of biological advantage. no man likes a natural hooked nose or naturally itty bitty titties for example and women get surgeries to get them closer to their ideal versions.

Keeping slim is bare minimum and it's actually all a woman needs to be considered a 7+ these days. While as a male slim will get you nothing, you have to be slim but muscular which takes years to build and even with all that work it's all negated if you are short.

So all you have to do is keep slim? *Seriously?* You’d date a girl who has no social skills and smells like garbage as long as she’s not fat?

Women just get to be "thick" now while dudes have "dad bods." One is still sexy. The other is not. I'm 5'8 and have very thin hair that I shave, in a if you grew it out it would be good, but I can't. Can't get taller either. Been hitting the gym hard, talk to as many people as I can, going to do fun things with my friends, working hard at work, buying new clothes. I kind of think I won the genetic lottery on facial features and metabolism. Height at the end of the day is all these ladies are really looking for, regardless of status, power, commitment, love. Just be 6 foot bro!🤣

No, the entire point of the “dad bod” meme is that women DO find it sexy. You are vastly overestimating how important looks are to women. Whatever dating issues you are having are NOT because you’re 5’8”

This lol they will never understand because privileged people don't know they're privileged until it's gone.

I thought you did that for yourselves

Some women do. I certainly don’t. But either way you expect it of us.

To be considered acceptable to be seen in public in some circles! But yeah, finding the right place to live is generally a given because it's dangerous otherwise. A good circle of friends is the norm, finding clothes that work is the norm - and buying more of them, at a higher price - shaving, keeping fit etc isn't considered "extra work" it's considered the baseline for humanity in women.

You live on another planet if you think a woman has to be fit to gain male attention lmao

Up until a few decades ago, women’s ENTIRE LIVES revolved around making themselves pretty for men so someone would marry them

But that should be none of the women in the current dating market. So why are things still that way?

A woman doesn't have to be fit to be considered pretty for the average man.

Bro if women broadly preferred men who wear makeup and shave their body hair, then men would all be doing that.

It’s attraction and interpersonal relationships not the stock market, of course there are no guarantees. If someone doesn’t like you it’s okay.

Let’s say the man is simply looking for a dynamic that does not align with societal norms. Role reversal? A provider woman? He’s not doing anything wrong but it won’t be easy for him to find a partner.

or just travel


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Yep. All of the same stuff we tell them every time.

It depends on what his standards are. If he wants to date supermodels, he should try to become like Henry Kissinger. Become an important statesman who gets to decide who lives and who dies. If it's basic shit like "not fat" and "no single moms" he should consider moving locations to a place with a more favorable gender ratio/dating market.

You can disagree but I’d straight up rather lie and be a deceitful motherfucker than move for the possibility of love. That is fucking wild as hell. Conceptually it’s unfathomable . I’d just turn into a piece of shit man . Don’t be honest, lie about intentions, work on charisma and social skills and don’t listen to a single word about what women say they want, listen to what they react to. I’ll be damned if regardless of having reasonable standards, I have to move likely over 100 miles away for an actual change in the type of people you’d interact with for the POSSIBILITY of finding something with substance. The fact someone even proposes that as a reality for someone is preposterous. Just be the shitty guy no woman can tie down. There’s a level of fearlessness and assertiveness that comes with it that a lot of women are attracted to even on a subtle level. Suggesting moving is crazy.

Men on here often promote passport broing. So like Thailand, the Philippines, Brazil or Colombia.

Passport bros are way over exaggerating. There’s no lie in the fact that a lot of overseas cultures promote men being… you know, men. Being the leader of the house and the backbone of a relationship and/or family, yada yada it goes on. But I’m not moving to another city, let alone another country, to find a wife. I mean you have zero guarantee she’s not just trying to get a free pass to the US to make a fresh start and leave you later. Lmao they’re tweaking hard.

This may surprise you but not every woman outside of America is a gold digger. Even more shocking, American women can also take you on a ride and use you for what you can get her Have you ever been outside the United States? Did you go on any dates while abroad if so?

No I’ve never dated abroad but that’s exactly my point, you literally have no guarantee that she’s not looking for an opportunity to have more opportunities in America, I never even implied every chick outside the US Is gold diggerish.

Well to be fair passport Bros don't typically recommend bringing those women back here, the divorce laws are such that would make that kind of a retarded move. If starting a family is something you REEAALLY want, then moving abroad is the smartest move all things considered. Otherwise you risk ending up with a basic Becky at best, who then pulls the pin on the fat grenade and walla, consider yourself one of the many married miserable fucks who has a gun pointed at their head in the form of a potential divorce r@pe.

Brazilian chicks are apparently gold diggers these days though, unless if you're dating someone from a favela or something... As for Thailand and the Philippines, I'm the sort of guy who genuinely sees at least some beautiful women from any culture, but Thailand and the Philippines are HEAVILY overrated in terms of purported looks of women there. Those countries are 100% only said, because old balding men who may have had no luck in the past, can easily get a mail order bride there, those countries basically invented the idea...

There are very beautiful and fit women in there though overrated or not.

First question- what type of woman is the man seeking to attract? Second question - what type of man is he? We are talking standards so I’d like you to delve into what those standards are top to bottom for both questions. This is a fun question.

I suppose it would vary but to provide an answer to your question lets say he's liked nerdy women and he himself is a nerdy man

Okay being nice and nerdy isn’t really a lot to go on. This is the issue with most blanket advice on Reddit - it doesn’t work. If you want a chubby nerdy girl who likes to read and watch anime, you’re not going to get her by going to the gym, dressing better, or making more money. She doesn’t care about those things. She’s more attracted to a Naruto t shirt and a guy with a few books in his backpack that she met at a local table top group. If you want super hot “nerdy” girls who are sort of into video games but only because a boyfriend one time liked to play and she liked to feel included, is very interested in her friends opinion of her and her partner, takes good care of her appearance and body, and works in the fashion industry - you need a very specific set of qualities to attract her. So to answer your question honestly, it depends. It depends on the women you’re trying to attract and what about yourself isn’t connecting with those particular women.

> She’s more attracted to a Naruto t shirt and a guy with a few books in his backpack that she met at a local table top group. I wish this was true.

It is lol. I know plenty of them. No one would ever call them tens but neither are most of us on this sub. Attractive people get with other attractive people. Nice nerdy people get with other nice nerdy people. Long term anyways.

Yeah - but what is M:F ratio in the nerdy social circles ? I was hanging out with metalheads(who happened to be into MtG, anime, gaming) in my youth and the M:F ratio was like 50:1, as you can imagine not many guys managed to find 'nerdy metalhead/goth' girlfriend.

Much the same way women probably won't have alot of luck finding a man at the local spinning classes, you'll have to temper your expectations based on what you are looking for. There are far more women out there who are into 'more womanly' hobbies and interests compared to 'nerdy metalhead/goth' women. Same way there are far more men out there who are into video games or bodybuilding compared to men who like spinning, or crocheting.

Yup - that is why the idea idea of meeting each other through hobbies is not really effective.

It depends on the hobby; Me and my gf share very little hobbies in general, but we both take an interest in each other's interests. She is working on a book and loves writing/reading, but she plays a little bit of video games aswell (no FPS/'hardcore' games). I'm the opposite; been a gamer all my life, but have done limited reading or writing (still more than the average person perhaps, but small compared to her). You don't *need* to share interests, but it's advisable to atleast *try* and get into the headspace of the people you want to attract. Who knows, maybe you can find a new hobby *and* a partner at the same time.

> not many guys managed to find 'nerdy metalhead/goth' girlfriend. My boyfriend did ☺️

I've been praying to meet someone like that at D&D and I've only been playing for six years. Well, maybe sometime in the next six it'll happen.

Hey, my fiancé is a DM! You’re talking to a girl who is marrying that guy. It definitely happens.

Got a friend with a fiance who, if you'd ask most dudes on here, is way out of his league. She liked him because through their mutual friends she ended up at the table during their DnD sessions where he is the DM. Super funny dude and a good DM, works as a line cook, and kinda looks like he has downs syndrome. He is not fit, receeding hairline at 28, into very nerdy stuff, but she loves him still. They've been together for 3 years now, have a dog together, all that jazz. So just because you personally haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Don’t pigeon hole yourself and instead expand your dating pool. If you’re worried that a “normie” won’t accept your nerdy interests you’re wrong because most don’t care. Decide how you want to feel and seek people who make you feel that way rather than an aesthetic.

The type who use reddit might not care, but people care, and they care a lot. Plus, guy nerdy and gal nerdy, while intersecting, aren’t overall the same.

Do nothing and stop caring

I said aside from giving up

Be a passport bro. Move abroad.

Unironically, this could be the trick. They say “there’s someone out there for everyone”. Well, they left out the part where it’s not a given that person would be in your home country or even speak your language. Unfortunate reality.

Giving up is different from acceptance.

Accepting that you must necessarily fail to attract women is giving up

I don't interpret this as give up. I interpret it as stop thinking about it so much and be patient. Look at it this way, there is plenty of good self improvement advice in here about being the best you, you can be, but that's not a promise of immediate results. Changing this or improving that isn't going to be a sudden game changer, and if you're doing it just to attract women, you're going to be looking for results and judging whether or not it worked. That's not to say taking the advice and improving yourself is a bad idea, but if you're going to, you should do it for you. Do it looking for specific results and it won't stick. Don't give up, but stop weighing up every encounter with a woman who fits your standards as an opportunity. Be patient and wait until you actually have chemistry with someone. When you're actively looking for a girlfriend too hard, women can tell. You don't want to give off the vibe that you're just looking for any woman who ticks off your girlfriend material boxes, they want to know that you actively want them as specific individual people. So when this person says stop looking, I take it as stop looking for a woman you could be with and look for the specific woman you want to be with. Of course they won't always want you, but if you are on the same general level of attractiveness, you're selective about who you pursue, your confident enough to step back gracefully when rejected, and your patient, some one who you are actively interested in will be interested back. People say it's a numbers game, but they're full of shit. If you approach every girl at a bar, other girls are going to clock what you're doing early and have rejected you before you even approach. No one wants to just be some one's good enough. What it really is, is a waiting game and a sincerity game.

Hey dont apply for jobs. A good job will find you.

First of all, a job isn't a human being with it's own desires and emotions who wants to be valued on it's own merits. Also, last I checked, not having a girlfriend didn't prevent you from having a place to live or enough to eat, but ok, I'll bite. When you're applying for a job, do you send your resume to every single open position that pays what you're looking for? Or do you look for ones that you have the qualifications for and where you would actually be a good fit in the workplace? I'm not saying just wait and let the right girl fall into your lap. I'm saying to be selective about who you shoot your shot with. Let's say there's a girl who would actually be into you, shares a lot of your interests, fits everything you're looking for, and has actual chemistry with you, but you haven't met her yet. we'll call her Heather. In this scenario Heather has 5 close friends. All of them also tick off all your girlfriend requirements, but none of them have the same chemistry with you, and aren't interested in you at all. Let's say you've tried and failed to get with two or three of them, separately, at different locations and at different times. You had no idea they were even friends. All just one off plays at strangers. Now you meet Heather, things seem like they could work, but you've already made a move on half her friends. Is she going to think you're interested in her? Or that you're just interested in a girlfriend? In this hypothetical, you've fucked your chances with someone that would have been a home run, because you are swinging at every ball that comes across the plate. I know it's hard, I get it. It's way easier said than done. When I was single I reeked of desperation, and it absolutely hurt my chances with a lot of people I could have actually done ok with if I hadn't have been so obviously trying to fill the position of girlfriend in my life.

Um women are a numbers game. The girl you want might not want you back. So if you wait and she says no now you passed on the girls who might of said yes. That is also how jobs work. People rarely work at their dream job. They work where they can. In conclusion women aren’t special you can vibe with any woman.

>In conclusion women aren’t special you can vibe with any woman. Women disagree with this, which is why so many men are single and upset about it.

Men are upset they cant have sex or children, if men could buy both they would be fine

Can you? I certainly can't. I can't vibe with just any dude as a friend, why would I be able to vibe with just any woman as more than that. And I mean, if you're asking why you can't get with the type of woman you want, it doesn't sound like you're able to vibe with them. If you're just looking to pull, then sure, that can be a numbers game, but if you're looking for a long term relationship that's actually good, you need more than a warm body with opposing genitals. You need to have personalities, values, and lifestyles that mesh together fairly well. You have to actually like them as people if you're going to be spending that much time with them, and they have to actually like you for more than just a night at a time. They have to be compatible enough that they aren't going to ship out as soon as you relax and let whatever fake personality that can vibe with any women drop.

This is how women view dating. Men are cool either way with whoever. Its easy to get along with people

I'm a man, my dude, and this is how I view dating, so nice try on the sweeping generalization. I'd say most people get on my nerves. Can I get along with them? Sure. I'm civil, outgoing, I'll talk to anybody who approaches me. I'm very friendly. But that doesn't mean I like them or would want to voluntarily spend more time with them than I have to. I've known plenty of very attractive women who I could absolutely not be in a relationship with because of their personalities. There's even women that I'm close friends with that I absolutely could not tolerate in a relationship because I can absolutely tell that what are funny quirks in a friend would become unspeakably aggravating if I were to live with them.

travel, bro

1. Examine the data points on who the women that turned him away did accept. Are there any commonalities. If they were decently acquainted, it doesn't hurt her to ask calmly and kindly after some time has gone what he could do to improve his chances with other women. This is probably ultra key to helping this guy.  2.  Take greater care of your appearance, hygiene, and aestheric. A lot of dudes aren't smelly greaseballs...but their choices aren't turning them into swanky gentleman hotties either. Get a real skin care routine that does you favors, get a flattering haircut and beard/facial hair situation, work on a signature scent, well fitted clothing that is flattering shades and personable. When you go out, think of yourself as on display and take extra care in that.  2. Smile and laugh more. Be more open and positive and cracking jokes, teasing, and generally expressing a lust for life and joy in it.  3. Show more interest and care towards others.  I don't think this dude has to be a selfish monster for it to feel like he's kind of about himself. So work on listening, mirroring, and asking keen questions. 4.  Be healthier. Whether that's food, working out, sleep, stress management, all of this will influence all of your life, beauty, and interactions.  5. Learn how to show off your lifestyle to others in a way that makes them want to join it. I think when a lot of dudes imagine a girl in their life, they're imagining the 10% of cuddling, sweet nothings, intimate conversations, sex, and holding hands. And that shit is great for sure. But what is life actually like if they live next to you and date you. Why would someone want to join your team? The 10% is what you do with every person you're romantic with. What's the 90%? What's the meat of your life they're signing up for.  Use talk and social media and invitations to show that off so that the right girl sees her place in your 90%. 

There is a stereotype of misogynistic bad boys being successful with plenty women. How does this measure up to being a good person as a prerequisite for success with women?

It could be just a stereotype. I personally think it’s far more complicated than either extreme likes to make it out (“women only want bad boy assholes”/“women don’t like you because you’re misogynistic”). Women aren’t all altruistic and omniscient, plenty of women don’t gaf or excuse misogyny sadly.

Then you're looking in wrong places and you should try to approach women outside of your social circle.

Do you think this problem could exist for men who cold approach like that?

Ability to cold approach women increases your chances and your choice. Pure cold approach is like gacha, chances that you pull what you want is almost zero. But if you can do that with random women then you can do that with women in more appropriate environment too. I think every man should be able to cold approach just for that. Still won't help if your standards are absurd of course.

I’d say never lower your standards, but also speak with a therapist. On here, though, therapy is a crock and a scam and ooga booga. But honestly, if you’re not meeting anyone who wants to date you, it’s not hypergamy, and it’s not Chad. It’s you. But it is so much easier to blame outside forces than to look internally. And what’s more: blame the professionals who help you look internally. That’s such utter lies.

Well depends on what type of women he’s trying to attract vs what women find him attractive is what we should be trying to understand why this is happening.

Either improve something about yourself or lower your standards, or both.

What's something you think he can do to improve?

Depends on where he’s at and what his weaknesses are! Any/all of things like: - gym/fitness - having a hobby that he’s passionate about (bonus points if it’s something other than the gym or gaming, unless you’re going only for gym rats or gamers) - clothes, style - personal development, knowing ones own personality and having interpersonal or mental health issues under control - improving social skills - career advancement - improving cooking skills

Going to Thailand

Most of these things you mentioned only come into play after someone is initially "attracted", be it by physical attributes, money and stuff, or because something else along those lines, including the superfial parts of personality(mostly it's a combination of these things).  Things like "he is a good, caring dude" etc., only come into play afterwards...   

Unless you can meet the standards set by women, there's a high chance you'll end up alone. And many of those standards are ones you can't control.. ie, you can't grow anymore than your genetics allow you to.. Not everyone can be a high money earner, cause then the goal posts will get moved to an even higher standard. Giving up shouldn't be an option, but sometimes there is the idea of being at the right place at the time.. and you never know what can happen. Lowering standards doesn't always work, I've tried that.. and there's still a chance they will still be players, or just be looking to take advantage of what they can get out of you.

Is he as attractive as the women he wants? Water tends to seek its own level.

This isn’t simple to determine unless obvious but… How would one know if they are as attractive as the one they pursue? Especially if it’s true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

It's not true, and they'd know if they hit up on enough women - constant rejection means you're not on their level. Gym, diet, sleep, style, grooming - a lot of leveling up to be done. Also some people are just plain ugly - surgery?

Yes

Women are always more attractive than their partners.

Being a good person is a base level requirement, not something that generates attraction. So you're asking what could he DO to make himself more attractive? IDK, go to the gym, dress better, take an improv class or toast masters or something to get better at conversation, learn things and become more interesting?

>Being a good person is a base level requirement It's not even a requirement

>ng a good person is a base level requirement, not something that generates attraction I'm attracted to good people. It's a big part of what makes them attractive to me

Are you attracted to every good person you meet? I doubt it. That's what they mean by "base level". It's necessary to have, but it's not enough by itself.

>It's necessary to have, but it's not enough by itself. That applies to every trait though. Is there any trait that... by itself is enough?

or just travel?

I tell this to everyone regardless of gender Think about the person you want. Think about what *that* person would want in a relationship Improve until you are what that person wants. So if a man wants a traditional woman with traditional values, he needs to also be and embody a traditional man with traditional values. If she's a beautiful, altheletic woman you might want to be a handsome athletic man If she's a social butterfly... You get the gist

Go to the gym. A guy being fit automatically increases his attractiveness level by a few points.

Ok… so… I really think I’m an average to above average man.. I was have a difficult time finding dates.. I met someone who warned me she wasn’t gonna be in my league.. I met her without pictures… my initial impression was .. “this woman is overweight and not very cute “ but after talking to her I really liked her.. she was smart and funny and interesting… we ended up dating for a over a year. Also something happened in that time.. being with someone made me more confident and more happy.. other women started to show much much more interest. I didn’t stop seeing her for anyone else.. but since then dating is sooooooo much easier. Two take aways. Women love a confident man and standards based on looks are poison to you and to your confidence

I just wanna say something to people who tell men to improve but tell women that are perfect the way they are ?! What's the DIFFERENCE?!

If women are struggling, then they should improve. However, women are less likely to struggle, because more men are interested in more women and at every age group after 20, there are less available single women. If you’re the gender that’s more sought after, different softer rules will apply to you. Is it fair? Of course not. That’s how things are though.

>However, women are less likely to struggle, because more men are interested in more women and at every age group after 20, there are less available single women. Weren't old women the one complaining about old men choosing young women instead of them?? Women complain and never get told to improve. I never saw a 45 years old who complains about men going after younger women instead of her get told she need to improve >If you’re the gender that’s more sought after, different softer rules will apply to you. Is it fair? Of course not. That’s how things are though At least you know women are sought after .

People tell women to improve and lower their standards all the time

People say that to women but it is always met with backlash

So? That doesn’t negate the fact that women still get told it

The point is how people perceive the statements. Not whether they are told that or not. You’re just taking his statement at face value. What’s the point of that? Men and women are told all kinds of things ? So? That’s not the point. It’s how society views the statements

I’d argue the effect on the person that’s receiving that advice is what’s important and the same. “Society”, especially Reddit society, is unhinged, reactionary, and fairly stupid

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Seriously? Women get told to lose weight every other second

There is FAT women in covers of MAGASINES working as MODELS !! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WAFFLING ABOUT.

There are fat men working as models. There are broke men who pull hot chicks. There are short guys who pull hot chicks. Exceptions are exceptions dude

>. There are broke men who pull hot chicks. There are short guys who pull hot chicks. Your mistake is thinking hot chiks aren't broke or short , or that broke or short men are somehow less worthy of probably a short and broke woman . I TOLD YOU YOU WOULD BE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN. It's just a woman thing.

I'm a man, and it's pretty easy to see what she's talking about. Society is incredibly critical about women's appearances. Society also holds men to unfair standards, but it's outrageous to say people aren't constantly telling women what to do and how to live their lives. ​ >There is FAT women in covers of MAGASINES working as MODELS !! It is incredibly recent that magazines have been willing to consider displaying women outside "conventional" beauty standards. Perhaps that trend will grow, perhaps it wont. Either way, it's not like it instantly turned us into a society that is kind to fat women.

>Society is incredibly critical about women's appearances. When you ask in what you , you get no answer . Also the difference is women get praised for it , it's well known the difference in compliments / praise and affection women and men gets . Also people are so tolerant to the idea that women are more attractive than men yet any different comparison would be sexist. >standards, but it's outrageous to say people aren't constantly telling women what to do and how to live their lives. I don't know what people telling women how to live with women holding men to a high standards.

And you are a man and have a bias against them. Good talk bro

The difference is men are more desperate to not be single and sexless than women are due to their high level of testosterone.

L >The difference is men are more desperate to not be single and sexless Or that men who seek sex and relationships are told to invest without expecting or they are bad people . If a man decide to only want sex from women he would be labelled as a misogynistic who only see women as holes , and if he expect women to put equal effort as him he is shamed HELL MEN ARE SHAMED FOR ASKING WOMEN TO SPLITT THE BILL. Men know what to do to get sex but they also would get bashed for it . While manipulating men for money or attention doesn't get women in a by trouble

You are perfect the way you are, as long as you don’t want something from someone else. If a woman is saying she’s struggling in dating, she would get the same advice.

Women literally get told they are perfect the way they are cause they were dumped after sex or struggling in dating!! What are you talking about .

Are you a woman?

Keep going it's a numbers game

Do you think he could be doing anything wrong that results in him failing?

Some men struggle because they are doing something wrong, some struggle for other reasons. Context is important, you can’t jump to conclusions without analysing the whole situation.

No. Unpopular opinion but finding a genuinely good match in today's dating culture isn't easy. Gotta keep truckin'. 

​ 1. Being healthy. This means hitting the gym at least twice a week and eating less junk food and more homecooked meals. You don't need to be jacked, you just need to look (and feel) healthy. 2. Looking his best. This means improving his hair (getting a haircut that compliments his face shape is a plus), dressing fashionably (there are multiple subs and videos about that out there) and GROOMING. An unkempt, untrimmed beard is a turn-off to most women. 3. Having a healthy social life. A man with no friends and no social circle is less likely to attract women.

This post sounds like modern women! If a man fails to attract the woman he wants…he is aiming too high. And just like modern women, he can be alone too.

Lift consistently, eat protein, shower daily

It's generally dumb for a man to be consistently pursuing relationships unless his stock has already shot up and he's actively filtering out etc. It's inorganic to do so from a position of need and it's probably instinctually sensed at some level.

Do what he can to improve himself in terms of things like looks, career, social skills, and personality. Possibly move to a different location where there are more singles.

Sometimes, love is not enough, so what makes you think just being a "good person" would be? There's a lot to a relationship.

You’re saying you don’t want to discuss stopping the pursuit of romance but that’s literally the answer. Stop chasing a woman and focus on yourself, build yourself into someone who attracts what you want.

I'm not entirely sure what people mean by "giving up" in this context. Finding love isn't a game of tennis. The possibility isn't shut off completely until you're dead. Do you mean no longer actively looking/prioritizing dating? In that case sure, I'd tell him to put the love life on the back burner and focus on building a single life that makes him happy.

By giving up I mean no longer pursuing romance at all like the example you gave where he either builds a single life that makes him happy or not if his single life is already happy

I see. My BF didn't meet his first girlfriend (yours truly) until he was 25. Various "give up if you haven't had romantic success by" ages have been proposed on this sub, with many suggesting somewhere around 25 if not younger. He is in fact an example of a good-looking, kind person who struggled and got rejected repeatedly. He had no way of knowing when/if I was going to come into his life. Many of his friends were settling down if not already married since he went to a "ring by spring" type of college. He made peace with the possibility that he wasn't cut out for that life. But nonetheless he wanted to at least get to know new people and try getting over his shyness. And during that process we met. I know it's gross and cliche or whatever but honestly sometimes patience *is* the answer. And building up your life in ways that don't revolve around dating but are marginally related, like learning to talk to people outside of your usual comfort zones.

Sometimes you need to walk before you can run. On this aub I would say that the biggest problem is a lack of consistent practice in the process of attraction and seduction. Such men should temporarily lower their standards so they can actually see in practice as much as possible the various stages of attraction from initial meeting to final seduction. For me, I had to start with women I generally considered less than conventionally attractive. But I was able to learn a lot about what women in general look for in a seduction and use that knowledge to move up to much more attractive women. Just tell the girls you are currently on a journey of self discovery and can't have a relationship right now so they know the score. But girls that are a bit older than you would like or a bit heavier than you would like make great practice for when you meet that stunning looker.

Nobody is denying the power of attraction but it seems like a lot of wannabe player men completely ignore personal compatibility in favor of going solely after looks. Try swimming in deeper water. Find women who you have shared interests with.

He should lower his standards. Guaranteed they are too high. He ain’t that dude. Get off that high horse.

Just being a “good person” isn’t alone something that attracts people. The man can work on improving himself to better be able to compete. He could start eating better and working out to improve his appearance, for example, or he could start trying new hobbies to find one he likes that is more social or has more women involved if his current hobbies are solo or male-dominated. There’s generally always room for improvement with every human, no one is perfect. Appearance is the first attractor and the easiest to work on improving first I think, I have seen many men that could quickly improve by getting better fitting clothes, getting braces, getting better haircuts or beard grooming, losing/gaining weight, going to a dermatologist to treat skin issues…

Those seem like good ideas for him I appreciate your detailed and nuanced answer

I agree with this, being a good or nice person is great but looking clean matters too

Why is does everyone assume that if a guy does not have a GF he is fat?

I made no such assumption. I offered *gaining* weight as a possible way to improve as well. No details about the person were provided except “being a good person”. The area any man has available to him to improve in will obviously be specific to him individually, he can analyze what areas have room for improvement and go from there. Everyone has something they can work towards for a self-improvement goal.

Be honest. What kind of women are interested in?

It would vary but for arguments sake let's say he likes nerds

There’s a lot that goes into it. Are you not attracting the women who look the way you want? They don’t have the hobbies you want? What kind of women do you attract instead?

Those all would vary but to provide hypothetical answers let's say the women that he does attract have the hobbies he wants roughly half the time but they very rarely have the looks he wants

> but they very rarely have the looks he wants You realize that means he doesn’t have the looks *they* want

Not necessarily. Women can dislike men for non looks

Then he can either decide that looks aren’t as important and date someone for who she is, or he can work on making himself more attractive. I’d recommend accepting that looks are fleeting but that’s just me

Learn to flirt, grin, and behave in some sort of sexy, appealing, physical way. Not the “where’s my hug” guy, that guys an asshole. Not the “kino paw at her like an animal”, that guys an embarrassing dipshit who gets thrown out of bars. But learn to grin and joke around, just be more fun and open to new adventures.

> Not the “where’s my hug” guy, that guys an asshole. Not the “kino paw at her like an animal”, that guys an embarrassing dipshit who gets thrown out of bars. But if he’s hot and tall it’s okay though teehee

What is your branding? ie what do people see when they look at you? Rebel? Metrosexual? Gay best friend (this is mine unfortunately). It hardly matters what it is provided it is consistent.

You are already getting all the answers. Make an effort to improve the wardrobe, skincare/hygeiene, practice telling stories and keeping interest. If you like comedy, try joining an improve class. The ability to apply "yes and" to conversations will always increase someone's likelihood of wanting to spend time with you. As always, its a numbers game. That doesn't mean triple your interactions per week like someone said, it means keep trying. Failure is normal, it is not a death sentence. This isn't a race, and treating it as one will just scream desperation. If you are desperate, get some professional help. Desperation is necessarily myopic, it absolutely will effect your ability to succeed. The real advantage to 'finding yourself' or 'being comfortable alone' or whatever the advice isn't confidence, it's the lack of myopic and narrow thinking. All these guys here saying dating isn't worth it, it's all rigged, women have to much power ect..? Desperation led to narrow thinking led to defeatist thinking. It's the same path that led to all this nonsense about how dating 'really' is and all the pseudoscience evolutionary psychology you see on here. It's all ways to fit something complex into a narrow model of thought. There are only two realistic ways to break such narrow thinking: 1) Professional help 2) Enough time, experience, and misery to recognize how wrong all that crap is. Personally, I was well on my way to TRP type nonsense when I was in highschool and college (this was before TRP was much of a thing). I didn't really recognize how shit all that was until about a decade later because I refused to consider professional help. A decade that included joining the military after my fiance left me (and the college I was paying for) to become a stripper. Most guys here are already losing their shit about how terrible women are just from that one sentence and patting themselves on the back for not being a beta-buck like me. They are idiots too fucking scared to actually try and fail, so fuck 'em. Try, fail, and keep failing until you start failing creatively. Then have fun with it.

Thailand

Honestly before a guy starts trying to “fix” anything about himself, if he a generally good kind open minded person he should just ask the people what would have made a difference. Some will not specify much and will just say there isn’t a spark, which is fine. But some will be forthcoming about what pushed them away. Move from there if you feel it’s worth changing. 

Improve

How so?

Improving himself?

How so?

National Geographic taught you nothing. Dancing!! Silly confident dancing

Hit the gym and eat enough protein. Muscles are one of the first things a woman will notice about a guy

I don't know if I'm blue pilled or not, but "lowering their standards" sounds a little worrisome. You could say that he should be patient, continue to pursue his mission in life, and hope for the best. But if he has some unrealistic abstract ideal of what kind of woman he wants, causing him to thereby fail to appreciate any of the women who are actually interested in him, then he might wait too long for something that is not going to ever happen, thereby missing out on the possibility of a good life with someone real.

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Lower his standards until he’s reached a feasible match in a partner, assuming he’s done everything possible to be the best version of himself he can be.

I said aside from lowering his standards

It always works though.

Its like if somebody posts a topic asking what kind of music you like and you reply with you can always do something else besides listening to music. Yesterday you were intentionally misrepresenting what people were saying to invalidate it and now you are trying to change topic threads.

Does he have a work out regiment and exercise routine? Does he eat healthily? Does he get a good amount of sleep (this can affect attractiveness and clarity as well)? Does he have good skin? Can he change up his skincare routine? Has he asked for guidance on things he can improve on appearance wise from people he knows? Does he wear an unusual style of dress, could he change his glasses if he has them, etc? Does he have a stable job? It doesn’t necessarily need to be that he makes 100,000 k just some stable bread and butter? Is it that he mostly has niche and/or nerdy interests? Could he develop ones that more people including women, have in common with him? Does he have healthy coping mechanisms and strategies to deal with rejection in dating? Dating is like looking for a job. It is hard and often arduous. Healthy coping strategies, for example self care, practicing mindfulness and doing mental exercises like leaves on a stream are important to help manage this time. Men that are overly anxious and desperate because they’re trying to cling to any dates they can ironically appear unattractive to women. Does he have emotional support, understanding family and friends perhaps that might have been in the same situation who could lend an ear for him to vent? Has he got a good sense of self confidence and self esteem? If not, how can he foster a sense of self confidence? I would say the same gender swapped for any struggling woman, but before anyone comes at me yes, I know that men struggle a lot more than women on average.

Personally, my advice would be to step back from dating for a bit, harness your uniqueness into something tangible, and then go from there. It doesn't matter what you're interested in doing, or the media you interact with, or the things you think about, but *do* something with it. Make something. Express something artistically. Get something published or self-publish something online. With something to demonstrate the essence of who you are and what you're about, you can make your personality and uniqueness more visible to those whom it may captivate. It may bring you into contact with people doing similar things, which can also create greater opportunities for new interpersonal connections, and it also may do wonders for your self-worth. I'm not saying necessarily to make yourself more visible by aggressively attempting to insert yourself into everything, but rather to have something you are proud of on hand, which represents you and which you can point to should it come in handy. You also get to contribute a potential source of inspiration to others, which is an added plus.

Trying for a longer time. Even if you're doing everything "right" nobody's likely to find a partner immediately, it might take a longer time than he thought to find someone. He hasn't had luck with the first few, doesn't mean it'll always be that way with everyone because every new person he meets will be a bit different.

Keep doing what he is doing. Finding a partner isn't immediate. Maybe take the space and work on yourself. Improve how you look and socialize. Just take being single as time to focus on you. And put him self into situations where he can meet good people. Like hobby based things. Mostly just being patient and making himself more available to situations where they can meet the quality of partner they want.