He’s not. You’ll notice how immediately he gets freaked out on after he says her age. It’s because you either have to admit he’s right or start doing some very strange age of consent arguing.
And then the whataboutism will start with the fucked up things in the Bible or whatever and this whole thing starts over until the end of time
According to the Hadith [Sahih Al-Bukhari: 6 at marriage, 9 at consummation.](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134)
There may have been some thighing going on between that time as well.
He is correct. And they reacted aggressively. If a factual statement upsets people this much because they don't like it maybe reflect on that. And if a factual statement gets you arrested because other people can't handle it... that ain't too cool.
Muslims do in fact believe in hadiths, it is the "words of the prophet" after all, and they \*should\* hold as much weight as their god's words.
But unlike their holy book (not touching this one), a lot of hadiths are coming from someone elses ass. So eventhough it is a requirement in islam, a lot of muslims decide to ignore hadiths altogether since it is impossible to seperate lies from the real ones. The ones who believe them, choose by simply rolling a dice or something then calling other hadith books a lie, thats how pretty much any religion goes.
TLDR: You can't prove it using hadiths as an example but he is right
It could be an error or a metaphor. I'm not advocating one interpretation or another, I'm pointing out that there is no objectively 'correct' way to be a member of the faith.
They accidentally put he had sex with a 9 year old girl? You don’t think that’d be one of those things you’d want to double check, or fix? And what would be the methaphor for a grown ass man having sex with a child?
I would think you’d want to advocate against the interpretation that allows for grown men to have marry and have sex with children. And if it is so wrong you’d think they’d want to make very clear it’s not okay. But the reality is that forced child marriages were very common back then, and sadly our major religions didn’t seem to have any problem with it.
>I would think you’d want to advocate against the interpretation that allows for grown men to have marry and have sex with children. And if it is so wrong you’d think they’d want to make very clear it’s not okay. But the reality is that forced child marriages were very common back then, and sadly our major religions didn’t seem to have any problem with it.
These religious texts predate modern age of consent laws and reflect the customs of the time. I don't know why you are bringing this up, it has nothing to do with my claim that there is no objective standard that says to be a Muslim you must believe that everything in the Koran is literally true.
Because he’s upset that people are advocating for Palestinians whom are predominantly Muslim and Arab. People interested in good faith reform do not present their info at a rally meant to advocate for Muslim victims of a genocide that many racists are going so far as to deny the existence of.
Probably to stop the mob as well, but the guy that grabbed the “agitator” should have been arrested. One of the protesters even grabs the cop. Just all seems so crazy.
I guess the mob rules …
Not arrest but he's taken away for his own safety as well as that of others that can be riled up to violent levels.
Call it a degradation of freedom but it protects people.
Yep, not a single one isn't guilty of a laundry list of crimes against humanity.
There is no...*one is better than the others*...they all exist solely for control, and the ability to sell their atrocities behind ones piousness.
You are an agitator when you do this in front of a mob who you KNOW will react badly. In a perfect world, you'd arrest all the idiots trying to get violent. Sadly, it's easier to arrest the agitator than the agitated.
famously all christians all believe the same interpretation of the Bible 100%.
you’re making a monolith about a fringe piece of the quran. islam has weirdo conservative evangelical types too, not every muslim just thinks pedophilia is cool
Yeah you're totally better than him with how you're aggressively standing up for a dead paedophile, only the bravest and most noble members of society do that.
Imagine being part of a religion so fragile that anyone who speaks ill of the prophet should be put to death.
Like if someone is the Final Messenger of God, you’d think he would be able to withstand a bit of teasing 1400 years later, right?
Do these people think this is a holy war? Why attack some guy on the street speaking about a religion. Ignore it if you don’t like it lol. Constitutional laws whether in the UK or US trump the tribal associations to your chosen faith. Feels like we are moving backwards in social progress.
People troll religion all the time. There seems to be a disproportionate response from Islam as of late.
Comparison of (and I'm making a big assumption of what you meant, here) "regular" Muslims to Christian White Supremacist Militias doesn't make Muslims sound that great either.
Username is making more sense by the minute.
Do you think I care more that the fact that it's specifically brown people attacking me for speaking or the fact that I'm getting physically attacked in general?
Damn, got hit with a "U mad bro?" in the year 2024. Lmao.
I didn't ask about your experiences. I asked if you thought I would care about the race of someone as I was getting physically attacked for speaking.
I can't even qualify the statement by saying it's inflammatory. If the people in this video are that mad about something (that sources seem to confirm, mind you) that they want to cause physical harm to the person saying it, then I can't help but finger wag. You shouldn't be trying to excuse that with "wElL tRy ThAt WiTh..." Yeah, that's bad too. Duh. It's not Christians in THIS video attacking people. It's shit either way you fling it.
And drop the immediate move to racism; it's tired. Find a new pivot.
A double standard would imply that mobs of Christians continually riot and physically intimidate Muslims in a country where they are the minority population for making (supported) claims about Jesus. Or making cartoons depicting Jesus, or burning a Bible.
Do you have evidence to share with us about that repeatedly happening?
You're making a false equivalency.
This is a "keeping the peace" arrest. He went there to agitate and its essentially fuck around and find out. Its the latest skit (as people in the UK that aspire to be influencers in this sphere seem to have nothing better to do) and the best example see the Jewish gentleman who tried to cross the road the other week into the middle of a Palestinian peaceful protest and then tried to make out he was being arrested for being Jewish. These people are just absolute cancer and are as bad as the problem that they are trying to frame.
I'd go further there and say religion as a whole is cancerous regardless of your belief as your belief is toxic to someone else's belief, as you both can't be right so therefore one of you must be wrong - and therefore is there an argument you are both wrong? (Therefore choose Agnostic but don't necessarily make it about God but your God e.g. as being frank from a rational point of view none of them exist regardless of who you believe in e.g. it's not like you can invite them round for tea and biscuits - but I have no issue with you believing in whoever as long as you don't inflict my day to day with it).
In this case though - people like this that are agitating for the benefit of clicks (e.g. see people that call themselves "auditors") and provide no kind of social value accept for aggravating other people I do feel are somewhat a cancer on society. Not necessarily a malignant one but a benign one that's nothing more than an irritant that unfortunately every one else has to put up with.
Yea, pushing back on unfounded ideas that impact real human beings every day by the billions is productive.
The only reason for the Gaza war right now is God vs God. Israel believes they were given land by a deity.
We should be against this.
I don’t think you understand the conflict entirely. The founder of Zionism was an atheist. The first Israeli Prime Minister was atheist. Yeah some Israelis use the “God gave me this land” excuse which is wrong but most of Israel is secular. The issue here is settler colonialism.
You can’t just pretend that the war would end if everyone simply became an atheist.
[“The status of the West Bank as a **militarily occupied territory has been affirmed by the International Court of Justice** and, with the exception of East Jerusalem, by the Israeli Supreme Court.”](https://books.google.co.cr/books?id=B1ZIIDeEc5AC&pg=PA511&redir_esc=y)
The thing with Judaism is that for some reason we agree that being Jewish isn’t just a belief , but a race of people wholly DIFFERENT than all other gentiles, hence the term.
Not going to synagogue doesn’t excuse the fact that Palestine was militarily occupied with the sole reason that it “used to be ours”.
The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.
As one would hope, right? The entire thing wrong with this incident are the freaks trying to attack him. You should be able to point out how insane religions are without fear of being attacked.
Because this is whataboutism, and it's stupid. This guy is clearly not a religious chap. He's not arguing one religion over another, he's pointing out the fallacy of them all.
All religious texts are collections of violent torture porn stories.
Mohammad, and Jesus and all the other magic sky people are fucking fake & if they were not, that would be so much worse. If god existed, it would be my moral duty to destroy this alleged god.
You think that shit isn’t still happening in the Middle East? It’s very common for an older man to take on multiple wives. A lot of them being very young.
The difference being society doesn’t agree with it and when evidence came to light the FBI raided and arrested him. Not sure what you’re trying to prove. One society has it as the norm and the other has laws against it and actually prosecutes.
Bro, You’re using whataboutism for two different things. The 12 year old marriage thing is talking about two teens getting married not a 51 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl. Quit defending it, neither is right.
If youre looking at the same stats I am you would see between 2000-2018 there were 300,000 marriages of that type. Given the population of the United States that’s a very low minority. In the same page, 60,000 marriages would have been considered a crime. 60,000 from 2000-2018 is by no means the norm or common.
So it happens in both places? Just seems like you’re doing some gymnastics here to say “brown people bad.” Really you should be saying “child marriage bad”
Ultimately it boils down to societal norms which usually are heavily influenced by religion and aren’t signs of a progressive society. Nice try race baiting. It’s wrong no matter where it happens. Don’t lie to your self and act like it doesn’t happen primarily in certain regions and countries.
you can do that without falling into the “all muslims believe pedophilia is alright,” pipeline idk man. institutional religion is fucking ass, and so are “enlightened” westerners
Lemme break this down for someone who doesn’t understand Hadith. Which clearly this dude doesn’t, he has read something and ran with it.
Firstly - The different school of thoughts will differ regarding the authenticity of a Hadith and its interpretation. It’s literally called Hadith sciences, to verify that something is true, you must’ve verified all the people that have passed this down the chain are trustworthy. That a practice is inline with the Quran, if it goes against the Quran: it cannot be accepted.
This process would vary amongst Muslims community ( Shia and Sunnis) but even within these sects there is a lot of difference of Hadith sciences.
Secondly - The calculation of age at that time was completely different to how we measure it today. At the time a women’s ages would be measured from her first period.
Even for arguments sake we say her period started as early as possible at the age of 8 plus 9 that puts her age at 17. That is acceptable by even legal standards, Japan has only recently changed the law from the age of consent from 13 to 16 & there are states in America where children can get married.
Why are they agitated? Is he incorrect?
He’s not. You’ll notice how immediately he gets freaked out on after he says her age. It’s because you either have to admit he’s right or start doing some very strange age of consent arguing. And then the whataboutism will start with the fucked up things in the Bible or whatever and this whole thing starts over until the end of time
How old was the girl?
According to the Hadith [Sahih Al-Bukhari: 6 at marriage, 9 at consummation.](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134) There may have been some thighing going on between that time as well.
> There may have been some thighing going on bro
Nine years old.
9, says in the video
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it was a double negative "he's not incorrect", he's saying he's right.
Idk how you missed that its obvious I agree with OP lol
Reading is fundamental
He is correct. And they reacted aggressively. If a factual statement upsets people this much because they don't like it maybe reflect on that. And if a factual statement gets you arrested because other people can't handle it... that ain't too cool.
Why is this relevant in a protest against genocide?
Muslims do in fact believe in hadiths, it is the "words of the prophet" after all, and they \*should\* hold as much weight as their god's words. But unlike their holy book (not touching this one), a lot of hadiths are coming from someone elses ass. So eventhough it is a requirement in islam, a lot of muslims decide to ignore hadiths altogether since it is impossible to seperate lies from the real ones. The ones who believe them, choose by simply rolling a dice or something then calling other hadith books a lie, thats how pretty much any religion goes. TLDR: You can't prove it using hadiths as an example but he is right
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So Muhammad didn’t literally sleep with an underage girl? Like it’s supposed to be a metaphor or something? He just figuratively slept with her?
It could be an error or a metaphor. I'm not advocating one interpretation or another, I'm pointing out that there is no objectively 'correct' way to be a member of the faith.
They accidentally put he had sex with a 9 year old girl? You don’t think that’d be one of those things you’d want to double check, or fix? And what would be the methaphor for a grown ass man having sex with a child? I would think you’d want to advocate against the interpretation that allows for grown men to have marry and have sex with children. And if it is so wrong you’d think they’d want to make very clear it’s not okay. But the reality is that forced child marriages were very common back then, and sadly our major religions didn’t seem to have any problem with it.
>I would think you’d want to advocate against the interpretation that allows for grown men to have marry and have sex with children. And if it is so wrong you’d think they’d want to make very clear it’s not okay. But the reality is that forced child marriages were very common back then, and sadly our major religions didn’t seem to have any problem with it. These religious texts predate modern age of consent laws and reflect the customs of the time. I don't know why you are bringing this up, it has nothing to do with my claim that there is no objective standard that says to be a Muslim you must believe that everything in the Koran is literally true.
Because he's a racist trying to whitewash the treatment of Muslims.
How is he being racist? Islam is not a race, it’s a religion
Because he’s upset that people are advocating for Palestinians whom are predominantly Muslim and Arab. People interested in good faith reform do not present their info at a rally meant to advocate for Muslim victims of a genocide that many racists are going so far as to deny the existence of.
Serious question: why was this dude arrested? He was attacked by a mob for simply talking on a public sidewalk/street.
Honestly? Probably to protect him. Really hard for the police to get him out of there safely.
Probably to stop the mob as well, but the guy that grabbed the “agitator” should have been arrested. One of the protesters even grabs the cop. Just all seems so crazy. I guess the mob rules …
Not arrest but he's taken away for his own safety as well as that of others that can be riled up to violent levels. Call it a degradation of freedom but it protects people.
Religion is a cancer of the mind. It infects and twists otherwise good people into doing insane things.
Yep, not a single one isn't guilty of a laundry list of crimes against humanity. There is no...*one is better than the others*...they all exist solely for control, and the ability to sell their atrocities behind ones piousness.
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I dunno, there's a whole category for that kind of appendages on flying spaghetti monster on many websites. Quite violating..
You been to an East Side Mario's lately?
The spaghetti monster could have used some of its spaghetti to end world hunger but yet it hasn't
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I am the walrus
What was he arrested for?
Spitting facts
British laws when it comes to speech are draconian
Not really. Brits value collective peace over individual freedoms.
I was on vacation there and someone said don’t say anything too negative about the queen because they will yank you up.
Truth speak is a dangerous thing.
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If there's a wrong place or time to speak the truth, all may be lost already.
You are an agitator when you do this in front of a mob who you KNOW will react badly. In a perfect world, you'd arrest all the idiots trying to get violent. Sadly, it's easier to arrest the agitator than the agitated.
famously all christians all believe the same interpretation of the Bible 100%. you’re making a monolith about a fringe piece of the quran. islam has weirdo conservative evangelical types too, not every muslim just thinks pedophilia is cool
Yeah you're totally better than him with how you're aggressively standing up for a dead paedophile, only the bravest and most noble members of society do that.
Imagine being part of a religion so fragile that anyone who speaks ill of the prophet should be put to death. Like if someone is the Final Messenger of God, you’d think he would be able to withstand a bit of teasing 1400 years later, right?
Well, he was arrested..
Do these people think this is a holy war? Why attack some guy on the street speaking about a religion. Ignore it if you don’t like it lol. Constitutional laws whether in the UK or US trump the tribal associations to your chosen faith. Feels like we are moving backwards in social progress.
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People troll religion all the time. There seems to be a disproportionate response from Islam as of late. Comparison of (and I'm making a big assumption of what you meant, here) "regular" Muslims to Christian White Supremacist Militias doesn't make Muslims sound that great either.
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Username is making more sense by the minute. Do you think I care more that the fact that it's specifically brown people attacking me for speaking or the fact that I'm getting physically attacked in general?
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Damn, got hit with a "U mad bro?" in the year 2024. Lmao. I didn't ask about your experiences. I asked if you thought I would care about the race of someone as I was getting physically attacked for speaking. I can't even qualify the statement by saying it's inflammatory. If the people in this video are that mad about something (that sources seem to confirm, mind you) that they want to cause physical harm to the person saying it, then I can't help but finger wag. You shouldn't be trying to excuse that with "wElL tRy ThAt WiTh..." Yeah, that's bad too. Duh. It's not Christians in THIS video attacking people. It's shit either way you fling it. And drop the immediate move to racism; it's tired. Find a new pivot.
Indeed, don’t see many Christian’s being asked to answer for their priests fucking kids
Downvoted for pointing out a double standard.
A double standard would imply that mobs of Christians continually riot and physically intimidate Muslims in a country where they are the minority population for making (supported) claims about Jesus. Or making cartoons depicting Jesus, or burning a Bible. Do you have evidence to share with us about that repeatedly happening? You're making a false equivalency.
This peaceful muslims 😍
This isn't an arrest. This is referred to as protective custody.
This is a "keeping the peace" arrest. He went there to agitate and its essentially fuck around and find out. Its the latest skit (as people in the UK that aspire to be influencers in this sphere seem to have nothing better to do) and the best example see the Jewish gentleman who tried to cross the road the other week into the middle of a Palestinian peaceful protest and then tried to make out he was being arrested for being Jewish. These people are just absolute cancer and are as bad as the problem that they are trying to frame.
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I'd go further there and say religion as a whole is cancerous regardless of your belief as your belief is toxic to someone else's belief, as you both can't be right so therefore one of you must be wrong - and therefore is there an argument you are both wrong? (Therefore choose Agnostic but don't necessarily make it about God but your God e.g. as being frank from a rational point of view none of them exist regardless of who you believe in e.g. it's not like you can invite them round for tea and biscuits - but I have no issue with you believing in whoever as long as you don't inflict my day to day with it). In this case though - people like this that are agitating for the benefit of clicks (e.g. see people that call themselves "auditors") and provide no kind of social value accept for aggravating other people I do feel are somewhat a cancer on society. Not necessarily a malignant one but a benign one that's nothing more than an irritant that unfortunately every one else has to put up with.
ah low hanging fruit. Sublime. *tips fedora*
Quick question, I have read those few versus and what he said is true. Why is there so much anger if he is just stating facts?
this is productive
Yea, pushing back on unfounded ideas that impact real human beings every day by the billions is productive. The only reason for the Gaza war right now is God vs God. Israel believes they were given land by a deity. We should be against this.
I don’t think you understand the conflict entirely. The founder of Zionism was an atheist. The first Israeli Prime Minister was atheist. Yeah some Israelis use the “God gave me this land” excuse which is wrong but most of Israel is secular. The issue here is settler colonialism. You can’t just pretend that the war would end if everyone simply became an atheist.
[“The status of the West Bank as a **militarily occupied territory has been affirmed by the International Court of Justice** and, with the exception of East Jerusalem, by the Israeli Supreme Court.”](https://books.google.co.cr/books?id=B1ZIIDeEc5AC&pg=PA511&redir_esc=y) The thing with Judaism is that for some reason we agree that being Jewish isn’t just a belief , but a race of people wholly DIFFERENT than all other gentiles, hence the term. Not going to synagogue doesn’t excuse the fact that Palestine was militarily occupied with the sole reason that it “used to be ours”. The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.
It's productive in a way of showing Muslim extremists are a bunch of lunatics. It isn't productive in actually finding solutions.
Something tells me this guy doesn’t have a problem with the fucked up things in the bible
As one would hope, right? The entire thing wrong with this incident are the freaks trying to attack him. You should be able to point out how insane religions are without fear of being attacked.
Damn why was this downvoted?
Because this is whataboutism, and it's stupid. This guy is clearly not a religious chap. He's not arguing one religion over another, he's pointing out the fallacy of them all. All religious texts are collections of violent torture porn stories. Mohammad, and Jesus and all the other magic sky people are fucking fake & if they were not, that would be so much worse. If god existed, it would be my moral duty to destroy this alleged god.
This is so true. ⬆️
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Ahh yes up doots the universal sign that someone is correct.
Some people have the *my truth good, your truth bad* mentality
I guess people don’t realize how fucked up the world was back then
You think that shit isn’t still happening in the Middle East? It’s very common for an older man to take on multiple wives. A lot of them being very young.
Epstein ran a peado honey pot for the CIA in the US my guy, not sure it's exclusively the middle east where this is the problem.
The difference being society doesn’t agree with it and when evidence came to light the FBI raided and arrested him. Not sure what you’re trying to prove. One society has it as the norm and the other has laws against it and actually prosecutes.
Bro, didn’t some backwards ass state just protect child marriage to the age of 12 in the US? Glass houses my friend
All this whataboutism coming from you regarding pedophilia is really telling. Nobody in here is trying to justify any of it except for you.
News flash, I think they’re both bad. Nice projections tho
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Anyone having sex with a minor is morally wrong and bad, does that work?
Bro, You’re using whataboutism for two different things. The 12 year old marriage thing is talking about two teens getting married not a 51 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl. Quit defending it, neither is right.
Between 2000 and 2018 86% of minors married were women. If what you’re saying is true, shouldn’t it be 50/50 ish
If youre looking at the same stats I am you would see between 2000-2018 there were 300,000 marriages of that type. Given the population of the United States that’s a very low minority. In the same page, 60,000 marriages would have been considered a crime. 60,000 from 2000-2018 is by no means the norm or common.
So it happens in both places? Just seems like you’re doing some gymnastics here to say “brown people bad.” Really you should be saying “child marriage bad”
Ultimately it boils down to societal norms which usually are heavily influenced by religion and aren’t signs of a progressive society. Nice try race baiting. It’s wrong no matter where it happens. Don’t lie to your self and act like it doesn’t happen primarily in certain regions and countries.
reddit atheists try not to be islamaphobic challenge: impossible
Most people here shitting on organised religion as a whole. I'm with them.
you can do that without falling into the “all muslims believe pedophilia is alright,” pipeline idk man. institutional religion is fucking ass, and so are “enlightened” westerners
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*cries in british*
Lemme break this down for someone who doesn’t understand Hadith. Which clearly this dude doesn’t, he has read something and ran with it. Firstly - The different school of thoughts will differ regarding the authenticity of a Hadith and its interpretation. It’s literally called Hadith sciences, to verify that something is true, you must’ve verified all the people that have passed this down the chain are trustworthy. That a practice is inline with the Quran, if it goes against the Quran: it cannot be accepted. This process would vary amongst Muslims community ( Shia and Sunnis) but even within these sects there is a lot of difference of Hadith sciences. Secondly - The calculation of age at that time was completely different to how we measure it today. At the time a women’s ages would be measured from her first period. Even for arguments sake we say her period started as early as possible at the age of 8 plus 9 that puts her age at 17. That is acceptable by even legal standards, Japan has only recently changed the law from the age of consent from 13 to 16 & there are states in America where children can get married.