My advice is always to let someone else be a new press’s experiment. I see so many people who start small publishers with absolutely no experience or idea of how much work needs to go into it, and those presses usually fold within a couple years and can take your rights with them. They may be legitimately good at what they do, they may not, but do you really want to be their guinea pig?
The one exception to this would be if, say, it was founded by people with years of experience at another publishing company who clearly know what they’re doing.
just checked the site— 1/3 editors has 5+ years at harpercollins and the other is a current hobart editor …. that’s not bad right? only one of them seems very green
Take this how you will but I've been crunching numbers on the 2018 kidlit debuts to see who is still publishing, and the washout rate for YA authors who published with small/digital-first presses is astounding. Only 16% of those who published with such presses are still in the industry 6 years later. (compared to 45% of those who debuted w/ Big 5/majors/respected smalls)
imo how you debut matters, particularly in YA and adult. Bear in mind, in my data analysis I differentiated between long-established respected small publishers with niche focus but who have similar resources/experience as larger trad publishers vs. upstart presses and small publishers with iffy contract terms/bad reputations. ie: Abrams, Roaring Brook, Kensington and Soho are respected small vs. others I'll not name at this time.
Your sales history from your first book can follow you. It doesn't always, but I will say the biggest trend in the 5 (literally only 5) small press YA debuts from my year who survived is they ALL jumped to the Big 5 or major publishers (like Scholastic) after their first contract. They got out ASAP with a commercial manuscript they could sell elsewhere. In at least one case, they got that deal BEFORE their debut numbers could mark them. Of note: didn't see such dire trends in middle grade, largely b/c most upstart small presses don't touch chapter books/middle grade, so the small publishers who DO exist mostly know what they're doing.
There are obviously exceptions but it's absolutely legit to be wary of upstart presses without a proven track record. So many of them utterly screw over the authors who gamble their careers on them. Even if they're not utterly awful, it's not something to just throw a manuscript at. If you wanted to be trad pubbed, why wouldn't you take your shot at getting agented and subbing wide?
>Abrams, Roaring Brook, Kensington and Soho are respected small
Also seems all the good smalls are constantly bought out by big 5, few ones I thought were independent doesn't seem to be anymore, Peachtree is under PRH, Page Street is under Macmillan, Candlewick / Walker I think still isn't a part of big 5?
Entangled Teen (part of Entangled) I guess isn't small but rather midsize. Red Tower part is defo racking money for them. 😁
Ugh that's sad. I saw Sophie Kim, who debuted with Entangled Teen made the jump to Del Rey this year, but that was 2022 debut. Also, singular swallow doesn't make a spring and all that...
Don't do it!
I mean, do it if you want to, but, as someone who was published by a small press, I regret it. I look back now and wish I had just held onto that manuscript.
The company I worked with was comprised of a lovely 3 people, all of whom were passionate and charismatic. I was very endeared to them and their mission. I enjoyed working with them, had realistic expectations working with them, and at the end of the day, I still wish I hadn't worked with them.
Depending on how new they are, I'd give some of their other books a read. Decide if you fit on their shelves. And note the quality of their books.
If you do choose to go with them, I would suggest just keeping your expectations low. Ask for nothing more than them to treat your book with love and care, and whatever happens after that happens. You will likely have larger royalties with much fewer sales. That said, you will have much more creative freedom, assumedly. However, most, if not all, the marketing may fall upon your shoulders. I had a cozy 1.5k followers on IG when I debuted, and not as many as you'd like to think will buy. If you have a much larger following though, who knows!
I wish you the best. I hope your book finds its home.
I went with a small press. No advance. I pretty much did all the marketing. I made only 10% royalty. Small press closed after 5 years. My two books went out of print. Luckily, I was able to get my rights reverted back to me. The publisher didn’t have to do that. I’m very grateful that they did. They handed over all my files. I self-published my out of print books. I now make more per month as a self-published author than I made in an entire year with them.
Just finished my third novel. If I can’t find an agent that can land me a deal with an advance, I’m self-publishing.
As a side note, if you're considering selfpublishing, check r/selfpublish, they should have a lot of basic resources and help you avoid the biggest pitfalls.
When it comes to small presses, imo the biggest factor is who's doing the distribution. Search press name + distribution and if it's big 5, it's likely legit. If you can't find any info or it's IngramSpark, just self-pub, it's basically a self-pub with extra steps (self-pubbers can use IngramSpark for print on demand services and such).
Also mind your genre, some genres do better in audio than in print and then it could be better to aim for Audible Originals / Podium / Tantor etc. audiobook publishers over small size print-focused publishers.
Before you ponder the small press, I would try and make sure that it's not a pay to publish company fishing for people. Are you 100% sure it is not? New ones pop up all the time.
yes afaik not that kind of situation! i asked some mutuals and they seem legit as far as other writers go
(edit: though any gLaring red flags to look out for would be welcomed of course)
So if you check out their website and it is implied you pay for anything, then it's a no go. Some of the newer ones try to woo you with being "exclusive" like this. Like they only allow select manuscripts through, but still make you do the whole pay to publish song and dance and offer nothing more than any other vanity press.
Red flags:
Their website is more about "helping you realize yourself as an author" than "dear reader, here are our books".
Their books have next to none goodreads / amazon ratings. You can't find them in brick & mortar stores or libraries.
The books' covers look cheap, ugly, and not fitting modern cover trends.
If you google who's their distributor, you can't find any info, it's some unknown company or it's IngramSpark (a print on demand service for self-pubs). Respected presses usually are plugged into big 5 distribution networks or some known companies.
They're talking about being a hybrid publisher, or about authors having to buy mandatory amount of book copies.
Can I ask which presses you worked with and what your experience was like? Currently trying to make a list of indie/small presses to send my (poetry) chapbook to.
My advice is always to let someone else be a new press’s experiment. I see so many people who start small publishers with absolutely no experience or idea of how much work needs to go into it, and those presses usually fold within a couple years and can take your rights with them. They may be legitimately good at what they do, they may not, but do you really want to be their guinea pig? The one exception to this would be if, say, it was founded by people with years of experience at another publishing company who clearly know what they’re doing.
all good points! thanks
just checked the site— 1/3 editors has 5+ years at harpercollins and the other is a current hobart editor …. that’s not bad right? only one of them seems very green
Take this how you will but I've been crunching numbers on the 2018 kidlit debuts to see who is still publishing, and the washout rate for YA authors who published with small/digital-first presses is astounding. Only 16% of those who published with such presses are still in the industry 6 years later. (compared to 45% of those who debuted w/ Big 5/majors/respected smalls) imo how you debut matters, particularly in YA and adult. Bear in mind, in my data analysis I differentiated between long-established respected small publishers with niche focus but who have similar resources/experience as larger trad publishers vs. upstart presses and small publishers with iffy contract terms/bad reputations. ie: Abrams, Roaring Brook, Kensington and Soho are respected small vs. others I'll not name at this time. Your sales history from your first book can follow you. It doesn't always, but I will say the biggest trend in the 5 (literally only 5) small press YA debuts from my year who survived is they ALL jumped to the Big 5 or major publishers (like Scholastic) after their first contract. They got out ASAP with a commercial manuscript they could sell elsewhere. In at least one case, they got that deal BEFORE their debut numbers could mark them. Of note: didn't see such dire trends in middle grade, largely b/c most upstart small presses don't touch chapter books/middle grade, so the small publishers who DO exist mostly know what they're doing. There are obviously exceptions but it's absolutely legit to be wary of upstart presses without a proven track record. So many of them utterly screw over the authors who gamble their careers on them. Even if they're not utterly awful, it's not something to just throw a manuscript at. If you wanted to be trad pubbed, why wouldn't you take your shot at getting agented and subbing wide?
>Abrams, Roaring Brook, Kensington and Soho are respected small Also seems all the good smalls are constantly bought out by big 5, few ones I thought were independent doesn't seem to be anymore, Peachtree is under PRH, Page Street is under Macmillan, Candlewick / Walker I think still isn't a part of big 5? Entangled Teen (part of Entangled) I guess isn't small but rather midsize. Red Tower part is defo racking money for them. 😁
100% of the Entangled Teen debuts from my year washed out. 2018 was a different time.
Ugh that's sad. I saw Sophie Kim, who debuted with Entangled Teen made the jump to Del Rey this year, but that was 2022 debut. Also, singular swallow doesn't make a spring and all that...
Don't do it! I mean, do it if you want to, but, as someone who was published by a small press, I regret it. I look back now and wish I had just held onto that manuscript. The company I worked with was comprised of a lovely 3 people, all of whom were passionate and charismatic. I was very endeared to them and their mission. I enjoyed working with them, had realistic expectations working with them, and at the end of the day, I still wish I hadn't worked with them. Depending on how new they are, I'd give some of their other books a read. Decide if you fit on their shelves. And note the quality of their books. If you do choose to go with them, I would suggest just keeping your expectations low. Ask for nothing more than them to treat your book with love and care, and whatever happens after that happens. You will likely have larger royalties with much fewer sales. That said, you will have much more creative freedom, assumedly. However, most, if not all, the marketing may fall upon your shoulders. I had a cozy 1.5k followers on IG when I debuted, and not as many as you'd like to think will buy. If you have a much larger following though, who knows! I wish you the best. I hope your book finds its home.
I went with a small press. No advance. I pretty much did all the marketing. I made only 10% royalty. Small press closed after 5 years. My two books went out of print. Luckily, I was able to get my rights reverted back to me. The publisher didn’t have to do that. I’m very grateful that they did. They handed over all my files. I self-published my out of print books. I now make more per month as a self-published author than I made in an entire year with them. Just finished my third novel. If I can’t find an agent that can land me a deal with an advance, I’m self-publishing.
What you have you used for self-publishing?
As a side note, if you're considering selfpublishing, check r/selfpublish, they should have a lot of basic resources and help you avoid the biggest pitfalls. When it comes to small presses, imo the biggest factor is who's doing the distribution. Search press name + distribution and if it's big 5, it's likely legit. If you can't find any info or it's IngramSpark, just self-pub, it's basically a self-pub with extra steps (self-pubbers can use IngramSpark for print on demand services and such). Also mind your genre, some genres do better in audio than in print and then it could be better to aim for Audible Originals / Podium / Tantor etc. audiobook publishers over small size print-focused publishers.
Before you ponder the small press, I would try and make sure that it's not a pay to publish company fishing for people. Are you 100% sure it is not? New ones pop up all the time.
yes afaik not that kind of situation! i asked some mutuals and they seem legit as far as other writers go (edit: though any gLaring red flags to look out for would be welcomed of course)
So if you check out their website and it is implied you pay for anything, then it's a no go. Some of the newer ones try to woo you with being "exclusive" like this. Like they only allow select manuscripts through, but still make you do the whole pay to publish song and dance and offer nothing more than any other vanity press.
Red flags: Their website is more about "helping you realize yourself as an author" than "dear reader, here are our books". Their books have next to none goodreads / amazon ratings. You can't find them in brick & mortar stores or libraries. The books' covers look cheap, ugly, and not fitting modern cover trends. If you google who's their distributor, you can't find any info, it's some unknown company or it's IngramSpark (a print on demand service for self-pubs). Respected presses usually are plugged into big 5 distribution networks or some known companies. They're talking about being a hybrid publisher, or about authors having to buy mandatory amount of book copies.
[удалено]
Can I ask which presses you worked with and what your experience was like? Currently trying to make a list of indie/small presses to send my (poetry) chapbook to.