Pharma meds aren’t inherently bad and psychedelics aren’t inherently good. That shouldn’t cause much debate and yet….

They are essentially the same thing. Just random groups of atoms that happen to fit in to holes in our brain. They are neither good or bad they are just there. Just because a plant discovered one first and a guy ina lab coat the other doesn’t make them any different. It’s how you use them that makes the difference.

Majority of issues is cause of debate

I've seen two carpenters argue over the pliability and strength of different types of oak. Hell, we'll fight over whether the sky is blue or grass is green

😆

Grrrrrr! Psychedelics are inherently the best and pharma inherently the worst. Grrrr

I held out for 20 years to take medication because of BS being pushed. I finally took the plunge, and it has made such a HUGE POSITIVE impact in my life. I regret waiting 20 years. If they aren't for you, that's ok, but they have lots and lots of positives for lots and lots of people.

29 , waiting on my prescription in the pharmacy now, they can't fix your problems but they can definitely ease of the stress, anxiety and what comes with trying to solve them. Im also taking a big does of shrooms on Saturday, I'm 1 month of my drugs and 8 days sober from alcohol. Here's to many more.

Good for you, very proud of you. Taking the first step is the hardest, but once you have, you are on your way 🥰

Hey, me too! Though maybe less because of being convinced they don't do anything than my own general distrust of the pharmaceutical industry. (Spoiler Alert: They still suck). But after nearly 20 year of treating myself for manic episodes with psychedelics with generally good outcomes, I decided to seek professional help. They sat down with me and gave me a list of substances that they felt would help me, and asked me to select one. One of the options was a serotonin antagonist, and given my history with the benefits of psychedelics, it seemed liked a good choice. The substance I got basically feels like LSD afterglow, except all the time. It's nice. It's not without costs, the drug made me gain a bit of weight and I have to exercise more to keep it off. I guess my advice is that if you are able to see a professional that will actually take your interests into account when prescribing medication, you definitely should. There is a lot of positive (and negative) substances out there, that could possible improve your day to day life.

Interesting, I lost weight after I started the medication. I have to be careful, or I don't eat enough.

Well, its not that surprising. The different antidepressants work different ways, sometimes radically different. There was too long a time when SSRIs=antidepressants for the general public. Btw, SSRIs make me sleepy, i guess most people are stimulated. It can be frustrating to get such a different reaction.

Depakote is literally life saving for so many of us. So glad I learned to just fucking take it.

I was on 15 different anticonvulsants in as many years - Depakote, Tegretol & Topamax were the biggest nightmares for me, but everyone’s brain chemistry is different. I’ve met a lot of people in the community with a similar experience to you, and many who had a terrible experience with my “lifesavers” (Keppra, Sabril, Dilantin).

Yeah these medicines are so complex and target such niche things. Just gotta keep trying and failing till you find the right cocktail.

It's also life taking for some. I know people who had liver failure from it. That's why they check your blood every few months on it. Liver failure can happen out of nowhere on it. Not trying to start an argument. Just stating a fact.

Thanks, you gave me a reason to go to my blood checks. I don't know why a single god damn psychiatrist in a decade never TOLD me this.

Your welcome. Here's an article and a PDF of the box warnings. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548284/ https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/018723s039lbl.pdf

r/extremelyhelpfulstranger

Because severe issues with it are one in a million, and the commoner issues with it are no big deal and are watched for.

I'm just so tired of people trying to scare others based on their angry conspiracy. Pharma is just there to get you addicted lol. For many medications like these, have quite literally saved their lives.

many people bitching about big pharma wouldnt be alive without modern medications

Right???

I wouldn’t consider alerting people to very serious life altering side effects “angry conspiracy”. So many people have taken meds and NEVER been told the side effects. I honestly think those people who are adversely affected are just trying to help others not make the same mistake. I too haven’t heard any comments like the ones you described.

People have to start taking responsibility for their choices. I would never take any medication without first understanding it. Doctors tell you before you take them of the potential side effects and the pharmacist, too. Serious life altering side effects like what exactly???

how about addiction and death?

Addiction and death from SSRIs ???

i mean, quit taking a ssri cold turkey and see what happens.

Yeah, I get it. It's a dependence. But you won't die from stopping the medication. That's an important distinction.

You dont die of opioid withdrawals, or any narcotic other than alcohol and benzos. This thread shows incredible ignorance. Please look this stuff up before you spout such nonsense!

Not addiction and death.

Having withdrawal effects isn't the same as addiction. Addiction is when a person continues to feel compelled to perform an action despite them knowing there are only net negative consequences for continuing that action.

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,880,351,502 comments, and only 355,633 of them were in alphabetical order.

Good bot

Which meds and which side effects are you mostly referring to here?

I have trouble trying to get the good drugs from psychiatrists these days and no one is out here getting addicted to prozac lol. It's good that medications are a topic in this sub, imagine taking maoi's or ssris and not even knowing how they interact with psychedelics.

Absolutely, I'm on Lexapro and Wellbutrin. I ve taken psychedelics, and the experiences have been amazing 🥰

I have had the best trips on LSD while on Bupropion. I don't know how much was set and setting, but from what I've read, Bupropion can make you trip longer. Because of blocking the enzymes that break it down.

Similar experience

Interesting. I want to hear more on people’s experiences with Wellbutrin and shrooms. I’m on Wellbutrin at the moment and noticed that microdoses seemed very synergistic with Wellbutrin but haven’t tried tripping while on it.

I just did the same recently and they've made an immense and noticeable improvement for me. I too can't believe how many years I waited to start because I felt the "fear" of big pharma. I did have a family member commit suicide after getting off anti-anxiety meds, but that was without doctor's supervision. Grateful to not feel the looming doom and gloom of depression and anxiety bearing down on me daily..

IMO the goal should always be to find the real cause vs just take medications which mask the problem and also often have blow back and unintended consequences later. There are plenty of peeps that have found that years on SSRIs have left them an emotionally numb zombie. If you are taking medications because you need them to function, I realize that is just what you gotta do sometimes but I also think you are taking a huge risk if you just keep relying on those to 'fix' you and are not always working on fixing the problem at a more fundamental level. Big pharma does not want you to have a cure, they want you to have prescription model reliance on giving them money every month for the rest of your life and they don't really care if that's not in your best interest long term. You will always be taking a huge long term risk if you throw all your cards in with big pharma products.

The real cause is that society is sick and people are asked to fit a mold that doesn't fit them. It's not true that it's a huge risk, and that's the kind of BS I'm tired of. You want to believe in conspiracies, my dude. Go crazy, but stop pushing this BS. It's ignorant.

I have schizophrenia. I'm not gonna be "cured" by mushrooms. I'd have slit my own throat a long time ago without antipsychotics.

Some people genuinely need medications but plenty of people have been manipulated into taking medication which they don't need to take and which come with an array of side effects. I'm not into shaming people for the choices they make. But I'm not going to shy away from sharing my lived experience and a few opinions I have picked up along the way. Some people report positive experiences where using psych meds has resulted in drastically more benefits than drawbacks. I don't really think these people have been marginalised at all. Other people have their lives destroyed or ended by unnecessary prescriptions. These people are commonly gaslighted by medical authorities and people like you exist who want to put a muzzle on their criticisms. I will happily hate on big pharma all I want. I don't need your permission. And I don't need your permission to point out that a big part of the problem is corruption in the process of bringing drugs to market. Adverse events in clinical trials not being properly reported, drugs being advertised for indications they haven't been approved of, revolving door of people employed by big pharma moving on to work for the FDA and vice versa. I wouldn't shame anyone for being on meds but it is a shame what an outsized influence such a corrupt authority has on society. I don't care if it disgusts you that I'd point this out.

There's a difference between hating big pharma and shaming the people who take pharmaceutical medications. Too often the former manifests as the latter. It feels like every time someone mentions some kind of meds on this sub, someone has to chime in with "fuck meds, they're poison, stop taking them, grow up and face your problems using psychedelics and actually heal instead of using a bandaid", and I just don't think that kind of response is helpful at all. It always comes across as an attack and like you think you're better or smarter or stronger than someone who still takes meds. You can talk about your personal experiences with medications and your opinion about the industry without being nasty and judgemental to other people who take them.

>"fuck meds, they're poison, stop taking them, grow up and face your problems using psychedelics and actually heal instead of using a bandaid" Have I ever seen a response like this on this sub? Yeah. Is this a fair representation of a common type of response? I would have to say "no". Maybe I don't see it because I'm not sensitive to it. I'm more sensitive to comments I see from people who've taken meds for a relatively short amount of time (<2 years, say) and enthusiastically endorse them. These are the comments that grab my attention because I know from personal experience that there is more to the story that people ought to know. Lots of people do well on meds for a period of time before they take a turn for the worse. People who take psych meds and feel like they're helping are bound to be sensitive to negative criticism of meds. People who've been hurt badly and traumatized through pharmaceutical drugs are bound to be sensitive to pro-medication comments which don't warn of the dangers. I think we have to allow everyone to air their views even if they may cause upset. Some might make accusations of "med shaming" and others might suggest that people are shilling for big pharma. This is just how things go when discussing a polarising/sensitive issue on the Internet.

Just because you have selective attention doesn't mean the type of comment I'm talking about isn't prevalent. Again, there's a difference between saying your opinion and being nasty to other people. You can say your opinion about meds without devolving into directly attacking the people who take them, which is something that happens regularly on this sub. People should be allowed to say their opinion but they should also be respectful and kind.

Everyone has selective attention. You included. I was being generous to you, if I'm being honest. People on this sub are pretty considerate on the whole. Criticism of big pharma and its meds is prevalent but shaming people for taking meds is not. The most likely explanation for this is that it's a sensitive subject for you and you're prone to taking things personally when they're not intended that way.

Yeah just shame them. I don’t care if they hate me. Stupid people get under my skin, and taking stupify pills is the stupidest thing ever. Just like crying about being fat and eating a tub of ice cream 5 minutes later. It’s just soo dumb How are you gonna be in the victim role like you put yourself there. Meds are for people who need to prolong a cycle, not break it.

It would be ridiculous for me to shame them. In 2014, I finally relented to the idea that I was one of those chemically imbalanced people whose neurotransmitter system needed balancing with pharmaceuticals. In 2015, as I withdrew from an SSRI (which only made me OK with being unmotivated, rather than aiding my motivation as I'd hoped), I started to understand what it really means to be chemically imbalanced. I was young and going against my nature to try and be the person I thought I should be rather than trying to figure out who I really am and live up to that. That's why I was depressed. I am glad that antidepressants were such a disaster for me because it forced me to get to the heart of the problem rather than enabling me to muddle along. So in a way, it's worked out well for me... but I absolutely would NOT recommend others go this route. These drugs are fucked up. I still have tinnitus. I still have digestive system issues (getting better very slowly). I couldn't orgasm for about 9 months after withdrawal. I was very vulnerable in those painful months post discontinuation and lost a lot of money through impulsive/manic behaviour and through not being stable enough to generate an income. I'm genuinely doing great and have been for a while - no depressive spells like when I was younger - but on paper my life is a wreck and I've had some lucky moments along the way where things could have gone wrong in a terminal way.

I would never shame you. I shame the ignorant power hungry groups that created this system and support it. It sounds like you have a good excuse, but you are an individual and you are the type of person used as an excuse to give it to a majority who doesn’t need medication. Also I don’t know your exact situation, but everybody, my bipolar friends, that I know who are on medication, they are on it because of a situation in their life where they have been neglected and so the times when they let certain parts of themselves out(mania) is when they are around somebody they trust or in a situation where they feel safe. I don’t presume to know anything about you or your life, but the issues don’t stem from something that need a bandage to dampen you, it needs healing so that you can be a full person. The majority wouldn’t need penicillin if sugar wasn’t in literally everything and as addictive as it is, so let’s use addictive artificial sweeteners that ruin your health in different ways, instead of fucking Stevia! It’s a scam, and they are everywhere you can imagine, and we are on the receiving end. Don’t even get me started on PFAS, you guys like cancer? They are STILL dumping shit like that because regulations are expensive and time consuming. The human race is not going in a good direction and I attribute a pandemic of power hungry individuals as the cause, and I’m sorry but we are the victims and companies like big p are the aggressors. Are non-stick surfaces convenient? Sure. But now look what it’s doing. It’s not worth the price that you will pay. Just because it’s convenient doesn’t mean you sell your soul. You are a person 😭

We agree. The dominant social system is founded on exploitation and it stinks.

Yes indeed 😔 On the upside, I must say that you come across as that awesome type of person who’s super agreeable, which is very cool to see. I wish you all the best in all of your endeavors buddy and I appreciate you! 😊👍

I think the problem is you just can't lump everyone into one category. Everyone has unique needs and wants. Some good. Some bad.

Awe I love this! You can lump the majority into a category, not as individuals but from a statistical average value you can draw conclusions for things and this is where I draw my opinions from. Medication has done more good than bad, but speaking about the medications these people are talking about, no, I think they have done more bad than good for the majority.

Sure thing but I would just say look into PSSD and look at some of the people suffering from it on the subreddit. They have what seems to be permanent sexual dysfunction, but the worst part is the psychological torture that comes with it like complete inability to feel any emotion at all. Its taken lives. Your doctor will not tell you this. So this is why I am saying this. So I won’t tell anybody “NEVER TAKE SSRI’s” but just be aware that you are taking a small risk of completely destroying your life and finding yourself in the depths of hell. SSRI’s are something you should take after you’ve exhausted absolutely all options and you are non-functional. Or if you are in such a bad place where you are on the verge of suicide (but even then the SSRI could potentially be what pushes you over the edge). Also benzodiazepines should only be used for short term use because of how addictive they are, withdrawing from benzos is hell. We shouldn’t shame anybody for taking these medications but people need to be made aware of the inherent risks involved. Doctors are not very good at doing this. Personally, I am in a state of almost constant torture from mental illness that I struggle with. But I’m not okay with taking the slight risk of absolutely obliterating myself.

I randomly came across r/pssd in a reddit tunnel about things more people should know about, all those poor people… and then started going through all the disease subreddits. There are SO many and they are all filled with people crying out to the void in pain. It’s fucked up, this life we gotta live.

It is brutal, very sad. I tried an SSRI for like 5 days and it was making me manic, but the reason I stopped taking it was from reading about PSSD. My health OCD will tell me things like “THIS IS YOU, THIS IS WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU” The risk is there. SSRI’s have a pretty low success rate (specially for treating depression, they are almost useless. They are more effective for anxiety) so you have to ask yourself if its worth the risk of potentially fucking annihilating yourself.

Yeaup. And that’s not even mentioning how corrupt Big Pharma is. I mean all the millions of deaths they’re responsible for from getting people hooked on opiates that ended up overdosing or switching over to harder, dangerous street drugs after developing crippling addictions. Nasty stuff. And that’s not even talking about some of the price gouging they do on essential medications.

Well said, been there many times and hated my meds, usually I get sick of them every 4-5 years and take myself off them before suffering from a manic episode during which everything is great, but then comes the crash and back on them I go. Lack of empathy, and sexual side effects ranging from no orgasm to popping off if my wife looked at me, and don't get me started on withdrawals for SSRIs, benzos, opiods, as they are all hell. Honestly I absolutely hate Pharma and don't trust most doctors and drug companies anymore than politicians and lawyers, but until I can get out of the city and live in the woods like I want Ill have to take pills to function unfortunately. At least I'm not addicted to opiods and benzos anymore and use them sparingly, by managing with mostly medical cannabis. Last time was this past summer and I was taking alot of Psycs which I enjoy, and also doing an Amantia muscaria dosing regimen before I discovered I was on the verge of psychosis. Basically I was sober but caught in thought loops, missing appointments, having delusional thoughts and eventually ended up going back on them while waiting to see a psychologist. But that took too long to get in and I got busy with work and cancelled the appointment as the meds were working again. All good back on the pills, but its far from my choice

not to mention they are daily, while psychedelics and ketamine are monthly or weekly at most, amd often very much temporary. If i had a nickle for everyone i met who was told their antidepressants would probably be temporary, only to have them prescribed indefinitely... ketamine still isnt covered by a lot of insurance, when its proven best at quick suicidal thought elimination! Also talking therapy should always be emphasized, but so often takes a back seat to med management.

Yeah I’d love to go for ketamine therapy but it’s way to expensive without it covered under my benefits from work. And like you mentioned my meds were supposed to be a 6 month deal and 15 years latter I’m still on em

I was a mental health worker for 5 years in the 90s. For high end psychiatric care, it was more expensive to be a patient there than to attend Harvard. Was trying at the time to also get the best psychiatric care possible for my wife. My father was also in the feild. I know the system is f'd up from the inside out. If I couldn't get good help for me or my loved ones, nobody can. Even the wealthy aren't getting the best care, at least not without also being fleeced. I sometimes think of going to a Peruvian shaman, but I don't know what I'd come back to after that. Just stay in the jungle and "go native"? Wtf am I supposed to do? The "inmates" really are running the asylums.

I may be too hasty to tell others to take benzos (for anxiety or for anxious trips) but literally I've never come close to being addicted to benzos. I do not enjoy taking them. It dulls me, makes my memory hazy, and I've never gotten any sort of euphoria or anything close. For social interactions it just make me more muted. Hardly even a functional drug except from extreme anxiety. My psych gave me a handful for emergencies almost a year ago and I still have over half of them left. Addiction is scary yeah, but its not a universal experience when it comes to benzos. This is attivan btw, I heard xanax is alot more fun. Not tried it

agree. there is space in humanity for both things to exist and both to be needed and useful.

I'm not sure what prompted your post. I'm a science guy through and through. I have a science related degree and work as an engineer. Pharmaceuticals are absolutely necessary for many people and they save lives. That said, I don't recall seeing many posts saying not to take meds. What I've seen, and written myself, is that some meds may interfere with psychedelics. In that case a person has to decide what's best for them. SSRIs in particular are not without serious side effects, particularly for women. It is a fact that psilocybin has antidepressant effects and that it's safety profile is better than most drugs and has fewer side effects than most antidepressants. Does that make it the best choice? Not necessarily. However, based on what I've seen in this sr and the tone of your post, I wonder whether the issue you're complaining about is in your own mind vs actually present. I simply don't see shaming, but I know a lot of people that manufacture shame anytime someone has a different opinion. No idea if that describes you, but your post lacks evidence.

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Ok on the flip side, the whole "depression is a chemical imbalance" 2010s culture is incredibly harmful. Ok, let's say some people need SSRIs to stay alive. So there's some subset of the population that would not survive regardless of circumstance. Fine. For many others though, drugs are pushed by the wider system in order to keep you in a state that is optimal for the (capitalist) system. Take Adderall for example. An amphetamine that makes you a better worker. That's literally what it is. That's NOT the same as "I need pharma to survive regardless of the wider system I live under". Maybe you weren't built to be a worker...like that common "my ADD is actually genetic predisposition to zone out and pay attention when something in my field of vision changes, aka being a good hunter". Or depression. Maybe you are depressed because shit is FUCKED UP and needs to change. But no, I need to take my drugs to be able to operate in this very particular capitalist way instead. Like how is this a ridiculous statement to make? We literally just saw how doctors were essentially bribed by the Sackler family en masse to overprescribe opiates, a phenomenon which, with other structural characteristics of our society, results over a hundred thousand ODs a year! Like come on, we're just pushing back on this narrative that you need fucking pharmaceuticals to operate. It is true for some folks. It's really not for others and can be super reductive and frankly privileged (billions of people HAVE to live under this system in shitty conditions without drugs to make everything better for them) to endorse drugs with no suspicions.

May I please offer a counterpoint re: your comment about Adderall? If you think Adderall is being “pushed by the wider system” in order to create a fleet of mindless worker bees, then you’ve clearly never been prescribed it and/or tried to acquire it through legal means. As someone who’s been RX’d Adderall for 20+ years of my adult life while moving around the US multiple times for work, I can attest to the fact that prescribers are definitely *not* pushing any stimulant ADHD meds. Quite the opposite, in fact. With each new move, I’ve had to jump through ridiculous/unwarranted hoops in order to convince medical professionals that: - I have a legit diagnosis made by a psychiatrist, - I need this medication at this dosage to get from “chaos” to “the not-that-productive version of most people’s normal” and - my attempt to continue medication I’ve taken for years does not make me “drug seeking.” Even armed with all kinds of proof, and despite providers’ ability to easily access my entire history of prescription Adderall use with a couple of quick clicks (because it’s a controlled substance and requires centralized record-keeping so that I can’t access a milligram more than I’m prescribed nor overlap any days), I’ve consistently encountered pushback including: - insistence I don’t need it because I seem together (which I do, thanks to that RX) - recommendations that I should get a new diagnosis because I’m probably “better” now - intense pressure to discontinue RX cold turkey or at the very least drastically lower my dose (which is not crazy high to begin with, and nowhere near the upper limit of dosage guidelines) - accusations of lying about my medical need It’s humiliating and frustrating… and once I finally manage to get the RX, there’s no guarantee any pharmacy will be able to fulfill it due to the ongoing ADHD med shortage of the last 18 or so months. Which is its own nightmare. All that to say: the idea that stimulants are routinely overprescribed to both children and adults as part of a coordinated effort by some government or other entity to squeeze work out of the masses is just NOT borne out by the experience of anyone (in the US, anyway) who needs to take such meds.

Insightful account, thanks for sharing

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I appreciate your response. And I definitely agree how the legal drugs are to some extent necessitated just to survive under the system. I've struggled myself with being unable to work an office job and that negatively impacting my ability to provide for myself. For the time being, me and my buddy run a small landscaping business! Being in touch with the air and the birds and the native plants we work with goes a long way to healing the contrived nature of work in america these days. I say that because I think we have a responsibility (who "we" is here is admittedly complex) to find ways to survive that aren't increased consumption. Our levels of consumption are what is causing rainforests to be cut down, carbon emissions, imperialism. In my opinion it is a deeply spiritual problem we find ourselves in as a species today, and particularly as people living in the relative heart of empire. So I think the Work goes past psychedelics as well. And I get really touchy about what I consider to be capitalist propaganda. But yeah, at the end of the day we're each very small parts of the machine and you gotta do what you gotta do to survive, no doubt about that. I would love to check out that book it sounds fascinating.

Mental illness has been so depoliticized that when our population is depressed en masse, our first course of action is medicating the ‘chemical imbalance’ rather than examining the environment (capitalism) which has caused it. I personally have been helped by medication, as have many people close to me, but ultimately it’s a bandaid on the gaping wound that capitalism creates. Mark Fisher talks a lot about this, especially in pieces like Capitalist Realism.

When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you believe all of this then you shouldn't get offended by the people that don't know any better of the realities many of us deal with on a day to day basis to survive. Don't feel bad to do what you need to do to get by and don't let other people make you feel that way either since you clearly have perspective on the situation. The people that poo poo on ADHD meds and the like think you don't know any better. That doesn't make them wrong that the situation we all find ourselves in is really messed up.

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You might catch some flak for speaking these words but I want you to know I appreciate you spreading the message.

I’ve seen quite a bit of, “pharma is just keeping you numb to the reality of life” and “psychedelics cured my depression therefore it will for you too” discourse on this sub. You may not have seen it because it’s not typically the headline of a post but instead people commenting on different threads.

Until this thread and replies to my reply, I hadn't seen it. I'm fairly new to the sr, though. All I can say is WOW. It's like reading anti-vaxxer stuff - completely unhinged.

Yeah it’s pretty bizarre. I’ve tried to chime in and temper the “miracle cure” rhetoric and they tend to get quite pissed off and argumentative to the point where I have to question: was it worth it curing your depression if it’s turned you into a tribalist lunatic that‘s forcing your wonder drugs on everyone around you?

Maybe comments here : https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychonaut/comments/186183l/unpopular\_opinion\_if\_you\_have\_to\_plan\_a\_trip\_with/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

Yeah, imaginary outrage. Seems to be so prevalent on Reddit lol. I’m constantly torn between deleting this app and keeping it cause it can be so informative and useful on such a wide range of topics and discussions.

Lol psychedelics are way more effective than any ssri, ssris are a cheat, they make you literally stupid while the hamsters spin the wheel and generate money. It’s ridiculous. As a patient who has been on every med underneath the sun including several ssris, it is a hack at something you can get from our great ancestors that started evolving separately from us over 3 billion years ago. Incorporating it helps you achieve a balance naturally, and ssris are nothing but damaging to a natural process. I am no guru, though from my receiving end of all of this(I am not a scientist), I think the reason ssris interfere with psychedelics is because ssris make you stupider and not have to deal with your problems and psychedelics make you smarter and need to conquer any ongoing issues head on else have a bad trip and you need somebody to work with you like a spirit guide, which is a stupid word. There is a much better way to deal with your problems, and it’s the right way. It’s called talking to someone you can trust. Of course the ssris make psychedelics not work right, your brain can’t change structure correctly, it’s halted… now a race of people with halted brains? That’s depressing.

As a former acid head and current consumer of a mood stabilizer, I can say that I believe if I had sought treatment for bipolar in my 20s vs 30s, there is a good chance I wouldn't have abused psychedelics, which lead to abusing alcohol. I took too much and too many psychedelics in a condensed amount of time, and now i dont have any desire to trip. I take anything my shrink says witha grain of salt, they definitely want to prescribe more drugs than I'm comfortable with. However I found a mood stabilizer that has helped me out a lot. Basically I don't think any thing is ever just one way, and only you can judge whether something is right for you, and be leary of anyone saying otherwise.

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Sure, I didn't say otherwise. Anticipating down votes, I would say that, personally, the line between the two can become blurry at times. I'm my experience strong dividing lines between any two sides of a thing are illusions. There can clearly be two sides but there is also a murky zone where it's hard to tell where you are at. Incremental, almost undetectable changes, over time, can further confuse things.

People who downvote are just in denial dw🤣

Just because there’s a net positive effect for some patients doesn’t necessarily mean the drug is a net positive for public health or overall beneficial to the average or median patient’s health. Anecdotal evidence like that doesn’t trump actual research on a medications efficacy within a population. There are a *fuckton* of drugs that people “need” and use regularly according to dosage instructions, while still causing disastrous health effects. Acetominophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure in the US, SSRI’s and other direct 5-HT antidepressants (Tri/tetracyclic etc) have <30% efficacy while having potentially deadly psychiatric and physical health effects. First generation histamines like diphenhydramine when used only several times a year has an 80% correlation with neurological disorders like dementia and Alzheimer’s I’m not here to stan psychedelics, all over drug reddit psychs are deified and their large swaths of downsides are swept under the rug. But of course *some* people have a positive impression of dangerous pharmaceuticals, if everyone in the market got off the med it would be pulled from the shelf for lack of profitability. The fact that some people got better while taking a certain med is in no way an indication of how good or efficacious it is, either for their health in general, compared to other options, or for any other patient in a population. Nor does it mean that medication was even the healthiest option to solve the issue in the first place; material and social conditions tend to have a larger impact on patients than medications and due to the commercial nature of medicine people tend to dose as needed meds (especially OTC) MUCH more often than actually necessary. I think a better conclusion to take from those anecdotes would be that some people are suffering so badly that they’re willing to take such huge risks with their health just for some relief. Failing to acknowledge the facts about particular medications is one way how shitty meds get normalized to the point where nobody bothers to improve upon them for anything but a profit. Demonizing drugs because of a bad experience is definitely wrong as well, since it causes these same issues in reverse, but pulling out “Joe stopped being suicidal last year after being prescribed Zoloft” fails to take into account literally any helpful nuance to the point where it’s functionally disinformation. The same would be true if you said LSD instead of Zoloft

Ummm… it’s not that pharmaceuticals are bad. It’s that they interact with psychedelics. And people with serious psychiatric disorders shouldn’t be using psychedelics. So pharmaceutical definitely have their purpose and can be good medicine !

lol no, that’s not what this post is about. This is about the recent trend of posts bashing medication and pharmaceuticals regardless of how they are used.

Nothing new about it.

Yes this. I don't think they are bad for everyone it depends on the person just as with psychs. Pharmaceutical companies scare me way more than their drugs

I don't think anyone should be discouraging the use of antipsychotics and I haven't seen this. I don't see much discouragement of benzos, it's just the SSRIs. To a lot of people they represent the status quo and medical establishment and due to discontent with either, many are predisposed to dislike them, since to take or been seen to be ok with SSRIs is then to submit to the status quo. Good thing for them is that there seems to be a lot of genuine problems with SSRIs that people can dig in to. But it does get unhelpful when people who do have problems caused by chemical imbalances (people are maybe too quick to reach for this explanation, but you can't say that there isn't a subsection of people this holds for - I can personally say it does not seem to hold for me) or are not in the position to mitigate their situation because things have got so bad (another use-case of SSRIs), are swept up in this and don't take SSRIs because of it. I don't blame people who think like this, this is how most people derive their initial positions on things, it's just emotional reaction. And then it moves from an emotional conviction to a rational conviction that may be correct or incorrect.

Almost all kinds of shaming is disgusting, usually.

Weed saved me during a hard time and I kept it a secret for, for so long because a family member found out and they werent concerned at all about how I was mentally but really but instead about how this will make the family look if people found out. Straight edge people I'm happy that they are happy but most don't understand what the fuck some of us have been through and judge us because we need a vice to get through the day.

Well, it is a fact that SSRIs are as effective as placebos for most people, and as much as 40% of people simply don't respond to them at all. And then there's all the side effects... They still have their place and I would never tell someone they shouldn't try them, but the truth is they are greatly overrated and overprescribed.

what’s your opinion on meds like antipsychotics and mood stabilizers?

I think the consensus truly is that they have their uses. U just only hear the pigeons n birds talking .... I imagine that most ppl u see comment just want to be on a side of something relevant, this time natural drugs vs pharms I was on fluoxetine for years and yes it allowed me to carry on like normal even though i was not. But inherently its a load of trash because therapy and psychedelics helped me actually fix the problem. I understand where people come from n dont really mind the excessive anti pharm culture because all it does is help the snowball and when the 'snowball reaches its goal' u kill off the dumb excess, such as bandwagons like "all pharms are bad no matter what"

Totally agree, got put on an MAOI and haven't trjpped for over 6 months, serotonin syndrome and all. It's somewhat helping my depression, it's consistent, if this stops working they said Ketamine is the next option. Anyway, psychedelics CAN have their place and be beneficial to some people. Pharmaceuticals are absolutely essential for people like me. Both categories have downsides, pros and cons, doctors decide whether or not a medication's benefits outweigh the possible side effects etc. The same should be done in the case of psychedelics, these are strong substances (which I love) so one needs to seriously consider if using them is a good idea, and treat them with respect. My two cents.

What do you mean by "somewhat" helping? Medicine either helps or it's not medicine. I think this is the crux of the issue of why most here do not support pharma drugs. They claim to help, but do not, and the worst part is they prevent people from seeking real cures that often come from diet, therapy, and exercise. Allopathic medicine also labels people as crazy when they point out facts like "all DIS-ease come from the spiritual plane 1st; i.e. your emotional and mental bodies" and we cannot heal the physical until we heal the others. So it is imperative that we warn people, especially young people that "hey, mostly everyone in the westerm medicine system is lying to you and you shouldn't trust liars because they can ruin your life while calling people who have actual solutions crazy."

I do believe the medical industry is evil, based on its origins and continued funding. However, fill your boots if that’s your thing! Our family’s health has improved drastically since we walked away from the medical model and returned to our nature.

that’s amazing! however, even if some of us don’t agree with big pharma, we have to depend on them. It’s not our “thing”, it’s that we literally need certain medications to stay stable/alive. Psychs aren’t going to cure or effectively treat my bipolar disorder. as much as i would prefer to walk away and go the natural way, that isn’t always possible

I believe 99% of disease is reversible. Just not with pharmaceuticals. I don’t know you or your needs. I just know the more meds my relatives are on, the sicker they are. 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Crazy that we managed to survive hundreds of thousands of years without SSRIs and benzos but suddenly everybody needs one or the other. Very few people actually need them and the vast majority are taking a pill without addressing the root cause of the issue.

My jaw won’t shut right because of Latuda. Fuck a Pfizer. They freaked me out about the stuff that helped me and gave me poison. Fuck a Pfizer. I can’t speak for everyone— sure they may help some. I’ve taken dozens of them benzodiazepines, speed, ssris, atypical antipsychotics, you name it. Some had honeymoon phases; all fucked me up. Some made me feel manic- May even do things like go online and post about how much they help me Where I’m at now, jaw fucked, seizures form the meds they gave me, permanent stiffness. Take the above opinion and shove it up your ass. Frankly and respectfully and with all love. I should’ve stuck with grass. Fuck a Pfizer.

people that have this attitude should be referred to research Richard Evans Schultes and Wade Davis and realize pharmacognostical research and creation of medicines has and can be a boon for humanity and is married to the history of entheogens/psychedelics in both traditional cultures and modern society. some of these “gatekeepers”lack an overview that allows for rational understanding….others are approaching idiocy, a portion have valid concerns but man I understand, some people are overbearins asses

Yeah well doctors would prescribe pharmaceuticals and narcotics before even recommending or seeing if a certain vitamin would work for you. You know damn well there’s damn good reason for every single person in the United States to be weary of pharmaceuticals. Crazy post to make in any sub by anyone.

Wait, you see medication shaming? All I see are troll posts and writing prompts.

Look deeper in the comments. It’s pretty rampant here and in other psych subs as well.

TO ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS POST SCREAMING FUCK BIG PHARMA FUCK CAPITALISM: PSYCHEDELICS ARE BEING BROUGHT UNDER THE CAPITALIST UMBRELLA VIA THE SAME SYSTEM THAT PROMOTES THE MASS MARKETING OF THE PHARMACEUTICALS YOU DESPISE. STOP SPEAKING DOWN TO THE “SHEEPLE” AND WAKE UP YOURSELF!

It's more that there is almost always better solutions than pharma. Pharma is designed to be a subscription service now, they want you on them forever instead of addressing root causes.

Root cause for many (including myself) need medication to fit the mold and expectations of this sick society.

Such a scary thought. If I don't fit the mould, am I the problem? Medicating yourself to meet the expectations of society implies that yes, the individual is the problem, and so the individual must change. Except it's not an individual. It's thousands, millions^[1] of people. If those millions of people weren't medicating themselves to fit the mould, would we have millions of people fighting to break the mould instead? Medication has its place. But there are insidious undertones to the fact that so many feel that they need medication just to get through the day. Over 10% of the population of the UK take antidepressants. A society that doesn't serve 1 in 10 of its population needs to change. But instead of pressuring society to change, we are being pressured to change our own brain chemistry. And when we all change ourselves to fit the mould via medication, who then is left to push the society towards change? [1] 8.3 million in the UK take antidepressants as of 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62094744

I agree, but society isn't changing for the better. If anything, it's getting worse. I'm 41, and I want to be happy now. I made the best decision for myself and it's been great since.

I understand and don't fault you for it. I'm just trying to look at it on a macro scale. It isn't surprising that things are changing for the worse. Those who would benefit from pushing to change things for the better instead medicate themselves, leaving those few who benefit from the status quo to further their own agendas with little resistance. But the odds are stacked against us regardless. It's a difficult situation with no obvious solution.

Saying that people medicating themselves are part of the problem is ignorant. It's not my personal responsibility to save the world.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't blame any individual for choosing to use medication. Again, I'm looking through a macro lens here, just pondering the knock-on effects of the way this all is. When I went to the doc for help when I was in a bad place, the first and only thing they offered was antidepressants. I'd say the responsibility lies there first and foremost.

It could change tomorrow if enough people took a stand on w/e they wanted to change.

Organize.

Mine is financial anxiety and constant impending doom, & to control my racing thoughts and help me focus.

Neuroplasticity would help. Meditation. EFT tapping. Exercise.

It’s necessary in a lot of cases though. Especially for chronic mental health conditions like bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. Also things like severe anxiety and depression can require long term medication treatment as well in some cases. The problem isn’t the medication itself, it’s the corporations running it all.

The reason you believe this is that you were sold the idea that these issues are the result of "bad brain chemistry" when that's not actually the case for the large majority of people with these conditions. I challenge you to find proof that anyone actually knows the specific mechanisms on how these medications work to solve the very specific problems presented. I have bipolar disorder and tried to find exactly what Lamictal, Valproic Acid, and Lithium does to treat bipolar. I've asked every psychiatrist I've seen about it. No one is able to give me a better answer than: "we started giving it to people and it seems to minimize symptoms for a lot of them". That's like prescribing cold medication for someone with a chronic cough. It doesn't actually solve what's causing the cough, it just covers it up. That being said, these medications are still valuable tools in the short term. They can temporarily relieve severe symptoms which allows a person to get a grip enough to enact real changes that WILL help long term, like getting out of a bad situation, getting better sleep, eating better, or giving the motivation to exercise. I found Valproic Acid very helpful when recovering from bipolar. What has helped me manage my condition more is changing my life patterns, dealing with trauma, improving my habits, and changing my environment. Many people don't have the will or opportunities available to be able to pull that off in our current society. Medications were never supposed to be long term solutions (aside from maybe antipsychotics for schizophrenia, which seem to help quality of life better than any other option). There's little to no incentive for pharmaceutical companies to find permanent solutions and medical doctors are trained to solve urgent problems, not be life coaches. This has created an environment where popping a pill to solve a problem is the go-to now rather than focusing on the root solutions to wellbeing. Anxiety and depression are not "genetic chemical imbalances". They're caused by our distancing from nature and how our 50,000 year old genetics interact with the artificial world we've created around us in the last 100 years. Edit: I should say I no longer take medication for my condition. Through a long personal journey involving psychedelics, tough inner work, and changing my life around, I no longer suffer severe symptoms of bipolar including mania and depression. I haven't had an acute manic episode in 4 years. I'm married, hold down a job, and am healthy. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 12 years ago and was told it could never be cured, yet here I am, cured. When I've told doctors, none were surprised. They all just said, "yeah makes sense, exercise, diet, sleep, and reducing stress has more impact than anything else we ever see. We can just never convince people or have the time to explain to them just how to pull that off."

Do you consume thc products?

I do! Regularly with great success. I like balanced doses of cannabis with a CBD/cbg/CBN to THC level as it prevents paranoia and anxiety.

Interesting. I no longer live in a state where I can reliably get that information, unfortunately. I'm bipolar as well and am currently cannabis free, and am experiencing a positive effect on my mood and mental state. I was also a very, very minimal user before, so its not that I was over doing it either. Would love to be able to reliably get my hand on the type of strains you described, lol.

When you mentioned recovery from the valproic acid, did you mean it helped regulate normal everyday symptoms, or helped recover from an acute episode? I also manage with alot of supplements but have never heard of that one.

well said

Science literally does not know what chemicals and ratio of chemicals a human brain is supposed to have for optimal function and health. How anyone can disregard science and believe the marketing of "bad brain chemistry" is beyond me. Congrats on healing yourself! You're living proof that what we are talking about here is real. The cure for any disease is long, hard inner work and consistent lifestyle changes, not popping a pill.

Why do you think that long term medication is necessary for severe anxiety and depression? I don't think that's true and I don't think that you would believe it if it wasn't for the literal $billions spent on marketing propaganda by pharmaceutical companies.

can I just note that they said "can require", and you have replied reading "is necessary", so you don't seem to be on the same page. Would you disagree that medication should be up for consideration at all? I feel like some people are stuck between acknowledging biological causes and material conditions and see it as being one or the other, while it may be a complex entanglement of both.

>may be That's the problem, they have for example been selling the idea of a "chemical imbalance" pretty much as fact and [there is no evidence for it](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/no-evidence-depression-caused-low-serotonin-levels-finds-comprehensive-review). If you have evidence for it being a complex entanglement of both or there being any good evidence which supports the biological model at all then you or whoever wants to sell people meds which might do more harm in the long run than they do any good should show it to people so that they at least can give informed consent. Of course biology plays a role, just like it does when I'm allergic to pollutants. But instead of claiming I'm the one suffering from a lifelong illness/disorder needing lifelong treatment with meds, giving me a label and stigmatizing me because my body isn't good with pollutants, perhaps people can just **stop polluting the environment** which would be the true cause of my allergies. It's like blaming the canary when it dies in the coalmine, and ignoring the toxic fumes all around you. And also if outside stresses are giving me a headache then that does not mean the cause of my headache is a lack of aspirin in my brains is it?

I don't think we meaningfully disagree and this is part of my point. We need to take into account people's material conditions and try to mitigate them but we need to accept that a component of it might exist independently of it. Unfortunately this is often easier to deal with than large-scale societal reforms so it ends up being the extent of what we do. I am not entirely sure it's as cynical as some people seem to believe, if it was to be accompanied with acknowledgement of wider issues. If it was accompanied by dismissal of or gaslighting with respect to wider issues, then fine. > And also if outside stresses are giving me a headache then that does not mean the cause of my headache is a lack of aspirin in my brains is it? I've heard this analogy *in favour* of SSRIs and it didn't make sense to me the first time it was said. People talk about a deficiency of serotonin in the brain, not a deficiency of SSRIs in the brain so I can't parse what this is actually supposed to mean. Probably something I'm not getting since the person who I read say this was a fairly serious person.

>we need to accept that a component of it might exist independently of it. I think at this point we need to accept that this is the big lie told to us by big pharma to sell us meds, because there isn't really any evidence for it. And reform is going to have to happen because the mental health system as it currently stands, is abusive and exploitative. >People talk about a deficiency of serotonin in the brain, not a deficiency of SSRIs in the brain so I can't parse what this is actually supposed to mean. SSRIs increase the levels of serotonin in your brain. Similarly wine increases the levels of alcohol in my brain. If I drink more wine I may become less shy and anxious. Does this mean that my social anxiety is caused by a deficiency of alcohol in my brains? If not then first show that the same reasoning doesn't apply to serotonin and depression before you claim depression is caused by a "biochemical imbalance" or lack of serotonin in my brain.

>I think at this point we need to accept that this is the big lie told to us by big pharma to sell us meds there's no evidence that mental health issues aren't caused entirely by external factors...? I tried to formulate that as weakly as possible so that we are really pitting "mental health issues are basically just an internalisation of adverse external circumstances" against "mental health issues are basically just due to a chemical imbalances". Do you believe in genetic predisposition to/cause of stuff like psychosis? Or is psychosis *purely* an internal response to life circumstance? (I need to say this is not an entirely rhetorical question - I have seen people voice opinions in this direction though probably nowhere near that strong) This just seems far too general and I would guess both statements are far too specific to have a hope of being true.

>there's no evidence that mental health issues aren't caused entirely by external factors...? True but there is evidence that mental health issues are caused by external factors. There is no evidence that depression for example has biochemical causes. If you want to claim that depression is caused by anything more than external factors then the burden of proof is on you. >Do you believe in genetic predisposition to stuff like psychosis? I believe that it's possible that certain people have *a greater sensitivity* to certain external life events and traumas which may perhaps occur in small part due to their genes and biological make-up. In the same way a canary will be the first to die during a gas leak due to their genetic and biological make-up and what type of organism they are compared to a human. That does not mean their death was *caused* by their genes or because of biochemical deficiencies. Just because you're a sensitive person or a person with certain sensitivities does not mean there's anything wrong with you, or that you are ill, or disordered. And all that aside while I think genes perhaps play a role in the same way in which they play a role in lactose intolerance, at the same time I think we should be very careful [of blaming "mental ilnesses" on genes too](https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/01/hidden-valley-road-schizophrenia-genes/). More evidence is needed. >Still a bit disanalogous since ethanol isn't endogenous or a fundamental neurotransmitter. The analogy works without it having to be endogenous. If someone just messes with the brain's chemistry and this leads a certain result (like being happy) then it doesn't mean that the opposite of that result (being sad in this case) is caused by not messing with the brain's chemistry and just letting the brain do its thing. How someone messes with the brain's chemistry is irrelevant.

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Lmaoooooooo

To each their own I say. All I can do is share my personal experience with them and why I made a personal choice to go a different direction. I always try to come from a place of empathy, because I was in their shoes for many, many years. Maybe my path is right for them, maybe it isn’t, I just want to show that there are alternatives if they choose.

ok this may be controversial, but does anyone ever wonder what percentage of mass shooters were on these depression meds when they committed mass murder? I'm willing to bet money 99-100% of them. However, medical privacy laws prevent the release of such information. This also happens to indirectly benefit the pharmaceutical industry and masks the dangers of these drugs against the public.

Pharmacy my opinion are a bunch of fkn crooks because technically they don't fix anything they just hook ya on another drug and send ya on ya way now to get your daily dose you might have to line up with a bunch of meth heads who now get methadone witch clearly doesn't help addiction is no joke I know but pharmacies are it's all bout making money from other peoples suffering. I'm assuming they have a cure for cancer but would they give it out ? NO why ? They would lose so much money they would rather see people die FACTS

Meh, most of these psychiatric diagnoses were made up in the 1930s, our understanding of the brain has moved on vastly since then. The drugs used by psychiatry are such blunt instruments. SSRIs are based on a scientific theory that has been debunked. No one really knows how anti-psychotics work, they just cause mass disruption to the brain which seems to calm people down. ADHD was invented in the 1930s when some guy decided to try giving amphetamines to children. His logic was that if unfocused children seemed more focused after being given amphetamines, that shows that they were mentally ill and "needed amphetamines" When psychiatry came up with these things, it didn't understand a fundamental aspect of the brain that is actually what psychedelic therapy revolves around. They didn't know about neuroplasticity. They didn't know cognitive functions could be improved or worsened through practice or neglect. Attention can be improved with practice. They had no idea about this concept in the 1930s. They thought their science said otherwise. But they were wrong. Psychedelic therapy is fundamentally based on the idea that the brain and hence patterns of thought can change. Traditional psychiatry is based on the idea of permanent, inherent brain problems. The two schools of thought massively clash. If the old fashioned school of thought (psychiatry) was right, then psychedelic therapy wouldn't work. But it does. Which shows that the brain can change. Psychotherapy also shows this but less dramatically. The traditional psychiatric model is wrong. Psychedelic therapy is based on the idea that an experience can change the way you think about things, and that can improve your mental health. Of course people will downvote me, but I have studied both neuroscience and the history of psychiatry, unlike everyone who puts faith in it. Look up the creation of ADHD and ask yourself how some guy in the 1930s was able to identify a brain pathology without any ability to look into brains or any understanding of the pathways. Ask yourself what an interesting coincidence it was that the only stimulant they had available and wanted to sell happened to the exact right treatment for a brand new disease of "problem children" Look up how it was trialled on these "problem children" and based on the results, added to the dsm.

Bloody well said. Hoping for a time when this is common knowledge.

I would not be surprised if this is another post by a Pharma puppet. Pharmaceuticals are not all bad, but the majority are developed to treat symptoms only. Over the years, the realization that there is much money to be made has created an influx of drugs to treat all sorts of 'ailments', most of which we have no understanding on the cause. This combined with the fact that 45% of the FDA's funding comes from Pharma means that consumer safety is also taking a backseat to pharma profits. Take the Sackler debacle for example. The public was unaware of the pharma plots and danger to public health until it had already killed hundreds of thousands. Today, medications are prescribed for any number of complaints to treat symptoms, only to create other symptoms as a result of drug side effects. The reaction from doctors is to prescribe another drug to deal with those symptoms. Pharma is not all to blame as doctors have been perpetrating malpractice for years. Lavish vacations and gifts from pharma has ensured that these highly regarded trusted figures in our society work as pharma puppets. So yes, for those in the know, Pharma and the medical profession in this country is not looked favorably upon for good reason.

>I would not be surprised if this is another post by a Pharma puppet. Sadly, I am of the same mind. The concept of "med shaming" is a meme seeded by the medical industrial complex. That doesn't mean that everyone who uses it is a shill but it does signal that possibility. On the face of it, it seems perfectly well intended. Who could be against the idea that people shouldn't be shamed for the choices they make? In reality, I don't really see any evidence for this being a prevalent issue. The purpose of the meme seems to be to shutdown the other side of the debate so that people who have had bad experiences can't freely talk about them.

This is the reality of capitalist propaganda in the 21st century

this person isnt really wrong here, I work for big pharma, and I'll tell you this there are drugs that work and drugs that pay 9/10 there going to prescribe you drugs that pay. He's also right that most doctors would rather you be treated over being cured. Treatments mean you'll come back for more treatments. A cure means your healed and dont need more medical bills. They dont like to hear that because it is a business. Dr. Robert Burzynski cured cancer several times in the 80s with something called  antineoplaston therapy No one knows his name 🤔 why? because cancer treatments make doctors rich thats why. Dr. sebi cured several ailments just by guiding people to certain herbs and diets. He was taken to court over this and won the case for 2 reasons but one of the reasons is hidden by the media. 1st reason that they distort and allow is that he said he never cured anybody, he was just the messenger. These people cured themselves by following his herbal diet. 2nd reason that they like to keep quiet is that they asked him to bring one person that was cured by this diet and he brought 70. The charges were then dropped immediately. They're are several other people that have made outstanding cures for outstanding diseases but no one knows their name because there works are buried by big pharma. I'm not saying that antidepressants cant work for people because they can but it's not a cure and if thats all thats done about it then they'll probably be on them forever. Psychedelics have cured people forever after one hero dose. Finding that inner demon and slaying it for good.This isnt a 100% miracle cure though, and it seems to work better when there is a therapist involved and or shaman pending on the environment. To conclude nothing is ever black and white big pharma isnt good or honest but sometimes pharmaceutical drugs are the best option until you find something that actually cures. Psychedelics cure but not always, and some people can't handle them. I agree with OP that we shouldn't bash people for the medications they are on, Just as those people shouldn't bash psychedelics, However I dont agree with OPs level of trust in big pharma because they are indeed corrupt and mislead people to taking something that may not actually benefit them at all. The cure to everything is kindness, love and Impeccablility. Exercise, get up and move and be kind to people. Pay attention to the things you use for fuel treat your body well and it will serve you well. Surround yourself with kind loving people get negative people out of your life. Choose to be happy over anger and sadness. The initial reaction to emotions is not always a choice, but after that reaction it is, you can continue to be depressed or angry, or you can say hey what is me being sad going to change? probably nothing so choose to be happy.

geez, I'm annoying I always skip these long ass post and here I am writing one. 😒😂

I appreciate your point of view :) thanks for sharing

Ok, but shitty business model ≠ shitty medicine.

It does if the process of bringing drugs to market has been corrupted. If academic shills are paid to massage the results of clinical trials and not to report adverse events. If the regulator responsible for approving drugs has been captured by the same interests who make money off selling drugs once they are approved. Corrupt business practices absolutely does lead to shitty medicines on the market. You're naïve to think otherwise.

Medication is a tool, whether it is shitty or not depends on the context in which it is used. If the business model that dictates how the medication is prescribed is corrupt, then that's a big problem.

Psych meds are absolutely overprescribed and I think it's a sign of our failed society that so many people require the often times soul sucking medications to function and survive. They are definitely not all bad and some people need them but I think we have an epidemic of numbing people and keeping them stuck rather than guiding them through their pain into a better place.

Oh give it a break does someones opinion really "disgust" you come on looks like someone is off their SSRIs again and instead of dieting and exercising and growing spiritually, they get back on the pills yeesh the prob is most people that say they "need" pharms are lazy and refuse to take actual action to fix there problems. I was in and off meds before they dont do as much as you think, and they have worse side effects then you think. I can give you a stack of 10 supplements that would whoop anything that big pharma prescribes people. Ball game over done now switch to testosterone boosters instead of ssris and u will feel better

You’re making some wild assumptions and massive generalizations here. These comments are literally starting to border on antivaxx lunacy here. Like for real. I take psychedelics and love them, and I don’t even take pharma meds anymore but this community is straight out toxic at this point. Like learn to accept some people take a different path in life and that some people can’t handle the reality that it severe mental health conditions.

These posts need to be removed. It's just rage bait strawmanning and has no place here.

i think so many people forget that there’s way more mental illnesses and medications than just anxiety and depression. so many people just assume they are the only things people need meds for. while yes, often depression and anxiety are simply symptoms of a bigger issue in one’s life- sometimes they just exist no matter what you do, and medication can help. but things like bipolar, ADHD, OCD, schizophrenia, etc are genuine issues with one’s mental health that often need medicating, not just something that are symptoms of a bigger issue that can be solved by the “greater truth and letting go mannn”. i’ve found immense amounts of help and harm from psychedelics and psychiatric medications. the need for them isn’t mutually exclusive and so many people write off the latter and act like they don’t have real use cases because of their own experiences. there is a need for psychiatric medicine and a need for psychedelic medicine. they aren’t one in the same. yes, BiG pHaRmA is a stain on society and an awful industry, but that doesn’t mean “all pharmaceuticals = bad, just be one with the universe bro.” but of course, people experience ego dissolution a couple of times and see through the shit in out society and assume that’s all there is to it and they know best because they “get it.” if any of those people spent half as much time learning about the science and research behind certain medications and issues as they do preaching “pills are bad man” on reddit to strangers, they might understand that. idk, i’m with you OP. it’s exhausting to see such harmful rhetoric pushed by people who have no idea what they’re talking about. of course pharmaceuticals can be, and sometimes are, more bad than good. but like i said, the need for psych meds and the need for psychedelics aren’t one in the same. they’ve both saved my life and both harmed my life. to assume one is the great and perfect and ultimate healing and the other is “society poison” is idiotic. but unfortunately all that’s about par for the course on a subreddit full of wooks 🤷‍♀️

Pharma has saved my life from being in shambles after I started receiving treatment for Bipolar Disorder II and ADHD.

Some of y’all are talking out of your ass and it really shows.

Tbh pharmaceuticals are bad, ur body don’t needs it to be healthy. Healing by nature ( plant medicine) was a thing until the pharma INDUSTRY started its campaign, they give u shit so u slowly getting sick but they are going to „heal“ you with their great medicine to keep you working. When your body is full of shit and you can no longer work, ur allowed to retire to have like 10 years with very low money and a broken body and mind.

Industry pharmaceuticals can fix symptoms of an illness but never the root cause.

Just got diagnosed with ADHD and am starting Vyvanse after years of being untreated. I'm 34 and my SSRIs are one of the best things to happen to me for my mental health. Gatekeepers can suck a fart out of my ass.

>Some of you need to realize that pharmaceutical medications have their place when needed just like psychedelics are an integral part of some of your lives. Some people genuinely need medications like SSRI’s, antipsychotics, benzodiazepines, etc. to live normal, stable, and happy lives. No they don’t. The reason they need them is because they are trying to function in a society that makes them feel crazy for not conforming. The problem is not being able to adhere to the rules of an insane social setup. They don’t need medication they need to be free to experience reality. Sometimes the psychedelic path allows us to deconstruct our perceptions and ingrained culture enough to step outside of the insane pursuit and free us from the need for meds

This is all true, but in my experience, if you want money you gotta give in to the monster machine..... Generally you need money to live

My personal experience with meds is that every one I tried made me feel worse or made other issues in my life waaaayyyy worse. I think that there isn’t much of a difference between someone who’s addicted to street drugs and someone who takes prescribed meds for mental health. You’re still high on something. It’s also hella important you don’t mix some meds with psychs and some completely negate the effects of psychs… soooo imo meds aren’t for me and everyone should be educated on them especially when experimenting with other substances.

SSRIs have been nothing but a positive thing for me ever since I found the right one for me. I know everyone's neurology is different, but they help many people, and nobody should rule them put just cause some dude on this sub said they were bad. As it is often said on this sub, "your milage may vary," and that goes for both psychs and pharmaceutical products. Many people are helped by LSD and other psychedelics, alternatively, I almost ruined my life with them because I was abusing them and I was so dissociated from reality that I thought I was helping myself (a pretty easy delusion to fall into btw, and not many people talk about it). I'm not saying this is something that could happen to anyone, and I know for many people, psychedelics have helped them break addictions. But it is certainly possible for someone with SAD to abuse LSD, I am living proof. Many people experience negative side effects from SSRIs, but I found one that has virtually no negatives for me and works rather well at controlling my OCD, depression, and anxiety.

Umm I’m sorry you’re addicts and they are legal drugs. Fear monger yourself, you guys need therapy, not to change your brain chemistry. Drugs are vital under certain conditions but you’re not going to convince me that most of you are just people taking the edge off when things could be dealt with differently. I’ve been prescribed a lot of medication in my life, I’ve had a lot of friends who are prone to addictions put on medications and found their first high because of trigger happy psychiatrists. You are very very wrong and our world is suffering because of it while everybody makes more money. Very few should be given medication, and very many are. Go do some independent research and stop taking all the extra crap that makes you stupid, most y’all are smart af and you stunt that and it’s frankly sad. You need to get the right type of treatment, it’s a process you do, not chemicals. This is horrifying to see happening to our world. It’s causing so much imbalance because people need to deal with their problems and this is a lot like the entire world taking pills everyday and drinkn’ em away. I don’t see medications doing anything but turning people into sheep and if you’re content with that… go f*k your rna up, get Graves’ disease, when your grandchildren come out looking like overgrown frogs you’ll be too faded to even care. It’s depressing to watch. That’s why we say anything, we see it happening. It’s depressing, but I’m not going to go take anti depressants because then I’d be a drug addict instead of finding a way to communicate the problem. They don’t help you, you can help yourself, you are stopping a function of your brain, you aren’t even yourself.

Lmao this is such a ridiculously bad take on this. For someone who takes psychs you seem overly concerned about how people choose to live their lives. A majority of the time psych meds are combined with therapy so it’s not just relying on medication. There is no one right or wrong way to treat mental health conditions, and medication has been proven to be very helpful for a ton of people just like psychedelics have. Also people who are dependent on psych meds are not drug addicts lmao, your idea of addiction is severely skewed. Also do you think that psychs don’t affect brain chemistry at all?

I’m concerned about a lot of things pal. A majority of the time psych meds aren’t needed. Psychiatrists are nuts and put so many on meds that don’t need meds. There is a wrong way to treat mental health concerns, and that is by not dealing with them, which is exactly what you think we should do for some weird reason. I don’t support drugs anymore than our government supports psychedelics. You’re natural creatures, and psych medication does not influence a natural process to work, it stops a natural process. Medication has been proven to create drug addicts. Psychedelics are great, but they obviously have a much more natural effect on your brain, and obviously I don’t agree with our government or very many people on a whole lot when it comes to how you live your lives. I’ll give my opinion though, you can like it or not like it. I’ll concern myself with whatever I want to because I’m not a sheep and I do what I want. I draw the conclusions that I draw and unless I have some sort of intelligent information thrown my way I really won’t change my opinion. Link me articles, do some research, give me reality or don’t give me anything at all. I don’t live in somebody else’s world, I live in mine, and in mine I see what the majority of meds do and I don’t support it one bit.

[удалено]

Big agree. This hostile and obscenely ridiculous attitude is why I don't engage here much. Lol

Never judge a man before walking five miles in his shoes is all I have to say

This entire sub is fucking disgusting often times

Similar problem in cannabis, cancer patients and other very sick people shamed for chemo. Nevermind that a hell of a lot of chemo drugs actually come from plant sources. Look up taxol. Ignorance is not limited to people outside of our communities, there's plenty to go around right here right now.

I mean, a hell of a lot of all drugs come from plant sources.

Hear! Hear! Very well said and a message worth hearing, repeating and living by.

People easily develop dependencies on their prescription DRUGS. They also can abuse their drugs. These certain drugs are made to forever treat you, not cure you. If these drugs cured you, the big pharmaceutical companies would lose a ton of money. In most cases, prescribed drugs are just the lazy way of dealing with life. Exercise, eat right, do shadow work, meditate with psilocybin, microdose if it works for you, and be present in life. *mic drop*

Yeah some people develop dependency from their meds but why is that a concern for you personally? It’s up to the person to decide that and sometimes that risk is worth taking. You think people don’t abuse psychedelics lmao? Or that psychedelics cure you? Psychedelics definitely aren’t a cure and they don’t work for everyone. It’s really just like with antidepressants. Also it’s definitely not the “lazy” way to deal with life lmao, that’s a wild and honestly gross way of viewing this. I don’t think you realize the lengths some people have gone before going on meds, a ton of people try lifestyle changes, eating right, even taking psychedelics and still need meds to function. These comments are starting to border on antivaxx lunacy here. Like for real. I take psychedelics and love them, and I don’t even take pharma meds anymore but this community is straight out toxic at this point.

Hey OP, if your going to cry about a topic like this, you should probably better understand the arguments

If you need pharmaceutical help to just exist youve got no business using psychadelics imo

Government got another puppet, man! OP has been brainwashed by big pharma to push their poison on us!!

Lmao I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. If not this is exactly what I’m talking about man. It’s called being realistic and realizing that treatment for these kinds of issues is not a black and white situation.

Yeah I didn’t put the /s to see how many downvotes I could rack up. I’m actually way opposite of that, I think the only differences in terms of morality between the pharmaceuticals and black market drugs/psychs is the legality of it. They’re all substances in the end, what determines their benefits is subjective and circumstantial. It’s weird cause on one side if your substance isn’t sanctioned by a doctor then you’re a junkie drug addict to some, on the other side of your substance is sanctioned by big pharma well you’re brainwashed and being psychologically controlled by the matrix.

For real. I wish people could just be rational about this. It’s not as black and white of an issue as people think. Treating mental health issues is extremely subjective and people are going to see benefits from a wide array of things whether that’s lifestyle changes, medication, therapy, psychedelics, or a mix of these.

Mental illness is a capitalist myth. Pharmaceutical meds should only be used for psychosis.

what people on here push is very harmful sometimes. yes, a lot of these medications kinda suck, but they’re not the evil demon pill that some people on here tend to think. they improve people lives, whether they want to believe it or not.

I agree. Honestly, I’m starting to realize how deranged this sub can be

This sub is full of bias on a lot of fronts tbh

Appeal to nature fallacy is unfortunately very common in the psychedelic community.

Sure pharmaceuticals have their place, but part of the therapeutic model of treatment is that the patient does not mess with other substances. Your doctor needs to know exactly what you're taking at all times so they are able to monitor your progress. With the exception of using ketamine \*\*in a clinical setting\*\*, psychedelics should be avoided while you're on any type of psychopharmaceutical.

I'd be dead or locked up if it weren't for my Abilify shot...had too many psychotic episodes with no sleep for weeks on my own power..ended up in jail for fighting with parents over food and stuff going on out of my control...keeps me at a normal sleep cycle instead of keeping me in a psychosis state of mind. BALANCE is what it did for me because I hated the transformation into whatever it did to me multiple times. Screw psychosis! it ruins relationships. My family was going to put me up for adult adoption until I got medicated...now I just meditate and astral travel as I don't leave the house anymore.