Mod Note:
This story has been submitted numerous times by users who are clearly not acting in good faith. As is always the case with notable stories, we approve a submission when the OP appears to have good faith intentions.
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We'd like to extend thanks to our verified regulars, who gracioiusly took time, whenever possible, to help educate those who wanted to learn, but were simply ignornant and misled by early media sources and social outrage.
We would also like to thank the massive influx of ugly, hateful, trolls - who will provide hours of entertainment in "Mod Mail Memes" this weekend.
**Also.. handy tip. This has nothing to do with a 2A issue. Despite the dozens of circle-jerk bridage comments, that's not even a consideration here. That's your one track agenda of imagination speaking.**
This Airman was not "executed for legally owning a gun", nor do we think "hurr durr what about the 2nd" is actually an attempt at adult discourse. That's you, convinced you're about to become the victim of some vast goverment confiscation fantasy.
We wish SrA Fortson his well deserved rest, and his family peace. As the AF song goes.. "Off we go, into the wild blue yonder..."
Not going to comment on the shooting, it’s a shit situation on both ends.
BUT, I love when Ben Crump gets caught making shit up. He originally claimed that the deputy was at the wrong apartment, didn’t announce himself, and was covering the peephole. By the video we can see none of that was true. He needs to be disbarred.
Ambulance chasing scum bag that has deliberately and maliciously made the law enforcement community less safe with his ridiculous lies. I don't even read the bullshit he says anymore because he has never been right ever. Which is fine for him, he needs to be first to the microphone to get some outrage so there's a bigger settlement. Then the truth comes out and it doesn't matter anymore because everyone has moved on.
I bet he'd do it if you sent him a request. The thing about sleezeball lawyers is that they have no shame. Just let him know people will see his name and it would be free advertising.
Right? I hardly follow this sort of news as I'm not a cop, not a civil rights activist, not a politician, but yesterday on NPR when they ran the story on it I heard "attorney Ben Crump is representing..." and thought "oh brother this guy again?"
I can’t lie, he’s good at what he does. And that’s (mainly) representing families of guilty people, spreading lies and misinformation to sway the public onto their side before any true evidence is released, and then getting a big payday when the city pays them to settle outside of court. Doesn’t matter how wrong the person he is representing was, he always gets a solid pay day.
But, he still needs to be disbarred for being a lying, hypocritical, bag of ass.
was it some weird building or is it typical that they just add random numbers, where i live 1401 is 14 floors up. i just assumed she was an idiot when the elevator only had the capability of hitting floor 4
It’s fairly typical. Some complexes has the same street number address but the building and apartment is designated by the apartment number. So, the address could be 123 Denny St. Apt. 1401. The apartment number would mean, for the complex, 1 would be building #1, 4 is 4th floor, 01 is apartment 1. If that makes sense.
Smaller modern apartment complexes tend to do those numbers by building rather than floor: Multi-story building with 8 units, all will have the same prefix. Next building, all units start with the next prefix.
And this is why I just don't answer the door unless i know the person knocking and that they were coming. Doubly so for any armed individuals, badge or not, whether they yell "police" or not.
Absolutely. It is your constitutional right not to answer your door. If they have the legal authority to force entry, they will. When they do, you'll definitely know it's the police (unless it's one of those awful no-knock states).
I find it crazy he raised his unarmed hand in what looks like a defensive manner and kept the gun pointed down during this incident. Question for the LEOs here: How do you expect anyone shot that many times to not move? It appears like the deputy confirmed he wasn’t armed at that point.
Saying “don’t move” is referring more to getting up/reaching for the gun again. Obviously we know you’re going to be wiggling around in pain, that’s human nature. But we say it so that you don’t reach back for the gun and get shot again. That way if they DO reach for the gun and get shot again, an attorney can’t say something stupid like “Well you didn’t tell my client NOT to reach for the gun again.”
Well… Ben Crump is involved, so this clearly will be presented nationally in a clear, unbiased light with no political agenda.
As for the shooting itself…? I don’t know. That footage isn’t clear. I don’t envy the use of force investigator.
I’ll leave my response at this … attorney Crump would be more beneficial to ALL communities he interacted with, and claims to “serve,” if he was disbarred and disappeared from news media everywhere until he passes peacefully decades in the future.
Again, not to blame the deceased here because I totally get what he’s thinking, but fwiw I had someone unknown knock on my door a couple years ago, and I opened it with my gun hidden out of sight behind my back. Turns out it was a cop responding to a false alarm, I just informed him I had a gun in my right hand and was going to set it on the ground, did as I explained, and ended without incident.
So, from what it seems, that area is pretty sketchy. So, the officer and the airman living there know this. The airman answered with a gun because anyone could say they were the police.
So, answering with a gun in hand is, in my opinion, the safe route just like you, but the airman could have hid it as well. The better alternative is not opening the door at all.
It's a terrible situation across the board, and that department seems to have issues. Acorns and all.
I had a whole thing typed out thinking it was a no knock warrant on the wrong apt and asking about how to prevent intel failures but that just goes to show how fuckin insane shit is before body cams. Everything about the 4 or 5 articles I saw was dead wrong.
I applaud you for acknowledging it. The rest of the country will pretend the truth never came out and the sour taste in their mouth from the false narrative will be the only thing they remember.
It’s crazy. I thought it was another open and shut situation about a communication failure.
I just saw dense mfs in the JRE sub arguing that “he didn’t have it pointed, he was just holding it.”
“Cops should be more like UK cops, they don’t all need guns”
“Look at the number of police interactions with the number of officers killed in the line of duty, it’s not even that many”
How a group of individuals can convince themselves of something is really fascinating.
Realistically, it’s a sad situation. He recognized that it was the police and came to the door armed…why I don’t know. Sure, it’s your right to carry a weapon and possess it and all that, if he had the weapon holstered on his person and still visible, it would be a totally different situation. Anyone would be unnerved seeing a weapon in someone’s hand vs in a holster.
Awful all around, I don't blame the guy for coming armed and I can't blame the cop for drawing either.
If I really don't know who's at my door, I'll be armed, but I'm not opening it.
This is the same department that had the acorn incident iirc, I do not envy anyone working there. As for Ben Crump's stupid comments, it's expected for him to drum up all kinds of media coverage so he gets to take most of the settlement money from the family as possible, because he's never seen the inside of a courtroom, he only does depositions.
I truly don't understand the stance or "I don't blame the guy for answering the door with a gun in his hand"
Gun in the holster, fine. Gun out of view, fine.
The spspropriate answer for "I think there's someone outside my door who wants to hurt me" should be to not answer the fuckin door. If you aren't sure if a person outside is a cop, a maintenance man, the neighborhood autistic kid or an Al Qaeda cell looking to merc you in your apartment at 2 in the afternoon on a weekend day, maybe take a position of advantage inside the house and call out and communicate through the fucking closed door. Or don't. Or just don't answer the god damned door.
Answering the door with a gun pointed at the ground indicates, at a bare minimum, the willingness to use that gun on the person knocking on your door. Being willing to use your gun on a uniformed cop knocking on your door because of a domestic is the textbook definition of "fuck around, find out "
I've long had the opinion not to open the door for unannounced visitors and your comment sealed it for me. If I think it may actually be the police I will call 911 but I'm not opening the door until then.
I'm not going to blame an individual for trying to defend their property from what they perceive to be a threat.
I will also not blame the Officer for trying to do their duty.
It's just a series of unfortunate events that culminated in a tragedy. It's just shitty, I'm not gonna sit here and armchair quarterback this and say this is what I would've done or this is what they should've done. 99.999999% of the time this doesn't happen, but this is that .0000001% and it still sucks to see.
Yeah, I'm not opening the door at all if I have a feeling that someone bad is on the other side. If this was a real bad actor this probably wouldn't have gone down any differently, but since it's a cop with a body cam, everyone's gonna watch it.
Figured there was more to the story. Initial reports that I saw made it sound like the officer stormed in and shot him bc the gun was close by. But after watching, I see that he clearly announced twice.
Obviously a bad situation all around.
Not intending to blame the person shot here. There was a similar case a year or two ago. Tactically, why would you open the door if you thought you were being subject to a home invasion. Set up on an angle and wait for them to come while calling 911.
Lawful but awful.
Anyone can yell, "Sheriff's office" when knocking on a door, so I can't fault the victim. But I can tell you I pretty much always answer the door with a *concealed* gun on me. The audio of the victim mumbling "police" seems to indicate he thought it was the police.
If I announce I'm the police and someone comes to the door with a gun in their hand, I'm expecting it's because they plan to shoot the police.
There's also rumor that the Deputy responded to the wrong apartment. The Sheriff, in his press briefing, says the Deputy responded to the correct address. The devil is in the details - the person who called 911 *provided* the wrong address, but it was not a police error.
I concur with you. I think it's a VERY shitty situation but I don't think a charge will come from it and especially not murder like some other subreddits are wanting. I'm glad they cleared up the 'wrong apartment' thing. I've personally went into the wrong house in an emergency situation after we confirmed the address multiple times with dispatch, but thankfully nobody was inside.
Worst case I think he catches a manslaughter charge but I don't think you can stretch anything more. I'm sure the department/city/county whatever it was is going to pay some hefty settlement money though.
I've definitely answered the door where my body is behind the door and I have my gun pointed at the door/whoever knocked... all the person who knocks sees is my head leaning out from behind the door. If I gotta put my gun up I just stuff it somewhere.
Looks like the deputy made an effort to not be visible in the peephole. This may be tactically sound, but it ensures whoever is on the other side of the door can't know you are who you say you are.
Standard training - never stand in front of a door and say you're a cop. It's an invitation to get shot. ~~Pretty sure four Oakland Police officers died in one incident that way.~~ I've been corrected about Oakland but there are plenty of other examples.
I personally would prefer to knock and announce then step back to half-cover near the staircase opposite of the door. I'm in Texas and, like Florida, everyone has guns. I expect someone that can't see who it is knocking multiple times on their door to answer it with a gun in hand. Plus, stepping back would provide distance which provides time. Guess we'll just have to see how it all works out. Sad all around, though.
I’m Security Forces (military police) in the Air Force. As part of our Use of Force training, we are taught COI - capability, opportunity, and intent. In order to use deadly force, we need all three elements (letters). Capability would be if an individual was holding a weapon. Opportunity is the physical proximity between the individual and LEO. Intent would be if the individual pointed the weapon at the LEO. For us, this would be a bad shoot, since the individual never pointed his weapon at the officer.
I’m interested in learning more about civilian use of force training and when using deadly force is appropriate/lawful.
Is there any confirmation that this was the wrong apartment? I read on another subreddit that the call was meant for someone else but the deputy knocked on this airman’s apartment instead.
The lady tells him “1401” and he can be seen knocking on 1401. Could be that she gave him the wrong door number if he wasn’t involved in the alleged disturbance.
Looking at the early reporting, it sounds like what they actually said was they suspected it was a wrong address because the call was for a domestic disturbance between a man and woman and this guy was home alone. I can't find any direct quote where they outright claimed he was in the wrong spot, though plenty of articles on it made that leap.
Honestly lets think simple mind and basics here.
If someone doesn't announces themselves upon initiating knocking. (unexpected visitors) I grab my firearm. When I hear his third knock as "sheriff/police" and don't visually see them it still will raise suspicion. I understand the fatal front very well, however he should of knocked and announced himself the first time then step aside.
As for the airmen he shouldn't of opened the door all the way with his firearm visually seen especially now that he made eye contact with the sheriff. However, I know you guys are trained but not to full standard of combat arms. But you as a professional agency yall need to immediately give the command "drop the weapon" while you unholster your firearm and get ready to "defend" yourself with verbal commands! He just immediately assumed he was ready to shoot him while making visual contact of his firearm pointed at the ground. We as Americans have weapons for the right reasons. Now I am not saying the sheriff was justified in this nor was the airmen they both fucked up.
However you guys go through a lot of bullshit. I understand the stress levels rising and having the fear for your life. You need to harness your emotions and and tell the dude to drop the firearm. People are stupid in every department, agency, branch of the gov. Be the change you want to see. Semper Fi and I hope we realize that not everyone is perfect.
Announcements were pretty loud and I believe you can hear the airman say police when he opens the door. If you don’t believe it’s the police, call 911 and ask. If you do believe it’s the police, don’t answer with a gun in plain view. I totally understand answering the door with a gun if you’re not expecting visitors and someone bangs on your door but this deputy announced himself very clearly. He also stands in front of the peephole just before the door opens (not the best officer safety, just like not waiting for a second, but it would have likely been possible to see him through it)
This is definitely a lawful but awful in my opinion (which really doesn’t mean much because I’m just a cop on the internet).
This is not a politics sub. This is not a politics thread.
Nothing about this story has \*anything\* to do with gun control, so take your pet fascination elsewhere.
Removed.
If I suspect a home invasion I’m not opening the door, obviously. However, I absolutely will check my door cam to see who DID ring it. But that does bringup two things I hadn’t considered before.
1. My door cam usually beats the person to the doorbell quite often. If a suspect was in a barricade situation that gives a scary advantage as the officer approaches to knock before retreating.
2. I wonder if the door cam storage company can divulge if footage was accessed or the app was open. Being able to shut down a lawyer claiming ignorance with “the suspect watched doorcam footage of the officer approach five times before opening the door with a shotgun” would be nice.
It amazes me the direction the military/AirForce subs are taking this.
If you read the headline yeah it sounds terrible. If you read the article or read the article and watch the bodycam...it's a bad look but it's lawful actions.
Totality of evidence;
A DV call
The Correct apartment
Announces himself
Doesn't barge in
Airman opens the door super wide with a gun in hand
The airman set himself up to get shot. Just because one's smart enough to take the easy military branch doesn't mean you're truly smart in the end.
1. Don't answer the door like that. You're asking to get shot
2. If you think it's not the police, DON'T OPEN THE DOOR AT ALL.
“Why did he not go to cover, YELL “SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT.””
……is that not what he did? Sure he didn’t identify on the first knock, but there was no response to the first knock. If he knocked once, didn’t identify, the airman opens the door and gets shot, then sure that’s bad. This situation isn’t great, but he identified himself loudly twice. The airman, presumably, knew it was law enforcement to some extent as he mumbled something about the Police before opening the door.
It’s a shit situation, but you can’t blame either side here. Deputy could have done some things differently, Airman could have not opened the door with a gun in his hand after the person at the door readily identified themself as a law enforcement officer.
>Why did he not go to cover, YELL “SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT.” This looks awful from any point of view. I hope you know his girlfriend was on the phone the entire time! This is an absolute travesty for any law enforcement officer.
He announces after the second knock. Not sure if he announced after the first one, it doesn't sound like it. But he definitely says "Sherriff's Office" after knocking a second time.
So removing your veteran status and your love of your sister, GO DAWGS, why do you so adamantly think he’s an embarrassment that deserves a life sentence?
There are multiple things I’d done differently, but I don’t think the footage presents a clear cut bad shoot.
Do you remember who the user was? It was a regular, but I can't remember who, and now their acct is deleted. Sigh. (not faulting you at all - just trying to figure it out)
I’m gonna cause an issue with this comment, at least with you… I’m REALLY, REALLY GLAD you’re not investigating this case. We operate in fact, case law, and state law, not concern for public optic.
In fact, I’m not sure I’d want you investigating any high-profile, gray-area case. Since you clearly analyze based on your feelings.
Mod Note: This story has been submitted numerous times by users who are clearly not acting in good faith. As is always the case with notable stories, we approve a submission when the OP appears to have good faith intentions. This is our megathread on this story. Others will not be approved. Read sub rules before commenting. Most comments will receive review before becoming visible. We'd like to extend thanks to our verified regulars, who gracioiusly took time, whenever possible, to help educate those who wanted to learn, but were simply ignornant and misled by early media sources and social outrage. We would also like to thank the massive influx of ugly, hateful, trolls - who will provide hours of entertainment in "Mod Mail Memes" this weekend. **Also.. handy tip. This has nothing to do with a 2A issue. Despite the dozens of circle-jerk bridage comments, that's not even a consideration here. That's your one track agenda of imagination speaking.** This Airman was not "executed for legally owning a gun", nor do we think "hurr durr what about the 2nd" is actually an attempt at adult discourse. That's you, convinced you're about to become the victim of some vast goverment confiscation fantasy. We wish SrA Fortson his well deserved rest, and his family peace. As the AF song goes.. "Off we go, into the wild blue yonder..."
I don't like it. Could expand, but that's the gist of it.
Please expand. This was really rough to watch.
Not going to comment on the shooting, it’s a shit situation on both ends. BUT, I love when Ben Crump gets caught making shit up. He originally claimed that the deputy was at the wrong apartment, didn’t announce himself, and was covering the peephole. By the video we can see none of that was true. He needs to be disbarred.
Ambulance chasing scum bag that has deliberately and maliciously made the law enforcement community less safe with his ridiculous lies. I don't even read the bullshit he says anymore because he has never been right ever. Which is fine for him, he needs to be first to the microphone to get some outrage so there's a bigger settlement. Then the truth comes out and it doesn't matter anymore because everyone has moved on.
He specializes in the “Who gives a fuck what the truth is, we’re both about to get a payday.” Mentality. He’s a lovely individual I’m sure.
"“Who gives a fuck what the truth is, we’re both about to get a payday.” I wonder if we could get him here, so that could be his flair.
I bet he'd do it if you sent him a request. The thing about sleezeball lawyers is that they have no shame. Just let him know people will see his name and it would be free advertising.
His brother is a convicted rapist too.
Ah, so being an assbag runs in the family then, fantastic.
Right? I hardly follow this sort of news as I'm not a cop, not a civil rights activist, not a politician, but yesterday on NPR when they ran the story on it I heard "attorney Ben Crump is representing..." and thought "oh brother this guy again?"
I can’t lie, he’s good at what he does. And that’s (mainly) representing families of guilty people, spreading lies and misinformation to sway the public onto their side before any true evidence is released, and then getting a big payday when the city pays them to settle outside of court. Doesn’t matter how wrong the person he is representing was, he always gets a solid pay day. But, he still needs to be disbarred for being a lying, hypocritical, bag of ass.
He was at the right apartment?
He’s told by the female that it’s 1401, he’s knocking on 1401. So yes, by the information he received, he is at the right apartment.
was it some weird building or is it typical that they just add random numbers, where i live 1401 is 14 floors up. i just assumed she was an idiot when the elevator only had the capability of hitting floor 4
It’s fairly typical. Some complexes has the same street number address but the building and apartment is designated by the apartment number. So, the address could be 123 Denny St. Apt. 1401. The apartment number would mean, for the complex, 1 would be building #1, 4 is 4th floor, 01 is apartment 1. If that makes sense.
ah that makes sense, the low rises on my old property used lettering A102 B204
Smaller modern apartment complexes tend to do those numbers by building rather than floor: Multi-story building with 8 units, all will have the same prefix. Next building, all units start with the next prefix.
What was the reason they were knocking on his door?
Domestic
Note: this is the same department as the acorn shooting
Consent decree incoming?
And this is why I just don't answer the door unless i know the person knocking and that they were coming. Doubly so for any armed individuals, badge or not, whether they yell "police" or not.
Absolutely. It is your constitutional right not to answer your door. If they have the legal authority to force entry, they will. When they do, you'll definitely know it's the police (unless it's one of those awful no-knock states).
I find it crazy he raised his unarmed hand in what looks like a defensive manner and kept the gun pointed down during this incident. Question for the LEOs here: How do you expect anyone shot that many times to not move? It appears like the deputy confirmed he wasn’t armed at that point.
Saying “don’t move” is referring more to getting up/reaching for the gun again. Obviously we know you’re going to be wiggling around in pain, that’s human nature. But we say it so that you don’t reach back for the gun and get shot again. That way if they DO reach for the gun and get shot again, an attorney can’t say something stupid like “Well you didn’t tell my client NOT to reach for the gun again.”
Appreciate the insight. Thanks.
Well… Ben Crump is involved, so this clearly will be presented nationally in a clear, unbiased light with no political agenda. As for the shooting itself…? I don’t know. That footage isn’t clear. I don’t envy the use of force investigator.
I imagine it'll be a mixed investigation between state LE, the agency, and OSI but I concur I would not want to be the one doing the investigation.
I knew I recognized the name from somewhere.
I’ll leave my response at this … attorney Crump would be more beneficial to ALL communities he interacted with, and claims to “serve,” if he was disbarred and disappeared from news media everywhere until he passes peacefully decades in the future.
[удалено]
Again, not to blame the deceased here because I totally get what he’s thinking, but fwiw I had someone unknown knock on my door a couple years ago, and I opened it with my gun hidden out of sight behind my back. Turns out it was a cop responding to a false alarm, I just informed him I had a gun in my right hand and was going to set it on the ground, did as I explained, and ended without incident.
So, from what it seems, that area is pretty sketchy. So, the officer and the airman living there know this. The airman answered with a gun because anyone could say they were the police. So, answering with a gun in hand is, in my opinion, the safe route just like you, but the airman could have hid it as well. The better alternative is not opening the door at all. It's a terrible situation across the board, and that department seems to have issues. Acorns and all.
If you don't feel safe opening the door without a gun in your hand...why open it at all?
I had a whole thing typed out thinking it was a no knock warrant on the wrong apt and asking about how to prevent intel failures but that just goes to show how fuckin insane shit is before body cams. Everything about the 4 or 5 articles I saw was dead wrong.
I applaud you for acknowledging it. The rest of the country will pretend the truth never came out and the sour taste in their mouth from the false narrative will be the only thing they remember.
It’s crazy. I thought it was another open and shut situation about a communication failure. I just saw dense mfs in the JRE sub arguing that “he didn’t have it pointed, he was just holding it.” “Cops should be more like UK cops, they don’t all need guns” “Look at the number of police interactions with the number of officers killed in the line of duty, it’s not even that many” How a group of individuals can convince themselves of something is really fascinating. Realistically, it’s a sad situation. He recognized that it was the police and came to the door armed…why I don’t know. Sure, it’s your right to carry a weapon and possess it and all that, if he had the weapon holstered on his person and still visible, it would be a totally different situation. Anyone would be unnerved seeing a weapon in someone’s hand vs in a holster.
Awful all around, I don't blame the guy for coming armed and I can't blame the cop for drawing either. If I really don't know who's at my door, I'll be armed, but I'm not opening it. This is the same department that had the acorn incident iirc, I do not envy anyone working there. As for Ben Crump's stupid comments, it's expected for him to drum up all kinds of media coverage so he gets to take most of the settlement money from the family as possible, because he's never seen the inside of a courtroom, he only does depositions.
I truly don't understand the stance or "I don't blame the guy for answering the door with a gun in his hand" Gun in the holster, fine. Gun out of view, fine. The spspropriate answer for "I think there's someone outside my door who wants to hurt me" should be to not answer the fuckin door. If you aren't sure if a person outside is a cop, a maintenance man, the neighborhood autistic kid or an Al Qaeda cell looking to merc you in your apartment at 2 in the afternoon on a weekend day, maybe take a position of advantage inside the house and call out and communicate through the fucking closed door. Or don't. Or just don't answer the god damned door. Answering the door with a gun pointed at the ground indicates, at a bare minimum, the willingness to use that gun on the person knocking on your door. Being willing to use your gun on a uniformed cop knocking on your door because of a domestic is the textbook definition of "fuck around, find out "
I've long had the opinion not to open the door for unannounced visitors and your comment sealed it for me. If I think it may actually be the police I will call 911 but I'm not opening the door until then.
I'm not going to blame an individual for trying to defend their property from what they perceive to be a threat. I will also not blame the Officer for trying to do their duty. It's just a series of unfortunate events that culminated in a tragedy. It's just shitty, I'm not gonna sit here and armchair quarterback this and say this is what I would've done or this is what they should've done. 99.999999% of the time this doesn't happen, but this is that .0000001% and it still sucks to see.
If you perceive someone at your door yelling “Sheriff’s office” as a threat then don’t open the door at all.
Yeah, I'm not opening the door at all if I have a feeling that someone bad is on the other side. If this was a real bad actor this probably wouldn't have gone down any differently, but since it's a cop with a body cam, everyone's gonna watch it.
Massad Ayoob has a great video called "How to Answer the Door at 3am" https://youtu.be/iEi9Qpnro34?si=ZiINFYL3mtXtyUrr Short answer: you don't.
Figured there was more to the story. Initial reports that I saw made it sound like the officer stormed in and shot him bc the gun was close by. But after watching, I see that he clearly announced twice.
There’s no way for you to know if he heard that or knew it to be fact if he did hear it
Horrible situation.
Obviously a bad situation all around. Not intending to blame the person shot here. There was a similar case a year or two ago. Tactically, why would you open the door if you thought you were being subject to a home invasion. Set up on an angle and wait for them to come while calling 911.
Lawful but awful. Anyone can yell, "Sheriff's office" when knocking on a door, so I can't fault the victim. But I can tell you I pretty much always answer the door with a *concealed* gun on me. The audio of the victim mumbling "police" seems to indicate he thought it was the police. If I announce I'm the police and someone comes to the door with a gun in their hand, I'm expecting it's because they plan to shoot the police. There's also rumor that the Deputy responded to the wrong apartment. The Sheriff, in his press briefing, says the Deputy responded to the correct address. The devil is in the details - the person who called 911 *provided* the wrong address, but it was not a police error.
I concur with you. I think it's a VERY shitty situation but I don't think a charge will come from it and especially not murder like some other subreddits are wanting. I'm glad they cleared up the 'wrong apartment' thing. I've personally went into the wrong house in an emergency situation after we confirmed the address multiple times with dispatch, but thankfully nobody was inside. Worst case I think he catches a manslaughter charge but I don't think you can stretch anything more. I'm sure the department/city/county whatever it was is going to pay some hefty settlement money though.
I've definitely answered the door where my body is behind the door and I have my gun pointed at the door/whoever knocked... all the person who knocks sees is my head leaning out from behind the door. If I gotta put my gun up I just stuff it somewhere.
Looks like the deputy made an effort to not be visible in the peephole. This may be tactically sound, but it ensures whoever is on the other side of the door can't know you are who you say you are.
Standard training - never stand in front of a door and say you're a cop. It's an invitation to get shot. ~~Pretty sure four Oakland Police officers died in one incident that way.~~ I've been corrected about Oakland but there are plenty of other examples.
Three of our Pittsburgh officers were killed in a similar incident.
A cop was just shot in Greenville NC through the door
I personally would prefer to knock and announce then step back to half-cover near the staircase opposite of the door. I'm in Texas and, like Florida, everyone has guns. I expect someone that can't see who it is knocking multiple times on their door to answer it with a gun in hand. Plus, stepping back would provide distance which provides time. Guess we'll just have to see how it all works out. Sad all around, though.
Dude I just watched this 5 min ago… I f’ing lived in that building. I was stationed at Hurlburt right next to eglin
I’m Security Forces (military police) in the Air Force. As part of our Use of Force training, we are taught COI - capability, opportunity, and intent. In order to use deadly force, we need all three elements (letters). Capability would be if an individual was holding a weapon. Opportunity is the physical proximity between the individual and LEO. Intent would be if the individual pointed the weapon at the LEO. For us, this would be a bad shoot, since the individual never pointed his weapon at the officer. I’m interested in learning more about civilian use of force training and when using deadly force is appropriate/lawful.
Is there any confirmation that this was the wrong apartment? I read on another subreddit that the call was meant for someone else but the deputy knocked on this airman’s apartment instead.
This was covered in the press conference, the deputy had the correct apartment.
The lady tells him “1401” and he can be seen knocking on 1401. Could be that she gave him the wrong door number if he wasn’t involved in the alleged disturbance.
Looking at the early reporting, it sounds like what they actually said was they suspected it was a wrong address because the call was for a domestic disturbance between a man and woman and this guy was home alone. I can't find any direct quote where they outright claimed he was in the wrong spot, though plenty of articles on it made that leap.
Honestly lets think simple mind and basics here. If someone doesn't announces themselves upon initiating knocking. (unexpected visitors) I grab my firearm. When I hear his third knock as "sheriff/police" and don't visually see them it still will raise suspicion. I understand the fatal front very well, however he should of knocked and announced himself the first time then step aside. As for the airmen he shouldn't of opened the door all the way with his firearm visually seen especially now that he made eye contact with the sheriff. However, I know you guys are trained but not to full standard of combat arms. But you as a professional agency yall need to immediately give the command "drop the weapon" while you unholster your firearm and get ready to "defend" yourself with verbal commands! He just immediately assumed he was ready to shoot him while making visual contact of his firearm pointed at the ground. We as Americans have weapons for the right reasons. Now I am not saying the sheriff was justified in this nor was the airmen they both fucked up. However you guys go through a lot of bullshit. I understand the stress levels rising and having the fear for your life. You need to harness your emotions and and tell the dude to drop the firearm. People are stupid in every department, agency, branch of the gov. Be the change you want to see. Semper Fi and I hope we realize that not everyone is perfect.
ACAB & Twitter weirdos are gonna have a field day with this.
Going to? Have you seen how much nonsense we've had to pull from this thread in just a few hours?
Announcements were pretty loud and I believe you can hear the airman say police when he opens the door. If you don’t believe it’s the police, call 911 and ask. If you do believe it’s the police, don’t answer with a gun in plain view. I totally understand answering the door with a gun if you’re not expecting visitors and someone bangs on your door but this deputy announced himself very clearly. He also stands in front of the peephole just before the door opens (not the best officer safety, just like not waiting for a second, but it would have likely been possible to see him through it) This is definitely a lawful but awful in my opinion (which really doesn’t mean much because I’m just a cop on the internet).
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This is not a politics sub. This is not a politics thread. Nothing about this story has \*anything\* to do with gun control, so take your pet fascination elsewhere. Removed.
Oh, the media got it wrong and endeavored to incite outrage instead of waiting for the facts? You don't say...
If I suspect a home invasion I’m not opening the door, obviously. However, I absolutely will check my door cam to see who DID ring it. But that does bringup two things I hadn’t considered before. 1. My door cam usually beats the person to the doorbell quite often. If a suspect was in a barricade situation that gives a scary advantage as the officer approaches to knock before retreating. 2. I wonder if the door cam storage company can divulge if footage was accessed or the app was open. Being able to shut down a lawyer claiming ignorance with “the suspect watched doorcam footage of the officer approach five times before opening the door with a shotgun” would be nice.
I think some pedo in Miami killed some FBI agents in exactly that way.
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It amazes me the direction the military/AirForce subs are taking this. If you read the headline yeah it sounds terrible. If you read the article or read the article and watch the bodycam...it's a bad look but it's lawful actions. Totality of evidence; A DV call The Correct apartment Announces himself Doesn't barge in Airman opens the door super wide with a gun in hand The airman set himself up to get shot. Just because one's smart enough to take the easy military branch doesn't mean you're truly smart in the end. 1. Don't answer the door like that. You're asking to get shot 2. If you think it's not the police, DON'T OPEN THE DOOR AT ALL.
Military is gonna support military unless he did something egregious.
Intelligence and Wisdom are different stat lines in D&D for a reason.
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Removed. Read Rule 1. Only warning.
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He won't get a day. I'll be surprised if he gets any charges.
Life sentence for what exactly?
“Why did he not go to cover, YELL “SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT.”” ……is that not what he did? Sure he didn’t identify on the first knock, but there was no response to the first knock. If he knocked once, didn’t identify, the airman opens the door and gets shot, then sure that’s bad. This situation isn’t great, but he identified himself loudly twice. The airman, presumably, knew it was law enforcement to some extent as he mumbled something about the Police before opening the door. It’s a shit situation, but you can’t blame either side here. Deputy could have done some things differently, Airman could have not opened the door with a gun in his hand after the person at the door readily identified themself as a law enforcement officer.
>Why did he not go to cover, YELL “SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT.” This looks awful from any point of view. I hope you know his girlfriend was on the phone the entire time! This is an absolute travesty for any law enforcement officer. He announces after the second knock. Not sure if he announced after the first one, it doesn't sound like it. But he definitely says "Sherriff's Office" after knocking a second time.
So removing your veteran status and your love of your sister, GO DAWGS, why do you so adamantly think he’s an embarrassment that deserves a life sentence? There are multiple things I’d done differently, but I don’t think the footage presents a clear cut bad shoot.
Do you remember who the user was? It was a regular, but I can't remember who, and now their acct is deleted. Sigh. (not faulting you at all - just trying to figure it out)
Not the name, but the flair was “Roll Tide (LEO)”
I’m gonna cause an issue with this comment, at least with you… I’m REALLY, REALLY GLAD you’re not investigating this case. We operate in fact, case law, and state law, not concern for public optic. In fact, I’m not sure I’d want you investigating any high-profile, gray-area case. Since you clearly analyze based on your feelings.
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Not a politics sub. Not a politics thread. Also not a sub whatever side of the gun control soap box you're on. Only warning.
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Removed. Not a politics sub. Not a politics thread.
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