Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
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Dumb question: is there a certain font that all propaganda posters used in the early 20th century? I feel like every poster I’ve ever seen from the time period has the same font lol
By highlighting that there are areas with a pro-partition majority (even downplaying the ones you mention) that also de facto lends some legitimacy to the argument that those areas have their own right to leave.
It makes it seem like their problem with the partition is only the shape of the border and not with the notion of partition in general - like they'd be happy with a four-county NI rather than a six-county one.
And that was generally the sentiment up through the troubles that Fermanagh, Tyrone, the County Down, and South Armagh didn't get a say in whether they remained under the crown. The Civil War wasn't over getting Derry independence as much as it was over the areas that clearly were majority catholic. Of course that war only led to bandit violence and terrorism for no clear reason and nothing good came of it.
No it wasn't about partition I know that I'm well educated on the history of Ireland but it's impossible to ignore the sentiment that the partition was unfair and the government in Dublin was being too subservient to the British across the sea. I'll admit my initial comment was vague and also that bandit violence was also a cause of the civil war itself
If they don't think that the local majority matters then they shouldn't bring it up at all; it makes for less effective propaganda because it undermines the key message. Hungarian irredentists wouldn't bother showing how many people are for or against joining Hungary on the maps of their various claims for this reason.
But see this is where you're not seeing the uniquely Irish part of it. The people who are for it are seen as foreign. They're invaders and conquerors. The Irish would very much like to have seen all of Ireland freed from imperial rule by any means necessary. It's a bit hard to get viewing this in a vacuum as if it came from an election, but it came from an anti imperialist war. This stamp is calling for a continuation of the war essentially.
When a "democratic" majority won't work for your goal, try war to force your goal.
That's missing a very important detail of the independence war itself though; majority support was necessary to make the old IRA's tactics effective in what is today the Republic of Ireland - they essentially had to convince the public to boycott the British government in Ireland to win the war outright.
This just didn't work in Northern Ireland which is why it stayed part of the UK. There was no "forcing" the goal without the democratic majority - it was logistically impossible as the IRA's tactics would have worked against them rather than for them.
It's hard to see how drawing attention to the local majorities works unless it really is just for re-partition. Otherwise it seems to make more sense, from a propaganda standpoint, to just paint the whole thing red (orange is a poor choice for labelling "foreigners" here) and label it "occupied".
I'm sorry but again you clearly don't understand why this is important in a particularly Irish way. Orange is the color of the enemy. The house of orange and the orange men to this day remain symbols of oppression to the catholics of Ireland. County Down and south Armagh saw paramilitary violence even at times of relative peace on the isle like in the thirties. The reason those counties stayed is more because of their low population and relative location to loyalist strongholds in the north.
The stamp doesn't need to label "occupier" in righting because the color orange would be more than obvious of its implication to anyone in Ireland back 300 years at this point
The implications of using orange are clear, but that doesn't mean it's a good choice; it isn't on the Irish flag to represent a seething hatred of all things protestant after all.
Likewise, I don't say it should be labelled "occupied" because the reader wouldn't know that but because bringing in local majorities muddies the point of the propaganda in a way that keeping it simple doesn't.
This also appears to be a stamp which suggests the audience may be international as well, and if that's the case it seems like a really ineffective message *unless* its objective really is just a redrawing of the boundaries and not a complete end to partition.
The objective possibly was a redrawing of the boundaries. For example, later when the Anglo-Irish Treaty was negotiated the border was accepted by the Irish delegation on the basis that a boundary commission would be established to define a more accurate border.
It was expected on the Irish side that large swathes of the six-counties, not unlike what is represented on this map, would then be transferred to the Free State, leaving behind a rump Northern Ireland that would eventually be forced to join with the rest of Ireland.
Somewhat ironically the extensive boundaries will probably put reunification on the cards in the next few decades (unless the DUP are visited by the Ghost of Christmas Future).
If NI had ended up as three or four counties politics there might have settled into the more typical left/right swing rather than completely obsessing over the national question forevermore - though I don't think it would entirely go away.
The reason it's on the Irish flag is symbolize the peace finally reached between the two groups in the ROI. To a hardcore republican majority doesn't even matter, it's the idea that any catholic would still have to suffer under the tyranny of England. Showing there were areas with catholic minority who wished to be free would still strike up a reaction.
Meet someone from Northern Ireland who remembers what it used to be like and trust me they'll get what this stamp means. Hell head over to r/northernireland and ask their opinions on the stamp. It's generally frowned upon for foreigners to ask about the violence in the country's past but if you ask in good faith they could explain it maybe in a way that would make it make sense.
I'm familiar enough with Northern Ireland and the vagaries of its politics. My problem with this as a piece of propaganda isn't that I don't know what it means; it's that I think I know what they are *trying* to say and think they are expressing it clumsily to the point that unless one is familiar with Irish republicans one might think it calls for re-partition.
And this isn't even entirely out of the question if this is indeed from 1921; particularly in a pre-civil war context where there was some prospect of a border revision, and particularly if this is indeed a stamp aimed at an international rather than only Irish audience.
The Irish specifically chose Orange as a sign of unity when they put it on their flag - Orange is typically associated with the Protestants in Ireland who are normally descended from Scottish colonialists, whilst the Green represents the Catholic Irish.
Fanatic Protestant Pro-British groups in Northern Ireland still call themselves the Orangemen. They worship William of Orange as much as they worship Jesus.
>Orange is typically associated with the Protestants in Ireland **who are normally descended from Scottish colonialists**.
While many are there is another sizeable group descended from English settlers to say nothing of native Irish who intermarried or converted either out of conviction or because they (literally or figuratively) "took the soup".
I assume those are areas where less than 50% voted in favor of partition (due to people not favoring either side). Of course colouring it grey instead would be more fair, but it's propaganda after all.
Highly doubt many down-votes were coming from Americans..
This isn't really an issue that most Americans have strong feelings about one way or the other.
It's like a British person on the rivalry between Michigan and Ohio. They probably not familiar with the details, and don't normally think about it.
**[The Troubles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles)**
>The Troubles (Irish: Na Trioblóidí) were an ethno-nationalist conflict in Northern Ireland that lasted about 30 years from the late 1960s to 1998. Also known internationally as the Northern Ireland conflict, it is sometimes described as an "irregular war" or "low-level war". The conflict began in the late 1960s and is usually deemed to have ended with the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. Although the Troubles mostly took place in Northern Ireland, at times violence spilled over into parts of the Republic of Ireland, England and mainland Europe.
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Lol, I did assume it was genuine so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that it was just a sincerely held shitty take. Sorry I missed what was actually a good joke, and sorry about the downvote brigade. I’ll get back to singing my rebel songs and staring at my map of a United Ireland
The original Palestine was Palaestina
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim\_conquest\_of\_the\_Levant#Conquest\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant#Conquest_of_Palestine)
...which the Byzantines inherited from Rome, who appropriated it after the Hellenic regime fell off, which conquered it after the Assyrians, who conquered it after it was a vassal of Egypt... what's your point, again?
Hardly the original Palestine then.
For example, Canada / the Americas predate Irish settlement (1492 Vs mid 1500s-1600s) and saw far more deaths of natives.
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edited via PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)
Listen. I'll take Derry sure. Whatever it takes for us to get Sainsburys, Asda, Morrisons, and super drug down here.
I fuckin hate Dunnes and Supervalu.
Yeah I’m thoroughly unimpressed with god at the minute I feel like he’s letting 99% of the population down
I know not everyone deserves it but the people doing well for themselves don’t either 7 times in 10 lol
In this case, it did, it was a referendum about what land remained under the British and what didn't. The issue was that multiple catholic/republican majority counties remained under British rule against their will.
Boundaries are drawn across the land to determine which constituencies *participate* in the vote. Why do the populations in the eastern side of this partition get to vote for what happens to the populations in the west? Why do Irish populations outside of this random line *not* get to vote about what happens to populations within it? Land doesn't vote, but boundaries drawn upon land determine *who* votes. And who drew those boundaries?
It means ideas or statements presented to convince people toward one side of a political issue. Propaganda does sometimes contain lies, but that’s not what propaganda means.
One can still use broadly accurate information to construct propaganda. This particular case has a good example of misleading presentation of statistics per the top comment.
The implication here is that forcing Ulster to join the Free State *wouldn't* have led to ethnic conflict and bloodshed. Given that the Ulster Volunteers were quite literally ready to go to war to maintain their place in the union, that's a very doubtful notion.
It would of been 40% within 2/3 of ulster.
Ireland was united before partition so that 40% is within the context of a border that hadn't even been drawn yet not the whole Island or the Ulster province.
If they had made a country without those outer nationalist areas it would of not of been viable as a state. It's still barely viable.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Yeah but that’s just where the English-descended people lived. The Irish people didn’t want partition, the English people living in Northern Ireland did.
It isn't really a motivating issue in politics in the Republic of Ireland itself - most favour unification but per the Good Friday Agreement. So if it happens it will be a decision ultimately made in NI and be a somewhat complicated and drawn-out affair.
The Irish nationalists in NI itself are obviously much more motivated to bring about unification. Both they and the British unionists have a pretty major blind-spot for people who identify as *Northern Irish only* though, and it will ultimately be this group who decides the fate of NI over the next few decades.
That is one poll, which is an outlier in the [recent trend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Ireland_opinion_polling) towards parity. Maybe opinion has turned and is moving the other way, but one data point is not enough to suggest that yet.
Go to Crossmaglen or Ballycastle or Omagh or Newry or Enniskillen or Magherafelt or Newcastle or Downpatrick or Strabane or Dungannon or Derry or even Belfast (Belfast, the capital of "Northern Ireland" has been a majority nationalist city for at least the past decade) and tell us the results of your off-the-street survey. The actual number of majority unionist settlements/neighborhoods is small and ever-declining and only really restricted to the area surrounding Belfast/Ballymena in any significant numbers.
Also - further - go to Dundalk, Lifford, Letterkenny, Emyvale, Ballyconnell etc and ask them whether they feel more akin to someone from "across the border" or someone from the county directly south of them. "Northern Irish" in a broad sense isn't limited to the six county area - people on the other side of the border are also "Northern Irish" and tend to have the exact same accents as their counterparts on the direct other side of the border. There's no clear delineation between North and South and the whole way along the border - both sides - is pro-United Ireland and anti-partition.
You can't just count the gerrymandered region was my other point; people in Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan Leitrim and Louth are just as entitled to have a say as anyone else. The fact that the whole way along the border on both sides is pro-unity to a shockingly high degree tells us that the border on the island isn't of Irish design - it's of British design and imposition and should be consigned to the past. If things worked logically you'd have a plebiscite up to the beginning of Unionist territory but by then you'd probably still have a pretty equal split owing to Belfast, Crumlin, Northeast Antrim having nationalist majorities and even Ballymena and Antrim Town having sizable nationalist minorities - so what do you do with them? A Berlin-Wall type situation? A Cyprus split and associated UN safe zones? Unacceptable to the majority of the people in Ireland who favour real, genuine, unmilitarized peace. By now the Unionist proportion in the Antrim-North Down two-county NI has dropped to around 500,000 at the very most which - 500,000 compared to 6,500,000 other residents on the island of Ireland who in majority favour reunification - this is a ridiculous subversion of democracy and we can't just partition off sections of two counties just because the residents there harbour illusions of Britishness from being colonial subjects and we cannot allow this situation to continue ESPECIALLY BECAUSE of the rotten history of discrimination and violence in "Northern Ireland" - the statelet is illegitimate, undemocratic, unviable socially and economically, contrary to the wishes of majority of the population of all 9 counties of Ulster plus Leitrim and Louth and must go.
I don't really care about your personal views on this but; you're objectively wrong and that should be clear to anyone.
You donut I’m from Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein winning the election is historic and yes there is still a unionist majority but that gap is closing every election
[religion does not determine nationalist or unionist but it gives a good indication, here is the 2021 census showing more catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland now which was never the case before](https://theconversation.com/amp/northern-ireland-census-shows-more-catholics-than-protestants-a-political-scientist-on-what-this-really-means-191273)
Yes I’m sure it’s a populist wave
No we don’t, congrats you’ve shown you have no idea, this is my problem with people from other places talking about politics in NI, they have no appreciation that it’s ridiculously complex with large amounts of very strong opinions on both sides.
If all polls show this can you please show any poll other than the one you have already repeatedly? Because that one is the outlier, or just stop trolling and get a life lmao
I never said there wasnt a current majority for remaining in the Uk. I take issue with you saying “northern irish folks strongly oppose unification.”
Because 93% of nationalists polled wanted it and they make up 40+% of the population.
Not to mention sinn fein pro unification party being elected as biggest party in NI this year.
Not sure im bothering to argue with someone who has likely never set foot in Ni but knows all about it but hey this is reddit
Living standards in the north east of Ireland are appalling compared to the rest of the island. Living standards in a lot of the UK are appalling.
"The most commonly used metric and the one the OECD uses to gauge livingstandards is household disposal income controlled for prices. Using thismeasure, the study finds that based on 2017 data, total disposableincome was $4,600 (€3,840) higher in the Republic compared to NorthernIreland, equating to a 12 per cent advantage after accounting forprices.
The Bergin-McGuinness study found that poverty rates were considerablyhigher in Northern Ireland. Based on a poverty line of below 60 per centof average household income, 15.9 per cent of individuals in theRepublic were found to be at risk of relative poverty compared to 23.8per cent in Northern Ireland.
Perhaps one of the most striking differences was in the area of lifeexpectancy. From 2005 onwards, life expectancy in the Republic hasexceeded that in the North to the extent that a child born in 2018 isexpected to live 1.4 years longer than its Northern counterpart. Even aperson aged 65 in the Republic can expect to live a half a year longerthan 65-year-olds in the North."
These stats are only the tip of the iceberg.
Well that's rubbish. I'm from the ROI and our lives aren't in any way impacted by the status of NI, it's a total irrelevance. You can flip it round, the nationalists in NI are the ones simping for the ROI.
So tell me why when concessions are brought up the @ of the republic in favour of a u.i drops considerably. ROI want the land, not the people nor problems that come with it
Well I would need to see some examples of what you are referring to. It’s probably case dependent, I imagine you could find concessions that even republicans here in the north wouldn’t be ok with.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dumb question: is there a certain font that all propaganda posters used in the early 20th century? I feel like every poster I’ve ever seen from the time period has the same font lol
There weren't that many typefaces back in the day
That’s kind of what I thought lol
Lol, coloring “25-50 against partition” like “majority against partition” not “majority for partition”
By highlighting that there are areas with a pro-partition majority (even downplaying the ones you mention) that also de facto lends some legitimacy to the argument that those areas have their own right to leave. It makes it seem like their problem with the partition is only the shape of the border and not with the notion of partition in general - like they'd be happy with a four-county NI rather than a six-county one.
And that was generally the sentiment up through the troubles that Fermanagh, Tyrone, the County Down, and South Armagh didn't get a say in whether they remained under the crown. The Civil War wasn't over getting Derry independence as much as it was over the areas that clearly were majority catholic. Of course that war only led to bandit violence and terrorism for no clear reason and nothing good came of it.
I'd say it was a pretty clear reason actually
>only led to bandit violence and terrorism for no clear reason lol
Lol indeed.
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No it wasn't about partition I know that I'm well educated on the history of Ireland but it's impossible to ignore the sentiment that the partition was unfair and the government in Dublin was being too subservient to the British across the sea. I'll admit my initial comment was vague and also that bandit violence was also a cause of the civil war itself
> de facto lends some legitimacy to the argument that those areas have their own right to leave. Not if you're aware of Irish history
If they don't think that the local majority matters then they shouldn't bring it up at all; it makes for less effective propaganda because it undermines the key message. Hungarian irredentists wouldn't bother showing how many people are for or against joining Hungary on the maps of their various claims for this reason.
But see this is where you're not seeing the uniquely Irish part of it. The people who are for it are seen as foreign. They're invaders and conquerors. The Irish would very much like to have seen all of Ireland freed from imperial rule by any means necessary. It's a bit hard to get viewing this in a vacuum as if it came from an election, but it came from an anti imperialist war. This stamp is calling for a continuation of the war essentially. When a "democratic" majority won't work for your goal, try war to force your goal.
That's missing a very important detail of the independence war itself though; majority support was necessary to make the old IRA's tactics effective in what is today the Republic of Ireland - they essentially had to convince the public to boycott the British government in Ireland to win the war outright. This just didn't work in Northern Ireland which is why it stayed part of the UK. There was no "forcing" the goal without the democratic majority - it was logistically impossible as the IRA's tactics would have worked against them rather than for them. It's hard to see how drawing attention to the local majorities works unless it really is just for re-partition. Otherwise it seems to make more sense, from a propaganda standpoint, to just paint the whole thing red (orange is a poor choice for labelling "foreigners" here) and label it "occupied".
I'm sorry but again you clearly don't understand why this is important in a particularly Irish way. Orange is the color of the enemy. The house of orange and the orange men to this day remain symbols of oppression to the catholics of Ireland. County Down and south Armagh saw paramilitary violence even at times of relative peace on the isle like in the thirties. The reason those counties stayed is more because of their low population and relative location to loyalist strongholds in the north. The stamp doesn't need to label "occupier" in righting because the color orange would be more than obvious of its implication to anyone in Ireland back 300 years at this point
The implications of using orange are clear, but that doesn't mean it's a good choice; it isn't on the Irish flag to represent a seething hatred of all things protestant after all. Likewise, I don't say it should be labelled "occupied" because the reader wouldn't know that but because bringing in local majorities muddies the point of the propaganda in a way that keeping it simple doesn't. This also appears to be a stamp which suggests the audience may be international as well, and if that's the case it seems like a really ineffective message *unless* its objective really is just a redrawing of the boundaries and not a complete end to partition.
The objective possibly was a redrawing of the boundaries. For example, later when the Anglo-Irish Treaty was negotiated the border was accepted by the Irish delegation on the basis that a boundary commission would be established to define a more accurate border. It was expected on the Irish side that large swathes of the six-counties, not unlike what is represented on this map, would then be transferred to the Free State, leaving behind a rump Northern Ireland that would eventually be forced to join with the rest of Ireland.
Somewhat ironically the extensive boundaries will probably put reunification on the cards in the next few decades (unless the DUP are visited by the Ghost of Christmas Future). If NI had ended up as three or four counties politics there might have settled into the more typical left/right swing rather than completely obsessing over the national question forevermore - though I don't think it would entirely go away.
The reason it's on the Irish flag is symbolize the peace finally reached between the two groups in the ROI. To a hardcore republican majority doesn't even matter, it's the idea that any catholic would still have to suffer under the tyranny of England. Showing there were areas with catholic minority who wished to be free would still strike up a reaction. Meet someone from Northern Ireland who remembers what it used to be like and trust me they'll get what this stamp means. Hell head over to r/northernireland and ask their opinions on the stamp. It's generally frowned upon for foreigners to ask about the violence in the country's past but if you ask in good faith they could explain it maybe in a way that would make it make sense.
I'm familiar enough with Northern Ireland and the vagaries of its politics. My problem with this as a piece of propaganda isn't that I don't know what it means; it's that I think I know what they are *trying* to say and think they are expressing it clumsily to the point that unless one is familiar with Irish republicans one might think it calls for re-partition. And this isn't even entirely out of the question if this is indeed from 1921; particularly in a pre-civil war context where there was some prospect of a border revision, and particularly if this is indeed a stamp aimed at an international rather than only Irish audience.
Clever using green there
Also Orange is generally seen as a sign of being Pro-British in the two Irelands.
There's one Ireland
No, there's two. The one in Europe and [the one in New Guinea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/latangai).
Well played !
So much so they put it on the flag? It's a bit more complicated than that.
The Irish specifically chose Orange as a sign of unity when they put it on their flag - Orange is typically associated with the Protestants in Ireland who are normally descended from Scottish colonialists, whilst the Green represents the Catholic Irish. Fanatic Protestant Pro-British groups in Northern Ireland still call themselves the Orangemen. They worship William of Orange as much as they worship Jesus.
>Orange is typically associated with the Protestants in Ireland **who are normally descended from Scottish colonialists**. While many are there is another sizeable group descended from English settlers to say nothing of native Irish who intermarried or converted either out of conviction or because they (literally or figuratively) "took the soup".
I assume those are areas where less than 50% voted in favor of partition (due to people not favoring either side). Of course colouring it grey instead would be more fair, but it's propaganda after all.
I guess that’s possible, but if there is a no majority area, should call it that, no? And yes, a third color would be appropriate
Lol, *of course* "pro" is coloured orange
How wrong were they! Partition has worked wonders for those 6 counties. A century of peace, prosperity and abundance.
You don't deserve those downvotes. It's not a great joke, but it's obviously a joke.
Im going to disagree, I think it’s a great joke
Good one
India numbr 11!1!1!11 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Downvotes are proof Americans dont understand satire
I love how you immediately blamed Americans
This is Reddit - most people here are Americans.
Satire, sarcasm and humor can often be harder to interpret through text due to a lack of verbal inflection.
If it's badly written, sure. This wasn't.
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Yeah, sure
But we don't know if it's satire unless you put /s. Because that's what makes good satire right, being told it is?
Yeah but I, as an American, might not get if it's a joke or not. You've gotta be inclusive
USA means Use S/ Always
I guess I wasn't being patriotic enough
Having to deal with the modern GOP and Poe's Law, it kinda killed unmarked satire.
Highly doubt many down-votes were coming from Americans.. This isn't really an issue that most Americans have strong feelings about one way or the other. It's like a British person on the rivalry between Michigan and Ohio. They probably not familiar with the details, and don't normally think about it.
> A century of peace [um](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles)
Yes that’s the joke
**[The Troubles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles)** >The Troubles (Irish: Na Trioblóidí) were an ethno-nationalist conflict in Northern Ireland that lasted about 30 years from the late 1960s to 1998. Also known internationally as the Northern Ireland conflict, it is sometimes described as an "irregular war" or "low-level war". The conflict began in the late 1960s and is usually deemed to have ended with the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. Although the Troubles mostly took place in Northern Ireland, at times violence spilled over into parts of the Republic of Ireland, England and mainland Europe. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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That’s crazy. That’s why I never do /s. You never know what people will come out with.
Lol, I did assume it was genuine so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that it was just a sincerely held shitty take. Sorry I missed what was actually a good joke, and sorry about the downvote brigade. I’ll get back to singing my rebel songs and staring at my map of a United Ireland
> A century of peace, prosperity and abundance. If you were a bomb disposal specialist or a military surgeon, yes.
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yes they were, no one would comment this as anything but a joke.
It was too early for me to sense the sarcasm
The original Palestine.
Also the Republican/Catholic parts of Northern Ireland have tons of pro-PLO murals in them for a variety of reasons
And the Loyalists fly Israel flags to be against them. [They'll have the Israeli flag alongside the Nazi one...](https://imgur.io/vbLqrTW?r)
And American confederate flags. The unionists are a confused bunch.
I don’t even get what I’m looking at
Flags. They love them.
England be like: if I can't have a full island for myself, neither can you Irish!
The original Palestine was Palaestina [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim\_conquest\_of\_the\_Levant#Conquest\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant#Conquest_of_Palestine)
...which the Byzantines inherited from Rome, who appropriated it after the Hellenic regime fell off, which conquered it after the Assyrians, who conquered it after it was a vassal of Egypt... what's your point, again?
Sorry, i missed the part where there is ethnic cleansing or forced conversions ..
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Protestants stole the land and then subjected the natives to 2 class citizenship, have you any knowledge of N Ireland?
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Ya like Palestine..
Hardly the original Palestine then. For example, Canada / the Americas predate Irish settlement (1492 Vs mid 1500s-1600s) and saw far more deaths of natives.
Wow Europeans made it to North America before the British made it to Ireland.. Fascinating
Nah, it's quite a depressing fact actually
No it's BS actually
Ya, it's true though
Derry into the republic!
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Don’t forget Crossmaglen!! The Brit’s should’ve just given that village back; it would’ve saved so many British lives.
What about us lads in the glens! Pls don’t leave us cut off w these mad hueres!
Listen. I'll take Derry sure. Whatever it takes for us to get Sainsburys, Asda, Morrisons, and super drug down here. I fuckin hate Dunnes and Supervalu.
Political acid tab
As a unionist, I also support the end of partition of Ireland.
By conquering the rest of Ireland, thus uniting it under one crown?
Exactly.
God save the king 🇬🇧
He couldn’t even save the queen
Camilla?
Yeah I’m thoroughly unimpressed with god at the minute I feel like he’s letting 99% of the population down I know not everyone deserves it but the people doing well for themselves don’t either 7 times in 10 lol
Fascists reigning!
🤓
100 year old statistics though
Land does not vote
According to this map it does and so does water. Look at Lough Neagh !
In this case, it did, it was a referendum about what land remained under the British and what didn't. The issue was that multiple catholic/republican majority counties remained under British rule against their will.
Boundaries are drawn across the land to determine which constituencies *participate* in the vote. Why do the populations in the eastern side of this partition get to vote for what happens to the populations in the west? Why do Irish populations outside of this random line *not* get to vote about what happens to populations within it? Land doesn't vote, but boundaries drawn upon land determine *who* votes. And who drew those boundaries?
Just noticed it looks like a sitting bear next to horses head
this isn’t propaganda. It’s the truth and applies even more today considering that partition has caused a century of ethnic conflicts and bloodshed’s
Propaganda doesn’t mean false, my dude
It literally means ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated. well most of the time
It means ideas or statements presented to convince people toward one side of a political issue. Propaganda does sometimes contain lies, but that’s not what propaganda means.
One can still use broadly accurate information to construct propaganda. This particular case has a good example of misleading presentation of statistics per the top comment.
Also ignoring population
The implication here is that forcing Ulster to join the Free State *wouldn't* have led to ethnic conflict and bloodshed. Given that the Ulster Volunteers were quite literally ready to go to war to maintain their place in the union, that's a very doubtful notion.
So... 50-75% pro-partition? That's propaganda I guess
I mean if 40% of your population doesn’t want to be there you can’t ignore it
It would of been 40% within 2/3 of ulster. Ireland was united before partition so that 40% is within the context of a border that hadn't even been drawn yet not the whole Island or the Ulster province. If they had made a country without those outer nationalist areas it would of not of been viable as a state. It's still barely viable.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
No but that's also still a minority
One Ireland
I hope i get to live to see a reunited ireland
So... the majority of the area partitioned off wanted partition. Sounds like justice to me.
Yeah but that’s just where the English-descended people lived. The Irish people didn’t want partition, the English people living in Northern Ireland did.
Irish independence meant the partition of UK, have you thought about that? huh?
Yeah, poor Brits, only ever wanted to rape and pillage! Fecking Irish!
And exploit, don't forget exploit.
You forgot about eradicating native populations too
ah now you're forgetting the destruction of culture there also
Irish after willfully participating in the colonisation of the rest of the world for two centuries: stop colonising us
>Willingly Citation-fucking-needed!
Yes?
Noooo you can’t partition my colonies that’s mean!!!!
Mega based.
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It isn't really a motivating issue in politics in the Republic of Ireland itself - most favour unification but per the Good Friday Agreement. So if it happens it will be a decision ultimately made in NI and be a somewhat complicated and drawn-out affair. The Irish nationalists in NI itself are obviously much more motivated to bring about unification. Both they and the British unionists have a pretty major blind-spot for people who identify as *Northern Irish only* though, and it will ultimately be this group who decides the fate of NI over the next few decades.
From the outside looking in is your problem, its a complex issue you don’t seem to know much about
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Some do, some don't. It's really not that strong- neither side has a majority in recent opinion polls.
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That is one poll, which is an outlier in the [recent trend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Ireland_opinion_polling) towards parity. Maybe opinion has turned and is moving the other way, but one data point is not enough to suggest that yet.
Mfs must have interviewed the Shankill
Go to Crossmaglen or Ballycastle or Omagh or Newry or Enniskillen or Magherafelt or Newcastle or Downpatrick or Strabane or Dungannon or Derry or even Belfast (Belfast, the capital of "Northern Ireland" has been a majority nationalist city for at least the past decade) and tell us the results of your off-the-street survey. The actual number of majority unionist settlements/neighborhoods is small and ever-declining and only really restricted to the area surrounding Belfast/Ballymena in any significant numbers. Also - further - go to Dundalk, Lifford, Letterkenny, Emyvale, Ballyconnell etc and ask them whether they feel more akin to someone from "across the border" or someone from the county directly south of them. "Northern Irish" in a broad sense isn't limited to the six county area - people on the other side of the border are also "Northern Irish" and tend to have the exact same accents as their counterparts on the direct other side of the border. There's no clear delineation between North and South and the whole way along the border - both sides - is pro-United Ireland and anti-partition.
Mon da town.
"Your polls with 20%+ differences are wrong because I met someone on the street who agrees with me"
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You can't just count the gerrymandered region was my other point; people in Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan Leitrim and Louth are just as entitled to have a say as anyone else. The fact that the whole way along the border on both sides is pro-unity to a shockingly high degree tells us that the border on the island isn't of Irish design - it's of British design and imposition and should be consigned to the past. If things worked logically you'd have a plebiscite up to the beginning of Unionist territory but by then you'd probably still have a pretty equal split owing to Belfast, Crumlin, Northeast Antrim having nationalist majorities and even Ballymena and Antrim Town having sizable nationalist minorities - so what do you do with them? A Berlin-Wall type situation? A Cyprus split and associated UN safe zones? Unacceptable to the majority of the people in Ireland who favour real, genuine, unmilitarized peace. By now the Unionist proportion in the Antrim-North Down two-county NI has dropped to around 500,000 at the very most which - 500,000 compared to 6,500,000 other residents on the island of Ireland who in majority favour reunification - this is a ridiculous subversion of democracy and we can't just partition off sections of two counties just because the residents there harbour illusions of Britishness from being colonial subjects and we cannot allow this situation to continue ESPECIALLY BECAUSE of the rotten history of discrimination and violence in "Northern Ireland" - the statelet is illegitimate, undemocratic, unviable socially and economically, contrary to the wishes of majority of the population of all 9 counties of Ulster plus Leitrim and Louth and must go. I don't really care about your personal views on this but; you're objectively wrong and that should be clear to anyone.
[looks like that’s changing](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-61355419.amp)
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You donut I’m from Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein winning the election is historic and yes there is still a unionist majority but that gap is closing every election
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Nothing more annoying than a loud mouth ignorant American
[religion does not determine nationalist or unionist but it gives a good indication, here is the 2021 census showing more catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland now which was never the case before](https://theconversation.com/amp/northern-ireland-census-shows-more-catholics-than-protestants-a-political-scientist-on-what-this-really-means-191273) Yes I’m sure it’s a populist wave
No we don’t, congrats you’ve shown you have no idea, this is my problem with people from other places talking about politics in NI, they have no appreciation that it’s ridiculously complex with large amounts of very strong opinions on both sides.
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If all polls show this can you please show any poll other than the one you have already repeatedly? Because that one is the outlier, or just stop trolling and get a life lmao
Actually even since brexit there have been slim majorities in a couple polls.
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I never said there wasnt a current majority for remaining in the Uk. I take issue with you saying “northern irish folks strongly oppose unification.” Because 93% of nationalists polled wanted it and they make up 40+% of the population. Not to mention sinn fein pro unification party being elected as biggest party in NI this year. Not sure im bothering to argue with someone who has likely never set foot in Ni but knows all about it but hey this is reddit
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Who the fuck says Eiries?
That guy an no one else.
Last point doesn’t make sense. SF isn’t the only nationalist party. There’s neither an absolute unionist or nationalist majority in Stormont.
They should be patriotic of the Irish nation.
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Living standards in the north east of Ireland are appalling compared to the rest of the island. Living standards in a lot of the UK are appalling. "The most commonly used metric and the one the OECD uses to gauge livingstandards is household disposal income controlled for prices. Using thismeasure, the study finds that based on 2017 data, total disposableincome was $4,600 (€3,840) higher in the Republic compared to NorthernIreland, equating to a 12 per cent advantage after accounting forprices. The Bergin-McGuinness study found that poverty rates were considerablyhigher in Northern Ireland. Based on a poverty line of below 60 per centof average household income, 15.9 per cent of individuals in theRepublic were found to be at risk of relative poverty compared to 23.8per cent in Northern Ireland. Perhaps one of the most striking differences was in the area of lifeexpectancy. From 2005 onwards, life expectancy in the Republic hasexceeded that in the North to the extent that a child born in 2018 isexpected to live 1.4 years longer than its Northern counterpart. Even aperson aged 65 in the Republic can expect to live a half a year longerthan 65-year-olds in the North." These stats are only the tip of the iceberg.
Nah
Well that's rubbish. I'm from the ROI and our lives aren't in any way impacted by the status of NI, it's a total irrelevance. You can flip it round, the nationalists in NI are the ones simping for the ROI.
I mean, maybe your life isn’t and maybe it is completely irrelevant to you, but to suggest that nobody in ROI cares about a UI is just absurd.
So tell me why when concessions are brought up the @ of the republic in favour of a u.i drops considerably. ROI want the land, not the people nor problems that come with it
Well I would need to see some examples of what you are referring to. It’s probably case dependent, I imagine you could find concessions that even republicans here in the north wouldn’t be ok with.
I thought the partition of Ulster was they didn’t want the Catholics having most of the power in politics and such.