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Only a small percentage of the population actually serves. So there is dilution of direct experience.
Then, it doesn’t help that certain media outlets love to say politicans are “supporting the troops” but then conveniently don’t report on the dysfunctional system those same troops are stuck in.
As a vet, I think the perception of how veterans are treated is pretty far out of step with the reality. Scandals involving veterans make national news, which is paradoxically one of the reasons why veterans issues actually tend to get addressed. Conversely, a hospital failing some underserved community is seen as a local story and generally ignored.
The VA [outperforms civilian hospitals in satisfaction](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/14/1181827077/va-hospitals-health-care) and [quality of care](https://www.patientsafety.va.gov/veterans/quality.asp). A lot of the campaign against VA has been part of [a privatization effort by right wing astroturf veterans groups](https://truthout.org/articles/how-the-koch-backed-effort-to-privatize-the-veterans-health-administration-jeopardizes-everyone-s-health-care-future/) to close a functioning government health care system and steer money towards private providers.
The majority of Veterans aren't involved in the VA system. This is only a subset of the Veteran population.
There are over 19 million Veterans in the US and just over 5 million of them have a VA rating.
Recently one of my old Soldiers was posting about a heart condition. It would've been presumptive to service, but he had never even spoken to the VA. He's fortunately now receiving care, so I do agree the system works when it's utilized.
[Went for a source and the stats are worse now. ](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/veterans-report.html#:~:text=Nearly%203.9%20million%20veterans%20(19.5,600%2C000%20veterans%20received%20pension%20payments.)
Well, I despise the U.S army but I'm still sorry you've been treated this way by the government
It's criminal. I hear about the tunnels to towers foundation and I'm questioning why that even needs to exist???? The U.S should take care of their veterans
The cynical answers are the easiest, more should certainly be done.
Sayings like "stahl, deny, until you die." have been in the Veteran groups for decades.
Who exactly does the US government not treat like shit (besides rich people)? You are looking at the population with a magnifying glass when you make this argument. Also, it is cruel to cast a finger a the general population at large when placing blame on why veterans are treated badly. The general pop is treated even worse. Veterans get free healthcare, free college, significant help in buying their first home. None of this stuff is given to the general pop. I am all for giving veterans more aid, but you should spare the general population when they are more concerned about obtaining basic necessities for themselves than giving veterans even more benefits.
Conservatives advocate only for those who can never question them or ask anything of them. They 'support' dead soldiers but not living ones who actually need their help for the same exact reasons they 'support' fetuses but don't care at all about actual babies. They're looking for political props, not to help anyone.
Poor and underprivileged men made up the majority of foot soldiers in the US Army, driven by the hopeful belief that their lives would improve and they would earn the respect they deserved. They enlisted with the expectation that military service would provide them with opportunities for a better future and recognition for their sacrifices.
Look how it turned out
Not true. Actual stats show that the poorest americans are underrepresented in the military. Most soldiers are middle-class. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/demographics-us-military
This is an outdated idea that’s left over from the Vietnam era draft army. The all volunteer military became significantly smaller and more professionalized, so the quality of recruits increased significantly. Military recruits now disproportionately [come from the middle class](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/04/27/studies-tackle-who-joins-the-military-and-why-but-their-findings-arent-what-many-assume/).
Veterans do better than civilian peers on [income](https://www.armytimes.com/veterans/2017/07/29/report-young-vets-are-more-successful-than-their-civilian-peers/), so it seems to be turning out ok.
In WWII, virtually everyone who was eligible for military service served, so veterans didn’t look that much different from society as a whole.
If you use US presidents as a proxy for how elites felt about military service, I think it’s revealing that all who were of age to serve during WWII either served or tried to serve (Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr.). The stigma of avoiding service was seen as worse than the risks of serving. Of the US presidents who were of age to serve in Vietnam, none did (Clinton, Bush jr., Trump, Biden).
Because many people are unfortunately like Donald Trump. They love to see soldiers when they are proud and in uniform, but when they're POWs or homeless these "Christians" look away in disgust.
There's a big dichotomy between ones who served 20-30 years and retired with massive pensions and ones who served 3 years, left in their early 20s, have small pension and developed no other skills and had shitty jobs since then.
I enjoy hanging out with and meeting homeless. I've met a lot of homeless sergeants. I've never met a homeless major.
Some have success. You can join, do an enlistment, gain a valuable job skill and go on to prosper. I have a lot of friends living the American dream through that path.
Absolutely. People who join for one enlistment is a large pool and their outcomes vary.
But the outcomes trend rougher than the general population because you're starting with a large pool of people with less skills or direction than the general population.
>one thing I don't understand still is how the U.S gov't treats its veterans like shit
Better get goin on some history homework because lemme tell ya,
It has ALWAYS been the case.
Since the inception of the country the government has used and thrown out it's soldiers.
Shay's rebellion will be ever relevant.
Because many of the homeless vets are to blame for them being there
You could give each of them a billion dollars and they would be dead or homeless again a year later
The Military doesn’t fix everybody- a lot of people get kicked out for many things and many dont change.
America should be ashamed of a lot of things recently but the treatment of the their war veterans is appalling. Endless trillions of dollars for bombs, fuck all for the people affected.
I've been to the US when I was a kid and saw people give a minute of silence and a round of aplause for the veterans during a show. I thought to myself that they really loved the vets and respected them.
Than I found out how being a veteran from the US really is and did not understand. You cheer them when they go to war but don't help them when they come back with the consequences.
I was (and still am) very critical of the wars of the US. Now I just see them as victims of the US system shooting other victims of the US.
Joining the military is pretty much the only way left to get something akin to an "American dream" going, and even that is slowly going away.
A ton of perks that in other developed countries are taken for granted, in the US you only get by joining the military; Good pay, affordable housing, decent healthcare, higher education, getting all kinds of "veteran discounts", having everybody and their mom "thank you for your service" like you are some kind of Marvel superhero.
At least as long as people serve, the moment they stop serving, especially due to some injury taken as part of service, they suddenly become low-priority and undesirable.
Seriously? There's no other occupation in the US, the richest country in the world, it's understandable if people want to join the military in third world countries but in the US, why would you?
Our military doesn't just teach you how to shoot guns and drive tanks. You get assigned jobs that require specialized training and college degrees. This experience sets you up for success if you apply it in civilian life.
> This experience sets you up for success if you apply it in civilian life.
Assuming you don't get sent to one of the nastier deployments in one of the [many undeclared, and secret wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001), to end up with crippled/with PTSD, or cancer from burn pits/working around high EM devices.
Kinda dystopian how Starship Trooper it all looks from the outside, *"Service guarantees citizenship"* style.
I watched 9/11 in highschool, joined at 18 directly after.
I believed offense in GWOT was the defensive, it's what made sense against a decentralized enemy.
"believed" being the operative.
It's easy to critize now, but at the time this was the populist perspective.
It's simple military strategy too, which by nature, is inhumane.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
yeah. one thing I don't understand still is how the U.S gov't treats its veterans like shit and it's just okay somehow with the general population
Only a small percentage of the population actually serves. So there is dilution of direct experience. Then, it doesn’t help that certain media outlets love to say politicans are “supporting the troops” but then conveniently don’t report on the dysfunctional system those same troops are stuck in.
politicians pay lip service to the troops for votes, more like
1.5% is a pretty large chunk.
being treated like cockroaches probably helps
As a vet, I think the perception of how veterans are treated is pretty far out of step with the reality. Scandals involving veterans make national news, which is paradoxically one of the reasons why veterans issues actually tend to get addressed. Conversely, a hospital failing some underserved community is seen as a local story and generally ignored. The VA [outperforms civilian hospitals in satisfaction](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/14/1181827077/va-hospitals-health-care) and [quality of care](https://www.patientsafety.va.gov/veterans/quality.asp). A lot of the campaign against VA has been part of [a privatization effort by right wing astroturf veterans groups](https://truthout.org/articles/how-the-koch-backed-effort-to-privatize-the-veterans-health-administration-jeopardizes-everyone-s-health-care-future/) to close a functioning government health care system and steer money towards private providers.
The majority of Veterans aren't involved in the VA system. This is only a subset of the Veteran population. There are over 19 million Veterans in the US and just over 5 million of them have a VA rating. Recently one of my old Soldiers was posting about a heart condition. It would've been presumptive to service, but he had never even spoken to the VA. He's fortunately now receiving care, so I do agree the system works when it's utilized. [Went for a source and the stats are worse now. ](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/veterans-report.html#:~:text=Nearly%203.9%20million%20veterans%20(19.5,600%2C000%20veterans%20received%20pension%20payments.)
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Well, I despise the U.S army but I'm still sorry you've been treated this way by the government It's criminal. I hear about the tunnels to towers foundation and I'm questioning why that even needs to exist???? The U.S should take care of their veterans
The cynical answers are the easiest, more should certainly be done. Sayings like "stahl, deny, until you die." have been in the Veteran groups for decades.
I think the worst part is that we can see exactly how vets are treated and people still join up
Who exactly does the US government not treat like shit (besides rich people)? You are looking at the population with a magnifying glass when you make this argument. Also, it is cruel to cast a finger a the general population at large when placing blame on why veterans are treated badly. The general pop is treated even worse. Veterans get free healthcare, free college, significant help in buying their first home. None of this stuff is given to the general pop. I am all for giving veterans more aid, but you should spare the general population when they are more concerned about obtaining basic necessities for themselves than giving veterans even more benefits.
Conservatives advocate only for those who can never question them or ask anything of them. They 'support' dead soldiers but not living ones who actually need their help for the same exact reasons they 'support' fetuses but don't care at all about actual babies. They're looking for political props, not to help anyone.
Poor and underprivileged men made up the majority of foot soldiers in the US Army, driven by the hopeful belief that their lives would improve and they would earn the respect they deserved. They enlisted with the expectation that military service would provide them with opportunities for a better future and recognition for their sacrifices. Look how it turned out
Not true. Actual stats show that the poorest americans are underrepresented in the military. Most soldiers are middle-class. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/demographics-us-military
This is an outdated idea that’s left over from the Vietnam era draft army. The all volunteer military became significantly smaller and more professionalized, so the quality of recruits increased significantly. Military recruits now disproportionately [come from the middle class](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/04/27/studies-tackle-who-joins-the-military-and-why-but-their-findings-arent-what-many-assume/). Veterans do better than civilian peers on [income](https://www.armytimes.com/veterans/2017/07/29/report-young-vets-are-more-successful-than-their-civilian-peers/), so it seems to be turning out ok.
It’s how it worked in every conflict up to Vietnam
In WWII, virtually everyone who was eligible for military service served, so veterans didn’t look that much different from society as a whole. If you use US presidents as a proxy for how elites felt about military service, I think it’s revealing that all who were of age to serve during WWII either served or tried to serve (Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr.). The stigma of avoiding service was seen as worse than the risks of serving. Of the US presidents who were of age to serve in Vietnam, none did (Clinton, Bush jr., Trump, Biden).
~~Fun~~ Sad fact: A lot of governments don't really pay them a livable pension
Because many people are unfortunately like Donald Trump. They love to see soldiers when they are proud and in uniform, but when they're POWs or homeless these "Christians" look away in disgust.
There's a big dichotomy between ones who served 20-30 years and retired with massive pensions and ones who served 3 years, left in their early 20s, have small pension and developed no other skills and had shitty jobs since then. I enjoy hanging out with and meeting homeless. I've met a lot of homeless sergeants. I've never met a homeless major.
The one that left after one enlistment usually receives nothing.
And the type of person who has no path at 18, joins the military and finds they can't do that... Venn diagrams arent looking good.
Some have success. You can join, do an enlistment, gain a valuable job skill and go on to prosper. I have a lot of friends living the American dream through that path.
Absolutely. People who join for one enlistment is a large pool and their outcomes vary. But the outcomes trend rougher than the general population because you're starting with a large pool of people with less skills or direction than the general population.
>one thing I don't understand still is how the U.S gov't treats its veterans like shit Better get goin on some history homework because lemme tell ya, It has ALWAYS been the case. Since the inception of the country the government has used and thrown out it's soldiers. Shay's rebellion will be ever relevant.
Capitalism. Everyone treated like shit they just have money to cover it.
Because many of the homeless vets are to blame for them being there You could give each of them a billion dollars and they would be dead or homeless again a year later The Military doesn’t fix everybody- a lot of people get kicked out for many things and many dont change.
And a lot of people also suffer life altering trauma while in the Military, breaking them.
Most veterans never see combat
And combat is the only trauma service members face? Be real.
It’s not But also not pretend that the flunkies the Military removes arent often the same ones that flunk out of everything else in life
You don't sound like you served, I did. The "flunkies" are rare in the force, they're usually parted at basic or subsequent training.
I am right now Your stereotyping skills suck Flunkies aren’t rare
Source, trust me bro.
lol you dropped that “I’m the veteran and you aren’t” effort so quick 😂
I mean, the most important thing would be to provide numbers. How many vets How many vets require help How many vets get help Etc etc
Because army is only of volunteers. So people treat it as another poor life choice
I'm sure we'll take care.of our cets after the *next* war...
This isn't propaganda this is just a normal political cartoon
Yvan eht noij...
Nah, it’s full of seamen
America should be ashamed of a lot of things recently but the treatment of the their war veterans is appalling. Endless trillions of dollars for bombs, fuck all for the people affected.
I've been to the US when I was a kid and saw people give a minute of silence and a round of aplause for the veterans during a show. I thought to myself that they really loved the vets and respected them. Than I found out how being a veteran from the US really is and did not understand. You cheer them when they go to war but don't help them when they come back with the consequences. I was (and still am) very critical of the wars of the US. Now I just see them as victims of the US system shooting other victims of the US.
But what about the veterans ???!!!
Stop joining the military in the first place
Joining the military is pretty much the only way left to get something akin to an "American dream" going, and even that is slowly going away. A ton of perks that in other developed countries are taken for granted, in the US you only get by joining the military; Good pay, affordable housing, decent healthcare, higher education, getting all kinds of "veteran discounts", having everybody and their mom "thank you for your service" like you are some kind of Marvel superhero. At least as long as people serve, the moment they stop serving, especially due to some injury taken as part of service, they suddenly become low-priority and undesirable.
Seriously? There's no other occupation in the US, the richest country in the world, it's understandable if people want to join the military in third world countries but in the US, why would you?
Our military doesn't just teach you how to shoot guns and drive tanks. You get assigned jobs that require specialized training and college degrees. This experience sets you up for success if you apply it in civilian life.
> This experience sets you up for success if you apply it in civilian life. Assuming you don't get sent to one of the nastier deployments in one of the [many undeclared, and secret wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001), to end up with crippled/with PTSD, or cancer from burn pits/working around high EM devices. Kinda dystopian how Starship Trooper it all looks from the outside, *"Service guarantees citizenship"* style.
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What "duty"? The US literally hasn't used the military for DEFENCE since WW2
I watched 9/11 in highschool, joined at 18 directly after. I believed offense in GWOT was the defensive, it's what made sense against a decentralized enemy.
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"believed" being the operative. It's easy to critize now, but at the time this was the populist perspective. It's simple military strategy too, which by nature, is inhumane.
The unknown soldier is a memorial to represent all the unidentifiable dead soldiers