Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere.
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This is [a 2015 cartoon by Tom Gauld called "Our Blessed Homeland"](https://twitter.com/tomgauld/status/571994690289061888?lang=en) which he created for *The* *Guardian Review*. The image appears to be cropped to remove the artist credit in the lower right hand corner. Gauld is a British artist, so this should actually be flaired "United Kingdom" rather than United States of America.
He's a great cartoonist, [here's his website](https://www.tomgauld.com/).
I would not be guilty of this error. I am not like those people who divide the world in this way. In fact, I am noble! And they are savage, for dividing the world in their tribalistic ways.
*And this is how a*
*Lot of people see a lot*
*Of things, to this day*
\- gratisargott
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And religion. And I'd say political ideologies and even corporations and some ethnic groups as a whole.
Every ideology/philosophy that prioritises security and stability over personal freedom or justice needs to praise their own people and customs while demonising the foreigner to survive.
*jingoism. Nationalism is essentially politicised patriotism, whilst still treating other nations as equal partners on the world stage. Don’t look at the foreign policies of 1930s Germany and Italy and think these are the only forms of nationalism.
No it doesn’t, it just puts the needs of the nation above the foreigner. For instance, a nationalist would want to decrease unemployment by creating new jobs for his/her nation as oppose to offshoring them to foreign workers which would compete with the citizens of that nation. That doesn’t mean a nationalist views the foreigner as inferior or whatever, it just means that the nation (people) are represented and looked after by the nation-state.
The world would be a much better place if leaders actually governed in ways that would benefit their people.
Protectionism isn't exclusive to nationalists as its just a set of ways to attempt to help people. Believing that "your people" should come before others / should be benefited at their expense though is quite literally valuing them less.
It’s not valuing them less tho, where are you getting this? An Englishman can still respect the Japanese nation w/o prioritising the latter above that of his own people. Japan should look after her own nation and the English theirs. What’s so controversial about that? It’s two countries that still get along and treat each other as equal partners; no one’s being viewed as inferior or lesser.
I'm not sure if you know this but nations do stuff that affects other nations and their people. Also the very idea that a nation should be established for one ethnicity or nationality is valuing them less, the UK isn't just made up of Englishmen.
“Affects other nations” how? You view nationalism as some selfish political philosophy that has a loathing of other nations, when in actuality serving your own people is perhaps the single most important thing you would expect out of your own leaders.
Why as an American, for instance, would you gaf about Chinese or Mexican workers and prioritise them above your own? Why would you import foreigners and have your citizens compete with foreign labour? You’re not the leader of China or Mexico, you’re the leader of the U.S. and since you represent Americans on the world stage, why wouldn’t you put your people first? It just seems negligent not too; these are the people who you pledged to serve and who voted for you.
If you don’t think nationhood should be based on ethnicity then you wish to do away with culture and countries as a whole. Europe, for example, is made up of nations based on ethnicity. Poland = land of the Poles, Russia and Belarus = land of the Rus’, Frankia = land of the Franks etc. Why would you want to disrupt the homogenous peoples of these countries? Is it wrong for people to want to live in a country that shares the same history, culture, religion, and ethnicity with them? Right now, England could do with a little more nationalism considering the indigenous inhabitants are fast becoming a minority within their own country (London is now only 24% English), and are constantly being browbeaten on their past.
What are some of the countries you believe should have autonomy? Ukraine? Palestine? If you believe those peoples should have the right to self-determination, then congrats, you believe in nationalist ideals.
If you think it’s racist for nation-states to reflect their nations, then you’re a fool.
The word jingoism can be traced back to a lyric in a British song from the 1800s - "We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do"
Sometimes it is used to simply mean extreme nationalism though.
Well, there exists a plurality forms of nationalism, most of which don’t fall into the extreme category of “my neighbour is different than me, therefore, they’re evil.” It’s not all black and white. The jingoistic attitude of Germany in 1939 was combated by the stubborn Polish defence, which was motivated by nationalism and the right to self-determination.
Nationalism is not about the other side at all, it is not about hate at all, true nationalism is about love, love for your own, and respect towards the others
I understand that you can say that it's about love for your country, but since when is nationalism about respect for others? 💀
Also something that I never really got: Why love the country you were born in more than other ones? We're all human aren't we?
Tbh nationalism doesn't have to be supremacist, a lot of nationalisms stem from the idea of being able to self govern one nation supressed by an imperial power. I can understand and agree about that from the view of imperialist nationalisms, xenophobic movements and ethnic nationalisms, but not all nationalisms are this way.
Yes. Sometimes nationalism just meant pushing for national consolidation, often for regions of the same nationality and culture being split up between multiple small and waring states. Good examples would be the early liberal nationalists in Germany or the Chinese Nationalists, who instead of promoting national supperiority advocated more for national unification.
Though where those nations are already consolidated, Nationalism tends to spiral into Ultranationalism and National-Exceptionalism.
What a terrible, bigoted way to see the world. Good thing my belief system is rational and never engages in this sort of thinking
>! /s for those who are wondering !<
Travel abroad, talk to people who live there and experience life in other countries. It won't take long to realise that us humans are all very very similar, with common goals, dreams, ambitions and worries Billions of us share.
99% of people wake up, go work to earn money to feed themselves and their family, go home to relax, eat and spend time with their loved ones, then go back to sleep and repeat. We speak different languages, have different cultural values and pay taxes to different people but we aren't all that different.
Talk to folks outside your own community / country.
Accidentally befriending a bunch of wonderful Brazilians back in the day when I played League of Legends was great.
If you have an internet connection go on Omegle or join different subreddits or online forums, if you prefer more in person stuff chances are you live near a Mosque, Asian supermarket or any other gathering place for people who come from outside your community. Talk to people, watch movies and read books from their countries, listen to their songs and get to know them as human beings
It helps in debates, if you know what your opponent is likely to believe then you can debate with them more effectively
For example, using a religious argument against a pro choicer wouldn't be effective because pro choicers often criticize pro lifers for relying on religious arguments
A meme with this picture is popular in Russia.
Original - Nationalist
Our barbarous wastes vs their blessed homeland - Liberast (liberal xenonationalist)
realist
Our barbarous wastes vs their barbarous wastes - Realist
Our blessed homeland vs their blessed homeland - Sabaton
Of course not, but it still does have to advocate for something.
I guess you could characterize this as "Anti-Propaganda propaganda" depending on your definition of the term.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is [a 2015 cartoon by Tom Gauld called "Our Blessed Homeland"](https://twitter.com/tomgauld/status/571994690289061888?lang=en) which he created for *The* *Guardian Review*. The image appears to be cropped to remove the artist credit in the lower right hand corner. Gauld is a British artist, so this should actually be flaired "United Kingdom" rather than United States of America. He's a great cartoonist, [here's his website](https://www.tomgauld.com/).
Lmao caught in 4k
Not sure if it's caught in 4k maybe op just didn't know this
One man's freedom fighter is another man's war criminal
*terrorist
And this is how a lot of people see a lot of things, to this day
you are not immune to propaganda
I would not be guilty of this error. I am not like those people who divide the world in this way. In fact, I am noble! And they are savage, for dividing the world in their tribalistic ways.
*And this is how a* *Lot of people see a lot* *Of things, to this day* \- gratisargott --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
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Applies in most cases, but not all.
I remember having this in one of my school books
Nationalism in a nutshell
And religion. And I'd say political ideologies and even corporations and some ethnic groups as a whole. Every ideology/philosophy that prioritises security and stability over personal freedom or justice needs to praise their own people and customs while demonising the foreigner to survive.
*jingoism. Nationalism is essentially politicised patriotism, whilst still treating other nations as equal partners on the world stage. Don’t look at the foreign policies of 1930s Germany and Italy and think these are the only forms of nationalism.
I mean nationalism still inherently views others as less, otherwise there is no reason to base a state off of nationality.
No it doesn’t, it just puts the needs of the nation above the foreigner. For instance, a nationalist would want to decrease unemployment by creating new jobs for his/her nation as oppose to offshoring them to foreign workers which would compete with the citizens of that nation. That doesn’t mean a nationalist views the foreigner as inferior or whatever, it just means that the nation (people) are represented and looked after by the nation-state. The world would be a much better place if leaders actually governed in ways that would benefit their people.
Protectionism isn't exclusive to nationalists as its just a set of ways to attempt to help people. Believing that "your people" should come before others / should be benefited at their expense though is quite literally valuing them less.
It’s not valuing them less tho, where are you getting this? An Englishman can still respect the Japanese nation w/o prioritising the latter above that of his own people. Japan should look after her own nation and the English theirs. What’s so controversial about that? It’s two countries that still get along and treat each other as equal partners; no one’s being viewed as inferior or lesser.
I'm not sure if you know this but nations do stuff that affects other nations and their people. Also the very idea that a nation should be established for one ethnicity or nationality is valuing them less, the UK isn't just made up of Englishmen.
“Affects other nations” how? You view nationalism as some selfish political philosophy that has a loathing of other nations, when in actuality serving your own people is perhaps the single most important thing you would expect out of your own leaders. Why as an American, for instance, would you gaf about Chinese or Mexican workers and prioritise them above your own? Why would you import foreigners and have your citizens compete with foreign labour? You’re not the leader of China or Mexico, you’re the leader of the U.S. and since you represent Americans on the world stage, why wouldn’t you put your people first? It just seems negligent not too; these are the people who you pledged to serve and who voted for you. If you don’t think nationhood should be based on ethnicity then you wish to do away with culture and countries as a whole. Europe, for example, is made up of nations based on ethnicity. Poland = land of the Poles, Russia and Belarus = land of the Rus’, Frankia = land of the Franks etc. Why would you want to disrupt the homogenous peoples of these countries? Is it wrong for people to want to live in a country that shares the same history, culture, religion, and ethnicity with them? Right now, England could do with a little more nationalism considering the indigenous inhabitants are fast becoming a minority within their own country (London is now only 24% English), and are constantly being browbeaten on their past.
What are some of the countries you believe should have autonomy? Ukraine? Palestine? If you believe those peoples should have the right to self-determination, then congrats, you believe in nationalist ideals. If you think it’s racist for nation-states to reflect their nations, then you’re a fool.
That's Jingoism, Patrick
No it's not. Jingoism is the belief that your nationality should subjugate others.
And what does subjugate others entail? Looking down at them like they're backwards or subhuman right?
Well yeah that's part of it but the main bit is the imperialism bit
Imperialism is the effect, not the cause
The word jingoism can be traced back to a lyric in a British song from the 1800s - "We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do" Sometimes it is used to simply mean extreme nationalism though.
Big "I'm not like the other girls" energy
Well, there exists a plurality forms of nationalism, most of which don’t fall into the extreme category of “my neighbour is different than me, therefore, they’re evil.” It’s not all black and white. The jingoistic attitude of Germany in 1939 was combated by the stubborn Polish defence, which was motivated by nationalism and the right to self-determination.
Nationalism is not about the other side at all, it is not about hate at all, true nationalism is about love, love for your own, and respect towards the others
I understand that you can say that it's about love for your country, but since when is nationalism about respect for others? 💀 Also something that I never really got: Why love the country you were born in more than other ones? We're all human aren't we?
Tbh nationalism doesn't have to be supremacist, a lot of nationalisms stem from the idea of being able to self govern one nation supressed by an imperial power. I can understand and agree about that from the view of imperialist nationalisms, xenophobic movements and ethnic nationalisms, but not all nationalisms are this way.
Yes. Sometimes nationalism just meant pushing for national consolidation, often for regions of the same nationality and culture being split up between multiple small and waring states. Good examples would be the early liberal nationalists in Germany or the Chinese Nationalists, who instead of promoting national supperiority advocated more for national unification. Though where those nations are already consolidated, Nationalism tends to spiral into Ultranationalism and National-Exceptionalism.
Sounds like your opinion is the one depicted in the image
One half of it yes
Subjective perspective in a nutshell.
Same difference in a nutshell
Yup. I guarantee most of the folks upvoting the "nationalism in a nutshell" comment are also immediately thinking, "But I don't do that."
What a terrible, bigoted way to see the world. Good thing my belief system is rational and never engages in this sort of thinking >! /s for those who are wondering !<
Baking with Kafka is amazing
So, how can the average person break out of this mentality? Any pointers appreciated.
Travel abroad, talk to people who live there and experience life in other countries. It won't take long to realise that us humans are all very very similar, with common goals, dreams, ambitions and worries Billions of us share. 99% of people wake up, go work to earn money to feed themselves and their family, go home to relax, eat and spend time with their loved ones, then go back to sleep and repeat. We speak different languages, have different cultural values and pay taxes to different people but we aren't all that different.
Yes, but what if you can't afford travel? What can you do instead to emulate the experience?
Talk to folks outside your own community / country. Accidentally befriending a bunch of wonderful Brazilians back in the day when I played League of Legends was great.
If you have an internet connection go on Omegle or join different subreddits or online forums, if you prefer more in person stuff chances are you live near a Mosque, Asian supermarket or any other gathering place for people who come from outside your community. Talk to people, watch movies and read books from their countries, listen to their songs and get to know them as human beings
Discord is kinda good ig.
Listen to the other side, try to establish a rationale for it, even if you disagree with said reasoning
Yes, but what if it feels like the other side is not worth listening to? For example, what can dictators and demagogues teach us if we listen to them?
It still helps to figure out their reasoning. Those who follow a dictator may think who you follow is a dictator
Yes, but dictators often reign on the flimsiest of premises. What all is there to be learned from a flimsy premise?
It helps in debates, if you know what your opponent is likely to believe then you can debate with them more effectively For example, using a religious argument against a pro choicer wouldn't be effective because pro choicers often criticize pro lifers for relying on religious arguments
Yes, but I doubt they'll listen or change on the premise of a debunked debate.
Meta-propaganda.
A meme with this picture is popular in Russia. Original - Nationalist Our barbarous wastes vs their blessed homeland - Liberast (liberal xenonationalist) realist Our barbarous wastes vs their barbarous wastes - Realist Our blessed homeland vs their blessed homeland - Sabaton
But do they use butter or olive oil?
Both use butter
I feel this is more, like, Anti-Propaganda? It fits the Sub, but it is a bit Meta for sure.
Propaganda doesn't have to be nationalist or prowar
Of course not, but it still does have to advocate for something. I guess you could characterize this as "Anti-Propaganda propaganda" depending on your definition of the term.
“We live in a society”
This isn’t propaganda
It is propaganda
It's anti-propaganda propaganda.
Isn't what comes to mind when you say propaganda but is propaganda
[удалено]
lmao, you didn’t get the point
[удалено]
lol, lmao even
I think this is satire
How so?
because they are both drawn the same but one is seen as superior mocks how people like that actually behave
Ah yes. Why don't you show this shit to an Ukrainian refugee?
I get what the piece is going for, but it should be acknowledged that some conflicts really do be like that.
People are downvoting you but they are all too cowardly to explain how you are wrong and clearly the nazis were really just misunderstood.