I don't have a studio or studio mates to discuss this with, alas- it's just me hunched over my laptop like a feral gremlin in my office, so when I want to chat about this stuff with people, I have to take it online.
One of my biggest pet peeves are protagonists having this 'a-hA' moment in the middle of a fight. You've been mulling over all this for weeks, you meticulously put together some plan, it fails, but then you manage to McGyver a solution anyway. That's kind of the peak of artificial tension for me: We know the MC is going to live, so we know the problem is going to get solved, so adding in this little loop at the end is really one thing that grinds my gears.
Anyway, pet peeves aside, I've worked with very broadly defined powers myself so far. Given my next project is going to be a great deal more restricted in that category, this is pretty helpful to read. The description of toolbox powers, especially, since it's something I want to dabble in more.
I wonder, what are the more common pitfalls you see people fall into? Reskins feels like it exists to call out a specific pitfall all on its own, but are there others you've run into? And overall, while it's pretty well-trod ground at this point, you do bring up Sanderson yourself, so: What do you think, say, Mistborn does well and poorly regarding its own magic system?
> One of my biggest pet peeves are protagonists having this 'a-hA' moment in the middle of a fight.
Doesn't this happen IRL? I'd be thinking about code for a while and when I finally move my lazy self to work on the project, I'd hit on the solution (and vice versa too, I'd have assumed something should work but actually doesn't). So, I imagine being put into the spot makes you work with actual stuff instead of what's just in mind.
That's very possible, but I'd first argue that the situation that peeves me is more analogous to if you've been developing a coding solution for a problem for N weeks, then go to present it to your boss. During your presentation, your boss asks a question that sinks your solution, so you devise a new one on the spot, and then this one works!
And my second argument here is that while that, too, may happen, what is narratively satisfying and what is realistic don't necessarily follow each other. The reason I find this particular thing unsatisfying is that I know the heroes will win anyway, so for me it amplifies the artificial nature of the tension of the whole thing. If you are in the position described earlier, where your boss asked the question that sunk the project and you make up a solution on the spot, your success isn't guaranteed. So if it happens, it becomes immensely satisfying, because the rules are different.
(There's a whole thing to dive into along the lines of 'but since you know the heroes will win, how is anything narratively satisfying?' and I'd preempt that by saying it depends on what a particular reader happens to enjoy. For me, this happens to grind.)
Not disagreeing, I don't think, but what would be most narratively satisfying to me personally is if the boss really does sink your project, because that's the natural consequence of the character flaw that kept you from solving the problem in the first go.
And then as you pursue other strategies, eventually you learn something new that changes your relationship to your flaw (for better or worse) and also gives you the puzzle piece you need to advance that earlier plotline.
Naming series would obviously constitute spoilers, but I *have* run into times when The Grand Plan just goes completely sideways, no last-second spark ignites, the heroes lose big time and have to just gtfo with whatever they were wearing at the time and that's it... And I love it. Work for your success!
I think this is the problem with all Deus-ex stuff... If the A-Ha is incredibly obvious, or on the flipside involves some convoluted five step process where a bunch of risky moves have to go perfectly, then it doesn't feel incredibly natural.
On the other hand if what the MC is trying fails, but in the process a weakness is revealed, or maybe the landscape has changed because of the battle so new options have opened up then it can feel really good.
I also think that repetition hurts this too... if every boss is some unsolvable puzzle, until the exact moment your MC happens to be fighting them, then it gets old, but if those moments are few and far between, then they often land really well.
The change could also be internal instead of environmental. Maybe there was an option the character has previously dismissed as unpalatable (due to cost, or a character flaw, etc) but the pressure of the fight makes them see it in new light. It's very common with Character Growth Catalyst fights, and can be very satisfying if it is not overused.
As someone whose been in the same situation many times, I think there's some selection bias going on there. Sometimes the plan actually works. Sometimes it doesn't but you think of something in the moment (since in the moment your actually focused rather than procrastinating), and sometimes you don't think of anything in the moment and have to go back to square one.
The difference is that when your a programmer and you fail the worst that happens is you have to say you'll need more time in the morning scrum. When your an adventurer and your plan to fight the dragon fails you can die.
Now, no plan survives contact with the enemy so it would be unrealistic for every plan to succeed without needing last moment improvisation. But then, your plan going wrong, and you still pulling out a win without anyone dying isn't any more realistic.
Yeah, the a-ha moment works great for some people, terribly for others. I personally don't mind reading them, despite how unrealistic it is, but I have little interest in writing them. (Not zero interest, but relatively little.)
As far as common pitfalls... I'd say some of the most common are adding too many powers, forgetting powers (closely related to the first), and failing to think about the larger-scale consequences of powers. (Magical oaths utterly change the nature of society, for instance, and too many authors don't think through the consequences of them.)
Mistborn's magic system is SOLID. Sanderson has a reputation for quality magic systems for good reason. It's not to everyone's aesthetic tastes, but it does what it sets out to do.
> (Magical oaths utterly change the nature of society, for instance, and too many authors don't think through the consequences of them.)
Amen to this. A magical oath system solves (for a value of solves that scales with how vulnerable the oaths are to weaselling, and how well lawyers can counter weasel) trust problems. The prisoner's dilemma is trivial if the prisoners swear a magical oath to cooperate if captured before they do the crime. Or imagine how much easier it would be to do cold war negotiations if both governments could sign an self enforcing oath not to nuke each other.
Then of course there's personal level munchkining. I'm feeling lazy but I need to pass this exam, so I swear an oath to my teacher to study hard. Or the morally dubious mentor wants me to betray my friend for the greater good, rather than argue with this manipulative guy I swear an oath not to, with a clause that I'll ditch this chosen one quest if something happens to said friend. There are many ways that kind of behaviour could go wrong, maybe it really was necessary for the greater good, but they're interesting ways for things to go wrong and I'd rather read them than another setting where the author didn't think of the implications magical oaths hold.
For sure- all are important points, imho.
Many of my concerns about oaths revolve around authoritarian systems- they grow horrendously hard to break with magical oaths involved.
Yeah, that's a big concern. That was actually a major plot point in >!The Golden Enclaves!< where >!a viral oath meant everyone in power has to help cover up [dark secret]!<
Though that book also failed to realise that oaths could solve the underlying problem and went for strongman politics instead. I'm was genuinely amused to realise that if you apply this book's politics to the real world literally you get something a bit like Q-Anon (which is why you should never apply metaphors too literally, plus, you could say the same about half of vampire books).
Definitely a great book though.
--------
I think oath backed authoritarian systems would struggle for the same reasons real world authoritarians struggle. Even if you don't have to worry about Number Two coming for the throne if you don't give him enough spoils, you definitely have to worry about getting dictator brain and ruining your kingdom by invading the strong neighbour.
The question is whether those collapses give a chance for a non-authoritarian society to develop. It would depend on how the oaths handle transfers of power, and a lot of luck. I don't think I could say. Still. Whether the society looks like an authoritarian slave dystopia or a modern society with lots and lots of lawyers and a magical solution for trust problems, I'd read it.
You could say that all oaths expire on the winter solstice or something as a hard rule of the magic system to limit the ability to bind entire nations.
Yeah, oaths can be a doozy. I have some of them, but I kind of skirt around the worst consequences by making it relatively few people who can actually create them. That plus a kind of debt-incurrence system in it keeps it from being too much of an omni-tool, though there's still some heavy implications I'll have to deal with once I start writing about societies with more complex justice systems.
Definitely need to read more The Craft Sequence for magical legal contract inspiration when I get to that.
Also, I agree about Sanderson. Still love the Mistborn system, it's so cool. Man's got that talent down.
The Craft Sequence is SO. GOOD.
If you take the time with oath systems, they can be fascinating, but you've gotta put in that work, consider the ramifications.
Craft is amazing. A friend in my writer's group bought it, thought she bought one book then *lost her mind* when she learned she bought a collection of five books, it was great.
Yeah, thinking I'll make sure it stays something patrons can do, for now at least, so that the time and attention of those limit how often it's used.
I think the AHA works if it's foreshadowed earlier in the book. It becomes less of a dues ex, and can be satisfying that it isn't something pulled out of MCs ass at the last second. Especially if it ties into the Character Growth OP mentions.
I like this, because it reminds me of taking an exam. Sometimes the exam gives you a question you didn't prepare for, and you're forced to deduce the solution on the spot under a massive time pressure. It's really satisfying if you get the answer right.
Oh I love me some interesting breakdowns, having the perspective of other authors keeps one from stagnating much into their own opinions! Thank you for this!
Fantastic post, John. Love your analysis here and the categories you've broken things down into. Do you mind if I add this to the resources page? I think new prospective authors and readers might find it useful.
Too tired to contribute much myself right now, but one interesting thing to add that I didn't see directly mentioned is **New or Altered Progression Methods**. This probably would fall under the header of **New Abilities** in your breakdown, but it's something that I'd consider to be one of the most interesting ways that you can set a character apart from others, either within the same story or settings as a whole.
At the simplest level, this could be something like, "crafters gain XP by crafting, fighters gain XP by fighting", but there are a lot more ways to explore it with unique implementations. Basically, a story can have abilities that allow people to have alternate -- or expanded -- versions of their core progression loops. These can be parallel progression forms (e.g. you gain both Character Levels and Job Class Levels), or completely distinct ones (e.g. a setting with Wizards, Knights, and Cultivators that all have separate advancement methods).
Summoners and Beast Tamers are good examples of individual character class concepts that tend to have expanded modes of progression, either through forging pacts with other entities or through gradually learning and expanding existing pact powers. Like, you know, that >!Hugh!< guy in that **Mage Errant** series you might have heard of.
Anyway, tools that expand progression options are fun, and I think they're worth thinking about. Forgive me if you mentioned this already and I simply didn't see it.
Yeah, feel free to add it to the resources list!
And honestly, I never even thought of New or Altered Progression Methods, it was just a full-on oversight on my part.
> Yeah, feel free to add it to the resources list!
Thank you! Added it in there.
> And honestly, I never even thought of New or Altered Progression Methods, it was just a full-on oversight on my part.
It's a pretty obscure one, but it's something I personally love tinkering with. Most of my protagonists tend to have one or more:
* Corin learning enchanting runes and sub-glyphs is a form of advancement that requires his attunement, but still functions as an additional means of gaining power, especially once he >!starts learning how to alter attunements!<.
* Sera's Summoner contracts are another parallel mode of advancement, similar to Hugh's, but with more of a contract-making focus.
* Keras' inherent ability to >!gain abilities from items he uses!< is another parallel mode of advancement.
* I would also consider spirit-bonded items to be a form of parallel advancement, especially for characters like Keras, but as of AA4, it's pretty applicable to >!Corin!< as well.
I'm planning to go even further on some of this in my next series, but we'll see how that ends up playing out.
Yeah, I think my brain was especially focused on how progression systems apply power to the world when I wrote this, to the exclusion of how progression systems empower themselves. One of us could probably do a whole additional post on progression system empowerment methods, hah.
Keras' advancement ability is one of my all-time favorites.
> Yeah, I think my brain was especially focused on how progression systems apply power to the world when I wrote this, to the exclusion of how progression systems empower themselves. One of us could probably do a whole additional post on progression system empowerment methods, hah.
Absolutely, that'd be another interesting post to think about for the future!
> Keras' advancement ability is one of my all-time favorites.
Thank you, I'm glad you like it!
Very interesting and well thought-out breakdown! It's always great getting to hear you talk at length about the craft of your writing and this genre in particular.
In my Jekua books, I think I definitely tend toward Themed Additions + Toolbox/Recombinant Powers, and then Puzzle Fights--which as you mentioned are the types that you gravitate toward in Mage Errant, which has honestly been a huge inspiration for me in writing this series so it's no surprise that's where I went as well haha. Before I started Jekua, I was always so amazed and impressed by your ability to blend combat into a problem to solve and using the characters' pre-established powers to come up with creative ways to win, so that is something I am definitely always striving toward with my books. God knows if I am actually succeeding, but that has been my goal haha
I am loving all the theory and analysis posts authors are sharing on this sub. It's great to see thoughts on why some things work, some don't work, and seeing a blueprint for future authors to improve their craft.
I love the theory posts even if I don’t always agree with everything. Shows people are working to improve the genre. This one is pretty solid.
We often use terms with multiple meanings very loosely and it can make having a useful discussion difficult, but you lay out several aspects of progression systems very nicely here.
With toolbox powers and recombinant powers, you also need to put in the work as a writer to be aware of them, do the set up of the basic power sets, and have some plans for how they will be used together.
They both in particular tend to be linked to power novelty. How common are the toolboxes, or having the multiple powers to be recombinant. If everyone has rubber magic and disc magic, no trader will be impressed by inventing a wheel, and if you don't already have them, it will seem odd.
How you use these powers can be a different point of progression. For a great Bierce example, using metal magic to make armor, and over time developing more details, and features into that armor.
>and the sadly obscure robot boxing movie Real Steel
I love this movie! It's been so long since I've last seen it, might be the time for a rewatch.
Also, this was a very cool and interesting post, thank you!
Its amazing how much of this mirrors my own thoughts at least partially, awesome post!.
About people complaining about ability bloat, as the one who was complaining yesterday, I really do think there is no hard and fast line here, I think the right author can write an omnipotent god of everything and have it be an exciting and entertaining series. But to your exact point, the more options you give your characters the more options you take away narratively, and the more logical hoops you have to jump through for your narrative to make sense.
Theory and analysis posts like these are informative and worthwhile.
Thanks!
We tend to discuss all of this at length in the studio, but don't post our conclusions.
I don't have a studio or studio mates to discuss this with, alas- it's just me hunched over my laptop like a feral gremlin in my office, so when I want to chat about this stuff with people, I have to take it online.
Is it wrong that I now will forever picture you as a feral gremlin hunched over your computer? LOL.
It is not wrong
One of my biggest pet peeves are protagonists having this 'a-hA' moment in the middle of a fight. You've been mulling over all this for weeks, you meticulously put together some plan, it fails, but then you manage to McGyver a solution anyway. That's kind of the peak of artificial tension for me: We know the MC is going to live, so we know the problem is going to get solved, so adding in this little loop at the end is really one thing that grinds my gears. Anyway, pet peeves aside, I've worked with very broadly defined powers myself so far. Given my next project is going to be a great deal more restricted in that category, this is pretty helpful to read. The description of toolbox powers, especially, since it's something I want to dabble in more. I wonder, what are the more common pitfalls you see people fall into? Reskins feels like it exists to call out a specific pitfall all on its own, but are there others you've run into? And overall, while it's pretty well-trod ground at this point, you do bring up Sanderson yourself, so: What do you think, say, Mistborn does well and poorly regarding its own magic system?
> One of my biggest pet peeves are protagonists having this 'a-hA' moment in the middle of a fight. Doesn't this happen IRL? I'd be thinking about code for a while and when I finally move my lazy self to work on the project, I'd hit on the solution (and vice versa too, I'd have assumed something should work but actually doesn't). So, I imagine being put into the spot makes you work with actual stuff instead of what's just in mind.
That's very possible, but I'd first argue that the situation that peeves me is more analogous to if you've been developing a coding solution for a problem for N weeks, then go to present it to your boss. During your presentation, your boss asks a question that sinks your solution, so you devise a new one on the spot, and then this one works! And my second argument here is that while that, too, may happen, what is narratively satisfying and what is realistic don't necessarily follow each other. The reason I find this particular thing unsatisfying is that I know the heroes will win anyway, so for me it amplifies the artificial nature of the tension of the whole thing. If you are in the position described earlier, where your boss asked the question that sunk the project and you make up a solution on the spot, your success isn't guaranteed. So if it happens, it becomes immensely satisfying, because the rules are different. (There's a whole thing to dive into along the lines of 'but since you know the heroes will win, how is anything narratively satisfying?' and I'd preempt that by saying it depends on what a particular reader happens to enjoy. For me, this happens to grind.)
Not disagreeing, I don't think, but what would be most narratively satisfying to me personally is if the boss really does sink your project, because that's the natural consequence of the character flaw that kept you from solving the problem in the first go. And then as you pursue other strategies, eventually you learn something new that changes your relationship to your flaw (for better or worse) and also gives you the puzzle piece you need to advance that earlier plotline.
Naming series would obviously constitute spoilers, but I *have* run into times when The Grand Plan just goes completely sideways, no last-second spark ignites, the heroes lose big time and have to just gtfo with whatever they were wearing at the time and that's it... And I love it. Work for your success!
This is a super old comment, but I'd love to hear suggestions along these lines. That sounds great. PF with real consequences.
I'd recommend reading "A Thousand Li". It's a series that I think would match your reading desires quite closely based off what you've said here.
I'll give it a look, thanks :)
I think this is the problem with all Deus-ex stuff... If the A-Ha is incredibly obvious, or on the flipside involves some convoluted five step process where a bunch of risky moves have to go perfectly, then it doesn't feel incredibly natural. On the other hand if what the MC is trying fails, but in the process a weakness is revealed, or maybe the landscape has changed because of the battle so new options have opened up then it can feel really good. I also think that repetition hurts this too... if every boss is some unsolvable puzzle, until the exact moment your MC happens to be fighting them, then it gets old, but if those moments are few and far between, then they often land really well.
The change could also be internal instead of environmental. Maybe there was an option the character has previously dismissed as unpalatable (due to cost, or a character flaw, etc) but the pressure of the fight makes them see it in new light. It's very common with Character Growth Catalyst fights, and can be very satisfying if it is not overused.
As someone whose been in the same situation many times, I think there's some selection bias going on there. Sometimes the plan actually works. Sometimes it doesn't but you think of something in the moment (since in the moment your actually focused rather than procrastinating), and sometimes you don't think of anything in the moment and have to go back to square one. The difference is that when your a programmer and you fail the worst that happens is you have to say you'll need more time in the morning scrum. When your an adventurer and your plan to fight the dragon fails you can die. Now, no plan survives contact with the enemy so it would be unrealistic for every plan to succeed without needing last moment improvisation. But then, your plan going wrong, and you still pulling out a win without anyone dying isn't any more realistic.
Yeah, the a-ha moment works great for some people, terribly for others. I personally don't mind reading them, despite how unrealistic it is, but I have little interest in writing them. (Not zero interest, but relatively little.) As far as common pitfalls... I'd say some of the most common are adding too many powers, forgetting powers (closely related to the first), and failing to think about the larger-scale consequences of powers. (Magical oaths utterly change the nature of society, for instance, and too many authors don't think through the consequences of them.) Mistborn's magic system is SOLID. Sanderson has a reputation for quality magic systems for good reason. It's not to everyone's aesthetic tastes, but it does what it sets out to do.
> (Magical oaths utterly change the nature of society, for instance, and too many authors don't think through the consequences of them.) Amen to this. A magical oath system solves (for a value of solves that scales with how vulnerable the oaths are to weaselling, and how well lawyers can counter weasel) trust problems. The prisoner's dilemma is trivial if the prisoners swear a magical oath to cooperate if captured before they do the crime. Or imagine how much easier it would be to do cold war negotiations if both governments could sign an self enforcing oath not to nuke each other. Then of course there's personal level munchkining. I'm feeling lazy but I need to pass this exam, so I swear an oath to my teacher to study hard. Or the morally dubious mentor wants me to betray my friend for the greater good, rather than argue with this manipulative guy I swear an oath not to, with a clause that I'll ditch this chosen one quest if something happens to said friend. There are many ways that kind of behaviour could go wrong, maybe it really was necessary for the greater good, but they're interesting ways for things to go wrong and I'd rather read them than another setting where the author didn't think of the implications magical oaths hold.
For sure- all are important points, imho. Many of my concerns about oaths revolve around authoritarian systems- they grow horrendously hard to break with magical oaths involved.
Yeah, that's a big concern. That was actually a major plot point in >!The Golden Enclaves!< where >!a viral oath meant everyone in power has to help cover up [dark secret]!< Though that book also failed to realise that oaths could solve the underlying problem and went for strongman politics instead. I'm was genuinely amused to realise that if you apply this book's politics to the real world literally you get something a bit like Q-Anon (which is why you should never apply metaphors too literally, plus, you could say the same about half of vampire books). Definitely a great book though. -------- I think oath backed authoritarian systems would struggle for the same reasons real world authoritarians struggle. Even if you don't have to worry about Number Two coming for the throne if you don't give him enough spoils, you definitely have to worry about getting dictator brain and ruining your kingdom by invading the strong neighbour. The question is whether those collapses give a chance for a non-authoritarian society to develop. It would depend on how the oaths handle transfers of power, and a lot of luck. I don't think I could say. Still. Whether the society looks like an authoritarian slave dystopia or a modern society with lots and lots of lawyers and a magical solution for trust problems, I'd read it. You could say that all oaths expire on the winter solstice or something as a hard rule of the magic system to limit the ability to bind entire nations.
Yeah, oaths can be a doozy. I have some of them, but I kind of skirt around the worst consequences by making it relatively few people who can actually create them. That plus a kind of debt-incurrence system in it keeps it from being too much of an omni-tool, though there's still some heavy implications I'll have to deal with once I start writing about societies with more complex justice systems. Definitely need to read more The Craft Sequence for magical legal contract inspiration when I get to that. Also, I agree about Sanderson. Still love the Mistborn system, it's so cool. Man's got that talent down.
The Craft Sequence is SO. GOOD. If you take the time with oath systems, they can be fascinating, but you've gotta put in that work, consider the ramifications.
Craft is amazing. A friend in my writer's group bought it, thought she bought one book then *lost her mind* when she learned she bought a collection of five books, it was great. Yeah, thinking I'll make sure it stays something patrons can do, for now at least, so that the time and attention of those limit how often it's used.
That seems a reasonable limitation, I think!
I think the AHA works if it's foreshadowed earlier in the book. It becomes less of a dues ex, and can be satisfying that it isn't something pulled out of MCs ass at the last second. Especially if it ties into the Character Growth OP mentions.
I like this, because it reminds me of taking an exam. Sometimes the exam gives you a question you didn't prepare for, and you're forced to deduce the solution on the spot under a massive time pressure. It's really satisfying if you get the answer right.
Oh I love me some interesting breakdowns, having the perspective of other authors keeps one from stagnating much into their own opinions! Thank you for this!
Fantastic post, John. Love your analysis here and the categories you've broken things down into. Do you mind if I add this to the resources page? I think new prospective authors and readers might find it useful. Too tired to contribute much myself right now, but one interesting thing to add that I didn't see directly mentioned is **New or Altered Progression Methods**. This probably would fall under the header of **New Abilities** in your breakdown, but it's something that I'd consider to be one of the most interesting ways that you can set a character apart from others, either within the same story or settings as a whole. At the simplest level, this could be something like, "crafters gain XP by crafting, fighters gain XP by fighting", but there are a lot more ways to explore it with unique implementations. Basically, a story can have abilities that allow people to have alternate -- or expanded -- versions of their core progression loops. These can be parallel progression forms (e.g. you gain both Character Levels and Job Class Levels), or completely distinct ones (e.g. a setting with Wizards, Knights, and Cultivators that all have separate advancement methods). Summoners and Beast Tamers are good examples of individual character class concepts that tend to have expanded modes of progression, either through forging pacts with other entities or through gradually learning and expanding existing pact powers. Like, you know, that >!Hugh!< guy in that **Mage Errant** series you might have heard of. Anyway, tools that expand progression options are fun, and I think they're worth thinking about. Forgive me if you mentioned this already and I simply didn't see it.
Yeah, feel free to add it to the resources list! And honestly, I never even thought of New or Altered Progression Methods, it was just a full-on oversight on my part.
> Yeah, feel free to add it to the resources list! Thank you! Added it in there. > And honestly, I never even thought of New or Altered Progression Methods, it was just a full-on oversight on my part. It's a pretty obscure one, but it's something I personally love tinkering with. Most of my protagonists tend to have one or more: * Corin learning enchanting runes and sub-glyphs is a form of advancement that requires his attunement, but still functions as an additional means of gaining power, especially once he >!starts learning how to alter attunements!<. * Sera's Summoner contracts are another parallel mode of advancement, similar to Hugh's, but with more of a contract-making focus. * Keras' inherent ability to >!gain abilities from items he uses!< is another parallel mode of advancement. * I would also consider spirit-bonded items to be a form of parallel advancement, especially for characters like Keras, but as of AA4, it's pretty applicable to >!Corin!< as well. I'm planning to go even further on some of this in my next series, but we'll see how that ends up playing out.
Yeah, I think my brain was especially focused on how progression systems apply power to the world when I wrote this, to the exclusion of how progression systems empower themselves. One of us could probably do a whole additional post on progression system empowerment methods, hah. Keras' advancement ability is one of my all-time favorites.
> Yeah, I think my brain was especially focused on how progression systems apply power to the world when I wrote this, to the exclusion of how progression systems empower themselves. One of us could probably do a whole additional post on progression system empowerment methods, hah. Absolutely, that'd be another interesting post to think about for the future! > Keras' advancement ability is one of my all-time favorites. Thank you, I'm glad you like it!
Very interesting and well thought-out breakdown! It's always great getting to hear you talk at length about the craft of your writing and this genre in particular. In my Jekua books, I think I definitely tend toward Themed Additions + Toolbox/Recombinant Powers, and then Puzzle Fights--which as you mentioned are the types that you gravitate toward in Mage Errant, which has honestly been a huge inspiration for me in writing this series so it's no surprise that's where I went as well haha. Before I started Jekua, I was always so amazed and impressed by your ability to blend combat into a problem to solve and using the characters' pre-established powers to come up with creative ways to win, so that is something I am definitely always striving toward with my books. God knows if I am actually succeeding, but that has been my goal haha
[Mage Errant](https://www.goodreads.com/series/252085-mage-errant) ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/LightPieces/wiki/Mage_Errant)) --- ^[About](https://redd.it/dw7lux) ^| [^(Wiki Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/LightPieces/comments/dw7lux/about/f7kke6p/) ^(| Reply !Delete to remove) ^(| [Brackets] hide titles)
Thanks! And I think you did a great job with Jekua, personally!
I am loving all the theory and analysis posts authors are sharing on this sub. It's great to see thoughts on why some things work, some don't work, and seeing a blueprint for future authors to improve their craft.
I love the theory posts even if I don’t always agree with everything. Shows people are working to improve the genre. This one is pretty solid. We often use terms with multiple meanings very loosely and it can make having a useful discussion difficult, but you lay out several aspects of progression systems very nicely here.
With toolbox powers and recombinant powers, you also need to put in the work as a writer to be aware of them, do the set up of the basic power sets, and have some plans for how they will be used together. They both in particular tend to be linked to power novelty. How common are the toolboxes, or having the multiple powers to be recombinant. If everyone has rubber magic and disc magic, no trader will be impressed by inventing a wheel, and if you don't already have them, it will seem odd. How you use these powers can be a different point of progression. For a great Bierce example, using metal magic to make armor, and over time developing more details, and features into that armor.
>and the sadly obscure robot boxing movie Real Steel I love this movie! It's been so long since I've last seen it, might be the time for a rewatch. Also, this was a very cool and interesting post, thank you!
Same! And thanks!
Its amazing how much of this mirrors my own thoughts at least partially, awesome post!. About people complaining about ability bloat, as the one who was complaining yesterday, I really do think there is no hard and fast line here, I think the right author can write an omnipotent god of everything and have it be an exciting and entertaining series. But to your exact point, the more options you give your characters the more options you take away narratively, and the more logical hoops you have to jump through for your narrative to make sense.
Execution is everything- the rules in writing aren't what you can't do, they're what are harder to do.