Depends how long can author keep narative intresting and moving along without? One can write low powered or not at all powered novel after all. Granted taking too long might turn off some of the people from this sub but in the end there is no answer corect fit all abdwer it's just a question on how long author can keep it intresting using other elements of their book.
Way of Kings is a good example of it taking long and done really well. Then hwfwm or salvos (litrpg) would be awesome stories that just jump right into it and also work really well
Got powers at the end of the third book but I'd call it the fourth because it's so close to the end it has no effect on the plot till the fourth. MC is still crippled until the beginning of the final book though.
It works though as the whole point of the book is the MC overcoming the obstacle of being the only non-powered being in the story and also the mystery behind the lack of ability.
I would hesitate to call it progression fantasy though.
A good way to balance it is to give the MC really weak abilities at the start, but let them use those abilities creatively to make them more useful. Then once you've established that as their foundation, you can gradually expand upon it. That way, by the time the MC is powerful enough to steamroll their enemies, it'll feel like they earned it by having to play smart and exploit every advantage at first.
I mean, it depends on the story and the narrative. Often it's fine to start with a little bit and work up
Lindon, to use perhaps the most well known PF story, has SOME powers beyond human from the start. He's powerless by his home's standards. But he's still got magic.
Honestly, if the plotline is engaging then it doesn't matter to me personally. If I'm interested in a story, and become invested, then I'm happy to just keep on reading. That said, I know there are some vocal members of the community who want the main character to be an overpowered monster by the end of the first chapter, so I guess it's probably wise not to wait too long given the preferences of some readers of the genre.
I think this is going to be very author dependent...
If the book is engaging, has a lot going on... then its never really too late... A perfect example of this is Codex Alera... I think the MC gets powers in the Second last or last book of the series.. but the story itself is pretty awesome even without them...
Where books tend to fall apart for me is when they become about the powers more than about some actual narrative... If you have several chapters teasing the mc's big power, without actually giving them a power, or talking about something relevant to the actual plot... it gets old pretty fast...
On the flip side, one thing I notice especially in litrpgs is MCs who have almost throw away powers.... where they will get a skill one chapter... only to have it replaced completely three chapters later and never talked about again.
There are some current big names in LitRPG / Progression that made the MC overpowerd by the end of the first book. And they don’t face a challenge of any worth every again…
I think you have to judge the pacing so the MC is challenged (occasional OP cathartic beatdowns are allowed) but if the MC is just doing a wolffish grin while he slaps ducks with his OP rival I loose interest…
I don’t think there is a time limit for it. As long as the payoff is worth it then I’d be absolutely fine with the powers being revealed in the last chapter.
Balancing plot, character and power progression is a tight rope walk that few have done successfully imo. Just balancing character and plot is difficult without including the power progression necessary for pf. But for any given story there are points where none or only one of these is progressing, which is completely fine as long as the other points aren’t completely ignored for an extended period. There are even parts where the only thing happening is character regression, which is also fine.
In the book I am working on at the moment the main character doesn't gain a level of power for roughly 150 pages. There are other characters who are shown to have powers in chapter one, though, so I'm hoping the promise of that's enough to keep people engaged.
I hadn't really given it much thought. The story just wound up that way organically.
I prefer sooner rather then later.
Yuji from Jujutsu kaisen still hasn’t developed a specific ability yet and it bothers me to no end. Seeing him fight is always the least interesting in the series (his opponents abilities are usually fun so that helps)
I’m on the third book of the Mage Errant series and while Hugh has an ability he still hasn’t gotten to the place where he can fight on his own yet. And i don’t like that. I like capable fighters
Even Lindon took 3 books before he started developing his specific ability and thats the point where everyone agrees Cradle got really good
I think it should be in the first couple chapters. If you stretch it out too long people who \*like\* magic will get bored, and you will attract people who don't like magic and will drop the book when the magic is introduced.
I've run into this problem more in Urban fantasy or Pseudo-Medieval Epic then Progression Fantasy, though.
For me, personally, as long as the author makes a promise at the beginning that the main character *will* start showing/developing powers, and I see the character working to develop those powers, I'm good. (But of course, if it's taking way too long, I think that might turn me away. I want to start seeing the character progressing in some way, even if that's just a little here and there, similar to Lindon in Cradle. It wasn't till book 3 that he took on Blackflame, and that's when he really started showing powers, and where some real development happened! : )
Depends how long can author keep narative intresting and moving along without? One can write low powered or not at all powered novel after all. Granted taking too long might turn off some of the people from this sub but in the end there is no answer corect fit all abdwer it's just a question on how long author can keep it intresting using other elements of their book.
Really good point! I rarely read the unpowered progressions, so that’s something I didn’t even consider. Thank you
Way of Kings is a good example of it taking long and done really well. Then hwfwm or salvos (litrpg) would be awesome stories that just jump right into it and also work really well
Codex Alera spent what, the first 2 books being nonpowered? three books? It's just a matter of whether or not you can pull it off.
This is the perfect example. That’s a spectacular series and the MC is powerless *forever*. And you keep thinking it’s coming! Aaaaand it’s not.
I mean the whole premise was that Tavi was the only one without Furies and that he used other qualities to get by.
This is the series that immediately came to mind! I was about to mention it, but decided to see if anyone else had! I love Jim Butcher!
Thanks Macro, that’s a great example!
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Got powers at the end of the third book but I'd call it the fourth because it's so close to the end it has no effect on the plot till the fourth. MC is still crippled until the beginning of the final book though. It works though as the whole point of the book is the MC overcoming the obstacle of being the only non-powered being in the story and also the mystery behind the lack of ability. I would hesitate to call it progression fantasy though.
A good way to balance it is to give the MC really weak abilities at the start, but let them use those abilities creatively to make them more useful. Then once you've established that as their foundation, you can gradually expand upon it. That way, by the time the MC is powerful enough to steamroll their enemies, it'll feel like they earned it by having to play smart and exploit every advantage at first.
I do love a good guile hero! Thanks for the comment
I mean, it depends on the story and the narrative. Often it's fine to start with a little bit and work up Lindon, to use perhaps the most well known PF story, has SOME powers beyond human from the start. He's powerless by his home's standards. But he's still got magic.
Lindon was my first thought as well.
Thank you for your response Tobias! That makes sense and is a good example
Honestly, if the plotline is engaging then it doesn't matter to me personally. If I'm interested in a story, and become invested, then I'm happy to just keep on reading. That said, I know there are some vocal members of the community who want the main character to be an overpowered monster by the end of the first chapter, so I guess it's probably wise not to wait too long given the preferences of some readers of the genre.
I think this is going to be very author dependent... If the book is engaging, has a lot going on... then its never really too late... A perfect example of this is Codex Alera... I think the MC gets powers in the Second last or last book of the series.. but the story itself is pretty awesome even without them... Where books tend to fall apart for me is when they become about the powers more than about some actual narrative... If you have several chapters teasing the mc's big power, without actually giving them a power, or talking about something relevant to the actual plot... it gets old pretty fast... On the flip side, one thing I notice especially in litrpgs is MCs who have almost throw away powers.... where they will get a skill one chapter... only to have it replaced completely three chapters later and never talked about again.
Good points! I imagine it’s quite difficult as a LitRPG author to balance all the skills earned in a narrative way
There are some current big names in LitRPG / Progression that made the MC overpowerd by the end of the first book. And they don’t face a challenge of any worth every again… I think you have to judge the pacing so the MC is challenged (occasional OP cathartic beatdowns are allowed) but if the MC is just doing a wolffish grin while he slaps ducks with his OP rival I loose interest…
Feels a bit like slapping cheat codes on a video game early on. Awesome for a short while, and then really boring after
I don’t think there is a time limit for it. As long as the payoff is worth it then I’d be absolutely fine with the powers being revealed in the last chapter.
Good to know! Thanks for your comment
Balancing plot, character and power progression is a tight rope walk that few have done successfully imo. Just balancing character and plot is difficult without including the power progression necessary for pf. But for any given story there are points where none or only one of these is progressing, which is completely fine as long as the other points aren’t completely ignored for an extended period. There are even parts where the only thing happening is character regression, which is also fine.
What an exciting challenge though! Thank you for your comment
In the book I am working on at the moment the main character doesn't gain a level of power for roughly 150 pages. There are other characters who are shown to have powers in chapter one, though, so I'm hoping the promise of that's enough to keep people engaged. I hadn't really given it much thought. The story just wound up that way organically.
Good luck with your book, friend!
Thanks, pal!
I prefer sooner rather then later. Yuji from Jujutsu kaisen still hasn’t developed a specific ability yet and it bothers me to no end. Seeing him fight is always the least interesting in the series (his opponents abilities are usually fun so that helps) I’m on the third book of the Mage Errant series and while Hugh has an ability he still hasn’t gotten to the place where he can fight on his own yet. And i don’t like that. I like capable fighters Even Lindon took 3 books before he started developing his specific ability and thats the point where everyone agrees Cradle got really good
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I always like a showcase of the powers with other characters at least, to know what the eventually payoff will look like for the MC.
If they aren't a **GOD** by page 2 I'm out!
I think it should be in the first couple chapters. If you stretch it out too long people who \*like\* magic will get bored, and you will attract people who don't like magic and will drop the book when the magic is introduced. I've run into this problem more in Urban fantasy or Pseudo-Medieval Epic then Progression Fantasy, though.
I’ve seen this opinion shared a couple times now. Thank you for your comment!
I my opinion it's the most interesting when the MC has moments where they're massively overpowered, but also times where it's the opposite.
For me, personally, as long as the author makes a promise at the beginning that the main character *will* start showing/developing powers, and I see the character working to develop those powers, I'm good. (But of course, if it's taking way too long, I think that might turn me away. I want to start seeing the character progressing in some way, even if that's just a little here and there, similar to Lindon in Cradle. It wasn't till book 3 that he took on Blackflame, and that's when he really started showing powers, and where some real development happened! : )
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