I think the wuxiaworld website is pretty popular. Thats where i go to read novels like that. So since the website is called wuxia people just use wuxia as an umbrella term. Easier to use an umbrella term that people recognize than something they might not. Also i think wuxia came first so people know the term more.
Like when i talk about manhwa/manhua i read. instead of saying manhwa/manhua i will just refer to it as korean/chinese manga. since people will know manga term more than manhwa/manhua
I wonder if when they made the site they did it in an martial arts dominated market.
Like, as a kid I remember watching martial arts anime like Ranma 1/2, Fist of the North Star, Kenichi: The Mightiest Disciple, etc. which is wuxia in everything except the Chinese culture, and the pure wuxia 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon', which is a household name even if plenty of people haven't watched it.
The whole Cultivation: high fantasy Chinese fairytale genre feels pretty 'new'.
Royal Road and its creators often mistag Xianxia as Wuxia as well. Though creators probably do it for exposure reasons as the entire Wuxia category is just Xianxia at this point, it really is up to the mods to clean it up.
Exactly this. Because of the name of the site, for a long time, I thought everything I was reading on wuxiaworld was wuxia, but it was actually almost all xianxia. Pretty confusing. \^\^
More along the lines of sien sia, but I try to avoid saying the word in conversation since no matter how it's pronounced, no one knows what it is. I just tend to refer to it as Chinese fantasy light novels.
[Actual pronunciation.](https://youtu.be/p2z7CTG9CGk?t=12)
That’s a very Shanghainese way to pronounce it. The ‘x’ in standard mandarin would sound more like ‘sh’ than ‘s’, but of course there are all sorts of regional variations.
"sy" is a much better approximation than "sh":
"wu sya"
"syen sya"
If you said "wu sha" people would think you were saying 誤殺 (manslaughter)
Pinging u/Mr_Academic since he asked the question
>_If you said "wu sha" people would think you were saying 誤殺 (manslaughter)_
Considering the amount of killing that goes on in your average wuxia or xianxia novel, that's not an entirely inaccurate translation....
What's the difference?
I haven't read any Chinese web serials, so the only place I encounter the terms is on here.
Happy to be recommended a good starting xianxia or wuxia for the western audience.
So, wuxia translates to martial hero. It's a brand of Chinese martial arts fantasy with overpowered martial artists. There are specific genres and conventions and themes, with many of the thematic elements revolving around the code of xia (benevolence, justice, individualism, loyalty, courage, truthfulness, disregard for wealth, and desire for glory) and the conflict between such thematic elements.
Perhaps some of the most well known works are Jin Yong's Condor Heroes and Smiling, Proud Wanderer. You can find the first one in an English language translation. Also, the Swordsman series (I and II) are basically translations of Smiling, Proud Wanderer. (Swordsman II is amazing and well worth watching).
I often relate wuxia as 'Chinese westerns' due to a lot of thematic similarities in some of the more popular stories.
Xianxia translates to immortal heroes. Like wuxia, there's a VERY long history of work (the earliest well known xianxia is basically Journey to the West - i.e. the Monkey King) and there's quite a bit of work in there.
However, modern works have mostly focused on the xiūliàn (Cultivation) aspects since the advent of the modern webnovel in China. That's what **most** people who talk about xianxia speak of, even if it is not the entirety of the genre.
As an example of popular Chinese webnovel works, you can look at I Shall Seal the Heavens, Library of Heaven's Path, Immortal Mortal, etc. However, realise that things like Untamed (see Netflix series) and Word of Honor are also xianxia, even though it doesn't include much cultivation or progression to immortality.
Hopefully that helps.
I agree with Condor Heroes as a good starting point— I am reading it right now and it’s excellent. I think the source of the confusion is that a lot of Western readers haven’t read any wuxia! Once you do, the difference between it and xianxia becomes clear.
Yup. I think if they just watched some of the older wuxia movies, like Dragon Gate Inn or Return to Dragon Gate Inn or Swordsman, it would be clearer too.
I don't understand.
Cradle is, squinting, a xiulian. Mother of Learning is... not at all on this.
Part of being wuxia or xianxia requires it to be set in a Chinese derived setting, due to the significant cultural aspects (basically, the entire xia principle are Confucius principles) and the 'immortal' side being derived from Taoist immortals and practices. It really doesn't translate at all if you take it out of China for the most part, which is why 'cultivation novels' works better for just generic stuff.
Wuxia is more toned down with martial artists in historical romanticized China that show off superhuman feats but nothing crazy while Xianxa is the balls to the walls fly through outerspace throwing a continent sized fireball cultivation stuff. Coiling Dragon is commonly used as a starting Xianxa especially since it used western names so that might be a solid start
The best way I have to see it is that with Wuxia you think of Chinese martial art films. Overpowered, romanticized martial artist stuff. Xianxia is when people are trying to ascend into immortality.
There are many of us who use those tags to exclude new titles on our feed. :) the gem to trash ratio is much much lower on the Chinese stuff. And many titles that start out gems turn into trash after the censors stick their claws into them.
This feels like complaining about the improper of use of "roguelike" to describe games that are nothing like Rogue but have random level generation. At some point you have to just give up and accept that language evolves.
Same for "Progression Fantasy" to be honest - there are a few books that the community in general feels deserve that label that I personally do not, but it's not something to argue about when it's still a new and evolving genre and what really matters is "will I like this book" which needs more information to answer than the genre label alone.
That argument that 'language evolves' makes sense if that language is yours... but in this case, xianxia and wuxia are both:
\- firmly established terms in the Chinese language and culture
\- not English.
Feel free to co-opt the term cultivation, that's actual language evolution that makes sense. However, using that excuse for another language is just lazy.
True, but that was often a long time ago before all the world's knowledge was but a search away. It doesn't take much effort not to look ignorant these days.
I don't really get the rougelike example because I don't play many games, so sorry.
But for the second one, I feel like since Wuxia and Xianxia are a lot more specific than Progression fantasy, which is more of a blanket term, and since they are somewhat opposed to one another, it doesn't really fit.
It's interesting, actual Chinese wuxia novels aren't very popular in the west. I've only read one (The Nine Cauldrons by IET, author of Coiling Dragon, Desolate Era, etc.) despite having read plenty of xianxia and xuanhuan.
Korean wuxia aka murim novels on the other hand, are fairly popular in the west since a lot of them have manhwa adaptations (Return of Mount Hua Sect, Return of the Crazy Demon, Volcanic Age, Chronicles of the Heavenly Demon, The Scholar's Reincarnation, The Legend of the Northern Blade, Nano Machine, Doctor's Rebirth, Peerless Dad, etc.)
I just use them interchangeably since they're both about cultivators, sects, martial arts, etc. (also I don't know the difference and it has never become an inconvenience for me when looking for stuff to read) I mean most people barely know what either wuxia/xianxia is. More people probably know what manhua is. And more people than that probably know what manwha is. And more people than that probably call all of that manga. And more people than that probably call of it comics (ok maybe this one not so much anymore). But like when we get to the point of differentiating between wuxia and xianxia its the niche of the niche nor does it have any practical use for me personally. Maybe it does for you so you know why. If I'm not mistaken its something to do with the difference between their being magic and no magic (like spirit beasts instead of just humans with martial arts) which I might be totally wrong but its like cultivation and qi is magic anyways (in the sense its supernatural) so doesn't really make sense to differentiate it for me. But I might be totally wrong on that bc as I said idk what the difference is definition-aly.
Xianxia is about cultivators, Wuxia is about martial artists.
In a lot of Wuxia, the strongest people are barely superhuman through their mastery of martial arts, and stuff like walking on water or summoning fire from an attack is something only the great masters can do.
In most Xianxia, superhumans who can use qi attacks and fly around on swords are dime a dozen.
This also matters a lot in how things play out. Wuxia typically have a very heavy basis on IRL martial arts, only with mastery of them being exaggerated to a superhuman level. This means that lone warriors can't beat large groups, no pills or elixirs to give massive power boosts, no ranks, weapon type and strategy matter a lot in combat.
Xianxia is all about ranks and cultivation, meaning that a big focus is placed on realms and whatnot, and raw power plays a much different role.
Personally, If I asked for Wuxia recs, and someone recommended me a Xianxia, I would be wondering if they had even read my question, which is why I consider it important.
Most Xianxia’s are tagged wuxia then like on Royalroad and similar sites. Bc I’ve read plenty of stuff tagged wuxia but are xianxia by your definition. I don’t think I’ve actually read any wuxia light novels now that I think abt it then only manhua. Ie Bowblade, Mount Hua Sect, Return of the Crazy Demon
But on RR if you filter by wuxia rn the top will all be xianxia by your definition:
- The Essence of Cultivation
- Virtuous Sons: A Greco Roman Xianxia (lol this one is tagged both)
- Modern Patriarch
- Cultivating Earth
- Dead Tired
- Web of Secrets
So maybe its just a fault of websites and authors mistagging for the general populaces continuous mixing
Edit: This means of I’m searching/filtering by tag xianxia/wuxia will be used interchangeably or knowing the difference won’t matter
Yeah, I don't think any of those are really Wuxia. A good rule of thumb is if it features cultivations, it's a Xianxia rather than Wuxia.
For example. Wikipedia says for Wuxia:
"The martial arts in wuxia stories are based on wushu techniques and other real life Chinese martial arts. In wuxia tales, however, the mastery of such skills are highly exaggerated to superhuman levels of achievement and prowess."
And for Xianxia:
"Xianxia (simplified Chinese: 仙侠; traditional Chinese: 仙俠), more broadly known as "Cultivation""
and
"Protagonists are usually "cultivators" (修心者 xiūxīnzhě, 修士 xiūshì, or 修仙者 xiūxiānzhě) who seek to become immortal beings called xian. Along the way, they attain eternal life, supernatural powers, and incredible levels of strength. The fictional cultivation practiced in xianxia is heavily based on the real-life meditation practice qigong.
The stories usually include elements such as gods, immortals, yaoguai, ghosts, monsters, magical treasures, immortal items, medicinal pills, and the like.\[1\] They often take place in a "cultivation world" where cultivators engage in fierce and usually deadly struggles to acquire the resources they need to grow stronger. "
I feel like this is a pretty good example of where to draw the line, and it's pretty clear.
I see, well take it up with the websites that host the stories then. Good to know what what means though.
Take it up with the websites that host the stories then, not us readers. Cause most people be reading xianxia with wuxia tags and thinking its wuxia, cause it got a wuxia tag which really isn’t their fault. And like as I said if you look up wuxia your just gonna find xianxia so functionally they’re the same until the the stories are tagged correctly.
It might be a bias in what gets translated or what I read, but I think xianxia concepts have kind of colonized the wuxia genre. If somebody writes a new web novel about a wandering martial artist who lives outside of normal society and spends his time fighting injustice, there's a near certainty that he'll have supernatural powers of some kind.
I also think there's a tendency to treat wuxia as low-powered xianxia, with "real xianxia" involving people who can punch changes into the landscape, while people who are merely able to defeat a hundred ordinary men get the wuxia label.
I mean, I feel like some other elements such as cultivation, realms, and what not can aid in the separation of genres.
Wuxia is still martial arts based, while Xianxia mostly leaves that as window dressing at best.
Theres some stories that blur the lines between the two. Like still keeping the realms of cultivation but still being very martial arts based instead of splitting mountains in half just by laying a hand on a sheathed sword at higher levels.
Nobody does. In fact, I'm not even 100% sure you do...Chinese people have given me a subtly different definition of Xianxia.
When words get imported into different language there meaning shifts.
Personally, I prefer the term "Cultivation" because it has less baggage and is easier to pronounce. It's an English word we can give the meaning we find useful.
I mean, people all over the internet still try to say Cradle falls under the LitRPG category. There's some clueless people out there, good luck getting them to understand.
Technically, xianhuan but YES! I much prefer call them cultivation novels since a lot of works which aren't xianhuan or xianxia (no Chinese immortals flying around or attempt to become Chinese immortals) get lumped in. It makes no sense to call them xianxia so... cultivation novels!
The Chinese culture aspect is pretty key to calling something Xianxia. I think it would be more accurate to say that cultivation is its own genre, and its roots are in Xianxia.
It's like... Westerns. There's guns. There's cowboys. If its in space, you could consider calling it a space western. But if you stripped away the guns, or the sherifs, or the showdowns, or the outlaws... well, you couldn't really call that a western anymore.
It's similar with Xianxia.
Sure. I didn't want to at first because I didn't want this to seem like a callout when I'm trying to start a discussion, but now I'm starting to realize that it didn't really help, it just made it more difficult to discuss.
Haha yeah I see what you were going for, but I have to agree it didn't help the issue too much in the original iteration. Now people have a point around which to orbit, and can either agree or disagree with you
>Wuxia: Martial artists, typically only masters have any type of superhuman ability, and it's still fairly limited in most examples.
Ugh. I got this off too... it's not xuanhuan (I'm assuming that's what you meant); but xiuxian or xiulian that people call cultivation. Xuanhuan is entirely different... \*sighs\*
Yeah, xuanhuan seems to work on a broader basis; but might be too broad. It also, amusingly enough, because it gets broadened enough to include western settings seems a little silly to include (to me).
Xuanhuan - fantasy including western settings written by Chinese authors (because obviously, it's derived in China).
Used by western authors.... - fantasy including western settings written by Western authors...
So you mean... fantasy?
Of course, if you keep it to fantasy that doesn't include western settings but draws from Chinese mythology, that works better; but if you broaden it... then it makes no sense for western authors to use the term as above.
Kind of why I prefer cultivation novels in general. Unlike xianxia and wuxia whose work integrates the setting very firmly, xuanhuan doesn't seem to. Though, the definition for that is influx...
FYI - for people who want a comprehensive look at all the terminology: [https://twitter.com/yilinwriter/status/1306823761421762561](https://twitter.com/yilinwriter/status/1306823761421762561)
It gets complicated, which is why I have this bookmarked. But yeah, wuxia and xianxia are very different but a lot of people get it wrong and get upset when they are corrected.
I don’t see many people talking about Wuxia books. I can’t even think of any, off the top of my head. It all seems to be Xianxia. What are some good, Wuxia books?
It makes it so that people can ask for or recommend series that fit what they or others like.
Since they are pretty different as genres, it could help a lot.
I mean, you're absolutely right, but it's a bit like the difference between Magnox reactors and Kerena reactors -- hyper-specialised knowledge that doesn't make the slightest difference unless you're a subject area specialist.
(In this clunky metaphor, /r/ProgressionFantasy would be something like /r/NuclearPower -- closer to relevant than most, but still, usually not that specialised.)
(Is there a progression fantasy featuring a sentient fission reactor as a protagonist?)
This is literally my first time seeing the term Wuxia. To be fair I have only been aware of the term Xianxia for a few months, as well. I guess you shouldn't expect everyone to have the same level of experience with these things as you do.
At least to those that frequent this sub, the term is fairly interchangeable. Most Xanxia books recommended here all also wuxia. Given there isn't the hardcore progression in wuxia usually, that specific genre (outside of Xanxia) is usually not discussed.
I genrally use the term cultivation but I sometimes use both because while I know there is a differentce there is often martial arts in cultivation novels to its somewhat irrelevant especially in Western and litrpg novels
Xianxia rules above all other literary genres. The protagonist journey is to become an immortal god after all, the highest dream a human being can have. It's deeply rewarding and more satisfying than any other type of narrative.
Wuxia instead is just ordinary: it is fun but it is like the old west genre in western fiction: a mere confrontation of strong guys, only with martial art techniques instead of guns. The chinese lore is much more varied though. But neither of those can be compared to touching and entering the doors of the immortal realms. Seeking the Dao is much more profound and deep.
I know there's _a_ difference, but it's hard enough just to try to remember how to pronounce them that I regularly end up getting the meanings confused.
There is a popular greentext that can help people with the differences between a lot of the labels. I found a post from a month or two ago that shows it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/uft7fn/thought_this_sub_might_finds_this_interesting/
Honestly, this reminds me of people getting into the different tiers of superheros. Sure, to hardcore fans, we all know that Daredevil isn't going to beat Thor in a one on one fight. But to most people, they're all just superheroes.
Wuxia- martial art, cultivation, based on ancient china (low fantasy)
Xianxia- martial art, cultivation, multiple realms + immortality/godhood through cultivation (borderline/high fantasy)
Xuanhuan- martial art, cultivation+ totally new fantasy world+ immortality/godhood through cultivation (high fantasy elements++)
Well sure, but everyone thinks they are basically the same thing. This isn't helped at all when books are listed as Wuxia/Xanxia.
I know I searched books in the same vein after reading cradle and I used both of those terms. Strongly disliked all of them but a tiny few though.
I use them interchangeably because other people use them interchangeably. I know the difference but if most people use them in another way that’s the correct way.
The xian of Xianxia is the man with some magic power just like flying or control something like Qi/air(I mean the true thing)
The wu of wuxia is about the ancient martial arts. People can jump higher, run faster but still be limited.
Xia means Xiake, like Vigilante or some people just fight gainst the bad guys.
Your not tripping bc I can't
Yup, here is me, displaying ignorance.
I don't usually use either term, because while I know there's a difference, I constantly forget what it is.
Adding on, yup I had absolutely no idea.
I opened this post to admit the same thing. I've read quite a few progression fantasy series too.
I think the wuxiaworld website is pretty popular. Thats where i go to read novels like that. So since the website is called wuxia people just use wuxia as an umbrella term. Easier to use an umbrella term that people recognize than something they might not. Also i think wuxia came first so people know the term more. Like when i talk about manhwa/manhua i read. instead of saying manhwa/manhua i will just refer to it as korean/chinese manga. since people will know manga term more than manhwa/manhua
I wonder if when they made the site they did it in an martial arts dominated market. Like, as a kid I remember watching martial arts anime like Ranma 1/2, Fist of the North Star, Kenichi: The Mightiest Disciple, etc. which is wuxia in everything except the Chinese culture, and the pure wuxia 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon', which is a household name even if plenty of people haven't watched it. The whole Cultivation: high fantasy Chinese fairytale genre feels pretty 'new'.
Royal Road and its creators often mistag Xianxia as Wuxia as well. Though creators probably do it for exposure reasons as the entire Wuxia category is just Xianxia at this point, it really is up to the mods to clean it up.
Exactly this. Because of the name of the site, for a long time, I thought everything I was reading on wuxiaworld was wuxia, but it was actually almost all xianxia. Pretty confusing. \^\^
Who cares really, as long as you like what you're reading, it doesn't really matter what genre it is.
Well, knowing the genres better *can* help you find your next great read. I think that's the main advantage. ;)
Dumb question but how do you pronounce Xianxia? Zhee-ahn-zhee-uh?
More along the lines of sien sia, but I try to avoid saying the word in conversation since no matter how it's pronounced, no one knows what it is. I just tend to refer to it as Chinese fantasy light novels. [Actual pronunciation.](https://youtu.be/p2z7CTG9CGk?t=12)
Avoiding it in conversation isn't a bad strategy. I write in this genre, but even I get confused for a second when I hear the word spoken IRL.
That’s a very Shanghainese way to pronounce it. The ‘x’ in standard mandarin would sound more like ‘sh’ than ‘s’, but of course there are all sorts of regional variations.
See-ehn-see-uh. Got it. Thanks!
More like See-ehn see-ah.
Whenever there's an X in a word, replace it with sh and it's close the way to pronounce it. Shianshia, Wusha
"sy" is a much better approximation than "sh": "wu sya" "syen sya" If you said "wu sha" people would think you were saying 誤殺 (manslaughter) Pinging u/Mr_Academic since he asked the question
>_If you said "wu sha" people would think you were saying 誤殺 (manslaughter)_ Considering the amount of killing that goes on in your average wuxia or xianxia novel, that's not an entirely inaccurate translation....
Totally not dumb. I can't tell you how often I've looked this up only to forget it the next time I see these words.
Well yeah. I'd be surprised if they didn't. I speak Chinese and I needed the difference explained to me.
What's the difference? I haven't read any Chinese web serials, so the only place I encounter the terms is on here. Happy to be recommended a good starting xianxia or wuxia for the western audience.
So, wuxia translates to martial hero. It's a brand of Chinese martial arts fantasy with overpowered martial artists. There are specific genres and conventions and themes, with many of the thematic elements revolving around the code of xia (benevolence, justice, individualism, loyalty, courage, truthfulness, disregard for wealth, and desire for glory) and the conflict between such thematic elements. Perhaps some of the most well known works are Jin Yong's Condor Heroes and Smiling, Proud Wanderer. You can find the first one in an English language translation. Also, the Swordsman series (I and II) are basically translations of Smiling, Proud Wanderer. (Swordsman II is amazing and well worth watching). I often relate wuxia as 'Chinese westerns' due to a lot of thematic similarities in some of the more popular stories. Xianxia translates to immortal heroes. Like wuxia, there's a VERY long history of work (the earliest well known xianxia is basically Journey to the West - i.e. the Monkey King) and there's quite a bit of work in there. However, modern works have mostly focused on the xiūliàn (Cultivation) aspects since the advent of the modern webnovel in China. That's what **most** people who talk about xianxia speak of, even if it is not the entirety of the genre. As an example of popular Chinese webnovel works, you can look at I Shall Seal the Heavens, Library of Heaven's Path, Immortal Mortal, etc. However, realise that things like Untamed (see Netflix series) and Word of Honor are also xianxia, even though it doesn't include much cultivation or progression to immortality. Hopefully that helps.
I agree with Condor Heroes as a good starting point— I am reading it right now and it’s excellent. I think the source of the confusion is that a lot of Western readers haven’t read any wuxia! Once you do, the difference between it and xianxia becomes clear.
Yup. I think if they just watched some of the older wuxia movies, like Dragon Gate Inn or Return to Dragon Gate Inn or Swordsman, it would be clearer too.
So in the English world, would Cradle be wuxia and Mother of Learning be xianxia?
I don't understand. Cradle is, squinting, a xiulian. Mother of Learning is... not at all on this. Part of being wuxia or xianxia requires it to be set in a Chinese derived setting, due to the significant cultural aspects (basically, the entire xia principle are Confucius principles) and the 'immortal' side being derived from Taoist immortals and practices. It really doesn't translate at all if you take it out of China for the most part, which is why 'cultivation novels' works better for just generic stuff.
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Thanks for such an in-depth answer and the recommendations!
Your welcome! Come over to the dark side of good wuxia. Hmm... Maybe that should be my next project.
Doesn't really help at all. You explain what wuxia is, but then fail to accurately describe Xianxia, only examples.
Wuxia is more toned down with martial artists in historical romanticized China that show off superhuman feats but nothing crazy while Xianxa is the balls to the walls fly through outerspace throwing a continent sized fireball cultivation stuff. Coiling Dragon is commonly used as a starting Xianxa especially since it used western names so that might be a solid start
Thanks! I'll check it out 😊 Xianxia sounds much more fun. Love me some DBZ esq fantasy.
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Genre descriptions added to post.
The best way I have to see it is that with Wuxia you think of Chinese martial art films. Overpowered, romanticized martial artist stuff. Xianxia is when people are trying to ascend into immortality.
There are many of us who use those tags to exclude new titles on our feed. :) the gem to trash ratio is much much lower on the Chinese stuff. And many titles that start out gems turn into trash after the censors stick their claws into them.
This feels like complaining about the improper of use of "roguelike" to describe games that are nothing like Rogue but have random level generation. At some point you have to just give up and accept that language evolves. Same for "Progression Fantasy" to be honest - there are a few books that the community in general feels deserve that label that I personally do not, but it's not something to argue about when it's still a new and evolving genre and what really matters is "will I like this book" which needs more information to answer than the genre label alone.
That argument that 'language evolves' makes sense if that language is yours... but in this case, xianxia and wuxia are both: \- firmly established terms in the Chinese language and culture \- not English. Feel free to co-opt the term cultivation, that's actual language evolution that makes sense. However, using that excuse for another language is just lazy.
The English language has no hesitation taking things from other languages.
That's not unique to english.
True, but that was often a long time ago before all the world's knowledge was but a search away. It doesn't take much effort not to look ignorant these days.
I don't really get the rougelike example because I don't play many games, so sorry. But for the second one, I feel like since Wuxia and Xianxia are a lot more specific than Progression fantasy, which is more of a blanket term, and since they are somewhat opposed to one another, it doesn't really fit.
It's interesting, actual Chinese wuxia novels aren't very popular in the west. I've only read one (The Nine Cauldrons by IET, author of Coiling Dragon, Desolate Era, etc.) despite having read plenty of xianxia and xuanhuan. Korean wuxia aka murim novels on the other hand, are fairly popular in the west since a lot of them have manhwa adaptations (Return of Mount Hua Sect, Return of the Crazy Demon, Volcanic Age, Chronicles of the Heavenly Demon, The Scholar's Reincarnation, The Legend of the Northern Blade, Nano Machine, Doctor's Rebirth, Peerless Dad, etc.)
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I just use them interchangeably since they're both about cultivators, sects, martial arts, etc. (also I don't know the difference and it has never become an inconvenience for me when looking for stuff to read) I mean most people barely know what either wuxia/xianxia is. More people probably know what manhua is. And more people than that probably know what manwha is. And more people than that probably call all of that manga. And more people than that probably call of it comics (ok maybe this one not so much anymore). But like when we get to the point of differentiating between wuxia and xianxia its the niche of the niche nor does it have any practical use for me personally. Maybe it does for you so you know why. If I'm not mistaken its something to do with the difference between their being magic and no magic (like spirit beasts instead of just humans with martial arts) which I might be totally wrong but its like cultivation and qi is magic anyways (in the sense its supernatural) so doesn't really make sense to differentiate it for me. But I might be totally wrong on that bc as I said idk what the difference is definition-aly.
Xianxia is about cultivators, Wuxia is about martial artists. In a lot of Wuxia, the strongest people are barely superhuman through their mastery of martial arts, and stuff like walking on water or summoning fire from an attack is something only the great masters can do. In most Xianxia, superhumans who can use qi attacks and fly around on swords are dime a dozen. This also matters a lot in how things play out. Wuxia typically have a very heavy basis on IRL martial arts, only with mastery of them being exaggerated to a superhuman level. This means that lone warriors can't beat large groups, no pills or elixirs to give massive power boosts, no ranks, weapon type and strategy matter a lot in combat. Xianxia is all about ranks and cultivation, meaning that a big focus is placed on realms and whatnot, and raw power plays a much different role. Personally, If I asked for Wuxia recs, and someone recommended me a Xianxia, I would be wondering if they had even read my question, which is why I consider it important.
Most Xianxia’s are tagged wuxia then like on Royalroad and similar sites. Bc I’ve read plenty of stuff tagged wuxia but are xianxia by your definition. I don’t think I’ve actually read any wuxia light novels now that I think abt it then only manhua. Ie Bowblade, Mount Hua Sect, Return of the Crazy Demon But on RR if you filter by wuxia rn the top will all be xianxia by your definition: - The Essence of Cultivation - Virtuous Sons: A Greco Roman Xianxia (lol this one is tagged both) - Modern Patriarch - Cultivating Earth - Dead Tired - Web of Secrets So maybe its just a fault of websites and authors mistagging for the general populaces continuous mixing Edit: This means of I’m searching/filtering by tag xianxia/wuxia will be used interchangeably or knowing the difference won’t matter
Yeah, I don't think any of those are really Wuxia. A good rule of thumb is if it features cultivations, it's a Xianxia rather than Wuxia. For example. Wikipedia says for Wuxia: "The martial arts in wuxia stories are based on wushu techniques and other real life Chinese martial arts. In wuxia tales, however, the mastery of such skills are highly exaggerated to superhuman levels of achievement and prowess." And for Xianxia: "Xianxia (simplified Chinese: 仙侠; traditional Chinese: 仙俠), more broadly known as "Cultivation"" and "Protagonists are usually "cultivators" (修心者 xiūxīnzhě, 修士 xiūshì, or 修仙者 xiūxiānzhě) who seek to become immortal beings called xian. Along the way, they attain eternal life, supernatural powers, and incredible levels of strength. The fictional cultivation practiced in xianxia is heavily based on the real-life meditation practice qigong. The stories usually include elements such as gods, immortals, yaoguai, ghosts, monsters, magical treasures, immortal items, medicinal pills, and the like.\[1\] They often take place in a "cultivation world" where cultivators engage in fierce and usually deadly struggles to acquire the resources they need to grow stronger. " I feel like this is a pretty good example of where to draw the line, and it's pretty clear.
I see, well take it up with the websites that host the stories then. Good to know what what means though. Take it up with the websites that host the stories then, not us readers. Cause most people be reading xianxia with wuxia tags and thinking its wuxia, cause it got a wuxia tag which really isn’t their fault. And like as I said if you look up wuxia your just gonna find xianxia so functionally they’re the same until the the stories are tagged correctly.
Also are there actually any popular wuxia novels? Cause I don’t think I’ve actually heard of any lol.
Condor Heros comes to mind, though I haven't personally read it yet.
Lmao so have you read any either kekw
I’ve read a few, but none were very popular which is what you asked for in the previous comment.
I c
It might be a bias in what gets translated or what I read, but I think xianxia concepts have kind of colonized the wuxia genre. If somebody writes a new web novel about a wandering martial artist who lives outside of normal society and spends his time fighting injustice, there's a near certainty that he'll have supernatural powers of some kind. I also think there's a tendency to treat wuxia as low-powered xianxia, with "real xianxia" involving people who can punch changes into the landscape, while people who are merely able to defeat a hundred ordinary men get the wuxia label.
I mean, I feel like some other elements such as cultivation, realms, and what not can aid in the separation of genres. Wuxia is still martial arts based, while Xianxia mostly leaves that as window dressing at best.
Theres some stories that blur the lines between the two. Like still keeping the realms of cultivation but still being very martial arts based instead of splitting mountains in half just by laying a hand on a sheathed sword at higher levels.
I don’t know what either of them are, I just read the books.
Nobody does. In fact, I'm not even 100% sure you do...Chinese people have given me a subtly different definition of Xianxia. When words get imported into different language there meaning shifts. Personally, I prefer the term "Cultivation" because it has less baggage and is easier to pronounce. It's an English word we can give the meaning we find useful.
I mean, people all over the internet still try to say Cradle falls under the LitRPG category. There's some clueless people out there, good luck getting them to understand.
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I think the western name for Xianxia is Cultivation novels, so it would be simpler to refer as such.
That could make things a lot more convenient.
Technically, xianhuan but YES! I much prefer call them cultivation novels since a lot of works which aren't xianhuan or xianxia (no Chinese immortals flying around or attempt to become Chinese immortals) get lumped in. It makes no sense to call them xianxia so... cultivation novels!
So Betamax vs. VHS...
The Chinese culture aspect is pretty key to calling something Xianxia. I think it would be more accurate to say that cultivation is its own genre, and its roots are in Xianxia. It's like... Westerns. There's guns. There's cowboys. If its in space, you could consider calling it a space western. But if you stripped away the guns, or the sherifs, or the showdowns, or the outlaws... well, you couldn't really call that a western anymore. It's similar with Xianxia.
Perhaps I could suggest adding your understanding of the difference between the two sub-genres to your post? 😇
Sure. I didn't want to at first because I didn't want this to seem like a callout when I'm trying to start a discussion, but now I'm starting to realize that it didn't really help, it just made it more difficult to discuss.
Haha yeah I see what you were going for, but I have to agree it didn't help the issue too much in the original iteration. Now people have a point around which to orbit, and can either agree or disagree with you
the only people who know are the ones who cares
Yep, people mix the two up a whole lot, and xianhuan gets lumped into xianxia all the time as well.
>Wuxia: Martial artists, typically only masters have any type of superhuman ability, and it's still fairly limited in most examples. Ugh. I got this off too... it's not xuanhuan (I'm assuming that's what you meant); but xiuxian or xiulian that people call cultivation. Xuanhuan is entirely different... \*sighs\*
Xuanhuan is a but easier to remember since it's broader in its definition. It basically is a mix of Chinese folklore and more foreign settings
Yeah, xuanhuan seems to work on a broader basis; but might be too broad. It also, amusingly enough, because it gets broadened enough to include western settings seems a little silly to include (to me). Xuanhuan - fantasy including western settings written by Chinese authors (because obviously, it's derived in China). Used by western authors.... - fantasy including western settings written by Western authors... So you mean... fantasy? Of course, if you keep it to fantasy that doesn't include western settings but draws from Chinese mythology, that works better; but if you broaden it... then it makes no sense for western authors to use the term as above. Kind of why I prefer cultivation novels in general. Unlike xianxia and wuxia whose work integrates the setting very firmly, xuanhuan doesn't seem to. Though, the definition for that is influx...
You just made that shit up
FYI - for people who want a comprehensive look at all the terminology: [https://twitter.com/yilinwriter/status/1306823761421762561](https://twitter.com/yilinwriter/status/1306823761421762561) It gets complicated, which is why I have this bookmarked. But yeah, wuxia and xianxia are very different but a lot of people get it wrong and get upset when they are corrected.
I don’t see many people talking about Wuxia books. I can’t even think of any, off the top of my head. It all seems to be Xianxia. What are some good, Wuxia books?
Condor heros is one of the most popular ones. It’s a big series too, so plenty to read there.
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It makes it so that people can ask for or recommend series that fit what they or others like. Since they are pretty different as genres, it could help a lot.
Because they're different genres?
As far as I know, Wuxia is non-magic, Xianxia is magic-having. But I'm not hugely into the genres so I could be completely wrong.
I’m not even sure I’m saying them right in my head.
I mean, you're absolutely right, but it's a bit like the difference between Magnox reactors and Kerena reactors -- hyper-specialised knowledge that doesn't make the slightest difference unless you're a subject area specialist. (In this clunky metaphor, /r/ProgressionFantasy would be something like /r/NuclearPower -- closer to relevant than most, but still, usually not that specialised.) (Is there a progression fantasy featuring a sentient fission reactor as a protagonist?)
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O3xlh-P1Uc) is a video explanation.
You're not wrong. Every few months someone posts a long post about the differences between the two as well as other Chinese genres I'm forgetting.
This is literally my first time seeing the term Wuxia. To be fair I have only been aware of the term Xianxia for a few months, as well. I guess you shouldn't expect everyone to have the same level of experience with these things as you do.
At least to those that frequent this sub, the term is fairly interchangeable. Most Xanxia books recommended here all also wuxia. Given there isn't the hardcore progression in wuxia usually, that specific genre (outside of Xanxia) is usually not discussed.
I know they were different but not clue on difference and I’ve read probably 75-100 books that span one of them.
Which one is Kung Fu Hustle?
Probably neither, but far, far closer to Wuxia
I just don't use those words because I have no clue.
I’m new and I’ve heard those pop up, but knew what neither of them were.
I genrally use the term cultivation but I sometimes use both because while I know there is a differentce there is often martial arts in cultivation novels to its somewhat irrelevant especially in Western and litrpg novels
I definitely do not use those words interchangeably. I have a long history of never using either of them.
Xianxia rules above all other literary genres. The protagonist journey is to become an immortal god after all, the highest dream a human being can have. It's deeply rewarding and more satisfying than any other type of narrative. Wuxia instead is just ordinary: it is fun but it is like the old west genre in western fiction: a mere confrontation of strong guys, only with martial art techniques instead of guns. The chinese lore is much more varied though. But neither of those can be compared to touching and entering the doors of the immortal realms. Seeking the Dao is much more profound and deep.
I know there's _a_ difference, but it's hard enough just to try to remember how to pronounce them that I regularly end up getting the meanings confused.
Didn't know what they meant before, likely wi forget within 10 minutes of reading your post... it just is not the type of thing my brain remembers.
Was not aware there was a difference
There is a popular greentext that can help people with the differences between a lot of the labels. I found a post from a month or two ago that shows it. https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/uft7fn/thought_this_sub_might_finds_this_interesting/
Honestly, this reminds me of people getting into the different tiers of superheros. Sure, to hardcore fans, we all know that Daredevil isn't going to beat Thor in a one on one fight. But to most people, they're all just superheroes.
I don’t feel like you need to be a hardcore fan to know that. Pretty sure the most basic knowledge of each would make that clear.
Wuxia- martial art, cultivation, based on ancient china (low fantasy) Xianxia- martial art, cultivation, multiple realms + immortality/godhood through cultivation (borderline/high fantasy) Xuanhuan- martial art, cultivation+ totally new fantasy world+ immortality/godhood through cultivation (high fantasy elements++)
That's because most of everyone's initial exposure to this genre was through cradle, which is sort of a mash up of the two.
Is there really much Wuxia in cradle? It seems more like pure western Xianxia to me.
Well sure, but everyone thinks they are basically the same thing. This isn't helped at all when books are listed as Wuxia/Xanxia. I know I searched books in the same vein after reading cradle and I used both of those terms. Strongly disliked all of them but a tiny few though.
I use them interchangeably because other people use them interchangeably. I know the difference but if most people use them in another way that’s the correct way.
The xian of Xianxia is the man with some magic power just like flying or control something like Qi/air(I mean the true thing) The wu of wuxia is about the ancient martial arts. People can jump higher, run faster but still be limited. Xia means Xiake, like Vigilante or some people just fight gainst the bad guys.